If framework fails because other brands realized that building a repairable and extensible laptop is just a flat out good idea, then it wouldn't be a failure.
As long as the bigger companies don't run these repairable models juuust long enough to run the smaller guys out of business, then end support, I'm happy.
That's one way to look at it. But Linus would end up with an investment that turned 225k to 5k or whatever. So not a great success if you look at it that way lol.
Repairability is one thing. What Framework has going for it is the upgradability. The fact that you can upgrade your MOBO (and unlike other brands I've actually seen the upgrade exist, not just promised) was a big decider for me.
Totally agre you can't compare upgrade a motherboard with a new CPU and GPU, or a better battery when tech allow to produce them at laptop cost. To just whe sell you any part you need. But Next Gen one will be the same frame but whe allocate the screws different so you have to upgrade the full laptop cause whe need to sell a new screen, new battery, keyboard, frame, SSD, RAM, wifi card, trackpad, charger, packcage... To be honest, it's way expensive to change screw layout than design a new motherboard with the same layout, but it's all about e-waste.
making the Mainboard upgradable would have other downsides for the Manufaturer, Notebooks get smaller, quieter, more powerfull etc evry Generation, it would slow down inovation to make the Formfactor, Coolingsolution, IO and so on of the Mainboard compatible across Generations. Look at the Framework Notebook compared to a 1040 Elitebook, The HP Notebook is smaller, lighter, quieter, has a bigger battery, much better screen, faster Ram, is convertible, and so on and so on, and its repairable just like the shown 845. Only Downside to the Framework Notebook is the missing SD Card slot, 2.5G Lan Adapter and upgradeable Mainboard. Same goes for Gamingnotebooks, Power requirements and IO requirements for the GPU change evry generation. Making the GPU of a Gamingnotebook upgradeable like back in the Days with MXM Modules would make slim and light Gamingnotebooks impossible, Look at the Asus ProArt Studio there is no way to cramp that RTX6000 GPU into a Notebook from years prior... Upgradeable Mainboards in Notebook dont make much sense and will stay a niche
No, the whole Probook/EliteBook lineup is like that ever since the mid 2000's. And their Compaq EVO an HP Compaq branded predecessors, alongside of the contemporary Dell Latidude-s, IBM Thinkpads, Fujitsu Lifebooks. Framework did not invent the Spanish wax. Their laptop is about upgradable as a Elitebook, their main difference is the open source firmware.
@@Nalianna Do you realize that HP Elitebook- s were always that repairable even before Framework was a thing? There is a big difference between the mass market HP-s you see in Best Buy and the business class HP-s sold to corporations.
@@tyaty Yes, but as a System Admin for the DOJ, they don’t allow us to repair the computers because of their contract and warranty issues. Instead, HP contracts repairs out to TERRIBLE companies that almost always replace components incorrectly. They have also cracked the bottom case of EVERY SINGLE Probook laptop they’ve ever repaired since I started there. I literally watch them every time, and they never fail to crack it. It’s almost comical. HP has sent their own techs twice since I’ve been here, and they were great; however, it doesn’t make up for the dozens of terrible contracted techs I’ve had.
Time is a flat circle when companies like HP _return_ to offer reparability. 2009 was a time in which basically all business laptops came with detailed disassembly guides until they chose the way of the clips & glue... What i'm trying to say is, i hope we stay with reparability this time, and don't resort to the same situation we're in right now in 10 years time.
And it won't be long until they go back to throw it away and replace it. I fear most of these company changes are simply to alleviate pressure to their bottom line. And consumers not replacing whole equipment is bad for the bottom line. Even worse they may put such privilege behind a subscription wall. I'm happy to see the change, but I'm very weary what lies ahead
In 1993ish, I was reviewing vendors PC desktop offerings for a national rollout. We selected HP (over Compaq, IBM, and a couple of others I don't recall) precisely because of their modular design and serviceability. Then they did that whole DEC/Compaq thing and lost their soul. So it tickles my nostalgia to see them rediscovering this part of their corporate ethos!
well, i gotta tell you, you're wrong. I used to work at KPMG, and this laptop line is the one they were using, now this thing have a huge problem with display panel, and it's not cheap replacing one. Ofc they have 2 years quarranty, but alot of machine have the same problem after warranty, so Idk how it will be in the long run.
I do love how Linus is committed to repairability by putting his money where his mouth is and then being open to reviewing other options despite it not being in his financial interest. Shows he actually cares.
Well, I think his biggest asset is STILL his credibility and public image. So even if we were consider him a completely selfish actor, we can trust that he'll do honest reviews as that's the brand he's spent years building.
If you ever watch e-waste youtube video's I can completely understand why Linus cares so much. It's pretty sad to see people throwing away tech like its trash, regardless of its age/functionality.
Also, friendly reminder that this video is *sponsored* and *not a review*. I'm saying this cause you used the word "reviewing" so nobody gets confused.
oh its still very much in his financial interest to do a sponsor video for this. even if it was a normal review it still makes sense. he still gets to disclose (and advertise) for framework. and he gets lots of ad revenue. makes no sense to black ball laptop reviews just so other channels can profit
Pretty sure he is too. But tbh having just watched the Framework Next Level Announcement I am somewhat in doubt it has made a dent :D Framework 16 is amazing. Hopefully the build quality won't suck. And Coreboot soon (TM) but that's a hope that might never come true.
Framework is still ahead, but this is a good effort. HP does deserves a bit praise for doing this, when so many others actively work against repairablity. I still just don't need a laptop, but it's good to see that there is another company out there with machines that aren't just use and toss. I'll definitely be keeping this in mind when people ask what laptop they should buy.
the thing is elitebooks have always been like this, same with latitudes its not a new thing, its just only super popular amongst business machines, which this falls under
I really want a Framework but I watch a lot of video so 3:2 over 16:10 is a hard sell and the number of ports directly on the machine is just too low. They really need a 16:10 option and they need to make two of the USB-C ports natively built into the machine to bring the total port count to 7 so as to not compromise on the card slots. It's my belief that 7 ports including the headphone jack is the sweet spot of connectivity on a laptop. This HP design is actually really tempting but my understanding is that HP stuff for a while has been a subpar brand of cheapness. Has this changed or is it changing?
While i know other channels like LTT and a company like Framework helped to get us to this point of reparability I think we all should be thanking the likes of Louis Rossman for his efforts. Seriously without him doing what he is doing a company like Framework might not even exist.
I wouldn't go as far to say Framework wouldn't exist, but he is one of (if not) the biggest influencers pushing for reparability in all things including, but not limited to, electronic devices and I'm glad HP is starting (and hopefully sticks with this) to move in the right direction while other manufacturers are unwilling to move from their greedy spots. Now I just wish I had the money to buy this laptop along with Frameworks Laptop to show my support in this being the way to go.
Unfortunately Louis Rossmann's recent rhetoric on the subject of repairability (his video "when it's time to give up" and comments he leaves on some of Hugh Jeffries' youtube repairability videos), his message is not as strong as it once was. His change in attitude he says is due to lack of motivation as "people don't care" about repairability. Well recent government policy towards repair suggests otherwise. Perhaps it is a realisation that if products become more easily repairable by everyday consumers without specialist tools, people like Louis will be out of a job.
I'm surprised to see that in-depth set of repair videos from HP. Even somebody who thinks they're just doing it for platitudes has to acknowledge the amount of manpower that goes into that type of production (not to mention the parts sales, manuals, etc). Hopefully it continues because more items trying to compete with the underdog Framework only helps us as buyers
Linus is doing a disservice by promoting philips screws. They are literal trash. They strip too easily. Torx is way better. Just get a torx bit/screw driver, problem solved.
the executives maybe doing it solely for platitudes and virtue signalling, but likely not the engineers and people actually working and putting in effort.
no part are being sold though... it's just a from. part in stock are 0. trying to contact them to ask them to get some part lead to "no technician are currently available"
I used to work in the warehouse that repaired HP laptops when customers would send the unit back under warranty. Just from looking at it, this model is a definite improvement over older HP designs. Glad to see this change over some of the horrible designs I had to take apart.
No this is a good pr move from HP, they always sold these type of repairable laptops in the business lines. It's the consumer lines that are and remain utter dogshit laptops...
Dude. Framework is LATE to the game. Enterprise laptops has had this for decades. It's just retard youtubers that, as always, plays with TOYS. Not enterprise equipment. This is NOT NEW AT ALL.
@@johnkristian it is however a shame its never been marketed towards consumers. Its actually still quite hard to buy a new business class laptop from dell/hp/lenovo
Older hp laptops were actually better then most modern. My sister has a laptop with a second gen i5 and is has a slide lock and you can take off the whole bottom casing without a single screw. You have acces to the ram, cpu heatsink, fan, battery and hard drive within 5 seconds
@Adrian Carlos Enrique Flores Enciso well, competition is good for anyone, but the actual company, so no, apple doesn't need to come around to that, they know that if they got more competition, it would suck for them, it would be great for all of us though
Things like the captive screws were already a thing from their 840 G5 onwards (got lots of them deployed where I work). Daughter boards for all ports is a step forward and also how some Toshiba laptops used to be built last decade.
They did mention that in the video didn't they, I remember them including the image of that stack of HP laptops that is referring back to a previous video.
@@blaynestaleypro You only strip screws that small if you use the wrong size bit or poor quality screws. On smaller screws its easier to strip out torx
HP, Dell and Lenovo do shockingly well in this regard. Service manuals are easily accessible. HP tends to the stick to the same style of screws. Dell and Lenovo use torx and Philips.
A couple of concerns I didn't hear addressed: - How many years out will these parts be available? I couldn't find a battery for an HP only a couple years after its manufacture - Keyboard replacement for spills? - Will they fight you over warranty?
Yes This, i often need to replace a keyboard because a customer bought a laptop with a dutch keyboard while almost nobody uses that. They always want a US int. Also, i think Linus was lying about only needing the screwdriver, to open the back side you need very strong fingers or a plastic thing to force it open. (I think its in a IFixit kit). I tried with a flat screwdriver and got it open but with damage to the plastic. And last, great that you can fix the laptop but after 5 years it's almost useless for all customers at work, the option to upgrade would help.
Keyboard cover assembly is right at the bottom of the tear down, you see Linus holding it with the mainboard attached near the end before he re-assembles. It's a massive oversight of Linus (and his writers) not to mention it, and even bigger one on HP's part to have it that deep since it's the most common thing that needs fixing. HP, at least for the Australian region, seem to be fairly reasonable to deal with for warranty acceptance. That said we have a decent consumer laws as well that HP know they have to comply with. I'm betting HP's stance would vary region to region.
@Rhoanor re opening, while a guitar pick style tool or plastic spatula will help, they generally pop open at the screw end a little and then the cover can be lifted and wriggled open from that point. There are little plastic clips that the cover hinges off on the opposite side to the screws. Trying to open the wrong end, if you're used to doing it on other laptops, makes it harder.
The important part is that never got mentioned for HOW LONG they will supply parts Maybe I didn’t hear it but that is a crucial part of the evaluation… sad that it was not taken into consideration
I know that for the Zbook mobile workstation line, parts will be available for at least 5 years after HP stops selling that model. That generally means around 7 generations (around 7 years) - the Zbook G10s are available now, and my Zbook G3 from 2016 is just reaching end of support. I was able to order a replacement battery around a year ago direct from HP.
As a repair agent, many commercial laptops (not just HP) have actually has been this way for a good while, Lenovo Thinkpads are very easy (at least he the ones I've had to work on). Going back further than that they were actually way better. 8-10 years ago they decided to make some models intentionally difficult to repair it seems (I blame Apple's influence). These days repair manuals can be found easily for most models for Dell, HP and Lenovo without needing some stupid partner login details. Parts can be a different story, they're mostly too expensive (mainboards and display panels can cost nearly as much alone as the original laptop did...)
