How about all Christians return to Orthodoxy (Eastern Orthodox religion) how it was meant to be from the beginning instead of continuing on the skewed, woke misleading paths that go nowhere. I pray that all the other Christians find the light I have found within Orthodoxy. Many things have changed over the years and many changes will come but not Orthodox Christianity this will always remain true to itself and its followers
Orthodox Christian here… just disclosure lol…. We are all brothers and sisters… anywho… I loved Jordan’s message, but, yes, your response was absolutely classy and on point. Well done. No matter what church Door May be darkened by Jordan’s shadow, May it be soon. I pray he hears your message.
We are saved by our faith and Good works. Protestants are ignorant of this. It’s not all Kumbiya and sunshine and rainbows. We can’t all get along, EO also should come to communion with Rome as their church is heavily corrupted and plagued with nationalist self interest.
Don't count on others to do,,, Do yourself, lead. The church can be in our mind, when working/ relaxing. It can be all over. My church/ religion is not condemned to a building.
@@Dr.YehudaBenNachmanFriedburg that’s quite a conclusion you’re arriving at. I couldn’t disagree with you more. Just the same, God bless you Dr, may the Lord be gracious to you and help you to extend grace to others.
New subscriber. Wonderful message and amen to that! Always seems to me like JP is standing by "heaven's gate" on the outside pointing to the people to go in but he himself doesn't want to get in due to pride... I pray that one day soon he'll see the need for him to enter and be part of the family. Thank you Pastor Miles.
Milly, thanks for subscribing. And for your comment. As Jesus said to his wise inquisitor in Mark 12, I think it could be said to Dr. Peterson, "You are not far from the kingdom of God."
Amen amen Miles. Many of us 60somethings and older have been discussing these very issues for years. More than that, we are actively encouraging young parents to bring their children to church. Keep encouraging Jordan to step out in faith.
Peterson has a valid point. Churches have gotten so far away from the Bible. Money and sex scandals has corrupted many, many of the churches. Miles seems like he is a steady and well grounded pastor, maybe he can speak out to other churches and get them in line
Hello Pastor Miles ... I have always loved and respected you and your messages. This is yet one more reason for me to do so. Straight and to the point ... you nailed it. Thx! God is Great and worthy of all Praise. THX!
I just posted a video about this topic- why Protestants don’t care about Jordan Peterson as much as other religions. I really like a lot of what Jordan says and appreciate everything he does, but I feel like he misses the mark when it comes to the actual Gospel. I pray that he finds Christ! Not just the literary representation, but the real heart of Christ.
Wow I am not a Protestant I deeply admire Jordan Peterson But this has to be among the strongest apologies for Protestant integrity I have seen a while. Thank you , Pastor Miles
Thank you for your response to Dr. Peterson. You comments in the end however, open another can of worms. I have attended and been a member of protestant churches all my life. I'm sic k of their pandering. It's easy to say "go to church because they aren't all that way" but you have one chance a week to guess right and to be honest, the odds aren't in your favor. I've sat in my car in the parking lot of church and spent valuable time with God. When it was time to go in I felt as if I needed to say, "Well God, I hate to break this up but I have to go to church now." It shouldn't be that way but many times it is. We've been hunting a church for about two years now and may have found the church we can call home. It's not easy. I hope you are as patient with the people who are wandering around looking for a church that they can trust as you are with the idea of "darkening the door on a Sunday".
I watched his challenge with interest. And I believe he does have a legitimate claim to attention. But I think he would benefit from a conversation with someone like NT Wright. He doesn't quite understand what the church actually is. To him the church is a social institution. And that's true. But it's only partly so and needs to be seen in the context of her identity and mission. In the end churches who would listen to his exhortation are already doing what he demands and those who aren't won't listen. He's preaching to the choir. I expect he's going to be disappointed and frustrated by the response.
Whenever I see a video about JP I instantly think Matthew 7:3, and Matthew 5:43-48, because his videos never seem to even have a scrap these verses in them
Elijah.... He was a Jewish man . How about forget theology forget all the rhetoric and apologetic bs and consider the words of a believer and mighty man of God I'm talking about the Apostle Paul. His revelation was not a recall to being Jewish like my people. Paul received the great revelation of Coll 1:27. 2 Tim 2:15 This is what gets people going on the path of a believer. You people rarly stray from the old testament where the power of pentecost is spoken of and lives. People have little to no faith so no miracles no healing no manifestations of the Spirit .... Just apologetics and rhetoric. You did not 3ven mention God's Word in your speech here pastor... Time to think about that brother 🙏💞
I greatly enjoy listening to Peterson. But this is exactly what a lot of Christian’s have been thinking and saying to themselves and in private. Thank you for saying it out loud. Peterson, I hope and pray that you find a good, inviting and biblical church to attend on a regular basis. That you find yourself participating in a local community that you find so valuable.
*The children's Sunday school classrooms haven't seen a child in a decade or more.* It is the same in Britain. The animus directed at Jordan Peterson is a measure of how much postmodernism has triumphed. Cultural Marxism or progressive nihilism ?
While Catholicism brought Europe out of the Dark ages and all the good that came with it. Unfortunately, the church as an institution is human made and will thereby always be corruptible. Protestantism brought literacy on a national level in my country Denmark. It has played an integral part on why we’re doing so well today. The leap in our development happened after the reformation. Letting go, is the biggest message of love. A church should not gatekeep between you, the commen good and god. The Protestant church understands this. The church is there as a guidance and community, if you need it and choose it.
Why all protestants are angry and emotional to respond JP message? Protest and protest are enough!! Do appreciate his psychology approach to read the scripture and more philosophy!!
I have been listening to JP quite a bit over the last three or four months. I freely admit that I do not understand much of what he says. I myself and a bit of an oxymoron in that I am a conservative and a member of the DOC church. For me the idea of the founders of the DOC was great but has been taken over by FAR left liberalism. (Good theory but doesn’t work in practice) my antidotal evidence is that many if not most Protestant churches (but certainly DOC) have tried their best to conform to the world rather than conform the world. It may have started with “techniques” to try to appeal to the modern world but many if not most have succumbed to the modern world. I am a proponent of “if you want to complain about the problem, bring a solution” guy. But I freely admit I do not know the solution. As I read the Bible I am constantly amazed thinking “that chapter could have been written yesterday about what is happening today.” So I think the answers to our modern world problems are still in the Bible. But I do not know how we are going to turn our modern world back to Christ.
Great summary of the current condition of Christian churches, but I had to go back and watch Jordan Peterson's video to be able to tell if you were agreeing with him or not.
I’m glad Pastor Miles was so respectful in his response and can appreciate his position, but as a middle aged white woman who has been a Christian- and in church- pretty much my whole life,I think Mr. Pederson has some wisdom that is beneficial to all of us, as we live in a world where we are literally constantly bombarded by “anti-truths”, and I believe if our pastors and Christian leaders will not stand up and loudly and consistently counter these lies, God will use someone who will. Even if your church isn’t one who seems to be guilty of most of the charges Mr. Pederson made, it is likely some worldly influence has seeped in regarding some of these issues that is manifested in practical ways. If not, praise God, but I would think you could recognize the general need for such an admonition in the church today and be glad for it. Also, unless you regularly engage your church in such anti anti-truth teaching, you undoubtedly have church members who struggle with their understanding of these issues in light of their immersion in the world that pushes the anti-truth so forcefully. I don’t know how Mr. Pederson has developed such a keen understanding and the drive to get his message out, but I think you would have to admit that he does have great insight and his message is a good one. I’m not suggesting critiquing is wrong by any means, but I just wonder if his position as an outsider puts church leaders such as yourself off to where you fail to recognize the truth of what he is saying and try to fight him rather than see and embrace the message.
You make good points but I would encourage you to listen to DCCI Ministries’ response as well - trying to remember Hatun’s guest’s name as he did a great job at addressing Dr Peterson’s message.
Thanks. I will look into that. I (I guess pretty obviously since I had the wrong spelling) don’t follow J. Peterson in any way, but I think that is to my advantage, since I could listen to the message without bias from what other positions he may or may not take on other issues.
Brilliant! Thanks Miles. The idea of going out with the gospel is something that is much maligned in the churches. You are so unusual. I live in Europe and here a church like yours may well exist but I have no idea where. Europe is the dark continent of the age. The churches are in hiding and the gospel has been largely kept hidden. The result is societies going into meltdown. Truth is lost in a sea of radical, absolute, fundamental relativism. Jesus bless you.
