LPVOs are Bad Now
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- Опубликовано: 8 сен 2024
- noooo haha don't sell your LPVO to me for pennies on the dollar, it's such a good recce optic!
If you enjoy these semi-serious conversations between Hop and @BrassFacts you can catch them streamed live, or get access to a podcast version by supporting either of us on SubscribeStar.
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If you can make a good enough argument, you can make instagram gun people carry cap and ball revolvers
You don't need a good argument, all you need is a few people with a lot of followers do some marketing spin and all of a sudden everyone is falling over themselves to be just like that. It's like seasons of fashion for zoomer and millennial gun guys.
Challenge accepted
All you gotta do is slap a handrail onto something like that and it’s going to trend
People already are. The reason being to can order them to your house.
As a not firearm, I've heard of felons (ones who care about the law now) carrying them. Of course state laws vary and cops don't understand the law, so they're likely to get ground up by the legal system if caught still, even if they eventually get the charges dropped.
Hops gonna release his "Harry Potter and it's consequences have been disastrous to the human race" manifesto
He then proceeded to get an N Zapper and shoot up a virtual school.
I mean he would be correct to make that assumption. Look at how fast social dynamics and blind faith have devolved ever since HP was published.
I'd read it to see what's up lol
I actually want to hear it, sounds like a good time.
Get the man some cardboard boxes.
The real hot take: every piece of gear you're using has a downside, and what you're actually doing is selecting the downsides you're ok with.
That's why different products exist in the first place.
Bingo
This needs more likes
I love this,its how I get cheap parts and good trades at the gunshow.
Stop giving sound advice and just take advantage like the rest of us..jeez
Lol I got the sig lpvo on a rossi 22lr mlok lever action. It has a flashlight under, the lpvo, and an ammo pouch on the stock. All blacked out. It looks very very good. I'm hitting 1/2in groups at 60yards. It's overkill for my 22. But man I kill small game with ease. I haven't missed a shot. Took home 20 rabbits in a weekend with the setup at my farm. Yeah I know the optic costs more than the rifle but man it's a badass little 22. It's fun as hell
Excellent Analysis
Breaking news: People don't use their gear. They just want their purchases validated by youtubers.
(I agree with Hop and BF)
I think a lot of guys dress up their guns like barbie dolls. And maybe they visit the range once or twice a year, for a photo op.
Truest Statement there is! Buy gear use or not . If the LVPO is good great , if you don’t like , it is not bad , it is just not useful to you, just sell it to someone else.
It's a lot cheaper to just buy gear and pose with it.
I stuck with a Comp M2 or M3 (don’t remember which model it was) until my eyes developed a case of the 40’s and the dot became Hailey’s comet. Then I went to a 3x prism about 4 years ago and that’s what is on my rifle to this day. Same with “battle belt”. I saw the first one at a competition about 2015 where someone had a HSGI belt and loved it. Said it didn’t move on him and was comfortable and I thought hey, that’s a neat idea and bought one and some taco pouches. 7 years later still using it.
True they dont understand their gear but the good thing is they still don't understand it when gun tube moves onto something else so the good gear makes it on the second hand market too XD
i love how a community can spend hundreds (possibly thousands) of dollars on gear, never try it on the range, then says it sucks. Also some hardcore larping flags when you want a rifle that can flawlessly do both CQB and long range shooting. Your equipment can only do so much, what really counts is your training.
In my opinion, I think larpers sounds like a liberal term, because what you're describing is guys like me for example that know their shit, but we're searching for something that does all in one. I think maybe it's a consumer mindset society we live in, and we unintentionally close our minds and think, well gee, this is what I want and should be what might accomplish what I'd like in gear. I think the smartest most relieving term I've heard is "trade-offs". I've put hundreds of hours of research into calibers and optics looking for a middle ground. I'm aware of trade offs, but I think you know how it goes. It's a goddamn what if question!😂😂😂😂😂 I got thinking optics wise, it's going to take something computerized to do it. Fuckin Vortex comes along with that new scope. Lmao I think the only way to find out is to keep fucking around.lolololololol So It's crazy, but not so crazy is the best way I can sum it up.
Genuinely believe AR-15s firmly belong being set up for 0-300 yard engagements with the ability to be pushed to 500 if needed. Trying to set up a 5.56 rifle for predominantly 400+ engagements seems really silly
@@talltale9760 It's why I like LPVOs on top of short barreled 6.5 Grendels. I want compactness combined with the ability to reach out to at least 800yds.
For 5.56, I've been plenty happy with 1-4x or 1-6x LPVOs.
Everything changes when you step up into cartridges that perform well past 5.56 and still fit in an AR-15.
@@talltale9760 Fully agreed. And plan for your likely engagements. If you're 11B and your squad usually takes point, then probably stick to a 1x red dot to react to a near ambush easier. While the guys in the trailing squad should plan for SBF with optics.
I love seeing people's "home defense" gun have a 3-9x scope while they live in an apartment. That's not going to do you any good.
Realistically lets say something happens here. Most fighters are not going to walk through an open field unless you have to cross a powerline. In the woods most fights are going to be 75 yards or less. Realistically most times you can only see 50yds or less in the woods. On a power line or open field you would want an LPVO on a rifle 16" or longer barrel. In the woods or CQB in a city an SBR with a red dot and circle of death will be what I would want. Light weight, easy to maneuver, quick target acquisition. With the SBR, the only thing I debate is 9mm or 223. Trying to have an optic that is a jack of all trades is a pipe dream from what I see.
It's crazy how all these "social" networking apps has turned gun guys into gossip girls.
That’s exactly how I see it. All these guys showing off their mag pouches and plate carriers with brand and model and cut remind me of the people who show off their purses and designer shoes. Same with weapon systems and optics.
In all fairness, the gun crowd has always been fickle and all about the trends. We are a community of snobs
"Sheepdog" learn all his heroes like drama like everyone else
Turned? Like they weren't already.
The world is full of narcissistic people seeking validation from others. It's not any 1 community and no group is immune. Nobody knows how to parent and so we will always large swaths of kids who grow up unfulfilled.
Counting Coup refers to a practice where Native American warriors would troll the enemy leader by getting close enough to touch them with a ‘coup stick’ on the battlefield without actually harming them.
