If you left Christianity and your life is going well, that's because the devil wants you to be comfortable. If you left Christianity and your life is going poorly, that's the influence of satan wreaking havoc on your life. "Heads I win, tails you lose," you have to realize with theists in general it's not about a pursuit for the truth, it's about the twist-yourself-into-a-pretzel olympics.
And also not even Biblically accurate. The one dude who was explicitly said to be perfect by God himself in the Bible said that you have to take the good along with the evil from God. And God himself says he's the cause of evil. Its dumb. Most Christians don't read their Bibles outside of a few stories and verses if at all and religious leaders know this. That's why they're able get away with saying the things they do.
You should see what happens when you tell them their god created Evil. Their brains explode and they call you all kinds of names and say you are a liar. You get them to claim that their god is all powerful, so then you can tell them that if that is true, than an all powerful being who creates evil is by definition Responsible for all evil. Then you give them the bible quote. It just destroyed all of their delusions.
"no, no, no, you're STRAWMANNING, god OBVIOUSLY, CLEARLY has a GREATER GOOD to accomplish, you just cant understand it cuz you're a PUNY MORTAL and he's INFINITELY WISE you FOOL" - some evangelical or smth...
When I think of an apologist I think of a professional con artist who knows true full of shit but use their intelligence to deceive to convert ppl to their religion. The caller is just a confused person 😂
@@littlebitofhope1489 Or they just dig deeper into their delusions. 🤷♂️ There's a story where God has a spirit in his heavenly court that can turn into a lying spirit and posses multiple people at once to convince a king to get himself killed. And God signs off on the actions of this spirit. You can show them this and they'll say that we aren't interpreting it right and/or to consult a spiritual leader to understand it. I promise you that if they are deep enough in their delusion, they will close their eyes and ears.
Forrest was on the nose when he said Andrew doesn't think through anything and just says the first thing that comes to his mind. And it was so obvious when talking about divorce. You can tell he was only thinking about the man in that scenario and saying that it would be a bad thing for him to divorce. Especially when Matt and Forrest started grilling him that it would be bad for the family as a whole if he stayed with them. He got super defensive after that, which proves everything they were saying about him.
Well, of course. Andrew is an adult man. Andrew is a Christian. Andrew hasn't the empathy needed to consider the rights or feelings of a woman and children.
@@lampad4549 Whenever the fates of women and children slaves under biblical law were brought up, he'd address them not at all. And they were brought up a few times to illustrate the sheer malevolence of that primitive people. they were expressly brought up to show that men COULD go free, but any women or children bound to him were kept as hostages. The fate of such hostages sailed out of that man's mind only the second it entered.
Silly quote that treats religion like it's something special. For anyone to do anything, including "good" people doing "evil", It just takes any sufficiently desirable reward. A good person may do evil to satisfy their addiction, for example.
@@budd2nd No, my point has nothing do with how damaging religion or addiction is. My only point is that there can be sufficiently desirable rewards to do evil things outside of religion.
These are awesome! Great job! As an ex-mormon, my wife and I say that what is healthy about mormonism is not unique and what is unique about mormonism is not healthy. Can apply to religion generally, I think. Keep up the great work!!
"Democratic religion" is something right out of the George Carlin list of oxymorons alongside "jumbo shrimp", "military intelligence" and "political science".
I laughed at the military intelligence one lmfao, im former army, infantry specifically, and boy you are right, i once saw an officer fresh out of college tell a 34 yr career sgt major to stand at attention when speaking to him and lmfao showed how NOT intelligent that officer was lmfao rofl, the hell that followed was worthy of the biblical apocalypse
@@sarahann530 yes ok IM RANK ONLY imagine telling your own father "listen to me when i talk to you boy" its the same logic, the sgt major has time in service and his career is older than the LT that is my point, in our line of work an LT may outrank a sgt major, but the sgt major gets the final say lmfao, UNLESS the full bird is there, but yea that would be like a private telling a first sergeant to stand at parade rest lmfao
It just kills me how much these callers get cornered by their own beliefs and then look desperately for a trap door to slip out of that corner, like a child would when he got caught stealing cookies from the cupboard. Embarrasing.
"he shouldn't be allowed to get divorced" "so you're forcing him to stay" "now you're being dishonest and putting words in my mouth" you can't make this shit up
It makes zero sense until you realize deep down Andrew KNEW he was caught lying and speaking on his emotions/feelings rather than logical truths or evidence. That's why he got frustrated, called the pot black, and hung up. He KNOWS his logic was clearly shown to be faulty and instead of admitting to being incorrect and correcting himself, the ego takes over and the refusal to let go of personal belief (for whatever reason) leads them to shut down angrily. I see it every time my mother and I talk about religion. I catch her in "traps" like that and she just gets super angry because she knows I'm making a totally valid point against her religion, and she can't refute it so instead she frames it as personal attacks on her beliefs or something instead. It's all so slippery and slimy and dishonest and gross, and most of all unfortunately, very common.
These debates are so frustrating to watch man. Religion has literally brainwashed their mind so much that it’s literally impossible for them to see logic
I've had one argue with me that since logic can only be validated with logic it's circular reasoning and so since it takes faith to believe in logic then all faith is justified.
@@Apostolnixx it's like saying: since logic can only be validated with logic then I'm justified in believing that I can shoot lasers from my eyes, rainbows from my ass, and that I'm also a dinosaur...if I believe those things on faith of course :)
This guy is the perfect example. Religion stops people from thinking critically about everything. It uses threats and punishment to stop people evaluating thenselves, and it spreads to everything else in their life. Then they vote.
My favorite quote in reference to the way their brains shut down comes from a fantasy book I enjoy. Wizard's first rule (book title and lesson) People Are Stupid: they will believe anything because they fear it is true or they hope it is true.
'to stop people evaluating themselves.' now if this conclusion is true then punishments and threats would obviously inflame the very issue of self evaluation. 'Religion stops people from thinking critically about everything.' The word 'catholic' is derived from καθόλου (katholou) 'on the whole, according to the whole, in general', and is a combination of the Greek words κατά (kata) 'about' and ὅλος (holos) 'whole' We proudly say that because we consider everything. We consider the matter, form, ends, and causes of human life. This must be a great relief for you. But it gets better, for the entire Bible is a story of Salvation. Salvation per se requires critical thinking about everything, from your own actions, words, thoughts and more! You will love this last part as well: Salvation is inherently not about threats and punishments! For it as about how, in the end, reconciliation, charity, mercy, and humility are the common law of our teleology. God bless, Stephen!
Forrest cracks me up. I think Matt has done this kind of thing so long, he is never surprised by anything. I think Forrest is still surprised sometimes, and it entertains him, and makes him just laugh and laugh. It's actually kind of fun.
What I love about Forrest too is that he's young enough to understand a different style of humor. I love watching Matt's calls but he's very short tempered, strictly debate/argument oriented and clearly sick of hearing the same shit after doing so much of this, so his jokes and humor are more and more rare, but Forrest is full of sarcasm and meme-y humor backed by actual scientific knowledge, and that's in addition to great, charismatic energy. Makes the dynamic between them pretty interesting.
Of course! Who needs that pesky critical thinking skill? It just gets in the way of peace and love and donating money to the church and human rights. Damn pesky critical thinking.