Jordan Peterson indeed is addressing some very serious issues that are obviously more prevalent in the mainstream churches. What needs to happen is that he needs to be born again from above and he will then have a better impact on the world.
This was spectacular! Precisely the type of messaging and responding that does justice to Peterosn while providing alternative perspectives he might've not considered yet.
Well done, Sir 👏👏👏 finally time for the churches to speak up boldly and start addressing the community again, whether you agree with everything Dr Peterson said, look, he's got people talking and connecting on the right subject matter, and I think that was the point 😁
At last, a pastor with fortitude. Pastor Miles stands nearly alone to defend the truth and shed light on the darkness in the midst of the church's adulation for Jordan B. Peterson, a Gnostic Pagan. I salute you, sir! “A Jungian Gnosticism that is essentially Pelagian at key points.” Peterson's interpretation of Christianity is "weird" in several aspects. In other respects, what distinguishes Peterson's theology from mine is its lack of "strangeness." In the end, by human standards, historic Christianity is atypical. We affirm our faith in an invisible, all-powerful, and all-loving God despite the prevalence of evil in the world. We acknowledge the inspiration of the Bible despite its many peculiarities. We believe in the Trinity and in a completely human and fully divine Christ. Thus, the majority of heresies may be seen as efforts to reconcile the strangeness of the religion with whatever kind of human "reason" is now in vogue. While I retract my use of the term "weird," I stand by my description of "Jungian Gnosticism" with a dash of Pelagius. Now, to define these terms, “JUNGIAN GNOSTICISM” Unlike his mentor Freud, who rejected all religion as an "illusion" based on "wish-fulfillment," his mentor Jung saw religion as a "realm of truth." Karl Jung considered the usefulness of religious "myths" and archetypes seriously. Likewise, Peterson A crucial aspect of both Jung's and Peterson's works, however, is the speed with which they separate biblical material from history and homogenize it with all other pagan tales. Thus, when Peterson discusses Genesis (or Jesus in 1 John), he concludes that the Babylonian Enuma Elish gives us essentially the same thing in a more engaging manner. The Babylonian account is far more Quentin Tarantino. Peterson compares Marduk to God, who creates amazing things from chaos. Since every first-year OT student is taught the parallels between the Enuma Elish and Genesis, the connection has some merit. (While simultaneously learning about the enormous contrasts! ) The issue, though, is that neither Peterson nor Jung needs historical context for their holy texts. They just need the "knowledge" (gnosis) that may be extracted from a psychoanalytic decoding of them. In both Peterson's and Gnosticism, "salvation" is achieved not through a flesh-and-blood individual but through the wisdom of an intellectual guru who alone can discern the secret truths of Scripture. As Irenaeus explained long ago (about 180 AD), this is nonsense. Now, the connection to ancient Pelagius “WITH A DASH OF OLD PELAGIUS” Obviously, Peterson's interpretation of Christianity differs significantly from that of Pelagius in the fourth century; thus, I do not want to group them together carelessly. However, there is a similarity in downplaying the importance of divine grace. I must grant that such grace is a pretty unusual thing, yet Christianity cannot exist without it. For Pelagius, Christ's atonement was not necessary for salvation, as all that was needed of mankind was to "man up" and live responsible lives, as the Bible demands. In other words, "Stand up straight with your shoulders back" (Rule 1), "Tell the truth" (Rule 8), and "Set your home in perfect order..." (Rule 6) - all from the 12 Rules for Life. Obviously, none of this is poor counsel. And if this saves even one adolescent from opening fire on a middle school, we will all be thankful. Yet, as Charlie Clark observes, Peterson's whole self-improvement quest is motivated by a type of macho pride and a noticeable lack of "grace," the essential element of Christianity. So what does Peterson recommend you do? You should express yourself like a powerful, alpha lobster: "Stop slouching and hunching about." "Express yourself." Put forward your aspirations as though you were entitled to them, or at least as entitled as others. " When a guy presents himself as a successful lobster and the most gorgeous women compete for his attention, he has won the game of life. Such testosterone-laden preaching may result in visible changes, but it comes at a price. As Clark concludes, "Peterson is, in fact, precisely the character that [C. S.] Lewis describes in Mere Christianity as one of those teachers who appeal to a boy's pride, or, as they call it, his self-respect, to make him behave decently; many a man has conquered cowardice, lust, or ill-humor by learning to consider them beneath his dignity-that is, by Pride. " In the same way that theological and social conservatives have often collaborated with non-Christian political groups to maintain the appearance of a Christian society, they now place their moral education hopes in Peterson, who is at best a decent pagan. This enthusiasm is the result of desperation. To commit his Pelagian mistake, however, is to place our trust in ourselves rather than in Christ. The righteousness preached by Jordan Peterson is self-righteousness, which is not saving. The arrogance it fosters will be spiritually disastrous. The church owes young men superior direction. We need more than “good advice”; we need good news.
The “good news” of the Gospels is that they pertain to New World advances of another newly Universal Civilization like the US today, or Rome and others before, going back to the Paleo-Oriental and Neolithic rise of agriculture and urban life. That is the “historical context”, and overall millenarian and prophetic vision or revelation from which the church has fallen, from once or originally wholly gathered culturally communistic communities directly and principally bridling all in all public life and voice, to what are the mere class associations now of the propertied. Hence, the continual national news of people striking at society precisely because they have no public voice. The FBI negotiators with David Koresh questioned why he needed guns when the established churches didn’t; and then criticized his communal living - the established churches are based upon private property, enforced by the class legislated conventions of standing armies and police who come in to no public hearing with the people at large, but are as the chariots and taskmasters of Egypt.
Jordan Peterson strikes a prophetic note in his comments, no doubt. But as you point out, he would perhaps have more to offer if he were himself a part of the church. I appreciate the invitation you gave him at the end. As my friend Ryan notes in our podcast, perhaps Peterson should “incarnate his own logos” and go to church: ruclips.net/video/hDUZ7JehS5U/видео.html
Amen, an excellent response (good to see you back and well Pastor Miles); it is hard for one who has not committed themselves to the Lord, to critique those from afar as Jordan appears to often do for the last 6 years. Fascinating yes, but is it for the accolade, pride, $$$, attention, notice. I agree w you Pastor Miles - this man, as well as Elon Musk and men like him, are longing to know a Jesus they could know, but don't and only imagine, because they are not willing to take the plunge, the same plunge into being an example, he is calling the church and young men to respond to. Pride often prevents us from doing what is best not only for the one but the many. So easy to be an arm-chair quarterback. If such like these want to be in "the harvest" they can ... but they need to bend the knee to the Lord and not the culture of fame. If these responded to the Lord, truly submitted, and truly knew what they were talking about from a biblical standpoint and not a philosophical one, making them boss and king, then their audience would be even bigger. Good for you Pastor Miles, to stand and defend. When the church quits coming in (as if starved) and goes out in the street (and shares) what it knows, the darkness will dissipate and light will shine.
You, obviously have not been paying attention over the past year+ to Dr. Peterson becoming a believer. When you see the tears in his eyes over his study of the scripture and in this time what he has discerned. What he sees happening around him is tearing him apart. What is happening in the U.S. and abroad, is leader after leader who lay claim to being Christian, but have no fruits of the spirit and their action are so counter to anything that Jesus taught fully sheds light on their true character. And yet, 81 million Americans voted for THIS? None of these people would be in power if true Christians fought the good fight. The devil has them in power all the same. For evil to flourish all that has to happen is for good men to do nothing. You cannot blame any of this on Dr. Peterson who has been fighting the good fight, yet name me one pastor who has taken on this fight at even close to the level of Dr. Peterson? You can't. If Jesus were here right now how many pastors would be thrown out of their "temples" as they have changed them into money changing holes and have no issues with the LGBTQ+ community or the groomers in our schools, or those who support abortion up to and after birth. A good reminder for all of us is what Jesus said: Go and sin no more. Is that asking too much? You can tell what a population is for by what they fight for.
