As an artist i really don't like the word "talent" makes it seem like some kind of magic or genetic power to explain that some people are better at art. I feel that a more accurate word would be passion or drive, so even if you're puttig the effort on the skill side or marketing side of you career as an artist, you're still being passionate as an artist, as the goal would be to showcase and live off your art to be able to make more art !!
100% agree! "Talent" as a concept is capitalistic and dystopian. The idea that people are born being good at one thing, and that's what you're "destined" to do. A Brave New World was a dystopian novel about people being forced to do Only One Thing 😅
90% of talent comes from a determination to get better. It take practice and study. DaVinci literally went down to a margue to study and codify human anatomy. He made sketches. The human body most basic average form has consistent proportions and yes these are a little different person to person, but a decent human can be made just by following thos proportions, there's all sorts of tricks to make 2D images appear 3D.
Real talent exists though. Some people do just have an extremely easier time learning than others. Passion is completely separate, it can just be mistaken for talent when viewed from the outside. You don't need passion when you have enough talent. That's the simple truth. True success would still need some work, but passion is not necessary. Less talent = more passion needed
Seeing my art as business always makes me so nauseous, I tried and hated every drawing I did at this time. I understand how important that is, but it's just so hard.
@tonysparda9281 , because otherwise it's hard to make a living out of it, working full time artist feels better when you work on yourself then on person who will replace you with AI
@@kaizobear4818 To be honest, I don't understand the desire to make art work for a living in the sense that people usually talk about it. Only a small percentage of people can be an indispensable artist in the gaming industry or in cinema or design. Most artists, even talented ones, are doomed to get stuck somewhere in drawing sprites for casual mobile games in the style set by the customer. Besides, when you start turning what you love to do into work, it's a sure way to hate it. There are a huge number of professions in the world in which human labor cannot be replaced and they are able to provide experience that could be valuable in art and would make art unique. For me, art is life, not work.
@@tonysparda9281 yet another person advocating for art to be unpaid. I loved working in animation, even if I was meh on the show I got to create every day. If YOU dont like making art for money thats fine. Not everyone can do it. Not every hobbiest can turn their hobby into their career. However many people can and do. Be careful of what you say because you sound like you think its bad when artists want a career in art.
people on twitter have opinions, crazy concept I know. everyday people in the world or on other online sites are mad, it's no different on twitter. it's just easier to hear about people being mad online, but it's no different then people irl
@@Karmaisabreez there's much less people who troll then there is that just get mad online lol. besides, that wasn't what I or the comment I replied to is talking about, so no idea why you brought it up
My only personal issue with the "treat it like a business" is for the folks who will burnout if they go with that mindset I'll use myself as an example since this is my opinion When I was looking at my art as a business I kept looking at it and saying all the negative things about it because I felt like it wasn't good enough to post (IE lots of mistakes or I just never even finished the drawing) which ended up causing burn out for me. Not every mindset works for everyone and that's ok! Life isn't always a "one size fits all"
@@pearlthenephilim Or just relax and let art be art. You don't have to think about it. It will be enough to find a job / business that will not cause you to burn out and will allow you to practice art.
Treat it like a business if you're trying to make it a business. If this is a hobby, this doesn't matter. However, if you're wondering why you're not reaching your financial goals(for a business) then it might be your mindset. Though that isn't saying you should treat all your art as a business or think in a business like manner 24/7. That will increase burnout. But self employed artists(writers, creatives, etc) do need to wear "different hats". Businessman, promoter, artist, etc
I think the dissonance happening here is artistic people not wanting to admit they’re personally not cut out for online content creation. And that is fine. You don’t have to look at your art as a business or as a way to make money. But essentially, don’t go in thinking big platforms just drew x thing -> secret algorithmic luck -> got rich and famous. The “luck” was consistency and marketing. To me, OP outlined a very specific concept with a very specific goal in mind. For a very specific type of person. And surprise, it was genuinely helpful advice for ppl who share the same aspirations and endgame. If it doesn’t apply to you then carry on. Twitter is always up and arms about how people “word things” as if we’ve all collectively forgotten intention and nuance .
I been an artist for 4 years now and I can tell ya that anyone can become a professional artist. With that said, most artist lack 3 big things: discipline, consistency, and smart studying (analyzing your drawings, making notes of the mistakes, comparing, asking for feedback, and taking notes). I have seen some monster artists that improve so much in 1 or 2 years that you wouldn't believe it, but they're the type of artist that if you ask them to do an assignment they will give you 10 times more of what you asked them (for real, the amount of sketchbooks some of them have is never-ending). Art is not easy.
Man, I was just talking about this on a reddit post the other day, I'm going to copy and paste what I said there: "It's an ongoing argument. I personally feel that talent helps because an artist sees the world differently than other people do (more observant over little details, colors, etc.). However, you can have all the talent in the world but if you don't work on your skill, you'll never improve. I've drawn all my life and considered myself to have talent but I went to an art school with a girl who never drawn but she improved at lightning speed because she honed the skill and was passionate about giving life to her ideas." So basically, like you said, talent helps but art is a SKILL. Hone that skill and you will get better. Marketing is another skill that can help propel your art to give it more "value" (I'm putting it quotes for the sake of financial value, all art is valuable to me). It's a heavy topic among creators but that's just how the world works now.
Imo, I don’t like it when someone says the artist is just “born with it” because it feels like they’re downsizing their personal art journey. Every artist’s journey is unique and will apply methods to their art that will be different to someone else’s. It’s not the same for everyone. As someone who grew up with an artist who was “born with it”, I know the feeling of jealously one gets because the other artist make it look easy when it’s not for me. It still doesn’t mean their journey is any easier, in my opinion. I watched her struggled many times, she nearly gave up on art many times. I’m so proud of her because she is in a place where she is content with her art and manages to sell her work which is awesome. Yes, she has talent but she worked hard to get where she is now and having talent shouldn’t diminish the progress she made. IMO.
I wasn’t naturally talented at drawing from the start. I’ve had to practice for 13 years to get to where I am now, and I still draw in black and white because shading with color is way more difficult.
@@Lil_NootYou're not talented if you weren't from the start. You can't be unnaturally talented unless you're something like a head-injury induced savant. The word you are looking for is 'skilled'.
I think it depends. If you see art as a hobby, or want a job that's in the industry this rule doesn't work for you. This is only a thing if you want to run an art business yourself...
Many studios don't choose artist they hire fulltime on the internet, they mostly do from applications... Looking at your portfolio & work.. I think it's way better because you don't really need to waste your time with social media ...
@@hiirosamagi Untrue. Been working in animation for over a decade, and I've both found jobs and have been contacted just from posting work online. You're right it's not necessary, but it can be a leg up if you're starting out. Hiring from applications is common for internships and trainee programs, but many jobs you're going to get from people who want to keep working with you.
not really true, a lot of artists for studio were found through social media or their internet content. It only doens't apply to hobbyist who are not trying to make art their career. It's easier to get in if the recruter already like your social media content
Imo you can be both talented and hard working, it doesn’t need to be left or right, for example im and artist and sure i have been born with talent but i still draw everyday to keep that talent, and i progress and improve because i also work hard for my dream!!
Drawing every day doesn't help keep talent, because talent is about how easily you learn something. If you work harder to increase/keep skill than others it actually signifies less talent.
I don't like the phrasing for a lot of the thread, at the start the word "overrated" nearly always sets up an "I'm right and other people are wrong" implication. But I mean, clickbait is what it is. Similarly "rewards the smartest" rather than the "talented", don't really agree with that one. It rewards putting yourself out there and working hard, above all. A lot of people brute force the marketing and selling part, because it's something you can learn, just like skill--you can pick it up in random engagement if you're good at talking to people, as well Agree with the general sentiments, but I can see how the tone and some of the nuances would rub people the wrong way
You should look up the word Over rated in a dictionary. It has no implication like that whatsoever. It just means that people put way too much emphasis in something that at the end of the day doesn't put money in the bank and food on the table.
the only reason that could rub people the wrong way is because it put the accountability of their failure on themselves rather than the fatality of having no talent
@@EndoftheBeginning17 I didn't say that the word itself has that implication. It does however state your opinion of something by comparing it to other people's opinion of something. If you then go on to argue why you're right, rather than qualifying "my opinion" all the time, you get the implication very easily. I think it's deliberate here because they wanted twitter engagement and/or the discussion--I could be wrong, but strong guess
There's definitely truth to that thread, and there's some real, solid advice. I'm somewhere in the middle. Freelance art is my job, but I still consider it a fun hobby despite having a full schedule (daily tiktoks, weekly videos, streams, commissions, fanfiction updates and cross posting). I think it's also because i have a part-time in my chosen field, so i have a chance to balance my self-made schedule and my given schedule. My family is full of businessmen ans lawyers, and they've given me business tips to grow but none of it ever stuck. It didn't feel right because my brand is quite fun, laidback and more about character analysis than a store or actual business. I just do what I enjoy and people seem to like it. I think for me the biggest keypoint is INTERACTING with your community. I reply to comments daily, i love seeing what people say (and filtering out the rude ones) and i think it's made it fun for people to come back to my comments because they know theyre likely to get an answer and some interaction. It's nice to grt discussions going. That's my personal experience anyway.
