@@mslaurateague You are so blessed to have teaching like that from early on in your walk. I just really discovered him a few years ago after growing up in church. The years I missed out on! But better late than never I guess!
Wrong. False shepherding movement wreaked havoc amongst tens of thousands of churches with authoritarian abuse. Also see Princes link to Branham. Please stop following these men.
As someone who separated from IHOPKC when the allegations came out, as someone who has struggled with hurt from the charismatic movement and those under Wimber’s ministry, this video brought some healing and clarification to me. Thank you.
I am glad for you to find healing in Jesus. I ve been a charismatic for 47 years from atheism. Charismatic Christianity is the gifts of the Holy Spirit AND the fruits. I m not into weird stuff like some Christians are. We all need discernment to know what is of the Holy Spirit and what is of the dark spirits. ☝️🙏✝️💕 Maranatha !
Derek was BALANCED -he cautioned us as at the rise of certain prophetic movements, saying “The Word of God is your guarantee.” How often I have returned to his simple counsel. Derek taught us to JUDGE words of prophecy and demonstrated and discipled how this should be done. I am deeply GRATEFUL for his humble, powerful teachings; he was my spiritual Father.
REPORT CHURCH ABUSE LIST OF LEADERS, WAS CREATED OVER MIKE BICKLE, RICK JOYNER, VINEYARD, along with Foursquare, "Assassins (assemblies) of their god" abuses, Dogma, deception, spiritual abuse period. David Wilkerson was #1, then Dr. James Dobson it was a big list, plus took Media. Derek Prince, was a Jewel and Gem one of the Best Teachers in and on the Word=Bible he was a man of Prayer, and Repentance, learned alot from Derek Prince. The above ministries would have NEVER gone through the Bible completely once from Birth to Death, people's time and money just went to build M. Bickle Bank Accounts, Real Estate, all Businesses created, God didn't get a dime or penny. Leonard Ravenhill, Arthur Aaron Katz (he wrote True and False Prophets), A.W. Tozer, George Mueller, D.L. Moody, John Paul Jackson true (JPJ knew about IHOPrayer abuses a year before he died). People weren't researching all these false ministries, and lining up with Bible. It was preying on the people not praying for. People weren't judging fruit weighing by BIBLE! Much of these dead dead men speaking to dead Audience. Grew up in false church institute learned nothing had to read Bible on own, Derek Prince excellent teacher!
Like putting insurrectionists back into our White House because you claim he's going to support Christianity. Say yes to democracy and No to authoritism. We have no kings, or dictators in America. We are a DEMOCRACY!
Derek Prince teachings came to us in a time that we mostly needed it. He was such a fine man of God. My husband and I are forever grateful for opening our eyes in many aspects of our walk.
We were in the Vineyard movement for several years and served on leadership team for one for 7 years. One thing I noticed was that deliverance was believed in but rarely practiced and certainly never taught from the pulpit or room made for that ministry openly to the congregation, We do deliverance out of our home now and our current church is similar, though they have begun a class on deliverance at their college-level bible school...a new beginning. Derek Prince was the first person I learned the most about deliverance from. He did mass deliverances in churches and literally hundreds or thousands of believers at a time would be set free from demons DURING the popularity of the teaching that Christians could not be demonized. Today we have more demonized believers than probably at any time in history - who knows, but it is my experience that so much trauma and evil has happened to so many believers since the 1960's that three generations of believers need deliverance more than they need "inner healing" and equally need physical healing. Jesus intended His followers to get all of this at the time they are born again or shortly after - physical healing, deliverance from demons, water baptism and baptism of the Holy Spirit with speaking in tongues becoming their most critical supernatural gift for the journey with Christ.
LOVED "Today we have more demonized believers than probably at any time in history - who knows, but it is my experience that so much trauma and evil has happened to so many believers since the 1960's that three generations of believers need deliverance more than they need "inner healing" and equally need physical healing. "
Brother Derek Prince finished well. There are few nowadays about whom we can say that. He was singular and unique in his calling, his conversion, his understanding of Scripture and clarity of teaching. I listen to him still. Lance Lambert as well. Both of blessed memory.
Well done Josh for bringing sound teaching on these issues. 1 Thessalonians 5: 21. We need to be Christians who are moving in the Word and the Spirit. RT Kendall and Derek Prince should be recommended and read. They have much to offer us.
On Impact Radio in South Africa, we have his teachings every morning. I am so blessed to listen to him for many, many years. Just love his teachings. It is like being cleansed by the word of God every morning.
Dominique, I am curious as to why you keep posting that Derek Prince died over 20 years ago. Please share why you are posting that more than twice here.
Derek Prince's teachings are even more relevant today than they were in the 80s and 90s. We need more Bible teachers of his humility, knowledge of the Word and spiritual insight in the body of Christ. I am grateful that I got connected to his teachings early in my walk. I got to meet and visit with Derek once and Ernie Gruen several times. Memories I treasure.
Im so pleased to learn that Derek Prince mentioned and acknowledged Ernie Gruen in this matter and supported him with a vote of confidence. Im so proud. Mike Bickle made it sound like Ernie was going out on a limb after he died and couldnt defend himself anymore.
@@TornCurtainIJoshuaSimone I was really small, about 4 or 5 yrs when my parents took me to him for deliverance, i dont remember it. But I communicated with him a few times by email before he died.
Derek Prince was a true man of God. He married an older lady with several orphans, and stayed with her to her death. How many men would do such an noble thing?
Thank you, brother for helping me with this subject. I am the state prayer leader for Tennessee for the Intercessors for America ministry. I have strongly wanted to guard and guide my intercessory encounters with the Holy Spirit. This has helped me. We utilize the teachings of Derek Prince heavily and rely on a great deal of his guidance.
Thank you, Tom, for sharing this. I'm 74 and begain my new life in Christ in the early 70’s. I remember Derek. He took teaching seriously as Paul did. Yes,Jesus Christ is the focus as Paul said in 1 Cor 2:1-2
Shalom Joshua Thank you for this very important production and thanks for including Derek Prince's warning about IHOPkc. May God bless you and bless you mightily.
I have always thanked God with all my heart for John Wimber ministry. The Lord lead me to his conferences in Brighten two or three times . The Holy spirit touched me each time and I was to ministered by his ministry team the Lord delivered and healed me. Through this ministry my marriage was saved, my sanity, relationship with my children. And most of all i was set free from my suicide thoughts. Generational. Praise God for the wonderful good that God brought out of John Wimbers ministry. I have also followed Derek Prince for many years. And KNOW IT IS RIGHT WE NEED TO STAY IN TRUTH.
John Wimber was a one of a kind type of guy. I doubt we will ever see another like him. Thank you for sharing the impact he had on your life. Powerful testimony 🙌
When people go to extremes like I have seen down through the years in independent churches and Charismatic fellowships people don't stick to the fundamental of sound doctrine and get off into error because they always want to hear something new.
I was at the Derek Prince conference in October 1988 that he mentioned in the letter that was just released (the conference on the end times in Kansas City--actually Overland Park). It was a rather small gathering in the smaller hotel meeting rooms. At that time I didn't understand much of what he was saying, but it began my study of eschatology...and I am now well-versed on the subject (and took Jewish Studies at Moody since then). Derek was a major influence on my life. I have given away scores of copies of the book he wrote about his first wife Lydia (Appointment in Jerusalem--an amazing book). I moved to Overland Park from CA 9 years later, but never actually got involved with IHOPKC or Mike Bickle's church. I did listen to the so-called prophetic history. I wish that I had known about this letter years ago. I also read a good portion of Ernie Gruen's report on KCF several years ago. I didn't know how much to believe on either side.
@@dominique10640 What is your point? He was a wonderful teacher and his teaching lives on. His wisdom continues to help anyone who stills listens to his messages. And this letter sheds important light on the Mike Bickle situation.
I thank God for both Derek Prince and Mike Bickle. Even though I'm saddened by Mike's moral failure I've learnt much from his teachings as well. His book "passion for Jesus" has been life changing for me which I will always be grateful. All in all God's Word is the standard for all teachings and subjective experiences and Derek Prince always emphasize this.
Thank you for sharing this. Mike has done some things to change my life as well. Despite his failings he has impacted my life and Gods used him to influence me
Fascinating. Despite my extensive involvement at KCF throughout most of the '80's, I had no idea of Derek Prince's visit or input there. (Perhaps out of town the week he spoke?) So, everything you've presented here is new territory for me. And, I wholeheartedly agree with your commentary throughout. Without a heart set on truth no one will stand against the wiles or the devil. Conversely, if we call upon Him in truth, He's always right there (Ps. 145:18)!
I see a pattern when guys like Derek Prince and David Pawson tried to bring correction to ihopkc they were dismissed. They would then not be invited to come back. And i would guess they wouldn't want any talk of these guys either. A familiar trick in the Charismatic church is to sweep things under the rug and pretend certain things didn't happen. I'm sure this is what happened with Derek
I never got a chance to ask you what you think about ihopkc continuing their ministry. I am still sitting with the lord on this one. But would love to hear your thoughts?
@@TornCurtainIJoshuaSimone The reason that judgment hasn't begin as promptly as some of us would like is because God has been fearfully working a sifting process in the IHOPKC institution. Those involved--and especially those in leadership there--have been required to choose sides, as things have played out. (Truth, or loyalty to the "ministry vision?") Many have been complicit, likely to varying degrees. Sadly, some of that complicity has involved similar sinful activity. (I started to name names, but those who follow this story closely already know the players.) Mike liked to built a leadership team that shared with him in compromise, and that complicity served as terrific insulation for him for decades. These last several months have been the moment of truth for a great many people. Repentance would have involved the liquidation of financial assets, distributing those resources to perform true ministry to those who have been victimized, in the spirit of Is. 58., and a full confession and disclosure of sin. "Oh that there were one among you who would shut the gates, that you might not uselessly kindle fire on My altar! I am not pleased with you, says the LORD of hosts, nor will I accept an offering from you (Mal. 1:10)."
