Yeah he did his fair share of evil shit like killing the people who picked him up, a fisherman just for his sandwich, getting Zsasz to torture Butch into doing his bidding, killing Isabella out of jealousy, killing Gabe for calling him a freak and so on but he did good things too like killing Galavan twice, getting back at his evil step family for killing his dad and abusing him by killing his stepsister and brother, feeding them to his stepmother then killing her too, stopping Jerome from driving the city mad and defending Gotham City from Bane and Nyssa. He made you like him, hate him, feel sorry for him, laugh with him and everything.
@@orlandolee4438 why? batman already came out at the end of the show it would be impossible making a show and not have batman come out when he already made his appearance
It lays the blue prints for the relationship Penguin will have later with Batman. Where they turn blind eye to some things in exchange for info and favors. But the strange friendship Oswald has with Gordon makes it all the more special
Do u also like his relationship with the Riddler??? Thats not just unique, it won't be seen anywhere else but only in this series.. 1st think i thought is What were they thinking??? It was kinda big *surprise* to me *1st time i watched it* i can't forget it in a funny way..
@@renoskous.4425 I love their relationship. Ed and Oswald have no real comic book love interests and that clean relationship slate, to me, makes it more than perfect they love each other. And I am a sucker for villains having a past history to explain why they have tension between them in the future. The whole relationship is just storyline gold
@@lordderp6914 yeah the ending where we find out penguin was put in prison for ten years after penguin came back specifically to help him makes me really not like jim
Agreed!!!! Me and my brother have always said “He’s a mix of Draco Malfoy and Gollum” comes off as sophisticated but has a completely wretched side hidden.
@@Loonaticx but I 'm not doing nothing, I'm only saying that is a bit gross saying crusswords😥 However for the comment on I liked too riddler and penguin even before the show😁😁😁
I feel like this version of The Penguin in Gotham is the best because it's always feels like he was going to lose but he always finds a way out of certain situations along with outsmarting his enemies
Yeah, you can't help but root for him when the odds are against him like that and he comes out on top. This is only helped by Robin Lord Taylor's extremely charismatic performance.
Dude was so distinguishable that I have a hard time calling him The Penguin. In Gotham his character story is so rich that he stands out as Oswald to me. A stand-alone interpretation
The penguin in Gotham is very capable of love and selflessness imo. He did love his mom and dad, and maybe at first he didn't really love Ed, but when Ed gives him this lecture about love and sacrifice, he changes. He really cares for Martin, he made a whole plan to help the kid escape after all, and was sincerely happy when Martin told him he considered him as a friend. Penguin also helped Jim Gordon so many times, sure we could say that it was in his self interest to have a good relationship with a cop, but honestly, this relationship brought him more problems than anything, and sometimes he did things that weren't in his advantage at all, like framing himself for the murder of Theo Galavan and ending up at Arkham Asylum because of that. A better example of an act of selflessness from him is the scene where he protects Ed from the grenade in season 5, and loses an eye. Penguin also helped a lot in that same season to save Gotham, he could've escaped with the submarine and start anew in another city (with his resourcefullness, I believe this guy could achieve anything he wants anywhere) but no, he feels too attached to Gotham. Also, there are several times in the show where it is emphasized that Penguin's greatest weakness is his heart, meaning his desire and need for reciprocal love and friendship. He's a dramatic character, that sure is evil but still has a heart and a moral compass in spite of that, and could be good but gets discouraged because of all the bad things that constantly happen to him (betrayals, deaths, heartbreaks), so he turns to villainy to take revenge on those who hurt him and show to all those people who belittled him what he's capable of. That makes him very human and relatable, and every human is capable of feeling and showing some sort of love.
He was the most relatable villian, I think. You can't help but root for him and feel bad for him whenever he's betrayed or sad, despite the terrible things he's done. And he did seem to have a small moral line- he was horrified when rape was brought up by his stepmother, and when theo wanted him to burn down so many houses, and by scaring the public masses. He only goes after those who are in his way, rather than the public masses and innocents like the Joker does. Don't know how he is in the comics, but Robin Lord Taylor's portrayal of him was incredible!
the sympathetic psychopath, hes evil, but justifiably the bad guy, he was pushed around, beaten and broken countless times and just snapped, you feel sorry for him while also hating him
Exactly. I think the whole point was that he was severely misunderstood but it's like the author of the video said, “whenever he has a chance to ‘go back to light’ he gets that light taken away and suffocates deeper into darkness”, such as when he repeatedly trusted Jim with everything and kept doing favours for him only to be backstabbed by him multiple times, his mother's, who was one of the only people who truly loved him besides his dad, death, his father's death, the whole arc with Isabella and Edward, Sophia threatening to kill Martin, etc. etc.
Yes I love that about him too! He’s not a good person, no argument there, but he’s not a monster. He really cares about the people in his life, like when the Pyg threatened to kill Martin and Oswald straight up stuffed human flesh into his mouth to save him. And he also has somewhat of a moral code, some lines he won’t cross. For example, he was horrified over the fact all of the innocent people in Haven were killed when the building blew up and really offended when he was accused of doing it.
Robin Lord Taylor's Penguin was my favorite character. I loved his story from start to finish (though I didn't like that they sent him to jail for 10 years in the epillogue.) I liked his relationship with the Riddler, Ivy, Victor, and Martin. He was the heart of the series and I wish that they would make a spin-off comic or animated series set in this universe that would follow him and the Riddler since they are free and Batman has just returned to the city.