@@Alaster- Yeah I don't see why this laptop called "reapairable" while my curent and previous laptop (asus and hp but 10 years ago) can be dissasembled about the same like this laptop in the video. The only difference I can see is that I can buy the parts from HP itself insted of buying it from ebay where I always found every replace parts for my previous laptops. And yeah sometimes they were realy expensive, but most of the time reasonable. Screen and cover usually not that expensive, at least for asus. I want to see upgradability in new laptops. If they could be upgradable then the waste would really be reduced. People hardly ever buy used laptops, if I didn't have to throw my laptop in the trash every 4-5-6 years because the casing, display, hdd and sdd would still be usable, I would only have to replace the cpu or gpu and the waste would be significantly reduced.
I just remembered that I also still have a repairable HP laptop laying around, it's from a time when that was "just how things were" 😂 the battery is even attached externally and can be swapped with zero screws getting in the way. Odd how times have changed, but I'm glad to see that they might be changing back slowly in that regard
Had a HP Elitebook 2540P, bought a third party battery online and gave it a new life. Which was nice because although it was a bulky machine, it was beautiful.
The thing I'm curious about is the components on the motherboard. One of the biggest things Louis Rossmann talks about is being blocked on getting a 20 cent component to keep from having to replace the entire motherboard. This seems like a good step, but would have liked to see a thorough review of the entire repairability.
True, but think of the degree of time it would take to literally hit up almost every possible avenue/ provider of components to be able to list that? I think rossman’s level of repair and necessity is that ‘2 steps beyond’ what most hobbyists need. At a consumer level though, what framework and HP are doing should be bear minimum
@@Dezzsoke for one side... The other side is all mounted to the mobo. And the mobo is locked by HP (assuming you want to update it's SN, Part name, part number etc so that your OS recognises it correctly. This not such a big issue for basic consumer, but it's massive for businesses).
well rossman is a reapir guy it is his job to get those parts and replace them and from what he tends to complain about there not usually laptops but macs. that ruffle his feathers
@@MonolithStudiosMelbourneI know it sounds like "bear" but the correct term is "bare minimum". Not being a grammar nazi here. Just thought you may not know and would want to know the correct wording. As for the companies to provide individual components down to the nitty gritty, I agree it's not an easy feat. What they could do instead however could be to provide a link directly to the capacitor source for example so that people could get them from them instead of HP if they so need, rather than HP trying to control every single little thing's availability to consumers. It won't kill them, and on the contrary in my opinion would really strengthen my trust to HP as a brand much more than others.
HP has been the supplier at my agency for a while now.. ( Treasury Department ) Talking 60-100k laptops lol ( only for my branch, this isn't all of the treasury ) Glad to see the newer generation is like this and serviceable. I think we're on G8's but these will end up being there soon. Impressive to see HP take this route and move towards this kind of design.. Honestly gained a good amount of respect for them.
Honestly, this just basically caught up to Dell's typical level of repairability. (I'm an HP, Dell, and Lenovo certified technician and repair dozens of laptops per week)
We use G8s as well, and a flaw I can still see of this G9 is that the keyboard is integrated into the body, so if you have a keycap or something fall out you need to replace the entire bottom chassis of the laptop, which requires taking everything out of the machine. The G5s and 6s had the keyboard as a separate unit to the frame, if they could return to that it would be truly fully repairable in a reasonable fashion
I always appreciated the design of Elitebooks. I daily driven at work one Elitebook 850 G1 (or G2) for four years, next a Zbook 15 G3, also for four years, and now an 855 G8 since two months or so. I loved the fact that you popped the back open and the whole mobo is exposed and you can easily replace HDD/SSD/ RAM, Wireless modules, clean the cooler fans or disassemble the whole cooling assembly to apply new thermal paste if needed... Basically a lot of stuff can be done just by opening the back. Replacing the keyboard was also possible without remove the mobo... Buut... Elitebooks are designed with enterprise and fleet deployment in mind... and they command a premium price... I wish the same repairability is available on their lower end laptops too...
I really, really appreciate this channel's commitment to improving the industry's approach to e-waste and repairability. It feels tremendously sincere and always well thought out.
I agree, I have a few laptops that still have hardware in great condition, but are otherwise unusable due to a single component going out and is outside my scope of reparability due them needing to be soldered and the repair cost is more than the part itself.
@@BenWeinerRVA literally how companies like this make their money. However selling something honestly while trying to improve the industry and give you longer lasting product is a win-win.
I find it is much more common to be considerate of this type of thing here in Canada. We're pretty heavily for good environmentally friendly and sustainability practices here. It's a big part of many of our political parties policies.
I'm pretty sure the $225K investment isn't due to a belief in their financial future, but more due to a belief that what they're doing is good for the industry. It's great that HP is opting for more repairability.
This thing is basically what the dell XPS 15 / Precision 15 once were. A lot of this video reminds me of upgrading my 9570(so far I've changed ram, ssd, wifi Card and battery - all without needing to consult their awesome service manual). Sad dell decided to move away from this(as a Linux user I find the soldered atheros cards the most infuriating)...
Two things that still might be better. 1. TrackPoint like in ThinkPads. It's not for everyone but one can dream. And HP does support it on some models. 2. One USB-C port on each side! Srsly the ability to charge from either side or dock to an eGPU enclosure is enormous!
@@con-f-use I don't see how ambidextrousness isn't a bigger part in laptop design. At the very least the a ability to charge and a USB A on each side, for mouse room
Or even just more ports in general. I love what framework is doing with their swappable dongle/port things and it would be great if other manufacturers did the same.
I just recently picked up a new HP laptop. I saw the HP video with the replacement of every part. Not only is it an official guide, the thing is freaking timestamped for all the fixes. Awesome. I ended up getting an HP due in large part to how well my old HP laptop did. There were problems and at the end it was being held together with duct tape and super glue (like, literally actually using duct tape and super glue), but there was always a way to fix it. Even the problem that I thought was going to force me to get a new laptop was able to get fixed, though not before I found a deal on a new HP that was too good to pass up.
As a previous computer repairman, HPs laptops was already quite repairable 5 years ago. Also their business support was exellent, you could order parts directly.
They need to be, due to the amount of issues with their laptops xD... even the zbook line is subpar compared to the likes of lenovo or dell, both of which are also highly repairable ;)
Not sure why everyone is touting the repairability of Dell and Lenovo. Have you actually disassembled the *newest* ThinkPads and Latitudes? They're not very repairable (especially the ThinkPads).
Thinkpads are also very repairable, and have been since nearly the beginning. There's a webstore where you can order almost literally any part, and if it's not in stock, it'll give you a compatible one. Lenovo has official video tutorials on how to open and repair the laptops. All the screws inside are even marked with which type they should be! And the captive screws are standard on thinkpads
I once asked the customer service for a new battery because it wasn't in stock on their website, they sent me the link of the OEM with the precise model... Except that the OEM doesn't sell to public so good but not perfect
Not so much anymore. For the last ~4 years, the majority of ThinkPad ultrabooks (X1 Carbon, X13, T14s, etc) have had soldered RAM. Most of the Intel ThinkPads also have soldered WiFi - even on laptops that definitely have the space, like the X1 Extreme. I tried buying a replacement for my ThinkPad X240 back in 2019 that was just as repairable, and I ended up going for a Dell Latitude. HP Elitebook was also enticing even at the time, but they were comparatively expensive in Canada. Really happy that 3 years later, we have an option like Framework.
Was coming in to say this. Having worked in IT for over 10 years, I've enjoyed nothing more than servicing the L and T series Thinkpads from Lenovo. Easily the most repairable out of the Big Three by a country mile.
As of recently, I've seen pretty much all new Lenovo laptops, even Thinkpads, have soldered RAM without any unsoldered slots. You have to choose the RAM you want from when you buy it, with no chance to upgrade later on.
I don't own a HP but I would think about them now just for this reason, I have been watching Louis and other people like linus cheer for this for a while. Amazing work
I once got hold of approx. 6 years old laptop for cleaning (I don't really remember the brand, but it was something more premium like an elitebook) and the bottom cover had ZERO screws....At first I really had no idea how to open it and almost decided to pry it open just when I found two sliders on each side for opening....therefore "screwless" notebooks are nothing new...
What about keyboard replacements? Quite crucial if you ask me. That being said, the EliteBook line used to be super easy to repair untill a few years back. Glad to see theyre coming back around on that.
I think keyboard and mobo are the two main things Framework offer that this device doesnt - and I agree completely on the keyboard as it's the most likely to get worn/damaged, or even be the part that most people want to upgrade for cosmetics (blank keycaps/unworn keycaps) the most.
Ease of keyboard replacement and the screwless back panels and batteries were some of my favorite features of the older EliteBooks. The keyboard seems like a big thing to omit.
@@lizziemcdonald1748 I support employees at a large corporation. Keyboards are one of the components that most frequently needs replacement. Spills, pets, accidents, wear and tear...
As someone that used to work repairing HP laptops I must say "OMG how far we've come!" Great work by HP here, this laptop would have made my work so much better 10 years ago
I remember wanting to upgrade my wifi to a wifi card that wasn't even available from HP's line of outdated wifi cards. But HP's BIOS had a whitelist restriction on wifi cards and refused to boot with a NON-HP wifi card installed. So I debugged the BIOS file and altered the whitelist into a blacklist (just by changing one JMP instruction). Essentially, the HP laptop now accepts ONLY NON-HP wifi cards (and refuses to boot if you are using a real HP wifi card).
My prediction: By the time these laptops actually need to be repaired in 5 years, HP will have decided it is not profitable, obsolete it, and deny it's existence.
Yeah that's cool and all, but what about the cheaper models? Imagine being a student, not able to affford a premium device and then getting fcked when trying to replace a battery after 2 Years.
@@XA--pb9ni If I know correctly the 255 notebooks are the cheaper models. I couldnt find the parts readily available on their part surfer page. Usually though the SKU is on a sticker and should be relatively easy to find out by reviews from ifixit and other repair outlets.
I highly doubt this will also mean we’ll get MXM slot GPUs, and CPU slot laptops again. This might just mean the other things are more easily repairable.
@@raresmotoroiu7424 Not really. MXM slots and laptop cpu slots were removed due to that making the device more expensive, and it added to the bulk of the device.
five screws for a bottom plate may seem great but i remember my old Dell laptop with only one captive screw. It was a slide-off bottom plate and once you removed the one screw, the whole internal circuitry was accessible. It was much more convenient than anything i have ever used.
I had a keyboard die on a HP Omen 15 laptop, and the new part is ~200U-300SD if not more and is integrated with the chassis. From what I see the same is the case with the reviewed HP Elitebook 840 G9. The Framework laptop on the other hand has a 50USD replaceable keyboard. So for anyone heavily using the keyboard, the Framework laptop seems like a better option. I wish the video covered the keyboard in more detail.
Yeah if the keyboard is not replacable or expensive, it kinda misses the point. Keyboard is something that is replaced most often in a notebook. But that are sponsored videos for you, the bad is never mentioned .....
Some of those parts are so expensive. $563.27 for a replacement LCD panel? $147 for an LCD "support kit" (which i suppose means a bracket), $169.27 for the LCD ribbon cable, $465 for the webcam module, $267.41 for a lid without the LCD, $227.58 for a replacement keyboard panel, $438.10 for a 512GB SSD... etc. Last time I bought a genuine 17" 1080p LCD panel from Samsung's UK service centre it was £120 (about $150).
