The German yelling audio clips are from Call of Duty 2. There also seem to be some noises from the LEGO games. Interesting that Jones' revolver is a Webley, which he was only seen using in Last Crusade, whereas he uses a S&W M1917 in almost every other appearance.
@@m0skaudancer What are you talking about? GZDOOM supports reloading; if the maker of this mod wanted to add a reloading mechanic they could easily have. See Brutal Doom, as a pretty major example.
The beginning song is also from ANNO 1503, title being 'Raindance', only remixed and extended. Honestly impressive they can take a half minute song and extend it so heavily.
the doom modding community is so big that I can't even keep up with everything coming out despite being pretty active at looking and playing mods new and old, I had never heard of this mod until this video
At this point, I just keep tabs on what the MegaWAD of the month club is playing and the Caccowards. The community was already super active, but post-Doom 2016 there's SO MUCH SHIT to keep track of.
Yeah, I'm the same with Thief 1 & 2 fan missions as well, still the community keeping games like these going with their own content is part of what makes these pretty fun
'boomer shooter' as a term feels memey, but thats not a bad thing. its shorthand for a subgenre in a way 'retro shooter' doesnt quite describe. 'retro shooter' could be like, anything from doom style to xbox 360 style or something, retro is such a broad category now. boomer shooter evokes a really specific era which helps.
It is memey, but I'll admit it's pretty catchy. It also appeals to the average brainrot afflicted internet user who believes anyone who is even a minute older than them is a "boomer".
I hate it. I just call them Doom Clones. Be that clones of OG Doom or Doom 2016, it works and sounds less like a normy Twitter description of the subgenre As a zoomer that's been playing OG doom and WADs since I was 13/14 , calling them "boomer shooters" feels derogatory and no amount of irony has really changed that for me. It'd be like calling traditional RPGs "old asshole RPGs".
I’d hesitate to call the 7th Gen era “retro”; they’re too old to be recent but they’re too new to be *that* old, if you get what I mean. As for potential other terms for “Boomer Shooter”, I’ve got a few of my own: Wolfenstyle DOStyle FPS Senior FPS Classic FPS
1:55 I don't remember Indiana Jones _mowing_ down people, like by the hundreds..." What, you don't remember when Indy condemned the Kali Ma guys to all die horribly or when he shot all those Crystal Skull guys dead for how negatively received the fourth movie was? This is a Tuesday for him.
"Prepare to meet Kali IN HELL!" Nah but for real, it's just like Star Wars or Superhero movies: hundreds of people die, but it's almost always bloodless/off screen so it's fine.
For me, Doom is one of my all time favorite series and it was a huge part of my high school years. I enjoy each main line game for their own reasons. I remember when Joel played Doom 3 he was surprised by how "Doom" the game still was with fast movement and the ability to bunny hop. I think Doom 3 starts out slow but about half way in, once you have all of your weapons it's basically Doom again, I mean, if you can circle-strafe around a group of mancubuseses' while unloading your rocket launcher into them, it's Doom. As far as Doom Eternal goes, I enjoy it for the fact that the power fantasy comes from the game requiring you to get good at it. The game puts you in the shoes of Doom Guy (he will always be Doom Guy to me), it gives you all of the tools you need to be the bad ass over-powered marine but it's up to you, the player to bring the skill. While Doom 2016 is over all a much easier game, I won't say it's an absolute cake-walk but the power fantasy of it all is much less... earned on the player's end. I love both games equally for different reasons. I love that neither game takes themselves too seriously, in fact that was the main appeal of 2016's Doom. Like, there's a serious story happening around you, people are dying by the thousands and the lore is extensive and you're free to scroll through it at your leisure but as far as Doom Guy is concerned, "Where are the demons and where are the guns?" He said without actually saying. But yeah, I agree with Vinny about classic Doom, the community is so insanely talented and is still strong as ever even after over 30 years! Get yourself a copy of Doom 2 on steam or GOG, it's like 5 bucks, download GZDoom, Maybe ZDL, a program that makes loading mods much more simplified and organized, and just browse around the various communities, watch Icarus Lives or Gman Lives, two youtubers that have tons of videos on interesting and fun Doom mods and who both decidedly live apparently. You could potentially have enough Doom to last you the rest of your life and also your kids and grand kids! You could pass down a portable hard drive full of doom mods like a family heirloom lol!
Those people are correct. Especially since Romero and other OG id staff actually worked on it. No shade to Tim Willits or second gen id mind you. I loved Quake 2's single player years before nightdive remastered it and everyone suddenly loved it too after years of crapping on it. I'm just saying, it's way closer to the OGs in so many ways.
@@Xetan123Canonically, it's weird and up in the air, because both it and Final Doom end on the same note of the Doom marine entering hibernation in hell to ensure he can be woken up if the demons ever invade again. Generally people do place it after Plutonia, but it's uncertain.
@@skullkid692 It's not "bad," but it's also nothing special. Not something I would say someone should go out of their way to play over any other doom game or even a lot of other FPS games at the time.
My problem with Doom: Eternal is that it kinda throws away what I thought was the PERFECT atmosphere and feel of the 2016 reboot. Minimal supporting cast, concise weapon design and balance, perfect gameplay loop of shoot demon, punch demon, repeat, rip, tear, repeat. Eternal just kinda muddled all that and added too many layers. I get why people see that as a positive, but it's just not for me. But hey, I also prefer Left 4 Dead 1 over 2, so what do I know.
I think I recall Yahtzee from Zero Punctuation getting mad at the term 'boomer shooter' because of the actual meaning of 'boomer' being misused in it. I personally don't care if it's called boomer shooter or whatever, as far as kids are concerned anyone over 20 is a 'boomer'.
Boomer Shooter is an easy term, as you say, it rolls of the tongue and it's pretty clear what anybody means by that name. I prefer Retro FPS as a term, but it's less of a cover-all - Return to Castle Wolfenstein, TimeSplitters, Medal of Honor etc. could all be considered "Retro FPS". I propose we call them "iddqd-likes".
SPISPOPD-Likes I generally go with retro-FPS or doom-clone/modern doom-clone, because even if it is marketable "boomer shooter" just sounds derogatory. Doom-Clone is like Metroidvania: it started derogatory but since things like Build Engine games, Hexen/Heretic, Marathon, Dark Forces, Outlaws, etc. get classed as them and it's such an old term, it's more endearing to me than "annoying old person nostalgia FPS"
Couple of people here have said roughly how I perceive 'boomer shooters' but for me, I think of the guns in these games. A lot of them *love* to use really powerful guns that define a lot of the gameplay. The Super Shotgun, Railguns, Dynamite to name a few examples.
Turok 2, Serious Sam, Painkiller, Rise of the Triad, and Build Engine games in particular come to mind when I think of crazy weapons in old school FPS games. Doom 2016 and Eternal add some wackier shit to the Doom arsenal (especially with weapon mods) but the former examples are hilariously absurd. Still don't like the term boomer shooter though.
I didnt know the "doom eternal bad cause marauder" beef was back, the general consensus Ive always seen has been that eternal was better than 2016 and that's the camp I stand in. If someone doesn't like it though then fair enough. pretty sure the minority didn't like eternal, though I mean both are great games
I hope maybe one day Vinny checks out some Quake mods like Arcane Dimensions, Alkaline, or Re:Mobilize. Quake has a decently active mapping and modding scene with some very high quality content
The doom thing is just whether or not one is a purist and what means to be a doom game. I remember 3 being touted as "just as innovative and technologically advanced as the og doom" and wanting to be a tech display just how ogdoom was impressive programming. I am not a purist and my favorite doom is 3, eternal does feel like a Mess of features and it does break the "flow of doom", eternal is the one doom that had you running backwards instead of forward, but that's because I'm terrible at eternal. But even brutal doom is frowned upon in some circles, so I have no strong confusion. I feel doom is whatever you want to be, as long as they have demons and double barrel shotgun, I think it's doom enough.
I don't get the Doom Eternal hate at all. I loved it and played the shit out of it. It had a fun pace and combat was very adrenaline heavy when paired with the music.
Doom Eternal's mechanics are more complex then most shooters, almost to the point of being like a Character Action game. I love it personally, but I get that some people might prefer more straightforward gameplay.
