The thing that surprises me most is how well these disparate classes mesh flavor-wise; it almost tells a story. At 1st level, you're a typical tribal warrior. At 3rd level, you learn how to summon the spirits of your ancestors to aid you in battle. At 7th level, you forge a bond with the ghost of a legendary hero of your tribe who fights by your side. At 11th level, you're getting older and becoming more of a shaman - spirits watch over you when you sleep (Alarm), they translate for you (Comprehend Languages), tell you stories about any magical artifacts you find (Identify), take hits for you in combat (Mirror Image), draw you into the spirit-realm (Blink), let you... breathe underwater (ok, the flavor is starting to come apart a bit, but whatever).
I read it as an "Ancestral Guardian" who, rather than being a tribal barbarian who reveres the ancestral spirits of their tribe, is a noble who conjures the great ancestors of their esteemed family history. While not particularly well-spoken, they are fairly well-educated. Their combat style ends up being tactical rather than emotionally driven, fighting in tandem with the great warriors from their noble lineage, and working more like a spellcaster in practice: Rather than charging directly into the fray, they send out their great ancestor and the ghosts of their noble past to protect their party while often staying back, themselves. They even go so far as to dabble in the arcane practices, using their education to learn magic suited for war to defend themselves from assault.
I wrote up a character who was part of a pacifistic clan of gnomes who were slaughtered and he was the only one that fought back and ended up being a sort of vessel for their vengeful spirits. It's a blast. This subclass has fantastic mechanics and flavor.
@@brannenpfister2579 true! or you can take eldritch adept/ be a deep gnome and get access to infinte nondetection (which isn't as good as armour of shadows but still) with the snirfneblin magic feat.
This build has some sweet role play potential. Instead of an echo use one of your ancestors. As you learn spells flavor them using your ancestors (I.E find familiar = a loyal pet of your ancestors or a shape shifting ancestor.) At level 6 have a meditation and meet an ancestor who berates you for being too reliant on strength. Have this ancestor train you during your down time and at level 3 he/she becomes your echo. Skies the limit 😄
I also really like the idea that the echo is your own soul manifesting as an ancestor. So, basically, it's what you WILL look like when your descendants call upon you as guardians.
I saw someone talk about reflavoring the Ancestral Guardian to be the Barbarian version of the Echo Knight. It is a phenomenal multiclass, and the two archetypes easily meld together
The fact that your echo can be manifest all the time really improves your defense in all combats. While your rages are limited, using mirror image and manifest echo during a combat where you aren’t raging means that there are suddenly 5 versions of you to target. The limitation on rages suddenly becomes less crippling
Ancestral Guardian is probably my favourite barbarian subclass. My favourite character to this day, is still my barbarian Alice. I made her a paranormal researcher who lets ghosts possess her when she rages to gain power from them. It was just this perfect moment of my ridiculous concept having the *perfect* subclass that made me love this particular barbarian path so much.
I just started up a rock gnome ancestral guardian with Spear+shield with polearm master and mobile and it's REALLY strong for a single class. I'm always using my bonus action and reaction and someone is always either not getting hit or taking less damage. Every single turn I make a difference. You move in, make 2 reckless rage attacks, and move away for free thanks to mobile. Your target can either attack your other allies in melee at disadvantage and half damage - which you can reduce further. Or they can eat 2 aoos from your companions and move toward you - at which point your polearm master attack goes off. If the monster you targeted doesn't come after you or hit your allies, you can use your Pam reaction attack on any other enemy that might approach you. The character ends up having advantage on every single save except con - which should be your highest stat and have proficiency. You also have advantage on Initiative and attacks. You'll be rolling advantage more often than you won't.
No, no, no. You've got it all wrong. It's their mobility that makes them excellent crowd control. What are the odds of them resisting four consecutive stunning strikes on the same turn?
@@AvengerAtIlipa it's not about the mobility! it's about the damage! in the four months since you posted this comment, surely the monk has killed that orc by now---oh. they haven't. four months of punching and hes alive Well, it's not about the damage...
@@elizabethviolet8448 Well, it isn't really about the damage either, since Unarmored Defense can give a Monk an AC of 20! Monks are among the best tanks in the game!
I am currently playing a halfling paladin. But my friend is an ancestral guardian centaur. I have mounted combatant. We never get hit. We do all the damage.
2 levels of War Wizard are just amazing for any martial class that doesn't have a good use of its reaction, or just wants to shore up weak saves. Plus all the great rituals.
Looking back at this now, I picked up on one thing that makes it plain as day why the ability score change in Tasha’s was such a good thing. You wanted a halfling and felt you couldn’t cause it didn’t work as well as variant human would with the ability to put your stats where you wanted. I’m glad that doesn’t have to be a consideration now.
Damn, this is a great build. I thought I was being clever with my ancestral guardian3/clockwork soul 6+ armor of agethis build, but this is really a great concept, meshing solid mechanics and tactics. My only problem is that I refuse to multiclass more than 2 classes on principle, and I dont use crit role material. But otherwise, bravo, I applaud his build
I'd be interested in seeing another version such as a Cavalier/Oath of Conquest. Frighten a bunch of creatures, Unwavering Mark ones that save. Could fit in levels in Divine Soul Sorcerer for Shield/Absorb Elements, Favored by the Gods and whatever Cleric spells you might want.
My favorite martial character is an ancestral guardian barbarian I've been playing for a bit more than a year now, thanks to magic Items and good rolled stats he ended up with 22AC and was so difficult for the dm to deal with I intentionally gave him a wisdom of 4 and exclusively used a ladder and a bag of marbles instead of normal weapons for the damage nerf.
A variant of this that I think is hilarious is when you combine Ancestral Guardian with a Rogue's Cunning Action, a reach weapon (whips can be used with all of the Barbarian features afaik and add sneak attack to keep it competitive with a halberd with a far more dancer feel, however it can't benefit from polearm master which with sentinel is a nice aggressively defensive option) and guerilla tactics. Move in, zap an enemy, dance away, now the enemy is emasculated and might not even have a chance to reach you, not to mention that your Rogue subclass can give some interesting options (bonus action advantage to an ally in passing, for example)making this just shy of a martial equivalent of a god wizard lol
This is great! I'm doing a Bear Totem Barbarian right now that I'm planning to multiclass with Echo Knight Fighter after level 5. That reckless attack synergy with Manifest Echo is amazing, I had no clue on that one.
Love this build! Ancestral Guardian is my fave Barbarian, and multiclassing with spell caster is super fun (playing a Barb/Warlock right now and loving it)! Very very cool and effective build!
I had an ansestreal garden tortle with some celestial warlock and it was pretty effective. Armor of Aggathis and pact of tomb for all the ritual spells. And a bit of healing when needed.
a little late but what is really intresting to me is the fact that, from what i see you don't have to remain within those 30ft. you get 40 move speed early on, you can summon your echo 15 feet away from you and command it to move another 30. So you can summon it, have it move in, hit the enemy to proc Ancestral Protectors and then back off causing the Echo to disappear at the end of the Turn. you do not need to be close to your echo to attack through it, you can end your turn 65ft away from your enemy and still move in every turn. this increases to 70 with Longstrider. Not enough against a dragons 80ft speed but many enemies will struggle reaching you.
I am blown away by this, at first it seemed weak to say the least, and the decision to take wizard levels had baffled me but now it all makes sense, cool build and if a player cane to my table with this build I would allow it but it would take a trip to the drawing board everytime I design a combat. I actually kind of like a challenge to make a combat that everyone can have a slice of, the only thing this doesn't cover is if there are multiple big bads, so like 2 or more, that would be the way I would counter this from a dm perspective, also I would probably include a small swarm of big bad underlings, that way the rest of the party can have a little fun too. It would be interesting to see a buff guy yell, COUNTERSPELL! In the middle of a conflict. Can you counterspell counterspell?
