Ahh, the CW crowd... The fine folks who ruined "Arrow" after the 2nd season by banging Berlanti and Co.over the head with a sledgehammer that had the word "OLICITY" sand blasted into it... Though I suppose the studio is just as much (if not more so) to blame as those brain-dead "shippers" are. Things just went downhill from there, as they double, triple, and QUADRUPLED down... ruining "The Flash", "Supergirl", and even "Legends of Tomorrow" as well... all three of which were actually fairly good during their early seasons. Oh well... what could have been...
@@thisisnotachannel see they listened to the shippers for fucking olicity but everyone wanting supercorp got shafted. only reason why i watched them ruin lena's character for so long was to see if they'd give in but no one main lesbian couple in dc was all we were getting even if kara and lena had more romantic tension with each other than any one of their love interests.
CW needs to give the DCU a break they played it out over the last 10 years with the arrow verse. That show caught lightning in a bottle and is unlikely to be repeated the flash fell off half way through it's run.
Lol I was immediately titling my head thinking how they could fuck up or reverse something so simple? Literally every other Two Face says Heads you live, tails..... Not so lucky.
i’m so mad they made steph rich and basically tim a big part of her character is her family. her mother is a nurse and a drug addict. her dad is a criminal. she’s smart, but not the way Tim is smart. she’s untrained and bruce doesn’t *trust her.* if she’s in an adaptation, she needs to be in outs with the bat family of the show.
Gotham has some good and bad moments, some that maybe they rushed it in too much and rather have saved if for a sequel series, but it was better then this tbh, but I do love to see a continuation of Gotham as Batman's Year One but as as series tbh, and build it up until he becomes Batman fully, so yeah
Also gotham is fun, and the villains are the real stars, thats why it works. That and getting a sense of campy fun with a soap opera with a lot batman villains. And gordon is solid enough, and harvey. And interesting character developement. i even liked barbra after she went villain. They got also joker right, all 2 of them.
One thing i like about gotham was making catwomen and batman love interest prior to their custom escaped. One bad thing was poor commish gordon love life. I just cant see him having batgirl with the way his love live went and came.
I like the theory that WB _can’t_ use Batman himself in a TV show because of rights issues stemming back to the Adam West show. It just… fits so well and makes everything they’ve done since Smallville make sense.
@@suezcontours6653 Oh no, the quality’s got nothing to do with it. Everyone demanded to see Batman on Smallville, but the producers were never allowed. The theory goes that Fox still owns the Batman TV rights thanks to the Adam West show, which is why you have all these series set in Gotham City but without Batman. Even _Gotham,_ allegedly part of a deal WB and Fox made in order to secure the ‘66 series DVD rights, wasn’t allowed to use the actual Batman until literally the last shot.
I am pretty sure that it's basically confirmed because they literally just made Green Arrow their own version of Batman and gave him all of his rouge's gallery as well like Ra's Al Ghoul, Deathstroke, Deadshot, Fire Fly, Talia, Nyssa, etc. Except they kept flip flopping if Oliver should kill or not because I am guessing they were trying to emulate the fact that Batman did kill in the first few issues he showed up in the comics but eventually stopped. It's honestly wild to think that Batman can't have a live action show centered around him but we have gotten 3 Superman based shows (Smallville, Supergirl, Superman & Lois) where he shows up and their is no issues despite him arguably being more famous than Batman.
@@ricniks4619 It’s crazy how many things happen because of licensing deals rather than creative choice. Lawyers decided that Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch were both X-Men AND Avengers characters, so the twins’ movie rights were split. The MCU got to keep Wanda but their Pietro died after one film, while the FoX-Men’s Peter was in three movies but had an unnamed, noticeably younger sister. Oh, and the Venom, Morbius, Kraven, and Madam Web movies? They’re being made exclusively because if Sony doesn’t release a new live action film based on Spider-Man every few years, they’ll lose the rights. But when they went to Marvel Studios to reboot Spidey into the MCU, part of that deal was that Sony can’t actually use Spider-Man _himself_ in their movies. So they’re left making films of increasingly-obscure side-characters.
@@DrFranklynAnderson Oh believe me I know about licensing deals when it comes to Superhero movies far too well. Remember when FOX kept making Fantastic Four movies that were shit because they didn't intend for it to be good or comic accurate they just made them so Marvel wouldn't get the rights back?.
He also what kept supernatural as going ok as it did, with incredible range. ok supernatural has a great support cast, but he did add a loot to keep its as ok as it did. Sucks he wasnt in a bette show, or jokers daughter.
Agreed....I think his voice for the character was closer to his Castiel voice more then Heath ledger but I can see what he means kinda too it a combination of the 2
@@marocat4749Cass is the best character on Supernatural IMO.....he had so much character growth, development and plot twists. I admit I fell off at the end, I stopped watching when Sam and Dean's mom came back to live and was damn near younger then her kids they lost me. I need to go back and watch those last 2 seasons though I committed to like 14 or 14 before that I gotta finish it, fingers crossed they stick the landing and hopefully Cass has a good role in the ending. I've somehow managed to dodge spoilers to this day but I don't expect a good ending for the brothers, hunters don't have IRAs or retirement plans.
Cluemaster has a cool role in a New 52 series where he's able to orchestrate a plan and Batman never suspects him because he's running a group of D-tier villains who are able to wreak havoc while Batman follows the big names, but if your show doesn't really have Batman or the big names that doesn't exactly work.
Spoilers of Batman Eternal if anyone cares Too many people slept on Batman Eternal, but it did things this show couldn’t even dream of. It was the perfect mix of obscure and big names working in tandem. Batman isn’t even the focus point, but instead the connecting piece. The entire bat family was brought to the foreground as they fought this cavalcade of Batman’s fears and enemies, all the while Snyder introduces three new characters that are still around today. It blended the horror, the magic, the early days of street crime, the super villians, the entire Batman mythos into a fun and engaging tale. It gets a fucking unironic Chefs Kiss! Hell, it even introduced my favorite new character, Blue Bird / Harper Row; who was everything this show wanted and couldn’t make. A conscious new age character who understood and represented new and progressive ideas without that being all her character was. She was just a good prog character. It also used the original version of “The Jokers Daughter” but she wore the man’s cut off face and was awesome! Plus strapping Batman to the bat signal and carving the symbol into his chest is Top Tier petty bitch villain shit and it’s PEAK BATMAN! Clue Master got his shit back in blood.
@@Gus-n9u I ended up with a copy of the collection despite not being up to speed on modern DC or the extended Bat Family and I quite enjoyed it. Minor spoilers but we've already been talking about it: I would have preferred they actually stuck with the Cluemaster reveal though because they pulled another "It was me the whole time" on top of him that made it lose its impact, especially since with my limited comics knowledge I didn't know who the guy was.
@@nathaniel201 no, you are not alone in this idea. That man was Lincoln March, a character who is Harvey Dent-Esq and a major player in Gotham Politics. In the court of the owls comic, near the end, it is revealed that Lincoln has been controlled by the Court from birth to believe he is the long lost brother of Bruce and was sent to an orphanage by Martha Wayne who maybe wanted to get him back, but then died al a Batman’s Origin. Lincoln kills the entire court of owls and is the secret big bad of that saga in a fun little twist. This all happened in Batman the comic by the same author/ artist duo of Scott Snyder and Greg Capullo and was released only a year or two before Batman Eternal. So if you were a fan and reading these linearly, this could have been a cool reveal for you….. which it was to many. However, Lincoln as a character didn’t have the same stat power that The Court of Owls had and was never really picked up again by the writers who would follow Snyder. And as such, the most common take about Batman Eternal is that it would have been cooler as a stand alone and that Lincoln didn’t really fit. But it wasn’t a stand alone story, it was one of the many comic lines that revolve around Batman and are connected to whatever current canon he is operating in. Scott is viewed by many as being one of the seminal writers of the character Batman, held in line with the likes of Frank Miller and Grant Morrison and Jeph Loeb. He is by some, myself included, considered to be the best at writing Batman as The Detective and giving Gotham that Horror vibe it deserves. However, some are justifiably critical of how much he is a “comic book writer”, which doesn’t mean he is sexist or anything, quite the opposite infact, but instead it means that he does love BIG AND OUTLANDISH twists and “comic book” reveals and mix-em-ups. To me that’s part of his charm, but to some it can be too much, especially given how good he is at grounding the characters before going Whole Hog Comics. If you wish to see more of his work, he did the New 52 Run of Batman, as well as both the major events Dark Nights Metal and Dark Knight Death Metal. He was even allowed to write a non-canonical stand alone graphic novel that is HIS Batman’s definitive ending called The Last Knight on Earth, and it’s…. Wild. (This writer Scott Snyder has no relation to Zach Snyder the director, BTW). Fuck… sorry for rambling
Gotham cops were so stupid they thought Batman was beat to death by his untrained adopted son. Also, when Batbaby was rescuing a woman from the Court of Owls, they stopped in the middle of the forest and talked until an assassin stabbed her with a sword until she was killed to death. Instead of running, not walking away😮
@@homeostvsis and there's also the fact they probably wouldn't have the budget to neo-gotham though they could change it to where batman beyond takes place in a slightly futuristic version of modern day and heroes like batman,superman and wonder woman existed in the 40s or 50s.