Keep preaching brother 👍 I grew up in a very conservative church And HS forced me into the charismatic movement ( starting with tod Bentley) It's been 20yr now And Derek has been an amazing secondary guide - HS being first ;) And everything you have said rings truth in my spirit and confirms what HS is showing me 🙌 Bless you bro👊
THANKS. Bless you Brother and your family. Still so disappointing Mike hasn't confessed anything Publicly yet to the overall MEDIA. We will keep praying.
Mike Bickle and Robert Morris should be in prison for the crimes they committed against children, young girls. Pray for justice. Prison was good for Jim Bakker, I believe it could have a positive effect on these 2 narcissistic predators. I'm sure there are others. It is time to clean house in the Christian faith, Charismatic and otherwise. Let it begin and sweep through the churches throughout the land. Time is too short for the foolishness and sin allowed in, repentance paramount. Only those without spot or wrinkle for Our Lord Jesus Christ.
I attended a church in the '80s which was influenced by the Florida 5 to be a covering/shepherding church, and became an abusive church. When the covering apostles, etc. tried to correct our leader, our leader just dissed them. So our leader claimed to be under authority, but really wasn't, and never did fully apologize to the hundreds of people he hurt before he died. Our church had a "reputation for being alive" back then (like in Sardis), but what would Jesus have said? Because they didn't repent and reconcile with those who were hurt, the church has been completely dead ever since. Our church leader taught strongly that a Christian cannot have a demon, so he figured that if he was angry at people it was justified and couldn't be demonically originated, which James 3 directly refutes. A church split even happened. I discovered during that time that demons really do influence Christians' thoughts and desires, and can even make Christians sick. Derek Prince was boldly saying at the time that evil spirits definitely can affect Christians below their skin, which I always will appreciate! He took the heat for telling the truth, and was shunned by many for taking that stand. Regarding this version of "Israel," which I commented on under one of your recent videos, I've been wanting to say that notice how Mike Bickle and Misty Edwards have gotten credibility by LOUDLY supporting Talmudic Israel no matter what. In the IHOP prayer room, they would often have warrior sessions with warrior music supporting Israel, and coming against anything or people who wouldn't. Many thought Mike was great because of his extreme support for "Israel," which I believe is a false return by Christ rejecting people who mostly probably aren't even true descendants of Abraham. Many passages say that God will only allow the true Judaics to inhabit the land if they're obedient, which isn't happening. Just the contrary is happening, but evangelicals fully support whatever they do anyway, even severe warmongering; though, Jesus says we must be PEACEMAKERS to be CHILDREN OF GOD in Matthew 5. They don't care what Jesus said, or what the Holy Spirit is trying to say now - or what Ron Paul said. 'Christian' Zionism is like a cult that people blindly follow, and it produces bad fruit - even repels many, especially the young people. It's like reverse-evangelism and the reverse of obeying Jesus' two greatest commandments. Romans 11 will be fulfilled someday: "all Israel will be saved," but only after the "fullness of the Gentiles" happens, after the "partial hardening" of their hearts stops - which blind support for their willful sinning is postponing, which is also part of why the greatest awakening isn't happening. The main problem is OSAS, "only believe" and "it's hard to lose our salvation." IHOP taught OSAS, which allowed sin to be rampant. Mike taught one message refuting OSAS near the end, amazingly. When Misty was caught sinning, where did she say she went to? Israel. Abusive leaders and willfully sinning Christians in general often loudly support "Israel" in order to virtue signal - as if as long as they always loudly bless Israel they'll be blessed; even though, Genesis 12:3 doesn't say that, and they'll be judged by willfully sinning without fully repenting and reconciling. It's good PR though, which many use to show how virtuous they are, when in reality they are not doing Jesus' greatest two commandments.
Who were the “Florida 5”? I’ve been saved a long time and haven’t heard this phrase before…of course I am from Texas so we had our own preachers to pray for! 😂
A lot there to sift thru, but well said, and agree generally with the points. In my study of eschatology, one of the three questions that differentiate the views is: Who is Israel? There are evangelical extremes as pro Zion and antisemitism. I don’t give a blank check, however, I do believe God looks after his ppl. Are modern Jews, albeit Talmudic, secular and anti Christian, still under the eye of Jesus? My money say yes, and no to the Khazar conspiracy. Michael Brown mentioned DNA studies that say 3% has definite Semitic bloodline, 77% are partial , 20% have none. Is bloodline the #1 factor, or is commitment to preserving the Torah a higher factor? I will also add that the Jew is only 1 of the two houses within greater Israel. Joseph/Ephraim/Hoise of Israel have their own prophetic path and fulfillment to figure out which makes it more than Jew vs Gentile.
Thank you Joshua. I appreciate the humility and sound observation. I love Derek Prince. I had been in it all, but over the years kept asking "where is the fruit ?" Jesus said "Ny yoke is easy." Leave it to man to complicate things. May yhe JOY of the Lord strengthen us to soundness. Blessings
Thank you so much. I'm thinking it's time we just say we are Christians and not focus on the denomination. I feel that our fairh is being destroyed by our differences. I gave my life to Jesus in a non-denominational church, then moved charismatic. I speak in tongues and believe in the gifts of the spirit, but I'm really struggling with the division in Christianity.
Yes the christian world is divided. We do need unity because Jesus spoke often about this. But if we do not want false peace (which is deceptive) then we need to work out our differences
There are many goats among the sheep, tares among the wheat, God will do the separating when it's time, which I believe we are seeing now in the exposure of sin and crimes in the churches. Stay in His Word, look to Jesus always, He is the author and finisher of our faith. God bless you.
Wow 💯. Christian celebrities. Subjective feelings and personalities of leaders. NAR. Pride and falsehoods. So grateful God opened my eyes and I got out of this movement
Derek Prince is one of the great ones. I do not disagree with the premise of “holding on to the truth” I would say that he fell into the same trap that many do when criticizing other ministries. That is criticizing from a distance. The Apostle Paul had a vested personal interest in speaking into the churches he planted. I don’t mind calling sin, sin; and like Paul did with Peter, “confronted him to his face.” It’s not true that Wimber did not hold the prophetic responsible for their words and actions. He did bring pastoral perspective to that situation and some very good and balanced teaching. The Body of Christ, at large, miss it in many ways, on many levels. Follow the way of love…speak the truth in love…hold loosely those things that scripture is silent on…test all things, prove all things…suspect anything that diminishes the biblical revelation of Jesus, Father, and Holy Spirit. We ALL look through a glass dimly. We know in part and prophecy in part. Eat the meat, and spit out the bone!
I have the upmost respect for John Wimber. He was a one of a kind. And he did do much to bring correction to the prophetic with church discipline. What I was referring to is why he did not heed Derek Prince's warning. And years down the line had to correct the same issues
The problem here is that Derek Prince died 20 years ago, and he just sent a letter of rebuke to Mike Bickle, how did he do that? lots of things don't add up ? ? ?
Mike Bickle was around in the late 80s believing he himself was a prophet and promoting himself as a prophet. Derek Peince was alive and ministering then.
Thank you for sharing that letter with us, I recall a mention of this in one of his teachings. I gave my life to the Lord in 1979, during the Charismatic renewal at, of all places, Word of Faith, under then Pastor Robert Tilton. Filled with the Holy Spirit who gave me an insatiable desire for the Word of God and Truth. I still love Jesus and His Word/Truth. Derek Prince is one of very few i listen to. RUclips is filled with prophet wannabes, i saw the video pop up on my feed about Archangel Michael, Mike Thompson has also claimed to be caught up to the third heaven and received 3rd heaven authority, which is unscriptural. I listened to him a few times, enough to know he is "off". Thanks for what you are doing, it's needed, I'm new subscriber.
I am charismatic. But the Bible is also clear that false teachers will be displaying signs and wonders. Blows my mind how many people who don’t seem to know that.
years ago in the 80's, my church in St. Louis had a prophetic conference. Mike Bickle was one of the guest speakers. When he got up to speak, it was nothing but babble and jibberish that came out of his mouth. From that time I was leary of that KC movement. Too bad Derek Prince is not still around to address the craziness that falls out of the mouth of KK.
@@birchandmorleyHello ,The point is that if Derek Prince died 20 years ago,how could he JUST have sent a letter to Mike Bickle? Someone is saying ( the letter was sent in 1988? But KC did not start until may 1999, sa sad all the gossip and slander!
@@user-mh2xw5fk8d IHoP of KC was founded in 1999, but Mike Bickle was an established "prophet" in the 1980s. The prophetic conference in StL was in the 1980s and it was during the 80s that Derek Prince addressed his concerns that went unheeded.
This was excellent Joshua. I purchased Gruens book because it is such a fine line. I really appreciate this discussion. Derek Prince and Lonnie Frisbee are two people that I want to speak to went I enter Heaven ❤
I am blessed by your ministry Tom yes there is a lot of spiritual deception, and the Lord taught me about deliverance 44 years ago and I started with the Lord leading me to Derrick Prince's Ministry and all his teachings and it brought me comfort to know this is word founded., balanced .I understand that there must be a balance and discernment and the leaders are so susceptible to be misled and the bigger the Ministry the bigger the temptation to be deceived even under the guise of Religion. Thank you for your obedience to Father and for bringing a look into the lives and traps leaders have fallen under the guise of that it is from Father in heaven and not in alliance with Fathers word.
Thank you for your clarity and truth. I have always looked to Derek Prince's teaching and foundation for the church. There is so much confusion due to the wrong Biblical interpretation and men building building their own kingdoms.
Thank you for posting this brother, this is absolutely timely for the church right now. I absolutely love brother Derek Prince, I partner with his ministry and listen to a lot of his teachings, and I've never been grieved by his ministry.
2 Chronicles 7:14 English Standard Version 14 if my people who are called by my name humble themselves, and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sin and heal their land.
I remember visiting IHOP. I felt the prayer room was not very deep. It was about angle deep. I went to one of the services and I felt like my guts were being twisted inside out. I couldn’t understand but I knew something was very, very wrong. Now it’s all coming out. It’s sad. The 24-7 concept of prayer is great, but if they are off From the Word of God It won’t last.
