The MSD Atomic Intake is a clever design that is capable of making excellent useable power for any LS7 for street or track. It is very popular intake manifold with the C6 Z06 Corvette Community and unfortunately it has also had a history of quality control issues for some time. As I have stated, it's a great intake manifold...... once you sort out all the production quality issues, I.E. missing and incorrect hardware, warped upper and lower plenum halves, poor sealing characteristics, missing bolt holes, etc. When sound corrective measures were applied addressing reliability by gaining a properly sealed unit, we gained 36RWHP and gained 30 TQ with the installation of the intake and a NW 103 throttle body. to our combination. When properly tuned our medium performance build made 535 RWHP and 520 TQ as measured on a DYNO Dynamics chassis Dyno. I have been running the MSD for 2 years now, trouble free and I am very happy with it. Just don't be surprised if you might have to spend some time sorting out the deficiencies you may encounter.
A month or two ago you asked if you should include pricing of components in your reviews and a majority of respondents said "yes". So since you didn't mention it in this review, here goes: Holley Hi-Ram - $1000, MSD Atomic Air Force - $1200, Performance Design Carbon pTR - $1300.
He doesn't care what subscribers want or think, that's why he has never finished his Big Bang Engines. He'd rather re hash crap he did years ago, before being fired from a magazine.
Nice test. Glad to see you using that cam because I just put together a 416 cubic inch LS3 based engine with the exact same BTR cam so I'm happy to see the great peak numbers and nice torque curve you made with it. My motor has less compression (11.5:1),a little less cylinder head (AFR LS3 260) and also less cubic inches at 416 vs 427 but if I can make anywhere north of like 625 flywheel I'll be really happy. Going on the dyno soon so we'll see. Thank you for this test.
@@ShawnGilbert1967 I did go with 1.8 roller rockers. I could have just used the 1.7's and probably not have lost much but it felt worth the additional cost to just do the 1.8's.
Massive plenum + long runners + smooth transition into the runners = good power everywhere. There's a reason why the pTR is the best, and the fact that it only costs a few hundred dollars more than the other options AND is adjustable makes it a no-brainer.
@@richardholdener1727 true, but far less than the Hi-Ram. It matches the MSD pound for pound all the way from 3000RPM. Has anyone done a comparison of the pTR to the XR? I've seen very little testing on that crossram design.
Need more ls7 long runner intakes that fit under oem hoods, the Wilson is just too expensive. Maybe the xs ls7 will do that. Btw, that dyno pull to 7700rpm only had ~54psi of oil pressure on the right monitor but about 10psi higher on the left. Why the difference?. Are there any concerns with 54 being too low?
Would love to see how the ported MSD's on the market for the LS7 perform. I've seen some very good overall numbers using them, but have never been able to run a true A-B comparison in true Richie fashion. American Heritage Performance would be the first place I'd hit up since they're local in SoCal and are LS7 specialists.
@@vanjabi8827ironmask, Greg Good, CT porting, and a few others all have far better programs than mamo. Nothing against mamo but his are far from the best
Just imagine the pTr / LSXHR ported with a uniform cross sectional area 4" up from the cylinder head mating surface, and ported transitions of the velocity stacks... then mixing the velocity stack lengths across the manifold to make even more torque and extend the HP up the curve a little more. You get pretty much the same numbers (or better 😉), but with 11.9:1, a smidge smaller camshaft on a 110, running 91 rm^2 pump with a 2.00" primary... on an LS7 crate. Performance Design once again has brought the A-game.
@@richardholdener1727 ... less peak power, but what did it do to overall power/torque under the curve ? Not everyone cares about peak dyno numbers. Peak means nothing if I am passing you mid gear, anywhere.
Richard (or anyone here), have you any experience with Advanced Inductions head work? More specifically, their LS stuff? I had looked at doing their high-comp 241 package on my LS1 a while back where they do a LOT of work, even so far as welding up and reshaping the chambers to bump compression and keep stock p2v clearance, and running one of their spec'd cams for those heads. They're similar to TEA in the work they do but I was wondering if you could look at the high compression 241 work and see what that would do power wise. I'll link it to you if RUclips won't pull the link or email. It's a very extensive and neat head job.