A massive improvement for sure, but the Framework is still more repairable or at least easier to repair. Kudos to HP but still a little more to go before I'd say it's mission accomplished. Of particular note, while the trackpad is relatively easy to replace, the keyboard is not. You have to remove every component to replace the keyboard including system board, you don't need to do that on the Framework. Keyboard is definitely one of the parts more likely to be replaced so this is definitely an area HP can improve. Also of note, their RUclips channel does not really show explicitly how to swap the keyboard, I'd like to see it bc I recently had to swap a keyboard on a Lenovo X1 7th Gen, using a donor laptop. It's 140 or so screws that hold in the keyboard. Not even joking. Multiply that by two since I had to pull it from a parts donor laptop. So curious to see how many screws this keyboard takes. I'm about to begin another round of evaluations for new laptops for my company and repairability is high on the list. The Framework loses points for me and my company because it's not widescreen. Overall, Kudos to HP for these changes, and as others have said if Framework pushes other manufactures to make their crap more repairable it's not a failure. Certainly this HP has put itself on my short list of potential options.
The keyboard is part of the top cover assembly. It comes as a whole unit. You "can" remove the keyboard from this, but it's a nightmare - screws, sticky tape etc. And yep, everything is attached to the top cover assembly, so it's a crap job. No idea why HP (and others) do this, since it's so easy to have everything mounted to a base cover and have the keyboard cover easily removed 1st.
Or I could get a Raspberry Pi, and then I can even repair the individual chips. Of course, working on a Raspberry Pi every day will cost you a tonne of time every day, due to how slow it is. Same thing here. Yeah, they keyboard might take 20 more minutes to replace, but you only have to do that maybe once every 5 years. The Framework, on the other hand, will cost you a little bit of time every single day, due to its small screen, its slower CPU, and its Intel GPU.
It doesn’t, at least not for HP. My old HP laptop (AMD HD4000-era) had a 100 page service manual walking through the replacement of any component. The design was awful with a lot of steps, but they do provide the spare parts and documentation for a long time
The thing is, this is basically already what hp business class laptops look like with a slight bit more sauce on it. The real issue is that all cheap HP laptops, and there are lots, are absolutely horrible plastic things not made to repair at all.
Honestly: Its not true. HP had those models for a while now. Plus in the more premium segment you were always able to get the parts from HP for years. This is nothing new. Also soldered RAM, i.e. LPDDR4/5 actually has advantages in notebooks so I really do not know why you would hype the upgradable RAM.
I think the big caveat is that years down the line they might stop selling replacement parts, so even if its easily replacable you might not be able to find oem or even third party parts considering the number of different parts hp has. I ran into this a while back trying to replace my less than 5 year old hp laptop
@@alexmills1329 @PackCracker66 The battery is guaranteed to wear out eventually, usually before anything else fails if the build quality is good and you're gentle with your devices. And batteries can't be salvaged, can't be bought on eBay because of counterfeits, and ideally should be newly-manufactured because they slowly degrade just sitting on a shelf.
@@alexmills1329 idk how popular my old hp envy was but after I could not find the exact model number I did try purchasing replacement keyboards which seemed like it would fit but was just barely too big. I tried contacting support and they confirmed it was no longer being stocked and adviced me to upgrade. I dont doubt that you could find replacements for popular models, but if this laptop gets buried below the other models (cause the vast majority of laptop owners probably dont care about repairability) I doubt that hp will continue stocking parts. Though the cynic in me thinks that they might be using planned obsolescence to force upgrades as I really doubt that keyboard designs should change that much.
I got my FrameWork just a couple of weeks ago. If the company can keep wrinkling out some of the "minor" issues that keep cropping up for customers, I'd be happy to see them move right into the ranks of the other laptop manufacturers
I just got mine over the weekend and am over the moon with it so far. I did go out of my way and pick up a ssd & ram kit rather than their offering at framework (32 gb for a better price and same performance... yes please) for the ssd thou it's nothing on framework it's more me... I've had bad blood with Western Digital and cant forgive them just yet. Just wish for XMP support and maybe second m.2 slot would be neat but I feel if framework is in it for the long haul... they need amd version and possibly a 15-17 in with gpu.
@@mrhomer57 That's literally all I'm waiting on is for them to release a larger laptop with a GPU and I'm all in but until then I just can't cause I hate small laptops and I game on my laptop enough for a GPU to be important.
@@theninjamaster67 I was there too.... but then I got a steam deck and rarely used my laptop for gaming anymore. And since my old Asus wasn't getting any younger figured I would recoup some cash cleaning it up and flipping it to someone looking for a stronger laptop on the cheap. Don't get me wrong I still rock a desktop so gaming isn't only steam deck but for a travel laptop to do odds and ends (maybe pick up python as a new hobby) it's a great little machine.
@@mrhomer57 Eh if I was gonna get something more portable for gaming I'd get the GPD Win 4 cause it'll actually fit in your pocket Steam Deck is nice cause it's cheap and will help push forward gaming on Linux but it's by no means a laptop replacement or handheld replacement for that matter IMO.
I still agree with the Louis Rossmann video on this, almost all of the replacement parts on the hp website are out of stock. Making a laptop easier to open and repair is a step in the right direction for HP, if you can't get any parts to repair it with, then it isn't very repairable.
This is amazing to see! I stil remember my HP that needed too many screens to open (and some where hidden behind the keyboard) which I found out too late (the fan and the keyboard was screwed). Hope more manufactures follow suit!
I've been in laptop repairs for 8 years and this is basically the same as fixing a normal laptop these days. The only extra thing here is it's slightly easier to buy the parts.
Yeah, the parts availability is what looks different to me. I was repairing Dell Ultrabooks back in 19 and there was no problem servicing them, but getting the parts outside of dells network was what would be the problem with repairability. They even made screws mostly all the same size, so gone are the days of keeping close track of long and short screws.
I agree with you too there. Main thing will be parts availability and unfortunately we can tell only after couple of years if HP keeps inventory. I still have couple of smartphones with removable batteries but no batteries are available. I don't know if power ports and the rest of I/O ports are replaceable, but Framework modular design is better in my opinion, allowing for I/O upgrades in the future keeping the same laptop/chassis out of the landfill.
my old laptop was a HP 650 G1 Probook (i think probook) from around 2014 and you can swap out the battery and ram completely tool-less. im glad that at least some principles still remain
I think Framework still has a place in the market, with the user changeable IO and literally full customablity. Its amazing HP has made this effort, we should hope we can expect this from more people.
On the surface, this looks really good. Lets give it a year or two and see if parts remain available to fix last years (or last last years) model. Repairability is one thing, long-term availability of the parts to do so will be the hill upon which this dies.
Tbh, as a pc repairman, idk if I want more easy repairs more than I want more open source software. Either way. This is good. More like this please other OEMs
Of course you wouldn't want easier repairs since it would make basic things like a replacing a battery more than doable by someone who isn`t a pc repairman guydude** tis joke
We need more repairable, modular laptops. Im excited to see a day where you build them from the ground up yourself like a desktop. Laptop chassis form factor standards.
That is not going to happen. Form factor standards in such a densly packed device would be either a huge waste of space or out of date after 2 years. We absolutely should demand repairablility and spare parts, but I'm fine with that being device specific for some components.
@@jimhalpert9421 You would also need to figure out cooling for devices like that. You’d need to buy a chassis and heat sink that can adequately cool it. Or the regular chassis would be huge.
@@jimhalpert9421 Im okay with it being device specific too. But eventually it isnt farfetched to have industry standard laptop cooling, chassis, motherboard etc. You would just need enough brands on board with manufacturing them. Every computer is "out of date" after 2 years based on that line of thought. And i believe it is the exact opposite of a waste of space. Thanks for your professional guarantee, but i beg to differ.
@@official_pol2198 Peltier coolers exist and if used the right way, could take small form factor cooling really far. just saying. 10-15 years from now its not a stretch to say its possible. If i could build my own laptop, just like a desktop, I would do it before i bought a pre built any day.
One of the things that kept me in the past from working with laptops was the cumbersome process of disassembling them to reach just one component, and when one component busted, it usually took something else with it.
Fully loaded for just shy of $3,000 😅 it’s cool that they offer FreeDOS as an option, otherwise every upgrade is insanely expensive. Hopefully time levels out the cost because user-repairable/upgradable laptops is a fantastic idea!
My hp laptop is 3 years old, it has a ryzen 3500 and i really like it, it just needed an upgrade which i did today, extra ram and 1tb nvme ssd, what made me frustrated was the screws that were unnecessarily under the masive rubber feet, that i had to rip out to get to the screws! Glad to see they changed that for this product!
I think I agree there, although I'm finding with my Framework that there's more overall support for 16:9/16:10 instead and I have to use a weird resolution to get things to appear at a reasonable size on my 13" display
I had to check the date on this video. This looks like Elitebooks i repaired back in 2015, in fact older ones were tool-less to open the rear panel. I don't think Linus ever saw a midrange business laptop. They have also ALWAYS provided several hundred page "service manuals" free to download on the website without any account. The older Mobile Workstations (ZBooks) were also very easy to repair.
Before even getting a minute in to this video, I will agree on the reparability of HP business notebooks, and more recently engineering laptops (their Z-series starting with the G3 models). I actually ENJOY fixing them. You can replace nearly any major component in under and hour, and most in 30 minutes or less, with a little experience.
While it wasn't promoted like they are now, my Elitebook 850 G3 is almost as easy to work on. While I haven't taken a whole lot out, the internal battery is more easily removed than the computer you look at here. Remove the bottom, undo 2 screws and remove the battery. I did have to replace the keyboard and that was very easy, after opening up and removing the battery, just remove either 2 or 4 screws (can't remember) and pop out the keyboard from the outside and unplug a couple ribbon cables. RAM super easy, and it has a SATA and an M.2 slot.
As someone who had an old HP that was mindbogglingly stupid to JUST open and clean the coolers, this may be a good sign to reverse my old "never buy hp again" policy.
I tried to disassemble my old alienware 15 R2, and once I took it all down and cleaned it, I literally could not put it back together. It made me sick to my stomach looking at all the cords and wires that go through little loops and holes and squares all over, how intricately it was designed like building a labyrinth. I ultimately gave up, and was actually upset because I've repaired countless handhelds, consoles, and pc's effectively and correctly without a hitch. I really hope laptops of tomorrow are dumbed down in terms of reparability.
Kudos to HP. I used to have an old 8760w elitbook where you could remove the whole bottom cover in one literal second by pulling two slidelock tabs. Any company that takes the opposite approach as Apple (glue, adhesive and other anti repair initiatives) has my support and loyalty.
now lets see how long this lasts. With HPs track record? I give about 2-4 years before all the replacement parts are all 'mysteriously' out of stock permanently making this just a PR stunt. Prove me wrong HP, keep the machine supported for more than 12 years and I'll consider it a genuine try at this part of the market - for now tentative and the framework is, honestly, just better anyway but it's a good start. 1 odd thing though; why have a physical blocker for the main camera...but not the IR camera? The IR camera is arguably *much* more of a tempting target so why not block that physically too? Nice touch, hope more companies add this as a standard to laptops, but unless it blocks *all* cameras it's utterly useless lol.
Unless it's a gaming PC. I guess that would be too much UEFI and power plan hassle to support (affects cost). Also probably more than 10% extra overall thickness, that's actually a lot. Edit: Did even Framework have this opportunity? I don't remember anymore.
Socketed CPUs don't make a ton of sense for laptops considering due to the fact that you will need to upgrade the chipset and potentially cooling and power delivery anyway. Not to mention we would have to get all the CPU and GPU vendors onboard with it.
