It's been amazing over last decade and a half slowly watching moderate Christians flip flopping on homosexuality, perfect example of how religions are forced to change their teachings over time in order to try and stay relevant.
+TheBibleReloaded I'm not sure you will read this but on the off chance you do - you've both attempted to be honest Atheists and as such, I would hope you'd admit that the extreme opposition to homosexuality is a current in Christianity that was consistently the minority to the point of being almost non-existent in many time periods and areas. Same-sex marriages occurred in Rome a mere 500 years ago - with Cardinals and Bishops in attendance. Eastern Orthodox (or as they prefer, Orthodox Catholic) churches adopted an anti-homosexuality stance only around 1700, having previously been fairly neutral. Indeed it is true that gay people were rounded up and murdered throughout Christian history - however - there is actually nothing in the New Testament that supports this. You can even argue that homosexuality was an accepted reality of the early Christian movement - and as more affluent Roman males joined the movement - they corrupted it, removing female clergy and enforcing their notions of sexuality. An originally egalitarian and tolerant movement of slaves, women and a few free Jews became a useful tool of the Roman elite. The attempts to re-establish this original Christian ethic resulted in the Cathars (and related movements further to the East). As their political "ancestors" before them, the Romans wiped out the Cathars. It would not surprise me if homosexuality regained its place at the table and Christians would begin to look on the past 300 (Orthodox), 400 (Protestant) and 500 (Catholic) years as terrible mistakes, just as they do over slavery. I am not an Atheist or a Christian, for the record. I style myself an Ignostic - a term I somewhat wish Carl Sagan had been familiar with. He often said very Ignostic things.
+Reuven Goldstein (Smart) Lack of sources aside, there is a big difference between early Christians and Christians post reformation. At some point Christians stopped looking at scripture as something that needed to be studied and interpreted by the clergy and started seeing it as an infallible official God rule book. This is especially apparent in the United states after the various Protestant "Great Awakenings" that happened in the United States. Their line up until very recently ( and it still is in many places) is that the word of God is and always has been the same and their interpretation is the absolute correct one. I'm not arguing that no Christians have ever supported gays. I'm pointing out the the specific brand of hard line Protestants are having to backpedal on their ideas of biblical inerrancy, and that's just beautiful to see.
Reuven it has nothing to do with Bronze Age Palestinian fairy tales. This is due to 'Muricanity, the religion conservatives make up as they go along to justify their bigotry against minorities
TheBibleReloaded That response lacks anything new. You merely made a longer version of your original comment. What is it with Atheists that they must see the most extreme forms of religion - that are clearly devoid of any actual faith and instead operate on blind obedience - as the authentic and dominant form of the given religion? The total size of the Protestants you mention does not even reach 10% of American Christians, let alone world Christians. The point of bringing up the early Christians is simple - all three main groups in the West - Protestant, Catholic and Orthodox all believe they are emulating the original Christians. If we can demonstrate that the original Christians behaved in a very different manner than they do - they would be forced to concede. If we choose to use logic and reasoning, as opposed to emotion - a difficult task to be sure for many Atheists - we could actually "change the world" to quote a famous Atheist. Concerning sources - I recommend first the works of Historian John Boswell - most especially this one: legacy.fordham.edu/halsall/pwh/1979boswell.asp I could recommend additional works however Boswell more than suffices for what I have written thus far.
misterdeity The sins listed there are sins that the Pauline authors later go on to claim that everyone - save Jesus - has committed. We should therefore understand it to be part of the Pauline Christian Gospel, and not a license for the state to murder gay people (or greedy people, or swindlers, or adulterers, etc) This verse, just as practically any other verse in the Bible (or any line in most books) can be twisted to support a number of things. You made it seem in the video as if Romans 1 was primarily about homosexuality (you would still have to demonstrate that the author was even talking about homosexuals as we know them today, and not pederasty or male prostitution as is more likely the case) As to original intent - it largely depends who authored this section of Romans. If an Orthodox writer, he probably intended to quote the Torah for a "What not to do" list. If a Marcionite writer - or Marcion himself - he would have intended it to be an example of the Hebrew god's cruelty and injustice, as compared to the loving Father of Jesus.
History will someday show Brian Dalton to be a genius of mankind. From his satirical side, to this thought provoking piece, he shows that modern man has a future without the burdens of religious dogma.
5:40 - 6:46 In my opinion is your best work ever. And that's saying something coming from a proud wearer of a "Wait for Lou" shirt. Well done Keith, hats off to you
THANK YOU MR. DEITY! Thank you, sir, I cannot thank you enough! I am someone who tried to do their work for them... about 25 years ago (they have been at it a while, haven't they?) and failed. I've been fighting these assholes out and proud ever since. Sharing the crap out of this. On behalf of us LGBTQ's, I sincerely thank you for this video, especially the encouragement to rage against the dying of the light!
The internet woke me to the evil of homophobic bigotry. Before it did, I was as uncomfortable as any homophobe thinking about or being in the company of gay males. My negative feelings were never based in religion but I regret not having had the understanding and tolerance that I now have. I endorse this video wholeheartedly.
+Mark Lucas Hooray for the internet!!! Yours is just like the story of so many others from whom I hear all the time. This thing is so powerful -- for good and evil. Ultimately, we have to hope that the better angels of our nature prevail. But I'm glad the effect was so positive for you.
+misterdeity I just was raised in an protestant family, and never forced to go to church. I always was told by my parents that gay is not a choice of life, but they are born that way. I always think, just live life, and let others live their life, and don't be judgemental. I really don't understand where all that hate fore gay people or atheists came from. I don't understand if Christianity is about love, then why Christians spent their life hating everything and everybody.
+arno robin werkman Yes, it's rather tragic. People just seem to think they have to divide themselves into 'them' and 'us', and nothing facilitates that kind of division as well and as effectively as religion. However I sort of think that people might be instinctively drawn to religion because it serves as a means by which they can 'express' their 'identity' more fully and confidently. Therefore, if I want to be a better man, a good man, the best man I can be - I think religion would be very enabling. On the other hand it comes at the cost of absolute 'loyalty' - saying I believe (even if I don't), pretending to believe (even if I don't) and worst of all - acting on those beliefs to the detriment of my integrity and all to often that of 'The Church's' enemies. I think people need religion and that religion can be very good for people but I have to despise religion for what it really is and what it really does. When the world wakes up and realizes that we are all in this together and that religions and politics are just tools of the despots and warlords with which to control and enslave the people, then the world will be one country and the people one nation.
Most of the secular community just laughed at the absurdity of this event, without acknowledging the real danger this poses. Thank you for taking this more seriously, Mr. Dalton!
This is a million times better version of a video I made years ago about the Westboro Baptists, whom I sarcastically called "my favorite people". The same logic applied - I loved them for exposing the true nature of their religion and having the guts to say it out loud. I have to say though, on a personal note, I owe these guys one. A few years ago, my (then 78 year old) mother finally came to her senses and began to stop believing in Christianity. But old habits are hard to break, and after spending a few months taking care of her devout sister (Parkinson's) and her even more devout husband (heart surgery) and taking them to church twice a week, she was backsliding. Then she saw these very news reports, and realized that she could never go back.
Damn, sir, I love it when you get angry--this is a fantastic piece, and the undercurrent of tightly-focused fury only makes it clear that you're not playing around, and (hopefully) makes this harder for the religious to ignore. Excellent work.
Thank you. As a former Mormon and member of the LGBTQ community, I thank you so much. This has been a rough couple weeks for us. Hearing sensible people speak in our defense is crucial to helping the most vulnerable (LGBTQ youth) avoid self harm and feel a sense of community. Thank you for this video.
Thanks for the kind words. I hear stuff like this and my first thought is about the kids who hurt and even kill themselves because they've been made to feel so worthless. It's truly horrific. I saw a picture of this man's family and all I could do was hope that none of his kids are gay.
4:29 _"imaginary figure like ... Richard Simmons."_ I literally almost fell out of my chair laughing at that one. *_WHY_* is that so funny?!?!?!?!??!??!?!????
Good video, another good reason why all religions should be consigned to the dustbin of history. For humanity to advance or to even have a future, this mental illness needs to be cured by using our best weapon education, the enemy of religion.
brilliant.. top bit of writing there.. it's hard to match the true horror of these things with clear language that is not raging or self indulgent.. a great balance here.. straightforward but pulling no punches.. ;9)
How did this video NOT get major play in the national, 24 hour news cycle? If there is anyone who has a copy of the complete conference, please, post it, send me a link, whatever. After watching the Rachel Maddow video on Patheos, I want to see the entire thing to make sure I'm not taking anything out of context. This is EXACTLY the sort of thing the general electorate needs to be made aware of, so, come election day, they understand exactly what the candidates are about, particularly those candidates who would happily destroy secular society in favor of their 'scripture'.
I want to invite you to the assurr circle, where I get help from researchers, idealogists, philosphers, and so on, it's mostly to help with translation, but rarely I link people to a post that means something to me, and I want to see if it means anything to you... You are, to me, an idealogist, and you're loud and proud. And I like that.
I wrote to the Radisson for allowing hateful people like that pastor to come on their premises and spread their message of hate in their hotels. The reply was: "Thank you for your thoughts and we will keep it in mind."
+DK Kempion i'm baffled by many of us humans that still believe pieces of badly preserved old texts compiled into one, equals to a blood driven and very contraditory deity be the owner of everything, even making a martyr of his own son (are we his sons/daughters as well?) to save humanity from original sin, which could've been easily avoided by this omnisicient asshole. Btw, most, not to say all messianic passages are straightup copies from egiptian and mesopotamian myths/deities. Search for the goddess of fertility Inanna and compare to the general life of jesus. You'll be surprised with the similarities.
Harmony Alexandria Aggressiveness is not necessary. ;) Good to see but not necessary. I agree. Wanting to believe does not make true. However, your "we" position ran counter to "gamers", ergo, you are implied you are an SJW. The (Holy) Roman Empire comparisons are passe` too because their problem was obvious... holy.
