bruce lee was not jesus, stop quoting a filmstar - and use your own brain. Within the wing chun world there are much better higher graduated fighters alive today that warrant some quoting. Why not quote IP man for a change, the trainer lee owed everything and whom he abandoned for the riches in the west. bruce lee did not invent taosim. But you all seem to believe so.
@@zoolkhan So wait a minute... you are faulting a student for leaving his teacher to pursue his own successes? HAHAHA So wait another minute.. you rather students stick by their teachers all the way to the end until he dies?!?! Sounds a bit cult like don't u think?
I remember hearing Ip Chun say that Wing Chun is a martial art based on principles not technique. He said that the techniques used in WC put emphasis on the principles, and as long as you follow the principles, then no matter what style or technique you use you are doing Wing Chun
Not just principles, but TEN CONCEPTS, that should all be used at once. This takes out ALL initial flaws and stiffness found in ALL BOXING derivative systems! It also allows the system to work properly against ALL SYSTEMS!
It isn't even possible to ruin Wing Chun. It's complete garbage. The best way for a Wing Chun master to win a fight is to stop using Wing Chun completely. An untrained person of equal physical fitness is at a huge advantage over a Wing Chun master in a fight.
4 года назад+3
@@Jordan-Ramses It does teach the principles of body mechanics and lays footwork foundations rather quickly.
@@Jordan-Ramses sorry, what? I'm fully willing to concede that wing chun is not the best fighting system in the world. But with equal fitness, training in any fighting system is better than training in none.
@@driesvanoosten4417 - Wing Chun is all about throwing weak punches to the least vulnerable parts of the body. It's like it's specifically designed not to hurt your opponent. Yes it makes you much worse at fighting.
@@Jordan-Ramses I get the distinct feeling I'm being trolled, but I'll bite. Weak punches? I can partly go along with that. And if you would have said that many McDojos train you to only do sticky hands. Sure. There are a lot of bad gyms out there. But the least vulnerable parts of the body? Seriously? What are the least vulnerable parts of the body that wing chun teaches you to strike? I would say the least vulnerable part of the body is the ass. And no, wing chun doesn't train you to kick some one on the ass. Vulnerable parts are the throat, the temple, the side of the jaw. That's what you're trained to strike in wing chun.
As a Wing Chun Instructor, the thing that changed my fighting the most was learning other arts that work well with the principles of Wing Chun. I focus on Baguazhang and Chin Na now, but you can still see Wing Chun in my movements. You need to incorporate things from other styles.
the show you are referencing is Fight Quest Sifu Jason. That was actually the last episode of the show. I like that you teach that form is only meant to be a foundation, not the focus in terms of fighting application.
Hello Sifu, with "wing Chun" being a terrific system, I believe people Make the mistake of forgetting that if you personally haven't applied it or understand it's place in combat, they will be at risk", self preservation is experience sometimes, crude but the reality of it'.
1.) leaning backwards, instead of slightly forwards...resulting in back surgeries and knee surgeries. 2.) standing too pigeon toed...resulting in knee problems. 3.) collapsing arms, when advancing. 4.) not tucking in thumbs on all movements...a master will have an exposed thumb in a second. 5.) Not utilizing starter movements...eye gouges, knee kicks, stepping on the toe, throat chops...before engaging the midrange. 6.) poor footwork...taking too large of steps. 7.) bad habits of chi sao sparring. 8.) Not attacking at a 45 degree angle, when using dummy movements. 9.) Lazy masters, flying monkeys, and covert narcissism. 10.) crossing arms during chi sao...leaving one vulnerable to having both arms trapped.
Your comment about the flaw of traditional approach in martial arts, particulary in wing chun are precious. It becoming my enlighment to improving my endevaour in martial arts. Thx u sir
"wing Chun is a system of concepts form that works in concepts limited only by your need and your imagination" true. "If you only focus on tradition you will never be as good or relevant as your teacher and it's your teachers job to make you as good as them ... So you need to learn to stand on their shoulders and learn to think about even more things when you stand in someone's shoulders you can see farther" I heard something like that. True. I transmit that info I pass it down you use that info however the situation demands. True! Good stuff!
Unless I'm mistaken, it was what Bruce Lee found was lacking in Wing Chun that drove him to develop JKD. That being said, Dan Inosanto is a good person to look to for practical application of WC.
Be in the now learn from the past♡ Expect change yet stay focused♡ Be open minded to other martial arts but respect and know your own♡ Use what works best for you and "bleep" everything else♡ Pressure test your skills don't just belive they will work♡ Know the difference between fantasy martial arts and reality based♡ Ohh! and if all else fails, remember the lessons your Mum gave you and Myomoto Musashi♡
There is an old 70s movie name the "Prodigal Son" directed by Sammo Hung that did have a theorical explanation of Wing Chun similar and yet different from most explanations in the internet.
Great movie...but a movie...every person I know of that is a wing Chung practitioner I have seen in a real fight, has gotten their asses kicked and looked to be basically flailing their arms froward until they were knocked out.
Awesome video, have you read The Art of War, book of 5 Rings and be like water? Thanks for an unbiased account of an excellent style of Martial Arts. Main reason I've not mastered Wing Chun is not found a Sifu who looks like he knows what he is talking about. Met one "GM" who looked and talked like he'd only ever fought in the Kwan and had no real life connection to how techniques worked in live situations
I respect you made this video in hope of helping those who do not know much of Wing Chun but I strongly disagree with some of your points. I believe Chi sao is one of the things that makes wing chun great, detecting your opponents energy and being able to control and flow with it. If you do not develop this sensitivity, you'll never become a good practitioner of the art and you will be unable to effectivly manipulate an opponent in a fight.
As a long time Wing Tsun practtitioner with trainer degrees and all that shebang (not a "sifu" though) i wholeheartedly agree. All those things, Chisao and other drills are important but please please not to get obsessed about. Chisao has a clear purpouse, never lose sight of that. Wooden dummy has a purpouse. - but neither is the real fight. Wing Chun (or wing tsun) is a set of concerpts - and whatever works within those concepts is valid to use. If you ask "why" when you encounter a technique that makes no sense to you, and your teacher can or will not answer that - it is time to change the school. I only teached my students stuff that i could explain. And yes, we also had a boxing ring - and a lot if influx from other martial arts (often people would come from karate, boxing taekwondo to our school in order to learn wing chun - OF COURSE THEY HAVE NOT FORGOTTEN THEIR PAST - we have used them, we have asked them to test us and what we know.. and if some technique would not work, we would adapt - again, alll within the conceptual frame work. And yes, dear MMA UFC trolls, that very much included ground fighting - you actually can apply wing chun principles on the ground as well. We dont think it is smart to seek the ground (because in self defense your attacker often has friends whom are ready to kick your head) - but if we cant avoid the ground, there is no reason to fail there. There is just lack of training. So, hell yeah.. train against everything and anything - test yourself in a ring with a mask on and let lose once in a while. very good advise. br, from Europe. Wing Chun forever.
The nature of Chi Sao is base feeling an opponents physical intentions when engaging with him or her! For some of us can it be a great tool to use for grappling. It comes down to the perception of the practitioner.
Basically, learning techniques that work is a good thing. You also need to develop speed, balance, endurance, strength, flexibility, quick thinking, conditioning, coordination and things like this. Then you need to practice these techniques to master them. You will then need to spar and fight so that you naturally begin to use the the things that you have learned. Too many martial arts are lots of forms and too much about following a long drawn out process. Kung Fu film training has elements of the above but the classes do not.
Well said!!! Cannot agree with you more. I feel like all WC people regardless of school or lineage should spend more time training like MMA fighters. Do some rounds on a traditional heavy bag. Let that sucker swing and see if you can keep good contact with hands and feet and with fluid footwork. More sparring rounds with a classmate or friend that can box or kickbox. Pretty much like in this video. You find out real fast where you need work. Modern training mix with traditional training ( chi sao, wooden dummy) would improve your WC. Side note love your intro music for this channel.
In other words, practice Boxing & Muay Thai as well as the sport of Basketball for better active footwork for standup fighting. (Check out Micah Lancaster Basketball & his medicine ball training with the mindset of improving fast grabs & "live" moving footwork drills)
Interpretation of a martial art is base on the reception of the practitioner! A martial artist is effective when one practice until become it practical, knee-jerk reaction & natural in nature! Never letting an opponent's blows forget what he knows.
