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@I_Am_Your_Problem what a disgusting comment. My knee jerk response was to go ahead and delete this but a revolting comment like this shouldn’t be ignored and swept under the rug. So I’ll leave it up for everyone to see. What a pathetic life you live. You sad, insignificant little man.
@@AubreyJanikwhat is interesting, that many people don’t realize, is that the dealerships fixed operations were supposed to cover all of the dealers cost, so that every new car sold from their lot was pure profit. I learned this working for a dealership for a few years in the early 90s in the Columbus, Ohio market
I’ve always likened the “immediate drop” in a cars price to the profit the maker and dealer get. There’s no way an item simply loses that much immediate value because it was purchased. A car with 58 miles on it and owned by Dave is worth the same and as useful as the one at the dealer with 8 miles. There’s is no meaningful difference besides the socially constructed one. We don’t treat houses this way. If I had to sell my new house because of a job six months after it was built and I moved in, the vast majority of folks don’t think or treat the house as some piece of junk worthless garbage. (Yes I get unfortunately cars are more commodities now but they last a lot longer and can hold value. It’s not the late 1970s where it might go 75k miles and then rust into a death trap).
@@Morphling92things are worth what people are willing to pay. It’s a supply in demand thing. Dealers are not saying it’s immediately worth less to them, other consumers are saying they are not willing to buy your just-driven-off-the-lot car off you for the same amount they would buy a new car still on the dealer’s lot. If car consumers felt differently, the market would reflect it. Tell your friends and family to pay more for lightly used vehicles, or buy fewer new cars to force manufacturers to lower MSRP.
@@zazjudo hey pal, unless you actually work for the car industries somehow, you don’t need to be so in love with them. Sure, it’s all simple market supply and demand. It’s like buying a can of soup. 🙄 The market has been conditioned and manipulated to behave this way. This is one of the only industries in the USA with an entire network of “legally mandated” middlemen. They have a monopoly on power controlling how and when new cars are sold. If you think all that drives (pun intended) normal market forces and doesn’t play into driving a car off the lot value loss, man oh man….
@ of course it plays into it, but it’s ultimately up to the consumer to decide how much they are willing to pay for a product. If the demand for a lightly used vehicle was high enough, the value wouldn’t drop as much as it does. I can’t even tell you how many times we try fight that stigma and sell a lightly used car (less than 2,000 miles) for slightly below MSRP and a customer argues that it should be something like $20k less than msrp because it’s a “used car” and its value “should have plummeted after it was driven off the lot.” As long as customers behave as though a car driven off the lot should take a massive hit on its value, that’s the way the market will look.
Have you noticed the whole brainwashing in the auto industry of them trying to normalize the 50K price tag of a new car as being normal. consumers are being conditioned. these vehicles could be sold for half the price and the companies would still make a good profits. I hope EV start ups like Aptera, and Canoo are successful, manufacture direct to consumer, is what we need, the middle men do not serve any purpose or beneficial function to the transaction or consumer, they are just people looking for their cut. a much better model is a delivery agent, they get a fixed % over the transaction to deliver and do the paperwork with the state (tags, registration etc. ).
💔, when I heard the price range 😭. That’s okay I already have a Lightning but I am looking forward to the day that EV pickups are widely available. Remember when the base model Lightning came out at 39k and now I don’t even know how much it has skyrocketed to.
The dealerships need "The Bobs" from Office Space. I've purchased three new cars for myself and two for other people. I've walked *out all five times. I don't NEED their car. They NEED me to buy one.
Interesting that corporations always cry "Free Market!" when you try to put any regulations on them, but as soon as the Free Market takes their customers away, suddenly they don't like it.
A truly freemarket with a direct relationship between the factory and the consumer would result in better product, better prices, less waste, and better financial health all around
Over half the voters think that concealing costs are appropriate. Look at who they voted for. A con man who lies about finance every day. So it's not going to change in at least another four years; but I don't think human nature will ever change. Everyone thinks they should be able to keep THEIR information private, while having everyone else expose theirs.
@jaybleu6169 If ever it did, it was pro'ly before the loss of the gold standard (which turned our nation from a "value" standard to a "debt" standard). Fair point, tho'.
End consumer price has never been related to manufacturer costs except that the costs dictate a minimum price that manufacturers must get to keep from losing money.
@kirkjohnson6638 Incorrect. Consumer prices are _still_ a combination of manufacturer's cost plus w/e for profit (the "minimum price", as you said). All it requires is full disclosure. The lack of transparent accountability is the issue (and price-gouging, ofc).
@@reedburke7762 Every once in a while you can find one who is not like the rest to quote Sesame Street. I have found three in my 50+ car buying life and only one of them is still around. I have bought two cars from my current”favorite” which I have only done a few times before.
@ I had a friend when I was young who had the same job when he was in high school. He was a lot boy and that was part of his job. He used an electric motor in a box with a speedometer cable attached to it. The device didn’t turn back the odometer it moved it forward until it got to the required point. It took a while from what he said but he watched it intermittently and turned it off when it was done. And the hell of it is the dealer is still in business under the same name in the same small town.
The dealership system was ruled unlawful by a federal court in New York in the 1960s. The ruling was appealed and upheld at the appeals court. It was not appealed to SCOTUS as the dealerships realized that there was a very good chance that SCOTUS would uphold it as well. Instead, the ruling has been ignored by AGs in all states, including the State of New York. There is also a federal law passed in 1974 that says if you have cash, you can go to the end of the production line and buy a vehicle off the end of the production line. The manufacturer cannot legally refuse. My mother traveled in 1978 to Flint Michigan and bought a Ford truck for cash off the end of the production line. We then drove home to Washington state. She saved approximately 50% over what a dealership would have charged her for the vehicle.
@@rustcat Here in the Northeast they have figured that one out. I can buy my car 30 miles away in Massachusetts but I have to pay the sales tax here in my state. I can't remember if Massachusetts gets their chunk before my state adds on or whether it's truly you pay in your residence state.
@@kortanulworse yet, the dealership markup only continues to go up when the economy suffers -- and then never comes back down. Our economy is doing leagues better than it was in 2020, but the dealership markups never went back down -- if anything, they're like a ratchet that only goes higher and higher regardless of actual direction of the economy. It's crazy.