I agree with everything you say, in fact i think its worthy of another short book. i also have a confession, I whilst I grew up thinking it wrong to discriminate against the Gay community, I considered it in the way people should be allowed to be socialists, liberals, christians etc. It was only through reading Richard Dawkins books that I came to understand that how our sexuality is hard wired into us and you are no more able to choose your sexuality than your race and so its not just an allowed if you co-exist freedom of choice like politics or religion but a fundamental human right to have equality. Now I wonder why I thought sexuality was anything other than hardwired, for example as a young adolescent when I was introduced to the concept of Audrey Hepburn (yes i am that old) my testicles knew automatically she was what they were designed for and its obvious that if they had responded to Gary Cooper instead I could have had no more control over that instinct, no amount of prayer, cold baths or exposure to Audrey Hepburn could have changed it and I guess times being what they were I would have had to pretend otherwise.
the proper song for the churches should start with I'm friends with the monster thats under my bed get along with the voices inside of my head youre trying to save me stop holding your breath and you think i'm crazy yeah, you think i'm crazy YOU PERSECUTING MEEEEEE!!!!
1:39 All right, I agree with the bakers there. That whole thing was messed up and people proved that you don't have to be religious to start a witch hunt. That was an absolutely shameful attack on liberty and free expression and everyone should condemn it.
First Name Last Name Crime? What crime, pray tell, did they commit? They refused to bake a wedding cake for a gay wedding. That's it. They didn't even categorically not bake cakes for homosexuals, they just didin't want to bake for a gay wedding, because that's against their beliefs. Any business should be allowed to choose their clients/customers/employees/everyone fucking else according to their preference. If I walk into a bakery and the guy said:"hey, I don't like your face! No cake for you." Then I think he would be perfectly justified in doing so. The only repercussion he should face from that is the business he just lost. But no, this baker absolutely has to bake this cake, because the leftist mob demands it. That baker had to close his shop. He lost his livelihood, because of this bullshit. Seriously, fuck anyone who criticized this baker. You were the ones who started all this.
First Name Last Name If every single person in that society would be willing to let that part of the population starve, then I don't think it would matter much. They would die. Imagine if there were anti-discrimination laws in Nazi-germany. Hitler would have simply done away with them and the majority of people would have agreed. The majority always rules. What is your argument then? If we force people to never discriminate, they will loose their prejudices? I don't think that's gonna work.
Arphemius *"If every single person in that society would be willing to let that part of the population starve, then I don't think it would matter much. They would die. "* Nothing I can say could point out how disgusting your beliefs are better than you did here yourself.
In the difference between Christianity and Islam is that Islam does it and Christianity talks about it but both religions have that potential. that is why I am an atheist.
I'm shooting on a Sony FS7 and an A7s with either Zeiss CP2 lenses (FS7) or Rokinons (A7s). The FS7 is my all time favorite camera. And this piece was shot entirely on that.
That's why I always point out that religious extremists are called "fundamentalists" for a reason. They come back to the *fundamentals* of their religion. It's impossible to follow all of a religious book's commandments to the letter - because some of them are mutually exclusive - but extremists are the ones that follow them as closely as logically possible. Which makes it irritating to hear that islamists are "not true muslims". In a sense, they _are_, they are even *truer* muslims than moderates. I praise moderates for not following their religious books down to the letter, because they are more valuable as human beings as a result; but come on, stop claiming that extremists are not true followers, and instead start distanciating yourselves from them and the religion they so closely follow. If a book says "kill the infidels", then stop taking pride in saying that you are true followers of that book and that the ones who do kill the infidels are not; _get rid of the book_, or at the very least, rewrite it, minus the murder-mongering part.
+Ysgramornorris You see here is the real problem, the book, in this case the Q'uran doesn´t say "Kill the infidels", it merely says "kill the apostates" which was a political necessity in the early times as nothing makes a religion look weirder for outsiders than people jumping in and out at will. Actually if we believe documents from these times, those who opposed islam used this tactic to difame it, they joined and left and joined and left, until the order "kill all apostates" was added. Btw: Early christians killed all apostates as well, just like early mormons did, and supposably any other religion did as well. In another verse it says to kill those who try to seperate you from the "true" belief. Something like "They want you to be infidels, just like they are, so kill them blabla....", which is actually only directed at missionaries trying to teach something else than islam, and of course is as well purely political. Whoever invented islam knew that there is no god, as well as he knew there are other religions trying to pull off the same scam he just did, so attack is the best defense here. That´s why moderate muslim scholars call those who try to kill all infidels "not true muslims" because they simply do not follow scripture or at least interpret it differently.
Shato Nyruami There are self-identified muslims murdering apostates nowadays, so what do moderate scholars have to say about them? "Btw: Early christians killed all apostates as well, just like early mormons did, and supposably any other religion did as well." ... Yep, I wasn't trying to argue otherwise. Though I would be more specific and say that abrahamic religions are the only ones I know of that make it a point to kill apostates/infidels. I would gladly accept any counterexample. I cited islamists being called "not true muslims" because they are the ones we hear about the most these days, but I could have made the same point with a christian murdering homosexuals or selling his daughter as a servant/slave and being called "not true christian".
+Ysgramornorris Oh this guy, the christian of course, would be called way worse things than only "not true christian" Pagans killed infidels/apostates, Romans and Greeks did as well, if you said something wrong about Wotan you also didn´t live very long in pre-medieval european north, so it´s not the behaviour of judeo/christian/islamic sect leaders, it´s a common behaviour of every person gaining their personal wealth from scamming the masses into believing in a god he just pulled out of his arse. It´s strictly business and if you allow others to milk your cows there would be less milk for you.
Mr. Deity, I completely agree that we have to get rid of all these Iron Age superstitions, as well as the ones made up more recently, but I don't agree with banning or burning religious texts. All we need to do is teach people how ridiculous these texts are, and how superstition and dogmatic belief have hurt humanity throughout the ages, and still do.
+Dorothyellen w I keep seeing it and wanting to read it, but I worry that it won't be good. I guess I live with that fear for every book lol, but it somehow feels different when it is an author with another extremely successful book or series. I always worry that they put everything they had into the book they are most famous for lol.
I think this would be good time to say something about Voldemort, and a pretty bad time to avoid saying something about Isla... whoops, I mean Voldemort.
+Frank Kelley An atheist can gather sticks whenever s/he pleases. So the simple answer to your question is,"Become an atheist. We harm no-one, and definitely do not eat children. Not whole or raw, anyway".
***** no it isn't.. Jesus refuted that teaching of the pharisees quite handily. What you are referring to is Pharisaical teaching not Christs. There are some great books that can help you understand it if you would like.
Have to say, Brian, the only weakness in this video is that you didn't actually show clips of that conference. I watched the Rachael Maddow piece which showed portions of it, and those excerpts spoke volumes. Just a thought.
misterdeity [nod] Saw it and watched it - on an empty stomach, thankfully. I just thought having a bit of that would have taken an already strong video and made its point utterly unmistakable. My $0.02 worth.
I've coined a new phrase: "Turd Picker". Pastor Swanson is a Turd Picker because whilst he is quite happy with Lev 20:13, I bet he would have a problem with giving everything he owns to the poor as required by a literal interpretation of Matt 19:21 etc etc. So whilst I think it's a great video and wholeheartedly support it's message in other ways I don't agree that Swanson is being honest, and I don't like the way you railed against Cherry Pickers. I like Cherry Pickers! Since the Bible has contradictory passages I don't think it's possible to take it literally so Christians, whether they realise it or not are always in one or other of the two categories "Cherry Picker" or "Turd Picker". FSM knows there are enough Turds! But pointing them out to Cherry Pickers will not turn every Cherry Picker into and Atheist. It might however turn some of them into Turd Pickers. So embrace the Cherry Pickers for they shall inherit the kingdom of heaven (well, don't tell them they wont!). If you come across a Cherry Picker who has picked up a Turd, like someone who is otherwise a great person but refuses to support Same Sex Marriage on biblical grounds, by all means point out that this is a Turd and they should put it down to make space in their brain for more Cherries. My favorite tactic is to tell them that it is my belief that if Christ did return tomorrow (unlikely as that might be) his *first* act would be to bless a Same Sex Marriage to show his support. And, yes, that's Cherry Picking, but I have found it to be effective because it appeals to Cherry Pickers. I've actually found it makes some Turd Pickers stop and think too! In summary: The world will not turn Atheist overnight. But it would be a better place with fewer Turd Pickers and more Cherry Pickers. Lets focus therefor on the Turd Pickers and only challenge the Cherry Pickers when they pick Turds.
+K Tell I'm going to be using those phrases, they make a great and clear distinction. And you are right, I do prefer cherry pickers to the turd pickers too, and it is the turd pickers causing all the real conflict.
Those determined to invent God(s), do the world a favor and have your god say, "1. Do not judge what you may not understand; for the fact that you do not understand disqualifies you from casting judgment. 2. Be kind, it's that simple." That said, why should any god be required for us to identify the worth and value of what is, by any reasonable standard, self-evident?
Ah, but the ppl who advocate such policies don't actually know anyone who is gay. That's why they can be so callous about it. It's why politicians can be against gay marriage until they find out their own son is gay (I think it was an Ohio Republican Representative). The ones I can't understand is the ppl who know someone and upon learning they're gay, immediately hate/abuse them (I'm thinking specifically of family members regarding abuse, although verbal abuse is often hurled at non-family members).
+Tensai55 *"don't actually know anyone who is gay."* They do, but they don't know those people _are_ gay, because of the social stigma. Eating shellfish is just as bad in christianity, but it doesn't have the same stigma, so it's fine to meet your buds at the Red Lobster after church.
First Name Last Name And that's why attitudes towards gay rights started changing after there was a concerted effort to come out - including among Christians who just years prior were against gay rights. But we all know how Christians love to thump the Bible when it concerns other ppl, when it's about them? Nope, it's totally okay! Nothing to see here!
The bakery thing is ridiculous. The gov't should not be able to force any privately owned company to perform any non-mortal services for anyone for any reason.