They could have also used Helena Wayne or Duke Thomas as those are also his "robins" in the comics, but for reason, they chose to create a less interesting Dick Grayson.
@@TuaronBatman IS in a video game. And not only in the very beginning, where he fought Ra’s There are also some flashbacks with him and than his resurrection and second death. And both times he actually dies like a hero
The only thing about this show worth anything was Misha Collins. Like who in the hell were most of these people? If this had been a show revolving around Dick Grayson, Jason Todd, Tim Drake, Barbara Gordon, Cassandra Cain and Stephanie Brown it could have worked.
Honestly, I think most of the cast (outside of the main guy) were fairly decent, the issue was the show just...didn't know who it wanted those characters to be or what it wanted to do with them. It seemed to be figuring it out toward the end, a second season might have even reached "decent" or even "good", though unlikely.
It pisses me off that now we won't get another try at a DC show forever because they think that the property was the problem, when in reality it's the changes they made to the property that put everyone off.
Thing is, I actually love the idea of a "Batman's dead, what happens to Gotham" premise. Watching the batfamily have to pick up the slack, watching Dick Greyson slide into a role he doesn't want, etc. I think there's something there.
This could have been a neat Elseworlds story. Have the Court take out Batman very early in his career and see how Dick Grayson rises to become a hero without Bruce. Heck Dick has connections to the Court in the comics, explore that.
Gotham Knights’ Robin clearly suffered from the Harry Osborn curse from Spider-Man 3, which is when the producers go “Oh damn, we forgot to make a costume for the character, how much is left in the budget? $270? Okay. Go to the paintball store.”
i have no idea why CW is even allowed to touch DC still. every once of their shows is just soap opera nonsense (with the terrible acting you expect) with a dollar store superhero paintjob. straight hot garbage.
Why can't we finally get a Batman show that is actually about the caped crusader himself. The closest we've got in recent times was with Gotham, but even then Batman was no where to be seen until the finale and the show was acutally about Jim Gordon, and before Gotham was the Adam West series. PLEASE WB/DC Give the fans what they want!!! #31
Because WB wants to save Batman for their movies. They want to keep him "special." I would love a Batman HBO TV show with long story arcs, but it seems like we're never going to get that. Superman they didn't care about as much, so he could show up in Supergirl and have his own series.
@@freddied8479Exactly. It's not exactly a secret. WB is keeping Batman for full-length films. I doubt it'll ever change, but if it does it'll be huge news and there will be no ambiguity about it.
Misha Collins is great I was surprised he got this role. He was the reason I was watching the show. He is a great actor, I need to finish the show when I can
I didn't actually research it, but I am under the impression that they knew it wasn't getting renewed and had enough time to craft a finale that tied up loose ends. Either that or the writers were smart enough to craft a finale that tied up loose ends *and* left the door cracked for a season 2 if they got a surprise renewal.
I mean, people don't even need an excuse for the absence of Batman, Gotham is a big city so it makes sense that most times you will not stumble on Batman casually, as he is probably doing his own things, he doesn't need to be noted or seen all the times, there's really no need for an excuse at all.
They just wanted to pair Bruce Wayne with a female Joker. But didn't realize that there is an alternative universe where Thomas Wayne becomes Batman and Martha becoming the Joker after the death of Bruce. Now that would have been interesting.
Speaking of cancelled CW DC shows, I feel like you need to do a video on Naomi, which in my opinion is worse than Gotham Knights and the superhero show that no one asked for.
1. Naomi was clearly an undercooked diversity project because white executives realized they neglected a billion dollar audience who shifted their focus to Tyler Perry because mainstream media refuses to air TV shows that cater to black audiences. All this diversity quota nonsense was a response to Comcast, AT&T, Viacom, CBS, Newscorp and Disney (6 companies own everything) losing Monopoly on entertainment. They don't actually care and giving black audiences the BARE MINIMUM.
2. If they want to introduce black characters to black audiences then hire respected directors for an Anthology series to get to know the comic properties. DC Edition S1 E1: Thunder&Lightning directed by Spike Lee S1 E2: VIXEN written by Michaela Coel (Chewing Gum, I May Destroy You) S1 E3 NAOMI written by Quinta Brunton (Abbott Elementary, A Black Lady Sketch Show) S1 E4 NUBIA written by Gina Prince Bythewood (The Woman King) S1 E5 BUMBLEBEE written by Issa Rae (Insecure) S1 E6 ROCKET written by Donald Glover (Atlanta) S1 E7 GREEN LANTERN -Jo Mullein version written by Jordan Peele (Get Out) S1 E8 NATASHA IRONS (animated episode) written by Ava Duvernay (When They See Us) S1 E9 ONYX directed by Hiro Murai (Atlanta) S1 E10 FATALITY written by Misha Green (Lovecraft Country)
I'm not sure I completely agree with that first point. Like BTAS started off with Manbat as the villain. And it used plenty of lesser-known and original characters. My issue with using the court is that like most Batman villains, they are made to reflect and challenge an aspect of him. Bruce Wane is a rich man with a lot of resources and influence within Gotham. The owls are a group of rich people with collectively even more resources and influence in Gotham than he has. This is what makes them work thematically, something you lose when they aren't going against Batman.
I mean you could, if you used a son of his having to deal with them , if you have a decent sense how to integrate that themes in the show. But only then. I agree heavy that you can get out there. Look at the brave and the bold, that embraces the not best known characters play off batman. The show is really fun and does get surprising emotional and sincere, but it also has out ther villains in spades. Ther are pretty good out ther batman villains to use, or funny ones. Like calender man deserves his place in the sun. or clock king, whom made arrow work with a bit adapting. Adapt calender man! Also arrow might be the best live action batman show? beside person of interest. which is just nolan using a bit batman characters as inspiration, but they have the batman voice, ha. great show, and arrow is, i liked it. the lost sister jumped the shark, so good it ended.
I'm fairly sure Hollywood writers could still use the original themes of power and wealth in 2023, except this time by using the Court of Owls as a heavy-handed strawman to attack white people.
They're also shrouded in mystery and most of the first part of the Court of Owls storyline is Batmans denial of their existence. Then there's Lincoln March who reveals himself to be Bruce Wayne's illegitimate brother. Whether or not he's telling the truth is never confirmed and we're left with little information of the Court itself
I'm sure they only used super obscure characters so they could get away with botching them. Either that or they couldn't get the rights to characters people actually knew.
More likely the rights were tied up with other movies/shows, so they could either A) make expies or "successors" like Batwoman kept trying to do, or B) make distant references to the characters that they couldn't get the rights to.
@@Crisis-Comics Arrow always had the problem that they had to write out characters when they were used in movies (Deathstroke and Waller/the Suicide Squad, most notably), so maybe they thought it was a good idea to use super obscure characters they'd never have to have that problem with?
It would've been better if it WAS Tim Drake. 1. It could adapt things from his Red Robin run, where Batman is missing/presumed dead. 2. He's a better character and at least a bit recognizable. 3. He has one of the easier personalities to adapt 4. Has shared the Robin role with someone before, so you can keep Carrie. 5. Has a more layered backstory you can dig into across the show.
I love how whenever I heard about this show it was just people simping for Misha Collins. I remember seeing people trying to get the show a second season just so they could see the man again. I never heard a lick of acknowledgement of anyone else or story.
"....the man again" Bruh, I am having flashbacks from Arkham Subreddit; just by seeing this word being used in Batman-related(abeit, very loosely) context.
One night I decided to play Gotham Knights while I watched Gotham Knights. About a half hour in I decided to keep watching Doom Patrol. I just couldn't get into it and I love Legends of Tomorrow
Legends was good until like last couple seasons, heck couldn't finish the last season. I only have watched 1st season of Doom patrol, did like it, either heard that season 3 is abysmal bad though.
@@PureMaddnessOneI think the second time Legends gave a star a new character rather than write them out was about where it started to go bad. Certainly by the time Constantine was written out. As for Doom Patrol...I enjoyed most seasons, but the whole "characters don't exactly grow, keep cycling through the same arc" started to drive me up the wall, and the gimmick of Brendan Fraser being an asshole robot just didn't cut it anymore.
I really want Misha to get another DC role. If not as Two-Face, then can we at least have him as someone like Jim Corrigan, or Harvey Bullock? Give the man something, he's clearly good at it, even in shit products. Also, Duella working with the good guys does hearken back to her pre-Flashpoint self, something I've wanted for a while, so that's kind of fun. Oh, and Cluemaster is a cool villain, and when used right can be just as good as the bigger names. Unfortunately, good writers tend not to use villains seen as lower tier characters as anything other than jokes, which sucks when so many have great potential (Cluemaster, Killer Moth, the Cavalier, Crazy Quilt, Ventriloquist and Scarface, etc.).
