The Problem with Nikon Mirrorless...
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- Опубликовано: 17 окт 2024
- This Issue needs to be fixed. Anything you would add?
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@Matt Granger - the AF issue that you mentioned is common with every Canon and even Sony cameras as well. It’s a general mirrorless issue not specific to Nikon. Check Duade Paton’s video on this issue in Canon system.
The trick here is to move your camera and focus closer to a larger subject which might not be a bird. Then again focus on the bird, it works 99% of the time.
Z9 is an Amazing Camera there is nothing like it on the market currently. Perhaps Nikon should release Z90/Z500 soon which has same AF as Z9.. that will allow lot of people to purchase lower end APSC version 😊
The even better option is to just turn the manual focus ring getting it closer to the bird, then the cam will find it.
@@MikeHellerthere is a near and far autofocus
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I solved this problem by setting my af-on button to single or wide area small then the shutter/primary focus to auto area . With the af on I can have the camera focus exactly where I want and the auto-area in the shutter button can do all the guess work .
I also think it’s very important Nikon gives us the option of assigning subject detect options to buttons .
This helps but I have seen tests and even the smallest point autofocus would see past the bird, this effected all camera brands but mainly nikon. I have a Sony A1 and still just use the smallest point autofocus for all my bird photography other than flight shots, I just feel like I can't rely on wide focus areas
We should not have to do a focus mode dance to have the modes work. With my Z6II I do a focus mode dance with my function buttons, but I still had to manually rack back with my Z100-400mm lens with some subjects. My Z8 focus modes are much better but I agree with Matt about Nikon should make that firmware change. All the Exspeed 6 Nikons would benefit as well as the Exspeed 7 bodies.
That doesn't always work for me. The single point AF point sometimes doesn't seem to want to look closer than where it is.
this, I don't trust eye tracking at all. 99% of the time I'n using single point af and the last 1% is manual
@@KurtisPape exactly - I have been trying single point to "fix" it and it often doesn't work, I have to manually rack my focus forward.
The epitome of positive criticism. You find issues, provide a solution and move on. But you stay with and appreciate your suff. Very professional.
Been watching your channel since "That Nikon Guy" started way back!👍
The Fro would cry, complain then switch brands.🤣
@@oatsgoats39 The point is, there is NO perfect camera. If there was such a thing, I guess the entire world would use it.
You can switch but my guess is that it too will have some type of issue. Then switch again? I guess it's ok if money isn't important. Becoming a good photographer is not just pushing 1 button and voila.
Yeah and good point.
He makes a suggestion and it's up to Nikon to implement this suggestion.
Now on to doing some business.
100% truth especially about Fro. LOL
I miss "That Nikon Guy" !
Hello Matt, I did the same trip in July, less cold and less rain. I did amazing shots using two old DSLRs. Iceland is amazing.
The ultimate professionals at all level. Thanks for keep all content clear and concise. I am still shooting DSLR still waiting for the mirrorless camera that meet all my requirements. Keep up the great job
This is definitely true Matt. I missed a lot of shots because of this when I first got my Z8. I usually just point the camera at the ground below the subject and it focuses, then I can acquire focus on the bird. That's quicker for me than trying to fumble around for the focus ring or a recall button.
Hey Jim, yeah I often do this too, but it really shouldn't be needed, especially when the cameras are SO capable in almost every other way.
@@mattgranger I agree. I wasn't making excuses for Nikon. I was just throwing out another alternative as a work around.
I do the same, sometimes I use the Recall button but normally I do the focus to the ground approach.
I have a Sony A1 and still use the smallest autofocus area for bird photography, only just started trusting bird eye AF, but for a year I didn't use it because it would pick up on tree knots, ears etc. With 4 years using mirrorless it comes naturally for me to close focus and pre-focus near the subject so I rarely get into the situation my autofocus is seeing past the subject and I can't pick it up, all that aside it still does catch me out from time to time
Well on Canon and Sony you don't need to "beat around the ground" to get accurate focus. Nikon Z AF sucks big time.
While the Nikon DSLRs were the best for AF
In the firmware, and when it appears on the menu, they could also add an interval distance for how much the camera should "retract" the focus point. For example, pull back 5, 10, 15, or 20 metres to a new starting point from which to move forward to find the subject. It might ease the load on the processor as it would allow it to work within a smaller range, and likely this would reduce the electrical demand on the battery. Good work on our part on sussing this out.