@@jtavegia5845 dear J - obviously I hit a deep nerve chord in you. I did see Dr. Peterson cry. I understand his anguish w what is happening around him and the culture, and many in the culture will feel the same when Tredeau a relative of Castro continues his Communistic regime of tyranny as long as the deep state rich buy and guarantee his and other false leaders. What you don't understand Biden's wife doesn't even follow him, and fewer Americans do as well. Biden/Pelosi are more of the devil as is many in the Catholic cult. 81 million people did not vote for him. They stopped the election (1st time ever) for 6 days) until they could fanagle all the books and catch him up. they did all they could w money and bribes to get the last who would stand for his country Trump out of office by hook, or by crook. In AZ Biden only had 8 people show up to his rally. People streamed the freeways for miles w Trump flags, and every rally of his was 35,000 so tell me sanely, how does such a man who never left his basement win a campaign? By corruption. It isn't that people stood by as you presume. This is the judgment of God now happening. This Great Reset is leading us to what is really the Great Tribulation described in Revelation. I like Jordan Peterson, I like Thomas Sowell, I pray for them. Brilliant minds, and they make a nice shiny penny for 2 cents worth of their opinion, yet as to standing up for God, and behavior that shows they are "born again" - doing things the Bible calls the fruit of the Spirit as evidence of Christ new life within them, well I don't yet see it in these two. The struggle yes. The frustration yes. The tears yes. But tears does not equal true repentance ... yet. God is not finished w him or Elon Musk or others for that matter. Perhaps in due time, if we believers pray for God to intervene mercifully in their lives as he did ours. We are no better J. As for the woke churches in support of the gays and whatever else you call the sleze, sin is sin, and there are many good pastors, yet others who are wolves in sheeps clothing, and that is what you have, those who support such are not Christian or saved, they do the work of their father the evil one who will suffer hell and damnation in the eternal lake of fire. Pastor Miles is one of JP's long-time biggest fans. We are sinners. We are saved by grace. Forgiven. Justified in Christ positionally, yet in our own struggles sanctified, but submitted. I cannot yet say that for those 3 above, they are strong men, and like Sinatra they tend to do things as they see them, their way. thanks for your response. This election and many around the world is being hijacked. It is a communist revolution where they think they win, but in the end, they will know God, the judgment of God, and all will bend the knee to the Almighty and most Powerful God. The Lord Jesus Christ.
So what you have in Dr. Peterson is a person so intelligent that he is trying to "think his way to God", but we all know that cannot be done as it is a matter of the heart. When you watch his video studies on the Bible he gets closer and closer and then he finally gets The Cross, the humility of God, and the love of humanity that it would take to allow the nails in his flesh. At the point when the sins of the world are place on Christ, God has to turn away and Jesus says, "My God, My God, why have you forsaken me?" That instant he felt the separation of God from himself and it had to be too much to take. It takes a lot for us to gain everlasting life, and Christ did that freely for us. I had always hoped Dr. Peterson would get there, but he had to do it on his own. @@servingjesussinnersavedbyg8456
@@jtavegia5845 Amen and pray for him, and people like him. This is why Pastor Miles addresses the need not only to be positionally saved (justified) as Christ does for us, but to abide in Christ, and in that continual (sanctification) we are continually being perfected and saved until one day we are in Him, as He is. Jordan and others great men, great thinkers, teachers, just need to keep in the school of Christ in the church, as there is no Lone Ranger discipleship. Pleasure to have shared w you friend.
Pastor Miles. Most of what you said in this video, I agree with. And certainly I myself do not like the idea of churches teaching woke ideologies. However; just because some churches may be approaching current events in an unbilical manner, doesn't mean that such racial injustices aren't taking place, or that there are no needed changes to our laws, or policies to the police force. These are issues which we as a society need to address, and I don't think the church should ignore them just because some modern "pastors" choose to cater to the world.
This isn’t as much of a response to Jordan as it a criticism of some churches, and a confirmation of other churches. Don’t get me wrong, it IS a response to Jordan, but that’s not honestly its focus. That being said, it’s a solid criticism, and a solid confirmation, albeit somewhat vague. It serves as more of a litmus test than an actual criticism of any specific church. And it offers a good challenge to Jordan and anyone else who catches the message - before you criticize church, attend them. And realize you can’t criticize all churches based on one, or even a few. It would be like attending one specific restaurant, having a bad experience, and then criticizing them all. That wouldn’t make sense. Churches, let’s do better to focus on the things that please God’s heart, loving Him, doing what His word says, and loving our neighbors.
Coming from an old Protestant church I think Peterson is right to call out all churches. Even the ones that find success seem to be in competition rather than lifting up struggling churches. And as far as I know Petersons wife is catholic and he recently went to a mass as well as an Orthodox Church and said he enjoyed it. I think Protestants have been so anti catholic that it has hurt our liturgy, but this rarely comes up in conversation
Yes growing up as a Protestant I noticed that too; for example you learn a lot about inquisitions and burning at the stake but never about theft of church property of throwing monks out of windows. History is complicated.
hey hey hey hey... none of this attacking oat milk latte! were weren't designed to drink cows milk either LOL ... but i digress... Good message! I'm a Calvinist. I think you hit the nail on the head, it is what my response was to Jordan as well and as i overall agreed with his message, as we all did, his promotion of the old guard (orthodoxy and even more Roman catholicism) i cannot agree or understand when churched like Apologia (reformed baptist - Calvinists) are the reason Roe v Wade was even being mentioned in culture... Not the catholics... DEF not them. They were happy to share a sentence in support OCCASIONALLY once the protestants already were in the door... So yes, i think if Jordan wants to take that step in the direction of his messages and 'sermons' he should show up on Sunday. To a protestant church.
Really? 5.33 of 'Thats not me"' pat on the back, and then to end with 'Come to church I dare you.' Rest assured I'll never darken your door and I think that is part of the problem, "darken your door", I myself would rather have someone lighten my door.
good job. i listen a bit to Jordan and his religious guests are Roman Catholics. He does not sseem to know Roman Catholic Idolatry very well. and He said that Egypt's statue of Isis with the Baby like Mary is a worship of motherhood that is in all cultures and rightly so" " God forgive him. Santification is a process !
He did attend several Churches such as orthodox, catholic, and I'm sure he's been to a protestant church. Check his recent video on why you should go to church he uploaded a few hours ago. I almost thought you were going to get somewhere when speaking about Peterson sending a message to the church throughout the past number of years, but you stopped short. His message for years has been pointing out to churches the issue with current preaching which is made up of circular biblical logic. He has pulled from many sources besides just the bible when he lectures. It isn't just straight the bible says this and this is what I think it means. He's pulled from various sources in the western canon and other academic fields besides just theology. He hasn't preached against video games, certain types of music, or other forms of media in pop culture without a valid logical criticism. When did the church lose it's logical edge and when did the hatred against science start. When did creationism become the hill to die on? Don't get me wrong either I despise the left wing bastardization of church thought in various churches that questions patriarchy and whatever other popular left wing talking point, but where is the meeting ground? Where is a jumping on point that doesn't preach this arrogant thought of you don't practice it our way so your lost at?
Obviously it is unwise to make blanket statements about *The Church,* as if all churches are falling short or failing to effectively reach the culture. There are *good* churches and not so good churches. I've heard many messages/sermons which came far short of accurately delivering the message of Scripture in a culturally contextualized and relevant way. But I've also heard a lot of great sermons that pulled from many sources to reinforce the message. I saw JBP's "why should you go to church" message as soon as it dropped. I also had seen the original JBP / Jonathan Pageau conversation from which the segment was cut. I'm currently thinking through Peterson's answer to the Pageau's question. My thoughts will probably come out in the form of another video.
There are many people interested in Jordan's work based on his ability to blend psychology and ancient stories both religious and non... and ofc the emphasis on Jungian works (imo, for some) is paramount. I don't think that sending those young men to some of these churches, especially to some of the more fundamentalist or literalist approaches to religious doctrine will help those types of people much. Some will undoubtedly listen to Jordan's message. They'll decide to go to church, perhaps even expecting to get something from it akin to what Jordan's lectures have to offer, only to realize that there is much incompatibility between the approaches. The church may be able to retain a relatively small amount of those people, as some will decide to stay, but most will move on.
The more successful you are at appealing to, indeed pandering to, the fleeting fashions of the day, the more you lose the timelessness of what you have and the more ridiculous you look when what you are doing inevitably goes out of style.
I like the fact that you had the courage to stand up and ask Peterson to come to church; but the established church is morally fallen to a class institution upon private property, rather than upon the once wholly gathered culturally communistic communities - (or “first love”, in the direct re-establishment of the genders, and their then “first works” of guiding reproduction) - upon which it prophetically and apostolically originated in ethnographic spread in relation to the Lord, of himself, thereby countering Rome and the lie of an otherworldly or supernatural deity.