But how do I say it 🥴
@@Hoplopfheil Like how a pigeon would
Yea and I'm sure this really happened all the time and isn't stuff of pure story legend, because when you think about it it really makes sense huh?
@@007josiah makes as much sense as a Samurai doing a sudoku rather than be captured. People used to be weird about honor and stuff. Plus I think we still have the sticks.
@Hoplopfheil koo not to be confused with koom
Reminds me of how everyone was saying the Mossberg Shockwave was a useless piece of novelty garbage until Paul Harrel put up a video of him shooting like a total badass with it, and now everyone thinks it is a strong, cost effective role player in any arsenal.
In other words, we always hope to buy what can only be gained through hard work and practice.
I thought it was Rhett of Demonstrated Concepts that gave validity to shockwaves
Still don't see the point except as a good non-SBS breaching shotgun
@@DWalter.27 thunderranch was the first vid i saw validating the shockwave
@@hjorturerlend this is the purpose for it.
Its still garbage the way it comes. I put a brace on it and now its kinda viable, but a PGO shotgun is still garbage.
*Pats my carry handled gooseneck mounted aimpoint red dot optic* “Soon the circle will make another rotation, and we will once again be cool.”
Fashion is temporary, but style is forever.
Hop is spot on about Harry Potter, it's the same with social media and terminally online people. Things are either good or bad, and short attention spans/need for cheap dopamine requires this decision be made in the most cursory and surface level way possible
this the real point of the video. it is all about "good or bad, no in between". look at most user reviews 10 or 0. the "we want a quick digestible not need to think answer" has permeated into basically every facet of our lives.
Yup, as he said so many people are incapable of understanding nuance. I think this is just a general human behavior problem as it's something I deal with ALOT.
Yeah now we need just a fucking video about this breakdown.
@@uoislame And those reviews are often made with no experience with the product. "Just got this in. Haven't put it on yet but the packaging looks premium. Excited to try this out. 10/10"
I fail to see how one specific form of christian allegory is responsible for the downfall of western culture...
This shitshow was already on its way down well before jk rowling wrote her books. Id argue the ban on the manufacturing of 3 wheelers in the 80's marked a major moment in the downfall and brought the nanny state to the world stage. Politicians wives were able to control the world market...
“There are no solutions only trade offs.” - Thomas Sowell
I agree. You finally find a woman who loves to zuck your bick and then she cheats on you. There's always a trade off
Based
yup
LPVOs definitely have their place. I personally don’t have a use for one but that doesn’t instantly mean they’re bad. They truly shine as long term “shtf” optics due to not requiring batteries along with prism optics
Prism durability makes them King in that regard.
Vortex with lifetime warranty!
@Cameron E. In a true shtf situation your going to mail your scope back to vortex for warranty?
Song acogs don’t require batteries either.
In true SHTF people will go back to Irons and ACOGs take the lead.
This is your weekly reinforcement that the insta community never actually uses anything they argue over ever (and it applies to fucking everything in existence shown on social media).
For some reason, this reminds me of Tom Haverford on Parks and Rec when he doesn't actually eat the food; he just takes pictures of it to post to Instagram. That's what I imagine the Instagram Duds are like. Gun looks cool, post it on Insta. Never shoot the damn thing.
This aged well
LPVOs have come back to perfect and currently are back to dogwater. Tune in next week to see what happens!
Next week on insta drama: Running any gear at all is silly and stupid. Just run around in the woods naked like God intended
Hell yeah
Based
Return to monke
Did I just hear a banjo?
The best way to be immune to Instadrama is to not have an Instagram account. You miss all the pretty pictures, but you miss all the pretty BS too.
Also, "coup" is pronounced "coo" because French.
I have a lot of respect for the French, but where spelling and warfare intersect is near devoid of any of it.
@@SharkVsTree The French warrior class are actually incredibly good at warfare throughout history. They just seem to have continually reorganized society so that the fighters have to answer to the combat illiterates. The only real exception to this was Napoleon, who was a very skill strategic and tactical leader who simply committed the eternal blunder and got involved in a land war in asia!(russia)
@@privatezim3637 "French warrior class" hehehehehehe Napoleon's campaigns are about the only example of the French showing much capacity for warfare at all. Over the last century plus some, then skipping back a bit to the Roman conquest of Gaul, however... That said, they have certainly played a major role in technological advancements as applied to warfare. They're no slouches at creating the tools. It's the putting them to use they don't seem to be all that keen on. Not that anyone should be too keen about that.
@@SharkVsTree heard about a little place called Mali?
@@Oob144 Why? Did the French lose a war there too?
In cast anyone is curious, “Counting Coup” is pronounced “Koo/Kü”. It’s the name of the Native American tradition in which warriors demonstrate bravery by running or riding up to an enemy in battle and simply touching or tapping them with their hand, club, or bow (not killing or wounding them, just touching) and then riding back without being killed.
Those that made it back earned an eagle feather they could wear as a sign of their brave act. These would often be tied to their coup sticks or worn in their hair. So it’s vaguely similar to the idea in modern militaries of earning medals and wearing them on dress uniforms.
Exactly what I came to see. My tribe has this tradition and growing up I always lamented that I wouldn’t be able to be as badass as my ancestors. Still earned an eagle feather, just not by counting coup.
Thank you for stating this clearly, their explanation was painful to listen to.
@@michaelfarinola5044 It's not that they tried to explain it badly, they simply didn't know what it was referring to. Outside of the actual context, it is the same spelling as the word from French (for "strike"/"blow"), e.g. coup d'état. I did cringe hearing Hop say "coop" though.
who was the referee on this indian touching enemy? What if he pulled up 5 or 6 feet short and ran back to the village and lied?
@@expectmore- it was the eagle flying over the battle field.. after witnessing such an act of bravery the bird would follow the warrior back to his tribe and present him with a feather off his own back..
Make this a series, i.e. commentary on social media firearm hot takes (from within the firearms community).
it’s on their subscribestar
Hot take, RDS are overpriced, overrated gear that are only good as a backup to magnified or within 100m
@@BiigiieCheeese Ha ha ha! That really is a hell of a hot take! I will say that there is at least one Afghan family who would disagree. Using an Aimpoint CCO on an M4, I hit a bad guy at about 200-250 meters range.
