Simon Jordan Claims It Could Be SEVEN YEARS Before Man City Are Punished For Any FFP Charges! 📆🤯
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- Опубликовано: 29 ноя 2023
- How long could it be before Manchester City are punished for any FFP Charges? talkSPORT's Jim White and Simon Jordan discuss.
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I was under the impression this case couldn't go to the CAS because this was the PL's personal rules, nothing else? I've read that they cannot use that as a route of appeal, so, that's removed from Simon's timetable. I quote:
"However, it's already been confirmed the Court of Arbitration for Sport (CAS) will not be an avenue for appeal on this occasion. City previously had a two-year ban from European competition successfully overturned by the CAS in 2020 after UEFA charged the club with breaching its FFP laws."
Yeah that was exactly what I read when it came out, I don’t know wtf Simon is on about.
And Simon Jordan thinks the premier league isnt corrupt 😮😅
How is this corruption? Lack of strength or incompetence, perhaps. But what is corrupt about taking a long time to see justice?
Its complete dollars for donuts
First peanut thought in his head and he types it 😂
😂fake charges mate
It works within a known set of guidelines.
If it is as corrupt as you infer, for whose benefit is it corrupt ?
Simon gets all giddy at the thought of Man City being relegated.....Jordan's hatred for City is so blatantly obvious !
Imagine disliking a cheat 😮
Most people hate a cheat...especially at sports. And that's what City are, cheats.
He's not saying anything but the obvious.
We all hate city ,everybody
No serious football fan respects cheats
The Sheik will be pouring £££££'s into delaying this. Guardiola said he would leave if they were found guilty, now he's changed his mind and decided that he's stay in his £19m per year job even if they are in the Championship.
Who would reject almost £20m a year?
Yea we knew he was full of it when he said it. He just wants to pretend like he had no idea what they were doing even if the whole world knew they were cheating.
@@rLxJakeit isn't proven
@@sammypie5501 yea your right but I guess gravity didn’t exist until newton proved it….
@@rLxJakeThere was actual evidence to prove gravity exists the only evidence you have is heavily doctored emails and the word of rui pinto, wonder what he's been up to hmmm oh wow 377 charges relating to hacking Benficas email OH YEAH CLEARLY A CREDIBLE NON BIASED WITNESS IF THERE EVER WAS ONE
Simon is wrong, the case can’t go to CAS. He should know better.
What's the reason? Genuine question
Should they need to, City may well explore further avenues, although they would not be able to go to the Court of Arbitration for Sport, where they successfully had their UEFA-delivered Champions League ban overturned. @@djsteves554
@@djsteves554 as per premier league rules, which all clubs sign up to as a condition of being part of the premier league
But what about supreme court?? That's a different game totally.
There’s literally no point discussing this as we all know Man City will get away with it.
Get away with what? Prove that there's something to be getting away with first.
Chop chop
By spending their own money in the business of football , rather borrowing money with interest like Man U .
@Beyond_Belief534 Were you born a vegetable or did it just happen over time?
@@farlawson1706 nah, every penny that has been spent at manchester united has been generated by the club itself... the club was even used in a leveraged buyout for the glazers.. you're talking utter rubbish man
@@farlawson1706Try researching better
In seven years city will be part of the European super league!!! 🤚🏼
I now see how Simon put palace under while he was there. His arrogance, ignorance & lack of self awareness is mind blowing.
you said it man
If I was being charged with something I would want my lawyers to drag it out as long as possible to build the best case possible.
That’s exactly what they are doing. They know they’ve done wrong so it’s now a case of whether this lawyer who they are paying £80k per day for several months now can get them out of it.
@@alistairsmith5389 just because they a building a defence is not an admission of guilt. If you walk into a court you'll want every box ticked. I dare anyone to do the opposite.
What it Simon on? He’s portraying the date as if city have selected it! It hasn’t the PL & city have agreed the date parameters together. Simon always refutes he has an agenda against city and then makes blatantly one sided statements against them. Agenda alright!
He's saying it because citeh have been refusing to cooperate by handing over documents etc. Innocent people aren't afraid of transparency
No innocent party would have their name dragged through the mud for as long as City have. They’re guilty and they know it.
that is why they are dragging it out
Nonsense. They have had significant charges levied against them and are mounting a significant defence.
The pattern of criminality manifested by fraud is incredible.