How ironic that the Gotham Knights game while flawed is better than this CW show with the same name with horrible characters. Also, who the f*** is Turner?!
Having Harper and Stephanie being the exact same, is a bit of a shame honestly. I know they're similar to a point as well in the comics. But I don't get why Steph is being portrayed here as a rich girl. Or at least, she dresses like one. When she's from the same kind of status as Harper is. She's also streetsmart. Incredibly stubborn, and very empathetic as well. She often takes care of Harper. So seeing her going against her in this show, is a bit strange. (And their romance as well, honestly.)
Absolutely this. This is what annoys me so much about the show. Stephanie Brown is NOT a rich girl stereotype (which she 100% is in this, I've not watched the whole thing, but there's clips on RUclips of Harper calling Steph out for being so rich and so privileged and being a trust fund kid). Which is just bizarre, because Steph coming from a working class family was a really big point in the comics. The contrast between her and Tim Drake being wealthy, the fact that her Mum struggled to make ends meet, etc. Even as Batgirl in college, they intentionally drew her as only ever having a pad and paper while ever other kid had laptops, to highlight her lack of wealth. She's also not (usually) a genius. Steph's 'superpower' is her morality and her stubbornness, in my opinion. That she always tries really hard, whether or not she has the actual ingrained talent or not. She's one of my favourite characters because in terms of being a superhero, she earns everything she has. Without any natural gifts. Every other Bat character tends to be the 'best ever' at something, the best detective, the best gymnast, etc. But Steph is just an ordinary person who's quite good at gymnastics and morally knows what her father does is wrong because it's OBVIOUSLY wrong. She doesn't even need some epic origin story, she just saw him doing bad things and decided she should do something about it. This seemed to COMPLETELY miss the point. They seem to be aware that she occasionally hacks in the New 52 and her FATHER was meant to be a genius, and that's it.
I am sooo sick if Batman shows without Batman. If there can be live action Superman shows actually about Superman, you would think they could pull off a show about the Batman characters that at least features him in a prominent role. Which is especially strange as many of these shows have a Bruce Wayne or brief Batman scenes but never just fully commit to Batman as a character active in the story.
The dubbing of Misha Collins since he couldnt' move his mouth in makeup is so hilariously bad, too be fair Court of Owls was pretty big and known in the comics.
Please, I’m BEGGING for a Harvey or Duela video, the only reason I tried the show was Misha and the only reason I stayed through the end is the both of them. The saddest effect of the shows writing is that we’ll never get to see them reunite or get any more of their relationship besides Harvey… *spoiler Killing Duela’s Mom for betraying her. Does the Two Face side want to protect Duela like Harv? Did he feel any fatherly love towards Duela or was it just an excuse to kill someone? Would she have been able to save him? We’ll never know!
I get so tired of people who think Batman has to be in every show. i'm sick of Batman. I like seeing different spins on the City of Gotham. A place so bad it NEEDED a Batman.
person of interest has a not-batman, its the nolans post batman series, and great, and kinda having a lot of batman influences , just its the "man in suit" while good scifi drama fun.
Eh. Make a Bludhaven or Hub City show then. A Nightwing or Question solo series might rule, doing Batman styled stories and noir without the need for Batman himself and his villains, and showcasing more of the DC universe.
The court of owls are one of the best new Batman villains, nothing similar to The League of Shadows. They have just somehow butchered them in this series
The worst thing about it is that they wasted Misha Collins so much. He's such a great actor but there even tho he was good the script overall sucked so much even he couldn't save it
I feel like so many shows recently are planned to be original stories then just slap preestablished IP because no one would watch without it. We need more fans of something to make official works. Like the One Piece live action
I think the problem is the trend that stuff way easier gets greenlit if you can add in in whatever loose way to a franchise. And that the current holders want to use ip, and cooperations are risk avoidant mostly. I think a lot of them would be way better without the franchise connection being its own thing, or at least more forgivable, but that trend that probably a lot is redone as loose franchise series , it has to be an anoying trend to cooperate risk avoidence. Also can we get funny batman again, not just daaark and brooody, batman, or at least fun broody batman :(
Maybe just me, but they should’ve given Karie Her big-ass Velma glasses and ginger hair. I don’t really care that they changed her ethnicity, but the goofy glasses and hair are a big part of her look. The actress does a good job, though. So that’s cool
That imbargo needs to be lifted How can you have the rights to make a show based on an intellectual property but not be allowed to use any of the characters involved in said property?
I always felt like something wasn’t really ever connecting with me about The Court of Owls. I think your description of them as budget League of Assassins perfectly helps to explain this. But I also think it’s because most Court of Owls stories involve some big twist that the Waynes were secretly corrupt the whole time, which I feel like is an embarrassingly weak, shock value-ass twist. I think The Batman did this sort of thing the best way you could, since you have the aspect of Bruce questioning his entire purpose and crusade, while turning it around to show that it isn’t actually true.
That's Fangface, or Jabberjaw, or Clue Club, or Funky Phantom, or Speed Buggy, or Captain Caveman, or- No, you know what, forget that. Captain Caveman is cooler than Scooby ever was. :P
How do you f up a show about the batfamily dealing with the loss of Batman? Surely that isn't difficult. Grayson returns from Bludhaven and struggles with the responsibility of now being the most senior member of the family. Damian Wayne struggles with the anger he feels after the death of his father, torn between what Bruce would have wanted, Red Hood offering to help Damian enact vengeance on his fathers killer and the lure of taking his rightful place in the League of Shadows. Tim Drake knows that he was Bruce's chosen successor, that he is supposed to take over the role of Batman in his absence, but he doesn't think he is ready. The Joker, having been locked up in Arkham at the time of Batman's death escapes, intent on meeting out vengeance against Batman's killer, tearing the city apart in the process. Etc etc.... how is that hard? 🤔
It’s sad how WB just doesn’t care about DC. A Gotham Knights movie staring Nightwing, Robin, Batgirl & Red Hood would have been awesome. Instead we got this trash.
As one of the three Stephanie Brown fans even I couldn't put myself through this. But it's not like the Steph of the show is anything like she is in the comics anyway.
I feel like the Batgirl role is cursed, so that only Babs can get proper live action adaptations. Like neither Cass nor Steph had a good live action portrayal, with both of them not getting to have any of their Superhero identities AND not even slightly reflecting their characters. I love both of them, it just pains me to not have a good version of them. But there is still hope with Gunns Batman movie. They should at least be able to get in a cameo for the two.
If they wanted to have a show where Batman died why not focus on Batgirl and the other robins and how they cope with the loss of their adoptive father, why make boring c list teen angst? No wonder the CW is dying
I agree with almost everything you said in this video aside from the Court of Owls being a lesser version of the League of Assassins. They should be allowed to have their own identities as they do have differences
Ok I understand that this show is bad but the court of owls is nowhere near a ripoff of the league of shadows 2:22 they might even be better villains in some ways
They really fcked this up insanely with how many good obscure characters they had they could have made incredibly good show. It’s insane how Titan was actually better LMAO, LIKE WHAT
This has the Velma problem where despite their diverse cast, they treat certain groups really poorly. I'm Pansexual, but I don't like a show where all straight people seem cringe. I'm not a parent, but I'd love to see parents that give a shit about their kids. They are things shows like The Owl House do really well. Hate sinks in that show are few and far in between, and when there are villains, there's at least some reason they are doing evil. You knew Belos was irredeemable, but not evil just for the sake of it; he thought he was saving the world. And for every Odalia, you still had a Carmilla who was really supportive of her daughter. A show that enjoyable makes me wonder: If kids shows can be that compelling, why do adult shows struggle so much?
I forgot this existed and will never watch it but I will say whether you are talking about this or that completely underrated game of the same name. The argument that a Batman thing without Batman is inherently bad I hard disagree with. batman isn't even ny favorite hero IP and i prefer marvel over DC but there's no denying out of anyone batman has the most sidekicks with the most potential for a show with that concept and budget. hell it might be beating a dead horse but A show about jason todd becoming red hood and struggling with if he wants to be more a villain, a hero, or something in-between would work easily in this budget. give him a leather jacket with a spray painted on bat and a custom Red motorcycle helmet and 2 guns. done. I also maintain the game should have been Gotham Knight (singular) and been about Jason as well as Batman is gone he steps up to save gotham but still with his more lethal methods
It's weird, but the way I describe CW superhero shows is "shows for teenage girls" The melodrama, the focus on relationships, love triangles, hookups, the bad action, the lol XD potato humour, the general lack of masculinity in 99% of the characters, the lack of anything actually mature, very naive morality, weird sexual tension in most scenes, the amount of very pretty/sexy/cute superheroines...
I've had more satisfaction from a 5 minute youtube batman motion comic than any TV product. Because charaters. Because story. Because of art. It's about how deeply we can relate to the superpower characters.
I always wish shows like this got additional seasons to try and iron out the kinks. I thought it was an interesting disaster that could have led to something. Gotham started out awful but reall y got good in later seasons. It was still messy, but I still loved Gotham.