I will say in wc defense, against MMA fighters every single martial art fails and "street fighters" fail too, JKD if they're doing it right should be very similar to MMA anyway
Great video Sifu, adaptation is what will keep Wing Chun alive. Great run down of the list. Your tradition comment reminds me of what I say to people about if traditional will work in MMA and I always illustrate of how Machida in the UFC adapted his traditional style in the rink. A balance of traditional and adaptation will keep students alive in the street. Attackers are more verse these days with easily info readily available at their disposal. Traditional is good for beginners as a foundation but once they get it learning to be alive and functional is the key. Keep up with the video!
Good video! Basically if you are being attacked you need to respond naturally and not be thinking about styles and pure wing chun or you are giving yourself a seriously handicap, that even an un trained person doesn't have!
I've heard that as well. Don't go into the wing chun stance. There is no need. I guess, as long as you have your hands basically in the center, it would still work. But the idea of having your hands OUT is to intercept the attack well before it hits you. If you move the hands even slightly out of the center, the person may be clever enough to draw your hands and open you up for attack. Or, he may be too fast. That is why boxers get hit so much! They keep their hands near the sides of the head, not giving them much time to respond to an attack since it is getting very close to the face. That is one of the advantages of having this SUPERIOR system, which takes out that fatal flaw, and many others as well, such as not over committing our response, as in all boxing derivatives, not going past center as boxers do, which causes a giant opening you can step into and exploit, or the putting of some or all of the weight on the front leg, which can cause it to be unbalanced through a pull forward. I think I would rather just give it away and be ready....
You said!!! Talk about hitting the nail on the head. I love wing Chun but I always combine it with another style. My favorite I've coined "wing-cheedo" ( wing Chun and aikido)
Nice video! Definitely agree with some of the points raised. I believe that Wing Chun as a system, it’s being scrutinised a lot lately will undergo another evolution, but may not come out of China. One of the beauties of Wing Chun is that you’re able unlike some styles to go soft and hard at any given time or the same time even . The point you raise about people’s interpretations of Wing Chun varying a lot, the only way to know if the style you’re learning works effectively? As you quoted Ip Man “go out and try it..” Only then will you truly know if the path you’re choosing is in the right direction, if not re-assess what is useful and disregard what is not (paraphrasing Bruce Lee there but you get what I’m saying lol). I think the term ‘adapt and change’ will also become more common in future Wing Chun training as time goes on much like the term ‘absorb, redirect and deflect’. Wing Chun is and always will always belong to the Chinese. Outside of China however is where different interpretations of the art will make for more unique styles in future. One final quote “Your Wing Chun is not MY Wing Chun”, is very prevalent case in point 😎👍🏾
@@game9848 That chapter was embarrasing. One or two chapters before Muay Tjai guys had had to slow down and play nice to not make both FQ contendants look bad, and with the Wing Chun guys it was the show guys who had to play at 20% to not make their hosts look like fools. The boxer guy was smashing his WC opponent's head away from his neck.
@@LINKchris87 I love Wing Chun; it needed a wake up call. I would love to add Sanda and Shuai Jia. However nobody teaches that in my area. So I'm adding some elements of Muay Thai and Judo. I'm from Leung Shung lineage; however I'll admit the guys from Wong Sheng Leung have the best fighters...
@@game9848 I trained WC for a few years and I think there are good things to learn from it, but I have found that I feel more comfourtable doing Sanda, Judo or just plain boxing^^
I get your point on responsibility of the teacher to help student elevate their skill, however I don't want to be as good as Bruce Lee or Ali. I want to be the best I can be.
Funny thing about Wing Chun vs MMA is this: Wing Chun is one style while MMA by the name itself represent MIX martial arts styles. So you can do and use any style you know cuz its mix of various style so as techniques. That is the rule of it. How about Kung Fu? PRECISELY! It's not one style but hundreds. In Wing Chun you don't do grab and take downs but in MMA the floor is yours. I experienced being carried by some one. It was just out of boredom so we played. I was somehow winning, he stepped on my feet... he carried me put me on a bench of a open hut, pressed me and hit me in the leg. So at that point I lose. We stop cuz we were having an event. It was plytime but what if it was for real right?! I win many of those playtime cuz its playtime. Punch then blocking. But the way he is was my size now I see him 3x my size. In the film Ip Man 2 atthe boxing ring although than perticular fight scene was fictional Ip Man used a different style cus plain wing chun was not working so well. Let's be realictis people. When you fight its not merely about the style but its more ABOUT YOU! Remmeber the saying "Guns don't kill people, people kill people!"
Thanks for sharing your thoughts and experiences, very much appreciated♡ I liked the voice over (in this video) it reminded me of the classic kung fu movies of Chinese being dubbed in to English♡ As for alive-ness; What Frankenchun is missing when practing "Sil Lum Tau" form for instance, is that it doesn't contain momentum; a missing piece of the puzzle. Momentum is an important piece of information for all marital arts; Wing Chun is no exception. Thefore when practicing SLT stationary, this doesn't mean or imply that it should also be when sparring or fighting. As SLT contains the fighting aspects of Wing Chun minus momentum. As sparring in a Wing Chun school (Promoting and Promulgating) it stands to reason that these should be the techniques used, instead of anything else used in the martial art world; as in a TKD class, for example doing Krav Maga will get a person expelled very quickly. Then perhaps one sparring session, devoted to Wing Chun and another to anything goes♡
@Nicholas Relaxation is based on the snake engine principle of Wing Chun as a Cobra just stikes from wherever possible, just maintain your balance and safe distancing stay lose and quick; remembering that action beats reaction, so keep yourself moving constantly in ways of maintaining, dominance or advantageous positions, or either controlling the distance or the opponent. As for angling, this is just giving different poses for the opponent to look at, not being a target, by moving in and out in different ways, using feints, with the head, shoulders, hands, footwork, moving to their blind side, cutting away their possibilities to stike; whilst maintaining one's own balance and distance and simultaneously disrupting theirs; utilising slipping, bobin n weavin. As don't get yourselve comfortable, on the contrary get busy disrupting theirs relentlessly, never giving the opponent the chance to formalise any plans against you. This is called "general-man-ship" take command and stay in charge of the situation.
@@starshipdjs7524 Yep ! That's exactly what I've been looking into - the Snake Engine using the spine to create maximal force through body-linkage (jing) with correct spinal alignment with a fluctuation in-range ! I understand the knowledge perfectly , but I do have some previous injuries and back-issues that limit my mobility. . . Any thoughts on this ? BTW - you really know this stuff and I'm impressed with your knowledge on a deep level of shen fa.
@Nicholas; regarding your back then 1st Suggest practing single and double hip movements when deflecting and striking. There should be some video's about how to use the double hip movement here on RUclips easily enough. Remember Bruce Lee had a serious back injury and he overcame this with his quick hip actions when punching. 2nd The "shoulder" alignment with the body is a very underrate when striking but once again not with Bruce Lee and the one inch punch. Here now recently with the McGregor and Cowboy fight the shoulder comes in to play again. Get strong shoulders, get in plenty of push ups whenever possible. Keep that back of yours in alignment like stacking bones and I belive you will be okay.
Fighting is thinking on your feet, most are not trained to think on your feet fast enough and not poor skills. Most can display excellent skills when not under pressure ...that is the key failure point. Same as in real life , a PhD does not necessary fare better than someone with lesser qualified education in a free for all market place with no clear rules ....to succeed
Brian Peace while it certainly helps it’s not essential. What you can do is learn the form and the principles it teaches and practice the “air dummy”. It’s not the perfect way to go but it’s still helpful. The major thing to do in its absence is good footwork drills so that you learn to intuitively move your structure in a non-contradictory way. Most people neglect footwork training in Wing Chun except for the dummy, so if you do that you’ll continue to make progress. Thanks so much for watching and I hope this helped. 🙏
Standing there in your centerline WC stance. Waiting for things to happen. Trying to block everything coming towards you. It’s probably not going to work. Take one good shot and your getting knocked out. And then your days of sucking will be over. I love WC, but you need to be extremely careful about what you do in a fight. You need to be both deceptive and ruthless. I’m not sure you can teach that? If that’s not what you’re into, then you might as well just practice running.