@@environm3ntalist549tell me about their defence? What is the innocent explanation for them dragging this out?
😂😂
How long did it take for Everton, who worked with the PL and admitted to wrongdoing, take from start to finish for 1 FFP breach? 6-10 months right? City deny wrongdoing and are fighting 115 charges. So are people logically trying to suggest that it should take the same amount of time to try and render a verdict for 1 charge (with cooperation) as it would for 115 with no cooperation? Seems silly to think, let alone expect that
Having looked at 'some' of the evidence, they're snowed under with paperwork. 1 particular charge alone currently has 30,000 pages, and it's increasing. The financial gymnastics are staggering.
Not a fan of city but Everton pleadead guilty city taking it too trial
You're not understanding it properly. It took the Premier League 8 months to work out what punishment to give Everton. Simon is talking about an actual court. A court would not take that long to rule. Everton were left waiting by the premier league as to what their fate was.
Everton haven’t been charged for FFP we’ve been charged for a minor profit and sustainability rules breach which is different to financial fair play.
Everton haven’t left teams unable to compete or cheated we’ve simply lost money as a business that’s it
@@theblues8840 Umm you do know the Premier League profit and sustainability rules are FFP right? they renamed FFP to Premier League profit and sustainability rules aka PSR
As a complete neutral, could it not be that Man City would like the case done and dusted quickly, but that they have been put in a situation where they have to go through a long protracted process to prove their innocence ?? it will all come out in the washing is my final verdict as I am already really fed up hearing about it, and according to SJ it could take another 7 years 🥵🥵🥵
Not at all, Man city have shown before how good they are at disrupting and delaying tactics. They have all the money in the world so are quite happy to play dirty. Of course this obviously makes them look guilty as sin but they won't care aslong as it isn't made official.
Nope they are delaying at every possible stage. Not the actions of an innocent party
never, the longer the better for city as it will cost the fa a hell of a lot of money
@@philbarton2832 imagine fighting for the integrity of the last 10 years of the club that you have put hundreds of millions of £s into. You’d be fighting to show you’re innocent too. We’ve been charged so at this stage we’re going to spend everyday making sure we have all the evidence to show we’re innocent
@@Jadck92 I wouldn't have cheated in the first place and my business would be ran legitimately.
Man city under this state ownership have been found guilty of corruption on more than one occasion in the recent past and now this. The premier league and it's members are sick and tired of man city's constant scandal's so want rid of them.
You're not cooperating that much is clear. An innocent party cooperates fully and swiftly.
KLop has spent Over 800million plus. wheres that money comming from .. as a club the was rescued from adminstration not so long ago......that a bit bogy hay...
fool, sold players and winning everything
@@trevorjoneill707Man said winning everything 😂😂😂.. God help us if winning 1cl ,1 fa cup, 1pl and league cup means winning everything in 8 years 😅
@@GermanChickenwing😂😂😂 his a clown
@@SiyabongaSibiya-pj9gb Shiteeh are cheats end of
And this is why there success is not respected like the great teams before them.
Everyone knows they are just delaying all this and throwing money at courts. Untill this is resolved no one cares what they win
Our success is respected even MORE because of these outrageous allegations have been put on us completely unfairly. We are working under impossible circumstances yet we continue to win trophies. That’s special and the footballing world knows it. We are fighting with two hands tied behind our back yet we won the treble. Disgusting from the PL and remarkable from City.
@@skacel7Wow is that take ever wrong. You might be right from a City fans perspective but not from everyone elses. It appears that City have been cheating and the length of time that this is taking just makes them look even more guilty.
😂
@@skacel7😂 ok mate 👌
@@skacel7 come off it mate. I’m a city fan too. I’ll have some of what you’ve been smoking, our owners have unimaginable wealth, what we have done is impressive if innocent but our integrity hangs in the balance. If found guilty would you still support? Would you go to league 2 games? Get real and see that achievements on the pitch by unbelievable all time greats could be diminished by shoddy ownership
It's not going to happen, our Chairman Khaldoon Al Mubarak has said we are not guilty of any wrong doing!
you dont know that and of course you cant rely on your chairman sod what he thinks 115 charges dont come out of thin air. City have not been transparent with there audits
your chairman??????
FFP is actually unfair and promotes and benefits only the top teams
How so?
