Rings of power people: *attempt to speak* Tolkien fans: "Be silent! Keep your forked tongue behind your teeth. We have not watched Jackson's works and tolkien's books millions of times to trade words with talentless worms"
Where is the horse and the rider? Where is the horn that was blowing? They have passed like rain on the mountains, like wind in the meadow. The days have gone down in the West, behind the hills... into Shadow. ...How did it come to this ? _ _ _ Note: this is a good adaptation, by Jackson's team, of the original text which is "Where now the horse and the rider? Where is the horn that was blowing? Where is the helm and the hauberk, and the bright hair flowing? Where is the hand on the harpstring, and the red fire glowing? Where is the spring and the harvest and the tall corn growing? They have passed like rain on the mountain, like a wind in the meadow; The days have gone down in the West behind the hills into shadow. Who shall gather the smoke of the dead wood burning, Or behold the flowing years from the Sea returning?"
Wait, wait... Isildur's supposed to be read as a villain? Since when? He was a man who got corrupted by the Middle Earth equivalent of a demon. At the very last minute at that, the man resisted Sauron's influence all the way up until he was literally standing IN Sauron's most powerful place, and THEN he failed. That doesn't make him a villain...
Yeah. Tolkien’s point with Isildur and the ring is that all men, even the best of us, are corruptible. We all struggle with envy, pride, greed, all things the Ring and Sauron preys upon. Isildur is a failed or fallen hero, not really a villain like Sauron and Saruman.
Resisted influence is putting it lightly. The dude went with his father to lead his people alongside the elves and some dwarves to the deciding battle that shut down Sauron's activities for millenia.
The "cast it into the fire" thing was only made for the movie though, wasn't it? I thought in the actual lore there was no intention on anyone's part to destroy the ring at that time.
8 things it does better? -Insufferable girlboss protag is done better -Butchering of lore is done better -Disregarding of the lore is done better -Contempt for original material and author done better -Contempt for fans done better -Nonsense and illogical world building done better -Creating plotholes done better -Failing at getting positive reaction and engagement from the audience done better
Reminds me of what the old wizard tells tobuscus in that wizards adventure game. “Let’s talk about what you are doing right.” “You are failing correctly. I’ve never seen anybody fail so well.”
Everyone in the Peter Jackson films was so invested in the lore and their characters that nothing could stop them. Sean climbed up to filming locations in full costume, Orlando broke his rib yet set the standard for the grace of how elves move and fight, Viggo broke his toes and ran all over the mountains for the overhead shots of hunting the orcs, John dislocated his knee and still put everything into Gimli. The behind the scenes of the LOTR trilogy is just as amazing as the films themselves. Anyone involved in rings of power sounds like they’d quit at the slightest inconvenience.
Also, Christopher Lee was a very devoted Tolkien fan who could name all of the 5 wizards from memory, including the two blue wizards. Look at interviews and see how many, even basic, facts about the lore the rings of Power actors could get right. Most of them had no idea: the only one who seems to have actually known his stuff was the actor who played Elendil (I forget his name).
Obligatory reminder that everyone jokingly predicted that the show called Rings of Power would contain the forging of the Rings of Power in a 20 second montage, and they were correct. 😂😂🤣🤣😭😭🤮🤮
Lol! I think I said the same thing but didn't think it would actually happen so I was right and wrong. 🤣 What I didn't predict was how lame Sauron's influence on their forging would be
Stupidity is predictable. Yeah, that was funny AF. So much wasted potential, I mean so many people wish they would’ve had the chance to do some thing like this well
Peter Jackson not openly stating it but subtlety showing Aragorn taking Boromir's Gondor vambraces after his death is such a small detail that only a book reader would even notice or understand. Peter Jackson put this minor scene in 'The Fellowship of the Ring" because he knew how important it was to Aragorn's character arc. That scene brings me to tears everytime. Jackson had nothing but love and respect for the work of Tolkien and I thank God every day for giving us a director with that sort of passion.
@awhellnah__ The Hobbit is the perfect example of studio execs showing up and pretending they know more about an IP and its fandom than they really do.
@@ahoyforsenchou7288 Exactly correct. All the hate and vitriol I have seen leveled at the Hobbit movies can be laid squarely at the feet of Warner Brothers. Not the least egregious was the bait-and-switch they did to Evangeline Lily over the "love triangle" debacle. Moreover, I understand that PJ originally pitched LOTR to Warner, who wanted the script revised to have two of the hobbits die.
11 месяцев назад+29
@awhellnah__ The Hobbit is a master piece compared to the shitty Rings of Power.
Truuuue, at least in that case, it had some cool action moments, decently cool (if not always deep) characters, and a story that actually makes sense (even if it doesn't entirely adhere to the book itself). Kinda makes me think of how the Star Wars prequels are in comparison to the new trilogy. Clearly better written than what came after, even if not everyone enjoys/thinks highly of it.@
The rings of power was forgotten after it was released. I’ve rewatched the original trilogy of lord of the rings so many times I can quote it from memory. While it wasn’t entirely faithful to the books it wasn’t bastardized like the rings of power. Lord of the rings was a work of art
Peter jacksons trilogy stands as a great standard for movie adaptations, being faithful to the source while making the story fit a movie runtime. I rarely see a movie or series as close to the source as the Lord of the rings.
No sane person will quote "Guyladriel" and have a knot on the throat as I, a woman! Have when I hear the speeches of King Theoden before battle and Aragorn before Mordor. First time I understood on a visceral way why people fight and die for leaders and ideas.
2 things can be true at once. Gimlii was, indeed, reduced to a comic relief in the movies (like Ron Wisley was in the Harry Potters movies) but it is also true his friendship with Legolas is very well made. But Gimlii being reduced to a comic relief isn't a defense for Ring of Power or anything close to that.
“How do you know it’s bad if you haven’t seen it?” “It’s not my phucking job to give you a chance! It’s YOUR job to entice me through the door!” -AZ a.k.a. Heels vs. Babyface
lol. Also, it's a lot easier to tell if a movie's bad than it is to tell if it's good. But meanwhile it's "okay" to assume a movie is good without seeing it, but we're "bigots" if we assume one is bad. People, hunh.
@@micahp.4356 Thats not accurate... We don't bash on the show as a hobby. Please don't call us Incells, so let me clarify my position because i deffinitely don't identify with act you described, but maybe its just poorly worded: We, I mean most of those I know and myself, are just very offended by how Amazon and their publicity is treating us like scum, because we pointed out they are deceitful liers who made a show that's booring, I don't hate people who enjoyed it... I don't hate the show. I hate the narcisitic marketing, and i didn't exactly find any reson to watch a bad fan fiction pressented as a fraud Tolkien master piece. But that doesnt mean I have come to join in on pissing all over the show. There is a difference between respectfully disliking a show, and standing up for ourselves when we get thrown crap and defamations in our faces. I am sure many wonderfull people worked on the show, but I am pissed at how Amazon and maketing presents their compromised work as Golden Globe Emmy master pieces, that is 100% Tolkien ... when its A not to my taste, B not actually that great quality and doesn't really work, and C about 5% Tolkien. But what really ticks me and many others off is how we are being called Ra**sts, Se**sts, Misogysits, Incels, because we pointed out A, B and C, and rated it 0/10. I don't condone the actual incels who send hate mail to the actors and creators of the show who surely just tried their best. But the Amazon Executives and the Marketing Woke Warriors that came afterwards who is allergic to vald negative feedback, and their reaction to their allergies, were being incels and ra**sts etc. and borderline telling me humans cannot feel empathy if they look differently etc. is the most Göring-eske crap i have heard since the last time my grandmother and grandfarther (my he rest in peace) told me stories about their siblings and them selves during N*zi-occupation. And that is saying something! Just to be clear. The show is pretty bad, but No-one came together to find pitchforks to hate something, if I need my frustrations out, Igo for run or hit a pillow or something. I don't take to the internet to find a community where I can hate on something like a hord of incells. But I will stand up for myself, when I find myself on the recieveing end of defamation. I have style, and decency don't tell me I do not, and that is true for a lot of Tolkien Legendarium Fans, hence why you don't see memes about the Rings of Power series on the Middle Earth Fans Facebook group either... we don't care about that show... (Meme is meant in the sense that they persist, when the series came out last years comedic images were made, but that doesn't make them memes in the definition i use the word in).
@@pederslothzuricho7685 I feel you, but well, some people react differently by being treated like scum, if someone treat you like that and you just walk away, that's good for you... But you can't incite that is wrong that a bunch of people being treated unfairly like scum will be pissed off and talk back... I mean, when you offend one person it might be the case, but try to offend a big group of people and the outcome is completly different and variable. It's obvious we can't condone with hate speech tru' cast e-mail, if that ever happen, because it could really just be a distortion of what really happened or just a total fabrication to play the victim after treating people like scum (And when it comes to Woke Warriors we can't be sure), because we've seen actors and creators ALSO treating fans like scumbags tru' the marketing campaing, so it wasn't just the executives, or they got to a level that "either you agree with us, or you lose you're role" kind of vibe... Well, hope you understand, I'm not antagonizing you or anything, I just didn't liked at all being called such things, I didn't made any hate speech directed to any person, but from their point of view, we did, and that's why they call us that, because like you said, they're allergic to negative feedback, even when it's constructive, because fans actually wanted the show to be good (at least before being disrespected)... And they're so used to being well received by public with those different views, that the only argument they had was to offend Tolkien fans when we simply said "We are not gonna take it because of this and that".
@@pederslothzuricho7685 I love the lore and the stories. Hell The Hobbit was the book that got me into reading. It was the very first book I read on my own, and my main motivation for learning how to read all those big words. It was also the reason why I continued to devour books when I managed it on my own, why my reading comprehension level was always so surprisingly high for my teachers. Consider it a motivation for me to have learned how to read basically. So I am equally offended by the garbage that came out from Amazon and their marketing, as well as the backlash and attempts at gaslighting when they feel offended we don't like their drivel. Tolkien is a cherished part of my path toward books and learning to read, so it has a very important place in my heart. So all of this is disgusting to me. Of course that also doesn't mean I don't enjoy the memes. Because to be honest, while some of them are just stupid, there ARE some that actually are funny, and as a person who enjoys wit, the more clever ones do at the very least get a chuckle out of me. So I don't discount ALL memes and jibes toward the series or amazon executives and marketers.
Saying that Gimli was only a comic relief is just a lie. He was emotional character. One of the best in the trilogy. His wit, humor, grief, anger, cockiness. Everything was spot on and perfectly placed.
Well, in the Two Towers, he is played for laughs at times, from the entire sprinting thing, to dwarf tossing... Basically, once the halflings weren't there to fill the role, Gimli was used and lessened for it, as it was more mocking of him and dwarves. Jackson's LotR trilogy is great, but it does have some flaws, and how it treats Gimli is a lesser one of them. He's also never really given a chance to shine, probably because it is harder to show off with awesome axe sequences on a guy with stumpy legs compared to Legolas's bow stuff. But yeah, he isn't only comic relief. Still, I prefer his portrayal in the books.
Remember how one of the most incredible acts of selfless bravery and heroism in Two Towers is when Gimli, seeing Aragon still dazed after the breach of Helm's Deep, _takes a running leap off of a thirty foot high wall, and starts single-handedly fighting the entire breaching force?_
@@Axterix13 Was it in the extended? But when Galadriel gave Gimli 3 strands of her hair was massive. Her uncle Feanor asked her for the same but she refused because she saw his flaws. Supposed to have motivated him to make the 3 Silmarils capturing the light of the 2 trees (Galadriel's hair was supposed to have done the same). Same as you, didn't like the comedy stuff with Gimli. It did lessen him
how dare they attack peter jackson, he made the film series that those short sighted rich idiots in hollywood said for DECADES was impossible to make!... peter jackson made damn near cinimatic perfection, yes nothings perfect nothing can be perfect, everything is flawed in some way and falls short of perfection, but he got as close as any human creator can get.
Yeah, I actually felt offended, what Peter Jackson had which they clearly totally lacked was passion and love for the project, he was a real fan who had read the books many times which they where not (I doubt they have even read the books). Sure hard to make something like this perfect but I think he came as close as you can to perfection.
perfection is a concept, like infinite, its not a tangible thing its not avhievable by definition... everyhting that exists has some kind of flaws, even if unpercived, its hardly a failing of the films to fall short of something imposible. m8 no diagreement here that they are master pieces, and id say timeless, they will be as amazing ten years from now as they were the day they were made... and 200 years later.... its one of the traits of great art that facinates me the most, how the best art survives the death of the artist and endures throughout time, effecting generations of people centures after its creator has died. i really love that.@@Hero-94
@@teijaflink2226 I think the 'black' elf actor admitted he did not read the books. I'm sure many other actors, if not all of them, did not read the books and don't even know who JRR Tolkien is.
The "elf variety" point is such bull Elrond: Wise but brooding and fearful Arwen: Hopeful, Graceful, and Fierce when she needs to be Galadriel: Etherial, Otherworldly and Generous as she is wise Legolas: Sarcastic, Spirited, and Intelligent Celebor: Strong, Noble, and wise. Each and every elf in the PJ trilogy was a beutifully done individual exemplifying Great virtues, and shadowing the lingering vices of the elves. They were never "perfect"
You forgot one of my favs, Haldir, tough from the outside but he had such a kind soul and he was an Elf of honour. Obviously a bit different from the book, but I loved how PJ made him shine in the cinematic version, despite the short appearance he has in both films.
Look at any fantasy art that has elves in it- they’re all glowing with the light of the Eldar and they have long hair! How hard is it to get elf design so wrong in rings of power? they tried really hard at that
@@JayPadrig Counterexample: Shadowrun. It's a Cyberpunk Fantasy mix though so not entirely surprising. Also some Urban Fantasy settings I guess. But for anything more traditional I agree.
@@guillermoelninoeither you like rings of power and therefore have no taste or your an lotr book fanatic who doesnt like the pj movies which is fine by me. to each his own.... except for rings of power
@@antonpayne919 i guess there was room there for misinterpretstion. I was attempting to make the claim that the ring of power clowns didnt e en watch the lord of the rings movies.
