Why Game & Watch Became OP In Smash Bros
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- Опубликовано: 1 сен 2023
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Some characters in smash bros ultimate when from low tier to high tier throughout the games lifespan. In this video I discuss how and why these low tier smash characters became high or top tier characters :)
#ssbu #supersmashbros #smashbrosultimate #smashbros #nintendo 
Игры
I love how even with the nair people thought g&w was trash
Yeah, GW I think is the kind of character that looks too gimmicky to be a top tier but when you compare his strengths you see that every strength he has is directly anti meta.
He's able to punish attacks on his shield in a game where most characters shield pressure for free.
He's able to launch attacks with fair from a high-up location that most of the cast can't respond to.
He can just throw out really good unpunishable smash attacks when people are aggressive, as the game promotes.
So you'd be able to camp this character out with all of the above and beat him with a horizontal zoning game, but then he has bucket.
@@Iamyourboo2Also I’m pretty sure both the bucket and a 9 from side b kill at 0 with standard tournament rules and that is insane. I honestly want to see lucky GW 9 plus a bucket vs Steve
1:36 “but then there came a little Mexican man” had me fucking dying
I’m kind of surprised Ice Climbers haven’t risen to the top in this game with all the completely broken stuff they are technically capable of at top level play.
Not many people have put in the effort to do it. You can only practice that sort of stuff offline, online input delay would make some of it horrendous for to do correctly. Plus it’s a lot of effort to learn those crazy combos, and other (more fun) characters are easier to just pick up and have a good time with
They also have really bad match ups
Big D is literally the only player consistently pushing their meta at the top level, and he has some insane results (albeit a bit inconsistent). Unfortunately, ICs just don't do well in matchups where either they can't get in, or the other character doesn't have to brawl to win neutral interactions. Honestly, I think they're currently in a good spot balance/performance-wise, and I always love watching Big D sets just for the sheer number of ridiculous combos he's able to pull off in a tournament setting consistently.
People not putting time into them
Having to rely on the ai for consistency just sucks sure its better than its ever been but still sucks
This reminds me when me and my friend used to think game and watch was trash because we didn’t recognize him from any of the games we played
Is not surprising. I come from an age that may or may not be forgotten
@@mr.gamewatch6165 is that really you mr game
I did the Same with olimar. Now I main him, and he is just strait up bonkers.
@@exabyten6309 indeed
Honestly, one of my reasons too how I thought of the character at first
Love your content big man ❤ Hope to see more informative content done in an entertaining way!
expand dong (man)
Agreed
I played a counter strike match against you I think
Another big thing to note about Pac-Man is his grab was abysmal in Smash 4 and got a massive buff in Ult. He had far and above the worst grab in Smash 4 which meant you could basically just hold shield against him and avoid his pressure (especially because his grab sometimes didn’t even work). Now his grab will actually beat spotdodges and he has throw combos out of up throw
I think his back throw is a kill throw too
I have seen 0 robin players ever, and the unique combos with the dropped tomes/levin sword can be really fun to see.
That's cause it's movespeed is way too slow for something that doesn't have the power+weight of incineroar.
Who?
Persnally I’m a firm believer in my main man Mewtwo. Everyone talks about his big body and tail and doesn’t talk about the MANY strengths he has as a character. His top representation is gone but I’m hoping another top player will recognize what he can do.
Mewtwo has so much untapped potential but everyone just points out the tail hitboxes smh
Yeah I played him for awhile and gave up when every game I would get spiked through ledge 🤦♂️
@@frolickinglion5411 Lmao yeah I have a friend who plays Mewtwo and another who plays PT, and Ivysaur at ledge looks like hell deluxe in that mu
It would be cool to see a top mewtwo player because he's such a cool character
My pick for underrated character is Incineroar. He's such a good tournament character because he can just randomly win a lot of matchups and has so many consistent damage, kill, and gimp options. I don't think he's top 10 or anything, but I think he's proven to be MUCH better in a tournament setting than people initially gave him credit for.
Honestly, would like to see the antithesis of this - characters that used to be rated very highly/were deemed "high-potential" characters, but never reached that full potential, or fell off without any major nerfs.
Pika (sorry ESAM) and Shulk def come to mind as characters that everyone claimed were top 5 in theory, but that even the best players of those characters have not been able to achieve those levels of results with consistency.
I also feel like Palu (though she received minor nerfs) and Peach have fallen off from their early potential/peeformances, but I'm not sure how much of that just comes down to power creep and overall shift of the larger metagame to characters that don't fall into their archetypes/fill different niches.