What I did for my ancestral guardian Barbarian is that I picked goblin as my race. With goblin you get a feature called nimble escape which allows you to disengage as a bonus action, so I would hit a creature with my ancestral protectors and than disengage so they are force to attack an ally instead of me. I would also position myself next to another enemy so they'd be likely to attack me rather than someone else to spread out damage. I'm considering multiclassing like you since I agree that most barbarian features after 7 arnt too interesting.
Great build! I think im going to try this one. But ill make it a a tortle so i can put more stat points in constitution in stead of dex. And i just like tortles.
My personal go to for Ancestral Guardian was Bugbear, Ancestral Guardian 5, Scout rogue 15 using a whip Attack from 15 feet away with reckless, trigger sneak attack, Trigger Ancestral protectors, run away. If an enemy ends their turn within 5 feet of you, use the Scout's reaction to move up to half your speed away. At Higher Levels use Shield master's bonus action shove to further control enemies while constantly staying out of reach of whichever one you are tagging with Ancestral Protectors. Hitting your allies is innefective, and you are usually too far away to hit so you kite them around the area.
@@exqueue3813 True, but the benefit of it is not having to use your cunning action to disengage at the start of your turn, freeing up your bonus action to Either Dash or use Shield Master. Granted Swashbuckler would acheive similar without a reaction. But the main benefit of Swashbuckler becomes a little redundant with Reckless attack, plus Scout gives you a movement speed increase and the Intiative advantage you didn't get from Barb.
I love the Interceptor fighting style from the class variant features. At our table we rule that it redirects the attack on to the Interceptor, since they're getting in the way of the hit
This sub class is slept on, and I think it’s the best mechanical tank. And I agree, your primary goal as a tank is to protect others. There aren’t very many mechanics that encourage monsters to attack you.
Rune Knight is also pretty good at it. The Cloud Rune is great for spot defense, and becoming Large makes you a considerably better speed bump even before Polearm Master and Sentinel. Echo Knight might be better overall, but, I think they just have different specializations overall.
David Lundberg if the paladin uses the find steed spell it helps mitigate the low movement. You could also put levels into fighter to get to the cavalier subclass as well.
Personally if I was gonna focus on tanking id go Barbadin, ancestral barb and conquest pally. Don't forget, Divine Smite works in rage, and so do auras and channel divinities :)
Fantastic video my favourite character I have played was an ancestral guardian war domain cleric hybrid who would break his rage only to heal downed allies I dislike how overlooked the ancestral guardian is in some circles I'd say it's the best subclass for a co op team based game
One idea I played with was Bear Barbarian X/War Cleric 3. Cast Warding Bond on an important ally, then rage. This lets me tank damage and still threaten enemies with an opportunity attack. Bonus action attacks and Channel Divinity are icing to the cake.
@Rubedo Alaberti The spell doesn't say you can't reduce the damage you take from it, unlike a feature like evocation wizard's Overchannel. This means if your warded blaster sorcerer would normally take 16 damage without resistance, they'd take 8 and you'd likely take 4 unless it was psychic damage.
This is amazing. My only worry is that I am inclined to think that an Echo making a reckless Attack gets the penalty, not the main character. I can imagine a lot of other DMs making that same call.
I am playing this build now in a rime of the frost maiden campaign. I started with 1 lvl Barbarian and then went 4 lvls fighter, echo knight. I took my varient human with a bonus feat of magic initiate druid, guidance; produce flame; and good berries. The story is that on his manhood journey his ancestors blessed his journey, gave him protection from the cold, and provided substance. He calls on them for aid dailey. I flavored my echo knight to be one of my ancestors to fight with him. Now I just went back to Barbarian 3rd level and I have grown in worthiness and even more of my ancestors are going to manifest themselves to aid me in protecting the people of the tundra. I love this build. Thank you for the guidance.
Ancestral guardian barbarian is IMO the best subclass across all classes for working with the shield master feat. Here's why. 1: When you are encouraging enemies to fight only you, a +2 to AC is pretty nice. 2: As a raging barbarian, you get advantage on your shove action. 3: Aside from starting your rage, your bonus action is almost always open for a shove action. 4: Danger sense pairs really well with the final benefit of shield master, giving you a pretty good chance of being unscathed by even a fireball or breath weapon.
I once thought of a similar character based on a tidbit of dwarf lore and wanting to make a strength monk. (Drunken Master/Ancestral Guardian) Dwarves access a collective memory when drunk. So the character is a hill dwarf military captain who lost his unit to an ambush (likely Duergar). He turned to alcohol as a coping mechanism. His summoned spirits are his former colleagues given form by sheer dwarven drunkenness. His primary weapon is a fancy embossed beer stein (like Reinhardt’s in Overwatch)
So problem here Chris. The target isn’t going to have disadvantage against the echo, because the echo isn’t a creature. It’s an object. Ancestral Protectors only creates disadvantage on attacks against creatures not objects. Edit: Chris has responded and I was mistaken. The disadvantage applies but the resistance does not.
The echo will not benefit from the resistance to damage, but it will be attacked with disadvantage. "Until the start of your next turn, that target has disadvantage on any attack roll that isn’t against you" note that it doesn't specify it needs to be against a creature.
Treantmonk's Temple what a brutal combination. Reckless Attack combined with Echo Knight and the Guardians. No advantage for the DM. Even if the enemy can get advantage another way it just cancels.
Halfling circle of moon or Shepard druid/ ancestral spirits barbarian 8. That would be my choice Edit; hmmm.... I concede to the wisdom of treemonk, did not see some of this coming
I've actually built a barbarian goblin from levels 10 to 20 and was dex-based who did quite a lot of tanking. combining his whip with the mobile feat meant I did hit and run tactics and pretty much never went down. later on I got 18con, the shield master feat and tons of movement speed. It's really deceptive how the racial bonuses of disengaging and hiding as a bonus action can mitigate damage done on you, while Ancestral Guardians prevented allies from taking more damage. Definetively a great build to have if you have melee characters in your party, specially sentinel ones.
Did a similar thing with a strength goblin. Really wanted to try using a lance with a build and be a goblin Lancer. It has moderate success, my dm used flanking rules which made being unable to attack at 5 ft a bigger negative
Thank you so much! Now I know how fight against dragons!!! It's a great idea use this barbarian! I like and i'll use in my Next match! Thank you for share this excelent build with us!
If you care about the defense of the party, can't get much better than Armorer Artificer. With an easy 25 AC for yourself, and permanent resource-free disadvantage on attacks against all allies, it's a solid option. You can also share the high AC around, and protect the concentration of the caster's battlefield control spells. Works especially well in campaigns where magic items are hard to come by
I have a similar concept for AG barbarian to accomplish the strategy of staying in the backline and letting the enemies hit your allies with disadvantage and resistance. Polearm master isn't necessary but I like it because it fills the bonus action after rage and rage damage and reckless attack gets applied to that attack and the reaction attack might be useful if you get charged instead of your allies. The strategy is to use a polearm, stand 10ft away from an enemy and reckless attack them then run to the backline.
You should add the mobile feat to the build. If someone reaches you to pin you down you can just move away after smacking them while using the mobile feat
I love the integration of Wizard with Barbarian. Count on Chris to deliver a counterintuitive MC, and have it not only work, but work extremely well. I do wonder about your assumption of 8 combats per day. I've never seen that. Most tables I've sat at start crying at 5, with all resources depleted at 4. If you can accomplish 8, without losing any party members, I think that the whole party is above the curve.
That was sarcasm on David B’s part. He’s referring to a video Treeantmonk posted a few weeks ago explaining why monks suck. Basically that video posited that monks can’t reach baseline damage even with unlimited ki, and that their control option, stunning strike, is too unreliable to salvage the class.