Doom eternal was cool but it didn't have the same atmosphere that doom 2016 had. I didn't love the arcadeyness of eternal either, and imo marauders ruined the power fantasy of doom
@@TheMistaWatersThe atmosphere and arcadeyness was my issue as well, fine with marauders. Also, the constant need to pull out to do traditional cutscenes, 2016 did so much with everything from a first person perspective, and I didn't care for them ditching that.
@@ev_artwork6443 I can respect that take, even if I disagree to some extent. I personally liked the arcadey nature of it, much more over the gameplay of 2016. Marauders were annoying, sure, but made up a very small part of the game, so I didn't mind. The cutscene stuff was fine to me. I don't really prefer either over the other when comparing with 2016 in that aspect. I do like the presentation in 2016 a lot, though. As much as I resent Id software for how they treated Mick Gordon, I prefer the music of Eternal over 2016 by a lot. It's clear that he went out of his way to make it great, and I respect him greatly for it. He used a wider repertoire of sounds and moods this time around. It's sad to see this working relationship tarnished, I would've loved to hear his sound in potential future installments. If I were to replay one, I'd choose Eternal every single time.
@@habama1077 And that's perfectly fine. I do ultimately disagree on most points as well. Honestly opposite, I prefer the weapon balancing in the original, I prefer the music in the original. Honestly I was disappointed they felt the need to go back and redesign the enemies to be "classic" style, I quite liked some of the weird choices they made, Mancubus in particular. Also, at the end of the day, it was trying to tell more of a story, and that story for me got in the way, felt it had to overexplain things. '16 gave enough information to let you fill in the gaps, and it worked better for me. Just note nowhere have I said Eternal is a bad game. But once I beat it, I never picked it up again and likely never will, while I go back to 2016 every now and then because it is one of my favorite games period.
I wish there were more games about fighting Nazis over mythological locations or items as the Nazis, or at least Himmler, were a little obsessed over occultism. Aside from this, some Indiana Jones games, and how Uncharted 2 features Nazis who were trying to find Shambhala, I can't think of anything.
I mean, that's literally the entirety of Wolfenstien. Just don't play Youngblood. Also more specifically, Himmler was a literal Norse pagan and he and Rosenberg integrated that into the parties ideals. Hence all the nordic runes and stuff like the SS having their own marital rites. The rest of them were Fedoras. And this still holds true with most modern WNs. Because "opposition to violence" and "empathy" are weak or something, christianity bad... except for Positive Christianity, but that's a different can of worms.
@@warbossgegguz679 Momentarily forgot about Wolfenstein, but that said, I want more. It's a fun setting with how barmy the Nazis were when it came to the occult.
Wolfenstein Old Blood, Wolfenstein 2009, I think Return to Castle Wolfenstein, are great in that regard-- Seriously, they're really fun. Old Blood is snappy, doesn't take itself too seriously but seriously enough, has some wonderful spooky atmosphere, great locational variety. Wolfenstein 2009 is also really good in my opinion, it's different, but has that whole supernatural angle to it, worth hunting down a "copy" as it's abandonware if you catch my drift. I haven't finished Return to Castle Wolfenstein, but on my list, seen a lot about it, a lot of fun supernatural weird tech seems like (there's a fan mod on Steam if you own a copy called Real Return to Castle Wolfenstein RealRTCW that can work as a good source port for easy install/use and tweak stuff depending upon how original of an experience you want)
Sadly with todays political climate that would be way too divisive. The last Wolfenstein game got review bombed for it, and people did not take kindly to the newer COD games and Battlefield 5 returning to ww2 either. I just don't understand it.
Despite some of its hollow-sounding gun effects, I really like Doom 3. It was the only Doom game that actually spooked me and made me feel the horror of a demon incursion.
"People disagree with me REEEEEEEEEEEE" I love all doom games (except 3) but the people getting actively pissed and defensive over the ONEGUYs saying "Eternal bad" is just as cringe. Especially when there's like 20 comments kneejerk reacting to it vs. like 3 dudes taking that stance.
While I liked 2016 AND Eternal, I do wish they stuck with the almost horror-esque aesthetic of 2016 for Eternal. It’s not bad or anything, it was just a little jarring in the moment.
My issue with doom eternal wasnt the complexity, but more that the complexity starts to take away player agency of weapons and enemy interaction choice as the game goes on, which is kind of a core mechanic I enjoy in shooters.
To answer the question about terminology: I don't care, call it boom-shoot or whatever. I tend to go with "old-school" personally but that's just what I'm likely to say.
I classify boomer shooters by the level design relying on keycards and the high speed of the player and the simplicity of enemies. A lot of people will equate boomer shooters to graphics alone which i dont really agree with. Like, games taking from half life i dont equate to term boomer shooter.
This looks pretty awesome, especially for like a solo first time total conversion project! I want to love Doom 3, the feel and look of that game is great. BUT, from the moment the demon invasion begins all the way up to I think Delta Labs, the game feels padded and paced like a fan mod where they placed enemy spawns into (almost) every single room and corridor, behind every door and a trigger to spawn new enemies behind the player as well at almost every step, that it just becomes too repetitive and almost a bore of a chore. Forget controversies over the flashlight or the shotgun or the player movement speed, that game needed a strict editor to cut things down, actively remove enemy spawns (& pickups) to make sure there was better paced atmosphere and tension in encounters. I remember forcing myself to play it all the way to the end, it seriously started to feel like 50% in the middle was done in like autopilot mode, but once you arrived in Delta Labs, either they were done at a very different time in development, devs had got back from a vacation or just different devs worked on them, or they were done first, or maybe last after learning everything and it was mostly polishing or something left, I dunno, but I sat up and perked because in Delta Labs forwards suddenly things had proper pacing again, demons weren't just rote spawning in because there was a door you could walk through, also weirdly enough music for the first time? And the H*ll levels I think came around that time too, very cool. Game needs a fan mod to straight up delete a bunch of enemy spawns/triggers and pickups from the middle section, then it would be almost perfect. (Call it ironically "Directors Cut" lol) Prey (2006) is my favourite of the idtech4 engine games though, less Doom 3 more Half-Life 2, but really fun creative setpieces, portals, gravity changing walls, swapping between forms to pass through different obstacles, vehicle section with a gravity gun type thing even, but really good shooting and alien weaponry and AI even and fun looking levels with goopy flesh walls and decent story and campaign that doesn't overstay its welcome. BTW, Retchid is a cool indie FPS trying to do something a bit like Doom 3 but even more survival horror in some ways, it has literal save rooms and no quick saves, a lot less linear, more traditional metroidvania/maze level design than Doom 3. it just got released into Early Access though so not done, Episode 1 got released. Doom Eternal to me was good in many ways, but I feel like the levels went too long and were too intense, I needed a days break after every level almost, dread to think how the DLC would feel like. Still a good game, but I have been soured over the Mick Gordon/Marty Stratton controversy and feel icky going back to it.
@@warnegoodman All things I also really liked about D3, like I said I want to love it, but frustrating pacing for a huge middle chunk-- It's weapons and feel and enemy roster and look, and the interactivity stuff, the whole intro and I think the end chunk from Delta Labs forward, were all pretty fantastic. Vinny saying he never finished it makes me think he also just got bored somewhere around the hugely repetitive bloated middle chunk of enemy after enemy spawning around every corner, and never got to the better designed places like Delta & H*ll. Dead Space was in many ways a better Doom 3 than Doom 3.
Doom as a horror game is a cool idea... and that's exactly what Doom 64 is. Doom 3 tries to take the Half-Life/Halo approach to narrative and atmosphere and it doesn't really work. Especially when the occasional spookiness of the OG Doom games came from the labyrinthine environments that you could get lost in or stumble into creepy shit (or a Pinky that's directly behind you but not attacking you until you turn around because their AI and hitboxes are braindead). Doom 64 takes all of that, but then shifts the atmosphere with the lighting, music, and monster designs to be extremely eerie and unsettling while keeping the gameplay loop the same. Doom 3 just transplants the environment and concept of doom into a generic cinematic "horror" atmosphere which ironically (outside of a few jumpscares) makes it way less unsettling to me.
