Thank you for setting us straight on the format differences and terminology. I enjoyed this video more than I thought I would. Brought back a lot of memories!
@@outlawbookselleroriginal No, it was awesome. I've been accruing books all my life, but never really "collecting them," not consciously. I'd like to make them nice, so that when day comes, I have something nice to give to the people I love. Books artifacts. And in our world, whether it's the censors or the "pickers," they're being removed from the normal flow of daily life--the good ones, that is. Apparently, LeGuin's son doesn't his mom was woke enough--can you imagine? The Left Hand of Darkness?--and he's going to "fix" her prose. That's like fixing Michael Angelo's David with a jackhammer. Collectors make the best archivists--they're emotionally invested. The world has gone totally bonkers. Thanks, Outlaw.
I don't know if this happened elsewhere, but in the USA Dell among other publishers had a B line for juveniles called "Yearling" that was so pervasive, along with its competitors who did the same trick, that kids my age would assume that virtually any B format book was a juvenile and be rather baffled whenever we picked up a B that didn't target us. When you "Grew up" at 12 or whatever, they had the same book in A format, and one didn't want to be seen with a B until getting out of adolescence, and then everyone forgot all about it.
Wonderful explanation and having slept on the information, as expected, I’ve forgotten half of it already. But will remember my favourite books are crown octavo 😊
I was pleasantly surprised to see how many of the exact same editions I had in the examples you used! 😁 The Tim Powers UK cover, the LeGuin trade paperback and the Robinson trade! ✅ As regards UK trade paperbacks bookseller Erik Arthur of Fantasy Centre in London HATED the damn things!!! 🤣 Can't say I'm a fan of them either. Indeed, I replaced the Robinson with the A-format edition AND the US first - which you also featured in this video! Got the latter signed and inscribed in the mid-'90s when he was in Glasgow for a book event promoting _Blue Mars._ As for the LeGuin, younger readers won't know this as the SF Masterworks edition has been available for ages, but for DECADES that book was out of print. All during the '90s, when I started buying SF secondhand, I _never_ came across a copy. When eventually I did, oh 15yrs ago or something, I was DELIGHTED that the copy I found was the one with the gorgeous wraparound cover! 😍
Yep, the specialists are the reason the original Gollancz Classics in B format shrank down to A- their shelves were always configured for A to allow for maximum use of space. Yep, the Leguin was OP for ages...
I'm not a book size fetishist in the way you are, but this video, although largely familiar stuff, was both interesting and sometimes amusing. I remember when the term "trade paperback" first gained currency here, it was imported from America, and was used by booksellers to mean anything larger that what was then the standard paperback format... the A. It strikes me as a pretty meaningless term in reality, because all books are trade books, irrespective of whether that trade is a bookshop or a supermarket, because most publishers don't sell direct to consumers (although many used to, they had order forms in the back of their paperbacks). Your right to say that this nomenclature must be kept alive, if only for bibliophiles. You're right about Sonny Mehta, I had a long chat with him at a publisher's party many years ago, he was friendly and charming... and progressively more sozzled.
Fascinating look into the bits behind the various publishing industry formats. I'm blown away by the acumen Stephen brings to his episodes of the Outlaw Bookseller, it's just over the top. Question, OB: Ever heard if some publishers did research into what the optimal font size should be for various audiences? As always, another post with great content, quality, production and especially presentation! Cheers.
Thanks for taking your time do this video & making those Terms clearer. In mid to late 80's & early 90's many 'A' format paperbacks were almost impossible to read due to their small & condensed texts. They would try to fit 40-45 lines of texts on those small pages, whereas Trade paperback with their larger size would only have 30-35 lines of texts. It was most prevalent in Fantasy books. Don't know if it was due to cost cutting or a push towards hard covers.
It’s that “snobbery in the British book trade” that caused Hard Case Crime to switch from the mass-market paperback form (A) to trade-paperback form (B). HCC publisher Charles Ardai has gone on record as saying that his line was always intended to be in mmpb (A) as an homage to vintage mid-century crime pbs, but after they lost their American publisher/distributor, they had to find another, but they struck out with potential American publishers. They then formed a partnership with a publisher (Titan Books, I believe) in the UK, and the tpb (B) format is the default size of book they printed…and so all subsequent HCC books were printed in tpb/B format, unfortunately.