My old HP Envy 4 was very highly repairable and lasted me 6 years before I repaired it again to give it to my then-girlfriend, who I think probably still uses it. I don't know what the surprise is here. HP already had decent repairability back in the days. (the laptop - or ultrabook, as it was called then - was bought in 2013)
Given that Framework still isn't offering any Ryzen builds and doesn't seem to have any timeframe on if and when that is even planned, this is an excellent alternative to all of us that were opting for a Ryzen build. The battery life compared to ASUS Zenbooks is a bit lackluster though. Having a 67 or even 70+ wH battery with such a setup would be nice.
I'm wish I had more disposable income to actually buy this and the framework just to show support for those products. I love the fact that HP jumped into the repairability bandwagon
the one problem some older EliteBook's (only as old as two to three years ago) have had are battery expansion problems, with as many as 14 showing problems in my small 100 person branch office, so much so that the whole company is now almost full over to ThinkPads to replace them.
Battery is replaceable. Just did my 840 g5 for 30$ on Amazon and it included necessary tools. Expansion was so bad Case wouldn't seal! but if your company only supports OEM, HP stopped producing this battery. ThinkPad is a great alternative.
@@raceofrobots9152 the batteries had already warped the frame, panels and keyboard, plus they were leased computers so we did not have the authority to do any hardware repair. Leased computers and business without an in-house/local IT is why I am more critical of big OEMs and any hardware, and more so, safety problems they might have.
I recently picked up a pretty low cost HP Pavilion and was extremely happy with how easy it was to open and replace near everything inside, including upgrading the RAM by just popping a module in. It's very good to see. Glad to see this review, hope this catches on and continues.
Yeah, HP has secretly had a bunch of repairable laptops for a while now in the pavillion series (AMD versions)... You wouldn't be able to tell from the AD copy though, since most of them say they don't support "Upgradeable RAM". However, if you dig for the repair guide it will clearly show that the RAM is in fact socketed.
Great to see. This should be a commonality between all of HP's product line though, ESPECIALLY for everything going forward. I'm not *wowed* by the ease of disassembly as much as I was with the framework. Things like a magnetic bezel are pretty great, but this is what I'd consider an acceptable bare minimum. Obviously the biggest thing here is that you can actually buy replacement parts (for now).
That "for now" being important. Motorola had a page of parts for my phone linked from the iFixit page but once the mower hit the screen that parts page was gone.
Exactly. The difference is that I trust Framework to keep maintaining their line of repairable laptops, assuming they are around. I don't trust HP or Dell to be supporting their line with upgrade components and repair parts in five years. Hopefully they are.
Excited about this but immediately got disappointed by the configuration options in Europe (Netherlands). Compared to the US it's basically non-existent. Wonder if that will change in time...
Already watched on Floatplane. Watching again so HP and FW see the engagement! I was debating between an HP and Lenovo, and this just tipped the scales to HP.
Both offer the same amount of repeatability depending on the model. Not to knock on HP but I don't see anything special here that a corporate laptop hasn't already been doing for the past number of years.
I'm glad to see hp is getting back into repairability, because I have an HP G42 that's so old it's basically useless, but that thing was so easy to take apart and even upgrade, it had a cpu socket and I did upgrade it a few time actually, for dual, to tri, finally to quad core before it finally was gpu limited which was sadly bga so I couldn't upgrade it even if there was some available
Such a good video! I really like to see other big brands like HP joining to the reparability movement. It is only matter of time that also become upgradeable. Live long Framework, you have shown the path
The elitebook series and probook series where always more open and easier to repair/replace. The pavillion series, now those were hard to open and service. These solutions like framework(minus the modular ports) and other brands that keep on bragging about repairability are just funny for someone that knows every laptop was like this back in the day.
So that HP has finally caught up to the other professional laptops. I recently had to work on a brand new Thinkpad t15 gen 2. The display comes out with a few clips, 4 screws , and a ribbon cable. The keyboard is even less. All parts are available and repair guides are provided by Lenovo. Pro level laptops have been like this for as long as I can remember.
I have an Elitebook 840 G1, given to me as a discarded enterprise laptop. While it's thick and plasticky, it's an absolute dream to open up. Zero screws to access the battery, zero screws to access the RAM, four screws to access the SATA drive. Enterprise laptops tend to be way better than consumer laptops in the repairability department, so it's no surprise that the G9 is still pretty good on that front.
Are board schematics available for independent repair shops or individual buyers? It is great that so many components are available but what if a chip soldered on the motherboard needs to be swapped with a new one? Can an independent repair shop buy the chip or do they have to swap the whole motherboard? And how is this laptops Linux support?
I was about to ask the same thing, Frameworks said they were going to do it, I'm not sure if they did. I want to see what see what Louis Rossmann has to say about it. #fighttorepair
I finally cracked my XT2041DL screen a few days ago. I quickly learned of how repair places make the money. They make it so expensive to the point where you might as well get a newer phone and they sell it themselves... I'm sorry what? Sell it MYSELF is what I would've done. I'm keepin my awesome phone and requested a screen protector. Two unfortunate things happened: 1 Poly carbonate screen protector causes this rainbow particle effect, 2 the speakers now sound almost distorted on certain volumes/frequencies. I'm gonna ask about that cause only the screen broke, what would they have done to the perfectly good speakers?
I've always hated working on HP devices. The two newer HP laptops I had to fix for family members was so easy to fix. Also HP support will give you part numbers no questions asked even if they don't sell the parts themselves and out of warranty. I still wouldn't personally buy a HP product however I'm so happy they are going in this direction and I hope they continue.
I happen to have an Elitebook 845 g10 with Ryzen as a working machine for a year now and I absolutely love it. I got 1x16gb of RAM though, and realized it's too small in a week, so went to the nearest PC shop and got another 16gb so-dimm stick which was just recognized by the system with no performance penalty. So I got a very meaningful upgrade for my HP elitebook in the first days of it's ownership which I could perform myself and really love it. And another extremely nice thing I do appreciate in it, is Linux support, as I had 0 troubles with any onboard devices and clean Ubuntu installation. Especially in contrast to my previous dell XPS 13, which I struggled with for the whole time I had to use it...
Massive respect to Linus for walking the walk on giving a really fair review to this product. He said that he wouldn't let his Framework affiliation tamper with his reviews, and this is a great first step to proving that.
This isn’t a review, this is a ‘showcase’; the distinction is that showcases are sponsored and include talking points the sponsor asked to include, while reviews do not. However, Linus makes a point to be honest in both types, so showcases are still trustable even if they are by nature less critical of the product.
My company had HP laptops back in 2012 2013 that had very similar repair ability. We had about 6000 of them deployed and they were so easy to work on. Loved those laptops.
Typing this on an easily repairable HP HDX 9000, I'm glad to see HP going the right direction again, and not the way of Apple and the other big brands. They prove that its not necessary to make everything propritary. Lets hope they can do the same to their prebuilts, especially the gaming line.
It's really great that HP went to that length to make their laptop repairable, and I really hope that it keeps going in that direction. Next, it would be great for them to work on their Linux support.
This is great. I have Framework listed as a replacement to my gaming laptop should they get a high performance or gaming model. Now that HP has entered the market, I will also be keeping an eye on them too, however I'd stick with Framework out of principal if I can get away with it.
@@KJ4EZJ ideally for me I'd go for a 15 with tenkey. but with how small those chassis are getting I don't know if that's possible lol. Then again some 17's are like a thick bezelled 15 nowadays so we'll see
If framework fails because other brands realized that building a repairable and extensible laptop is just a flat out good idea, then it wouldn't be a failure.
It'd be more like failing successfully. The more companies changing up the status quo, the better.
As long as the bigger companies don't run these repairable models juuust long enough to run the smaller guys out of business, then end support, I'm happy.
Unless they just do it long enough to put Framework out of business, then go back to the status quo.
I mean they're a business at the end of the day, should they end up getting pushed out by competitors, that is failing.
That's one way to look at it. But Linus would end up with an investment that turned 225k to 5k or whatever. So not a great success if you look at it that way lol.
Repairability is one thing. What Framework has going for it is the upgradability. The fact that you can upgrade your MOBO (and unlike other brands I've actually seen the upgrade exist, not just promised) was a big decider for me.
Totally agre you can't compare upgrade a motherboard with a new CPU and GPU, or a better battery when tech allow to produce them at laptop cost.
To just whe sell you any part you need. But Next Gen one will be the same frame but whe allocate the screws different so you have to upgrade the full laptop cause whe need to sell a new screen, new battery, keyboard, frame, SSD, RAM, wifi card, trackpad, charger, packcage...
To be honest, it's way expensive to change screw layout than design a new motherboard with the same layout, but it's all about e-waste.
And upgrade your screen which I didn't hear Linus even mention being removable for the HP.
@@2moke2creen I did hear that, seems that the display assembly just uses clips
making the Mainboard upgradable would have other downsides for the Manufaturer, Notebooks get smaller, quieter, more powerfull etc evry Generation, it would slow down inovation to make the Formfactor, Coolingsolution, IO and so on of the Mainboard compatible across Generations. Look at the Framework Notebook compared to a 1040 Elitebook, The HP Notebook is smaller, lighter, quieter, has a bigger battery, much better screen, faster Ram, is convertible, and so on and so on, and its repairable just like the shown 845. Only Downside to the Framework Notebook is the missing SD Card slot, 2.5G Lan Adapter and upgradeable Mainboard.
Same goes for Gamingnotebooks, Power requirements and IO requirements for the GPU change evry generation. Making the GPU of a Gamingnotebook upgradeable like back in the Days with MXM Modules would make slim and light Gamingnotebooks impossible, Look at the Asus ProArt Studio there is no way to cramp that RTX6000 GPU into a Notebook from years prior... Upgradeable Mainboards in Notebook dont make much sense and will stay a niche
@@vocassen clips and some glue
Massive props to HP for this. I just hope it isn't a one off.
No, the whole Probook/EliteBook lineup is like that ever since the mid 2000's. And their Compaq EVO an HP Compaq branded predecessors, alongside of the contemporary Dell Latidude-s, IBM Thinkpads, Fujitsu Lifebooks.
Framework did not invent the Spanish wax. Their laptop is about upgradable as a Elitebook, their main difference is the open source firmware.
It'll continue til framework folds. then HP will stop caring again.
@@Nalianna Do you realize that HP Elitebook- s were always that repairable even before Framework was a thing?
There is a big difference between the mass market HP-s you see in Best Buy and the business class HP-s sold to corporations.
@@tyaty Yes, but as a System Admin for the DOJ, they don’t allow us to repair the computers because of their contract and warranty issues.
Instead, HP contracts repairs out to TERRIBLE companies that almost always replace components incorrectly. They have also cracked the bottom case of EVERY SINGLE Probook laptop they’ve ever repaired since I started there. I literally watch them every time, and they never fail to crack it. It’s almost comical.
HP has sent their own techs twice since I’ve been here, and they were great; however, it doesn’t make up for the dozens of terrible contracted techs I’ve had.
Schematics or nothing. Everything else is BS
You ever just refresh RUclips and see a video posted 8 seconds ago? Me neither. Neat.
Damn...I only saw it at a minute ago
For me it sadly just is 2minutes ago
48 seconds
4min here
83 seconds for me. (added it to the queue). Rarely see uploads as they happen.
Time is a flat circle when companies like HP _return_ to offer reparability.
2009 was a time in which basically all business laptops came with detailed disassembly guides until they chose the way of the clips & glue...
What i'm trying to say is, i hope we stay with reparability this time, and don't resort to the same situation we're in right now in 10 years time.
Like you said, time is a flat circle. They'll resort to it again. I just hope we still have options by then.
Yeah I even upgraded the cpu of my old 2009 laptop a few years ago. It took almost 0 effort. Nowadays everything has to be soldered.