Thank you for sharing this information! This confirms my concerns. It’s helpful to hear a longstanding trusted voice such as Deric Prince saw through the facade so early on.
One of the first Christian books I purchased as a very new Christian in 1973 was Derek Prince's Foundation Series... seven small books going over the fundamentals of Christian faith and practice. That and Hobart Freeman's "Deeper Life in the Spirit" were helpful.
I understand your heart to uncover misconduct at IHOP and FOTB . Derek Prince had good fruit but Ernie is not a person to use as he was in sin with his secretary and in just a short time was exposed.
Thank you and I'm happy to hear this message from a "charismatic",' cause others who expose false teaching often also condemn christian supernaturel manifestions. Stepping oiut of the charismatic movement can make one lonely, eventually leaving spiritual stuff behind to avoid furher confusion. Yet we can trust God as our precise surgeon to cut out any false spirituality, so that in the end only sound doctrine and Holy Spirit gifts remains.
I’m so glad you have spoken about Derek prince so many preachers not preaching the gospel I saw Derek prince at Malvern here in the uk he was powerful but simple in his preaching i watched his video on being delivered from demons a power message I’ve got his book where he talks about his life with his first wife Lydia I will always say Derek prince was a true Christian man who spoke the truth
First of all let me say that I love the teachings of Derek Prince. And thank you Joshua for everything you are doing to try to get the Charismatic movement back into orbiting around the word and the spirit. But before putting Derek up on too high of a pedestal, I think it is important to further note that he was one of the 5 key figures/leaders/initiators/propagators of the very unbiblical "Shepherding Movement" which trapped many believers nationwide into a cult like submission to leadership, where in some instances, people's every move, every vacation, every change of job had to submitted to leadership for approval. Thank God that Derek Prince confessed to this and forsook it, as you mentioned, but it had its lingering effect, in his waning influence on some Charismatic circles. He was considered old guard, and old wineskin in certain Charismatic streams, and many people whose lives had been badly affected and in some cases devastated, wanted nothing to do with him, Bob Mumford and others after their false teachings and practices were uncovered and exposed. David the psalmist rightly said in Psalm 130:3-4 3"If You, Lord, should mark iniquities, O Lord, who could stand? But there is forgiveness with You, that You may be feared." I've said it before that we don't need any human heroes. I also think it is healthy to go into greater depth regarding the shepherding movement, so that history doesn't repeat itself.
Hello dear Joshua. I did acknowledge that you acknowledged it. Forgive me if I wasn't clear. For this new generation for which we have hope for the future I was opining that it would be good to show just how bad it was and get into a bit more detail. Many in the Charismatic movement were not so keen on receiving advice from Derek at that time. His adherents were much less after the shepherding movement was exposed. I just don't think it was as simple as people not listening to him. Yes he confessed and repented many times and was honest and contrite about that failure. He was definitely an example to follow in many ways.
I appreciate you sharing the letter from Derek Prince. The only problem is that there is not one specific thing mentioned that was untrue. I think you need to be more clear about what is untrue about the prophetic history or other issues.
Derek Prince's letter was not specific to speak to individual words or practices at ihopkc. However i feel all his conclusions are valid. Derek Prince was of high character and would have not put his name to something what wasn't true. However i share your disappointment that he didn't go into greater detail. However since the ministry has at ihopkc has fallen apart i'm sure it even matters
The famous comet was one thing that I researched. It was supposedly never mentioned by any news source before May 7, 1983, which was the beginning of Mike Bickle's famous 21-day fast that kicked off their whole prophetic journey. Supposedly Bob Jones brought in a newspaper about the comet on the first day of the fast May 7 (which they called the Solemn Assembly that Gabriel had supposedly spoken to Bob and Mike about). Scientists had discovered the comet a couple of weeks earlier, but Mike and Bob Jones said that was AFTER Bob Jones' prophecy about a comet to confirm the fast. Again, that newspaper he brought to the fast would have been on May 7. But I found an archived copy of the New York Times from May 6, 1983 discussing that very comet. So if another newspaper had printed a story about it before May 7, there may have been other papers that had published it even before that. This comet is also tied up very closely with Howard Pittman's testimony about the "announcement in the sky" which he said would occur on May 7 of that year. He never says that it is a comet (but what else would it be)? But his booklet Placebo says that May 7 and the announcement in the sky is when Jesus will begin spewing forth the Laodicean church from his mouth (which doesn't really connect with Mike Bickle's fast). Mike Bickle took it to be confirmation of his 21-day fast starting on May 7. Mike didn't read the booklet until Nov 15, 1983--some random lady sent it to him--and there was a prophecy by Bob Jones that he would get confirmation on Nov 15 that would cause him to never doubt the fast--and the promise of revival due to the fast--again in his life. Mike Bickle took that as booklet as his confirmation. The beginning of that so-called revival was, Mike said, the Toronto blessing. But I don't think that is what they had in mind, because Toronto did not lead to a sweeping revival where thousands or hundreds of thousands got saved. It was more termed a church renewal and had many questioning. And now IHOP is defunct. Seeing that the New York Times wrote about the comet on May 6 made me doubt the veracity of the comet story. I realize that is only one day early, but the whole point was that is would be announced on May 7 (the announcement in the sky). If no one knew about it until May 7, that would be different.
@@TornCurtainIJoshuaSimone Thanks, Joshua. I appreciate your videos so much. ONE OF THE BIGGEST FAILED PROPHECIES: From the beginning of the KC Prophets, one of the KEY prohecies was about Pat Bickle, Mike Bickle's invalid brother... a Bob Jones' prophecy that Pat was going to be healed and revival would break out (including healing revival). When that didn't happen and Pat died on May 5, 2007, they edited the prophetic history to take that prophecy out. That should have been a HUGE RED FLAG to everyone who knew about that prophecy. I didn't know about this healing prohecy of Pat until pretty recently, because the more recent Prophetic History that I listened to didn't have it. Note: Last year on May 5, 2023, the anniversary of Pat Bickle's death, I dreamt about many, many cars filled with IHOPers leaving IHOPKC permamently. I didn't know the date of Pat's death until I did research about my dream, the date May 5, and IHOPKC. After the news came out about Mike Bickle's sins, I began to think of that dream as the death of IHOP.
The comet was never supposed to announce the beginning of the fast. It was supposed to be a sign, that’s all. May 7th was already given to both Mike and Bob completely separate from the comet.
Did you say prophetic history or pathetic history?? Anyway I go to a chruch that a number of pastors older were on Ernie Gruin staff in 80s and early 90s and they agreed while Ernie was on to something truthful his efforts was motivated in Jealousy. Mike's ministry sky rocked almost over night while a larg number of Ernies congregation left to go to KC Fellowship. The AG chruch I grew up in my Pastor who became fairly well known I suspect he was jealous as well as he would reference " the church of the white horse rider" he would always say it in a mocking belittling way. I just recently heard an older semon where he made that statement then I remembered him saying that frequently. In all fairness it must be noted at the time Ernie put out his propaganda about KC Fellowship he himself was in sexual sin and from what I understand he repented later. I thinks it's only fair to mention that as the documents is on the internet.
AMAZING, DEREK PRINCE DIED 20 YEARS AGO, AND HE JUST SENT A LETTER OF REBUKE TO MIKE BICKLE? ? THE ATTACK ON MIKE BICKLE CAME AFTER HE GATHERED 6 MILLION PRAYER WARRIORS FROM AROUND THE WORLD TO FAST AND PRAY FOR ISRAEL..
Bro, your videos are getting so good!! I really appreciate the way you are keeping sound biblical doctrine at the center of your ministry. Many blessings my friend 🔥✝️
I highly respect Derek Prince and grateful for his ministry and warning. Of course if heeded it may have helped avoid some of the ihop KC issues. BUT, I’m not convinced Derek’s warning had any bearing on Mike’s personal moral falures and sin. I think it also fair to acknowledge years after the Gruen document was released, he and many of the others who signed off on it retracted their position against KCIHOP. And sadly, Gruen had a moral failure of his own. I don’t believe doctrinal accuracy is a guarantee someone will also morally pure.
Dr. Andy Woods, pastor Sugarland Baptist Church in Sugarland TX. A former lawyer and except bible teacher in a calming manner digging into the Word of God. I live. In New England but after much searching discovered Dr. Woods and now claim him as my alternative pastor on the net.
I really appreciated this video. I’m from KC and have always wondered about IHOP. That said, I just got introduced to the charismatic world a couple years ago and have slowly been learning to navigate and weigh issues like you’ve mentioned here. I have already seen some of the issues you mentioned and this really helps me have a better perspective on all of it.
Warning: Don't turn Derek Prince into more than what he did. He was head of the Sheparding Movement around 1976 out of Orlando. Their name was Christian Growth Ministries along with Bob Mumford and Charles Simpson. They raised up a strict set of rules on Home Church, where each leader marched to the orders of the next higher leader etc. The outcome was a colossal failure due to abuses of all kinds. They closed the church/company when the abuse was reported. Only Simpson and Mumford issued written apologies. Derek said nothing. Many people were hurt deeply by their rules. Spiritual and physical abuse deserve jail time if found guilty.
Joshua, I like your website. I've greatly admired Derek Prince for decades. And I share your reservations about the current charismatic movement run amok. I think you are painting the charismatic movement in just one or two colors only however. And doing so unfairly. I was watching the ihop situation as it unfolded into excess. As you correctly point out, ihop then put itself (though we now know not honestly) under Wimber's umbrella. All this wasn't as clear-cut then as you describe it today. Nobody had ever seen an ihop-type house of prophets before to my knowledge. Wimber took them on in an effort to bring them back from excess into at least a more mainstream fold. This is the same thing he did with other groups to help them consolidate or find their way back to orthodoxy; Church of England churches, unaligned charismatic groups, etc. Wimber allowed things to proceed for awhile in what turned out to be something of a "fruit test" for ihop. When ihop wouldn't follow through though, Wimber disassociated them from Vineyard. Hindsight is 20/20; in 2024 it's easy to forget what Wimber actually did. To fault him for not perfectly handling a situation no one had seen before, smacks of the "Discernment Ministries" today who blame every leader in the last 100 years for every misconduct and even blasphemy. Even Billy Graham! Wimber perfect? I'm sure not. However, much good came through Wimber when all this was happening. To paint Wimber as a Mike Bickle is I think a smear on a good man's name, who ran a good race and through whom we are still eating much good fruit. Bickle gave no benefit to my family. Wimber on the other hand laid the foundation (which is Christ), that allowed us to raise four children, now married, in upper 30s to 40s, giving us a total of 17 grandchildren, with everyone orthodox in their christianity and all faithful to the Lord to this day.