*Gotham* season 1 might have been tonally different from the following 4 seasons, but it was far from awful... Robin Lord Taylor was the break-out star as the Penguin, the "mostly-villainous-co-protagonist"... The mob war between Carmine Falcone and Sal Maroni (both wonderfully played by John Doman & my man David Zayas, who got to keep on their beef that start in the show *Oz* ) was a great way to start off the story, in the "chaos is a ladder" kinda way. The life at the GCPD precinct was never boring thanks to future Riddler, played by another break-out star in Cory Michael Smith Anthony Carrigan's Victor Zsasz also became a quick fan favorite, which gave his career a major boost. Young Bruce Wayne and youngish Alfred Pennyworth were really good since day one, and Selina Kyle hanging around Bruce was really cute. And the show got some extra hype online when "that" clip of Jérôme Valeska started making the rounds on youtube and starved Joker fans were overjoyed (that was in 2014, waaaay before the "Joker saturation" was a thing) and Cameron Monaghan got a whole bunch of storylines in the show thanks to that one performance in season 1 that got the DC fans pumped up. I remember when *Suicide Squad* came out in 2016, and Jared Leto's Joker got a pretty bad reception, the show *Gotham* was alive and well (ended in 2019) and many people called Jérôme/Jéremiah "the real live action Joker right now" What I mean is that even if *Gotham* had some issues => -I like Jim Gordon, but he's a bit too vanilla for a main character, even if it's not up to Turner's level of vanilla... -There were lots of people who didn't like Fish Mooney because of the actress, but since I didn't know who Jada was before I watched that show, I had no bias, but still found her a tad annoying, even if Butch Gilzean's pure devotion to her was cute; when that guy loves a gal, he'll do anything for her - the "villain of the week/police procedure" formula was thankfully ended quickly, in favor of longer storylines, but that does mean that some of the season 1 episodes are a bit skippable, while later on if you missed one episode, good luck figuring out who f**ked who over and over what. ... however I kinda liked that in season 5, (sometimes when they had extra time/budget to make a couple more episodes to pad out the short season), they had Jim and Harvey partner up like the good ol' days for a couple of creepy self-contained episodes like the one with Jane Cartwright (aka Jane Doe in her first live action incarnation), or the one with Mother and Orphan, which was kinda spooky... *TL;DR* Gotham was a good show with lots of solid episodes even in its first season, while Gotham Knights was a bad show with a couple good elements here and there, but nothing that made me crave a second season. The CW was so desperate to make money out of their DC deal that they gave friggin' *Batwoman* a second season even _after_ the main actress, Ruby Rose, called it quits. GM would have surely gotten one hadn't it been right when CW was cutting anything off that wasn't reality TV and crap like that... they cancelled the vastly superior *Stargirl* (compared to bottom of the barrel shows like Batwoman & Gotham Knights) after only 3 seasons, and they only relented on cancelling *Superman & Lois* season 4 after a pretty big internet outrage over the whole thing. Oh well. At least the Arrowverse will end in 2024 with a good finale season of *Superman & Lois* , right? They can't afford to F that one up like the last seasons of *The Flash* which only had one good episode in it (you guys know the one). rant over
It's incredible that there are now 2 things called Gotham knights with the court of owls that use them super poorly
No just things
But rather "commercial products"
Products without a soul
I like the game it was a fun play
@@katdoctorcosplaythe game definitely had more genuine intent.
@@KJ_1810 Much more love of the characters too
If I had a nickel for every time that happened.
I'd have 2, but it weird it happened twice
“This is diet Riverdale in a big old bowl of Smallville Oops All Stupid.”
Only the finest for the CW crowd.
Ahh, the CW crowd...
The fine folks who ruined "Arrow" after the 2nd season by banging Berlanti and Co.over the head with a sledgehammer that had the word "OLICITY" sand blasted into it...
Though I suppose the studio is just as much (if not more so) to blame as those brain-dead "shippers" are.
Things just went downhill from there, as they double, triple, and QUADRUPLED down... ruining "The Flash", "Supergirl", and even "Legends of Tomorrow" as well... all three of which were actually fairly good during their early seasons.
Oh well... what could have been...
bit confused do people actually hate smallville? I thought it was decent especially for early 2000s tv
@@Sainttommond4852
It game us a pretty awesome and decent Lex Lutor.
@@thisisnotachannel see they listened to the shippers for fucking olicity but everyone wanting supercorp got shafted. only reason why i watched them ruin lena's character for so long was to see if they'd give in but no one main lesbian couple in dc was all we were getting even if kara and lena had more romantic tension with each other than any one of their love interests.
CW needs to give the DCU a break they played it out over the last 10 years with the arrow verse. That show caught lightning in a bottle and is unlikely to be repeated the flash fell off half way through it's run.
“He called me his little Robin” line was so cringe. Never in a million years can i see Batman say something like that
The killing joke adaptation bruce would
I fr threw up in my mouth a lil
Didn't batman call Robin his little soldier in the dark knight returns??
@@-dfh-866soldier can make you sound tougher
I mean, All-Star Batman did but… well… we all know how bad All-Star Batman is.
its crazy how they used 31 batman characters and not one of them is done well
It’s kind of like the terrible TV show version of Baskin Robins 🍨 🍦
@@albertosaurschannel6946underrated as hell 😂😂😂
@@albertosaurschannel6946you need 32 flavours. Atleast according to Question
Bro…Two-Face was done good.
@@albertosaurschannel6946 HEY Baskin Robins isn't that bad
I still love that WB Montreal had to go out of their way to tweet that this show was in no way related to their Gotham Knights game 🤣
"Look our game is bad but it's not THAT bad"
This is like making a show about the Ninja Turtles without the turtles
I'm so tempted to make a joke about a certain so called scooby doo show But I will just make myself angry
Teenage mutant ninjas ? I'd watch that.
So just teenage ninjas then?
Well yeah duh
@@plantainsame2049by any change is it named after the nerd of the group
The Court of Owls are real and good Batman villains, they were just portrayed horribly I assume.
31
Yes. Also stuff that usually doesn’t have Batman in it doesn’t do good except Titans
No they really did it dirty
@@MaXiUmImPuLsEyeah, but even titans has Bruce Wayne and Batman villains in it
@@lukelapenskie3694 oh I never watched it so idk
"Tails u live, Heads you Don't." What the fuck? This is the easiest line for Two-Face in the world "Heads you Live, Tails you Die"
Lol I was immediately titling my head thinking how they could fuck up or reverse something so simple? Literally every other Two Face says Heads you live, tails..... Not so lucky.
i’m so mad they made steph rich and basically tim
a big part of her character is her family. her mother is a nurse and a drug addict. her dad is a criminal.
she’s smart, but not the way Tim is smart. she’s untrained and bruce doesn’t *trust her.*
if she’s in an adaptation, she needs to be in outs with the bat family of the show.
Batman dying in Yamcha Pose with the superhero-equivalent of his pants around his legs before Two Face is even a thing is wild.
That’s why Gotham did so well because it was an origin story rather than this hot mess
Seriously. There was plenty to criticize "Gotham" for. But "Gotham Knights" makes it look like Breaking Bad.
Gotham has some good and bad moments, some that maybe they rushed it in too much and rather have saved if for a sequel series, but it was better then this tbh, but I do love to see a continuation of Gotham as Batman's Year One but as as series tbh, and build it up until he becomes Batman fully, so yeah
Also gotham is fun, and the villains are the real stars, thats why it works.
That and getting a sense of campy fun with a soap opera with a lot batman villains. And gordon is solid enough, and harvey. And interesting character developement. i even liked barbra after she went villain.
They got also joker right, all 2 of them.
One thing i like about gotham was making catwomen and batman love interest prior to their custom escaped. One bad thing was poor commish gordon love life. I just cant see him having batgirl with the way his love live went and came.
Will have loved a Batman tv series after Gotham 🦇🦇
I like the theory that WB _can’t_ use Batman himself in a TV show because of rights issues stemming back to the Adam West show. It just… fits so well and makes everything they’ve done since Smallville make sense.
Smallville wasn't the good either but teenagers aren't known for liking things for quality. Smallville = Twilight for boys
@@suezcontours6653 Oh no, the quality’s got nothing to do with it. Everyone demanded to see Batman on Smallville, but the producers were never allowed. The theory goes that Fox still owns the Batman TV rights thanks to the Adam West show, which is why you have all these series set in Gotham City but without Batman. Even _Gotham,_ allegedly part of a deal WB and Fox made in order to secure the ‘66 series DVD rights, wasn’t allowed to use the actual Batman until literally the last shot.
I am pretty sure that it's basically confirmed because they literally just made Green Arrow their own version of Batman and gave him all of his rouge's gallery as well like Ra's Al Ghoul, Deathstroke, Deadshot, Fire Fly, Talia, Nyssa, etc. Except they kept flip flopping if Oliver should kill or not because I am guessing they were trying to emulate the fact that Batman did kill in the first few issues he showed up in the comics but eventually stopped.