His scenes with Victor Zsasz were always great, I was pissed as Sofia "Gigante" Falcone for managing to lure Zsasz to her side, by framing Oswald for Carmine's murder... Crystal Reed was great in that role, and was even better as Abby Arcane in 2019's *Swamp Thing* (still can't believe they cancelled it after only one season, it was one of the best live action DC shows of all times IMO) I'm real glad that *Gotham* gave Robin Lord Taylor & Anthony Carrigan some exposure, those 2 amazing actors really deserved the success they now have. Mr Carrigan's portrayal of Mr Zsasz is now set in stone in the Bat-mythos, what with Alex Morf's Zsasz from *Batwoman* being heavily inspired by him (I know, I know, *Batwoman* sucks, but the episode with Victor Zsasz kicks ass ^^ Alex Morf had also played in *Gotham* , he's the John Malkovich looking gang leader from season 5, _Sykes_ , who ends up getting killed by Jeremiah, 'member?). Penguin and Martin was also great, I was in shock when I thought that Oswald had blown him up "sky high"... the reveal at the end was so sweet
I enjoyed watching it at first but had to give it up season 2-ish I think, even though I loved the casting/actors, the writing became just ughh - some notable examples are the second (bearded + slightly fatter + hatted ) cop's random hatred/bullying of the penguin that caused him to go over the edge, and also the first (LA Noire) cop's totally random acting gf - it would be fine if the character was bipolar or something but there they made her change on a whip due to plot reasons. I have fond memories of the 1st season though
@@yuriythebest - Random hatred/bullying of the Penguin? I mean, we all love Pengy here, but from Harvey Bullock's perspective he's a remorseless killer who would stab anyone in the back to have his way. It's not really "bullying" if it's justified, right? On the other hand, I never liked how both Gordon and Bullock kept pushing Nygma around when they were working together. Lots of people make edits with Jim and Eddie as friends, but he was always smiling as Harvey's jokes, making faces behind his back when he would tell riddles, immediately tried to find an excuse to refuse his invitation to dinner before Lee Thompkins accepted for the both of them, and in the end he delivered him to the Court of Owls, where, foll all he knew, he was going to be immediately killed of by a Talon. I actually kind of like Jim, but he gets away with a lot. Ok, my bad about the looong post ^^'
We NEED a RIDDLER analisis. I loved his interpretation. He took a character that was awfully performed before and turned it into a character bigger than the 'Joker' of the series. He's a master
I have a soft spot for Jim Carey’s performance. He was infused with The 60’s camp which the movie was essentially going for. 2022’s riddler was a great combination of John Doe and “Organized Crime”Joker.
@@unacuentadeyoutube13 I've seen The Batman film but still, my favourite version of Riddler is from Gotham. Paul Dano is great but still Cory Michael Smith nailed it, at least in my opinion.
Robin Lord Taylor was amazing as Penguin I'm excited to see Colin Farrell as Penguin next year, I think he's going to be great in the role, but it's going to be hard to be better than this version (which he doesn't need to be)
As always an absolute pleasure returning to Gotham with you, Mr Vee! This city is where I was born as far as YT is concerned and it feels great to return to my old stomping ground with new friends.
You were indeed the first, as far as I can remember, "Gotham channel" that regularly gave us a platform to discuss the show on youtube, which was much needed at the time! (You and ol' Bobatalks, of course ^_^) Hope you're doing well Pup, thanks for stopping by!
@@randallflagg3700 You're too kind. All credit where due, Boba was doing this long before I was though and much more professional at it too. We're actually good friends. Gotham fans stick together!
@@ChannelPup - Good to know you guys are friends, I've always had a soft spot for Boba ^^ He is indeed _very_ pro, from the setting to the content (His interview of Francesca Root-Dodson [aka Ecco] was both professional and adorable, I often recommend that one to my friends). I'll keep on hoping for a *Pup/Boba* crossover (feat. *Vee* ) some day. Something like, I don't know, a commentary track for an episode that the fans would vote for? (Just a random idea, because the options are endless ^^) Keep up the good work Pup o/ _Gotham forever!_
The thing that facinates me about Oswald in Gotham it's that they somehow were able to make him a evil guy who cares without making him a hero. He is as bad as it gets, he will backstab and lie and manipilate and murder and while it's possible to imagine him living a more honest life it is impossible to imagine him not being a criminal in some forn or another. BUT he still deeply cares about Gotham and about the very few people he connected with, he truly loved his parents and Martin and even Ed. Martin is the best example as while he adopts the boy with bad intencions he does cares for him not only to the point of staying in Arkam for him but by doing the thing he wasn't able to do with the Riddler: let the kid go. And while the vilan who cares it's not an unique concept but the vilan who cares not having a redeption arc or even being redemable it's. Oswald it's the only vilan I can think who is able to be truly selflees but it's still completly unredemable
I have always thought that Oswald, along with Bruce and Gordon, was one of the series protagonists. And he is, he is a bad guy protagonist, not an antagonist
Robin Lord Taylor gave such a beautifully theatrical performance as Oswald and it set the tone for the show beautifully!! I really hope to see more of him
I am going to be very honest.... I feel that GOTHAMS take on The Penguin is SO WELL DONE that any new Media trying to do the Penguin should CONTINUE where Gotham left off! It was BRILLIANT! Right to the final episode, Robin Lord Taylor had me HOOKED... And that final epsiode too... Seeing Lord Taylor donning a fat suit and begining to become the Penguin we all know from the comics... It was GENUINELY the perfect transiation! This shoudl be where all future Penguin stories BEGIN! And Vee... Thanks for bringing Pup in once more!!! Great Channel... deserves the support!
I like how you say that Jerome and Jeremiah overshadowed Penguin as the big bad, but I truly never thought that Penguin would be the Big Bad, yknow? Yes hes the biggest evil character, but I feel that we were SUPPOSED to root for him, making him impossible to be The Big Bad. He’s the Villain Protagonist, not a Big Bad.
i used to not care about the penguin, but in Gotham he turned out to be my absolute favourite character. i wish i could see more of Gotham's iteration of him.
He was the reason I kept watching the show. Never did I expect someone to make me believe penguin is the best villain but Robin Lord Taylor proved me wrong. He was funny, dramatic, serious, and overall awesome at playing penguin.
I personally enjoyed Penguin’s on again/off again love fuelled rivalry with the Riddler. It was deep and complex and expanded on both characters nicely.
And he was in the walking dead, when rick and his group reach terminus and are captured and you see him with blond hair and then gets bashed in the head with a bat then gets throat slit.
His best “Oh shit moment” was his betrayal of Butch. That is called playing the long con. Masterful writing and acting. Because yeah, Butch killed his beloved mother and we as an audience just let that slide because Penguin did. He’s the best Penguin ever and they ruined him with the 10 yr jump.
Robin Lord Taylor's take on Penguin was fantastic. A lot of the other villains underestimated him to their peril. For me he was the standout in the show.
The penguin was the protagonist of the series for a very long time. He was the only charcter with such a great development and interesting story. I remember myself wishing the penguin win over gordon and company
They need to bring him back as the Penguin someday. He did the role so much better than he should have for a spin-off prequel-ish series. The guy who played the Jokers would also definitely be perfect as an official Joker some day as well as the guy who played Riddler. All three actors blew out of the shoes of their roles, making their characters more fleshed out and interesting than was expected.