Just to be very clear. I have the upmost respect for John Wimber and his ministry. The things John Wimber had accomplished will most likely never be repeated. He was a one of a kind. However i think they could have heeded Derek warnings. I do not want to paint all charismatics with the same brush. But as someone who has spent all 43 years in the Charismatic movement. Great reform is necessary. The next great revival will not come through the modern day charismatic movement. We need a shift in my humble opinion toward scripture, the Gospel and keeping Jesus Christ at the center of it all. Joel says in the last days God will pour his spirit out on all flesh. We need a WORD and SPIRIT movement in the next phase of Christianity
@@TornCurtainIJoshuaSimone Thank you. I heard John Wimber call many times for a Word and Spirit Body, so I think that addresses that concern. I think a case can be made that it is just as important to honor the honorable though, as it is to expose the dishonorable. I saw the honorable being dishonored. If we don't make that distinction, how will we set the boat back afloat?
@@mygyro Thank you so much for pointing this out so i could clarify. John Wimber should be honored for his great contributions to the Christian faith. He didn't make any major mistakes. And he was balanced in his approach. A word and spirit guy. I just wish he would have heeded Derek's warning.
Thank you for this message and the courage to standfast on righteousness! Good to hear someone addressing correction biblically. Concerning IHOPKC scandal, I'm wondering if anyone is addressing the spiritual component of the iniquity...i.e. the strong seducing spirits and witchcraft powers at work through the leaders?
I agree. I once was very into the prophetic and stepped back as practices and things seemed to be more on the leadership being magnified rather than Jesus and the message of the Gospel-Cross of Calvary. I found that sound biblical teaching was deviated with human error
In the last eight years, I read or listen to Derek Prince almost every day. As far as living teachers go, Ken Fish frequently reminds me of Derek Prince. Josh, I think we have some mutual friends in M.S. and J.C. Blessings!
I just came across Ken Fish teaching on RUclips these couple of days. His teaching by what I listened to is good, but his endorsement on Bethel and Bill Johnson cast a shadow on my mind. Could Josh or anyone shed some light on this? Thanks a lot and God bless.
@@huiguizhijia I think if Ken Fish was asked specific questions about things going on at Bethel my hunch is that he would have some concerns. At the same time they came from the same spiritual father in John Wimber and my guess is that Ken is trying to be graceful. Although Ken is close with Bill Johnson i haven't seen him minister at Bethel.
If the gifts are only practiced in church then it can easily become a circus act. The gifts, I believe, are to be used in every day life as we go about our business letting God guide us every day.
Here is the full letter from Derek Prince: twitter.com/Torncurtainorg/status/1790840909602373742
❤
Semper Paratus!
Many bad things would be avoided if Mike would take heed of Derek's words.
DEREK PRINCE DIED OVER 20 YEARS AGO,
I agree that Derek Prince was indeed a teacher of the century! Every Christian needs to listen to his teachings.
His ministry is growing rapidly almost two decades after his death. Check you Derek Prince You Tube Channel. I watch him almost everyday
Been listening to him for 40 years, ever since I got saved! His teachings are still relevant b/c they’re based on the Bible!
@@mslaurateague You are so blessed to have teaching like that from early on in your walk. I just really discovered him a few years ago after growing up in church. The years I missed out on! But better late than never I guess!
Wrong. False shepherding movement wreaked havoc amongst tens of thousands of churches with authoritarian abuse. Also see Princes link to Branham. Please stop following these men.
DERECK PRINCE DIED OVER 20 YEARS AGO, CHECK THE FACTS
Derek Prince keeps on the narrow road..he is a gift.❤
As someone who separated from IHOPKC when the allegations came out, as someone who has struggled with hurt from the charismatic movement and those under Wimber’s ministry, this video brought some healing and clarification to me. Thank you.
Thank you so much. Would God restore your soul completely for all you have been through (Psalm 23:3)
I am glad for you to find healing in Jesus. I ve been a charismatic for 47 years from atheism. Charismatic Christianity is the gifts of the Holy Spirit AND the fruits.
I m not into weird stuff like some Christians are. We all need discernment to know what is of the Holy Spirit and what is of the dark spirits. ☝️🙏✝️💕 Maranatha !
DEREK PRINCE DIED 20 YEARS AGO
@@dominique10640We know, but his wisdom was timeless. His teachings from and based on the Word of God endure.
Sad item it was brutally given to Report Church Abuse List OVER 24 years ago
Derek was BALANCED -he cautioned us as at the rise of certain prophetic movements, saying “The Word of God is your guarantee.” How often I have returned to his simple counsel. Derek taught us to JUDGE words of prophecy and demonstrated and discipled how this should be done. I am deeply GRATEFUL for his humble, powerful teachings; he was my spiritual Father.
Very well said my friend
My sister worked for and lived with Derek and Ruth Prince, he was the real deal he lived what he preached.
DEREK PRINCE DIED OVER 20 YEARS AGO
Derek was not 100% balanced though I respect him. Derek Prince didn't believe in women in the 5 fold.
REPORT CHURCH ABUSE LIST OF LEADERS, WAS CREATED OVER MIKE BICKLE, RICK JOYNER, VINEYARD, along with Foursquare, "Assassins (assemblies) of their god" abuses, Dogma, deception, spiritual abuse period. David Wilkerson was #1, then Dr. James Dobson it was a big list, plus took Media. Derek Prince, was a Jewel and Gem one of the Best Teachers in and on the Word=Bible he was a man of Prayer, and Repentance, learned alot from Derek Prince. The above ministries would have NEVER gone through the Bible completely once from Birth to Death, people's time and money just went to build M. Bickle Bank Accounts, Real Estate, all Businesses created, God didn't get a dime or penny. Leonard Ravenhill, Arthur Aaron Katz (he wrote True and False Prophets), A.W. Tozer, George Mueller, D.L. Moody, John Paul Jackson true (JPJ knew about IHOPrayer abuses a year before he died). People weren't researching all these false ministries, and lining up with Bible. It was preying on the people not praying for. People weren't judging fruit weighing by BIBLE! Much of these dead dead men speaking to dead Audience. Grew up in false church institute learned nothing had to read Bible on own, Derek Prince excellent teacher!
If we do not learn from history then we are doomed to repeat the same mistakes
DEREK PRINCE DIED OVER 20 YEARS AGO.
Like putting insurrectionists back into our White House because you claim he's going to support Christianity. Say yes to democracy and No to authoritism. We have no kings, or dictators in America. We are a DEMOCRACY!
Derek Prince , a stellar teacher and as solid as they come. I listen to him daily, share him often!m
DEREK PRINCE DIED 20 YEARS AGO
@@dominique10640 He’s still a stellar teacher, solid as they come and I still listen to his videos everyday, lol.
@@dominique10640 Yes he did. So what is your point.
You will learn something based on Bible
Derek Prince teachings came to us in a time that we mostly needed it. He was such a fine man of God. My husband and I are forever grateful for opening our eyes in many aspects of our walk.
He was truly a one of a kind!
I still go to Derek Prince for teaching he was amazing and all his teaching is still so relevant
DEREK PRINCE DIED 29 YEARS AGO
@dominique10640 yeah I know but his teachings are still very..very relevant today
@@dominique10640 Watch the first minute of the video. Why would you comment on a video you didn't watch?
We were in the Vineyard movement for several years and served on leadership team for one for 7 years. One thing I noticed was that deliverance was believed in but rarely practiced and certainly never taught from the pulpit or room made for that ministry openly to the congregation, We do deliverance out of our home now and our current church is similar, though they have begun a class on deliverance at their college-level bible school...a new beginning. Derek Prince was the first person I learned the most about deliverance from. He did mass deliverances in churches and literally hundreds or thousands of believers at a time would be set free from demons DURING the popularity of the teaching that Christians could not be demonized. Today we have more demonized believers than probably at any time in history - who knows, but it is my experience that so much trauma and evil has happened to so many believers since the 1960's that three generations of believers need deliverance more than they need "inner healing" and equally need physical healing. Jesus intended His followers to get all of this at the time they are born again or shortly after - physical healing, deliverance from demons, water baptism and baptism of the Holy Spirit with speaking in tongues becoming their most critical supernatural gift for the journey with Christ.
LOVED "Today we have more demonized believers than probably at any time in history - who knows, but it is my experience that so much trauma and evil has happened to so many believers since the 1960's that three generations of believers need deliverance more than they need "inner healing" and equally need physical healing. "
Derek Prince is the gift that keeps on giving.
Brother Derek Prince finished well. There are few nowadays about whom we can say that. He was singular and unique in his calling, his conversion, his understanding of Scripture and clarity of teaching. I listen to him still. Lance Lambert as well. Both of blessed memory.
I totally agree 👍
DEREK PRINCE DIED 20 YEARS AGO
@@dominique10640 Yes, he did. I'm old enough to have seen him finish well. I listened and learned from him for over 30 years.
Well done Josh for bringing sound teaching on these issues. 1 Thessalonians 5: 21. We need to be Christians who are moving in the Word and the Spirit. RT Kendall and Derek Prince should be recommended and read. They have much to offer us.
I love RT Kendall as well. I covered him on this channel.
They’re amazing!
DERECK PRINCE DIED 20 YEARS AGO
On Impact Radio in South Africa, we have his teachings every morning. I am so blessed to listen to him for many, many years.
Just love his teachings. It is like being cleansed by the word of God every morning.
Derek Prince ministries still has a major impact on the world thank God. I was in Taiwan last week and he was on national television 📺
@@TornCurtainIJoshuaSimone Seriously?!?! 😃
DEREK PRINCE DIED OVER 20 YEARS AGO
Dominique,
I am curious as to why you keep posting that Derek Prince died over 20 years ago.