+Tom Riddle Agreed. Someone who refuses a service to gays should just be scorned and boycotted - not forced to do anything. But.... overall the whole advocating mass-murder thing outweighs this by a lot.
+MindLaboratory No they should be fined because they broke their business licence where they signed on the dotted line saying they would serve everyone. Like a Mennonite should not apply to drive a bus these people should not take a job selling to the public if they believe in their spin so strongly. Ensuring their faith based bigotry is protected is not the states job, they need to suck it up and ignore this dogma or find new work. It is no ones responsibility to accommodate whatever nonsense they buy into and they have no right to have the state support bigotry, we know how what happens when bigots are given free reign.
misterdeity I want to start off by stating clearly that I have nothing against the minorities themselves. Allow me to explain my thinking. I fall more on the capitalistic side of economics, so I think that bigots should have a right to refuse service to anyone for any reason they want. They will, hopefully, receive so much bad press because of this bigotry that they will either have to cave in and cease the discrimination or go out of business. I do think, however, that any privately owned company that receives governmental support- be it bailouts or subsidies, what have you- should be held to a standard of serving everyone; they are acting, at that point, as a branch of government and not as a private organization. Love your content, btw. I wish you uploaded far more frequently.
+Tom Riddle Well, this is exactly my problem with people who fall more on the capitalistic side of economics. What you're saying is that you'll allow injustice and discrimination because Capitalism and Freedom!!!! But what if society is majority racist or homophobe? Those businesses won't go out of business. They'll thrive! That's a fairy tale that Libertarians and Capitalists tell themselves -- it's really no different from religious fairy tales. And the fact is that every business in this country benefits from the taxes we all pay either by using the roads for deliveries, public utilities, or whatever infrastructure they use. That is why EVERYONE should have access to the goods and services produced. And that's completely ignoring the moral argument. I don't think you realize how depressingly awful human beings are when left to themselves. But that's the reality.
+craig youngman which version of Douglas Adams are you talking about The Books, The BBC Radio series, the BBC T.V. series, or the movie? wow Douglas Adams has been gone for less then 15 years now, and already we can have a nice 4 way holy war over his books (he must be soinning in his grave for what I am saying) but why not have a nice little holy war over the proper form for Douglas Adams. I can just see it now those who prefer the old BBC series raid and behead those who prefer the movie.... then we can watch as those who prefer the movie retaliate by burning at the stake all those who prefer the books as heritics. As though prefer the radio play will attack the those filthy heritics who prefer the movie and behead, burn them, if you want to know how this turns out, just examine the history of the "holy" bible.
Another great video chock full of wisdom. Common sense really; it shouldn't take wisdom to see how wrong the lessons in the bible are. It takes only the willingness to know what it actually says and the open-mindedness to accept how evil it really is.
I fight for the gay community and for the people Who's been bullied by religion and anyone I mean Anyone who has been rediculed bullied and or just down right hurt about what people do or say to them remember this They are mere people and You are unique we are all In need of love. WE NEED TO STOP FIGHTING and put LOVE ABOVE all else I was once a hater and hated everyone that hurt me and or hated the way I am. Now since I've opened my eyes I see differently and Now love even the one that hurt me we should walk in peace and love. I LOVE YOU ALL MY sweeties keep on keeping in love and fight for peace and harmony I'm tearing up right now cause You all never went through what I went through and now I wish Love and peace upon all. Even the people that don't believe in God well I say Peace be with you and may you find the love like I have in your own heart. People tend to throw away God cause they find no proof and or reason to believe in a monster or a fairy tale I tell you He is real and he does care about you all he gave the free will to you all to either reject him and or accept him the fact humans Can be the smartest people on earth and try to disprove god Its the faith I have to keep on keeping on It helps me and it made me a better loving person. DON'T BLAME GOD FOR the bad things in life Blame Life it happens to be difficult and or easy my sweeties. My life has been really bad but I no longer blame God he sees me life and know I can make it work. I REMEMBER one thing Is that If my life was really bad I look to my hero Jesus and look at his life that ultimately killed him for being who he was and then look back at my life I see that my life isnt that bad after all. We all Need love and we all need to Be loved So you are loved by me and Loved by someone else don't give up you are beautiful all stop the fighting and stop the hate and love one another.Philo A good Jewish Philosopher that lived in Jesus time line 20 BC - AD 40 If the prohibitions of the Levitical Holiness Code informed its meaning, arsenos koiten condemns shrine prostitution, based on the context of Lev 18 & 20. Philo lived at the same time Jesus lived. During the life of Christ, Philo understood Moses, in Leviticus 18:22 and 20:13, to be condemning shrine prostitution. Philo's understanding that the arseno-koit stem refers to shrine prostitution is 2000 years old. It is not a modern argument from gays and lesbians. Instead, it is the common first century Jewish viewpoint. Gays did not invent this viewpoint and because it did not originate with gays, it is not historical revisionism by gays seeking an alibi for our sin. If the arsenokoit stem from Leviticus 20:13, arsenos koiten, gave us the Greek word Paul used in 1 Cor 6:9 (most anti-gay Christians believe Paul borrowed the word from the Septuagint translation of Lev 18:22 and 20:13), then under-standing arsenokoites as a reference to shrine prostitution was the common first century view when Paul used the word in 1 Cor 6:9 and 1 Tim 1:10 Romans 1. Because the NIV did such a lousy job and mistranslated the Greek word, arsenokoitai, many people concluded that homosexuals will not inherit the kingdom of God. If the NIV translators had bothered to study instead of just going by what the Greek lexicons say, the gay community could have avoided a lot of pain and heartache. Arsenokoitai has never been a reference to a lesbian couple or a gay male couple. Instead, in the first century, arsenokoitai referred to shrine prostitution or rape or having sex with angels. That is the behavior Paul described when he used the Greek word, (arsenokoitai shrine temple prostitution )which were from both genders when Pauls teaching was expressing woman left natural order was in refference to (arsenokoitai Shrine prostitution) heterosexual took part in it too not just gays. Bible had errors mere men and writters of said Bible wether John Wycliffe or King James said on terms of a dressing homosexual it was thier OPINIONS MERE MEN'S OPINIONS today's bible derived from John Wycliffe and King James Also Did you know they had REMOVED GODS NAME 7000 TIMES in the bible replacing it with titles such as God, Lord and King these were the many errors found in the bibles today. I am not a Christian I don't want to fall in a religion that Hurts and mentally scars someone. I AM IN A RELATIONSHIP WITH YEHSUA Jesus christ and I love him more then any of you would imagine I give praise to my God mostly every night with my piano playing. Being bullied by some christians that think gays wrong empowered me to be strong and loving even more. I LIVE BY THE FRUITS OF THE SPIRIT Which is LOVE, Joy Peace and longsuffering. My longsuffering is being scared of who I am cause on thoughts I might get beat up or murdered just for me loving someone. Sodom and gamora burned down Cause of the people of the cities on these crime against God. Rape, Lust, Idolatry, worshipping other gods shrine Prostitution and they were over Fed did not care for the needy They stole they commited adultery here's a literal term in the scriptures I am posting here.......Behold, this was the guilt of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had pride, excess of food, and prosperous ease, but did not aid the poor and needy. Ezekiel 16:49 No mention of gays in it. So I THINK take it with a pinch of salt. I am following Christ not no mere men that tell me to change who I am. I'm gonna follow the ten commandments and love Everyone even the ones that oppose me And or don't like me. I love my Yehshua No matter who says I'm wrong about everything it's my opinions. I'm sure The writers of the books in the bible had THIER OWN Opinions and thought of what they thought was right too doesn't mean it was of god. That's where it stops me If it was inspired by God why would he have put A women who was raped shall be married to her rapist. I think that was the writers Opinion and not of God. As a painter would paint scenes around him one would paint those scenes. As a poet See's Life and death around him one would write it down. I am inspired to follow Jesus and trust him he has my tomorrow and he is my savior. God Yehweh and Yehshua is my love and I shall love all and respect all. Sorry for the long rambling but love you all and love you too. God bless all of you and bless the ones that oppose of the message I'm using the heart I have to help the needy and Love above all else.
+Michael “Magic Lion” Mullen Love is the other side of the answer, it can only come about if you a, fight. b, educate. If these loud mouth haters have a platform, there must be as load a platform shouting them down. Give them an inch (pun intended) and They will just use it to be loader. Lets not kid ourselves here, this is a war, for the future, either we back down and return to the dark ages, or we fight. Its real, love is only a possible future, we have to stand up for it.
I appreciate your passion, my friend, but you let it carry you just a tad over the line. The reason this kind of offensive, heinous speech is still legal is that we have freedom of speech. I don't think you want to live in a world where thoughts become illegal any more than I do. Other than that, I agree completely with this video. Keep up the good work. Love you. (See how I reproved betimes with sharpness there?)
+Craig Good He doesn't argue that they should be arrested for saying these things, so freedom of speech isn't even relevant! dissentofawoman.wordpress.com/2012/07/19/top-10-things-freedom-of-speech-is-not/ Secondly, he could probably even argue that they should be arrested! take a look at number five, six and nine. The words of the speakers, and applause from the audience, could very much be taken as a threat of violence.
+Craig Good Well, actually I do live in a country where it is illegal to publically demand a crime. Just for your information in almost every civilized coutry in this world such an action is prohibited by law. I cite the law for you: § 111 Public demand of a crime (1) Who publically, in a meeting or by distribution of scripture, request any unlawful activity, will be punished like an instigator.(§ 26) If nobody follows your demand the punishment is up to 5 years of jail, if someone follows it, you will be punished according to the crime that has been performed, in the case of murder it´s a life sentence. You know, we who live in the civilzed world do value human rights way higher than the right of the individual to spill his hatred. Maybe you should learn from countries with crime rates way lower than yours.
This is one where I'm not a purest. I think calling for a group of people to be exterminated (especially in the name of God) should probably not be covered under the first amendment. If we don't allow threats to our President, I think I can live with that kind of restriction without feeling like anyone's right to free expression has been monstrously curtailed.