While a clip of Jerome got me interested in Gotham, Oswald Cobblepot is what got me hooked. His story was the most interesting to follow in early season 1, cementing the character as one of my favorites in the show.
I love how he never leaned on his disability as an excuse. It didn’t define him. He inspires me so much via that and being a master strategist and diplomat.
I really like the version of the Penguin we got into the Telltales Batman game, and I think it might actually be my favorite. He was childhood friends with Bruce and their families were some of the most powerful in Gotham. Eventually, Oswald's parents come down with debilitating mental illnesses and are forced to go overseas for treatment, ultimately leaving their assets to be bought out by Thomas Wayne. After leaving Gotham, the Cobblepot family becomes destitute, leaving Oswald to try and regain his family's legacy via crime. He eventually becomes a crimelord, and in this continuity the name Penguin seems to come from a gas mask he wears when commiting crimes that somewhat resembles that of a bird or plague doctor. So because he managed to literally fight his way to the top of the crime world, he's actually a very capable fighter in this story, and when he returns to Gotham, it's because he blames the Wayne family for his family's decline, and thus is targeting Bruce. On top of all this, the Thomas Wayne has been accused of essentially being a crime lord in secret in this story, which raises the possibility that Penguin might actually be right about Bruce's family being responsible for his own family's suffering here.
Honestly, a lot of the shitty things in Gotham could have been avoided if the characters had let Penguin do his thing. He was essentially the gate that held off the worst of gotham's madness. When he was in power, gotham's criminals still worked in a classic gangster structure, like with falcone and maroni, but whenever penguin got removed from power, we got to witness the worst of gotham. Jerome and Jeremiah Valeska, Theo Galavan, The pyg, The court of owls comboed with the alice tetch virus and more, all done when penguin didn't have control.
I thought Robin Lord Taylor was fantastic, and anyone who has done acting can tell he enjoyed working as an actor on Gotham! The costume and styling design was gorgeous too.
Penguin was probably most iconic character of show and almost totally agree with video. Only other things I remember about penguin background is that he is from old family and was bullied in childhood (bullies didn't end up well). I like that monocle, it has interesting background of his injury from defending Gorham. And while he himself isn't sure about his own feelings, Riddler did once test them. He wanted to show him, he is incapable of love, but penguin did chose to rather sacrifice himself, that let them kill him, so he passed and really loved him. At the end of serial, he probably didn't love him and were more like friends/allies that knows each other very well, because their history. But he was, for some time love someone else and he can be redeemed. That is tragedy of his character (in many comic too). He can turn into better person, but don't. Sometimes it's his own choice, sometimes outside influence affect him, but when penguin go back into cold waters of criminal underground, he will be that predator looking for fish to eat.
I love love love this Penguin. Like, you empathize with him & want him to be better but he just... can't help but do bad things. He's like George Costanza
I think one thing Robin Lord Taylor does magnificently is facial expressions. He conveys so much with his eyes. He's in a few episodes of The Walking Dead. In his second appearance, he never says a word, but you know exactly what he's thinking just by the look on his face.
That's why the penguin is the 'main' villain. It's so well played, but there's one better character to me: the ridler. That guy made the character what it deserved to be. Please talk about the strange guy with a green hat whose name is literally E. Nigma
I remember loving Danny DeVito's performance in BATMAN RETURNS, but looking back on it now I see it as a missed opportunity. I admire the Penguin when he's depicted as intelligent, and I think it's possible to show him as that AND to show him as a deformed and disgusting slob. I really like the recent depictions of him as a British crime boss who eats raw fish.
Gotham had some really good rendition of classic Batman villains - Penguin, Riddler and even a pretty good Joker. But what killed the series was the very inconsistent written and one of the worst Gordon's ever committed to film (and that includes 60's TV show and the 90's films). Alfred was also very good.
I agree with most of what's said, aside from the "inability to love" part... First, his mom Don't tell me he didn't love his mom... He had an act for three seasons only in order to avenge her. Then, I think he genuinely loved Ed because he thought he could *trust him* (I think Oswald's paranoia was amazingly directed), and there was an episode where he chose something that was not going in his own interest only to show Ed he really loved him... And I'd say he did make "useless" (from a selfish pov) things to find and rescue Martin. I think Penguin loves, but doesn't know how to love. I'd say he even got that from Fish Mooney who also loved but was bad at loving (always regretting to give her heart)
let’s all be honest. there was a lot of amazing actors who nailed there roles in this show. loved Gordon, Bruce and Alfred, Selina, Bullock, Riddler, Penguin, hell even Professor Pyg was played excellent
He's one of my favorite Penguins too, one of my top three Penguins. My other two favorites are Burgess Meredith's Penguin from the Adam West show and the Penguin from the 2004 cartoon series The Batman.
I find the Nygma romance thing very interesting, I actually think he’s not gay, the reason he wanted Nygma was because he was the only one who treated him like a person, the same way his relationship with his mother was weird.
I also found the Nygmobblepot thing very interesting, because they never actually categorize it as *one* thing, like "gay" for instance. It's more like Penguin getting quickly attached to someone, anyone showing him love, so he himself believes that _he_ is in love. Except that if he was capable of love, he wouldn't have killed Eddie's crush, but I digress ^^' More than the relationship with his mother, I would instead compare his crush on Nygma to what happened in season 4 when Sofia Falcone manipulated him into getting feelings for her. Making the same goulash as his mother did. Giving him massages to ease the pain in his bad leg... Like she coldly stated when Penguin finally got proof that she was playing him against Gordon, it wasn't hard to get on his good side, at first... guess she didn't count of him being as paranoid as he truly his. "My mother made goulash. Brought the recipe from Budapest. Handed down through her family for 300 years." Poor Pengy... couldn't help but root for him against Sofia, despite all the evil things he's done in the past. From Theo Galavan to Sofia Falcone, the writers were smart in creating people we'd despise so much that Oswald would feel like the good guy going up against them. I guess Sal Maroni was supposed to be in this category too, but David Zayas was, for me, just waaay too much fun in this role to want him dead ^^
One hundred percent agree. Honestly it is one of the most interesting relationships in the show it makes sense penguin would love Nygma since no one else in his life besides his mother and father have cared about him in the slightest
I think that Gotham had all of the best interpretations of every villain they could have. It was awesome. When I think of The Penguin I the of Robin Lord Taylor first.