Please share why you are posting that more than twice here.
I know
Derek Prince was and still is the best teacher of all time.
I can say a firm amen to that!
After Jesus. 😅
DEREK PRINCE DIED OVER 20 YEARS AGO
Derek Prince's teachings are even more relevant today than they were in the 80s and 90s. We need more Bible teachers of his humility, knowledge of the Word and spiritual insight in the body of Christ. I am grateful that I got connected to his teachings early in my walk. I got to meet and visit with Derek once and Ernie Gruen several times. Memories I treasure.
How was it meeting with Derek? Can you share a bit of your experience?
DEREK PRINCE DIED OVER 20 YEARS AGO
Im so pleased to learn that Derek Prince mentioned and acknowledged Ernie Gruen in this matter and supported him with a vote of confidence. Im so proud. Mike Bickle made it sound like Ernie was going out on a limb after he died and couldnt defend himself anymore.
I'm still jealous of you that you got to meet Ernie. And you confirmed his character. I would have loved to meet him.
@@TornCurtainIJoshuaSimone I was really small, about 4 or 5 yrs when my parents took me to him for deliverance, i dont remember it. But I communicated with him a few times by email before he died.
CHECK THE FACTS DEREK PRINCE DIED OVER 20 YEARS AGO
Derek Prince was a true man of God. He married an older lady with several orphans, and stayed with her to her death. How many men would do such an noble thing?
Thank you, brother for helping me with this subject. I am the state prayer leader for Tennessee for the Intercessors for America ministry. I have strongly wanted to guard and guide my intercessory encounters with the Holy Spirit. This has helped me. We utilize the teachings of Derek Prince heavily and rely on a great deal of his guidance.
Thank you, Tom, for sharing this. I'm 74 and begain my new life in Christ in the early 70’s. I remember Derek. He took teaching seriously as Paul did.
Yes,Jesus Christ is the focus as Paul said in 1 Cor 2:1-2
Thanks for sharing!
Jesus said He was the way, truth, and life.
Shalom Joshua Thank you for this very important production and thanks for including Derek Prince's
warning about IHOPkc. May God bless you and bless you mightily.
I have always thanked God with all my heart for John Wimber ministry. The Lord lead me to his conferences in Brighten two or three times . The Holy spirit touched me each time and I was to ministered by his ministry team the Lord delivered and healed me. Through this ministry my marriage was saved, my sanity, relationship with my children. And most of all i was set free from my suicide thoughts. Generational. Praise God for the wonderful good that God brought out of John Wimbers ministry. I have also followed Derek Prince for many years. And KNOW IT IS RIGHT WE NEED TO STAY IN TRUTH.
John Wimber was a one of a kind type of guy. I doubt we will ever see another like him. Thank you for sharing the impact he had on your life. Powerful testimony 🙌
Derek Prince stood for the truth. He is one of the best teacher of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. I
When people go to extremes like I have seen down through the years in independent churches and Charismatic fellowships people don't stick to the fundamental of sound doctrine and get off into error because they always want to hear something new.
Thank you!! Derek Prince was a solid and reputable follower of Jesus Christ.
He was such an amazing example of a Godly man
No, he was not a solid teacher.
DEREK PRINCE DIED OVER 20 YEARS AGO
How did Derek Prince just sent a letter of rebuke to Mike Bickle ? He died 20 years ago.
I was at the Derek Prince conference in October 1988 that he mentioned in the letter that was just released (the conference on the end times in Kansas City--actually Overland Park). It was a rather small gathering in the smaller hotel meeting rooms. At that time I didn't understand much of what he was saying, but it began my study of eschatology...and I am now well-versed on the subject (and took Jewish Studies at Moody since then). Derek was a major influence on my life. I have given away scores of copies of the book he wrote about his first wife Lydia (Appointment in Jerusalem--an amazing book). I moved to Overland Park from CA 9 years later, but never actually got involved with IHOPKC or Mike Bickle's church. I did listen to the so-called prophetic history. I wish that I had known about this letter years ago. I also read a good portion of Ernie Gruen's report on KCF several years ago. I didn't know how much to believe on either side.
Wow that is amazing. You had a front row seat to some of this. I'm jealous
DEREK PRINCE DIED OVER 20 YEARS AGO
@@dominique10640 What is your point? He was a wonderful teacher and his teaching lives on. His wisdom continues to help anyone who stills listens to his messages. And this letter sheds important light on the Mike Bickle situation.
Thank you for sharing Derek Prince’s letter and discussing it. It was very useful.
Glad it was helpful!
DEREK PRINCE DIED OVER 20 YEARS AGO
I thank God for both Derek Prince and Mike Bickle. Even though I'm saddened by Mike's moral failure I've learnt much from his teachings as well. His book "passion for Jesus" has been life changing for me which I will always be grateful. All in all God's Word is the standard for all teachings and subjective experiences and Derek Prince always emphasize this.
Thank you for sharing this. Mike has done some things to change my life as well. Despite his failings he has impacted my life and Gods used him to influence me
Fascinating. Despite my extensive involvement at KCF throughout most of the '80's, I had no idea of Derek Prince's visit or input there. (Perhaps out of town the week he spoke?) So, everything you've presented here is new territory for me. And, I wholeheartedly agree with your commentary throughout. Without a heart set on truth no one will stand against the wiles or the devil. Conversely, if we call upon Him in truth, He's always right there (Ps. 145:18)!
I see a pattern when guys like Derek Prince and David Pawson tried to bring correction to ihopkc they were dismissed. They would then not be invited to come back. And i would guess they wouldn't want any talk of these guys either. A familiar trick in the Charismatic church is to sweep things under the rug and pretend certain things didn't happen. I'm sure this is what happened with Derek
I never got a chance to ask you what you think about ihopkc continuing their ministry. I am still sitting with the lord on this one. But would love to hear your thoughts?
@@TornCurtainIJoshuaSimone The reason that judgment hasn't begin as promptly as some of us would like is because God has been fearfully working a sifting process in the IHOPKC institution. Those involved--and especially those in leadership there--have been required to choose sides, as things have played out. (Truth, or loyalty to the "ministry vision?") Many have been complicit, likely to varying degrees. Sadly, some of that complicity has involved similar sinful activity. (I started to name names, but those who follow this story closely already know the players.) Mike liked to built a leadership team that shared with him in compromise, and that complicity served as terrific insulation for him for decades.
These last several months have been the moment of truth for a great many people. Repentance would have involved the liquidation of financial assets, distributing those resources to perform true ministry to those who have been victimized, in the spirit of Is. 58., and a full confession and disclosure of sin.
"Oh that there were one among you who would shut the gates, that you might not uselessly kindle fire on My altar! I am not pleased with you, says the LORD of hosts, nor will I accept an offering from you (Mal. 1:10)."
@DarylWood-bi7hb thank you for sharing that my friend. You gave valuable insights. I'm leaning heavily towards your views
DEREK PRINCE DIED OVER 20 YEARS AGO
Very interesting! No wonder things went wrong. Wow, this is eye opening. Thank you young man.
Thank you for watching Pamela
DEREK PRINCE DIED OVER 20 YEARS AGO, WAKE UP
It’s all about Jesus Christ, not us. I love Derick Prince, he was a great preacher and teacher of the Holy Word.
Keep preaching brother 👍
I grew up in a very conservative church
And HS forced me into the charismatic movement ( starting with tod Bentley)
It's been 20yr now
And Derek has been an amazing secondary guide - HS being first ;)
And everything you have said rings truth in my spirit and confirms what HS is showing me 🙌
Bless you bro👊
Thank you my friend. Blessings!
Wimber seperated himself from NAR before the "Toronto Outpouring".
John Wimber certainly learned a bit from the whole Mike Bickle situation. John was a one of a kind leader
Yep!
In addition, Prince, Eddie Gruen, and even John Wimber in the Vineyard Movement.
There's been a culture of tolerance in this generation of leaders.
Jesus please open our eyes...we need the Truth.... Heal the Church ❤
The Bible is our Truth...
Not Mans word...
Gods Word ❤
Lord please heal your church ⛪️ 🙏
DEREK PRINCE DIED OVER 20 YEARS AGO, HOW DID HE JUST SEND A LETTER OF REBUKE TO MIKE BICKLE?
THANKS. Bless you Brother and your family. Still so disappointing Mike hasn't confessed anything Publicly yet to the overall MEDIA. We will keep praying.
Lets keep praying for a full repentance. I think it would bring great healing for the church if Mike does so
Mike Bickle and Robert Morris should be in prison for the crimes they committed against children, young girls. Pray for justice. Prison was good for Jim Bakker, I believe it could have a positive effect on these 2 narcissistic predators. I'm sure there are others. It is time to clean house in the Christian faith, Charismatic and otherwise. Let it begin and sweep through the churches throughout the land. Time is too short for the foolishness and sin allowed in, repentance paramount. Only those without spot or wrinkle for Our Lord Jesus Christ.
I attended a church in the '80s which was influenced by the Florida 5 to be a covering/shepherding church, and became an abusive church. When the covering apostles, etc. tried to correct our leader, our leader just dissed them. So our leader claimed to be under authority, but really wasn't, and never did fully apologize to the hundreds of people he hurt before he died. Our church had a "reputation for being alive" back then (like in Sardis), but what would Jesus have said? Because they didn't repent and reconcile with those who were hurt, the church has been completely dead ever since.
Our church leader taught strongly that a Christian cannot have a demon, so he figured that if he was angry at people it was justified and couldn't be demonically originated, which James 3 directly refutes. A church split even happened.
I discovered during that time that demons really do influence Christians' thoughts and desires, and can even make Christians sick. Derek Prince was boldly saying at the time that evil spirits definitely can affect Christians below their skin, which I always will appreciate! He took the heat for telling the truth, and was shunned by many for taking that stand.
Regarding this version of "Israel," which I commented on under one of your recent videos, I've been wanting to say that notice how Mike Bickle and Misty Edwards have gotten credibility by LOUDLY supporting Talmudic Israel no matter what.