When he said a theocracy would work if it's done democratically... like thank goodness I was too tired otherwise the facepalm to my skull would have sent me to the ER!!!
My ex broke up with me in the name of god. During the break up, i asked her if god really loves us, why is he making us break up? She said “god loves us, thats why he’s making me do this.” After extensive research, I am proud to say that I am now a reborn atheist and I’m grateful to join the realm of the free thinkers!!!!! PS, I’m sure y'all can figure out what religion she was forcefully indoctrinated in without any hesitation😁
It does. Now I'm convinced that Jesus wasn't actually dead just like the parrot. He was just sleeping. That would explain the resurrection rather easily.
10:32 "Because having an allmighty deity in the heads of people that can punish them for their actions and thoughts makes people obedient." That would have been an honest answer.
You can also find a passage that refutes it. It's the Big Book of Multiple Choice. What passages people choose tells you more about them than it does about the bible.
About 2 years ago I was at the doctor a woman was talking in the waiting room about a storm that went through the area a week earlier she said a tornado touched down in a trailer park and destroyed several homes where they were making drugs then she said god got rid of those sinners and in the same breath she said that the devil used that damned storm to destroy her pastors home and 3 others of the "righteous" how evil is that so I asked her which one caused the storm the devil or god get this she said god caused it to punish sinners but the devil took it over so I asked so the devil is stronger than god she shut up and refused to look at me again and I finally got some peace
I'm glad Forest called him out on how shallow his thought process is. Dude really suffers from Dunning Kruger. He thinks he is this deep well of knowledge. A few questions from Forest and it turns out he is a deep as a puddle of mud.
I sat in on my kids' Mormon lesson, Sunday. The teachers literally said, in answer to the question, "How do you know it's God talking to you and not your own mind?", that you can know because if it's good it's from God and if it's bad it's not. 🙄
How can you know it is good, though, if good is what god wants. This is all so obviously circular bullsh*t crap, it doesn't stand up to the scrutiny of a small child. (And they know it deep down; that is why they don't allow kids to scrutinize it before they have been brainwashed, I guess.)
@Oomph6006 the Muslims didn't misunderstand gods plan. They just had a plan from a different god. And, as we all know....."my god's better than your god. My god's better I know-oh-oh-ooohhh"
Matt actually got way worse in last 2'ish years, he gets angry really quickly for any tiny thing. Best Matt was from like 8 years ago when he used same knowledge and same good arguments without screaming at every caller like they are threatening him with a knife or something.
@RobCarlisle I like when people avoid dancing around the bush and goes straight to the meat, which Matt was excellent at doing, but now... I just keep thinking "Please, Matt, just shut the f**k up and and breath for a moment, your behavior isn't helping anyone here" it's no longer interesting to watch call in shows with Matt in it, atleast not for me. Formal debates are still good as he then keeps his cool and avoids doing this silly shouting match even when opposition does extra stupid things. So maybe all this is just for show, but in any case, not a good look.
Many Catholics will, for example, attribute the efforts of some Catholics to shelter Jews during WWII to the teachings of the Catholic Church but then claim the church shouldn't be criticized for a few bad apples who were Nazis or who facilitated their escape to South America after the war. German Catholics hated the Jews. The church hierarchy worked very hard to help Nazis avoid prosecution after the war.
It's worth noting that this individual has called Jimmy during a solo hosted show and on several occasions afterwards, presenting strikingly similar, if not identical, versions of his arguments despite being pushed back and even conceding at times. Moreover, he continues to call in with further points, often pulling things out of thin air without justification or considering the consequences. At this point, it's hard to determine whether this individual is actually listening to the hosts or considering anything they say or not.
When Andrew said that he is religious/christian because it's a fundamental part of being a human, what he really meant is that it's a fundamental part of him, and who he is. He can't imagine life as a non Christian. I get that, because I was raised that way. All your life, you're made to believe that this is absolutely everything to you. You're supposed to put God and faith first, before yourself, your family, everything, and anyone who doesn't do that is evil. You're not allowed to argue or even question that dogma. Literally everything good comes from God and everything bad is because you personally it humanity in general, falls short of God's glory and thus the bad is deserved and the good is an underserved gift. When that is so deeply ingrained that you thank God when you find a good parking spot, and blame yourself when something bad happens that was completely out of your control, it's hard to imagine how to even function without believing in God. And then you're indoctrinated to believe that literally every good aspect of human character and society came from God, and specifically from your religion spreading the 'good word', then religion must seem integral to being human. In church, I was taught that Christianity was the source of the concept of compassion, that literally all other cultures and religions were far more brutal and savage, so even the bad acts of christians in the past could be excused because the other cultures were so much worse, but the chrisians introduced the idea of compassion, and that's why missionaries and colonialism was generally successful and ultimately good despite it's 'flaws'. When I first started to accept that I had no good reason to continue to hold onto my religious beliefs, it was hard. It felt like my whole world was crumbling because everything was based on my christianity. That's why I really like the concept of religious deconstruction. Because you really do have to deconstruct your entire world view, all is your beliefs and what you think about reality and history, and relearn everything. It is a real journey and has taken me over a year to get to this point, but my foundation feels much stronger that ever before.
Well said..the key word.. religious deconstruction..for some it is easy..for many it takes years.. mainly bcos of the environment you are in..n your social circle.. family..
The caller's example of when divorce is bad which he brought up himself: A man cheats on his wife and divorce to run away from his family. Caller says he never said this... Matt and Forrest are only talking about this specific example because the caller brought it up!
8:44 I love Matt's question here: "How do you know it's good?" (8:59). Different people & different cultures, in different times, will have different ideas about what are the "good parts" and what the "bad parts" of the Bible. Andrew probably just thinks it's intuitive. But, I'm sure if he grew up in a different time and/or place, his so called intuitions would be different.
Loving your neighbours as you love yourself is not a good thing not everyone likes to be treated the same way treating people how they wish to be treated is so much better
I think they honestly think they just blurt out anything that comes into their head, without thinking it through. I was just listening to another video. Where the caller says Matt needed to drop his scientific mind to find god. Then Matt said why would he drop the most reliable method of determining truth, to believe deluded stuff like the caller. The caller then claimed that he follows the science at it led him to the truth of god. Matt then said if following the science can lead to god. Why did you just say I had to drop my scientific mind to find god. Then there was a long silent pause. Then the caller started talking about something else.
Severe lack of critical thinking skills. It's entertaining for people who do have them, to watch people like Andrew flounder and be terrified of examining the validity of their own beliefs. It is sad though.
Matt: Why arent you a secular humanist and instead you claim that God inspired something that you cant know he inspired? Andrew deep inside: Because i cant get rid of my nonsensical sky daddy 😢
If it was democratic was *your* caveat! How do these people decide the topic and then not understand the topic? It's their topic! They picked the topic!
Which doesn't work, how could a society ruled by an invisible dictator that we cannot question be democratic? (It's a rhetorical question, it can't) Where it has been tried it's not even that invisible dictator making the rules, it's the people who "know what he wants and thinks" that make the rules and it's usually to make them insanely wealthy and provide them with women to fuck. Also God's rules do not apply to them, they are "prophets" or "Gods emissaries on earth" so they are above all law. For examples you can look to Paul, Mohammed and Joseph Smith as well as every theocratic society that has ever existed.