*No one needs dealerships anymore, it’s typically just a bunch of high schools drop outs with no knowledge in the vehicle they are selling trying to convince those vulnerable to get on 20%+ APR loans*
AND they are more interested in getting your social security number and other personal data than in making a cash sale. I told a Toyota dealer upfront that I’d walk if they tried that. They tried and I walked.
I recently bought a used car from a dealership. A couple odd things happened while I was at the dealership. In retrospect, I realize they were done to hide the fact that the passenger side door handle was broken and the A/C takes 10-20 minutes to get really cold/probably could use a recharge. The really dumb thing is, they could have just told me about these things. I still would have bought the car. It's an 8-year-old car, I'd expect it to have a couple minor issues. When I wanted to get the car looked at by an independent mechanic, they tried to talk me out of it. When I stood my ground, they told me some cockamamie story about how other people had appointments to look at the car, so I'd better buy it now before someone else did. It was obviously a lie, because when I wanted to take the car to the mechanic, they didn't have any time restrictions (like, "someone's coming to look at it at 10AM, so you'll need to have it back by then.") A number of other minor, white lies were told and attempts were made to create a false sense of urgency so I'd buy right away. Here's the thing, though. The car is in really good shape overall, and the price was under 10K. THEY COULD HAVE JUST BEEN HONEST. If they had been honest with me, I probably would have brought my car back to them for service work. But because they were dishonest, I don't trust them to work on my car. So they've shot themselves in the foot. Dealerships make most of their money on the service department, not car sales.
I worked first for a dealership and then for the corporate auto group for several years and just left last month. I wanted to take a moment and chime in with some possible reasoning for why they acted the way they did. I’m not going to justify or condone lying because that is something I consider a firing offense because of how stupid it is to do. Personally, I did everything I could to talk someone out of taking any vehicle to an independent mechanic. I would rather take them to our service department and have the service manager print out the inspection and repair report. Many independent mechanics will look at you bringing in a used vehicle you want to buy as an opportunity to find everything possible wrong and give you an inflated repair cost estimate. Over the years my customers that came in to look at a vehicle bought at about 50%, the ones that came in and brought their own mechanic bought at about 40%, the ones that took it to a random independent mechanic bought at under 10%. As for the story about other people have appointments on the vehicle, I’d say 50/50 that was a lie. And yeah, even if there was someone with an appointment to come see the vehicle set for 5 minutes after you left with the mechanic, there wouldn’t have been a time frame, or if there was it would be like 4-6 hours and it would suck to be that customer with the appointment assuming they showed up. The reason for that is even if the time frame was generous for a nonbusy mechanic to do a full inspection of the vehicle, any thought that we are trying to rush the inspection is a death knell to a sale. And yes there would have been a sense of urgency created. It might have been real, it might not have. Creating a sense of urgency makes it more likely for you to say yes, that is why scammers pressure you so hard on scam calls and the like. Also making you think a lot of people are interested in the car builds value in the car for you. But also, I have had times where I am pretty sure a car is a perfect fit for a customer and either I or a coworker has someone who is coming in later today saying they will for sure buy the car. My goal with every customer was for them to drive away in the right car for them. Even if I had to fight them to realize what they thought they wanted is not what they want. Long story short, I am not saying that your perspective on the experience was wrong, they might have been shady folk. I am just saying there are some possible legitimate reasons behind their actions.
@waywornwyrm8135 They did not outright lie to me about the things that were wrong with the car, but actions were taken to prevent me from discovering those things. While no lies were told, there was a lie of omission and they were deliberately deceptive. The mechanic I took the car to is my regular mechanic and a long-time friend whom I trust. He found very little wrong with the car, and nothing serious or major. Creating a sense of urgency is a standard practice for sales people. I used to evaluate sales people for a living, so I am familiar with the tactics they use. All I can say is, those guys at the dealership are not as good of actors as they think they are, lol. They will not be winning any Oscars anytime soon. I cannot imagine what kind of idiot would agree to buy a used car without it being inspected by a mechanic who was not associated with the dealership. If you think that's a good idea, I've got a bridge to sell you.
Just to be clear, electric cars are a scam everything about them is proprietary so you can’t repair your own vehicle that you spent well over $50,000 for the batteries in your electric vehicle don’t last longer than 10 years which means at most your vehicle will last you 10 years and then you have to replace the battery pack and essentially buy a new car your car always has to be connected to the Internet so during a blizzard or hurricane or a real natural disaster your car will be completely useless during a power outage. You will not have access to power up your car and you have no way of storing extra energy for your car in case of an emergency whereas a gas vehicle is not only reliable, and a motor can easily been maintained well over 300,000 miles or well over 30 years. A car can also have gas cans stored in the back trunk so that you have actual emergency fuel with you whenever you need it gas vehicles are more easy to repair and there is a bigger infrastructure for repairs throughout the United States for your gas vehicle , ultimately at the end of the day electric cars are billionaires and government officials attempt to take away your rights and freedoms and control your day-to-day life. Just remember every electric car has to have built-in microphones and cameras so that it can operate its self drive feature meaning that every person who has an electric car is essentially a spy mobile for the government everywhere you go everything you say in or around your car is being recorded at all times and I don’t know about you but I like my privacy …. So unless you see, they’re trying to step-by-step take away your rights and your freedoms and your ability to fix your own car to own your own vehicle own the vehicle that you actually paid $50,000 for they’re trying to take away your ability to drive even by making cars self driving and once there are more self driving cars on the road, I’m sure they will pass law to make it illegal for you to drive your own car and the only way you can get around is with self driving cars so wake up peoplefight for your rights and just say no to the scam that is the electric car
Yeah, any dealer that tries to add a sense of urgency to your purchase is an automatic red flag. I'll straight up walk away from any dealer that tries to make it seem like I need to act now or lose an offer.
When I was looking for a new car almost a decade ago, my supervisor offered to help me because he once worked in a dealer before. He was able to guide me through the BS and got me a great price for my Honda with a bunch of features that I still drive today. That dealership was so impressed in how he negotiated that they offer him a job, where they called me to get his contacts. But the reason why he was good at that was not only that he had prior experience, but that he was studying and going in as a Marine recruiter. Obviously he declined and I was there after that call where he share with me that he hated that job and chapter of his life, it's partly why he enlisted: to overcome the sleez that he once was. Yet he continues to help the people he knows to guide through the scams of these dealerships.