You are a very good teacher. You have been passing on knowledge for so many years and your tests are a pleasure to watch. Good photographer too. Regards :)
There's a technical reason why MILC have this issue. The masked on-sensor PDAF pixels have a limited geometry vs the discrete PDAF sensors on DSLRs. This limits their ability to properly detect both the phase differential and phase direction when the subject under the PDAF pixels is far outside of focus. Essentially the camera is blind to the subject, and this blindness is indistinguishable to the camera vs a scenario where there's no subject under the PDAF pixels. This geometry issue is worst at long focal lengths, where the phase differentials are greatest relative to the exit pupil distance of those lenses. Your proposed solution is reasonable, although it may interfere in situations where there's no subject and the camera pays a time penalty racking through focus searching for a subject. Rather than performing this automatically I think a button to initiate it will probably yield the best balance between a solution to the issue and not breaking other AF scenarios.
could that also explain the rather poor AF performance of an Z7ii on low light compared to Nikon DSLR e.g. D8xx?
@@juergenbaumann8817 yes low light performance is awful on z6ii / 7ii if you don't have at least f1,8 lens (you have to shoot it wide open, because it doesn't open up the aperture like dslr when focusing). Plus there is no flash assist grid from flash, which is really useful when photographing low light events...
My canon r5 acts the exact same way and I’ve heard it explained so many times simply as how mirrorless cameras works. You’ve offered the first possible solution I have heard. Love your consistent loyalty and criticism. You’ve shown over the years that you have a preference but you’re not a blind loyalist. Respect for that for sure.
I have partly moved to mirrorless but at heart I will never leave DSLR. It still hits all the boxes for me
I have seen it even with stuff like the horizon using a single point: it's foggy, my Zf could not find focus and my D750 did it immediately. I did not have the Z8 with me so I don't know if it will be better. I believe your solution is very good. I have not seen Nikon's code, so I am not sure how easy is to add that logic. One issue is that the Nikon system is comparably slow going from closer focus to infinity compared to Sony and Canon so maybe they try and it was counterproductive most of the time. Finally, to underscore Matt's final point, I used to do a lot of Dance photography and people loved my results because I was able to nail the face and peek action most of the time. Back then, and even during the DSLR days, nobody was opening the picture in a 4K looking at the jump at 100%, and checking if the eyes were in focus (I am talking about the presentation, with no flash). It was: face is basically in "focus", dude you are a monster. Same for birds, you were expected to sharpen the eyes a little bit, not to nail the eyes of a bird in flight at f2.8 all the time. The cameras are pretty good but basically, Sony changed the game forever.
When my lens is already focused beyond the subject I point down at the ground or something close by and get it to focus on that quickly and then back to the subject and it grabs the subject more easily. Your plan for a programmable distance to refocus sounds very good.
It shoukd be standard on all cameras at this point
Agreed. I often find myself tilting the lens downwards to a closer focus point then look at the subject to focus. I like your recall button hack, will set it up.
Matt's nature footage is spot on: No effects/overly done color correction BS, calm, tasteful and suitable music, variety of closeups vs wide shots. well done mate.
Hey Matt, you're right, these issues should be addressed. They're not a dealbreaker but should definitely be addressed. But there is more Nikon (and yes NIKON I'm talking to you as I shoot Nikon and love your quality!). Fix this AF also on the Z6 and Z6ii (and 7 & 7II while you're at it) as it is not ethically acceptable to make your clients pay for a half-backed camera. These days, Nikon's AF is better, I admit that (after a few fixes), but sometimes they don't want to know about carrying out their duties... the camera literally REFUSES to put anything in focus. May this be in the foreground or the background of the frame! Com'on Nikon!! Get a grip and give us working tools, even without having to drop 5K on a body!
I’m with you mate. Nikon make awesome products. And fair minded users should give feedback and seek to make great products EVEN BETTER
Good for you. I thought it was my technique that caused the out of focus problem on my Z9. It wasn't, it's the camera... still figuring out the best way to fix it.
The most plausible way to fix it would be to sell it and switch to Sony.
Hope you see some of the techniques above!
@@CC3GROUNDZERO Why on earth would I move down market ?!
@@larrymitchell3502 Yes indeed, but still experimenting.
@@johnvaleanbaily246 How would you be "moving down market" when switching to Sony, the manufacturer with the industry-leading AF, who also produces the sensors of your current system?!
The autofocus issue is such a delight to hear told - because - it occurs on other systems too! Here i was hearing that the Z-system was all-that, getting annoyed specifically with focus subject detection on my duji x-h2s and 150-600 lens, and the issue turns out to be endemic to mirrorless! Thanks!!! Now i definitely love my fujis and consider the issue a general one!