Hey Rich, just out of curiousity have you done any Coils and plug wire tests. Some of the manufacturers claim increased power with coils and plug wires so it would be nice to see if they are valid claims or not.
Mr Holdener! Was the MSD ported or opened up, or was it out of the box tested? I know they seem to have a LOT of casting issues and imperfections that need cleaned up, where some of the castings have areas where the polymer flashes over and partially obstructs airflow, and just cleaning up the casting lines can make a huge difference. People are also having excellent gains with porting. Just curious it hear if you've touched it!
@@richardholdener1727 so no mamo porting and why not use the NW or Katech 102/103 TB does anybody use the granatelli pieces? nobody on the Corvette forums do thats why im asking
Would be interesting to do a comparison of the stock LS-7 vs. the BES heads, to kinda preface this manifold comparison. Maybe you did, but, I couldn’t find it.
Hey Richard could you try the carbon ptr intake on 5.3 or 6.0s in cathedral port style to see how well it stacks up against other cathedral port intake manifolds I’m curious to see
@@erikryan9204 I was thinking the same but I wonder how lower hp set ups benefit cuz I have the fast lsx hr on my 243 headed 6.0 and seems to do really well I would like to know how much better it is
Thanks so much, I have that exact cam in my LS7 with a high ram ( I had the Ptr on back order literally 8 months ), can you tell me what timing made peak power? 31? Thanks so much for this test confirms a lot of what I thougjt except I thougjt the hi ram would take over a few hundred rpm sooner...the lsxhr would roll out a hair sooner on long stacks..it done great to hold with the msd then pull out the top better...
@@richardholdener1727 thanks Richard, i forgot those are stock style combustion chambers with a BES port job, I swear my BR7s want more timing..I'm take it slow, reading plugs and have even adjusted the heat range/tip projection easing up its NEVER not increased MPH with timing..at 31 now slowly over months...at 26 it's a dog... I think over winter I'm gonna find true top dead center and make sure I don't have some dwell/drift with a timing mark.....just to make sure. I've had a aftermarket injection systems do that before.. For instance it runs on dragy from a dig 10s with a 1.90 60ft @ 127mph+ on virgin 2 lane,( low 7s 1/8th probably mid 6s track with a 1.5x 60ft) no prep or water burn out with some SS radials just a clean off n go... If I put that back on 26 it would drop half a second and 5mph, ask me how I know...I was very hesitant but since it was severely under performing on those saner timings I started easing up ( adding a little fuel as well ).. I also see why it's never went slower as I've adding shift rpm by 100 increments...based on your chart with same cam, intake, ci, rockers, springs and headers I should shift around 7600-7700, I know it likes it but again easing up on it....( wasn't using dragy past 7400 shifts got to try it again this fall )...flex sensor is up and working it's on 93 ( e20ish) and I have a timing pull for anything under e50 in it...... It won't spin a tire on 24 degrees, it also like 13.1 ish AFR on E... I guess I need to verify timing and then go ahead and get it on a chassis dyno, it's to expensive an engine for my old school ways. It was darton sleeved built for boost then life happened.... Thanks for the test it's damn near identical, if those are the size and flow BES ports I think they are... Thanks again for including that timing info, from research i know the stock chambers really like that area especially with added compression but if my indication is true these Brodix BR7 chambers want more and I have flat tops with a good .038 quench shrugs...
@@ShawnGilbert1967 Something we've talked about here in the comments before is how much variation we see between Rich's dyno timing and what we usually log with stock ECU (E38/E67) and hptuners. He typically sees peak power at much lower timing values then I do, but he's using Holley, Haltech, etc. vs. stock ECUs. I think there may be a little difference in how GM references base timing vs. the aftermarket stuff because there is no way Rich is consistently running that much less timing than those of us on the stock ECU hardware and getting similar power (for example on my LSA engine on E85 I'm running 27-28 deg, he's getting peak power in the low 20s). This would fit with your results as well. I doubt the head is going to require 5 deg diff.