One of my favorite scenes from the Jackson trilogy, is when Frodo is laying on the ground defeated, facing one of his darkest moments alone, then Galadriel appears to him, and lifts him back to his feet. Men will lift you from your darkness with boldness and strength, women will lift you from darkness with love and grace. Was such a great scene!
As a woman person myself, I miss seeing natural feminine traits in strong characters. There's a good reason why we're different to men. It's like all the hollywood execs took a look at Eowyn and were like, "oh! Her 'I am no man' scene was so cool, let's make all women EXACTLY like that (but worse) from now on!"
@@jaceyking47 Turning men into women and women into men has for decades been the aim of new wave feminism and those seeking to muddle and trip up and ultimately destroy society. And now we've entered the stage of actual, literal dismemberment and mutulation of body parts to switch sides. Pure evil.
@jaceyking47 while missing everything else that made Eowyn such a wonderful character. When she and Merry are waiting for the battle to begin and you can see how terrified they both are and she says "Courage, Merry, courage for our friends" that gets me teary every time. That is true courage and strength. She's my favorite of the ladies.
When Théoden looks at Gimli and says "The horn of Helm Hammerhand shall sound in the deep one last time." And Gimli says, "YESSS" climbs to the top, in a humans fortress that could very well be his last breath to blow the horn that they all will not waiver, That isn't comic relief. The fact that Théoden looks to Gimli for this sacred honor speaks a lot of the tone of the movie. He puts his hand on The King Of Gondor's shoulder to draw swords through all the turmoil they've endured, in this moment of desperation and overwhelming authority, and when the Orcs heard the horn they trembled and couldn't fight, frozen in fear they were felled one by one. Their station can't be besmirched by these cons.
The big issue with these people is that they don't realize people (and characters) are more than just one singular trait A person who is prone to comment on comedic moments can still be somber and serious when the situation requires
@@joesmutz9287 The "Dwarves are just comic relief" is merely a talking point repeated without thought by Rings of Power fans. Its one of many that seems to have only originated in the last two years, and I suspect was created by Amazon to discredit the opposition.
@@englishlady9797 I could understand the argument if we were talking about the Hobbit trilogy where there was indeed quite a bit (too much) dwarven comic relief. In the LotR trilogy? Nope.
@@englishlady9797 It's not new. I personally had that complaint 20 years ago and still have it. I would have preferred a more serious Gimli myself. But this isn't a flaw in the movie, just a disagreement on an adaptation choice. I also would have preferred Glorfindel to show up in Fellowship, but Fellowship is still #1 or #2 on my list of greatest movies ever. (Depending on my mood sometimes Alien beats it out.) But you're absolutely write that using it as an attack against the trilogy as a whole is brand new. As a criticism of the film, this about as meaningful as complaining about the stormtrooper bonking his head in Star Wars. Considering a montage of all the characters in Rings of Power bonking their heads would be an improvement on the show, the comic relief attack is entirely disingenuous.
LotR fans have set the gold standard on how to defend a beloved property. It was like watching the charge of the Rohirrim online as they responded to the show.
Isuldur is not portrayed as a villain. He kills Sauron. And the scene of him refusing to give up the ring serves a vital purpose. 1. It quickly and concisely conveys the corrupting power of the ring. 2. It shows man's increased susceptibility to the ring. 3. It sets up Elrond's loss of trust in man. 4. It sets up the tension in the final moments of the film. Will Frodo do it? Sam yelling at Frodo and Frodo hesitating calls back to that scene of Isuldur. All in a super short scene.
Bonus: that scene was told from Elrond's point of view so he could simply be biased to Isildur being bad and evil and is remembering it differently than what actually happened.
Yeah and really they didnt change him... he did decide to keep the ring. And then he did fail to set any guards when they camped in the galadden feilds... but movie only fans do get a bit of a skew vision of him which is sad because he was a pretty a legendary man.. and not evil in the slightest.
@@frankydawgk3640 To be fair, the book!Isildur was wary about the ring in a different way from his movie depiction. Like when waylaid by the Orcs, he refused to put it on and flee until most were dead and his eldest, Elendur, begged him to do it, and mostly in order to prevent the Ring from being captured by the Orcs. He didn't really use it to protect himself but to keep Sauron from reclaiming it. This is touched on in the Unfinished Tales among other places.
The way Isildur is depicted in The Lord of the Rings is necessary. He's not a main character. He has virtually no dialogue. His narrative purpose is to illustrate the danger the Ring poses and that Men are susceptible to it. Jackson couldn't have written him any better without padding out the introduction in a way that would have hurt the overall film.
exactly! It was good movie storytelling. Isildur's fall to the Ring's power was echoed in Boromir's during the Quest. It explained why Frodo needed to leave the Fellowship. It also explained why after all he had been through that even Frodo at the last moment couldn't resist the Ring.
My "favorite" part of the RoP debacle is that they apparently didn't know that death for Elves isn't forever. Even if Celeborn was dead Galadriel would know that he was just waiting out his respawn timer in Mandos. There's literally no scenario where she wouldn't be cheating if she took a lover.
Yep. Finwe taking a second wife was a huge deal in elven society for this exact reason and why we have characters like Felagund who lost their significant other and never looked for abother partner. Not to mention galadriel and celeborn were supposed to be extremely close
@@frking100 Also she thinks she's going to be seperated from Finrod and his memory forever by *going back* to Valinor. Gurl what? He was literally in Valinor. She should have been happy at the prospect of being reunited with him.
@@englishlady9797 The funniest thing is that Finrod was such a gigachad that he was reincarnated almost immediately upon entering the hall of mandos and reunited with his wife so her entire speech was dumb.
I can't move on with the fact that of all characters that ROP chose to ship Guyladriel with is freaking Sauron. Lol. 🤮 It's such a fanfiction thing to see. Also, the obvious contrast between Guyladriel's response to Finrod's death (avenge him) with Guyladriel's afterthought of Celeborn (her freaking HUSBAND). Who's writing this? It's as if she didn't marry Celeborn because of love or something.
The southlanders you guys were talking about were the Haradrim, or the Southrons. In the movie they were the people in the black robes riding the Mumakil's, which were the giant elephants. Tolkien didn't write a whole lot about them, but there was a cool thing where the Blue Wizards made contact with them and managed to convince many of them to turn against Sauron. They were also oppressed by the corsairs of Umbar, which was an old Numenorean settlement that broke off way after the War of the Last Alliance.
Note that Isulder's failure at the beggining of the film is totally mirrored by Frodo's failure at the end - the whole LOTR history is about repeating cycles.
Except in Frodo's case he had the help of a companion and sheer blind luck to help him a reflection that sometimes even the hero will fail but as long as he has companions that are their to help them they can still accomplish their goals. Something Tolkien personally experienced when he fought in WW1.
@@Bird-Birdy-Love Didn't Tolkien mention at one point that the true hero of LotR was Samwise? I could have sworn I read that somewhere. It would make sense. Throughout the journey Samwise is the one constant that keeps Frodo from completely dropping off the deep end. Frodo would have failed long before they even made it to Mt. Doom if he hadn't had Sam with him.
@@wastelandsniper789Yeah he did and that is the point, while Frodo was written to be the hero, the fact is the Samwise is the real hero,the unsung hero, a statement to how many people support the main hero and yet they never get credit cause they are not the centre of the focus.
@@wastelandsniper789 In the books Frodo does much more than he does in the movie. Its very mutual in terms of supporting one another. A good way to put it is that while Frodo is Everyones hero, Sam is Frodo's hero. Everyone may not appriciate Samwise's contrebution, but Frodo does. There is also the element of status and Lordship. Sam views Frodo as his lord, master, and leader, he sees his actions as extensions of Frodo's quest. Frodo acknowledges this by how he shows appriciation and support to Sam through the story. It should be noted that Sam held the ring for a while, and in his own estimation, he couldnt handle it. Meanwhile Frodo held it for an exceptionally long time when it was at the height of its power.Thats no small feat of Heroism itself.
Yes, Tolkien said Sam was the real hero, which I think mostly had to do with Sam being working class and therefore more readers would relate to him. I think too much is made of that statement. Samwise is a fricking legend. But he never leaves the Shire if not for Frodo. It was Frodo that decided to go to Mordor alone to save his friends. And it was Frodo that brought Gollum with them. Sam would have killed or chased Gollum off. So, Frodo doesn't get to Mt. Doom without Sam, but it would have all failed at the end anyway if not for Frodo bringing Gollum along.
Isildur was corrupted by the ring in mount doom where it is at its strongest (in terms of its ability to corrupt). So was Frodo, a hobbit. Hobbits are the most resistant standard race to the rings corrupting effects. I never saw this as Isildur being weak. Aragorn would have failed the same test.
So should any one else. It was nearly impossible to destroy, it was an act of accident that caused the destruction (with a little help from God) and No one had the Will power to overcome that aspect
Never was corrupted in the books. At all. The PJ movies are masterpieces but they do Isildur some injustice. In the books, he spends his time being a fair ruler who practically gave power away to the people instead of being power hungry. He comes to realize that he is not powerful enough to truly bend the ring to his will. That it will eventually overcome him. Isildur resolves to give the ring to Elrond but is killed on the way to Rivendel. It's a tragic story of a man that tries to right his wrong but ultimately fails. In the books isildur literally repented and was about to bring the ring to Rivendell and apologize as he recognized it was beyond him even for a great numenorean connected to the faithful line of the mighty Elendil I preface the prologue & war, other depictions I LOVE, captured the themes WELL, the vibe of the whole trilogy! The significance of the duel between Elendil & Sauron was Nerffed; (He wasn’t some random old bloke in armour getting smacked around) This man was MIGHTY and gleaming with power which you’ll find out in the great videos you’ll soon react to with joy! * He and Gil-Galad; last true Elven King battled Sauron and slayed Sauron’s physical body and both died in the process. GilGalad was held high by the face for all free peoples to see as he then incinerated his bodily form to a crisp of ash! Isildur was part of the fight too but not as prominently and he just comes up to the body to cut the ring finger off and…. So one example is how easily Sauron is killed in the intro. * He's set up as this super powered badass, but all you have to do is cut off his finger? That's not how it went down in the book, where the greatest man-king and the greatest elven-king had to double-team Sauron to strike down his body, but were killed in the effort (Isildur then cuts the ring from the corpse). Especially for elves the title of king has many meanings & by the Third Age there isn’t a population large enough to even attempt to such a thing as creating a unified kingdom which would put a target on their backs, let alone many of them are beyond all of that anyway as it’s seen as doing more harm than anything good. * They also seen what happened when the elves fell upon the swords of their own hubris and passion no matter if it was for the right reasons some of the time. That it always ended up in some sort of tragedy which sometimes even damaged the earth itself. They had long known about what’s called the Long Defeat as ever since Morgoth’s marring of the land itself; pouring his remnants into it that caused the “magic” to slowly drain away from the land itself which is sad because for ages several clans of elves were born there. even the greatest ancestors were “born” in middle earth awakening to the stars ! Many of who are left have accepted the next phase of their life which is to become councillors, healers and loremasters to those within the heart to listen and the desire to learn. But above all the guardians and custodians of several things and the world itself for as long as they can remain!❤ The elves “exist” as long as the world does. And Tolkien made it obvious in many ways that it’s our world as he restored Anglo Saxon culture/Mythologies and folklore, and their languages too alongside Irish, Welsh and Finnish mythologies too. Especially Norwegian(of which I am) This is what Amazon didn’t deliver (AKA the actual story which inspired everything we love into existence with games and movies and books and so forth. Skyrim, elder scrolls, oblivion, Diablo, and world of Warcraft and D&D. And Game Of Thrones was hugely inspired by Tolkien… yet as the godfather of everything and the heart of what caused many peoples lives to be saved cannot get the justice it deserves for adaptations? People literally conquered cancer because of the books and the trilogy, the books were read to their children for years. All 25 of them. The man was a hugely respected scholar and professor in the world. Translated ancient artifacts and hieroglyphs and petroglyphs and so forth for the government etc. even rejected being recruited into the CIA several times and he wrote everyone by letter. The fans especially. He’d write back to everyone back and forth and many have shared the stories regarding these conversations which were past down throughout the family lines of the people who had a personal relationship with Tolkien which was hundreds of people when he was alive. Thousands.
40:40 "...and out of Far Harad black men like half-trolls with white eyes and red tongues" Page 1054, Chapter five, Return of the King. Presumably these men are described as such because they were the biggest and meanest looking men the Haradrim had forced from Far-Harad to help them fight Gondor. We can presume these men are meant to be sub-saharan in appearance because it is also mentioned that beyond the deserts of Harad lies a jungle, and that the Mumakil come from those far lands. Essentially Africa is being described, and the Gondorians are just so happening to meet the most monstrous looking men from that land, because they are warriors in service to the dark tower. It'd be kind of like if we had a book from the Haradrim's perspective that called the Rohirrim "great snow men, like wolves atop horses, with the scales of terrible cold drakes about them." or something like that.
This is what Tom Shippey has said of the passage: The mention in ‘The Battle of the Pelennor Fields’ of ‘black men like half-trolls’ certainly sounds racist. I think I would say here that Tolkien at this point is trying to write like a medieval chronicler, and when medieval Europeans first encountered sub-Saharan Africans, they were genuinely confused about them, and rather frightened. As Tolkien pointed out in his early scholarly works, the ancient English seemed to have a belief in fire-demons, who naturally enough had skin like soot - their word for them, ‘harwan’, is related to Latin ‘carbo’, ‘soot,’ or carbon. An Anglo-Saxon meeting an African for the first time might then really wonder (for a moment, from a distance) whether this was a demon from his own mythology. This doesn’t mean that Tolkien shared the mythology, or the mistake. Tom Shippey, in a 2001 Q&A
@@Josie-Lass That is more in the line of what they should have produced. A new viewpoint from the south or far-east where a couple of Gandalf's ilk were supposed to have traveled and not returned from. They could have had fun going off the deep-end and not gotten much hate because it was hardly written about anywhere. Samurai hobbits or dwarf monks!
@@TCK-9 I agree 100% with you . Even the two blue wizards could have been a different ethnicity ( personally, I imagine them as Morgan Freeman and Ben Kingsley), since their missions were on the South and east. The possibilities, stories and adventures would have been endless. But that requires talent for writing, imagination and knowing the lore. But we both know, the showrunmers and writers of this monstrosity lack all three requirements.