@@PastorMiles I agree, it was not the best in expression, and I apologize. It was actually more of a poking at the waters to see if they spoke back. I have a long history - over three decades now - of going to the churches, and both, asking, as well as insisting, that they should establish a structure for a direct public forum among the populaces at large. The result being that I was mocked and carried out of several churches in the southeast Dallas area - from the summer of 1989 to the fall of 1992, when I began working in Garland, Texas prior to David Koresh - of whom I prophesied of, through the connection of the Rodney King riots in LA in 1992, to Jesus’ parable of a cloud rising in the west. The foolishness of preaching to our Bible Belt became seen as the wind which blows out of the south, bringing heat. These two aspects I connected further to the fact that John the Baptist set the stage for Jesus. This understanding, linked with the statement in John that John was baptizing in Aenon near to Salim, led me to assert to some, that someone was going to come from Waco or Austin, and make a martial stand in religion, against the Federal Government. On February 28th, 1993, David Koresh opened a door in heaven - heaven being understood as a moral division of history and culture like BC and AD before - over and against Federal agents, and set a throne therein, as well, by his reading of the 45th Psalm touching the king, where my heart in every such people and place is once again inditing a good matter when Christ nails the certain class legislated handwriting of ordinances by the propertied to his cross of God being declared as the whole law in truth of wholly gathered culturally communistic communities like those of Acts 2. There have been many other events since, of course, from 9-11, where lightning has come out of the east and shone even unto the west; to the present Russia/Ukraine War as Russia is the angel of Revelation 20, come down from heaven in such a today newly Universal advance, and having the key of the bottomless pit of nihilism through the false prophet of State Communism it endured, and a great chain in his hand with Alexander Solzhenitsyn’s The Gulag Archipelago. Tyler, Austin, Albuquerque, Oklahoma City, Chicago, Philadelphia, and Los Angeles become the basis of “the mystery” of “the seven churches” - or Ephesus, Smyrna, Pergamos, Thyatira, Sardis, Philadelphia, and Laodicea respectively - in concerns of the “seven stars” and “churches” formed as another newly urban advance in the wilderness of another newly universal Civilization like our own of today, or like Rome and others before in historic succession and stage - and this is the actual prophetic bases of scripture, not some otherworldly deity which those established in the church want to call God, and pretend that they are children unto Abraham.
The difference between Christians and muslim are Christians are open to criticisms and advice. Have you seen the muslim reaction to their message from JP? Its full of "how dare you" 😅
You are absolutely right about that: Man-made books can always be criticized by anyone, but Make-No-Mistake no one is allowed to dare point fingers at the Divine Doctrine of the Creator of Heavens and Earth
If you are tolerant of everything you stand for nothing and we Muslims are not tolerant to the Wrong doings, secondly Jordan Peterson actually was making some grievous mistakes
Dude, you are laying out the problem but refuse to see it. The problem with protestantism is giving each person the ability to interpret scripture as they see fit, you included. That is why we need authority and tradition. If Luther and Calvin were right, why are there 40k protestant denominations? Where do you claim authority from? Which one of you is right. You are starting to see why the Catholic church is and will be the eternal church that Christ founded.
No. Protestantism is saying that the Bible is the final authority, not the pope/church. The aim is understanding, interpreting, and applying the Bible.
@@PastorMiles The Bible is interpreted by people who sometimes get it wrong as we humans are flawed. In the Catholic church we trust our church and its 2000 years of tradition, philosophers , scholars, martyrs, popes, saints,to help us interpret the bible and to keep doctrinal discipline. Additionally, the Bible you use was also compiled by the Catholic church, minus a few books that Luther removed. Who gave him that authority? and if he has it, why cant you do the same and add or remove some more books ? this is why we need authority in the form of apostolic succession and that is why Luther and Calvin were wrong.
There are good churches and there are a lot of churches that don' preach the word or believe the word of God, time to maybe go back to home churches if you are in a church that doesn't teach the word, seemed to work in acts
I don't think it is an either/or situation. It is both and. The earliest church (that is, the Acts 2:42-47 church) functioned as a large corporate gathering AND a "from house to house" gathering. But I would agree ... home groups are essential for living in connection with God and one another, as the church.
Full disclosure, I'm agnostic here. But I ask that you hear me out. Folks are leaving religion for a myriad of reasons. Diagnosed rationalization of this is irrelevant to the actions. The difference between a religious person and a 'none' is as simple as a decision. Some people leave Christian denominations in response to rigid adaptations of Biblical teachings. In contrast, others fall away because they just stopped believing. While others just don't want to go to 'church' anymore.
All of this is known and understood by clergy abroad. From outside the looking glass, I have questions. Is the portrayed/real sadness/worry partly towards the effect on individuals falling away from Christ , or the lack of financial security for the remaining staff and congregation? I am worried that there are people whose only reason for existing is God, so I want Christianity to stick around as a segment of their private lives; however, not as a standard by which others must adhere. Let us not be naïve here. There are apparent overlapping segments under which both groups would be happy. Still, there are a few key segments where we are dialectically opposed, and that delta is where you lose people. In that aggregation, the Church is failing to retain membership over time. That is not to say they no longer believe in God, just that the two of you no longer believe in the same God. Obviously, this is incredibly nuanced, and I don't have skin in the game as I don't confess to knowing God. I want folks to be mentally and physically healthy, and I think Christianity can do that for them. But the reverse can also be true. edit: spacing.
Interesting response. Most Christians seem to have had a similar ability to accept the criticism Idk if you saw his message to the Muslims and their responses, but his message was a blunder and the responses absolutely brutal. I think he doesn't quite understand Islam I wasn't necessarily impressed with Jordan's criticism for Christians as he seems to have missed what I feel is the primary mission announced by Jesus when he began his ministry In the book of Luke chapter 4 Jesus enters the synagogue at Nazareth and reads Isaiah 61. He says "the spirit of yhvh is upon me, because he has anointed me to bring good news to the poor. He has sent me to proclaim release to the captives and recovery of sight to the blind, to let the oppressed go free, to proclaim the year of the Lord’s favor.” I don't think the church has gotten the message either
I was somewhat surprised to see very little response from Christians/Pastors to JBP's message to the church on YT. I was not surprised by the many responses from Muslims to his message for Islam. I agree, I do not think Peterson's understanding of Islam is all that great. But his understanding of Protestantism is also pretty dim... Or perhaps, shallow.
@@PastorMiles this is the one thing I think Peterson does get and I think he is attempting to use people's religious beliefs to angle for it Whether you believe or don't believe in a God, it is self evident that when we lift others up or pull them out of the hole they're in, it is a net benefit to society. He wants for us to recognize our need to find common ground I once saw a live performance of little house on the prairie in okc. Midway through the show the farm was failing due to drought and as the 2 girls sat in their father's field watching the crops die they decided to pray. But they didn't pray for their own crops. Laura decided that it might be kind of selfish. Instead she suggested they pray for the neighbors and rationalized that if God brought rain to the neighbors, some of it was bound to land on their crops as well
@@PastorMiles However he is right in that many in the Church have abandoned our responsibility to actively and intentionally disciple young men after the pattern of Paul and Timothy.
How about all Christians return to Orthodoxy (Eastern Orthodox religion) how it was meant to be from the beginning instead of continuing on the skewed, woke misleading paths that go nowhere. I pray that all the other Christians find the light I have found within Orthodoxy. Many things have changed over the years and many changes will come but not Orthodox Christianity this will always remain true to itself and its followers
Orthodox Christian here… just disclosure lol…. We are all brothers and sisters… anywho… I loved Jordan’s message, but, yes, your response was absolutely classy and on point. Well done. No matter what church Door May be darkened by Jordan’s shadow, May it be soon. I pray he hears your message.
Amen
We are saved by our faith and Good works. Protestants are ignorant of this. It’s not all Kumbiya and sunshine and rainbows. We can’t all get along, EO also should come to communion with Rome as their church is heavily corrupted and plagued with nationalist self interest.
Don't count on others to do,,,
Do yourself, lead. The church can be in our mind, when working/ relaxing.
It can be all over.
My church/ religion is not condemned to a building.
@@Dr.YehudaBenNachmanFriedburg that’s quite a conclusion you’re arriving at. I couldn’t disagree with you more. Just the same, God bless you Dr, may the Lord be gracious to you and help you to extend grace to others.
New subscriber. Wonderful message and amen to that! Always seems to me like JP is standing by "heaven's gate" on the outside pointing to the people to go in but he himself doesn't want to get in due to pride... I pray that one day soon he'll see the need for him to enter and be part of the family. Thank you Pastor Miles.