As someone that has been following Stylized Station for a while, I agree with what he had to say and how he responded to the criticism, basically saying that it is okay to what to take your passion and talent to a new level, through marketing and building a community thus in turn building a brand/business around your skill. I too am an artist and hope to one day make art that people want to take time out of their day to admire and maybe even purchase. It certainly does not mean that I am solely in it for the money or that I became lucky, it is because I got recognized by people that appreciate my effort and wanna support it going forward. (damn that was long. My bad lol)
They right. Follower count doesn't mean shit 99% of the time. Especially on platforms like twitter that are full of dead accounts and bot accounts. What matters is interaction. What matters is treating your regulars well and building more regulars through a good reputation. That reputation if fostered by interaction. Posting sketches, posting WIPs, commenting on other artists' work and interacting with them, collabbing, making sure your ART accounts are ONLY ART and not flooded with other content. I learned traditional art in college. They MAKE you take business classes and learn how to network. You learn how to interact with galleries, you learn how to sell your art at local businesses, you learn to market *yourself* along with your art.
Definitely more on the artist side vs business side, I'm working on trying to create more engaging content and started new social media pages since my old ones have hundreds/thousands of followers, but only a handful of likes/comments
It's exactly about business vs art. In order to be successful on social media and get paid for your drawings, you don't have to have talent. You have to be your manager and your advertising agent. It takes hard work, but it's a completely different field, it's marketing. Whereas having talent and developing exactly this, spending years improving their skills, an artist can remain unknown to anyone and forced to work in any other jobs for the sake of money for a living. This just shows that talent is UNDERRATED, in a literal sense, society does not value talent without the ability to sell this talent.
This is so disheartening because i have what it takes art wise but business wise ? Nope. I'm scared I'll never be able to create an audience/community for my art and be able to create characters people care about or art people want to buy because truly its all I've ever wanted to do? And I know I'd work so hard to make a good piece for people but god, being social, putting myself out there is so stinking complicated. I don't understand how people have the capacity to plan, strategise and market themselves.. And just like, why do I have to make myself an entertainer to get people to care about my art ? I've never had that in me. It almost feels like "you're not enough. " and that can be so disheartening. To anyone in the same situation, big emotional hug.
There are plenty of people who started out, or still are, people with low social batteries that are able to work within and around their limitations. I don't mean to sound preachy though. I've just been wondering how I could do the same myself because I'm also not good at entertaining people. I've never entertained a crowd or marketed my work, but seeing people who were once shy and awkward be able to start putting themselves out there down the line, it's got me thinking. Keep looking for little ways to make your desires a reality and maybe you'll find something that works for you :)
@evewhoo it doesn't sound preachy at all, it actually feels quite comforting and uplifting, so thank you for taking the time to respond. I tend to forget other people with low social batteries have managed to make it, I just get so in my head sometimes it's tough to think of it as a realistic possibility, if that makes sense? You can do it too. The sheer fact you're thinking about it shows you'll find answer sooner or later. I'm rooting for you and I wish you the best of luck with your journey ! You can do it
I’ve had an extreme aversion to business and marketing since I was in grade school. I can’t morally stomach it even in instances where there’s nothing wrong with it. I just never wanted to get near it.
Not saying they're wrong, but personally, if I started viewing my art as a buissness, I genuinely think I would have stopped making art years ago. I'm the type of person where, if I'm not inspired to make something or I'm being told what and when to draw, I go through a major creative burnout to the point where I can't even start creating unless I get myself out of that mindset. My creativity thrives on creating what I'm interested in. If I try and focus on what other people want to see or what's popular, if it's not something I'm also interested in, I physically can not force myself into a creative space.
@@sk3llyb0nes Very true. I don't understand why everyone thinks it's necessary to turn everything into a business. Art, writing, crafting... Why do people think it's important and necessary to turn emotions, self-expression, and the very soul into a commodity?
@@tonysparda9281 it should absolutely be whatever you want it to be, I'm genuinely sick of people acting all high and mighty because they don't want to do what they love for a living. not everyone is cut out for it. enjoy your hobby by all means. but stop acting like it's better and more elevated because you don't make it your life's business. sorry it just makes me crazy with how people look down on those who make a living from their passion.
@@mimilapin Yeah, it's cool if a person can do what they like while getting paid for it and it doesn't lead to burnout, they're comfortable with this pace of work, and so on. But this is not the only way.
you will learn significantly more by spending less time on more projects rather than spending a month perfecting 1 thing, because you are not going to perfect anything ever and what took you a month will very quickly take you less time once you are more experienced
I agree! It also helps you to focus on only a couple of issues you want to fix or a specific skill you want to improve at hand rather than to dilute your focus by piling up more and more concerns or wants as you keep "perfecting" a single project. It's better to identify an issue and fix/improve upon it on the next iteration, it's an effective way to study art imo
...I turned what was supposed to be a 2h drawing into a 180h one over 4 months without even intending to, because stopping at 2h was still nowhere near an imperfect minimum viable product thingy lmao 🤷♀️😫
If your goal is to turn art into a career, all of that advice is 100% correct and valid. If you're not willing to play the marketing game and put in the backbreaking effort it takes to grow in that space... You won't grow. Or rather: You might grow, incredibly slowly and you'll be frustrated. The OP is 100% correct. Art isn't about "talent" - it never was. It is a very sweet compliment (on that note: Artists need to learn how to take compliments, denying it doesn't make you humble, it makes you annoying), but we have to keep in mind that art is a skill, and skills are honed, not born out of the ether. Personally, growth isn't my goal, as I'm a hobbyist and I view making as something fun and an occasional side gig. But, it doesn't mean it's incorrect, it's just different choices. Twitter just doesn't want to acknowledge it.
I can see why people might have issue with some of their wording though, especially towards the end, they are parting their own back a bit too much, which could rub the wrong way for some.
I took an art history class and what you said about financial gain is absolutely true! In the age of the renaissance it actually was practice to essentially keep artists as pets lol. A very wealthy family, for example the Medici family, would make an agreement with an artist to provide them housing in their own home/on their own land (because remember these are insanely rich families) at no cost, all necessities provided, so be able to have the artist create art freely and then have that art displayed in their home, because the amount of art a family owned added to their value/reputation. So yes, not having to worry about finances DOES enable more art! That is one reason why the business aspect matters to a lot of artists.
100% this, I wish more people realized. For god's sake - they don't even post any of their art online yet they're telling us we should be posting everything LOL
Old Man Artist here: Talent is a myth. 9_9 It's a synonym for "Interest in Thing." Some people pick up art faster because, even temporarily, they are more interested, pay closer attention, and practice more. At best, "Talent" is a lucky collation of skills built due to other "Interest in thing." What I'm trying to say is, the secret to Art is Arting. The more you want the art, the better as arting you'll get. Once you stop wanting to art, improving will become harder. You'll lose "Interest in Thing." VEEEERY interested in the Business bits of this vid, tho. I'm crap at business, but can at least keep the lights on, if barely sometimes. I may have to take a class in Business basics and think of my art as a service. 9_9 Hmmm... I should want to do that more.
They are right and made some great points. Artists are too attached to the identity of an artist and how their art is so personal. Probably thinking that business is therefore soulless, or something of the like. But will then complain about poor engagement, lack of followers, etc. An old acquaintance from college was talking down to artists with bigger followings and i pointed out that its not about the quantity of followers but the quality and they just blocked me. Even though what i said was true it just conflicted with what he wanted. And to the people who say treating your art as a business will lead to burn out. Maybe. But so will producing your art while working a job you hate. Everything can lead to burn out, burn out is unavoidable, especially if theres no balance in your life. You have to treat aspects of your art like a business if you want to make money. But you need to stay grounded too.
Saying "you're just lucky that you got here" kinda disregards all of the work and efforts you put in which is kind of annoying in my opinion, I'm not saying luck isn't part of success IT IS
14:00 I find it quite ironic because people love art, we consume art all the time and it's one of the thing we like the most and yet artist are undervalued. Because the craft is not recognized
Seeing art as a business is unfortunately the fastest way to burn you out though. People need to also see that art is already time consuming and expecting for us to also do marketing videos or whatever JUST to get people to look at your work. This is genuinely what upsets me nowadays for it really wasn’t like this back then. More people need to learn to share art from the original artist more if they enjoy the work instead of liking and walking away… so while i agree with the points, one person can only do so much.