Matt, are you satisfied with your Z9’s Eye-AF accuracy? I find that the square shows it is on the eye, but in post processing I discover it is not. Any suggestions?
Also, in all your travels and photo sessions, how much does atmospheric haze affect your shooting? I recently was frustrated using the Z 600mm Phase Fresnel for two weeks before the haze lifted and the photos became razor sharp.
Thanks,
JP
What firmware version are you using?
@@williambuford6136 - 4.10
@@williambuford6136 - I am using firmware 4.10. Nikon had me do a hard reset and encouraged me to retry shooting tomorrow.
Totally agree Matt. I sometimes wonder if the focusing could be helped when the Z9 is confused if it reduced its aperture and so increased its depth of field in certain focussing situations. The viewfinder is now capable of brightening the image for the photographer. Increased DOF could also help the photographer find his subject quicker though the sensor will have less light to work with
Great video! I have the d3s and d800. I like to upgrade to D5 or z7ii. Is it worth every dollar or should I stick to what I have and wait?
Just program a button for focus recall... or for AF-ON with a small area... will focus on the closest object it can find.
Matt, thanks for highlighting the focusing issue. You are exactly correct. As an older gainfully employed hobbyist my time and funds are limited. It's becoming more difficult for me to travel with larger lenses. Particularly with airline carry on camera equipment. My lens of choice with my Z8 is the 400/4.5 S lens. I can use the DX function button to extend to 600mm. I would like your recommendation on a 2 x teleconverter as an alternative to going to the Z 600mm f/6.3 VR S. Use case wise, I like the 400mm lens. My other travel lenses are the 14 -30/4 S and 24-120/4 S. Thanks.
Actually you can't use the DX function on the Z8 with a FX lens, while this would have been a advantage for users of the Z8, it would have eaten into the profits of Nikon when launching a DX Mirrorless camera in the near future, so when you set your Z8 to shoot in DX mode you can only use DX lenses; I am utterly disappointed with Nikon for doing this, stingy bastards.
That's incorrect. Take a look at the Nikon site specs.
@@PSYCHIC_PSYCHO I don't know if you take your RUclips name seriously. Nevertheless, you can go DX mode on FX lenses on Z8.
@@mainmain5303 Okay; however my comment was based on a review by a well known American reviewer.
Cool watch. Which is it?
I don't shoot birds, but one thing where the Z9 is still worse than a DSLR is shooting in the studio with flashes. Once you go beyond f5.6, the focusing becomes slower, and I much prefer using the D850, which is faster and more accurate in such conditions. I have almost zero waste with D850, while with the Z9, there are quite a few poorly focused photos for my taste.
Good one matt. Thanks for letting everyone know about this issue.
thank you! The same thing happened to me with the z8 and a sigma 150-600. It may happen on all cameras but it is extremely exaggerated and sometimes it does not move even when focused close and changing to 1 focus point. You can only do this by moving the ring. Thanks for letting me know that it's not me or my camera! 🤗🤜🏼
Thank you for this video! New z8 owner with a Sigma F mount 500 f4. I've been having intermittent focus issues exactly as you describe here, so good to know it's not my kit. Hopefully this gets a firmware fix soon!
The reason why DSLRs are much less prone to this issue, is that their dedicated phase AF sensors are set up in a way that gives them a much deeper DoF. Even when your subject is blurred beyond recognition in the image at wide open aperture, DSLR PDAF system still sees it as it would have been with lens aperture considerably closed and thus getting a much higher chance of catching it.
Dslrs also didn’t have subject detect. So they were just looking for something with contrast
@@mattgranger DSLR's don't look for contrast, they look for phase shift (PDAF = phase detect AF), which isn't the same thing. Mirrorless introduced contrast-detect AF (CDAF), which is slower, but much more accurate and capable of working with subject detection algorithms. It's important to note that most mirrorless offerings use a hybrid PDAF/CDAF system, where the phase detection system has been moved to the sensor itself, typically by adding specific pixels for just this purpose.
Good feedback. Can I ask if you can provide the firmware version you are using. This would be helpful when these posts are published that perhaps a future firmware version address this and understand that the publishing time of this video was not affected by the latest firmware.
Hi Matt, absolutely right I’ve the same issue with Z9 and 800mm F5.6E. Hopefully Nikon weak up and fix the firmware. Great Video.
I've definitely encountered it on my Zf, same problem, same fix. While I haven't been trying to shoot things that it really interfered with, it would definitely be nice to see fixed.