@@davidbycroft I think a sharpshooter+crossbow expert Kensai with hand crossbows can get over baseline. Otherwise monk probably needs too much multiclassing to get there and still be a "monk" build.
there is a problem when using the echo knight's echo to tank : since it have only 1 hp it is rather easy to destroy. While it isn't a big loss, that means the attacker is now free to move toward the rest of the party. So we end up always retreating unless we have a way to push back the enemy a few feet
Oath of redemption with interceptor fighting style, warding bond cast. Have high ac paladin 5ft of squishy party member, barbarian 30 ft away using thrown attacks. Two reactions to potentially reduce big attack to 0
I do have to add, though, that if a person managed to cap off their strength score earlier on-such as starting off with a higher strength score prior to him continuing to increase his own-they could can instead use some of the expunged ASI's for other things; things such as Constitution increases-to increase HP and AC-or increases to your soft stats (Int, Wis, Cha) for better chances on resisting saving throws against things such as the Banishment spell, or even some feats such as Mage Slayer or Sentinel, for better enemy/area control. For example, such as in Treantmonk's earlier 2 Barbarian/18 Echo Knight Fighter build, you could do a similar sentinel/echo tactic.
Totem Warrior + Divine Sorcerer to twin warding bond on two allies. You can resist the damage that you get from Warding Bond, so 25% of enemy damage sent at your allies is just removed from play while you're raging.
Would you recommend the shifter race for this build? Shifting; As a bonus action, you can assume a more bestial appearance. This transformation lasts for 1 minute, until you die, or until you revert to your normal appearance as a bonus action. When you shift, you gain temporary hit points equal to 2 × your proficiency bonus. You can shift a number of times equal to your proficiency bonus, and you regain all expended uses when you finish a long rest. Wildhunt; While shifted, you have advantage on Wisdom checks, and no creature within 30 feet of you can make an attack roll with advantage against you unless you’re incapacitated.
who gave you this Idea! I built a similar build but with hand axes. Throw one at a target to mark with your spirits, go toe to toe with a second target and use your echo to face off against a third for maximum battlefield control. The addition of the wizard class though something I didn't think of.
The Zealot is the hardest class to kill especially without very specific spells. I think that it is the perfect tank since the enemy isn't perceiving any hindrance to their damage. It also helps to mitigate the downside of reckless attack.
The only thing that makes Zealot harder to kill than any other straight class barbarian is rage beyond death, which you don't get until 14th lvl. Now you are harder to keep dead bc of warrior of the gods meaning as soon as the cleric has revivify they can use it on you without the diamond. As long as you haven't lost any vital organs. It is one of the top Barb subclasses though. I'd say second best, after storm herald and right in front of ancestral guardian
My personal favorite is to go level 1 rogue for out of combat utility with skills and expertise. I then go barbarian for levels 2-6. I then take 7-10 as rogue I like mastermind for the bonus action help after rage. Levels 11-14 I take fighter for battlemaster. From here I would finish rogue. So you’re a barb 5/fighter 4/rogue 11. Barb provides good health, reckless attack for auto sneak attack, rage, and tanking abilities. Fighter provides utility through manuevers, action surge when you need it, fighting style to improve AC as you’ll have a middling Dex, and an ASI. Rogue provides cunning action for options, sneak attack to supplement damage a bit, uncanny dodge to tank further and be more survivable, evasion, extra ASI, expertise, and reliable talent. You’ll have out of combat utility and be able to be really good at shoving/grappling enemies. I think barb/rogue has a few different styles of play depending on subclasses. You could also go rogue to 15 for a few more dies of sneak attack but I feel fighter provides more utility/options than what those levels provide.
I'm planning on doing a pretty similar build but with Armorer Artificer instead of Ancestral Guardian, it does less damage and can't reduce damage, but it's a lot more SAD, have more options in support and utility with spells (and damage because Strixhaven is allowed, i have the Lorehold Background, so Spirit Guardians is on my list), have more AC, can buff saving throws with Flash of Genius and can potentially hit multiple targets with the Gauntlets, not only one. The Echo Knight is absolutely fantastic for this kind of build.
For a while I've been planning out my next character to be an ancestral guardian flavored around Gaara from Naruto, think I may just have to take some inspiration from this video and throw in echo knight as well, works great for what I had in mind!
I was like "Barbarian, really?" then "lame", "lame" and "obvious but still lame" but then you came in with the Echo Shenanigans and i was like "OMG, i never thought of that!" Well done. (Still have an obviously lame character for 8 levels but i get it, that Echo stuff is pretty cool. Now i am thinking of using that in a way that's not lame for 8 levels)
Can you expand on why the abilities presented are lame? And something not to overlooked: the 3rd level feature can be used with ranged attacks. You lose out on the bonus to damage from rage, but I would not discount the ability to confer disadvantage & resistance (even if it's just a single target) from a distance.
@@unvoicedapollo3318 You also lose out on the ability to use Reckless Attack (so your accuracy is way down), and have to choose between a STR or DEX build, resulting in either the loss of Extra Attack (you can't draw multiple thrown weapons in the same round) or giving up rage damage and reckless attack even if you end up in melee.
@@shanebernier2483 Obviously you wouldn't want to main a ranged weapon, but it can pay off. I suppose your ranged might be down a little if you use bows, but again shouldn't that be significant of a difference unless you're relying on medium armor instead of unarmored defense. Rage only requires an attack & not a melee attack, and while rage damage is a nice bonus, it's not a significant boost. If your group needs time to set things up, sometimes it's worth it to try to hit something at range before wading into melee. And then you won't be collateral for that fireball.
In a wildemount campaign right now our DM is already throwing more and more shit at our Echo knight... I see either a TPK or a series of events leading us to running from a boss leaving the Echo knight dead behind us coming soon.
Thematically, the echos are representations of you from other timelines, so I'd personally rule that they do count as "you" for the purposes of being attacked by the enemy. That may not be the literal mechanical reading of the ability, but I think it fits much better with the theme of the class ability given that each echo is supposed to be you from another reality. It also doesn't totally invalidate the build as you can use a bonus action to create a new echo each round. You just need to find inventive ways to stay out of the monster's melee range, or risk the attack of opportunity and just walk away.
@@shanebernier2483 That doesn't make sense to me. Are you saying that someone is not allowed to use their reaction to react to an object moving near them? It would make playing a game of something like American Football hard in the D&D universe if someone could never attempt to intercept a ball that was thrown past them. Also, the entire point of what I was saying is that I don't think it's appropriate to treat them as objects. Thematically they are reflection of you from an unrealised timeline; therefore, they are a version of you. If the rules say the echo is an object, that's fine, but it doesn't make thematic sense to me to treat it as an unrelated object, so I personally would treat it as a creature that is, for all intents and purposes, a second version of you.
@@snozgobler If you choose to treat it as a creature, then keep in mind that it should also do things like providing flanking bonuses and allow rogues to qualify for sneak attack, which it currently does not.
Late here so I'll watch this tomorrow, but I'm excited to hear your thoughts. I've dabbled in a mix of these classes (AG and WM), but on a HW ranger chassis, so will be interesting to see similarities and differences
Back now, and I really enjoyed your video! I had similar thoughts when adding in AG and WM to my ranger, the extra abilities really make a difference in play. My build isn't as optimised, only fully coming online at level 16(!), but plays like a standard STRanger while levelling, with extra features thrown in when desired. Probably wasn't ideal levelling plan, but I didn't like the looks of ranger levels 6-10, so started barbarian, got to extra attack with ranger, added in the dips where they'd see the most levels of play, then ground out the remaining levels quickly after the main campaign ended (in AL, quick progression). But I was very MAD, offset by the guarantee of strength weapons. Main difference, as I don't have access to echo knight, is the distant strike feature of the Horizon Walker, giving me both extra movement and attacks, as well as my main source of defence against the target hit with Ancestral Protectors, letting me get out of there without an opportunity attack. Has good options for bonus actions, though some gambling is involved if risking going for the GWM bonus attack, otherwise can add and convert to force damage with Planar warrior. And good uses of reactions, with War Mage. And a few extra spells through ranger, mostly useful out of combat (PWT, and Silence) RP, playing as an natural-mystical Norse/Celtic themed rune warrior, guided by his ancestors.