I suspected Titan of this- remember, B strictly speaking is no longer a 'trade format' as it has long been ubiquitous. It's a great shame that Titan didn't make the effort and go with A, but I bet that is to do with cost. I'd buy a lot more Hard Case if they were A, but B is inauthentic for what they do. There's a Canadianpublisher called Ricochet who reissue classic Canadian Hardboiled from the 40s and 50s who produce their books in A.
Yeah, so true! I love me a bit of Shaw, though I haven't read him for years- 'Pygmalion' is one of my favourite plays. I have an SF version of it planned one day, but that's years off...Thanks for both yr comments!
I found your video very interesting and you may have cost me money by recommending two books. :-) When you were talking about the Hardback versus the Trade Paperback and the fact that they use the same text block, I thought you were going to refer to the wonderful chapter in Umberto Eco's "Foucault's Pendulum" which describes vanity publishing. In that chapter the publisher, who in this case was basically ripping off the writer who was paying for all production costs, printed X books to text block stage, but only bound a small number in hardback covers. He stored the unbound text blocks until the author was wondering when the paperback was coming out and then bound some more in paperback while charging his author for the full printing and binding of paperback books. If you have not read that chapter you should seek it out.
I appreciate the look into the UK book trade, clearly a significant difference in basic terminology here in the US, where there's really only one standard size for adult books: the mass market paperback, and a few in kids publishing (like the 8x8). Though there are a few more common trim sizes, you can publish a book in just about any size or shape. Here, "trade paperback" is any paperback that can only be returned intact as opposed to cover-only returns of mass market paperbacks. The trim size is essentially however you order it. Likewise hardcovers, which are returned whole. Also, what you called "wraps" are indeed French flaps here. A wrap cover refers to the artwork wrapping around the spine and continuing onto the back cover, requiring a bigger (and more expensive) cover painting. Your videos are the first I've heard the term "text block." The pages here are the "guts" and the edges are just that: edges. Cheers!
I think I'm making a distinction here between the correct professional terminology and that which has been popularly used- no doubt in the US there may be professional usages which are not in common use which are more specific and correct. Even in the UK trade, there are people working in publishing-recent entrants, mostly- who are using popular terminology. I think you're also referring in some places here to print on demand books, which I've excluded from this video. Re my usage of 'text block', that's an example of pro usage which is, as you indicate, uncommon. That's my point- there is hardly anyone on YT who works in the new book trade and as a consequence, popular terms (though not necessarily specific) reign. I can't recall the last time I tore a cover off a paperback for returns...that took me back, thanks!
I have an American "Nineteen Eighty-Four" with deckled edges and wraps and I've always wondered why those features are so popular in US paperbacks but I've never seen them in the UK.
But what about my Chaosiums, Stephen! 215 x 140, extremely readable and great feel in the hands but don't sit on a shelf with anything else. Enjoyed this a lot more than I thought I would.
I was actually curious about this exact topic and thinking about it yesterday. Such great timing! Also curious if you have any resources on how to research first editions for books (whether they had a hardcover or only paperback, what country they first released from etc)
There are various bibliographies, printed ones are most reliable, online isfdb is good but not without its flaws - SF, Fantasy and Horror- other then that its years of knowledge building...
Wonderful and fascinating video Steve, much appreciated, as always. I have a question, is the format of a book defined mostly by its dimensions? Because in my mind, mass market paperbacks meant something else entirely. In my mind, MMP was those very poor print quality cheap books you'd find on an airport, where the paper was almost newspaper quality, the ink shoddy, the size mostly small and the selection usually very popular things like romance, spy/police procedural/murder mystery stuff, and things like stephen king, michael crichton etc. I am fairly sure most people know what i am talking about. Cheap disposable books that some people buy, read, throw away. Was there an official designation for that kind of book? Was it recongnised as a format in itself, or was it just a pocket version of, say, a format?
