Man this is a good review video, I really hope these camera manufacturers look at this and step up. Most of the challenges are solvable through software engineering. Now most software engineering efforts seem to be siphoned into AF, which is just one small part of the camera experience and definitely not the one that keeps people engaged with these devices ( a) iPhone will get you much better photos of people because the device is way less intimidating and b) professional portrait shooters work with models who can freeze, c) sports and birds photography niche is not that high in consumer volume). If you make a camera that is easy to use in terms of resolving DOF challenges automatically, having a dynamic range that approaches the human eye and tackle the bracketing issues, have high quality live display information shown to user (the current state of things is horrendous IMHO), will make users more engaged in the long run with the photography.
I truly appreciate your insightful comment and the support! It's heartwarming to know that my videos resonate with fellow photographers and spark meaningful discussions about the gear we use. I hope that camera manufacturers are listening and taking note of the feedback from passionate photographers like yourself. You're absolutely right that software enhancements can address many of these issues and make a significant difference in our creative process. I agree that manufacturers seem overly focused on autofocus advancements while neglecting other crucial aspects of the photography experience. Features like improved dynamic range, intuitive live view displays, and streamlined bracketing can make a world of difference for those of us who are passionate about capturing the beauty of the natural world.
Moral to the story: don't get rid of your Z7 or D850. No perfect camera. Just the right tool for the job at hand. I like all of mine. You do make good points about some of those lacking features.
I am a long time landscape Nikon shooter and have been holding onto my D850 until Nikon can provide a camera that is both smaller/lighter and higher resolution with all the pros of mirrorless and no significant drawbacks... Still love the D850 and D810...still waiting.
I hear you loud and clear! It's a tough call because the D850 was such an amazing camera for its time with so many great features. And from this landscape photographer's POV, not much has changed. I still miss some of the D850's aspects, and if mine hadn't met an untimely demise, I'd probably still be shooting with it. I will admit that the Z glass is nice, though. It's incredibly sharp and a bit lighter than the F-mount lenses. Here's hoping Nikon will improve their mirrorless offerings and eventually deliver a true successor to the D850.
@@joshmcdzz6925 You might as well get the ii model since it has 2 card slots and 2 processors so slightly better autofocus and buffer speed. The Z7 I did have a really cool focus stacking feature that showed you a preview of what was in focus in the automated stack. God know why they removed it. Other than that, get the Z7 ii.
@@JamesLPhoto for landscape I would not make 2 card slots a priority especially owning to the fact that the xqd/cfexpress cards are very durable and resilient..
The menu system you yave recall is spot on. Im moving from a7iii and lack of physical buttons, dial is concerning. Bookmark feature rather than hard save, yup
Nikon, Canon, and Sony need to release a high resolution (60MP+) with pixel shift, high dynamic range (15+ EV), better low light and wider native ISO range, strong focusing, and other features geared specifically to landscape, portrait, and studio photographers. Most of us don't care about video that much.
I couldn't agree more! It's time for manufacturers to cater to the needs of landscape, portrait, and studio photographers with dedicated cameras that prioritize resolution, dynamic range, and other essential features.
@@JamesLPhoto Yes to cameras actually aimed at photographers. However, I really don't care a hoot about higher resolution. Yes to better focus stacking, yes to better dynamic range, yes to better viewing of depth of field etc. More pixels- not for me but then I'm not a pro so maybe that matters more to pros? I don't see it to be honest. The Z6 range of 24MP is almost good enough for A0 size images. Even bigger file sizes and slower processing aren't what I'm looking for 🙂.
Yes, yes yes to pixel shift. 8 shots equaling 3stops of noise reduction, and if great processing like the Leica/Panasonic then the potential for unprecedented quality large gallery prints.
I hope Nikon sees this video! Thanks for sharing your thoughts and experience with the camera. I'm about to buy a Z8 and there are a lot of videos telling us what's great but not many doing what you did here. I'm a nature photography with probably a 70-30 split on wildlife to landscapes so some of the negatives don't hurt my use case as much. Now that Nikon has the Z8 line it makes complete sense for them to go all out on the Z7 as a high megapixel landscape/product/marcro/studio photography camera with hardware and features geared towards needs there.
Fingers crossed Nikon is listening Good luck with your purchase; the Z8 is pretty compelling for wildlife/landscape combo. You'll enjoy the speed for sure! Appreciate your kind words!
Thr z8 is just a lighter version of the z9. Sounds like the camera you are waiting for is the z7 III. If it comes with a slightly higher resolution and/or better dynamic range with the processor and viewfinder of the z6 III, it would be a great camera.
I agree, the Z8 is essentially a lighter version of the Z9. While the Z7 III might address some of the issues I mentioned, I'm not holding my breath for significant improvements in the areas that matter most to landscape photographers. Hopefully, Nikon will surprise us with a camera that truly caters to our needs in the future.
I don't shoot Nikon but the Canon R5 instead but I completely agree with your observations. The new Canon R5 mkii feels exactly the same as the Nikon Z8, all the upgrades are geared towards sport, action, video shooters but they seemed to have completely forgotten about landscape photographers. I work as a concert photographer and I am very happy with my Canon R5 but for my landscape work I decided to build a kit with the Sony A7R V and some Tamron lenses ( 17-28mm F2.8 / 28-200mm F2.8-5.6 and 50-400mm). I think Sony is the only FF camera manufacturer that at this time is still thinking of landscape photographers, the A7R V is a superb camera, I just came back from a trip in Iceland and I only had the A7R V + the Tamron 28-200mm lens, what an amazing combo! A friend came with me to this trip and he had the Z8, which I handled and loved how it felt in the hands. We are going to exchange RAW files to compare how they edit, it'll be interesting.
Thanks for sharing your experience! It seems like many landscape photographers are finding the current offerings from Nikon and Canon to be lacking in features specifically catered towards our needs. The Sony A7R V does seem to be a strong contender for landscape work, and I'm curious to hear your thoughts on how it compares to the Z8 once you've had a chance to analyze the RAW files. Feel free to share your findings!
I have R5 and A7R5 (newly borrowed), R5 low light AF (pre-dawn darkness and after sunset) is satisfactory. EVF is way more better. But I want the 1/32000 and over 30s shutters, +- 5EV exposure compensation, fully articulated mon, open lens standard offered by Canon. A7R5 fails to focus in some low light low contrast situation. A7R5's EVF has higher resolution but the software behind it performs badly. It pixelated and kind of blurry or minecraft-similar results even slightly make it very confusing especially when half pressing the shutter (anti-flicker turned off). I don't like the S&Q not that customizable for timelapse and I am forced to use fast card even I just want to shoot low demanding timelapse video. Its interval shooting mode without card limits doesn't generate video output for me. However A7R5 has a very nice fully tilt flip monitor, 61MP, more user friendly dials and more lens to choose from. I really considered Z8 because of its spec: AF -10EV range, M mode shutter extendable to 900s, +-5 EV exposure compensation, timelapse options. But I don't like its heavy, too few dials, and some reviews is not happy about its low light AF and EVF.
Thank you. I bought the Z9 when it came out and in the end gave it up because I wanted something smaller and lighter and there was no Z8 yet and didn’t really understand why the Z7 II appeared to lag the other brands. So for landscape and other things I got a Sony A7RV to use along side my Sony A1. Your videos have been a big help for me understanding Nikon’s latest products. Will see where the go next. Will there be a Z7III? Take care.
Thanks for your kind comment. I understand your journey! It sounds like you've been navigating the mirrorless landscape and trying to find the right balance of features and portability. Hopefully things are going well for you with your Sonys. It'll be interesting to see what Nikon has in store for the future of the Z series.
@@JamesLPhoto As I get older for travel I’ve even gravitated to the new smaller Sony compact C bodies like the A7CR and A7CII with smaller lenses. I think this is a segment that Nikon should also enter. Size wise reminds me of my Nikon FM2N that I still have except it has a rangefinder type viewfinder.
Thank you for the work! I am looking for a landscape photography camera and you have cleared a few things for me as to what not to expect from a Z8, I don't view your comments as complaints but constructive criticism. I'm glad that Nikon is paying attention. I also don't want to wait 4-6 years for improvement. Keep up the good work.
The nature of a stacked sensor affects the resolution. Steve Perry said this in a YT video review of the Z6iii & showed the same graph you did. It is a drawback of stacking sensors,, but it makes for speed & he thought it was getting a lot & giving up less.
Yes, you're absolutely right. The stacked sensor design does come with some trade-offs, and the slightly lower resolution is one of them. My point is that Nikon has prioritized speed and autofocus in recent years, which benefits wildlife and sports photographers, but hasn't shown the same level of innovation for landscape photographers.
Using stacked CMOS sensor means different readout and ADC circuits. Slow sensors found on the a7RV and Z7II have the best dynamic range, the fastest global shutter a9III has the worst dynamic range. EOS R5II, R1, a9, a1, Z6III, Z8, Z9 seat somewhere in between.
Good callout on the tradeoffs. Wildlife shooters have been major upgrades over the last 6 years. Time for a little love for landscape and macro shooters.
Very good points!!! A camera is more than the headline features or a check list of functionality. One thing I do really like about the OM1 is that they actually do a pretty good job of implementing its host of features and computational modes. I also have a wish list for that camera, but not to many places where I feel they got it wrong. My biggest hope is the AF will be best in the industry. It’s already quite good but others are better in some areas.
I appreciate the thoughtful comment! It's great to hear that the video resonated with you. I agree that many of the challenges I highlighted could be addressed through better software engineering. Manufacturers seem overly focused on autofocus advancements while neglecting other crucial aspects of the photography experience. Features like improved dynamic range, intuitive live view displays, and streamlined focus stacking and bracketing can make a world of difference for those of us who are passionate about capturing the beauty of the natural world.
Thanks for this. As an old Nikon film camera user, I have toyed with the idea of a Nikon FF camera, specifically the Z8, but not after this. The execution of many of these functions on Fujifilm cameras is significantly better. DoF preview is simply a half press on the shutter release. The seven custom modes on my X-H2 (on the dial) can operate either as a bookmark or hard save depending on whether custom auto save is on or off. Then there's the full articulating screen . . . I know they're APS-C, but I'm not a pro, so I'd rather have gear that's pleasant to use vs. the bigger sensor.
I appreciate your feedback! It's great to hear that the video helped you make an informed decision. It sounds like Fuji is doing a great job in addressing the needs of photographers with features like a user-friendly DOF preview and customizable settings. It's a testament to the importance of creating cameras that prioritize user experience and cater to different shooting styles.
Haha, I knew I'd ruffle a few feathers with this one! I'm just calling it like I see it. I've got love for Nikon, too, but it's odd how some people interpret any criticism as a personal attack. There's always room for improvement, right? Thanks for the support!
Hey James .. a great video and I agree with many of the negatives as a landscape and Astro Photographer.. I would love to ask a question. Do you know if there’s an option to keep the top setting screen on while doing long exposure more than 30 seconds? My Z6II and Z7II used to show the time left (number of seconds left) but my Z8 turns off the screen after few seconds.. I do many 2 min exposure at Astro and would love to know how or is it another limitation
Thanks for your question! Yes, you can absolutely keep the top LCD screen on during long exposures. Here's how: Go to the Menu. Navigate to C3 - Power Off Delay. Set the Standby Timer to a time greater than your exposure. This will prevent the top LCD screen from turning off during long exposures, allowing you to see the remaining time and other relevant information.
@@JamesLPhoto Thanks a lot James. I will give it a go at night time and hopefully, it will take away my frustration.. funny enough, this setting isn't required in Z6II only in Z8..
Really fantastic deep dive video. Currently debating between the Z6 III and Z8 right now. Price doesn't matter for me, but I would prefer the smaller size and weight of the Z6 III but prefer the higher resolution and lack of flickering video issues and better dynamic range in the Z8. I'm glad you talked about the Bookmarks vs Hard Saves issue, most reviewers don't talk about that, and it's a pretty important difference in philosophy. Having used both styles before, if I had to choose one, I prefer the Bookmark system of last used settings especially in this era of shooting both photos and video and being able to turn the camera off to conserve battery life in the middle of shoots without losing the last used settings. But as you said, there's no reason we HAVE to choose. I would love for Nikon to implement a body that can do both, that would be the best of both worlds. Especially in a body as big as a Z8, there should be button room for both. Nikon if you're going to make your bodies bigger and heavier than Canon, then give us some extra reasons for it!
Thanks for your kind words! I'm glad the video helped shed light on the nuanced differences between the Z6 III and Z8. It's a tough choice, but both cameras have their strengths. You bring up an excellent point about the Bookmarks vs. Hard Saves debate. I think having the option for both would be ideal, allowing photographers to choose the system that best suits their workflow. Hopefully, Nikon will consider this in future models. I agree with your sentiment about the Z8's size. If Nikon is going to make their bodies larger, they should definitely pack them with features that justify the extra bulk!
This is 100% on point. This resonates with my experience and reaction. The only thing I don’t agree with is the request for a flippy screen… I don’t like those for my work. I also do love the pixel shift, but I think you made this video before that firmware update. The focus stacking implementation is like a quick fix. I also really wish they have the Live view capture for long exposures that the Olympus have. Nikon is just not a “great experience” camera like the Fujifilms, but rather a workhorse that’s built like a tank and delivers beautiful files.
Thanks for your kind words and thoughtful reply. Pixel shift is great, but I don't get to use it much outdoors in nature. I agree that some of these could be improved via the software, and hope Nikon starts to put a little more effort into the menus and usability.
Love your video! I was wondering if you have shot on the new R5ii? I’m looking at that but reviews say it has “terrible” low light performance but as someone looking to step up from 24mp crop dslr I’m guessing these “terrible” performance is only noticeable to pixel peeping pros? 🤷🏻♂️ hard to cut through all the BS “honest” reviews but your videos seems very balanced so your opinion definitely would help. Thank you
I haven't had a chance to test the R5ii yet, but from what I've heard, it's just a modest upgrade from the original R5, not a groundbreaking one. Sorry for the delay and wish I had more solid info for you.
The bookmark (vs hard save), DR, Tilting screen and DR has kept me from moving from my Sony A7RV. IMO, this maybe a better camera for you to try out (added it a bit smaller size like the Z7).
I completely agree with your assessment! The Sony A7R V is a compelling option for landscape photographers, especially with its higher resolution and impressive dynamic range. If it weren't for my extensive investment in Nikon lenses, I'd definitely be considering a switch.
Good for you pointing out issues with your go to camera l sent Canon an email on my disappointment in the R7 and my hope that a mark ii is much improved.
@@JamesLPhoto it really did! Those things you said that were annoying are things I use often so I figured why intentionally cause myself irritation. (I get frustrated easily) lol so anything that makes it easier is a plus! I do wish the R5ii had the flip screen like the z8 though! Simple yet affective, don’t need to pull out, rotate etc
As a D850 and Z7 owner with a mix of "F" and "Z" mount lens you gave me something to think about. I was contemplating trading in both for Z8 body later this year, but as primarily a landscape shooter I'm now going to double think it. The reduced dynamic range was a deal breaker for me as small as it may be. Thank you
I hear you! Dynamic range is crucial for landscape shooters, and even a small decrease can be noticeable. It's good you're weighing your options carefully.
D850 has 14.8 stops of DR, whereas Z7 has 14.6 stops of DR and Z8 has 14.2 DR specially for Land Scape ...checked on DXO mark...firstly I was also disappointed by seeing this z8 DR only 0.2 stops more than Nikon D7500. Its not much concerning as Z8 has other gr8 features which compensate their value as per price
@@Jackourd what do you need the dynamic range for especially when you shoot digital photography? Do you know how to bracket shots and merge them in post? For people shot, have you considered artificial lighting? Dynamic range in any modern digital camera from APS-C to medium format is almost the same..
@@joshmcdzz6925 ha ha..are you really a photographer...these almost means alot in difference.. I know bracketing, I know HDR and I know how to use It...well you can't use bracketing in all kinds of shoots, it's limited when the subject is still, I do shoot Weddings and also landscape and wildlife too ...u said about APS-C so let me tell you frend those sensors are gr8 in DR but the lenses designed for APS-C cameras have less T-Stops in comparison to FF lenses ...the f2.8 of any crop sensor lens have equals to F4.6 in FF .. there is many more thing to consider...I think u jst follow what other youtubers says and your follow others to develop ur skills ...I do research and many other tests to find the results...
you nailed it!! love my Z8 for the speed, AF, and file qhuality but are extremly anoyed by the useless bookmarksystem. D7200 had the best implementation of memory settings....you could update lolike bookmark as long as you did not shut off...once shut off it went back to the hard save values
Nice video, thanks! I own the same Nikon cameras, plus an OM..M10. I had a 1 year frustration with a Canon R5 which is ergonomically a good camera, unfortunately the lenses (15-35 f/2.8, 24-105 f/4 and 16 f/2.8) were disappointing for landscape. The Nikon Z7 II is a fantastic camera for landscape and travel. The Z8 is a great replacement of the D850 for action / wildlife / events where good focusing abilities and silent shutter are a real bonus. The D850 did a good job too in action and wildlife, but it i just too loud. The Nikon Z lenses, especially the 14-24 and the 24-120, are incredible. That said, I totally share your critique. Well, except that I didn't find the dynamic range an issue. And that I prefer the tilting screens over any flip-out screen. Each to his own, I guess.
Thanks for sharing your experience! It's great to hear from someone who also uses a variety of camera systems. I agree that the Z7 II and Z8 are both excellent cameras, each with its own strengths. And I respect your preference for tilting screens - it's all about finding what works best for your workflow!
Very nicely explained. Being a hobby all types shooter don’t understand all points . I need some suggestion if getting z8 used at same new price of z6iii which is preferred ?? I have d750 long time . Bought Z7ii but the raw pictures of people are so noisy in normal light conditions that I have to denoising them that hard to do for the family and friends pictures in some gatherings and then give them for free. So I sell it. We do shoot landscape/ sun rises during winters. Also birding and wild life is a hobby and some chance get to shoot F1 by d750. So is it good to have z6ii or Z6iii or z8. Don’t want more time to spend on Lightroom. Z7ii out of camera portrait are very good in jpeg. When shooting in LCD I can see nice pictures. But raw noisy. Thanks 🙏
Thanks for your kind words. Think about your specific needs and then determine the most critical features for your photography. From there, you can compare cameras on a site like this: cameradecision.com/compare/Nikon-Z6-Mark-III-vs-Nikon-Z7-Mark-II
Good thing that there are many camera brands to please every one. I definitely do not want more megapixel sensors but I can see how other may want more. The flip screen seems split with photographers. I heard so many photographers say that don’t want flip screen as much as those who want it. I do want integrated GPS. To be fair it works fine in combination with the iPhone app. It automatically connects without even needed to open the app on the phone. But native GPS would be better. May be a Z7III will be the landscape master. Z8 is more of a hybrid camera.I think Z7III should be high MP for landscape photographers
I appreciate your feedback! It's true that different photographers have different preferences, and there's no one-size-fits-all camera. I personally prefer a fully articulating screen for its versatility, but I respect that others may feel differently. I agree that integrated GPS would be a valuable addition, and while the iPhone app is a workaround, a native solution would be convenient. I'm hopeful that Nikon will address some of these concerns in future models, whether it's the rumored Z7 III or another camera entirely. The Z8 is a great all-around camera, but there's definitely room for improvement in the landscape photography department.