@@warbossgegguz679 I don't really agree-- Sure, Doom 64 people love that, not going to argue with that, but Doom 3 has relatively few "cinematic" elements, the cutscenes get few and fewer beyond the start of the demon invasion and they are like 30-90seconds long, like Doom 3 might have fewer & shorter cutscenes than Doom Eternal even. Doom 3 is a lot of "tell don't show" where you mostly hear radio chatter and audio logs instead of watch a ton of cutscenes, most cutscenes are maybe at the start or end of a level, and that's it, very few scripted scenes in the game, it's really a lot of stuff you hear while walking through levels with never-ending enemy spawns monotonously being thrown your way at every step. Doom 3 would have honestly even benefited from more cutscenes! Something to break the monotony of nonstop enemies in your face: "Oh I walked up to a door opening it, and now the 6th imp was right behind it jumping at me, who could have seen this coming? Wow, I'm shocked, and look at that, another wall that looks like a fake wall, I bet it won't open the moment I step into this hallway revealing imps & zombies, that wouldn't happen like it has happened for the last 27 rooms & hallways I've been in." It's kind of the issue some other games have had, like Alien Isolation. Alien Isolation kind of throws the Alien at the player too much, and it loses some of the tension and scares, it becomes predictable and rote-- when being more unpredictable, where you can't predict with 90+% certainty that the alien (or demons in this case) will be right there with you at every step would help create a uneasy atmosphere. If Doom 3 had less constant predictable enemy spawns at all times, where you don't know when the next imp or zombie jumps at you, and you had better paced downtime where you can just walk, stop, look at the cool dynamic lighting/shadows and densely detailed scifi cramped submarine-esque facilities with a lot of animated machinery and humming vents and stuff, just moments where you can immerse in that dead base on Mars, forget demons just for long enough that the next monster closet becomes a genuine surprise, would add to it. It's something that could be doable, with the right tweaks. I really don't see "cinematic" having anything to do with it, the game barely has the typical "cinematic" hallmarks.
@@nathane5287Oh, mind you, I'm not saying it's GOOD at imitating Half-Life, Halo, or MoH, but that's just pretty clearly what they were going for... but id's design team was full of Doom/Quake mappers so the environmental storytelling is non-existent. It's basically dooms level design slowed WAY the fuck down and made more linear. Ironically, Doom 2016 is WAY better at Half-Life style story telling despite the radically different game design (though not as different when compared to stuff like COD, MoH, and Halo obviously). Doom Eternal... had a bit too many 3rd person cutscenes and sequences imo, but still decent enough narrative that doesn't come off like a cheap sci-fi novel from 60 years ago.
Brad Shoemaker made a really good point on the name boomer shooter once, saying that boomer shooter’s are too cool to be associated with the generation of assholes who tried to take these kinds of games away. I don’t think anyone cares really about the name, but I thought that was an interesting point.
Personally, Eternal is my top shooter and 2016 is probably equal to it. Both games are so different that they stand alone as greats. I would have loved them to alternate styles on future games.
Doom eternal is my favorite doom game. Something about having to keep track of so many different resources (the fire, the ice, the ammo and which weapon addon to use) while fighting is super enjoyable to me. I wonder if eternal will be remembered fondly in the years to come or if it will remain a black sheep for many doom fans who prefer older dooms
Doom-like doesnt fit every boomer shooter, though. Dusk is more Quake like, Amid Evil is way more Hexen/Heretic (which you could argue is very doom like), Ion Fury is Duke Nukem, Project Warlock is Wolfenstein 3D, etc... Plus, I think Boomer shooter is a much better descriptor for these games because the genre has evolved so much in such a sort time that calling them "like" the game that inspired it is kind of a disservice. Stuff like Ultra Kill, Postal: Brain Damaged, and Turbo Overkill are so far from their roots that it would be difficult to say it even remotely resembles doom or even the games that inspired them, but all 3 are still considered boomer shooters
@@internetnobody6754 Back in the 90s, the term doom clone wasn't relegated to games that didn't use polygons or have vertical aim. Heretic and Hexen both had vertical aim, as did RotT and Marathon. And all the Build Engine, Slavedriver Engine, and Jedi Engine games had vertical aiming and vertical movement (jumping). Likewise Doom clone was applied to shit that was as simple as Wolfenstein too because that's just HOW BIG Doom was. It was/is an extremely broad term because it was just what people called FPS games for nearly half a decade. This all ignoring the fact that Quake and Quake 2 are themselves derivatives of Doom in terms of game design. More importantly however is that in modern times "Doom-style" design encompasses both the 4 OG games AND Doom 2016 and Eternal, which effectively negates the whole semantic argument about verticality and polygons. ... But yes, I've never heard someone say Doom-like and it's kinda cringe. Not as cringe as "Boomer Shooter" but still cringe. We've had a term for this style of game for almost 30 years, we just need to bring it back.
@@warbossgegguz679 bro I know what the term doom clone means its incredibly outdated and just plain wrong at this point. Just because there are new doom games that are different doesn't retroactively change the term. Nobody was calling horror themed corridor shooters doom clones in the early 2000s just because Doom 3 came out. Boomer shooter and retro fps are fine terms and more accurate. The people uppity about them are just mad because its more popular than their out dated boomer term
@@internetnobody6754 Retro FPS i'm fine with, but Boomer carries a negative connotation... as your own fucking reply demonstrates, lol. "their out dated boomer term" Thank you for exemplifying why I don't like the term, AS A ZOOMER. It's patronizing af and borderline insulting even if it's not "intended" to be. Nobody named shit after Doom 3, because nobody cares about doom 3 or took any design notes from it. Mainly because Doom 3 sucks and is basically a tech demo for idTech 4 with a shitty half-life wannabe slapped together on top. Meanwhile a FUCK TON of indie and AAA FPS games have taken design notes from the refinements/modernizations Doom 2016 and Eternal.
For me, the "boomer" in "boomer shooter" is for the _BOOM_ when you fire your weapons, cause a lot of these Doom-inspired games usually go all in on the weapon and explosion effects.
I like the phrase boomer shooter just because, yeah, it sounds nice. I can understand people not liking it just because "boomer" is kind of a loaded word, but I also feel like it's been overused so much that it's become a parody of its original meaning, which circles around to adding even more to "boomer shooter" being an amusing phrase.
All these years I thought Doom Eternal was going too far with its mechanics and everything and I really didn't vibe with it at all, but literally no one agreed with me. I feel like shitting on Eternal is just cool rn and it's like get outta here I'm an original hater
Folks enjoy Doom 3 because modern FPS games have so much extra junk. For all its faults, Doom 3 launches quickly, allows you to skip cutscenes, disguises load times, and has those cool screens you can click on with your gun.
"Boomer Shooter" is to retro fps's what "Garlic like" is to survivor-type games or "shüt gaem" to fps's, just a funnier name but not the """"official"""" name.
I'm perfectly fine with the genre being called "Boomer Shooter", it doesn't bother me. Now, calling certain shooters "Immersive sims" ? THAT ONE rustles my jimmies.
I think Rougelikes and Rougelites having similar names has led to so much confusion, they even sound the same in certain accents its a one letter difference, pretty lazy naming
I mean, immersive sim is kind of reasonable for games like ARMA where the US military literally uses it for exercises. When it gets slapped on things like Cyberpunk, Forza, 2K games, COD, or even stuff like System Shock, yeah I agree it's overused and very "buzzword-ish". Looking at games tagged as it on steam, it seems to basically mean "has a singular braincell of strategy involved."
@@majamystic256It's gotten to the point where ACTUAL roguelikes now have to use "Traditional Roguelikes" because the waters are that muddy. Ugh. I think this genre is narrowed down enough that it can work, but I hate the name "boomer shooter" because it sounds like patronizing annoying tiktok zoomer shit (as a zoomer). Just say doom clone or retro fps.
i think its just because "boomer" carries a negative connotation for a lot of people, which, to be fair, in recent years it has been- the difference being "boomer" in "boomer shooter" referring to its main playerbase (i.e. people who grew up playing doom and such) rather than any qualities of the game itself
I would hear you out, were it not for the fact that I'm a Zoomer that's been playing DoomWADs and retro PC FPS games since age 13 (so like 2011). My first exposure being the XBLA ports of it and Duke 3D. And even then there are plenty of teens and 20 somethings in the doom community even before 2016, in no small part because of stuff like Brutal Doom. The design comes from a certain era, sure, but it's appeal is timeless to me. So giving it a name that effectively translates to "old-dude nostalgiabait" is kind of off-putting.