It's sad that what you say isn't standard mindset. The goal of a fight is to win. It's not how you did it. It's ONLY to win. There are endless lineages in the roots of every martial art, some more than others. A very interesting thing is the internal aspect. I wonder if you have any experience with internal training in wing chun. Energy! Minimal movement with no loss of power. Great video because you are smart and not swallowed by other people's stupid conservative ideas.
Wing Chun evolved all the way to Ip Man. For some reason since then people think that to be Wing Chun it must be the way Ip Man did it. Many people modify Wing Chun and the commentators say "that's not correct Wing Chun". I use hook punches in my training, boxing style. If my opponent controls the centre line, I can hook and overhand around the arm. Because I'm a wing chun man I can control my centre line while I do this. I use head and body movement, because testing proves it works. If anyone tells me I use these movements and techniques because my wing chun is poor, I say get in a ring with a boxer and see how your traditional wing chun works. Ip man was an innovator, why isn't innovation one of the principles of Wing Chun?
if you believe you are practicing anything in a vacuum then you are blind...Chi Sau isn't practicing fighting, it is practicing distance and feeling. Street fighting isn't wing chun, you don't use anything you have learned in class other than managing distance, hitting and not getting hit. I really fail to see the controversy around Wing chun, there is nothing controversial about blocking, and striking. I think the IP Man movies really set the entire thing back.
Yeah, and that means only ONE THING! If you don't want to be a slave to wing chun, that's fine. But you MUST LEARN THE ENTIRE SYSTEM FIRST before you can modify it ( I hate that word! It is misleading!) to your likes or dislikes, your personality, even your abilities or disabilities. In this case, modified DOES NOT mean missing key elements that make it work properly, but just adjusting the system to what works best for you, be it punches, kicks, palm strikes, grappling, even locks and throws! Unfortunately, many of these modified wc guys don't do that, do they? It's sad I have to keep explaining the difference between modified and MODIFYING wing chun!
First thing...WC has not progressed since early 1900's. WC came about from BKB. Double arm CS was designed to stop hooks and uppercuts only, not linear strikes. Not enough realistic sparring. Too much neutral stance positioning. More front stance techniques. All forms should be done with footwork, not neutral stances. BKB has evolved into modern sports boxing. The wooden dummy was designed purely for teaching acupressure striking angles. Watch pre Queensberry boxing & you will see paksao, bilsao, & garnsao along with Bon Sao techniques. This is from 30yrs researching & implementing WC & integrating western boxing, BJJ etc.
I’ve been studying ( participating) in San Soo the last few years. A “street fighting” form of “Southern” Kung Fu ! Brought to us from Grand Master Jimmy Wo. Who was disqualified from structured matches ! Because he did’nt follow set “Form” What he did was, and is taught, is learn techniques but use your head... You are the first, I’ve heard who brings these observations to light. Yes I agree totally with you. And I believe, your observations can be applied to most “styles.” It’s always dangerous to get to wrapped-up in any one form. I plan to follow you and see what other observations you might have.
Meh, I’m not impressed with Wing Chun. At trapping range, I’ll stick with Panantukan and Silat. At long range, I might not fight at all. If I end up on the floor, I’ve already made mistakes. Most importantly, the problem with Wing Chun (and especially BJJ) as we see it in modern times is the assumption that the opponent is not armed.
Alright I agree too much chi sau, it makes sense to have a lot of drilling for chi sau though otherwise you won't understand sensitivity and pressure therefore the moves won't come out. It's not the move ... It's how you think about the moves, it's not more techniques it's how you understand abd think about thembso though I think chi sau is not necessarily always a combat form for me it's necessary very much, though, sometimes when trying to trap an arm they might retreat it so obviously go in ... But if they blade you use a y step to come in and still trap both hands and strike ... that's to close inside at their imbalance point ... you either close to.the outside or to the inside you need both options ... I like that combat opening that's one of the ONLY times I personally like double chi sau ... A lot of people just run in and do it I don't at all I only use it if they retreat their arm and I wasn't in range yet I will try a y step and come right into facing position double hand chi sau or I will blade back and flank, always knew or the other ... If not I won't use my wing Chun I'll use something else. I use combat wing Chun not chi sau versions. I like JKD wing Chun was not my first art i learned tkd threw it away, then Shaolin BJJ boxing aikido then wing Chun. I fiddle with wrestling chin na and small circle jiu jitsu and jkd. But I think the forearms are good, using forearms you get to have two points of contact edge block etc it's a signature of wing Chun I like. Generally though outside if a y step to follow the retreating opponent and trap I won't ever use two hand contact in an actual fight. Ever. I just strike or block or cover and keep fighting as opposed to keep touching I keep striking blocking and trapping and covering but everything has a combat basis. But i love to close so I like to either flank or go straight into their imbalance point and close, even if I don't use Wing Chun I love to close. Modern combat - yes wing Chun is conceptual not technical and firm based in my opinion. I also think the first form teaches basis of getting moves in and not being countered and every other form tells you and people disagree ... But they are telling you HEY BREAK ALL THESE RULES NOW. That's my opinion at least. Don't be a slave I agree. Footwork is extremely important never have anything that's not active. You need active defense. Active offense. Active footwork. It's not a form. That's the problem. I think Wing Chun is NOT a form. That's my opinion. I think the firm's teach you things but that the martial art in conceptual. So I'm from Louisville Kentucky like ALI. Good points. I really like wing Chun and JKD ... SO MUCH. If you have a wooden stance it's not active ... If you do not have an active stance defense and offense if it's not active you still have too many things you don't understand in my opinion. You definitely need creative free footwork as well. You are going to change range and cover counter etc a lot so you are going to be closing and moving a lot ... So footwork is so necessary. Too much tradition ... It needs to be a balance. But I think of its concept based it will naturally fill any idea you want it to like water. ; ) And all my wing Chun targets non Wing Chun moves ... I don't learn to fight Wing Chun at all I only do that if I do chi sau. There are too many assumptions about the low elbow so I try not to learn to fight against wing Chun with wing Chun. I am not a pure striker I prefer striking but in reality I use mostly grappling generally aikido and wrestling to quick bjj no strikes and say calm down we are all friends here no problems buddy. But if I use strikes it's much like jkd wing Chun and Shaolin with some boxing, pretty much. I love Kung Fu footwork including wing chun. I love boxing and jkd footwork too. If you learn it use it! I like to go back and forth between different footwork shouldn't everyone? It won't be popular until people can use it freely and well! Then it speaks for itself! New lines new abilities ... Usefulness!
Its not just that you are only working against other WC people and I'd go beyond your 'other styles/MMA' point. 1. Get some wrestling mats, put some of them on the floor and some against the wall, put on the headgear and pad up. 2. Bring in a rugby forward that none of you has even laid eyes on, much less trained with. No martial arts training, no boxing or wrestling, just someone who likes inflicting pain and can take it as well as they can dish it out. 3. Gloves take a lot of reality out of the exercise, but I doubt that you could legally do it without them Forget 3 minute 'rounds' - 30 seconds tops, and if your student cant fight their way off that wall, that's where their training needs to take them from that point forward. I'm not talking knocking our rugby player out - I'm talking being able to handle the initial onslaught and put enough space between oneself and the attacker to be able to run if required. I believe this is especially the case for women - even with women whose technique was superior to my own, I've never gone anywhere near 100% : part of it is ingrained from an early age and part of it is respect for someone I trained with. With one particularly painful exception, none of my training partners ever tried to kick me in the groin or elbow me in the face - for obvious reasons - but I'm not sure that's the best preparation for the worst 30 seconds of one's life. Some of the keyboard warriors will laugh at the above - fine - I humbly invite them to sit in a bar for a week or so and report back on the 'martial arts techniques' they saw when the shit hit the fan. I still dont know what the appropriate defence is against someone throwing a chair at you, but that's increasingly part of the madness outside our late night venues here in Oz. Jason, you obviously spend a lot more time focusing on what works than I do, but I do know what it's like to be hit hard by 1 or more men intent on putting you on the ground and - in many cases - taking you right out of the game. Some may even buy you a beer afterward, but nothing good ever comes of a confrontation with ANYONE who spends years conditioning themselves to absorb pain, week in and week out. To assume that they need to spend months in a gym learning how to shoulder charge (or headbutt or sucker punch...) another human being is - IMO - a mistake. Thanks for the video.