You're welcome! I'm glad you found the review valuable. Honest and balanced feedback is essential for making informed decisions about gear, especially when it comes to significant investments like the Z8.
1. You can use the front and rear dials to quickly go through every option in your i-menu. Just hover over the box and you dont have to press okay into it. Just hover and use the dials. 2. Nikon designs their own sensors and gets Sony to fabricate them. I love DR as much as the next guy but if I had to choose between a tiny bit of extra DR with Sony or sticking with Nikon's color science i'll take the colors every day. 3. Yup. Nikons focus stacking isnt the best. It works but you really gotta know what you are doing and its sorta annoying to pull off correctly. 4. Articulating screens are a subjective opinion. I mostly do events and concerts. My rear screen would have broken on an articulating hinge multiple times by now. I wont be buying a Z6iii because of it, and i've seen Canon's break in a photo pit because of it. Z8/9's is the most robust and overbuilt hinge on the market which is also sorta to its detriment. Its sometimes a little clumsy to move but I also know it can survive a boot kicking it. 5. Nikon please fix your dang DOf preview. Its probably something to do with AF ability at lower F stops.
Thanks for sharing those tips! I'm aware of the dial navigation in the i-menu, but it still doesn't replace the convenience and speed of a dedicated mode dial for switching custom settings. I appreciate your insights on the sensor and screen design choices, and I agree that the DOF preview needs improvement.
You can assing button for custom settings change. I use it on my Z9 )) And one more - I need to mention that 20FPS is usefull when you are lazy to take out your tripod, because of low shutter speeds. Because there is no shutter and shuttercount issue with Z8 - just use 10 or 20FPS and then use the sharpest image. I was able to get sharp images with 1/5 shutter and 400mm, without tripod.
You're absolutely right, the high frame rate is incredibly useful for capturing sharp images in low light or with longer lenses, even without a tripod. It's one of the Z8's standout features, and I highlighted it in my previous video on the things I love about the camera. While you can assign a button to change custom settings, it's not quite as convenient as having a dedicated dial for quick access. But I appreciate you sharing your workaround with the Z9! It's always helpful to hear how other photographers are adapting to the camera's features.
It's a nice distinction to say "zoom" about what the lens does and "magnify" (on screen) when looking at details in an image. It was quite confusing that while you are zooming in on a zoom lens, you can not use the depth of field preview.
While it's true that you can take test shots to check your settings, the point of a depth of field preview is to quickly assess your depth of field before taking the shot. This is especially useful in situations where you need to make quick decisions or when you're working with fast-moving subjects.
@@davidmccoy1378 Ideally, the preview wouldn't be limited to f/5.6. From what I know, Sony and Canon cameras show the DOF of your settings without needing to press the DOF button, which saves time and effort (something I didn’t have to do on my D850). While pressing the DOF button isn't a huge deal, the real issue is not being able to zoom while previewing DOF. This limitation makes it harder to make precise adjustments, which can be crucial in achieving the desired shot.
I would love option to turn it off! For example, if I am using 85 1.2s, but I want to use it at f8 in studio, where modelling lights isn't super bright, focus becomes an issue because its focusing through f5.6 not 1.2s, through 1.2s would be much faster.
@@JamesLPhoto I apologize in advance for beating a dead horse, but the only "precise adjustments" to make are the aperture and shutter speed. Maybe best to bracket anyway to allow you to have more options back in the studio. Easier to determine which version has met the precise needs with a larger monitor. We can't escape that the computer is part of our digital workflow. Best to capture as many options as possible in the field.
I do landscape, woodland so I stoped with a new D850. Next camera will be a Nikon 60 Mpix for landscape or a Fuji GFX 100S system. The problem with the F-system is that there is no 105mm E micro lens. I use D700, D800E and now D850. I hate focus stacking.
@thomaseriksson6256 If you hate focus stacking you're in for a world of hurt w/ the GFX cameras. I love my GFX100s but be prepared even at 23mm (18 equivalent) f/16 you'll likely need to take at least 2 exposures and merge to get a deep scene sharp front to back. That isn't terrible IMO. If you're shooting around 45mm (35 equivalent) you'll need around 3 to 4 depending on f stop. By 63mm (50 equivalent) you'll be taking 8 or more shots when shooting at f/8.0 to get a scene sharp front to back sometimes more. I've come home w/ 9+ shots of a scene only to find I missed an area.... Diffraction set in on the GF lenses at f/16 and the GF lenses are typically most sharp between f5.6 to f/8.0 all will have fairly thin DOF at any focal length beyond ultra wide. If you're ok w/ acceptable sharpness in the background then the ultrawide lenses can get you fairly decent single exposures. Just word of caution if you're considering dropping that kind of money, rent before you buy.
@@sequoi_ Thank you for a great feedback. Currently having problems with an old computer that cannot handle windows 11, so I need to update it. Been thinking about this lately and have come to the conclusion that I need to get used to my new Nikon D850 and updated lenses that I bought last year. I think D850 can handle F11 at 45 Mpix. I totally went over my planned budget during the equipment update. Now I also need to look for alternatives to my old photoshop as I will not pay per month to use the new PS. My old PS computer PSU has broken so I need new software. I've never done focus stacking but it's on my to-do list. I'm probably more of a creative photographer than a methodical high-quality photographer, which is a problem for taking landscape pictures.
The screen preference is definitely subjective! I'm hoping the Z7 III, or perhaps a new camera line altogether, will address the needs of landscape photographers and offer features like a high-resolution sensor, improved dynamic range, and a more intuitive user interface.
Thank you for your kind words and support. I’m glad you enjoyed it! Agree with you. I suppose it makes financial sense from Nikon’s perspective, but I hope they consider us more seriously in future releases.
You can't have a button for settings, but there is one for changing shooting banks. It is unfortunate that Recall will change settings dynamically. If Nikon added a customization option to prevent this, that would be a major improvement.
Yea, nice call-out. And while changing shooting banks via one of the Fn buttons is certainly better than nothing, as you indicated, it's not perfect since it only changes the Shooting Bank, not the Settings Bank. Another benefit of a physical mode button is the visual confirmation it provides. With one, you don't need to touch the screen or press the button to see what mode your cameras is in. The Z8's top LCD shows what mode you're in, but it is hard to see.
I appreciate your honesty. My goal is not to dissuade anyone from buying the Z8, but to provide a balanced perspective so potential buyers can make informed decisions. The Z8 is a great camera, but it's not perfect, and it's essential to weigh its pros and cons against your specific needs and priorities.
Agree with some of these (no hardware switch for shooting banks??)… less so with others (I’ll never take an off-axis fully articulating screen vs the beautiful on-axis tilt the Z8 has) Hopefully Nikon sees this and can help via firmware on the issues that really have no reason not to be fixed (dof preview, pic in pic, etc).
I appreciate your feedback! It's great to hear your thoughts on the screen articulation. Personally, I find the fully articulating screen more versatile for my needs, but it's a matter of preference. And I agree, Nikon should be able to fix some of these issues, like the DOF preview, Split Screen, and Focus Stacking improvements through firmware updates. But I won't be holding my breath.
Whwn you use a stacked CMOS, it will generally have lower dynamic range than non stacked sensor. The A7 III non stacked sensor has more dynamic range and noise performance than flagship A9. I believe Nikon still uses Sony sensors. The Sony's sensor division is separate from its camera division.
I find the larger screen a nice to have but not a need to have. I would definitely prefer a mode dial (for changing custom modes) with a smaller screen.
I absolutely love the top screen (and I'm also just used to it from having it for so many years). It's nice to have all that information densely packed in one place for quick glances. You bring up a good question though, is it better to have more controls, especially now that cameras can do more things with advances in technology, and since you can look at a lot of the top LCD information in both the back screen and EVFs now. It probably WOULD be better to have more controls I think. Cameras that lack the top display though, often don't have more controls, they have the same or less because they are lower-priced cameras that the manufacturer wants to cripple to differentiate pricing better, or just because they want to simplify controls for more novice shooters who are more likely buying the entry-level cameras.
@@outofabook I agree with you there. The top LCD screen is definitely a nice feature, especially for quickly checking settings or shooting information. And I do think that having more physical controls would be even more beneficial, especially as camera technology continues to advance. There's only so much room, so it's always a balancing act. Interesting points I hadn't considered. Cheers.
I am not sure why you upgraded from the Z7 to a Z8 for landscape photography. I upgraded because I shoot wildlife (birds), street, and landscape. For me, the Z8 is a huge upgrade. I would have stuck with the Z7 if I was only shooting landscape.
The Z8 replaced my D850, which was damaged. I also shoot video where the Z8 excels. This review is primarily for fellow landscape shooters. I consider features like backlit buttons essential for a professional landscape camera, which the Z7 lacks.
@@JamesLPhotojust imagine the horror show if they prioritized dynamic range over speed. All the bent lines all the blur, all the motion problems. Even slightly changing the orientation of the camera would result in crazy in camera distortions. I'll take prioritizing speed over dynamic range anytime.
The d850, as well as the z7/z7ii will be better for landscape stills, Ot has slightly better DR and higher IQ due to the non-stacked sensor. Sensor read-out speed and DR are diametrically opposed, Ot is always a trade-off game between those two. I also enjoy the photos out of d850 over that of my z8/z9 where landscape photography is concerned, but on the other hand, as fast-action hybrids, they are superb.
You bring up an excellent point about the trade-offs with stacked sensors. It's a balancing act between speed and image quality, and it seems Nikon is leaning towards speed for the Z8. It probably makes sense for them to focus more on wildlife and sports and event photography economically, but I wish they would consider landscape photographers more like Sony does. I agree, for pure landscape image quality, the Z7 and D850 might still have the edge in some areas.
Bookmark settings are so much better than a hard save. Relode the settings from your quick menu to reset hard settings. It's much more versatile. I also have a Z8 and OM-1. The OM-1 is my macro demon. Full frame will never be as good for extreme macro. No full frame camera on the market has the computational capability of the OM-1. Not fare to compare the Z8 to the OM-1.
I clearly stated in the video that both systems have their pros and cons, and I personally prefer hard saves. The comparison of the $4k Z8 to the $2K OM-1 is valid because it highlights the innovative features that other manufacturers are implementing, which Nikon could learn from. Sure, some of those features are easier to implement on smaller resolution MFT sensors, but many are simply better software and user experience design.
That’d be amazing if the Z8 could process focus stacked images in-camera. I didn’t know Olympus cameras could do that, though I’m not surprised because Oly has amazing features.
I completely agree! In-camera focus stacking would be a game-changer. Olympus has definitely been pushing the boundaries with innovative features like that.
@@JamesLPhoto The reason that only Olympus focus stacks in-camera is because they were first to it and have a patent for that. If it weren't for the patent, other camera companies would have in-camera focus stacking too, but in order to not get sued they have to make do with giving us at-home computer software to focus stack instead.
@@outofabook that's a great point and mirrors what a Nikon rep told me. To be honest, the Om-1's in-camera stacking and resulting JPEG isn't the most robust anyway. It's limited to 15 frames and the software significantly crops to make the stacking easy to do in camera. You can definitely get better results and deeper stacks manually blending raw images in post. The two biggest issues I have with the Nikon's focus-stacking is the lack of ability to trigger it with a physical button and the inability to see the stack as being shot. And these two features are found on other cameras so I think they're not limited by patents.
Higher resolution doesn't create more diffraction, it simply reveals the diffraction that's already present at smaller apertures. More megapixels provides the flexibility to capture incredible detail, crop creatively, and produce large, stunning prints that showcase the beauty of the scene. While a faster sensor is certainly advantageous for certain types of photography, sacrificing resolution and dynamic range for speed feels like a missed opportunity for landscape shooters.
Wow, I never thought a Nikon Z8 nature photographer would give so much credit to the MFT OM-1. I know its a fantastic camera, but everyone is hyping the Z8 so much I thought it was better than those kwerks.
The OM-1 is a fantastic camera, and it definitely punches above its weight in certain areas. While the Z8 has its strengths, it's important to recognize that other brands are innovating and offering compelling features that Nikon could learn from.
Cameras today are complex enough that foremost thing to do is get yourself familiar with the tech (mpix count and DR), secondly - you need to read the manual, half of your frustrations are fixable, but you don't know how (dark lcd while stacking, custom setting banks reseting...).
Cameras today are indeed complex, and I agree that people should read the manual and work to understand their gear. But I wonder if your comment is directed towards me. None of the points I cover could be fixed by changing a setting. "Dark LCD" during automated stacking is not a setting; it's how focus attacking works on the Z8. And, of course, you can reset Custom Settings Banks. But you have to reset ALL settings-there's no option to reset just one bank.
Yes, lower dynamic range and limited megapixels. What you seem to not understand is that the amazing speed provided by this camera is obtained by the use of a stacked sensor. All stacked sensors, will by necessity, have a slight reduction in dynamic range. Such is the trade off accepted to obtain class leading fast action performance desired for shooting birds and sports. Such camera are not designed to be class leading slow action cameras desired for shooting landscapes. To expect the same camera to be class leading in both landscape and fast action is unreasonable.
You raise a valid point about the trade-offs inherent in stacked sensors. However, my critique isn't about expecting a single camera to excel in every genre. It's about Nikon's decision to prioritize speed and video features in the Z8, which were already well-covered by the Z9, rather than focusing on advancements that would benefit landscape photographers. For the price point and target audience, I believe Nikon could have done a better job balancing speed and image quality. In the past, Nikon offered distinct camera lines catering to different genres-the D4/D5/D6 series for sports and wildlife photographers and the D800/D810/D850 series for landscape and portrait photographers. This allowed them to specialize the features and capabilities of each line to better suit the needs of their respective users. The Z7 is missing key pro features, so it's more like a D600/D750. This time, however, Nikon had built a great camera in the Z9 for speed, but instead of making one specifically for landscape photographers, they just released a smaller form factor Z9 a year and a half later in the Z8 Hopefully, Nikon will take note of the feedback from landscape photographers and develop a camera that truly caters to our specific needs in the future.
GFX camera is better value now and the image quality blows the NikonZ cameras out of the water for landscape. Photography and the sensor has improved a lot in the GFX cameras. You can do some action stuff now with the two new models. They are expensive but oh my goodness, once you've held one and played with it you won't be using Z camera I guarantee you.
I completely agree! The fully articulating screen is a fantastic feature for landscape photography, and Sony's implementation is top-notch. Seems like the camp is pretty split on this one, so I doubt we'll see this on a Nikon anytime soon.
Many of the settings you hate are carryovers from the D850 and other pro DSLR bodies, particularly the bookmark custom and shoot settings. Many pro shooters prefer these. The advantage over the Z7 hard settings is that you have control during shoot and more settings you can save. With the Z6/7 every time you turn the camera off it resets to the hard saves, particularly a pain with a mirrorless camera where conserving battery life is important. With the Z8, if you change settings during a shoot they will remain when you turn the camera off, and if you have saved them to your cards, you can recall the saved settings anytime you want to get back to your original settings. I much prefer this over the Z7
@@ericlarson6180 Appreciate your perspective and I agree that Nikon's bookmark system is something that many photographers prefer. I enjoy that flexibility to some extent myself. But I wish I could choose rather than that choice being decided for me. Sony and Canon and other manufacturers use the hard save. I wish Nikon would allow us to choose which system we prefer specifically because different photographers prefer different workflows. What I like about the z7 is that it offers a physical mode dial. It's a pain to dive into the menu every time I want to switch.
@@JamesLPhoto I couldn't agree more, I want the camera OUT OF THE WAY as much as possible. IMO Fuji has nailed the camera experience including an up to a professional level as you have the option to use bookmark method or hard saves + PSAM dial retains custom modes which makes switching on the fly super easy and reliable. If only Nikon and Fuji would make a FF baby together....
These negatives are true on paper, if you keep comparing to everything that comes out all the time. I reject the lack of dynamic range, that is something other people measure since it very small in practice.
Indeed, things are constantly improving, so I understand that perspective. But I'm not comparing the Z8 to the latest; I'm comparing it to the six-year-old D850 and four-year-old Z7. Over that time, the resolution remained unchanged and the dynamic range actually decreased.
For my Milky Way Photography , African Wild Life Photography, African Landscapes , Portraits and Birds in Flight , My Z8 in conjunction with the 20mm f1.8 S , 24-120 f4 S and 180-600 f5.6 lenses I have a POWER SYSTEM with Zero Cons . Best Nikon camera I have ever had since 1971 and my previous 2 cameras were Z7 and D850 . The Z8 kills them in my Use and kills the Oposition as well >> I am happy and sad to see you sweating the small stuff. I am 74 and find the Z8 is smaller than the mid weight D850 >> the Perfect camera
Agree, sweat the small stuff, If you want to find fault with any modern-day camera, seriously, you did not learn the craft with a film camera with manual focus lenses.
@@jakesdewet3567 I learned on film cameras, and while I appreciate the nostalgia, technology has evolved, and so have our expectations for modern cameras. It's valid to critique features that could be improved, even if they seem minor compared to the limitations of older gear.
I appreciate your perspective! I'm glad the Z8 is working so well for you across various genres. However, for landscape photographers who rely heavily on features like focus stacking and dynamic range, these "small stuff" issues can become significant hurdles in their workflow.
You're using a 35mm camera for pro landscape photography? And complaining about having to plan the image? Try using a 4x5 camera with transparency film delivering 5 stops of dynamic range!