@@Aur0raAura It seems to me that there is something wrong with the public consciousness in general, when most people treat art as a business and what is tedious must be turned into material profit... like... It's an art form. Emotions, experience, a window into the soul, the most human thing in the world to do. Seeing art only as a business is why AI pictures are now everywhere and displacing artists.
This mindset really just depends on what you want out of art. Do you want to draw what you want and make art because it makes you feel good? Treat art as art. Treat it as a hobby and work on your skill to get your art where you want it to be and don’t care about numbers over how the art makes you feel. Do you want to make art for a job or a career? Keep a business mindset and think of who you want to show your art to and notice if it gets there or not. Figure out how to market your art to your wanted audience. But always keep in mind your own limits. You may want it as a job, but the business mindset burns you out. Then you need a new view point or a middle ground. The business mindset works for some, but not all. Though, some phrasing of the op is weird. Like them using talent and skill interchangeably. It’s not. Talent is something some people have by how they see and connect to the world, but that only gets you so far. Practice grows skill, and you need that, otherwise you won’t grow to where you want, marketing or no.
At 25, I found myself losing another dead-end job in retail a week before Christmas because corporate shut the store down. I have always been a creative at heart and knew I wanted to persue a more freelance of entrepreneur lane in the future so I didn't find myself in the same position again. I work predominantly online, I knew 5 years post my degree, half of what I learned could be irrelevant. So I got myself a business degree with a minor in finance. I honestly feel deep down the purest mentality that you can't focus on both business and art or be both a business person and an artist comes from those who struggle to do both and they view being able to do both as some form of cheating or poisoning the well for the competition but that's not fair. You don't get to police talented artists because people will wait months or years for their commissions to open, you don't get to shame a different artist who has the same line based on marketing alone.
In my case I made three accounts for art and in all three I always thought the same thing: “I'm not good enough”. What happened? I never finished growing account because I believed that what mattered was the end of each drawing, I always thought “Ah well, I lack practice, but when I get to THIS level, I'll be good and everyone will appreciate what I do”. Spoiler, never happened. No matter how much practice and theory you have, if you don't SHOW the way, your practices, sketches, wips, etc. No one will ever know of your existence and life happens. That happened to me for being purist and classist (in extreme combination to perfectionism). Don't be like me, if you want to do it as a hobby, great, but if you aspire to work in this, show yourselves. POST YOUR WORK. Your favorite artist I'm sure has the same doubts that their art is not good enough, and yet they continue to post their art and grow with their community and have the mindset to pay the bills at the end of the day lol
Agreed, also I feel that gone are the days when we used to post on social media (anybody remember deviantart) for the sake of just connecting with others. It seems like all art is about business now. :(
@@dominique9109 Yes, that's true too, everything is business nowadays. Which is sad :/ It's as if everything has to get an economic benefit, which is fine, but in part kills the artistic soul of the simple fact of wanting to draw for pleasure, the saying “If you're good at something, never do it for free” is not always a good concept haha
“You are not an artist, you’re a business man” is wild to me. Like why do we have to mark people as “less passionate” when they want to also make money from the things they made?, people can still be passionate and want to be able to live man
I wish I didn’t have to think about audiences :( “Meh meh meh that’s who you’re selling to” I KNOW But like I just wish I could make what I want without the worry that if others don’t like it I won’t get money.
You can. Make what you want and create merch with it, and allow it to garner you passive income. Focus on marketing the pieces you love and it should be easier because you are passionate about that. When you are passionate about them, other people are passionate about them too. There are a lot of helpful "art as a business" videos out there, but for someone like you, finding a trustworthy merch partner/website selling prints, posters, mugs, whatever is a decent way to start earning passive income. You can also go to art or other related conventions that overlap with your personal interests (maybe you make fanart of anime or comics or something) - selling merch at those is also a viable way to make profits on your art. Submit it to local contests and such, too. My local pot shop back in Michigan would regularly hire and promote local artists to create logos, merch, and various other marketing art assets for them that they could both mutually benefit from. Highly recommend looking into things like that. Afterall, the more you want to do it, the better the art will be, the more people will want some of it. Most creatives do not thrive when they are forcing themselves to do something they don't want to do.
Artist: “I’m an ARTIST, not a business person. Marketing & business plan are below me.” Same artist: “Why is no one buying my art? Why can’t I support myself on my art??? 😭😭😭😭”
Treat it like a business if you're trying to make it a business. If this is a hobby, this doesn't matter. However, if you're wondering why you're not reaching your financial goals(for a business) then it might be your mindset. Though that isn't saying you should treat all your art as a business or think in a business like manner 24/7. That will increase burnout. But self employed artists(writers, creatives, etc) do need to wear "different hats". Businessman, promoter, artist, etc
Me as someone who suffers from serve OCD and has panic attacks if i even try to make something imperfect along with me being an control freak and if something is not done right then i lose it. So I'm kinda screwed either way here lol
Hey! My OCD manifests in the same way. The treatment is to make mistakes on purpose. Color a little bit out of the line. Put a timer on and *stop* when time is up. It feels awful, I know. There's nothing like OCD anxiety. But you HAVE to sit there and feel it. Start doing this once a week, and please be very gentle with yourself. You'll give into your compulsions sometimes. But over time, you *will* teach your brain that doing this doesn't end in catastrophe. OCD comes and goes in waves, so when you overcome this compulsion, it might pop up again later in a different form. You know you can handle it. OCD doesn't get to dictate what your life will look like. Yes, it's harder for us. We have to work harder. But the world DESERVES YOUR ART! In terms of proper OCD treatments, ERP is the best therapy, but if you can't afford it, check if there's a GOAL group in your area (free OCD support group). You'll probably also want to get an rX for an SSRI, too. Talk to your doctor! Also Brainlock is a great book. Dr. John Grayson's book and work is excellent, too.
i went from doing 3d art for fun, having basicly no sales, to finding a small base of furries and centering my shop around them. Within a yer I was making enough to live off off by changing how I marketed myself and who I was targeting. Im not even a furry lol. My talent didnt suddenly improve. I just got smarter at how I put myself out there.
It took me 2 years to get to draw good face anatomy but I still can’t draw good full body’s and I sometimes get put down when I see some ones drawing tutorials where they say if you can’t draw like this it’s impossible to draw but I like drawing again while’s seeing your videos (I don’t like colour)
Ngl seeing that the OP is someone selling courses and all that it just kinda gives fitness influencer who talks down about one thing so they can sell you something. There are some good points in there but the wording is god awful and discredits the work that goes into even those that are talented. And like others stated seeing art as a business and solely a business is a very fast way for you to burn yourself out. There needs to be some level of enjoyment in the craft alongside the other aspects so to keep from the crash and burn. Some people can indeed do that and ngl all the power to them but it's also a good way a lot of artists have burnt themselves out and I've seen the latter so much more than the former over my years on the net. But yeah the tone and phrasing is really bad so it kinda makes sense people not exactly vibing with the post. The OP may have a business and sell courses to people (which tbh I find very scammy having done a moment to look up who this individual is) but they kinda really don't have the knowledge how to really talk to people like people. People are more receptive when it doesn't feel like they're being talked down to and highkey that's the tone of that whole thing. More flies with honey and all that shindig. This is just my ten cents I suppose. I've seen much better threads talk business sense in better means from people not selling courses so yeah.
@Hyenaraptor it's often said that honesty is a good thing. I only desire to know I'm doing a good job so I'm not blinded by any potential personal bias 👍
They are 100% speaking truth. Talent can only get you so far. I know I could of gotten so many comms if I actually marketed myself cause my art is pretty cheap and plenty of people say they love my art. I rarely get comms, but that's fine cause it's mostly for me anyways.
Yes Talent is overrated, most artists have put in the work to draw good, most high level artists were not overly talented if at all, they were stubborn. The business point is true, sadly, has nothing to do with art itself.
i dont think people realize that to call urself an artist, professional and career wise, means marketing yourself and living off creating. which means knowing how to do business and sell out your art. now doing art as a hobby is different, and i feel like people are mistaking that with professional artistry and making it more personal than what it is.
I have never had any sort of natural talent as an artist, and it makes things a lot harder, but people can be talented and hard working. You don’t have to have one or the other. But people without natural talent have to work harder by default
I don't have any talent, I'm at a level that some people reach at half my age. But I'm finally out of the uncanny valley stage so fuck yeah! Time to celebrate! 😊🎉
Talent is a myth. People can have certain innate abilities, like being able to turn objects around in their head, having exceptional color acuity, but that only takes you so far if you rest on your laurels. I often hear "talent is 5%, hard work is 95%". I've seen way too many "talented" artists outstripped by hard workers. If you put in the time, put your work in front of people who want to see it, you'll have an audience.