Do you have issues with z8 banding with HSS off-camera flash? I have z8 with AD200's & I also have FJ200 & FJ400. ALL has banding issues with trying to freeze sports action in dramatic shoots.
Bruh, I still squeeze the trigger on my D200! My F2 is on the shelf in retirement. I just might pull it out 'cuz I'm feeling like I've neglected it. The D850 and the D7500 the D5500 are my current workhorses.
As for Z, I have not taken the plunge quite yet. If the Z6mk3 comes out with a fully articulating screen, Then I might jump in. What am I waiting for? I'm spoiled with full articulation.
Well said sir! Great tip on using the Lens Function Button to pull focus back for the don't see anything issue. Thanks.
The problem is they break if you drop them.
Thats a problem with almost all electronics.
Well i managed to drop my z9 twice in 3 months of having it 😂 have a really small tear in the eyecup plastic from the 2nd time and thats about it. Both times ftz II with 28 1.4E and everythign still perfect, tho i had a big as bruise on my leg for few weeks 😂
Took a tumble with my z6 and 70-200 while hiking. Camera went tumbling. My heart sank. Upon inspection all was well. Anecdotal, I know. What experience have you had with mirrorless being less durable? Not arguing, just general curiosity.
@@danielapark87 it was meant to be a gentle bit of poking, we have all dropped stuff, sometimes we get away with it and sometimes we don't.
@@eldengard23A friend of mine dropped his z9 in the lake! He pulled it out, pulled the battery, dried it out for a week and it worked!
Can't you set the temporary single point focus to any of the buttons? You expert, you?
I jumped ship to Canon now, here's option to keep racking focus, or not. Isn't something similar on Nikons?
I find this happens with my Fujifilm H2S sometimes. I use a mode that allows manual focus while in autofocus. Focus recall button is also very useful. Yes, you are spot on. Seems that the processor could make focus steps to reacquire focus.
I think the solution shouldn't be too difficult. Panasonic cameras have a feature called near AF and far AF, which you can set to any of the buttons or the joystick on the camera body. It basically tells the camera that the subject is closer or further from the current focus distance.
This function is what makes the G9 in particular usable, in spite of the DfD system. Set to the two buttons by the lens mount
@Broskisnowski not really. They have focus recall, where you can pull focus to a pre programmed distance. What I've mentioned isn't anything like it.
Interesting video. I have a z6 and a D700. The D700 is my go to camera.
Interesting seeing the various model cameras side by side. While not a mirrorless shooter I’ve thought about it since the Z8’s arrival. The smaller Z series are too small to be comfortable in my hands. Still used to my D700/850.
This is a great presentation. Of course the product is great, but getting to the edge on actual, in depth use with intelligent commentary makes this a worthwhile video. Thanks for the info.
This same issue happens to almost all mirrorless cameras, regardless of brand; so it might be something inherent with mirrorless sensors and firmware may not be enough to fix the issue. The new Panasonic G9 Mark II allows you to program button to force the focus to search closer or further from the current point with some success.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
I'm looking to buy a z8 but having seen several videos about eyelashes focus in portrait, I'm holding on.
I had the very same issue with the SOny A7RIV and now with the A7R5 the focus is almost 100% right.
Terrific video! I'm a Canon shooter and have been watching your videos for years. I was the same way, slow to move to mirror less but once I moved to the R5 from my 5DIV, I was converted. The first time in the woods, it locked onto a chicadee's eye....black head and tiny black eye. And that was with a thousand dollar third party zoom. Good work, Matt.
one other tip, perhaps going to a smaller aperture (bigger f number), hence a greater depth of field may bring this under control again; the dof could be so thin that the AF system can't see the subject to do the detection on, aka it lies outside the subject detection's recognition range, so a few seconds at f8/f11 should fix it.
I have heard that the Z9 doesn’t support high speed sync flash.
I am a experienced portrait photographer, using a D750 at the moment with manual focus Zeiss lenses.
Now I am doubting for buying a Z9 or a D850.
Using manual focus lenses is a priority.
What is your advice?
I’d go z9
It does support hss flash. And you can zoom in 100% for manual focus.
Also the d850 is discontinued
@@mattgranger thanks and does the Z7 and Z8 support HSS flash?
I shot a D4 for many years and I am just grateful to no longer have the focus rack and back and forth when I am trying to lock onto a flying bird. Yes, it could be better, but it has improved so much compared to a short time ago. Your solutions sound reasonable. I like the idea of setting the focus recall button to a closer focus.