I understand the sentiment behind your comment, but it misses the point. It's reasonable to expect that a new camera, especially one with a premium price tag, will offer significant advancements over its predecessors. For wildlife, sports and action photographers, that's a reality, but for landscape photographers not much has changed. Technological advancements allow us to push the boundaries of what's possible in photography. While we can appreciate the craft and skill involved in using older equipment, it doesn't mean we should stop striving for improvement. Ansel Adams' tripod probably weighed 20 pounds, but that shouldn't stop manufacturers from making new ones lighter. It's like saying we shouldn't use cars because horses worked just fine for centuries. Yes, people got around, but advancements in transportation have undeniably improved our lives and opened up new possibilities. The Z8 is a powerful camera, but it's not perfect. My review is about highlighting areas where it could be improved, especially for landscape photographers. It's not about dismissing its capabilities or suggesting that it can't produce stunning images. It's about acknowledging that even the best cameras can have shortcomings, and there's always room for innovation and improvement.
There is a saying: "You date the cameras, but you marry the lenses". You made no mention of choosing F mount glass or Z mount glass in your camera decisions. How would that affect your recommendations?
You're right, lens choice is a crucial factor in any camera system decision. I've been a Nikon shooter for years and had amassed a collection of F-mount lenses that I've been slowly offloading. While the Z glass is undoubtedly superior in many ways, it's still frustrating that Nikon's current mirrorless options don't fully capitalize on the potential of those lenses.
I think you’re confusing product lines. The Z8/Z9 series are flagship hybrid cameras that need to meet very high video specs to compete with rival cameras. The Z7 is the photo-focused series which requires the highest dynamic range, color depth etc. The Z8/Z9 is not meant as a replacement or improvement over whatever the Z7 iii will be they are designed from the ground up with a completely different list of requirements and can therefore afford to compromise on various other things that even the Z7 ii is better suited for. That being said. Any of these cameras already have higher dynamic range than 35mm film by a significant margin so DR isn’t a real issue unless you’re putting yourself in terrible or impossible situations.
I appreciate your perspective, but I believe you're missing the core of my critique. The Z8 was meant to be the mirrorless replacement for the D850. And the Z8 was indeed marketed towards landscape photographers, with Nikon emphasizing its versatility and capabilities in various genres. However, it falls short in several key areas that are crucial for landscape photography, making it less than ideal for this specific niche. Let's be real: Nikon didn't "create" the Z8 as much as they stripped away a few features from the 1.5 year year-old Z9 and put them in a smaller body. There has been no improvement in image quality in any of Nikon's cameras over more than 6 years. That lack of innovation and decision to focus on speed at the cost of image quality is what I'm critiquing. While it's true that stacked sensors offer welcome benefits for speed and video, the trade-offs in dynamic range and resolution are significant for landscape photographers. Nikon has historically offered distinct camera lines catering to different genres, like the D800 series for landscape and the D5 series for sports. The Z7 also does not improve on image quality, despite it being "designed from the ground up." And the Z7 is missing several pro features that even the D850 had. In addition to image quality stagnation, the lack of innovation in features like focus stacking, split-screen view, and depth of field preview, is a legitimate concern for many landscape photographers.
@@JamesLPhoto I think it's a great conversation to have but I just don't think that's accurate. The Z8 is a completely new product line that has branched off from the Z9 to provide hybrid shooters the option of the top of the line flagship functionality in a smaller package suitable for gimbal use and other smaller builds. The 7 series seems very clearly the successor from the start of the D850 replacement. They obviously did have to make some compromises since they were dead last in the mirrorless compared to the competition, but in fact, the Z7 and Z7ii both map 1:1 with the DR curve of the D850. It gave up some features but also offered a great deal more flexibility and features by doing so with a mirrorless offering at a higher megapixel density. But I think its very clear that the Z8 is an entirely new category of camera for Nikon and not a D850 replacement as you'll see the Z8 line always feature their top of the line video features while the Z7 line will continue to be more photo focused with highest DR.
@@JamesLPhoto And I think Nikon realizes how important the new Z8 product line is as it will be primarily the answer to Sony's A7R line. Canon is a little funny this way because they never bothered to split product lines this way and the R5 line is a clear hybrid focused camera that's not focused on winning on megapixels but doing everything else exceptionally well, except thermal management.
@@MojoPapiFPV You make a good point that the Nikon product line is evolving, and their mirrorless line is branching away from their DSLR lineup. My principal argument is this: the landscape photography community was impressed by the D850, but it's now been over 6 years, and there has yet to be much substantial improvement, whether in the Z7 or the Z8. This lack of progress is particularly disappointing when compared to the significant strides made by other manufacturers, like Sony, in specs and features that matter to landscape photographers. Yes, Nikon has clearly chosen to prioritize speed and video. Just think about the differences between the D5 (2016) and the Z9 (2021)...over that five-year timeframe, there were HUGE improvements. Significant upgrades occurred even between the D6 (2020) and the Z9 (2021)! But for the features that matter to landscape photographers (image quality, focus stacking, DOF preview, split screen, etc.), there's been no change, or it's worse. To me, and many other landscape photographers, that is unacceptable.
@@JamesLPhoto Very true. My guess is they made and focused on the changes they needed to prioritize to be competitive and stay alive as a company when they're far behind in marketshare and until the Z9 had little to offer *most* photographers to set them apart. I think they made the right choices and are clearly reaping the benefits financially. There are tons of things that annoy me about my Zs and I wish I had an ear at Nikon. But I also get to week after week work in advertising and editorial environments with Fuji, Canon and Sony and can list shortcomings and complaints I have about every single camera. Photography is about compromise. You want low ISO? You're going to have to give up shutter or aperture, etc. I definitely can't pretend to know anything about what it's like to be a landscape photographer or the niche things that may require but I would guess its a very small percentage of the customer base for Nikon which makes it even tougher. I would think brands like Olympus would be a much better fit community-wise and also in terms of DoF with a far smaller sensor - but then we get to compromises again and you're forced to sacrifice a couple of stops of DR. Again, without being in that space I would also imagine that this niche is more "print" focused which would lead me to suggest Fuji w/ 16bit color and 100MP files for anyone going down that path. Like I said, the conversation is super interesting to me and I'm curious to see what Nikon will do and improve on the Z7iii whenever that lands. I would hope the jump to Sony's 60MP sensor, since I doubt there's much more headroom in DR to achieve on 35mm sensors for some time. Seems like we haven't cracked the 12-stop mark yet and the direction of the tech might indicate less focus on trying to get there than possibly incorporating a global shutter in the next flagship (acquisition of Red + Sony's A9iii). Selfishly, I want this more than anything because of the endless possibilities it affords me and other photographers in portraiture, fashion and advertising. Either way I'm excited to see how it all plays out. BTW, the only time I've been on a job with focus stacking (watch company), they were using Helicon for that and not relying on the camera to do it. From my understanding, this is still the "standard" for whatever that's worth. As far as DR, if you're waiting on that, I would say move to Fuji now. You'll get 50% more light (.5 stop) increase in DR but only at base ISO. By ISO 200 on the Fuji GFX 100 series you're already in Nikon/Sony territory. If you find yourself shooting above base ISO for most of your landscape, don't bother unless its about the Megapixels or color depth for you.
Haha, it's easy to miss some of the hidden features and quirks. That's why I wanted to make this video, to help people get a better understanding of the Z8's strengths and weaknesses.
and yet Ansel Adams did so much with so little and he only had a shutter, shutter release, a decent lens and a piece of film he had to load one at a time....
While it's true that photographers like Ansel Adams created incredible images with limited technology, that doesn't mean we shouldn't strive for better tools today. Technological advancements have allowed us to push the boundaries of creativity and capture images that were previously impossible. It's like saying we should be content with driving 1950s cars because people got around just fine back then. My goal with this review is not to complain for the sake of it or to question the Z8's ability to take good photos. It's to provide an honest assessment of the camera's strengths and weaknesses, just like a car review would highlight both the pros and cons of a vehicle. I believe this information is valuable for viewers who are considering investing in a Z8 and want to make an informed decision.
@@JamesLPhoto I also have a Z8, although I wished I could of had the z9 but money is money, I love my Z8 I shoot portraiture and sports photography, I also kept my D850, I dont think I will sell it.. The Z8 for me fills my needs a actual in use 10-20 fps great Af, compared to the Z8 really the same camera just faster AF and fps...also claimed that it would be nice to have 61 meg resolution fine, as long as you have the glass that would make the bump really worth it..or is the glass there right now to really see a difference???
@@Mikefarwell-67 Without a camera with higher resolution to confirm, all I can offer is some logic: there was a noticeable difference in sharpness with my best F-mount lenses when I moved from the 36MP D810 to the 45MP D850. The D850 was a big enough bump in resolution to notice that some of my lower quality F-mount lenses weren't capable of resolving all of those megapixels. But the Z glass is, in general, better than the F-Mount, including being sharper, so I have to believe a bump in resolution would be recognizable with the sharpest Z glass.
@@Mikefarwell-67 As a landscape shooter, I transitioned away from the 70-200 years ago, preferring longer focal lengths like the 100-400. If I was carrying a 70-200, it would be an f/4 because it would be lighter and just as sharp at f/8. Check out a direct comparison and see if you think those differences are worth it to your specific style of photography. www.dxomark.com/Lenses/Compare/Side-by-side/Nikon-NIKKOR-Z-70-200mm-F28-VR-S-on-Nikon-Z7-versus-Nikon-AF-S-Nikkor-70-200mm-F28-G-ED-VR-II-on-Nikon-D810__2058_1270_406_963
As 2 Z8 owner, Here are cons of z8 - 1. AF could be more precise 2. Banding problems with LED, flash lights using high shutter speeds 3. no RAW in pre capture mode. 4. no medium size RAW, like Z7ii 5. no option to turn off DOF - For example, if I am using 85mm 1.2s, but I want to use it at f8 in studio, where modelling lights isn't super bright, focus becomes an issue because its focusing through f5.6 not 1.2s, through 1.2s would be much faster. Otherwise, superb camera for me. Size wise, perfect. Z7ii was to small, I used it with grip and then its too big. Nikon android app needs work.
Some really great call-outs of several perennial (and pretty inexcusable) Nikon shortcomings as well as a couple new ones. Really good stuff. But man, just delete the section at the beginning comparing specs. If you're going to stop with "this number is smaller than that one" without explaining the MANY dimensions of quality and utility behind those numbers, it just sounds like vendor bashing or simply that you don't know what you're talking about.
Thanks for the feedback! I appreciate you finding the critique helpful. The specs overview at the beginning might seem like simple vendor bashing, but my intention was to provide a quick reference point before diving deeper into the specific features and shortcomings that are more relevant to landscape photographers.
I went from the Z6ii to Z8 when the Z8 was released and still miss the User settings and command dial to switch to different user modes in under a second (or switch between modes when the camera is off). It's so clunky to change settings via the screen/EVF. The other things don't really bother me, but those bank settings... ugh.
I agree-the lack of a dedicated user settings dial, and the clunkiness of changing modes on the Z8 are major drawbacks. It's a simple thing that could make a massive difference in the user experience, especially for photographers who frequently switch between different shooting scenarios. Nikon designed an incredible wildlife, events, and videography camera in the Z9. Two years later, they released the Z8 as a slightly watered-down version of the same camera rather than designing a new camera specifically for landscape photographers. The D850 was a landmark camera for us, and it's disappointing that six years later, we're still waiting for a true successor that caters to our specific needs. Hopefully, Nikon will deliver a dedicated landscape camera in the future!
I own the Z9 (and shoot sports, action, wildlife - for the most part). Completely understand some of these frustrations. I personally had to lay out an Excel spreadsheet because of the extensive menu system - for creating 4 banks - and keeping most of the settings the same so that switching banks didn't drive me insane. That works out well, but I also would prefer a hard save. In the meantime, I make sure to always, after shooting, copy my settings on the card back to the camera, download the files, then format the card, and resave the settings - so, as you say, you can always come back to the same place. I also take out the primary card and back it up to the secondary card as well. Inevitably, the increased noise at lower ISOs comes from increased front end read noise from the stacked sensor (fast readout) and the fact that the sensor is always on - encouraging things like Amp Glow, Dark Current, etc. I'm not an engineer, but this would seem logical. At higher ISOs, the dual gain amplifier switches along with other things - but I feel your pain. As for resolution, again, I'm not an engineer, but I think the issues is diminishing returns. With increased resolution comes the issue of increased file sizes, need for deeper buffers (again for sports/wildlife/action), the ability to transfer that data, managing the heat generated by the increased number of pixels active, larger cards and storage space needed on computers, and not last or least, the need to perhaps improve their lenses so that the benefit of the higher resolution can be realized. I'm sure there are other issues. Just sayin. I do not perform a lot of focus stacking, but agree about the OM systems strategy.
Thank you for the insightful comment! I appreciate you sharing your experience and insights into the technical limitations that camera manufacturers face. It's a valuable perspective to consider.
What's with the obsession with high megapixel sensors? Those photosites are just getting smaller & smaller. I use a D810 for higher resolution images but for everyday use I'm still quite content shooting with my D700. Tech unfortunately has taken over and diminished the art of photography...
I constantly encounter situations where I wish I could see more detail. One of my favorite things to do is bring my images back to view on my large monitor and appreciate all the fine details. Having more megapixels also means more creative cropping in post.
Lost me immediately with the custom settings negative. I assigned mine to the function button. I can toggle easily between the shoot menus without taking my eye out of the viewfinder.
I appreciate your perspective. The ability to assign a button to change Custom Shooting banks is helpful, but you CANNOT assign a button to change the Custom Settings, where many of the settings I actually change live. Also, the physical dial provides a quick visual reference and tactile feedback, which is especially important in fast-paced shooting situations.
@@JamesLPhoto I guess I am lost at what setting needs to be changed that can’t be with a quick button press or dial rotation. ISO, exposure compensation, shutter speed, aperture are all available without having to access the menus.
@@EricDesmarais-c5i So many things. One important aspect is my custom button configurations and i-menu, which are unique to each Custom Setting mode. The i-Menu varies significantly depending on the mode I'm in. Besides that, there are a number of Custom Settings that vary between modes. The big ones are Focus, Release Mode, and FPS...One of my modes is set up for Flash Macro, and most flash settings are in the Custom Settings. I do occasionally change from the default settings, but I wish there was a quick way to recall the original settings for just the mode I'm in without needing to override all of the camera's settings with "Load menu settings."
The dynamic range is dropped at Stacked sensor technology , the faster the readout , it has some impact on dynamic range . Also mechanical shutter vs electronic shutter has a dynamic range hit , you can see this with cameras with both , with mechanical shutter it deliver higher dynamic range . Nikon probably saw this , but seen the difference is minor , could have dropped and add a sensor shield instead .
You're absolutely right about the trade-offs with stacked sensor technology. Faster readout speeds often come at the cost of slightly reduced dynamic range. It seems Nikon prioritized the faster readout of the stacked sensor in the Z8, likely for improved autofocus performance and burst rates, which are crucial for action and wildlife photography. They probably deemed the minor decrease in dynamic range acceptable given the other benefits. I don't.
Seems a minor hit for the trade off of better all around performance. If you only shoot landscape then, the improvements might not be worth it, but for mixed use and particularly video, there are big gains. I have a Z7 and Z8 and I don’t really see any difference in my files when shooting landscape. I’m happy withe the improvements and except when I really care about weight, much prefer shooting with the Z8 over the Z7
@@ericlarson6180 my point is that the resolution hasn't changed and the dynamic range decreased over a 6-year time period. Yes it now performs faster which is good for everyone especially action shooters. Think about how much your cell phone cameras have changed over the last 6 years. I would have expected more innovation over that time frame.
1. Western world problem is what you are experiencing 2. You will NEVER be satisfied and content as long as you keep comparing gear 3. I don't care about all you complained about since I don't even own it and have no plans in getting one.. 4. My only complain about the z8 is it's a digital camera.. I don't care about digital cameras..
Even if a camera brand gives you all you want and all your negatives are addressed, you will still keep complaining cuz of GAS. So sorry no manufacturer can address your issues.. it's all something you've got to deal with
I understand your perspective, but I believe it's important to strive for better tools and express our desire for improvements, especially when investing in high-end gear. While it's true that GAS (Gear Acquisition Syndrome) can be an issue for some, my intention is not to complain for the sake of it. Rather, I'm offering constructive criticism in hopes that manufacturers will listen and continue to innovate in ways that benefit all photographers.
Oh well...no big deal...maybe the firmware updates this week will make a difference. Nikon is still the best as far as I am concerned, and NOTHING is perfect...ever. Z9 has gps. I never use it. Peace
I hope so too! Firmware updates are always welcome, but some of these issues seem to be inherent to the camera's design rather than bugs. We'll have to wait and see what Nikon addresses.
@@nevvanclarke9225Well DPreview does point out, in several reviews, that the old 50Mpix GFX cameras do not clearly have more detail and suggest going for the 102 MPix cameras if detail is what you are after...
I think you complain about something that’s based on your own „wrong“ choice. The Z8 is not a typical landscape camera but rather sports and wildlife oriented. It’s like you bought a race car for city travel and complain afterwards that the trunk is way too small for all the stuff you bought on the shopping tour. I think it’s well known that stacked sensors are designed for speed at the cost of small penalties in dynamic range. In landscape photography you typically don’t need high frame rates, super fast autofocus or a bigger body. What you need - and I am quite sure I don’t tell you something new here - you want smaller bodies, highest resolution and better dynamic range. Apart from higher resolution the Z7II (even the Z7) will give you that. If you have a closer look at the last 10 years or so you will see that there is not much progress in conventional sensor technology. The only thing where we make rapid progress is readout speed through redesigning the data transfer concept on sensor aka stacked architecture. It seems quite obvious that we hit the ceiling with CMOS when it comes to dynamic range, noise etc. But marketing has to sell cameras and customers like shiny new bodies and promising claims rather than diving into deeper analysis what they need and what a new camera can. You can blame Nikon for not concentrating on that very special segment of landscape/architecture/macro still photographers that don‘t need or want all the advancements of a fast sensor (including video) but I am sure that they have evaluated the size of that market and it’s relevance compared to the ever growing video segment or sport/wildlife genre. Compared to Sony and Canon they are still significantly smaller and maybe have to chose wisely what to develop first. And if you look at the lenses they now have, there is a clear indication that video and sports/wildlife are the top priorities. My personal guess is that we will get to know next year if Nikon now turns to developing more stills oriented gear like high-resolution bodies, ultra-wide, fast primes and tilt-shift lenses or if they go on with pushing speed and video. I would love to see a Z7iii with a high megapixel count, maybe even lower base ISO and better dynamic range and the Expeed 7 processor in a very compact and lightweight body. That would be a dream travel and landscape camera but I don’t know if there is a big enough market for that.