Milly, thanks for subscribing. And for your comment. As Jesus said to his wise inquisitor in Mark 12, I think it could be said to Dr. Peterson, "You are not far from the kingdom of God."
Amen.
He's probably reaching more Christians by not going to a specific church.
Indeed. He often refrains from taking a position other than radical analysis. I can imagine that that's his intention here.
He doesn’t seem to want to get Protestants on. Bishops and Priests only.
Miles, this is great - that's for thinking through this.
Amen amen Miles. Many of us 60somethings and older have been discussing these very issues for years. More than that, we are actively encouraging young parents to bring their children to church. Keep encouraging Jordan to step out in faith.
Peterson has a valid point. Churches have gotten so far away from the Bible. Money and sex scandals has corrupted many, many of the churches. Miles seems like he is a steady and well grounded pastor, maybe he can speak out to other churches and get them in line
Do you think it is by accident that you only hear of the scandal and not of the charity and souls changed?
Hello Pastor Miles ... I have always loved and respected you and your messages. This is yet one more reason for me to do so. Straight and to the point ... you nailed it. Thx! God is Great and worthy of all Praise. THX!
I just posted a video about this topic- why Protestants don’t care about Jordan Peterson as much as other religions. I really like a lot of what Jordan says and appreciate everything he does, but I feel like he misses the mark when it comes to the actual Gospel. I pray that he finds Christ! Not just the literary representation, but the real heart of Christ.
Wow
I am not a Protestant
I deeply admire Jordan Peterson
But this has to be among the strongest apologies for Protestant integrity I have seen a while.
Thank you , Pastor Miles
Thank you for your response to Dr. Peterson. You comments in the end however, open another can of worms. I have attended and been a member of protestant churches all my life. I'm sic k of their pandering. It's easy to say "go to church because they aren't all that way" but you have one chance a week to guess right and to be honest, the odds aren't in your favor. I've sat in my car in the parking lot of church and spent valuable time with God. When it was time to go in I felt as if I needed to say, "Well God, I hate to break this up but I have to go to church now." It shouldn't be that way but many times it is. We've been hunting a church for about two years now and may have found the church we can call home. It's not easy. I hope you are as patient with the people who are wandering around looking for a church that they can trust as you are with the idea of "darkening the door on a Sunday".
I watched his challenge with interest. And I believe he does have a legitimate claim to attention. But I think he would benefit from a conversation with someone like NT Wright. He doesn't quite understand what the church actually is. To him the church is a social institution. And that's true. But it's only partly so and needs to be seen in the context of her identity and mission. In the end churches who would listen to his exhortation are already doing what he demands and those who aren't won't listen. He's preaching to the choir. I expect he's going to be disappointed and frustrated by the response.
NT Wright having a talk with Jordan Peterson would be a theological and spiritual marvel. This must happen!
Maybe this response can also be an awakening for Dr. Peterson to speak IN the Church. God bless you Ptr Miles
Excellent response.
Whenever I see a video about JP I instantly think Matthew 7:3, and Matthew 5:43-48, because his videos never seem to even have a scrap these verses in them
Elijah....
He was a Jewish man .
How about forget theology forget all the rhetoric and apologetic bs and consider the words of a believer and mighty man of God
I'm talking about the Apostle Paul.
His revelation was not a recall to being Jewish like my people.
Paul received the great revelation of Coll 1:27.
2 Tim 2:15 This is what gets people going on the path of a believer.
You people rarly stray from the old testament where the power of pentecost is spoken of and lives.
People have little to no faith so no miracles no healing no manifestations of the Spirit .... Just apologetics and rhetoric.
You did not 3ven mention God's Word in your speech here pastor... Time to think about that brother 🙏💞
I greatly enjoy listening to Peterson. But this is exactly what a lot of Christian’s have been thinking and saying to themselves and in private. Thank you for saying it out loud. Peterson, I hope and pray that you find a good, inviting and biblical church to attend on a regular basis. That you find yourself participating in a local community that you find so valuable.
Love your feedback. Thank you!
I'm watching this in January, 2023, and I applaud you, Pastor! I have long followed Jordan Peterson, but I agree with you
I will not attend a woke church. 30 years ago I would have stated the opposite, but tolerance and "liberalism" has bit us in the rear.
*The children's Sunday school classrooms haven't seen a child in a decade or more.* It is the same in Britain.
The animus directed at Jordan Peterson is a measure of how much postmodernism has triumphed. Cultural Marxism or progressive nihilism ?
Miles, stupendous. Seriously, this is world-class
im not a christian for context but this video was a great response and i hope that jordan sees this
While Catholicism brought Europe out of the Dark ages and all the good that came with it. Unfortunately, the church as an institution is human made and will thereby always be corruptible. Protestantism brought literacy on a national level in my country Denmark. It has played an integral part on why we’re doing so well today. The leap in our development happened after the reformation.
Letting go, is the biggest message of love. A church should not gatekeep between you, the commen good and god.
The Protestant church understands this. The church is there as a guidance and community, if you need it and choose it.
Why all protestants are angry and emotional to respond JP message? Protest and protest are enough!! Do appreciate his psychology approach to read the scripture and more philosophy!!
This is world class - this is what Christian thought leadership should look like.
No unfortunately it is not at all
I disagree with Peterson...
Not All Churches ( be they Catholic, Protestant, Anglican) have given in to the "culture wars" of the day.
Excellent response ....and great challenge to Jordan Peterson.
I am glad I am not the only one who felt like Jordan Peterson was having a Martin Luther moment.
I have been listening to JP quite a bit over the last three or four months. I freely admit that I do not understand much of what he says. I myself and a bit of an oxymoron in that I am a conservative and a member of the DOC church. For me the idea of the founders of the DOC was great but has been taken over by FAR left liberalism. (Good theory but doesn’t work in practice) my antidotal evidence is that many if not most Protestant churches (but certainly DOC) have tried their best to conform to the world rather than conform the world. It may have started with “techniques” to try to appeal to the modern world but many if not most have succumbed to the modern world. I am a proponent of “if you want to complain about the problem, bring a solution” guy. But I freely admit I do not know the solution. As I read the Bible I am constantly amazed thinking “that chapter could have been written yesterday about what is happening today.” So I think the answers to our modern world problems are still in the Bible. But I do not know how we are going to turn our modern world back to Christ.
Great summary of the current condition of Christian churches, but I had to go back and watch Jordan Peterson's video to be able to tell if you were agreeing with him or not.
I’m glad Pastor Miles was so respectful in his response and can appreciate his position, but as a middle aged white woman who has been a Christian- and in church- pretty much my whole life,I think Mr. Pederson has some wisdom that is beneficial to all of us, as we live in a world where we are literally constantly bombarded by “anti-truths”, and I believe if our pastors and Christian leaders will not stand up and loudly and consistently counter these lies, God will use someone who will. Even if your church isn’t one who seems to be guilty of most of the charges Mr. Pederson made, it is likely some worldly influence has seeped in regarding some of these issues that is manifested in practical ways. If not, praise God, but I would think you could recognize the general need for such an admonition in the church today and be glad for it. Also, unless you regularly engage your church in such anti anti-truth teaching, you undoubtedly have church members who struggle with their understanding of these issues in light of their immersion in the world that pushes the anti-truth so forcefully. I don’t know how Mr. Pederson has developed such a keen understanding and the drive to get his message out, but I think you would have to admit that he does have great insight and his message is a good one. I’m not suggesting critiquing is wrong by any means, but I just wonder if his position as an outsider puts church leaders such as yourself off to where you fail to recognize the truth of what he is saying and try to fight him rather than see and embrace the message.
You make good points but I would encourage you to listen to DCCI Ministries’ response as well - trying to remember Hatun’s guest’s name as he did a great job at addressing Dr Peterson’s message.
Thanks. I will look into that. I (I guess pretty obviously since I had the wrong spelling) don’t follow J. Peterson in any way, but I think that is to my advantage, since I could listen to the message without bias from what other positions he may or may not take on other issues.
God orchestrated response!🙌🔥👑
Brilliant! Thanks Miles. The idea of going out with the gospel is something that is much maligned in the churches. You are so unusual. I live in Europe and here a church like yours may well exist but I have no idea where. Europe is the dark continent of the age. The churches are in hiding and the gospel has been largely kept hidden. The result is societies going into meltdown. Truth is lost in a sea of radical, absolute, fundamental relativism. Jesus bless you.