Yes, a Book Format means nothing but its actual dimensions. If you apply 'format' in any other way to a book, you're misusing the word. If you are in the trade and using publishers' catalologues they will often indicate what format a book is, meaning what size it is. First of all, it depends where you are in the world. I use British book trade official terminology to describe book formats. A 'mass market paperback' is a paperback produced for both trade (i.e. dedicated bookshops) and non-trade (other retailers who may stock some books) outlets. Therefore, it can NOW cover both UK 'A Format' and 'B Format' books. A paperback larger than 'B Format' is known as a 'Trade Paperback', meaning that generally speaking it is only found in 'trade' outlets (i.e. bookshops). The paperback formats known as C and D are the paperback equivalents of Demy and Royal format hardcovers respectively. HOWEVER - although once upon a time the 'B Format' indicated 'upmarket literary fiction' (which initially would not have been stocked in non-trade outlets due to the fact that most paperbacks in non-bookshop outlets would be on wire rack spinners, which were designed for 'A Format' books), it became the predominant format for UK paperbacks per se by the late 1980s-early 1990s, with very little other than genre fiction still being issued as A Format at that time. The 'A' is now uncommon, but some 'non trade' outlets still have rack spinners for A's and those books are often printed on demand for those non-trade outlets. I have seen multiple examples of titles that a trade bookshop cannot order in A format, the B format being the standard one. These non-trade A Format editions destined specifically for rack spinners in non-bookshop outlets are the closest you'll get to a pre-1980s idea of what 'mass market paperback' might have meant to the average reader then. As for airports, the books available are determined by which side of customs the seller is on. So, for example, a newish title still only available in the UK in hardcover may be available in such an outlet in a paperback edition - an A, a B or more commonly a C or D format trade paperback, since these are usually issued for the Eire (Republic of Ireland) market, which cannot support so many new books in hardcover- so a new hardcover bestseller can be issued simultaneously in Ireland as a trade paperback (which will not, of course, be available in the UK for copyright and market reasons). These books are known as 'Export Editions'. You have to remember that any book can be thrown away, any book can be on cheap paper, these things are nothing to do with formats. I think any confusion is down to the way that non-booksellers use terms like 'mass market paperbacks'. There is a video on the channel all about this from around a year back. This is one of the reasons I'm so pedantic about people using the correct nomenclature when it comes to book terms, for otherwise the result is total confusion and misinformation. In the USA, format designations are not pinned down in the way they are in the UK- although US 'A Formats' have long been the same as UK ones, there was a time when they were smaller- like the Ace Paperbacks of the 1950s and 1960s. The British A has been in use since at least 1935, when Penguin Books first appeared. US equivalents of 'B Format' vary enormously, hence the common US usage of 'trade paperbacks' for many of these, which is ironic given that the B Format's creation in the UK was inspired by American formats. Ultimately, you have to taken on board the reality that 'mass market' is pretty much anything that is a bestseller- and 'literary fiction' can and will sell as well as genre fiction, so as an indicator of 'lowbrow' material, 'mass market paperback' is meaningless.
@@outlawbookselleroriginal I see, thanks a lot for the in-depth answer! Of course there is an established language and terminology that we, not in the business ourselves have limited familiarity with, so we can be excused for making mistakes I hope. There is a whole different topic to be discussed on the matter, that of how useful the existing terminology is for actual buyers, and whether it is sufficient to meet their needs. As a proponent for standards in, well, most markets, since they make shopping and finding what you want or need easier, I often find myself wishing the standards in the publishing industry incorporate more factors, such as the aforementioned material quality. Anyway, thanks again for being so helpful mate. Love from Greece.
Interesting video, I do tend to shelve mine based on format, before any other categorisation. One difference I've found with Mass Market paperbacks is that they often have a product bar code rather than one that matches the ISBN.
Well a bar code is different to an isbn, but when scanned it reads the isbn into a till or database field and pulls up the book details. Isbns became a thing at the end of the 1960s and there are some books that bear barcodes and not sbns and vice versa, but only across a very short period of time- coupla years.