SOME DAY I hope they just put a fucking normal arena deathmatch back into id's Shooters. Especially since they're killed Quake Live and Quake Champions. Never understood the hate for 2016's multiplayer either. "It's generic." IT'S DOOM! It fucking invented deathmatch.
as a 90s kid, boomer shooter is a hip way of calling retro fps, ironic enough but not in a bad way. but bruh cs 1.6 is considered a boomer shooter now to the zoomers
Maybe we should call these games "Doomstein" or something. Combining Doom and Wolfenstein, similar to how Metroidvania combines Metroid and Castlevania.
I'm personally not crazy for the term Boomer Shooter just because it kinda' boxes the genre in to revolving around retro aesthetics as opposed to describing the broader design ethos present in FPS games of that era Then again, I'm not exactly gonna' begrudge anyone for using the term
@@internetnobody6754*Doom Clone, and no. Doom Clone was a super broad term in the 90s, and with the release of Doom 2016 and Eternal can be again. It was used for every FPS for like 5 years. Heretic, Hexen, Strife, Duke 3D, Blood, Shadow Warrior, Dark Forces, Outlaws, Marathon, Powerslave, Disruptor, Alien Trilogy, Realm of the Haunting, etc. and even games that were closer to Wolf 3D than Doom got that label. And with the release of Doom 2016 and Eternal, it applies even to stuff that doesn't use retro-aesthetics. It just covers the non-linear, key hunting, run & gun gameplay that goes back to Doom and Wolf 3D. That all said, adding a "-like" suffix is cringy to me too. I just say Doom Clone or Modern Doom Clone.
@@warbossgegguz679 you had to really answer me twice with the same shit. im not talking to you. go be upset elsewhere Im asking other people besides you
The constant talk about "Sequel isn't like the previous game so it's bad" is crazy to me... Do people just want games like Doom 2? Glorified DLC? No innovation? Not enjoying the innovation is fine but the argument 'it isn't Doom' just doesn't sit well with me because at it's core - Doom Eternal is just about tearing shit up. Changing the core of the game is different than building upon that, I promise that if Doom Eternal was Doom 2016 but with different maps, it would get very stale very fast. And before anyone says anything about my take on Doom 2, I still love that game, it innovated in game design instead of game mechanics which is great for its time but we live in a different time now.
Hey, it's Doom but different, that's perfect before sleep! I dislike the term Boomer in general, something about it rubs me the wrong way, I wouldn't even think of calling any game that. To me they're oldschool fps or 90s fps games.
Because Boomer is generally used as an insult or to be patronizing by Zoomers, Millennials, and Gen-X. So calling them Boomer Shooters is basically saying they're old, outdated, and pandering to nostalgia. Or least that's how it comes off to me.
@@warbossgegguz679 Well said, I feel the same. From my experience Boomer is often used negatively, referring to being out of touch, old etc. I love these old games but I don't want to call them Boomer Shooters. Feels like I'd be making fun of them.
@@FuchsfeinExactly, It comes off patronizing and mocking. The term "Doom Clone" to me is kind of a term of endearment because even if it started off derogatory, t was applied to a ton of REALLY GOOD games back in the day (Build Engine, Marathon, Heretic/Hexen, etc.). Sort of like what happened with "metroidvania" being used in jest to describe SotN but then just becoming the de facto genre name. Boomer Shooter is such a "new" term and feels like it was spawned from Zoomers who only ever played COD and Halo reacting to retro FPS design that it seems degrading. And I say all of this as a Zoomer that fell in love with retro-FPS games after playing the XBLA ports of Doom and Duke 3D as a kid. Specifically because they were so arcady, fast, and different compared to COD, Halo, BF, etc. Wanting to play with mods and WADs like Brutal Doom and community maps is actually what got me into PC gaming as a whole. I consider the OG Doom to be my favorite game of all time, and I wasn't even a fetus when it came out. It's not a "Boomer" style of game design. It's timeless.
"Is that revisionist history?" Yes 100%. Doom 3 was absolutely lambasted, same with a a bunch of other games when they've released. People start to appreciate older titles in a series when newer titles keep changing/innovating their formula despite the outcry of whiny players lol
Boomer shooter only aggravates if it's used in a derogatory way. In time maybe it'll purely be a term of endearment. Honestly though? Just call them an FPS. That's my take.
"Boomer shooter" just sounds stupid, but I don't hate it. I'd like retro-FPS as an official title, but I think it's fair to say everyone would understand them. Additionally: the use of TF2 assets (specifically Pyro related) has been happening every other stream and has become comical at this point.
I think it was used very derogatory and dismissive as a start, which is why it's offensive. But since it's been used in a neutral and sincere manner without hostility as time went on it probably doesn't matter any more.
Dunno why people get mad at the term "boomer shooter", I've encountered it a few times whenever I saw it around public discord servers. Some people get really uppity about it. I don't mind the terms because it's catchy, and you automatically know what someone is talking about when they say it. As far as I know it has no negative connotation at all, it's in the same vein as calling something "old school" if you ask me.
Boomer shooter doesn't offend me, it's just stupid, since almost no actual boomers played vidja gaems in the 90's. It was us millenial kids. I would even prefer DOOM clone again.
The doom 3 thing reminds me when new vegas came out and people shit on it said it was a ugly boring unfinished mess and now everyone says its the best fallout
![[Vinesauce] Vinny - Juice World](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/YedKDBeQOLU/mqdefault.jpg)
Oklahoma Smith and the Temple of DOOM II
"You might recognize this adventurer"
I sure do, It's Professor Lemeza Kosugi from La Mulana!
This makes me realise how easy it is to lose track of your health without the little face in the middle of the HUD.
The German yelling audio clips are from Call of Duty 2. There also seem to be some noises from the LEGO games.
Interesting that Jones' revolver is a Webley, which he was only seen using in Last Crusade, whereas he uses a S&W M1917 in almost every other appearance.
I would have said it's because the Webley's reloading process looks cooler, but no reloading in Doom
@@m0skaudancer What are you talking about? GZDOOM supports reloading; if the maker of this mod wanted to add a reloading mechanic they could easily have. See Brutal Doom, as a pretty major example.
The beginning song is also from ANNO 1503, title being 'Raindance', only remixed and extended. Honestly impressive they can take a half minute song and extend it so heavily.
A bit late, but you're wrong. The readme confirms that the German voices are from Medal of Honor Underground.
the doom modding community is so big that I can't even keep up with everything coming out despite being pretty active at looking and playing mods new and old, I had never heard of this mod until this video
At this point, I just keep tabs on what the MegaWAD of the month club is playing and the Caccowards. The community was already super active, but post-Doom 2016 there's SO MUCH SHIT to keep track of.
Yeah, I'm the same with Thief 1 & 2 fan missions as well, still the community keeping games like these going with their own content is part of what makes these pretty fun
12:23 This is your brain on looter shooters.
im not 100% sure but i swear, the mesoamerica level music is from the hot wheels mechanix pc game
That "railgun" is a Jezail musket from Aghanistan, so it's possible the sound effect is part of punny joke
'boomer shooter' as a term feels memey, but thats not a bad thing. its shorthand for a subgenre in a way 'retro shooter' doesnt quite describe. 'retro shooter' could be like, anything from doom style to xbox 360 style or something, retro is such a broad category now. boomer shooter evokes a really specific era which helps.
The 360 is "retro" now? I just felt myself wither into dust.
@@theslamdancekid I'm no happier about it than you are. I'm 35 but my 16 year old sibling calls their Wii U retro.
It is memey, but I'll admit it's pretty catchy.
It also appeals to the average brainrot afflicted internet user who believes anyone who is even a minute older than them is a "boomer".
I hate it. I just call them Doom Clones.
Be that clones of OG Doom or Doom 2016, it works and sounds less like a normy Twitter description of the subgenre
As a zoomer that's been playing OG doom and WADs since I was 13/14 , calling them "boomer shooters" feels derogatory and no amount of irony has really changed that for me.
It'd be like calling traditional RPGs "old asshole RPGs".
I’d hesitate to call the 7th Gen era “retro”; they’re too old to be recent but they’re too new to be *that* old, if you get what I mean.
As for potential other terms for “Boomer Shooter”, I’ve got a few of my own:
Wolfenstyle
DOStyle FPS
Senior FPS
Classic FPS
The Unchat will walk the Earth this Halloween!
1:55 I don't remember Indiana Jones _mowing_ down people, like by the hundreds..."