The funniest thing about:"he was the only dwarf in his time" is that in the movies he asks why arent they calling for help from the kingdom under the blue mountain, and legolas *OUTRIGHT STATES* :"they are fighting their own war, they cannot come" and btw, that battle was HUGE like 80k vs 100k and humans and dwarves wère badasses in that fight, especially the two kings, godi wish i could watch that battle
Ismael Cruz Cordova simultaneously saying that he used to play elf as a kid, and that people need to be "seen", is so obviously contradictory, Amazon and their shills could only be appealing to the most smooth brain of viewers. And now that I double check the article, Cordova even calls elves "aryan". To think, Tolkien clapped back against actual aryan sympathizers decades ago, to have his work percieved in such an erroneous way.
i can't rember the actual qoute, but a german pulisher asked Tolkien if he had Jewish ancestry, he replied something along the lines of. I'm don't but i wish i did.
It's typical of activists (they are not actors but activists :)) they pander and that pandering is annoying as hell.....if they wanted to have diversity in Tolkien's world....all they needed to do was FOLLOW THE DAMN LORE...there are whole peoples, dark skinned Men, Haradrim in Middle-earth!!!! All they needed to do was have a subplot involving Haradrim and Numenorean colonialism...since Numenor settled the shores of Harad, one of their colonies in Second Age, Umbar is even plot relevant for important event happens, Ar-Pharazon lands with his army to subdue Sauron at Umbar! Heck Ismael Cruz Cordova could have played a young Haradrim warrior, Cynthia Addai his girlfriend or maybe Haradrim princess, Lenny Henry an old father figure tribal chief or king..and Sophia Nomvete....some village witch (she is mean so playing a witch would come naturally to her ;)) to show how the Enemy can use temptations of power through offering evil knowledge of black arts of sorcery and necromancy to further corrupt people to serve him!!! Hell it would be so in line with the Second Age lore...it would allow for depicting the moral complexity and true nuance of Tolkien's world! But nope....they just wanted black elves, and other race swaps for diversity quotas!!!! There ARE NO BLACK ELVES...if Ismael wanted to play one....he should go star in some Dungeons and Dragon...play a Drow or something......ughhhhhhh it's frustrating....but it only shows how ideaologically stuck up these people are! They had in lore actual members of a different culture, actual dark skinned peoples....hell there are description of Tolkien of Haradrim warriors which make them unique and would even give clues how to depict them visually! ""'More Men going to Mordor,' he [Gollum] said in a low voice. 'Dark faces. We have not seen Men like these before... They are fierce. They have black eyes, and long black hair, and gold rings in their ears... lots of beautiful gold. And some have red paint on their cheeks, and red cloaks and their flags are red, and the tips of their spears; and they have round shields, yellow and black with big spikes." ... "For a moment he caught a glimpse of swarthy men in red running down the slope some way off with green-clad warriors leaping after them... a man fell, crashing through the slender trees, nearly on top of them. He came to rest in the fern a few feet away, face downward, green arrow-feathers sticking from his neck below a golden collar. His scarlet robes were tattered, his corslet of overlapping brazen plates was rent and hewn, his black plaits of hair braided with gold were drenched with blood. His brown hand still clutched the hilt of a broken sword." This would have been amazing design! A character could look unique! But nope they had Ismael playing an elf....with the laziest and ugliest design, the buzz haircut and most ridiculous bland outfit....completely unimaginative!!!! Guy doesn't looke like an elf in the slightest!!!! Simply put the Dwarves and Elves as very concepts ARE EUROPEAN....so naturally they would be imagined as having the European features...and they live in the north-western region correspondign to Europe!!! It;'s natural just like a Japanese mythical creature like say snow demon Yuki-onna who is usually in humanoid form.....surprise surprise....a pale Japanese woman! Seriously the stuff these people say sometimes....so now Cordova says elves are Aryan hahha, well factually the 'blond blue eyed' features are only of portion of elves, one clan of golden haired Elves, Vanyar, and some minorities in other clans or through the Vanyar descent...Galadriel has golden hair due to Vanyar ancestor, but usually the Noldor are usually the dark haired, grey eyed....they do have white skin though....like Europeans, Teleri some of them are said to have blue eyes, but they often are also dark haired, brown haired etc.
Also, while he claimed to play an elf as a kid, it was pretty clear at last year's San Diego comic con that he doesn't know much about Tolkien's work, or have much interest. When Steve Colbert was interviewing the cast, he asked ICC what kind of Silvan elf his character was, and he didn't know. One would think he'd have looked into things on his character's race. Then Colbert asked if the image on his breastplate was an Ent, and ICC said he'd asked 3 costume designers what it was and they each gave him a different answer, and that Colbert should ask the showrunners. That's pretty telling, in showing that people making the show didn't really know what they were doing, possibly not getting clear direction from the showrunners; and also that ICC didn't care enough about it to ask the showrunners himself.
@@marychocolatefairy it only shows how litle the team behind it cares about source material, they are doing some half assed attempts at making their own thing....but even those are not that well thought through!
47:34 They aren’t even looking at a blank page and asking, “what would Tolkien have written here?” They are looking at a blank page and saying, “we can insert our agenda here.” They then look at the filled pages of Tolkien’s work and scribble out the parts inconvenient to that agenda.
How good is LOTR? Even the commentary by both cast and crew is worth watching. You have a sense of the love and passion that went into the trilogy. Is it perfect? No, but few things are. But if i could rewatch anything for the first time again, it would be PJ's work. And the music? Just exquisite. I internally cringe anytime someone wants to make an adaptation of anything i like. So thanks for making 2023 a year of: TIHI.
My first time watching The Fellowship was on my 14" TV in my room on a blockbuster rented VHS. But I might as well have been in a top range cinema in ultra HD. It didn't matter, it was amazing and I still remember my first watch so vividly. Love at first sight I guess haha.
My siblings and I used to alternate between LOTR and Harry Potter and the Philosopher’s Stone so much that we memorized all the lines from both movies. We watched it enough that my younger brother recreated the first LOTR movie, complete with sound effects and stunt work (the sword spinning thing cool guys do), as a one man show.
Rings of Bezos lost me when i found out they were sending the Istari in the wrong age and erasing Cirdan... Seriously, how do you tell the story of the Three without the guy who gives Narya to Gandalf... At last Jackson included Cirdan at the very end... (even if he did erase my favorite chapter, The Scouring)
When people see Gimli as a comic relief, they usually point to the "Toss me!"-Scene in the movies. And in a way this scene is funny. But it is much more than that. 1. It shows that Gimli prioritizes helping in the fight and doing his duty over his pride. 2. It shows how much he trusts Aragorn to keep this between them so that he is not the butt of jokes later. He makes himself vulnerable before his friend to get the job done. 3. Aragorn hadn't considered that as an option, he seems genuinely surpised about the suggested solution. He takes Gimli serious and he wouldn't suggest anything that hurts Gimlis pride. He is also very serious about keeping this a secret between them, another sign of respect. This is one of the things that shows like Rings of Power don't understand: That scenes like that can have multiple layers and there can be a funny aspect while showing serious things about the relationship of the characters at the same time. The fact alone that I can go that deep into that scene shows how good the writing and acting in Jacksons movies is, it dosen't stop at surface level jokes.
I mean, Gimli isn't 'only' comic relief in the Jackson films, but tbh it's hard to argue that that isn't one of his roles. There's 'Toss Me' at Helm's Deep, the refusal to be tossed in Moria (which technically nearly gets him killed, and Legolas has to save him by grabbing his beard), passing out in a drinking contest with Legolas in Edoras, having to be dragged away from the breach in the Deeping Wall like a drunkard at last orders, having multiple wargs and orcs land on him in a pile during the Warg Rider fight, and not being able to see over the wall at Helm's Deep (even though that's actually the point of a wall like that), all of which do have Gimli as the butt of the joke. However, he also gets a bunch of funny scenes that aren't at his expense, like his reaction to Legolas killing the Mumakil, his response to the plan to march on the Black Gate, and the kill tally at the end of Helm's Deep (which isn't played for laughs at all in the book iirc). So yes, he's definitely a character with a comedic role, and he's the butt of the joke more often than any of the main cast (except maybe Merry and Pippin). Certainly more so than Aragorn/Legolas/Gandalf and in a way that he isn't in the books. So if someone would have preferred a more serious, true to the book, interpretation of Gimli then that's a viewpoint that could be legitimately held and defended imo (although I somewhat doubt RoP defenders are acting in that sort of good faith...).
The funniest thing in this scene for me was always that Gimli by virtue of his dense body and massive equipment would have been the heaviest character between the three. So if anything Gimli could have thrown Aragorn.
there's an amazing video I found that shows her character traits and compares them to other evil characters like Ted Bundy and the villain from Schindler's List, even showing one of her scenes side by side with one of his scenes. It's practically a shot for shot remake.
@ajturner1894 that makes sense. I'm not sure I've ever watched theatrical two towers except in theaters. I tried watching the theatrical Fellowship on Netflix 5 or 6 years ago and it just felt wrong to me. The movies ARE the extended editions.
Also leads to one of the nicer Legolas and Gimli moments in the book, where Treebeard gets apprehensive upon seeing Gimli with an axe but Legolas assures him that the axe is for slaying orcs, referencing the contest for how much he does it.
I never got 'bad guy Isildur' vibe from movies. If anything: it looked like cautionary warning of "Look, even that heroic, brave and saintly king did bend under the charm of this ring: The RoP Isildur? They establish him: -A lair -A coward -An incompetent -A weakling -Bad friend to have Heck, if he ends up a legendary King he is meant to be I would be 1st to shout nepotism and fraudster ! He is in no way sympathetic... it is hard to even find redeeming aspects to him and it is frankly a most likely something 'by design'.
It's been a while but I vaguely remember his keeping the ring was more interesting. Not just "oh I got a level doubling ring". And not sure he wore it before his death
@@darkhighwayman1757 Oh, the story of that was much longer and much more interesting and if I recall he did decide to destroy it but on the way to discuss it was killed with whole his entourage. If we talk about the books. In terms of movie: there was a certain 'mystique' and lack of detail to whole issue. As well as very early suggestion of Ring not only having will of it's own but having immensely potent will.
@@darkhighwayman1757He did wear it at the very end of his life, though it abandoned him. He acknowledged that he feared the ring and knew he could not control it.
The people who made/enjoy Rings of Power have a very distorted, even wicked worldview. That’s why they can say things like “Elrond is exhibits more goodness in ROP.” They see manipulation and dishonesty to serve their ends as a virtue, while real care and concern for his daughter comes off to them as manipulative and oppressive.
Just Some Guy did a great video on the cultural dynamics of Middle Earth and how there was a way to have "diversity" while still being true to the source material. The creators weren't fans of Tolkien, they were fans of "The Message"
Yeah, from interviews I've seen of them, I've gotten the impression that at least one, if not both, of them just knew the movies at best and not the books at all.
And what annoys me is it doesn’t need to be diverse, it’s meant to be Englands fairy tales that were lost. It should look like they’re all British or Druid’s or whatnot, but not other races.
Probably not a good example. Just some guy is a massive Npc for the message. He’s a bonafide sjw Californian and you can tell just by listening to opinions for 3 minutes.
I would make the defense that Isildur in the Jackson trilogy can be seen as more of a tragic character than a villain by the end of the trilogy. It could be said that what happened to Frodo is exactly what happened to Isildur.
So whoever wrote this ridiculous piece had neither read the books nor seen the Jackson trilogy. I don’t understand that they are not afraid to embarrass themselves like this, when I worked as a journalist, I took pride in everything I did, and when I made mistakes, it haunted me for years. By the way, I highly recommend the books, they’re the best I’ve ever read, except for the Narnia books 😊 personal opinion
They do not understand how much they would profit by releasing a statement like “ we deeply apologize for the quality of ROP , and promise to improve for the next season
They did say that, but the damage is already done. The show was so terrible it's literally not salvagable with better writing or lore accurate retcon-ing.
They did say that basically. But why should we believe them? And even if we did, it's too late. The base set up in season 1 is fundamentally rotten. You can't build a good season 2 on that.
ROP was so bad there is no way to save it. You would have to retcon the whole season as being a dream of some character. Trying to improve the series is like trying to make a diamond out of a hunk of shit.
My favourite part of Rings of Power was when Galadriel suddenly decides to jump off the boat in the middle of the ocean and swim back. Had a good laugh. Also when she punches through the ice with her fist like its nothing.
I call that phenomenon "campaigning". Where a person campaigns for every little thing in their life; they are a "fan" of everything. "Have you tried "thing"?" " "Thing" is so amazing, everyone should like "thing" like I like "thing".
Most of Gimli's humor in the Peter Jackson movies was either through blunt gallows humor, or his tendency to not hold back anything in combat, leading to moments of comical badassery. Both of those are well documented dwarven traits, and when you consider who the dwarves are based on, being the Norse, it's hardly surprising
And trying to distract the very young very inexperienced hobbits with no training from the dangers and terrors they would or had experienced so far from a experienced veteran or squad leader type of way - while at the same time looking up to aragorn and legolas for their broader experience (even though lego looked similar in age, he was much much older than the rest.)
Apart from the halls of the dead part. Blowing ghost hands away was cringe as fook in a part that was horrifying in the books. That part scarred me as a child when my mum read it to me.
29:10 There's more proof that they should have long hair than against. I think it was one of the LotR books or maybe Silmarillion where it was mentioned that the bowstrings they used were made of elven hair. That said, it doesn't mean all elves did that but I think it's more likely than not.
Remember also, they passed over the most epic tales in the silmarillion (Finrod's song battle with Sauron being the least of these, which should tell you something about the rest). The Children of Hurin, the Fall of Gondolin and Tuor's journey there, the bloody history of the Silmarils, the Rise and Fall of Numenor, and BEREN AND LUTHIEN! IF THEY WANTED A STORY OF A BADASS ELVIN WOMAN THEY SHOULD HAVE TOLD THE STORY OF BEREN AND LUTHIEN! But I'm glad they didn't because they would probably have ruined all of these stories. ... sorry. It still frustrates me when I think about it.