In the IHOP prayer room, they would often have warrior sessions with warrior music supporting Israel, and coming against anything or people who wouldn't.
Many thought Mike was great because of his extreme support for "Israel," which I believe is a false return by Christ rejecting people who mostly probably aren't even true descendants of Abraham.
Many passages say that God will only allow the true Judaics to inhabit the land if they're obedient, which isn't happening. Just the contrary is happening, but evangelicals fully support whatever they do anyway, even severe warmongering; though, Jesus says we must be PEACEMAKERS to be CHILDREN OF GOD in Matthew 5.
They don't care what Jesus said, or what the Holy Spirit is trying to say now - or what Ron Paul said.
'Christian' Zionism is like a cult that people blindly follow, and it produces bad fruit - even repels many, especially the young people. It's like reverse-evangelism and the reverse of obeying Jesus' two greatest commandments.
Romans 11 will be fulfilled someday: "all Israel will be saved," but only after the "fullness of the Gentiles" happens, after the "partial hardening" of their hearts stops - which blind support for their willful sinning is postponing, which is also part of why the greatest awakening isn't happening.
The main problem is OSAS, "only believe" and "it's hard to lose our salvation." IHOP taught OSAS, which allowed sin to be rampant. Mike taught one message refuting OSAS near the end, amazingly.
When Misty was caught sinning, where did she say she went to? Israel.
Abusive leaders and willfully sinning Christians in general often loudly support "Israel" in order to virtue signal - as if as long as they always loudly bless Israel they'll be blessed; even though, Genesis 12:3 doesn't say that, and they'll be judged by willfully sinning without fully repenting and reconciling.
It's good PR though, which many use to show how virtuous they are, when in reality they are not doing Jesus' greatest two commandments.
Wow....wow....wow.... I hope people read your comments. Thank you for sharing this my friend.
Who were the “Florida 5”? I’ve been saved a long time and haven’t heard this phrase before…of course I am from Texas so we had our own preachers to pray for! 😂
Love this comment! Check out Pastor Stephen Darby! He has AWESOME teachings on Israel!
A lot there to sift thru, but well said, and agree generally with the points.
In my study of eschatology, one of the three questions that differentiate the views is: Who is Israel? There are evangelical extremes as pro Zion and antisemitism. I don’t give a blank check, however, I do believe God looks after his ppl. Are modern Jews, albeit Talmudic, secular and anti Christian, still under the eye of Jesus? My money say yes, and no to the Khazar conspiracy. Michael Brown mentioned DNA studies that say 3% has definite Semitic bloodline, 77% are partial , 20% have none. Is bloodline the #1 factor, or is commitment to preserving the Torah a higher factor?
I will also add that the Jew is only 1 of the two houses within greater Israel. Joseph/Ephraim/Hoise of Israel have their own prophetic path and fulfillment to figure out which makes it more than Jew vs Gentile.
@@mslaurateague Derek Prince, Don Basham, Bob Mumford, Charles Simpson and Ern Baxter.
Thank you Joshua. I appreciate the humility and sound observation. I love Derek Prince. I had been in it all, but over the years kept asking "where is the fruit ?" Jesus said "Ny yoke is easy." Leave it to man to complicate things. May yhe JOY of the Lord strengthen us to soundness. Blessings
We need to get back to the basics of Christianity which has simple principles
DEREK PRINCE DIED OVER 20 YEARS AGO
Wow, what a really eye opening video Josh. It's crazy how far things have gotten. Thanks again for a critical but necessary review.
Glad you enjoyed it! Thank you for all your support!
@@TornCurtainIJoshuaSimone dude, I'm learning. Keep up the great work! Blessings
DEREK PRINCE DIED OVER 20 YEARS AGO
Thank you so much. I'm thinking it's time we just say we are Christians and not focus on the denomination. I feel that our fairh is being destroyed by our differences. I gave my life to Jesus in a non-denominational church, then moved charismatic. I speak in tongues and believe in the gifts of the spirit, but I'm really struggling with the division in Christianity.
Yes the christian world is divided. We do need unity because Jesus spoke often about this. But if we do not want false peace (which is deceptive) then we need to work out our differences
There are many goats among the sheep, tares among the wheat, God will do the separating when it's time, which I believe we are seeing now in the exposure of sin and crimes in the churches. Stay in His Word, look to Jesus always, He is the author and finisher of our faith. God bless you.
One of the things I love about Derek Prince is that he publicly repented when he made a mistake. That's the best any of us can do
Wow 💯. Christian celebrities. Subjective feelings and personalities of leaders. NAR. Pride and falsehoods. So grateful God opened my eyes and I got out of this movement
Derek Prince is one of the great ones. I do not disagree with the premise of “holding on to the truth” I would say that he fell into the same trap that many do when criticizing other ministries. That is criticizing from a distance. The Apostle Paul had a vested personal interest in speaking into the churches he planted. I don’t mind calling sin, sin; and like Paul did with Peter, “confronted him to his face.”
It’s not true that Wimber did not hold the prophetic responsible for their words and actions. He did bring pastoral perspective to that situation and some very good and balanced teaching.
The Body of Christ, at large, miss it in many ways, on many levels.
Follow the way of love…speak the truth in love…hold loosely those things that scripture is silent on…test all things, prove all things…suspect anything that diminishes the biblical revelation of Jesus, Father, and Holy Spirit. We ALL look through a glass dimly. We know in part and prophecy in part. Eat the meat, and spit out the bone!
I have the upmost respect for John Wimber. He was a one of a kind. And he did do much to bring correction to the prophetic with church discipline. What I was referring to is why he did not heed Derek Prince's warning. And years down the line had to correct the same issues
The problem here is that Derek Prince died 20 years ago, and he just sent a letter of rebuke to Mike Bickle, how did he do that? lots of things don't add up ? ? ?
@dominique10640 the letter was from the 1980's
Ernest Gruen wrote an excellent book on prayer entitled: “Praying the Heart of God.”
Derik Prince is my favorite pastor. Then John paul Jackson. He also passed. I miss them so much.
Both those man are amazing examples of men of God
DEREK PRINCE DIED OVER 20 YEARS AGO
How could Derek Prince Just sent a letter of rebuke to Mike Bickle ? he died 20 years ago
@@dominique10640 Watch the video
Mike Bickle was around in the late 80s believing he himself was a prophet and promoting himself as a prophet. Derek Peince was alive and ministering then.
Great video. Very balanced and informative. Not gossip or destructive. Thank you. God bless you, brother
Thank you kindly
Thank you for sharing that letter with us, I recall a mention of this in one of his teachings. I gave my life to the Lord in 1979, during the Charismatic renewal at, of all places, Word of Faith, under then Pastor Robert Tilton. Filled with the Holy Spirit who gave me an insatiable desire for the Word of God and Truth. I still love Jesus and His Word/Truth. Derek Prince is one of very few i listen to. RUclips is filled with prophet wannabes, i saw the video pop up on my feed about Archangel Michael, Mike Thompson has also claimed to be caught up to the third heaven and received 3rd heaven authority, which is unscriptural. I listened to him a few times, enough to know he is "off". Thanks for what you are doing, it's needed, I'm new subscriber.
I am charismatic. But the Bible is also clear that false teachers will be displaying signs and wonders. Blows my mind how many people who don’t seem to know that.
It's really sad as you say. The devil can do signs and wonders as well
DEREK PRINCE DIED OVER 20 YEARS AGO, CHECK THE FACTS.... How did he just send a letter of rebuke to Mike Bickle?
Excellent... Thank you sooo much !
Love listening to Derek Prins, he inspires me very much
years ago in the 80's, my church in St. Louis had a prophetic conference. Mike Bickle was one of the guest speakers. When he got up to speak, it was nothing but babble and jibberish that came out of his mouth. From that time I was leary of that KC movement. Too bad Derek Prince is not still around to address the craziness that falls out of the mouth of KK.
DEREK PRINCE DIED OVER 20 YEARS AGO
@@dominique10640 and your point? nothing in my statement implied he was still living.
@@birchandmorleyHello ,The point is that if Derek Prince died 20 years ago,how could he JUST have sent a letter to Mike Bickle? Someone is saying ( the letter was sent in 1988? But KC did not start until may 1999, sa sad all the gossip and slander!
@@user-mh2xw5fk8d IHoP of KC was founded in 1999, but Mike Bickle was an established "prophet" in the 1980s. The prophetic conference in StL was in the 1980s and it was during the 80s that Derek Prince addressed his concerns that went unheeded.
Very good video, pointing out some of the real problems with Mike Bickle and IHOPKC
Thank you my friend
DEREK PRINCE DIED OVER 20 YEARS AGO, HOW DID HE JUST SEND A LETTER OF REBUKE TO MIKE BICKLE?
@@dominique10640GET OVER YOURSELF, DID HE NOT GIVE A DATE ON THE LETTER, STOP THE NONSENSE.
Thanks, brother. I appreciate the care with which you have approached this tragic situation, including bringing to light the errors at its founding.
Thank you so much Jeff. I have tried to speak on the situation like i was the one who could have fallen. If not for grace......
DEREK PRINCE DIED OVER 20 YEARS AGO
This was excellent Joshua. I purchased Gruens book because it is such a fine line. I really appreciate this discussion. Derek Prince and Lonnie Frisbee are two people that I want to speak to went I enter Heaven ❤
Thank you for sharing this.. sure wish we would have seen this letter a long time ago. I wonder why it wasn’t out in the forefront all these years.
I am blessed by your ministry Tom yes there is a lot of spiritual deception, and the Lord taught me about deliverance 44 years ago and I started with the Lord leading me to Derrick Prince's Ministry and all his teachings and it brought me comfort to know this is word founded., balanced .I understand that there must be a balance and discernment and the leaders are so susceptible to be misled and the bigger the Ministry the bigger the temptation to be deceived even under the guise of Religion. Thank you for your obedience to Father and for bringing a look into the lives and traps leaders have fallen under the guise of that it is from Father in heaven and not in alliance with Fathers word.