Pep 100% is in on it too. At barca he would have known about bribing refs too. The chelsea semi final proves it and more games.
They were bribing refs before he was even a manager at Barcelona. All those league tittles he won at Barcelona are fraudulent
Course he is. I'm sure he's getting some Saudi sponsorship deals, or Dubai houses under the table
@@matthewjamisonwell his brother already made money from the girona deal..they're all snakes
Agree. Their money will ensure lots of appeals and long long ones at that. EPL might not have enough to challenge
**PL*
If you can't get the name of the league right you don't get an opinion.
I think it's more of a possibility that the pl will look to get as much as they can. City have financially doped their way to trophies and hurt so many clubs whilst doing so.
@@kunimitsune177 EPL = English Premier League.
😂 You plank.
The idea that the accused should want to resolve things quickly is absurd Jim- there’s something called planning, knowing and figuring out star witnesses and figuring out how to attack the prosecution main points or witnesses- in fact the further cases drag the better for the defense that way you can even cross examine memory testimony. Just because your defending don’t mean you have to try to figure and solve things quickly- I am Liverpool fav btw so Jim you sound delusional suggesting city should choose speedy trail
Also too: this gives them; more:
time, to: potentially; enJOY their success' and win; even:-
more:_ trophy's??
They've already said they want a quick resolution & assured the fans they have the evidence in hand to refute all the charges.
Simon, it’s not just up to City with regards to the timeline. Why you refuse to acknowledge that is beyond me.
He is wilfully ignorant
As wilfully ignorant as MCFC are guilty of 115 FFP breaches. Allegedly of course.
Except it is because they've neen delaying and obfuscating at every opportunity. If they were cooperating it'd be done by now.
@@kunimitsune177 you’re just regurgitating what Simon says. It has no basis whatsoever to reality. If the PL had evidence, they would have taken City to court.
Be free to hold onto Simon’s biased opinions.
@@juliusoba6488 they do have evidence hence being charged
Looking like a massive error of judgement by the Premier League Clubs who are grasping at straws because they cant compete with Man City .Its very likely that whilst the City Case drags on for years more Clubs will be found to have financial irregularities in their accounts during the last decade .This is going to be very damaging for the premiere league .
115 charges is not "grasping at straws".
Man city are in major 💩
- City cleared of wrongdoing by CAS
- LiVARpool found Guilty of Hacking
- PL/Media/Establishment question City,never LiVARpool
- Not allowed to call PL/FA Corrupt?🤔
Everyone is accountable to the rules regardless of their table position.
cheats cheats and cheats 115 times this is not complicated
Well here's a question Simon. How long did it take for you to take Palace into liquidation?
we all know that when you have enough money , the law won´t touch you and justice will not exists
It’s a strange one this . Say it takes until 2030 as Simon suggests and in the meantime city win another 5/6 PL titles and another 1/2 CL trophies. Pep will be and rightfully so regarded as one of the greatest managers not just to manage in England but anywhere, the city players will have been part of one the great sides but what about Liverpool, Arsenal and other teams that finish behind city their players and management miss out because the club they were at didn’t cheat ?
You're clearly an expert, please elaborate on executive how it translates into an advantage on the pitch. Everton pleaded guilty to over spending on players, like other teams are guilty of. Yes, I'd call that cheating. City aren't even accused of that. 🤡
It's not a trial because it's not a legal matter. Stop misleading people.
At most there will be a *hearing* - to which they may not have the right to appeal because, again, it's not a legal case (and it's NOT going to CAS, Simon).
pep has turned man city into another barcelona, he is the only manager where getting rid of world class players is no big deal, for both.
Hahaha 😂 😂😂
What a JOKE !!
CITY are literally laughing at ALL of us because if this isn't CORRUPTION then i don't know what is !!
Why did Everron get punished so quickly ??
Oh i forgot Pep said its completely different case !!
LMAO 😂😂😂
Surely you can work out the amount of so called “charges” will take some substantial time to investigate where as Everton throw the towel in and pleaded guilty at the first instance
@@Paul_Greenwood_ whatever helps you sleep at night...
@@Mohammed-dy6xb looks like you’re wound up tight mate. The boy who cried caps lock wolf
By the time the decision is done MC would have won probably 6-7 additional trophies!