@@rodryguezzz I remember swapping the cpu from celeron to pentium and 2gb of ram in my old xp gateway laptop
And it won't be long until they go back to throw it away and replace it. I fear most of these company changes are simply to alleviate pressure to their bottom line. And consumers not replacing whole equipment is bad for the bottom line. Even worse they may put such privilege behind a subscription wall. I'm happy to see the change, but I'm very weary what lies ahead
lol apple happened
In 1993ish, I was reviewing vendors PC desktop offerings for a national rollout. We selected HP (over Compaq, IBM, and a couple of others I don't recall) precisely because of their modular design and serviceability. Then they did that whole DEC/Compaq thing and lost their soul. So it tickles my nostalgia to see them rediscovering this part of their corporate ethos!
well, i gotta tell you, you're wrong. I used to work at KPMG, and this laptop line is the one they were using, now this thing have a huge problem with display panel, and it's not cheap replacing one. Ofc they have 2 years quarranty, but alot of machine have the same problem after warranty, so Idk how it will be in the long run.
I do love how Linus is committed to repairability by putting his money where his mouth is and then being open to reviewing other options despite it not being in his financial interest. Shows he actually cares.
Well, I think his biggest asset is STILL his credibility and public image. So even if we were consider him a completely selfish actor, we can trust that he'll do honest reviews as that's the brand he's spent years building.
If you ever watch e-waste youtube video's I can completely understand why Linus cares so much. It's pretty sad to see people throwing away tech like its trash, regardless of its age/functionality.
...about money
Also, friendly reminder that this video is *sponsored* and *not a review*. I'm saying this cause you used the word "reviewing" so nobody gets confused.
oh its still very much in his financial interest to do a sponsor video for this. even if it was a normal review it still makes sense. he still gets to disclose (and advertise) for framework. and he gets lots of ad revenue. makes no sense to black ball laptop reviews just so other channels can profit
Hopefully this repairability continues to catch on
Framework and Steam Deck, now HP
And then apple joins in with the world's first user repairable laptop ever in the world.
@@utfigyii5987 XD
@@utfigyii5987 haha yeah I'd almost be willing to bet
@@utfigyii5987 And then Jesus Christ rises with Optimus Prime by his side.
If your investment falls apart because other manufacturers suddenly care about repairability then that's a sacrifice I'm willing to make.
Pretty sure he is too. But tbh having just watched the Framework Next Level Announcement I am somewhat in doubt it has made a dent :D Framework 16 is amazing. Hopefully the build quality won't suck. And Coreboot soon (TM) but that's a hope that might never come true.
Framework is still ahead, but this is a good effort. HP does deserves a bit praise for doing this, when so many others actively work against repairablity. I still just don't need a laptop, but it's good to see that there is another company out there with machines that aren't just use and toss. I'll definitely be keeping this in mind when people ask what laptop they should buy.
the thing is elitebooks have always been like this, same with latitudes
its not a new thing, its just only super popular amongst business machines, which this falls under
EliteBooks were always like this. My 845 G8 is the same.
I really want a Framework but I watch a lot of video so 3:2 over 16:10 is a hard sell and the number of ports directly on the machine is just too low. They really need a 16:10 option and they need to make two of the USB-C ports natively built into the machine to bring the total port count to 7 so as to not compromise on the card slots. It's my belief that 7 ports including the headphone jack is the sweet spot of connectivity on a laptop.
This HP design is actually really tempting but my understanding is that HP stuff for a while has been a subpar brand of cheapness. Has this changed or is it changing?
@@ky5666 "HP stuff for a while has been a subpar brand of cheapness." absolute nonsense
@@ky5666 Unless you're going to to use them all at once, you can buy the extra ports you need and just swap out the ports when you need them.
While i know other channels like LTT and a company like Framework helped to get us to this point of reparability I think we all should be thanking the likes of Louis Rossman for his efforts. Seriously without him doing what he is doing a company like Framework might not even exist.
I wouldn't go as far to say Framework wouldn't exist, but he is one of (if not) the biggest influencers pushing for reparability in all things including, but not limited to, electronic devices and I'm glad HP is starting (and hopefully sticks with this) to move in the right direction while other manufacturers are unwilling to move from their greedy spots. Now I just wish I had the money to buy this laptop along with Frameworks Laptop to show my support in this being the way to go.
Wasn't that Kanyes invention? (aaaand I'll let myself out)
@@rogerbayless Legal warrior and rhetoric action . i agree he would be the biggest proponent for reparability.
Unfortunately Louis Rossmann's recent rhetoric on the subject of repairability (his video "when it's time to give up" and comments he leaves on some of Hugh Jeffries' youtube repairability videos), his message is not as strong as it once was. His change in attitude he says is due to lack of motivation as "people don't care" about repairability. Well recent government policy towards repair suggests otherwise. Perhaps it is a realisation that if products become more easily repairable by everyday consumers without specialist tools, people like Louis will be out of a job.
I'm surprised to see that in-depth set of repair videos from HP. Even somebody who thinks they're just doing it for platitudes has to acknowledge the amount of manpower that goes into that type of production (not to mention the parts sales, manuals, etc). Hopefully it continues because more items trying to compete with the underdog Framework only helps us as buyers
They’ve actually had those videos for a long time. Years ago I upgraded an ssd in my $1000 gaming laptop with one of those HP made guides
Linus is doing a disservice by promoting philips screws. They are literal trash. They strip too easily. Torx is way better. Just get a torx bit/screw driver, problem solved.
the executives maybe doing it solely for platitudes and virtue signalling, but likely not the engineers and people actually working and putting in effort.
@@blaynestaleypro Phillips is a easier thing for people to reach for; everyone had one in their homes
no part are being sold though... it's just a from. part in stock are 0. trying to contact them to ask them to get some part lead to "no technician are currently available"
I used to work in the warehouse that repaired HP laptops when customers would send the unit back under warranty. Just from looking at it, this model is a definite improvement over older HP designs. Glad to see this change over some of the horrible designs I had to take apart.
I had to change the keyboard on my pavillion laptop, it was a nightmare
No this is a good pr move from HP, they always sold these type of repairable laptops in the business lines. It's the consumer lines that are and remain utter dogshit laptops...
Dude. Framework is LATE to the game. Enterprise laptops has had this for decades. It's just retard youtubers that, as always, plays with TOYS. Not enterprise equipment. This is NOT NEW AT ALL.
@@johnkristian it is however a shame its never been marketed towards consumers. Its actually still quite hard to buy a new business class laptop from dell/hp/lenovo
Older hp laptops were actually better then most modern. My sister has a laptop with a second gen i5 and is has a slide lock and you can take off the whole bottom casing without a single screw. You have acces to the ram, cpu heatsink, fan, battery and hard drive within 5 seconds
Framework seems to be all out on the repair thing, really hope it works out with other brands as well.
Well Linus does always say he wants competition lol
@Adrian Carlos Enrique Flores Enciso well, competition is good for anyone, but the actual company, so no, apple doesn't need to come around to that, they know that if they got more competition, it would suck for them, it would be great for all of us though
Things like the captive screws were already a thing from their 840 G5 onwards (got lots of them deployed where I work). Daughter boards for all ports is a step forward and also how some Toshiba laptops used to be built last decade.
They did mention that in the video didn't they, I remember them including the image of that stack of HP laptops that is referring back to a previous video.
philips screws are trash. They strip easily. My old macbook pro has philips that are nearly all stripped. Torx is much better.
@@blaynestaleypro You only strip screws that small if you use the wrong size bit or poor quality screws. On smaller screws its easier to strip out torx
@@Darksteel165 nope. torx is better all the time. Every time.
I’m genuinely really impressed that hp is making an effort, I couldn’t imagine dell doing such a thing.
Why make it repairable when you can up sell a warranty :)
HP, Dell and Lenovo do shockingly well in this regard. Service manuals are easily accessible. HP tends to the stick to the same style of screws. Dell and Lenovo use torx and Philips.
@@beeeennnnnnn big brain
Too bad HP products are too bad to be worth the hassle of buying let alone repairing them
dell? they are very repairable
A couple of concerns I didn't hear addressed:
- How many years out will these parts be available? I couldn't find a battery for an HP only a couple years after its manufacture
- Keyboard replacement for spills?
- Will they fight you over warranty?
Yes This, i often need to replace a keyboard because a customer bought a laptop with a dutch keyboard while almost nobody uses that. They always want a US int.
Also, i think Linus was lying about only needing the screwdriver, to open the back side you need very strong fingers or a plastic thing to force it open. (I think its in a IFixit kit). I tried with a flat screwdriver and got it open but with damage to the plastic.
And last, great that you can fix the laptop but after 5 years it's almost useless for all customers at work, the option to upgrade would help.
Keyboard cover assembly is right at the bottom of the tear down, you see Linus holding it with the mainboard attached near the end before he re-assembles. It's a massive oversight of Linus (and his writers) not to mention it, and even bigger one on HP's part to have it that deep since it's the most common thing that needs fixing.
HP, at least for the Australian region, seem to be fairly reasonable to deal with for warranty acceptance. That said we have a decent consumer laws as well that HP know they have to comply with. I'm betting HP's stance would vary region to region.
@Rhoanor re opening, while a guitar pick style tool or plastic spatula will help, they generally pop open at the screw end a little and then the cover can be lifted and wriggled open from that point. There are little plastic clips that the cover hinges off on the opposite side to the screws. Trying to open the wrong end, if you're used to doing it on other laptops, makes it harder.
The important part is that never got mentioned for HOW LONG they will supply parts
Maybe I didn’t hear it but that is a crucial part of the evaluation… sad that it was not taken into consideration
I know that for the Zbook mobile workstation line, parts will be available for at least 5 years after HP stops selling that model. That generally means around 7 generations (around 7 years) - the Zbook G10s are available now, and my Zbook G3 from 2016 is just reaching end of support. I was able to order a replacement battery around a year ago direct from HP.
5:58 pretty sure that's an AI version of Linus doing that line of dialog.
YEP
I'm seriously mind blown by the direction HP decided to take. It is certainly the way to go and should have been this way for decade.
As a repair agent, many commercial laptops (not just HP) have actually has been this way for a good while, Lenovo Thinkpads are very easy (at least he the ones I've had to work on). Going back further than that they were actually way better. 8-10 years ago they decided to make some models intentionally difficult to repair it seems (I blame Apple's influence). These days repair manuals can be found easily for most models for Dell, HP and Lenovo without needing some stupid partner login details. Parts can be a different story, they're mostly too expensive (mainboards and display panels can cost nearly as much alone as the original laptop did...)
EU is working on repairability similar to how USB-C was made a mandatary standard by them. The smart money is on being ahead this time.
if they only would do this for their printers, too
It's been like this forever on the business side dingus
@@Alaster- Yeah I don't see why this laptop called "reapairable" while my curent and previous laptop (asus and hp but 10 years ago) can be dissasembled about the same like this laptop in the video. The only difference I can see is that I can buy the parts from HP itself insted of buying it from ebay where I always found every replace parts for my previous laptops. And yeah sometimes they were realy expensive, but most of the time reasonable. Screen and cover usually not that expensive, at least for asus.
I want to see upgradability in new laptops. If they could be upgradable then the waste would really be reduced. People hardly ever buy used laptops, if I didn't have to throw my laptop in the trash every 4-5-6 years because the casing, display, hdd and sdd would still be usable, I would only have to replace the cpu or gpu and the waste would be significantly reduced.
I just remembered that I also still have a repairable HP laptop laying around, it's from a time when that was "just how things were" 😂 the battery is even attached externally and can be swapped with zero screws getting in the way.