It's honestly wild to think that Batman can't have a live action show centered around him but we have gotten 3 Superman based shows (Smallville, Supergirl, Superman & Lois) where he shows up and their is no issues despite him arguably being more famous than Batman.
@@ricniks4619 It’s crazy how many things happen because of licensing deals rather than creative choice. Lawyers decided that Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch were both X-Men AND Avengers characters, so the twins’ movie rights were split. The MCU got to keep Wanda but their Pietro died after one film, while the FoX-Men’s Peter was in three movies but had an unnamed, noticeably younger sister.
Oh, and the Venom, Morbius, Kraven, and Madam Web movies? They’re being made exclusively because if Sony doesn’t release a new live action film based on Spider-Man every few years, they’ll lose the rights. But when they went to Marvel Studios to reboot Spidey into the MCU, part of that deal was that Sony can’t actually use Spider-Man _himself_ in their movies. So they’re left making films of increasingly-obscure side-characters.
@@DrFranklynAnderson Oh believe me I know about licensing deals when it comes to Superhero movies far too well. Remember when FOX kept making Fantastic Four movies that were shit because they didn't intend for it to be good or comic accurate they just made them so Marvel wouldn't get the rights back?.
This show completely wasted Misha Collins. That's criminal 😤
Misha is such a great actor and I believe he can be an amazing two face. Sucks this is the show he was put on
He also what kept supernatural as going ok as it did, with incredible range. ok supernatural has a great support cast, but he did add a loot to keep its as ok as it did.
Sucks he wasnt in a bette show, or jokers daughter.
Worst two-face ever
Agreed....I think his voice for the character was closer to his Castiel voice more then Heath ledger but I can see what he means kinda too it a combination of the 2
@@marocat4749Cass is the best character on Supernatural IMO.....he had so much character growth, development and plot twists. I admit I fell off at the end, I stopped watching when Sam and Dean's mom came back to live and was damn near younger then her kids they lost me. I need to go back and watch those last 2 seasons though I committed to like 14 or 14 before that I gotta finish it, fingers crossed they stick the landing and hopefully Cass has a good role in the ending. I've somehow managed to dodge spoilers to this day but I don't expect a good ending for the brothers, hunters don't have IRAs or retirement plans.
Cluemaster has a cool role in a New 52 series where he's able to orchestrate a plan and Batman never suspects him because he's running a group of D-tier villains who are able to wreak havoc while Batman follows the big names, but if your show doesn't really have Batman or the big names that doesn't exactly work.
Spoilers of Batman Eternal if anyone cares
Too many people slept on Batman Eternal, but it did things this show couldn’t even dream of. It was the perfect mix of obscure and big names working in tandem. Batman isn’t even the focus point, but instead the connecting piece. The entire bat family was brought to the foreground as they fought this cavalcade of Batman’s fears and enemies, all the while Snyder introduces three new characters that are still around today. It blended the horror, the magic, the early days of street crime, the super villians, the entire Batman mythos into a fun and engaging tale. It gets a fucking unironic Chefs Kiss!
Hell, it even introduced my favorite new character, Blue Bird / Harper Row; who was everything this show wanted and couldn’t make. A conscious new age character who understood and represented new and progressive ideas without that being all her character was. She was just a good prog character.
It also used the original version of “The Jokers Daughter” but she wore the man’s cut off face and was awesome!
Plus strapping Batman to the bat signal and carving the symbol into his chest is Top Tier petty bitch villain shit and it’s PEAK BATMAN! Clue Master got his shit back in blood.
@@Gus-n9u I ended up with a copy of the collection despite not being up to speed on modern DC or the extended Bat Family and I quite enjoyed it.
Minor spoilers but we've already been talking about it: I would have preferred they actually stuck with the Cluemaster reveal though because they pulled another "It was me the whole time" on top of him that made it lose its impact, especially since with my limited comics knowledge I didn't know who the guy was.
@@nathaniel201 no, you are not alone in this idea.
That man was Lincoln March, a character who is Harvey Dent-Esq and a major player in Gotham Politics.
In the court of the owls comic, near the end, it is revealed that Lincoln has been controlled by the Court from birth to believe he is the long lost brother of Bruce and was sent to an orphanage by Martha Wayne who maybe wanted to get him back, but then died al a Batman’s Origin. Lincoln kills the entire court of owls and is the secret big bad of that saga in a fun little twist. This all happened in Batman the comic by the same author/ artist duo of Scott Snyder and Greg Capullo and was released only a year or two before Batman Eternal.
So if you were a fan and reading these linearly, this could have been a cool reveal for you….. which it was to many. However, Lincoln as a character didn’t have the same stat power that The Court of Owls had and was never really picked up again by the writers who would follow Snyder. And as such, the most common take about Batman Eternal is that it would have been cooler as a stand alone and that Lincoln didn’t really fit. But it wasn’t a stand alone story, it was one of the many comic lines that revolve around Batman and are connected to whatever current canon he is operating in.
Scott is viewed by many as being one of the seminal writers of the character Batman, held in line with the likes of Frank Miller and Grant Morrison and Jeph Loeb. He is by some, myself included, considered to be the best at writing Batman as The Detective and giving Gotham that Horror vibe it deserves. However, some are justifiably critical of how much he is a “comic book writer”, which doesn’t mean he is sexist or anything, quite the opposite infact, but instead it means that he does love BIG AND OUTLANDISH twists and “comic book” reveals and mix-em-ups. To me that’s part of his charm, but to some it can be too much, especially given how good he is at grounding the characters before going Whole Hog Comics. If you wish to see more of his work, he did the New 52 Run of Batman, as well as both the major events Dark Nights Metal and Dark Knight Death Metal. He was even allowed to write a non-canonical stand alone graphic novel that is HIS Batman’s definitive ending called The Last Knight on Earth, and it’s…. Wild.
(This writer Scott Snyder has no relation to Zach Snyder the director, BTW).
Fuck… sorry for rambling
Gotham cops were so stupid they thought Batman was beat to death by his untrained adopted son. Also, when Batbaby was rescuing a woman from the Court of Owls, they stopped in the middle of the forest and talked until an assassin stabbed her with a sword until she was killed to death. Instead of running, not walking away😮
They could have used Terry McGuinness, everybody seems to forget he exists and is viewed by the fandom as an adopted son of Bruce
He was reveled to be Bruce's cloned son
Terry McGinnis for the CW? Absolutely not, that character deserves respect. The cw would totally drop the ball.
@@homeostvsis and there's also the fact they probably wouldn't have the budget to neo-gotham though they could change it to where batman beyond takes place in a slightly futuristic version of modern day and heroes like batman,superman and wonder woman existed in the 40s or 50s.
@@jadenbryant9283 personally speaking, I think the best "Neo Gotham" that's been on screen was in Blade Runner 2049
They could have also used Helena Wayne or Duke Thomas as those are also his "robins" in the comics, but for reason, they chose to create a less interesting Dick Grayson.
I really hope Micha gets another shot at playing Harvey Dent. He was really the shining light of this
I'd love something with cameron Monahan as Joker and Misha Collins as Dent.
@@JMel2012 Upvote for Monahan. He was fantastic on Gotham, great blend of Ledger's dangerous killer and Romero's silliness
They did him so dirty with that make up and he was doing so well with his acting.
Well, it *is* Misha Collins, after all.
If I had a penny for every piece of media called Gotham knights that didn’t have Batman in it I’d have 3 Pennies
This one, the video game...do you already have a penny?
@@Tuaron yes I’m penny plunderer
Im sorry to be the bearer of bad news but i think you might be dead bud
This is lowkey peak comedy. Thank you both.
@@TuaronBatman IS in a video game. And not only in the very beginning, where he fought Ra’s
There are also some flashbacks with him and than his resurrection and second death. And both times he actually dies like a hero
The only thing about this show worth anything was Misha Collins. Like who in the hell were most of these people? If this had been a show revolving around Dick Grayson, Jason Todd, Tim Drake, Barbara Gordon, Cassandra Cain and Stephanie Brown it could have worked.
In short, the show was essentially Riverdale set in Gotham, which was still terribly executed.
Well thats just gotham [the show].
@@jadenbryant9283 don't insult Gotham 😂
I've never even heard about this Show existing and I think that speaks volumes about the quality😂
I can explain what happened: Tyler Perry.
@@suezcontours6653OH GOD
Olivia Rose Keegan (Duela) and Misha Collins were definitely the highlights but completely wasted on this show.
Honestly, I think most of the cast (outside of the main guy) were fairly decent, the issue was the show just...didn't know who it wanted those characters to be or what it wanted to do with them. It seemed to be figuring it out toward the end, a second season might have even reached "decent" or even "good", though unlikely.
This show could’ve been saved if they had Penny Plunderer
true. He’s the greatest Batman villain who ever existed.
Only way to have saved the show honestly.
@@MSTUD10SNot Kite-Man? NOT KITE-MAN!?