Just to be clear, electric cars are a scam everything about them is proprietary so you can’t repair your own vehicle that you spent well over $50,000 for the batteries in your electric vehicle don’t last longer than 10 years which means at most your vehicle will last you 10 years and then you have to replace the battery pack and essentially buy a new car your car always has to be connected to the Internet so during a blizzard or hurricane or a real natural disaster your car will be completely useless during a power outage. You will not have access to power up your car and you have no way of storing extra energy for your car in case of an emergency whereas a gas vehicle is not only reliable, and a motor can easily been maintained well over 300,000 miles or well over 30 years. A car can also have gas cans stored in the back trunk so that you have actual emergency fuel with you whenever you need it gas vehicles are more easy to repair and there is a bigger infrastructure for repairs throughout the United States for your gas vehicle , ultimately at the end of the day electric cars are billionaires and government officials attempt to take away your rights and freedoms and control your day-to-day life. Just remember every electric car has to have built-in microphones and cameras so that it can operate its self drive feature meaning that every person who has an electric car is essentially a spy mobile for the government everywhere you go everything you say in or around your car is being recorded at all times and I don’t know about you but I like my privacy …. So unless you see, they’re trying to step-by-step take away your rights and your freedoms and your ability to fix your own car to own your own vehicle own the vehicle that you actually paid $50,000 for they’re trying to take away your ability to drive even by making cars self driving and once there are more self driving cars on the road, I’m sure they will pass law to make it illegal for you to drive your own car and the only way you can get around is with self driving cars so wake up peoplefight for your rights and just say no to the scam that is the electric car
Worked at a dealership for a few years. The markups on the vehicles are insane, but not near the end of it. Parts are marked up as much as possible too. Plus, the service manager told the techs that no car leaves without a quote for work. Nothing wrong? Find something. The techs were good people who didn’t want to hurt customers, but the management on every team was disgusting. The used car manager was famous for cheap fixes, spray painting rust, and marking up cars to the point of idiocy even for a sales manager. He always said “I don’t need it to run for the next 5 years. It just needs to pass safety inspection and make it down the road.” So glad I don’t work in that industry anymore.
@@williamhanna4823 Have one better my truck didnt have a cabin air filter - i cut the hole and added it - took it to get service and they said i needed a new cabin air filter that didnt come standard with the truck to begin with.
@@williamhanna4823 I got tired of them harassing me for cabin and air filter. So each time I have to take my Jeep for service, I'll stop by the local Walmart, spend about $30 on Fram air and cabin filter, and change them in under 15 mins. They stopped calling me and sending me photos of my "dirty" filters and asking for $180 to change both. Even if I wanted to buy the Mopar filters they recommend, it is still cheaper if I do it myself.
I never worked near the money side of dealerships, but I worked in the washbay of one for a year, and it's pretty wild the price of "optional" accessories. We had a Corvette Z06 come in while I was there and the fancy seats it shipped with were $5,000 a piece. A tonneau cover install on a truck which takes about an hour added something like $1,500 to the price tag. Plenty of $60,000 vehicles with $20,000 of accessories mounted before it even gets on the lot. Also, the pay structure for shop workers is trash, especially for the quick-lube guys. At least at the dealership I was at, shop guys get paid by the quoted hour for the job, so if you take longer than quoted, you don't get paid the extra time, but if you get it done faster, you get paid for time you didn't work. So you get paid more if you rush (though if you go too fast and forget to bolt down the valve cover you might lose your job), and for the poor quick-lube guys who's whole job is to service vehicles as they come in, you could end up with a 10 hour work day where you only get paid for 2 hours because you only got 4 people in needing an oil change that day.
I was told by one dealership that I could only buy from them if I used their financing company. I said, "Okay then." and I walked out the door and went to another dealer to buy my car.
I play dumb with them, "negotiating" a lower sale price or a higher trade in, and they figure they'll get it on the back end. I don't mind sitting through the finance person meeting where I patiently decline every optional service or product, their financing, and dispute any "document" fees or the like. They thought they saw me coming, as the old saying goes. Using my credit union's pre-approved rate, declining all the extra stuff, and getting the title work done myself, I saved about $3000 last time.
@@ChopperChad There is a sales technique used in high end stores, many extremely expensive items are place along side expensive items, and those look like a bargain, this is done on menu items in some restaurants, that 25 dollar meal looks like a bargain when compared to the 50 dollar meal right next to it, the twist is next door that 25 dollar meal is only $15.
40 some yrs ago my grandfather ran a rental car office out of Steve Moore Chevy in Lake Worth FL, (the dealer would pay for a rental for high end customers, long before they had loaner cars). He would tell me how the dealership would take the tires off new cars and replace them with generic. As the customer was walking out the door with the keys to a new car the salesman would say "you know I like you, I'm going to give you a $1000 worth of tires and rims for $250". Then they would put the factory tires back on.
I just went to a Toyota and Chevy dealer. Not one Corvette or Supra, the lots are full of trucks. Scout should make a similarly sized ICE truck and sell it fully loaded for around $40,000. It would shock the market enough to cause massive price cuts, realigning truck prices to their value. We don't need digital dashes and luxuries in most truck models.
I don’t. I buy a low mileage vehicle used with the depreciation on the first owner. I used to think that new was better because of the warranty but learned that every new vehicle was a POS anyway so why pay top dollar.
I'm shopping for a new car right now and got preapproved Financing from my credit Union. The Manager spent a good 10 Minutes warning me about all the ways the Dealers in our area had been lying and trying to screw over thier customers.
@@josephalberta1145it’s fairly common for the salesman to tell you outright the car will be 1k+ more expensive if you DONT finance with them. Fucking ghouls can’t wait to see them jobless begging for a chance at another line of work. I hope they wear their “salesman” badge with pride on their resume so it’s easier for employees to identity the snakes.