@@bombfog1 500
@@nothim7321 what does “500” mean?
The people that come up with new things to gripe about every week or the same crew that put their Magpul flip ups on backwards and then when you point it out they say “that’s just how I rock um”
"I meant to do that"
Do you mean backward as in post in the back and the peep in the front, or just that they have them flipping the wrong way? Other than looking a bit silly, does that actually matter?
@@herbderbler1585 the rear aperture, yes kind of. The front sight I don't think really matters. I actually would prefer, if I used them, to put the front on backward. Takes up a little less rail, you get an extra inch of sight radius, the release is a little easier to hit... I don't see any reason not to.
@@BringerOfD Because if the front sight got bumped from the front (the only way it probably will be bumped), it should fold down. If you have it installed backwards, not only do you look dumb, but your sight will break when it gets bumped from the front.
@@herbderbler1585 you are exhibit A
World: LPVOs are over.
Rex Engelbert: Exist
World: Looks like LPVOs are back on the menu Boys!
Hop: "You can't monetize stock placement."
GBRS Group: "Wanna bet?"
I joined GBRS (on Patreon) for a month and realized quickly how stupid that was. 😐
@@The_Mechanic_Dad on staff?
@@The_Mechanic_Dad heard the training sucks when it comes to staff management a year ago.
@@doctorchaotic3415 Interesting. Hard to imagine they'd even hire anyone outside of the SEAL community.
On Patreon?
Have LPVO, love LPVO. Thank you for having this discussion and making the point that “people buy what the internet people say to buy” & “people buy stuff and then don’t train with it”.
Same as… wear a mask…
same, lol. does exactly what it needs to on my do a lot of things ok to good AR.
agree
I use a Primary Arms 1x8. Works absolutely perfect for me. I have been to multiple different advanced Rifle classes. Never seemed to be a disadvantage compared to all the other guys with Red Dots. I cant shoot you in the eyeball at 500 yards but can hit a torso at that distance with ease. No plan to change it out.
It's 1-8, as in One to Eight, not One by Eight (1x8). It annoys me to no end when people say that l.
I just bought the Primary Arms SLX 1-6x24 LPVO for my Stag 10. This will be my first civilian rifle and looking forward to better sights than simple red dots.
Yeah, all the red dot plus magnifier stuff is an LPVO.
@@olecranonrebellion9976 It isn't, for several reasons, but it can do some of the same things, just not as well. But most people probably don't have the skill to take advantage of the extra capabilities of the LVPO.
Trying to decide between lpvo and red dot for home defense. Any thoughts?
Some folks really do have too much time on their hands, not enough responsibilities and/or real problems.
This is trickle-down.
Another way to keep people unfamiliar with their own gear. Take someone who DOES train every day and fill their head with rhetoric like Hops talking about and see what happens to their skill.
Yeah some folks spend their entire life serving the needs of their bosses. No time for leisure for peasants.
My 3 considerations when researching to buy new stuff.
1) What's my end goal for this item
2) What features and details am I willing to sacrifice to get to that goal
3) What features and details am i absolutely not willing to compromise on.
Make a mental list of these and apply them when researching any new item.
Especially when it comes to more expensive purchases.. and i won't buy an optic having never before looked through the optic.
Failure to do this analysis and stick with the results are why we see absolute porker 'rifle builds' because the user is refusing to accept compromise and in the end is just compromising the practicality of their hodge podge accessory collection device.
@@randomidiot8142 “accessory collection device” hahaha that’s amazing
The best way to avoid drama is,
Avoid all social media and "news" media.
Psh I come from the drama to laugh that people spend their time caring about a "less" effective optic...
"No truth in the news and no news in the truth"
Especially this page.
I was happier not knowing the existence of gun insta trends.
Crazy what happens when people get out and train and use their gear instead of just letting their stuff be Safe Trophies 😂
You know people don't run their gear by how much stuff being sold on tacswap is "brand new only mounted"
French ww2 rifle. Never fired. Only dropped once.
I can only begin to imagine the amount of NVGs on tacswap that have never actually been to a range.
Seriously…
i buy all my brand new gear from tacswap and GAFS. they do what is practically a factory test fire and I buy it "used" for half the price!
I really need a long form video from Hop on how Harry Potter ruined Western Civ.
actually already exists. I filmed it like 2 days later while he was blasted while playing breakpoint
@@BrassFacts That is perfectly tantalizing...
@@BrassFacts Where can one view this?
If your LPVO is “worthless” maybe you don’t train enough with it.
I just run all my defensive guns with NO sights. No optics. When will you ever need to aim in such a stressful situation. Point shoot out to 700 yards. I carry binoculars as an edc for target identification.
I always say that if you can't shoot well with iron sights, you can't shoot at all.
🤣🤣🤣
I’m going to keep using an LPVO because it’s the easiest optic for me to use that can be magnified. I tried using a red dot and magnifier and all it does for me is make it harder to get back on target. I’d rather just have the one optic. For me as an out of shape civilian with no military training. I don’t think my choice of optic is going to be the thing that makes me less effective in a gun fight.
Also I like how they look vs red dots and for me that’s what’s important
LVPO can be use as binacolar to locate enemy.
@@rolandtimario2362 I used my Elcan to go bird watching :)
i have astigmatism so only prism and etched reticles are usable for me, thats why i like my lpvo
Same
A year late but spot on honesty, I like it!
Within the first minute you had me on the floor laughing, in all seriousness I still like my LPVOs, the whole “1x isn’t 1x” hasn’t really thrown me off, my NZ6 has it extra bad because it’s closer to 0.8x and I still don’t have much of a problem, the closest I’ve gotten to 1X out of an LPVO is the Atibal X 1-10
You also hit the nail on the head with the whole “positive or negative” deal, the world isn’t black and white, stuff has it’s ups and downs
A lot of people don't realize that you can adjust the 1x in using the diopter ring.
This is why I try to stay away from gun social media and Instagram especially these days. Lots of the community seem to really just be hypebeasts with untrained opinions that treat guns and gear like fashion accessories. It's total madness!