@josebencomo2385 Kite-Man's not a villain per se, he's more of a LEGEND
@@josebencomo2385 Does Batman have a giant Kite in the Bat-Cave? No he has the giant penny
It pisses me off that now we won't get another try at a DC show forever because they think that the property was the problem, when in reality it's the changes they made to the property that put everyone off.
what about the penguin show
@@squishking is that out yet?
@@JadedJester739 no but it’s being released in the fall 👍
Misha Collins deserves a second chance as two face, he's perfect for the role
Thing is, I actually love the idea of a "Batman's dead, what happens to Gotham" premise. Watching the batfamily have to pick up the slack, watching Dick Greyson slide into a role he doesn't want, etc. I think there's something there.
There need some better options than just what the show brought to the viewers.
@@elperrodelautumo7511 The game, the game is a far better option
@@varisrevolver4061yeah, if you like equally bad options
This could have been a neat Elseworlds story. Have the Court take out Batman very early in his career and see how Dick Grayson rises to become a hero without Bruce. Heck Dick has connections to the Court in the comics, explore that.
If you want that then these writers are gonna have to stop hating everything Batman stands for
I can’t believe that 31 bats were used on set. So unbelievable.
Imagine if that would've gotten out to the press while filiming, they could have had a real disaster for Gotham City on their hands.
Bats have some of the most rabies out of any animal.
Wat @@Sue_Me_Too
31 exactly? That's an interesting number choice. We're sure it was 31 and not 30 or 32? XD
@@Indureignu don’t get it
The Court of Owls has been the best addition to Batman Mythos in decades.
and they constantly waste them like bro I LOVE THE COURT OF OWLS
Yeah, that was the one place here where I was like "Uhhhh, those aren't really C-listers, actually..."
True! But this shoe did them no justice
Nah, they’re trash.
ratio@@melvin4976
Gotham Knights’ Robin clearly suffered from the Harry Osborn curse from Spider-Man 3, which is when the producers go “Oh damn, we forgot to make a costume for the character, how much is left in the budget? $270? Okay. Go to the paintball store.”
i have no idea why CW is even allowed to touch DC still. every once of their shows is just soap opera nonsense (with the terrible acting you expect) with a dollar store superhero paintjob. straight hot garbage.
It's the only TV channel Warner owns besides various HBO channels
The only good ones were superman and Lois and Star girl and even they were only because they weren't produced by the CW
Why can't we finally get a Batman show that is actually about the caped crusader himself. The closest we've got in recent times was with Gotham, but even then Batman was no where to be seen until the finale and the show was acutally about Jim Gordon, and before Gotham was the Adam West series. PLEASE WB/DC Give the fans what they want!!!
#31
Because Gotham Knights isn't a Batman show
Because WB wants to save Batman for their movies. They want to keep him "special." I would love a Batman HBO TV show with long story arcs, but it seems like we're never going to get that. Superman they didn't care about as much, so he could show up in Supergirl and have his own series.
@@freddied8479Exactly. It's not exactly a secret. WB is keeping Batman for full-length films. I doubt it'll ever change, but if it does it'll be huge news and there will be no ambiguity about it.
@@mikeattard3543 Yeah unfortunately the only way we're getting a tv show is if the Batman movies are no longer making money at the box office.
@@mikeattard3543 okay but 10 years and 1 batman movie kekw
Misha Collins is great I was surprised he got this role. He was the reason I was watching the show. He is a great actor, I need to finish the show when I can
I don't see the heath ledger like it's kinda like just a twisted voice to me
@@silvertongue.242_99me either thats kinda just how misha sounds lol and hes been acting like that way before heath ledger played the joker
@@m3rku91 yeah true in a sinister way
I didn't actually research it, but I am under the impression that they knew it wasn't getting renewed and had enough time to craft a finale that tied up loose ends. Either that or the writers were smart enough to craft a finale that tied up loose ends *and* left the door cracked for a season 2 if they got a surprise renewal.
I can’t believe they found a way to make Batwoman feel high-quality by comparison
I loved Batwoman! I’m actually making a Manga based off if we got a season 4.
@@zdaladorsey1152🤢of course you enjoyed it. You’re probably a feminist, man hating, anime lover
@@zdaladorsey1152Yup, profile pic checks out
@@zdaladorsey1152Lol, that show was complete trash 😂
@@drewr1843 sorry you feel that way
I mean, people don't even need an excuse for the absence of Batman, Gotham is a big city so it makes sense that most times you will not stumble on Batman casually, as he is probably doing his own things, he doesn't need to be noted or seen all the times, there's really no need for an excuse at all.
They just wanted to pair Bruce Wayne with a female Joker. But didn't realize that there is an alternative universe where Thomas Wayne becomes Batman and Martha becoming the Joker after the death of Bruce. Now that would have been interesting.
Speaking of cancelled CW DC shows, I feel like you need to do a video on Naomi, which in my opinion is worse than Gotham Knights and the superhero show that no one asked for.
1. Naomi was clearly an undercooked diversity project because white executives realized they neglected a billion dollar audience who shifted their focus to Tyler Perry because mainstream media refuses to air TV shows that cater to black audiences. All this diversity quota nonsense was a response to Comcast, AT&T, Viacom, CBS, Newscorp and Disney (6 companies own everything) losing Monopoly on entertainment. They don't actually care and giving black audiences the BARE MINIMUM.
2. If they want to introduce black characters to black audiences then hire respected directors for an Anthology series to get to know the comic properties.
DC Edition
S1 E1: Thunder&Lightning directed by Spike Lee
S1 E2: VIXEN written by Michaela Coel (Chewing Gum, I May Destroy You)
S1 E3 NAOMI written by Quinta Brunton (Abbott Elementary, A Black Lady Sketch Show)
S1 E4 NUBIA written by Gina Prince Bythewood (The Woman King)
S1 E5 BUMBLEBEE written by Issa Rae (Insecure)
S1 E6 ROCKET written by Donald Glover (Atlanta)
S1 E7 GREEN LANTERN -Jo Mullein version written by Jordan Peele (Get Out)
S1 E8 NATASHA IRONS (animated episode) written by Ava Duvernay (When They See Us)
S1 E9 ONYX directed by Hiro Murai (Atlanta)
S1 E10 FATALITY written by Misha Green (Lovecraft Country)
Why can we just have black superheroes get their own TV show? What's the point of your idea? @@suezcontours6653
Y'all still whining about this show lol
@@LuffyBlack Naomi was disappointing because I am a fan of Ava Duvernay but she should stay away from Superhero genre. Keep to Award winning drama
I'm not sure I completely agree with that first point. Like BTAS started off with Manbat as the villain. And it used plenty of lesser-known and original characters. My issue with using the court is that like most Batman villains, they are made to reflect and challenge an aspect of him. Bruce Wane is a rich man with a lot of resources and influence within Gotham. The owls are a group of rich people with collectively even more resources and influence in Gotham than he has. This is what makes them work thematically, something you lose when they aren't going against Batman.
I mean you could, if you used a son of his having to deal with them , if you have a decent sense how to integrate that themes in the show. But only then.
I agree heavy that you can get out there. Look at the brave and the bold, that embraces the not best known characters play off batman. The show is really fun and does get surprising emotional and sincere, but it also has out ther villains in spades. Ther are pretty good out ther batman villains to use, or funny ones.
Like calender man deserves his place in the sun. or clock king, whom made arrow work with a bit adapting. Adapt calender man!
Also arrow might be the best live action batman show? beside person of interest. which is just nolan using a bit batman characters as inspiration, but they have the batman voice, ha. great show, and arrow is, i liked it. the lost sister jumped the shark, so good it ended.
I'm fairly sure Hollywood writers could still use the original themes of power and wealth in 2023, except this time by using the Court of Owls as a heavy-handed strawman to attack white people.
They're also shrouded in mystery and most of the first part of the Court of Owls storyline is Batmans denial of their existence. Then there's Lincoln March who reveals himself to be Bruce Wayne's illegitimate brother. Whether or not he's telling the truth is never confirmed and we're left with little information of the Court itself
I'm sure they only used super obscure characters so they could get away with botching them. Either that or they couldn't get the rights to characters people actually knew.
More likely the rights were tied up with other movies/shows, so they could either A) make expies or "successors" like Batwoman kept trying to do, or B) make distant references to the characters that they couldn't get the rights to.
@@Crisis-Comics Arrow always had the problem that they had to write out characters when they were used in movies (Deathstroke and Waller/the Suicide Squad, most notably), so maybe they thought it was a good idea to use super obscure characters they'd never have to have that problem with?
@@HighPingDrifter1fuck sake arrow itself was a batman show using green arrow characters instead of batman ones
Not surprised Misha as two face was a standout. He was great in Supernatural despite not being given much to do later on
This is the super hell he was sent to
It would've been better if it WAS Tim Drake.