What, you don't remember when Indy condemned the Kali Ma guys to all die horribly or when he shot all those Crystal Skull guys dead for how negatively received the fourth movie was? This is a Tuesday for him.
"Prepare to meet Kali IN HELL!"
Nah but for real, it's just like Star Wars or Superhero movies: hundreds of people die, but it's almost always bloodless/off screen so it's fine.
For me, Doom is one of my all time favorite series and it was a huge part of my high school years. I enjoy each main line game for their own reasons. I remember when Joel played Doom 3 he was surprised by how "Doom" the game still was with fast movement and the ability to bunny hop. I think Doom 3 starts out slow but about half way in, once you have all of your weapons it's basically Doom again, I mean, if you can circle-strafe around a group of mancubuseses' while unloading your rocket launcher into them, it's Doom.
As far as Doom Eternal goes, I enjoy it for the fact that the power fantasy comes from the game requiring you to get good at it. The game puts you in the shoes of Doom Guy (he will always be Doom Guy to me), it gives you all of the tools you need to be the bad ass over-powered marine but it's up to you, the player to bring the skill. While Doom 2016 is over all a much easier game, I won't say it's an absolute cake-walk but the power fantasy of it all is much less... earned on the player's end. I love both games equally for different reasons. I love that neither game takes themselves too seriously, in fact that was the main appeal of 2016's Doom. Like, there's a serious story happening around you, people are dying by the thousands and the lore is extensive and you're free to scroll through it at your leisure but as far as Doom Guy is concerned, "Where are the demons and where are the guns?" He said without actually saying.
But yeah, I agree with Vinny about classic Doom, the community is so insanely talented and is still strong as ever even after over 30 years! Get yourself a copy of Doom 2 on steam or GOG, it's like 5 bucks, download GZDoom, Maybe ZDL, a program that makes loading mods much more simplified and organized, and just browse around the various communities, watch Icarus Lives or Gman Lives, two youtubers that have tons of videos on interesting and fun Doom mods and who both decidedly live apparently. You could potentially have enough Doom to last you the rest of your life and also your kids and grand kids! You could pass down a portable hard drive full of doom mods like a family heirloom lol!
I always hear people say Doom 64 is the real Doom 3
Those people are correct.
Especially since Romero and other OG id staff actually worked on it.
No shade to Tim Willits or second gen id mind you. I loved Quake 2's single player years before nightdive remastered it and everyone suddenly loved it too after years of crapping on it.
I'm just saying, it's way closer to the OGs in so many ways.
for canon it is
@@Xetan123Canonically, it's weird and up in the air, because both it and Final Doom end on the same note of the Doom marine entering hibernation in hell to ensure he can be woken up if the demons ever invade again.
Generally people do place it after Plutonia, but it's uncertain.
Idk why people hate doom 3 so much. It was different but I thought it was a very fun game.
@@skullkid692 It's not "bad," but it's also nothing special. Not something I would say someone should go out of their way to play over any other doom game or even a lot of other FPS games at the time.
i'd love to see this become it's own game
As a boomer shooter enthusiast, I like boomer shooters being called boomer shooters so I can call them boomshoots
Bushus
things go boom when you schut 💥
it was made in a heavily modified boomer engine so it make sense
Boomieshooties
Indiana Jones but Harrison Ford was recasted with BJ Blaskowitz
14:28 I can't take pitched down Pyro seriously.
It sounded like that spell in tf2 that makes your characters voice super deep during Halloween and full moon event
My problem with Doom: Eternal is that it kinda throws away what I thought was the PERFECT atmosphere and feel of the 2016 reboot. Minimal supporting cast, concise weapon design and balance, perfect gameplay loop of shoot demon, punch demon, repeat, rip, tear, repeat. Eternal just kinda muddled all that and added too many layers. I get why people see that as a positive, but it's just not for me.
But hey, I also prefer Left 4 Dead 1 over 2, so what do I know.
I’m in full agreement with you here, I loved the 2016 aesthetic
I think I recall Yahtzee from Zero Punctuation getting mad at the term 'boomer shooter' because of the actual meaning of 'boomer' being misused in it.
I personally don't care if it's called boomer shooter or whatever, as far as kids are concerned anyone over 20 is a 'boomer'.
To be fair, Yahtzee gets mad at everything.
@@Mantis47 haha true, it's in the job description for game critic
Boomer Shooter is an easy term, as you say, it rolls of the tongue and it's pretty clear what anybody means by that name.
I prefer Retro FPS as a term, but it's less of a cover-all - Return to Castle Wolfenstein, TimeSplitters, Medal of Honor etc. could all be considered "Retro FPS".
I propose we call them "iddqd-likes".
SPISPOPD-Likes
I generally go with retro-FPS or doom-clone/modern doom-clone, because even if it is marketable "boomer shooter" just sounds derogatory.
Doom-Clone is like Metroidvania: it started derogatory but since things like Build Engine games, Hexen/Heretic, Marathon, Dark Forces, Outlaws, etc. get classed as them and it's such an old term, it's more endearing to me than "annoying old person nostalgia FPS"
Holy shit, this is actually incredible. This would be amazing as it's own game!
The background music is from Hotwheels Mechanix!!!
21:19 Yeah, didn't you know the leather bomber jacket gives Indiana Jones +100 Armor?
Couple of people here have said roughly how I perceive 'boomer shooters' but for me, I think of the guns in these games. A lot of them *love* to use really powerful guns that define a lot of the gameplay. The Super Shotgun, Railguns, Dynamite to name a few examples.
Turok 2, Serious Sam, Painkiller, Rise of the Triad, and Build Engine games in particular come to mind when I think of crazy weapons in old school FPS games. Doom 2016 and Eternal add some wackier shit to the Doom arsenal (especially with weapon mods) but the former examples are hilariously absurd.
Still don't like the term boomer shooter though.
20:10 It's an archvile. Revenants are the skeletons that can shoot homing rockets.
I didnt know the "doom eternal bad cause marauder" beef was back, the general consensus Ive always seen has been that eternal was better than 2016 and that's the camp I stand in. If someone doesn't like it though then fair enough. pretty sure the minority didn't like eternal, though I mean both are great games
Yeah now some are claiming 2016 good and Eternal bad or whatever xd
What a gorgeous game
We are the unchat now. "youtube comments section" was long-winded anyway.
I hope maybe one day Vinny checks out some Quake mods like Arcane Dimensions, Alkaline, or Re:Mobilize. Quake has a decently active mapping and modding scene with some very high quality content
He should watch all 4 hours of The Seal of Nehahra on stream. :^)
I got childhood whiplash when the game loaded in hearing the Hot Wheels Mechanix music for the Tiki Jungle track
3:55 Selaco is insane. I can deal with most horror games but Selaco is too scary.
Wait...Selaco is scary?
i call those type of games mostly retro fps, doomlike, classic shooters, sometimes boomer shooter or even carl
Just call them WADs dude.
As in the wads of toiletpaper stuck to the bottom of your sticky bum.
sorry typo i meant retro shooters @@sirrealism7300
winne play de shut. Am glayd
Love you Vinny
Kill jestah
The doom thing is just whether or not one is a purist and what means to be a doom game.
I remember 3 being touted as "just as innovative and technologically advanced as the og doom" and wanting to be a tech display just how ogdoom was impressive programming.
I am not a purist and my favorite doom is 3, eternal does feel like a Mess of features and it does break the "flow of doom", eternal is the one doom that had you running backwards instead of forward, but that's because I'm terrible at eternal.
But even brutal doom is frowned upon in some circles, so I have no strong confusion.
I feel doom is whatever you want to be, as long as they have demons and double barrel shotgun, I think it's doom enough.
I don't get the Doom Eternal hate at all. I loved it and played the shit out of it. It had a fun pace and combat was very adrenaline heavy when paired with the music.
Doom Eternal's mechanics are more complex then most shooters, almost to the point of being like a Character Action game. I love it personally, but I get that some people might prefer more straightforward gameplay.
Doom eternal was cool but it didn't have the same atmosphere that doom 2016 had. I didn't love the arcadeyness of eternal either, and imo marauders ruined the power fantasy of doom
@@TheMistaWatersThe atmosphere and arcadeyness was my issue as well, fine with marauders. Also, the constant need to pull out to do traditional cutscenes, 2016 did so much with everything from a first person perspective, and I didn't care for them ditching that.