It's gonna be a pisser when they beat these horseshit charges. I can't wait. 🤣👕🏆🏆🏆🏆
We’re as innocent as OJ hopefully we’ll get the same verdict too b
Lmaoooo
By the same rule, if it's cut and dry why aren't the FA wanting it in court next week. Because there unsure what to do now😂
because they are being paid off to delay!
@@Footballer85749 what a load of nonsense 😂😂 you have no proof or evidence to say something as stupid as that. If that was the case they'd Definitely be wanting to get them charged for bribery
@markharris8922 exactly what guilty people say "you have no evidence..." enough said!
@@Footballer85749 🤔🤔not hard to understand, NO evidence is NO evidence
@@markharris8922 NOT hard to understand people with the defence of "no evidence" as opposed to they are innocent is a subtle admission of guilt. Cheaters aren't respected.
We're going to win two more Prems by then. Talk about making history!
Tainted history that's all you will remembered has
Why can’t they start handing out the punishments for the closed case breaches 🤷🏼♂️
Jordan really thinks he knows it all. He's out of his league when it comes to manchester city...
New Gordon Ramsey show featuring pep & the gang cooking the books
Simon Jordan everybody “if city believe they are innocent they should plead guilty like Everton because the process happens quicker”… this man is living proof you can say what you like with the slightest hint of eloquence and people will lap it up.
Why does he keep saying this like city are already guilty just because he failed to run a club doesn't mean you can throw stones at the best run club in the league
I love the Premier League, but this is poor from them. Life goes on...
Innocent until proven guilty only applies to questionable clubs willing to play questionable players
In this case it's based on probability not without reasonable doubt .
City can’t appeal. Its a private court
They can sue the Premier League clubs they can sue masters for having Private meeting with red top clubs they could i guess go after looserpool for industrial theft of scouting data.
Then the so called media hope city go after them
How Simon know that MC would be found guilty?
the bold incel liverpool fan shared the emails with him
jesus Talksport your REally Gunning for ManCity, WE would that FA are planning to look at the rest off PL sides.For example LIverpool ,Arsenal, Chelsea,SCUM M UTD etc.....oh AND Tottenham...and others
charges going bk so long just shows that people havent been running the game properly,any issues in the game should be sorted out within a few months not wait 10+ yrs then start trying to throw the book at teams,spurs unlicensed agent charge i think goes bk to about 2009 its stupid.
For me this Simon Jordan is corrupt how d hell he is giving clean chit to Manchester city
If they have anything on city - it should be pushed forward and dealt with asap not in years. If have nothing then move on
The longer it takes the harsher the penalty IMO
Seven years?!?! TOTALLY FEKKING UNACCEPTABLE!!!
A money feast for legals.
What good comes out of it?
Everton break 1 ffp rule in 2021. Man city have been breaking ffp rules since 2003. Which is now 115 ffp rules. Why is it taking so long to get man city done
They can’t use CAS like they did with UEFA
I think they are guilty of not all the charges but definitely some of them surely
The premier league is no longer credible even in Italy because of City's No FFP
I am a Law student and can tell you now Simon, you are 100% wrong and I know for a concrete fact there are cases even today that do, have and will continue to go on for years. 115 charges is a extreme amount of investigating that requires legal teams, maybe even government regulators to go through each and every one to be absolutely sure they are even able to stand in a court room, if it even needs to go to a court room or if Man City are guilty of all of them, several of them or none. That process can take more than years, it can take a decade. There are people in the UK who are still waiting to stand trial and haven't been before a judge prior to their initial hearing several years on since their arrest or alleged charges. This could be due to a lack of evidence, specific requirements that have not been met or they're simply on a long waiting list where other cases are a higher priority. In fact there are people who have spent 20+ years in prison to be found innocent because new evidence has arisen and proven so. This whole Man City situation to be rushed in 6 months is not how you conduct a proper investigation, it's not how the legal system is run this isn't an episode of CSI Miami where it's all sorted in 40 minutes. If we did everything this way virtually everyone innocent would be banged up in prison, while all the guilty would just roam the streets over he/she said. When you have this many charges against you, which will likely see government regulators who have a billion of things to be doing come in (they should be), and the potential to make the wrong decision which impacts every other team in the league, yes it takes years.
Well you being a law student is irrelevant because this has literally nothing to do with the law and is not a legal matter in any way.
Not as smart as you think you are eh.