@@LightTheShadows I appreciate your perspective and agree that the Z8 isn't a "typical" landscape camera. However, Nikon has actively marketed the Z8 to landscape photographers, highlighting its versatility and capabilities in the outdoors. My point is that while the Z8 is a great camera overall, it falls short in several key areas that are crucial for landscape photography. You're absolutely right about the trade-offs with stacked sensors. But for the price point and target audience, I believe Nikon could have done a better job balancing speed and image quality. And while it's true that progress in conventional sensor technology has slowed, there's still room for improvement in areas like dynamic range, resolution, and noise performance. It's my hope that Nikon will listen to the feedback from landscape photographers and develop a camera that truly caters to our specific needs in the future.
My girlfriend owns a OM1, which has the best focus bracketing feature, and it support flash! Canon isn't far behind. Sony's latency from shot to shot is too long (around 1-2fps), but Nikon is definitely the worst. You can't even compose before you start focus bracketing.
So whiny! I hate articulating screens, they are fragile. Of course MFT is superior in things like focus stacking, the sensor and files are tiny in comparison. Do you understand trade-offs? There is a reason why cameras are stalling at 45-50 MPs, the the best lenses, already extremely expensive, can barely resolve 45mp. If you want $20k lenses go medium format.
I understand that some of the issues I raise might not be a concern for everyone. However, these are features that I, and many other landscape photographers, value and would love to see improved. The point of this video was to share my honest experiences with the Z8, both the good and the bad, so viewers can make informed decisions. You did see my last video on the things I love about the Z8, right? As for the screen, the lack of flexibility in the tilt mechanism when in vertical orientation is a genuine drawback. And while MFT certainly has its inherent benefits, the OM-1's focus stacking capabilities are a testament to its advanced software, not just its sensor size. Features like blackout-free shooting, using a button to trigger the stack, and focus assist are all software features, not hardware. Regarding resolution, I disagree. Many photographers are producing excellent results with the higher megapixel Sony cameras, and lens technology continues to improve. The Z lenses are sharper that the F-mount lenses and yet the resolution remains the same.
Nikon menuing is horrible in practice. I envy photographers who can use it seamlessly. Fuji and Hasselblad look like they are more comprehensive in practice. Why dont they partner with Apple or Google and make their system more usable?
I appreciate you divulging these. These are some serious, bizarre oversights, particularly the focus stacking blackout and the really primitive inability to see your settings applied. What's the point of mirrorless if your screen isn't translating?
@@bsc001 Can you confirm that this allows you to see apertures from low (2.0 or lower) to high (f16-22)? This is a bit of a deal breaker for me, so would appreciate it.
Nah. Dont change things if not broken. Like you said its not for landscape shooters. Just choose the other line ups. Leave it the way it is. 60mp? Nah. Ill pass
For landscape photographers, some things are effectively broken. And "Landscape Photography" is right in the title of this video, so I'm not sure why you watched if you don't shoot landscapes. Nikon hasn't innovated much over the last 6 years when it comes to landscape photography. Over that same time, they've done a ton for wildlife shooters. I'm invested in Nikon tens of thousands, so it isn't easy to switch brands. And many other landscape photographers are in the same boat. The point of my review is to help landscape photographers make informed decisions and to signal to Nikon that they could be doing more.
A camera is just a tool. And like any other tool you learn to use it. You master it. You know what it's going to do, how it's going to behave and you work within that framework. I shoot with a z9. I don't whine and complain about it. I just know what it is. I accept it for what it is. I know how to use it. I know what to expect and I am happy with it. I think of it. Kind of like playing an instrument, for instance a clarinet. You can't blame the clarinet if you can't read music, If you can't count, if you don't practice. The buttons are what they are. It sounds like what it sounds like and if you're good at it, you can make it play magic.
I understand your point about accepting a camera's limitations and mastering its use. However, reviews and critiques are essential for driving innovation and improvement. Simply accepting the status quo doesn't encourage manufacturers to push boundaries and create better tools for photographers. Just like a musician might desire a more responsive instrument or a chef might prefer a sharper knife, photographers seek cameras that enable them to express their creativity more effectively and efficiently. My review aims to provide constructive feedback, not to complain for the sake of it. I never claimed that you can't make good photos with the Z8. In fact, I've produced stunning images with it. But that doesn't negate the fact that there's room for improvement, and those improvements could significantly enhance the experience and workflow for landscape photographers.
@@JamesLPhoto Your point is understood. The question is did it help anyone? Are the changes you desire going to come to fruition as a result? Did it get to the people that could enact those changes? Would a hundred photographers share those same views? What if Nikon chooses to make a different photographer's wishlist come true? All cameras are a compromise of all the possibilities to make the widest number of people happy. A wider view of camera models that followed show the direction of development. What ever anyone chooses represents one point in development. So, I work with what I chose and know the future will have different options. It's not a status quo thing, it's the best tool at the time thing.
@@stevebogucki6236 While it's true that my review might not directly lead to immediate changes, it's part of a larger conversation that can influence future camera development. By sharing my experiences and feedback, I'm contributing to a dialogue between photographers and manufacturers. In fact, I was just contacted by Nikon USA, who assured me they've forwarded this feedback to Nikon Japan. And while it's impossible to please everyone with a single camera, Nikon has a history of catering to specific genres with different models. It's my hope that they will continue this tradition and create a camera that truly addresses the needs of landscape photographers.
Haha, maybe in 30 years we'll have cameras that can read our minds and perfectly execute our creative visions! But until then, I guess we'll just have to keep pushing for innovation and improvements in the cameras we have today. I know one thing: Nikon is thrilled there are so many loyal fanboys who are happy with the status quo and don't see the need for further development. They should be paying you.
I watched this video. It sounds like you purchased it BEFORE you understood what camera youd be getting in the Z8. It will pay to do more research next time, fella.
I understand your point, but it's important to remember that real-world testing often reveals nuances and limitations that aren't apparent on a spec sheet. While I was aware of the general specifications before purchasing, certain features like focus stacking, split-screen view, and depth of field preview can only be truly evaluated through hands-on use. And yes, my point is that Nikon currently doesn't have a perfect mirrorless landscape camera. The Z8 is a great all-arounder, but it's not the ideal tool for every photographer or every genre.
@@JamesLPhoto that it does. the weight, shooting banks, lcd screen, dynamic range qibbles are things that shouldve been known long before the purchase. theres tons of spec review videos online. it still appears that you made a rash puechase. perhaps you could sell the z8, and buy an r5 ii instead.
@@jpl5007 mate, the reasons you stated were known to others from the door. perhaps the future mark 2 might address the issues you had. nikon might be able to surpass dr ranges of mechanical shutters in 2025. keep shooting, cobba.
@@jpl5007 that is surprising. as of late america has been receiving new nikon cameras before japan. i was inundated with info regarding the camera. rumour sites were ignored. keep at it, bearded fellow.
I don’t understand your point. Having a camera and taking leisurely pictures, even with a disposable one, can be seen as a first world luxury. But does that mean we should only use disposable cameras? While some might see these issues as "first-world problems," they are significant issues for some landscape photographers who rely on their gear to deliver consistent results and a smooth workflow. For example, the automated focus stacking feature hasn’t changed in over 6 years and is useless for handheld insect macro photography. In these situations, it’s like a chef using a dull knife-it still cuts, but it hinders their ability to do their best work. The purpose of my two-part review was to provide honest feedback on the pros and cons for landscape and macro photographers, so that individuals can decide if these issues matter to them and camera manufacturers can improve their future offerings.
Refreshing to see some issues. Its beem portrayed wildely as almost a perfect camera thay destroys the competition. I think because Nikon lagged behind for a while and have recently improved a lot inany areas, the hype train has hained momentum and some people are caught up in the fanfare. Anyway, Nikon are doing great things overall but wish people would snap out of this hypnotic like trance many seem to have
Thanks! It's important to have balanced reviews that look at both the strengths and weaknesses of a camera. It's easy to get caught up in the hype, but honest critiques are essential for making informed decisions.
@@JamesLPhoto Absolutely. Nothing is perfect and there are always pros and cons as well as compromises. They all need to be laid out so people can access fairly. Otherwise there's usually bias involved. With the release of the Canon R5ii recently. I one of the most popular channels basically just say how unimpressed they were with the event Canon put on for them. They mentioned it so many times and I was thinking, okay canon could have given the cameras for longer and under better circumstances, but they are instantly in a bad reviewing mode with it because they weren't impressed with the paid for trip by Canon. So yeah, Canon R5ii is in for a tricky start with all these reviewers who already have a salty taste in their mouth, even though it's nothing to do with the camera itself.
08:08 NOOOOO!!! I am staggered you’re crying out for the ubiquitous side hinged selfie flippy flappy, take forever screen. We are inundated with these damn screens now, mainly due to RUclipsrs wanting to shoot themselves. The screen you want is way too slow, too conspicuous and obtrusive. Photojournalists, wedding photographers, documentary photographers and landscape photographers (not you clearly) in the main hate the side hinged screen. Be careful what you wish for.
@@davidmurray5926 I want to be able to see my screen from left, right, below, or above. The Z8 is great from above, mediocre from the side, and in vertical, terrible from below. I haven't experienced any downsides with my OM-1's articulating screen, so I'm not sure what all the negativity is about. I can see the OM-1's screen from top, bottom, left, and right. Isn't that the point?
Image quality and user experience are crucial aspects of any camera, especially at the professional level. It's not about "crying," it's about striving for the best possible tools to capture our creative vision. I've learned to use the shooting banks just fine, but am running up to the design limitations inherent in them. And no matter how well you learn them, it won't solve all the issues I've raised, like the lack of hard saves and the cumbersome mode-switching process.
Wow. Some really significant first world Issues here. This smarts of both lazy, entitled complaints as well as being a provocateur for the sake of content. Focus stacking? Try turning the focus ring if there is an issue. Hand held stacking? Yeah, because alignment issues are nowhere near as problematic as a perceived problem with a function. Use a tripod and get it right. Dynamic range? Take a second shot for the shadows and get better IC than any single shot from any manufacturer’s sensor. Dog preview? Turn on the zebras and/or look at a DoF chart. Your workflow has become flabby and lazy if you require any of these to take a photo. 5 years ago, you would have salivated like a rabid dog to have this camera and, do you know what? You would have taken excellent images with it.
I understand where you're coming from, but I respectfully disagree. The features I highlighted in the video are not merely "first world problems." They represent significant limitations that directly impact my workflow and creative process as a landscape photographer. I'm reviewing gear as a landscape photographer, not making a statement about the minimal hard-knock approach to taking photos. Your point about 5 years ago makes little sense when the D850 from 6 years ago had the same resolution and better dynamic range. That's my point-these stats were buzzworthy SIX YEARS AGO, but 6 years later and $4k in the pot, excuse me if I expect more from Nikon. Wildlife photographers took good photos 5 years ago with cameras that had nowhere near the autofocus or FPS of today's cameras. And yet the autofocus and FPS improvements they've enjoyed have enhanced their workflow considerably. Handheld focus stacking, for instance, is not just a matter of laziness or avoiding a tripod. It's a valuable technique for specific situations, particularly in insect macro photography, where tripods can be impractical or even detrimental to capturing the shot. That's why nearly all serious insect photographers use systems like the OM-1. And as for dynamic range, while it's true that you can blend exposures in post-processing, that's an extra step that wouldn't be necessary if the camera had better dynamic range to begin with. I'm simply advocating for Nikon to prioritize features that are essential for landscape photographers, especially in a camera at this price point.
So much hyperbole… This is just complaining to make enough content to meet your obligations for “the algorithm“. Really poor brand positioning… just another RUclips provocateur.
@@grossieone3683 My channel isn't monetized, so I make nothing from these videos. And the opinions I share are things that I believe. If you're not interested in hearing constructive criticism about a $4,000 camera, I suggest you simply stop watching. I provide honest feedback after real-world usage for landscape and macro photographers who want to make informed decisions about their gear. If that's not you, feel free to move on.
I am a Nikon shooter and a landscape photographer. There is no right Nikon camera, or at least no Nikon camera that has had a substantial upgrade for landscape shooters in the last 6 years.
Comparing a stacked sensor with a non stacked sensor and yet only mentioning the very slight dynamic range loss of the stacked and not the class leading performance, is the point this video turned into a farce. You blamed this slight drop in dynamic range on your "suggestion" that Sony doesn't make this stacked sensor, you clearly don't known anything about stacked sensors. The rest of it is just petty. If you are going to compare this camera to Olympus and Canon offerings, compare all of it, not just the bits you want to cherry pick on other cameras. I was at a loss as to why anybody would make such a useless video, then I noticed your other useless video a couple of weeks ago. You have clearly pitched your videos to attract views as opposed to being useful. Balanced perspective of the Z8? Not at all.... this is just view-centric rehashing. Next you will be doing a video on why the Z7 isn't good for BIF.
I understand your frustration, but I disagree with your assessment. My critiques stem from my personal experience and the feedback I've received from other landscape photographers who have encountered similar frustrations with the Z8. My goal with this video was not to mislead viewers, but rather to provide a balanced perspective of the Z8, specifically from the viewpoint of a landscape photographer. My review is critiquing Nikon's decision to prioritize speed in the Z8, which was already well-covered by the Z9, rather than focusing on advancements that would benefit landscape photographers. Six years after the D850, we see no improvements to image quality, split-screen functionality, or focus stacking. Serious DOF limitations persist. I acknowledge that some of my critiques focus on features known at the time of purchase. My contention is that there is currently a hole in Nikon's lineup where there used to not be. In the past, Nikon offered distinct camera lines: the D4/D5/D6 series for sports and wildlife photographers, and the D800/D810/D850 series for landscape and portrait photographers. This allowed them to specialize the features and capabilities of each line to better suit the needs of their respective users. The Z7 is missing key pro features, so it's more like a D600/D750. This time, however, Nikon had built a great camera in the Z9 for speed, but instead of tailoring one specifically for landscape photographers, they just released a smaller form factor Z9 a year and a half later in the Z8. That decision is what I'm critiquing. While the Z8 is a great camera, I'm sure the wildlife and sports photography market is happy, but other brands ARE creating lines focused on landscape photographers. In my previous video, I highlighted the benefits of the stacked sensor, including its speed and performance advantages. However, it's equally important to acknowledge the trade-offs that come with this technology, especially for landscape photographers who prioritize dynamic range and image quality. Comparing the Z8 to offerings like the Olympus OM-1 is relevant because it demonstrates how other manufacturers are innovating in areas that are important to landscape photographers, such as focus stacking and in-camera image processing. This isn't "cherry-picking," it's providing context and showing that there are alternative solutions available. If certain brands are falling behind, it's important to call out that innovation so manufacturers know what matters to us and can consider it for their own lines. While I appreciate your feedback, calling this review "useless" and "view-centric rehashing" is unproductive and disrespectful. Different photographers have different needs and priorities, and my review reflects the perspective of a landscape photographer. It's my hope that Nikon will listen to feedback from users like myself and continue to innovate in ways that benefit all photographers.
Nikon is running out of juice to make a better camera, higher resolution is not it's objective since it does not make its own sensor, it relies on Sony. Software is not Japanese strength. GPS is a making money option.
While there might be challenges in certain areas, I believe Nikon still has the potential to innovate and create cameras that excite and inspire photographers. It's a matter of prioritizing the needs of different user groups and pushing the boundaries of technology.
Man this is a good review video, I really hope these camera manufacturers look at this and step up. Most of the challenges are solvable through software engineering.
Now most software engineering efforts seem to be siphoned into AF, which is just one small part of the camera experience and definitely not the one that keeps people engaged with these devices ( a) iPhone will get you much better photos of people because the device is way less intimidating and b) professional portrait shooters work with models who can freeze, c) sports and birds photography niche is not that high in consumer volume).
If you make a camera that is easy to use in terms of resolving DOF challenges automatically, having a dynamic range that approaches the human eye and tackle the bracketing issues, have high quality live display information shown to user (the current state of things is horrendous IMHO), will make users more engaged in the long run with the photography.
I truly appreciate your insightful comment and the support! It's heartwarming to know that my videos resonate with fellow photographers and spark meaningful discussions about the gear we use.
I hope that camera manufacturers are listening and taking note of the feedback from passionate photographers like yourself. You're absolutely right that software enhancements can address many of these issues and make a significant difference in our creative process.
I agree that manufacturers seem overly focused on autofocus advancements while neglecting other crucial aspects of the photography experience. Features like improved dynamic range, intuitive live view displays, and streamlined bracketing can make a world of difference for those of us who are passionate about capturing the beauty of the natural world.
Moral to the story: don't get rid of your Z7 or D850. No perfect camera. Just the right tool for the job at hand. I like all of mine. You do make good points about some of those lacking features.
I am a long time landscape Nikon shooter and have been holding onto my D850 until Nikon can provide a camera that is both smaller/lighter and higher resolution with all the pros of mirrorless and no significant drawbacks... Still love the D850 and D810...still waiting.
I hear you loud and clear! It's a tough call because the D850 was such an amazing camera for its time with so many great features. And from this landscape photographer's POV, not much has changed. I still miss some of the D850's aspects, and if mine hadn't met an untimely demise, I'd probably still be shooting with it.
I will admit that the Z glass is nice, though. It's incredibly sharp and a bit lighter than the F-mount lenses. Here's hoping Nikon will improve their mirrorless offerings and eventually deliver a true successor to the D850.
Z7 or z7ii
@@joshmcdzz6925 You might as well get the ii model since it has 2 card slots and 2 processors so slightly better autofocus and buffer speed. The Z7 I did have a really cool focus stacking feature that showed you a preview of what was in focus in the automated stack. God know why they removed it. Other than that, get the Z7 ii.
@@JamesLPhoto for landscape I would not make 2 card slots a priority especially owning to the fact that the xqd/cfexpress cards are very durable and resilient..
The menu system you yave recall is spot on. Im moving from a7iii and lack of physical buttons, dial is concerning. Bookmark feature rather than hard save, yup
Nikon, Canon, and Sony need to release a high resolution (60MP+) with pixel shift, high dynamic range (15+ EV), better low light and wider native ISO range, strong focusing, and other features geared specifically to landscape, portrait, and studio photographers. Most of us don't care about video that much.
I couldn't agree more! It's time for manufacturers to cater to the needs of landscape, portrait, and studio photographers with dedicated cameras that prioritize resolution, dynamic range, and other essential features.