@@ev_artwork6443 I can respect that take, even if I disagree to some extent.
I personally liked the arcadey nature of it, much more over the gameplay of 2016. Marauders were annoying, sure, but made up a very small part of the game, so I didn't mind.
The cutscene stuff was fine to me. I don't really prefer either over the other when comparing with 2016 in that aspect. I do like the presentation in 2016 a lot, though.
As much as I resent Id software for how they treated Mick Gordon, I prefer the music of Eternal over 2016 by a lot. It's clear that he went out of his way to make it great, and I respect him greatly for it. He used a wider repertoire of sounds and moods this time around. It's sad to see this working relationship tarnished, I would've loved to hear his sound in potential future installments.
If I were to replay one, I'd choose Eternal every single time.
@@habama1077 And that's perfectly fine. I do ultimately disagree on most points as well. Honestly opposite, I prefer the weapon balancing in the original, I prefer the music in the original. Honestly I was disappointed they felt the need to go back and redesign the enemies to be "classic" style, I quite liked some of the weird choices they made, Mancubus in particular. Also, at the end of the day, it was trying to tell more of a story, and that story for me got in the way, felt it had to overexplain things. '16 gave enough information to let you fill in the gaps, and it worked better for me.
Just note nowhere have I said Eternal is a bad game. But once I beat it, I never picked it up again and likely never will, while I go back to 2016 every now and then because it is one of my favorite games period.
I wish there were more games about fighting Nazis over mythological locations or items as the Nazis, or at least Himmler, were a little obsessed over occultism. Aside from this, some Indiana Jones games, and how Uncharted 2 features Nazis who were trying to find Shambhala, I can't think of anything.
I mean, that's literally the entirety of Wolfenstien.
Just don't play Youngblood.
Also more specifically, Himmler was a literal Norse pagan and he and Rosenberg integrated that into the parties ideals. Hence all the nordic runes and stuff like the SS having their own marital rites. The rest of them were Fedoras.
And this still holds true with most modern WNs. Because "opposition to violence" and "empathy" are weak or something, christianity bad... except for Positive Christianity, but that's a different can of worms.
@@warbossgegguz679 Momentarily forgot about Wolfenstein, but that said, I want more. It's a fun setting with how barmy the Nazis were when it came to the occult.
Wolfenstein Old Blood, Wolfenstein 2009, I think Return to Castle Wolfenstein, are great in that regard-- Seriously, they're really fun.
Old Blood is snappy, doesn't take itself too seriously but seriously enough, has some wonderful spooky atmosphere, great locational variety.
Wolfenstein 2009 is also really good in my opinion, it's different, but has that whole supernatural angle to it, worth hunting down a "copy" as it's abandonware if you catch my drift.
I haven't finished Return to Castle Wolfenstein, but on my list, seen a lot about it, a lot of fun supernatural weird tech seems like (there's a fan mod on Steam if you own a copy called Real Return to Castle Wolfenstein RealRTCW that can work as a good source port for easy install/use and tweak stuff depending upon how original of an experience you want)
You’ve probably already read/watched Hellboy, which is what the series started out as.
Sadly with todays political climate that would be way too divisive. The last Wolfenstein game got review bombed for it, and people did not take kindly to the newer COD games and Battlefield 5 returning to ww2 either. I just don't understand it.
Despite some of its hollow-sounding gun effects, I really like Doom 3. It was the only Doom game that actually spooked me and made me feel the horror of a demon incursion.
Nice to see Vinny playing some D2OM. Good old unmodded DIIM.
Ah the "doom eternal bad cause marauder" loophole is back on the menu boys
The ultimate scrub filter
used to say this then I learned how to beat them
"People disagree with me REEEEEEEEEEEE"
I love all doom games (except 3) but the people getting actively pissed and defensive over the ONEGUYs saying "Eternal bad" is just as cringe.
Especially when there's like 20 comments kneejerk reacting to it vs. like 3 dudes taking that stance.
While I liked 2016 AND Eternal, I do wish they stuck with the almost horror-esque aesthetic of 2016 for Eternal. It’s not bad or anything, it was just a little jarring in the moment.
If they do a quake reboot, I really hope they go full horror and keep it lovecraftian like quake 1.
Doom 3 has committed an unforgivable crime against shotguns and i will NEVER accept it.
I am really digging the mod
Where is Vinny hearing these things that are being said concerning Doom Eternal?
Vindiana Douglath.
oh hey this is the one that recently made the rounds on Twitter with a goofy ultraviolence mod, neat
This seems neat
My issue with doom eternal wasnt the complexity, but more that the complexity starts to take away player agency of weapons and enemy interaction choice as the game goes on, which is kind of a core mechanic I enjoy in shooters.
To answer the question about terminology: I don't care, call it boom-shoot or whatever. I tend to go with "old-school" personally but that's just what I'm likely to say.
I classify boomer shooters by the level design relying on keycards and the high speed of the player and the simplicity of enemies.
A lot of people will equate boomer shooters to graphics alone which i dont really agree with. Like, games taking from half life i dont equate to term boomer shooter.
I recognize that character design. That's Lemeza Kosugi from La Mulana.
This looks pretty awesome, especially for like a solo first time total conversion project!
I want to love Doom 3, the feel and look of that game is great. BUT, from the moment the demon invasion begins all the way up to I think Delta Labs, the game feels padded and paced like a fan mod where they placed enemy spawns into (almost) every single room and corridor, behind every door and a trigger to spawn new enemies behind the player as well at almost every step, that it just becomes too repetitive and almost a bore of a chore.
Forget controversies over the flashlight or the shotgun or the player movement speed, that game needed a strict editor to cut things down, actively remove enemy spawns (& pickups) to make sure there was better paced atmosphere and tension in encounters.
I remember forcing myself to play it all the way to the end, it seriously started to feel like 50% in the middle was done in like autopilot mode, but once you arrived in Delta Labs, either they were done at a very different time in development, devs had got back from a vacation or just different devs worked on them, or they were done first, or maybe last after learning everything and it was mostly polishing or something left, I dunno, but I sat up and perked because in Delta Labs forwards suddenly things had proper pacing again, demons weren't just rote spawning in because there was a door you could walk through, also weirdly enough music for the first time? And the H*ll levels I think came around that time too, very cool.
Game needs a fan mod to straight up delete a bunch of enemy spawns/triggers and pickups from the middle section, then it would be almost perfect. (Call it ironically "Directors Cut" lol)
Prey (2006) is my favourite of the idtech4 engine games though, less Doom 3 more Half-Life 2, but really fun creative setpieces, portals, gravity changing walls, swapping between forms to pass through different obstacles, vehicle section with a gravity gun type thing even, but really good shooting and alien weaponry and AI even and fun looking levels with goopy flesh walls and decent story and campaign that doesn't overstay its welcome.
BTW, Retchid is a cool indie FPS trying to do something a bit like Doom 3 but even more survival horror in some ways, it has literal save rooms and no quick saves, a lot less linear, more traditional metroidvania/maze level design than Doom 3. it just got released into Early Access though so not done, Episode 1 got released.
Doom Eternal to me was good in many ways, but I feel like the levels went too long and were too intense, I needed a days break after every level almost, dread to think how the DLC would feel like.
Still a good game, but I have been soured over the Mick Gordon/Marty Stratton controversy and feel icky going back to it.
Well I liked the addition of audiologs and emails to give it more of a system shock type feel.
@@warnegoodman All things I also really liked about D3, like I said I want to love it, but frustrating pacing for a huge middle chunk-- It's weapons and feel and enemy roster and look, and the interactivity stuff, the whole intro and I think the end chunk from Delta Labs forward, were all pretty fantastic.
Vinny saying he never finished it makes me think he also just got bored somewhere around the hugely repetitive bloated middle chunk of enemy after enemy spawning around every corner, and never got to the better designed places like Delta & H*ll.
Dead Space was in many ways a better Doom 3 than Doom 3.
Doom as a horror game is a cool idea... and that's exactly what Doom 64 is. Doom 3 tries to take the Half-Life/Halo approach to narrative and atmosphere and it doesn't really work. Especially when the occasional spookiness of the OG Doom games came from the labyrinthine environments that you could get lost in or stumble into creepy shit (or a Pinky that's directly behind you but not attacking you until you turn around because their AI and hitboxes are braindead).