Just bought a new car and was told by dealer that they basically make no money on selling car itself, which is why they tack on all the other warranties and packages and other supposed value adds to give them something to profit off of. The problems are: 1) those usually are barely mentioned--and certainly not the price--until you're ready to buy and suddenly the price of the vehicle is 10-15% higher and 2) they are being positioned as "mandatory" and they went through the whole "Well, I have to check with my manager if we can take that off for you..." game. Left a pretty bad taste in our mouth to say the least.
if you want to buy a vehicle new or used and don't take the warranty because it's too expensive then you need less vehicle... if a person can barely make the payment then they mostly won't be able to afford repairs if something breaks. protect your investment as long as you can
You do have to adjust for inflation. When cars were $15,000 people made a lot less money. But adjusting for inflation, those $15,000 cars would be about $24,000 to $26,000 now. Cars have increased in price much faster than inflation and manufacturers have stopped making cheaper cars. And then on top of that the dealers got way out of hand with charges over MSRP during covid.
@@macmcleod1188 i bought a $5,500 Ford in 1982, the list of what it did not have but that will come in the "Affordable" is long, but heres the short list: Auto Trans(5 or 6 gear), A/C, Power Stearing, Power Windows, Radio, Backup camer, cruise control, self stearing. So that 5,500 is worth about 18,000 but if you could find a car with the same options it would cost about 20,000, it's not much more.
The $15k truck *does* exist in the form of the Hilux Champ. It's not likely to ever come to the US, though. I'd buy one in a heartbeat right now, and I'm kicking myself for letting my first gen Tundra go.
A few years ago I worked as a security guard at a dealership. People tend to treat guards as part of the furniture so I witnessed firsthand the business of car sales. I will NEVER EVER buy a car from a dealership. Used or new
I got rid of market adjustments by buying my BMW thru Costco. Only paid sticker plus $750 of extra crap. Better than $10k adjustment other dealers were making customers pay. We financed with BMW to get a few perks then 30 days later refinanced with our credit union at a much better rate.
Just to be clear, electric cars are a scam everything about them is proprietary so you can’t repair your own vehicle that you spent well over $50,000 for the batteries in your electric vehicle don’t last longer than 10 years which means at most your vehicle will last you 10 years and then you have to replace the battery pack and essentially buy a new car your car always has to be connected to the Internet so during a blizzard or hurricane or a real natural disaster your car will be completely useless during a power outage. You will not have access to power up your car and you have no way of storing extra energy for your car in case of an emergency whereas a gas vehicle is not only reliable, and a motor can easily been maintained well over 300,000 miles or well over 30 years. A car can also have gas cans stored in the back trunk so that you have actual emergency fuel with you whenever you need it gas vehicles are more easy to repair and there is a bigger infrastructure for repairs throughout the United States for your gas vehicle , ultimately at the end of the day electric cars are billionaires and government officials attempt to take away your rights and freedoms and control your day-to-day life. Just remember every electric car has to have built-in microphones and cameras so that it can operate its self drive feature meaning that every person who has an electric car is essentially a spy mobile for the government everywhere you go everything you say in or around your car is being recorded at all times and I don’t know about you but I like my privacy …. So unless you see, they’re trying to step-by-step take away your rights and your freedoms and your ability to fix your own car to own your own vehicle own the vehicle that you actually paid $50,000 for they’re trying to take away your ability to drive even by making cars self driving and once there are more self driving cars on the road, I’m sure they will pass law to make it illegal for you to drive your own car and the only way you can get around is with self driving cars so wake up peoplefight for your rights and just say no to the scam that is the electric car
As a consumer i want to buy the vehicle from the manufacturer directly with the options i want with no markup. Dealerships are scams, the practice fraud on lease to own deals, and they are a bloated
Yes, no government taxpayer's money subsidizes the consumer's should drive the market otherwise it's not democracy it's communism 😂 airlines is a little different but not much
The problem is NADA will not allow them to fail. Organizations like NADA exist to make their own money off the dealership, so if the dealerships fail, the oraganization fails. Not going to happen without major shift. Enter Trump/Elon...
Just to be clear, electric cars are a scam everything about them is proprietary so you can’t repair your own vehicle that you spent well over $50,000 for the batteries in your electric vehicle don’t last longer than 10 years which means at most your vehicle will last you 10 years and then you have to replace the battery pack and essentially buy a new car your car always has to be connected to the Internet so during a blizzard or hurricane or a real natural disaster your car will be completely useless during a power outage. You will not have access to power up your car and you have no way of storing extra energy for your car in case of an emergency whereas a gas vehicle is not only reliable, and a motor can easily been maintained well over 300,000 miles or well over 30 years. A car can also have gas cans stored in the back trunk so that you have actual emergency fuel with you whenever you need it gas vehicles are more easy to repair and there is a bigger infrastructure for repairs throughout the United States for your gas vehicle , ultimately at the end of the day electric cars are billionaires and government officials attempt to take away your rights and freedoms and control your day-to-day life. Just remember every electric car has to have built-in microphones and cameras so that it can operate its self drive feature meaning that every person who has an electric car is essentially a spy mobile for the government everywhere you go everything you say in or around your car is being recorded at all times and I don’t know about you but I like my privacy …. So unless you see, they’re trying to step-by-step take away your rights and your freedoms and your ability to fix your own car to own your own vehicle own the vehicle that you actually paid $50,000 for they’re trying to take away your ability to drive even by making cars self driving and once there are more self driving cars on the road, I’m sure they will pass law to make it illegal for you to drive your own car and the only way you can get around is with self driving cars so wake up peoplefight for your rights and just say no to the scam that is the electric car
Two of the three jobs that I walked out of without notice in my 27 years in the workforce were stealerships. I conduct myself with a certain level of integrity, which was something that I couldn't do in such a cesspool of rewarded unethical behavior.
Being german, I find it interesting to see how dealerships in the US seem to work. I'd never buy a car online, because I want a qualified maintainence staff at arms lenght, at least during the warrenty period. In Germany, this works fine. Our dealerships sell at list price, or below, depending on the model and margin. They might throw in some accessoires, pay more for your used turn-in than normal, or offer cars with 1-day registration (which technically makes them used cars). Due to the higher population density in Europe, you will most likely have more then one dealership per brand in your vicinity. I actually had to look up the "markup" stuff, because this was completely foreign to me.
@@Marc0tt0 I haven't bought one lately, but yes, as far as I am aware there is no exception. Configure the model you want with all your desired extras, get the quote from the catalogue/online configurator, and order it for that price. Same as for any other car or brand.