I'd like to point out how there are exactly Four real life iterations of both The Penguin And The Riddler. All in pairs for different eras: -1960's Batman -Batman Returns + Batman Forever -Gotham -2022's The Batman
First of all THANK YOU for making new Gotham content!!! I absolutely agree with you, Gotham had the best Penguin. Robin Lord Taylor's performance was just breathtaking. It's a shame the man got no award for this. It would be so awesome if you could do a video like this on Cory Michael Smith's Riddler... Cause Gotham also had the best Riddler!!!
He was indeed great, but the problem is that this character seemed like he would have been a better fit for either Tommy Elliot/Hush or Roman Sionis/Black Mask. _Characteristics:_ Childhood friend of Bruce, then things went sour, from one of Gotham City's rich families but fell from grace, blames the Waynes for this misfortune, takes it on Bruce himself, have a grudge against both Bruce _and_ Batman, turns to the city's underworld to rebuild their empire... If you think about it, the *Telltale* character had more in common with these 2 than with Penguin. He doesn't even have a reason to call himself "Penguin" in the game, except from his mask of course... Still a great character, but, from season 1, I much preferred Two-Face.
I think part of what makes him so great in this show is that he's sort of treated as a "main character" Him and Ed are pretty much the MC out of Gothams villains.
For me, the alternative title for Gotham is "The Penguin". Because Penguin always become center of the story and we can see him up-and-down in every season.
honestly the only reason i kept watching gotham was for penguin, even jerome or jeremiah wouldn't of kept me hooked that long the show was great in general but it was oswald who kept me invested
I think he and DeVito revolutionize the character! I now imagine him as a bird person who rose from busser and headwaiter in gangland restaurants to a high tech mob boss with trick umbrellas and trained penguins, lol.
The thing with Robin Lord Taylor this being a prequels is that he may eventually grow fat giving in to excess of being a mob boss. Also he may not be short person but he clearly not a giant either in fact if you look at him standing to other actor he often a inch underneath the average height
The biggest missed opportunity with lines that Penguin could have used: when he'd finally got one up on Fish - "Didn't you know this was coming? Penguins EAT Fish!"
Before Gotham all I knew about the Penguin was from the Tim Burton movie, but I still immediately knew this guy had to be it when I saw him for the first time. It's crazy how they made him look so unmistakably 'the penguin' while being so far from his original design
Hey Vee, I just want to give you thanks. Your videos on the show inspired me to give Gotham a chance, and I have not been disappointed. I am on season two and am having a blast. I fucking adore the Penguin and Riddler. They do a great job of getting you to sympathize with them without excusing what they do. And really make you see how dangerous these villains can be. The actors are just, muah, perfection. So yeah, thanks man.
![Stromae, Pomme - “Ma Meilleure Ennemie” (from Arcane Season 2) [Official Visualizer]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/1F3OGIFnW1k/mqdefault.jpg)
I always thought Robin Lord Taylor managed to get a good balance of being a monster and being a gentleman when he was The Penguin in Gotham
It gave me Al Capone vibes who is the real life penguin.
Yeah he did his fair share of evil shit like killing the people who picked him up, a fisherman just for his sandwich, getting Zsasz to torture Butch into doing his bidding, killing Isabella out of jealousy, killing Gabe for calling him a freak and so on but he did good things too like killing Galavan twice, getting back at his evil step family for killing his dad and abusing him by killing his stepsister and brother, feeding them to his stepmother then killing her too, stopping Jerome from driving the city mad and defending Gotham City from Bane and Nyssa. He made you like him, hate him, feel sorry for him, laugh with him and everything.
I heavily agree
@@Xehanort10 and he cares for the boy, i just forgot his name haha
@@serizawatamao8023 Martin. I forgot how it's spelt but I know it's pronounced marteen
They honestly could've done an entire show strictly about Oswald's rise through the criminal underworld...
I always kinda saw oswald as the main character of the show lmao. Season 1 especially
They did, it's called Gotham
Or you know what FOX should make? A Penguin and Riddler spinoff!
@@orlandolee4438 absolutely
@@orlandolee4438 why? batman already came out at the end of the show it would be impossible making a show and not have batman come out when he already made his appearance
His relationship with Gordon is unique and I like it
It lays the blue prints for the relationship Penguin will have later with Batman. Where they turn blind eye to some things in exchange for info and favors.
But the strange friendship Oswald has with Gordon makes it all the more special
Do u also like his relationship with the Riddler??? Thats not just unique, it won't be seen anywhere else but only in this series.. 1st think i thought is What were they thinking??? It was kinda big *surprise* to me *1st time i watched it* i can't forget it in a funny way..
@@renoskous.4425 I love their relationship. Ed and Oswald have no real comic book love interests and that clean relationship slate, to me, makes it more than perfect they love each other.
And I am a sucker for villains having a past history to explain why they have tension between them in the future. The whole relationship is just storyline gold
I just wish Jim treated him better🙁
@@lordderp6914 yeah the ending where we find out penguin was put in prison for ten years after penguin came back specifically to help him makes me really not like jim
Robin Lord Taylor struck the balance between disgusting and sophisticated so perfectly. He's absolutely the best version of the Penguin.
He sure is! By a mile too !!
I agree 👍:)
Agreed!!!! Me and my brother have always said “He’s a mix of Draco Malfoy and Gollum” comes off as sophisticated but has a completely wretched side hidden.
@@questworldiangreenknight7455 - Heh, that's a pretty good comparison you got there.
I always fucking loved this penguin and riddler
In the line "I always loved penguin and riddler". There is no need of the cusswords
@@godzilla6026 we're not at your house. Stop setting rules.
@@Loonaticx but I 'm not doing nothing, I'm only saying that is a bit gross saying crusswords😥
However for the comment on I liked too riddler and penguin even before the show😁😁😁
@@godzilla6026 they're just words. That's all. They express intent of delivery.
@@godzilla6026 neek
I feel like this version of The Penguin in Gotham is the best because it's always feels like he was going to lose but he always finds a way out of certain situations along with outsmarting his enemies
Ikr I love him
Yeah, you can't help but root for him when the odds are against him like that and he comes out on top. This is only helped by Robin Lord Taylor's extremely charismatic performance.