Doom 64 takes all of that, but then shifts the atmosphere with the lighting, music, and monster designs to be extremely eerie and unsettling while keeping the gameplay loop the same. Doom 3 just transplants the environment and concept of doom into a generic cinematic "horror" atmosphere which ironically (outside of a few jumpscares) makes it way less unsettling to me.
@@warbossgegguz679 I don't really agree-- Sure, Doom 64 people love that, not going to argue with that, but Doom 3 has relatively few "cinematic" elements, the cutscenes get few and fewer beyond the start of the demon invasion and they are like 30-90seconds long, like Doom 3 might have fewer & shorter cutscenes than Doom Eternal even.
Doom 3 is a lot of "tell don't show" where you mostly hear radio chatter and audio logs instead of watch a ton of cutscenes, most cutscenes are maybe at the start or end of a level, and that's it, very few scripted scenes in the game, it's really a lot of stuff you hear while walking through levels with never-ending enemy spawns monotonously being thrown your way at every step.
Doom 3 would have honestly even benefited from more cutscenes! Something to break the monotony of nonstop enemies in your face: "Oh I walked up to a door opening it, and now the 6th imp was right behind it jumping at me, who could have seen this coming? Wow, I'm shocked, and look at that, another wall that looks like a fake wall, I bet it won't open the moment I step into this hallway revealing imps & zombies, that wouldn't happen like it has happened for the last 27 rooms & hallways I've been in."
It's kind of the issue some other games have had, like Alien Isolation. Alien Isolation kind of throws the Alien at the player too much, and it loses some of the tension and scares, it becomes predictable and rote-- when being more unpredictable, where you can't predict with 90+% certainty that the alien (or demons in this case) will be right there with you at every step would help create a uneasy atmosphere.
If Doom 3 had less constant predictable enemy spawns at all times, where you don't know when the next imp or zombie jumps at you, and you had better paced downtime where you can just walk, stop, look at the cool dynamic lighting/shadows and densely detailed scifi cramped submarine-esque facilities with a lot of animated machinery and humming vents and stuff, just moments where you can immerse in that dead base on Mars, forget demons just for long enough that the next monster closet becomes a genuine surprise, would add to it.
It's something that could be doable, with the right tweaks.
I really don't see "cinematic" having anything to do with it, the game barely has the typical "cinematic" hallmarks.
@@nathane5287Oh, mind you, I'm not saying it's GOOD at imitating Half-Life, Halo, or MoH, but that's just pretty clearly what they were going for... but id's design team was full of Doom/Quake mappers so the environmental storytelling is non-existent.
It's basically dooms level design slowed WAY the fuck down and made more linear.
Ironically, Doom 2016 is WAY better at Half-Life style story telling despite the radically different game design (though not as different when compared to stuff like COD, MoH, and Halo obviously). Doom Eternal... had a bit too many 3rd person cutscenes and sequences imo, but still decent enough narrative that doesn't come off like a cheap sci-fi novel from 60 years ago.
Brad Shoemaker made a really good point on the name boomer shooter once, saying that boomer shooter’s are too cool to be associated with the generation of assholes who tried to take these kinds of games away. I don’t think anyone cares really about the name, but I thought that was an interesting point.
anyone know why that animal howl in the background sounds so familiar?
Personally, Eternal is my top shooter and 2016 is probably equal to it. Both games are so different that they stand alone as greats. I would have loved them to alternate styles on future games.
Oh wow I was wondering if you'd play this.
Doom eternal is my favorite doom game. Something about having to keep track of so many different resources (the fire, the ice, the ammo and which weapon addon to use) while fighting is super enjoyable to me. I wonder if eternal will be remembered fondly in the years to come or if it will remain a black sheep for many doom fans who prefer older dooms
honestly boomer shooter and retro fps are fine, fully agree with Doom Clones though. Purely for nostalgia.
I just call these types of first-person shooters... "first-person shooters."
FTR, the reason picking up pistol ammo didn't let Vinny use his revolver is that the pistols use 9mm, which only his SMG uses.
I like the term boomer shooter cause I think it sounds funny.
I find it annoying because kids keep smacking their gums with it towards me i know that sounds pathetic but I'm only in my teens.
The word "Boomer" doesn't bother me at all, and Boomer Shooter does have a nice ring to it but if I could choose I would pick "Doom-like"
Doom-like doesnt fit every boomer shooter, though. Dusk is more Quake like, Amid Evil is way more Hexen/Heretic (which you could argue is very doom like), Ion Fury is Duke Nukem, Project Warlock is Wolfenstein 3D, etc...
Plus, I think Boomer shooter is a much better descriptor for these games because the genre has evolved so much in such a sort time that calling them "like" the game that inspired it is kind of a disservice. Stuff like Ultra Kill, Postal: Brain Damaged, and Turbo Overkill are so far from their roots that it would be difficult to say it even remotely resembles doom or even the games that inspired them, but all 3 are still considered boomer shooters
@@internetnobody6754 Back in the 90s, the term doom clone wasn't relegated to games that didn't use polygons or have vertical aim. Heretic and Hexen both had vertical aim, as did RotT and Marathon. And all the Build Engine, Slavedriver Engine, and Jedi Engine games had vertical aiming and vertical movement (jumping). Likewise Doom clone was applied to shit that was as simple as Wolfenstein too because that's just HOW BIG Doom was. It was/is an extremely broad term because it was just what people called FPS games for nearly half a decade. This all ignoring the fact that Quake and Quake 2 are themselves derivatives of Doom in terms of game design.
More importantly however is that in modern times "Doom-style" design encompasses both the 4 OG games AND Doom 2016 and Eternal, which effectively negates the whole semantic argument about verticality and polygons.
... But yes, I've never heard someone say Doom-like and it's kinda cringe. Not as cringe as "Boomer Shooter" but still cringe. We've had a term for this style of game for almost 30 years, we just need to bring it back.
@@warbossgegguz679 bro I know what the term doom clone means its incredibly outdated and just plain wrong at this point.
Just because there are new doom games that are different doesn't retroactively change the term. Nobody was calling horror themed corridor shooters doom clones in the early 2000s just because Doom 3 came out. Boomer shooter and retro fps are fine terms and more accurate.
The people uppity about them are just mad because its more popular than their out dated boomer term
@@warbossgegguz679 also doom clone has to be the most cringe contrarian thing to say
@@internetnobody6754 Retro FPS i'm fine with, but Boomer carries a negative connotation... as your own fucking reply demonstrates, lol.
"their out dated boomer term"
Thank you for exemplifying why I don't like the term, AS A ZOOMER. It's patronizing af and borderline insulting even if it's not "intended" to be.
Nobody named shit after Doom 3, because nobody cares about doom 3 or took any design notes from it. Mainly because Doom 3 sucks and is basically a tech demo for idTech 4 with a shitty half-life wannabe slapped together on top.
Meanwhile a FUCK TON of indie and AAA FPS games have taken design notes from the refinements/modernizations Doom 2016 and Eternal.
I loved doom 2016. Never got past the second level of eternal. It wasn't bad but I didn't like something about it.
oo im gonna play this one
i have no problem with boomershooter, just helps me remember shoot of yore..
this genre of games reminds me of those kinda people yk the edgelords that includes ULTRAKILL
For me, the "boomer" in "boomer shooter" is for the _BOOM_ when you fire your weapons, cause a lot of these Doom-inspired games usually go all in on the weapon and explosion effects.
I like the phrase boomer shooter just because, yeah, it sounds nice. I can understand people not liking it just because "boomer" is kind of a loaded word, but I also feel like it's been overused so much that it's become a parody of its original meaning, which circles around to adding even more to "boomer shooter" being an amusing phrase.
All these years I thought Doom Eternal was going too far with its mechanics and everything and I really didn't vibe with it at all, but literally no one agreed with me. I feel like shitting on Eternal is just cool rn and it's like get outta here I'm an original hater
Doom (2016) is to Doom as Star Trek: Discovery is to TNG.
Uh, Doom 2016 is awesome what the hell? New Doom is more like TNG to TOS.
Folks enjoy Doom 3 because modern FPS games have so much extra junk. For all its faults, Doom 3 launches quickly, allows you to skip cutscenes, disguises load times, and has those cool screens you can click on with your gun.
Doom is eternal! Great mod this one!