@@JamesLPhoto Yes to cameras actually aimed at photographers. However, I really don't care a hoot about higher resolution. Yes to better focus stacking, yes to better dynamic range, yes to better viewing of depth of field etc. More pixels- not for me but then I'm not a pro so maybe that matters more to pros? I don't see it to be honest. The Z6 range of 24MP is almost good enough for A0 size images. Even bigger file sizes and slower processing aren't what I'm looking for 🙂.
Yes, yes yes to pixel shift. 8 shots equaling 3stops of noise reduction, and if great processing like the Leica/Panasonic then the potential for unprecedented quality large gallery prints.
😂😂😂😂 these companies are in business to sell camera not cater to your fantasies
I hope Nikon sees this video! Thanks for sharing your thoughts and experience with the camera. I'm about to buy a Z8 and there are a lot of videos telling us what's great but not many doing what you did here. I'm a nature photography with probably a 70-30 split on wildlife to landscapes so some of the negatives don't hurt my use case as much.
Now that Nikon has the Z8 line it makes complete sense for them to go all out on the Z7 as a high megapixel landscape/product/marcro/studio photography camera with hardware and features geared towards needs there.
Fingers crossed Nikon is listening
Good luck with your purchase; the Z8 is pretty compelling for wildlife/landscape combo. You'll enjoy the speed for sure!
Appreciate your kind words!
Thr z8 is just a lighter version of the z9. Sounds like the camera you are waiting for is the z7 III. If it comes with a slightly higher resolution and/or better dynamic range with the processor and viewfinder of the z6 III, it would be a great camera.
I agree, the Z8 is essentially a lighter version of the Z9. While the Z7 III might address some of the issues I mentioned, I'm not holding my breath for significant improvements in the areas that matter most to landscape photographers. Hopefully, Nikon will surprise us with a camera that truly caters to our needs in the future.
I don't shoot Nikon but the Canon R5 instead but I completely agree with your observations. The new Canon R5 mkii feels exactly the same as the Nikon Z8, all the upgrades are geared towards sport, action, video shooters but they seemed to have completely forgotten about landscape photographers. I work as a concert photographer and I am very happy with my Canon R5 but for my landscape work I decided to build a kit with the Sony A7R V and some Tamron lenses ( 17-28mm F2.8 / 28-200mm F2.8-5.6 and 50-400mm). I think Sony is the only FF camera manufacturer that at this time is still thinking of landscape photographers, the A7R V is a superb camera, I just came back from a trip in Iceland and I only had the A7R V + the Tamron 28-200mm lens, what an amazing combo! A friend came with me to this trip and he had the Z8, which I handled and loved how it felt in the hands. We are going to exchange RAW files to compare how they edit, it'll be interesting.
Thanks for sharing your experience! It seems like many landscape photographers are finding the current offerings from Nikon and Canon to be lacking in features specifically catered towards our needs. The Sony A7R V does seem to be a strong contender for landscape work, and I'm curious to hear your thoughts on how it compares to the Z8 once you've had a chance to analyze the RAW files. Feel free to share your findings!
I have R5 and A7R5 (newly borrowed), R5 low light AF (pre-dawn darkness and after sunset) is satisfactory. EVF is way more better. But I want the 1/32000 and over 30s shutters, +- 5EV exposure compensation, fully articulated mon, open lens standard offered by Canon.
A7R5 fails to focus in some low light low contrast situation. A7R5's EVF has higher resolution but the software behind it performs badly. It pixelated and kind of blurry or minecraft-similar results even slightly make it very confusing especially when half pressing the shutter (anti-flicker turned off). I don't like the S&Q not that customizable for timelapse and I am forced to use fast card even I just want to shoot low demanding timelapse video. Its interval shooting mode without card limits doesn't generate video output for me. However A7R5 has a very nice fully tilt flip monitor, 61MP, more user friendly dials and more lens to choose from.
I really considered Z8 because of its spec: AF -10EV range, M mode shutter extendable to 900s, +-5 EV exposure compensation, timelapse options. But I don't like its heavy, too few dials, and some reviews is not happy about its low light AF and EVF.
It’s all about marketing, landscape photography is a tiny market not enough for them to cater to
Thank you. I bought the Z9 when it came out and in the end gave it up because I wanted something smaller and lighter and there was no Z8 yet and didn’t really understand why the Z7 II appeared to lag the other brands. So for landscape and other things I got a Sony A7RV to use along side my Sony A1. Your videos have been a big help for me understanding Nikon’s latest products. Will see where the go next. Will there be a Z7III? Take care.
Thanks for your kind comment. I understand your journey! It sounds like you've been navigating the mirrorless landscape and trying to find the right balance of features and portability. Hopefully things are going well for you with your Sonys. It'll be interesting to see what Nikon has in store for the future of the Z series.
@@JamesLPhoto As I get older for travel I’ve even gravitated to the new smaller Sony compact C bodies like the A7CR and A7CII with smaller lenses. I think this is a segment that Nikon should also enter. Size wise reminds me of my Nikon FM2N that I still have except it has a rangefinder type viewfinder.
Thank you for the work! I am looking for a landscape photography camera and you have cleared a few things for me as to what not to expect from a Z8, I don't view your comments as complaints but constructive criticism. I'm glad that Nikon is paying attention. I also don't want to wait 4-6 years for improvement.
Keep up the good work.
You're welcome! I really appreciate your kind and thoughtful words. Cheers.
The nature of a stacked sensor affects the resolution. Steve Perry said this in a YT video review of the Z6iii & showed the same graph you did. It is a drawback of stacking sensors,, but it makes for speed & he thought it was getting a lot & giving up less.
Yes, you're absolutely right. The stacked sensor design does come with some trade-offs, and the slightly lower resolution is one of them. My point is that Nikon has prioritized speed and autofocus in recent years, which benefits wildlife and sports photographers, but hasn't shown the same level of innovation for landscape photographers.
Using stacked CMOS sensor means different readout and ADC circuits. Slow sensors found on the a7RV and Z7II have the best dynamic range, the fastest global shutter a9III has the worst dynamic range. EOS R5II, R1, a9, a1, Z6III, Z8, Z9 seat somewhere in between.
Good callout on the tradeoffs. Wildlife shooters have been major upgrades over the last 6 years. Time for a little love for landscape and macro shooters.
Very good points!!! A camera is more than the headline features or a check list of functionality. One thing I do really like about the OM1 is that they actually do a pretty good job of implementing its host of features and computational modes. I also have a wish list for that camera, but not to many places where I feel they got it wrong. My biggest hope is the AF will be best in the industry. It’s already quite good but others are better in some areas.
I appreciate the thoughtful comment! It's great to hear that the video resonated with you. I agree that many of the challenges I highlighted could be addressed through better software engineering. Manufacturers seem overly focused on autofocus advancements while neglecting other crucial aspects of the photography experience. Features like improved dynamic range, intuitive live view displays, and streamlined focus stacking and bracketing can make a world of difference for those of us who are passionate about capturing the beauty of the natural world.
Thanks for this. As an old Nikon film camera user, I have toyed with the idea of a Nikon FF camera, specifically the Z8, but not after this. The execution of many of these functions on Fujifilm cameras is significantly better. DoF preview is simply a half press on the shutter release. The seven custom modes on my X-H2 (on the dial) can operate either as a bookmark or hard save depending on whether custom auto save is on or off. Then there's the full articulating screen . . . I know they're APS-C, but I'm not a pro, so I'd rather have gear that's pleasant to use vs. the bigger sensor.
I appreciate your feedback! It's great to hear that the video helped you make an informed decision. It sounds like Fuji is doing a great job in addressing the needs of photographers with features like a user-friendly DOF preview and customizable settings. It's a testament to the importance of creating cameras that prioritize user experience and cater to different shooting styles.
Nikon fan boys are coming for you
Haha, I knew I'd ruffle a few feathers with this one! I'm just calling it like I see it. I've got love for Nikon, too, but it's odd how some people interpret any criticism as a personal attack. There's always room for improvement, right? Thanks for the support!
@@JamesLPhoto I'm a huge fan boy but I love nothing more than actual fair criticism because it leads to better products. Great video 10/10
Hey James .. a great video and I agree with many of the negatives as a landscape and Astro Photographer.. I would love to ask a question. Do you know if there’s an option to keep the top setting screen on while doing long exposure more than 30 seconds? My Z6II and Z7II used to show the time left (number of seconds left) but my Z8 turns off the screen after few seconds.. I do many 2 min exposure at Astro and would love to know how or is it another limitation
Thanks for your question! Yes, you can absolutely keep the top LCD screen on during long exposures. Here's how:
Go to the Menu.
Navigate to C3 - Power Off Delay.
Set the Standby Timer to a time greater than your exposure.
This will prevent the top LCD screen from turning off during long exposures, allowing you to see the remaining time and other relevant information.
@@JamesLPhoto Thanks a lot James. I will give it a go at night time and hopefully, it will take away my frustration.. funny enough, this setting isn't required in Z6II only in Z8..
Really fantastic deep dive video. Currently debating between the Z6 III and Z8 right now. Price doesn't matter for me, but I would prefer the smaller size and weight of the Z6 III but prefer the higher resolution and lack of flickering video issues and better dynamic range in the Z8.
I'm glad you talked about the Bookmarks vs Hard Saves issue, most reviewers don't talk about that, and it's a pretty important difference in philosophy. Having used both styles before, if I had to choose one, I prefer the Bookmark system of last used settings especially in this era of shooting both photos and video and being able to turn the camera off to conserve battery life in the middle of shoots without losing the last used settings. But as you said, there's no reason we HAVE to choose. I would love for Nikon to implement a body that can do both, that would be the best of both worlds. Especially in a body as big as a Z8, there should be button room for both. Nikon if you're going to make your bodies bigger and heavier than Canon, then give us some extra reasons for it!
Thanks for your kind words! I'm glad the video helped shed light on the nuanced differences between the Z6 III and Z8. It's a tough choice, but both cameras have their strengths.
You bring up an excellent point about the Bookmarks vs. Hard Saves debate. I think having the option for both would be ideal, allowing photographers to choose the system that best suits their workflow. Hopefully, Nikon will consider this in future models.
I agree with your sentiment about the Z8's size. If Nikon is going to make their bodies larger, they should definitely pack them with features that justify the extra bulk!
This is 100% on point. This resonates with my experience and reaction. The only thing I don’t agree with is the request for a flippy screen… I don’t like those for my work. I also do love the pixel shift, but I think you made this video before that firmware update. The focus stacking implementation is like a quick fix. I also really wish they have the Live view capture for long exposures that the Olympus have. Nikon is just not a “great experience” camera like the Fujifilms, but rather a workhorse that’s built like a tank and delivers beautiful files.
Thanks for your kind words and thoughtful reply. Pixel shift is great, but I don't get to use it much outdoors in nature. I agree that some of these could be improved via the software, and hope Nikon starts to put a little more effort into the menus and usability.
Love your video! I was wondering if you have shot on the new R5ii? I’m looking at that but reviews say it has “terrible” low light performance but as someone looking to step up from 24mp crop dslr I’m guessing these “terrible” performance is only noticeable to pixel peeping pros? 🤷🏻♂️ hard to cut through all the BS “honest” reviews but your videos seems very balanced so your opinion definitely would help. Thank you
I haven't had a chance to test the R5ii yet, but from what I've heard, it's just a modest upgrade from the original R5, not a groundbreaking one. Sorry for the delay and wish I had more solid info for you.
@@JamesLPhoto no worries, I ordered an R5 as for what I shoot I don’t need stacked AF etc, so I saved the money and bought quality glass instead
@@Uisci81 Sounds like a wise decision. Happy shooting with your new camera!
The bookmark (vs hard save), DR, Tilting screen and DR has kept me from moving from my Sony A7RV. IMO, this maybe a better camera for you to try out (added it a bit smaller size like the Z7).
I completely agree with your assessment! The Sony A7R V is a compelling option for landscape photographers, especially with its higher resolution and impressive dynamic range. If it weren't for my extensive investment in Nikon lenses, I'd definitely be considering a switch.
Good for you pointing out issues with your go to camera l sent Canon an email on my disappointment in the R7 and my hope that a mark ii is much improved.
Thanks for the kind words and support. We must voice our feedback as consumers so manufacturers can understand what photographers truly need and want.
I was debating getting the z8 or R5ii. I think you just sold me on the R5ii.
I'm glad the video provided clarity for your decision!
@@JamesLPhoto it really did! Those things you said that were annoying are things I use often so I figured why intentionally cause myself irritation. (I get frustrated easily) lol so anything that makes it easier is a plus! I do wish the R5ii had the flip screen like the z8 though! Simple yet affective, don’t need to pull out, rotate etc
As a D850 and Z7 owner with a mix of "F" and "Z" mount lens you gave me something to think about. I was contemplating trading in both for Z8 body later this year, but as primarily a landscape shooter I'm now going to double think it. The reduced dynamic range was a deal breaker for me as small as it may be. Thank you
I hear you! Dynamic range is crucial for landscape shooters, and even a small decrease can be noticeable. It's good you're weighing your options carefully.
D850 has 14.8 stops of DR, whereas Z7 has 14.6 stops of DR and Z8 has 14.2 DR specially for Land Scape ...checked on DXO mark...firstly I was also disappointed by seeing this z8 DR only 0.2 stops more than Nikon D7500. Its not much concerning as Z8 has other gr8 features which compensate their value as per price
@@Jackourd what do you need the dynamic range for especially when you shoot digital photography? Do you know how to bracket shots and merge them in post? For people shot, have you considered artificial lighting? Dynamic range in any modern digital camera from APS-C to medium format is almost the same..
@@joshmcdzz6925 ha ha..are you really a photographer...these almost means alot in difference.. I know bracketing, I know HDR and I know how to use It...well you can't use bracketing in all kinds of shoots, it's limited when the subject is still, I do shoot Weddings and also landscape and wildlife too ...u said about APS-C so let me tell you frend those sensors are gr8 in DR but the lenses designed for APS-C cameras have less T-Stops in comparison to FF lenses ...the f2.8 of any crop sensor lens have equals to F4.6 in FF .. there is many more thing to consider...I think u jst follow what other youtubers says and your follow others to develop ur skills ...I do research and many other tests to find the results...
you nailed it!! love my Z8 for the speed, AF, and file qhuality but are extremly anoyed by the useless bookmarksystem. D7200 had the best implementation of memory settings....you could update lolike bookmark as long as you did not shut off...once shut off it went back to the hard save values
I'm glad the video resonated with you! It seems many Z8 users share the frustration with the bookmark system.
Nice video, thanks! I own the same Nikon cameras, plus an OM..M10. I had a 1 year frustration with a Canon R5 which is ergonomically a good camera, unfortunately the lenses (15-35 f/2.8, 24-105 f/4 and 16 f/2.8) were disappointing for landscape. The Nikon Z7 II is a fantastic camera for landscape and travel. The Z8 is a great replacement of the D850 for action / wildlife / events where good focusing abilities and silent shutter are a real bonus. The D850 did a good job too in action and wildlife, but it i just too loud. The Nikon Z lenses, especially the 14-24 and the 24-120, are incredible. That said, I totally share your critique. Well, except that I didn't find the dynamic range an issue. And that I prefer the tilting screens over any flip-out screen. Each to his own, I guess.
Thanks for sharing your experience! It's great to hear from someone who also uses a variety of camera systems. I agree that the Z7 II and Z8 are both excellent cameras, each with its own strengths. And I respect your preference for tilting screens - it's all about finding what works best for your workflow!
Very nicely explained. Being a hobby all types shooter don’t understand all points . I need some suggestion if getting z8 used at same new price of z6iii which is preferred ?? I have d750 long time . Bought Z7ii but the raw pictures of people are so noisy in normal light conditions that I have to denoising them that hard to do for the family and friends pictures in some gatherings and then give them for free. So I sell it. We do shoot landscape/ sun rises during winters. Also birding and wild life is a hobby and some chance get to shoot F1 by d750. So is it good to have z6ii or Z6iii or z8. Don’t want more time to spend on Lightroom. Z7ii out of camera portrait are very good in jpeg. When shooting in LCD I can see nice pictures. But raw noisy. Thanks 🙏
Thanks for your kind words. Think about your specific needs and then determine the most critical features for your photography. From there, you can compare cameras on a site like this: cameradecision.com/compare/Nikon-Z6-Mark-III-vs-Nikon-Z7-Mark-II
@@JamesLPhoto thank you for quick response.
Good thing that there are many camera brands to please every one. I definitely do not want more megapixel sensors but I can see how other may want more. The flip screen seems split with photographers. I heard so many photographers say that don’t want flip screen as much as those who want it. I do want integrated GPS. To be fair it works fine in combination with the iPhone app. It automatically connects without even needed to open the app on the phone. But native GPS would be better.
May be a Z7III will be the landscape master. Z8 is more of a hybrid camera.I think Z7III should be high MP for landscape photographers
I appreciate your feedback! It's true that different photographers have different preferences, and there's no one-size-fits-all camera. I personally prefer a fully articulating screen for its versatility, but I respect that others may feel differently.
I agree that integrated GPS would be a valuable addition, and while the iPhone app is a workaround, a native solution would be convenient.
I'm hopeful that Nikon will address some of these concerns in future models, whether it's the rumored Z7 III or another camera entirely.
The Z8 is a great all-around camera, but there's definitely room for improvement in the landscape photography department.
Very interesting points here, thanks for the honest review.
You're welcome! I'm glad you found the review valuable. Honest and balanced feedback is essential for making informed decisions about gear, especially when it comes to significant investments like the Z8.
Very helpful point-by-point explanation. I still miss my Nikon F2.
Thanks for the kind words! I'm glad you found the review helpful. The F2 was a classic, wasn't it?
Best review so far , thank You! Resonates so much and decided to not go Z8 jet.
I'm glad the video resonated with you and provided valuable insights for your decision-making process. Thanks for the support!
1. You can use the front and rear dials to quickly go through every option in your i-menu. Just hover over the box and you dont have to press okay into it. Just hover and use the dials.
2. Nikon designs their own sensors and gets Sony to fabricate them. I love DR as much as the next guy but if I had to choose between a tiny bit of extra DR with Sony or sticking with Nikon's color science i'll take the colors every day.
3. Yup. Nikons focus stacking isnt the best. It works but you really gotta know what you are doing and its sorta annoying to pull off correctly.