I bought an MG3 hatchback from a dealership in Scotland this year - the first time buying from a dealer, and the first time buying a new car. It was sold at the catalogue price. They upsold us from the base model to the premium one (from £18k to £20k) because the base model would not be available for a few more months. Then when the drivetrain developed a fault after less than 2000 miles, they took it back for repair, kept it for seven weeks, did not provide a courtesy car, and returned the car still partially broken 🙃
Here to pour one out for Saturn. Not quite direct to consumer but fixed pricing was “revolutionary” and close as you were going to get back then. I really loved my manual 1995 Saturn SL1 back in the day. It was 100hp of pure practicality, but it lasted me 12 years with no repairs.
I bought a 2001 Saturn, new (SL2 stickshift), while working at a CPA firm. I got the "one price", borrowed $5000 from a bank (and $5000 from Mom) to buy it, paid it off early, and still have it in late 2024. In 2015, I bought a 2002 SL2 stickshift for cash (used, obviously) and still have that as well in late 2024.
I also had a sl1 that I drove for 150k miles. The downfall was their abandonment of the business model that made them different but profitability was hard to grasp.
My husband's Saturn ran and ran and then finally died. God rest her soul. I'd also like to pour one out for the Scion brand from toyota. Those cars were affordable and built like a brick house (or at least my XD was). It might have been small but my god didn't give the snow and the hill I grew up in the middle finger and make it every time. She was fast too. I wish I had bought her lease out. And now Toyota ended the line. I think they saw people were choosing to save money vs buy their actual expensive Toyotas. Ugh.
@@dougmphilly I don’t know this for sure, but I remember hearing the rumor was that the head of Saturn was forced to abandon all of the things that made Saturn a good brand because Oldsmobile , Pontiac and Buick etc were losing sales and their leadership were basically jealous of Saturn success and tried to sabotage it all. Supposedly he tried really hard to split the company off from GM but in the end, the board wouldn’t let them and they killed the brand. Pretty shortsighted of you ask me.
Nobody cares how the dealerships feel about this... if they dont rip you off on the original sticker price, they rip you off on the over priced repair bills
It was never called "Scout Motors" when the original Scouts were built. It was International Harvester. I live in the city where they were built. The plant had a big "IH" sign on its tower, the same IH branding that was all over the vehicles.
There is a reason only 8% of people have trust in dealerships... There is nothing wrong with running a business and making money, but price gouging, lack of transparency, dealer markups and everything else they do it's insane. They should totally get rid of dealerships all together or FORCE them to be 100% transparent on pricing (this is how much we paid the manufactured for this car and this is how much we can sell it for) I rather the 1st option
Too bad consumer protections are going to be moving backwards for the next 4 years. Biden sucked but one of the rare upsides was appointing Lina Khan into the FTC. She was at least attempting to make positive changes for the consumer.
Yeah, competition is basically literally only good for the consumer. Which, like, good. Thats what the priority should be. But yes, literally every business wishes it was the only one doing what they do. And they only cooperate when they know they'll die otherwise.
I've bought 2 Tesla's in the past year, each time I went on their website, clicked the car I wanted, color, wheels, any extra specs, clicked purchase, then filled out the loan form, it was approved in about 1 minute, and an email came telling me to come pick it up. It took me a total of about 20-minutes to buy the car, there's no negotiating and no hassle. I drove to the Tesla store, the Tesla rep. gave me my key cards and paperwork, and said the car was out back. I went and got in the car and left, it was that simple, and Tesla makes a MASSIVE profit not going through dealers and negotiating price. This is the model for ALL auto sales in the near future and beyond, auto dealers are toast!!
They make a huge profit because there is no negotiation. You're overpaying for your Tesla. You can overpay for any car at a dealership if you decide, "I'll pay the MSRP" and state that right up front, right?
@@MiatalustriumI live in Belgium. Bought my Tesla also online. Cheaper than the competition. If you do not accept their price, go and buy something different, something more expensive that you feel is not overpaid.
@@Miatalustriumyes and no. They will try to run you around on rates, extra “protection” nitrogen filled tires and “door cups” locking lug nuts, extended warranties, glass etching, and never ending extras. They make it a 3 hour process minimum just to try and burn you down so your time is so invested you will agree to anything if it means you can leave. It’s a horrible experience. Even worse if you walk in and tell someone you will pay MSRP. Then they know your an easy mark.
I had one car buying experience at a dealership and at the time it SEEMED okay but in retrospect I was being railroaded into all sorts of extras, and pushed towards unneeded options. And don't get me started about the dealership repair shops. Of course I understand they're doing sales but from a consumer point of view the dealership experience is a nightmare.
I will throw out that my dealership repair shop in my area is one of the rare exceptions from reading peoples responses. I've tried out a few different independent mechanics, and even the same brand dealership in other cities and have had horrible experiences at every single one. They were scammy and over charging me and clearly trying to rip me off, at one place they literally broke a part of my wheel and told me it was just a "risk of the repair" they were supposed to be doing and wanted to charge me full price on the repair plus more to fix what they broke. HAHA! I had one place try to tell me I desperately needed repairs on systems that my *model of vehicle does not even have as an option to install*. When I called them on it they had no response and just stammered for a bit and then told me to leave. Another place that repaired my broken bumper after insurance insisted I go to the cheapest spot told me as I'm leaving they weren't sure if the bumper would actually stay on, but I could come back up to a year out if it started popping off???? But everytime I go back to the original dealership that I got my car from they charge less than anywhere else and are the only ones that do everything I need perfectly the first time, plus I have the assurance they will always have access to the needed parts. I think it might be bc that dealership is known to pay its people well and give good benefits, and so the mechanics in town seem to want to be there and it is run by people who have been there for years. I think I'm just lucky to live somewhere with a dealership owner that has decided cultivating a good reputation is worth it in the difficult car sales market, I know multiple families who will only buy there. Like finding a needle in a haystack but everytime you drive by they are moving people in and out with constant business and I'm gonna stick with them while the current management keeps it up at least.