Jordan Peterson indeed is addressing some very serious issues that are obviously more prevalent in the mainstream churches. What needs to happen is that he needs to be born again from above and he will then have a better impact on the world.
What are his intentions?
what do you think of Norman Vincent Peale?
This was spectacular! Precisely the type of messaging and responding that does justice to Peterosn while providing alternative perspectives he might've not considered yet.
Well done, Sir 👏👏👏 finally time for the churches to speak up boldly and start addressing the community again, whether you agree with everything Dr Peterson said, look, he's got people talking and connecting on the right subject matter, and I think that was the point 😁
At last, a pastor with fortitude. Pastor Miles stands nearly alone to defend the truth and shed light on the darkness in the midst of the church's adulation for Jordan B. Peterson, a Gnostic Pagan. I salute you, sir! “A Jungian Gnosticism that is essentially Pelagian at key points.”
Peterson's interpretation of Christianity is "weird" in several aspects. In other respects, what distinguishes Peterson's theology from mine is its lack of "strangeness." In the end, by human standards, historic Christianity is atypical. We affirm our faith in an invisible, all-powerful, and all-loving God despite the prevalence of evil in the world. We acknowledge the inspiration of the Bible despite its many peculiarities. We believe in the Trinity and in a completely human and fully divine Christ. Thus, the majority of heresies may be seen as efforts to reconcile the strangeness of the religion with whatever kind of human "reason" is now in vogue. While I retract my use of the term "weird," I stand by my description of "Jungian Gnosticism" with a dash of Pelagius. Now, to define these terms,
“JUNGIAN GNOSTICISM”
Unlike his mentor Freud, who rejected all religion as an "illusion" based on "wish-fulfillment," his mentor Jung saw religion as a "realm of truth." Karl Jung considered the usefulness of religious "myths" and archetypes seriously. Likewise, Peterson A crucial aspect of both Jung's and Peterson's works, however, is the speed with which they separate biblical material from history and homogenize it with all other pagan tales. Thus, when Peterson discusses Genesis (or Jesus in 1 John), he concludes that the Babylonian Enuma Elish gives us essentially the same thing in a more engaging manner. The Babylonian account is far more Quentin Tarantino. Peterson compares Marduk to God, who creates amazing things from chaos. Since every first-year OT student is taught the parallels between the Enuma Elish and Genesis, the connection has some merit. (While simultaneously learning about the enormous contrasts! ) The issue, though, is that neither Peterson nor Jung needs historical context for their holy texts. They just need the "knowledge" (gnosis) that may be extracted from a psychoanalytic decoding of them. In both Peterson's and Gnosticism, "salvation" is achieved not through a flesh-and-blood individual but through the wisdom of an intellectual guru who alone can discern the secret truths of Scripture. As Irenaeus explained long ago (about 180 AD), this is nonsense. Now, the connection to ancient Pelagius
“WITH A DASH OF OLD PELAGIUS”
Obviously, Peterson's interpretation of Christianity differs significantly from that of Pelagius in the fourth century; thus, I do not want to group them together carelessly. However, there is a similarity in downplaying the importance of divine grace. I must grant that such grace is a pretty unusual thing, yet Christianity cannot exist without it. For Pelagius, Christ's atonement was not necessary for salvation, as all that was needed of mankind was to "man up" and live responsible lives, as the Bible demands. In other words, "Stand up straight with your shoulders back" (Rule 1), "Tell the truth" (Rule 8), and "Set your home in perfect order..." (Rule 6) - all from the 12 Rules for Life. Obviously, none of this is poor counsel. And if this saves even one adolescent from opening fire on a middle school, we will all be thankful. Yet, as Charlie Clark observes, Peterson's whole self-improvement quest is motivated by a type of macho pride and a noticeable lack of "grace," the essential element of Christianity. So what does Peterson recommend you do? You should express yourself like a powerful, alpha lobster: "Stop slouching and hunching about." "Express yourself." Put forward your aspirations as though you were entitled to them, or at least as entitled as others. " When a guy presents himself as a successful lobster and the most gorgeous women compete for his attention, he has won the game of life. Such testosterone-laden preaching may result in visible changes, but it comes at a price. As Clark concludes, "Peterson is, in fact, precisely the character that [C. S.] Lewis describes in Mere Christianity as one of those teachers who appeal to a boy's pride, or, as they call it, his self-respect, to make him behave decently; many a man has conquered cowardice, lust, or ill-humor by learning to consider them beneath his dignity-that is, by Pride. " In the same way that theological and social conservatives have often collaborated with non-Christian political groups to maintain the appearance of a Christian society, they now place their moral education hopes in Peterson, who is at best a decent pagan. This enthusiasm is the result of desperation. To commit his Pelagian mistake, however, is to place our trust in ourselves rather than in Christ. The righteousness preached by Jordan Peterson is self-righteousness, which is not saving. The arrogance it fosters will be spiritually disastrous. The church owes young men superior direction. We need more than “good advice”; we need good news.
The “good news” of the Gospels is that they pertain to New World advances of another newly Universal Civilization like the US today, or Rome and others before, going back to the Paleo-Oriental and Neolithic rise of agriculture and urban life. That is the “historical context”, and overall millenarian and prophetic vision or revelation from which the church has fallen, from once or originally wholly gathered culturally communistic communities directly and principally bridling all in all public life and voice, to what are the mere class associations now of the propertied.
Hence, the continual national news of people striking at society precisely because they have no public voice.
The FBI negotiators with David Koresh questioned why he needed guns when the established churches didn’t; and then criticized his communal living - the established churches are based upon private property, enforced by the class legislated conventions of standing armies and police who come in to no public hearing with the people at large, but are as the chariots and taskmasters of Egypt.
Jordan Peterson strikes a prophetic note in his comments, no doubt. But as you point out, he would perhaps have more to offer if he were himself a part of the church.
I appreciate the invitation you gave him at the end. As my friend Ryan notes in our podcast, perhaps Peterson should “incarnate his own logos” and go to church:
ruclips.net/video/hDUZ7JehS5U/видео.html
Amen, an excellent response (good to see you back and well Pastor Miles); it is hard for one who has not committed themselves to the Lord, to critique those from afar as Jordan appears to often do for the last 6 years. Fascinating yes, but is it for the accolade, pride, $$$, attention, notice. I agree w you Pastor Miles - this man, as well as Elon Musk and men like him, are longing to know a Jesus they could know, but don't and only imagine, because they are not willing to take the plunge, the same plunge into being an example, he is calling the church and young men to respond to. Pride often prevents us from doing what is best not only for the one but the many. So easy to be an arm-chair quarterback. If such like these want to be in "the harvest" they can ... but they need to bend the knee to the Lord and not the culture of fame.
If these responded to the Lord, truly submitted, and truly knew what they were talking about from a biblical standpoint and not a philosophical one, making them boss and king, then their audience would be even bigger. Good for you Pastor Miles, to stand and defend. When the church quits coming in (as if starved) and goes out in the street (and shares) what it knows, the darkness will dissipate and light will shine.
You, obviously have not been paying attention over the past year+ to Dr. Peterson becoming a believer. When you see the tears in his eyes over his study of the scripture and in this time what he has discerned. What he sees happening around him is tearing him apart. What is happening in the U.S. and abroad, is leader after leader who lay claim to being Christian, but have no fruits of the spirit and their action are so counter to anything that Jesus taught fully sheds light on their true character. And yet, 81 million Americans voted for THIS? None of these people would be in power if true Christians fought the good fight. The devil has them in power all the same. For evil to flourish all that has to happen is for good men to do nothing. You cannot blame any of this on Dr. Peterson who has been fighting the good fight, yet name me one pastor who has taken on this fight at even close to the level of Dr. Peterson? You can't. If Jesus were here right now how many pastors would be thrown out of their "temples" as they have changed them into money changing holes and have no issues with the LGBTQ+ community or the groomers in our schools, or those who support abortion up to and after birth. A good reminder for all of us is what Jesus said: Go and sin no more. Is that asking too much? You can tell what a population is for by what they fight for.
@@jtavegia5845 dear J - obviously I hit a deep nerve chord in you. I did see Dr. Peterson cry. I understand his anguish w what is happening around him and the culture, and many in the culture will feel the same when Tredeau a relative of Castro continues his Communistic regime of tyranny as long as the deep state rich buy and guarantee his and other false leaders.