@@moonstar_draws6283 You know, I've seen examples of people who are "incredibly talented," but these are just years of practice and skill improvement. They actually improved their art very slowly. But they live by it. However, when they don't have any business skills or love at all, oh... It's very difficult for them to succeed, and it's very, very hard work, because they wouldn't want to be businessmen or their own advertising agents. They would just like to be artists.
I don't consider myself an artist, but a copist. What I mean by that is I have a photographic and editic memory, what I see I can replicate, I use this ability to replicate art of show accurate anime characters, video game characters, comic book characters, & cartoon characters. I can draw original art and original characters, it just takes longer and is much harder for me so I don't often do original art, instead opting for fan art.
The only thing I don’t enjoy is how they imply talent is born, I believe it’s honed. Not born. It’s not black and white like that. Especially in art, which is one of the most subjective thing in the world. What one person thinks is amazing, might be novice to someone else.
I feel like this guy is missing out on a business opportunity to offer up services to artists who aren’t very good at business and marketing. It seems to be what this guy’s more interested in anyway.
Is this person even an artist? I can't even see any of their art? They don't put their art out there but they're telling artists how they should go about their business? I mean of course, something ppl need to understand is that Stylized Station's business isn't actually making money off their art - their business makes money from selling courses to struggling artists on how to get their business going. Those 2 are not the same thing and this entire post is a marketing strategy to convince more people to buy the course.
I don’t see what role “late stage capitalism” plays in all this. I agree with your points, marketing is incredibly important, but it isn’t because of late stage capitalism but because there is a large supply of artists and the demand hasn’t grown at the same rate. These problems would exist in a socialist government as well except it would take the form of the government discouraging people becoming artist if the demand for artist has already been met.
While some might view it as a burden that you need to master the business side as an artist to grow successful, I find it to be rather reassuring to know it's not my art that has been the problem all those years I've been trying to make it my main income. I've always thought I needed to improve more and more that my previous drawings were bad and that I needed to keep going, draw one drawing after another to gain success but truthfully while working so hard on improving my skills I ghosted my followers in a way while I was off trying to create something better they will hopefully like but by doing that I abandoned them, my audience and thus when it was time to post my art they were gone since the algorithm unfortunately does you like that if you are not consistent enough.. some artists are lucky and can disappear and re appear once they have new art while still having that big crowd applauding them but many are not that blessed, I am one of them. I've always given 90% to art and 10% to the business side which was a huge failure.. I do still believe that you should never stop the strive to improve but at the same time do not undermine your current skills and treat the work you already have put out like it's good enough to be loved by people. And in order for your work to be loved you need to get an audience to look at it which you will only achieve through focusing on the business side by 70% I'd say while the remaining 30% is art. And you'd think 30% for art is little but it really is not, anything else will burn you out in the long run like you should rather focus to create art you love within those 30% than creating one drawing after another hoping one will find its success by itself. My only current problem is that everyone saying to focus on the business side is being too vague for my liking, I do not have a business degree so how am I supposed to know where to start, I need clear advice but that advice usually is behind a pay wall which I can't afford :') Truthfully I have never consistently done the business aspect even with the resources that are out for free so that is my fault. I want to change it tho and give myself 2 months to see progress, maybe it's too little but I never even have done 1 week so we are taking it step by step for now. Wish me luck!
yes it is frustating but true what the person who made the thread said, it is something you are told if you go into college for art. BUT I do absulutly think there needs to be a balance since a big part of content creation is to be human, and have people like not just what you can do, but you as well, and there you do need to be mainly yourself for it to even work. viewing your art as just a busniess isn't going to be helpful for most people, but partly undestanding that it is a product, that is important.
Ironically I feel like you do need to have some kind of innate talent in order to do marketing/business stuff, but art is completely learnable without any talent as long as you put in enough time. Like, I logically know the “identify your target audience, create engaging free content, build a community, funnel them to paid resources, profit”. But that’s way different than “draw something, figure out what's wrong, repeat” that art is. It's infinitely more frustrating to put effort into a social media post - thinking about how fits into a strategy and the value pillars and the hashtags and stuff - .just for it to flop, than draw something that doesn’t look great and then try to fix it
The wording is harsh butt they are not wrong honestly, and it makes people miserable because frankly to make art your moneymaker you HAVE to put yourself aside alot of the time until you have made it and can then pick and choose as much as we want to push for art to change and "think of the artist" it really won't change... you will never be like the "best" who all really have the exact same art styles selling a sketchy headshot for $80 sb or even more if you are thinking about what you want to do only
Marketing is indeed important if you want to build a brand as a youtuber for exaple or a following on sozial media but going from "i have no talent" to this without putting the effort in to earn this so called "talent" would not work eigther. For me this sounds like "you dont need to practise art just become a buisnessman" and that could give new Artists or Creators a wrong impression. Even building a brand and marketing is a skill you need to learn and art is the same. Artists are allowed to learn buisness and marketing to grow but you still need some dedication to the craft or you are just a buisnessman who sells art. IMO we should not talk about this with Terms such as Talent or Buisness altogether because both are just skills that need practise, dedication and trial and error. TLDR: OP is not entirely wrong about what they said but needs to re-think the way they phrase things. Maybe talk less about Talent and Buisness and fokus more on the aspect to learn this different kind of skill sets and how to combine them.
I wish i did. as i put all my time in glass blowing and make stuff i love forget i need to sell stuff and well nonthing sold i never able to keep it going as the cost got too much. I had give up on my dream of be glass blowing. now i made my new goals an dream make other happy with streaming every day.
Jeez...what? Sorry but my drawings are my hobby....I'm not exploiting my art for business purposes, ruins the purpose of "hobby" in my eyes. If you wanna profit off of your art then thats fine, you have your own decisions you solely make that either goes well or completely backfires. For anyone who does sell their art I am not being rude of hateful to those people. If it works, it works, I just personally won't join that crowd😅😂
@mimilapin What? Thats technically what it is in a general sense, you know if you do business you exploit your own talents and such to be able to make a profit, sooo technically speaking yeah thats what it is 😂
It's ironic, really. This persona shows that "without talent," they were able to become successful through marketing and a business approach. That is, an artist without marketing but with talent is likely to be less successful. So it literally means that talent is UNDERRATED, people don't appreciate talent unless it's sold to them.
@@Kyrmana But why don't those people who find this art, made with talent but without marketing, share it with others? Why would most people walk by, even if they see it? The Internet can make a lot of things trending, but still, why does this happen so rarely and why do most people not care about art that is not created specifically suitable for the masses of consumers? In the end, it's not surprising that AI images are very popular, because they can be made exactly the way consumers want them to be...
@@Kyrmana Not always. I think you're smart enough to understand what cases I'm talking about. These are cases when something valuable and unique simply exists without regard for the thread and the target audience, but still attracts attention. However, this rarely happens.
![I.N "HALLUCINATION" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/n5B5q1Hwt_U/mqdefault.jpg)
As an artist i really don't like the word "talent" makes it seem like some kind of magic or genetic power to explain that some people are better at art. I feel that a more accurate word would be passion or drive, so even if you're puttig the effort on the skill side or marketing side of you career as an artist, you're still being passionate as an artist, as the goal would be to showcase and live off your art to be able to make more art !!
100% agree! "Talent" as a concept is capitalistic and dystopian. The idea that people are born being good at one thing, and that's what you're "destined" to do. A Brave New World was a dystopian novel about people being forced to do Only One Thing 😅
90% of talent comes from a determination to get better. It take practice and study. DaVinci literally went down to a margue to study and codify human anatomy. He made sketches. The human body most basic average form has consistent proportions and yes these are a little different person to person, but a decent human can be made just by following thos proportions, there's all sorts of tricks to make 2D images appear 3D.
@@EndoftheBeginning17 idk the exact number but probably it's half talent and drive. how would you explain 3 year old violin prodigies.
Exactly, talent is bull. It's mostly nurture than nature
Real talent exists though. Some people do just have an extremely easier time learning than others. Passion is completely separate, it can just be mistaken for talent when viewed from the outside. You don't need passion when you have enough talent. That's the simple truth.
True success would still need some work, but passion is not necessary.
Less talent = more passion needed
Seeing my art as business always makes me so nauseous, I tried and hated every drawing I did at this time. I understand how important that is, but it's just so hard.
@@kaizobear4818 Why is it so important to turn your feelings and soul into a commodity and a business?