As Forrest pointed out, the guy really doesn't take more than 5 seconds to think through what he's saying and scurries on to the next point the second his argument gets poked so full of holes that there isn't even a ship left to sink.
You learn something new every day. Until now, I thought I was an atheist, but apparently I am a christian instead. Like Andrew, I believe in all the parts of the bible, of which I personally think they are good and true and I disbelieve in all the parts of the bible, of which I personally think, they are false and evil. And like him, I also don´t know parts of the bible. And I also find it perfectly plausible, that Jesus is the ultimate something, of which I have no idea, what it actually means. Or does it matter for some reason, that the whole god part of the bible is something I do neither believe in, nor regard it as "good"? It is a true mystery.
I have been saying this for years. I was in a Christian recovery center many years ago, and there would always be announcements that someone who had left the program was in the hospital for whatever reason and we would get in a circle, hold hands, and pray for them. Whenever we would get a report about the outcome of what we were praying for, no matter how it turned out, it was God. If their situation improved, it was God. If they died, it was also God. I was 20 years old and questioning it then. I'm 52 now, and I think I understand a little better now what's going on.
Its hilarious to me that he tried to act like he as the high ground and hung up because they were "being dishonest" right after he dishonestly tried to frame getting divorced as evil by throwing in that the hypothetical guy abandoned his kids. He knows that getting a divorce because you don't want to be together anymore isn't evil but he has to frame it that way to make his point. Nice try Andrew but literally no one thinks you left this conversation with the high ground.
The religious can’t get past all these hypocrisy’s and pot holes. These just can’t get through it. If there WAS an actual god? That would NEVER be possible to happen….period.
And naturally Andrew lacks the forethought to realise that parts he doesn't agree with are "the good parts" to other Christians. THAT will only raise the subject of what makes a *TRUE* Christian, and I think we all know how that would go with this particular caller...
What stood out early in the call was Andrew's attempt to conflate Theocracy with democracy. The fact is they're a contradiction in terms. After all, we're talking about three Greek words: "Theos", "demos" and "kratos". As we all know, "theos" is the word for "god", "demos" is the word for "people" and "kratos" is the word for "government". Theocracy ("government of God" or, in lieu thereof, his self-professed representatives) is, by its very nature, diametrically opposed to democracy ("government of the people") and vice versa. Recent legislation by Theocratic politicians here in the United States is proof thereof. Such politicians call themselves "Republicans", from a term which connotes representation. But, with regard to such politicians, the question becomes: "Whom do they truly represent?" The type of legislation they pursue indicates that they don't represent the people in their districts. Consequently, they must of necessity see themselves as representatives of some deity whose existence has, to date, never been demostrated, let alone evidenced. Is this what Andrew has in mind when advocating for a "democratic" form of Theocracy? In light of his answer to the question on divorce when a husband doesn't care enough about his wife and any children and leaves, it appears that this is precisely what he means. Andrew would force the wife and any children to remain with someone who clearly wants nothing to do with them. That's a strictly Theocratic answer to the divorce question. Nowhere in that is there support for democracy.
He's so fucking close to understanding you don't need a God to have a moral framework but just can't let go of the nonsense magic story. He literally describes how he implements secular humanism to judge what he determines to be right vs wrong then turns around and assert there still must be a God? What the fuck man. That's like acknowledging how an internal combustion engine works and agreeing it's a valid way to get places quickly and then immediately saying "yea but there's still definitely 4th dimension car fairies that make all this shit work".
In the _Mr. Deity_ video _Mr. Deity and the Messages_ the title character goes through his answering machine messages. He explains to -Jesse- Jesus that he rarely acts on prayer because when good things happen he gets all the credit but when bad things happen he gets none of the blame, and he has no incentive to change that.
Turns out Andrew called in with roughly the same script around six months ago. After watching all three of his calls I really don't think he's willing to listen/learn, especially because it's over months He wants religion to be good, and can't see where it causes harm. Hell, he brought up how Saudi Arabia is a great example of a theocracy that we should be following!
"I'm going to call in with what I think are solid arguments. Even though I haven't considered AT ALL what my solid arguments might be challenged with....I'm going to call in anyway."
Cherry picking the Bible in its most basic form. "I just focus on the good parts of the Bible and ignore all that bad stuff." even though plenty of people do the worst things to others in the name of their gods that atheists would never do in the name of god not existing.
To be fair, "In Christianity, the term secular clergy refers to deacons and priests who are not monastics or otherwise members of religious life." As opposed to "regular" (following the rule). Perhaps Andrew should look into the usages of the word "secular"...
If good, it's God's work. If bad, nothing but the devil. If good but turns bad, "the lord gives and takes away" If bad but turns good, a blessing in disguise.
Andrew just keeps running the same play and refusing to learn a damn thing. I used to have hope for him, but I've been convinced by listening to so so so many of his calls that he is actively refusing to think or is incapable of thinking beyond the most superficial level.
"Good people will do good things. Bad people will do bad things. But it takes religion to cause a good person to do bad things." My favorite quote. Because a good person could do bad things when they feel their religion or magic sky wizard justifies it.
The thing about religion is that it is COMPOSED of people, and unlike politics you aren't forced to participate. For example, with politics (especially here in the U.S.) if you don't like what the Democratic Party does, your only viable alternative in most circumstances is the Republican Party. If you disagree even MORE with the Republican Party, then you don't have many choices left. You can either go back to voting for the Democratic Party, or not vote at all. Either way though, you are forced to live under the rule of whichever one wins, regardless of who you did or didn't vote for. On the flipside, if you are Catholic then you default support the actions of the Catholic Church. If you don't like what the Catholic Church does, then you have full freedom to simply eject yourself from the religion and start up a new one, find one that appeals to you, or simply go without a religion at all. Even better, if you do so you will not find yourself in a locality, state, or country controlled by the Catholic Church (unless you live in the Vatican I suppose). So all of the PEOPLE who are part of the Catholic Church are at least complicit in the actions of the Catholic Church, period. To claim that religion is only bad because of people is like saying that a certain restaurant is only bad because of the people working there. Well yeah, what else could it be...
The Republican party is not a viable alternative to *anything* right now. It is crooked, nasty, treacherous, stupid - you name the adjective, they have it covered.
The doctrine dude. If the restaurant has bad ingredients the food will be bad too. Same with a bad menu that claims you’ll burn in hellfire if you go to any other restaurant. It’s not just the people it’s the people *and the doctrine*
So what about women who need reproductive healthcare in a state run by religious folk who ban it? Are they not forced, one way or another, to participate in that fucked up system?
@@Theproclaimed And who makes the menu? Who buys the ingredients? The only way you can claim it is the people AND something else is if that something else came from something other than the people. As we have seen, religion has changed as people have, so the only actual source for doctrine is... the people.
every time that i hear it's "andrew from florida" i just think "oh no." and i brace myself. also, jimmy's outro on these videos is SO loud. i often watch these at night and need to be quiet (and headphones aren't an option for me). it would be really nice if they made that outro quieter or, at least; gave a few seconds of warning it was coming. then i could at least pause or turn down volume before it.
If you are a theist that argues fine tuning then please consider: The amount of air where humans could survive in is about 10^10 cubic meters, The volume of the observable universe where no humans live is about 10^80 cubic meters. So this supposed fine tuned universe is about ninety nine point 9999999999 9999999999 9999999999 , wait, not done 9999999999 9999999999 9999999999 99999999 - percent NOT made for us. That is not fine tuned for humans.