What you don't understand Biden's wife doesn't even follow him, and fewer Americans do as well. Biden/Pelosi are more of the devil as is many in the Catholic cult. 81 million people did not vote for him. They stopped the election (1st time ever) for 6 days) until they could fanagle all the books and catch him up. they did all they could w money and bribes to get the last who would stand for his country Trump out of office by hook, or by crook. In AZ Biden only had 8 people show up to his rally. People streamed the freeways for miles w Trump flags, and every rally of his was 35,000 so tell me sanely, how does such a man who never left his basement win a campaign? By corruption.
It isn't that people stood by as you presume. This is the judgment of God now happening. This Great Reset is leading us to what is really the Great Tribulation described in Revelation.
I like Jordan Peterson, I like Thomas Sowell, I pray for them. Brilliant minds, and they make a nice shiny penny for 2 cents worth of their opinion, yet as to standing up for God, and behavior that shows they are "born again" - doing things the Bible calls the fruit of the Spirit as evidence of Christ new life within them, well I don't yet see it in these two. The struggle yes. The frustration yes. The tears yes. But tears does not equal true repentance ... yet. God is not finished w him or Elon Musk or others for that matter. Perhaps in due time, if we believers pray for God to intervene mercifully in their lives as he did ours. We are no better J.
As for the woke churches in support of the gays and whatever else you call the sleze, sin is sin, and there are many good pastors, yet others who are wolves in sheeps clothing, and that is what you have, those who support such are not Christian or saved, they do the work of their father the evil one who will suffer hell and damnation in the eternal lake of fire.
Pastor Miles is one of JP's long-time biggest fans.
We are sinners. We are saved by grace. Forgiven. Justified in Christ positionally, yet in our own struggles sanctified, but submitted. I cannot yet say that for those 3 above, they are strong men, and like Sinatra they tend to do things as they see them, their way.
thanks for your response. This election and many around the world is being hijacked. It is a communist revolution where they think they win, but in the end, they will know God, the judgment of God, and all will bend the knee to the Almighty and most Powerful God. The Lord Jesus Christ.
So what you have in Dr. Peterson is a person so intelligent that he is trying to "think his way to God", but we all know that cannot be done as it is a matter of the heart. When you watch his video studies on the Bible he gets closer and closer and then he finally gets The Cross, the humility of God, and the love of humanity that it would take to allow the nails in his flesh. At the point when the sins of the world are place on Christ, God has to turn away and Jesus says, "My God, My God, why have you forsaken me?" That instant he felt the separation of God from himself and it had to be too much to take. It takes a lot for us to gain everlasting life, and Christ did that freely for us. I had always hoped Dr. Peterson would get there, but he had to do it on his own. @@servingjesussinnersavedbyg8456
@@jtavegia5845 Amen and pray for him, and people like him. This is why Pastor Miles addresses the need not only to be positionally saved (justified) as Christ does for us, but to abide in Christ, and in that continual (sanctification) we are continually being perfected and saved until one day we are in Him, as He is. Jordan and others great men, great thinkers, teachers, just need to keep in the school of Christ in the church, as there is no Lone Ranger discipleship. Pleasure to have shared w you friend.
Pastor Miles.
Most of what you said in this video, I agree with. And certainly I myself do not like the idea of churches teaching woke ideologies. However; just because some churches may be approaching current events in an unbilical manner, doesn't mean that such racial injustices aren't taking place, or that there are no needed changes to our laws, or policies to the police force. These are issues which we as a society need to address, and I don't think the church should ignore them just because some modern "pastors" choose to cater to the world.
I'm not sure I would disagree with you. What *specific* injustices need to be addressed?
What happened to coffee talk? I was really enjoying it.
Would love to bring it back. But it was much easier to do when life and work were basically restricted to home during COVID.
Wow, great response. It's easy to be a critic.
After watching both videos… I would not be shocked if JP showed up at your church… I pray he does.
Bravo, well done
This isn’t as much of a response to Jordan as it a criticism of some churches, and a confirmation of other churches. Don’t get me wrong, it IS a response to Jordan, but that’s not honestly its focus. That being said, it’s a solid criticism, and a solid confirmation, albeit somewhat vague. It serves as more of a litmus test than an actual criticism of any specific church.
And it offers a good challenge to Jordan and anyone else who catches the message - before you criticize church, attend them. And realize you can’t criticize all churches based on one, or even a few.
It would be like attending one specific restaurant, having a bad experience, and then criticizing them all. That wouldn’t make sense.
Churches, let’s do better to focus on the things that please God’s heart, loving Him, doing what His word says, and loving our neighbors.
Coming from an old Protestant church I think Peterson is right to call out all churches. Even the ones that find success seem to be in competition rather than lifting up struggling churches. And as far as I know Petersons wife is catholic and he recently went to a mass as well as an Orthodox Church and said he enjoyed it. I think Protestants have been so anti catholic that it has hurt our liturgy, but this rarely comes up in conversation
Yes growing up as a Protestant I noticed that too; for example you learn a lot about inquisitions and burning at the stake but never about theft of church property of throwing monks out of windows.
History is complicated.
hey hey hey hey... none of this attacking oat milk latte! were weren't designed to drink cows milk either LOL ... but i digress... Good message! I'm a Calvinist.
I think you hit the nail on the head, it is what my response was to Jordan as well and as i overall agreed with his message, as we all did, his promotion of the old guard (orthodoxy and even more Roman catholicism) i cannot agree or understand when churched like Apologia (reformed baptist - Calvinists) are the reason Roe v Wade was even being mentioned in culture... Not the catholics... DEF not them. They were happy to share a sentence in support OCCASIONALLY once the protestants already were in the door...
So yes, i think if Jordan wants to take that step in the direction of his messages and 'sermons' he should show up on Sunday. To a protestant church.
Quick, somebody @JordanPeterson !
Really? 5.33 of 'Thats not me"' pat on the back, and then to end with 'Come to church I dare you.' Rest assured I'll never darken your door and I think that is part of the problem, "darken your door", I myself would rather have someone lighten my door.
good job. i listen a bit to Jordan and his religious guests are Roman Catholics.
He does not sseem to know Roman Catholic Idolatry very well. and He said that Egypt's statue of Isis with the Baby like Mary is a worship of motherhood that is in all cultures and rightly so" " God forgive him.
Santification is a process !
He did attend several Churches such as orthodox, catholic, and I'm sure he's been to a protestant church. Check his recent video on why you should go to church he uploaded a few hours ago. I almost thought you were going to get somewhere when speaking about Peterson sending a message to the church throughout the past number of years, but you stopped short. His message for years has been pointing out to churches the issue with current preaching which is made up of circular biblical logic. He has pulled from many sources besides just the bible when he lectures. It isn't just straight the bible says this and this is what I think it means. He's pulled from various sources in the western canon and other academic fields besides just theology. He hasn't preached against video games, certain types of music, or other forms of media in pop culture without a valid logical criticism. When did the church lose it's logical edge and when did the hatred against science start. When did creationism become the hill to die on? Don't get me wrong either I despise the left wing bastardization of church thought in various churches that questions patriarchy and whatever other popular left wing talking point, but where is the meeting ground? Where is a jumping on point that doesn't preach this arrogant thought of you don't practice it our way so your lost at?
Obviously it is unwise to make blanket statements about *The Church,* as if all churches are falling short or failing to effectively reach the culture. There are *good* churches and not so good churches. I've heard many messages/sermons which came far short of accurately delivering the message of Scripture in a culturally contextualized and relevant way. But I've also heard a lot of great sermons that pulled from many sources to reinforce the message.
I saw JBP's "why should you go to church" message as soon as it dropped. I also had seen the original JBP / Jonathan Pageau conversation from which the segment was cut. I'm currently thinking through Peterson's answer to the Pageau's question. My thoughts will probably come out in the form of another video.
There are many people interested in Jordan's work based on his ability to blend psychology and ancient stories both religious and non... and ofc the emphasis on Jungian works (imo, for some) is paramount. I don't think that sending those young men to some of these churches, especially to some of the more fundamentalist or literalist approaches to religious doctrine will help those types of people much. Some will undoubtedly listen to Jordan's message. They'll decide to go to church, perhaps even expecting to get something from it akin to what Jordan's lectures have to offer, only to realize that there is much incompatibility between the approaches. The church may be able to retain a relatively small amount of those people, as some will decide to stay, but most will move on.
Bam!
where is the temple i am blind
No the church should be humble enough to listen to the secular world for a bit.
The more successful you are at appealing to, indeed pandering to, the fleeting fashions of the day, the more you lose the timelessness of what you have and the more ridiculous you look when what you are doing inevitably goes out of style.
isabel y hernando, an audio play with angelica aragon and roberto damico
A good video and a great talk.