Odd how times have changed, but I'm glad to see that they might be changing back slowly in that regard
Had a HP Elitebook 2540P, bought a third party battery online and gave it a new life. Which was nice because although it was a bulky machine, it was beautiful.
The thing I'm curious about is the components on the motherboard. One of the biggest things Louis Rossmann talks about is being blocked on getting a 20 cent component to keep from having to replace the entire motherboard. This seems like a good step, but would have liked to see a thorough review of the entire repairability.
True, but think of the degree of time it would take to literally hit up almost every possible avenue/ provider of components to be able to list that?
I think rossman’s level of repair and necessity is that ‘2 steps beyond’ what most hobbyists need. At a consumer level though, what framework and HP are doing should be bear minimum
At least if you screw up the USB you can replace it's board instead of throwing out the whole mobo so that's a success.
@@Dezzsoke for one side... The other side is all mounted to the mobo. And the mobo is locked by HP (assuming you want to update it's SN, Part name, part number etc so that your OS recognises it correctly. This not such a big issue for basic consumer, but it's massive for businesses).
well rossman is a reapir guy it is his job to get those parts and replace them and from what he tends to complain about there not usually laptops but macs. that ruffle his feathers
@@MonolithStudiosMelbourneI know it sounds like "bear" but the correct term is "bare minimum". Not being a grammar nazi here. Just thought you may not know and would want to know the correct wording.
As for the companies to provide individual components down to the nitty gritty, I agree it's not an easy feat. What they could do instead however could be to provide a link directly to the capacitor source for example so that people could get them from them instead of HP if they so need, rather than HP trying to control every single little thing's availability to consumers. It won't kill them, and on the contrary in my opinion would really strengthen my trust to HP as a brand much more than others.
HP has been the supplier at my agency for a while now.. ( Treasury Department )
Talking 60-100k laptops lol ( only for my branch, this isn't all of the treasury )
Glad to see the newer generation is like this and serviceable. I think we're on G8's but these will end up being there soon.
Impressive to see HP take this route and move towards this kind of design.. Honestly gained a good amount of respect for them.
HP Elite and Z-line laptops have been this level of serviceable since at least the G3 line.
Honestly, this just basically caught up to Dell's typical level of repairability.
(I'm an HP, Dell, and Lenovo certified technician and repair dozens of laptops per week)
We use G8s as well, and a flaw I can still see of this G9 is that the keyboard is integrated into the body, so if you have a keycap or something fall out you need to replace the entire bottom chassis of the laptop, which requires taking everything out of the machine.
The G5s and 6s had the keyboard as a separate unit to the frame, if they could return to that it would be truly fully repairable in a reasonable fashion
how do you handle fan control on the machines when they do overheat?
@@4Simmix4 speedfan??
I always appreciated the design of Elitebooks. I daily driven at work one Elitebook 850 G1 (or G2) for four years, next a Zbook 15 G3, also for four years, and now an 855 G8 since two months or so.
I loved the fact that you popped the back open and the whole mobo is exposed and you can easily replace HDD/SSD/ RAM, Wireless modules, clean the cooler fans or disassemble the whole cooling assembly to apply new thermal paste if needed... Basically a lot of stuff can be done just by opening the back. Replacing the keyboard was also possible without remove the mobo...
Buut... Elitebooks are designed with enterprise and fleet deployment in mind... and they command a premium price... I wish the same repairability is available on their lower end laptops too...
I really, really appreciate this channel's commitment to improving the industry's approach to e-waste and repairability. It feels tremendously sincere and always well thought out.
I agree, I have a few laptops that still have hardware in great condition, but are otherwise unusable due to a single component going out and is outside my scope of reparability due them needing to be soldered and the repair cost is more than the part itself.
He’s literally selling you something?
@@BenWeinerRVA literally how companies like this make their money. However selling something honestly while trying to improve the industry and give you longer lasting product is a win-win.
I find it is much more common to be considerate of this type of thing here in Canada. We're pretty heavily for good environmentally friendly and sustainability practices here. It's a big part of many of our political parties policies.
I'm pretty sure the $225K investment isn't due to a belief in their financial future, but more due to a belief that what they're doing is good for the industry. It's great that HP is opting for more repairability.
it's both
Dell business line laptops have been repairable for a while. All of course depending on the modell and spcs. But ive fixed a few
lol he's shown on wan show that he hasn't invested in framework for the money (he said he hasn't checked the stock price since he invested)
@@monotypemesh3174 It's almost like the Elitebook is HP's business range.
What possibly makes you think that?
This thing is basically what the dell XPS 15 / Precision 15 once were.
A lot of this video reminds me of upgrading my 9570(so far I've changed ram, ssd, wifi Card and battery - all without needing to consult their awesome service manual).
Sad dell decided to move away from this(as a Linux user I find the soldered atheros cards the most infuriating)...
Two things that still might be better.
1. TrackPoint like in ThinkPads. It's not for everyone but one can dream. And HP does support it on some models.
2. One USB-C port on each side! Srsly the ability to charge from either side or dock to an eGPU enclosure is enormous!
2. especially for the lefties among us.
@@con-f-use or just the ability to charge the laptop on either side instead of having to loop the damn cable.
@@con-f-use I don't see how ambidextrousness isn't a bigger part in laptop design. At the very least the a ability to charge and a USB A on each side, for mouse room
Or even just more ports in general. I love what framework is doing with their swappable dongle/port things and it would be great if other manufacturers did the same.
I also really want more double sided USB-C laptops out there
I just recently picked up a new HP laptop. I saw the HP video with the replacement of every part. Not only is it an official guide, the thing is freaking timestamped for all the fixes. Awesome.
I ended up getting an HP due in large part to how well my old HP laptop did. There were problems and at the end it was being held together with duct tape and super glue (like, literally actually using duct tape and super glue), but there was always a way to fix it. Even the problem that I thought was going to force me to get a new laptop was able to get fixed, though not before I found a deal on a new HP that was too good to pass up.
Until you actually have to deal with HP support and parts.
The framework still seems wayy more user friendly
As a previous computer repairman, HPs laptops was already quite repairable 5 years ago. Also their business support was exellent, you could order parts directly.
i have hp x360 g1 440(8gen intel cpu) and i can find on youtube official hp disassemble guide
Yes, but the HP batteries are TRASH! Both my personal and work laptop battery died!
They need to be, due to the amount of issues with their laptops xD... even the zbook line is subpar compared to the likes of lenovo or dell, both of which are also highly repairable ;)
Lenovo and Dell is pretty much the same on the inside. tho the parts might be hard to get tho...
Not sure why everyone is touting the repairability of Dell and Lenovo. Have you actually disassembled the *newest* ThinkPads and Latitudes? They're not very repairable (especially the ThinkPads).
5:52 Did they make a separate recording, or is that section AI generated?
Just a small note, you should disconnect the battery immediately after opening the case, before starting to disassemble anything.
Thinkpads are also very repairable, and have been since nearly the beginning. There's a webstore where you can order almost literally any part, and if it's not in stock, it'll give you a compatible one. Lenovo has official video tutorials on how to open and repair the laptops. All the screws inside are even marked with which type they should be! And the captive screws are standard on thinkpads
I once asked the customer service for a new battery because it wasn't in stock on their website, they sent me the link of the OEM with the precise model... Except that the OEM doesn't sell to public so good but not perfect
Not so much anymore. For the last ~4 years, the majority of ThinkPad ultrabooks (X1 Carbon, X13, T14s, etc) have had soldered RAM. Most of the Intel ThinkPads also have soldered WiFi - even on laptops that definitely have the space, like the X1 Extreme.
I tried buying a replacement for my ThinkPad X240 back in 2019 that was just as repairable, and I ended up going for a Dell Latitude. HP Elitebook was also enticing even at the time, but they were comparatively expensive in Canada.
Really happy that 3 years later, we have an option like Framework.
Most of new thinkpads have ram soldered, they are repairable yes, but upgradability is mediocre
Was coming in to say this. Having worked in IT for over 10 years, I've enjoyed nothing more than servicing the L and T series Thinkpads from Lenovo. Easily the most repairable out of the Big Three by a country mile.
As of recently, I've seen pretty much all new Lenovo laptops, even Thinkpads, have soldered RAM without any unsoldered slots. You have to choose the RAM you want from when you buy it, with no chance to upgrade later on.
I don't own a HP but I would think about them now just for this reason, I have been watching Louis and other people like linus cheer for this for a while. Amazing work
I once got hold of approx. 6 years old laptop for cleaning (I don't really remember the brand, but it was something more premium like an elitebook) and the bottom cover had ZERO screws....At first I really had no idea how to open it and almost decided to pry it open just when I found two sliders on each side for opening....therefore "screwless" notebooks are nothing new...
HP Z books done it since like G3 with sliding pack plate and 5 m2 screws for many years now, idk why LTT just catching on lol
What about keyboard replacements? Quite crucial if you ask me. That being said, the EliteBook line used to be super easy to repair untill a few years back. Glad to see theyre coming back around on that.
I think keyboard and mobo are the two main things Framework offer that this device doesnt - and I agree completely on the keyboard as it's the most likely to get worn/damaged, or even be the part that most people want to upgrade for cosmetics (blank keycaps/unworn keycaps) the most.
Ease of keyboard replacement and the screwless back panels and batteries were some of my favorite features of the older EliteBooks. The keyboard seems like a big thing to omit.
what are you doing with your keyboard that it fails. I dont know anyone who has ever had a problem with a keyboard before.
@@lizziemcdonald1748 no one asked about who you knew.
@@lizziemcdonald1748 I support employees at a large corporation. Keyboards are one of the components that most frequently needs replacement. Spills, pets, accidents, wear and tear...
As someone that used to work repairing HP laptops I must say "OMG how far we've come!"
Great work by HP here, this laptop would have made my work so much better 10 years ago
I remember wanting to upgrade my wifi to a wifi card that wasn't even available from HP's line of outdated wifi cards. But HP's BIOS had a whitelist restriction on wifi cards and refused to boot with a NON-HP wifi card installed.
So I debugged the BIOS file and altered the whitelist into a blacklist (just by changing one JMP instruction). Essentially, the HP laptop now accepts ONLY NON-HP wifi cards (and refuses to boot if you are using a real HP wifi card).
My prediction: By the time these laptops actually need to be repaired in 5 years, HP will have decided it is not profitable, obsolete it, and deny it's existence.
Old hp laptops are nightmare to take it apart..
HP's enterprise lineup always had a lot of documentation and manuals. It used to come on these bundle of CDs with everything you needed.
Yeah that's cool and all, but what about the cheaper models? Imagine being a student, not able to affford a premium device and then getting fcked when trying to replace a battery after 2 Years.
The replacement are the Quick Spec sheets and other PDFs on their (very slow) web page. Works good enough :P
@@XA--pb9ni If I know correctly the 255 notebooks are the cheaper models.
I couldnt find the parts readily available on their part surfer page. Usually though the SKU is on a sticker and should be relatively easy to find out by reviews from ifixit and other repair outlets.
I highly doubt this will also mean we’ll get MXM slot GPUs, and CPU slot laptops again. This might just mean the other things are more easily repairable.
If they would do that laptops would become better than pc
the new frameworks are gonna have slotable gpus :)
@@raresmotoroiu7424 Not really. MXM slots and laptop cpu slots were removed due to that making the device more expensive, and it added to the bulk of the device.
five screws for a bottom plate may seem great but i remember my old Dell laptop with only one captive screw. It was a slide-off bottom plate and once you removed the one screw, the whole internal circuitry was accessible. It was much more convenient than anything i have ever used.
I had a keyboard die on a HP Omen 15 laptop, and the new part is ~200U-300SD if not more and is integrated with the chassis. From what I see the same is the case with the reviewed HP Elitebook 840 G9. The Framework laptop on the other hand has a 50USD replaceable keyboard. So for anyone heavily using the keyboard, the Framework laptop seems like a better option.