I'm glad Andrew came back, but I see that what happened last time didn't totally click. Maybe this time will be different for him! Either way, love to hear from him! Keep being respectful and keep asking questions, Andrew!
The skeptic does not mean him who doubts, but him who investigates or researches, as opposed to him who asserts and thinks that he has found. -- Miguel de Unamuno, Essays and Soliloquies, "My Religion" (1924)
This is embarrassing for the caller. They were literally insulting him to his face at the end asking if he ever examines his thoughts or just spews his thoughts out 😂😂
Andrew is just spewing crap hoping something will stick. All the while knowing what the hosts are going to ask because he’s called in before. Andrew probably has no clue about Andrew. 😂😂😂
He sounds like the church I was in. If a prophecy sounds okay, it is from god. If it obviously wrong, then it was obviously not from god. You just have to use discernment.
When trying to be as good faith as possible while thinking of this topic I have kind of reached the conclusion that it would actually be a clever way to weed out fake Christian’s from true Christian’s. If something in the book was actually completely at odds with the rest of it, then only the blind believers who don’t seek to understand anything would actually believe. Sadly the Bible isn’t at odds with slavery.
Every day I get more and more understanding why people turn to religion. Critical thinking is so low and unprioritized that people are literally saying “I want a democratic theocracy of a religion that is not democratic and I should be able to choose which parts of the Bible are to be followed but I’m not telling people how to live” The obliviousness of circular reasoning and hypocrisy is astounding 😐
They turned to religion because they don't think critically, or they don't think critically because they turned to religion? Religion should be kept away from kids so they can develop normally. If, as an adult, you choose to pursue it, so be it, but then hardly anybody ever would.
Okay side note, how many callers from Florida are named Andrew? Either this guy is a regular, there are a lot of callers named Andrew from Florida, or I've had some pretty interesting probabilities occur
So his position is basically: 1. You can judge using your own thoughts whether something is good or bad, by applying humanist principles like for example a utilitarian calculus 2. Coming up with something good doesn't work this way, you can't possibly come up with it yourself, but instead, God must put that thought in your mind somehow 3. The Bible is not actually a perfect book, but simply a book with good things in it, which, arguing from point 2, must be inspired by God. The first inconsistency I find with this is that this doesn't actually favor Christianity as being the one religion ordained by God, as there exist other views on God that happen to feature a larger ratio of positive moral advice. The second problem I find is that point 2 is easily refuted, as it's easy to come up with an explanation of how a human could invent a morally good concept. The explanation is simple: Humans are good at problem solving, including being able to plan which course of action maximizes a given standard, and generalizing this approach.That humans can do this without intervention from God is proved by examples of a human making plans to maximize a morally bad standard, for example when planning a murder. Since access to a *good* standard is already granted in point 1, we can conclude that humans are able to invent morally good concepts, contradicting point 2.
![Quando Rondo - Grow Up [Official Music Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/8zFnCg3BO4Q/mqdefault.jpg)
If good, God gets praised. When bad, God gets a pass ["works in mysterious ways"]. That's convenient & self-serving.
If you are all powerful, knowing and seeing, and you create Evil, you cannot by definition be good. It's impossible.
If you left Christianity and your life is going well, that's because the devil wants you to be comfortable. If you left Christianity and your life is going poorly, that's the influence of satan wreaking havoc on your life.
"Heads I win, tails you lose," you have to realize with theists in general it's not about a pursuit for the truth, it's about the twist-yourself-into-a-pretzel olympics.
Special pleading’s a hell of a drug.😮
And also not even Biblically accurate. The one dude who was explicitly said to be perfect by God himself in the Bible said that you have to take the good along with the evil from God.
And God himself says he's the cause of evil.
Its dumb. Most Christians don't read their Bibles outside of a few stories and verses if at all and religious leaders know this.
That's why they're able get away with saying the things they do.
I think it could be quite simple. If "created in his image", simplicity, perhaps God is not all loving
Christian apologists willfully ignore all the terrible things that the God in the Bible has done
You should see what happens when you tell them their god created Evil. Their brains explode and they call you all kinds of names and say you are a liar. You get them to claim that their god is all powerful, so then you can tell them that if that is true, than an all powerful being who creates evil is by definition Responsible for all evil. Then you give them the bible quote. It just destroyed all of their delusions.
"no, no, no, you're STRAWMANNING, god OBVIOUSLY, CLEARLY has a GREATER GOOD to accomplish, you just cant understand it cuz you're a PUNY MORTAL and he's INFINITELY WISE you FOOL" - some evangelical or smth...
They _have_ _to_ .
When I think of an apologist I think of a professional con artist who knows true full of shit but use their intelligence to deceive to convert ppl to their religion. The caller is just a confused person 😂
@@littlebitofhope1489
Or they just dig deeper into their delusions. 🤷♂️
There's a story where God has a spirit in his heavenly court that can turn into a lying spirit and posses multiple people at once to convince a king to get himself killed. And God signs off on the actions of this spirit.
You can show them this and they'll say that we aren't interpreting it right and/or to consult a spiritual leader to understand it.
I promise you that if they are deep enough in their delusion, they will close their eyes and ears.
The same argument he makes for religion, was made for Fascism in the 1930s
Forrest was on the nose when he said Andrew doesn't think through anything and just says the first thing that comes to his mind. And it was so obvious when talking about divorce. You can tell he was only thinking about the man in that scenario and saying that it would be a bad thing for him to divorce. Especially when Matt and Forrest started grilling him that it would be bad for the family as a whole if he stayed with them. He got super defensive after that, which proves everything they were saying about him.
Well, of course.
Andrew is an adult man. Andrew is a Christian.
Andrew hasn't the empathy needed to consider the rights or feelings of a woman and children.
Andrew has (much like Flat Earthers or Young Earth Creationists) a playbook and is unable to work outside of it.
@@kentonbaird1723where did you get that from?
@@Ugly_German_Truthsdont think that either the guy didnt look like he had coherent set of arguments.
@@lampad4549 Whenever the fates of women and children slaves under biblical law were brought up, he'd address them not at all.
And they were brought up a few times to illustrate the sheer malevolence of that primitive people. they were expressly brought up to show that men COULD go free, but any women or children bound to him were kept as hostages.
The fate of such hostages sailed out of that man's mind only the second it entered.
Religion destroys a person's ability to think critically. Case in point.
Government does the same thing.
Or they became religious, because they were incapable of thinking critically in the first place...
@@DomRoy-w7r
If people could truly think critically they would not follow religions or governments.
@areuaware6842
Is anarchy good?
@@draxthemsklonst , Anarchy is a myth told by religions and governments.
"With or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil - that takes religion."
Silly quote that treats religion like it's something special. For anyone to do anything, including "good" people doing "evil", It just takes any sufficiently desirable reward. A good person may do evil to satisfy their addiction, for example.
@@skeptyka
So are you saying that religion is as damaging to peoples judgement and lives, as addiction is?
Good people can do evil without religion too
@@budd2nd No, my point has nothing do with how damaging religion or addiction is. My only point is that there can be sufficiently desirable rewards to do evil things outside of religion.
@@skeptyka "It just takes any sufficiently desirable reward" Curious way of saying religion with extra steps.