Richard I’m building a 408 with a 88mm FIS turbo and plan to use nitrous. I really like that PTr intake but worried if it would take it. What’s your thoughts on it?
Richard, without asking "what your thoughts are" about this,...have you seen Blueprint Engines new 4cyl LS headed engine theyve been showing off? I dont think its available retail yet as it was shown off at a show initially, but its got some neat features. I think its 3.6l and will accept an LS head, OR Ford Windsor head. Im not sure if that means two different engines will be available or theyve made it where either will bolt to the same block. Its based off some 4cyl GM engine used in industrial apps. Supposedly has pistons and rods that are standard small block stuff, so interchangeable, a stout crank, and in stock bore VERY thick cyl walls. They tested ot boosted and it made some cool (albeit odd) numbers, almost diesel like lol. ruclips.net/video/wi7S5oHXL8c/видео.html
@richardholdener1727 Did BP come out and say that? I know it was a "prototype" of sorts, but man they hyped it up like it was a serious possibility. That thing spread like wildfire after debuting at the show. I'd like to know the true potential of the little 4cyl if boosted higher, and how difficult getting a camshaft/valvetrain made for it would've been.
Upon good authority, I can say that Performance Design did the development and prototyping for Fast... considering that the pTr was available before the release of the Fast LSXHR. Well, I received mine before Fast released the existence of the LSXHR, anyway. However, I can not speak for them... I will let Caleb or Jason be the horse.
@richardholdener1727 it's a holley sniper dual flanges intake sort of like the tunnel ram intake. I trade it for a cam thinking it would fit but doesn't fit ls3 heads
![Testing LS Intakes! Which LS3 Intake Makes the Most Power? [Can Stock Keep Up?]](/img/1.gif)
I'd love to see more LS7 content! Maybe an updated LS7 head shootout, but on a 427 this time?!?!
We want to see the Carbon pTR using the shorter runner length vs medium and long runner lengths
The MSD Atomic Intake is a clever design that is capable of making excellent useable power for any LS7 for street or track. It is very popular intake manifold with the C6 Z06 Corvette Community and unfortunately it has also had a history of quality control issues for some time. As I have stated, it's a great intake manifold...... once you sort out all the production quality issues, I.E. missing and incorrect hardware, warped upper and lower plenum halves, poor sealing characteristics, missing bolt holes, etc. When sound corrective measures were applied addressing reliability by gaining a properly sealed unit, we gained 36RWHP and gained 30 TQ with the installation of the intake and a NW 103 throttle body. to our combination. When properly tuned our medium performance build made 535 RWHP and 520 TQ as measured on a DYNO Dynamics chassis Dyno. I have been running the MSD for 2 years now, trouble free and I am very happy with it. Just don't be surprised if you might have to spend some time sorting out the deficiencies you may encounter.
A month or two ago you asked if you should include pricing of components in your reviews and a majority of respondents said "yes". So since you didn't mention it in this review, here goes: Holley Hi-Ram - $1000, MSD Atomic Air Force - $1200, Performance Design Carbon pTR - $1300.
He doesn't care what subscribers want or think, that's why he has never finished his Big Bang Engines. He'd rather re hash crap he did years ago, before being fired from a magazine.
Never in my life did I think I would live to see adjustable intake runners
Nice test. Glad to see you using that cam because I just put together a 416 cubic inch LS3 based engine with the exact same BTR cam so I'm happy to see the great peak numbers and nice torque curve you made with it. My motor has less compression (11.5:1),a little less cylinder head (AFR LS3 260) and also less cubic inches at 416 vs 427 but if I can make anywhere north of like 625 flywheel I'll be really happy. Going on the dyno soon so we'll see. Thank you for this test.
Let us know how it did
@@scotttimpany2845 Sure I'll post a reply here when I have results, hopefully in a week or so.
It should be over 625 fwhp no problem
Did you use 1.8 rockers or just basically use it as a low/mid lift on LS3 ( last forever like that)?
@@ShawnGilbert1967 I did go with 1.8 roller rockers. I could have just used the 1.7's and probably not have lost much but it felt worth the additional cost to just do the 1.8's.