@tonysparda9281 , because otherwise it's hard to make a living out of it, working full time artist feels better when you work on yourself then on person who will replace you with AI
@@kaizobear4818 To be honest, I don't understand the desire to make art work for a living in the sense that people usually talk about it. Only a small percentage of people can be an indispensable artist in the gaming industry or in cinema or design. Most artists, even talented ones, are doomed to get stuck somewhere in drawing sprites for casual mobile games in the style set by the customer. Besides, when you start turning what you love to do into work, it's a sure way to hate it. There are a huge number of professions in the world in which human labor cannot be replaced and they are able to provide experience that could be valuable in art and would make art unique. For me, art is life, not work.
@@tonysparda9281”sighs in animator”
@@tonysparda9281 yet another person advocating for art to be unpaid. I loved working in animation, even if I was meh on the show I got to create every day. If YOU dont like making art for money thats fine. Not everyone can do it. Not every hobbiest can turn their hobby into their career. However many people can and do. Be careful of what you say because you sound like you think its bad when artists want a career in art.
let's be real when are people on twitter not angry
True lol
people on twitter have opinions, crazy concept I know. everyday people in the world or on other online sites are mad, it's no different on twitter. it's just easier to hear about people being mad online, but it's no different then people irl
@Rainingechoes having an opinion is one thing. Trolling and getting mad for every little inconvenience is another.
@@Karmaisabreez there's much less people who troll then there is that just get mad online lol. besides, that wasn't what I or the comment I replied to is talking about, so no idea why you brought it up
Lmfao, yeah, the density of people who see tweets / statements in the worst possible way on twitter is very high and it only gets higher with time.
„Hard work beats talent if talent doesn’t work hard” - words to live by.
My only personal issue with the "treat it like a business" is for the folks who will burnout if they go with that mindset
I'll use myself as an example since this is my opinion
When I was looking at my art as a business I kept looking at it and saying all the negative things about it because I felt like it wasn't good enough to post (IE lots of mistakes or I just never even finished the drawing) which ended up causing burn out for me. Not every mindset works for everyone and that's ok! Life isn't always a "one size fits all"
You can do both. Do what you like, but remember you’re in business.
@@pearlthenephilim Or just relax and let art be art. You don't have to think about it. It will be enough to find a job / business that will not cause you to burn out and will allow you to practice art.
Treat it like a business if you're trying to make it a business. If this is a hobby, this doesn't matter.
However, if you're wondering why you're not reaching your financial goals(for a business) then it might be your mindset. Though that isn't saying you should treat all your art as a business or think in a business like manner 24/7. That will increase burnout. But self employed artists(writers, creatives, etc) do need to wear "different hats". Businessman, promoter, artist, etc
Y'all this wasn't me asking for advice just an example that it doesn't work for everyone XD
I have seen artist do the same even when not seeing it as a business but as a hobby
I think the dissonance happening here is artistic people not wanting to admit they’re personally not cut out for online content creation. And that is fine. You don’t have to look at your art as a business or as a way to make money. But essentially, don’t go in thinking big platforms just drew x thing -> secret algorithmic luck -> got rich and famous. The “luck” was consistency and marketing.
To me, OP outlined a very specific concept with a very specific goal in mind. For a very specific type of person. And surprise, it was genuinely helpful advice for ppl who share the same aspirations and endgame. If it doesn’t apply to you then carry on.
Twitter is always up and arms about how people “word things” as if we’ve all collectively forgotten intention and nuance .
For real! This post isn't for my kind of artist but I'm not mad about it☠️I agree with them, and not everything is made for everyone
I been an artist for 4 years now and I can tell ya that anyone can become a professional artist. With that said, most artist lack 3 big things: discipline, consistency, and smart studying (analyzing your drawings, making notes of the mistakes, comparing, asking for feedback, and taking notes). I have seen some monster artists that improve so much in 1 or 2 years that you wouldn't believe it, but they're the type of artist that if you ask them to do an assignment they will give you 10 times more of what you asked them (for real, the amount of sketchbooks some of them have is never-ending). Art is not easy.
Yes! I've seen middle aged folks who want to switch into an art career, and go from 0 to incredibly proficient in 1-2 years.
Man, I was just talking about this on a reddit post the other day, I'm going to copy and paste what I said there: "It's an ongoing argument. I personally feel that talent helps because an artist sees the world differently than other people do (more observant over little details, colors, etc.). However, you can have all the talent in the world but if you don't work on your skill, you'll never improve. I've drawn all my life and considered myself to have talent but I went to an art school with a girl who never drawn but she improved at lightning speed because she honed the skill and was passionate about giving life to her ideas."
So basically, like you said, talent helps but art is a SKILL. Hone that skill and you will get better. Marketing is another skill that can help propel your art to give it more "value" (I'm putting it quotes for the sake of financial value, all art is valuable to me). It's a heavy topic among creators but that's just how the world works now.
Imo, I don’t like it when someone says the artist is just “born with it” because it feels like they’re downsizing their personal art journey. Every artist’s journey is unique and will apply methods to their art that will be different to someone else’s. It’s not the same for everyone.
As someone who grew up with an artist who was “born with it”, I know the feeling of jealously one gets because the other artist make it look easy when it’s not for me. It still doesn’t mean their journey is any easier, in my opinion. I watched her struggled many times, she nearly gave up on art many times. I’m so proud of her because she is in a place where she is content with her art and manages to sell her work which is awesome. Yes, she has talent but she worked hard to get where she is now and having talent shouldn’t diminish the progress she made. IMO.
Yeah it's 5% "talent" and 95% hard work. Anyone can create wonderful art! It's a shame our culture doesn't tend to value creation 😢
I wasn’t naturally talented at drawing from the start. I’ve had to practice for 13 years to get to where I am now, and I still draw in black and white because shading with color is way more difficult.
@@Lil_NootYou're not talented if you weren't from the start. You can't be unnaturally talented unless you're something like a head-injury induced savant.
The word you are looking for is 'skilled'.
I think it depends. If you see art as a hobby, or want a job that's in the industry this rule doesn't work for you. This is only a thing if you want to run an art business yourself...
Many studios don't choose artist they hire fulltime on the internet, they mostly do from applications... Looking at your portfolio & work.. I think it's way better because you don't really need to waste your time with social media ...
@@hiirosamagi This. All of this.
@@hiirosamagi Untrue. Been working in animation for over a decade, and I've both found jobs and have been contacted just from posting work online. You're right it's not necessary, but it can be a leg up if you're starting out.
Hiring from applications is common for internships and trainee programs, but many jobs you're going to get from people who want to keep working with you.
not really true, a lot of artists for studio were found through social media or their internet content. It only doens't apply to hobbyist who are not trying to make art their career. It's easier to get in if the recruter already like your social media content
Imo you can be both talented and hard working, it doesn’t need to be left or right, for example im and artist and sure i have been born with talent but i still draw everyday to keep that talent, and i progress and improve because i also work hard for my dream!!
Drawing every day doesn't help keep talent, because talent is about how easily you learn something. If you work harder to increase/keep skill than others it actually signifies less talent.
I don't like the phrasing for a lot of the thread, at the start the word "overrated" nearly always sets up an "I'm right and other people are wrong" implication. But I mean, clickbait is what it is. Similarly "rewards the smartest" rather than the "talented", don't really agree with that one. It rewards putting yourself out there and working hard, above all. A lot of people brute force the marketing and selling part, because it's something you can learn, just like skill--you can pick it up in random engagement if you're good at talking to people, as well
Agree with the general sentiments, but I can see how the tone and some of the nuances would rub people the wrong way
You should look up the word Over rated in a dictionary. It has no implication like that whatsoever. It just means that people put way too much emphasis in something that at the end of the day doesn't put money in the bank and food on the table.
the only reason that could rub people the wrong way is because it put the accountability of their failure on themselves rather than the fatality of having no talent
@@EndoftheBeginning17 I didn't say that the word itself has that implication. It does however state your opinion of something by comparing it to other people's opinion of something. If you then go on to argue why you're right, rather than qualifying "my opinion" all the time, you get the implication very easily. I think it's deliberate here because they wanted twitter engagement and/or the discussion--I could be wrong, but strong guess
There's definitely truth to that thread, and there's some real, solid advice. I'm somewhere in the middle. Freelance art is my job, but I still consider it a fun hobby despite having a full schedule (daily tiktoks, weekly videos, streams, commissions, fanfiction updates and cross posting). I think it's also because i have a part-time in my chosen field, so i have a chance to balance my self-made schedule and my given schedule.
My family is full of businessmen ans lawyers, and they've given me business tips to grow but none of it ever stuck. It didn't feel right because my brand is quite fun, laidback and more about character analysis than a store or actual business. I just do what I enjoy and people seem to like it.