The only really downside to an LVPO is weight. But overall, I love them. They offer better ID at distance (1-6, 1-8, 1-10) VS a 3x or 4x magnifier attached to a red dot. Also, you aren't just stuck with a fixed 3x or 4x trigicon ACOG in a cqb scenario. LVPO has a fixed reticle, so the need for a battery is irrelevant or a failure in your electornics isn't a concern, which is always a possibility, and it's almost as quick as running a red dot.
Now that I can agree with the extra pound took time to get used to
Trying to decide between lpvo and red dot for home defense. Any thoughts?
What's so crucial is that you can run a lpvo with a dead battery in the daytime. Red dot? No! Only down side is the weight of the bigger 1-8 & 1-10. Red dot and magnifier any batter problems lpvo clear winner!!
Optic cant have downsides. Much like the user, it has to be perfect, flawless, with no cons in any way. Many such cases.
Yeah just like all the people that hit center mass at 1000 yards all day long. Already tan into a few people in the comments like this, we are surrounded by perfection.
Think you nailed this one. I laughed out loud when you brought up the ACOG.
It’s like when anyone claims anything is the best; my question is then “Best at what?” A hammer makes a poor screwdriver. I suspect people buy things before they have thought out the need/purpose/situation. At the same time we often have to experience the limitations ourselves before we understand the true pros and cons.
There was a guy in my store the other day pressuring my on what's "da best" which I told him nothing can be everything has advantages and disadvantages. Which turned into "if you could only have one" to which I responded that I in fact do not have to only have one and such a scenario is silly. Like you're a grown adult probably near retirement age and you still think like this.
No such thing as a free lunch. Mission specific
If I ever had my own gun shop I would have every gun that I sell an optic to where you could try it out before you buy it that’s one of the bad things about buying guns
@@shaggnar2014
'If you could have only one' is the situation the overwhelming majority of people live in, dude. And that answer is *always* irons. Broken and bent iron is just as precise as perfect iron. Say that for your busted glass. Ohhh, but Ive never heard of a broken optic and I know 5000 guys that did 6 deployments on one battery... also, the forward assist is a liability.
@@springbloom5940 LMFAO if you're using irons in current year
Jack of All Trades, Master of None sums up the LPVO
I went into this video ready to fight and was immediately met with laughter and I appreciate you guys lmao.
Love this discussion format. You guys have a good back and forth. On the subject of LPVOs and optics as a whole there will always be trade offs, I'm a huge fan of either LPVOs because they're the kings of the middle ground. A 1-8 can reach out to 1000m in decent conditions with training and a round with good ballistics but it can also be used in shorter ranges if required.
You are 100% on trade offs. All optics designs are compromises. A balance has to be struck between resolution, color, contrast, magnification, eye relief, weight, etc. No design is going to be perfect for all situations. With LPVO's I see a lot of people complaining about eye relief, 1x settings not being true 1x and fishbowling/pincushioning. The higher the max magnification is on an LPVO design, the more careful you have to be with the scope positioning on the rifle, the length of pull of your stock and the diopter setting. With the prescription of my glasses, I can never get "true" 1x without introducing fishbowling or loss of sharpness of the reticle. I can get close, but not perfect.
I got a Hawke Frontier 30 Tactical and honestly, for a "budget" LPVO this thing has made my Springfield Hellion more fun to shoot. The dot has a sort of imitation donut of death with some good mil placement and I was having an easy time on close-up targets even my longer distance shots felt more consistent. Gets a little fuzzy on the 6x and kinda as they said, it's not a true 1x but it's made for a more fun range day and I've gotten my money's worth.
@@MrReaper071 budget optics are fine as long as you buy them with realistic expectations. A sub $1k LPVO won't be as good but for range use or even occasional hunting they can be perfectly usable.
@@sacar8920 exactly and Non LPVO alternatives will also have drawbacks. ACOGs are tough and don't require batteries but they have terrible eye relief, are relatively heavy for a fixed magnification optic and require some bubba engineering to deal with reticle bloom on a bright day (covering the fiber optic with a piece of electrical tape to adjust brightness levels). This doesn't make them a bad optic it's just a trade off based on what you prioritize in your optic choices.
@@death31313 ACOGs' lack of an adjustable diopter is a problem for people with imperfect vision as well. I'm not a big fan of chin welds with top mounted red dots, either.
You are actually right. People don't want to think and differentiate anymore. They just want someone to say Yes or No / good or bad for them. If someone makes a review about something and does not say "go buy it" or "dont buy it" at the end, they just count up the pros and cons in numbers and be done with it. Same happens in politics. People dont want to think so they just say yes to what ever their party says and no to whatever the opposite party says, no matter what it is.
Remember, everything thing is either Good or Bad.
And in a direct conflict between 2 parties it’s always Good vs Evil no matter what. (I wanna cry)
This points out exactly my problem with the group that says, “only have one general purpose gun, buying different set ups is a waste of money that you should’ve invested in other gear, ammo, and training.”
It’s ok to have a long range hunting rifle, a home defense sbr/pistol with a red dot and magnifier, and a general purpose gun with an lpvo (or acog if that’s what you are into).
Home defense guns don’t need a lot of live fire training (i know it’s debatable if the budget allows), but training at home with a chamber flag is a must. Save the ammo costs and range time for the general purpose and long range shooting, but don’t pretend a 16in 556 with a lpvo is working as good at home defense as my 6in 300blackout.
This is why I always recommend people try guns out at the range and maybe weigh in what the influencers say a bit afterwards. There are some accessories that have a large bell curve in their usefulness and some do not. I always explain it as knowing your application, then finding what fits that application. Most good ranges have guns you can try with varying optics. This will help you decide as well. It's the same thing with all types of gear. Some people think you need the expensive pants, shirt, belts, etc. Spend your money on quality applicable gear, and the rest on training. After you put some hours in on your $150 Vortex red dot, you may want to look into something else, but most likely you will be glad you didn't blow $500+. I give the real world example of how when I grew up I had a Remington 700 22-250 with an 8x Redfield optic on it (missing a scope ring screw). I still have it and can still drop coyotes out to 400yds. I have trained people with $5,000.00+ rifles who can't hit steel at 200yds and get frustrated. You need to just shoot and train a lot. It carries more value than your gear.