He always outsmarted them like with fish, his step family, Ed, and Tabitha
Talking his way out too
Dude was so distinguishable that I have a hard time calling him The Penguin. In Gotham his character story is so rich that he stands out as Oswald to me. A stand-alone interpretation
The penguin in Gotham is very capable of love and selflessness imo. He did love his mom and dad, and maybe at first he didn't really love Ed, but when Ed gives him this lecture about love and sacrifice, he changes. He really cares for Martin, he made a whole plan to help the kid escape after all, and was sincerely happy when Martin told him he considered him as a friend. Penguin also helped Jim Gordon so many times, sure we could say that it was in his self interest to have a good relationship with a cop, but honestly, this relationship brought him more problems than anything, and sometimes he did things that weren't in his advantage at all, like framing himself for the murder of Theo Galavan and ending up at Arkham Asylum because of that. A better example of an act of selflessness from him is the scene where he protects Ed from the grenade in season 5, and loses an eye. Penguin also helped a lot in that same season to save Gotham, he could've escaped with the submarine and start anew in another city (with his resourcefullness, I believe this guy could achieve anything he wants anywhere) but no, he feels too attached to Gotham.
Also, there are several times in the show where it is emphasized that Penguin's greatest weakness is his heart, meaning his desire and need for reciprocal love and friendship.
He's a dramatic character, that sure is evil but still has a heart and a moral compass in spite of that, and could be good but gets discouraged because of all the bad things that constantly happen to him (betrayals, deaths, heartbreaks), so he turns to villainy to take revenge on those who hurt him and show to all those people who belittled him what he's capable of. That makes him very human and relatable, and every human is capable of feeling and showing some sort of love.
He was the most relatable villian, I think. You can't help but root for him and feel bad for him whenever he's betrayed or sad, despite the terrible things he's done. And he did seem to have a small moral line- he was horrified when rape was brought up by his stepmother, and when theo wanted him to burn down so many houses, and by scaring the public masses. He only goes after those who are in his way, rather than the public masses and innocents like the Joker does. Don't know how he is in the comics, but Robin Lord Taylor's portrayal of him was incredible!
exactly, people think hes just fully selfish when hes not.
the sympathetic psychopath, hes evil, but justifiably the bad guy, he was pushed around, beaten and broken countless times and just snapped, you feel sorry for him while also hating him
Exactly. I think the whole point was that he was severely misunderstood but it's like the author of the video said, “whenever he has a chance to ‘go back to light’ he gets that light taken away and suffocates deeper into darkness”, such as when he repeatedly trusted Jim with everything and kept doing favours for him only to be backstabbed by him multiple times, his mother's, who was one of the only people who truly loved him besides his dad, death, his father's death, the whole arc with Isabella and Edward, Sophia threatening to kill Martin, etc. etc.
Yes I love that about him too! He’s not a good person, no argument there, but he’s not a monster. He really cares about the people in his life, like when the Pyg threatened to kill Martin and Oswald straight up stuffed human flesh into his mouth to save him. And he also has somewhat of a moral code, some lines he won’t cross. For example, he was horrified over the fact all of the innocent people in Haven were killed when the building blew up and really offended when he was accused of doing it.
Robin Lord Taylor's Penguin was my favorite character. I loved his story from start to finish (though I didn't like that they sent him to jail for 10 years in the epillogue.)
I liked his relationship with the Riddler, Ivy, Victor, and Martin. He was the heart of the series and I wish that they would make a spin-off comic or animated series set in this universe that would follow him and the Riddler since they are free and Batman has just returned to the city.
His scenes with Victor Zsasz were always great, I was pissed as Sofia "Gigante" Falcone for managing to lure Zsasz to her side, by framing Oswald for Carmine's murder...
Crystal Reed was great in that role, and was even better as Abby Arcane in 2019's *Swamp Thing*
(still can't believe they cancelled it after only one season, it was one of the best live action DC shows of all times IMO)
I'm real glad that *Gotham* gave Robin Lord Taylor & Anthony Carrigan some exposure, those 2 amazing actors really deserved the success they now have.
Mr Carrigan's portrayal of Mr Zsasz is now set in stone in the Bat-mythos, what with Alex Morf's Zsasz from *Batwoman* being heavily inspired by him
(I know, I know, *Batwoman* sucks, but the episode with Victor Zsasz kicks ass ^^ Alex Morf had also played in *Gotham* , he's the John Malkovich looking gang leader from season 5, _Sykes_ , who ends up getting killed by Jeremiah, 'member?).
Penguin and Martin was also great, I was in shock when I thought that Oswald had blown him up "sky high"... the reveal at the end was so sweet
Miss Gotham so much. The casting for each character was great and the acting was fantastic from top to bottom. Underrated show
I enjoyed watching it at first but had to give it up season 2-ish I think, even though I loved the casting/actors, the writing became just ughh - some notable examples are the second (bearded + slightly fatter + hatted ) cop's random hatred/bullying of the penguin that caused him to go over the edge, and also the first (LA Noire) cop's totally random acting gf - it would be fine if the character was bipolar or something but there they made her change on a whip due to plot reasons. I have fond memories of the 1st season though
@@yuriythebest - Random hatred/bullying of the Penguin?
I mean, we all love Pengy here, but from Harvey Bullock's perspective he's a remorseless killer who would stab anyone in the back to have his way.
It's not really "bullying" if it's justified, right?
On the other hand, I never liked how both Gordon and Bullock kept pushing Nygma around when they were working together.
Lots of people make edits with Jim and Eddie as friends, but he was always smiling as Harvey's jokes, making faces behind his back when he would tell riddles, immediately tried to find an excuse to refuse his invitation to dinner before Lee Thompkins accepted for the both of them, and in the end he delivered him to the Court of Owls, where, foll all he knew, he was going to be immediately killed of by a Talon.
I actually kind of like Jim, but he gets away with a lot.
Ok, my bad about the looong post ^^'
We NEED a RIDDLER analisis. I loved his interpretation. He took a character that was awfully performed before and turned it into a character bigger than the 'Joker' of the series. He's a master
I have a soft spot for Jim Carey’s performance. He was infused with The 60’s camp which the movie was essentially going for. 2022’s riddler was a great combination of John Doe and “Organized Crime”Joker.
@@EscapeArt15 I haven't seen the new batman film yet, I was talking about the riddler from Gotham in this comment
@@unacuentadeyoutube13 I've seen The Batman film but still, my favourite version of Riddler is from Gotham. Paul Dano is great but still Cory Michael Smith nailed it, at least in my opinion.