+misterdeity The last thing I would want is for these people to think this shit and not say it due to fear of punishment. Let them run their mouths and spew all this barbaric ancient crap so that the world can see them for what they are. You know what they say about sunlight and its disinfectant properties. Btw, for shits and giggles, we should all take up a collection to put a PI on this Swanson dude. Anybody wanna guess what we'd find?
Wow. You made an impressive amount of allegations about what was being said at this conference and yet you supplied not one shred or clip of evidence. Forgive me if i don't believe what you're saying.
+Dinosaur2508 Here you go: /watch?v=LgZU6pGKgRk You know what time it took to find this clip? A little bit less time than you took writing your ignorant comment.
I don't agree with homosexuality or the gay community, but I also don't care how another person gets their rocks off. I do, however, adamantly disagree against government to have the entertaining the thought to support heinous acts against other human beings based on whatever the political climate of the day is.
+Andrew Casey homosexuality is not a proposition you can agree or disagree with. Saying "I don't agree" makes no semantic sense. What you mean is "I hate the gay community".
Adrian was more or less correct, I for one, have some problems toward what we would call, "Gay Culture", additionally, i find most gay men generally disagreeable, i.e we don't get along. Lastly, I don't believe in the concept of sexual preference, I think that is not a natural concept but a societal construct that became attached to human sexuality. Therefore, no one is actually gay or straight in any strict, concrete definition, but simply sexually attracted to whatever is floating there boat at the time. How a person would think about a foot fetish is how I think about homosexuality.
I don't think the bakery was in the wrong. They were a private business with the right to refuse service, and it was absolutely an attack on their religion for them to be made pariahs and for their gofundme page to be shut down. That being said, that county clerk was responsible for enacting civil marriages, not religious ones, and she should have followed the law or quit her tax-funded job. I think lumping the bakers into the same group as the clerk goes against the whole principle of freedom of religion. The gay couple could have simply gone to another bakery. I think that if you believe the bakers did anything wrong, then you are against the same liberty that me and many others to be atheists.
+Butt Franklin It is the same set of rules that ended whites only restaurants. It was not an attack on religion but but it was an attack on state backed bigotry. Your spin is akin to the defense of racists because they should have a right to say who comes in their restaurant, the black people should just go somewhere else. It seems an untenable argument to me but then I do not value bigotry as a right. I value religious liberty for all, I do not value their right to limit the rights of others because of it. Their freedom of religion is competently intact, they are still free to be an overt bigot against anyone. That the law does not allow you to push those views into the sphere of public commerce only makes sense as it would make specific minority groups into second class citizens just like they used to be. Like a Mennonite should not apply to drive a bus these people should not open a store that sells to the general public because their faith prevents them from doing the job, it is their choice. They are totally free to believe what ever they want . Be they a bigot or someone who thinks their god hates gay people their right to be an assholes is completely intact. What they are are not free to do is limit the rights of others based on that spin. If they do not want to sell cakes to gay weddings then do not sell cakes and no one will force them to. Like a Mennonite bus driver would have to they need to find different work or suspend the aspect of their faith that limits them from doing the job. Our freedom to be atheists does not step on the rights of anyone else or limit their options. It is based on the exact same form of religious freedom that even the most gay hating Christians or devout Mennonites enjoy. I do not extend them the right to limit the options of others and if their faith steps on a job then the job or faith should go and no one else should have to pay for it. I can not and should not be able to limit commerce from anyone because of their religion, race or sexual persuasion even if we disagree and so it is with Christians too, these rules are evenly applied.
It's their store, how can you say they must be forced to sell to the all-inclusive public when the right to refuse service exists? You as a consumer obviously have no legal right to shop at every store. Also explain to me how they still have freedom of religion if any related venture they create will now be shot down? Do you honestly believe they were limiting anyone's options? Do you honestly think the next bakery wouldn't jump at the chance to make the same cake with a gay-friendly discount for their story? Atheism doesn't limit a persons options, but atheists sure limited those Christian's options for doing business.
Butt Franklin They do have to, that is what they agreed to when they singed their business license. The right to refuse service is for very specific things not attached to race, religion or sexual persuasion. Dress code, cleanliness, intoxication etc are all reasonable restrictions that are accommodated. They are also temporary and can be changed by putting on a t-shirt, taking a shower or sleeping it off. As a consumer I have a legal right to shop in any store where I can afford the merchandise. No store with a business license can refuse my service based on an non publicly stated business policy. The have freedom of religion it is their faith that limits their options. Plenty of christens disagree with gay marriage but would still sell the cake. They are not attending the wedding they are selling the product they make. That these people feel so strongly about this means they should not have signed their business license like a Mennonite should not complain he is not getting hired by the bus company. This is their problem and if they feel this strongly then the need to find other work that does not compromise their morals. The issue is on each individuals back and no one else as it should be. This has nothing to do with atheism. A large number of christens agree that these people should not have bigotry enshrined as a right. It would be a slippery slope, how long until we had gay free markets, gay free hospitals in out of the way places. What possible value do we get from people having the right to pick and choose who can get service based on their personal hunch. Your spin opens the door for whites only restaurants and limited options for any minority. This would not happen in all places but even one area like this would do nothing but divide us further. I look at what laws like this have done for integration and see it as the way forward.
"Your spin opens the door for whites only restaurants and limited options for any minority." This implies that only whites would ever be discriminatory in any way, which recent events at certain colleges have shown is completely false. And what's wrong with a white, black, gay-only restaurant? If someone wants to cut their clientele and lose money for what they believe in, why shouldn't they have that right? Consider Hobby Lobby. They largely had the same argument as the bakery, but the difference is that HL didn't need crowdfunding. Closely-held companies can work around their beliefs now. Gay-free markets: So? Go to a gay-friendly one. It's not like Wal-Mart can do this and cut off food for a whole area. Gay-free hospitals: Don't slippery slope this, man. Hospitals already don't follow the same laws as stores, no reason that needs to change.
+Butt Franklin jim crow died a long time ago. that era is done and the bakers chose to break anti discrimination laws along with doc dropping on the gay couple was illegal.
You know I kind of expected a lot more "thumbs down" on this particular video. Certainly the god freaks share your videos with a comment along the lines of "check out this guy who is going to hell" I suspect the gay hatred is not as widely embraced as the news and the vocal minority would have me believe.
+North Carolina I assure you, xians hate gays plenty. Looking at the votes for a single video to form your opinion is foolish. People watch videos that appeal to them, and gay or pro-gay videos don't appeal to the average xian, so they're not going to watch this.
All these years later, and still unfathomably BASED. You rock Mr Deity! Keep fighting the good fight! ❤️🏳️🌈
It's been amazing over last decade and a half slowly watching moderate Christians flip flopping on homosexuality, perfect example of how religions are forced to change their teachings over time in order to try and stay relevant.
+TheBibleReloaded I'm not sure you will read this but on the off chance you do - you've both attempted to be honest Atheists and as such, I would hope you'd admit that the extreme opposition to homosexuality is a current in Christianity that was consistently the minority to the point of being almost non-existent in many time periods and areas. Same-sex marriages occurred in Rome a mere 500 years ago - with Cardinals and Bishops in attendance.
Eastern Orthodox (or as they prefer, Orthodox Catholic) churches adopted an anti-homosexuality stance only around 1700, having previously been fairly neutral. Indeed it is true that gay people were rounded up and murdered throughout Christian history - however - there is actually nothing in the New Testament that supports this. You can even argue that homosexuality was an accepted reality of the early Christian movement - and as more affluent Roman males joined the movement - they corrupted it, removing female clergy and enforcing their notions of sexuality. An originally egalitarian and tolerant movement of slaves, women and a few free Jews became a useful tool of the Roman elite. The attempts to re-establish this original Christian ethic resulted in the Cathars (and related movements further to the East). As their political "ancestors" before them, the Romans wiped out the Cathars.
It would not surprise me if homosexuality regained its place at the table and Christians would begin to look on the past 300 (Orthodox), 400 (Protestant) and 500 (Catholic) years as terrible mistakes, just as they do over slavery.
I am not an Atheist or a Christian, for the record. I style myself an Ignostic - a term I somewhat wish Carl Sagan had been familiar with. He often said very Ignostic things.
+Reuven Goldstein (Smart) Lack of sources aside, there is a big difference between early Christians and Christians post reformation. At some point Christians stopped looking at scripture as something that needed to be studied and interpreted by the clergy and started seeing it as an infallible official God rule book. This is especially apparent in the United states after the various Protestant "Great Awakenings" that happened in the United States. Their line up until very recently ( and it still is in many places) is that the word of God is and always has been the same and their interpretation is the absolute correct one. I'm not arguing that no Christians have ever supported gays. I'm pointing out the the specific brand of hard line Protestants are having to backpedal on their ideas of biblical inerrancy, and that's just beautiful to see.
Reuven it has nothing to do with Bronze Age Palestinian fairy tales. This is due to 'Muricanity, the religion conservatives make up as they go along to justify their bigotry against minorities
TheBibleReloaded
That response lacks anything new. You merely made a longer version of your original comment.
What is it with Atheists that they must see the most extreme forms of religion - that are clearly devoid of any actual faith and instead operate on blind obedience - as the authentic and dominant form of the given religion? The total size of the Protestants you mention does not even reach 10% of American Christians, let alone world Christians.
The point of bringing up the early Christians is simple - all three main groups in the West - Protestant, Catholic and Orthodox all believe they are emulating the original Christians. If we can demonstrate that the original Christians behaved in a very different manner than they do - they would be forced to concede. If we choose to use logic and reasoning, as opposed to emotion - a difficult task to be sure for many Atheists - we could actually "change the world" to quote a famous Atheist.