@KingEbin that's not a bad option. Just understand that an issue you have with a cheaper optic (ie glare) may be non existent in the higher end model.
@KingEbin I've used 22 cal dedicated uppers to train with for CQB. Its a cheap way to get timing down as well as target acquisition. You really dont need anything more than a 1x optic for that. I like Holosun and Primary Arms for that type of stuff. That being said, the transition to 9mm or 223 and dealing with recoil difference will get your ability to stay on target sharpened. Bottom line is, depending on what you want to achieve ie plinking or combat, would determine what caliber you would want to use. I have no experience with airsoft so I have no comment for that.
I always wanted an acog and couldn't justify but if the market drops. You're doing the Lord's work
If you're not scuba diving to your shooting range or deer blind, Primary Arms and Vortex make great prism sights.
I have primary arms first 4x acog copy that has their acs reticle that trijicon now licenses for their acog
lol...good point...lets start shitting on acogs so we can afford them lol..#ACOGSARESHIT
@@thomassmith7451 no doubt but the acog is super nice to look through...shocking how good that glass is
I bought an ACOG liked it so much I bought one for my farther. Needles to say I am his favorite son.
I picked up a vudu 1-6x a couple years ago and it's still one of my favorite optics.
Though I feel when you push a lpvo past 6x you start accumulating more downs than ups. For me the biggest downside will always be weight, it's an unavoidable aspect of the LPVO. And everyday I use an ACOG, that LPVO feels a little bit heavier.
I think a 1-8x is still more of a pro than a con, especially if you get a really light weight one like the Nightforce NX8. That said even my chunky Trijicon 1-8x is still a pretty nice optic to use though the rifle I have it on is very lightweight so that offsets some of that optics weight.
1-10x is the most you should squeeze out of LPVO.
@@BiigiieCheeese does anyone make an LPVO greater than 10x? I've never seen one but I tend to agree. The 1x on a 1-10x is getting pretty sketchy at that point.
@@TackJorrance eh, the NX8 1-8x is only 17.6 oz or 1.1 lbs. Put an Aero lightweight mount on it and you step it up to 20.87 oz or 1.3 lbs. Its not as light as say an ACOG 4x at 15.1 oz or 0.9 lbs but its pretty close.
@@death31313 the number of people using that aero lightweight mount bothers me a bit. Honest outlaw managed to break one iirc.
I am using the Schmidtbender 1.1-4x20 short dot pm since 2007 until now. Way before LPVO becomes popular during these few years. It is still my favorite optic
I'm still struggling to replace my Trijicon TR24 after all these years
on 3-27-2023 Officer Rex Engelbert of the Metropolitan Nashville Police Department proved LPVOs arent THAT bad they are still kinda good
Stock placement was way more fun because it was much stupider and less serious lol
Post fizeek update pleb!
i dont remember that...what was stock placement?
Love my 1-8 FFP LVPOs and have no plans of changing them out. I train with them, they are quick to acquire, and versatile. All optics have imperfections of some type. Can't wait to pick some up at a discounted price!
Harry Potter did screw up the western world, like the way the world was screwed up by that guy that didn't kill himself in prison when the cameras went off conveniently. X)
I agree, I totally love my 1-8 LVPO, I have several 1-6 LVPOs that are awesome also. I really like primary arms ACSS reticle LVPOS but I have LVPOS from Vortex & Burris also. All are excellent, & are the best all around optics, in my opinion.
Trying to decide between lpvo and red dot for home defense. Any thoughts?
@@theflypilot Unless you have 100+ yard long house, maybe reddot?
Hands down, I would definitely sit down and listen to Hop rant about his esoteric conspiracy theories for an hour and a half.👍
I really want to hear more about this Harry Potter one.
@@JAREDGRAF8181 And honestly, it doesn't sound far fetched.
Thanks for the hard hitting reporting. I was just about to post my AR with a LVPO to instagram but I saw this just in the nick of time and avoided loosing clout. So should I go back to a red dot or do I need to at least get an EOtech to be relevant again?
Edit: On a serious note. We HAVE to hear the conspiracy theory on how Harry Potter destroyed Western Civlization!
You have to foresee the next trend. Thermal reflex sights maybe?
Harry Potter has zero moral ambiguity and taught kids that the world is black and white and you have to pick sides.
If we want to reverse the course of history caused by HP, we need to make everyone start reading Dune in school
Irons only
@@Hoplopfheil magnified iron sights
@@jshaw1503 1st or 2nd plane?
If I recall correctly, both of you have mentioned in previous content how lpvo is inherently a compromised optic due to their comprised requirement. I feel like the American consumers is always caught up in ‘do-it-all’ products.
No other scope has a requirement for a zoom ratio of eight to TEN for under $2200
Like this is 4-40x tier bullshit
Of course top end or bottom end mag will suck, even the razor Gen III is still not enough objective lens for a *10:1* zoom ratio
I don’t know about that. LPVOs fill a perfect niche for suburbs or light rural settings, where you are going to have a spread of distances 1-400m.
@@elkpants1280 the 24mm obj kills its light transmission, which can be a problem if you aren't on a flat range at 10AM -6 PM
@@DD-hz3ts that’s fair. That said one isn’t exactly going to be taking long range shots when it is dark out, and anyone with half a brain already has a weapon light.
@@elkpants1280 the point of the video and my comment is that it’s perfectly okay to use or not use an lpvo, just understand their limitations. When I say compromised I don’t mean that it’s useless, I’m literally referring to the requirements that people spout that they want an optic that’s good at both close and long range. Brass and Hop are saying test your gear and you might actually find out what works best for you not just what everyone says on the internet.
I bought a Vortex Strike Eagle a month ago and I love it. I put it on the gun that works for it, and I'll buy a different type of optic for other types of guns. Even my buddies get too caught up in "reviewer said thing so I am die hard for thing," and I'm glad I can just enjoy things for what they are
You guys really need to put these out once a week so guys like me who aren’t part of the cool Instagram crowd can get good deals
Hot Takeaway: Pretty sure Harry Potter is to blame
Thanks for introducing the concept "low contrast language" to me. Instantly loved the phrase.