This video is so good. Clear, concise and the dealership arguments just make sense. Ive been watching your content for a while, and i think you should do more of this! much love
Dealership employee here, the problem with the dealership industry is that it’s ran by salespeople who worked their way to the top. So it’s an industry ran by salespeople, who employ the next generation of salespeople, but have no interest in growing those employee’s skills. And they have utter contempt for customers. In fact, having any sympathy for the customer is viewed as a weakness, and you’ll find yourself out of a salesman job almost immediately. It’s an industry of sharks who will vehemently fight to make sure they keep making more money every year.
I personally hate buying from dealers period. Some folks love it though and enjoy going through the whole give and take of negotiations. I don’t like being lied,to and the whole mysterious guy in the back room that sales people have to consult just aggravates the sh*t out of me. Beside that I don’t enjoy the instant depreciation of driving the car off the lot.
My partner is one of those strange people who actually enjoy buying a car. It stresses me out so badly, I only ever do it when I have no other choice. But he goes in there knowing they’re looking to rip him off, and he likes calling them out when they do. Gives me the willies just thinking about it😩
Dealers are home to some of the most unscrupulous sales people on the planet and I absolutely hate dealing with them. Like other businesses that are going direct-to-consumer, inflation is forcing them out of their old business model. However, don't expect that just because dealerships are out of the picture that you're going to get a better deal from the manufacturers direct - they're going to continue to sell cars at the same prices the dealerships would have and absorb the extra margin for themselves.
I knew a couple of guys who had IH small vehicles back in the 70’s. They both loved their trucks but they finally rusted away. Not of course that that has anything to do with the new VW brand.
@@atticstattic Right, understood, but she stated that Scout was a brand that made vehicles in the 60s-80. Not true, Scout was a model produced by IH. I was merely pointing this out.
@@Rainspector Yes, the semantics are important. While VW owns the Scout brand now, the video implies that it was always Scout Motors when it was International Harvester until the company sadly failed and broke into pieces and largely sold off. I believe Navistar is what became of IH (not positive about that) while everything else was sold. The history of a brand is important to get right if you're going to talk about it. Don't use it as an example if you're not going to honor its history. Perhaps, though, the fact that so many don't seem to care is why we are where we are.
I took my KIA Sportage in for service a few months ago. While I was in there one of the sellers came to the waiting room, where me an about 10 others were waiting, and basically tried to sell us a car by offering free test drives. She started by coming in and asking us who wants help her save her job. She talked for 5 minutes until about 3 of them decided to take her up on the offer. Im pretty sure they did it just to shut her up. She then also came up to each and every one of us to ask if we wanted to test drive.
A friend of mine just bought a new car, and I sat with him while the salesman kept saying "you will get this benefit, if you buy this package, don't you want this benefit?" It's like how EVERY stinking computer game sold today is "pay to win" - the more you pay and pay and pay, the more you win. Same with cars. You want this feature that's already built-in? pay more. Well, all new cars are tracking the hell out of you, uploading your texts to their servers, keeping track of who you called, when, how long, how fast you were going, how many swerves, etc, and selling this data to data-brokers. All this data is about YOU, the car owner, and they're making money off YOU, even after you pay off the car. Hell no. If I ever find myself the owner of one of these new machines, I'm disabling ALL telemetrics. That voids the warranty? Then I won't buy one of these rolling spy devices new.
Heh. I went as the hatchet man with a friend. Whatever the sales and finance guy said, I said no. So many pissed off people. So funny. Great deal on the car with 0% finance. (In 2018)
I can't afford $50-60K for any kind of vehicle. And I won't pay that kind of money, either. Cars and trucks these days are wildly, stupidly overpriced. I'm keeping what I got until it drops.
@@MrMezmerizedif that's the case, its entire segment is unattractively priced. I don't think even their marketing department would try to convince regular consumers that 50-60k is an attractive price for a vehicle.
@@DizzyDiddy I'm probably never going to be able to afford a car in that segment anyway. I'll stick to used cars. A station wagon or perhaps next time a hatchback, depending on the prices. Plenty of space, good fuel efficiency. It's funny station wagons fell out of favour in the US.
I thought Tesla got away with the 'no dealerships' model by calling their product a 'technology platform' and not a vehicle since it has so much tech integrated into the "non-vehicle" models they sell. I've got to agree with you on the repulsiveness of dealerships. I've been in a few the last couple of months trying to get an OTD price on a compact car and they all rebuff me. They insist I give them my 'monthly budget' for a vehicle then sit down with an F&I person to work out financing. I tell them I want to explore outside financing as well and they lie saying they can always do better than a bank or credit union. In reality I just want to pay it in one lump sum with a personal check and a trade-in. They don't want to sell vehicles unless its on their terms, not the customer's terms.
I don't know where you are in the world but here in Australia we have buyer's advocates (brokers). The only time you step foot into a dealership is to test drive cars. Once you've decided what you want, the colour and options etc, you call up the broker and he/she chases down the best price that they can get for you, and it is usually a price that you'll get nowhere close to due to their fleet purchasing power. I've purchased my last two cars via a broker and it's to easy and too cheap to be true.
Tesla has somewhat gotten away with it because they've never before had franchised dealerships. Tesla cannot sell or have service centers in some States, but buyers can purchase online and pick up their new Tesla in another State. All other manufacturers of vehicles in the USA are required to have dealerships because of US franchise laws requiring those dealerships. The dealerships lobby politicians to keep it that way.
that's all businesses. And if they're not giving you a price, it's because there is something about you that they're not taking seriously. I've helped a few friends but new cars and it's been less than an hour in the dealership.
Last time we bought a car from a dealership, they said they would match the outside financing we had. When they came back with the new "matching" contract, they had tried to hide it, but it was going to be $100 more per month! Fortunately we read the fine print and financed elsewhere. For the most part, dealerships are con artists.
Just lie to them. Let them think you are going to finance just long enough for you to see the actual old price. Then whip out your checkbook or walk out the door. It worked well for me a couple years ago. They get angry, but who gives a -----.
This video is very informative. For those who are unclear about this controversy , this decision more than just corporate relationships or corporate strategy .One thing that is not stated explicitly is that dealer lobbying groups have made it ILLEGAL in many states to purchase cars directly from manufacturers.
I live not far from the new Scout plant, everyone locally is excited about it. Didn't expect this video to hit so close to home, but its kinda neat that it did!
I have no problem with direct to consumer, my question is, who does warranty and maintenance work? Are dealerships the evil necessity? What is Scout's legal obligation to it's customer they sold a electro-mechanical machine with a warranty?