1. It could adapt things from his Red Robin run, where Batman is missing/presumed dead.
2. He's a better character and at least a bit recognizable.
3. He has one of the easier personalities to adapt
4. Has shared the Robin role with someone before, so you can keep Carrie.
5. Has a more layered backstory you can dig into across the show.
I love how whenever I heard about this show it was just people simping for Misha Collins. I remember seeing people trying to get the show a second season just so they could see the man again. I never heard a lick of acknowledgement of anyone else or story.
Exactly his fans are insane
"....the man again"
Bruh, I am having flashbacks from Arkham Subreddit; just by seeing this word being used in Batman-related(abeit, very loosely) context.
One night I decided to play Gotham Knights while I watched Gotham Knights.
About a half hour in I decided to keep watching Doom Patrol.
I just couldn't get into it and I love Legends of Tomorrow
Legends was good until like last couple seasons, heck couldn't finish the last season. I only have watched 1st season of Doom patrol, did like it, either heard that season 3 is abysmal bad though.
@@PureMaddnessOneI think the second time Legends gave a star a new character rather than write them out was about where it started to go bad. Certainly by the time Constantine was written out. As for Doom Patrol...I enjoyed most seasons, but the whole "characters don't exactly grow, keep cycling through the same arc" started to drive me up the wall, and the gimmick of Brendan Fraser being an asshole robot just didn't cut it anymore.
@@Tuaron
To be fair he changes quite a bit with some hiccups along the way, like selling the team's stuff for an only fans girl but he tried
I really want Misha to get another DC role. If not as Two-Face, then can we at least have him as someone like Jim Corrigan, or Harvey Bullock? Give the man something, he's clearly good at it, even in shit products. Also, Duella working with the good guys does hearken back to her pre-Flashpoint self, something I've wanted for a while, so that's kind of fun. Oh, and Cluemaster is a cool villain, and when used right can be just as good as the bigger names. Unfortunately, good writers tend not to use villains seen as lower tier characters as anything other than jokes, which sucks when so many have great potential (Cluemaster, Killer Moth, the Cavalier, Crazy Quilt, Ventriloquist and Scarface, etc.).
How ironic that the Gotham Knights game while flawed is better than this CW show with the same name with horrible characters.
Also, who the f*** is Turner?!
I didn’t even know this show existed
Having Harper and Stephanie being the exact same, is a bit of a shame honestly. I know they're similar to a point as well in the comics. But I don't get why Steph is being portrayed here as a rich girl. Or at least, she dresses like one. When she's from the same kind of status as Harper is.
She's also streetsmart. Incredibly stubborn, and very empathetic as well.
She often takes care of Harper. So seeing her going against her in this show, is a bit strange. (And their romance as well, honestly.)
Absolutely this. This is what annoys me so much about the show. Stephanie Brown is NOT a rich girl stereotype (which she 100% is in this, I've not watched the whole thing, but there's clips on RUclips of Harper calling Steph out for being so rich and so privileged and being a trust fund kid). Which is just bizarre, because Steph coming from a working class family was a really big point in the comics. The contrast between her and Tim Drake being wealthy, the fact that her Mum struggled to make ends meet, etc. Even as Batgirl in college, they intentionally drew her as only ever having a pad and paper while ever other kid had laptops, to highlight her lack of wealth.
She's also not (usually) a genius. Steph's 'superpower' is her morality and her stubbornness, in my opinion. That she always tries really hard, whether or not she has the actual ingrained talent or not. She's one of my favourite characters because in terms of being a superhero, she earns everything she has. Without any natural gifts. Every other Bat character tends to be the 'best ever' at something, the best detective, the best gymnast, etc. But Steph is just an ordinary person who's quite good at gymnastics and morally knows what her father does is wrong because it's OBVIOUSLY wrong. She doesn't even need some epic origin story, she just saw him doing bad things and decided she should do something about it.
This seemed to COMPLETELY miss the point. They seem to be aware that she occasionally hacks in the New 52 and her FATHER was meant to be a genius, and that's it.
@@livalentine9441wasn’t she killed by Black Mask - but that got retconned - because she tried to take on something massive and way beyond her?
I am sooo sick if Batman shows without Batman. If there can be live action Superman shows actually about Superman, you would think they could pull off a show about the Batman characters that at least features him in a prominent role. Which is especially strange as many of these shows have a Bruce Wayne or brief Batman scenes but never just fully commit to Batman as a character active in the story.
Batman has a pretty large cast. Very large and very interesting. There's enough to have a show without him. It just needs to be done right
They've done it too many times and it's entirely pointless. They need to just do a Batman show with Batman.@@TTCreddy
You had me until court of owls league of assassin's comparison. The court has a HUGE comic implications and is pretty widely known.
Yes. I'm not a fan of the court but to say they are knock offs is nonsense
Court of Owls is one of the best retcons in all of comics, probably only surpassed by Magneto as a Holocaust survivor.
@@JamesSerapio absolutely!! That's why I was so turned off by the shitty comparison
The Court of owls was just more new 52 garbage
@@mcNuggetMuncher agreed
So they canceled Batgirl and release this instead. Great job WB Greeaat job. I am convinced that companies are allergic to money
The dubbing of Misha Collins since he couldnt' move his mouth in makeup is so hilariously bad, too be fair Court of Owls was pretty big and known in the comics.
I remember reading articles that this was canceled before it came out, but I guess that didn't stop them? Wild
Please, I’m BEGGING for a Harvey or Duela video, the only reason I tried the show was Misha and the only reason I stayed through the end is the both of them. The saddest effect of the shows writing is that we’ll never get to see them reunite or get any more of their relationship besides Harvey…
*spoiler
Killing Duela’s Mom for betraying her. Does the Two Face side want to protect Duela like Harv? Did he feel any fatherly love towards Duela or was it just an excuse to kill someone? Would she have been able to save him? We’ll never know!
I get so tired of people who think Batman has to be in every show. i'm sick of Batman. I like seeing different spins on the City of Gotham. A place so bad it NEEDED a Batman.
person of interest has a not-batman, its the nolans post batman series, and great, and kinda having a lot of batman influences , just its the "man in suit" while good scifi drama fun.
Eh. Make a Bludhaven or Hub City show then. A Nightwing or Question solo series might rule, doing Batman styled stories and noir without the need for Batman himself and his villains, and showcasing more of the DC universe.
What would you say to a Gotham Academy or Gotham by Midnight series?
The fact this show even got a first season, yet WB shut down the Batman Beyond movie before it was even pitched is wild.
The court of owls are one of the best new Batman villains, nothing similar to The League of Shadows. They have just somehow butchered them in this series
Think they confused Robin with the Spy Kids kid lol.
Two-Face, Joker’s Daughter and Cluemaster are the only characters I liked. Also the blimps. Why won’t the movies give us Gotham’s blimps?!
Best blimp cameos are from an animated movie: Batman vs TMNT
Porque una ciudad con dirigibles en el siglo xxi no tendría sentido
This just makes me think, what was the plan with Batman gonna be? Is he now dead in the Arrowverse? What really was the next step??
The worst thing about it is that they wasted Misha Collins so much. He's such a great actor but there even tho he was good the script overall sucked so much even he couldn't save it
The Court of Owls is NOT "an inferior League of Shadows" - it's a great idea of its own, but from what I saw of this show they just didn't do it well.
I had no idea this show existed in any way, this slipped completely past me
So many ways this could have gone but the South Park parody was spot on with the casting and writing choices.
I feel like so many shows recently are planned to be original stories then just slap preestablished IP because no one would watch without it. We need more fans of something to make official works. Like the One Piece live action
I think the problem is the trend that stuff way easier gets greenlit if you can add in in whatever loose way to a franchise. And that the current holders want to use ip, and cooperations are risk avoidant mostly.
I think a lot of them would be way better without the franchise connection being its own thing, or at least more forgivable, but that trend that probably a lot is redone as loose franchise series , it has to be an anoying trend to cooperate risk avoidence.
Also can we get funny batman again, not just daaark and brooody, batman, or at least fun broody batman :(
“He called me his little robin”
My first thought was: are you sure this isn’t criminal minds? Was Batman a child molester
Funny how batman dies without ever meeting 2 face >.> i mena 2 face is one of batman's main villians
I noticed that none of the episodes went past .5 in terms of viewership aside from the pilot, and the average was around point-31, Vee.
Curse you Vee, I had no idea this show existed before watching this, now I have to live with this knowledge
It's time for CW to get out of the superhero business. The heyday of the Arrowverse is over and they need to move on.
Why does Turner look like a vampire from Twilight?
"As the cities saviour, batman. But to me, he was just my dad"
*D E E P*
Maybe just me, but they should’ve given Karie Her big-ass Velma glasses and ginger hair. I don’t really care that they changed her ethnicity, but the goofy glasses and hair are a big part of her look. The actress does a good job, though. So that’s cool
I couldnt handle how dumb this show was. Also the batcave had 9 keyboards! Whyyy?
Vee putting that Employee of the Month reference made me love you even more.