Thank you for your clarity and truth. I have always looked to Derek Prince's teaching and foundation for the church. There is so much confusion due to the wrong Biblical interpretation and men building building their own kingdoms.
I thank you for this! I love and respect Derek Prince a great deal. I thank you again!
Any time!
DEREK PRINCE DIED 20 YEARS AGO. How did he just send a letter of rebuke to Mike Bickle?
Thank you for posting this brother, this is absolutely timely for the church right now. I absolutely love brother Derek Prince, I partner with his ministry and listen to a lot of his teachings, and I've never been grieved by his ministry.
I highly recommend people subscribe to Derek Prince's youtube channel.
DEREK PRINCE DIED OVER 20 YEARS AGO, AND HE JUST SENT A LETTER OF REBUKE TO MIKE BICKLE? HOW DID HE DO THAT?
Oh God forgive us all.
Jesus you get ALL the glory!
2 Chronicles 7:14
English Standard Version
14 if my people who are called by my name humble themselves, and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sin and heal their land.
I remember visiting IHOP. I felt the prayer room was not very deep. It was about angle deep. I went to one of the services and I felt like my guts were being twisted inside out. I couldn’t understand but I knew something was very, very wrong. Now it’s all coming out. It’s sad. The 24-7 concept of prayer is great, but if they are off From the Word of God It won’t last.
LOVED "The 24-7 concept of prayer is great, but if they are off From the Word of God It won’t last."
DEREK PRINCE DIED OVER 20 YEARS AGO, AND HE JUST SENT A LETTER OF REBUKE TO MIKE BICKLE? HOW DID HE DO THAT? SOMETHING DOES NOT ADD UP?
@@dominique10640 It appears from the font style of the letter that Derek Prince wrote the letter it in the mid-nineties.
Yep. Too much looking the other way and fear of questioning or challenging leaders when they are doing weird stuff.
Very well said!!!
Thank you for sharing this information! This confirms my concerns. It’s helpful to hear a longstanding trusted voice such as Deric Prince saw through the facade so early on.
Glad it was helpful!
DEREK PRINCE DIED OVER 20 YEARS AGO, HOW DID HE JUST SEND A LETTER OF REBUKE TO MIKE BICKLE???
One of the first Christian books I purchased as a very new Christian in 1973 was Derek Prince's Foundation Series... seven small books going over the fundamentals of Christian faith and practice. That and Hobart Freeman's "Deeper Life in the Spirit" were helpful.
Thank you. God bless you.
Same to you!
DEREK PRINCE DIED OVER 20 YEARS AGO, How did he just send a letter of rebuke to Mike Bickle?
Thankyou! Your explanation of the end result of exalting humans to star status is so good. Breaks my heart what is going on.
On September 24, 2003, Derek Prince died in his sleep of heart failure at age 88. So exactly how did he rebuke anyone after that?
This was a letter from the 1980's
THANK YOU FOR TELLING THE TRUTH AND EXPOSING THE LIES. YES DERK PRINCE DIED OVER 20 YEARS AGO
I love Derek Prince.. and I 100% agree with all your observations and opinions!👍
I understand your heart to uncover misconduct at IHOP and FOTB .
Derek Prince had good fruit but Ernie is not a person to use as he was in sin with his secretary and in just a short time was exposed.
That is whyi never used Erine as the main example in any of my videos.
DEREK PRINCE DIED OVER 20 YEARS AGO, HOW DID HE SEND A LETTER OF REBUKE TO MIKE BICKLE?
Thank you and I'm happy to hear this message from a "charismatic",' cause others who expose false teaching often also condemn christian supernaturel manifestions. Stepping oiut of the charismatic movement can make one lonely, eventually leaving spiritual stuff behind to avoid furher confusion. Yet we can trust God as our precise surgeon to cut out any false spirituality, so that in the end only sound doctrine and Holy Spirit gifts remains.
I’m so glad you have spoken about Derek prince so many preachers not preaching the gospel I saw Derek prince at Malvern here in the uk he was powerful but simple in his preaching i watched his video on being delivered from demons a power message I’ve got his book where he talks about his life with his first wife Lydia I will always say Derek prince was a true Christian man who spoke the truth
LOVED " I saw Derek prince at Malvern here in the uk he was powerful but simple in his preaching "
First of all let me say that I love the teachings of Derek Prince. And thank you Joshua for everything you are doing to try to get the Charismatic movement back into orbiting around the word and the spirit. But before putting Derek up on too high of a pedestal, I think it is important to further note that he was one of the 5 key figures/leaders/initiators/propagators of the very unbiblical "Shepherding Movement" which trapped many believers nationwide into a cult like submission to leadership, where in some instances, people's every move, every vacation, every change of job had to submitted to leadership for approval. Thank God that Derek Prince confessed to this and forsook it, as you mentioned, but it had its lingering effect, in his waning influence on some Charismatic circles. He was considered old guard, and old wineskin in certain Charismatic streams, and many people whose lives had been badly affected and in some cases devastated, wanted nothing to do with him, Bob Mumford and others after their false teachings and practices were uncovered and exposed. David the psalmist rightly said in Psalm 130:3-4 3"If You, Lord, should mark iniquities, O Lord, who could stand? But there is forgiveness with You, that You may be feared." I've said it before that we don't need any human heroes. I also think it is healthy to go into greater depth regarding the shepherding movement, so that history doesn't repeat itself.
I did address the Sheparding movement in the video. Derek did repent many times for this and renounced it
Hello dear Joshua. I did acknowledge that you acknowledged it. Forgive me if I wasn't clear. For this new generation for which we have hope for the future I was opining that it would be good to show just how bad it was and get into a bit more detail. Many in the Charismatic movement were not so keen on receiving advice from Derek at that time. His adherents were much less after the shepherding movement was exposed. I just don't think it was as simple as people not listening to him. Yes he confessed and repented many times and was honest and contrite about that failure. He was definitely an example to follow in many ways.
DEREK PRINCE DIED OVER 20 YEARS AGO
DEREK PRINCE DIED OVER 20 YEARS AGO, HOW DID HE JUST SEND A LETTER OF REBUKE TO MIKE BICKLE?
I appreciate you sharing the letter from Derek Prince. The only problem is that there is not one specific thing mentioned that was untrue. I think you need to be more clear about what is untrue about the prophetic history or other issues.
Derek Prince's letter was not specific to speak to individual words or practices at ihopkc. However i feel all his conclusions are valid. Derek Prince was of high character and would have not put his name to something what wasn't true. However i share your disappointment that he didn't go into greater detail. However since the ministry has at ihopkc has fallen apart i'm sure it even matters
The famous comet was one thing that I researched. It was supposedly never mentioned by any news source before May 7, 1983, which was the beginning of Mike Bickle's famous 21-day fast that kicked off their whole prophetic journey. Supposedly Bob Jones brought in a newspaper about the comet on the first day of the fast May 7 (which they called the Solemn Assembly that Gabriel had supposedly spoken to Bob and Mike about). Scientists had discovered the comet a couple of weeks earlier, but Mike and Bob Jones said that was AFTER Bob Jones' prophecy about a comet to confirm the fast. Again, that newspaper he brought to the fast would have been on May 7. But I found an archived copy of the New York Times from May 6, 1983 discussing that very comet. So if another newspaper had printed a story about it before May 7, there may have been other papers that had published it even before that. This comet is also tied up very closely with Howard Pittman's testimony about the "announcement in the sky" which he said would occur on May 7 of that year. He never says that it is a comet (but what else would it be)? But his booklet Placebo says that May 7 and the announcement in the sky is when Jesus will begin spewing forth the Laodicean church from his mouth (which doesn't really connect with Mike Bickle's fast). Mike Bickle took it to be confirmation of his 21-day fast starting on May 7. Mike didn't read the booklet until Nov 15, 1983--some random lady sent it to him--and there was a prophecy by Bob Jones that he would get confirmation on Nov 15 that would cause him to never doubt the fast--and the promise of revival due to the fast--again in his life. Mike Bickle took that as booklet as his confirmation. The beginning of that so-called revival was, Mike said, the Toronto blessing. But I don't think that is what they had in mind, because Toronto did not lead to a sweeping revival where thousands or hundreds of thousands got saved. It was more termed a church renewal and had many questioning. And now IHOP is defunct.
Seeing that the New York Times wrote about the comet on May 6 made me doubt the veracity of the comet story. I realize that is only one day early, but the whole point was that is would be announced on May 7 (the announcement in the sky). If no one knew about it until May 7, that would be different.
@@ReLair88 Wow thank you for adding this my friend. You are providing such rich insight into the situation. God bless you my friend!
@@TornCurtainIJoshuaSimone Thanks, Joshua. I appreciate your videos so much.
ONE OF THE BIGGEST FAILED PROPHECIES:
From the beginning of the KC Prophets, one of the KEY prohecies was about Pat Bickle, Mike Bickle's invalid brother... a Bob Jones' prophecy that Pat was going to be healed and revival would break out (including healing revival). When that didn't happen and Pat died on May 5, 2007, they edited the prophetic history to take that prophecy out. That should have been a HUGE RED FLAG to everyone who knew about that prophecy. I didn't know about this healing prohecy of Pat until pretty recently, because the more recent Prophetic History that I listened to didn't have it.
Note: Last year on May 5, 2023, the anniversary of Pat Bickle's death, I dreamt about many, many cars filled with IHOPers leaving IHOPKC permamently.
I didn't know the date of Pat's death until I did research about my dream, the date May 5, and IHOPKC. After the news came out about Mike Bickle's sins, I began to think of that dream as the death of IHOP.
The comet was never supposed to announce the beginning of the fast. It was supposed to be a sign, that’s all. May 7th was already given to both Mike and Bob completely separate from the comet.