That stood out to me as well
@@joemorris6465 stood out like a high contrast target.
The responses to this are more positive then negative, therefore this is an objectively good concept and i will use it everywhere.
Today I learned I’m not an extremist, just a basic high contrast bitch.
We need more hot takes from hop. Call it HopTakes.
On the next episode of “welcome to the internet” 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Everyone need to keep in mind that the whole industry is wanting to sell more product.. So what we end up with is more and more RUclips-social media channels reviewing products that were sent to them, or given to them, to insure a good review or steer others in a direction to buy the newest greatest thing... There are still a few good youtubers out there giving solid advice on very basic setups, Rifles that work, and optics that are proven. Try to see through the smoke and BS.. Buy what works for you, buy what you can afford, get proper training, keep it simple, and pray the shit never does hit the fan.. Great video.
I'm right handed but left eye dominant LOVO have been a life saver for me. The issue I have had looking for an LPVO was the reticle selection. I've found a red dot and magnifier also help with my vision issues.
I have the same condition man good to know that LPVO's work for that
@@SHOTRED555 the red dots to me look like stars and the LPVO being magnified corrects for the astigmatism
@@abell4785 Its not the magnification that negates your astigmatism. Its the fact that the reticle is a real object and not a projected point source of light. A 1x prism optic will also negate your astigmatism yet its not magnified.
Would a prism with a magnifier be a good option for you?
@@smokingcrab2290 I like the old Burris 3x prism just not the reticle, ACOG has been great anything with no horseshoe is what I prefer.
Just use what you’re comfortable and proficient with. Period.
But then you'd have to go outside and use your gear
That's not talking shot on Instagram bud
*Laughs in Nashville Metro Police Department*
I'm essentially a gun newbie, yet even I had the sense to look through the burris rt6 I just bought at 2x and 1x and decided real freaking quick I'm going to need an offset red dot. The amount of people that don't think for themselves in many matters is worrying.
For what? Close up shooting? You're going to look through a tiny window instead of your main optic's bigger window to sight in on a fast moving threat at stabby distance? Just look OVER the optic and point shoot at the target a few feet away, it's not hard
@@evocati6523 or let him do what he wants since we live in a free country douche bag.
@@evocati6523 magnified optics dont have a window they have an objective and an exit pupil which is often times less than 10mm when using a LPVO. not to mention they have to be lined up with each other for it to be anything like a "window". something tells me you have no experience with any kind of scope or red dot
@@JTTTTT850 hes not really wrong... theres no need for an offset red dot for close range. Ive cleared buildings with just an acog and with enough trigger time you shouldnt need sights inside 20-50 yards.
@@g00gleisgayerthanaids56 I'll say that using magnified optics for close range like that makes me dizzy as all hell, even LPVOs on 1x leave me dizzier than just using a red dot.
It's why if I'm going for a ranged optic, I go with an MPVO and an offset or piggyback red dot. Better range abilities and close in work doesn't make me dizzy as shit.
This absolutely just needs to become a podcast
A quick peek at the description may just grant your wish 😉
LOL, this was hilarious. I so funny how people follow trends with little to no thought about what they are doing. I have been using LPVOs for longer than the term existed. It started for me when I played with a browning 12ga slug gun that had a Weaver V3 on it (about 2004-5). I was sold, and it became the standard for me, for anything that needed to be lean & mean, but still have a little reach.
Then Weaver release the 1.25 - 4.25 (I think 4.25) 30 mm with lit dot. Despite the weight creeping up a bit, still very practical.
Then they exploded in popularity, everybody started making them, and of course they became more feature rich (and even heavier).
Hopefully people figuring out they are not perfect, will lead manufacturers to maybe offer some simplified (lighter) versions. But of course it won't. Instead you will see them add adjustable objectives, laser range finders, and cappuccino makers to them.
Every style of optic has downsides and strengths, thinking which strengths are good for you and which downsides you're willing to accept for those strengths is much harder than just getting what the hivemind says is the good choice.
The theory about rating things is solid. A friend once said to me, "The great thing about Ebert was that he'd help you know whether *you* would like them," even despite the stars and the ratings. He hated Blue Velvet, but it was pretty clear from the review that I'd love it.
I started thinking about putting a EoTech and magnifier because I actually understood this because I train with my kit lol. But now that this concept is making people lose their minds, I think I’ll stick with an LPVO to stay away from Groupthink 😂
yup...
Ive been using a holographic plus a magnifier. Unfortunately with my eyes the holographic sight on 1x or red dots in general just simply don't work for me. So I am forced to use the magnifier to use the sight effectively.
Judging from what I have been reading, people with eye issues like mine get better use out of an LPVO.
@@Michael-ex8lk My aging eyes only allow me to use a LPVO these days.
Good Video guys. The industry needs to understand pros and cons. Keep up the good work. LPVOS are not dead but people need to be educated and know the downsides. Thank you for the kind words mean a lot.
The industry understands, people that don't larp or train just watch videos and that's it lol.
They will be dead in the next few years.
LPVOd have 2 downsides that I haven't been able to overcome: they're expensive, and it's hard to find good comparisons
In other words: I can only afford to buy one, and can't figure out *which* one
@@cymond Burris rt-6 is sold. Viper pst gen 2 is the next step up. Razor gen 3 if you hate money
@@cymond ... I 've had an Burris M-Tac on my longsword for years and have been very happy with it.
Started with a red dot, then switched to a couple of primary arms prisms. 3x on a 16” and 2.5x on a 10”.
Got an 18” and put a cheap 1-6 vortex on it.
Switched the 16” and 10” back to red dot with magnifiers and traded the 3x to a buddy for some goretex. Wasn’t long after I started missing the 3x prism.
Started thinking about another prism for my 16” …was torn between another 3x or 5x as well as primary arms vs sig, I really like the “shake awake” option on the sig but ultimately the more “proven” record of the primary arms recticle won out and I ended up with 5x. It’s on my go to rifle. Having used all these different set ups it is my personal favorite. But I don’t think any of the others are wrong lol.
I like PA Prisms too. Just pick it up and range the target within the optic without breaking your grip. No zoom adjustments to tinker with and no need for an external magnifier.