4. Articulating screens are a subjective opinion. I mostly do events and concerts. My rear screen would have broken on an articulating hinge multiple times by now. I wont be buying a Z6iii because of it, and i've seen Canon's break in a photo pit because of it. Z8/9's is the most robust and overbuilt hinge on the market which is also sorta to its detriment. Its sometimes a little clumsy to move but I also know it can survive a boot kicking it.
5. Nikon please fix your dang DOf preview. Its probably something to do with AF ability at lower F stops.
Thanks for sharing those tips! I'm aware of the dial navigation in the i-menu, but it still doesn't replace the convenience and speed of a dedicated mode dial for switching custom settings. I appreciate your insights on the sensor and screen design choices, and I agree that the DOF preview needs improvement.
DoF can be programmed on a button to display correct DoF over 5.6in EVF, Unless I am missing something.
@@gunsentry8349 yes, that's correct. But this does not work while magnifying (in the viewfinder, not the lens), which is my critique.
You can assing button for custom settings change. I use it on my Z9 ))
And one more - I need to mention that 20FPS is usefull when you are lazy to take out your tripod, because of low shutter speeds. Because there is no shutter and shuttercount issue with Z8 - just use 10 or 20FPS and then use the sharpest image. I was able to get sharp images with 1/5 shutter and 400mm, without tripod.
You're absolutely right, the high frame rate is incredibly useful for capturing sharp images in low light or with longer lenses, even without a tripod. It's one of the Z8's standout features, and I highlighted it in my previous video on the things I love about the camera.
While you can assign a button to change custom settings, it's not quite as convenient as having a dedicated dial for quick access. But I appreciate you sharing your workaround with the Z9! It's always helpful to hear how other photographers are adapting to the camera's features.
It's a nice distinction to say "zoom" about what the lens does and "magnify" (on screen) when looking at details in an image. It was quite confusing that while you are zooming in on a zoom lens, you can not use the depth of field preview.
@@viktorpaulsen627 great call out. Thanks for your feedback!
For the depth of field preview concerns, isn’t it just easier to take the shot to see what the settings are getting and make adjustments from there?
While it's true that you can take test shots to check your settings, the point of a depth of field preview is to quickly assess your depth of field before taking the shot. This is especially useful in situations where you need to make quick decisions or when you're working with fast-moving subjects.
@@JamesLPhoto Seems like taking the time to check depth of field prior to taking the shot, means you just missed the shot?
@@davidmccoy1378 Ideally, the preview wouldn't be limited to f/5.6. From what I know, Sony and Canon cameras show the DOF of your settings without needing to press the DOF button, which saves time and effort (something I didn’t have to do on my D850). While pressing the DOF button isn't a huge deal, the real issue is not being able to zoom while previewing DOF. This limitation makes it harder to make precise adjustments, which can be crucial in achieving the desired shot.
I would love option to turn it off! For example, if I am using 85 1.2s, but I want to use it at f8 in studio, where modelling lights isn't super bright, focus becomes an issue because its focusing through f5.6 not 1.2s, through 1.2s would be much faster.
@@JamesLPhoto I apologize in advance for beating a dead horse, but the only "precise adjustments" to make are the aperture and shutter speed. Maybe best to bracket anyway to allow you to have more options back in the studio. Easier to determine which version has met the precise needs with a larger monitor. We can't escape that the computer is part of our digital workflow. Best to capture as many options as possible in the field.
GPS should definitely be included. I tend to need it, and it’s puzzling as to why Nikon seems to be GPS averse, except for the Z9.
100%!
I do landscape, woodland so I stoped with a new D850. Next camera will be a Nikon 60 Mpix for landscape or a Fuji GFX 100S system. The problem with the F-system is that there is no 105mm E micro lens. I use D700, D800E and now D850. I hate focus stacking.
Thnx for sharing your experiences.
@thomaseriksson6256 If you hate focus stacking you're in for a world of hurt w/ the GFX cameras. I love my GFX100s but be prepared even at 23mm (18 equivalent) f/16 you'll likely need to take at least 2 exposures and merge to get a deep scene sharp front to back. That isn't terrible IMO. If you're shooting around 45mm (35 equivalent) you'll need around 3 to 4 depending on f stop. By 63mm (50 equivalent) you'll be taking 8 or more shots when shooting at f/8.0 to get a scene sharp front to back sometimes more. I've come home w/ 9+ shots of a scene only to find I missed an area.... Diffraction set in on the GF lenses at f/16 and the GF lenses are typically most sharp between f5.6 to f/8.0 all will have fairly thin DOF at any focal length beyond ultra wide. If you're ok w/ acceptable sharpness in the background then the ultrawide lenses can get you fairly decent single exposures. Just word of caution if you're considering dropping that kind of money, rent before you buy.
@@sequoi_ Thank you for a great feedback. Currently having problems with an old computer that cannot handle windows 11, so I need to update it. Been thinking about this lately and have come to the conclusion that I need to get used to my new Nikon D850 and updated lenses that I bought last year. I think D850 can handle F11 at 45 Mpix. I totally went over my planned budget during the equipment update. Now I also need to look for alternatives to my old photoshop as I will not pay per month to use the new PS. My old PS computer PSU has broken so I need new software. I've never done focus stacking but it's on my to-do list. I'm probably more of a creative photographer than a methodical high-quality photographer, which is a problem for taking landscape pictures.
weirdly I wish my om1 have tilt screen😅
Totally agreed we need real landscape focused camera! (Z7III???)
The screen preference is definitely subjective! I'm hoping the Z7 III, or perhaps a new camera line altogether, will address the needs of landscape photographers and offer features like a high-resolution sensor, improved dynamic range, and a more intuitive user interface.
Very well reviewed. You are right in saying "the wanted to sell Z9 poorer cousin".
Thank you for your kind words and support. I’m glad you enjoyed it! Agree with you. I suppose it makes financial sense from Nikon’s perspective, but I hope they consider us more seriously in future releases.
You can't have a button for settings, but there is one for changing shooting banks.
It is unfortunate that Recall will change settings dynamically. If Nikon added a customization option to prevent this, that would be a major improvement.
Yea, nice call-out. And while changing shooting banks via one of the Fn buttons is certainly better than nothing, as you indicated, it's not perfect since it only changes the Shooting Bank, not the Settings Bank. Another benefit of a physical mode button is the visual confirmation it provides. With one, you don't need to touch the screen or press the button to see what mode your cameras is in. The Z8's top LCD shows what mode you're in, but it is hard to see.
I was seriously considering the Z8 but with this I am not sure now
I appreciate your honesty. My goal is not to dissuade anyone from buying the Z8, but to provide a balanced perspective so potential buyers can make informed decisions. The Z8 is a great camera, but it's not perfect, and it's essential to weigh its pros and cons against your specific needs and priorities.
@JamesLPhoto thanks for reply. I am now considering the Z9 as this may be better than the Z8
Agree with some of these (no hardware switch for shooting banks??)… less so with others (I’ll never take an off-axis fully articulating screen vs the beautiful on-axis tilt the Z8 has)
Hopefully Nikon sees this and can help via firmware on the issues that really have no reason not to be fixed (dof preview, pic in pic, etc).
I appreciate your feedback! It's great to hear your thoughts on the screen articulation. Personally, I find the fully articulating screen more versatile for my needs, but it's a matter of preference. And I agree, Nikon should be able to fix some of these issues, like the DOF preview, Split Screen, and Focus Stacking improvements through firmware updates. But I won't be holding my breath.
Whwn you use a stacked CMOS, it will generally have lower dynamic range than non stacked sensor.
The A7 III non stacked sensor has more dynamic range and noise performance than flagship A9.
I believe Nikon still uses Sony sensors. The Sony's sensor division is separate from its camera division.
I am sure I will do perfectly find with my OM 5. Or Lumix S1R with Canon TS-E lenses.
Best of luck!
Question for Nikon/Canon shooters... Is that screen on top helpful, or would it be better to have more controls?
I find the larger screen a nice to have but not a need to have. I would definitely prefer a mode dial (for changing custom modes) with a smaller screen.
I absolutely love the top screen (and I'm also just used to it from having it for so many years). It's nice to have all that information densely packed in one place for quick glances. You bring up a good question though, is it better to have more controls, especially now that cameras can do more things with advances in technology, and since you can look at a lot of the top LCD information in both the back screen and EVFs now. It probably WOULD be better to have more controls I think. Cameras that lack the top display though, often don't have more controls, they have the same or less because they are lower-priced cameras that the manufacturer wants to cripple to differentiate pricing better, or just because they want to simplify controls for more novice shooters who are more likely buying the entry-level cameras.
@@outofabook I agree with you there. The top LCD screen is definitely a nice feature, especially for quickly checking settings or shooting information. And I do think that having more physical controls would be even more beneficial, especially as camera technology continues to advance. There's only so much room, so it's always a balancing act. Interesting points I hadn't considered. Cheers.
I am not sure why you upgraded from the Z7 to a Z8 for landscape photography.
I upgraded because I shoot wildlife (birds), street, and landscape. For me, the Z8 is a huge upgrade. I would have stuck with the Z7 if I was only shooting landscape.
The Z8 replaced my D850, which was damaged. I also shoot video where the Z8 excels. This review is primarily for fellow landscape shooters. I consider features like backlit buttons essential for a professional landscape camera, which the Z7 lacks.
the reason for the worst dynamic range is the stacked sensor (stacked sensor is faster but it worsens the dynamic range)
@@fsahouri yep, they prioritized speed over dynamic range.
@@JamesLPhotojust imagine the horror show if they prioritized dynamic range over speed. All the bent lines all the blur, all the motion problems. Even slightly changing the orientation of the camera would result in crazy in camera distortions. I'll take prioritizing speed over dynamic range anytime.
The d850, as well as the z7/z7ii will be better for landscape stills, Ot has slightly better DR and higher IQ due to the non-stacked sensor. Sensor read-out speed and DR are diametrically opposed, Ot is always a trade-off game between those two.
I also enjoy the photos out of d850 over that of my z8/z9 where landscape photography is concerned, but on the other hand, as fast-action hybrids, they are superb.
You bring up an excellent point about the trade-offs with stacked sensors. It's a balancing act between speed and image quality, and it seems Nikon is leaning towards speed for the Z8. It probably makes sense for them to focus more on wildlife and sports and event photography economically, but I wish they would consider landscape photographers more like Sony does. I agree, for pure landscape image quality, the Z7 and D850 might still have the edge in some areas.
@@JamesLPhoto Yeah, for sure there is room for a stills-powerhouse like the ‘z7iii’ in their arsenal.
Fingers crossed!
Bookmark settings are so much better than a hard save. Relode the settings from your quick menu to reset hard settings. It's much more versatile.
I also have a Z8 and OM-1. The OM-1 is my macro demon. Full frame will never be as good for extreme macro.
No full frame camera on the market has the computational capability of the OM-1. Not fare to compare the Z8 to the OM-1.
I clearly stated in the video that both systems have their pros and cons, and I personally prefer hard saves.
The comparison of the $4k Z8 to the $2K OM-1 is valid because it highlights the innovative features that other manufacturers are implementing, which Nikon could learn from. Sure, some of those features are easier to implement on smaller resolution MFT sensors, but many are simply better software and user experience design.
That’d be amazing if the Z8 could process focus stacked images in-camera. I didn’t know Olympus cameras could do that, though I’m not surprised because Oly has amazing features.
I completely agree! In-camera focus stacking would be a game-changer. Olympus has definitely been pushing the boundaries with innovative features like that.
@@JamesLPhoto The reason that only Olympus focus stacks in-camera is because they were first to it and have a patent for that. If it weren't for the patent, other camera companies would have in-camera focus stacking too, but in order to not get sued they have to make do with giving us at-home computer software to focus stack instead.
@@outofabook that's a great point and mirrors what a Nikon rep told me. To be honest, the Om-1's in-camera stacking and resulting JPEG isn't the most robust anyway. It's limited to 15 frames and the software significantly crops to make the stacking easy to do in camera. You can definitely get better results and deeper stacks manually blending raw images in post. The two biggest issues I have with the Nikon's focus-stacking is the lack of ability to trigger it with a physical button and the inability to see the stack as being shot. And these two features are found on other cameras so I think they're not limited by patents.
Wow, you just made my GAS evaporate. I think I'll go for a used Z7 and save like 2000 bucks
I'm glad to hear that! The Z7 is a fantastic choice, and saving $2000 is always a win. Smaller, lighter, better DR, same MP.
They got to leave something out in preparation for the Z8 mark ll !
Haha, we shall see!
Higher resolution means more diffraction at lower f-stops. Nikon sacrificed a little dynamic range for a faster sensor.
Higher resolution doesn't create more diffraction, it simply reveals the diffraction that's already present at smaller apertures. More megapixels provides the flexibility to capture incredible detail, crop creatively, and produce large, stunning prints that showcase the beauty of the scene. While a faster sensor is certainly advantageous for certain types of photography, sacrificing resolution and dynamic range for speed feels like a missed opportunity for landscape shooters.
Wow, I never thought a Nikon Z8 nature photographer would give so much credit to the MFT OM-1.
I know its a fantastic camera, but everyone is hyping the Z8 so much I thought it was better than those kwerks.
The OM-1 is a fantastic camera, and it definitely punches above its weight in certain areas. While the Z8 has its strengths, it's important to recognize that other brands are innovating and offering compelling features that Nikon could learn from.
Cameras today are complex enough that foremost thing to do is get yourself familiar with the tech (mpix count and DR), secondly - you need to read the manual, half of your frustrations are fixable, but you don't know how (dark lcd while stacking, custom setting banks reseting...).
Cameras today are indeed complex, and I agree that people should read the manual and work to understand their gear.
But I wonder if your comment is directed towards me. None of the points I cover could be fixed by changing a setting.
"Dark LCD" during automated stacking is not a setting; it's how focus attacking works on the Z8. And, of course, you can reset Custom Settings Banks. But you have to reset ALL settings-there's no option to reset just one bank.
Yes, lower dynamic range and limited megapixels. What you seem to not understand is that the amazing speed provided by this camera is obtained by the use of a stacked sensor. All stacked sensors, will by necessity, have a slight reduction in dynamic range. Such is the trade off accepted to obtain class leading fast action performance desired for shooting birds and sports. Such camera are not designed to be class leading slow action cameras desired for shooting landscapes. To expect the same camera to be class leading in both landscape and fast action is unreasonable.
You raise a valid point about the trade-offs inherent in stacked sensors. However, my critique isn't about expecting a single camera to excel in every genre. It's about Nikon's decision to prioritize speed and video features in the Z8, which were already well-covered by the Z9, rather than focusing on advancements that would benefit landscape photographers.
For the price point and target audience, I believe Nikon could have done a better job balancing speed and image quality.
In the past, Nikon offered distinct camera lines catering to different genres-the D4/D5/D6 series for sports and wildlife photographers and the D800/D810/D850 series for landscape and portrait photographers. This allowed them to specialize the features and capabilities of each line to better suit the needs of their respective users. The Z7 is missing key pro features, so it's more like a D600/D750. This time, however, Nikon had built a great camera in the Z9 for speed, but instead of making one specifically for landscape photographers, they just released a smaller form factor Z9 a year and a half later in the Z8
Hopefully, Nikon will take note of the feedback from landscape photographers and develop a camera that truly caters to our specific needs in the future.
It will be interesting where the Z7iii comes in to the play.
GFX camera is better value now and the image quality blows the NikonZ cameras out of the water for landscape. Photography and the sensor has improved a lot in the GFX cameras. You can do some action stuff now with the two new models. They are expensive but oh my goodness, once you've held one and played with it you won't be using Z camera I guarantee you.
I'm curious as well! Hopefully, Nikon will address some of the issues I've raised in the Z8 with the next iteration of the Z7.
8:25 i prefer the screen if only they can copy sonys opening both ways.
I completely agree! The fully articulating screen is a fantastic feature for landscape photography, and Sony's implementation is top-notch. Seems like the camp is pretty split on this one, so I doubt we'll see this on a Nikon anytime soon.
@@JamesLPhoto yeah i dont think its patented. Or maybe nikon can make a nifty new mechanism.
I wish I had a Z8 so I could bitch about it.
😁
Thanks for your critique. I wish Nikon would improve the focus stacking in camera.
Thanks for the comment! I appreciate the humor and the support for improving focus stacking.
Thanks for the awesome video
You're welcome! Glad you found it helpful.
Many of the settings you hate are carryovers from the D850 and other pro DSLR bodies, particularly the bookmark custom and shoot settings. Many pro shooters prefer these.
The advantage over the Z7 hard settings is that you have control during shoot and more settings you can save. With the Z6/7 every time you turn the camera off it resets to the hard saves, particularly a pain with a mirrorless camera where conserving battery life is important.
With the Z8, if you change settings during a shoot they will remain when you turn the camera off, and if you have saved them to your cards, you can recall the saved settings anytime you want to get back to your original settings. I much prefer this over the Z7
@@ericlarson6180 Appreciate your perspective and I agree that Nikon's bookmark system is something that many photographers prefer. I enjoy that flexibility to some extent myself. But I wish I could choose rather than that choice being decided for me. Sony and Canon and other manufacturers use the hard save. I wish Nikon would allow us to choose which system we prefer specifically because different photographers prefer different workflows. What I like about the z7 is that it offers a physical mode dial. It's a pain to dive into the menu every time I want to switch.
@@JamesLPhoto I couldn't agree more, I want the camera OUT OF THE WAY as much as possible. IMO Fuji has nailed the camera experience including an up to a professional level as you have the option to use bookmark method or hard saves + PSAM dial retains custom modes which makes switching on the fly super easy and reliable. If only Nikon and Fuji would make a FF baby together....
@@sequoi_ Yes! A little collab and co-creation effort would be really cool.
These negatives are true on paper, if you keep comparing to everything that comes out all the time. I reject the lack of dynamic range, that is something other people measure since it very small in practice.
Indeed, things are constantly improving, so I understand that perspective. But I'm not comparing the Z8 to the latest; I'm comparing it to the six-year-old D850 and four-year-old Z7. Over that time, the resolution remained unchanged and the dynamic range actually decreased.
For my Milky Way Photography , African Wild Life Photography, African Landscapes , Portraits and Birds in Flight , My Z8 in conjunction with the 20mm f1.8 S , 24-120 f4 S and 180-600 f5.6 lenses I have a POWER SYSTEM with Zero Cons . Best Nikon camera I have ever had since 1971 and my previous 2 cameras were Z7 and D850 . The Z8 kills them in my Use and kills the Oposition as well >> I am happy and sad to see you sweating the small stuff. I am 74 and find the Z8 is smaller than the mid weight D850 >> the Perfect camera
Agree, sweat the small stuff, If you want to find fault with any modern-day camera, seriously, you did not learn the craft with a film camera with manual focus lenses.