Did you ever revisit this build now that you can freely move racial stat bonuses around? You wanted to do halfling, and now that would be more viable...
I just had to check how the Ancestral guardian feature worked, and it's interesting... The way it is worded, the disadvantage vs the echo would work, but due to being an object, the echo wouldn't have resistance to the damage. Granted, it has 1hp anyway, so it doesn't matter... but still interesting.
The most successful tank I've ever seen was an AG barbarian that took the sentinel feat and the fighting style feat to get interception... He had a way to reduce damage every turn, one at range that used resources, and another in melee for free. I could not deal a significant portion of damage to the party without magic
I feel like this build comes active at level 10 with the echo. And that is very late for my taste. We really need the second attack so its hard to push any further
Some people may say a good offence is the best defence, but what they are missing is the best offence is the best defence, as you can't do any more damage if you die and as the best defence is a good offence, and the best offence is a good defence, the best defence is just a good defence xD
I love this build, I also was looking heavily into making a totem barbarian just taking wolf to help my allies instead of bear for my own protection. Was kinda thinking about making it a kobold to get "pack tactics" and "grovel, cower, beg". Would have to figure out how to mitigate the -2 to str though, probably through magic like abilities of other classes or fighter's copious ASIs, warlock and hexblade might be a good choice if all you are doing is eldritch smiting. That way you don't have to care about your cha much. Wolf Totem barbarian is probably as close as I'm gonna get to the cavalier from PF. I think now I have to flesh out this concept with at least 3 lvls of totem barbarian to get that first wolf ability, then some battlemaster fighter. Probably just call the build "HELPING". Throwing in some pally might be good to. Now I'm kinda thinking 7-10 levels of ancients pally, 3 levels of wolf totem barbarian, and the rest could be BM fighter or more of the first two.
Very cool build. Am wracking my brain to see if there is any way to make an altered version of this that is AL legal and still worth playing (echo knight iirc is not AL legal). We used to wonder if a missile-attack AG Barb would be worth playing - could even be dex based and shoot arrows from range (but can't reckless those) - or hurl javelins which iirc are Str based (but short ranged). If he took BM fighter instead of Echo Knight he could impose fear or try to trip it (not a good ST). Or he could take enough rogue to use a b.a. to hide after injuring the target. If you want to up damage he could go GWM and hope mirror image will keep him alive in tough fights - while using BM's precision to turn those misses caused by GWM's -5 into hits. If you have enough short rests, this might yield good numbers. If this is worth doing it would be a very weird character - who will protect the party but also have some rounds where he really does excessive damage. Maybe there's another way to alter this for AL and it's worth doing.
Im literally playing a variant of this build in Dungeon of the Mad Mage, except I have polearm master (I know the gm applies my weapon properties and feats to the echo), I dont have wizard levels though. Echo Knight is just so good for denying enemies access to you and your allies
Just thought here. Swashbuckler could combo well with ancestral guardian. Rage attack and run. Then the bad guy can't hit you and the hit on your friends won't be that bad
~ 3:30 Hah! I've just built my first barbarian and I chose the Ancestral Guardian subclass for similar reasons. I'm eager to see how yours compares to mine -- and maybe you'll have some ideas I haven't considered.
My hesitation for the Ancestral Guardian was that their abilities are all dependent upon attacks of enemies, making them far less effective against spellcasting enemies. I would think to use the Mage Slayer, but that 5 ft requirement is just too restrictive. Now that Tasha's has released, I can make my Tanarukk (demonic orc, minotaur like) a reskin of the Satyr to get Magic Resistance and shore up this hole in the Barbarian's defense. This would serve a similar effect to resilient (wis), and though not as powerful for Wisdom saves, it applies far more often. I could play as just a reskin of Satyr, though I would ask the DM to count as demon rather than fey- which is probably worse for me mechanically. Consult the Spirits would be very entertaining when the ancestor is Baphomet!
I know this is an old video so no one will see this but... The echo will not be protected by the abilities of the ancestral guardian barb. The echo is an object, not a creature.
What do you think about going Tortle and taking Paladin as your third class instead of Wizard? You could throw your DEX and INT into CHA instead. You wouldn't necessarily miss the Resilient Wisdom too much because of your Aura of Protection, and since you're standing by your party, you can get more value out of your Aura of Protection/whichever oath's aura you choose. Probably not as consistently effective from 1-20 as your build, but I think pretty fun once all the pieces come together.
What's better than one tank? Two tanks. With ancestral protectors. Against a single boss it will have disadvantage on every attack and you'll have resistance to all damage on the chance they do get through.
@@blairbrook1336 Ancestral protectors give disadvantage to any target that isn't the character. If you have two characters with it then they're both covering each other - the disadvantage doesn't stack but the single tank with ancesteral protectors doesn't grant disadvantage an attacks against themselves but the second tank would do it.
The thing that surprises me most is how well these disparate classes mesh flavor-wise; it almost tells a story. At 1st level, you're a typical tribal warrior. At 3rd level, you learn how to summon the spirits of your ancestors to aid you in battle. At 7th level, you forge a bond with the ghost of a legendary hero of your tribe who fights by your side. At 11th level, you're getting older and becoming more of a shaman - spirits watch over you when you sleep (Alarm), they translate for you (Comprehend Languages), tell you stories about any magical artifacts you find (Identify), take hits for you in combat (Mirror Image), draw you into the spirit-realm (Blink), let you... breathe underwater (ok, the flavor is starting to come apart a bit, but whatever).
I read it as an "Ancestral Guardian" who, rather than being a tribal barbarian who reveres the ancestral spirits of their tribe, is a noble who conjures the great ancestors of their esteemed family history. While not particularly well-spoken, they are fairly well-educated. Their combat style ends up being tactical rather than emotionally driven, fighting in tandem with the great warriors from their noble lineage, and working more like a spellcaster in practice: Rather than charging directly into the fray, they send out their great ancestor and the ghosts of their noble past to protect their party while often staying back, themselves. They even go so far as to dabble in the arcane practices, using their education to learn magic suited for war to defend themselves from assault.
Shane Windsor either of these narratives would make sense and make for compelling characters outside of the mechanics
Mirror Image also works wonderfully well, since it conjures more duplicates, just like the Echo
It reminds me of Logen Ninefingers from the First Law.
I wrote up a character who was part of a pacifistic clan of gnomes who were slaughtered and he was the only one that fought back and ended up being a sort of vessel for their vengeful spirits.
It's a blast. This subclass has fantastic mechanics and flavor.
Treantmonk: make a tank
Also Treantmonk: make a Wizard
Yep.
Treantmonk's Temple it’s a great build. Hope I can try it out one day. A bit of wizard is definitely a fun addition!
Abjuration wizards with warlock armor of shadow dip are insane tanks. Wizards can just do it all
@@brannenpfister2579 true! or you can take eldritch adept/ be a deep gnome and get access to infinte nondetection (which isn't as good as armour of shadows but still) with the snirfneblin magic feat.
This build has some sweet role play potential. Instead of an echo use one of your ancestors. As you learn spells flavor them using your ancestors (I.E find familiar = a loyal pet of your ancestors or a shape shifting ancestor.)
At level 6 have a meditation and meet an ancestor who berates you for being too reliant on strength. Have this ancestor train you during your down time and at level 3 he/she becomes your echo.
Skies the limit 😄
I also really like the idea that the echo is your own soul manifesting as an ancestor. So, basically, it's what you WILL look like when your descendants call upon you as guardians.
I’ve been prepping for this since echo came out!! 1 more level and I’ll be there. Cannot wait.