What if the manufacturers could sell you cars in a brick and mortar location that also housed mechanics on staff and call them something else ither than dwalerships? Ah! Never thought of that did ya? Novel price winning head meat right here.
Like Tesla? Tesla can do that in many States because they never before had dealerships. Unfortunately for other manufacturers in the USA, the franchise laws prevent it from happening. And, the dealers lobby the politicians to keep it that way.
There is no reason they can't have factory-owned Showrooms and Service Centers augmented by independent certified mechanics who are trained to do the warranty work. In places where Rivian ownership is sparse, they have been using mobile service, which is bascially a Rivian employee mechanic with a van or truck full of tools and parts that they send to customers that are not near a Rivian service center. I don't know if Tesla does mobile, but I think they have a mix of Tesla-owned service centers and certified independents.
Great video. Spot on. I worked for GM for 11 years, so I know dealership operations inside and out. Aubrey knows her stuff. It will be interesting to see how this all works out...
I've purchased my last 3 cars/truck from a private dealer or person. I'll never buy from a major dealership and absolutely will never buy a new vehicle again. The depreciation is just stupid and since I'm not going to drop 30-70k cash on a car/truck, I'm not going to take on a 6-900 dollar monthly payment. My '03 GMC Denali is just about to turn 150k miles and will crank out another 150 easy with minimal cost for any repairs. More to the subject, as a consumer, I should be able to go online and purchase any vehicle I want from any manufacturer. Scout looks awesome! This story reminds me of Tucker and how he created a product that was ahead of its time but was monumentally screwed over by the powers that be.
In my local area (southeast Florida) all Mercedes dealers (for example) have the same owner, so there is no competition. You cannot get good deals because everything is marked up, including the financing. Other regions of the country advertise strikingly better deals than can be gotten here.
The only problem I see with factory direct sales is the need for local service centers for repairs and warranty service. If I buy a Scout, where do I take it for repairs?
International Harvester designed and built the original Scouts. Scouts were discontinued in 1980, but IH continued on. IH became Navistar International in 1986 after selling off all divisions except for the truck division. A few years back Man truck group(VW) purchased Navistar, and just recently changed the name to International Motors.
I don't recall them being a product of Scout Motors. In my recollection of things they were produced by the truck division of International Harvester Corp. I had one of their 1 ton models and my friend had a Scout. Great vehicles and noteworthy mainly for NOT being maintenance hogs.
Want to get the deal done to your satisfaction from a fancy car dealer; make your offer to them. then let 3 small children loose with permission for Jonny, Timmy and Sally to get inside and play in all the cars. Here are your M&Ms kids. Everyone in the family needs to try out their seat in the new vehicle, right. Test the cup holders and such.... Bought a Ford F350 crew cab once new and used that technique. Told them we were there to buy a truck and we would stay and work on the deal till it was to our satisfaction. Told them we had all day set aside to negotiate if needed. Brought 2 small children. Turned them loose in the showroom with a bag of choc chip cookies and milk cartons and permission to explore. We were out of there in 2 hours with the deal done.
Did you ever try the bored wife trick? Saved me about $1500 once on a Volvo. About 30 minutes into negotiations my wife stands up and starts to look out the window. This really unnerves 'em.
"Introducing the new Chevy Luv Truck! manual windows, manual transmission, fuel friendly 4 cylinder, manual mirrors, manual door locks! Come get one today for the insanely low price of $348,000.00, we'll even throw in the plaid seats for no charge!"
“It has a starting price of $19,999*! *not including destination fees ($15,000), dealership market demand adjustment ($47,000), VIN etching ($9,000), ceramic paint coating ($6,899), tax, title and registration.”
Something to keep in mind is that a LOT of localities rely almost entirely on the taxes they pull from taxing the dealerships’ sales. Keep in mind that you will likely have to find another source of funding/taxation to keep your local government solvent.
Most people want a simple car (ex:Scout) to own and drive. What's in the OEM's minds was wrong thinking. And yes dealers greed, has got it shoved up their tail pipes good. Consumers are starting to get smart.
This did miss the rationale for the dealerships model, and the laws that support it, that the relationship between consumers and auto manufacturers was asymmetric (i.e., the manufacturer would have too much power in the relationship). The point from the video still stands that this was from a different time and the model did not work as intended.
My dealership tried to charge me $25 for miscellaneous items under a shop fee for getting my tires rotated. I asked what was miscellaneous? It’s an electric car! I’m not paying $25 for window washer fluid🤬them
Its an operating fee that pays for all the tools and miscellaneous items that people use to work on your car and it gets spread across all of the customers. That socket that took your wheels off on that rotation? Yeah. That came from the shop fee. The lift that put your car in the air? The rags they use to clean things that may get dirty? The air compressor for the impact? The floormats and seat covers? Yeah. Shop fee. If you used the shop, you used the shop fee. Now i will admit, $25 on just the shop fee is a bit much for just a tire rotation. Ours would have been closer to $7.00. But that shop fee 100% actually has a reason to be there. Shops cant operate without it and *someone* has to pay it. So distributing it among the customers that are literally using the things that the fee pays for. Well. Simply makes sense. Edit: also i doubt you were getting charged a shop fee for washer fluid. Actually, at most dealers the washer fluid is complimentary with service and. You wanna take a guess what pays for that? (Its the shop fee)
Buying a Tesla was the best experience. Buy everything online, same price for everyone, no negotiating, easy pickup with no pushy salesman just friendly people if you need help. After so many bad experiences at dealerships, it was stress free and made the whole day fun. All car companies should do the same.
You didn't even mention outrageous markups and "market adjustment" increases among the long list of dealership negatives. If they don't allow direct in my state, I'll drive to another state that does just to avoid dealing with a dealership.
Went to a dealership years ago, trying to find a new light truck to replace my 97 Ranger. The guy totally ignored what I said and showed me a bunch of big trucks. When I reminded him that I want a smaller truck, he said I would have to go through "fleet sales". Never mind, never went back, still have the truck, still working well. Collusion w the "oiligarchy", they want you to use more gas.