The most, absolute most dangerous mistake is: not learning how to punch. I mean real punch, with your body, what I like to call "Cham Kiu engine". You're right regarding footwork, but it's not nearly as bad in a self-defense situation. What's really, REALLY bad is not being able to actually do what Wing Chun was designed to do : open a line of attack and finish a fight quickly by striking with precision and power. Too much chi sao ? no, I think it's just that some schools stop there at the chi sao exercise for some reason. There's a strange divide in the Wing Chun world, part of the schools have Gor Sao or Goh Sao (basically sparring) and part of the Wing Chun world never heard of it. I don't know why. Finally, don't follow blindly tradition, sure, but don't cast it aside either. Traditions were not made in a day, it's not a monolith, it's the sum of all the knowledge previous generations added, each putting another brick, building the house. Don't tear down the house, add your brick, then pass it to the next generation. And yeah, laziness. But it's not just Wing Chun, everyone is getting lazy now and expect to be handed everything. Oh and no pain please... yeah, right...
Poor understanding of body mechanics will make WC close to useless even when it superficially looks similar. Martin Brogaard (Sifu Martin) has some great videos on biomechanics and also dynamic but stable footwork
I have 2 black belts and years of training in JKD, Kali and WIng Chun. And I believe WIng Chun is a great foundation. But Wing Chun against another trained MMA fighter is not as effective. An MMA fighter would kill a Wing Chun fighter. Sad but true. And I love Ip Man. But those are movies.
Lack of structure. No structure no power. Utilizable Wing Chun has good structure. Poor mindset by most instructors/practitioners. They train like hippies and not fighters. You have to take the drills and techniques of WC and train them with the intensity and rigor of a boxer or Thai Boxer. And lack of field testing. Your going to have to spar, pressure test, or get in a lot of fights. Most WC instructors have never utilized it in any stressful situation, then pass it on to students as self defense. That’s like a newspaper economist who never actually worked on Wall Street or ran a business telling you how to invest.
I do Choy Lay Fut, it's way more effective than Wing Chun. Look up YT channels like "De Nittis Choy Lay Fut" or "XinHui choyleefut" Pay a good attention to their training and sparring.
Peter Y I practice wing chun, hung ga, white crane, 7 star mantis and Choi lay fut and I don’t feel any are more effective than the other, especially not “way” more... don’t forget Ho Kam Ming beat one of the best Choi lay fut and hung ga schools in Hong Kong using purely wing chun. There are too many factors and differences in people to rely on just style or form.
That's why Bruce Lee also learned choy Lee fut . Remember the 3 days of Martial arts instructions he got in exchange for teaching Cha Cha? I think his back fist is from Choy Lee Fut
So the top 5 things that are ruining Wing Chun are: clueless individuals with no cardio,the wrong assumption that because of the film hype its something special,80 % of taught W.C. is not taught with real combat scenarios,the Bruce Lee legacy ,well he himself ditched huge chunks of it,there is nobody using W.C.exclusively on M.M.A. CIRCUITS and here lies the problem. again an assumption based on TELEVISION footage,and finally few can adapt to meet an uppercut ,hay-maker or straight jab,the response is either knock out or 30 pit a pat fly swat chain punches by a weedy guy it looks terrible and inadequate, so the response is usually not ideal.
Lack of structure, and instructors that know how to teach structure. No structure = no power. Without power and root you are just arm punching and slap trapping. Get an instructor that understands structure and you will 1) have found a unicorn, and 2) will probably have effective WC.
Great talk reality can bite you in the butt .Bruce Lee always believed .in thinking out of the box I liked your talk much respect Sifu jack usmc jkd Kali , Tibetan lama Kung Fu . As they say in Marine corps you must train like the enemy . I agree nice point
You can't gauge your skill when you are wearing BOXING GLOVES!! How are you supposed to make and maintain contact, or feel your opponent's intent with boxing gloves on?? Training with gloves takes away crucial information that the opponent is sending out through his attack. You people aren't even practicing your techniques! This is another reason why I think fighting with gloves on is ridiculous and nonsensical!! This is also one of the problems with modified. You see, you are not even practicing any techniques when you box. That is not the habit you want to get into. You want to be able to make contact, and if necessary, either push the arm past center to open your opponent up for attack, or if he is a boxer, you make and MAINTAIN contact (as per Wong Shun Leung), following in his center of mass, trapping the arm and LEG, and finishing the fight quickly! Ever hear of that? It's called Loi Lau Hoi Sung, Lat Sau Jik. And you want to be able to use your techniques against any attack. But if you train with gloves on, you aren't getting that benefit from that type of training. It also helps, along with chi sau and chi gerk, to speed up sensitivity training.
You not trapping the arm of a boxer. Stop with the nonsense lmao. You think he will throw the punch and leave the arm for you to take...too many movies.
@@jamesjohnson1522 And why not? He has to RETRACT his hand to the starting position to throw another punch, right? I mean, it isn't like wing chun, that can change direction IMMEDIATELY in the middle of an attack! This is because we DON'T OVERCOMMIT OUR RESPONSE as all boxing derivatives do! So, you make initial contact (which is easy, since our hands are in the center), and when they bring back the hand back, you just MAINTAIN contact all the way, coming in, trap the arm and leg, and easily finish the fight! This is EXACTLY what the great Master Wong Shun Leung did! He fought a RUSSIAN boxer who was one foot taller than he and about 70 lbs heavier as well. He KNOCKED HIS ASS OUT WITH THREE PUNCHES! The fight you see in IP MAN between the boxer and Ip Man never happened! It DID happen though with WSL! That is the proper way to enter in on a boxer, though many do not know how to do it. But once they do, no boxer has a chance in hell against them.
To quote Bruce Lee. "If it helps you to defend yourself when you're in a fight, then you should use it. It doesn't matter where it comes from."
Bruce Lee also said wing chun is most effective used in the bathroom (1960s bathroom)
bruce lee was not jesus, stop quoting a filmstar - and use your own brain. Within the wing chun world there are much better higher graduated fighters alive today that warrant some quoting. Why not quote IP man for a change, the trainer lee owed everything and whom he abandoned for the riches in the west.
bruce lee did not invent taosim. But you all seem to believe so.
@@zoolkhan Bruce Lee surpassed Ip Man with JKD. JKD is better than wing chun
@@zoolkhan So wait a minute... you are faulting a student for leaving his teacher to pursue his own successes? HAHAHA So wait another minute.. you rather students stick by their teachers all the way to the end until he dies?!?! Sounds a bit cult like don't u think?
I remember hearing Ip Chun say that Wing Chun is a martial art based on principles not technique. He said that the techniques used in WC put emphasis on the principles, and as long as you follow the principles, then no matter what style or technique you use you are doing Wing Chun
Not just principles, but TEN CONCEPTS, that should all be used at once. This takes out ALL initial flaws and stiffness found in ALL BOXING derivative systems! It also allows the system to work properly against ALL SYSTEMS!
@@mightymeatmonsta i like your funny words
What ruins Wing Chun, is ruining any system or martial art, and that is being blind to alternatives.
It isn't even possible to ruin Wing Chun. It's complete garbage. The best way for a Wing Chun master to win a fight is to stop using Wing Chun completely. An untrained person of equal physical fitness is at a huge advantage over a Wing Chun master in a fight.
@@Jordan-Ramses It does teach the principles of body mechanics and lays footwork foundations rather quickly.
@@Jordan-Ramses sorry, what? I'm fully willing to concede that wing chun is not the best fighting system in the world. But with equal fitness, training in any fighting system is better than training in none.
@@driesvanoosten4417 - Wing Chun is all about throwing weak punches to the least vulnerable parts of the body. It's like it's specifically designed not to hurt your opponent. Yes it makes you much worse at fighting.
@@Jordan-Ramses I get the distinct feeling I'm being trolled, but I'll bite. Weak punches? I can partly go along with that. And if you would have said that many McDojos train you to only do sticky hands. Sure. There are a lot of bad gyms out there. But the least vulnerable parts of the body? Seriously? What are the least vulnerable parts of the body that wing chun teaches you to strike? I would say the least vulnerable part of the body is the ass. And no, wing chun doesn't train you to kick some one on the ass. Vulnerable parts are the throat, the temple, the side of the jaw. That's what you're trained to strike in wing chun.