Concerning sources - I recommend first the works of Historian John Boswell - most especially this one:
legacy.fordham.edu/halsall/pwh/1979boswell.asp
I could recommend additional works however Boswell more than suffices for what I have written thus far.
misterdeity
The sins listed there are sins that the Pauline authors later go on to claim that everyone - save Jesus - has committed. We should therefore understand it to be part of the Pauline Christian Gospel, and not a license for the state to murder gay people (or greedy people, or swindlers, or adulterers, etc)
This verse, just as practically any other verse in the Bible (or any line in most books) can be twisted to support a number of things. You made it seem in the video as if Romans 1 was primarily about homosexuality (you would still have to demonstrate that the author was even talking about homosexuals as we know them today, and not pederasty or male prostitution as is more likely the case)
As to original intent - it largely depends who authored this section of Romans. If an Orthodox writer, he probably intended to quote the Torah for a "What not to do" list. If a Marcionite writer - or Marcion himself - he would have intended it to be an example of the Hebrew god's cruelty and injustice, as compared to the loving Father of Jesus.
History will someday show Brian Dalton to be a genius of mankind. From his satirical side, to this thought provoking piece, he shows that modern man has a future without the burdens of religious dogma.
5:40 - 6:46 In my opinion is your best work ever. And that's saying something coming from a proud wearer of a "Wait for Lou" shirt. Well done Keith, hats off to you
THANK YOU MR. DEITY! Thank you, sir, I cannot thank you enough! I am someone who tried to do their work for them... about 25 years ago (they have been at it a while, haven't they?) and failed. I've been fighting these assholes out and proud ever since. Sharing the crap out of this. On behalf of us LGBTQ's, I sincerely thank you for this video, especially the encouragement to rage against the dying of the light!
The internet woke me to the evil of homophobic bigotry. Before it did, I was as uncomfortable as any homophobe thinking about or being in the company of gay males. My negative feelings were never based in religion but I regret not having had the understanding and tolerance that I now have. I endorse this video wholeheartedly.
+Mark Lucas Awesome!
+Mark Lucas Hooray for the internet!!! Yours is just like the story of so many others from whom I hear all the time. This thing is so powerful -- for good and evil. Ultimately, we have to hope that the better angels of our nature prevail. But I'm glad the effect was so positive for you.
+misterdeity I just was raised in an protestant family, and never forced to go to church.
I always was told by my parents that gay is not a choice of life, but they are born that way.
I always think, just live life, and let others live their life, and don't be judgemental.
I really don't understand where all that hate fore gay people or atheists came from.
I don't understand if Christianity is about love, then why Christians spent their life hating everything and everybody.
+arno robin werkman Yes, it's rather tragic. People just seem to think they have to divide themselves into 'them' and 'us', and nothing facilitates that kind of division as well and as effectively as religion. However I sort of think that people might be instinctively drawn to religion because it serves as a means by which they can 'express' their 'identity' more fully and confidently. Therefore, if I want to be a better man, a good man, the best man I can be - I think religion would be very enabling. On the other hand it comes at the cost of absolute 'loyalty' - saying I believe (even if I don't), pretending to believe (even if I don't) and worst of all - acting on those beliefs to the detriment of my integrity and all to often that of 'The Church's' enemies. I think people need religion and that religion can be very good for people but I have to despise religion for what it really is and what it really does.
When the world wakes up and realizes that we are all in this together and that religions and politics are just tools of the despots and warlords with which to control and enslave the people, then the world will be one country and the people one nation.
Most of the secular community just laughed at the absurdity of this event, without acknowledging the real danger this poses.
Thank you for taking this more seriously, Mr. Dalton!
This is a million times better version of a video I made years ago about the Westboro Baptists, whom I sarcastically called "my favorite people". The same logic applied - I loved them for exposing the true nature of their religion and having the guts to say it out loud.
I have to say though, on a personal note, I owe these guys one. A few years ago, my (then 78 year old) mother finally came to her senses and began to stop believing in Christianity. But old habits are hard to break, and after spending a few months taking care of her devout sister (Parkinson's) and her even more devout husband (heart surgery) and taking them to church twice a week, she was backsliding. Then she saw these very news reports, and realized that she could never go back.
Hard hitting and right on the mark. This needs to be on national media. Are you there bill Maher?
Damn, sir, I love it when you get angry--this is a fantastic piece, and the undercurrent of tightly-focused fury only makes it clear that you're not playing around, and (hopefully) makes this harder for the religious to ignore.
Excellent work.
Thank you. As a former Mormon and member of the LGBTQ community, I thank you so much. This has been a rough couple weeks for us. Hearing sensible people speak in our defense is crucial to helping the most vulnerable (LGBTQ youth) avoid self harm and feel a sense of community. Thank you for this video.
+Emily Allan Don't despair Emily. There are lots of us who aren't LGBTQ that are watching out for you.
Thank you. That means a lot.
Thanks for the kind words. I hear stuff like this and my first thought is about the kids who hurt and even kill themselves because they've been made to feel so worthless. It's truly horrific. I saw a picture of this man's family and all I could do was hope that none of his kids are gay.
4:29 _"imaginary figure like ... Richard Simmons."_
I literally almost fell out of my chair laughing at that one. *_WHY_* is that so funny?!?!?!?!??!??!?!????
Thanks for talking about this and being so vocal. Thanks man.
It is also happening in Africa where our good missionaries help to fashion the anti-gay laws.
Superb video, and top notch production quality as always!
scary scary scary...
helps me better understand why you are passionate about educating people on the pitfalls of religion.
Good video, another good reason why all religions should be consigned to the dustbin of history. For humanity to advance or to even have a future, this mental illness needs to be cured by using our best weapon education, the enemy of religion.
"Think about someone who is gay."
Answer: me. Great video mister Deity like always! :)
By the way, thank you for making this video. Keep kicking ass man.
Superb to bring out the "other side" at this moment... Shows people it's not just one religious ideology that's cookoo in the brain.
Hoooo.... Tell it like it is! Well said, Brian.
brilliant.. top bit of writing there.. it's hard to match the true horror of these things with clear language that is not raging or self indulgent.. a great balance here.. straightforward but pulling no punches.. ;9)
Great rant, Mr Deity!
This is depressing. But your passion is inspiring. Keep up the good work.
Hahahaha! Richard Simmons! Excellent video, glad to be a patreon.
Did you know that Ford Prefect is actually the model of a car? I just thought of that when you mentioned Hitchhiker's.
+HerkRants It's mentioned in the book.
It's been many years since I read it.
How did this video NOT get major play in the national, 24 hour news cycle?
If there is anyone who has a copy of the complete conference, please, post it, send me a link, whatever.
After watching the Rachel Maddow video on Patheos, I want to see the entire thing to make sure I'm not taking anything out of context.
This is EXACTLY the sort of thing the general electorate needs to be made aware of, so, come election day, they understand exactly what the candidates are about, particularly those candidates who would happily destroy secular society in favor of their 'scripture'.
Brian nails it again.
I want to invite you to the assurr circle, where I get help from researchers, idealogists, philosphers, and so on, it's mostly to help with translation, but rarely I link people to a post that means something to me, and I want to see if it means anything to you... You are, to me, an idealogist, and you're loud and proud. And I like that.
I wrote to the Radisson for allowing hateful people like that pastor to come on their premises and spread their message of hate in their hotels. The reply was: "Thank you for your thoughts and we will keep it in mind."
Your intellectual ideology is beautiful.
Perfect video for such terrible times… thanks Mr.
We are winning.
Mythology is mythology.
+DK Kempion i'm baffled by many of us humans that still believe pieces of badly preserved old texts compiled into one, equals to a blood driven and very contraditory deity be the owner of everything, even making a martyr of his own son (are we his sons/daughters as well?) to save humanity from original sin, which could've been easily avoided by this omnisicient asshole.
Btw, most, not to say all messianic passages are straightup copies from egiptian and mesopotamian myths/deities. Search for the goddess of fertility Inanna and compare to the general life of jesus. You'll be surprised with the similarities.
NoFrameHell You need only look at the modern SJW movement. The weak demand the strong take care of them. History repeats.
Harmony Alexandria
That made NO sense.
Harmony Alexandria
Aggressiveness is not necessary. ;) Good to see but not necessary.
I agree. Wanting to believe does not make true. However, your "we" position ran counter to "gamers", ergo, you are implied you are an SJW.
The (Holy) Roman Empire comparisons are passe` too because their problem was obvious... holy.
Gave me chills when you addressed the LGBTQ people directly and begged them not to do his work for him. Bravo. Bra-fucking-vo.
I agree with everything you say, in fact i think its worthy of another short book.
i also have a confession, I whilst I grew up thinking it wrong to discriminate against the Gay community, I considered it in the way people should be allowed to be socialists, liberals, christians etc. It was only through reading Richard Dawkins books that I came to understand that how our sexuality is hard wired into us and you are no more able to choose your sexuality than your race and so its not just an allowed if you co-exist freedom of choice like politics or religion but a fundamental human right to have equality.
Now I wonder why I thought sexuality was anything other than hardwired, for example as a young adolescent when I was introduced to the concept of Audrey Hepburn (yes i am that old) my testicles knew automatically she was what they were designed for and its obvious that if they had responded to Gary Cooper instead I could have had no more control over that instinct, no amount of prayer, cold baths or exposure to Audrey Hepburn could have changed it and I guess times being what they were I would have had to pretend otherwise.
Don't have enough thumbs. Thumbs up, thumbs up, thumbs up. Thank you for this.
I especially like the picture of the Jesus Buddy statue from "Dogma."
the proper song for the churches should start with
I'm friends with the monster
thats under my bed
get along with the voices
inside of my head
youre trying to save me
stop holding your breath
and you think i'm crazy
yeah, you think i'm crazy
YOU PERSECUTING MEEEEEE!!!!
1:39 All right, I agree with the bakers there. That whole thing was messed up and people proved that you don't have to be religious to start a witch hunt. That was an absolutely shameful attack on liberty and free expression and everyone should condemn it.
+Arphemius Witch hunt? Please show me how the crime these half-bakers were accused of was fabricated based on religious texts and superstition.
First Name Last Name
Crime? What crime, pray tell, did they commit? They refused to bake a wedding cake for a gay wedding. That's it.
They didn't even categorically not bake cakes for homosexuals, they just didin't want to bake for a gay wedding, because that's against their beliefs. Any business should be allowed to choose their clients/customers/employees/everyone fucking else according to their preference.