After the recent school shooting, LPVO's are a thing again
Everyone knows red dots with magnifiers are back in style.
Oh hell ya
Everyone knows enclosed pistol red dots on your rifle are the true shooters.
At least they have their priorities right; style is all that matters.
Did you also notice how in like 2019 when canted red dots started becoming popular, people refered to top mounted dots as a relic and now it switched again and people say how much more versetile they are?
Also also, Honest Outlaw just released a video titled ''Kahles K18i Review: Finally A 1-8 Scope That Can Do Everything'' which is just freaking hilarious.
I remember the meme from 5 years ago about people putting mounts on carry handles with comments like "don't need no cheekweld".
This just validates my choice to buy a burris pepr mount.
Though now I do have the desire to grab a pair of trex arms' offset mounts.
Carry handle optics: garbage, too much height over bore.
Skyscraper mounts, especially used by people without nods: the most tacticalist thing evers.
@@ALovelyBunchOfDragonballz carry handle optics are thr sexiest shit on earth and I will die on that hill.
I use a top mounted red dot on my scoped AR. alway have
*Nashville PD has entered chat
I love my acog 🤷♂️ Very unlikely you’re going to find that one piece of kit that does everything perfect
I agree with you however you have to think about finding that one piece of equipment that is useful for 95% of situations in a realistic real life scenario.
For me a holographic sight or a red dot is useful for 95% of situations, where as a magnified scope is only useful for a few very rare and circumstantial situations. How often are you going to need a magnified scope for if the crap hit the fan or for home defense almost 0% of the time lol.
Having poor I relieve slow acquisition time and other issues is not worth the trade-off.
Also only training with one scope is a lot smarter of an idea instead of using multiple scopes and never mastering any of them.
@@MobileAura Personally I would disagree with that you can train yourself to be better with a LPVO or an acog training is the most critical aspect arguably More important than gear selection
I don’t personally own any LPVO‘s i own two ta-31 acogs 🤷♂️
Agree I'm a whore for a good ACOG with a offset red dot it's always gonna be superior in my mind. If I need to reach out to 500+ meters I'll use a legitimate rifle scope, but that's just me.
In the Midwest it's common to have a 300 yard sightline. Out here, lpvos make a ton of sense for non self defense rifles.
Inside my house: red dot all day
@@gbear34 inside your house id argue sights arent even necessary, close range point shooting just comes with trigger time, its like throwing a baseball or shooting a trad bow.
I would LOVE to hear how Harry Potter novels ruined Western Civilization.
First of all they depict women being allowed into institutions of learning.
Guntubers are most guilty for the trend chasing in firearms. They need to produce content. The manufacturers love it
I like LPVOs for target ID just like a magnifier. Everything has a purpose. Nothing is free. Everything has a downside.
I think what we're witnessing is a shift in the industry. It happens in cycles, and if you're a 30 something, you've witnessed many. Conflicts dictate tactics in the civilian community. Given the average engagement distance in the current conflict, it's intrinsically had an effect on us larpers. Content creators attempt to stay relevant by predicting trends. Many people are seeing the shift from these cqb rigs, to more spr/recce setups, and content creators have adjusted. The majority of people I nteract with in the industry have all prepared for the shift. A few guys I know that work in optics development have been focusing on that 2-10x optic range. A few guys I know in the manufacturing aspect have started to vamp up their 14+ to 18 inch barrel lengths, etc. All it takes is for a prevalent face in the community to acknowledge, then shift, and the entirety of the industry will shift accordingly. It's all about that recce rig bois, we've came full circle yet again. So get on them 2-10x optic train because the pricing will inflate shortly.
I think 4-16 with a piggyback rmr is the real next trend. 2-10 makes sense but people already have lpvo so they are going to trend to a little higher power since it's something they don't have.
@@LyleH-13 most of us have been piggybacking for a decade. Every magnafied optic I own has a piggyback rds, and has since mk12's became popular. What I mean is between 5 and 10 years ago everyone ran as short and light as possible. After the eotech diabcle everyone decided to move towards a lpvo. Garandthumb single handedly brought eotech back to life, and since then we've had this recce/cqb variant setups. We all recognize that cqb is extremely limited circumstance, but given that God forbid we ever use our firearms as civilians, it will be in a cqb circumstance in our home, so people justified the intrinsic desire to obtain cqb variants. More people have begun to focus on this shtf, wrol, civil conflict, civil war rig. It's what the majority of people are discussing, and what we're seeing in Ukraine. People are starting to learn the limitations at long range with a cqb rifle, are infinitely worse than the limitations at close range with a DMR. This, compounded with a litany of other reasons is why we're going to witness a revitalization of the dmr. I think that optic manufacturers have aided in this by making optics that are 1-10x. People that generally can't afford a 1-10x have settled on a 2.5-10x, and its aided in this shift in the industry. Prioritizing cqb with the option of long range is dead. Everyone desires to prioritize long range with the option of cqb.
Glad to hear my 18" will be back in Vogue again soon. Lol
You think carry handles and A2 front sights will become a cool kid option again? 🤔
@@stove22 the only reason people focus on a 3-15x is because of funds or limitations in the market. The mk4 is sht, and overpriced. Nf 2-10x are impossible and people that desire a quality 2-10x have settled on a vortex and just spray painting to hide it, inflating the pricing. You'll see optic manufacturers catch up; we're already seeing it, and start producing more quality 2-10x. People will stop settling on a 15x optic when there are lighter options, that will do virtually the same thing. 10x magnafied optic is perfect for the AR platform. 15x is too much. Some people that prefer the AR10s may stick with a 15x, but I can guarantee that the only reason people are purchasing a 15x is because of availability or pricing. If you like NF, but will never be able to find a 2-10x, you will settle on a 3-15x, VS purchasing a vortex. If there were more options, and there will be, the 3-15x will die imo. This coming from someone that runs a 3-15x in virtually all of my SPR's, and only does so because there is zero availability for a quality optic in a 2-10x.