These are awesome! Great job! As an ex-mormon, my wife and I say that what is healthy about mormonism is not unique and what is unique about mormonism is not healthy. Can apply to religion generally, I think. Keep up the great work!!
"Democratic religion" is something right out of the George Carlin list of oxymorons alongside "jumbo shrimp", "military intelligence" and "political science".
I laughed at the military intelligence one lmfao, im former army, infantry specifically, and boy you are right, i once saw an officer fresh out of college tell a 34 yr career sgt major to stand at attention when speaking to him and lmfao showed how NOT intelligent that officer was lmfao rofl, the hell that followed was worthy of the biblical apocalypse
"Billionaire Philantrophist" comes also to mind.
@@themanwithnoname1839 The Officer is senior to the Sgt Major .
I second the military intelligence one since i used to be infantry in the army lmfao, them officers are dumb as fuckin hell!!!
@@sarahann530 yes ok IM RANK ONLY imagine telling your own father "listen to me when i talk to you boy" its the same logic, the sgt major has time in service and his career is older than the LT that is my point, in our line of work an LT may outrank a sgt major, but the sgt major gets the final say lmfao, UNLESS the full bird is there, but yea that would be like a private telling a first sergeant to stand at parade rest lmfao
It just kills me how much these callers get cornered by their own beliefs and then look desperately for a trap door to slip out of that corner, like a child would when he got caught stealing cookies from the cupboard. Embarrasing.
Chad Children admit they stole it and bake a new batch of cookies by themselves
"he shouldn't be allowed to get divorced"
"so you're forcing him to stay"
"now you're being dishonest and putting words in my mouth"
you can't make this shit up
"The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt.”
- Bertrand Russell
It makes zero sense until you realize deep down Andrew KNEW he was caught lying and speaking on his emotions/feelings rather than logical truths or evidence. That's why he got frustrated, called the pot black, and hung up. He KNOWS his logic was clearly shown to be faulty and instead of admitting to being incorrect and correcting himself, the ego takes over and the refusal to let go of personal belief (for whatever reason) leads them to shut down angrily. I see it every time my mother and I talk about religion. I catch her in "traps" like that and she just gets super angry because she knows I'm making a totally valid point against her religion, and she can't refute it so instead she frames it as personal attacks on her beliefs or something instead. It's all so slippery and slimy and dishonest and gross, and most of all unfortunately, very common.
These debates are so frustrating to watch man. Religion has literally brainwashed their mind so much that it’s literally impossible for them to see logic
It's not a debate, it's not even a discussion. It's just someone with some ideas he have never thought through trying to justify them.
I've had one argue with me that since logic can only be validated with logic it's circular reasoning and so since it takes faith to believe in logic then all faith is justified.
@@Akira-jd2zrfair 😂
@@Apostolnixx it's like saying: since logic can only be validated with logic then I'm justified in believing that I can shoot lasers from my eyes, rainbows from my ass, and that I'm also a dinosaur...if I believe those things on faith of course :)
@@Akira-jd2zrAll praise to the eye laser shooting, ass rainbow producing, dinosaur! 🙌🏻🙏🏻😇
This guy is the perfect example. Religion stops people from thinking critically about everything. It uses threats and punishment to stop people evaluating thenselves, and it spreads to everything else in their life. Then they vote.
👍👍👍
Absolutely. It gets people to suspend their critical thinking (if they had any) and tyen brainwashes them into an evil, controlling dogma.
My favorite quote in reference to the way their brains shut down comes from a fantasy book I enjoy.
Wizard's first rule (book title and lesson)
People Are Stupid: they will believe anything because they fear it is true or they hope it is true.
yeah1 unfortunately they vote😒i wish they'd make a critical thinking test and only ppl who pass that r allowed to vote😢
'to stop people evaluating themselves.' now if this conclusion is true then punishments and threats would obviously inflame the very issue of self evaluation. 'Religion stops people from thinking critically about everything.' The word 'catholic' is derived from καθόλου (katholou) 'on the whole, according to the whole, in general', and is a combination of the Greek words κατά (kata) 'about' and ὅλος (holos) 'whole' We proudly say that because we consider everything. We consider the matter, form, ends, and causes of human life. This must be a great relief for you. But it gets better, for the entire Bible is a story of Salvation. Salvation per se requires critical thinking about everything, from your own actions, words, thoughts and more! You will love this last part as well: Salvation is inherently not about threats and punishments! For it as about how, in the end, reconciliation, charity, mercy, and humility are the common law of our teleology. God bless, Stephen!
Forrest cracks me up. I think Matt has done this kind of thing so long, he is never surprised by anything. I think Forrest is still surprised sometimes, and it entertains him, and makes him just laugh and laugh. It's actually kind of fun.
and when Matt says, Are you fucking kidding me? Is there a God? and then Forrest says, that's two questions. I lost it. that was really funny.
What I love about Forrest too is that he's young enough to understand a different style of humor. I love watching Matt's calls but he's very short tempered, strictly debate/argument oriented and clearly sick of hearing the same shit after doing so much of this, so his jokes and humor are more and more rare, but Forrest is full of sarcasm and meme-y humor backed by actual scientific knowledge, and that's in addition to great, charismatic energy. Makes the dynamic between them pretty interesting.
And another example of how religion warps and perhaps eliminates rational, critical thinking
Just like any other group that doesn’t tolerate criticism from within. They think they’re above us, but they’re brutally normal.
Of course! Who needs that pesky critical thinking skill? It just gets in the way of peace and love and donating money to the church and human rights. Damn pesky critical thinking.
When he said a theocracy would work if it's done democratically... like thank goodness I was too tired otherwise the facepalm to my skull would have sent me to the ER!!!
My ex broke up with me in the name of god. During the break up, i asked her if god really loves us, why is he making us break up? She said “god loves us, thats why he’s making me do this.” After extensive research, I am proud to say that I am now a reborn atheist and I’m grateful to join the realm of the free thinkers!!!!!
PS, I’m sure y'all can figure out what religion she was forcefully indoctrinated in without any hesitation😁
Jehovah
No offense bro, but she was probably cheating or something shady going on. I've met way too many Christian woman like that 😂
Afghanistan, a highly religious country or Sweden, a very secular country.
Andrew, which country do you want to visit, let alone live in?
Andrew’s call sounded like an excerpt from a Monty Python movie.
God turned me into a newt!
@@TheModdedwarfare3 A newt?!
It does. Now I'm convinced that Jesus wasn't actually dead just like the parrot. He was just sleeping. That would explain the resurrection rather easily.
@@natebush8217 …I got better…
10:32 "Because having an allmighty deity in the heads of people that can punish them for their actions and thoughts makes people obedient." That would have been an honest answer.
The most interesting thing about the Bible is that no matter what you think or do, you can find a passage that supports it.
You can also find a passage that refutes it. It's the Big Book of Multiple Choice. What passages people choose tells you more about them than it does about the bible.
@@wizardsuthBig truth right there…well put!
And one that goes directly against it.
@@wizardsuth
Especially people that switch churches because they don't believe their old one.
As the saying goes, “the devil can quote scripture for his own purpose”
Religion is being one hundred percent certain of things you do not know.