Massive plenum + long runners + smooth transition into the runners = good power everywhere. There's a reason why the pTR is the best, and the fact that it only costs a few hundred dollars more than the other options AND is adjustable makes it a no-brainer.
Even the PTr is rpm specific
@@richardholdener1727 true, but far less than the Hi-Ram. It matches the MSD pound for pound all the way from 3000RPM. Has anyone done a comparison of the pTR to the XR? I've seen very little testing on that crossram design.
I've seen a few of your tests of Performance Designs manifolds and the have performed very well. They seem to know what they are doing...
Need more ls7 long runner intakes that fit under oem hoods, the Wilson is just too expensive. Maybe the xs ls7 will do that. Btw, that dyno pull to 7700rpm only had ~54psi of oil pressure on the right monitor but about 10psi higher on the left. Why the difference?. Are there any concerns with 54 being too low?
Really want to see the Mamo ported LS7 MSD on these test.
For sure!
yea and a Nick Williams or Katech TB nobody uses Granatelli
@@omegasquad868or the MSD 103 that was designed to be used with it.
Thanks Rich. I’m having a replacement ls7 built.
Would love to see how the ported MSD's on the market for the LS7 perform. I've seen some very good overall numbers using them, but have never been able to run a true A-B comparison in true Richie fashion. American Heritage Performance would be the first place I'd hit up since they're local in SoCal and are LS7 specialists.
I would like to compare a ported version to a stock one
Hit up Tony Mamo. He’s in SoCal as well. Best MSD ports and head designs out there
@@vanjabi8827ironmask, Greg Good, CT porting, and a few others all have far better programs than mamo. Nothing against mamo but his are far from the best
Just imagine the pTr / LSXHR ported with a uniform cross sectional area 4" up from the cylinder head mating surface, and ported transitions of the velocity stacks... then mixing the velocity stack lengths across the manifold to make even more torque and extend the HP up the curve a little more. You get pretty much the same numbers (or better 😉), but with 11.9:1, a smidge smaller camshaft on a 110, running 91 rm^2 pump with a 2.00" primary... on an LS7 crate. Performance Design once again has brought the A-game.
I tried mix and match the runner lengths on a FAST adj intake-it just made less power
@@richardholdener1727 ... less peak power, but what did it do to overall power/torque under the curve ? Not everyone cares about peak dyno numbers. Peak means nothing if I am passing you mid gear, anywhere.
I really am interested in the high ram with the atomic throttle body claim
Where is the dyno run of the stock LS7 intake? All the other intake tests were compared to stock intake manifolds.
I HAVE STOCK LS7 INTAKE VIDS UP
@@richardholdener1727 I have searched several times, and I haven't seen you test the stock LS7 intake. Do you have link to it?
@@utinator7566yes, where ?
At least those intake's are easier to change then sbc no messing with distributor or thermosat hosing so no messy coolant
Carbon r for the win. I mean when you got a 20k$ engine what’s another 2.5k$
Agreed. And if you can afford a built LS7, you can afford that intake as well.
Only $1499 with fuel rails!
Deffinately would like to see what lsxr adjustable length or lsxhr would do on this motor...
Richard can you show typical shift points a torque under the curve.
Richard (or anyone here), have you any experience with Advanced Inductions head work? More specifically, their LS stuff? I had looked at doing their high-comp 241 package on my LS1 a while back where they do a LOT of work, even so far as welding up and reshaping the chambers to bump compression and keep stock p2v clearance, and running one of their spec'd cams for those heads. They're similar to TEA in the work they do but I was wondering if you could look at the high compression 241 work and see what that would do power wise. I'll link it to you if RUclips won't pull the link or email. It's a very extensive and neat head job.
I have not tested that
I've never seen advance induction heads not work well. Good stuff but only communicate via email
Would love to see ls7 intakes
Stock msd vs mamo ported msd vs iron mask ported msd
Nw 103mm tb
iron mask?
Hey Rich, just out of curiousity have you done any Coils and plug wire tests. Some of the manufacturers claim increased power with coils and plug wires so it would be nice to see if they are valid claims or not.