Chow Gar Tong Long Sifu here. You are the first Wing Chun guy in a long time who has something interesting to say. More strength to your arm!
As a Wing Chun Instructor, the thing that changed my fighting the most was learning other arts that work well with the principles of Wing Chun. I focus on Baguazhang and Chin Na now, but you can still see Wing Chun in my movements. You need to incorporate things from other styles.
the show you are referencing is Fight Quest Sifu Jason. That was actually the last episode of the show. I like that you teach that form is only meant to be a foundation, not the focus in terms of fighting application.
Too bad it's gone, and Jimmy didn't do a video about it
Hello Sifu, with "wing Chun" being a terrific system, I believe people Make the mistake of forgetting that if you personally haven't applied it or understand it's place in combat, they will be at risk", self preservation is experience sometimes, crude but the reality of it'.
I've been saying and preaching this FOR YEARS!!!!!!! Glad I'm not the only one
Name checks out
1.) leaning backwards, instead of slightly forwards...resulting in back surgeries and knee surgeries.
2.) standing too pigeon toed...resulting in knee problems.
3.) collapsing arms, when advancing.
4.) not tucking in thumbs on all movements...a master will have an exposed thumb in a second.
5.) Not utilizing starter movements...eye gouges, knee kicks, stepping on the toe, throat chops...before engaging the midrange.
6.) poor footwork...taking too large of steps.
7.) bad habits of chi sao sparring.
8.) Not attacking at a 45 degree angle, when using dummy movements.
9.) Lazy masters, flying monkeys, and covert narcissism.
10.) crossing arms during chi sao...leaving one vulnerable to having both arms trapped.
Your comment about the flaw of traditional approach in martial arts, particulary in wing chun are precious. It becoming my enlighment to improving my endevaour in martial arts. Thx u sir
Irmansyah Ihsanul Kamil so honored to help. Thanks for watching. 🙏
"wing Chun is a system of concepts form that works in concepts limited only by your need and your imagination" true.
"If you only focus on tradition you will never be as good or relevant as your teacher and it's your teachers job to make you as good as them ... So you need to learn to stand on their shoulders and learn to think about even more things when you stand in someone's shoulders you can see farther" I heard something like that.
True.
I transmit that info I pass it down you use that info however the situation demands.
True!
Good stuff!
Bruce would be proud.
I love your open-mindedness and the fact that you're obviously very passionate and having fun.
soon to be 67, after 50 yrs of wc, your content just gave me the urge to do another video on wc misconceptions as yours typifies it.
Unless I'm mistaken, it was what Bruce Lee found was lacking in Wing Chun that drove him to develop JKD. That being said, Dan Inosanto is a good person to look to for practical application of WC.
And Sifu Dan Anderson in NYC
I believe Dan Inosanto continued training with WSL who was a great so his Wing Chun knowledge may surpass that of the late great Bruce Lee
True words as always everything needs to evolve to survive .
Be in the now learn from the past♡ Expect change yet stay focused♡ Be open minded to other martial arts but respect and know your own♡ Use what works best for you and "bleep" everything else♡ Pressure test your skills don't just belive they will work♡ Know the difference between fantasy martial arts and reality based♡ Ohh! and if all else fails, remember the lessons your Mum gave you and Myomoto Musashi♡
There is an old 70s movie name the "Prodigal Son" directed by Sammo Hung that did have a theorical explanation of Wing Chun similar and yet different from most explanations in the internet.
Aww yeah. Starring Yuen Biao.
Great movie...but a movie...every person I know of that is a wing Chung practitioner I have seen in a real fight, has gotten their asses kicked and looked to be basically flailing their arms froward until they were knocked out.
Thank you, your lessons have taught me that I spent a lot of time and money on what I believe Bruce Lee called it organized despair....
Any style, got to learn to get out if the way and redirect energy from multiple angles
Awesome video, have you read The Art of War, book of 5 Rings and be like water?
Thanks for an unbiased account of an excellent style of Martial Arts.
Main reason I've not mastered Wing Chun is not found a Sifu who looks like he knows what he is talking about. Met one "GM" who looked and talked like he'd only ever fought in the Kwan and had no real life connection to how techniques worked in live situations
I respect you made this video in hope of helping those who do not know much of Wing Chun but I strongly disagree with some of your points. I believe Chi sao is one of the things that makes wing chun great, detecting your opponents energy and being able to control and flow with it. If you do not develop this sensitivity, you'll never become a good practitioner of the art and you will be unable to effectivly manipulate an opponent in a fight.
As a long time Wing Tsun practtitioner with trainer degrees and all that shebang (not a "sifu" though) i wholeheartedly agree.
All those things, Chisao and other drills are important but please please not to get obsessed about. Chisao has a clear purpouse, never lose sight of that.
Wooden dummy has a purpouse. - but neither is the real fight.
Wing Chun (or wing tsun) is a set of concerpts - and whatever works within those concepts is valid to use.
If you ask "why" when you encounter a technique that makes no sense to you, and your teacher can or will not answer that - it is time to change the school.
I only teached my students stuff that i could explain. And yes, we also had a boxing ring - and a lot if influx from other martial arts (often people would come from karate, boxing taekwondo to our school in order to learn wing chun - OF COURSE THEY HAVE NOT FORGOTTEN THEIR PAST - we have used them, we have asked them to test us and what we know.. and if some technique would not work, we would adapt - again, alll within the conceptual frame work.
And yes, dear MMA UFC trolls, that very much included ground fighting - you actually can apply wing chun principles on the ground as well.
We dont think it is smart to seek the ground (because in self defense your attacker often has friends whom are ready to kick your head) - but if we cant avoid the ground, there is no reason to fail there. There is just lack of training.
So, hell yeah.. train against everything and anything - test yourself in a ring with a mask on and let lose once in a while.
very good advise.
br, from Europe.
Wing Chun forever.
An excellent presentation, which can be applied to many styles. Well done!
The nature of Chi Sao is base feeling an opponents physical intentions when engaging with him or her! For some of us can it be a great tool to use for grappling. It comes down to the perception of the practitioner.
You may ask Master Wong how to apply wing chun
Biljee form has ducking in the bowing section.
Basically, learning techniques that work is a good thing. You also need to develop speed, balance, endurance, strength, flexibility, quick thinking, conditioning, coordination and things like this. Then you need to practice these techniques to master them. You will then need to spar and fight so that you naturally begin to use the the things that you have learned. Too many martial arts are lots of forms and too much about following a long drawn out process. Kung Fu film training has elements of the above but the classes do not.
It's nice to finally see a wing Chun practitioner who is realistic about how to train effective martial arts. Subscribed
Well said!!! Cannot agree with you more. I feel like all WC people regardless of school or lineage should spend more time training like MMA fighters. Do some rounds on a traditional heavy bag. Let that sucker swing and see if you can keep good contact with hands and feet and with fluid footwork.
More sparring rounds with a classmate or friend that can box or kickbox. Pretty much like in this video. You find out real fast where you need work. Modern training mix with traditional training ( chi sao, wooden dummy) would improve your WC.
Side note love your intro music for this channel.
5 Things Ruining Wing Chun:
1. Not Modifying their Wing Chun
If it's not allowed to change, then it will die like all things. Everything must be capable to adapt in order to survive
Super awesome seeing a critical thinking traditional martial artist. Good talk as always!
In other words, practice Boxing & Muay Thai as well as the sport of Basketball for better active footwork for standup fighting. (Check out Micah Lancaster Basketball & his medicine ball training with the mindset of improving fast grabs & "live" moving footwork drills)
Which kung fu gets you ripped Shaolin or Wing Chun and does Jeet Kune Do count
None of them will. Working out will.
Interpretation of a martial art is base on the reception of the practitioner! A martial artist is effective when one practice until become it practical, knee-jerk reaction & natural in nature! Never letting an opponent's blows forget what he knows.
I will say in wc defense, against MMA fighters every single martial art fails and "street fighters" fail too, JKD if they're doing it right should be very similar to MMA anyway
Great video Sifu, adaptation is what will keep Wing Chun alive. Great run down of the list. Your tradition comment reminds me of what I say to people about if traditional will work in MMA and I always illustrate of how Machida in the UFC adapted his traditional style in the rink. A balance of traditional and adaptation will keep students alive in the street. Attackers are more verse these days with easily info readily available at their disposal. Traditional is good for beginners as a foundation but once they get it learning to be alive and functional is the key. Keep up with the video!