Things you CANNOT know
About 2 years ago I was at the doctor a woman was talking in the waiting room about a storm that went through the area a week earlier she said a tornado touched down in a trailer park and destroyed several homes where they were making drugs then she said god got rid of those sinners and in the same breath she said that the devil used that damned storm to destroy her pastors home and 3 others of the "righteous" how evil is that so I asked her which one caused the storm the devil or god get this she said god caused it to punish sinners but the devil took it over so I asked so the devil is stronger than god she shut up and refused to look at me again and I finally got some peace
The devil taking control of a storm for his turn like it's Mario Kart is one of the funniest examples of goalpost shifting I have ever read.
I've seen dogs smart enough to stop chasing their tail. Andrew, not so much. 🤣
I'm glad Forest called him out on how shallow his thought process is. Dude really suffers from Dunning Kruger. He thinks he is this deep well of knowledge. A few questions from Forest and it turns out he is a deep as a puddle of mud.
Dogs chase their tail because it's fun. They stop when they are tired, or not amused any more.
I sat in on my kids' Mormon lesson, Sunday. The teachers literally said, in answer to the question, "How do you know it's God talking to you and not your own mind?", that you can know because if it's good it's from God and if it's bad it's not. 🙄
How can you know it is good, though, if good is what god wants.
This is all so obviously circular bullsh*t crap, it doesn't stand up to the scrutiny of a small child. (And they know it deep down; that is why they don't allow kids to scrutinize it before they have been brainwashed, I guess.)
I like this guy 😂. "Good parts of the bible are good, and bad ones are.... they are not from god"
The Crusaders saw it as the ultimate act of charity to go to war against those who misunderstood God's plan...
Is that good or bad?
I've seen this dude have special pleading explained to him. It's just not clicking.
@Oomph6006 the Muslims didn't misunderstand gods plan. They just had a plan from a different god. And, as we all know....."my god's better than your god. My god's better I know-oh-oh-ooohhh"
-"How do you know?"
-"I don't know, but here is another random assertion"
Oh no he's no longer Christian, his morality is now higher than God's and the bibles morality
Matt gets better every year. Forrest is so talented. Great channel
Matt actually got way worse in last 2'ish years, he gets angry really quickly for any tiny thing. Best Matt was from like 8 years ago when he used same knowledge and same good arguments without screaming at every caller like they are threatening him with a knife or something.
@@Zripas well he is no Ryan Seacrest that's for damn sure
@@richiejohnson
I have no idea who is Ryan Seacrest.
@@Zripas he's the host on the New Year's Eve Dick Clark Show
@RobCarlisle
I like when people avoid dancing around the bush and goes straight to the meat, which Matt was excellent at doing, but now... I just keep thinking "Please, Matt, just shut the f**k up and and breath for a moment, your behavior isn't helping anyone here" it's no longer interesting to watch call in shows with Matt in it, atleast not for me. Formal debates are still good as he then keeps his cool and avoids doing this silly shouting match even when opposition does extra stupid things. So maybe all this is just for show, but in any case, not a good look.
Many Catholics will, for example, attribute the efforts of some Catholics to shelter Jews during WWII to the teachings of the Catholic Church but then claim the church shouldn't be criticized for a few bad apples who were Nazis or who facilitated their escape to South America after the war. German Catholics hated the Jews. The church hierarchy worked very hard to help Nazis avoid prosecution after the war.
It's worth noting that this individual has called Jimmy during a solo hosted show and on several occasions afterwards, presenting strikingly similar, if not identical, versions of his arguments despite being pushed back and even conceding at times. Moreover, he continues to call in with further points, often pulling things out of thin air without justification or considering the consequences. At this point, it's hard to determine whether this individual is actually listening to the hosts or considering anything they say or not.
Few are. The show is not primarily aimed at the callers, fortunately.
When Andrew said that he is religious/christian because it's a fundamental part of being a human, what he really meant is that it's a fundamental part of him, and who he is. He can't imagine life as a non Christian. I get that, because I was raised that way. All your life, you're made to believe that this is absolutely everything to you. You're supposed to put God and faith first, before yourself, your family, everything, and anyone who doesn't do that is evil. You're not allowed to argue or even question that dogma. Literally everything good comes from God and everything bad is because you personally it humanity in general, falls short of God's glory and thus the bad is deserved and the good is an underserved gift.
When that is so deeply ingrained that you thank God when you find a good parking spot, and blame yourself when something bad happens that was completely out of your control, it's hard to imagine how to even function without believing in God. And then you're indoctrinated to believe that literally every good aspect of human character and society came from God, and specifically from your religion spreading the 'good word', then religion must seem integral to being human.
In church, I was taught that Christianity was the source of the concept of compassion, that literally all other cultures and religions were far more brutal and savage, so even the bad acts of christians in the past could be excused because the other cultures were so much worse, but the chrisians introduced the idea of compassion, and that's why missionaries and colonialism was generally successful and ultimately good despite it's 'flaws'.
When I first started to accept that I had no good reason to continue to hold onto my religious beliefs, it was hard. It felt like my whole world was crumbling because everything was based on my christianity. That's why I really like the concept of religious deconstruction. Because you really do have to deconstruct your entire world view, all is your beliefs and what you think about reality and history, and relearn everything. It is a real journey and has taken me over a year to get to this point, but my foundation feels much stronger that ever before.
Well said..the key word.. religious deconstruction..for some it is easy..for many it takes years.. mainly bcos of the environment you are in..n your social circle.. family..
The caller's example of when divorce is bad which he brought up himself: A man cheats on his wife and divorce to run away from his family. Caller says he never said this... Matt and Forrest are only talking about this specific example because the caller brought it up!
Wouldn't it be great if the callers were honest?
8:44 I love Matt's question here: "How do you know it's good?" (8:59). Different people & different cultures, in different times, will have different ideas about what are the "good parts" and what the "bad parts" of the Bible. Andrew probably just thinks it's intuitive. But, I'm sure if he grew up in a different time and/or place, his so called intuitions would be different.
What would matts answer to that question be?
Theocracies have never ever been democratic and is impossible to be democratic. Throughout history it's always been believe in my God or die.
Loving your neighbours as you love yourself is not a good thing not everyone likes to be treated the same way treating people how they wish to be treated is so much better
Matt and Forrest are a dream team.
Is religion democratic? LOL....Andrew does not think his own arguments through as he admitted. His calls are very entertaining I must say.
I think they honestly think they just blurt out anything that comes into their head, without thinking it through.
I was just listening to another video. Where the caller says Matt needed to drop his scientific mind to find god.
Then Matt said why would he drop the most reliable method of determining truth, to believe deluded stuff like the caller.
The caller then claimed that he follows the science at it led him to the truth of god.
Matt then said if following the science can lead to god. Why did you just say I had to drop my scientific mind to find god.
Then there was a long silent pause. Then the caller started talking about something else.
Severe lack of critical thinking skills. It's entertaining for people who do have them, to watch people like Andrew flounder and be terrified of examining the validity of their own beliefs. It is sad though.
Talking, easy. Thinking hard.
@@JarlGrimmToysthis is hilarious. Do you happen to remember which video it was?
12:23 is fucking hilarious. “That was two questions” 😂
Matt: Why arent you a secular humanist and instead you claim that God inspired something that you cant know he inspired?
Andrew deep inside: Because i cant get rid of my nonsensical sky daddy 😢
"Because I'm scared my father who loves me will torture me forever if I reject what a book says about him"
@@exaucemayunga22This is actually true
My first attempt to read the Bible was what put me off religion. Too many messed up things that I'm supposed to just take for granted...