@@jakesdewet3567 I learned on film cameras, and while I appreciate the nostalgia, technology has evolved, and so have our expectations for modern cameras. It's valid to critique features that could be improved, even if they seem minor compared to the limitations of older gear.
I appreciate your perspective! I'm glad the Z8 is working so well for you across various genres. However, for landscape photographers who rely heavily on features like focus stacking and dynamic range, these "small stuff" issues can become significant hurdles in their workflow.
You're using a 35mm camera for pro landscape photography?
And complaining about having to plan the image?
Try using a 4x5 camera with transparency film delivering 5 stops of dynamic range!
I understand the sentiment behind your comment, but it misses the point. It's reasonable to expect that a new camera, especially one with a premium price tag, will offer significant advancements over its predecessors. For wildlife, sports and action photographers, that's a reality, but for landscape photographers not much has changed.
Technological advancements allow us to push the boundaries of what's possible in photography. While we can appreciate the craft and skill involved in using older equipment, it doesn't mean we should stop striving for improvement. Ansel Adams' tripod probably weighed 20 pounds, but that shouldn't stop manufacturers from making new ones lighter. It's like saying we shouldn't use cars because horses worked just fine for centuries. Yes, people got around, but advancements in transportation have undeniably improved our lives and opened up new possibilities.
The Z8 is a powerful camera, but it's not perfect. My review is about highlighting areas where it could be improved, especially for landscape photographers. It's not about dismissing its capabilities or suggesting that it can't produce stunning images. It's about acknowledging that even the best cameras can have shortcomings, and there's always room for innovation and improvement.
There is a saying: "You date the cameras, but you marry the lenses". You made no mention of choosing F mount glass or Z mount glass in your camera decisions. How would that affect your recommendations?
You're right, lens choice is a crucial factor in any camera system decision. I've been a Nikon shooter for years and had amassed a collection of F-mount lenses that I've been slowly offloading. While the Z glass is undoubtedly superior in many ways, it's still frustrating that Nikon's current mirrorless options don't fully capitalize on the potential of those lenses.
I think you’re confusing product lines. The Z8/Z9 series are flagship hybrid cameras that need to meet very high video specs to compete with rival cameras.
The Z7 is the photo-focused series which requires the highest dynamic range, color depth etc. The Z8/Z9 is not meant as a replacement or improvement over whatever the Z7 iii will be they are designed from the ground up with a completely different list of requirements and can therefore afford to compromise on various other things that even the Z7 ii is better suited for.
That being said. Any of these cameras already have higher dynamic range than 35mm film by a significant margin so DR isn’t a real issue unless you’re putting yourself in terrible or impossible situations.
I appreciate your perspective, but I believe you're missing the core of my critique. The Z8 was meant to be the mirrorless replacement for the D850. And the Z8 was indeed marketed towards landscape photographers, with Nikon emphasizing its versatility and capabilities in various genres. However, it falls short in several key areas that are crucial for landscape photography, making it less than ideal for this specific niche. Let's be real: Nikon didn't "create" the Z8 as much as they stripped away a few features from the 1.5 year year-old Z9 and put them in a smaller body.
There has been no improvement in image quality in any of Nikon's cameras over more than 6 years. That lack of innovation and decision to focus on speed at the cost of image quality is what I'm critiquing.
While it's true that stacked sensors offer welcome benefits for speed and video, the trade-offs in dynamic range and resolution are significant for landscape photographers. Nikon has historically offered distinct camera lines catering to different genres, like the D800 series for landscape and the D5 series for sports. The Z7 also does not improve on image quality, despite it being "designed from the ground up." And the Z7 is missing several pro features that even the D850 had.
In addition to image quality stagnation, the lack of innovation in features like focus stacking, split-screen view, and depth of field preview, is a legitimate concern for many landscape photographers.
@@JamesLPhoto I think it's a great conversation to have but I just don't think that's accurate. The Z8 is a completely new product line that has branched off from the Z9 to provide hybrid shooters the option of the top of the line flagship functionality in a smaller package suitable for gimbal use and other smaller builds. The 7 series seems very clearly the successor from the start of the D850 replacement. They obviously did have to make some compromises since they were dead last in the mirrorless compared to the competition, but in fact, the Z7 and Z7ii both map 1:1 with the DR curve of the D850. It gave up some features but also offered a great deal more flexibility and features by doing so with a mirrorless offering at a higher megapixel density.
But I think its very clear that the Z8 is an entirely new category of camera for Nikon and not a D850 replacement as you'll see the Z8 line always feature their top of the line video features while the Z7 line will continue to be more photo focused with highest DR.
@@JamesLPhoto And I think Nikon realizes how important the new Z8 product line is as it will be primarily the answer to Sony's A7R line. Canon is a little funny this way because they never bothered to split product lines this way and the R5 line is a clear hybrid focused camera that's not focused on winning on megapixels but doing everything else exceptionally well, except thermal management.
@@MojoPapiFPV You make a good point that the Nikon product line is evolving, and their mirrorless line is branching away from their DSLR lineup.
My principal argument is this: the landscape photography community was impressed by the D850, but it's now been over 6 years, and there has yet to be much substantial improvement, whether in the Z7 or the Z8. This lack of progress is particularly disappointing when compared to the significant strides made by other manufacturers, like Sony, in specs and features that matter to landscape photographers.
Yes, Nikon has clearly chosen to prioritize speed and video. Just think about the differences between the D5 (2016) and the Z9 (2021)...over that five-year timeframe, there were HUGE improvements. Significant upgrades occurred even between the D6 (2020) and the Z9 (2021)! But for the features that matter to landscape photographers (image quality, focus stacking, DOF preview, split screen, etc.), there's been no change, or it's worse. To me, and many other landscape photographers, that is unacceptable.
@@JamesLPhoto Very true. My guess is they made and focused on the changes they needed to prioritize to be competitive and stay alive as a company when they're far behind in marketshare and until the Z9 had little to offer *most* photographers to set them apart. I think they made the right choices and are clearly reaping the benefits financially. There are tons of things that annoy me about my Zs and I wish I had an ear at Nikon. But I also get to week after week work in advertising and editorial environments with Fuji, Canon and Sony and can list shortcomings and complaints I have about every single camera. Photography is about compromise. You want low ISO? You're going to have to give up shutter or aperture, etc.
I definitely can't pretend to know anything about what it's like to be a landscape photographer or the niche things that may require but I would guess its a very small percentage of the customer base for Nikon which makes it even tougher. I would think brands like Olympus would be a much better fit community-wise and also in terms of DoF with a far smaller sensor - but then we get to compromises again and you're forced to sacrifice a couple of stops of DR. Again, without being in that space I would also imagine that this niche is more "print" focused which would lead me to suggest Fuji w/ 16bit color and 100MP files for anyone going down that path.
Like I said, the conversation is super interesting to me and I'm curious to see what Nikon will do and improve on the Z7iii whenever that lands. I would hope the jump to Sony's 60MP sensor, since I doubt there's much more headroom in DR to achieve on 35mm sensors for some time. Seems like we haven't cracked the 12-stop mark yet and the direction of the tech might indicate less focus on trying to get there than possibly incorporating a global shutter in the next flagship (acquisition of Red + Sony's A9iii). Selfishly, I want this more than anything because of the endless possibilities it affords me and other photographers in portraiture, fashion and advertising. Either way I'm excited to see how it all plays out.
BTW, the only time I've been on a job with focus stacking (watch company), they were using Helicon for that and not relying on the camera to do it. From my understanding, this is still the "standard" for whatever that's worth.
As far as DR, if you're waiting on that, I would say move to Fuji now. You'll get 50% more light (.5 stop) increase in DR but only at base ISO. By ISO 200 on the Fuji GFX 100 series you're already in Nikon/Sony territory. If you find yourself shooting above base ISO for most of your landscape, don't bother unless its about the Megapixels or color depth for you.
I've had this camera for over a year, I didn't even know it had all of that sh*t. 😊
Haha, it's easy to miss some of the hidden features and quirks. That's why I wanted to make this video, to help people get a better understanding of the Z8's strengths and weaknesses.
and yet Ansel Adams did so much with so little and he only had a shutter, shutter release, a decent lens and a piece of film he had to load one at a time....
While it's true that photographers like Ansel Adams created incredible images with limited technology, that doesn't mean we shouldn't strive for better tools today. Technological advancements have allowed us to push the boundaries of creativity and capture images that were previously impossible. It's like saying we should be content with driving 1950s cars because people got around just fine back then.
My goal with this review is not to complain for the sake of it or to question the Z8's ability to take good photos. It's to provide an honest assessment of the camera's strengths and weaknesses, just like a car review would highlight both the pros and cons of a vehicle. I believe this information is valuable for viewers who are considering investing in a Z8 and want to make an informed decision.
@@JamesLPhoto I also have a Z8, although I wished I could of had the z9 but money is money, I love my Z8 I shoot portraiture and sports photography, I also kept my D850, I dont think I will sell it.. The Z8 for me fills my needs a actual in use 10-20 fps great Af, compared to the Z8 really the same camera just faster AF and fps...also claimed that it would be nice to have 61 meg resolution fine, as long as you have the glass that would make the bump really worth it..or is the glass there right now to really see a difference???
@@Mikefarwell-67 Without a camera with higher resolution to confirm, all I can offer is some logic: there was a noticeable difference in sharpness with my best F-mount lenses when I moved from the 36MP D810 to the 45MP D850. The D850 was a big enough bump in resolution to notice that some of my lower quality F-mount lenses weren't capable of resolving all of those megapixels. But the Z glass is, in general, better than the F-Mount, including being sharper, so I have to believe a bump in resolution would be recognizable with the sharpest Z glass.
@@JamesLPhoto this is really off the topic but do you consider the Z70-200 2.8 at 2500.00 vs the newest nikor 70-200 fl 2.8 worth replacing??
@@Mikefarwell-67 As a landscape shooter, I transitioned away from the 70-200 years ago, preferring longer focal lengths like the 100-400. If I was carrying a 70-200, it would be an f/4 because it would be lighter and just as sharp at f/8. Check out a direct comparison and see if you think those differences are worth it to your specific style of photography. www.dxomark.com/Lenses/Compare/Side-by-side/Nikon-NIKKOR-Z-70-200mm-F28-VR-S-on-Nikon-Z7-versus-Nikon-AF-S-Nikkor-70-200mm-F28-G-ED-VR-II-on-Nikon-D810__2058_1270_406_963
As 2 Z8 owner, Here are cons of z8 -
1. AF could be more precise
2. Banding problems with LED, flash lights using high shutter speeds
3. no RAW in pre capture mode.
4. no medium size RAW, like Z7ii
5. no option to turn off DOF - For example, if I am using 85mm 1.2s, but I want to use it at f8 in studio, where modelling lights isn't super bright, focus becomes an issue because its focusing through f5.6 not 1.2s, through 1.2s would be much faster.
Otherwise, superb camera for me. Size wise, perfect. Z7ii was to small, I used it with grip and then its too big. Nikon android app needs work.
Nice to see the perspective of a non landscape shooter's experience with the Z8.
I think the biggest problem with this camera is that it’s not a Sony
Some really great call-outs of several perennial (and pretty inexcusable) Nikon shortcomings as well as a couple new ones. Really good stuff. But man, just delete the section at the beginning comparing specs. If you're going to stop with "this number is smaller than that one" without explaining the MANY dimensions of quality and utility behind those numbers, it just sounds like vendor bashing or simply that you don't know what you're talking about.
Thanks for the feedback! I appreciate you finding the critique helpful. The specs overview at the beginning might seem like simple vendor bashing, but my intention was to provide a quick reference point before diving deeper into the specific features and shortcomings that are more relevant to landscape photographers.
I went from the Z6ii to Z8 when the Z8 was released and still miss the User settings and command dial to switch to different user modes in under a second (or switch between modes when the camera is off). It's so clunky to change settings via the screen/EVF.
The other things don't really bother me, but those bank settings... ugh.
I agree-the lack of a dedicated user settings dial, and the clunkiness of changing modes on the Z8 are major drawbacks. It's a simple thing that could make a massive difference in the user experience, especially for photographers who frequently switch between different shooting scenarios.
Nikon designed an incredible wildlife, events, and videography camera in the Z9. Two years later, they released the Z8 as a slightly watered-down version of the same camera rather than designing a new camera specifically for landscape photographers.
The D850 was a landmark camera for us, and it's disappointing that six years later, we're still waiting for a true successor that caters to our specific needs. Hopefully, Nikon will deliver a dedicated landscape camera in the future!
I own the Z9 (and shoot sports, action, wildlife - for the most part). Completely understand some of these frustrations. I personally had to lay out an Excel spreadsheet because of the extensive menu system - for creating 4 banks - and keeping most of the settings the same so that switching banks didn't drive me insane. That works out well, but I also would prefer a hard save. In the meantime, I make sure to always, after shooting, copy my settings on the card back to the camera, download the files, then format the card, and resave the settings - so, as you say, you can always come back to the same place. I also take out the primary card and back it up to the secondary card as well. Inevitably, the increased noise at lower ISOs comes from increased front end read noise from the stacked sensor (fast readout) and the fact that the sensor is always on - encouraging things like Amp Glow, Dark Current, etc. I'm not an engineer, but this would seem logical. At higher ISOs, the dual gain amplifier switches along with other things - but I feel your pain. As for resolution, again, I'm not an engineer, but I think the issues is diminishing returns. With increased resolution comes the issue of increased file sizes, need for deeper buffers (again for sports/wildlife/action), the ability to transfer that data, managing the heat generated by the increased number of pixels active, larger cards and storage space needed on computers, and not last or least, the need to perhaps improve their lenses so that the benefit of the higher resolution can be realized. I'm sure there are other issues. Just sayin. I do not perform a lot of focus stacking, but agree about the OM systems strategy.
Thank you for the insightful comment! I appreciate you sharing your experience and insights into the technical limitations that camera manufacturers face. It's a valuable perspective to consider.
What's with the obsession with high megapixel sensors? Those photosites are just getting smaller & smaller. I use a D810 for higher resolution images but for everyday use I'm still quite content shooting with my D700. Tech unfortunately has taken over and diminished the art of photography...
I constantly encounter situations where I wish I could see more detail. One of my favorite things to do is bring my images back to view on my large monitor and appreciate all the fine details. Having more megapixels also means more creative cropping in post.
Lost me immediately with the custom settings negative. I assigned mine to the function button. I can toggle easily between the shoot menus without taking my eye out of the viewfinder.
I appreciate your perspective. The ability to assign a button to change Custom Shooting banks is helpful, but you CANNOT assign a button to change the Custom Settings, where many of the settings I actually change live. Also, the physical dial provides a quick visual reference and tactile feedback, which is especially important in fast-paced shooting situations.
@@JamesLPhoto I guess I am lost at what setting needs to be changed that can’t be with a quick button press or dial rotation. ISO, exposure compensation, shutter speed, aperture are all available without having to access the menus.
@@EricDesmarais-c5i So many things. One important aspect is my custom button configurations and i-menu, which are unique to each Custom Setting mode. The i-Menu varies significantly depending on the mode I'm in. Besides that, there are a number of Custom Settings that vary between modes. The big ones are Focus, Release Mode, and FPS...One of my modes is set up for Flash Macro, and most flash settings are in the Custom Settings. I do occasionally change from the default settings, but I wish there was a quick way to recall the original settings for just the mode I'm in without needing to override all of the camera's settings with "Load menu settings."
10:51 or you can take a few pics at different settings and see the difference Lol
The dynamic range is dropped at Stacked sensor technology , the faster the readout , it has some impact on dynamic range .
Also mechanical shutter vs electronic shutter has a dynamic range hit , you can see this with cameras with both , with mechanical shutter it deliver higher dynamic range .
Nikon probably saw this , but seen the difference is minor , could have dropped and add a sensor shield instead .
I've seen that mentioned numerous times, but nobody speaks of how many stops you loose. As you said, the difference is likely negligible.
You're absolutely right about the trade-offs with stacked sensor technology. Faster readout speeds often come at the cost of slightly reduced dynamic range.
It seems Nikon prioritized the faster readout of the stacked sensor in the Z8, likely for improved autofocus performance and burst rates, which are crucial for action and wildlife photography. They probably deemed the minor decrease in dynamic range acceptable given the other benefits. I don't.
@@taylorhickman84 Here you go: www.dxomark.com/Cameras/Compare/Side-by-side/Nikon-D850-versus-Nikon-Z7II-versus-Nikon-Z8___1177_1361_1386
Seems a minor hit for the trade off of better all around performance. If you only shoot landscape then, the improvements might not be worth it, but for mixed use and particularly video, there are big gains. I have a Z7 and Z8 and I don’t really see any difference in my files when shooting landscape. I’m happy withe the improvements and except when I really care about weight, much prefer shooting with the Z8 over the Z7
@@ericlarson6180 my point is that the resolution hasn't changed and the dynamic range decreased over a 6-year time period. Yes it now performs faster which is good for everyone especially action shooters. Think about how much your cell phone cameras have changed over the last 6 years. I would have expected more innovation over that time frame.
1. Western world problem is what you are experiencing
2. You will NEVER be satisfied and content as long as you keep comparing gear
3. I don't care about all you complained about since I don't even own it and have no plans in getting one..
4. My only complain about the z8 is it's a digital camera.. I don't care about digital cameras..
Even if a camera brand gives you all you want and all your negatives are addressed, you will still keep complaining cuz of GAS. So sorry no manufacturer can address your issues.. it's all something you've got to deal with
I understand your perspective, but I believe it's important to strive for better tools and express our desire for improvements, especially when investing in high-end gear. While it's true that GAS (Gear Acquisition Syndrome) can be an issue for some, my intention is not to complain for the sake of it. Rather, I'm offering constructive criticism in hopes that manufacturers will listen and continue to innovate in ways that benefit all photographers.
Oh well...no big deal...maybe the firmware updates this week will make a difference. Nikon is still the best as far as I am concerned, and NOTHING is perfect...ever. Z9 has gps. I never use it. Peace
You've never used a GFX camera from Fuji then because I can guarantee you the files out of a GFX camera mind blowing Lee good
I hope so too! Firmware updates are always welcome, but some of these issues seem to be inherent to the camera's design rather than bugs. We'll have to wait and see what Nikon addresses.