I'd like to hear sifu Mark Rasmus opinion on all this.
Good video! Basically if you are being attacked you need to respond naturally and not be thinking about styles and pure wing chun or you are giving yourself a seriously handicap, that even an un trained person doesn't have!
Rhodri Morice well said!! Absolutely.
I've heard that as well. Don't go into the wing chun stance. There is no need. I guess, as long as you have your hands basically in the center, it would still work. But the idea of having your hands OUT is to intercept the attack well before it hits you. If you move the hands even slightly out of the center, the person may be clever enough to draw your hands and open you up for attack. Or, he may be too fast. That is why boxers get hit so much! They keep their hands near the sides of the head, not giving them much time to respond to an attack since it is getting very close to the face. That is one of the advantages of having this SUPERIOR system, which takes out that fatal flaw, and many others as well, such as not over committing our response, as in all boxing derivatives, not going past center as boxers do, which causes a giant opening you can step into and exploit, or the putting of some or all of the weight on the front leg, which can cause it to be unbalanced through a pull forward. I think I would rather just give it away and be ready....
I am an old smelly man. William Cheung is my lover. I used Wing Chun position to make William ejaculate in me.
You said!!! Talk about hitting the nail on the head. I love wing Chun but I always combine it with another style. My favorite I've coined "wing-cheedo" ( wing Chun and aikido)
Good videoifu...people forget chi sao is a training tool, not fighting
my 2c is, please keep hands up, when in striking range in chi sau practice:)
Nice video! Definitely agree with some of the points raised. I believe that Wing Chun as a system, it’s being scrutinised a lot lately will undergo another evolution, but may not come out of China. One of the beauties of Wing Chun is that you’re able unlike some styles to go soft and hard at any given time or the same time even . The point you raise about people’s interpretations of Wing Chun varying a lot, the only way to know if the style you’re learning works effectively? As you quoted Ip Man “go out and try it..” Only then will you truly know if the path you’re choosing is in the right direction, if not re-assess what is useful and disregard what is not (paraphrasing Bruce Lee there but you get what I’m saying lol). I think the term ‘adapt and change’ will also become more common in future Wing Chun training as time goes on much like the term ‘absorb, redirect and deflect’. Wing Chun is and always will always belong to the Chinese. Outside of China however is where different interpretations of the art will make for more unique styles in future. One final quote “Your Wing Chun is not MY Wing Chun”, is very prevalent case in point 😎👍🏾
I think the show you were thinking about was "Fight Quest" from Discovery Channel.
Correct...And the group in question was Ling Ting.
@@game9848 That chapter was embarrasing.
One or two chapters before Muay Tjai guys had had to slow down and play nice to not make both FQ contendants look bad, and with the Wing Chun guys it was the show guys who had to play at 20% to not make their hosts look like fools. The boxer guy was smashing his WC opponent's head away from his neck.
@@LINKchris87 I love Wing Chun; it needed a wake up call. I would love to add Sanda and Shuai Jia. However nobody teaches that in my area. So I'm adding some elements of Muay Thai and Judo. I'm from Leung Shung lineage; however I'll admit the guys from Wong Sheng Leung have the best fighters...
@@game9848 I trained WC for a few years and I think there are good things to learn from it, but I have found that I feel more comfourtable doing Sanda, Judo or just plain boxing^^
I get your point on responsibility of the teacher to help student elevate their skill, however I don't want to be as good as Bruce Lee or Ali. I want to be the best I can be.
I think that in boxing we use some kind of Chi Sao. When we fight on the inside , we get used to feel the gloves of our opponent go for a punch.
Thanks for answering the Tan Sau question and more.
My school doesn’t teach us chi Sao outside basic explanations
So how many hours of chi Sao is ok?
In HK they build up to 8 hrs. Maybe it goes deeper than you know
Funny thing about Wing Chun vs MMA is this: Wing Chun is one style while MMA by the name itself represent MIX martial arts styles. So you can do and use any style you know cuz its mix of various style so as techniques. That is the rule of it. How about Kung Fu? PRECISELY! It's not one style but hundreds. In Wing Chun you don't do grab and take downs but in MMA the floor is yours. I experienced being carried by some one. It was just out of boredom so we played. I was somehow winning, he stepped on my feet... he carried me put me on a bench of a open hut, pressed me and hit me in the leg. So at that point I lose. We stop cuz we were having an event. It was plytime but what if it was for real right?! I win many of those playtime cuz its playtime. Punch then blocking. But the way he is was my size now I see him 3x my size.
In the film Ip Man 2 atthe boxing ring although than perticular fight scene was fictional Ip Man used a different style cus plain wing chun was not working so well. Let's be realictis people. When you fight its not merely about the style but its more ABOUT YOU! Remmeber the saying "Guns don't kill people, people kill people!"
That was a darn good video. Truth comes before tradition
Yeah,that´s so true !!!Too many WC-guys are so close-minded,it´s sad !The "traditional foodwork "and imobility brought Bruce lee to his JKD !
I really like your pragmatic approach 👍
WSL would be happy with this
Thanks for sharing your thoughts and experiences, very much appreciated♡ I liked the voice over (in this video) it reminded me of the classic kung fu movies of Chinese being dubbed in to English♡
As for alive-ness;
What Frankenchun is missing when practing "Sil Lum Tau" form for instance, is that it doesn't contain momentum; a missing piece of the puzzle.
Momentum is an important piece of information for all marital arts; Wing Chun is no exception.
Thefore when practicing SLT stationary, this doesn't mean or imply that it should also be when sparring or fighting.
As SLT contains the fighting aspects of Wing Chun minus momentum.
As sparring in a Wing Chun school (Promoting and Promulgating) it stands to reason that these should be the techniques used, instead of anything else used in the martial art world; as in a TKD class, for example doing Krav Maga will get a person expelled very quickly.
Then perhaps one sparring session, devoted to Wing Chun and another to anything goes♡
My personal biggest battle with learning Wing Chun is finding the positions to allow for optimal relaxation and power generation.
@Nicholas
Relaxation is based on the snake engine principle of Wing Chun as a Cobra just stikes from wherever possible, just maintain your balance and safe distancing stay lose and quick; remembering that action beats reaction, so keep yourself moving constantly in ways of maintaining, dominance or advantageous positions, or either controlling the distance or the opponent.
As for angling, this is just giving different poses for the opponent to look at, not being a target, by moving in and out in different ways, using feints, with the head, shoulders, hands, footwork, moving to their blind side, cutting away their possibilities to stike; whilst maintaining one's own balance and distance and simultaneously disrupting theirs; utilising slipping, bobin n weavin.
As don't get yourselve comfortable, on the contrary get busy disrupting theirs relentlessly, never giving the opponent the chance to formalise any plans against you.
This is called "general-man-ship" take command and stay in charge of the situation.
@@starshipdjs7524 Yep ! That's exactly what I've been looking into - the Snake Engine using the spine to create maximal force through body-linkage (jing) with correct spinal alignment with a fluctuation in-range ! I understand the knowledge perfectly , but I do have some previous injuries and back-issues that limit my mobility. . . Any thoughts on this ? BTW - you really know this stuff and I'm impressed with your knowledge on a deep level of shen fa.
@Nicholas; regarding your back then
1st Suggest practing single and double hip movements when deflecting and striking. There should be some video's about how to use the double hip movement here on RUclips easily enough.
Remember Bruce Lee had a serious back injury and he overcame this with his quick hip actions when punching.
2nd The "shoulder" alignment with the body is a very underrate when striking but once again not with Bruce Lee and the one inch punch.
Here now recently with the McGregor and Cowboy fight the shoulder comes in to play again.
Get strong shoulders, get in plenty of push ups whenever possible.
Keep that back of yours in alignment like stacking bones and I belive you will be okay.
Fighting is thinking on your feet, most are not trained to think on your feet fast enough and not poor skills. Most can display excellent skills when not under pressure ...that is the key failure point. Same as in real life , a PhD does not necessary fare better than someone with lesser qualified education in a free for all market place with no clear rules ....to succeed
Hey Sifu Jason,
Can I do wing chun without a wooden dummy?