@@outlawbookselleroriginal I've always found ISBN numbers interesting because of the check digits, you don't often see that built in validation with identifiers. So you can derive from the number itself if it's valid or not. Bar Codes also map to digits, so I always assumed the bar codes that show the ISBN next to them also map to those particular digits (with X representing 10), either ISBN10 or 13. It's likely how a lot of the online book cataloguing sites work, otherwise they'd need a complete bar-code -> ISBN mapping list. They often fail to recognise mass market paperbacks for that reason.
@@jackkaraquazian Yep, check digits. I still know loads of publisher prefixes from isbns and can often identify a books' publisher from the sbn. Back in the 80s I would preset a prefix into the teleordering machine at work, type in the suffix of the book I antged to stock from a paper stocklist, enter the quantity and send it down the modem. Ancient history!
@@outlawbookselleroriginal I liked "The Other Log of Phineas Fogg", too. Read it as a late teen. Found it so funny. Will have to re-read it some day. A very interesting and informative video. Book formats are fun.
@@AdrianESabau -They are fun! Yes, I like 'Other Log' too, prefer it to the Verne that inspired it which is not the kind of thing I normally say, but I found Fogg really irritating in Verne when I re-read it recently-almost as annoying as Sherlock Holmes!
Thx for clearing that up somewhat. As a result I've ordered Yellow Blue Tibia. Btw. I have a few copies from The Science Fiction Book Club (60s) in hard cover. Are they in a special category maybe? Anyhow in the Dutch Book Collector app I measure the books in millimeters. Very precise. Also I am confused about what to put in the "Publisher" category by for example a Pelican book. So far I've put Penguin. And the American publishers do not always list anything under "Printed By" - only saying "Manufactured in America". Cheers!
'Yellow Blue Tibia' is great fun, hope you like it. Adam is really good at being silly, but even better at being serious- and sometimes both at once. UK SF book club are crown octavos. Publishers are more difficult to define in some way- Pelican is an imprint of Penguin. An imprint is a specific brand identity within a publishing house- it all gets a bit foggy sometimes...
Yes, I seem to recall what may have been an E for that book, as it was so big- I have one of the Gormenghast trilogy- and the Ende is a Penguin/Puffin, which underlines what I've said about it being a Penguin format.
If I could only see the one with Liev Schreiber as Roma. Kudos to Pacino, but Ray Donovan killed it, acording to theatre critics. Interstingly, on stage Pacino played the part of Levene, played by the great Jack Lemmon in the movie.
Of course. I'm a big Mamet fan. My favorite is Spanish Prisoner, of those that he directed, of course. As far as his original screenplays go, but directed by others, Edmond, directed by Stuart Gordon is number one for me.
Thank you for setting us straight on the format differences and terminology. I enjoyed this video more than I thought I would. Brought back a lot of memories!
Many thanks- it lasted a lot longer than I thought it would, but I felt a bit of book nerdism was necessary!
@@outlawbookselleroriginal Want to add my thanks as well. Really enjoyed this!
You know, I have never bought a book from a rack spinner.
Interesting and informative video. Thanks Steve!
It's been a VERY long time since I have- tell a lie, I bought one from a spinner a few years back, but that was the first time in almost 30 years!
A much needed (and appreciated) video. Thanks, Outlaw.
It was fun, though I think I said 'OK' 98 times during it....
@@outlawbookselleroriginal No, it was awesome. I've been accruing books all my life, but never really "collecting them," not consciously. I'd like to make them nice, so that when day comes, I have something nice to give to the people I love. Books artifacts. And in our world, whether it's the censors or the "pickers," they're being removed from the normal flow of daily life--the good ones, that is. Apparently, LeGuin's son doesn't his mom was woke enough--can you imagine? The Left Hand of Darkness?--and he's going to "fix" her prose. That's like fixing Michael Angelo's David with a jackhammer. Collectors make the best archivists--they're emotionally invested. The world has gone totally bonkers. Thanks, Outlaw.