As soon as he spoke about casting spells with a barbarian i had a feeling this was going to be multiclassed with wizard ;D Chris loves Wizards
I saw someone talk about reflavoring the Ancestral Guardian to be the Barbarian version of the Echo Knight. It is a phenomenal multiclass, and the two archetypes easily meld together
This is exactly what I am doing. Everything I am doing looks like alternate versions of myself helping and protecting.
The fact that your echo can be manifest all the time really improves your defense in all combats. While your rages are limited, using mirror image and manifest echo during a combat where you aren’t raging means that there are suddenly 5 versions of you to target. The limitation on rages suddenly becomes less crippling
Ancestral Guardian is probably my favourite barbarian subclass. My favourite character to this day, is still my barbarian Alice. I made her a paranormal researcher who lets ghosts possess her when she rages to gain power from them. It was just this perfect moment of my ridiculous concept having the *perfect* subclass that made me love this particular barbarian path so much.
I just started up a rock gnome ancestral guardian with Spear+shield with polearm master and mobile and it's REALLY strong for a single class. I'm always using my bonus action and reaction and someone is always either not getting hit or taking less damage. Every single turn I make a difference.
You move in, make 2 reckless rage attacks, and move away for free thanks to mobile. Your target can either attack your other allies in melee at disadvantage and half damage - which you can reduce further. Or they can eat 2 aoos from your companions and move toward you - at which point your polearm master attack goes off. If the monster you targeted doesn't come after you or hit your allies, you can use your Pam reaction attack on any other enemy that might approach you.
The character ends up having advantage on every single save except con - which should be your highest stat and have proficiency. You also have advantage on Initiative and attacks. You'll be rolling advantage more often than you won't.
I'd really like to see this build sounds fun
I was literally trying to build a ancestral guardian today! What great timing!
I had the exact same thought last night. Path of Ancestors Barbarian sounded fun but I wasn't sure what else.
Been playing one for a while now, it’s a lot of fun.
Haven’t watched it yet, but since it says Tank it MUST be a Monk. As Chris previously said, they’re the BEST tanks.
No, no, no. You've got it all wrong. It's their mobility that makes them excellent crowd control. What are the odds of them resisting four consecutive stunning strikes on the same turn?
@@AvengerAtIlipa it's not about the mobility! it's about the damage! in the four months since you posted this comment, surely the monk has killed that orc by now---oh. they haven't. four months of punching and hes alive
Well, it's not about the damage...
@@elizabethviolet8448 Well, it isn't really about the damage either, since Unarmored Defense can give a Monk an AC of 20! Monks are among the best tanks in the game!
@@AvengerAtIlipaIf you think about it, reading books could make their ac go potentially infinite :D
Subliminal message of Treaantmonk's face in the dark, at 32:32
LOOK AWAY!
I am currently playing a halfling paladin.
But my friend is an ancestral guardian centaur. I have mounted combatant.
We never get hit. We do all the damage.
2 levels of War Wizard are just amazing for any martial class that doesn't have a good use of its reaction, or just wants to shore up weak saves. Plus all the great rituals.
Looking back at this now, I picked up on one thing that makes it plain as day why the ability score change in Tasha’s was such a good thing.
You wanted a halfling and felt you couldn’t cause it didn’t work as well as variant human would with the ability to put your stats where you wanted.
I’m glad that doesn’t have to be a consideration now.
I am shocked you haven’t brought up action surge in conjunction with rage and mirror image.
Damn, this is a great build.
I thought I was being clever with my ancestral guardian3/clockwork soul 6+ armor of agethis build, but this is really a great concept, meshing solid mechanics and tactics.
My only problem is that I refuse to multiclass more than 2 classes on principle, and I dont use crit role material.
But otherwise, bravo, I applaud his build
I'd be interested in seeing another version such as a Cavalier/Oath of Conquest. Frighten a bunch of creatures, Unwavering Mark ones that save. Could fit in levels in Divine Soul Sorcerer for Shield/Absorb Elements, Favored by the Gods and whatever Cleric spells you might want.
My favorite martial character is an ancestral guardian barbarian I've been playing for a bit more than a year now, thanks to magic Items and good rolled stats he ended up with 22AC and was so difficult for the dm to deal with I intentionally gave him a wisdom of 4 and exclusively used a ladder and a bag of marbles instead of normal weapons for the damage nerf.
A variant of this that I think is hilarious is when you combine Ancestral Guardian with a Rogue's Cunning Action, a reach weapon (whips can be used with all of the Barbarian features afaik and add sneak attack to keep it competitive with a halberd with a far more dancer feel, however it can't benefit from polearm master which with sentinel is a nice aggressively defensive option) and guerilla tactics. Move in, zap an enemy, dance away, now the enemy is emasculated and might not even have a chance to reach you, not to mention that your Rogue subclass can give some interesting options (bonus action advantage to an ally in passing, for example)making this just shy of a martial equivalent of a god wizard lol
The theory crafting and creation of this was brilliant to watch... mind blowing
This is great! I'm doing a Bear Totem Barbarian right now that I'm planning to multiclass with Echo Knight Fighter after level 5. That reckless attack synergy with Manifest Echo is amazing, I had no clue on that one.
Love this build! Ancestral Guardian is my fave Barbarian, and multiclassing with spell caster is super fun (playing a Barb/Warlock right now and loving it)!
Very very cool and effective build!
I had an ansestreal garden tortle with some celestial warlock and it was pretty effective. Armor of Aggathis and pact of tomb for all the ritual spells. And a bit of healing when needed.
I also find that combo better than the wizard dip for a frontliner.
a little late but what is really intresting to me is the fact that, from what i see you don't have to remain within those 30ft.
you get 40 move speed early on, you can summon your echo 15 feet away from you and command it to move another 30. So you can summon it, have it move in, hit the enemy to proc Ancestral Protectors and then back off causing the Echo to disappear at the end of the Turn.
you do not need to be close to your echo to attack through it, you can end your turn 65ft away from your enemy and still move in every turn. this increases to 70 with Longstrider. Not enough against a dragons 80ft speed but many enemies will struggle reaching you.
I am blown away by this, at first it seemed weak to say the least, and the decision to take wizard levels had baffled me but now it all makes sense, cool build and if a player cane to my table with this build I would allow it but it would take a trip to the drawing board everytime I design a combat. I actually kind of like a challenge to make a combat that everyone can have a slice of, the only thing this doesn't cover is if there are multiple big bads, so like 2 or more, that would be the way I would counter this from a dm perspective, also I would probably include a small swarm of big bad underlings, that way the rest of the party can have a little fun too. It would be interesting to see a buff guy yell, COUNTERSPELL! In the middle of a conflict. Can you counterspell counterspell?
What I did for my ancestral guardian Barbarian is that I picked goblin as my race. With goblin you get a feature called nimble escape which allows you to disengage as a bonus action, so I would hit a creature with my ancestral protectors and than disengage so they are force to attack an ally instead of me. I would also position myself next to another enemy so they'd be likely to attack me rather than someone else to spread out damage. I'm considering multiclassing like you since I agree that most barbarian features after 7 arnt too interesting.
Great build! I think im going to try this one. But ill make it a a tortle so i can put more stat points in constitution in stead of dex. And i just like tortles.
As soon as I read the ancestral guardian features, I thought about an echo knight multiclass. Glad to see you made the same connection.
Glad someone is doing something with Ancestral Guardian, which is a sweet subclass.
This build sound like fun to play. You made me consider playing a barbarian!
My personal go to for Ancestral Guardian was Bugbear, Ancestral Guardian 5, Scout rogue 15 using a whip
Attack from 15 feet away with reckless, trigger sneak attack, Trigger Ancestral protectors, run away. If an enemy ends their turn within 5 feet of you, use the Scout's reaction to move up to half your speed away. At Higher Levels use Shield master's bonus action shove to further control enemies while constantly staying out of reach of whichever one you are tagging with Ancestral Protectors. Hitting your allies is innefective, and you are usually too far away to hit so you kite them around the area.