I can’t afford one and don know how to build one, any thoughts?
Thanks so much!
Brian
Brian Peace while it certainly helps it’s not essential. What you can do is learn the form and the principles it teaches and practice the “air dummy”. It’s not the perfect way to go but it’s still helpful. The major thing to do in its absence is good footwork drills so that you learn to intuitively move your structure in a non-contradictory way. Most people neglect footwork training in Wing Chun except for the dummy, so if you do that you’ll continue to make progress.
Thanks so much for watching and I hope this helped. 🙏
Thank you Sifu Jason 😊
Fight Quest i think was the show u were talking about
Great video, I agree with you assessment.
Great video!
Very good video! Greetings from Brazil.
Nyah Lima thanks for watching.
I mix WC, TKD, KICK BOXING, ETC...
Everything can be effective it's all about you, timing, speed etc.
Standing there in your centerline WC stance. Waiting for things to happen. Trying to block everything coming towards you. It’s probably not going to work. Take one good shot and your getting knocked out. And then your days of sucking will be over. I love WC, but you need to be extremely careful about what you do in a fight. You need to be both deceptive and ruthless. I’m not sure you can teach that? If that’s not what you’re into, then you might as well just practice running.
It's sad that what you say isn't standard mindset. The goal of a fight is to win. It's not how you did it. It's ONLY to win. There are endless lineages in the roots of every martial art, some more than others. A very interesting thing is the internal aspect. I wonder if you have any experience with internal training in wing chun. Energy! Minimal movement with no loss of power. Great video because you are smart and not swallowed by other people's stupid conservative ideas.
Then just buy a gun. Think about it
Totally agree.
Awesome.
Very nice video
Wing Chun evolved all the way to Ip Man. For some reason since then people think that to be Wing Chun it must be the way Ip Man did it. Many people modify Wing Chun and the commentators say "that's not correct Wing Chun". I use hook punches in my training, boxing style. If my opponent controls the centre line, I can hook and overhand around the arm. Because I'm a wing chun man I can control my centre line while I do this. I use head and body movement, because testing proves it works. If anyone tells me I use these movements and techniques because my wing chun is poor, I say get in a ring with a boxer and see how your traditional wing chun works. Ip man was an innovator, why isn't innovation one of the principles of Wing Chun?
if you believe you are practicing anything in a vacuum then you are blind...Chi Sau isn't practicing fighting, it is practicing distance and feeling. Street fighting isn't wing chun, you don't use anything you have learned in class other than managing distance, hitting and not getting hit. I really fail to see the controversy around Wing chun, there is nothing controversial about blocking, and striking. I think the IP Man movies really set the entire thing back.
I wouldn't agree that people do too much chi sau I would say that they do too little and they don't do hard chi sau like it should be done.
Yeah, and that means only ONE THING! If you don't want to be a slave to wing chun, that's fine. But you MUST LEARN THE ENTIRE SYSTEM FIRST before you can modify it ( I hate that word! It is misleading!) to your likes or dislikes, your personality, even your abilities or disabilities. In this case, modified DOES NOT mean missing key elements that make it work properly, but just adjusting the system to what works best for you, be it punches, kicks, palm strikes, grappling, even locks and throws! Unfortunately, many of these modified wc guys don't do that, do they? It's sad I have to keep explaining the difference between modified and MODIFYING wing chun!
Wing Chun is crap. GTFOH.
Good video. I think that Bruce Lee would agree with all of this and I think that is why he created JKD.
First thing...WC has not progressed since early 1900's. WC came about from BKB. Double arm CS was designed to stop hooks and uppercuts only, not linear strikes. Not enough realistic sparring. Too much neutral stance positioning. More front stance techniques. All forms should be done with footwork, not neutral stances. BKB has evolved into modern sports boxing. The wooden dummy was designed purely for teaching acupressure striking angles. Watch pre Queensberry boxing & you will see paksao, bilsao, & garnsao along with Bon Sao techniques. This is from 30yrs researching & implementing WC & integrating western boxing, BJJ etc.
I’ve been studying ( participating) in San Soo the last few years. A “street fighting” form of “Southern” Kung Fu !
Brought to us from Grand Master Jimmy Wo. Who was disqualified from structured matches ! Because he did’nt follow set “Form”
What he did was, and is taught, is learn techniques but use your head...
You are the first, I’ve heard who brings these observations to light. Yes I agree totally with you. And I believe, your observations can be applied to most “styles.”
It’s always dangerous to get to wrapped-up in any one form.
I plan to follow you and see what other observations you might have.
Meh, I’m not impressed with Wing Chun. At trapping range, I’ll stick with Panantukan and Silat. At long range, I might not fight at all. If I end up on the floor, I’ve already made mistakes. Most importantly, the problem with Wing Chun (and especially BJJ) as we see it in modern times is the assumption that the opponent is not armed.
Very wise words indeed!!! :)
It is not just wing chun, it extends to most traditional Chinese martial arts.
Alright I agree too much chi sau, it makes sense to have a lot of drilling for chi sau though otherwise you won't understand sensitivity and pressure therefore the moves won't come out. It's not the move ... It's how you think about the moves, it's not more techniques it's how you understand abd think about thembso though I think chi sau is not necessarily always a combat form for me it's necessary very much, though, sometimes when trying to trap an arm they might retreat it so obviously go in ... But if they blade you use a y step to come in and still trap both hands and strike ... that's to close inside at their imbalance point ... you either close to.the outside or to the inside you need both options ... I like that combat opening that's one of the ONLY times I personally like double chi sau ... A lot of people just run in and do it I don't at all I only use it if they retreat their arm and I wasn't in range yet I will try a y step and come right into facing position double hand chi sau or I will blade back and flank, always knew or the other ... If not I won't use my wing Chun I'll use something else.
I use combat wing Chun not chi sau versions.
I like JKD wing Chun was not my first art i learned tkd threw it away, then Shaolin BJJ boxing aikido then wing Chun. I fiddle with wrestling chin na and small circle jiu jitsu and jkd.
But I think the forearms are good, using forearms you get to have two points of contact edge block etc it's a signature of wing Chun I like.
Generally though outside if a y step to follow the retreating opponent and trap I won't ever use two hand contact in an actual fight. Ever.
I just strike or block or cover and keep fighting as opposed to keep touching I keep striking blocking and trapping and covering but everything has a combat basis.
But i love to close so I like to either flank or go straight into their imbalance point and close, even if I don't use Wing Chun I love to close.
Modern combat - yes wing Chun is conceptual not technical and firm based in my opinion.
I also think the first form teaches basis of getting moves in and not being countered and every other form tells you and people disagree ... But they are telling you HEY BREAK ALL THESE RULES NOW.
That's my opinion at least.
Don't be a slave I agree.
Footwork is extremely important never have anything that's not active.
You need active defense. Active offense. Active footwork.
It's not a form.
That's the problem. I think Wing Chun is NOT a form.
That's my opinion. I think the firm's teach you things but that the martial art in conceptual.
So I'm from Louisville Kentucky like ALI.
Good points.
I really like wing Chun and JKD ...
SO MUCH.
If you have a wooden stance it's not active ... If you do not have an active stance defense and offense if it's not active you still have too many things you don't understand in my opinion.
You definitely need creative free footwork as well. You are going to change range and cover counter etc a lot so you are going to be closing and moving a lot ... So footwork is so necessary.
Too much tradition ... It needs to be a balance.
But I think of its concept based it will naturally fill any idea you want it to like water.
; )
And all my wing Chun targets non Wing Chun moves ... I don't learn to fight Wing Chun at all I only do that if I do chi sau.
There are too many assumptions about the low elbow so I try not to learn to fight against wing Chun with wing Chun.
I am not a pure striker I prefer striking but in reality I use mostly grappling generally aikido and wrestling to quick bjj no strikes and say calm down we are all friends here no problems buddy.
But if I use strikes it's much like jkd wing Chun and Shaolin with some boxing, pretty much.
I love Kung Fu footwork including wing chun. I love boxing and jkd footwork too.
If you learn it use it!
I like to go back and forth between different footwork shouldn't everyone?
It won't be popular until people can use it freely and well! Then it speaks for itself!
New lines new abilities ... Usefulness!