I don't know if this happened elsewhere, but in the USA Dell among other publishers had a B line for juveniles called "Yearling" that was so pervasive, along with its competitors who did the same trick, that kids my age would assume that virtually any B format book was a juvenile and be rather baffled whenever we picked up a B that didn't target us. When you "Grew up" at 12 or whatever, they had the same book in A format, and one didn't want to be seen with a B until getting out of adolescence, and then everyone forgot all about it.
This shows the effectiveness of B in its early days when it became super-identified with certain imprints, such as Picador.
Wonderful explanation and having slept on the information, as expected, I’ve forgotten half of it already. But will remember my favourite books are crown octavo 😊
You can ask me again anytime, Simon, thanks for your gifting in the past, very touched!
I was pleasantly surprised to see how many of the exact same editions I had in the examples you used! 😁 The Tim Powers UK cover, the LeGuin trade paperback and the Robinson trade! ✅
As regards UK trade paperbacks bookseller Erik Arthur of Fantasy Centre in London HATED the damn things!!! 🤣
Can't say I'm a fan of them either. Indeed, I replaced the Robinson with the A-format edition AND the US first - which you also featured in this video! Got the latter signed and inscribed in the mid-'90s when he was in Glasgow for a book event promoting _Blue Mars._
As for the LeGuin, younger readers won't know this as the SF Masterworks edition has been available for ages, but for DECADES that book was out of print. All during the '90s, when I started buying SF secondhand, I _never_ came across a copy. When eventually I did, oh 15yrs ago or something, I was DELIGHTED that the copy I found was the one with the gorgeous wraparound cover! 😍
Yep, the specialists are the reason the original Gollancz Classics in B format shrank down to A- their shelves were always configured for A to allow for maximum use of space. Yep, the Leguin was OP for ages...
I'm not a book size fetishist in the way you are, but this video, although largely familiar stuff, was both interesting and sometimes amusing.
I remember when the term "trade paperback" first gained currency here, it was imported from America, and was used by booksellers to mean anything larger that what was then the standard paperback format... the A. It strikes me as a pretty meaningless term in reality, because all books are trade books, irrespective of whether that trade is a bookshop or a supermarket, because most publishers don't sell direct to consumers (although many used to, they had order forms in the back of their paperbacks). Your right to say that this nomenclature must be kept alive, if only for bibliophiles.
You're right about Sonny Mehta, I had a long chat with him at a publisher's party many years ago, he was friendly and charming... and progressively more sozzled.
Yeah, the meaning of 'trade paperback' drifts with the times- hence my delineation of the B, C, D, E etc.
Fascinating look into the bits behind the various publishing industry formats. I'm blown away by the acumen Stephen brings to his episodes of the Outlaw Bookseller, it's just over the top. Question, OB: Ever heard if some publishers did research into what the optimal font size should be for various audiences? As always, another post with great content, quality, production and especially presentation! Cheers.
Rick, publishers go to lunch. Who knows what else they do? LOL
Thanks for taking your time do this video & making those Terms clearer. In mid to late 80's & early 90's many 'A' format paperbacks were almost impossible to read due to their small & condensed texts. They would try to fit 40-45 lines of texts on those small pages, whereas Trade paperback with their larger size would only have 30-35 lines of texts. It was most prevalent in Fantasy books. Don't know if it was due to cost cutting or a push towards hard covers.
That did happen more and more as authors were pushed to produce bigger books. Nightmare!
Most illuminating. Thanks, SA.
My pleasure!
It’s that “snobbery in the British book trade” that caused Hard Case Crime to switch from the mass-market paperback form (A) to trade-paperback form (B). HCC publisher Charles Ardai has gone on record as saying that his line was always intended to be in mmpb (A) as an homage to vintage mid-century crime pbs, but after they lost their American publisher/distributor, they had to find another, but they struck out with potential American publishers. They then formed a partnership with a publisher (Titan Books, I believe) in the UK, and the tpb (B) format is the default size of book they printed…and so all subsequent HCC books were printed in tpb/B format, unfortunately.