If I walk into a bakery and the guy said:"hey, I don't like your face! No cake for you." Then I think he would be perfectly justified in doing so. The only repercussion he should face from that is the business he just lost.
But no, this baker absolutely has to bake this cake, because the leftist mob demands it.
That baker had to close his shop. He lost his livelihood, because of this bullshit.
Seriously, fuck anyone who criticized this baker. You were the ones who started all this.
Arphemius Wow. You approve of the possibility for a society to starve a part of the population to death because of bigotry. I have no words for that.
First Name Last Name
If every single person in that society would be willing to let that part of the population starve, then I don't think it would matter much. They would die. Imagine if there were anti-discrimination laws in Nazi-germany. Hitler would have simply done away with them and the majority of people would have agreed. The majority always rules.
What is your argument then? If we force people to never discriminate, they will loose their prejudices? I don't think that's gonna work.
Arphemius *"If every single person in that society would be willing to let that part of the population starve, then I don't think it would matter much. They would die. "* Nothing I can say could point out how disgusting your beliefs are better than you did here yourself.
Thank you for sharing!
Well said sir.
In the difference between Christianity and Islam is that Islam does it and Christianity talks about it but both religions have that potential. that is why I am an atheist.
They desperately want to save humanity while at the same time advocate for our extinction.
Great video. What are you shooting on now?
+Jared Skye Certainly not gays.
I'm shooting on a Sony FS7 and an A7s with either Zeiss CP2 lenses (FS7) or Rokinons (A7s). The FS7 is my all time favorite camera. And this piece was shot entirely on that.
If there were actual threats of murder, shouldn't the authorities be investigating this? Anyone has evidence that they can use and report?
So much funny!
So much gravitas.
Greatness!
Paris AND Beirut
Hey, Richard Simmons isn't imaginary. That means that he's already more...................long pause...................... All Hail Richard Simmons!
Spot on.
Pastor Kevin Swanson is a terrible human being.
Hell yes! Please, vote. Please, please, please vote.
Churches need a policing department.
That's why I always point out that religious extremists are called "fundamentalists" for a reason. They come back to the *fundamentals* of their religion. It's impossible to follow all of a religious book's commandments to the letter - because some of them are mutually exclusive - but extremists are the ones that follow them as closely as logically possible.
Which makes it irritating to hear that islamists are "not true muslims". In a sense, they _are_, they are even *truer* muslims than moderates. I praise moderates for not following their religious books down to the letter, because they are more valuable as human beings as a result; but come on, stop claiming that extremists are not true followers, and instead start distanciating yourselves from them and the religion they so closely follow.
If a book says "kill the infidels", then stop taking pride in saying that you are true followers of that book and that the ones who do kill the infidels are not; _get rid of the book_, or at the very least, rewrite it, minus the murder-mongering part.
+Ysgramornorris You see here is the real problem, the book, in this case the Q'uran doesn´t say "Kill the infidels", it merely says "kill the apostates" which was a political necessity in the early times as nothing makes a religion look weirder for outsiders than people jumping in and out at will. Actually if we believe documents from these times, those who opposed islam used this tactic to difame it, they joined and left and joined and left, until the order "kill all apostates" was added.
Btw: Early christians killed all apostates as well, just like early mormons did, and supposably any other religion did as well.
In another verse it says to kill those who try to seperate you from the "true" belief. Something like "They want you to be infidels, just like they are, so kill them blabla....", which is actually only directed at missionaries trying to teach something else than islam, and of course is as well purely political. Whoever invented islam knew that there is no god, as well as he knew there are other religions trying to pull off the same scam he just did, so attack is the best defense here.
That´s why moderate muslim scholars call those who try to kill all infidels "not true muslims" because they simply do not follow scripture or at least interpret it differently.
Shato Nyruami
There are self-identified muslims murdering apostates nowadays, so what do moderate scholars have to say about them?
"Btw: Early christians killed all apostates as well, just like early mormons did, and supposably any other religion did as well."
... Yep, I wasn't trying to argue otherwise.
Though I would be more specific and say that abrahamic religions are the only ones I know of that make it a point to kill apostates/infidels. I would gladly accept any counterexample.
I cited islamists being called "not true muslims" because they are the ones we hear about the most these days, but I could have made the same point with a christian murdering homosexuals or selling his daughter as a servant/slave and being called "not true christian".
+Ysgramornorris Oh this guy, the christian of course, would be called way worse things than only "not true christian"
Pagans killed infidels/apostates, Romans and Greeks did as well, if you said something wrong about Wotan you also didn´t live very long in pre-medieval european north, so it´s not the behaviour of judeo/christian/islamic sect leaders, it´s a common behaviour of every person gaining their personal wealth from scamming the masses into believing in a god he just pulled out of his arse. It´s strictly business and if you allow others to milk your cows there would be less milk for you.
Good golly! That was unbelievably GREAT!!
These people would have us become the horrible dictatorship we saw in the Handmaid's Tale. They are so scary to me.
Great video!
I love your passion
Thank you, again.
I thought you were going to talk about the people who left the Mormon Church this weekend.
The Bible justifies injustice.
+Veronica Drantz - misuse and abuse of Scripture is used to attempt justification of injustice.
+Ian Alan - In what way is the scripture in question being misused or abused in this instance? The directive here seems pretty clear to me.
+Ian Alan - I think the 'Scripture' is being used exactly as was intended. The Bible promotes misogyny and condones slavery.
Mr. Deity, I completely agree that we have to get rid of all these Iron Age superstitions, as well as the ones made up more recently, but I don't agree with banning or burning religious texts. All we need to do is teach people how ridiculous these texts are, and how superstition and dogmatic belief have hurt humanity throughout the ages, and still do.
+First Name Last Name Oh, and by the way: GREAT VIDEO!
The Silmarillion by JRR Tolkien would be a way better scripture than the bible or quaran.
+Dorothyellen w I keep seeing it and wanting to read it, but I worry that it won't be good. I guess I live with that fear for every book lol, but it somehow feels different when it is an author with another extremely successful book or series. I always worry that they put everything they had into the book they are most famous for lol.
I think this would be good time to say something about Voldemort, and a pretty bad time to avoid saying something about Isla... whoops, I mean Voldemort.
The Sabbath is the only day I have open to gather sticks, what am I suppose to do?
+Frank Kelley Become a muslim?
+Frank Kelley An atheist can gather sticks whenever s/he pleases. So the simple answer to your question is,"Become an atheist. We harm no-one, and definitely do not eat children. Not whole or raw, anyway".
+Frank Kelley why can't you gather sticks on the Sabbath? are you a professional stick gatherer by trade? if so, why do you only work on Sundays? lol
*****
no it isn't.. Jesus refuted that teaching of the pharisees quite handily. What you are referring to is Pharisaical teaching not Christs. There are some great books that can help you understand it if you would like.
well done sir
Have to say, Brian, the only weakness in this video is that you didn't actually show clips of that conference. I watched the Rachael Maddow piece which showed portions of it, and those excerpts spoke volumes.
Just a thought.
+Troubleshooter125 I linked to her take down of this event in the description.
misterdeity
[nod] Saw it and watched it - on an empty stomach, thankfully. I just thought having a bit of that would have taken an already strong video and made its point utterly unmistakable.
My $0.02 worth.
Ha, good luck getting Repubs on board. "Sky daddy told me to vote for the candidate that screams Jebus the loudest" is the reason we're in this mess
I've coined a new phrase: "Turd Picker". Pastor Swanson is a Turd Picker because whilst he is quite happy with Lev 20:13, I bet he would have a problem with giving everything he owns to the poor as required by a literal interpretation of Matt 19:21 etc etc.
So whilst I think it's a great video and wholeheartedly support it's message in other ways I don't agree that Swanson is being honest, and I don't like the way you railed against Cherry Pickers.
I like Cherry Pickers! Since the Bible has contradictory passages I don't think it's possible to take it literally so Christians, whether they realise it or not are always in one or other of the two categories "Cherry Picker" or "Turd Picker".
FSM knows there are enough Turds! But pointing them out to Cherry Pickers will not turn every Cherry Picker into and Atheist. It might however turn some of them into Turd Pickers. So embrace the Cherry Pickers for they shall inherit the kingdom of heaven (well, don't tell them they wont!).
If you come across a Cherry Picker who has picked up a Turd, like someone who is otherwise a great person but refuses to support Same Sex Marriage on biblical grounds, by all means point out that this is a Turd and they should put it down to make space in their brain for more Cherries. My favorite tactic is to tell them that it is my belief that if Christ did return tomorrow (unlikely as that might be) his *first* act would be to bless a Same Sex Marriage to show his support. And, yes, that's Cherry Picking, but I have found it to be effective because it appeals to Cherry Pickers. I've actually found it makes some Turd Pickers stop and think too!
In summary: The world will not turn Atheist overnight. But it would be a better place with fewer Turd Pickers and more Cherry Pickers. Lets focus therefor on the Turd Pickers and only challenge the Cherry Pickers when they pick Turds.
greg b Thanks!
+K Tell
I love this!!!
***** thanks :)
+K Tell
I'm going to be using those phrases, they make a great and clear distinction. And you are right, I do prefer cherry pickers to the turd pickers too, and it is the turd pickers causing all the real conflict.
Paul Drewett Cool. Maybe in a year or so I'll be able to point to "turd pickers" in a while and say "that's my meme"! :)
Shit, dude, y u almost gon make me cry...
I'm a fundamentalistic follower of a Hitchikers Guide to the Galaxy!!!
Got a link to these people rationalizing the execution of homosexuals?
+Affable Vagrant Check the info box under the video.
FUCK YEAH!!!!!!
hidden behind the new testament was the best line
Those determined to invent God(s), do the world a favor and have your god say, "1. Do not judge what you may not understand; for the fact that you do not understand disqualifies you from casting judgment. 2. Be kind, it's that simple."
That said, why should any god be required for us to identify the worth and value of what is, by any reasonable standard, self-evident?