How can religion be a democracy? Married bachelor.
Like Iran maybe? Though it's not exactly a democracy in a manner of speaking.
Religion is real, democracy a myth.
Forrest: That's two questions....
Made my day.
Matt: Apologies for all the crap you had to listen to, Andrew
Andrew: *perpetrates 20 minutes of crap*
If it was democratic was *your* caveat! How do these people decide the topic and then not understand the topic? It's their topic! They picked the topic!
Which doesn't work, how could a society ruled by an invisible dictator that we cannot question be democratic? (It's a rhetorical question, it can't)
Where it has been tried it's not even that invisible dictator making the rules, it's the people who "know what he wants and thinks" that make the rules and it's usually to make them insanely wealthy and provide them with women to fuck. Also God's rules do not apply to them, they are "prophets" or "Gods emissaries on earth" so they are above all law.
For examples you can look to Paul, Mohammed and Joseph Smith as well as every theocratic society that has ever existed.
As Forrest pointed out, the guy really doesn't take more than 5 seconds to think through what he's saying and scurries on to the next point the second his argument gets poked so full of holes that there isn't even a ship left to sink.
You learn something new every day. Until now, I thought I was an atheist, but apparently I am a christian instead. Like Andrew, I believe in all the parts of the bible, of which I personally think they are good and true and I disbelieve in all the parts of the bible, of which I personally think, they are false and evil. And like him, I also don´t know parts of the bible. And I also find it perfectly plausible, that Jesus is the ultimate something, of which I have no idea, what it actually means.
Or does it matter for some reason, that the whole god part of the bible is something I do neither believe in, nor regard it as "good"?
It is a true mystery.
You're an atheist. You have torn the Babble apart piece by piece and there's nothing left but the binding.
King says "I keep them poor"
Priest says "I keep them dumb"
"Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful."-Lucius Seneca.
Andrew has called several times and his ideas are muddled and confused. I loathe that he lives in the same state that I do.
I have been saying this for years. I was in a Christian recovery center many years ago, and there would always be announcements that someone who had left the program was in the hospital for whatever reason and we would get in a circle, hold hands, and pray for them. Whenever we would get a report about the outcome of what we were praying for, no matter how it turned out, it was God. If their situation improved, it was God. If they died, it was also God. I was 20 years old and questioning it then. I'm 52 now, and I think I understand a little better now what's going on.
Its hilarious to me that he tried to act like he as the high ground and hung up because they were "being dishonest" right after he dishonestly tried to frame getting divorced as evil by throwing in that the hypothetical guy abandoned his kids. He knows that getting a divorce because you don't want to be together anymore isn't evil but he has to frame it that way to make his point.
Nice try Andrew but literally no one thinks you left this conversation with the high ground.
Now I'm curious what happened in the call prior lol
Matt sniffed out a troll and intentionally riled him up to make him show his true colors.
When she was good she was very very good
When she was bad she was better.
The religious can’t get past all these hypocrisy’s and pot holes. These just can’t get through it. If there WAS an actual god? That would NEVER be possible to happen….period.
Christianity is not democratic. I know because I wasted nineteen years serving it.
An inability to divorce results in widows and widowers.
I lol'ed at "the good parts".
And naturally Andrew lacks the forethought to realise that parts he doesn't agree with are "the good parts" to other Christians.
THAT will only raise the subject of what makes a *TRUE* Christian, and I think we all know how that would go with this particular caller...
It’s official, God is Michael Scott. “I do want all of the credit and none of the blame.”
Just saw his other call, this guy is a riot
What stood out early in the call was Andrew's attempt to conflate Theocracy with democracy. The fact is they're a contradiction in terms. After all, we're talking about three Greek words: "Theos", "demos" and "kratos". As we all know, "theos" is the word for "god", "demos" is the word for "people" and "kratos" is the word for "government". Theocracy ("government of God" or, in lieu thereof, his self-professed representatives) is, by its very nature, diametrically opposed to democracy ("government of the people") and vice versa.
Recent legislation by Theocratic politicians here in the United States is proof thereof. Such politicians call themselves "Republicans", from a term which connotes representation. But, with regard to such politicians, the question becomes: "Whom do they truly represent?" The type of legislation they pursue indicates that they don't represent the people in their districts. Consequently, they must of necessity see themselves as representatives of some deity whose existence has, to date, never been demostrated, let alone evidenced.
Is this what Andrew has in mind when advocating for a "democratic" form of Theocracy? In light of his answer to the question on divorce when a husband doesn't care enough about his wife and any children and leaves, it appears that this is precisely what he means. Andrew would force the wife and any children to remain with someone who clearly wants nothing to do with them. That's a strictly Theocratic answer to the divorce question. Nowhere in that is there support for democracy.
He's so fucking close to understanding you don't need a God to have a moral framework but just can't let go of the nonsense magic story.
He literally describes how he implements secular humanism to judge what he determines to be right vs wrong then turns around and assert there still must be a God? What the fuck man.
That's like acknowledging how an internal combustion engine works and agreeing it's a valid way to get places quickly and then immediately saying "yea but there's still definitely 4th dimension car fairies that make all this shit work".
“Not the bad parts, the good parts” bro is ignorantly honest
so Andrew believes in Jesus and thinks Jesus was a humanist, but doesn’t think it follows that he would follow Jesus’ teachings?
I'm a homo sapiens, I'm not religious, it isn't fundamental to me being human
In the _Mr. Deity_ video _Mr. Deity and the Messages_ the title character goes through his answering machine messages. He explains to -Jesse- Jesus that he rarely acts on prayer because when good things happen he gets all the credit but when bad things happen he gets none of the blame, and he has no incentive to change that.
Turns out Andrew called in with roughly the same script around six months ago. After watching all three of his calls I really don't think he's willing to listen/learn, especially because it's over months
He wants religion to be good, and can't see where it causes harm. Hell, he brought up how Saudi Arabia is a great example of a theocracy that we should be following!
So his Bible only has two pages in it?
Overwhelming majority of believers didn't even read two pages from bible.
His bible is only the parts his preacher reads to him, and the parts his favorite Christian youtubers will rationalise for him.
"I'm going to call in with what I think are solid arguments. Even though I haven't considered AT ALL what my solid arguments might be challenged with....I'm going to call in anyway."
Cherry picking the Bible in its most basic form. "I just focus on the good parts of the Bible and ignore all that bad stuff." even though plenty of people do the worst things to others in the name of their gods that atheists would never do in the name of god not existing.
To be fair, "In Christianity, the term secular clergy refers to deacons and priests who are not monastics or otherwise members of religious life."
As opposed to "regular" (following the rule).
Perhaps Andrew should look into the usages of the word "secular"...
If good, it's God's work.
If bad, nothing but the devil.
If good but turns bad, "the lord gives and takes away"
If bad but turns good, a blessing in disguise.
This really polarises the complacency of all religious beliefs!
He likes the good things in the bible and ignores the bad ones 😅
And he would see that as a good thing, but if you would call that cherry-picking he would deny it.
There is no good or evil, only thinking makes it so. ( Swinburne).
Please, remove the loud, screaming clip of Jimmy at the end. It’s repetitive and hurts my ears.