I suspected Titan of this- remember, B strictly speaking is no longer a 'trade format' as it has long been ubiquitous. It's a great shame that Titan didn't make the effort and go with A, but I bet that is to do with cost. I'd buy a lot more Hard Case if they were A, but B is inauthentic for what they do. There's a Canadianpublisher called Ricochet who reissue classic Canadian Hardboiled from the 40s and 50s who produce their books in A.
So many things to say that it's like getting a homework assignment!
Outlaw Bookseller is the channel that puts other Booktube 'academies' in peril.
@@outlawbookselleroriginal I'll write up my essay after she's gone to bed. . .
Was it George Bernard Shaw who said, "England and America are two countries separated by a common language"?
Yeah, so true! I love me a bit of Shaw, though I haven't read him for years- 'Pygmalion' is one of my favourite plays. I have an SF version of it planned one day, but that's years off...Thanks for both yr comments!
I found your video very interesting and you may have cost me money by recommending two books. :-) When you were talking about the Hardback versus the Trade Paperback and the fact that they use the same text block, I thought you were going to refer to the wonderful chapter in Umberto Eco's "Foucault's Pendulum" which describes vanity publishing. In that chapter the publisher, who in this case was basically ripping off the writer who was paying for all production costs, printed X books to text block stage, but only bound a small number in hardback covers. He stored the unbound text blocks until the author was wondering when the paperback was coming out and then bound some more in paperback while charging his author for the full printing and binding of paperback books. If you have not read that chapter you should seek it out.
Yeah, I read that a good while back, had forgotten it!
I appreciate the look into the UK book trade, clearly a significant difference in basic terminology here in the US, where there's really only one standard size for adult books: the mass market paperback, and a few in kids publishing (like the 8x8). Though there are a few more common trim sizes, you can publish a book in just about any size or shape. Here, "trade paperback" is any paperback that can only be returned intact as opposed to cover-only returns of mass market paperbacks. The trim size is essentially however you order it. Likewise hardcovers, which are returned whole. Also, what you called "wraps" are indeed French flaps here. A wrap cover refers to the artwork wrapping around the spine and continuing onto the back cover, requiring a bigger (and more expensive) cover painting. Your videos are the first I've heard the term "text block." The pages here are the "guts" and the edges are just that: edges. Cheers!
I think I'm making a distinction here between the correct professional terminology and that which has been popularly used- no doubt in the US there may be professional usages which are not in common use which are more specific and correct. Even in the UK trade, there are people working in publishing-recent entrants, mostly- who are using popular terminology. I think you're also referring in some places here to print on demand books, which I've excluded from this video. Re my usage of 'text block', that's an example of pro usage which is, as you indicate, uncommon. That's my point- there is hardly anyone on YT who works in the new book trade and as a consequence, popular terms (though not necessarily specific) reign. I can't recall the last time I tore a cover off a paperback for returns...that took me back, thanks!
I have an American "Nineteen Eighty-Four" with deckled edges and wraps and I've always wondered why those features are so popular in US paperbacks but I've never seen them in the UK.
I don't know where the deckle originates or why, but I suspect it's a very old thing.
Yeah, I have some Williams I haven't read, later stuff, on the huge TBR pile! I've read 'Blood Music' three times, 'Eon' is much less my thing.
But what about my Chaosiums, Stephen! 215 x 140, extremely readable and great feel in the hands but don't sit on a shelf with anything else.
Enjoyed this a lot more than I thought I would.
Gaming books? Well, I restricted myself here to common narrative formats...beyond that it gets even more complex....
I was actually curious about this exact topic and thinking about it yesterday. Such great timing! Also curious if you have any resources on how to research first editions for books (whether they had a hardcover or only paperback, what country they first released from etc)
The Internet Speculative Fiction Database is an excellent source for genre fiction
There are various bibliographies, printed ones are most reliable, online isfdb is good but not without its flaws - SF, Fantasy and Horror- other then that its years of knowledge building...