Well said that man.
Nailed it.
Ah, but the ppl who advocate such policies don't actually know anyone who is gay. That's why they can be so callous about it. It's why politicians can be against gay marriage until they find out their own son is gay (I think it was an Ohio Republican Representative). The ones I can't understand is the ppl who know someone and upon learning they're gay, immediately hate/abuse them (I'm thinking specifically of family members regarding abuse, although verbal abuse is often hurled at non-family members).
+Tensai55 *"don't actually know anyone who is gay."*
They do, but they don't know those people _are_ gay, because of the social stigma. Eating shellfish is just as bad in christianity, but it doesn't have the same stigma, so it's fine to meet your buds at the Red Lobster after church.
First Name Last Name
And that's why attitudes towards gay rights started changing after there was a concerted effort to come out - including among Christians who just years prior were against gay rights. But we all know how Christians love to thump the Bible when it concerns other ppl, when it's about them? Nope, it's totally okay! Nothing to see here!
***** Yup, it's as the old christian adage says:
"Incest and inbreeding, let's keep it inside the family."
***** I said nothing about caring.
***** Neither did I assert that.
The bakery thing is ridiculous. The gov't should not be able to force any privately owned company to perform any non-mortal services for anyone for any reason.
+Tom Riddle Does this mean you don't like anti-discrimination laws that protect other minorities?
+Tom Riddle Agreed. Someone who refuses a service to gays should just be scorned and boycotted - not forced to do anything. But.... overall the whole advocating mass-murder thing outweighs this by a lot.
+MindLaboratory No they should be fined because they broke their business licence where they signed on the dotted line saying they would serve everyone. Like a Mennonite should not apply to drive a bus these people should not take a job selling to the public if they believe in their spin so strongly. Ensuring their faith based bigotry is protected is not the states job, they need to suck it up and ignore this dogma or find new work. It is no ones responsibility to accommodate whatever nonsense they buy into and they have no right to have the state support bigotry, we know how what happens when bigots are given free reign.
misterdeity I want to start off by stating clearly that I have nothing against the minorities themselves.
Allow me to explain my thinking.
I fall more on the capitalistic side of economics, so I think that bigots should have a right to refuse service to anyone for any reason they want. They will, hopefully, receive so much bad press because of this bigotry that they will either have to cave in and cease the discrimination or go out of business.
I do think, however, that any privately owned company that receives governmental support- be it bailouts or subsidies, what have you- should be held to a standard of serving everyone; they are acting, at that point, as a branch of government and not as a private organization.
Love your content, btw. I wish you uploaded far more frequently.
+Tom Riddle Well, this is exactly my problem with people who fall more on the capitalistic side of economics. What you're saying is that you'll allow injustice and discrimination because Capitalism and Freedom!!!! But what if society is majority racist or homophobe? Those businesses won't go out of business. They'll thrive! That's a fairy tale that Libertarians and Capitalists tell themselves -- it's really no different from religious fairy tales. And the fact is that every business in this country benefits from the taxes we all pay either by using the roads for deliveries, public utilities, or whatever infrastructure they use. That is why EVERYONE should have access to the goods and services produced. And that's completely ignoring the moral argument. I don't think you realize how depressingly awful human beings are when left to themselves. But that's the reality.
Oh no wait; "Swanson" wants to wait until "gays ask God for forgiveness".
No you are dead accurate. I clicked like, all truth.
Ah, just like in Wing Commander III
I dread to think what a religion based on the Hitchhikers Guide might look like. maybe some unholy hybridisation of Pastafarianism and Scientology!
+Jon Thurtell Well, people will mostly Keep Calm
+Sin Burner
Agreed... Plus, unlike the bible or qur'an; the Hitchhikers Guide To The Galaxy does not require that people be put to death. ;O)
Katalyzt
Perfectly said/done Brian. ᵔᴥᵔ ★★★★★
Katalyzt
I see that 10 people thumbed down this vid at the time of this post. I guess those ten must be Pastor Swanson's boytoys.
Well thought out argument dude
Here's another book to recommend: Stranger in a Strange Land....You grok?
Douglas Adams is the path to The Truth...
+craig youngman which version of Douglas Adams are you talking about The Books, The BBC Radio series, the BBC T.V. series, or the movie? wow Douglas Adams has been gone for less then 15 years now, and already we can have a nice 4 way holy war over his books (he must be soinning in his grave for what I am saying) but why not have a nice little holy war over the proper form for Douglas Adams. I can just see it now those who prefer the old BBC series raid and behead those who prefer the movie.... then we can watch as those who prefer the movie retaliate by burning at the stake all those who prefer the books as heritics. As though prefer the radio play will attack the those filthy heritics who prefer the movie and behead, burn them, if you want to know how this turns out, just examine the history of the "holy" bible.
😂 An excellent point. And I did notice a bit of violence in the Bible, now that you mention it...
+craig youngman a bit.....ha, understatement
Just a multi-generations-long campaign of mass murder and genocide... not so bad...
And several months later we have Trump as the GOP candidate...
Trump is your president.
❤️🧡💛💚💙💜
Another great video chock full of wisdom. Common sense really; it shouldn't take wisdom to see how wrong the lessons in the bible are. It takes only the willingness to know what it actually says and the open-mindedness to accept how evil it really is.
Wait... did you start this video with a trigger warning? o.O
very good very good
I fight for the gay community and for the people Who's been bullied by religion and anyone I mean Anyone who has been rediculed bullied and or just down right hurt about what people do or say to them remember this They are mere people and You are unique we are all In need of love. WE NEED TO STOP FIGHTING and put LOVE ABOVE all else I was once a hater and hated everyone that hurt me and or hated the way I am. Now since I've opened my eyes I see differently and Now love even the one that hurt me we should walk in peace and love. I LOVE YOU ALL MY sweeties keep on keeping in love and fight for peace and harmony I'm tearing up right now cause You all never went through what I went through and now I wish Love and peace upon all. Even the people that don't believe in God well I say Peace be with you and may you find the love like I have in your own heart. People tend to throw away God cause they find no proof and or reason to believe in a monster or a fairy tale I tell you He is real and he does care about you all he gave the free will to you all to either reject him and or accept him the fact humans Can be the smartest people on earth and try to disprove god Its the faith I have to keep on keeping on It helps me and it made me a better loving person. DON'T BLAME GOD FOR the bad things in life Blame Life it happens to be difficult and or easy my sweeties. My life has been really bad but I no longer blame God he sees me life and know I can make it work. I REMEMBER one thing Is that If my life was really bad I look to my hero Jesus and look at his life that ultimately killed him for being who he was and then look back at my life I see that my life isnt that bad after all. We all Need love and we all need to Be loved So you are loved by me and Loved by someone else don't give up you are beautiful all stop the fighting and stop the hate and love one another.Philo A good Jewish Philosopher that lived in Jesus time line 20 BC - AD 40 If the prohibitions of the Levitical Holiness Code informed its meaning, arsenos koiten condemns shrine prostitution, based on the context of Lev 18 & 20. Philo lived at the same time Jesus lived. During the life of Christ, Philo understood Moses, in Leviticus 18:22 and 20:13, to be condemning shrine prostitution. Philo's understanding that the arseno-koit stem refers to shrine prostitution is 2000 years old. It is not a modern argument from gays and lesbians. Instead, it is the common first century Jewish viewpoint. Gays did not invent this viewpoint and because it did not originate with gays, it is not historical revisionism by gays seeking an alibi for our sin. If the arsenokoit stem from Leviticus 20:13, arsenos koiten, gave us the Greek word Paul used in 1 Cor 6:9 (most anti-gay Christians believe Paul borrowed the word from the Septuagint translation of Lev 18:22 and 20:13), then under-standing arsenokoites as a reference to shrine prostitution was the common first century view when Paul used the word in 1 Cor 6:9 and 1 Tim 1:10 Romans 1. Because the NIV did such a lousy job and mistranslated the Greek word, arsenokoitai, many people concluded that homosexuals will not inherit the kingdom of God.
If the NIV translators had bothered to study instead of just going by what the Greek lexicons say, the gay community could have avoided a lot of pain and heartache.
Arsenokoitai has never been a reference to a lesbian couple or a gay male couple. Instead, in the first century, arsenokoitai referred to shrine prostitution or rape or having sex with angels. That is the behavior Paul described when he used the Greek word, (arsenokoitai shrine temple prostitution )which were from both genders when Pauls teaching was expressing woman left natural order was in refference to (arsenokoitai Shrine prostitution) heterosexual took part in it too not just gays. Bible had errors mere men and writters of said Bible wether John Wycliffe or King James said on terms of a dressing homosexual it was thier OPINIONS MERE MEN'S OPINIONS today's bible derived from John Wycliffe and King James Also Did you know they had REMOVED GODS NAME 7000 TIMES in the bible replacing it with titles such as God, Lord and King these were the many errors found in the bibles today. I am not a Christian I don't want to fall in a religion that Hurts and mentally scars someone. I AM IN A RELATIONSHIP WITH YEHSUA Jesus christ and I love him more then any of you would imagine I give praise to my God mostly every night with my piano playing. Being bullied by some christians that think gays wrong empowered me to be strong and loving even more. I LIVE BY THE FRUITS OF THE SPIRIT Which is LOVE, Joy Peace and longsuffering. My longsuffering is being scared of who I am cause on thoughts I might get beat up or murdered just for me loving someone. Sodom and gamora burned down Cause of the people of the cities on these crime against God. Rape, Lust, Idolatry, worshipping other gods shrine Prostitution and they were over Fed did not care for the needy They stole they commited adultery here's a literal term in the scriptures I am posting here.......Behold, this was the guilt of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had pride, excess of food, and prosperous ease, but did not aid the poor and needy.