Yea, I never could understand why Jimmy always has to pop in at the end and make stupid comments. What's the point? It's just annoying.
Theocracy is opposite to democracy
Andrew just keeps running the same play and refusing to learn a damn thing. I used to have hope for him, but I've been convinced by listening to so so so many of his calls that he is actively refusing to think or is incapable of thinking beyond the most superficial level.
Maybe he alternates these calls with calls to a theist show where antimatt and antiforrest point him back to the script(ure)?
"Good people will do good things. Bad people will do bad things. But it takes religion to cause a good person to do bad things."
My favorite quote. Because a good person could do bad things when they feel their religion or magic sky wizard justifies it.
Wait....Matt said that Christianity and Secular Humanism are both religions? That seems....an odd comment for him to make
I was thinking they were both positions about religion, not that they were both religions. I could be wrong, though.
@@girlwithtehface5880
Anything can be a religion.
"It's not bad when I do it"
-God, Isiah 46:7
The thing about religion is that it is COMPOSED of people, and unlike politics you aren't forced to participate.
For example, with politics (especially here in the U.S.) if you don't like what the Democratic Party does, your only viable alternative in most circumstances is the Republican Party. If you disagree even MORE with the Republican Party, then you don't have many choices left. You can either go back to voting for the Democratic Party, or not vote at all. Either way though, you are forced to live under the rule of whichever one wins, regardless of who you did or didn't vote for.
On the flipside, if you are Catholic then you default support the actions of the Catholic Church. If you don't like what the Catholic Church does, then you have full freedom to simply eject yourself from the religion and start up a new one, find one that appeals to you, or simply go without a religion at all. Even better, if you do so you will not find yourself in a locality, state, or country controlled by the Catholic Church (unless you live in the Vatican I suppose).
So all of the PEOPLE who are part of the Catholic Church are at least complicit in the actions of the Catholic Church, period. To claim that religion is only bad because of people is like saying that a certain restaurant is only bad because of the people working there. Well yeah, what else could it be...
The Republican party is not a viable alternative to *anything* right now. It is crooked, nasty, treacherous, stupid - you name the adjective, they have it covered.
The doctrine dude.
If the restaurant has bad ingredients the food will be bad too.
Same with a bad menu that claims you’ll burn in hellfire if you go to any other restaurant.
It’s not just the people it’s the people *and the doctrine*
I don’t think you had a choice during the Middle Ages.
So what about women who need reproductive healthcare in a state run by religious folk who ban it?
Are they not forced, one way or another, to participate in that fucked up system?
@@Theproclaimed And who makes the menu? Who buys the ingredients?
The only way you can claim it is the people AND something else is if that something else came from something other than the people.
As we have seen, religion has changed as people have, so the only actual source for doctrine is... the people.
The thumbnail to this video is too hilarious all thanks to Forrest double facepalming and Matt’s expression 😂
Seems like an overreaction
boy, talk about cherry picking your religon.............
every time that i hear it's "andrew from florida" i just think "oh no." and i brace myself. also, jimmy's outro on these videos is SO loud. i often watch these at night and need to be quiet (and headphones aren't an option for me). it would be really nice if they made that outro quieter or, at least; gave a few seconds of warning it was coming. then i could at least pause or turn down volume before it.
"If we follow the good stuff...." and how do you make sure the leaders of your theocracy just follow the stuff that you find good???
Just ask the old touchy men in the catholic church.
If you are a theist that argues fine tuning then please consider: The amount of air where humans could survive in is about 10^10 cubic meters, The volume of the observable universe where no humans live is about 10^80 cubic meters.
So this supposed fine tuned universe is about ninety nine point
9999999999
9999999999
9999999999
, wait, not done
9999999999
9999999999
9999999999
99999999
- percent NOT made for us. That is not fine tuned for humans.
"Religion began when the first scoundrel met the first fool."
"It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere."
------ Voltaire
I'm glad Andrew came back, but I see that what happened last time didn't totally click. Maybe this time will be different for him! Either way, love to hear from him! Keep being respectful and keep asking questions, Andrew!
Gotta love Forrest😂😂 Matt and all the others are great as well, but I love Forrest’s mindset and how he acts
These two are a tag team from heaven :) See what i did there. Great work Matt & Forrest.
The skeptic does not mean him who doubts, but him who investigates or researches, as opposed to him who asserts and thinks that he has found.
-- Miguel de Unamuno, Essays and Soliloquies, "My Religion" (1924)
If he cheats on her that's bad. Divorce is fine if people's lives will be better.
Glad to see Forrest immediately bring up the hitchens challenge.
This is embarrassing for the caller. They were literally insulting him to his face at the end asking if he ever examines his thoughts or just spews his thoughts out 😂😂
Andrew is just spewing crap hoping something will stick. All the while knowing what the hosts are going to ask because he’s called in before. Andrew probably has no clue about Andrew. 😂😂😂
I agree with Bob Price when he said that religion starts as the delusion of one or two people and when enough people sign on it becomes a worldview.
matts set up around 9:50 for that response was beautiful
He sounds like the church I was in. If a prophecy sounds okay, it is from god. If it obviously wrong, then it was obviously not from god. You just have to use discernment.
I have the Oppenheimer soundtrack playing in the background on another window for dramatic effect. Very cool.
When trying to be as good faith as possible while thinking of this topic I have kind of reached the conclusion that it would actually be a clever way to weed out fake Christian’s from true Christian’s. If something in the book was actually completely at odds with the rest of it, then only the blind believers who don’t seek to understand anything would actually believe. Sadly the Bible isn’t at odds with slavery.
Every day I get more and more understanding why people turn to religion. Critical thinking is so low and unprioritized that people are literally saying “I want a democratic theocracy of a religion that is not democratic and I should be able to choose which parts of the Bible are to be followed but I’m not telling people how to live”
The obliviousness of circular reasoning and hypocrisy is astounding 😐
They turned to religion because they don't think critically, or they don't think critically because they turned to religion?
Religion should be kept away from kids so they can develop normally. If, as an adult, you choose to pursue it, so be it, but then hardly anybody ever would.
Matt Dillahunty 3:16 says “Slavery is immoral”
Okay side note, how many callers from Florida are named Andrew? Either this guy is a regular, there are a lot of callers named Andrew from Florida, or I've had some pretty interesting probabilities occur
he also said it has to be a democracy which is completely against a theocracy.
So his position is basically:
1. You can judge using your own thoughts whether something is good or bad, by applying humanist principles like for example a utilitarian calculus
2. Coming up with something good doesn't work this way, you can't possibly come up with it yourself, but instead, God must put that thought in your mind somehow
3. The Bible is not actually a perfect book, but simply a book with good things in it, which, arguing from point 2, must be inspired by God.
The first inconsistency I find with this is that this doesn't actually favor Christianity as being the one religion ordained by God, as there exist other views on God that happen to feature a larger ratio of positive moral advice.
The second problem I find is that point 2 is easily refuted, as it's easy to come up with an explanation of how a human could invent a morally good concept. The explanation is simple: Humans are good at problem solving, including being able to plan which course of action maximizes a given standard, and generalizing this approach.That humans can do this without intervention from God is proved by examples of a human making plans to maximize a morally bad standard, for example when planning a murder. Since access to a *good* standard is already granted in point 1, we can conclude that humans are able to invent morally good concepts, contradicting point 2.