I know this isn't what the video was about but I love your watch. What kind/brand/model is it?
I use af-on button like a single point. When the camera don't find the subject, I push the button to find it. Immediately the camera select the subject one time is on focus.
Best regards!
I wish I had this problem! Can only imagine how frustrating this is. Interesting video Matt.
You are spot on there with focussing birds.
Amen Matt. My D500 would even quickly refocus. The same is true in Animal AF as well but not as much as birds but still happens more than people would think. Also enjoyed your shutter shield broke video got me thinking to always carry back-ups with me on future trips.
Great video! I have also noticed this issue while shooting sports, I have to admit, I thought maybe it was just me, but this video confirmed what I was experiencing as well. Cheers!
Always good advice on this channel. Your tips on improving subject detect AF on the Lumix G9 made a big difference in my keeper rate for birding. Of course I'm leading up to the fact that the G9 offers a near-focus, far-focus programmable option and two buttons well placed at the front of the camera to nudge the camera lens in either direction should it become confused.
For this particular problem I would suggest a "bi-directional" focus rack. If it starts at the "near end", then when it hits a limit at the "far end", then immediately reverse the focus direction and continue until finds a valid subject in focus, or gets back to where it started.
people are starting to realize the z8 will cause banding stripes when using godox flashes in hss at higher sync speed, can be seen at 1/4000s. this doesn't happen on the z7ii with a mech shutter. this not the the lcd background flickering banding. that is different. I have a few nikons myself. 5 fx 2dslr and 3milc.
I bought a Z8 and put a Yongnuo YN 568 Ex flash on it, with which it communicates in TTL mode, but it overexposes terribly! Then I looked it up and saw that this was a problem for other people as well. I have Yongnuo flashes and triggers and I don't know if it would be possible to use the Z8 in TTL mode with another Yongnuo flash, or will I have to buy a much more expensive Nikon flash? A video on this topic would be nice. Nikon Z and non-Nikon TTL flashes. (Google was my translator)
Hi sir, I need some suggestion. I am planning to upgrade my body . I am a wedding photographer, some time needs to video occasionally . Already have a line up of afs f mount lens 35 1.8, 50,85,24-70,18-200 … now for update, as per my budget I took three choices d780, Z6ii with ftz, d850(second hand) can you tell me which will be better for me .
Is there any prob with autofocus/sharpening if I use f mount lens on mirrorless because I dont want to sell that lens line up .
I have not tested all those lenses on FTZ to say for sure, but most work well. You might wait for the Z6ii replacement to come.
Excellent point Matt and may I just throw in one more simple firmware update request. Nikon please allow us landscape photographers a 4:5 ratio in the Z9!! I still don`t understand that overlook and whenever I ask on your FB page my request is instantly taken down, and no I don`t want to hear the proverbial, "just crop later Dude" comments.
I love 4*5 too!
Its really good positive criticism, to make some details better. I totally agree. Tgese cameras can work at - 10 c , so... They build and tested cameras , they have known how. The f6, the d5, d6, d850 .. they know. Thanks Matt Granger for your love for photography.
Exactly! My pleasure mate.
As a event photographer, Z8 feels like a downgrade when it comes for low light events - no AF-assist from flash. Second thing is, camera will focus using F5.6 for focusing if that aperture is set for shooting (dSLR will close aperture only during shooting ) So basically i cant shoot in lowlight using flash and using some smaller aperture (even F4 - camera will struggle to lock focus on anything) Damn, im refreshing nikonrumors webpage everyday expecting new firmware update
Glad to hear this. It has been a very annoying problem for me and I thought it was me. Just didn't understand why this great auto focus system, for me, was not all that great at times.
I fell down stairs at Christmas and saved my EOS R but broke my leg. Lost a good excuse to buy a new camera and laid me out of work for two months with a stack of medical bills. Lesson: know when drop your gear to save yourself. Health is infinitely more valuable. Trust me.
Thanks again for an interesting point of view. I also would like to see the problem of the use of flash solved in mirrorless cameras. That was my biggest disapointment when I changed to the Z, all my flashes became useless.
What do you mean your flashes became useless?
It's happened quite often with my Z9. It is annoying but like you said , there are work arounds. Still hope it gets fixed.