Assuming they'll even be found guilty!... They seem pretty confident!
But if they were "pretty confident" of their innocence, (with as City claim, to have proof of that innocence), then why aren't they pushing for a quick enquiry now?? I'll tell you why - because they're guilty AF and they know it!
@@gillie-monger3394.....no, YOU want them to be "guilty AF". Enjoy the long frustrating wait quivering with anticipation, and when they're exonerated, get back on your keyboard and type out plenty of apologies including the word SORRY.
MUPPET.
genuine question - why are they not simply providing the evidence to the prem, clear their name today, and not have this whole dragging out process, costing the club millions in legal fees and having their name dragged through mud and have pep lose even more hair having been asked about the whole thing every week?
@@samwize28 Simple - they know they broke the rules. Anyone who repeatedly states they have proof of their innocence would be pushing hard for a quick hearing to clear their name. As for costs? Millions, even billions is chicken feed to a club owned by a oil rich country.
@@samwize28 it's quite simple really... They can't just "provide evidence" to questions they haven't been asked......its called defending yourself from future accusations, only answer the allegations you have been a accused of..... and nobody has actually made any yet, apart from kangaroo courts from morons on youtube! 😁
Man City,have done their best to delay and delay the courts.But Everton has taken much quicker.I don’t like the talk of not doing anything wrong,but don’t want to go to court.
What do people not understand about innocent untill PROVEN (by the premier league) guilty
Yeah no. That's exclusively a concept for LEGAL matters, which this isn't. It's about protecting people from prejudicial prosecution. It does not pertain to private or civil matters. This is why you can be fired if your boss suspects something, whether they can prove it or not.
@@kunimitsune177considering they are being accused of fraud and witnesses for their defence at CAS are being accused of perjury yeah it’s legal 🤣
It would seem you don't understand. Premier league don't have to prove without reasonable doubt , it's based on probability. Also now it's being referred to the commission man city now have to comply Because they didn't with uefa
7 years before they are punished, ehh....not 7 years before a conclusion...no punished
We are helpless.
If I were the rest of the prem I would refuse to play potential cheats!
The are about 5 real charges epl created 100 fake ones so that is can get the hype
**PL*
If you can't get the name of the league right you don't get an opinion.
5 'real charges' repeated over many years, thus making the bulk of the 116 charges.
FFP rules are damaging the sport ,
Innocent team should be never fined. New FA, PL management is needed as the current one is ruining PL, shall be renewed. Shame on England.
hear hear
Man City are certainly not innocent lol
Can't take it cas Mr Jordan , get your facts right
Surely it’s up to the FA to set the date of a hearing not City’s
The "FA" have nothing to do with any part of this.
Nothing to do with the FA though
The PL, you mean?
If that's the case, per the heading. Then they should be relegated to the NW Counties D2!!
Biggest cheats in the history of football
Love this , it’s a burden hanging over the club. The longer the cloud the better. They’ll eventually be punished for cheating.
City should be suspended from the Prem until the verdict is agreed on! That is one way of getting them to stop stalling.
They won’t be punished. There is no legitimate evidence.
You don’t read do you ?
Judicial system strings everything out to absolutely fleece people
What we talking about here?
Simon is usually on the ball, but he's off the mark here. city can't go to CAS over this and Simon should do his research.
more then half of the claims are in the bin anyway there is literally a hand full considered for court action and believe me man city have the best lawyers on the planet so will almost guarantee that there will be no charges brought against them
Like a criminal who knows the system and says No Comment City have got away with this. There will never be a points deduction for them. Both in politics and sport some individuals or businesses are too big to be taken down.
If a criminal waives their right to remain silent and answers no comment. It’s highly unlikely that if they’re guilty they will be found innocent solely on ‘no comment’ grounds
So nothing then
2030?!??
Could do another treble by then!
COME ON CITY!!!! 🤣🤣💙
😂😂
And we'll pass the scouser's European record by then too! 🏆🏆🏆
Oh no the bin dippers are going to be boiling with piss and flood our socials again..lol
Winning anything whilst cheating is like winning a game of fifa against a toddler and then celebrating
@@JMEcooper if that makes you feel better mate.
I don’t think any City fan is bothered you know just going and having a good time enjoying the journey.