@@mr.heisenberg6517 he truly owned the show with the penguin
@@unacuentadeyoutube13 can't agree more. Their duo always take over the screen when they're together.
The Best Penguin, I couldn’t agree more.
Sorry Burgess Meredith was best Penguin.
@@Babygirlly555 he was good but nowhere near best penguin
@@redguywithatophat1900 He made the Penguin famous. In the early comics Penguin was just a minor villain. Until Meredith made him Iconic.
@@Babygirlly555 yes but he isn't the best version in my opinion, I'm not saying that he's not iconic because he is great but that's just me
Fun fact the actor paul reubens who plays penguins father also played his father in the Batman returns
And in two totally different ways. I. Batman begins he is heartless but in Gotham you can’t help but feel for Oswald when his father is taken from him
@@josephgrace5955 You mean Batman Returns?
@@devontehuntley6274 yeah lol good catch
XD!!!!!!!!!!! nice little easter egg
@@josephgrace5955 Im shocked Vee nor Pup brought that actually
Robin Lord Taylor was amazing as Penguin
I'm excited to see Colin Farrell as Penguin next year, I think he's going to be great in the role, but it's going to be hard to be better than this version (which he doesn't need to be)
What do u think now
I'm shocked Vee nor Pup brought up that Paul Reubens played Oswald's father in Batman Returns and Gotham
As always an absolute pleasure returning to Gotham with you, Mr Vee! This city is where I was born as far as YT is concerned and it feels great to return to my old stomping ground with new friends.
It's always a pleasure when you talk about Gotham.
You were indeed the first, as far as I can remember, "Gotham channel" that regularly gave us a platform to discuss the show on youtube, which was much needed at the time!
(You and ol' Bobatalks, of course ^_^)
Hope you're doing well Pup, thanks for stopping by!
@@randallflagg3700 You're too kind. All credit where due, Boba was doing this long before I was though and much more professional at it too. We're actually good friends. Gotham fans stick together!
@@ChannelPup hey pup😉
@@ChannelPup - Good to know you guys are friends, I've always had a soft spot for Boba ^^
He is indeed _very_ pro, from the setting to the content
(His interview of Francesca Root-Dodson [aka Ecco] was both professional and adorable, I often recommend that one to my friends).
I'll keep on hoping for a *Pup/Boba* crossover (feat. *Vee* ) some day.
Something like, I don't know, a commentary track for an episode that the fans would vote for?
(Just a random idea, because the options are endless ^^)
Keep up the good work Pup o/
_Gotham forever!_
People can say what they want about Gotham, but they have to admit, the Penguin was great in the show.
The thing that facinates me about Oswald in Gotham it's that they somehow were able to make him a evil guy who cares without making him a hero. He is as bad as it gets, he will backstab and lie and manipilate and murder and while it's possible to imagine him living a more honest life it is impossible to imagine him not being a criminal in some forn or another. BUT he still deeply cares about Gotham and about the very few people he connected with, he truly loved his parents and Martin and even Ed. Martin is the best example as while he adopts the boy with bad intencions he does cares for him not only to the point of staying in Arkam for him but by doing the thing he wasn't able to do with the Riddler: let the kid go. And while the vilan who cares it's not an unique concept but the vilan who cares not having a redeption arc or even being redemable it's. Oswald it's the only vilan I can think who is able to be truly selflees but it's still completly unredemable
I have always thought that Oswald, along with Bruce and Gordon, was one of the series protagonists. And he is, he is a bad guy protagonist, not an antagonist
Yes, Antihero.
@@mshaddds8013 No, bad guy protagonist
Robin Lord Taylor gave such a beautifully theatrical performance as Oswald and it set the tone for the show beautifully!! I really hope to see more of him
I am going to be very honest.... I feel that GOTHAMS take on The Penguin is SO WELL DONE that any new Media trying to do the Penguin should CONTINUE where Gotham left off! It was BRILLIANT!
Right to the final episode, Robin Lord Taylor had me HOOKED... And that final epsiode too... Seeing Lord Taylor donning a fat suit and begining to become the Penguin we all know from the comics... It was GENUINELY the perfect transiation! This shoudl be where all future Penguin stories BEGIN!
And Vee... Thanks for bringing Pup in once more!!! Great Channel... deserves the support!
One of THE BEST VILLAINS PORTRAYALS/ACTORS to be in Batman media. He MADE THE SHOW in so many ways.
Finally someone said it!! Robin Lord Taylor is amazing in this role
I like how you say that Jerome and Jeremiah overshadowed Penguin as the big bad, but I truly never thought that Penguin would be the Big Bad, yknow? Yes hes the biggest evil character, but I feel that we were SUPPOSED to root for him, making him impossible to be The Big Bad. He’s the Villain Protagonist, not a Big Bad.
I actually met Robin Lord Taylor at Comic Con once he’s such a nice and down to earth guy
i used to not care about the penguin, but in Gotham he turned out to be my absolute favourite character. i wish i could see more of Gotham's iteration of him.
He was the reason I kept watching the show. Never did I expect someone to make me believe penguin is the best villain but Robin Lord Taylor proved me wrong. He was funny, dramatic, serious, and overall awesome at playing penguin.
I personally enjoyed Penguin’s on again/off again love fuelled rivalry with the Riddler. It was deep and complex and expanded on both characters nicely.
Before watching Gotham I never would’ve guessed penguin would become one of my favorite batman villains
Anyone else remember Robin Lord Taylor in Accepted?
He played a guy with A.D.D. named Abernathy Darwin Dunlap.
First time I saw him
And he was in the walking dead, when rick and his group reach terminus and are captured and you see him with blond hair and then gets bashed in the head with a bat then gets throat slit.
This show was an underrated classic
Robin Lord Taylor as the Penguin was captivating. Gotham did a great job with characters.
His best “Oh shit moment” was his betrayal of Butch. That is called playing the long con. Masterful writing and acting. Because yeah, Butch killed his beloved mother and we as an audience just let that slide because Penguin did. He’s the best Penguin ever and they ruined him with the 10 yr jump.
When butch dies completely killed me, but it also made me love the penguin way more
Robin Lord Taylor's take on Penguin was fantastic. A lot of the other villains underestimated him to their peril. For me he was the standout in the show.