I think for me the biggest keypoint is INTERACTING with your community. I reply to comments daily, i love seeing what people say (and filtering out the rude ones) and i think it's made it fun for people to come back to my comments because they know theyre likely to get an answer and some interaction. It's nice to grt discussions going.
That's my personal experience anyway.
As someone that has been following Stylized Station for a while, I agree with what he had to say and how he responded to the criticism, basically saying that it is okay to what to take your passion and talent to a new level, through marketing and building a community thus in turn building a brand/business around your skill. I too am an artist and hope to one day make art that people want to take time out of their day to admire and maybe even purchase. It certainly does not mean that I am solely in it for the money or that I became lucky, it is because I got recognized by people that appreciate my effort and wanna support it going forward. (damn that was long. My bad lol)
'Talent is Overrated' is a great book for those into that sort of thing.
They right. Follower count doesn't mean shit 99% of the time. Especially on platforms like twitter that are full of dead accounts and bot accounts. What matters is interaction. What matters is treating your regulars well and building more regulars through a good reputation. That reputation if fostered by interaction. Posting sketches, posting WIPs, commenting on other artists' work and interacting with them, collabbing, making sure your ART accounts are ONLY ART and not flooded with other content. I learned traditional art in college. They MAKE you take business classes and learn how to network. You learn how to interact with galleries, you learn how to sell your art at local businesses, you learn to market *yourself* along with your art.
Definitely more on the artist side vs business side, I'm working on trying to create more engaging content and started new social media pages since my old ones have hundreds/thousands of followers, but only a handful of likes/comments
It's exactly about business vs art. In order to be successful on social media and get paid for your drawings, you don't have to have talent. You have to be your manager and your advertising agent. It takes hard work, but it's a completely different field, it's marketing. Whereas having talent and developing exactly this, spending years improving their skills, an artist can remain unknown to anyone and forced to work in any other jobs for the sake of money for a living. This just shows that talent is UNDERRATED, in a literal sense, society does not value talent without the ability to sell this talent.
This is so disheartening because i have what it takes art wise but business wise ? Nope. I'm scared I'll never be able to create an audience/community for my art and be able to create characters people care about or art people want to buy because truly its all I've ever wanted to do? And I know I'd work so hard to make a good piece for people but god, being social, putting myself out there is so stinking complicated. I don't understand how people have the capacity to plan, strategise and market themselves..
And just like, why do I have to make myself an entertainer to get people to care about my art ? I've never had that in me. It almost feels like "you're not enough. " and that can be so disheartening.
To anyone in the same situation, big emotional hug.
There are plenty of people who started out, or still are, people with low social batteries that are able to work within and around their limitations. I don't mean to sound preachy though. I've just been wondering how I could do the same myself because I'm also not good at entertaining people. I've never entertained a crowd or marketed my work, but seeing people who were once shy and awkward be able to start putting themselves out there down the line, it's got me thinking. Keep looking for little ways to make your desires a reality and maybe you'll find something that works for you :)
@evewhoo it doesn't sound preachy at all, it actually feels quite comforting and uplifting, so thank you for taking the time to respond. I tend to forget other people with low social batteries have managed to make it, I just get so in my head sometimes it's tough to think of it as a realistic possibility, if that makes sense?
You can do it too. The sheer fact you're thinking about it shows you'll find answer sooner or later. I'm rooting for you and I wish you the best of luck with your journey ! You can do it
I’ve had an extreme aversion to business and marketing since I was in grade school. I can’t morally stomach it even in instances where there’s nothing wrong with it. I just never wanted to get near it.
Not saying they're wrong, but personally, if I started viewing my art as a buissness, I genuinely think I would have stopped making art years ago. I'm the type of person where, if I'm not inspired to make something or I'm being told what and when to draw, I go through a major creative burnout to the point where I can't even start creating unless I get myself out of that mindset. My creativity thrives on creating what I'm interested in. If I try and focus on what other people want to see or what's popular, if it's not something I'm also interested in, I physically can not force myself into a creative space.
@@sk3llyb0nes Very true. I don't understand why everyone thinks it's necessary to turn everything into a business. Art, writing, crafting... Why do people think it's important and necessary to turn emotions, self-expression, and the very soul into a commodity?
@@tonysparda9281 it should absolutely be whatever you want it to be, I'm genuinely sick of people acting all high and mighty because they don't want to do what they love for a living. not everyone is cut out for it. enjoy your hobby by all means. but stop acting like it's better and more elevated because you don't make it your life's business. sorry it just makes me crazy with how people look down on those who make a living from their passion.
@@tonysparda9281 you gotta pay the bills lol
@@mimilapin Yeah, it's cool if a person can do what they like while getting paid for it and it doesn't lead to burnout, they're comfortable with this pace of work, and so on. But this is not the only way.
you will learn significantly more by spending less time on more projects rather than spending a month perfecting 1 thing, because you are not going to perfect anything ever and what took you a month will very quickly take you less time once you are more experienced
I agree! It also helps you to focus on only a couple of issues you want to fix or a specific skill you want to improve at hand rather than to dilute your focus by piling up more and more concerns or wants as you keep "perfecting" a single project. It's better to identify an issue and fix/improve upon it on the next iteration, it's an effective way to study art imo
...I turned what was supposed to be a 2h drawing into a 180h one over 4 months without even intending to, because stopping at 2h was still nowhere near an imperfect minimum viable product thingy lmao 🤷♀️😫
If your goal is to turn art into a career, all of that advice is 100% correct and valid. If you're not willing to play the marketing game and put in the backbreaking effort it takes to grow in that space... You won't grow. Or rather: You might grow, incredibly slowly and you'll be frustrated.
The OP is 100% correct. Art isn't about "talent" - it never was. It is a very sweet compliment (on that note: Artists need to learn how to take compliments, denying it doesn't make you humble, it makes you annoying), but we have to keep in mind that art is a skill, and skills are honed, not born out of the ether.
Personally, growth isn't my goal, as I'm a hobbyist and I view making as something fun and an occasional side gig. But, it doesn't mean it's incorrect, it's just different choices. Twitter just doesn't want to acknowledge it.
She’s 100% right. Also, being fast and personable. Great artist are admired, good artist get their work in on time and get a check.
I can see why people might have issue with some of their wording though, especially towards the end, they are parting their own back a bit too much, which could rub the wrong way for some.
I took an art history class and what you said about financial gain is absolutely true! In the age of the renaissance it actually was practice to essentially keep artists as pets lol. A very wealthy family, for example the Medici family, would make an agreement with an artist to provide them housing in their own home/on their own land (because remember these are insanely rich families) at no cost, all necessities provided, so be able to have the artist create art freely and then have that art displayed in their home, because the amount of art a family owned added to their value/reputation. So yes, not having to worry about finances DOES enable more art! That is one reason why the business aspect matters to a lot of artists.
He is not selling his art. He's selling "if you take my course you can make your dreams true."
100% this, I wish more people realized. For god's sake - they don't even post any of their art online yet they're telling us we should be posting everything LOL
Old Man Artist here: Talent is a myth. 9_9 It's a synonym for "Interest in Thing." Some people pick up art faster because, even temporarily, they are more interested, pay closer attention, and practice more. At best, "Talent" is a lucky collation of skills built due to other "Interest in thing."
What I'm trying to say is, the secret to Art is Arting. The more you want the art, the better as arting you'll get. Once you stop wanting to art, improving will become harder. You'll lose "Interest in Thing."
VEEEERY interested in the Business bits of this vid, tho. I'm crap at business, but can at least keep the lights on, if barely sometimes. I may have to take a class in Business basics and think of my art as a service. 9_9 Hmmm... I should want to do that more.
They are right and made some great points. Artists are too attached to the identity of an artist and how their art is so personal. Probably thinking that business is therefore soulless, or something of the like. But will then complain about poor engagement, lack of followers, etc. An old acquaintance from college was talking down to artists with bigger followings and i pointed out that its not about the quantity of followers but the quality and they just blocked me. Even though what i said was true it just conflicted with what he wanted.
And to the people who say treating your art as a business will lead to burn out. Maybe. But so will producing your art while working a job you hate. Everything can lead to burn out, burn out is unavoidable, especially if theres no balance in your life. You have to treat aspects of your art like a business if you want to make money. But you need to stay grounded too.
Saying "you're just lucky that you got here" kinda disregards all of the work and efforts you put in which is kind of annoying in my opinion, I'm not saying luck isn't part of success IT IS
14:00 I find it quite ironic because people love art, we consume art all the time and it's one of the thing we like the most and yet artist are undervalued. Because the craft is not recognized
Seeing art as a business is unfortunately the fastest way to burn you out though. People need to also see that art is already time consuming and expecting for us to also do marketing videos or whatever JUST to get people to look at your work. This is genuinely what upsets me nowadays for it really wasn’t like this back then. More people need to learn to share art from the original artist more if they enjoy the work instead of liking and walking away… so while i agree with the points, one person can only do so much.
