This House is Embarrassed to be British | Cambridge Union
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- Опубликовано: 13 сен 2024
- Debate's Results: Ayes: 119| Noes: 194| Abstentions: 56
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Go and be embarrassed elsewhere then.
I'm embarrassed that Cambridge students are arrogant enough to ask this question from atop possibly the absolute best the world has to offer. This is about the only thing that *could* make me embarrassed to be British.
Great to have a discussion on this topic...As long as everyone sees that it is the height of privilege (and ingratitude) to be vocally embarrassed at a society that has afforded you safety, rights, equality, freedom, a first class education, and no doubt wealth. I'd love to hear the Union debate a question that wasn't framed explicitly according to the liberal equity politics that appear drenched into every elite institution in the West. Can we have something that pushes the envelope just an inch?
Well said..
Indeed
Amen
Is the first speaker embarrassed by the Caste System with it's darker skinned Dravidian slave class, that started at about the same time Stonehenge was built? and does she think that Dravidians should be paid reparations by all other South Asians?
How about the fact that she wouldn’t even be at Cambridge if The British had stayed out of India. Maybe she should worry more about the 500 million people in northern India that still go to the bathroom outside wherever they feel like. If you ever go there you learn real quick to only walk on the roads and well worn pathways and never step in the ditch along side the roads lol. And yes the caste system is still very much in play in India.
@@prepperjonpnw6482 How do you know that? There are Chinese students at Cambridge. Japanese students too. There are probably Thai students as well. Those countries were never colonized by the Brits and yet there are students there from those countries.
@@prepperjonpnw6482 The British went home...
Can you return 45 trillion dollars? or the people you killed or repatriate you took to work in the indies and kohinoor?
I find that most of these kids don’t have a clue as to how the real world works. They toss around words like reparations with out a thought as to where does all that money come from to pay for it. Who gets paid? The people in some foreign land or their government which will simply steal it all for those at the top. When does it end? For if you go back far enough we all have ancestors that were abused or enslaved and stomped on. Should the Scandinavian countries pay reparations to the countries that their ancestors pillaged and raped and enslaved. The Irish routinely grabbed people from Britain and used them as slaves, St Patrick? Or does the famine in the 1800’s make up for that? When is Egypt going to start cutting checks to the Jews for the 400 years of slavery. Are the Native American tribes going to start paying each other from their casino profits for all of the slavery that went on there. Or how about all the Africans of various tribes that captured other Africans and then sold them into slavery. Oh and don’t forget the Moor’s they were into the slavery gig as well. My point is you only have to go back a few years and you start finding groups of people being used and abused by other groups of people and it’s been going on since the beginning of time. The way these people talk is there’s no reason at all to be proud of your heritage and/or ancestors because go back far enough and dig deep enough and you will find negative stuff everywhere.
I like to think of all the positive things, for example make a list of all the democracies in this world and most if not all exist because of a little country called England. America, Canada, Australia, India, Ireland, New Zealand and all the nations of Europe that are no longer under nazi occupation because England and her allies drove them out. Where’s all the cheering for those achievements?
In the end its just a bunch of over privileged college kids who have yet to start paying taxes and not one has served in the military.
Awfully British. Astoundingly; proudly. Never but by British hands shall British Rights be wronged. Think about it.
Imagine a Russian university debating this? Pathetic waist of time. Everyone involved should be embarrassed.
@@saccount-z3 okay....
Trevor Philips made a most valuable contribution. Thank you
Except he thinks Lukashenko runs Russia...
Trevor Phillips made some great points, especially the point that slave traders and not the victims got compensated.
But like most Labour right he mentions China but thinks people who protest against Israels apartheid regime shouldn't be heard.
As for the point the audience member made about Priti Patel, Phillips forgets that Patel wants to lock up British Journalists for 14 years if they embarrass the Government no different to all those other nations that he mentioned that do it.
@@tehdreamer he was clearly talking about belarus
If you ignore your National identity, then should you in all good conscience vote for the leaders of the government of the ‘Nation’, since you don’t recognise it?
This is probably going to come out wrong but has it occurred to anyone that we never heard stuff like this or reparations until our leadership
and/or government started being filled with a more diverse group of people?
Prepperjon, what is your point?
@@BS-vx8dg no the communists were banging the same drum in the 50s
@@toniscotta9360 look were their line of reasoning got them.
@@BS-vx8dg it’s a comment section.