@@nevvanclarke9225Well DPreview does point out, in several reviews, that the old 50Mpix GFX cameras do not clearly have more detail and suggest going for the 102 MPix cameras if detail is what you are after...
I think you complain about something that’s based on your own „wrong“ choice. The Z8 is not a typical landscape camera but rather sports and wildlife oriented. It’s like you bought a race car for city travel and complain afterwards that the trunk is way too small for all the stuff you bought on the shopping tour.
I think it’s well known that stacked sensors are designed for speed at the cost of small penalties in dynamic range. In landscape photography you typically don’t need high frame rates, super fast autofocus or a bigger body. What you need - and I am quite sure I don’t tell you something new here - you want smaller bodies, highest resolution and better dynamic range. Apart from higher resolution the Z7II (even the Z7) will give you that.
If you have a closer look at the last 10 years or so you will see that there is not much progress in conventional sensor technology. The only thing where we make rapid progress is readout speed through redesigning the data transfer concept on sensor aka stacked architecture. It seems quite obvious that we hit the ceiling with CMOS when it comes to dynamic range, noise etc. But marketing has to sell cameras and customers like shiny new bodies and promising claims rather than diving into deeper analysis what they need and what a new camera can.
You can blame Nikon for not concentrating on that very special segment of landscape/architecture/macro still photographers that don‘t need or want all the advancements of a fast sensor (including video) but I am sure that they have evaluated the size of that market and it’s relevance compared to the ever growing video segment or sport/wildlife genre. Compared to Sony and Canon they are still significantly smaller and maybe have to chose wisely what to develop first. And if you look at the lenses they now have, there is a clear indication that video and sports/wildlife are the top priorities.
My personal guess is that we will get to know next year if Nikon now turns to developing more stills oriented gear like high-resolution bodies, ultra-wide, fast primes and tilt-shift lenses or if they go on with pushing speed and video. I would love to see a Z7iii with a high megapixel count, maybe even lower base ISO and better dynamic range and the Expeed 7 processor in a very compact and lightweight body. That would be a dream travel and landscape camera but I don’t know if there is a big enough market for that.
@@LightTheShadows I appreciate your perspective and agree that the Z8 isn't a "typical" landscape camera. However, Nikon has actively marketed the Z8 to landscape photographers, highlighting its versatility and capabilities in the outdoors. My point is that while the Z8 is a great camera overall, it falls short in several key areas that are crucial for landscape photography.
You're absolutely right about the trade-offs with stacked sensors. But for the price point and target audience, I believe Nikon could have done a better job balancing speed and image quality. And while it's true that progress in conventional sensor technology has slowed, there's still room for improvement in areas like dynamic range, resolution, and noise performance.
It's my hope that Nikon will listen to the feedback from landscape photographers and develop a camera that truly caters to our specific needs in the future.
My girlfriend owns a OM1, which has the best focus bracketing feature, and it support flash! Canon isn't far behind. Sony's latency from shot to shot is too long (around 1-2fps), but Nikon is definitely the worst. You can't even compose before you start focus bracketing.
Agreed on the Om-1's amazing focus stacking. Sad to see that the big money manufacturers are slower to innovate in this regard.
God forbid you bought a Canon... you'd run over it...
Really that bad, huh?
So whiny!
I hate articulating screens, they are fragile.
Of course MFT is superior in things like focus stacking, the sensor and files are tiny in comparison. Do you understand trade-offs?
There is a reason why cameras are stalling at 45-50 MPs, the the best lenses, already extremely expensive, can barely resolve 45mp. If you want $20k lenses go medium format.
I understand that some of the issues I raise might not be a concern for everyone. However, these are features that I, and many other landscape photographers, value and would love to see improved. The point of this video was to share my honest experiences with the Z8, both the good and the bad, so viewers can make informed decisions. You did see my last video on the things I love about the Z8, right?
As for the screen, the lack of flexibility in the tilt mechanism when in vertical orientation is a genuine drawback.
And while MFT certainly has its inherent benefits, the OM-1's focus stacking capabilities are a testament to its advanced software, not just its sensor size. Features like blackout-free shooting, using a button to trigger the stack, and focus assist are all software features, not hardware.
Regarding resolution, I disagree. Many photographers are producing excellent results with the higher megapixel Sony cameras, and lens technology continues to improve. The Z lenses are sharper that the F-mount lenses and yet the resolution remains the same.
Nikon menuing is horrible in practice. I envy photographers who can use it seamlessly. Fuji and Hasselblad look like they are more comprehensive in practice. Why dont they partner with Apple or Google and make their system more usable?
A poor tradesman blames his tools.
Sounds like you bought the wrong camera!
I appreciate you divulging these. These are some serious, bizarre oversights, particularly the focus stacking blackout and the really primitive inability to see your settings applied. What's the point of mirrorless if your screen isn't translating?
They are all Non Events >> why sweat the Small Stuff
You can activate it via the menu.
Pencil icon, a9, View mode (photo Lv), Show effects of settings
@@Mr09260 It's not small stuff, it's obvious exclusions they should have included and these things are annoying day to day.
@@bsc001 Can you confirm that this allows you to see apertures from low (2.0 or lower) to high (f16-22)? This is a bit of a deal breaker for me, so would appreciate it.
Nah. Dont change things if not broken. Like you said its not for landscape shooters. Just choose the other line ups. Leave it the way it is. 60mp? Nah. Ill pass
For landscape photographers, some things are effectively broken. And "Landscape Photography" is right in the title of this video, so I'm not sure why you watched if you don't shoot landscapes.
Nikon hasn't innovated much over the last 6 years when it comes to landscape photography. Over that same time, they've done a ton for wildlife shooters. I'm invested in Nikon tens of thousands, so it isn't easy to switch brands. And many other landscape photographers are in the same boat. The point of my review is to help landscape photographers make informed decisions and to signal to Nikon that they could be doing more.
A camera is just a tool. And like any other tool you learn to use it. You master it. You know what it's going to do, how it's going to behave and you work within that framework. I shoot with a z9. I don't whine and complain about it. I just know what it is. I accept it for what it is. I know how to use it. I know what to expect and I am happy with it. I think of it. Kind of like playing an instrument, for instance a clarinet. You can't blame the clarinet if you can't read music, If you can't count, if you don't practice. The buttons are what they are. It sounds like what it sounds like and if you're good at it, you can make it play magic.
I understand your point about accepting a camera's limitations and mastering its use. However, reviews and critiques are essential for driving innovation and improvement. Simply accepting the status quo doesn't encourage manufacturers to push boundaries and create better tools for photographers.
Just like a musician might desire a more responsive instrument or a chef might prefer a sharper knife, photographers seek cameras that enable them to express their creativity more effectively and efficiently. My review aims to provide constructive feedback, not to complain for the sake of it.
I never claimed that you can't make good photos with the Z8. In fact, I've produced stunning images with it. But that doesn't negate the fact that there's room for improvement, and those improvements could significantly enhance the experience and workflow for landscape photographers.
@@JamesLPhoto Your point is understood. The question is did it help anyone? Are the changes you desire going to come to fruition as a result? Did it get to the people that could enact those changes? Would a hundred photographers share those same views? What if Nikon chooses to make a different photographer's wishlist come true? All cameras are a compromise of all the possibilities to make the widest number of people happy. A wider view of camera models that followed show the direction of development. What ever anyone chooses represents one point in development. So, I work with what I chose and know the future will have different options. It's not a status quo thing, it's the best tool at the time thing.
@@stevebogucki6236 While it's true that my review might not directly lead to immediate changes, it's part of a larger conversation that can influence future camera development. By sharing my experiences and feedback, I'm contributing to a dialogue between photographers and manufacturers. In fact, I was just contacted by Nikon USA, who assured me they've forwarded this feedback to Nikon Japan.
And while it's impossible to please everyone with a single camera, Nikon has a history of catering to specific genres with different models. It's my hope that they will continue this tradition and create a camera that truly addresses the needs of landscape photographers.
@@JamesLPhoto I'm glad to hear Nikon took notice! Peace and have a good day!
So this camera is useless????
30 years from now you'll be saying "you should be able to just wiggle your nose and POOF! Perfect pictures and the dishes are done".
Haha, maybe in 30 years we'll have cameras that can read our minds and perfectly execute our creative visions! But until then, I guess we'll just have to keep pushing for innovation and improvements in the cameras we have today.
I know one thing: Nikon is thrilled there are so many loyal fanboys who are happy with the status quo and don't see the need for further development. They should be paying you.
Try a Leica Sl2.
I watched this video. It sounds like you purchased it BEFORE you understood what camera youd be getting in the Z8. It will pay to do more research next time, fella.
I understand your point, but it's important to remember that real-world testing often reveals nuances and limitations that aren't apparent on a spec sheet. While I was aware of the general specifications before purchasing, certain features like focus stacking, split-screen view, and depth of field preview can only be truly evaluated through hands-on use.
And yes, my point is that Nikon currently doesn't have a perfect mirrorless landscape camera. The Z8 is a great all-arounder, but it's not the ideal tool for every photographer or every genre.
@@JamesLPhoto that it does. the weight, shooting banks, lcd screen, dynamic range qibbles are things that shouldve been known long before the purchase. theres tons of spec review videos online. it still appears that you made a rash puechase. perhaps you could sell the z8, and buy an r5 ii instead.
@@jpl5007 mate, the reasons you stated were known to others from the door. perhaps the future mark 2 might address the issues you had. nikon might be able to surpass dr ranges of mechanical shutters in 2025.
keep shooting, cobba.
@@jpl5007 that is surprising. as of late america has been receiving new nikon cameras before japan. i was inundated with info regarding the camera. rumour sites were ignored. keep at it, bearded fellow.
First-world problems, agreed?
I don’t understand your point. Having a camera and taking leisurely pictures, even with a disposable one, can be seen as a first world luxury. But does that mean we should only use disposable cameras?
While some might see these issues as "first-world problems," they are significant issues for some landscape photographers who rely on their gear to deliver consistent results and a smooth workflow.
For example, the automated focus stacking feature hasn’t changed in over 6 years and is useless for handheld insect macro photography. In these situations, it’s like a chef using a dull knife-it still cuts, but it hinders their ability to do their best work.
The purpose of my two-part review was to provide honest feedback on the pros and cons for landscape and macro photographers, so that individuals can decide if these issues matter to them and camera manufacturers can improve their future offerings.
Refreshing to see some issues. Its beem portrayed wildely as almost a perfect camera thay destroys the competition. I think because Nikon lagged behind for a while and have recently improved a lot inany areas, the hype train has hained momentum and some people are caught up in the fanfare.
Anyway, Nikon are doing great things overall but wish people would snap out of this hypnotic like trance many seem to have
Thanks! It's important to have balanced reviews that look at both the strengths and weaknesses of a camera. It's easy to get caught up in the hype, but honest critiques are essential for making informed decisions.
@@JamesLPhoto Absolutely. Nothing is perfect and there are always pros and cons as well as compromises. They all need to be laid out so people can access fairly. Otherwise there's usually bias involved.
With the release of the Canon R5ii recently. I one of the most popular channels basically just say how unimpressed they were with the event Canon put on for them. They mentioned it so many times and I was thinking, okay canon could have given the cameras for longer and under better circumstances, but they are instantly in a bad reviewing mode with it because they weren't impressed with the paid for trip by Canon. So yeah, Canon R5ii is in for a tricky start with all these reviewers who already have a salty taste in their mouth, even though it's nothing to do with the camera itself.
08:08 NOOOOO!!!
I am staggered you’re crying out for the ubiquitous side hinged selfie flippy flappy, take forever screen. We are inundated with these damn screens now, mainly due to RUclipsrs wanting to shoot themselves. The screen you want is way too slow, too conspicuous and obtrusive. Photojournalists, wedding photographers, documentary photographers and landscape photographers (not you clearly) in the main hate the side hinged screen.
Be careful what you wish for.
@@davidmurray5926 I want to be able to see my screen from left, right, below, or above. The Z8 is great from above, mediocre from the side, and in vertical, terrible from below. I haven't experienced any downsides with my OM-1's articulating screen, so I'm not sure what all the negativity is about. I can see the OM-1's screen from top, bottom, left, and right. Isn't that the point?
People cry to much about image quality.
I do think you should’ve invested more time about learning how to operate shooting-banks properly.
Image quality and user experience are crucial aspects of any camera, especially at the professional level. It's not about "crying," it's about striving for the best possible tools to capture our creative vision.
I've learned to use the shooting banks just fine, but am running up to the design limitations inherent in them. And no matter how well you learn them, it won't solve all the issues I've raised, like the lack of hard saves and the cumbersome mode-switching process.
Wow. Some really significant first world
Issues here. This smarts of both lazy, entitled complaints as well as being a provocateur for the sake of content. Focus stacking? Try turning the focus ring if there is an issue. Hand held stacking? Yeah, because alignment issues are nowhere near as problematic as a perceived problem with a function. Use a tripod and get it right. Dynamic range? Take a second shot for the shadows and get better IC than any single shot from any manufacturer’s sensor. Dog preview? Turn on the zebras and/or look at a DoF chart. Your workflow has become flabby and lazy if you require any of these to take a photo. 5 years ago, you would have salivated like a rabid dog to have this camera and, do you know what? You would have taken excellent images with it.
I understand where you're coming from, but I respectfully disagree. The features I highlighted in the video are not merely "first world problems." They represent significant limitations that directly impact my workflow and creative process as a landscape photographer. I'm reviewing gear as a landscape photographer, not making a statement about the minimal hard-knock approach to taking photos. Your point about 5 years ago makes little sense when the D850 from 6 years ago had the same resolution and better dynamic range. That's my point-these stats were buzzworthy SIX YEARS AGO, but 6 years later and $4k in the pot, excuse me if I expect more from Nikon. Wildlife photographers took good photos 5 years ago with cameras that had nowhere near the autofocus or FPS of today's cameras. And yet the autofocus and FPS improvements they've enjoyed have enhanced their workflow considerably.
Handheld focus stacking, for instance, is not just a matter of laziness or avoiding a tripod. It's a valuable technique for specific situations, particularly in insect macro photography, where tripods can be impractical or even detrimental to capturing the shot. That's why nearly all serious insect photographers use systems like the OM-1.
And as for dynamic range, while it's true that you can blend exposures in post-processing, that's an extra step that wouldn't be necessary if the camera had better dynamic range to begin with. I'm simply advocating for Nikon to prioritize features that are essential for landscape photographers, especially in a camera at this price point.
So much hyperbole… This is just complaining to make enough content to meet your obligations for “the algorithm“. Really poor brand positioning… just another RUclips provocateur.
@@grossieone3683 My channel isn't monetized, so I make nothing from these videos. And the opinions I share are things that I believe. If you're not interested in hearing constructive criticism about a $4,000 camera, I suggest you simply stop watching. I provide honest feedback after real-world usage for landscape and macro photographers who want to make informed decisions about their gear. If that's not you, feel free to move on.
@@JamesLPhoto well said handheld focus stacking is painful when I use the Z8.
Two dog allusions. Weird.
You are a landscape photographer So you buy the wrong tool for the job hahah I think that's on you duh !!
I am a Nikon shooter and a landscape photographer. There is no right Nikon camera, or at least no Nikon camera that has had a substantial upgrade for landscape shooters in the last 6 years.
Comparing a stacked sensor with a non stacked sensor and yet only mentioning the very slight dynamic range loss of the stacked and not the class leading performance, is the point this video turned into a farce. You blamed this slight drop in dynamic range on your "suggestion" that Sony doesn't make this stacked sensor, you clearly don't known anything about stacked sensors. The rest of it is just petty. If you are going to compare this camera to Olympus and Canon offerings, compare all of it, not just the bits you want to cherry pick on other cameras.
I was at a loss as to why anybody would make such a useless video, then I noticed your other useless video a couple of weeks ago. You have clearly pitched your videos to attract views as opposed to being useful.
Balanced perspective of the Z8? Not at all.... this is just view-centric rehashing.
Next you will be doing a video on why the Z7 isn't good for BIF.
I understand your frustration, but I disagree with your assessment. My critiques stem from my personal experience and the feedback I've received from other landscape photographers who have encountered similar frustrations with the Z8. My goal with this video was not to mislead viewers, but rather to provide a balanced perspective of the Z8, specifically from the viewpoint of a landscape photographer. My review is critiquing Nikon's decision to prioritize speed in the Z8, which was already well-covered by the Z9, rather than focusing on advancements that would benefit landscape photographers. Six years after the D850, we see no improvements to image quality, split-screen functionality, or focus stacking. Serious DOF limitations persist.
I acknowledge that some of my critiques focus on features known at the time of purchase. My contention is that there is currently a hole in Nikon's lineup where there used to not be.
In the past, Nikon offered distinct camera lines: the D4/D5/D6 series for sports and wildlife photographers, and the D800/D810/D850 series for landscape and portrait photographers. This allowed them to specialize the features and capabilities of each line to better suit the needs of their respective users. The Z7 is missing key pro features, so it's more like a D600/D750. This time, however, Nikon had built a great camera in the Z9 for speed, but instead of tailoring one specifically for landscape photographers, they just released a smaller form factor Z9 a year and a half later in the Z8. That decision is what I'm critiquing. While the Z8 is a great camera, I'm sure the wildlife and sports photography market is happy, but other brands ARE creating lines focused on landscape photographers.
In my previous video, I highlighted the benefits of the stacked sensor, including its speed and performance advantages. However, it's equally important to acknowledge the trade-offs that come with this technology, especially for landscape photographers who prioritize dynamic range and image quality.
Comparing the Z8 to offerings like the Olympus OM-1 is relevant because it demonstrates how other manufacturers are innovating in areas that are important to landscape photographers, such as focus stacking and in-camera image processing. This isn't "cherry-picking," it's providing context and showing that there are alternative solutions available. If certain brands are falling behind, it's important to call out that innovation so manufacturers know what matters to us and can consider it for their own lines.
While I appreciate your feedback, calling this review "useless" and "view-centric rehashing" is unproductive and disrespectful. Different photographers have different needs and priorities, and my review reflects the perspective of a landscape photographer. It's my hope that Nikon will listen to feedback from users like myself and continue to innovate in ways that benefit all photographers.
Nikon is running out of juice to make a better camera, higher resolution is not it's objective since it does not make its own sensor, it relies on Sony. Software is not Japanese strength. GPS is a making money option.
While there might be challenges in certain areas, I believe Nikon still has the potential to innovate and create cameras that excite and inspire photographers. It's a matter of prioritizing the needs of different user groups and pushing the boundaries of technology.