DEREK PRINCE AND DAVID PAWSON
I will be doing a video about Pawson and one of the last sermons he preached at ihop
Did you say prophetic history or pathetic history?? Anyway I go to a chruch that a number of pastors older were on Ernie Gruin staff in 80s and early 90s and they agreed while Ernie was on to something truthful his efforts was motivated in Jealousy. Mike's ministry sky rocked almost over night while a larg number of Ernies congregation left to go to KC Fellowship. The AG chruch I grew up in my Pastor who became fairly well known I suspect he was jealous as well as he would reference " the church of the white horse rider" he would always say it in a mocking belittling way. I just recently heard an older semon where he made that statement then I remembered him saying that frequently. In all fairness it must be noted at the time Ernie put out his propaganda about KC Fellowship he himself was in sexual sin and from what I understand he repented later. I thinks it's only fair to mention that as the documents is on the internet.
AMAZING, DEREK PRINCE DIED 20 YEARS AGO, AND HE JUST SENT A LETTER OF REBUKE TO MIKE BICKLE? ? THE ATTACK ON MIKE BICKLE CAME AFTER HE GATHERED 6 MILLION PRAYER WARRIORS FROM AROUND THE WORLD TO FAST AND PRAY FOR ISRAEL..
Bro, your videos are getting so good!! I really appreciate the way you are keeping sound biblical doctrine at the center of your ministry. Many blessings my friend 🔥✝️
I really appreciate that my friend. Blessings to you 🙌
DEREK PRINCE DIED OVER 20 YEARS AGO, AND HE JUST SENT A LETTER OF REBUKE TO MIKE BICKLE? ? ?
I highly respect Derek Prince and grateful for his ministry and warning. Of course if heeded it may have helped avoid some of the ihop KC issues. BUT, I’m not convinced Derek’s warning had any bearing on Mike’s personal moral falures and sin.
I think it also fair to acknowledge years after the Gruen document was released, he and many of the others who signed off on it retracted their position against KCIHOP. And sadly, Gruen had a moral failure of his own. I don’t believe doctrinal accuracy is a guarantee someone will also morally pure.
You brought up many good points. Thank you for commenting
DEREK PRINCE DIED OVER 20 YEARS AGO, HOW DID HE MANAGE TO JUST SEND A LETTER OF REBUKE TO MIKE BICKLE? PERHAPS THINGS ARE NOT WHAT THEY SEEM TO BE.
Derek Prince is spot on! Enjoying listening to him.
In my humble opinion he was 30 years ahead of his time with his teaching. I rarely find a bible teacher as good in this generation
@@TornCurtainIJoshuaSimone Check out Stephen Darby
DEREK PRINCE DIED OVER 20 YEARS AGO, HOW IS IT POSSIBLE THAT HE JUST SENT A LETTER OF REBUKE TO MIKE BICKLE ? ?
thank you for this clarity. It is so very needed right now.
Glad it was helpful!
God is so patient... Look how long He gave them to repent...
DEREK PRINCE DIED OVER 20 YEARS AGO, CHECK THE FACTS. How did he just send a letter of rebuke to Mike Bickle?
Thanks for the reminder.
Any time!
Thank you for this video. Loved Derek Prince and I get what you said above. ☝️✝️🙏
Glad you enjoyed it
Dr. Andy Woods, pastor Sugarland Baptist Church in Sugarland TX. A former lawyer and except bible teacher in a calming manner digging into the Word of God. I live. In New England but after much searching discovered Dr. Woods and now claim him as my alternative pastor on the net.
They said they were going to cross pollinate with the Vineyard. I remember hearing some of them. I thought they were going off track.
Where can one obtain a copy of this letter?
Thank you ... what is your view on tge teachings of David Wilkerson
I enjoy David Wilkerson very much.
I really appreciated this video. I’m from KC and have always wondered about IHOP. That said, I just got introduced to the charismatic world a couple years ago and have slowly been learning to navigate and weigh issues like you’ve mentioned here. I have already seen some of the issues you mentioned and this really helps me have a better perspective on all of it.
Glad it was helpful!
DEREK PRINCE DIED OVER 20 YEARS AGO, AND HE JUST SENT A LETTER OF REBUKE TO MIKE BICKLE/ ? HOW DID HE DO THAT?
Thanks!
Wow. Thank you so much. Blessings back to you!
Warning: Don't turn Derek Prince into more than what he did.
He was head of the Sheparding Movement around 1976 out of Orlando. Their name was Christian Growth Ministries along with Bob Mumford and Charles Simpson.
They raised up a strict set of rules on Home Church, where each leader marched to the orders of the next higher leader etc.
The outcome was a colossal failure due to abuses of all kinds.
They closed the church/company when the abuse was reported. Only Simpson and Mumford issued written apologies. Derek said nothing.
Many people were hurt deeply by their rules.
Spiritual and physical abuse deserve jail time if found guilty.
I guess you didn't watch the video. I mentioned this. And Derek did repent and renounce the sheparding movement
Thank you brother, well said.
Much appreciated
Prince is quality.
Was he under specific denominational oversight himself?
He had a teaching ministries which included a board of directors he was responsible to
Joshua, I like your website. I've greatly admired Derek Prince for decades. And I share your reservations about the current charismatic movement run amok.
I think you are painting the charismatic movement in just one or two colors only however. And doing so unfairly. I was watching the ihop situation as it unfolded into excess. As you correctly point out, ihop then put itself (though we now know not honestly) under Wimber's umbrella.
All this wasn't as clear-cut then as you describe it today. Nobody had ever seen an ihop-type house of prophets before to my knowledge. Wimber took them on in an effort to bring them back from excess into at least a more mainstream fold. This is the same thing he did with other groups to help them consolidate or find their way back to orthodoxy; Church of England churches, unaligned charismatic groups, etc.
Wimber allowed things to proceed for awhile in what turned out to be something of a "fruit test" for ihop. When ihop wouldn't follow through though, Wimber disassociated them from Vineyard. Hindsight is 20/20; in 2024 it's easy to forget what Wimber actually did. To fault him for not perfectly handling a situation no one had seen before, smacks of the "Discernment Ministries" today who blame every leader in the last 100 years for every misconduct and even blasphemy. Even Billy Graham!
Wimber perfect? I'm sure not. However, much good came through Wimber when all this was happening. To paint Wimber as a Mike Bickle is I think a smear on a good man's name, who ran a good race and through whom we are still eating much good fruit. Bickle gave no benefit to my family. Wimber on the other hand laid the foundation (which is Christ), that allowed us to raise four children, now married, in upper 30s to 40s, giving us a total of 17 grandchildren, with everyone orthodox in their christianity and all faithful to the Lord to this day.
Just to be very clear. I have the upmost respect for John Wimber and his ministry. The things John Wimber had accomplished will most likely never be repeated. He was a one of a kind. However i think they could have heeded Derek warnings. I do not want to paint all charismatics with the same brush. But as someone who has spent all 43 years in the Charismatic movement. Great reform is necessary. The next great revival will not come through the modern day charismatic movement. We need a shift in my humble opinion toward scripture, the Gospel and keeping Jesus Christ at the center of it all. Joel says in the last days God will pour his spirit out on all flesh. We need a WORD and SPIRIT movement in the next phase of Christianity
@@TornCurtainIJoshuaSimone Thank you. I heard John Wimber call many times for a Word and Spirit Body, so I think that addresses that concern. I think a case can be made that it is just as important to honor the honorable though, as it is to expose the dishonorable. I saw the honorable being dishonored. If we don't make that distinction, how will we set the boat back afloat?
@@mygyro Thank you so much for pointing this out so i could clarify. John Wimber should be honored for his great contributions to the Christian faith. He didn't make any major mistakes. And he was balanced in his approach. A word and spirit guy. I just wish he would have heeded Derek's warning.
DEREK PRINCE DIED OVER 20 YEARS AGO, AND HE JUST SENT A LETTER OF REBUKE TO MIKE BICKLE? HOW?
Thank you for this message and the courage to standfast on righteousness! Good to hear someone addressing correction biblically. Concerning IHOPKC scandal, I'm wondering if anyone is addressing the spiritual component of the iniquity...i.e. the strong seducing spirits and witchcraft powers at work through the leaders?
I agree. I once was very into the prophetic and stepped back as practices and things seemed to be more on the leadership being magnified rather than Jesus and the message of the Gospel-Cross of Calvary. I found that sound biblical teaching was deviated with human error
Very well said my friend
THE Prophetic Call by Arthur Aaron Katz excellent.
In the last eight years, I read or listen to Derek Prince almost every day. As far as living teachers go, Ken Fish frequently reminds me of Derek Prince. Josh, I think we have some mutual friends in M.S. and J.C. Blessings!
Ken Fish is another RARE word and spirit guy. I highly recommend Ken Fish teaching ministry to everyone
Ken Fish is good but IDK about all that lol
I just came across Ken Fish teaching on RUclips these couple of days. His teaching by what I listened to is good, but his endorsement on Bethel and Bill Johnson cast a shadow on my mind. Could Josh or anyone shed some light on this? Thanks a lot and God bless.
@@huiguizhijia I think if Ken Fish was asked specific questions about things going on at Bethel my hunch is that he would have some concerns. At the same time they came from the same spiritual father in John Wimber and my guess is that Ken is trying to be graceful. Although Ken is close with Bill Johnson i haven't seen him minister at Bethel.
@@TornCurtainIJoshuaSimone Thank you very much for your reply. May the Lord continue to bless you with your ministry.
Thank you Joshua
Thank you for watching!
DEREK PRINCE DIED OVER 20 YEARS AGO
So good. Thank you-
Thank you my friend. Blessings 🙌
Where can we find the letter from Derek Prince?
Here is the full letter: twitter.com/Torncurtainorg/status/1790840909602373742
DEREK PRINCE DIED 20 YEARS AGO, AND HE JUST SENT A LETTER OF REBUKE TO MIKE BICKLE? HOW DID HE DO THAT?
@dominique10640 the letter was from the 1980's my friend
THE HOUSE OF PRAYER (KC) DID NOT START UNTIL MAY 7TH 1999 .... ????????
Another preacher was Colin urquat he now with Jesus but he too was a true man of god x
I will check him out. Blessings to you!
The link above didn't work for me, but I went to your channel and found it. Thanks.
Thank you for watching my friend
If the gifts are only practiced in church then it can easily become a circus act.
The gifts, I believe, are to be used in every day life as we go about our business letting God guide us every day.