100%
For the bird AF thing, one thing I found that I think a lot of people make the mistake of, is using too large of an area. While I don't shoot wildlife that much, in the times I have, I have found that a large wide area (but not full area) AF works best as long as I can mostly predict and keep the bird within that part of the frame. I think some people make the mistake of using too large of an area (even full Auto area AF) and rely on the camera to search the entire frame. This may be helpful if the bird is flying because it can be a bit erratic, but if the bird is NOT moving (perched somewhere) using a smaller AF area I've found helps and I've ended up with less missed shots or out of focus shots rather. I st ill get them but have had fewer issues by narrowing down the area of focus so the camera isn't trying to look all over the entire frame.
I wonder if your update "request" will be included in the rumored update for the Z8 (and perhaps also to the Z9). Not sure if they would do the same for the Z5/Z6/Z7 but maybe.) However i did hear there is supposed to be an update for the Z8 (the first one 1.01 was more a bug fix and I think just lens support).
Perhaps they could have it so that when you press a button (programmable) that it just pulls back and starts over, like yo udescribe, rather than being automatic, OR have it so you can choose whether the lens racks focus fully or requires the button press to do it. My guess is that at farther distances, racking focus all the way back to close focus may eat up precious time, and may not always have been thought to be necessary (obviously, it may be) and that's why it tends to hang out at farther distances, and even say 7m like you mentioned which isn't that far away in reality).
I agree there is a focus issue as you described and it has improved with recent updates. I have set the F1 button to single point when I need to get between branches or finding focus in the issue you mention. As you mention, the keeper rate has increased with the auto detection and I hope in due time there will be another firmware upgrade to further address the focus issue. Agree the door cover panels could have been designed like the D5/D850, for better protection.
What kind of watch is that Matt?
My biggest complaint (with my Z6ii) is that I can't assign a button to switch from single point AF to group/dynamic AF- like my D500 could. Is this an option on the Z8 or Z9?
one other point, those long lenses have a focus area switch, maybe this is set to far focus, and there is no override to this{other than the switch itself}, Also Matt lenses like the 105 MC don't do close focus racking intuitively; Deliberately, as the aperture shifts when you do so, aka f32 is NOT available close in (only f 22 max), dof reasons?, and at least for this lens these close distances are in the macro range, so has to be done with "user consent", not automatically, as diffraction, and the above aperture shift come into effect, which could ruin the workflow, as things will be counter intuitive to the shooter.
The biggest problem is not being able to auto focus AF-D lenses. Nikon were always exemplary at backwards compatibility with F mount but not having an FTZ with a focus motor is poor. It reduces your Z9 to the capabilities of a D3500 when using AF-D lenses.
Hi Matt, thanks for a new great video.
I most shoot sports and wildlife and use both A74+Sony 200-600 and KI-Il + Pentax 150-450 and I get 3 times more pictures with the Sony but sometimes more keepers with the Pentax. Just get sloppy and loose control and think mirrorless will fix it all is to drop down your skills permanent. Good to grab DSLR:s for training and keeping skills alive. I like to use both systems and will never drop the Pentax, does not matter how adwanced the mirrorless will be in the future. Tested the R5 and R6 for 3 days with RF lenses but did not get impressed. Have had the D500 and used Nikon Z6Il + 70-200f2.8 on a Nikon photo walk and It was a very nice setup. Did put it against A74+Tamron 35-150 and K1-II + Pentax 70-200f2.8 and all has its plus and minus. Was a heavy day, 3 systems around my neck but fun. As you say use the system you like and train train train and the results will come. Unfortunately most people only read spec sheets before buying, if possible, rent different systems and test them out before ending up with cameras and lenses for E 10.000 and then they stay at the shelf. Dont release a Volcano, stay calm at Iceland.
All the best from Sweden another interesting photo challenge / Bengt
I think the back focus issue is probably the biggest gripe with the Nikon Z system. Canon and Sony seem to scan the full focus range to find the subject while Nikons just kind of sit where they are to search for the subject. I still love my Zs and will keep them because I prefer them to the other systems. I just learn to use my gear knowing the limitations.
Hey Drew - from the comments, it seems Canon and Sony users experience this issue too sadly.
Cool video.
Question about the D700:
Where ever I read something about the D700 people seem to mention the extraordinary color rendition of that camerabody. What is your take on that, is it as good as people tend to say or is it mostly nostalgia?
I think it’s mostly nostalgia. It feels great in the hand and at base iso the image is nice. But the quality falls away VERY QUICKLY at higher iso
The problem is they overheat when you put them in fire, they sink when you put them in water, they freeze when you put them in the icebox, and they stop working with the battery dies. Honestly disgraceful no other brand has this problem.