Scout does not prevent you from being attacked, it only lets you move AFTER the opponent's turn has ended.
@@exqueue3813 True, but the benefit of it is not having to use your cunning action to disengage at the start of your turn, freeing up your bonus action to Either Dash or use Shield Master. Granted Swashbuckler would acheive similar without a reaction. But the main benefit of Swashbuckler becomes a little redundant with Reckless attack, plus Scout gives you a movement speed increase and the Intiative advantage you didn't get from Barb.
You are great at delivering videos and breaking things down so I can learn better, thank you.
You're welcome!
I love the Interceptor fighting style from the class variant features. At our table we rule that it redirects the attack on to the Interceptor, since they're getting in the way of the hit
This sub class is slept on, and I think it’s the best mechanical tank. And I agree, your primary goal as a tank is to protect others. There aren’t very many mechanics that encourage monsters to attack you.
Rune Knight is also pretty good at it. The Cloud Rune is great for spot defense, and becoming Large makes you a considerably better speed bump even before Polearm Master and Sentinel.
Echo Knight might be better overall, but, I think they just have different specializations overall.
Hooray - the war mage/ echo knight combo I was asking about on the older videos (battle mage and echo Knight vids). Question answered! It works :)
I’m surprised you went with barbarian to tank for the party. My first thought would have been Paladin, but barbarian makes perfect sense as a base.
No. Trying to tank with paladin and it dosent work. Low movement, no locking down enemies and they don't even try to hit my AC or make me do saves.
David Lundberg play Conquest! It’s a great tank!
David Lundberg if the paladin uses the find steed spell it helps mitigate the low movement. You could also put levels into fighter to get to the cavalier subclass as well.
Lee Silver yup conquest is a great tank.
Personally if I was gonna focus on tanking id go Barbadin, ancestral barb and conquest pally. Don't forget, Divine Smite works in rage, and so do auras and channel divinities :)
Barbarian-Wizards are getting so trendy lately. Cool take from Treantmonk.
Fantastic video my favourite character I have played was an ancestral guardian war domain cleric hybrid who would break his rage only to heal downed allies
I dislike how overlooked the ancestral guardian is in some circles I'd say it's the best subclass for a co op team based game
One idea I played with was Bear Barbarian X/War Cleric 3. Cast Warding Bond on an important ally, then rage. This lets me tank damage and still threaten enemies with an opportunity attack.
Bonus action attacks and Channel Divinity are icing to the cake.
@Rubedo Alaberti The spell doesn't say you can't reduce the damage you take from it, unlike a feature like evocation wizard's Overchannel.
This means if your warded blaster sorcerer would normally take 16 damage without resistance, they'd take 8 and you'd likely take 4 unless it was psychic damage.
This is amazing.
My only worry is that I am inclined to think that an Echo making a reckless Attack gets the penalty, not the main character. I can imagine a lot of other DMs making that same call.
I like this build. It looks very fun to play. Nice job!
I love Ancestral Guardian and am currently playing one
I am playing this build now in a rime of the frost maiden campaign. I started with 1 lvl Barbarian and then went 4 lvls fighter, echo knight. I took my varient human with a bonus feat of magic initiate druid, guidance; produce flame; and good berries. The story is that on his manhood journey his ancestors blessed his journey, gave him protection from the cold, and provided substance. He calls on them for aid dailey. I flavored my echo knight to be one of my ancestors to fight with him. Now I just went back to Barbarian 3rd level and I have grown in worthiness and even more of my ancestors are going to manifest themselves to aid me in protecting the people of the tundra.
I love this build. Thank you for the guidance.
If you're worried about Reckless Attack giving advantage against you, consider the Wildhunt Shifter...
I admire your convoluted logic 👍
I love when you show scenarios on the battlemap. Please do more of this. Are you ever going to do a Champaign on the youtubes?
Ancestral guardian barbarian is IMO the best subclass across all classes for working with the shield master feat. Here's why.
1: When you are encouraging enemies to fight only you, a +2 to AC is pretty nice.
2: As a raging barbarian, you get advantage on your shove action.
3: Aside from starting your rage, your bonus action is almost always open for a shove action.
4: Danger sense pairs really well with the final benefit of shield master, giving you a pretty good chance of being unscathed by even a fireball or breath weapon.
I once thought of a similar character based on a tidbit of dwarf lore and wanting to make a strength monk. (Drunken Master/Ancestral Guardian) Dwarves access a collective memory when drunk. So the character is a hill dwarf military captain who lost his unit to an ambush (likely Duergar). He turned to alcohol as a coping mechanism. His summoned spirits are his former colleagues given form by sheer dwarven drunkenness.
His primary weapon is a fancy embossed beer stein (like Reinhardt’s in Overwatch)
Really interesting build, i will have to try it out soon 🙂👍🏻
So problem here Chris. The target isn’t going to have disadvantage against the echo, because the echo isn’t a creature. It’s an object. Ancestral Protectors only creates disadvantage on attacks against creatures not objects.
Edit: Chris has responded and I was mistaken. The disadvantage applies but the resistance does not.
The echo will not benefit from the resistance to damage, but it will be attacked with disadvantage. "Until the start of your next turn, that target has disadvantage on any attack roll that isn’t against you" note that it doesn't specify it needs to be against a creature.
Treantmonk's Temple Ah yes....my mistake! Interesting. So even if an enemy tries to hit the echo, it’s a risky move.
Treantmonk's Temple what a brutal combination. Reckless Attack combined with Echo Knight and the Guardians. No advantage for the DM. Even if the enemy can get advantage another way it just cancels.
Until now my favorite tank was the Eternal Cockroach build. Now I'll have to fiddle around with this one. :)
Halfling circle of moon or Shepard druid/ ancestral spirits barbarian 8. That would be my choice
Edit; hmmm.... I concede to the wisdom of treemonk, did not see some of this coming
I've actually built a barbarian goblin from levels 10 to 20 and was dex-based who did quite a lot of tanking. combining his whip with the mobile feat meant I did hit and run tactics and pretty much never went down. later on I got 18con, the shield master feat and tons of movement speed. It's really deceptive how the racial bonuses of disengaging and hiding as a bonus action can mitigate damage done on you, while Ancestral Guardians prevented allies from taking more damage. Definetively a great build to have if you have melee characters in your party, specially sentinel ones.
Did a similar thing with a strength goblin. Really wanted to try using a lance with a build and be a goblin Lancer. It has moderate success, my dm used flanking rules which made being unable to attack at 5 ft a bigger negative
I knew where this was going the second he said he wants to use some of Mercers stuff xD.
This combination is so busted, but also so much fun...
The only person who would even think about taking 7 levels of wizard when making a tank is Treantmonk.
Thank you so much! Now I know how fight against dragons!!! It's a great idea use this barbarian! I like and i'll use in my Next match! Thank you for share this excelent build with us!
If you care about the defense of the party, can't get much better than Armorer Artificer. With an easy 25 AC for yourself, and permanent resource-free disadvantage on attacks against all allies, it's a solid option. You can also share the high AC around, and protect the concentration of the caster's battlefield control spells. Works especially well in campaigns where magic items are hard to come by
Action Surge Mirror Image (or blink) Rage then Attack Action also works for an opening round.
32:30 Why is there a random picture of a bald guy in the dark that flashes on the screen here?
Pretty sure thats him
Nice catch!
Damn nice catch Dude
I have a similar concept for AG barbarian to accomplish the strategy of staying in the backline and letting the enemies hit your allies with disadvantage and resistance. Polearm master isn't necessary but I like it because it fills the bonus action after rage and rage damage and reckless attack gets applied to that attack and the reaction attack might be useful if you get charged instead of your allies. The strategy is to use a polearm, stand 10ft away from an enemy and reckless attack them then run to the backline.