Wonderful and fascinating video Steve, much appreciated, as always. I have a question, is the format of a book defined mostly by its dimensions? Because in my mind, mass market paperbacks meant something else entirely. In my mind, MMP was those very poor print quality cheap books you'd find on an airport, where the paper was almost newspaper quality, the ink shoddy, the size mostly small and the selection usually very popular things like romance, spy/police procedural/murder mystery stuff, and things like stephen king, michael crichton etc. I am fairly sure most people know what i am talking about. Cheap disposable books that some people buy, read, throw away. Was there an official designation for that kind of book? Was it recongnised as a format in itself, or was it just a pocket version of, say, a format?
Yes, a Book Format means nothing but its actual dimensions. If you apply 'format' in any other way to a book, you're misusing the word. If you are in the trade and using publishers' catalologues they will often indicate what format a book is, meaning what size it is.
First of all, it depends where you are in the world. I use British book trade official terminology to describe book formats. A 'mass market paperback' is a paperback produced for both trade (i.e. dedicated bookshops) and non-trade (other retailers who may stock some books) outlets. Therefore, it can NOW cover both UK 'A Format' and 'B Format' books. A paperback larger than 'B Format' is known as a 'Trade Paperback', meaning that generally speaking it is only found in 'trade' outlets (i.e. bookshops). The paperback formats known as C and D are the paperback equivalents of Demy and Royal format hardcovers respectively.
HOWEVER - although once upon a time the 'B Format' indicated 'upmarket literary fiction' (which initially would not have been stocked in non-trade outlets due to the fact that most paperbacks in non-bookshop outlets would be on wire rack spinners, which were designed for 'A Format' books), it became the predominant format for UK paperbacks per se by the late 1980s-early 1990s, with very little other than genre fiction still being issued as A Format at that time. The 'A' is now uncommon, but some 'non trade' outlets still have rack spinners for A's and those books are often printed on demand for those non-trade outlets. I have seen multiple examples of titles that a trade bookshop cannot order in A format, the B format being the standard one. These non-trade A Format editions destined specifically for rack spinners in non-bookshop outlets are the closest you'll get to a pre-1980s idea of what 'mass market paperback' might have meant to the average reader then.
As for airports, the books available are determined by which side of customs the seller is on. So, for example, a newish title still only available in the UK in hardcover may be available in such an outlet in a paperback edition - an A, a B or more commonly a C or D format trade paperback, since these are usually issued for the Eire (Republic of Ireland) market, which cannot support so many new books in hardcover- so a new hardcover bestseller can be issued simultaneously in Ireland as a trade paperback (which will not, of course, be available in the UK for copyright and market reasons). These books are known as 'Export Editions'.
You have to remember that any book can be thrown away, any book can be on cheap paper, these things are nothing to do with formats. I think any confusion is down to the way that non-booksellers use terms like 'mass market paperbacks'. There is a video on the channel all about this from around a year back. This is one of the reasons I'm so pedantic about people using the correct nomenclature when it comes to book terms, for otherwise the result is total confusion and misinformation.
In the USA, format designations are not pinned down in the way they are in the UK- although US 'A Formats' have long been the same as UK ones, there was a time when they were smaller- like the Ace Paperbacks of the 1950s and 1960s. The British A has been in use since at least 1935, when Penguin Books first appeared. US equivalents of 'B Format' vary enormously, hence the common US usage of 'trade paperbacks' for many of these, which is ironic given that the B Format's creation in the UK was inspired by American formats.
Ultimately, you have to taken on board the reality that 'mass market' is pretty much anything that is a bestseller- and 'literary fiction' can and will sell as well as genre fiction, so as an indicator of 'lowbrow' material, 'mass market paperback' is meaningless.
@@outlawbookselleroriginal I see, thanks a lot for the in-depth answer! Of course there is an established language and terminology that we, not in the business ourselves have limited familiarity with, so we can be excused for making mistakes I hope.
There is a whole different topic to be discussed on the matter, that of how useful the existing terminology is for actual buyers, and whether it is sufficient to meet their needs. As a proponent for standards in, well, most markets, since they make shopping and finding what you want or need easier, I often find myself wishing the standards in the publishing industry incorporate more factors, such as the aforementioned material quality.