Nice video. I never used Z cameras, I decided to stick with DSLRs for a few years and got a D780 to replace my D5600. Both of them do this focus hunting from close to far when they can't find focus on the bird. I am impressed (negatively) that the Z cameras don't do this
What bugs me a lot about the Z9 is its price-to-performance ratio regarding ISO. It's really sad to see that old flagships like the A7sII or A7III, even more modern cameras like the Z6 and S5 beat a 6000$ camera in low-light. This to me would make it the best camera; if only it could at least be on-par with the 1000$-ish Z6.
Also, out of curiosity, have you tried working with MF lenses for bird-photography? I have been using an adapted Novolex 400mm lens (600mm also available) for many years and having gone through several tele-lenses over the years - this has always been my keeper. With an external shutter, attached to the pistol-grip, you can work entirely hands-free on the camera and the weight-distribution is a dream (no tripod needed). I work as a professional photographer and artist and have given up on AF entirely after having Nikon DSLR for many years - Not a single one of their AF lenses worked good for me (on Nikon D700/ D800) - Switched to Ai-s and other branded MF lenses and have no intention to ever return; not as long as AF still (as described in your video) seems to not work as intended. I remember many days working e.g., with the Nikon 50mm 1.4 AF, where I got so frustrated with the AF missing it's target, that I already disabled AF back then. MF on Ai-s is so much better though.
I am also curious about your usage of the 48MP on the Z9 - for your line of work, is that necessary? I find that 24MP + pixelshift when needed and/or AI-Upscaling has not once hit my sealing (I dont print beyond A0 for exhibitions, do you?)
That’s a resolution to iso ratio, rather than price to iso one. Yes I’ve used MF for birds in the past and am very satisfied with the modern kit I now use.
If one is standing on the street and scanning the sky, others may look up as well but cannot identify what the first person is looking until he/she pointing it out. That is what the System Analyst has to figure out what to do next when the Z AF is filled with out of focus objects. The possibility can be endless, such as the photographer may wish to focus at any distance from 0.1m to infinity.
One possible software solution is similar to a binary (half-interval) search by half the distance in front and back or using other search algorithms. AI with deep learning may help but not in an accidental decisive moment, such as a more interesting subject appears at random distances (big foot, accidents, etc.). As with programmable button, but some may dislike the complexity and best with common instances. Thus, Canon R3's eye tracking may be a better solution. In the meantime, we just have to be a MacGyver. 🙂
I’m happy with my Canon A-1 and Nikon FE with 35mm wide angle lenses. ❤
I have been thinking of jumping from my D810 to Z6II > but the auto focus really makes me hesitant on the upgrade.
The other issue that I've noticed is that when using strobes or sometimes flash in a medium to low light situation, If I set the camera to ASA 65 - 100 F to f11-f16 my view finder is almost black. With a DSLR, (D750 -D850), I have no problem with the optical finder. When using natural light it's great that the viewfinder shows what kind of exposure I'm going to get before I take the shot, but with strobes this just dosn't work at all. Any ideas ? Thanks
You can turn that setting off with one adjustment. Solved 👍🏼
Spot on, Matt! I discovered the problem when shooting an RC boat race with the boats careening toward me at high speed. Unfortunately I did not recognize the fix at the time. This info is gold!
And I was most amused by the off hand comment the problem "was not the sensor shield" 😂
Last observation, PLEASE tell me you will be doing another Iceland trip next year. I'd already booked another arctic trip this year. I struggled with the decision, but opted to chase polar bears vs. joining your Iceland trip...this year.
Cheers
I hope to run again in 2025 mate, tbc. You know though... 2 trips to the artic in one year is totally acceptable IMO :D
Mine too, but not quite so OK with other commitments. I will look forward to two trips north next year. Lake Clark NP in July, and hopefully your next Iceland trip.
Thanks!
I run into this very issue with birds at a distance and then having birds coming in to roost at dusk. Trying to switch over to the flying target of opportunity which is usually at closer range is a challenge. I will definitely be programming in that focus button you discussed for my trip next month to Florida birding. Thanks for the tip!
Some valid points Matt and maybe those hardware issues you mention could be sorted on the next iteration of Z bodies. One thing Nikon have been good about is their free FW updates, I'm sure with people such as yourself advocating these issues Nikon will listen and make the changes as they seem to be doing like FW 2.0 just released on the Z8.
I have the two custom front buttons on my G9 set to 'AF-ON Close' and 'AF-ON far', so it knows where to look. With contrast only it needs the assistance.
Yes, same here on mine. Use it frequently.