Ip man would be shaking his head today
Its not just that you are only working against other WC people and I'd go beyond your 'other styles/MMA' point.
1. Get some wrestling mats, put some of them on the floor and some against the wall, put on the headgear and pad up.
2. Bring in a rugby forward that none of you has even laid eyes on, much less trained with. No martial arts training, no boxing or wrestling, just someone who likes inflicting pain and can take it as well as they can dish it out.
3. Gloves take a lot of reality out of the exercise, but I doubt that you could legally do it without them
Forget 3 minute 'rounds' - 30 seconds tops, and if your student cant fight their way off that wall, that's where their training needs to take them from that point forward. I'm not talking knocking our rugby player out - I'm talking being able to handle the initial onslaught and put enough space between oneself and the attacker to be able to run if required. I believe this is especially the case for women - even with women whose technique was superior to my own, I've never gone anywhere near 100% : part of it is ingrained from an early age and part of it is respect for someone I trained with. With one particularly painful exception, none of my training partners ever tried to kick me in the groin or elbow me in the face - for obvious reasons - but I'm not sure that's the best preparation for the worst 30 seconds of one's life. Some of the keyboard warriors will laugh at the above - fine - I humbly invite them to sit in a bar for a week or so and report back on the 'martial arts techniques' they saw when the shit hit the fan. I still dont know what the appropriate defence is against someone throwing a chair at you, but that's increasingly part of the madness outside our late night venues here in Oz.
Jason, you obviously spend a lot more time focusing on what works than I do, but I do know what it's like to be hit hard by 1 or more men intent on putting you on the ground and - in many cases - taking you right out of the game. Some may even buy you a beer afterward, but nothing good ever comes of a confrontation with ANYONE who spends years conditioning themselves to absorb pain, week in and week out. To assume that they need to spend months in a gym learning how to shoulder charge (or headbutt or sucker punch...) another human being is - IMO - a mistake. Thanks for the video.
Muy.bien eselente.maester
The most, absolute most dangerous mistake is: not learning how to punch. I mean real punch, with your body, what I like to call "Cham Kiu engine".
You're right regarding footwork, but it's not nearly as bad in a self-defense situation. What's really, REALLY bad is not being able to actually do what Wing Chun was designed to do : open a line of attack and finish a fight quickly by striking with precision and power.
Too much chi sao ? no, I think it's just that some schools stop there at the chi sao exercise for some reason. There's a strange divide in the Wing Chun world, part of the schools have Gor Sao or Goh Sao (basically sparring) and part of the Wing Chun world never heard of it. I don't know why.
Finally, don't follow blindly tradition, sure, but don't cast it aside either. Traditions were not made in a day, it's not a monolith, it's the sum of all the knowledge previous generations added, each putting another brick, building the house. Don't tear down the house, add your brick, then pass it to the next generation.
And yeah, laziness.
But it's not just Wing Chun, everyone is getting lazy now and expect to be handed everything. Oh and no pain please... yeah, right...
I so agree
Poor understanding of body mechanics will make WC close to useless even when it superficially looks similar.
Martin Brogaard (Sifu Martin) has some great videos on biomechanics and also dynamic but stable footwork
Wing Chung is not the solution.
But def an essential part of your MMA game..
I have 2 black belts and years of training in JKD, Kali and WIng Chun. And I believe WIng Chun is a great foundation. But Wing Chun against another trained MMA fighter is not as effective. An MMA fighter would kill a Wing Chun fighter. Sad but true. And I love Ip Man. But those are movies.
Amen!
Lack of structure. No structure no power. Utilizable Wing Chun has good structure. Poor mindset by most instructors/practitioners. They train like hippies and not fighters. You have to take the drills and techniques of WC and train them with the intensity and rigor of a boxer or Thai Boxer. And lack of field testing. Your going to have to spar, pressure test, or get in a lot of fights. Most WC instructors have never utilized it in any stressful situation, then pass it on to students as self defense. That’s like a newspaper economist who never actually worked on Wall Street or ran a business telling you how to invest.
The thing ruining Wing Chun is the practitioners.
Wing chun was always a mess. It's practitioners make it even worse.
I do Choy Lay Fut, it's way more effective than Wing Chun.
Look up YT channels like "De Nittis Choy Lay Fut" or "XinHui choyleefut"
Pay a good attention to their training and sparring.
Peter Y I practice wing chun, hung ga, white crane, 7 star mantis and Choi lay fut and I don’t feel any are more effective than the other, especially not “way” more... don’t forget Ho Kam Ming beat one of the best Choi lay fut and hung ga schools in Hong Kong using purely wing chun. There are too many factors and differences in people to rely on just style or form.
That's why Bruce Lee also learned choy Lee fut . Remember the 3 days of Martial arts instructions he got in exchange for teaching Cha Cha? I think his back fist is from Choy Lee Fut
@@SwayNV speaking of Ho Kam Ming, his student Augustine Fong added Xing yi foot work into wing chun. He admitted it in his 2010 annual seminar
Yes, Yes, YES!
Bruce Lee has developed his own hybrid system called Jeet Kune Do
But it's funny how toward the end he shut his jkd school down and was planning on going back to finish his WC training in Hong Kong.
So the top 5 things that are ruining Wing Chun are: clueless individuals with no cardio,the wrong assumption that because of the film hype its something special,80 % of taught W.C. is not taught with real combat scenarios,the Bruce Lee legacy ,well he himself ditched huge chunks of it,there is nobody using W.C.exclusively on M.M.A. CIRCUITS and here lies the problem. again an assumption based on TELEVISION footage,and finally few can adapt to meet an uppercut ,hay-maker or straight jab,the response is either knock out or 30 pit a pat fly swat chain punches by a weedy guy it looks terrible and inadequate, so the response is usually not ideal.
Sorry, but what’s ruining Wing Chun is Bjj, Muay Thai, boxing, and wrestling...not to be disrespectful , but that’s reality...
Lack of structure, and instructors that know how to teach structure. No structure = no power. Without power and root you are just arm punching and slap trapping. Get an instructor that understands structure and you will 1) have found a unicorn, and 2) will probably have effective WC.
Aways losing in MMA fights.
Great talk reality can bite you in the butt .Bruce Lee always believed .in thinking out of the box I liked your talk much respect Sifu jack usmc jkd Kali , Tibetan lama Kung Fu . As they say in Marine corps you must train like the enemy . I agree nice point
You can't gauge your skill when you are wearing BOXING GLOVES!! How are you supposed to make and maintain contact, or feel your opponent's intent with boxing gloves on?? Training with gloves takes away crucial information that the opponent is sending out through his attack. You people aren't even practicing your techniques! This is another reason why I think fighting with gloves on is ridiculous and nonsensical!! This is also one of the problems with modified. You see, you are not even practicing any techniques when you box. That is not the habit you want to get into. You want to be able to make contact, and if necessary, either push the arm past center to open your opponent up for attack, or if he is a boxer, you make and MAINTAIN contact (as per Wong Shun Leung), following in his center of mass, trapping the arm and LEG, and finishing the fight quickly! Ever hear of that? It's called Loi Lau Hoi Sung, Lat Sau Jik. And you want to be able to use your techniques against any attack. But if you train with gloves on, you aren't getting that benefit from that type of training. It also helps, along with chi sau and chi gerk, to speed up sensitivity training.
You not trapping the arm of a boxer. Stop with the nonsense lmao. You think he will throw the punch and leave the arm for you to take...too many movies.
@@jamesjohnson1522 And why not? He has to RETRACT his hand to the starting position to throw another punch, right? I mean, it isn't like wing chun, that can change direction IMMEDIATELY in the middle of an attack! This is because we DON'T OVERCOMMIT OUR RESPONSE as all boxing derivatives do! So, you make initial contact (which is easy, since our hands are in the center), and when they bring back the hand back, you just MAINTAIN contact all the way, coming in, trap the arm and leg, and easily finish the fight! This is EXACTLY what the great Master Wong Shun Leung did! He fought a RUSSIAN boxer who was one foot taller than he and about 70 lbs heavier as well. He KNOCKED HIS ASS OUT WITH THREE PUNCHES! The fight you see in IP MAN between the boxer and Ip Man never happened! It DID happen though with WSL! That is the proper way to enter in on a boxer, though many do not know how to do it. But once they do, no boxer has a chance in hell against them.