A show with a dead Batman COULD’VE worked but you need like nightwing or someone to sort of fill those shoes
How can they use the court of owls in such a poor manor especially it being the first live action adaptation. Pisses me off
31, baby! (Also you cracked me up with that “Oops! All stupid!” comment. Great video, as always.)
Never in my life have I heard of fucking castiel playing 2 face wtf
That imbargo needs to be lifted
How can you have the rights to make a show based on an intellectual property but not be allowed to use any of the characters involved in said property?
We all know the real reason these shows fail everytime but studios refuse to change
I forgot about the party city batman mask 😂
I always felt like something wasn’t really ever connecting with me about The Court of Owls. I think your description of them as budget League of Assassins perfectly helps to explain this. But I also think it’s because most Court of Owls stories involve some big twist that the Waynes were secretly corrupt the whole time, which I feel like is an embarrassingly weak, shock value-ass twist. I think The Batman did this sort of thing the best way you could, since you have the aspect of Bruce questioning his entire purpose and crusade, while turning it around to show that it isn’t actually true.
I liked how The Batman handled it where Thomas Wayne did do something shady but was still ultimately a good person.
This is like making a scooby doo show without scooby doo
The sad thing is I know exactly what series you are talking about and I also wish it didn’t exist.
@@morganyoung3557 lmao that was intentional
Well that show exists.
That's Fangface, or Jabberjaw, or Clue Club, or Funky Phantom, or Speed Buggy, or Captain Caveman, or-
No, you know what, forget that. Captain Caveman is cooler than Scooby ever was. :P
How do you f up a show about the batfamily dealing with the loss of Batman? Surely that isn't difficult.
Grayson returns from Bludhaven and struggles with the responsibility of now being the most senior member of the family.
Damian Wayne struggles with the anger he feels after the death of his father, torn between what Bruce would have wanted, Red Hood offering to help Damian enact vengeance on his fathers killer and the lure of taking his rightful place in the League of Shadows.
Tim Drake knows that he was Bruce's chosen successor, that he is supposed to take over the role of Batman in his absence, but he doesn't think he is ready.
The Joker, having been locked up in Arkham at the time of Batman's death escapes, intent on meeting out vengeance against Batman's killer, tearing the city apart in the process.
Etc etc.... how is that hard? 🤔
It’s sad how WB just doesn’t care about DC. A Gotham Knights movie staring Nightwing, Robin, Batgirl & Red Hood would have been awesome. Instead we got this trash.
No wonder Nia wasn't in Ravens home Season 5-6. She was busy being robin and possibly groomed by batman.
First time I've seen a vidoe from this channel, but man you went all out on the outro nice one 🔥
As one of the three Stephanie Brown fans even I couldn't put myself through this. But it's not like the Steph of the show is anything like she is in the comics anyway.
I feel like the Batgirl role is cursed, so that only Babs can get proper live action adaptations. Like neither Cass nor Steph had a good live action portrayal, with both of them not getting to have any of their Superhero identities AND not even slightly reflecting their characters.
I love both of them, it just pains me to not have a good version of them.
But there is still hope with Gunns Batman movie. They should at least be able to get in a cameo for the two.
If they wanted to have a show where Batman died why not focus on Batgirl and the other robins and how they cope with the loss of their adoptive father, why make boring c list teen angst?
No wonder the CW is dying
I agree with almost everything you said in this video aside from the Court of Owls being a lesser version of the League of Assassins. They should be allowed to have their own identities as they do have differences
It had a pretty decent Two-Face though
thats because misha is great
My god is that Castiel as twoface 😭
Yes
Ok I understand that this show is bad but the court of owls is nowhere near a ripoff of the league of shadows 2:22 they might even be better villains in some ways
Dude, that Employee of the Month bit you put in the beginning was so unexpected and perfect 😂 my wife and I were just talking about that movie today
They really fcked this up insanely with how many good obscure characters they had they could have made incredibly good show.
It’s insane how Titan was actually better LMAO, LIKE WHAT
This has the Velma problem where despite their diverse cast, they treat certain groups really poorly. I'm Pansexual, but I don't like a show where all straight people seem cringe. I'm not a parent, but I'd love to see parents that give a shit about their kids. They are things shows like The Owl House do really well. Hate sinks in that show are few and far in between, and when there are villains, there's at least some reason they are doing evil. You knew Belos was irredeemable, but not evil just for the sake of it; he thought he was saving the world. And for every Odalia, you still had a Carmilla who was really supportive of her daughter. A show that enjoyable makes me wonder: If kids shows can be that compelling, why do adult shows struggle so much?
I forgot this existed and will never watch it but I will say whether you are talking about this or that completely underrated game of the same name.
The argument that a Batman thing without Batman is inherently bad I hard disagree with.
batman isn't even ny favorite hero IP and i prefer marvel over DC but there's no denying out of anyone batman has the most sidekicks with the most potential for a show with that concept and budget.
hell it might be beating a dead horse but A show about jason todd becoming red hood and struggling with if he wants to be more a villain, a hero, or something in-between would work easily in this budget.
give him a leather jacket with a spray painted on bat and a custom Red motorcycle helmet and 2 guns. done.
I also maintain the game should have been Gotham Knight (singular) and been about Jason as well as Batman is gone he steps up to save gotham but still with his more lethal methods
It's weird, but the way I describe CW superhero shows is "shows for teenage girls"
The melodrama, the focus on relationships, love triangles, hookups, the bad action, the lol XD potato humour, the general lack of masculinity in 99% of the characters, the lack of anything actually mature, very naive morality, weird sexual tension in most scenes, the amount of very pretty/sexy/cute superheroines...
I've had more satisfaction from a 5 minute youtube batman motion comic than any TV product. Because charaters. Because story. Because of art. It's about how deeply we can relate to the superpower characters.
League of owls not main stream?
I always wish shows like this got additional seasons to try and iron out the kinks. I thought it was an interesting disaster that could have led to something. Gotham started out awful but reall y got good in later seasons. It was still messy, but I still loved Gotham.
*Gotham* season 1 might have been tonally different from the following 4 seasons, but it was far from awful... Robin Lord Taylor was the break-out star as the Penguin, the "mostly-villainous-co-protagonist"...
The mob war between Carmine Falcone and Sal Maroni
(both wonderfully played by John Doman & my man David Zayas, who got to keep on their beef that start in the show *Oz* )
was a great way to start off the story, in the "chaos is a ladder" kinda way.
The life at the GCPD precinct was never boring thanks to future Riddler, played by another break-out star in Cory Michael Smith
Anthony Carrigan's Victor Zsasz also became a quick fan favorite, which gave his career a major boost.
Young Bruce Wayne and youngish Alfred Pennyworth were really good since day one, and Selina Kyle hanging around Bruce was really cute.
And the show got some extra hype online when "that" clip of Jérôme Valeska started making the rounds on youtube and starved Joker fans were overjoyed
(that was in 2014, waaaay before the "Joker saturation" was a thing) and Cameron Monaghan got a whole bunch of storylines in the show thanks to that one performance in season 1 that got the DC fans pumped up.
I remember when *Suicide Squad* came out in 2016, and Jared Leto's Joker got a pretty bad reception, the show *Gotham* was alive and well (ended in 2019) and many people called Jérôme/Jéremiah "the real live action Joker right now"
What I mean is that even if *Gotham* had some issues =>
-I like Jim Gordon, but he's a bit too vanilla for a main character, even if it's not up to Turner's level of vanilla...
-There were lots of people who didn't like Fish Mooney because of the actress, but since I didn't know who Jada was before I watched that show, I had no bias, but still found her a tad annoying, even if Butch Gilzean's pure devotion to her was cute; when that guy loves a gal, he'll do anything for her
- the "villain of the week/police procedure" formula was thankfully ended quickly, in favor of longer storylines, but that does mean that some of the season 1 episodes are a bit skippable, while later on if you missed one episode, good luck figuring out who f**ked who over and over what.
... however I kinda liked that in season 5, (sometimes when they had extra time/budget to make a couple more episodes to pad out the short season), they had Jim and Harvey partner up like the good ol' days for a couple of creepy self-contained episodes like the one with Jane Cartwright (aka Jane Doe in her first live action incarnation), or the one with Mother and Orphan, which was kinda spooky...
*TL;DR* Gotham was a good show with lots of solid episodes even in its first season, while Gotham Knights was a bad show with a couple good elements here and there, but nothing that made me crave a second season.
The CW was so desperate to make money out of their DC deal that they gave friggin' *Batwoman* a second season even _after_ the main actress, Ruby Rose, called it quits.
GM would have surely gotten one hadn't it been right when CW was cutting anything off that wasn't reality TV and crap like that... they cancelled the vastly superior *Stargirl* (compared to bottom of the barrel shows like Batwoman & Gotham Knights) after only 3 seasons, and they only relented on cancelling *Superman & Lois* season 4 after a pretty big internet outrage over the whole thing.
Oh well.
At least the Arrowverse will end in 2024 with a good finale season of *Superman & Lois* , right? They can't afford to F that one up like the last seasons of *The Flash* which only had one good episode in it (you guys know the one).
rant over