Valid point. Moral of the story is to focus close by and store that distance under the focus recall button.
I would want the focusing limiting switch to be different: "Full" as is today for full range and the other position of the switch to behave as "Limited" where I can set nearest and farthest focusing distance in an associated menu. My Z 105/2.8S macro lens has a valid 0.29m-0.5m limited range, but why not offer me the option to change that into 1.2m-2.4m when I use it in my studio for portraits? Same story with longer lenses. Take your 85 to a wedding. You will probably use it in the 2m-4m range (wanting 2 people in the frame, generally). Set focusing distance recall to 2m and wam bam shoot whichever.
That at 5:02 is generally a problem of all ML systems, independent of the brand. The ones more, the others less. If that focus plane is at infinity or so, they never hunt back.
Yeah I observed this … I just explain this problem to my camera n it understood. it was v easy. Now my camera does it
I’m finally switching from Nikon dslr to mirrorless but unfortunately I’m going to have to go to Sony since their lenses are much cheaper through third party which the z mount lacks. Even a 24-70 2.8 z mount is 1600 but through Sony would be 800 for sigma used. Long term a lot cheaper investment.
why can’t we just have the 3d tracking from DSLRs ported to this. that was another level!
does it have to do with the fact that the focus points were dedicated and they had this contrast detect focus points in addition to the phase detect ones ? Anyway to replicate this in mirrorless ?
The Z9/8 has 3D tracking that is so far beyond DSLR. Simply put the focus box on the subject and it tracks all over the EVF. Or tracks eyes all over the EVF. I never had the problem he speaks of using 3D tracking.
I'm new to your channel. May I know what camera you're using when you filmed this video?
Welcome! Filmed with the Nikon z9 and 24-70 f2.8. (10 bit 8k)
@@mattgranger I love the video quality. Thanks for answering my question
Started with a FE as well, and yes, stayed with Nikon, sometimes had a differnent 2nd brand, special for underwater shooting, but they do a great job!
And things like this, if they hear it, and not only from single persons, should be able to fix in a short time....
Finally someone who prounces it “Neekon” and not “Naikon” 😊
Do Nikon lenses tell the camera when they are about to hit close focus or does it see stop when the motor lugs down?
If the latter then maybe it was a power saving effort to leave it out as DSLRs didn’t have to worry so much about battery life?
Making it an option would then, as you say, make more sense but not the default which understand was in DSLRs.
I read a post recently that stated that camera consumers were unfair to expect camera manufacturers to include firmware updates for free. That opinion to me was ridiculous as those engineers are getting paid daily whether on a project or simply doing busy work. Keeping customers both happy and returning to you because you use those engineering skills towards improving both future and existing products will far outweigh the cost of having current customers from being dissatisfied and shopping competitors products that may only have one feature that checks that one box that they are currently unsatisfied with.
So for anyone who thinks that you are asking for resources to be spent (for free to customers and keep their clients happily staying with their current brand) obviously aren't looking at the big picture. Thank you for all of your years of educating us unbiasedly on the cameras that you prefer to use and why.
Hi spot on. I moved from D850/D500 to Sony A7iv and in the dslr era, I never miss birds on perch shots. Unfortunately, all mirrorless brands have this problem. If the bird is small in the frame, the cam will go to the background and stay there. Problem is that the cam thinks that its in focus (even if there are no birds there and you are in bird detection mode). I don't think the firmware can fix this as the cam dun think it is out of focus. So far I moved to A6700 and has a similar AI engine as the A7rV. Its not perfect but seemed to solve 50% of the issues. Most of the perch birds, the cam could get it, unless it is really small in the frame. I think Nikon has to go that path as well.
Left Nikon last year, now full on MFT - with OM1 and G9II. On the G9II I use the Near AF and Far AF (placed on both front function keys) that works good. On the OM1 I do not experience that specific problem (it has the very annoying problem that the tracking stops when on a bird for a stupid piece of grass or a little branch and as it looks now the Mark 1 will not get an update for that). I agree with you that it should be possible to do it automaticly.
Hope you enjoy the MFT!
I agree. It's a particular problem when using auto capture as there's no opportunity for user interention.
Right on! I have experienced the problem you talk about but have also experienced the opposite problem. That is, if I am focused near and I am trying to find a bird (or quarterback) far away, the camera can't see it and gets stuck and gives up. I actually have to find a tree or other object (something large) far away, focus on that and then go for my original subject. I read OkwyUgonweze below about setting wide area small (medium or large) and still have the same problem. Frustrating!