I have tested coils and wires with no change in power unless there was a broken wire or bad coil-if no misfire occurs, there is usually no power gain
Did I miss the throttle body changes
Mr Holdener! Was the MSD ported or opened up, or was it out of the box tested? I know they seem to have a LOT of casting issues and imperfections that need cleaned up, where some of the castings have areas where the polymer flashes over and partially obstructs airflow, and just cleaning up the casting lines can make a huge difference. People are also having excellent gains with porting. Just curious it hear if you've touched it!
out of the box
@@richardholdener1727 so no mamo porting and why not use the NW or Katech 102/103 TB does anybody use the granatelli pieces? nobody on the Corvette forums do thats why im asking
Feel like throttle body options for the brands isn't here
Would be interesting to do a comparison of the stock LS-7 vs. the BES heads, to kinda preface this manifold comparison. Maybe you did, but, I couldn’t find it.
so you want a head test too?
Hey Richard could you try the carbon ptr intake on 5.3 or 6.0s in cathedral port style to see how well it stacks up against other cathedral port intake manifolds I’m curious to see
If I had to guess it’s probably the same results for the most part
@@erikryan9204 I was thinking the same but I wonder how lower hp set ups benefit cuz I have the fast lsx hr on my 243 headed 6.0 and seems to do really well I would like to know how much better it is
How can it be a Stroker ls7 but still 427.
Thanks so much, I have that exact cam in my LS7 with a high ram ( I had the Ptr on back order literally 8 months ), can you tell me what timing made peak power? 31?
Thanks so much for this test confirms a lot of what I thougjt except I thougjt the hi ram would take over a few hundred rpm sooner...the lsxhr would roll out a hair sooner on long stacks..it done great to hold with the msd then pull out the top better...
27
@@richardholdener1727 thanks Richard, i forgot those are stock style combustion chambers with a BES port job, I swear my BR7s want more timing..I'm take it slow, reading plugs and have even adjusted the heat range/tip projection easing up its NEVER not increased MPH with timing..at 31 now slowly over months...at 26 it's a dog...
I think over winter I'm gonna find true top dead center and make sure I don't have some dwell/drift with a timing mark.....just to make sure. I've had a aftermarket injection systems do that before..
For instance it runs on dragy from a dig 10s with a 1.90 60ft @ 127mph+ on virgin 2 lane,( low 7s 1/8th probably mid 6s track with a 1.5x 60ft) no prep or water burn out with some SS radials just a clean off n go...
If I put that back on 26 it would drop half a second and 5mph, ask me how I know...I was very hesitant but since it was severely under performing on those saner timings I started easing up ( adding a little fuel as well )..
I also see why it's never went slower as I've adding shift rpm by 100 increments...based on your chart with same cam, intake, ci, rockers, springs and headers I should shift around 7600-7700, I know it likes it but again easing up on it....( wasn't using dragy past 7400 shifts got to try it again this fall )...flex sensor is up and working it's on 93 ( e20ish) and I have a timing pull for anything under e50 in it......
It won't spin a tire on 24 degrees, it also like 13.1 ish AFR on E...
I guess I need to verify timing and then go ahead and get it on a chassis dyno, it's to expensive an engine for my old school ways. It was darton sleeved built for boost then life happened....
Thanks for the test it's damn near identical, if those are the size and flow BES ports I think they are...
Thanks again for including that timing info, from research i know the stock chambers really like that area especially with added compression but if my indication is true these Brodix BR7 chambers want more and I have flat tops with a good .038 quench shrugs...
@@ShawnGilbert1967 Something we've talked about here in the comments before is how much variation we see between Rich's dyno timing and what we usually log with stock ECU (E38/E67) and hptuners. He typically sees peak power at much lower timing values then I do, but he's using Holley, Haltech, etc. vs. stock ECUs. I think there may be a little difference in how GM references base timing vs. the aftermarket stuff because there is no way Rich is consistently running that much less timing than those of us on the stock ECU hardware and getting similar power (for example on my LSA engine on E85 I'm running 27-28 deg, he's getting peak power in the low 20s). This would fit with your results as well. I doubt the head is going to require 5 deg diff.
just give it what it wants, but do so safely
Thank you for these videos
Would the atomic be good on a 5.3 or would the tbss be better?