Either way, interesting food for thought.
What DDee did with PacMan made him my personal hero.
Great video.
I’m surprised Cloud didn’t get on this list. That character was considered pretty mid at launch, but he’s now unanimously considered a top tier, or at the very least high now. He got a great set of buffs in 7.0.0 and Sparg0 is really showing just how far this character can go.
On a similar note, Byleth was considered terrible until MKLeo picked them up and showed how consistent they could be. They did get a decent set of buffs, particularly to the startup of up b, but a lot of the things they’re considered really good at (recovery, kill confirms, range) were not really considered until Leo started exploiting them.
People still thought Cloud was ok. You can’t go wrong with big sword
Cloud jumped from mid to high and same with byleth, though I think a lot of people are considering him mid again after Leo’s recent performances. I think they both got good jumps but they were never considered TRASH to high tier, which is what I think poppit1 is going for
do u not remember the terror of smash 4 cloud bro cloud has always been hated by the masses
2:29 Fun fact, it has enough hitstun that when done properly, you can land the grab at any percent regardless of if they shield or not. Check out GimR’s guide to the unblockable.
Another thing that tipped off about Game & Watch early on was that up smash's intangibility was moved from the startup, to the duration and endlag of the move, and many thought at the time that this was worse. It really came down to the fact that Game & Watch players had to reconfigure how they played their character in comparison to his SSB4 self in order to see how strong a lot of his new tools were. Game & Watch players early on also weren't very high on their character, including Maister, but as they played the game more and more, they eventually pushed the character to the state he is in today.
The HopCat clip ☠️ Great video!
I don’t know where they’re placed on the tier list, but I think Corrin has some untapped potential in the mix ups you can do with side b, the spacing that can be achieved with back air, and multiple levels of their projectile, and the bite thing after to catch a roll or something. Mkleo played Corrin for a bit but if he picked it back up it could be really cool.
Corrin is already seen as high tier or upper mid tier at worst. It’s not just Mkleo doing work, we got Neo, SHADIC and Ly making results for Corrin. But yes you are certainly right about the untapped potential of corrin moves such as side b mixups (pin hop, dragon lunge kick platform cancel, instapin), neutral b chomp/hitstun level scaling with damage and charge level. Bair pressure/spacing/recovery. Though what I listed are some of what we already discovered, most of these are already applicable in tourneys only the neutral b hitstun (into fsmash my favouritr) is not always gonna happen in bracket but I’m personally trying to use it consistently in bracket
I feel like Yoshidora has just brought Yoshi from the one of the most forgot about character to one everyone is discussing being kinda broken
I was about to write the same thing. Well, almost. I wouldn't go as far as broken, since Yoshi does have quite clear weaknesses, especially if you manage to interrupt his double jump and his grab doesn't do a whole lot. But other than that the character is quite insane. One of the best advantages in the entire game, damage and frame data out of the ass, frame 1 heavy armour, insane air mobility to name just a few things.
And on top of all that, he is cute :)
I remember how I thought of Mr. Game & Watch back then. I thought he was going to be a horrible character and easily forgettable. However, I tried him out and I was playing him better than Mii Brawler (At first, I didn’t like it because he used to be my hated character). Once I saw montages and Maister proving fans wrong, it changed my perspective of him. Plus, developing a crush. But mostly, with his fun combos and unique moveset, that’s how he became my main. I know there’s people who hate going against him but I’m honestly happy how he’s gaining more recognition, whether as a character or fighter respectively.
I have been playing game and watch since brawl, I’m glad to see my boi finally get some love and respect
Cheers to you 🎊
Same!
I am so happy about G&W being such a good character. I'm a big fan of retro video games and been playing since Melee so I was always naturally drawn to him.
I can’t wait for Steve’s video and talk about how they thought this character could only dash attack and run away slowly
No, Minecart (side special) and up tilt/air among other things have always been a complaint. Alongside a campy playstyle (building a wall and mining for materials), and several options to counter whatever approach the opponent wishes to do (like from behind a wall, Steve can up tilt or up smash against those who try jumping), he's hardly been seen as low tier. Maybe high-mid at worst, though it became especially prominent once Onin showed up at that initial tournament and took out major players.