The penguin was the protagonist of the series for a very long time. He was the only charcter with such a great development and interesting story. I remember myself wishing the penguin win over gordon and company
They need to bring him back as the Penguin someday. He did the role so much better than he should have for a spin-off prequel-ish series. The guy who played the Jokers would also definitely be perfect as an official Joker some day as well as the guy who played Riddler. All three actors blew out of the shoes of their roles, making their characters more fleshed out and interesting than was expected.
Honestly, seeing penguin climb the ladder is 100xs more interesting than him already being on the top, i hope more incarnations explore this
He was unexpectedly my favorite character on the show.
Same :)
Tom Kenny was great as the Penguin in THE BATMAN cartoon.
Didnt know that was Tom Kenny and I agree
Yea he was and that show was most underrated animated show of Batman
Honestly, Robin is the main reason I kept watching this show. I absolutely loved watching Cobblepott's rise to power.
Penguin and riddler in gotham are my favorite live action interpretations of those characters im supper excited for the new riddler though.
I feel like Gotham was a worthy prequel/new look at the Batman mythos and rogues gallery
"Rags to Riches but evil" sumarized Gotham Oswald story soo well.
While a clip of Jerome got me interested in Gotham, Oswald Cobblepot is what got me hooked. His story was the most interesting to follow in early season 1, cementing the character as one of my favorites in the show.
Gotham's Penguin and Riddler are the best live action versions and I love Carrey's take on the riddler
I love how he never leaned on his disability as an excuse. It didn’t define him. He inspires me so much via that and being a master strategist and diplomat.
I really like the version of the Penguin we got into the Telltales Batman game, and I think it might actually be my favorite. He was childhood friends with Bruce and their families were some of the most powerful in Gotham. Eventually, Oswald's parents come down with debilitating mental illnesses and are forced to go overseas for treatment, ultimately leaving their assets to be bought out by Thomas Wayne. After leaving Gotham, the Cobblepot family becomes destitute, leaving Oswald to try and regain his family's legacy via crime. He eventually becomes a crimelord, and in this continuity the name Penguin seems to come from a gas mask he wears when commiting crimes that somewhat resembles that of a bird or plague doctor. So because he managed to literally fight his way to the top of the crime world, he's actually a very capable fighter in this story, and when he returns to Gotham, it's because he blames the Wayne family for his family's decline, and thus is targeting Bruce. On top of all this, the Thomas Wayne has been accused of essentially being a crime lord in secret in this story, which raises the possibility that Penguin might actually be right about Bruce's family being responsible for his own family's suffering here.
Telltale was a very creative take on Penguin and I admire them creating Lady Arkham whose a completely new concept.
They couldn’t have picked a better actor! So menacing yet so good!
The crossover we never expected but now that we think about it is absolutely perfect
His performance on this show was the reason I placed him in my 'top 10 actors of all time' list
Not anymore Colin Farrel is killing it as the penguin right now
Penguin, Riddler, and Gundy were my favorite characters on the show.
Fun Fact: The Director and Writers confirmed that they focused on Oswald being more affectionate only after he was "fixed" by Hugo Strange.
Honestly, a lot of the shitty things in Gotham could have been avoided if the characters had let Penguin do his thing. He was essentially the gate that held off the worst of gotham's madness. When he was in power, gotham's criminals still worked in a classic gangster structure, like with falcone and maroni, but whenever penguin got removed from power, we got to witness the worst of gotham. Jerome and Jeremiah Valeska, Theo Galavan, The pyg, The court of owls comboed with the alice tetch virus and more, all done when penguin didn't have control.
So I guess we'll be getting a 'Gotham had the best Riddler' video soon too
Yes
I thought Robin Lord Taylor was fantastic, and anyone who has done acting can tell he enjoyed working as an actor on Gotham! The costume and styling design was gorgeous too.
Nicely done, you have solidified my appreciation of Penguin.
And Those cameos were a great investment.
Penguin was probably most iconic character of show and almost totally agree with video. Only other things I remember about penguin background is that he is from old family and was bullied in childhood (bullies didn't end up well). I like that monocle, it has interesting background of his injury from defending Gorham. And while he himself isn't sure about his own feelings, Riddler did once test them. He wanted to show him, he is incapable of love, but penguin did chose to rather sacrifice himself, that let them kill him, so he passed and really loved him. At the end of serial, he probably didn't love him and were more like friends/allies that knows each other very well, because their history. But he was, for some time love someone else and he can be redeemed. That is tragedy of his character (in many comic too). He can turn into better person, but don't. Sometimes it's his own choice, sometimes outside influence affect him, but when penguin go back into cold waters of criminal underground, he will be that predator looking for fish to eat.
This show’s Penguin is one of my favorite characters of all time.
I love love love this Penguin. Like, you empathize with him & want him to be better but he just... can't help but do bad things. He's like George Costanza
His father's last name wasn't Cobblepot. That was his mom's last name. His dad's last name was Van Dahl.
Actually his mom's last name wasn't even Cobblepot either, it was actually Kapelput
Robin was amazing,i always loved his screams and he was my favorite character in the show
I think one thing Robin Lord Taylor does magnificently is facial expressions. He conveys so much with his eyes. He's in a few episodes of The Walking Dead. In his second appearance, he never says a word, but you know exactly what he's thinking just by the look on his face.
That's why the penguin is the 'main' villain. It's so well played, but there's one better character to me: the ridler. That guy made the character what it deserved to be. Please talk about the strange guy with a green hat whose name is literally E. Nigma
I remember loving Danny DeVito's performance in BATMAN RETURNS, but looking back on it now I see it as a missed opportunity. I admire the Penguin when he's depicted as intelligent, and I think it's possible to show him as that AND to show him as a deformed and disgusting slob. I really like the recent depictions of him as a British crime boss who eats raw fish.
Gotham had some really good rendition of classic Batman villains - Penguin, Riddler and even a pretty good Joker. But what killed the series was the very inconsistent written and one of the worst Gordon's ever committed to film (and that includes 60's TV show and the 90's films). Alfred was also very good.