Anyway, thanks again for being so helpful mate. Love from Greece.
Schooled! You can check my homework in a future haul video...
You, dear boy, are picking up the terminology like a good 'un! Speak soon!
@@outlawbookselleroriginal I quite fancied a copy of that Evans book. eBay is dangerous....
Interesting video, I do tend to shelve mine based on format, before any other categorisation.
One difference I've found with Mass Market paperbacks is that they often have a product bar code rather than one that matches the ISBN.
Well a bar code is different to an isbn, but when scanned it reads the isbn into a till or database field and pulls up the book details. Isbns became a thing at the end of the 1960s and there are some books that bear barcodes and not sbns and vice versa, but only across a very short period of time- coupla years.
@@outlawbookselleroriginal I've always found ISBN numbers interesting because of the check digits, you don't often see that built in validation with identifiers. So you can derive from the number itself if it's valid or not.
Bar Codes also map to digits, so I always assumed the bar codes that show the ISBN next to them also map to those particular digits (with X representing 10), either ISBN10 or 13. It's likely how a lot of the online book cataloguing sites work, otherwise they'd need a complete bar-code -> ISBN mapping list. They often fail to recognise mass market paperbacks for that reason.
@@jackkaraquazian Yep, check digits. I still know loads of publisher prefixes from isbns and can often identify a books' publisher from the sbn. Back in the 80s I would preset a prefix into the teleordering machine at work, type in the suffix of the book I antged to stock from a paper stocklist, enter the quantity and send it down the modem. Ancient history!
Interestingly, Scott Bradfield did a review of P. J. Farmer recently, and recommended "The Stone God Awakens".
Yes, saw it, I love Scott. I read it decades ago, must go back to it one day.
@@outlawbookselleroriginal I liked "The Other Log of Phineas Fogg", too. Read it as a late teen. Found it so funny. Will have to re-read it some day.
A very interesting and informative video. Book formats are fun.
@@AdrianESabau -They are fun! Yes, I like 'Other Log' too, prefer it to the Verne that inspired it which is not the kind of thing I normally say, but I found Fogg really irritating in Verne when I re-read it recently-almost as annoying as Sherlock Holmes!
Thx for clearing that up somewhat.
As a result I've ordered Yellow Blue Tibia.
Btw. I have a few copies from The Science Fiction Book Club (60s) in hard cover.
Are they in a special category maybe?
Anyhow in the Dutch Book Collector app I measure the books in millimeters. Very precise.
Also I am confused about what to put in the "Publisher" category by for example a Pelican book.
So far I've put Penguin.
And the American publishers do not always list anything under "Printed By" - only saying
"Manufactured in America".
Cheers!
'Yellow Blue Tibia' is great fun, hope you like it. Adam is really good at being silly, but even better at being serious- and sometimes both at once. UK SF book club are crown octavos. Publishers are more difficult to define in some way- Pelican is an imprint of Penguin. An imprint is a specific brand identity within a publishing house- it all gets a bit foggy sometimes...
A Picador Spinner!!? Sounds kinda kinky. If I owned a bar, I would definitely have a drink called the Picador Spinner!!!
Next time I have a load of mixers and spirits, I shall create a cocktail with this designation!
I think I may have got Neverending Story in an E format.
Yes, I seem to recall what may have been an E for that book, as it was so big- I have one of the Gormenghast trilogy- and the Ende is a Penguin/Puffin, which underlines what I've said about it being a Penguin format.
A,B,C...
Always be closing..
You said it. Brass balls. 'Glangarry Glen Ross'. Great stuff.
If I could only see the one with Liev Schreiber as Roma. Kudos to Pacino, but Ray Donovan killed it, acording to theatre critics. Interstingly, on stage Pacino played the part of Levene, played by the great Jack Lemmon in the movie.
@@miljenkoskreblin165 - Good to know. I imagine you've seen 'House of Games' as well...
Of course. I'm a big Mamet fan. My favorite is Spanish Prisoner, of those that he directed, of course. As far as his original screenplays go, but directed by others, Edmond, directed by Stuart Gordon is number one for me.