Comment | noun
Remark, discussion.
I think it fits the remit without needing a point, even if one can be extrapolated out of it. Learn to read would be my suggestion.
Sins of the Father seems to be a big topic these days. Seems to be getting rebranded with terms like equity, and social justice. But the real key word is guilt. Should people feel guilty for what their father, or governments did in the past? Well, the answer is no. A person is not to blame, nor should they be rewarded with praise for what other people did. If you live in a society that treats people unfairly, pass laws and strive to offer fairness of opportunity and competition. Otherwise, you'll just be keeping the door open for inferior beliefs that keep blood feuds, and entitlements ever present.
I really enjoyed this debate. As always, you give me things to think about. I don't have a University education, having left school to work when I was sixteen.
My thanks to the Speakers, and to the personable Mr Bradwell for chairing the debate, and here is my input, for what it's worth.
All nations have blood and shameful things in their pasts; Britain was not the only Imperial power - That was a time of Empires. There were certainly atrocities committed, but there were also good Laws spread to other lands, and trade routes were opened creating avenues not just for commerce but also for the exchange of ideas and ideals. Did Britain take advantage of the African's own slave trade? Like others, yes of course, but we also ended it globally, and whilst the latter doesn't balance out the former, it should be acknowledged that there were good things to come from that history too.
And so it is with the vast swathe of human History.
Our present morals and views and ways of living are different to those of the Past - Are they better? Future Generations will be the judge of that. But it seems to me that people who spend their time searching the Past for embarrassment and shame to heap upon the living, instead of improving our collective present, are unproductive, and avoiding real action as positive societal contributors now.
I am not embarrassed of being British for what went before - it is History. I am embarrassed for being British now, as it is a time, not for avoiding the miss-steps of the past, but for hand-wringing, finger-pointing and endless apologising... Which can only result in nil or negative societal progress.
In response to the gentleman who suggested that this shame and this embarrassment is not necessarily a British thing, as much as a white thing, and how this way of thinking diminishes and even erases his position on the national platform, and to which he earned some well-deserved applause, and in response to commentary from the very last speaker, I would like to point out this:
That this business of shame and embarrassment denote in strongest measure an attitude of punishment, in fact, very much the usual and the typical nod toward punitive reaction, which strongly suggests a desire for revenge.
Well all right.
And when this 'whip the puppy' kind of thing gets up and going, who is it who will wield the stick, the switch, and especially the whip? Who will they be? And as such, answerable to what guidelines, laws, agreements, requirements, restrictions, lawful and humane according to the day's legislative mood and measure?
Shame and embarrassment never worth the literal paper they're written on. They do nothing, offer nothing, are in fact, good for nothing, change nothing (in any real and measurable sense) and over any extended bit of time can actually do more damage.
As if we cannot understand the collective human psyche in the least.
As if the very roots of the Third Reich were never in any way whatsoever, connected to such an ebb and flow of human misery and mystery.
Could it be that over historical time, it has been a British way of thinking that has gone a long way toward figuring out such things? And how might that actually pan out when examining the worldwide stage this very day?
(as if the majority of history's greatest and most major empires were even European, much less British).
Those that don't know history barely at all over at least its time of record-keeping, can barely hold a candle or a comment toward sanction or scolding.
Trevor Phillips "... (mic drop)" 👌👏👏👏
I am definitely embarrassed of the students falling asleep or making funny faces. If they can't see how this debate is deeply interesting I can't see how the heck they got into Cambridge in the first place besides due to privilege.
Well, if the comment section has been restored, what of the good/bad taste debate ?
What've the Romans ever done for us?
Enjoyed the 1st speaker of the opposition 👏👏👏
53:14 Julian Assange be like: “Am I a joke to you?”
Op 2 - excellent 👏👏👏
Prop 2 showed potential but didn't capitalise on some interesting points. Faded.
Arguing that expressing embarrassment about one's society somehow gives comfort to Putin or anyone else who acts like an enemy of western states is interesting because it associates this argument with treason. Yet as the opposed argument demonstrates, there are easy ways to defend embarrassment. How do you reconcile these positions? I think if you have an intention to criticize things about western societies that are real problems deserving of real criticism, you should be couching your attitudes and behaviours in an intention of strengthening your nation and then be mindfully trying to use reconciling and constructive solutions. You have to consciously and strategically ask yourself "how will enemies of the state who don't care how we get compromised abuse our discussions about our historical insecurities?" and "how can I move towards reconciliation while denying the strategic objectives of those who would use this movement to move us towards compromise and control?" The dividing line here is one of hatred and anger. What the person trying to compromise your society will do will be to try and move your from embarrassment, critical positions and the will to criticize through to hatred and anger for your political opposition. If you did hate them, then defeating them will always be a core objective. But if you do not hate them, then overcoming their arguments will be a different objective entirely than overcoming *them* themselves. In this sense, you can found friendships despite differences in position in order to engage in a campaign of cooperative discourse to encourage gradual change over time.