@@jamesdaniels8007 they didn't even go with that information as it states very clearly that Galadriel was married and had a daughter by the time period that Rings of Power takes place in.
Amazon and their shills will never do Beren and Luthien story because is about a male and a female love story in which the female is ready to risk EVERYTHING for her loved man, to the point to even REVIVE him!!! Wokeism will never tell a story when an heterosexual couple fight to be together!!! It is against "the message"...
you forgot the fact Galadriel forgot she was married the whole show while she is helicopter hovering sauron and gandalf wasn't even in Middle earth at the time of rings of Prime AND THERE WERE NO MFING HARFOOTS I will just nut shell it as the RINGS OF PRIME= Trash LOTR= Badass and pretty lore accurate
And Galadriel at that point had a 3000 year old daughter with her husband. Galadriel and Celeborn were a power couple that were very loyal to each other.
Peter Jackson's films: Respected the original source material and made reasonable changes for the sake of pacing and keeping things understandable for broad audiences. Rings of Power: Literal fanfiction
If I want Umber elves, I'll make them myself. For my own work, the Aziza fill that role. They even get to be bioluminescent. Seriously, though, Dwarves are strictly comic relief? Gimli certainly had *less* gravity in the Peter Jackson trilogy than Tolkien's work, but it wasn't completely lacking.
yesss YES I knew they could not help themselves, they have to take off their mask and hold their evil monologue! "you like these bigot books?! how dare you, coooonsume our fanfiction instead!!!!"
33:18 In the annex to LotR Galadriel reduces Dol Guldur to ruble single-handedly. Granted, she uses her ring to do it. But the rings only grant power according to the manner of their wielder. She must have been hell on wheels, even before she got that thing. Giving her a sword instead is like inviting a world-class violinist onto a stage and then handing them a kazoo.
The Southlands in the show are Mordor. Mordor is further north than Gondor. They could have used Southrons but that would have required them to actually, you know, go further south than the equivalent of Serbia lol
Yup, or for those accustomed to the Sindarin term: Harad. It should be noted however that Arnor and Gondor weren't established until after the fall of Numenor
I mean Minas Tirith is in middle earth Serbia. Tolkien said it was Belgrade (if the Hobbiton was Oxford) [but with the climate of Ravenna, which has a similar latitude]. Mordor is like Transylvania/Romania
@@Drew_McTygue Gondor hadn't been founded yet but there were still Numenorian cities there, most famously at Umbar which was hundreds of miles south of the supposed "Southlands"
honestly they could have used actors of any ethnicity and it would have been fine, so long as they had the brains to stick to some sort of geographic logic to who was from where. Making the original inhabitants of Mordor any color would not have changed the narrative at all, but making them as ethnically diverse as Los Angeles DOES ruin immersion The color and appearance of people in fantasy is rarely something you can't take liberties with, the problem is the morons who don't understand that you have to actually devote a few braincells to what those choices do to your world building. Most of OUR planet isn't actually as ethnically diverse as a backwater village in a depopulated country in Rings of Power....
This is so weird...I just finished a LotR marathon and all of a sudden Shadiversity/Knights Watch are making LotR videos! Coincidence? I think NOT! Shout out to the Legolas-arrow-stab vid that was just released!
Remember when the actor in ROP who played Sauron said that he wasn't told he was playing Sauron until the final episodes of filming? That's how you know it's better than a beloved film series, when your actors don't even know who they are portraying on screen.
Yeah, and besides that, the showrunners were soooo secretive about everything that they didn't tell anyone who they were auditioning for at first. Galadriel's actress said she didn't even know which show she was auditioning for. But tbf that might be a her thing, since Halbrand's actor seemed super surprised when she said that, lol, like he couldn't understand how that had happened. But anyway, that's certainly not a good way of finding the right actor for roles- no wonder so many people were miscast. This also led to some actors leaving early. One was Will Poulter, who was cast as Elrond - my theory is he bailed after getting to see the script.
There is a great scene in The Hobbit that shows Galadriel's power and importance - when Gandalf speaks to Elrond. Elrond says that he is not the one to answer to - and at that moment Lady Galadriel is shown. She is beautiful and powerful here, it is understandable why Sauron was afraid of her. Then in the scene of rescuing Gandalf they show what she is capable of. She doesn't need a sword, she is strong in other things - knowledge and magic.
I wrote a counter article. "Three things Peter Jackson's Trilogy did better than the Rings of power": 1 The Fellowship of the Ring 2 The Two Towers 3 The Return of the King
Viggo Mortensen getting cast at the last minute and having limited time training with swords when his whole character hinges on him being one of the strongest swordsmen in Middle Earth yet still pulling it off is wild.
One of the stories of Tolkien (in this case the story of him and his son combined) that I really wanted to see a adaptation of is "The Children of Hùrin". Preferably a game. But now that I see how they just slaughter Tolkiens work, I don't want it anymore. But if someone did a faithful adaptation of Tùrins story....I would absolutely love it. The book was so good I read it in 1 day, and at the end I had to cry, it was so sad. Just a excellent story that evokes so many feelings. If you haven't read it yet, I cannot recommend it enough.
Man, if they did it right, and I mean did it RIGHT, a Turin Turambar game would be one of the greatest pieces of media EVER. So we all know it's not going to happen.
As an avid gamer, yes, I can confirm "Knife Ear" is a racial slur often used towards Elves in Dragon Age. My favourite insults have got to be "Nug Humper" and "Bronto Licker", but these ones aren't racial slurs, they are insults typically used by Dragon Age Dwarves. "Rabbit" is another racial slur for Elves too, but this one is considered to be a little softer. We also have "Shem" or "Shemlen", which are racial slurs used towards Humans by the Elves. See, everyone's racist in Dragon Age!
Attacking Peter Jackson's Lord of the Rings is the biggest no win scenario I've ever seen. The sheer audacity of these people to compare their tripe to LotR is astounding.
The writers of Rings of Power didn't only not understand Tolkien or his characters, they didn't understand how 'character' works. Someone I work with who knew nothing of LotR asked me when Galadrial reveals herself as the villain so Halbrand could do the heroic face off against her. Let me repeat that, they screwed up the characterization so badly people unfamiliar with the story think the characters are on opposite sides.
Great to see you collaborating together. I enjoy both your channels and think you both bring interesting perspectives to this conversation. Hope there is a lot more to come.
What a coincidence! While you were talking about this article, I’ve just watched a video named: “Why WOKE HOLLYWOOD Hasn’t Ruined Tolkien’s Legacy | Rings of Power” 😅 from the RUclips channel “Pillar of Garbage”.
The most egregious liberty taken by Jackson, et al., was changing Faramir's character. I think it has been said that they needed some sort tension to increase the impact, but there are many ways that could have been handled without betraying Faramir.
Another point about using maps : you need a certain level of civilisation to make some. And still they started as schematics following the roads, there is a famous roman map of their empire that is very long. For geographically accurate maps, it usually started as naval maps (the Mercator Projection was designed as one). Elves would have accurate maps, Numenoreans too, as they are used to sailing the ocean. But any other culture at this point, at most maps bought from them, and certainly no common orc would. Using a feature on the map to convey a location to orcs makes zero sense.
The thing is making Sauron where he isn't actively seeking to gain power could be fine. He was effectively hiding away remaining low to avoid punishment to the point he was practically rethinking his ways. If it had been around him just making it by in the world where he saw how man could be exploited, how he had a way to gain power and to devise a plot to gain power and take over after Morgoth's fall it could of been really interesting if written well of him falling to darkness rather then having that second chance.
The mystery of the Dwemer from thr Elder Scrolls is a great example. The lack of details makes it so fascinating and open to fan theories and interpretations
These writers have no idea how to write a story. They just come up with "cool" moments and then try to somehow stitch them together. They dont write a coherent story, they just write the equivalent of a bunch of one-line jokes with bad setups.
Remember how they depicted Finrod's death in the show vs. how it was supposed to happen? Remember when Simon Tolkien criticized Jackson's Trilogy saying it was "too perfect". No they just didn't give the Tolkien estate enough money which was a quarter of a billion dollars to sell out your family's legacy.
I can see how someone would perceive Isildur as a villain in the Lord of the Rings movies...assuming they only watched the first five minutes and then stopped. Isildur succumbed to the temptation of the ring just like Boromir did and like Frodo did in the end. Succumbing to the ring is supposed to be expected, resisting its temptations is the astonishing thing!
They pulled the same crap to try & defend the Star Wars sequels too. Nobody I know takes ScreenRant seriously, they're just fishing for hate-clicks with these kinds of articles because they know they've got no credibility left
I am so surprised by the lack of mention I've seen from the fans about The Unfinished Tales of Middle-Earth. It has so much info about the second age, that's what the Rings of Power was ignoring most.
![The History of Morgoth [COMPILATION] | Tolkien Explained](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Ktet64d9O-c/mqdefault.jpg)
Rings of power people: *attempt to speak*
Tolkien fans: "Be silent! Keep your forked tongue behind your teeth. We have not watched Jackson's works and tolkien's books millions of times to trade words with talentless worms"
Marvelous! Elegant!
Rings of power people: i told you to take the fans comments
Absolutely 😂😂😂
Where is the horse and the rider?
Where is the horn that was blowing?
They have passed like rain on the mountains,
like wind in the meadow.
The days have gone down in the West,
behind the hills... into Shadow.
...How did it come to this ?
_
_
_
Note: this is a good adaptation, by Jackson's team, of the original text which is
"Where now the horse and the rider? Where is the horn that was blowing?
Where is the helm and the hauberk, and the bright hair flowing?
Where is the hand on the harpstring, and the red fire glowing?
Where is the spring and the harvest and the tall corn growing?
They have passed like rain on the mountain, like a wind in the meadow;
The days have gone down in the West behind the hills into shadow.
Who shall gather the smoke of the dead wood burning,
Or behold the flowing years from the Sea returning?"
Superb parallel, Shen. Amazon is to Tolkien EXACTLY as Wormtongue is to Rohan Now if we only had a Gandalf.
Wait, wait... Isildur's supposed to be read as a villain? Since when? He was a man who got corrupted by the Middle Earth equivalent of a demon. At the very last minute at that, the man resisted Sauron's influence all the way up until he was literally standing IN Sauron's most powerful place, and THEN he failed. That doesn't make him a villain...
Yeah. Tolkien’s point with Isildur and the ring is that all men, even the best of us, are corruptible. We all struggle with envy, pride, greed, all things the Ring and Sauron preys upon. Isildur is a failed or fallen hero, not really a villain like Sauron and Saruman.
Yea that same logic would make Frodo a villain as well lol
Did you miss the part where he's white and male?
Resisted influence is putting it lightly. The dude went with his father to lead his people alongside the elves and some dwarves to the deciding battle that shut down Sauron's activities for millenia.
The "cast it into the fire" thing was only made for the movie though, wasn't it? I thought in the actual lore there was no intention on anyone's part to destroy the ring at that time.
8 things it does better?
-Insufferable girlboss protag is done better
-Butchering of lore is done better
-Disregarding of the lore is done better
-Contempt for original material and author done better
-Contempt for fans done better
-Nonsense and illogical world building done better
-Creating plotholes done better
-Failing at getting positive reaction and engagement from the audience done better
Very good 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
!Stalin Aproves that!
Great post!!!! very funny.;p
You forgot wasting money and goodwill
Reminds me of what the old wizard tells tobuscus in that wizards adventure game.
“Let’s talk about what you are doing right.”
“You are failing correctly. I’ve never seen anybody fail so well.”
Everyone in the Peter Jackson films was so invested in the lore and their characters that nothing could stop them. Sean climbed up to filming locations in full costume, Orlando broke his rib yet set the standard for the grace of how elves move and fight, Viggo broke his toes and ran all over the mountains for the overhead shots of hunting the orcs, John dislocated his knee and still put everything into Gimli. The behind the scenes of the LOTR trilogy is just as amazing as the films themselves.
Anyone involved in rings of power sounds like they’d quit at the slightest inconvenience.
Also, Christopher Lee was a very devoted Tolkien fan who could name all of the 5 wizards from memory, including the two blue wizards. Look at interviews and see how many, even basic, facts about the lore the rings of Power actors could get right. Most of them had no idea: the only one who seems to have actually known his stuff was the actor who played Elendil (I forget his name).
He definitely messed up a few things. The ents, in particular. Changes were made that many think were unnecessary.
@@ohsweetmystery Oh I agree, but attacking Jackson doesn't make Rings of Power better: its just whataboutery.
@@englishlady9797 rop makes attacking Jaksons work and claiming being better and more accurate is exercise of stupidity.
@@englishlady9797 rop makes attacking Jaksons work and claiming being better and more accurate is exercise of stupidity.
This article feels like the perfect embodiment of, "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and to remove all doubt."
I like the hypothesis that the article is made by AI 🙂
Obligatory reminder that everyone jokingly predicted that the show called Rings of Power would contain the forging of the Rings of Power in a 20 second montage, and they were correct. 😂😂🤣🤣😭😭🤮🤮
Lol! I think I said the same thing but didn't think it would actually happen so I was right and wrong. 🤣 What I didn't predict was how lame Sauron's influence on their forging would be
Stupidity is predictable. Yeah, that was funny AF. So much wasted potential, I mean so many people wish they would’ve had the chance to do some thing like this well
@@RoninDave "he said make one, so we'll make three" ooo that'll get'im!
They needed all the rest of the episodes for the Sauron-Galadriel romance and the "hoomans are racist to poor elves" narrative.
@@RoninDave DiD yOU trY miXinG difFereNt meTAls?? - soyron to the master smith
Peter Jackson not openly stating it but subtlety showing Aragorn taking Boromir's Gondor vambraces after his death is such a small detail that only a book reader would even notice or understand. Peter Jackson put this minor scene in 'The Fellowship of the Ring" because he knew how important it was to Aragorn's character arc. That scene brings me to tears everytime.
Jackson had nothing but love and respect for the work of Tolkien and I thank God every day for giving us a director with that sort of passion.