Indianapolis John
Pog
foist
"Boomer Shooter" is to retro fps's what "Garlic like" is to survivor-type games or "shüt gaem" to fps's, just a funnier name but not the """"official"""" name.
I'm perfectly fine with the genre being called "Boomer Shooter", it doesn't bother me. Now, calling certain shooters "Immersive sims" ? THAT ONE rustles my jimmies.
I think Rougelikes and Rougelites having similar names has led to so much confusion, they even sound the same in certain accents
its a one letter difference, pretty lazy naming
I mean, immersive sim is kind of reasonable for games like ARMA where the US military literally uses it for exercises. When it gets slapped on things like Cyberpunk, Forza, 2K games, COD, or even stuff like System Shock, yeah I agree it's overused and very "buzzword-ish".
Looking at games tagged as it on steam, it seems to basically mean "has a singular braincell of strategy involved."
@@majamystic256It's gotten to the point where ACTUAL roguelikes now have to use "Traditional Roguelikes" because the waters are that muddy. Ugh.
I think this genre is narrowed down enough that it can work, but I hate the name "boomer shooter" because it sounds like patronizing annoying tiktok zoomer shit (as a zoomer).
Just say doom clone or retro fps.
I like to call them Boomer Shooters, Vinny.
i think its just because "boomer" carries a negative connotation for a lot of people, which, to be fair, in recent years it has been- the difference being "boomer" in "boomer shooter" referring to its main playerbase (i.e. people who grew up playing doom and such) rather than any qualities of the game itself
I would hear you out, were it not for the fact that I'm a Zoomer that's been playing DoomWADs and retro PC FPS games since age 13 (so like 2011). My first exposure being the XBLA ports of it and Duke 3D.
And even then there are plenty of teens and 20 somethings in the doom community even before 2016, in no small part because of stuff like Brutal Doom.
The design comes from a certain era, sure, but it's appeal is timeless to me. So giving it a name that effectively translates to "old-dude nostalgiabait" is kind of off-putting.
I like the term "boomer shooter"
I think the only thing doom eternal did poorly was create a mostly boring multiplayer experience.
SOME DAY I hope they just put a fucking normal arena deathmatch back into id's Shooters. Especially since they're killed Quake Live and Quake Champions.
Never understood the hate for 2016's multiplayer either. "It's generic." IT'S DOOM! It fucking invented deathmatch.
as a 90s kid, boomer shooter is a hip way of calling retro fps, ironic enough but not in a bad way. but bruh cs 1.6 is considered a boomer shooter now to the zoomers
Maybe we should call these games "Doomstein" or something. Combining Doom and Wolfenstein, similar to how Metroidvania combines Metroid and Castlevania.
Boomer Shooter’s still a better term than “Metroidvania” or “Collectathon”.
I still prefer Doom Clone, or RETRO FPS.
II call collectathons character platformers, but refuse to use "Search action" instead of metroidvania.
I like calling them "New Romerics" over boomer shooter/arena shooter
I'm personally not crazy for the term Boomer Shooter just because it kinda' boxes the genre in to revolving around retro aesthetics as opposed to describing the broader design ethos present in FPS games of that era
Then again, I'm not exactly gonna' begrudge anyone for using the term
and doom-like or retro fps don't do that?
@@internetnobody6754*Doom Clone, and no. Doom Clone was a super broad term in the 90s, and with the release of Doom 2016 and Eternal can be again. It was used for every FPS for like 5 years. Heretic, Hexen, Strife, Duke 3D, Blood, Shadow Warrior, Dark Forces, Outlaws, Marathon, Powerslave, Disruptor, Alien Trilogy, Realm of the Haunting, etc. and even games that were closer to Wolf 3D than Doom got that label.
And with the release of Doom 2016 and Eternal, it applies even to stuff that doesn't use retro-aesthetics. It just covers the non-linear, key hunting, run & gun gameplay that goes back to Doom and Wolf 3D.
That all said, adding a "-like" suffix is cringy to me too. I just say Doom Clone or Modern Doom Clone.
@@warbossgegguz679 you had to really answer me twice with the same shit. im not talking to you. go be upset elsewhere Im asking other people besides you
The constant talk about "Sequel isn't like the previous game so it's bad" is crazy to me... Do people just want games like Doom 2? Glorified DLC? No innovation? Not enjoying the innovation is fine but the argument 'it isn't Doom' just doesn't sit well with me because at it's core - Doom Eternal is just about tearing shit up. Changing the core of the game is different than building upon that, I promise that if Doom Eternal was Doom 2016 but with different maps, it would get very stale very fast.
And before anyone says anything about my take on Doom 2, I still love that game, it innovated in game design instead of game mechanics which is great for its time but we live in a different time now.
Hey, it's Doom but different, that's perfect before sleep!
I dislike the term Boomer in general, something about it rubs me the wrong way, I wouldn't even think of calling any game that.
To me they're oldschool fps or 90s fps games.
Because Boomer is generally used as an insult or to be patronizing by Zoomers, Millennials, and Gen-X.
So calling them Boomer Shooters is basically saying they're old, outdated, and pandering to nostalgia. Or least that's how it comes off to me.
@@warbossgegguz679 Well said, I feel the same. From my experience Boomer is often used negatively, referring to being out of touch, old etc.
I love these old games but I don't want to call them Boomer Shooters. Feels like I'd be making fun of them.
@@FuchsfeinExactly, It comes off patronizing and mocking.
The term "Doom Clone" to me is kind of a term of endearment because even if it started off derogatory, t was applied to a ton of REALLY GOOD games back in the day (Build Engine, Marathon, Heretic/Hexen, etc.). Sort of like what happened with "metroidvania" being used in jest to describe SotN but then just becoming the de facto genre name.
Boomer Shooter is such a "new" term and feels like it was spawned from Zoomers who only ever played COD and Halo reacting to retro FPS design that it seems degrading.
And I say all of this as a Zoomer that fell in love with retro-FPS games after playing the XBLA ports of Doom and Duke 3D as a kid. Specifically because they were so arcady, fast, and different compared to COD, Halo, BF, etc. Wanting to play with mods and WADs like Brutal Doom and community maps is actually what got me into PC gaming as a whole.
I consider the OG Doom to be my favorite game of all time, and I wasn't even a fetus when it came out. It's not a "Boomer" style of game design. It's timeless.
"Is that revisionist history?" Yes 100%.
Doom 3 was absolutely lambasted, same with a a bunch of other games when they've released. People start to appreciate older titles in a series when newer titles keep changing/innovating their formula despite the outcry of whiny players lol
Boomer shooter only aggravates if it's used in a derogatory way. In time maybe it'll purely be a term of endearment. Honestly though?
Just call them an FPS. That's my take.
"Boomer shooter" just sounds stupid, but I don't hate it. I'd like retro-FPS as an official title, but I think it's fair to say everyone would understand them.
Additionally: the use of TF2 assets (specifically Pyro related) has been happening every other stream and has become comical at this point.
The only problem with boomer shooter is that boomers where not playing these in the 90's.
"Boomer shooter" doesn't offend me necessarily, but "retro FPS" just seems more sensible to me
Wuthering de heeeeell?
I think it was used very derogatory and dismissive as a start, which is why it's offensive. But since it's been used in a neutral and sincere manner without hostility as time went on it probably doesn't matter any more.
Boomer shooter is a cool name
Dunno why people get mad at the term "boomer shooter", I've encountered it a few times whenever I saw it around public discord servers. Some people get really uppity about it. I don't mind the terms because it's catchy, and you automatically know what someone is talking about when they say it. As far as I know it has no negative connotation at all, it's in the same vein as calling something "old school" if you ask me.
Unchat thats us! doom 3 was the last good one. i dont like the newer ones its not the same idea for me. this mod/wad is verry cool. nice one binyot!
Boomer shooter doesn't offend me, it's just stupid, since almost no actual boomers played vidja gaems in the 90's. It was us millenial kids. I would even prefer DOOM clone again.
The doom 3 thing reminds me when new vegas came out and people shit on it said it was a ugly boring unfinished mess and now everyone says its the best fallout
And both opinions are wrong.
Best fallout is fallout 2 and anyone who says otherwise has a skill issue.
@@warbossgegguz679I don't like any fallout game
@@JacobKinsley understandable tbh
@@warbossgegguz679 yikes