Considering weight and bulk attributed with mvpos, I'm in no hurry to bench the burris rt6
I think a lot of people in the gun community just don't recognize what a purpose built weapon is. I think people get hyped watching GarandThumb videos and never realize that they won't need 99% of the equipment he reviews. I also understand it is fun to try and build a general purpose do it all rifle or a SHTF rifle but also recognize that every piece of equipment you choose to use will have ups and down. I also have a buddy that put it in a good perspective for LPVOs; don't think of it as just 1 a times reticle for CQB or a 8x or 10x or whatever for long range. You can have 2x or 3x target definition and PID depending on the situation. Magnification can be the difference between telling if someone is holding a phone, hammer, or a handgun.
Do you actually use your gear? I do and my lpvo is either at 1 or at max zoom... nobody is really using anything in between and you seem to be trying really hard to make up a story to fit.
@@thomgizziz I do actually, for more than just plinking which is probably more than you can say. I get it bud, flat range... you only need to run it at 1 for your 10 yard target and then max for anything further. Some of us actually have to train shoot or no shoot, some of us have to hold points on a house let's say, and no, sometimes one or max is not the answer. Also sorry you have no friends to share stories or train with.
There is no end all be all rifle optic. You’ve got prisms, battle sights, red dots/holo sight with magnifier combos, and all manner of unmagnified optics. How good you are with whatever optic you choose depends on how hard you train. If you can’t/won’t train pass the downsides, you’ll never take full advantage of the upsides and you’ll wind up being a loot drop to someone that has.
Amen
I've ran LPVO's since 2013, back when we just called them 1-4's. Still like them general purpose.
Even for home defense?
LPVOs have their place and are amazing for mid range engagements. I feel like the argument is based on CQB. Obtain and train with multiple setups and choose your kit based on the type of environment/application you're going to be working in. I use red dots for CQB and I also have an LPVO for mostly everything else.
I've ran my LPVO in mid to short range courses and even when confronted with a close engagement, you really don't even have to rely on optics to hit your target.
To close my comment out I must that I bought an ACOG and immediately sold it. ACOGs are buttcheeks.
The fads in the gun community is like being back in high school. Run your gun and quit worrying about what other people say and see if your setup works for you. “The Grandest Thumb in the land said 14.23 inch barrels with honey glazed on them is the best gun in the land so I must buy it.” If I were a gun company I would literally pay the biggest gun guys to say that “X” gun is the best to get rid of old stock. Sheep…
Hop, please start a channel for your esoteric conspiracy theories
Know i NEED to know how Harry Potter is destroying western civilization and corrupting our way of life
Nashville PD be like hold my beer.
I'll hold their offset ACRO P2s if they want
Used the SIG whatever LPVO at their academy and figure out it wasn’t for me.
Running around Georgia undergrowth hunting hogs, figured out a ACOG RCO wasn’t for me.
Red dots are good for now, but as I get older they’re ‘blooming’ more and more.
May go etched prism at some point and that’ll be that.
Let purpose (and your limitations!) drive the set up, not internet dramas.
That's what I liked about the LPVO, etched reticle. And haven't tried an ACOG though
Great video. As someone who does not have a lot of experience or thousands of $$$ to try a bunch of different things, I will watch tons of different RUclipsrs on a particular piece of gear, then make ,hopefully a good one, my choice. I do not shoot thousands of rounds but just like to shoot, and have something with a little more capability if I need it. So for me the LPVO , with its faults, is the best choice for me.
Its the best for long range plinking or for home defense?
Lucas Botkin can say 6 shooter revolvers are better than Glocks and suddenly everyone’s selling their Glocks to get revolvers. I don’t think the problem is the IG personalities…it’s the people that blindly follow. Who want someone to make up their mind for them and not use their own head to think about their own needs and it makes this industry kind of weird
i think we just witnessed the tactical community's first gear "short selling" market manipulation
First?
This is why I stay off of social media most of the time. LPVO works just fine for my uses. Got a canted sight for close up, so the not 1x doesn't really bother me.
I’m late into all this LPVO thing. I got the Strike Eagle 1-6x early model, but I hated the reticle; put it away. Then the Vortex PST 1-6x has far better glass, built the AR gave away very good parts. I needed something better in the power range, the Vortex PST 2-10x FFP/MOA with parallel adjustment. Perfect! For my 71-year-old eyes. 308W AR.
Yeah the Strike Eagle reticle is chunky... If the horsehoe and dot were a bit thinner... Got a 1-8 and it's fine.
Oh man, the insta tactics super operator crowd are going to be mad about this one. Maybe this means I'll get some nice cheap lpvos that haven't seen daylight since their last Instagram Cameo.
Exactly my thoughts
I love the LPVO my biggest issue is the battery life , I want to get at least 1000 hours run time on the medium setting but if I don’t I’m ok because I have the etched reticle
One thing that is not discussed is light transmission/low light use. ACOG 4x is brighter than naked eye, but all LPVOs I've used are somewhat dimmer at 1x and GREATLY dimmer at 6-10x.
Adding an offset rds give fast cqc and nvg usability, if you have that.
Hop, when and where will you be releasing your “Harry Potter ruined the human race” manifest? I’m here for it. It seems like it should be a must read.
Oh I wanna read/hear this.
I'd be down for an hour long rant. Love that shit. Hop ranting for an hour is just a plus.
I’ve always loved rds and magnifiers for what I do.
No one tosses an optic on their weapon and never looks through it/shoots it and says "this is fine, I'm good". Cause the first thing you gotta do in order to say ur setup is ready is zero that optic and run it through some drills. Most people figure out of something is good for them or not when doing that. And no one just jumps on trends when influencers drop them in the gun world. We weigh the pros and cons based on the review and make our own informed decision.
The zoom on Hop's face when he dropped the mag 💀
Its not only that, it's that he realized he brought 5.56 mags to a 7.62 AR range session
PAIN
Old eyes here. I wanted an EoTech, but saw 6 dots instead of 1. Went with a Trigicon LPVO because I can actually see the reticle. It's great.
Same here. Aging eyes with astigmatism. I’ve tried red dots and green dots. I need magnification of 1:6 or 1:8 with a circle dot. LPVO is the way to go for me
Yep.
Even with glasses correction for astigmatism, I still can't see shit through irons at 125 yards.
I'm not a fan of LPVOs in general but I got a screaming deal on a 1-6 VCOG. It's probably my favorite optic on my favorite rifle now.
@@phantomspaceman same