That might've been Viggo Mortensens idea, not the writers. I think i saw that in a making-of 20 years ago.... Or maybe I'm wrong
@awhellnah__ The Hobbit is the perfect example of studio execs showing up and pretending they know more about an IP and its fandom than they really do.
@@ahoyforsenchou7288 Exactly correct. All the hate and vitriol I have seen leveled at the Hobbit movies can be laid squarely at the feet of Warner Brothers. Not the least egregious was the bait-and-switch they did to Evangeline Lily over the "love triangle" debacle.
Moreover, I understand that PJ originally pitched LOTR to Warner, who wanted the script revised to have two of the hobbits die.
@awhellnah__
The Hobbit is a master piece compared to the shitty Rings of Power.
Truuuue, at least in that case, it had some cool action moments, decently cool (if not always deep) characters, and a story that actually makes sense (even if it doesn't entirely adhere to the book itself).
Kinda makes me think of how the Star Wars prequels are in comparison to the new trilogy. Clearly better written than what came after, even if not everyone enjoys/thinks highly of it.@
The rings of power was forgotten after it was released. I’ve rewatched the original trilogy of lord of the rings so many times I can quote it from memory. While it wasn’t entirely faithful to the books it wasn’t bastardized like the rings of power. Lord of the rings was a work of art
Peter jacksons trilogy stands as a great standard for movie adaptations, being faithful to the source while making the story fit a movie runtime. I rarely see a movie or series as close to the source as the Lord of the rings.
Dude be honest, it was forgotten before it even finished.
@@aidenkelly9641 it was definitely made with love unlike the rings of power. The attention to detail on the lord of the rings was unreal
No sane person will quote "Guyladriel" and have a knot on the throat as I, a woman! Have when I hear the speeches of King Theoden before battle and Aragorn before Mordor. First time I understood on a visceral way why people fight and die for leaders and ideas.
@@karinefonte516 there is a tempest within me..
"Gimlii is reduced to comic relief". Um, Gimlis friendship with Legolas is one of the most profound things that happens in the movies.
2 things can be true at once. Gimlii was, indeed, reduced to a comic relief in the movies (like Ron Wisley was in the Harry Potters movies) but it is also true his friendship with Legolas is very well made. But Gimlii being reduced to a comic relief isn't a defense for Ring of Power or anything close to that.
“How do you know it’s bad if you haven’t seen it?”
“It’s not my phucking job to give you a chance! It’s YOUR job to entice me through the door!” -AZ a.k.a. Heels vs. Babyface
lol. Also, it's a lot easier to tell if a movie's bad than it is to tell if it's good. But meanwhile it's "okay" to assume a movie is good without seeing it, but we're "bigots" if we assume one is bad. People, hunh.
As an American political animal once said, "You have to pass it before you see what's in it..."
Shad: You have not seen what I have seen.
Kramer: I have seen enough.
Shad: You're absolutely right, I wish I could have unseen what I have seen!
Elrond breaking an oath after being raised by Maedhros and Maglor was such a slap to the lore
Well, I'm glad that Tolkien's Legendarium Community came together to treat this show as it is: utter trash.
@@micahp.4356 Thats not accurate... We don't bash on the show as a hobby. Please don't call us Incells, so let me clarify my position because i deffinitely don't identify with act you described, but maybe its just poorly worded:
We, I mean most of those I know and myself, are just very offended by how Amazon and their publicity is treating us like scum, because we pointed out they are deceitful liers who made a show that's booring, I don't hate people who enjoyed it... I don't hate the show. I hate the narcisitic marketing, and i didn't exactly find any reson to watch a bad fan fiction pressented as a fraud Tolkien master piece. But that doesnt mean I have come to join in on pissing all over the show. There is a difference between respectfully disliking a show, and standing up for ourselves when we get thrown crap and defamations in our faces. I am sure many wonderfull people worked on the show, but I am pissed at how Amazon and maketing presents their compromised work as Golden Globe Emmy master pieces, that is 100% Tolkien ... when its A not to my taste, B not actually that great quality and doesn't really work, and C about 5% Tolkien. But what really ticks me and many others off is how we are being called Ra**sts, Se**sts, Misogysits, Incels, because we pointed out A, B and C, and rated it 0/10. I don't condone the actual incels who send hate mail to the actors and creators of the show who surely just tried their best. But the Amazon Executives and the Marketing Woke Warriors that came afterwards who is allergic to vald negative feedback, and their reaction to their allergies, were being incels and ra**sts etc. and borderline telling me humans cannot feel empathy if they look differently etc. is the most Göring-eske crap i have heard since the last time my grandmother and grandfarther (my he rest in peace) told me stories about their siblings and them selves during N*zi-occupation. And that is saying something!
Just to be clear. The show is pretty bad, but No-one came together to find pitchforks to hate something, if I need my frustrations out, Igo for run or hit a pillow or something. I don't take to the internet to find a community where I can hate on something like a hord of incells. But I will stand up for myself, when I find myself on the recieveing end of defamation. I have style, and decency don't tell me I do not, and that is true for a lot of Tolkien Legendarium Fans, hence why you don't see memes about the Rings of Power series on the Middle Earth Fans Facebook group either... we don't care about that show... (Meme is meant in the sense that they persist, when the series came out last years comedic images were made, but that doesn't make them memes in the definition i use the word in).
@@pederslothzuricho7685 I feel you, but well, some people react differently by being treated like scum, if someone treat you like that and you just walk away, that's good for you... But you can't incite that is wrong that a bunch of people being treated unfairly like scum will be pissed off and talk back... I mean, when you offend one person it might be the case, but try to offend a big group of people and the outcome is completly different and variable.
It's obvious we can't condone with hate speech tru' cast e-mail, if that ever happen, because it could really just be a distortion of what really happened or just a total fabrication to play the victim after treating people like scum (And when it comes to Woke Warriors we can't be sure), because we've seen actors and creators ALSO treating fans like scumbags tru' the marketing campaing, so it wasn't just the executives, or they got to a level that "either you agree with us, or you lose you're role" kind of vibe...
Well, hope you understand, I'm not antagonizing you or anything, I just didn't liked at all being called such things, I didn't made any hate speech directed to any person, but from their point of view, we did, and that's why they call us that, because like you said, they're allergic to negative feedback, even when it's constructive, because fans actually wanted the show to be good (at least before being disrespected)...
And they're so used to being well received by public with those different views, that the only argument they had was to offend Tolkien fans when we simply said "We are not gonna take it because of this and that".
Exactly! When he was asked to take that oath my thoughts were; surely not with his backstory… oh ok… but at least he is not going to break it… WTF?!!
@@pederslothzuricho7685 I love the lore and the stories. Hell The Hobbit was the book that got me into reading. It was the very first book I read on my own, and my main motivation for learning how to read all those big words. It was also the reason why I continued to devour books when I managed it on my own, why my reading comprehension level was always so surprisingly high for my teachers. Consider it a motivation for me to have learned how to read basically.
So I am equally offended by the garbage that came out from Amazon and their marketing, as well as the backlash and attempts at gaslighting when they feel offended we don't like their drivel. Tolkien is a cherished part of my path toward books and learning to read, so it has a very important place in my heart. So all of this is disgusting to me.
Of course that also doesn't mean I don't enjoy the memes. Because to be honest, while some of them are just stupid, there ARE some that actually are funny, and as a person who enjoys wit, the more clever ones do at the very least get a chuckle out of me. So I don't discount ALL memes and jibes toward the series or amazon executives and marketers.
Saying that Gimli was only a comic relief is just a lie. He was emotional character. One of the best in the trilogy. His wit, humor, grief, anger, cockiness. Everything was spot on and perfectly placed.
Well, in the Two Towers, he is played for laughs at times, from the entire sprinting thing, to dwarf tossing... Basically, once the halflings weren't there to fill the role, Gimli was used and lessened for it, as it was more mocking of him and dwarves. Jackson's LotR trilogy is great, but it does have some flaws, and how it treats Gimli is a lesser one of them. He's also never really given a chance to shine, probably because it is harder to show off with awesome axe sequences on a guy with stumpy legs compared to Legolas's bow stuff.
But yeah, he isn't only comic relief. Still, I prefer his portrayal in the books.
Remember how one of the most incredible acts of selfless bravery and heroism in Two Towers is when Gimli, seeing Aragon still dazed after the breach of Helm's Deep, _takes a running leap off of a thirty foot high wall, and starts single-handedly fighting the entire breaching force?_
Whoever thought that clearly never watched the scene in Balin’s Tomb.
@@Axterix13 Was it in the extended? But when Galadriel gave Gimli 3 strands of her hair was massive. Her uncle Feanor asked her for the same but she refused because she saw his flaws. Supposed to have motivated him to make the 3 Silmarils capturing the light of the 2 trees (Galadriel's hair was supposed to have done the same). Same as you, didn't like the comedy stuff with Gimli. It did lessen him
They could have done gimli better that much is true but he was a great character
how dare they attack peter jackson, he made the film series that those short sighted rich idiots in hollywood said for DECADES was impossible to make!... peter jackson made damn near cinimatic perfection, yes nothings perfect nothing can be perfect, everything is flawed in some way and falls short of perfection, but he got as close as any human creator can get.
Yeah, I actually felt offended, what Peter Jackson had which they clearly totally lacked was passion and love for the project, he was a real fan who had read the books many times which they where not (I doubt they have even read the books). Sure hard to make something like this perfect but I think he came as close as you can to perfection.
Close? Return of the King won the most oscars of all time (tying with Ben-Hur and Titanic at 11) How much closer can you get?
perfection is a concept, like infinite, its not a tangible thing its not avhievable by definition... everyhting that exists has some kind of flaws, even if unpercived, its hardly a failing of the films to fall short of something imposible. m8 no diagreement here that they are master pieces, and id say timeless, they will be as amazing ten years from now as they were the day they were made... and 200 years later.... its one of the traits of great art that facinates me the most, how the best art survives the death of the artist and endures throughout time, effecting generations of people centures after its creator has died. i really love that.@@Hero-94
@@teijaflink2226 I think the 'black' elf actor admitted he did not read the books. I'm sure many other actors, if not all of them, did not read the books and don't even know who JRR Tolkien is.
The "elf variety" point is such bull
Elrond: Wise but brooding and fearful
Arwen: Hopeful, Graceful, and Fierce when she needs to be
Galadriel: Etherial, Otherworldly and Generous as she is wise
Legolas: Sarcastic, Spirited, and Intelligent
Celebor: Strong, Noble, and wise.
Each and every elf in the PJ trilogy was a beutifully done individual exemplifying Great virtues, and shadowing the lingering vices of the elves. They were never "perfect"
You forgot one of my favs, Haldir, tough from the outside but he had such a kind soul and he was an Elf of honour. Obviously a bit different from the book, but I loved how PJ made him shine in the cinematic version, despite the short appearance he has in both films.
Look at any fantasy art that has elves in it- they’re all glowing with the light of the Eldar and they have long hair! How hard is it to get elf design so wrong in rings of power? they tried really hard at that
@@JayPadrig Counterexample: Shadowrun. It's a Cyberpunk Fantasy mix though so not entirely surprising. Also some Urban Fantasy settings I guess. But for anything more traditional I agree.
Ah yes, the great virtue of sarcasm.
Exactly, Elves were graceful and near perfect with how they lived, but that created a form of arrogance and pride.
To all who worked on Rings of Power who attack the original LoTR trilogy, I say this:
“You have not seen what I have seen.”
I have seen my share
Yeah, the peter jackson movies lol
I'm confflicted 🐰
@@guillermoelninoeither you like rings of power and therefore have no taste or your an lotr book fanatic who doesnt like the pj movies which is fine by me. to each his own....
except for rings of power
@@antonpayne919 i guess there was room there for misinterpretstion.
I was attempting to make the claim that the ring of power clowns didnt e en watch the lord of the rings movies.
One of my favorite scenes from the Jackson trilogy, is when Frodo is laying on the ground defeated, facing one of his darkest moments alone, then Galadriel appears to him, and lifts him back to his feet. Men will lift you from your darkness with boldness and strength, women will lift you from darkness with love and grace. Was such a great scene!
As a woman person myself, I miss seeing natural feminine traits in strong characters. There's a good reason why we're different to men. It's like all the hollywood execs took a look at Eowyn and were like, "oh! Her 'I am no man' scene was so cool, let's make all women EXACTLY like that (but worse) from now on!"
@@jaceyking47 You're more charitable than I am. I think they hate men, and hate femininity.
@@jaceyking47 Turning men into women and women into men has for decades been the aim of new wave feminism and those seeking to muddle and trip up and ultimately destroy society. And now we've entered the stage of actual, literal dismemberment and mutulation of body parts to switch sides. Pure evil.
Exactly. Can you only picture the fake Galadriel from that show doing the same thing?
@jaceyking47 while missing everything else that made Eowyn such a wonderful character. When she and Merry are waiting for the battle to begin and you can see how terrified they both are and she says "Courage, Merry, courage for our friends" that gets me teary every time. That is true courage and strength. She's my favorite of the ladies.
When Théoden looks at Gimli and says "The horn of Helm Hammerhand shall sound in the deep one last time." And Gimli says, "YESSS" climbs to the top, in a humans fortress that could very well be his last breath to blow the horn that they all will not waiver, That isn't comic relief. The fact that Théoden looks to Gimli for this sacred honor speaks a lot of the tone of the movie. He puts his hand on The King Of Gondor's shoulder to draw swords through all the turmoil they've endured, in this moment of desperation and overwhelming authority, and when the Orcs heard the horn they trembled and couldn't fight, frozen in fear they were felled one by one. Their station can't be besmirched by these cons.
The big issue with these people is that they don't realize people (and characters) are more than just one singular trait
A person who is prone to comment on comedic moments can still be somber and serious when the situation requires
Wow, I got choked up just reading your comment. Good job. It really captured the part in the movie well.
@@joesmutz9287 The "Dwarves are just comic relief" is merely a talking point repeated without thought by Rings of Power fans. Its one of many that seems to have only originated in the last two years, and I suspect was created by Amazon to discredit the opposition.
@@englishlady9797 I could understand the argument if we were talking about the Hobbit trilogy where there was indeed quite a bit (too much) dwarven comic relief. In the LotR trilogy? Nope.