@@Aur0raAura It seems to me that there is something wrong with the public consciousness in general, when most people treat art as a business and what is tedious must be turned into material profit... like... It's an art form. Emotions, experience, a window into the soul, the most human thing in the world to do. Seeing art only as a business is why AI pictures are now everywhere and displacing artists.
Genuinely though, my small businesses of my art failed because I didn't know how to market it at all.
twitter birds always be angry
This mindset really just depends on what you want out of art.
Do you want to draw what you want and make art because it makes you feel good? Treat art as art. Treat it as a hobby and work on your skill to get your art where you want it to be and don’t care about numbers over how the art makes you feel.
Do you want to make art for a job or a career? Keep a business mindset and think of who you want to show your art to and notice if it gets there or not. Figure out how to market your art to your wanted audience.
But always keep in mind your own limits. You may want it as a job, but the business mindset burns you out. Then you need a new view point or a middle ground. The business mindset works for some, but not all.
Though, some phrasing of the op is weird. Like them using talent and skill interchangeably. It’s not. Talent is something some people have by how they see and connect to the world, but that only gets you so far. Practice grows skill, and you need that, otherwise you won’t grow to where you want, marketing or no.
i don know man, it all sounds like common sense to me.
It's still down to luck and privileges if someone ends up worldwide success or not etc.
At 25, I found myself losing another dead-end job in retail a week before Christmas because corporate shut the store down. I have always been a creative at heart and knew I wanted to persue a more freelance of entrepreneur lane in the future so I didn't find myself in the same position again. I work predominantly online, I knew 5 years post my degree, half of what I learned could be irrelevant. So I got myself a business degree with a minor in finance. I honestly feel deep down the purest mentality that you can't focus on both business and art or be both a business person and an artist comes from those who struggle to do both and they view being able to do both as some form of cheating or poisoning the well for the competition but that's not fair. You don't get to police talented artists because people will wait months or years for their commissions to open, you don't get to shame a different artist who has the same line based on marketing alone.
In my case I made three accounts for art
and in all three I always thought the same thing: “I'm not good enough”.
What happened? I never finished growing account because I believed that what mattered was the end of each drawing, I always thought “Ah well, I lack practice, but when I get to THIS level, I'll be good and everyone will appreciate what I do”.
Spoiler, never happened. No matter how much practice and theory you have, if you don't SHOW the way, your practices, sketches, wips, etc. No one will ever know of your existence and life happens.
That happened to me for being purist and classist (in extreme combination to perfectionism).
Don't be like me, if you want to do it as a hobby, great, but if you aspire to work in this, show yourselves. POST YOUR WORK.
Your favorite artist I'm sure has the same doubts that their art is not good enough, and yet they continue to post their art and grow with their community and have the mindset to pay the bills at the end of the day lol
Agreed, also I feel that gone are the days when we used to post on social media (anybody remember deviantart) for the sake of just connecting with others. It seems like all art is about business now. :(
@@dominique9109 Yes, that's true too, everything is business nowadays. Which is sad :/
It's as if everything has to get an economic benefit, which is fine, but in part kills the artistic soul of the simple fact of wanting to draw for pleasure, the saying “If you're good at something, never do it for free” is not always a good concept haha
“You are not an artist, you’re a business man” is wild to me. Like why do we have to mark people as “less passionate” when they want to also make money from the things they made?, people can still be passionate and want to be able to live man
I wish I didn’t have to think about audiences :(
“Meh meh meh that’s who you’re selling to” I KNOW
But like
I just wish I could make what I want without the worry that if others don’t like it I won’t get money.
You can. Make what you want and create merch with it, and allow it to garner you passive income. Focus on marketing the pieces you love and it should be easier because you are passionate about that. When you are passionate about them, other people are passionate about them too. There are a lot of helpful "art as a business" videos out there, but for someone like you, finding a trustworthy merch partner/website selling prints, posters, mugs, whatever is a decent way to start earning passive income. You can also go to art or other related conventions that overlap with your personal interests (maybe you make fanart of anime or comics or something) - selling merch at those is also a viable way to make profits on your art.
Submit it to local contests and such, too. My local pot shop back in Michigan would regularly hire and promote local artists to create logos, merch, and various other marketing art assets for them that they could both mutually benefit from. Highly recommend looking into things like that. Afterall, the more you want to do it, the better the art will be, the more people will want some of it. Most creatives do not thrive when they are forcing themselves to do something they don't want to do.
Oh man, Stylized Station. That guy had some of THE WORST art takes I've ever seen and makes inflamatory content to push his own products.
I guess the algorithm rewards inflammatory posts (esp Twitter) so maybe that's part of the business strategy 😅
Artist: “I’m an ARTIST, not a business person. Marketing & business plan are below me.” Same artist: “Why is no one buying my art? Why can’t I support myself on my art??? 😭😭😭😭”
Treat it like a business if you're trying to make it a business. If this is a hobby, this doesn't matter.
However, if you're wondering why you're not reaching your financial goals(for a business) then it might be your mindset. Though that isn't saying you should treat all your art as a business or think in a business like manner 24/7. That will increase burnout. But self employed artists(writers, creatives, etc) do need to wear "different hats". Businessman, promoter, artist, etc
Me as someone who suffers from serve OCD and has panic attacks if i even try to make something imperfect along with me being an control freak and if something is not done right then i lose it. So I'm kinda screwed either way here lol
Hey! My OCD manifests in the same way. The treatment is to make mistakes on purpose. Color a little bit out of the line. Put a timer on and *stop* when time is up.
It feels awful, I know. There's nothing like OCD anxiety. But you HAVE to sit there and feel it. Start doing this once a week, and please be very gentle with yourself. You'll give into your compulsions sometimes. But over time, you *will* teach your brain that doing this doesn't end in catastrophe.
OCD comes and goes in waves, so when you overcome this compulsion, it might pop up again later in a different form. You know you can handle it.
OCD doesn't get to dictate what your life will look like. Yes, it's harder for us. We have to work harder. But the world DESERVES YOUR ART!
In terms of proper OCD treatments, ERP is the best therapy, but if you can't afford it, check if there's a GOAL group in your area (free OCD support group). You'll probably also want to get an rX for an SSRI, too. Talk to your doctor! Also Brainlock is a great book. Dr. John Grayson's book and work is excellent, too.
i went from doing 3d art for fun, having basicly no sales, to finding a small base of furries and centering my shop around them. Within a yer I was making enough to live off off by changing how I marketed myself and who I was targeting. Im not even a furry lol. My talent didnt suddenly improve. I just got smarter at how I put myself out there.
Honorary Furry 🐾 Nice community who values the work put into your art. no shame in that :)
That 🧵is GOLD
It took me 2 years to get to draw good face anatomy but I still can’t draw good full body’s and I sometimes get put down when I see some ones drawing tutorials where they say if you can’t draw like this it’s impossible to draw but I like drawing again while’s seeing your videos (I don’t like colour)
Ngl seeing that the OP is someone selling courses and all that it just kinda gives fitness influencer who talks down about one thing so they can sell you something. There are some good points in there but the wording is god awful and discredits the work that goes into even those that are talented. And like others stated seeing art as a business and solely a business is a very fast way for you to burn yourself out. There needs to be some level of enjoyment in the craft alongside the other aspects so to keep from the crash and burn. Some people can indeed do that and ngl all the power to them but it's also a good way a lot of artists have burnt themselves out and I've seen the latter so much more than the former over my years on the net. But yeah the tone and phrasing is really bad so it kinda makes sense people not exactly vibing with the post. The OP may have a business and sell courses to people (which tbh I find very scammy having done a moment to look up who this individual is) but they kinda really don't have the knowledge how to really talk to people like people. People are more receptive when it doesn't feel like they're being talked down to and highkey that's the tone of that whole thing. More flies with honey and all that shindig. This is just my ten cents I suppose. I've seen much better threads talk business sense in better means from people not selling courses so yeah.
I draw for clout but no one likes my art that much, so not having talent really screws me over.
good video and thread though.
That’s cringey as fuck but at least you admit it I guess
@Hyenaraptor it's often said that honesty is a good thing. I only desire to know I'm doing a good job so I'm not blinded by any potential personal bias 👍
They are 100% speaking truth. Talent can only get you so far.
I know I could of gotten so many comms if I actually marketed myself cause my art is pretty cheap and plenty of people say they love my art. I rarely get comms, but that's fine cause it's mostly for me anyways.