Incineroar is definitely a character that qualifies for this. At release everyone thought he was trash... Dr Mario tier. Even on the official tier list, he's still only ranked C+. But recently, thanks mostly to Skyjay but also a few other players, a lot more people are realising how insane he is, with some top players ranking him in high tier or even top tier. Cloud was also considered not particularly good at release, maybe mid tier, but over time he got some pretty good buffs, especially in patch 7.0.0, which is around the time Sparg0 decided to main him full time, and his results speak for themselves, with Cloud now considered a top tier.
I believe Robin might also be a force yet to be awakened, a strong projectile game, devastating aerials that beat out a lot of moves, and also just a bunch of setups and unique stuff about them.
Yeah, but Robin crumples under pressure due to poor mobility and frame data. Also it is generally outclassed by other Zoners(ex Ness, Samus...)
People always said Shulk was untapped S tier, but it hasn't really come to fruition. I think Pyra and Mythra kind of took the wind out of those sails.
I think mii brawler for sure can fall under this, I remember back in the early days of smash I saw people put brawler as low as bottom 3. Since they believe mii brawler has no kill power but then they gave them buffs and now they are probably high tier or top tier
True. Although Smash Wii U is the first Smash Bros game I played, I always thought that whether you have custom moves or not, Mii Brawler has some potential no one can pull off. While the potential part is right, Mii Brawler isn’t as tricky as they seem and is pretty fun to play as
Great video, very well put together and super entertaining as well :)
Lucas has so much potential lol
U need to talk about Lucario, Bowser Jr, Marth, and Ken/Ryu. These are all hard characters to play but top players who main them make them look broken as hell.
Lol the surprise that you put in my Video 😂 even though I'm such a small channel 😂
And off course my mind has changed on that, the move is different but good. G&W melee version of the box is also a great move. They are both
It’s always funny seeing people be adamant a character either is busted or sucks but then seeing that completely disproven as time goes on
Cool video but I think it's important to remember tier lists don't matter unless your playing competitively
This video is made within the framework of competitive play. Nearly all of the footage used is of tournament play at the top level. Of course a tier list matters in this context? Especially when discussing movements of characters within said tier lists due to their performances in competitive play? I'm just not sure if you watched the video actually or who your comment is intended for lol. He didn't discuss casual play in the video because this video is about the performances/perceptions of characters in a competitive setting.
Mr game and watch has like 100 jobs and one of them is keeping a lion inside a cell with a chair, its no surprise his number 9 destroys everyone
Diddy Kong went through the same journey
True. I remember people saying that he was better in Brawl and 3DS/Wii and assumed that due to his recovery (Before the buff), this is his worse game. Thank god Tweek proved them wrong despite how many banana clips can be pulled off
I really like watching the history of smash 4 and ultimate really show how much of an impact this games has left in my life
The capability of characters and their 'potential' or 'perfect playstyle' are all heavily debatable and even harder to put into practice. Everyone in the game has their tools, it's just up to the player to find a way to effectively utilize them in creative and powerful ways.
Great analysis 👍 would love to see more
Poppt1 sounds pretty cool. He's probably better than mkleo
now he is number 3, such a glow up
Ice climbers are going almost entirely off Big Ds worm
I like this kind of video a lot
i like you a lot
@@duu1981tiansquare i like you a lot
Loved the vid! Keep it up!
lucas is definitely one of the most overlooked i feel
Game and Watch has rizzen
I love how for sonic we just had a compilation of sonix just beating the shit out of top players
I've always thought that Mewtwo just needs a top player to pick him up.
I never thought id see the day the Game and Watch would be S, i mained him for so long and im coming back to Smash Ultimate after maybe 3 years and im back and see he's S xD
Incineroar gat a small glow up
Highkey, Krool just needs more good players piloting the character. Won't rise that much but I think the perception around him would get better, similarly to how these characters got better perception because good players pushing the chars.
Since then, the official tier got updated and Game and Watch is the 3rd best! Just behind Sonic and Steve.
1:30 tell me you are german without telling me😂
i decided to main game&watch because i thought he was funny i didn't know he'd end up in the top three
Game & Watch mains are optimal.
And flat
This video happened before poppt could see game and watch at 3rd place...
not that people thought Mario was bad, but I remember him being like low mid tier at the start
I think he has one of the best recoveries
Sonic has many pain points, but the single most aggregious move he has is his Up-b! The fact that the spring lingers for 5 years, has a hit box and forces jumps is the dumbest move to give to an already overtuned character. That is only the spring part, the fact that sonic can act out of his up-b, the height of the jump, and the speed of it is stupid.