@@englishlady9797 It's not new. I personally had that complaint 20 years ago and still have it. I would have preferred a more serious Gimli myself. But this isn't a flaw in the movie, just a disagreement on an adaptation choice. I also would have preferred Glorfindel to show up in Fellowship, but Fellowship is still #1 or #2 on my list of greatest movies ever. (Depending on my mood sometimes Alien beats it out.)
But you're absolutely write that using it as an attack against the trilogy as a whole is brand new. As a criticism of the film, this about as meaningful as complaining about the stormtrooper bonking his head in Star Wars. Considering a montage of all the characters in Rings of Power bonking their heads would be an improvement on the show, the comic relief attack is entirely disingenuous.
LotR fans have set the gold standard on how to defend a beloved property. It was like watching the charge of the Rohirrim online as they responded to the show.
It’s not just LOTR fans either. I’ve seen fans of all types, mostly those who’ve only watched the movies, come out of nowhere to defend Tolkien.
Isuldur is not portrayed as a villain. He kills Sauron.
And the scene of him refusing to give up the ring serves a vital purpose.
1. It quickly and concisely conveys the corrupting power of the ring.
2. It shows man's increased susceptibility to the ring.
3. It sets up Elrond's loss of trust in man.
4. It sets up the tension in the final moments of the film. Will Frodo do it? Sam yelling at Frodo and Frodo hesitating calls back to that scene of Isuldur.
All in a super short scene.
Yes while not exactly faithful to the books in how it happened PJ was able to get a lot of storytelling and callbacks with that scene.
Bonus: that scene was told from Elrond's point of view so he could simply be biased to Isildur being bad and evil and is remembering it differently than what actually happened.
Never ever did I percieved Isildur as a villain, but simply a flawed man who tried his best to protect his people and ended tragically
Yeah and really they didnt change him... he did decide to keep the ring.
And then he did fail to set any guards when they camped in the galadden feilds... but movie only fans do get a bit of a skew vision of him which is sad because he was a pretty a legendary man.. and not evil in the slightest.
@@frankydawgk3640 To be fair, the book!Isildur was wary about the ring in a different way from his movie depiction. Like when waylaid by the Orcs, he refused to put it on and flee until most were dead and his eldest, Elendur, begged him to do it, and mostly in order to prevent the Ring from being captured by the Orcs. He didn't really use it to protect himself but to keep Sauron from reclaiming it. This is touched on in the Unfinished Tales among other places.
This is hilarious. It's like watching a list of how Tommy Wiseau is supposedly a much better filmmaker than Alfred Hitchcock.
This comment is pure gold
@@Acromion11 Did someone say gold?
Or making a list why Edward D. Wood jr. is the greatest film maker of all time.
Some would say Greta Gerwig is.
I did not mess up this franchise! I did not! I did naaaaaaaaaawt! Oh! Hi Jeff!
The way Isildur is depicted in The Lord of the Rings is necessary. He's not a main character. He has virtually no dialogue. His narrative purpose is to illustrate the danger the Ring poses and that Men are susceptible to it. Jackson couldn't have written him any better without padding out the introduction in a way that would have hurt the overall film.
exactly! It was good movie storytelling. Isildur's fall to the Ring's power was echoed in Boromir's during the Quest. It explained why Frodo needed to leave the Fellowship. It also explained why after all he had been through that even Frodo at the last moment couldn't resist the Ring.
My "favorite" part of the RoP debacle is that they apparently didn't know that death for Elves isn't forever. Even if Celeborn was dead Galadriel would know that he was just waiting out his respawn timer in Mandos. There's literally no scenario where she wouldn't be cheating if she took a lover.
Yep. Finwe taking a second wife was a huge deal in elven society for this exact reason and why we have characters like Felagund who lost their significant other and never looked for abother partner. Not to mention galadriel and celeborn were supposed to be extremely close
@@frking100 Also she thinks she's going to be seperated from Finrod and his memory forever by *going back* to Valinor. Gurl what? He was literally in Valinor. She should have been happy at the prospect of being reunited with him.
@@englishlady9797 The funniest thing is that Finrod was such a gigachad that he was reincarnated almost immediately upon entering the hall of mandos and reunited with his wife so her entire speech was dumb.
I can't move on with the fact that of all characters that ROP chose to ship Guyladriel with is freaking Sauron. Lol. 🤮 It's such a fanfiction thing to see. Also, the obvious contrast between Guyladriel's response to Finrod's death (avenge him) with Guyladriel's afterthought of Celeborn (her freaking HUSBAND). Who's writing this? It's as if she didn't marry Celeborn because of love or something.
@@queenberuthiel5469 My head canon is that I'm not watching galadriel but rather female curufin/celegorm and then tge show makes a whole more sense
The southlanders you guys were talking about were the Haradrim, or the Southrons. In the movie they were the people in the black robes riding the Mumakil's, which were the giant elephants. Tolkien didn't write a whole lot about them, but there was a cool thing where the Blue Wizards made contact with them and managed to convince many of them to turn against Sauron. They were also oppressed by the corsairs of Umbar, which was an old Numenorean settlement that broke off way after the War of the Last Alliance.
Note that Isulder's failure at the beggining of the film is totally mirrored by Frodo's failure at the end - the whole LOTR history is about repeating cycles.
Except in Frodo's case he had the help of a companion and sheer blind luck to help him a reflection that sometimes even the hero will fail but as long as he has companions that are their to help them they can still accomplish their goals. Something Tolkien personally experienced when he fought in WW1.
@@Bird-Birdy-Love Didn't Tolkien mention at one point that the true hero of LotR was Samwise? I could have sworn I read that somewhere. It would make sense. Throughout the journey Samwise is the one constant that keeps Frodo from completely dropping off the deep end. Frodo would have failed long before they even made it to Mt. Doom if he hadn't had Sam with him.
@@wastelandsniper789Yeah he did and that is the point, while Frodo was written to be the hero, the fact is the Samwise is the real hero,the unsung hero, a statement to how many people support the main hero and yet they never get credit cause they are not the centre of the focus.
@@wastelandsniper789
In the books Frodo does much more than he does in the movie. Its very mutual in terms of supporting one another.
A good way to put it is that while Frodo is Everyones hero, Sam is Frodo's hero. Everyone may not appriciate Samwise's contrebution, but Frodo does. There is also the element of status and Lordship. Sam views Frodo as his lord, master, and leader, he sees his actions as extensions of Frodo's quest. Frodo acknowledges this by how he shows appriciation and support to Sam through the story.
It should be noted that Sam held the ring for a while, and in his own estimation, he couldnt handle it. Meanwhile Frodo held it for an exceptionally long time when it was at the height of its power.Thats no small feat of Heroism itself.
Yes, Tolkien said Sam was the real hero, which I think mostly had to do with Sam being working class and therefore more readers would relate to him. I think too much is made of that statement.
Samwise is a fricking legend. But he never leaves the Shire if not for Frodo. It was Frodo that decided to go to Mordor alone to save his friends. And it was Frodo that brought Gollum with them. Sam would have killed or chased Gollum off. So, Frodo doesn't get to Mt. Doom without Sam, but it would have all failed at the end anyway if not for Frodo bringing Gollum along.
Isildur was corrupted by the ring in mount doom where it is at its strongest (in terms of its ability to corrupt). So was Frodo, a hobbit. Hobbits are the most resistant standard race to the rings corrupting effects. I never saw this as Isildur being weak. Aragorn would have failed the same test.
So should any one else. It was nearly impossible to destroy, it was an act of accident that caused the destruction (with a little help from God) and No one had the Will power to overcome that aspect
@@breyor1 thats my point. I don't see it as a Isildur being weak. He is failing in a place anyone else would fail in.
He wasnt corrupted in mount doom, he was corrupted the moment he picked up the ring in the books
There's a reason why Gandalf, a literal demigod angel refuses to touch the ring.
Never was corrupted in the books. At all. The PJ movies are masterpieces but they do Isildur some injustice. In the books, he spends his time being a fair ruler who practically gave power away to the people instead of being power hungry. He comes to realize that he is not powerful enough to truly bend the ring to his will. That it will eventually overcome him. Isildur resolves to give the ring to Elrond but is killed on the way to Rivendel. It's a tragic story of a man that tries to right his wrong but ultimately fails.
In the books isildur literally repented and was about to bring the ring to Rivendell and apologize as he recognized it was beyond him even for a great numenorean connected to the faithful line of the mighty Elendil
I preface the prologue & war, other depictions I LOVE, captured the themes WELL, the vibe of the whole trilogy! The significance of the duel between Elendil & Sauron was Nerffed; (He wasn’t some random old bloke in armour getting smacked around) This man was MIGHTY and gleaming with power which you’ll find out in the great videos you’ll soon react to with joy!
* He and Gil-Galad; last true Elven King battled Sauron and slayed Sauron’s physical body and both died in the process. GilGalad was held high by the face for all free peoples to see as he then incinerated his bodily form to a crisp of ash! Isildur was part of the fight too but not as prominently and he just comes up to the body to cut the ring finger off and…. So one example is how easily Sauron is killed in the intro.
* He's set up as this super powered badass, but all you have to do is cut off his finger? That's not how it went down in the book, where the greatest man-king and the greatest elven-king had to double-team Sauron to strike down his body, but were killed in the effort (Isildur then cuts the ring from the corpse).
Especially for elves the title of king has many meanings & by the Third Age there isn’t a population large enough to even attempt to such a thing as creating a unified kingdom which would put a target on their backs, let alone many of them are beyond all of that anyway as it’s seen as doing more harm than anything good.
* They also seen what happened when the elves fell upon the swords of their own hubris and passion no matter if it was for the right reasons some of the time. That it always ended up in some sort of tragedy which sometimes even damaged the earth itself.
They had long known about what’s called the Long Defeat as ever since Morgoth’s marring of the land itself; pouring his remnants into it that caused the “magic” to slowly drain away from the land itself which is sad because for ages several clans of elves were born there. even the greatest ancestors were “born” in middle earth awakening to the stars !
Many of who are left have accepted the next phase of their life which is to become councillors, healers and loremasters to those within the heart to listen and the desire to learn. But above all the guardians and custodians of several things and the world itself for as long as they can remain!❤ The elves “exist” as long as the world does. And Tolkien made it obvious in many ways that it’s our world as he restored Anglo Saxon culture/Mythologies and folklore, and their languages too alongside Irish, Welsh and Finnish mythologies too. Especially Norwegian(of which I am)
This is what Amazon didn’t deliver (AKA the actual story which inspired everything we love into existence with games and movies and books and so forth. Skyrim, elder scrolls, oblivion, Diablo, and world of Warcraft and D&D. And Game Of Thrones was hugely inspired by Tolkien… yet as the godfather of everything and the heart of what caused many peoples lives to be saved cannot get the justice it deserves for adaptations? People literally conquered cancer because of the books and the trilogy, the books were read to their children for years. All 25 of them. The man was a hugely respected scholar and professor in the world. Translated ancient artifacts and hieroglyphs and petroglyphs and so forth for the government etc. even rejected being recruited into the CIA several times and he wrote everyone by letter. The fans especially. He’d write back to everyone back and forth and many have shared the stories regarding these conversations which were past down throughout the family lines of the people who had a personal relationship with Tolkien which was hundreds of people when he was alive. Thousands.
40:40
"...and out of Far Harad black men like half-trolls with white eyes and red tongues" Page 1054, Chapter five, Return of the King.
Presumably these men are described as such because they were the biggest and meanest looking men the Haradrim had forced from Far-Harad to help them fight Gondor. We can presume these men are meant to be sub-saharan in appearance because it is also mentioned that beyond the deserts of Harad lies a jungle, and that the Mumakil come from those far lands.
Essentially Africa is being described, and the Gondorians are just so happening to meet the most monstrous looking men from that land, because they are warriors in service to the dark tower. It'd be kind of like if we had a book from the Haradrim's perspective that called the Rohirrim "great snow men, like wolves atop horses, with the scales of terrible cold drakes about them." or something like that.
This is what Tom Shippey has said of the passage:
The mention in ‘The Battle of the Pelennor Fields’ of ‘black men like half-trolls’ certainly sounds racist. I think I would say here that Tolkien at this point is trying to write like a medieval chronicler, and when medieval Europeans first encountered sub-Saharan Africans, they were genuinely confused about them, and rather frightened. As Tolkien pointed out in his early scholarly works, the ancient English seemed to have a belief in fire-demons, who naturally enough had skin like soot - their word for them, ‘harwan’, is related to Latin ‘carbo’, ‘soot,’ or carbon. An Anglo-Saxon meeting an African for the first time might then really wonder (for a moment, from a distance) whether this was a demon from his own mythology. This doesn’t mean that Tolkien shared the mythology, or the mistake.
Tom Shippey, in a 2001 Q&A
"Why don't Rohirrim season they food?"
Ngl. That last line was 🔥. Now I wanna see a movie or story from the Haradrim's POV.
@@Josie-Lass That is more in the line of what they should have produced. A new viewpoint from the south or far-east where a couple of Gandalf's ilk were supposed to have traveled and not returned from. They could have had fun going off the deep-end and not gotten much hate because it was hardly written about anywhere. Samurai hobbits or dwarf monks!
@@TCK-9
I agree 100% with you . Even the two blue wizards could have been a different ethnicity ( personally, I imagine them as Morgan Freeman and Ben Kingsley), since their missions were on the South and east. The possibilities, stories and adventures would have been endless. But that requires talent for writing, imagination and knowing the lore. But we both know, the showrunmers and writers of this monstrosity lack all three requirements.
The funniest thing about:"he was the only dwarf in his time" is that in the movies he asks why arent they calling for help from the kingdom under the blue mountain, and legolas *OUTRIGHT STATES* :"they are fighting their own war, they cannot come" and btw, that battle was HUGE like 80k vs 100k and humans and dwarves wère badasses in that fight, especially the two kings, godi wish i could watch that battle
The battle for Erebor in the war of the ring would be a great story to tell indeed.
@@benjaminthibieroz4155 bro, i'd love to see the two kings fighting side by side
@@michelecastellotti9172 who was the human king at the time?
@@benjaminthibieroz4155 Brand, grandson of Bard.