Yes Talent is overrated, most artists have put in the work to draw good, most high level artists were not overly talented if at all, they were stubborn. The business point is true, sadly, has nothing to do with art itself.
i dont think people realize that to call urself an artist, professional and career wise, means marketing yourself and living off creating. which means knowing how to do business and sell out your art. now doing art as a hobby is different, and i feel like people are mistaking that with professional artistry and making it more personal than what it is.
Personality and imperfect works that show humanity will only become more and more important with the rise of AI as well!!
idk they sound kinda butthurt. but its twitter so when aren't they?
I have never had any sort of natural talent as an artist, and it makes things a lot harder, but people can be talented and hard working. You don’t have to have one or the other. But people without natural talent have to work harder by default
I don't have any talent, I'm at a level that some people reach at half my age. But I'm finally out of the uncanny valley stage so fuck yeah! Time to celebrate! 😊🎉
Talent is a myth. People can have certain innate abilities, like being able to turn objects around in their head, having exceptional color acuity, but that only takes you so far if you rest on your laurels.
I often hear "talent is 5%, hard work is 95%". I've seen way too many "talented" artists outstripped by hard workers. If you put in the time, put your work in front of people who want to see it, you'll have an audience.
@@moonstar_draws6283 You know, I've seen examples of people who are "incredibly talented," but these are just years of practice and skill improvement. They actually improved their art very slowly. But they live by it. However, when they don't have any business skills or love at all, oh... It's very difficult for them to succeed, and it's very, very hard work, because they wouldn't want to be businessmen or their own advertising agents. They would just like to be artists.
Ever since I left Twitter I’ve known peace
I don't consider myself an artist, but a copist. What I mean by that is I have a photographic and editic memory, what I see I can replicate, I use this ability to replicate art of show accurate anime characters, video game characters, comic book characters, & cartoon characters. I can draw original art and original characters, it just takes longer and is much harder for me so I don't often do original art, instead opting for fan art.
That's pretty cool!
Its always twitter :/
The only thing I don’t enjoy is how they imply talent is born, I believe it’s honed. Not born. It’s not black and white like that.
Especially in art, which is one of the most subjective thing in the world. What one person thinks is amazing, might be novice to someone else.
Talent is born by definition. It can't *not* be innate, nor can it be honed. You are talking about skill. They are quite different concepts.
I feel like this guy is missing out on a business opportunity to offer up services to artists who aren’t very good at business and marketing. It seems to be what this guy’s more interested in anyway.
Babe wake up katliente posted
Is this person even an artist? I can't even see any of their art? They don't put their art out there but they're telling artists how they should go about their business?
I mean of course, something ppl need to understand is that Stylized Station's business isn't actually making money off their art - their business makes money from selling courses to struggling artists on how to get their business going. Those 2 are not the same thing and this entire post is a marketing strategy to convince more people to buy the course.
I don’t see what role “late stage capitalism” plays in all this. I agree with your points, marketing is incredibly important, but it isn’t because of late stage capitalism but because there is a large supply of artists and the demand hasn’t grown at the same rate. These problems would exist in a socialist government as well except it would take the form of the government discouraging people becoming artist if the demand for artist has already been met.
While some might view it as a burden that you need to master the business side as an artist to grow successful, I find it to be rather reassuring to know it's not my art that has been the problem all those years I've been trying to make it my main income. I've always thought I needed to improve more and more that my previous drawings were bad and that I needed to keep going, draw one drawing after another to gain success but truthfully while working so hard on improving my skills I ghosted my followers in a way while I was off trying to create something better they will hopefully like but by doing that I abandoned them, my audience and thus when it was time to post my art they were gone since the algorithm unfortunately does you like that if you are not consistent enough.. some artists are lucky and can disappear and re appear once they have new art while still having that big crowd applauding them but many are not that blessed, I am one of them.
I've always given 90% to art and 10% to the business side which was a huge failure.. I do still believe that you should never stop the strive to improve but at the same time do not undermine your current skills and treat the work you already have put out like it's good enough to be loved by people.
And in order for your work to be loved you need to get an audience to look at it which you will only achieve through focusing on the business side by 70% I'd say while the remaining 30% is art.
And you'd think 30% for art is little but it really is not, anything else will burn you out in the long run like you should rather focus to create art you love within those 30% than creating one drawing after another hoping one will find its success by itself.
My only current problem is that everyone saying to focus on the business side is being too vague for my liking, I do not have a business degree so how am I supposed to know where to start, I need clear advice but that advice usually is behind a pay wall which I can't afford :') Truthfully I have never consistently done the business aspect even with the resources that are out for free so that is my fault. I want to change it tho and give myself 2 months to see progress, maybe it's too little but I never even have done 1 week so we are taking it step by step for now. Wish me luck!
yes it is frustating but true what the person who made the thread said, it is something you are told if you go into college for art. BUT I do absulutly think there needs to be a balance since a big part of content creation is to be human, and have people like not just what you can do, but you as well, and there you do need to be mainly yourself for it to even work. viewing your art as just a busniess isn't going to be helpful for most people, but partly undestanding that it is a product, that is important.
Ironically I feel like you do need to have some kind of innate talent in order to do marketing/business stuff, but art is completely learnable without any talent as long as you put in enough time. Like, I logically know the “identify your target audience, create engaging free content, build a community, funnel them to paid resources, profit”. But that’s way different than “draw something, figure out what's wrong, repeat” that art is. It's infinitely more frustrating to put effort into a social media post - thinking about how fits into a strategy and the value pillars and the hashtags and stuff - .just for it to flop, than draw something that doesn’t look great and then try to fix it
You still have to develop your natural talent, and creativity can't be taught. 🤷♀️
Eh well I don’t sell art like I personally like showing it off but maybe in the future? not rn lol
The wording is harsh butt they are not wrong honestly, and it makes people miserable because frankly to make art your moneymaker you HAVE to put yourself aside alot of the time until you have made it and can then pick and choose as much as we want to push for art to change and "think of the artist" it really won't change... you will never be like the "best" who all really have the exact same art styles selling a sketchy headshot for $80 sb or even more if you are thinking about what you want to do only
Marketing is indeed important if you want to build a brand as a youtuber for exaple or a following on sozial media but going from "i have no talent" to this without putting the effort in to earn this so called "talent" would not work eigther. For me this sounds like "you dont need to practise art just become a buisnessman" and that could give new Artists or Creators a wrong impression. Even building a brand and marketing is a skill you need to learn and art is the same. Artists are allowed to learn buisness and marketing to grow but you still need some dedication to the craft or you are just a buisnessman who sells art. IMO we should not talk about this with Terms such as Talent or Buisness altogether because both are just skills that need practise, dedication and trial and error.
TLDR: OP is not entirely wrong about what they said but needs to re-think the way they phrase things. Maybe talk less about Talent and Buisness and fokus more on the aspect to learn this different kind of skill sets and how to combine them.
thanksgiving
I wish i did. as i put all my time in glass blowing and make stuff i love forget i need to sell stuff and well nonthing sold i never able to keep it going as the cost got too much. I had give up on my dream of be glass blowing. now i made my new goals an dream make other happy with streaming every day.
Jeez...what? Sorry but my drawings are my hobby....I'm not exploiting my art for business purposes, ruins the purpose of "hobby" in my eyes. If you wanna profit off of your art then thats fine, you have your own decisions you solely make that either goes well or completely backfires. For anyone who does sell their art I am not being rude of hateful to those people. If it works, it works, I just personally won't join that crowd😅😂
"exploiting" 😂 WOW
@mimilapin What? Thats technically what it is in a general sense, you know if you do business you exploit your own talents and such to be able to make a profit, sooo technically speaking yeah thats what it is 😂
It's ironic, really. This persona shows that "without talent," they were able to become successful through marketing and a business approach. That is, an artist without marketing but with talent is likely to be less successful. So it literally means that talent is UNDERRATED, people don't appreciate talent unless it's sold to them.
More like you can't appreciate art if you never see it in the first place.
@@Kyrmana But why don't those people who find this art, made with talent but without marketing, share it with others? Why would most people walk by, even if they see it? The Internet can make a lot of things trending, but still, why does this happen so rarely and why do most people not care about art that is not created specifically suitable for the masses of consumers? In the end, it's not surprising that AI images are very popular, because they can be made exactly the way consumers want them to be...
@@tonysparda9281 You're gonna laugh but word-of-mouth marketing is still marketing
@@Kyrmana Not always. I think you're smart enough to understand what cases I'm talking about. These are cases when something valuable and unique simply exists without regard for the thread and the target audience, but still attracts attention. However, this rarely happens.
@@tonysparda9281 Sure thing, doomer
Twitter at the winest😅
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