One of the most annoying characters to fight for me, but one of the most satisfying to finally hit with a big move after I’ve chased him down all throughout the stock.
I think Skyjay has shown the world what Incineroar is capable of despite him being a low-tier character.
incin is not low tier lol
@@azuremoon4372 He was originally
@@aratherbritishdinosaur at release maybe
A caracter like Pac Man IS definitly Little Mac. Hear me out : He still awfuly bad but Peanut shows hier much you can do with him
Shows US HOW much*
Who made those 2019 tier list? I wanna look at it and I didn't see anything using the SSBWiki style besides the 2023 offical tier list.
Shulk is THE character for this. If someone could come along and use monado arts to their fullest, they would be the number one player in the world and make shulk look ABSOLUTELY BUSTED.
Enough time has passed shulk isnt as crazy as people thought at first
@@Noname-cs8wu thats because no one has been able to use shulks kit to its fullest. It may never happen but if someone does then it will shake up the scene.
@@PeachBoiASMROr he's just actually not as good as people assume. Pyra and Mythra are basically a better version of Shulk already.
It'd be interesting if you do an opposite video about Characters people thought they were op but fell off (no nerfs included like Pichu or Zss)
Ike
PIKACHU BRUH YOU HAVE TO BE SHITTING ME 😂😂😂
ZSS is still super good, though?
That be some Marss propaganda
Pikachu. Seriously, It has results akin to a mid tier, Esam not even being in top 150, yet people in America and specially Argentina call it a top 10.
@@N12015 doesn’t matter if you have results it matters what the move set is
He was one of my favorites in Melee. 😍
No mention of Fox going from people arguing bottom five to people arguing top five?
lucas could be so good
I would love to see an analisys of sonix gameplay when aggresive i think it is really hype when on that playstyle, whic has started to show up more lately
piranha plant!!
Everyone deserves to be at their peak
Melee G&W was god tier (nair parachute for the win boiiiis!!!) 😉👍🏻
this is very true bro👍🏿
Poppt are you familiar with anyone else that plays these characters and aren't the peak players?
I don’t think sonic spin dash should be changed into committing or not aspect.
I think it should stay with the option to cancel it. I think all characters should have the option to cancel moves.
Would be good to also talk about the characters started at the top of the tier list and then fell off
Wow, Mr. Game and Watch is always OP
This would be a great video for your Japanese channel/audience. You should post the translated version on your Japanese channel
diddy kong should be next
I'm surprised Sheik is not on here
Aww, I'm a bit let down we didn't get the normal outro clip
If doc gets rep we would know that he isn't outclassed by mario just worse
Inkling needs a top player. As I main them I know that they have crazy combo potential. For example, down throw at 0 true combos into f-tilt for at least 20%. They also are good at edge-guarding and has a flexible recovery with roller and the ability to super jump ( up b ) high across the stage - there is so much potential for a mid-high tier character.
I remember when the game came out, people thought fox sucked
I STILL DONT UNDERSTAND WHY G&W THIS GOOFY CHARACTER IS EVEN CLOSE TO HIGH TIER 💀
Guys trust ganons S tier we js need top players to see it
Wild
I never understood people saying Sonic was bad. Like we were saying the same thing at the start of Smash 4 haven’t we. Didn’t we learn our lesson that a character with this much speed is impossible to not be broken.
his moves were just inconsisted, like multi attacks didnt properly work at all. That ruined your combo game
toon link is one I still think has hidden potential
The only smach bros character sonic who’s knows I might be wrong well idk if I’m wrong
IT shows people don't understand the game. Yes it has big lag but when you try to punish, you get hit by the freaking bomb. It's as if Kid or toon link got to drop boms with out pulling them out at the cost of some end lag, it would flat out buff them extremely hard. Also his UP B is by far one of the best recovers in the game.
0:38 I've never heard of this guy before. Can anyone tell me who he is?
Bayo? Mid tier to top tier
Does Mr Game & Watch Become Buff?
outro?
cool video
Bowser might be one
I main game and watch
awesome
Same here
0:58
Wasn’t Roy bad in Smash 4 and Melee then got somewhat of on overhaul in Ultimate
Mr Game and Watch in Brawl was the best for me.
Mario because the people were mad that d-tilt u-tilt in to a ladder 0-death combo with rage doesn't work.
also palu cuz smash 4
Can someone send me the link to the oldest tier list Poppit used
Mr Game And Watch Is My Favorite And Im Trying to unlock him in melee