Ismael Cruz Cordova simultaneously saying that he used to play elf as a kid, and that people need to be "seen", is so obviously contradictory, Amazon and their shills could only be appealing to the most smooth brain of viewers.
And now that I double check the article, Cordova even calls elves "aryan". To think, Tolkien clapped back against actual aryan sympathizers decades ago, to have his work percieved in such an erroneous way.
i can't rember the actual qoute, but a german pulisher asked Tolkien if he had Jewish ancestry, he replied something along the lines of. I'm don't but i wish i did.
It's typical of activists (they are not actors but activists :)) they pander and that pandering is annoying as hell.....if they wanted to have diversity in Tolkien's world....all they needed to do was FOLLOW THE DAMN LORE...there are whole peoples, dark skinned Men, Haradrim in Middle-earth!!!! All they needed to do was have a subplot involving Haradrim and Numenorean colonialism...since Numenor settled the shores of Harad, one of their colonies in Second Age, Umbar is even plot relevant for important event happens, Ar-Pharazon lands with his army to subdue Sauron at Umbar! Heck Ismael Cruz Cordova could have played a young Haradrim warrior, Cynthia Addai his girlfriend or maybe Haradrim princess, Lenny Henry an old father figure tribal chief or king..and Sophia Nomvete....some village witch (she is mean so playing a witch would come naturally to her ;)) to show how the Enemy can use temptations of power through offering evil knowledge of black arts of sorcery and necromancy to further corrupt people to serve him!!! Hell it would be so in line with the Second Age lore...it would allow for depicting the moral complexity and true nuance of Tolkien's world! But nope....they just wanted black elves, and other race swaps for diversity quotas!!!! There ARE NO BLACK ELVES...if Ismael wanted to play one....he should go star in some Dungeons and Dragon...play a Drow or something......ughhhhhhh it's frustrating....but it only shows how ideaologically stuck up these people are! They had in lore actual members of a different culture, actual dark skinned peoples....hell there are description of Tolkien of Haradrim warriors which make them unique and would even give clues how to depict them visually!
""'More Men going to Mordor,' he [Gollum] said in a low voice. 'Dark faces. We have not seen Men like these before... They are fierce. They have black eyes, and long black hair, and gold rings in their ears... lots of beautiful gold. And some have red paint on their cheeks, and red cloaks and their flags are red, and the tips of their spears; and they have round shields, yellow and black with big spikes."
...
"For a moment he caught a glimpse of swarthy men in red running down the slope some way off with green-clad warriors leaping after them... a man fell, crashing through the slender trees, nearly on top of them. He came to rest in the fern a few feet away, face downward, green arrow-feathers sticking from his neck below a golden collar. His scarlet robes were tattered, his corslet of overlapping brazen plates was rent and hewn, his black plaits of hair braided with gold were drenched with blood. His brown hand still clutched the hilt of a broken sword."
This would have been amazing design! A character could look unique! But nope they had Ismael playing an elf....with the laziest and ugliest design, the buzz haircut and most ridiculous bland outfit....completely unimaginative!!!! Guy doesn't looke like an elf in the slightest!!!! Simply put the Dwarves and Elves as very concepts ARE EUROPEAN....so naturally they would be imagined as having the European features...and they live in the north-western region correspondign to Europe!!! It;'s natural just like a Japanese mythical creature like say snow demon Yuki-onna who is usually in humanoid form.....surprise surprise....a pale Japanese woman! Seriously the stuff these people say sometimes....so now Cordova says elves are Aryan hahha, well factually the 'blond blue eyed' features are only of portion of elves, one clan of golden haired Elves, Vanyar, and some minorities in other clans or through the Vanyar descent...Galadriel has golden hair due to Vanyar ancestor, but usually the Noldor are usually the dark haired, grey eyed....they do have white skin though....like Europeans, Teleri some of them are said to have blue eyes, but they often are also dark haired, brown haired etc.
Also, while he claimed to play an elf as a kid, it was pretty clear at last year's San Diego comic con that he doesn't know much about Tolkien's work, or have much interest. When Steve Colbert was interviewing the cast, he asked ICC what kind of Silvan elf his character was, and he didn't know. One would think he'd have looked into things on his character's race. Then Colbert asked if the image on his breastplate was an Ent, and ICC said he'd asked 3 costume designers what it was and they each gave him a different answer, and that Colbert should ask the showrunners. That's pretty telling, in showing that people making the show didn't really know what they were doing, possibly not getting clear direction from the showrunners; and also that ICC didn't care enough about it to ask the showrunners himself.
@@marychocolatefairy it only shows how litle the team behind it cares about source material, they are doing some half assed attempts at making their own thing....but even those are not that well thought through!
47:34
They aren’t even looking at a blank page and asking, “what would Tolkien have written here?” They are looking at a blank page and saying, “we can insert our agenda here.” They then look at the filled pages of Tolkien’s work and scribble out the parts inconvenient to that agenda.
How good is LOTR? Even the commentary by both cast and crew is worth watching. You have a sense of the love and passion that went into the trilogy. Is it perfect? No, but few things are. But if i could rewatch anything for the first time again, it would be PJ's work. And the music? Just exquisite.
I internally cringe anytime someone wants to make an adaptation of anything i like. So thanks for making 2023 a year of: TIHI.
My first time watching The Fellowship was on my 14" TV in my room on a blockbuster rented VHS.
But I might as well have been in a top range cinema in ultra HD.
It didn't matter, it was amazing and I still remember my first watch so vividly.
Love at first sight I guess haha.
How good is LOTR?
read books
if it's too hard for you
look for the cartoon The Lord of the Rings (1978 film)
and then go watch the LOTR movies
My siblings and I used to alternate between LOTR and Harry Potter and the Philosopher’s Stone so much that we memorized all the lines from both movies. We watched it enough that my younger brother recreated the first LOTR movie, complete with sound effects and stunt work (the sword spinning thing cool guys do), as a one man show.
Rings of Bezos lost me when i found out they were sending the Istari in the wrong age and erasing Cirdan...
Seriously, how do you tell the story of the Three without the guy who gives Narya to Gandalf...
At last Jackson included Cirdan at the very end... (even if he did erase my favorite chapter, The Scouring)
18:38 Gimli is the first (and only) one who activly tries to destroy the ring. How can it get more badass than that?
There used to be a fun edit where he actually does destroy it in that scene.
He hits it with an axe, the axe breaks and Gimli falls on his behind. Gimli isn't badass in that scene, just an ass
@@exantiuse497He saw a problem.
Devised a simple solution.
Found out it was not going to work.
That's just how it sometimes goes.
And also emotional when he ask for galadriels strand of hair
@@sehu1291 That scene goes deeper than you would think. has a lot of weight to it if you are a true LotR fan.
When people see Gimli as a comic relief, they usually point to the "Toss me!"-Scene in the movies. And in a way this scene is funny. But it is much more than that. 1. It shows that Gimli prioritizes helping in the fight and doing his duty over his pride. 2. It shows how much he trusts Aragorn to keep this between them so that he is not the butt of jokes later. He makes himself vulnerable before his friend to get the job done. 3. Aragorn hadn't considered that as an option, he seems genuinely surpised about the suggested solution. He takes Gimli serious and he wouldn't suggest anything that hurts Gimlis pride. He is also very serious about keeping this a secret between them, another sign of respect.
This is one of the things that shows like Rings of Power don't understand: That scenes like that can have multiple layers and there can be a funny aspect while showing serious things about the relationship of the characters at the same time. The fact alone that I can go that deep into that scene shows how good the writing and acting in Jacksons movies is, it dosen't stop at surface level jokes.
I mean, Gimli isn't 'only' comic relief in the Jackson films, but tbh it's hard to argue that that isn't one of his roles. There's 'Toss Me' at Helm's Deep, the refusal to be tossed in Moria (which technically nearly gets him killed, and Legolas has to save him by grabbing his beard), passing out in a drinking contest with Legolas in Edoras, having to be dragged away from the breach in the Deeping Wall like a drunkard at last orders, having multiple wargs and orcs land on him in a pile during the Warg Rider fight, and not being able to see over the wall at Helm's Deep (even though that's actually the point of a wall like that), all of which do have Gimli as the butt of the joke. However, he also gets a bunch of funny scenes that aren't at his expense, like his reaction to Legolas killing the Mumakil, his response to the plan to march on the Black Gate, and the kill tally at the end of Helm's Deep (which isn't played for laughs at all in the book iirc). So yes, he's definitely a character with a comedic role, and he's the butt of the joke more often than any of the main cast (except maybe Merry and Pippin). Certainly more so than Aragorn/Legolas/Gandalf and in a way that he isn't in the books. So if someone would have preferred a more serious, true to the book, interpretation of Gimli then that's a viewpoint that could be legitimately held and defended imo (although I somewhat doubt RoP defenders are acting in that sort of good faith...).
The funniest thing in this scene for me was always that Gimli by virtue of his dense body and massive equipment would have been the heaviest character between the three.
So if anything Gimli could have thrown Aragorn.
Well, stupid people don't understand nuance, or character, they only understand plot.
" I can not make the Gap, toss me"
Not the beard!
guy-ladriel is actually relatable....to entitled people like the ones who made this abomination of a show which is a mockery of his magnificent work
there's an amazing video I found that shows her character traits and compares them to other evil characters like Ted Bundy and the villain from Schindler's List, even showing one of her scenes side by side with one of his scenes. It's practically a shot for shot remake.
17:22
Funnily enough, Gimli actually WINS the contest by 1 kill in the book during the fight at Helm’s Deep.
He does in the movie too.
@@bullmoose5574 He does? I must have missed that.
It was in the extended edition.
@ajturner1894 that makes sense. I'm not sure I've ever watched theatrical two towers except in theaters. I tried watching the theatrical Fellowship on Netflix 5 or 6 years ago and it just felt wrong to me. The movies ARE the extended editions.
Also leads to one of the nicer Legolas and Gimli moments in the book, where Treebeard gets apprehensive upon seeing Gimli with an axe but Legolas assures him that the axe is for slaying orcs, referencing the contest for how much he does it.
I never got 'bad guy Isildur' vibe from movies. If anything: it looked like cautionary warning of "Look, even that heroic, brave and saintly king did bend under the charm of this ring:
The RoP Isildur? They establish him:
-A lair
-A coward
-An incompetent
-A weakling
-Bad friend to have
Heck, if he ends up a legendary King he is meant to be I would be 1st to shout nepotism and fraudster ! He is in no way sympathetic... it is hard to even find redeeming aspects to him and it is frankly a most likely something 'by design'.
Though what they did to Galadriel is even worse.
It's been a while but I vaguely remember his keeping the ring was more interesting. Not just "oh I got a level doubling ring". And not sure he wore it before his death
@@darkhighwayman1757 Oh, the story of that was much longer and much more interesting and if I recall he did decide to destroy it but on the way to discuss it was killed with whole his entourage.
If we talk about the books.
In terms of movie: there was a certain 'mystique' and lack of detail to whole issue. As well as very early suggestion of Ring not only having will of it's own but having immensely potent will.
Is it just me, or did it seem like ROP is Morgoth propaganda.
@@darkhighwayman1757He did wear it at the very end of his life, though it abandoned him. He acknowledged that he feared the ring and knew he could not control it.
The people who made/enjoy Rings of Power have a very distorted, even wicked worldview. That’s why they can say things like “Elrond is exhibits more goodness in ROP.” They see manipulation and dishonesty to serve their ends as a virtue, while real care and concern for his daughter comes off to them as manipulative and oppressive.
Just Some Guy did a great video on the cultural dynamics of Middle Earth and how there was a way to have "diversity" while still being true to the source material. The creators weren't fans of Tolkien, they were fans of "The Message"
Yeah, from interviews I've seen of them, I've gotten the impression that at least one, if not both, of them just knew the movies at best and not the books at all.
He has great content for sure. Especially George The Giant Slayer, AngryMexa, Dogpit, Nazgol and so many others.
And what annoys me is it doesn’t need to be diverse, it’s meant to be Englands fairy tales that were lost. It should look like they’re all British or Druid’s or whatnot, but not other races.
Probably not a good example. Just some guy is a massive Npc for the message. He’s a bonafide sjw Californian and you can tell just by listening to opinions for 3 minutes.
I would make the defense that Isildur in the Jackson trilogy can be seen as more of a tragic character than a villain by the end of the trilogy. It could be said that what happened to Frodo is exactly what happened to Isildur.
So whoever wrote this ridiculous piece had neither read the books nor seen the Jackson trilogy. I don’t understand that they are not afraid to embarrass themselves like this, when I worked as a journalist, I took pride in everything I did, and when I made mistakes, it haunted me for years.
By the way, I highly recommend the books, they’re the best I’ve ever read, except for the Narnia books 😊 personal opinion
Agree .
Chronicles of Narnia is another childhood favorite of mine that Amazon has slated for destruction in its ongoing campaign of cultural vandalism.
Yes! A Narnian fan!!!! Glad to meet you. 😊
@@jonashartman3059 🤝
@@eadric3338 Oh great.
The last thing I want is Hollyweird touching Narnia.
It’s a billion dollar show, there are no excuses for poor writing and plot…🤷♀️
The writing and plot are considered good by Modern Audience standards.
They do not understand how much they would profit by releasing a statement like “ we deeply apologize for the quality of ROP , and promise to improve for the next season
I really don't think people would believe them. Too many bait-and--switches happening around all these trash shows.
They did say that, but the damage is already done. The show was so terrible it's literally not salvagable with better writing or lore accurate retcon-ing.
They did say that basically. But why should we believe them? And even if we did, it's too late. The base set up in season 1 is fundamentally rotten. You can't build a good season 2 on that.
Easier just to call critics of their utter bs nasty names.
ROP was so bad there is no way to save it. You would have to retcon the whole season as being a dream of some character. Trying to improve the series is like trying to make a diamond out of a hunk of shit.
My favourite part of Rings of Power was when Galadriel suddenly decides to jump off the boat in the middle of the ocean and swim back. Had a good laugh. Also when she punches through the ice with her fist like its nothing.
Guy Lad Dude wow stunning badass boss girl!