Fast is the best
Is there such thing as a cam specific for a carburetor LS build? I remeber decades ago you would see FI cams for SBC just wondering.
people will tell you there is, but every EFI cam works with a carb too (and vice versa)
Ever test a dual plenum for boost?
yes-it does the same thing as it does NA
Richard will the PTr take boost?
yes
Richard I’m building a 408 with a 88mm FIS turbo and plan to use nitrous. I really like that PTr intake but worried if it would take it. What’s your thoughts on it?
I wonder if the X means the lobe is asemetrical. I can't think of any other reason for the X.
I think it’s so they don’t reveal the exact specs
It's to hide the specs.
However, I have heard from a reputable source that the exhaust duration is 266 on this cam.
@@C6Z_Bob they can't hide much with the last digit on the ex side.a person could put a degree wheel on it and easily measure it.
Have you ever tested to see what a lightweight rotating assembly does for power?
I did a test with a light flywheel and drive plate-it adds power
Richard, without asking "what your thoughts are" about this,...have you seen Blueprint Engines new 4cyl LS headed engine theyve been showing off? I dont think its available retail yet as it was shown off at a show initially, but its got some neat features. I think its 3.6l and will accept an LS head, OR Ford Windsor head. Im not sure if that means two different engines will be available or theyve made it where either will bolt to the same block. Its based off some 4cyl GM engine used in industrial apps. Supposedly has pistons and rods that are standard small block stuff, so interchangeable, a stout crank, and in stock bore VERY thick cyl walls. They tested ot boosted and it made some cool (albeit odd) numbers, almost diesel like lol. ruclips.net/video/wi7S5oHXL8c/видео.html
When I last checked-it was not going to be offered
@richardholdener1727 Did BP come out and say that? I know it was a "prototype" of sorts, but man they hyped it up like it was a serious possibility. That thing spread like wildfire after debuting at the show. I'd like to know the true potential of the little 4cyl if boosted higher, and how difficult getting a camshaft/valvetrain made for it would've been.
Can Performance Design confirm or deny that their carbon fiber manifold is the same as the FAST LSXHR?
Upon good authority, I can say that Performance Design did the development and prototyping for Fast... considering that the pTr was available before the release of the Fast LSXHR. Well, I received mine before Fast released the existence of the LSXHR, anyway. However, I can not speak for them... I will let Caleb or Jason be the horse.
Why don’t you ever run a cid intake?
I've never owned one
BEHOLD! MY COMMENT!!
Is there an adapter plate so I can run ls7 intake on ls3 heads
a stock ls7 intake?
@richardholdener1727 it's a holley sniper dual flanges intake sort of like the tunnel ram intake. I trade it for a cam thinking it would fit but doesn't fit ls3 heads
Part # 830071 I didn't have a part number til I got home and looked up the intake
Hi Richard
The atomic throttle body data claim of the manufacturer didn't get a shake
what is an atomic throttle body?
@@richardholdener1727 msd 2945
what is the claim-we ran one of the 92mm version way back-not a fan of the design
@@richardholdener1727 they say 103 is better than 105 by alot from any mfg
does the 103 flow more than a 105?
first
Would love to see a BTR Trinity and Ironmask short runner MSD thrown in the mix for a future test!
More 392 hemi stuff
Sexy carbon fiber!!!! and it works
Get better 🐕Richard! 😿
swimming incident-it was awesome
@@richardholdener1727 😹👍🏿
Hopefully you've gotten your rabies shot, Richard! :o)
Shame LS7 is done
Personally, I blame golden retrievers 🦮
LOL
Oooooh! Take that Mr squirrel!
Sounds Rough!!!
@@michaelgarrow3239 you saw what Scruffles did to Rich......
@@hoost3056 - Um,,, no. What happened?
Somebody get excessively licked?
Not judging or anything… 🙄
ITBs next?!