1 of the reasons I don't care for Peterson is he tends to oversimplify and intellectualize things.
hmm...looks like it's true what they say -- pastors are selected primarily for their ability to inspire guilt in others...
I like the fact that you had the courage to stand up and ask Peterson to come to church; but the established church is morally fallen to a class institution upon private property, rather than upon the once wholly gathered culturally communistic communities - (or “first love”, in the direct re-establishment of the genders, and their then “first works” of guiding reproduction) - upon which it prophetically and apostolically originated in ethnographic spread in relation to the Lord, of himself, thereby countering Rome and the lie of an otherworldly or supernatural deity.
I'm not sure what exactly you're trying to say with this word salad. As Peterson would say, be precise in your speech.
@@PastorMiles
I agree, it was not the best in expression, and I apologize. It was actually more of a poking at the waters to see if they spoke back.
I have a long history - over three decades now - of going to the churches, and both, asking, as well as insisting, that they should establish a structure for a direct public forum among the populaces at large.
The result being that I was mocked and carried out of several churches in the southeast Dallas area - from the summer of 1989 to the fall of 1992, when I began working in Garland, Texas prior to David Koresh - of whom I prophesied of, through the connection of the Rodney King riots in LA in 1992, to Jesus’ parable of a cloud rising in the west. The foolishness of preaching to our Bible Belt became seen as the wind which blows out of the south, bringing heat.
These two aspects I connected further to the fact that John the Baptist set the stage for Jesus. This understanding, linked with the statement in John that John was baptizing in Aenon near to Salim, led me to assert to some, that someone was going to come from Waco or Austin, and make a martial stand in religion, against the Federal Government.
On February 28th, 1993, David Koresh opened a door in heaven - heaven being understood as a moral division of history and culture like BC and AD before - over and against Federal agents, and set a throne therein, as well, by his reading of the 45th Psalm touching the king, where my heart in every such people and place is once again inditing a good matter when Christ nails the certain class legislated handwriting of ordinances by the propertied to his cross of God being declared as the whole law in truth of wholly gathered culturally communistic communities like those of Acts 2.
There have been many other events since, of course, from 9-11, where lightning has come out of the east and shone even unto the west; to the present Russia/Ukraine War as Russia is the angel of Revelation 20, come down from heaven in such a today newly Universal advance, and having the key of the bottomless pit of nihilism through the false prophet of State Communism it endured, and a great chain in his hand with Alexander Solzhenitsyn’s The Gulag Archipelago.
Tyler, Austin, Albuquerque, Oklahoma City, Chicago, Philadelphia, and Los Angeles become the basis of “the mystery” of “the seven churches” - or Ephesus, Smyrna, Pergamos, Thyatira, Sardis, Philadelphia, and Laodicea respectively - in concerns of the “seven stars” and “churches” formed as another newly urban advance in the wilderness of another newly universal Civilization like our own of today, or like Rome and others before in historic succession and stage - and this is the actual prophetic bases of scripture, not some otherworldly deity which those established in the church want to call God, and pretend that they are children unto Abraham.
This pastor is based; who is he?
Better to be called Bible Believing Christians / Born Again Christians / in short Followers and believers of Christ
the sudden zoom ins outs are so annoying
Noted...
The difference between Christians and muslim are Christians are open to criticisms and advice. Have you seen the muslim reaction to their message from JP? Its full of "how dare you" 😅
You are absolutely right about that: Man-made books can always be criticized by anyone, but Make-No-Mistake no one is allowed to dare point fingers at the Divine Doctrine of the Creator of Heavens and Earth
If you are tolerant of everything you stand for nothing and we Muslims are not tolerant to the Wrong doings, secondly Jordan Peterson actually was making some grievous mistakes
@@fahimahmed-lg9sh perhaps Europe should make a stand and not tolerate you
Dude, you are laying out the problem but refuse to see it. The problem with protestantism is giving each person the ability to interpret scripture as they see fit, you included. That is why we need authority and tradition. If Luther and Calvin were right, why are there 40k protestant denominations? Where do you claim authority from? Which one of you is right. You are starting to see why the Catholic church is and will be the eternal church that Christ founded.
No. Protestantism is saying that the Bible is the final authority, not the pope/church. The aim is understanding, interpreting, and applying the Bible.
@@PastorMiles The Bible is interpreted by people who sometimes get it wrong as we humans are flawed. In the Catholic church we trust our church and its 2000 years of tradition, philosophers , scholars, martyrs, popes, saints,to help us interpret the bible and to keep doctrinal discipline.
Additionally, the Bible you use was also compiled by the Catholic church, minus a few books that Luther removed. Who gave him that authority? and if he has it, why cant you do the same and add or remove some more books ? this is why we need authority in the form of apostolic succession and that is why Luther and Calvin were wrong.
There are good churches and there are a lot of churches that don' preach the word or believe the word of God, time to maybe go back to home churches if you are in a church that doesn't teach the word, seemed to work in acts
I don't think it is an either/or situation. It is both and. The earliest church (that is, the Acts 2:42-47 church) functioned as a large corporate gathering AND a "from house to house" gathering.
But I would agree ... home groups are essential for living in connection with God and one another, as the church.
Full disclosure, I'm agnostic here. But I ask that you hear me out. Folks are leaving religion for a myriad of reasons. Diagnosed rationalization of this is irrelevant to the actions. The difference between a religious person and a 'none' is as simple as a decision. Some people leave Christian denominations in response to rigid adaptations of Biblical teachings. In contrast, others fall away because they just stopped believing. While others just don't want to go to 'church' anymore.
All of this is known and understood by clergy abroad. From outside the looking glass, I have questions. Is the portrayed/real sadness/worry partly towards the effect on individuals falling away from Christ , or the lack of financial security for the remaining staff and congregation?
I am worried that there are people whose only reason for existing is God, so I want Christianity to stick around as a segment of their private lives; however, not as a standard by which others must adhere. Let us not be naïve here. There are apparent overlapping segments under which both groups would be happy. Still, there are a few key segments where we are dialectically opposed, and that delta is where you lose people. In that aggregation, the Church is failing to retain membership over time. That is not to say they no longer believe in God, just that the two of you no longer believe in the same God.
Obviously, this is incredibly nuanced, and I don't have skin in the game as I don't confess to knowing God. I want folks to be mentally and physically healthy, and I think Christianity can do that for them. But the reverse can also be true.
edit: spacing.
Shaun,
Thanks for the thoughtful comment. I have a lot of thoughts. Made a video response on my channel. Hope you don't mind.
Amen
Interesting response. Most Christians seem to have had a similar ability to accept the criticism
Idk if you saw his message to the Muslims and their responses, but his message was a blunder and the responses absolutely brutal. I think he doesn't quite understand Islam
I wasn't necessarily impressed with Jordan's criticism for Christians as he seems to have missed what I feel is the primary mission announced by Jesus when he began his ministry
In the book of Luke chapter 4 Jesus enters the synagogue at Nazareth and reads Isaiah 61. He says "the spirit of yhvh is upon me, because he has anointed me to bring good news to the poor. He has sent me to proclaim release to the captives and recovery of sight to the blind, to let the oppressed go free, to proclaim the year of the Lord’s favor.”
I don't think the church has gotten the message either
I was somewhat surprised to see very little response from Christians/Pastors to JBP's message to the church on YT. I was not surprised by the many responses from Muslims to his message for Islam.
I agree, I do not think Peterson's understanding of Islam is all that great. But his understanding of Protestantism is also pretty dim... Or perhaps, shallow.
@@PastorMiles this is the one thing I think Peterson does get and I think he is attempting to use people's religious beliefs to angle for it
Whether you believe or don't believe in a God, it is self evident that when we lift others up or pull them out of the hole they're in, it is a net benefit to society. He wants for us to recognize our need to find common ground
I once saw a live performance of little house on the prairie in okc. Midway through the show the farm was failing due to drought and as the 2 girls sat in their father's field watching the crops die they decided to pray. But they didn't pray for their own crops. Laura decided that it might be kind of selfish. Instead she suggested they pray for the neighbors and rationalized that if God brought rain to the neighbors, some of it was bound to land on their crops as well
kim peek
He hasn't because his concept of God is not biblical.
Unfortunately, the vast majority of self-identified Christians have unbiblical concepts of God.
@@PastorMiles However he is right in that many in the Church have abandoned our responsibility to actively and intentionally disciple young men after the pattern of Paul and Timothy.