And what in f***'s name were a bunch of humans doing paddling around in the waters just off Valinor? Not to mention Sauron.
I miss when journalists would write about facts instead of trying to brainwash their readers to follow their obvious contradictory biases.
A sure fire sign of Communism, and to a lesser degree, spoiled children pretending to be doing something revolutionary.
I call that phenomenon "campaigning". Where a person campaigns for every little thing in their life; they are a "fan" of everything.
"Have you tried "thing"?" " "Thing" is so amazing, everyone should like "thing" like I like "thing".
“PJ’s movies were limited to the lore, while our show had the liberty of creation”
😂
Most of Gimli's humor in the Peter Jackson movies was either through blunt gallows humor, or his tendency to not hold back anything in combat, leading to moments of comical badassery. Both of those are well documented dwarven traits, and when you consider who the dwarves are based on, being the Norse, it's hardly surprising
And trying to distract the very young very inexperienced hobbits with no training from the dangers and terrors they would or had experienced so far from a experienced veteran or squad leader type of way - while at the same time looking up to aragorn and legolas for their broader experience (even though lego looked similar in age, he was much much older than the rest.)
Apart from the halls of the dead part. Blowing ghost hands away was cringe as fook in a part that was horrifying in the books. That part scarred me as a child when my mum read it to me.
29:10 There's more proof that they should have long hair than against. I think it was one of the LotR books or maybe Silmarillion where it was mentioned that the bowstrings they used were made of elven hair. That said, it doesn't mean all elves did that but I think it's more likely than not.
I really like the dynamic between you two in this video. Kramer's calm critique balances Shad's passionate protests rather well. Good job.
wish hed stop screaming over kramer tho, i wana hear the man cook not shad screaming over him while he talks.
They did have an outside perspective: They hired an academic that specialized in Tolkien's works. When he raised objections, they fired him.
You guys finally found Kramer! Man how long was he lost in the woods again? Definitely long enough for you and the boys to fight a troll lol.
How was Sauron unseen? You see him everywhere. He is the darkness engulfing the land. He is quite literally omnipresent.
There are things Rings Of Power did better:
Antagonize fans
Racebait
Genderbait
Disregard lore
Disrespect the creator
Remember also, they passed over the most epic tales in the silmarillion (Finrod's song battle with Sauron being the least of these, which should tell you something about the rest). The Children of Hurin, the Fall of Gondolin and Tuor's journey there, the bloody history of the Silmarils, the Rise and Fall of Numenor, and BEREN AND LUTHIEN! IF THEY WANTED A STORY OF A BADASS ELVIN WOMAN THEY SHOULD HAVE TOLD THE STORY OF BEREN AND LUTHIEN! But I'm glad they didn't because they would probably have ruined all of these stories. ... sorry. It still frustrates me when I think about it.
They only had rights to the appendices at the end of The Lord of the Rings book.
@@jamesdaniels8007 they didn't even go with that information as it states very clearly that Galadriel was married and had a daughter by the time period that Rings of Power takes place in.
@@RoseBaggins I think that's the point. They didn't even care enough to go with the material they had the rights to.
Amazon and their shills will never do Beren and Luthien story because is about a male and a female love story in which the female is ready to risk EVERYTHING for her loved man, to the point to even REVIVE him!!!
Wokeism will never tell a story when an heterosexual couple fight to be together!!! It is against "the message"...
so you didn't watch the show... she talks about her husband@@RoseBaggins
it shows how much those "fan" cared about the original source material to begin with..
If you love LOTR and really want something that will tug your heartstrings. Listen to John Rhys Davies reciting the "Song of Durin."
Or _Clavami de Profundis'_ choral version of the poem.
you forgot the fact Galadriel forgot she was married the whole show while she is helicopter hovering sauron and gandalf wasn't even in Middle earth at the time of rings of Prime AND THERE WERE NO MFING HARFOOTS I will just nut shell it as the RINGS OF PRIME= Trash LOTR= Badass and pretty lore accurate
And Galadriel at that point had a 3000 year old daughter with her husband. Galadriel and Celeborn were a power couple that were very loyal to each other.
Peter Jackson's films: Respected the original source material and made reasonable changes for the sake of pacing and keeping things understandable for broad audiences.
Rings of Power: Literal fanfiction
Around point 2 Shad is simply loosing his (saintly) patience with whole idiocy and it is glorious.
If I want Umber elves, I'll make them myself. For my own work, the Aziza fill that role. They even get to be bioluminescent.
Seriously, though, Dwarves are strictly comic relief? Gimli certainly had *less* gravity in the Peter Jackson trilogy than Tolkien's work, but it wasn't completely lacking.
yesss YES I knew they could not help themselves, they have to take off their mask and hold their evil monologue!
"you like these bigot books?! how dare you, coooonsume our fanfiction instead!!!!"
33:18 In the annex to LotR Galadriel reduces Dol Guldur to ruble single-handedly. Granted, she uses her ring to do it. But the rings only grant power according to the manner of their wielder. She must have been hell on wheels, even before she got that thing. Giving her a sword instead is like inviting a world-class violinist onto a stage and then handing them a kazoo.
There was a tempest in them!
You misquote Galadriel, she said she had a Tampax in her!
I believe that was trapped wind.
@@douglasarthur2673 The wind is always right.
The Southlands in the show are Mordor. Mordor is further north than Gondor. They could have used Southrons but that would have required them to actually, you know, go further south than the equivalent of Serbia lol
Yup, or for those accustomed to the Sindarin term: Harad. It should be noted however that Arnor and Gondor weren't established until after the fall of Numenor
I mean Minas Tirith is in middle earth Serbia. Tolkien said it was Belgrade (if the Hobbiton was Oxford) [but with the climate of Ravenna, which has a similar latitude]. Mordor is like Transylvania/Romania
@@Drew_McTygue Gondor hadn't been founded yet but there were still Numenorian cities there, most famously at Umbar which was hundreds of miles south of the supposed "Southlands"
honestly they could have used actors of any ethnicity and it would have been fine, so long as they had the brains to stick to some sort of geographic logic to who was from where. Making the original inhabitants of Mordor any color would not have changed the narrative at all, but making them as ethnically diverse as Los Angeles DOES ruin immersion
The color and appearance of people in fantasy is rarely something you can't take liberties with, the problem is the morons who don't understand that you have to actually devote a few braincells to what those choices do to your world building. Most of OUR planet isn't actually as ethnically diverse as a backwater village in a depopulated country in Rings of Power....
This is so weird...I just finished a LotR marathon and all of a sudden Shadiversity/Knights Watch are making LotR videos!
Coincidence? I think NOT!
Shout out to the Legolas-arrow-stab vid that was just released!
Remember when the actor in ROP who played Sauron said that he wasn't told he was playing Sauron until the final episodes of filming? That's how you know it's better than a beloved film series, when your actors don't even know who they are portraying on screen.
Yeah, and besides that, the showrunners were soooo secretive about everything that they didn't tell anyone who they were auditioning for at first. Galadriel's actress said she didn't even know which show she was auditioning for. But tbf that might be a her thing, since Halbrand's actor seemed super surprised when she said that, lol, like he couldn't understand how that had happened. But anyway, that's certainly not a good way of finding the right actor for roles- no wonder so many people were miscast. This also led to some actors leaving early. One was Will Poulter, who was cast as Elrond - my theory is he bailed after getting to see the script.
You guys make a great pair! Looking forward to this collaboration, lots of chemistry here that will only get better.
definitely. This guy seems quite intelligent as well.
To these people, I can only say: „Stop it. Get some help.“
ROP can’t even compare to the Hobbit-Trilogy. Even that is no competition.
Elrond was more jovial in the books than in the movies.
Remember they called Galadriel, "The Warrior of the Wasteland"? Is she also "The Ayatollah of Rock and Rolla?"
There is a great scene in The Hobbit that shows Galadriel's power and importance - when Gandalf speaks to Elrond. Elrond says that he is not the one to answer to - and at that moment Lady Galadriel is shown. She is beautiful and powerful here, it is understandable why Sauron was afraid of her. Then in the scene of rescuing Gandalf they show what she is capable of. She doesn't need a sword, she is strong in other things - knowledge and magic.
I looked at the article and glanced at the 8 taglines and was just amazed at the complete bullshitery of their claims.
Considering that RoP is indefensible that's a pretty bold move. It's clear they were using the encyclopedia of thin air to defend their points.
Them - "You have not seen, what I have seen!"
Me - That is true and that's why I'm happier than you! 😝
I wrote a counter article.
"Three things Peter Jackson's Trilogy did better than the Rings of power":
1 The Fellowship of the Ring
2 The Two Towers
3 The Return of the King
And all of them were filmed AT THE SAME TIME
Viggo Mortensen getting cast at the last minute and having limited time training with swords when his whole character hinges on him being one of the strongest swordsmen in Middle Earth yet still pulling it off is wild.
One of the stories of Tolkien (in this case the story of him and his son combined) that I really wanted to see a adaptation of is "The Children of Hùrin". Preferably a game. But now that I see how they just slaughter Tolkiens work, I don't want it anymore. But if someone did a faithful adaptation of Tùrins story....I would absolutely love it. The book was so good I read it in 1 day, and at the end I had to cry, it was so sad. Just a excellent story that evokes so many feelings.
If you haven't read it yet, I cannot recommend it enough.
the Narn is definitely my favourite Tolkien story
Man, if they did it right, and I mean did it RIGHT, a Turin Turambar game would be one of the greatest pieces of media EVER. So we all know it's not going to happen.
@@jaceyking47true :(
Thanks for the tip, ill read it.
@@jaceyking47it's like God of War but LoTR.
The people who made Senua's Sacrifice could do it thematic justice!
RoP isn't in the same league of anything made by Jackson.
RoP isn't even in the same league as the mess a baby makes in their nappy !
As an avid gamer, yes, I can confirm "Knife Ear" is a racial slur often used towards Elves in Dragon Age. My favourite insults have got to be "Nug Humper" and "Bronto Licker", but these ones aren't racial slurs, they are insults typically used by Dragon Age Dwarves. "Rabbit" is another racial slur for Elves too, but this one is considered to be a little softer. We also have "Shem" or "Shemlen", which are racial slurs used towards Humans by the Elves. See, everyone's racist in Dragon Age!
Attacking Peter Jackson's Lord of the Rings is the biggest no win scenario I've ever seen. The sheer audacity of these people to compare their tripe to LotR is astounding.
Cool seeing creators I found independently collaborating.
But shad , ROP had better dialogue. Remember “ give me the meat , and give it to me raw “
That does sound like pretty funny dialogue.
The writers of Rings of Power didn't only not understand Tolkien or his characters, they didn't understand how 'character' works. Someone I work with who knew nothing of LotR asked me when Galadrial reveals herself as the villain so Halbrand could do the heroic face off against her. Let me repeat that, they screwed up the characterization so badly people unfamiliar with the story think the characters are on opposite sides.
Great to see you collaborating together. I enjoy both your channels and think you both bring interesting perspectives to this conversation. Hope there is a lot more to come.
What a coincidence! While you were talking about this article, I’ve just watched a video named: “Why WOKE HOLLYWOOD Hasn’t Ruined Tolkien’s Legacy | Rings of Power” 😅 from the RUclips channel “Pillar of Garbage”.
Sauron just wants to be a normal dude working his way through life. Galadriel literally turns him into the big baddie.
This is an excellent duo to talk about Rings of Power. Two people who fundamentally get why we love LotR.
They are probably talking about the Hobbit Trilogy Dwarves, who are like 9/13 comedy characters.
"The fandom did not pass through dumpster fire and woke to bandy crooked words with a witless screen rant worm"
When they attacked the hobbit unwanted trilogy: not my problem yet
When they slander the Lord of the rings trilogy:
*Batman Glare and WWE Kane intro*
Resurrection of The Undertaker......!
The most egregious liberty taken by Jackson, et al., was changing Faramir's character. I think it has been said that they needed some sort tension to increase the impact, but there are many ways that could have been handled without betraying Faramir.
Another point about using maps : you need a certain level of civilisation to make some. And still they started as schematics following the roads, there is a famous roman map of their empire that is very long. For geographically accurate maps, it usually started as naval maps (the Mercator Projection was designed as one).
Elves would have accurate maps, Numenoreans too, as they are used to sailing the ocean. But any other culture at this point, at most maps bought from them, and certainly no common orc would. Using a feature on the map to convey a location to orcs makes zero sense.
The team up I’ve been waiting for!
The thing is making Sauron where he isn't actively seeking to gain power could be fine. He was effectively hiding away remaining low to avoid punishment to the point he was practically rethinking his ways. If it had been around him just making it by in the world where he saw how man could be exploited, how he had a way to gain power and to devise a plot to gain power and take over after Morgoth's fall it could of been really interesting if written well of him falling to darkness rather then having that second chance.
The mystery of the Dwemer from thr Elder Scrolls is a great example. The lack of details makes it so fascinating and open to fan theories and interpretations
These writers have no idea how to write a story. They just come up with "cool" moments and then try to somehow stitch them together. They dont write a coherent story, they just write the equivalent of a bunch of one-line jokes with bad setups.
Remember how they depicted Finrod's death in the show vs. how it was supposed to happen? Remember when Simon Tolkien criticized Jackson's Trilogy saying it was "too perfect". No they just didn't give the Tolkien estate enough money which was a quarter of a billion dollars to sell out your family's legacy.
I can see how someone would perceive Isildur as a villain in the Lord of the Rings movies...assuming they only watched the first five minutes and then stopped.
Isildur succumbed to the temptation of the ring just like Boromir did and like Frodo did in the end. Succumbing to the ring is supposed to be expected, resisting its temptations is the astonishing thing!
Tolkien depicted Elves with long black hair and white skin. See: "Beleg finds Gwindor in Taur-na-Fúin". This is a painting.
They pulled the same crap to try & defend the Star Wars sequels too. Nobody I know takes ScreenRant seriously, they're just fishing for hate-clicks with these kinds of articles because they know they've got no credibility left
Journos are trying to struggle session anyone who they ensnare
I am so surprised by the lack of mention I've seen from the fans about The Unfinished Tales of Middle-Earth. It has so much info about the second age, that's what the Rings of Power was ignoring most.