This. This is what I'm for. Teleological debate, constructively exercised, as opposed to vitriolic discourse.
@@117Industries thanks
Putin does not act like an enemy of the west, the west portraits Putin as an enemy to its public in order to foster a negative mentality towards a leader who does not align their countries interests with the western hegemony and global dominance.
19:14 Like if Britain wasn’t a dictatorship of the bourgeoise with a genocidal past
Haha, can you provide a list of countries that are not a bourgeois or some other form of dictatorship, and were not at any point in their History genocidal, I' d be very interested to hear it.
@@ligottispandemoniumcarniva7014 Every state exists as a mean of oppression from a class to the others and it solely exists if there is classe’s conflict. Every form of state is a dictatorship of one class over the others. I’m not saying that there are countries (I prefer the term states) which aren’t a dictatorship of a class over the others. I’m saying that there’s nothing to show off from Britain’s perspective, add to that that 0,06% of the population owns half of the land and you have the complete recipe…
@@comitatocentrale2022 I think we're in agreement then, I took your comment to mean Britain is an exceptionally bad player in world history, and to say that any state is exceptionally "bad" or "good" is ridiculous when you consider the millions of wildly different personality types that every nation is made up from.
@@comitatocentrale2022 you must be so utterly depressing to be around. I’m uneducated, not ambitious, but rely on myself to keep myself in the way I feel comfortable. I’ve travelled a lot, from USA, Barbados, to Malaysia, where I lived for 15 years, Thailand, Japan, Philippines, Indonesia to France, Netherlands, Germany, Austria, Italy, and of course, being lower middle class English, Spain. This has given me a perpective that Britain is a great place to live, as I was always welcomed, over Americans, Australian and Western Europeans as most recognised what this tiny island on the edge of an ocean has given to the world. I welcome upper class people ruling, as long as they’re compétant and impressive people. These college students don’t strike me as either, at all.
@@Dude0000 Did I ever mention if living in Britain is good or bad? I pointed out that impliying that Britain insn't a dictatorship doesn't take reality into account. Talking about wether livin there is etter or worse than other countries is another thing.
How does this channel only have 95,000 subscribers when there are around 70,000 members of the Cambridge Union? Are we not sharing these with others? This channel should be up around a million subscribers just in the U.K. alone.
It’s not regarded by most U.K. citizens outside of London, to be as British as the United Nations. It’s merely based in England but has no connection with the country, or as much connection with the Brahmin class of India’s population, so not interested. It’s irrelevant to our lives and has less influence on us than ever. It’s lost its connection to British Values.
Well? What was the result of the vote??
Debate's Results: Ayes: 119 | Noes: 194 | Abstentions: 56 You can also find them in the video description
Lol boomer 😉
RIP UK (rest in pieces)!
Whatever you wish upon others, will ultimately happen to you.
@@worthlessdollar1 Nope, doesn't work that way. 😂🤣😂
@@stevejurgens9836 You aren't really laughing at all - it's *ridicule* that you're aiming for. The spite and mockery is derived from your own insecurities.
@@worthlessdollar1 No I'm definitely laughing. I really don't care about the UK though...
@@stevejurgens9836 You care enough to leave a vicious comment about the UK resting "in pieces". And you're insecure enough to keep liking your own comments.
Dweeb President reviews his notes during the minute of silent reflection on the gravitas of the day.
Hmm... You know, you could have commented without being insulting to Mr Bradwell, Knobhead.
1:04:22 *Julian Assange*
First speaker ist terrible, such bad argument and lack of substance. Second speaker was also terrible
Rube’s, all of you
A rube is a person who cannot spell "rubes."
@@johnsmith1474 Bravo!
@@johnsmith1474 indeed, most cannot be described as a ‘Rube’ because they’re not. They’re much worse…
Great Britain is a geographic location, not a nation.
It is the ancestral homeland of the British peoples
wtf