You should add the mobile feat to the build. If someone reaches you to pin you down you can just move away after smacking them while using the mobile feat
I have this build, but it uses the charger feat and three levels of Hunter for Horde Breaker so it still has extra attack when it charges
31:00 *Giant walks backwards and then throws a boulder at you* Next. :P
I love the integration of Wizard with Barbarian. Count on Chris to deliver a counterintuitive MC, and have it not only work, but work extremely well.
I do wonder about your assumption of 8 combats per day. I've never seen that. Most tables I've sat at start crying at 5, with all resources depleted at 4. If you can accomplish 8, without losing any party members, I think that the whole party is above the curve.
I agree that 8 encounters a day is unusual, but the DMG does say 6-8 so its the safe number to use even if most tables don't get there
@Rubedo Alaberti Except Monks... they're "great!"
@Rubedo Alaberti No, I don't think he has...I wonder if he'll ever manage to get one above baseline.
That was sarcasm on David B’s part. He’s referring to a video Treeantmonk posted a few weeks ago explaining why monks suck. Basically that video posited that monks can’t reach baseline damage even with unlimited ki, and that their control option, stunning strike, is too unreliable to salvage the class.
@@davidbycroft I think a sharpshooter+crossbow expert Kensai with hand crossbows can get over baseline. Otherwise monk probably needs too much multiclassing to get there and still be a "monk" build.
there is a problem when using the echo knight's echo to tank : since it have only 1 hp it is rather easy to destroy. While it isn't a big loss, that means the attacker is now free to move toward the rest of the party. So we end up always retreating unless we have a way to push back the enemy a few feet
I absolutely love the Ancestral Guardian. Part of me wants to try and combine it with a Paladin.
Oath of redemption with interceptor fighting style, warding bond cast.
Have high ac paladin 5ft of squishy party member, barbarian 30 ft away using thrown attacks.
Two reactions to potentially reduce big attack to 0
I do have to add, though, that if a person managed to cap off their strength score earlier on-such as starting off with a higher strength score prior to him continuing to increase his own-they could can instead use some of the expunged ASI's for other things; things such as Constitution increases-to increase HP and AC-or increases to your soft stats (Int, Wis, Cha) for better chances on resisting saving throws against things such as the Banishment spell, or even some feats such as Mage Slayer or Sentinel, for better enemy/area control.
For example, such as in Treantmonk's earlier 2 Barbarian/18 Echo Knight Fighter build, you could do a similar sentinel/echo tactic.
Totem Warrior + Divine Sorcerer to twin warding bond on two allies. You can resist the damage that you get from Warding Bond, so 25% of enemy damage sent at your allies is just removed from play while you're raging.
this is like the trickery cleric build where you have a million copies of yourself
Would you recommend the shifter race for this build?
Shifting;
As a bonus action, you can assume a more bestial appearance. This transformation lasts for 1 minute, until you die, or until you revert to your normal appearance as a bonus action. When you shift, you gain temporary hit points equal to 2 × your proficiency bonus. You can shift a number of times equal to your proficiency bonus, and you regain all expended uses when you finish a long rest.
Wildhunt;
While shifted, you have advantage on Wisdom checks, and no creature within 30 feet of you can make an attack roll with advantage against you unless you’re incapacitated.
who gave you this Idea! I built a similar build but with hand axes. Throw one at a target to mark with your spirits, go toe to toe with a second target and use your echo to face off against a third for maximum battlefield control. The addition of the wizard class though something I didn't think of.
This idea was mine. If I get the idea from someone else, I give them credit.
@@TreantmonksTemple of course I was joking. And besides with the addition of a wizard you made this an even better build then I had created.
Now I just need to watch a video on how to roleplay a Noble Barbarian/Fighter/Wizard and I'm all set 🙂
The Zealot is the hardest class to kill especially without very specific spells. I think that it is the perfect tank since the enemy isn't perceiving any hindrance to their damage. It also helps to mitigate the downside of reckless attack.
The only thing that makes Zealot harder to kill than any other straight class barbarian is rage beyond death, which you don't get until 14th lvl.
Now you are harder to keep dead bc of warrior of the gods meaning as soon as the cleric has revivify they can use it on you without the diamond. As long as you haven't lost any vital organs. It is one of the top Barb subclasses though. I'd say second best, after storm herald and right in front of ancestral guardian
My personal favorite is to go level 1 rogue for out of combat utility with skills and expertise. I then go barbarian for levels 2-6. I then take 7-10 as rogue I like mastermind for the bonus action help after rage. Levels 11-14 I take fighter for battlemaster. From here I would finish rogue. So you’re a barb 5/fighter 4/rogue 11. Barb provides good health, reckless attack for auto sneak attack, rage, and tanking abilities. Fighter provides utility through manuevers, action surge when you need it, fighting style to improve AC as you’ll have a middling Dex, and an ASI. Rogue provides cunning action for options, sneak attack to supplement damage a bit, uncanny dodge to tank further and be more survivable, evasion, extra ASI, expertise, and reliable talent. You’ll have out of combat utility and be able to be really good at shoving/grappling enemies. I think barb/rogue has a few different styles of play depending on subclasses. You could also go rogue to 15 for a few more dies of sneak attack but I feel fighter provides more utility/options than what those levels provide.
I'm planning on doing a pretty similar build but with Armorer Artificer instead of Ancestral Guardian, it does less damage and can't reduce damage, but it's a lot more SAD, have more options in support and utility with spells (and damage because Strixhaven is allowed, i have the Lorehold Background, so Spirit Guardians is on my list), have more AC, can buff saving throws with Flash of Genius and can potentially hit multiple targets with the Gauntlets, not only one. The Echo Knight is absolutely fantastic for this kind of build.
“Let’s build a barbarian tank! We’re gonna multi class into wizard…” -treantmonk
For a while I've been planning out my next character to be an ancestral guardian flavored around Gaara from Naruto, think I may just have to take some inspiration from this video and throw in echo knight as well, works great for what I had in mind!
I was like "Barbarian, really?" then "lame", "lame" and "obvious but still lame" but then you came in with the Echo Shenanigans and i was like "OMG, i never thought of that!" Well done. (Still have an obviously lame character for 8 levels but i get it, that Echo stuff is pretty cool. Now i am thinking of using that in a way that's not lame for 8 levels)
Can you expand on why the abilities presented are lame?
And something not to overlooked: the 3rd level feature can be used with ranged attacks. You lose out on the bonus to damage from rage, but I would not discount the ability to confer disadvantage & resistance (even if it's just a single target) from a distance.
@@unvoicedapollo3318 You also lose out on the ability to use Reckless Attack (so your accuracy is way down), and have to choose between a STR or DEX build, resulting in either the loss of Extra Attack (you can't draw multiple thrown weapons in the same round) or giving up rage damage and reckless attack even if you end up in melee.
@@shanebernier2483 Obviously you wouldn't want to main a ranged weapon, but it can pay off.
I suppose your ranged might be down a little if you use bows, but again shouldn't that be significant of a difference unless you're relying on medium armor instead of unarmored defense.
Rage only requires an attack & not a melee attack, and while rage damage is a nice bonus, it's not a significant boost.
If your group needs time to set things up, sometimes it's worth it to try to hit something at range before wading into melee. And then you won't be collateral for that fireball.
The echo knight synergy is nuts. You're asking for a dm to hate you with this one. Haha
Yeah this is an easy instant nerf in 1-2 fights if used like that with most dms.
In a wildemount campaign right now our DM is already throwing more and more shit at our Echo knight... I see either a TPK or a series of events leading us to running from a boss leaving the Echo knight dead behind us coming soon.
Thematically, the echos are representations of you from other timelines, so I'd personally rule that they do count as "you" for the purposes of being attacked by the enemy. That may not be the literal mechanical reading of the ability, but I think it fits much better with the theme of the class ability given that each echo is supposed to be you from another reality.
It also doesn't totally invalidate the build as you can use a bonus action to create a new echo each round. You just need to find inventive ways to stay out of the monster's melee range, or risk the attack of opportunity and just walk away.