Just let the plastics in the comment section argue between themselves about cheating with their finance degrees and experience within football………
Doesn’t matter if City are found guilty or not hahaha you’ll all think the same so why should we care? 😂
Don't you mean if found guilty you nob.
Simon = Top LAD Proper Clobber 💯 Facts
Probably more like 700.
Who said cheats don’t prosper?
Have to be guilty to be punished 🤷🏻♂️
2 years
Simon looks like he took a xanax this morning Wtf 😂
How surprising
Oh how has Simon got City innocent already? Lol
Trial Being set for 2055. verdict most likely 2085
7 years, my ass 😂
The Premier League have made some serious and inflammatory accusations, and in contrast to the opinions of those idiots who would prefer a Kangaroo Court, Manchester City have the absolute fundamental right to defend themselves as they see fit. The Premier League have also delayed the whole process by citing the alleged misdemeanors in such a convoluted manner. In reality there are only 6-7 charges, and some of those have already been dealt with by UEFA and CAS.
City are so innocent that they've refused to co-operate and provide evidence of their innocence. Peculiar tactic. It's like pleading the fifth, yes you can do it, but it's not a good look. That refusal to co-operate and provide the documents requested is a breach of Premier League rules in and of itself.
As for the overturning of the UEFA ban, that was because of technicalities, not that they didn't break the rules. UEFA has a five year statute of limitations, the Premier League does not. UEFA has strict rules about sources of evidence, the Premier League does not.
City are screwed, all they're doing is kicking the can down the road.
@@creepingbrain Except that City haven't refused to cooperate, but you carry on believing the clickbait drivel.
@@creepingbrain City's charges will be dropped immediately once the case goes into a proper court of law.
@@anshumansahu1087why?
@@Surveillance-Ys If you are interested in facts (Real legal facts not like these people who play to the gallery) then I will share all the links of legal evidence with you. If not then don't bother replying.
I thought City cant go to court with the case?Just shows alot people have no fking clue whats going on
You can appeal to any higher court
@@robertmclellan3658Apparently y'all said we can't
They can’t appeal to CAS. Simon got that wrong.
@@robertmclellan3658but you can’t go to CAS
@@environm3ntalist549 But they can appeal to any higher court plus what has not been mentioned is the Statute of Limitations.
Corruption.
Simon has already been found guilty by Simon its out of city hands it up to the lawyers now😂😂😂
Date oencilled in by simon jordan. What a charade
Thats because they have money get away with everything all wrong should be punished like everybody else
A failed football club owner talking about how a PL club should be run. He doesn’t have an idea the magnitude of this case. You’re a PE teacher and a United fanboy crying hard to get Man City punished.
He isn't a utd fan, bore off
If this happens and they are found guilty then I seriously hope they get every title stripped from them. Guaranteed if this was a team of no significance it would be sorted before Christmas.. but because city have infinite money it will blow away like everything else. I wish they let these clubs do a super league. Fed up of seeing these clubs cheat there way to success
Never cheated if man United and Chelsea spent more. Also haven't been found guilty. So you basically fed up of man city winning.
@@raphaelcharles5538Man city have literally been found guilty of cheating before 😂
Cheat ? Man City are teaching the rest of the league no all leagues how to play football. Football is better in every team in the premiership because of Man City. Me personally and I am not a Man City fan thank City for making the Premiership the best league in the world.
What a league we have It's brilliant and so enjoyable, every team is improving. Well one or two might not be ( no teams mentioned )🤔
Never gonna happen !!
No titles will be stripped no points deduction NOTHING. !!
Just a slap on the wrist and a petty fine.... just like last time. !!
@raphaelcharles5538 so why did you temporarily get banned from Europe and have to pay a chunky fine???
The whole football community in this country is following this case. I see relegation the likes of a black hole looming
They are following it, you're right. Despite the influence of a media in complete ignorance of the facts, they'll just have to wait for the process to run its course.
One thing is certain, thank god there'll be no jury involved.
If they are not guilty Why not get on with it ? The fact that they want to drag this for so long they are guilty as F*cked
Only fools rush in.
And only fools have an opinion without knowing the facts.
@@rogeredmunds5806And only fools Refuse to acknowledge that they have been hit with 115 breaches. And only fools refuse to acknowledge that they were lucky not to get banned from Europe due to statute of limitations.
read my first quote
Nieve beyond belief .
Sim😊n if they are guilty .