I agree with most of what's said, aside from the "inability to love" part... First, his mom
Don't tell me he didn't love his mom... He had an act for three seasons only in order to avenge her. Then, I think he genuinely loved Ed because he thought he could *trust him* (I think Oswald's paranoia was amazingly directed), and there was an episode where he chose something that was not going in his own interest only to show Ed he really loved him... And I'd say he did make "useless" (from a selfish pov) things to find and rescue Martin. I think Penguin loves, but doesn't know how to love. I'd say he even got that from Fish Mooney who also loved but was bad at loving (always regretting to give her heart)
Something I really liked was that penguins dad was played by Paul Reubens in Gotham and in Batman returns Paul Reubens played penguins dad
let’s all be honest. there was a lot of amazing actors who nailed there roles in this show. loved Gordon, Bruce and Alfred, Selina, Bullock, Riddler, Penguin, hell even Professor Pyg was played excellent
A character that will never change except for his constantly shifting position in the story, i love it
Has Robert Lord Taylor received an Emmy for this role yet ? . . .
No. He never did. 😕
He should have...
Colin in the new Batman. Was fantastic. Couldn't tell it was him.
He's one of my favorite Penguins too, one of my top three Penguins. My other two favorites are Burgess Meredith's Penguin from the Adam West show and the Penguin from the 2004 cartoon series The Batman.
Your videos is making me wanna rewatch Gotham.
Agreed, when the show was good Penguin was just amazing to watch.
I find the Nygma romance thing very interesting, I actually think he’s not gay, the reason he wanted Nygma was because he was the only one who treated him like a person, the same way his relationship with his mother was weird.
I also found the Nygmobblepot thing very interesting, because they never actually categorize it as *one* thing, like "gay" for instance.
It's more like Penguin getting quickly attached to someone, anyone showing him love, so he himself believes that _he_ is in love.
Except that if he was capable of love, he wouldn't have killed Eddie's crush, but I digress ^^'
More than the relationship with his mother, I would instead compare his crush on Nygma to what happened in season 4 when Sofia Falcone manipulated him into getting feelings for her.
Making the same goulash as his mother did. Giving him massages to ease the pain in his bad leg...
Like she coldly stated when Penguin finally got proof that she was playing him against Gordon, it wasn't hard to get on his good side, at first... guess she didn't count of him being as paranoid as he truly his.
"My mother made goulash. Brought the recipe from Budapest. Handed down through her family for 300 years."
Poor Pengy... couldn't help but root for him against Sofia, despite all the evil things he's done in the past.
From Theo Galavan to Sofia Falcone, the writers were smart in creating people we'd despise so much that Oswald would feel like the good guy going up against them.
I guess Sal Maroni was supposed to be in this category too, but David Zayas was, for me, just waaay too much fun in this role to want him dead ^^
@@randallflagg3700 I absolutely agree
One hundred percent agree. Honestly it is one of the most interesting relationships in the show it makes sense penguin would love Nygma since no one else in his life besides his mother and father have cared about him in the slightest
@@plugshirt1684
It does make sense
I think that Gotham had all of the best interpretations of every villain they could have. It was awesome. When I think of The Penguin I the of Robin Lord Taylor first.
I'd like to point out how there are exactly Four real life iterations of both The Penguin And The Riddler. All in pairs for different eras:
-1960's Batman
-Batman Returns + Batman Forever
-Gotham
-2022's The Batman
This version of Penguin is a frickin genius.
First of all THANK YOU for making new Gotham content!!! I absolutely agree with you, Gotham had the best Penguin. Robin Lord Taylor's performance was just breathtaking. It's a shame the man got no award for this. It would be so awesome if you could do a video like this on Cory Michael Smith's Riddler... Cause Gotham also had the best Riddler!!!
I really love Gotham and miss it often. Many things were not comic accurate but became really cool renditions of the characters.
I'm so glad you mentioned Telltale Verison of penguin I feel like he's so overlooked even thou it's one of the best interpretations of him.
He was indeed great, but the problem is that this character seemed like he would have been a better fit for either Tommy Elliot/Hush or Roman Sionis/Black Mask.
_Characteristics:_ Childhood friend of Bruce, then things went sour, from one of Gotham City's rich families but fell from grace, blames the Waynes for this misfortune, takes it on Bruce himself, have a grudge against both Bruce _and_ Batman, turns to the city's underworld to rebuild their empire...
If you think about it, the *Telltale* character had more in common with these 2 than with Penguin. He doesn't even have a reason to call himself "Penguin" in the game, except from his mask of course...
Still a great character, but, from season 1, I much preferred Two-Face.
I think part of what makes him so great in this show is that he's sort of treated as a "main character"
Him and Ed are pretty much the MC out of Gothams villains.
The riddler in this show was good af too
For me, the alternative title for Gotham is "The Penguin". Because Penguin always become center of the story and we can see him up-and-down in every season.
Honestly, I think it's harder for me to pick a favourite Penguin than it is to pick a favourite Joker.
My mom is watching gotham for the first time and oswald is her favorite character so far.
Fish moony: Oswald
Penwin: My name is Penwin😂
honestly the only reason i kept watching gotham was for penguin, even jerome or jeremiah wouldn't of kept me hooked that long
the show was great in general but it was oswald who kept me invested
I think he and DeVito revolutionize the character! I now imagine him as a bird person who rose from busser and headwaiter in gangland restaurants to a high tech mob boss with trick umbrellas and trained penguins, lol.
Whenever I hear the "piss off" part of your intro, I think of australian penguin from arkham city.
I really think this is the best Penguin, truly the ruthless coward he is supposed to be
He was easily my favorite part of the show
Robin Lord Taylor was excellent.
The thing with Robin Lord Taylor this being a prequels is that he may eventually grow fat giving in to excess of being a mob boss. Also he may not be short person but he clearly not a giant either in fact if you look at him standing to other actor he often a inch underneath the average height
the final ep penguin looks like they just thought about it last min and stuck a pillow down his top and said fuck it good enough
The biggest missed opportunity with lines that Penguin could have used: when he'd finally got one up on Fish - "Didn't you know this was coming? Penguins EAT Fish!"
The penguin was the greatest Gotham monster of all time
The made the best Penguin and version of Alfred.
Before Gotham all I knew about the Penguin was from the Tim Burton movie, but I still immediately knew this guy had to be it when I saw him for the first time. It's crazy how they made him look so unmistakably 'the penguin' while being so far from his original design
Hey Vee, I just want to give you thanks. Your videos on the show inspired me to give Gotham a chance, and I have not been disappointed.
I am on season two and am having a blast. I fucking adore the Penguin and Riddler. They do a great job of getting you to sympathize with them without excusing what they do. And really make you see how dangerous these villains can be.
The actors are just, muah, perfection. So yeah, thanks man.