The Echo is also immune to attacks of opportunity, as it is classified as an object.
@@shanebernier2483 That doesn't make sense to me. Are you saying that someone is not allowed to use their reaction to react to an object moving near them? It would make playing a game of something like American Football hard in the D&D universe if someone could never attempt to intercept a ball that was thrown past them.
Also, the entire point of what I was saying is that I don't think it's appropriate to treat them as objects. Thematically they are reflection of you from an unrealised timeline; therefore, they are a version of you.
If the rules say the echo is an object, that's fine, but it doesn't make thematic sense to me to treat it as an unrelated object, so I personally would treat it as a creature that is, for all intents and purposes, a second version of you.
@@snozgobler If you choose to treat it as a creature, then keep in mind that it should also do things like providing flanking bonuses and allow rogues to qualify for sneak attack, which it currently does not.
Late here so I'll watch this tomorrow, but I'm excited to hear your thoughts. I've dabbled in a mix of these classes (AG and WM), but on a HW ranger chassis, so will be interesting to see similarities and differences
Back now, and I really enjoyed your video! I had similar thoughts when adding in AG and WM to my ranger, the extra abilities really make a difference in play. My build isn't as optimised, only fully coming online at level 16(!), but plays like a standard STRanger while levelling, with extra features thrown in when desired. Probably wasn't ideal levelling plan, but I didn't like the looks of ranger levels 6-10, so started barbarian, got to extra attack with ranger, added in the dips where they'd see the most levels of play, then ground out the remaining levels quickly after the main campaign ended (in AL, quick progression). But I was very MAD, offset by the guarantee of strength weapons.
Main difference, as I don't have access to echo knight, is the distant strike feature of the Horizon Walker, giving me both extra movement and attacks, as well as my main source of defence against the target hit with Ancestral Protectors, letting me get out of there without an opportunity attack. Has good options for bonus actions, though some gambling is involved if risking going for the GWM bonus attack, otherwise can add and convert to force damage with Planar warrior. And good uses of reactions, with War Mage. And a few extra spells through ranger, mostly useful out of combat (PWT, and Silence)
RP, playing as an natural-mystical Norse/Celtic themed rune warrior, guided by his ancestors.
Did you ever revisit this build now that you can freely move racial stat bonuses around? You wanted to do halfling, and now that would be more viable...
This guy is a wizard!!!
If you didn't think a Treantmonk Barbarian would also be a Wizard, you haven't watched enough videos on this channel yet
I just had to check how the Ancestral guardian feature worked, and it's interesting... The way it is worded, the disadvantage vs the echo would work, but due to being an object, the echo wouldn't have resistance to the damage.
Granted, it has 1hp anyway, so it doesn't matter... but still interesting.
The most successful tank I've ever seen was an AG barbarian that took the sentinel feat and the fighting style feat to get interception... He had a way to reduce damage every turn, one at range that used resources, and another in melee for free. I could not deal a significant portion of damage to the party without magic
Path of the Raging Raccoon when?
When the Guardians of the Galaxy campaign setting is released.
I feel like this build comes active at level 10 with the echo. And that is very late for my taste. We really need the second attack so its hard to push any further
Some people may say a good offence is the best defence, but what they are missing is the best offence is the best defence, as you can't do any more damage if you die
and as the best defence is a good offence, and the best offence is a good defence, the best defence is just a good defence xD
I love this build, I also was looking heavily into making a totem barbarian just taking wolf to help my allies instead of bear for my own protection. Was kinda thinking about making it a kobold to get "pack tactics" and "grovel, cower, beg". Would have to figure out how to mitigate the -2 to str though, probably through magic like abilities of other classes or fighter's copious ASIs, warlock and hexblade might be a good choice if all you are doing is eldritch smiting. That way you don't have to care about your cha much. Wolf Totem barbarian is probably as close as I'm gonna get to the cavalier from PF. I think now I have to flesh out this concept with at least 3 lvls of totem barbarian to get that first wolf ability, then some battlemaster fighter. Probably just call the build "HELPING". Throwing in some pally might be good to. Now I'm kinda thinking 7-10 levels of ancients pally, 3 levels of wolf totem barbarian, and the rest could be BM fighter or more of the first two.
Very cool build. Am wracking my brain to see if there is any way to make an altered version of this that is AL legal and still worth playing (echo knight iirc is not AL legal). We used to wonder if a missile-attack AG Barb would be worth playing - could even be dex based and shoot arrows from range (but can't reckless those) - or hurl javelins which iirc are Str based (but short ranged). If he took BM fighter instead of Echo Knight he could impose fear or try to trip it (not a good ST). Or he could take enough rogue to use a b.a. to hide after injuring the target.
If you want to up damage he could go GWM and hope mirror image will keep him alive in tough fights - while using BM's precision to turn those misses caused by GWM's -5 into hits. If you have enough short rests, this might yield good numbers. If this is worth doing it would be a very weird character - who will protect the party but also have some rounds where he really does excessive damage.
Maybe there's another way to alter this for AL and it's worth doing.
Im literally playing a variant of this build in Dungeon of the Mad Mage, except I have polearm master (I know the gm applies my weapon properties and feats to the echo), I dont have wizard levels though. Echo Knight is just so good for denying enemies access to you and your allies
I am building a ancestral guardian/shadow monk. I think it gives a good amount of utility and you can move around the battle field easier.
Chris, wouldn’t you lose your echo each time you “Blinked” due to the distance requirements.?
Just thought here. Swashbuckler could combo well with ancestral guardian. Rage attack and run. Then the bad guy can't hit you and the hit on your friends won't be that bad
Btw what is the alternative to Echo Knight? I kinda feel that adding this class is cheating lol
~ 3:30 Hah! I've just built my first barbarian and I chose the Ancestral Guardian subclass for similar reasons. I'm eager to see how yours compares to mine -- and maybe you'll have some ideas I haven't considered.
"Maybe." 🤦♂️ I meant to say "surely." As written, my comment was pure hubris. 🙈
My hesitation for the Ancestral Guardian was that their abilities are all dependent upon attacks of enemies, making them far less effective against spellcasting enemies. I would think to use the Mage Slayer, but that 5 ft requirement is just too restrictive.
Now that Tasha's has released, I can make my Tanarukk (demonic orc, minotaur like) a reskin of the Satyr to get Magic Resistance and shore up this hole in the Barbarian's defense. This would serve a similar effect to resilient (wis), and though not as powerful for Wisdom saves, it applies far more often.
I could play as just a reskin of Satyr, though I would ask the DM to count as demon rather than fey- which is probably worse for me mechanically. Consult the Spirits would be very entertaining when the ancestor is Baphomet!
I love you Chris!
No builds should rely on echo knight. In my experience, most dms don't understand them and will nerf you on the fly because they panic
I know this is an old video so no one will see this but... The echo will not be protected by the abilities of the ancestral guardian barb. The echo is an object, not a creature.
What do you think about going Tortle and taking Paladin as your third class instead of Wizard? You could throw your DEX and INT into CHA instead. You wouldn't necessarily miss the Resilient Wisdom too much because of your Aura of Protection, and since you're standing by your party, you can get more value out of your Aura of Protection/whichever oath's aura you choose. Probably not as consistently effective from 1-20 as your build, but I think pretty fun once all the pieces come together.
Or ancestral guardian moon druid. That'll really make you the tank.
What's better than one tank? Two tanks. With ancestral protectors. Against a single boss it will have disadvantage on every attack and you'll have resistance to all damage on the chance they do get through.
We can’t stack the effects so only one works.
@@blairbrook1336 Ancestral protectors give disadvantage to any target that isn't the character. If you have two characters with it then they're both covering each other - the disadvantage doesn't stack but the single tank with ancesteral protectors doesn't grant disadvantage an attacks against themselves but the second tank would do it.