I wish the video covered the keyboard in more detail.
Yeah if the keyboard is not replacable or expensive, it kinda misses the point. Keyboard is something that is replaced most often in a notebook. But that are sponsored videos for you, the bad is never mentioned .....
G9 quickspecs also mention "soldered RAM", at least the 830 model.
Some of those parts are so expensive. $563.27 for a replacement LCD panel? $147 for an LCD "support kit" (which i suppose means a bracket), $169.27 for the LCD ribbon cable, $465 for the webcam module, $267.41 for a lid without the LCD, $227.58 for a replacement keyboard panel, $438.10 for a 512GB SSD... etc.
Last time I bought a genuine 17" 1080p LCD panel from Samsung's UK service centre it was £120 (about $150).
A massive improvement for sure, but the Framework is still more repairable or at least easier to repair. Kudos to HP but still a little more to go before I'd say it's mission accomplished. Of particular note, while the trackpad is relatively easy to replace, the keyboard is not. You have to remove every component to replace the keyboard including system board, you don't need to do that on the Framework. Keyboard is definitely one of the parts more likely to be replaced so this is definitely an area HP can improve. Also of note, their RUclips channel does not really show explicitly how to swap the keyboard, I'd like to see it bc I recently had to swap a keyboard on a Lenovo X1 7th Gen, using a donor laptop. It's 140 or so screws that hold in the keyboard. Not even joking. Multiply that by two since I had to pull it from a parts donor laptop. So curious to see how many screws this keyboard takes. I'm about to begin another round of evaluations for new laptops for my company and repairability is high on the list. The Framework loses points for me and my company because it's not widescreen.
Overall, Kudos to HP for these changes, and as others have said if Framework pushes other manufactures to make their crap more repairable it's not a failure. Certainly this HP has put itself on my short list of potential options.
The keyboard is part of the top cover assembly. It comes as a whole unit. You "can" remove the keyboard from this, but it's a nightmare - screws, sticky tape etc. And yep, everything is attached to the top cover assembly, so it's a crap job. No idea why HP (and others) do this, since it's so easy to have everything mounted to a base cover and have the keyboard cover easily removed 1st.
Or I could get a Raspberry Pi, and then I can even repair the individual chips. Of course, working on a Raspberry Pi every day will cost you a tonne of time every day, due to how slow it is.
Same thing here. Yeah, they keyboard might take 20 more minutes to replace, but you only have to do that maybe once every 5 years. The Framework, on the other hand, will cost you a little bit of time every single day, due to its small screen, its slower CPU, and its Intel GPU.
More importantly, the Framework's parts are MUCH cheaper.
@@RickYorgason framework comes with a 12th gen intel cpu if you want
I don't see how anyone can say that to be a _slow_ laptop cpu
@@RickYorgason bro really compared intel's 12th gen to a raspberry pi lmao
I love how the presence of companies like Framework has pushed a major player like HP closer towards repairability. Keep up the great work!
It doesn’t, at least not for HP. My old HP laptop (AMD HD4000-era) had a 100 page service manual walking through the replacement of any component. The design was awful with a lot of steps, but they do provide the spare parts and documentation for a long time
The thing is, this is basically already what hp business class laptops look like with a slight bit more sauce on it. The real issue is that all cheap HP laptops, and there are lots, are absolutely horrible plastic things not made to repair at all.
Honestly: Its not true. HP had those models for a while now. Plus in the more premium segment you were always able to get the parts from HP for years. This is nothing new.
Also soldered RAM, i.e. LPDDR4/5 actually has advantages in notebooks so I really do not know why you would hype the upgradable RAM.
Now it depends on how long they will support the laptop after newer model comes out, and the price of the parts of course.
they already dropped it. there is no part in store. and not way to ask for more parts
@@ereder1476 try to replace something in macbook
I think the big caveat is that years down the line they might stop selling replacement parts, so even if its easily replacable you might not be able to find oem or even third party parts considering the number of different parts hp has. I ran into this a while back trying to replace my less than 5 year old hp laptop
If it’s a popular model used parts are also a huge source of parts, just like how laptops have been getting repaired for decades now, with donors.
eBay is filled with old parts.
@@alexmills1329 @PackCracker66 The battery is guaranteed to wear out eventually, usually before anything else fails if the build quality is good and you're gentle with your devices. And batteries can't be salvaged, can't be bought on eBay because of counterfeits, and ideally should be newly-manufactured because they slowly degrade just sitting on a shelf.
@@alexmills1329 idk how popular my old hp envy was but after I could not find the exact model number I did try purchasing replacement keyboards which seemed like it would fit but was just barely too big. I tried contacting support and they confirmed it was no longer being stocked and adviced me to upgrade.
I dont doubt that you could find replacements for popular models, but if this laptop gets buried below the other models (cause the vast majority of laptop owners probably dont care about repairability) I doubt that hp will continue stocking parts. Though the cynic in me thinks that they might be using planned obsolescence to force upgrades as I really doubt that keyboard designs should change that much.
@@PackCracker66 I wouldn’t use fake parts from ebay 🤣
I got my FrameWork just a couple of weeks ago. If the company can keep wrinkling out some of the "minor" issues that keep cropping up for customers, I'd be happy to see them move right into the ranks of the other laptop manufacturers
I just got mine over the weekend and am over the moon with it so far.
I did go out of my way and pick up a ssd & ram kit rather than their offering at framework
(32 gb for a better price and same performance... yes please) for the ssd thou it's nothing on framework it's more me... I've had bad blood with Western Digital and cant forgive them just yet.
Just wish for XMP support and maybe second m.2 slot would be neat but I feel if framework is in it for the long haul... they need amd version and possibly a 15-17 in with gpu.
@@mrhomer57 That's literally all I'm waiting on is for them to release a larger laptop with a GPU and I'm all in but until then I just can't cause I hate small laptops and I game on my laptop enough for a GPU to be important.
@@theninjamaster67 I was there too.... but then I got a steam deck and rarely used my laptop for gaming anymore. And since my old Asus wasn't getting any younger figured I would recoup some cash cleaning it up and flipping it to someone looking for a stronger laptop on the cheap.
Don't get me wrong I still rock a desktop so gaming isn't only steam deck but for a travel laptop to do odds and ends (maybe pick up python as a new hobby) it's a great little machine.
@@mrhomer57 Eh if I was gonna get something more portable for gaming I'd get the GPD Win 4 cause it'll actually fit in your pocket Steam Deck is nice cause it's cheap and will help push forward gaming on Linux but it's by no means a laptop replacement or handheld replacement for that matter IMO.
@@theninjamaster67 that's fair. I just found in personal experience that for mobile pc gaming I found the steam deck more than sufficient for me.
I still agree with the Louis Rossmann video on this, almost all of the replacement parts on the hp website are out of stock. Making a laptop easier to open and repair is a step in the right direction for HP, if you can't get any parts to repair it with, then it isn't very repairable.
But do you even watch?
This is amazing to see! I stil remember my HP that needed too many screens to open (and some where hidden behind the keyboard) which I found out too late (the fan and the keyboard was screwed). Hope more manufactures follow suit!
I've been in laptop repairs for 8 years and this is basically the same as fixing a normal laptop these days. The only extra thing here is it's slightly easier to buy the parts.
a ton of laptops have some soldered ram these days
have you not seen the newest laptops from the past 7 years?
Yeah, the parts availability is what looks different to me.
I was repairing Dell Ultrabooks back in 19 and there was no problem servicing them, but getting the parts outside of dells network was what would be the problem with repairability.
They even made screws mostly all the same size, so gone are the days of keeping close track of long and short screws.
(and find the spare part SKUs)
I agree with you too there. Main thing will be parts availability and unfortunately we can tell only after couple of years if HP keeps inventory. I still have couple of smartphones with removable batteries but no batteries are available. I don't know if power ports and the rest of I/O ports are replaceable, but Framework modular design is better in my opinion, allowing for I/O upgrades in the future keeping the same laptop/chassis out of the landfill.
my old laptop was a HP 650 G1 Probook (i think probook) from around 2014 and you can swap out the battery and ram completely tool-less. im glad that at least some principles still remain
HP Elite line has been very repairable for years. Been supporting and recommending them for a long time.
I think Framework still has a place in the market, with the user changeable IO and literally full customablity. Its amazing HP has made this effort, we should hope we can expect this from more people.
On the surface, this looks really good. Lets give it a year or two and see if parts remain available to fix last years (or last last years) model.
Repairability is one thing, long-term availability of the parts to do so will be the hill upon which this dies.
Tbh, as a pc repairman, idk if I want more easy repairs more than I want more open source software.
Either way.
This is good.
More like this please other OEMs
Of course you wouldn't want easier repairs since it would make basic things like a replacing a battery more than doable by someone who isn`t a pc repairman guydude** tis joke
Why not both!
There's still going to be plenty of people who don't want to deal with themselves. So your job gets easier and you can focus on those customers.
We need more repairable, modular laptops. Im excited to see a day where you build them from the ground up yourself like a desktop. Laptop chassis form factor standards.
That is not going to happen. Form factor standards in such a densly packed device would be either a huge waste of space or out of date after 2 years. We absolutely should demand repairablility and spare parts, but I'm fine with that being device specific for some components.
@@jimhalpert9421 You would also need to figure out cooling for devices like that. You’d need to buy a chassis and heat sink that can adequately cool it. Or the regular chassis would be huge.
@@jimhalpert9421 Im okay with it being device specific too. But eventually it isnt farfetched to have industry standard laptop cooling, chassis, motherboard etc. You would just need enough brands on board with manufacturing them. Every computer is "out of date" after 2 years based on that line of thought. And i believe it is the exact opposite of a waste of space. Thanks for your professional guarantee, but i beg to differ.
@@official_pol2198 Peltier coolers exist and if used the right way, could take small form factor cooling really far. just saying. 10-15 years from now its not a stretch to say its possible. If i could build my own laptop, just like a desktop, I would do it before i bought a pre built any day.
One of the things that kept me in the past from working with laptops was the cumbersome process of disassembling them to reach just one component, and when one component busted, it usually took something else with it.
years ago i lost hope in HP products, but This product looks very promising and may cause my faith to shine once more.
Fully loaded for just shy of $3,000 😅 it’s cool that they offer FreeDOS as an option, otherwise every upgrade is insanely expensive.
Hopefully time levels out the cost because user-repairable/upgradable laptops is a fantastic idea!
I got it for 1200 on Black Friday and a DDR5 64gb kit online for 120 and now I'm very happy
HP Certified tech here, it was kind of surreal to watch you do my job as I usually listen to your videos while I work. Glad you like the product!
My hp laptop is 3 years old, it has a ryzen 3500 and i really like it, it just needed an upgrade which i did today, extra ram and 1tb nvme ssd, what made me frustrated was the screws that were unnecessarily under the masive rubber feet, that i had to rip out to get to the screws!
Glad to see they changed that for this product!
16:10 is a great improvement over the usual 16:9, but Framework's 3:2 is still the way to go for laptops IMO.
the video ends at 13 minutes..
@@leogarcia4657 16:10 is the aspect ratio 😅
I think I agree there, although I'm finding with my Framework that there's more overall support for 16:9/16:10 instead and I have to use a weird resolution to get things to appear at a reasonable size on my 13" display
@@Ash-qp2yw I use a 1.5x scaling ratio in Linux Mint and things look normal.
I had to check the date on this video.
This looks like Elitebooks i repaired back in 2015, in fact older ones were tool-less to open the rear panel. I don't think Linus ever saw a midrange business laptop.