Ezekiel 16:49 No mention of gays in it. So I THINK take it with a pinch of salt. I am following Christ not no mere men that tell me to change who I am. I'm gonna follow the ten commandments and love Everyone even the ones that oppose me And or don't like me. I love my Yehshua No matter who says I'm wrong about everything it's my opinions. I'm sure The writers of the books in the bible had THIER OWN Opinions and thought of what they thought was right too doesn't mean it was of god. That's where it stops me If it was inspired by God why would he have put A women who was raped shall be married to her rapist. I think that was the writers Opinion and not of God. As a painter would paint scenes around him one would paint those scenes. As a poet See's Life and death around him one would write it down. I am inspired to follow Jesus and trust him he has my tomorrow and he is my savior. God Yehweh and Yehshua is my love and I shall love all and respect all. Sorry for the long rambling but love you all and love you too. God bless all of you and bless the ones that oppose of the message I'm using the heart I have to help the needy and Love above all else.
+Michael “Magic Lion” Mullen Love is the other side of the answer, it can only come about if you a, fight. b, educate. If these loud mouth haters have a platform, there must be as load a platform shouting them down. Give them an inch (pun intended) and They will just use it to be loader. Lets not kid ourselves here, this is a war, for the future, either we back down and return to the dark ages, or we fight. Its real, love is only a possible future, we have to stand up for it.
+Mark Fudge I agree we stand for Love
Jindal just dropped out.
+nacoran Bobby was just born?
+Pondart Inc Or born again.
+Pondart Inc Sometimes he acts like it.
+Google stop it There should be a rule that you can't run for another 35 years after you are born again.
I appreciate your passion, my friend, but you let it carry you just a tad over the line. The reason this kind of offensive, heinous speech is still legal is that we have freedom of speech. I don't think you want to live in a world where thoughts become illegal any more than I do.
Other than that, I agree completely with this video. Keep up the good work. Love you.
(See how I reproved betimes with sharpness there?)
+Craig Good
He doesn't argue that they should be arrested for saying these things, so freedom of speech isn't even relevant!
dissentofawoman.wordpress.com/2012/07/19/top-10-things-freedom-of-speech-is-not/
Secondly, he could probably even argue that they should be arrested! take a look at number five, six and nine. The words of the speakers, and applause from the audience, could very much be taken as a threat of violence.
+Craig Good But surely calling for mass murder should be illegal, I'm pretty sure calling for violence is already legal in America.
+Craig Good Well, actually I do live in a country where it is illegal to publically demand a crime. Just for your information in almost every civilized coutry in this world such an action is prohibited by law. I cite the law for you:
§ 111
Public demand of a crime
(1) Who publically, in a meeting or by distribution of scripture, request any unlawful activity, will be punished like an instigator.(§ 26)
If nobody follows your demand the punishment is up to 5 years of jail, if someone follows it, you will be punished according to the crime that has been performed, in the case of murder it´s a life sentence.
You know, we who live in the civilzed world do value human rights way higher than the right of the individual to spill his hatred. Maybe you should learn from countries with crime rates way lower than yours.
This is one where I'm not a purest. I think calling for a group of people to be exterminated (especially in the name of God) should probably not be covered under the first amendment. If we don't allow threats to our President, I think I can live with that kind of restriction without feeling like anyone's right to free expression has been monstrously curtailed.
+misterdeity The last thing I would want is for these people to think this shit and not say it due to fear of punishment. Let them run their mouths and spew all this barbaric ancient crap so that the world can see them for what they are. You know what they say about sunlight and its disinfectant properties. Btw, for shits and giggles, we should all take up a collection to put a PI on this Swanson dude. Anybody wanna guess what we'd find?
HITCHHIKER'S GUIDE REFERENCE!!! YAY!!!
Wow. You made an impressive amount of allegations about what was being said at this conference and yet you supplied not one shred or clip of evidence. Forgive me if i don't believe what you're saying.
+Dinosaur2508 Here you go: /watch?v=LgZU6pGKgRk
You know what time it took to find this clip? A little bit less time than you took writing your ignorant comment.
@knoxbird1 bring better then them isn't the point, riding the world of unneeded populous is the point
+Shmannel - Suicide is better than murder. That's what a little fairy told me. Yep.
Two thumbs up
Now wait a minute....do you mean to say that murdering gays is NOT something to be aspired to? Wow! I think I may owe some apologies....My bad. : )
Richard Simmons akbar!
I don't agree with homosexuality or the gay community, but I also don't care how another person gets their rocks off. I do, however, adamantly disagree against government to have the entertaining the thought to support heinous acts against other human beings based on whatever the political climate of the day is.
+Andrew Casey homosexuality is not a proposition you can agree or disagree with. Saying "I don't agree" makes no semantic sense. What you mean is "I hate the gay community".
+Andrew Casey What do you even mean by "I don't agree with homosexuality"?
Adrian A distinction without a difference.
Adrian was more or less correct, I for one, have some problems toward what we would call, "Gay Culture", additionally, i find most gay men generally disagreeable, i.e we don't get along. Lastly, I don't believe in the concept of sexual preference, I think that is not a natural concept but a societal construct that became attached to human sexuality. Therefore, no one is actually gay or straight in any strict, concrete definition, but simply sexually attracted to whatever is floating there boat at the time. How a person would think about a foot fetish is how I think about homosexuality.
Andrew Casey I stand correct.
I don't think the bakery was in the wrong. They were a private business with the right to refuse service, and it was absolutely an attack on their religion for them to be made pariahs and for their gofundme page to be shut down. That being said, that county clerk was responsible for enacting civil marriages, not religious ones, and she should have followed the law or quit her tax-funded job.
I think lumping the bakers into the same group as the clerk goes against the whole principle of freedom of religion. The gay couple could have simply gone to another bakery. I think that if you believe the bakers did anything wrong, then you are against the same liberty that me and many others to be atheists.
+Butt Franklin It is the same set of rules that ended whites only restaurants. It was not an attack on religion but but it was an attack on state backed bigotry. Your spin is akin to the defense of racists because they should have a right to say who comes in their restaurant, the black people should just go somewhere else. It seems an untenable argument to me but then I do not value bigotry as a right. I value religious liberty for all, I do not value their right to limit the rights of others because of it.
Their freedom of religion is competently intact, they are still free to be an overt bigot against anyone. That the law does not allow you to push those views into the sphere of public commerce only makes sense as it would make specific minority groups into second class citizens just like they used to be.
Like a Mennonite should not apply to drive a bus these people should not open a store that sells to the general public because their faith prevents them from doing the job, it is their choice. They are totally free to believe what ever they want . Be they a bigot or someone who thinks their god hates gay people their right to be an assholes is completely intact. What they are are not free to do is limit the rights of others based on that spin. If they do not want to sell cakes to gay weddings then do not sell cakes and no one will force them to. Like a Mennonite bus driver would have to they need to find different work or suspend the aspect of their faith that limits them from doing the job.
Our freedom to be atheists does not step on the rights of anyone else or limit their options. It is based on the exact same form of religious freedom that even the most gay hating Christians or devout Mennonites enjoy. I do not extend them the right to limit the options of others and if their faith steps on a job then the job or faith should go and no one else should have to pay for it. I can not and should not be able to limit commerce from anyone because of their religion, race or sexual persuasion even if we disagree and so it is with Christians too, these rules are evenly applied.
It's their store, how can you say they must be forced to sell to the all-inclusive public when the right to refuse service exists? You as a consumer obviously have no legal right to shop at every store.
Also explain to me how they still have freedom of religion if any related venture they create will now be shot down? Do you honestly believe they were limiting anyone's options? Do you honestly think the next bakery wouldn't jump at the chance to make the same cake with a gay-friendly discount for their story? Atheism doesn't limit a persons options, but atheists sure limited those Christian's options for doing business.
Butt Franklin They do have to, that is what they agreed to when they singed their business license. The right to refuse service is for very specific things not attached to race, religion or sexual persuasion. Dress code, cleanliness, intoxication etc are all reasonable restrictions that are accommodated. They are also temporary and can be changed by putting on a t-shirt, taking a shower or sleeping it off. As a consumer I have a legal right to shop in any store where I can afford the merchandise. No store with a business license can refuse my service based on an non publicly stated business policy.
The have freedom of religion it is their faith that limits their options. Plenty of christens disagree with gay marriage but would still sell the cake. They are not attending the wedding they are selling the product they make. That these people feel so strongly about this means they should not have signed their business license like a Mennonite should not complain he is not getting hired by the bus company. This is their problem and if they feel this strongly then the need to find other work that does not compromise their morals. The issue is on each individuals back and no one else as it should be.
This has nothing to do with atheism. A large number of christens agree that these people should not have bigotry enshrined as a right. It would be a slippery slope, how long until we had gay free markets, gay free hospitals in out of the way places. What possible value do we get from people having the right to pick and choose who can get service based on their personal hunch. Your spin opens the door for whites only restaurants and limited options for any minority. This would not happen in all places but even one area like this would do nothing but divide us further. I look at what laws like this have done for integration and see it as the way forward.
"Your spin opens the door for whites only restaurants and limited options for any minority." This implies that only whites would ever be discriminatory in any way, which recent events at certain colleges have shown is completely false. And what's wrong with a white, black, gay-only restaurant? If someone wants to cut their clientele and lose money for what they believe in, why shouldn't they have that right?
Consider Hobby Lobby. They largely had the same argument as the bakery, but the difference is that HL didn't need crowdfunding. Closely-held companies can work around their beliefs now.
Gay-free markets: So? Go to a gay-friendly one. It's not like Wal-Mart can do this and cut off food for a whole area.
Gay-free hospitals: Don't slippery slope this, man. Hospitals already don't follow the same laws as stores, no reason that needs to change.
+Butt Franklin jim crow died a long time ago. that era is done and the bakers chose to break anti discrimination laws along with doc dropping on the gay couple was illegal.
You know I kind of expected a lot more "thumbs down" on this particular video. Certainly the god freaks share your videos with a comment along the lines of "check out this guy who is going to hell" I suspect the gay hatred is not as widely embraced as the news and the vocal minority would have me believe.
+North Carolina
I assure you, xians hate gays plenty. Looking at the votes for a single video to form your opinion is foolish. People watch videos that appeal to them, and gay or pro-gay videos don't appeal to the average xian, so they're not going to watch this.