They have also ALWAYS provided several hundred page "service manuals" free to download on the website without any account.
The older Mobile Workstations (ZBooks) were also very easy to repair.
Before even getting a minute in to this video, I will agree on the reparability of HP business notebooks, and more recently engineering laptops (their Z-series starting with the G3 models). I actually ENJOY fixing them. You can replace nearly any major component in under and hour, and most in 30 minutes or less, with a little experience.
I would like a special episode just about how Linus is using the 8BitDo Zero 2 controller to control the camera. Seems awesome.
While it wasn't promoted like they are now, my Elitebook 850 G3 is almost as easy to work on. While I haven't taken a whole lot out, the internal battery is more easily removed than the computer you look at here. Remove the bottom, undo 2 screws and remove the battery. I did have to replace the keyboard and that was very easy, after opening up and removing the battery, just remove either 2 or 4 screws (can't remember) and pop out the keyboard from the outside and unplug a couple ribbon cables. RAM super easy, and it has a SATA and an M.2 slot.
As someone who had an old HP that was mindbogglingly stupid to JUST open and clean the coolers, this may be a good sign to reverse my old "never buy hp again" policy.
I tried to disassemble my old alienware 15 R2, and once I took it all down and cleaned it, I literally could not put it back together. It made me sick to my stomach looking at all the cords and wires that go through little loops and holes and squares all over, how intricately it was designed like building a labyrinth. I ultimately gave up, and was actually upset because I've repaired countless handhelds, consoles, and pc's effectively and correctly without a hitch. I really hope laptops of tomorrow are dumbed down in terms of reparability.
Good to have competition. Hopefully more big manufacturers jump in on this. A win for everyone
Kudos to HP. I used to have an old 8760w elitbook where you could remove the whole bottom cover in one literal second by pulling two slidelock tabs.
Any company that takes the opposite approach as Apple (glue, adhesive and other anti repair initiatives) has my support and loyalty.
now lets see how long this lasts.
With HPs track record? I give about 2-4 years before all the replacement parts are all 'mysteriously' out of stock permanently making this just a PR stunt.
Prove me wrong HP, keep the machine supported for more than 12 years and I'll consider it a genuine try at this part of the market - for now tentative and the framework is, honestly, just better anyway but it's a good start.
1 odd thing though; why have a physical blocker for the main camera...but not the IR camera? The IR camera is arguably *much* more of a tempting target so why not block that physically too? Nice touch, hope more companies add this as a standard to laptops, but unless it blocks *all* cameras it's utterly useless lol.
This is great! I'd really love to see a return to socketed CPUs too. I don't mind the extra what, 3mm?
Unless it's a gaming PC. I guess that would be too much UEFI and power plan hassle to support (affects cost). Also probably more than 10% extra overall thickness, that's actually a lot.
Edit: Did even Framework have this opportunity? I don't remember anymore.
Socketed CPUs don't make a ton of sense for laptops considering due to the fact that you will need to upgrade the chipset and potentially cooling and power delivery anyway. Not to mention we would have to get all the CPU and GPU vendors onboard with it.
@@RadioactiveBlueberry they do sell 12th gen swap in motherboards for their 11th gen models.
@@rysterstech laptops used to have socketed CPUs and you could change then and upgrade them.
My old HP Envy 4 was very highly repairable and lasted me 6 years before I repaired it again to give it to my then-girlfriend, who I think probably still uses it. I don't know what the surprise is here. HP already had decent repairability back in the days. (the laptop - or ultrabook, as it was called then - was bought in 2013)
Probably due to the more premium devices like spectre and other types of devices (I think even the spectre is similiar repairable).
Given that Framework still isn't offering any Ryzen builds and doesn't seem to have any timeframe on if and when that is even planned, this is an excellent alternative to all of us that were opting for a Ryzen build. The battery life compared to ASUS Zenbooks is a bit lackluster though. Having a 67 or even 70+ wH battery with such a setup would be nice.
This might just be what I need to teach my family members to be able to repair their own devices :D
Yeah sure they will do it themselves then and not just call you 😂
Well that's the I hope 😭💀
I'm wish I had more disposable income to actually buy this and the framework just to show support for those products. I love the fact that HP jumped into the repairability bandwagon
the one problem some older EliteBook's (only as old as two to three years ago) have had are battery expansion problems, with as many as 14 showing problems in my small 100 person branch office, so much so that the whole company is now almost full over to ThinkPads to replace them.
Battery is replaceable. Just did my 840 g5 for 30$ on Amazon and it included necessary tools. Expansion was so bad Case wouldn't seal! but if your company only supports OEM, HP stopped producing this battery. ThinkPad is a great alternative.
@@raceofrobots9152 the batteries had already warped the frame, panels and keyboard, plus they were leased computers so we did not have the authority to do any hardware repair. Leased computers and business without an in-house/local IT is why I am more critical of big OEMs and any hardware, and more so, safety problems they might have.
I recently picked up a pretty low cost HP Pavilion and was extremely happy with how easy it was to open and replace near everything inside, including upgrading the RAM by just popping a module in. It's very good to see.
Glad to see this review, hope this catches on and continues.
Yeah, HP has secretly had a bunch of repairable laptops for a while now in the pavillion series (AMD versions)... You wouldn't be able to tell from the AD copy though, since most of them say they don't support "Upgradeable RAM". However, if you dig for the repair guide it will clearly show that the RAM is in fact socketed.
Great to see. This should be a commonality between all of HP's product line though, ESPECIALLY for everything going forward. I'm not *wowed* by the ease of disassembly as much as I was with the framework. Things like a magnetic bezel are pretty great, but this is what I'd consider an acceptable bare minimum. Obviously the biggest thing here is that you can actually buy replacement parts (for now).
That "for now" being important. Motorola had a page of parts for my phone linked from the iFixit page but once the mower hit the screen that parts page was gone.
Exactly. The difference is that I trust Framework to keep maintaining their line of repairable laptops, assuming they are around. I don't trust HP or Dell to be supporting their line with upgrade components and repair parts in five years. Hopefully they are.
Excited about this but immediately got disappointed by the configuration options in Europe (Netherlands). Compared to the US it's basically non-existent. Wonder if that will change in time...
Already watched on Floatplane. Watching again so HP and FW see the engagement! I was debating between an HP and Lenovo, and this just tipped the scales to HP.
Both offer the same amount of repeatability depending on the model. Not to knock on HP but I don't see anything special here that a corporate laptop hasn't already been doing for the past number of years.
I'm glad to see hp is getting back into repairability, because I have an HP G42 that's so old it's basically useless, but that thing was so easy to take apart and even upgrade, it had a cpu socket and I did upgrade it a few time actually, for dual, to tri, finally to quad core before it finally was gpu limited which was sadly bga so I couldn't upgrade it even if there was some available
cool. but i hope this isn´t just for PR and they drop support in two years as soon as the next model comes out.
Such a good video! I really like to see other big brands like HP joining to the reparability movement. It is only matter of time that also become upgradeable. Live long Framework, you have shown the path
I absolutely love my framework, and it makes me so happy to see other brands beginning to follow along.
The elitebook series and probook series where always more open and easier to repair/replace.
The pavillion series, now those were hard to open and service.
These solutions like framework(minus the modular ports) and other brands that keep on bragging about repairability are just funny for someone that knows every laptop was like this back in the day.
I love this. However I think with the open source side of framework it makes it slightly more attractive. Anyways really cool from HP!
So that HP has finally caught up to the other professional laptops. I recently had to work on a brand new Thinkpad t15 gen 2. The display comes out with a few clips, 4 screws , and a ribbon cable. The keyboard is even less. All parts are available and repair guides are provided by Lenovo. Pro level laptops have been like this for as long as I can remember.
Yep. The consumer ones might be shit, but professional models are usually far far easier to work on.
I have an Elitebook 840 G1, given to me as a discarded enterprise laptop. While it's thick and plasticky, it's an absolute dream to open up. Zero screws to access the battery, zero screws to access the RAM, four screws to access the SATA drive. Enterprise laptops tend to be way better than consumer laptops in the repairability department, so it's no surprise that the G9 is still pretty good on that front.
Although HP has a better processor than the framework. I do like that you can pick what ports you want to have and can switch out quickly.
Are board schematics available for independent repair shops or individual buyers? It is great that so many components are available but what if a chip soldered on the motherboard needs to be swapped with a new one? Can an independent repair shop buy the chip or do they have to swap the whole motherboard?
And how is this laptops Linux support?
I was about to ask the same thing, Frameworks said they were going to do it, I'm not sure if they did. I want to see what see what Louis Rossmann has to say about it. #fighttorepair
I finally cracked my XT2041DL screen a few days ago. I quickly learned of how repair places make the money. They make it so expensive to the point where you might as well get a newer phone and they sell it themselves... I'm sorry what? Sell it MYSELF is what I would've done. I'm keepin my awesome phone and requested a screen protector. Two unfortunate things happened: 1 Poly carbonate screen protector causes this rainbow particle effect, 2 the speakers now sound almost distorted on certain volumes/frequencies. I'm gonna ask about that cause only the screen broke, what would they have done to the perfectly good speakers?
I've always hated working on HP devices. The two newer HP laptops I had to fix for family members was so easy to fix. Also HP support will give you part numbers no questions asked even if they don't sell the parts themselves and out of warranty. I still wouldn't personally buy a HP product however I'm so happy they are going in this direction and I hope they continue.
Because those where probably consumer laptops? Elitebooks are a business laptop. You can buy them ofc, but they are priced and marketed to businesses.
I want a Framework 16 so bad I can taste it. But since it will be $2K or more, it might as well be $2mil.
They're not even selling in my Country. 😢
I happen to have an Elitebook 845 g10 with Ryzen as a working machine for a year now and I absolutely love it.
I got 1x16gb of RAM though, and realized it's too small in a week, so went to the nearest PC shop and got another 16gb so-dimm stick which was just recognized by the system with no performance penalty.
So I got a very meaningful upgrade for my HP elitebook in the first days of it's ownership which I could perform myself and really love it.
And another extremely nice thing I do appreciate in it, is Linux support, as I had 0 troubles with any onboard devices and clean Ubuntu installation.
Especially in contrast to my previous dell XPS 13, which I struggled with for the whole time I had to use it...
Massive respect to Linus for walking the walk on giving a really fair review to this product. He said that he wouldn't let his Framework affiliation tamper with his reviews, and this is a great first step to proving that.
This isn’t a review, this is a ‘showcase’; the distinction is that showcases are sponsored and include talking points the sponsor asked to include, while reviews do not. However, Linus makes a point to be honest in both types, so showcases are still trustable even if they are by nature less critical of the product.
@@Cloud30000 thank you random internet pedant, I'll correct my language in the future
My company had HP laptops back in 2012 2013 that had very similar repair ability. We had about 6000 of them deployed and they were so easy to work on. Loved those laptops.
Typing this on an easily repairable HP HDX 9000, I'm glad to see HP going the right direction again, and not the way of Apple and the other big brands. They prove that its not necessary to make everything propritary. Lets hope they can do the same to their prebuilts, especially the gaming line.
It's really great that HP went to that length to make their laptop repairable, and I really hope that it keeps going in that direction. Next, it would be great for them to work on their Linux support.
This is great. I have Framework listed as a replacement to my gaming laptop should they get a high performance or gaming model. Now that HP has entered the market, I will also be keeping an eye on them too, however I'd stick with Framework out of principal if I can get away with it.
Yeah, I wish they had a 15-17" line with a discrete GPU.
@@KJ4EZJ ideally for me I'd go for a 15 with tenkey. but with how small those chassis are getting I don't know if that's possible lol. Then again some 17's are like a thick bezelled 15 nowadays so we'll see