As someone commented elsewhere on RUclips - that deal was part of A) a very corrupt government deal with the auto industry which allowed larger trucks to Evade compliance with emissions targets, and B) as retribution against the countries where most 'small' trucks were produced because those same countries were refusing to accept US agricultural products containing higher levels of a bunch of things including (but not limited to) growth hormones in chicken meat and cow milk, preservatives, heavy metals, pesticides, toxic GMOs, foreign animal diseases and so on. It looked like a defeat for Washington at the time and it still does. It turns out that we needed smaller cheaper trucks and they didn't need to eat poison. Go figure.😩
In a direct to consumer marketing system, where does one go for service and repair? Taking a Scout SUV to a Volkswagen dealership seems like a non-starter if they have been sidestepped in the initial sale. Will scout establish repair and parts locations?
The pressure is high because margins soo low. Manufacturers need temporary spaces called dealer lots for product. Or they would have no showrooms. Also where are ppl going to go for maintenance? It's EV.
@@TheZionomo True ! now, I wonder if there's anyway to make the experience at dealerships better. They want to sell you everything, and add more $$ on top of the price for whatever ridiculous item, like scam warranties and nitrogen-filled tires, and when you say no, they come-up with something else.
Exactly. EVs will need their own forms of service and maintenance but the service dept will look very different and likely be smaller, with fewer technicians. It's not going to be profitable on the same basis as current dealer service. There's a whole lot of wishful thinking, that this new/old fangled battery car thing will go away again. I think that's why 47% of dealers are not enthused by selling EVs, they just hope that we'll go back to burning Dinosaur Juice 100%. They've got history in selling those vehicles to US customers and don't see a similar business model working with EVs.
@@raygunsforronnie847 I gotta admit that one of my local Hyundai dealers was pretty damned stoked to sell me an I5 AWD Limited over the summer. The sales person was knowledgeable and enthusiastic. And it was basically here's the MSRP, the dealer gives you $2500 off along with a $7500 Hyundai discount. That's the deal. No BS, straight OTD price.
Question, If there is no dealership, where do you go for warranty & maintenance repair? Because all cars have to be repaired. Case in point, the state I live in was looking at a bill that would allow the sale of vehicles outside of the dealership model. One person who spoke at the hearing in favor of that said how they loved their car, (some electric car that I have never heard of) however that even though the car was just a few years old there was a part that broke and they had to buy a new car from a different company instead of repairing the existing car because the part was not available to repair the car because the company had gone out of business in the couple years since they had bought the car. How many independent electric car companies have come and gone already? Yes dealership car lines have disappeared. Scion, Saturn, Oldsmobile. However, the parent company is still required to service and maintain any warranty work on those. But whos going to repair your no name electric car? Especially when the company goes bankrupt.
Every new car is bought on credit anyhow, price is functionally irrelevant at this point. Especially for and EV with a far longer predicted lifespan and usage model.
No, Polestar is not a brand of Volvo, but it was once a joint venture between Volvo and Geely. Polestar was originally a racing skunkworks for Volvo, but in 2017 it became a standalone electric car brand. Volvo was a 48% shareholder in Polestar, but in 2024 Volvo announced that it would no longer fund the failing Polestar.
Last time I was in the market for a new car, I had a salesman snarl when I balked at the markup over MSRP given on the manufacturer's website and pivoted to buying a lightly used vehicle instead, and didn't get it from him. He felt like just because I had done test drives with him, I was somehow "obligated" to buy from him. His attitude cost his dealership the opportunity to service the vehicle I did get as it was the same brand and having that dealership provide the service would have been convenient as it was near to where I lived at the time.
The last new vehicle I bought was a Chevy Colorado in 2006. Z71 off road package, two wheel drive, lots of options. They had zero interest financing over 5 years with no hidden fees. Great deal. They tried to pull a fast one by already adding life insurance to the paperwork saying I had to in order to get the financing. I said, 'take it off or I leave". The guy said he would have to redo the documents so I got a magazine off the table and said, "I'll wait". Still have the truck.
If I can remove the screens and replace them with gauges, I will buy a Scout. Screens become useless where I live in Alaska. The do not work when its -60.
The way you explained your excitement for Scout Motors is the same way the office receptionist fills out her March Madness bracket. “My cats name is Pepper so I’ll pick Pepperdine to win it all.”
in the 1970's, it wasn't "Scout Motors". "Scout" was a model of a small SUV built by International Harvester (reflected in the name of one of Scout Motor's nameplates) A manufacturer of both trucks and tractors. They also produced pickup trucks, and larger SUV's The International TravelAll competed with the Chevy Suburban, and they also had the panel version called the CarryAll. The name of the vehicle was "International Scout" sort of like "Chevrolet Blazer" Volkswagen is taken the model name and turned it into a manufacturer name, sort of the way Chrysler did with the Eagle model when they bought out AMC. Instead of it being an "AMC Eagle" it was an "Eagle Vision" or "Eagle Premier" or "Eagle Talon" and so on. International Harvester was broken up in 1984, with the tractor division getting the "International Harvester" and the IH nameplate when CASE bought them out. The truck division became Navistar International, and soldiered on until Volkswagen bought them out just here recently, and acquired the "Scout" trademark. International had very good business with medium duty trucks through the 1990's and 2000's, and even built diesel engines for Ford.
I'm a Polestar tech and because Polestar don't have salesperson like legacydealer have, I get lot of questions on how the car works. Who do I bill for the advicework? Or do I shut up and let the customer figure out by self?
The last 2 vehicles I bought were both through AAA (yes, they have a car buying service for their members). It is the best model because they simply put the price tag of the vehicle on their site, or they will contact you when they have found the vehicle you want, and if you can afford it, you go down to their office, sign the papers, and take the car. Even with my last car, which I bought a couple weeks ago and will be making payments on, the entire process took less than an hour, including the test drive. I will NEVER go to a dealership, ever.
I have an EV and am not really looking to change, but I got curious how easy they are making the tax credit. So far I've messaged 3 about transferring the federal used EV tax credit to the dealership, and none of them know how. The really sinister thing is that the process is basically the same if they take it or if the person does. So if they don't know how, it means they won't report the correct info to the IRS and anyone buying from them could be charged with tax fraud or miss the credit.
Enjoyed this video very much. Thanks. Picking up on the stats that consumers are not purchasing as many electric vehicles as once was thought, I am VERY disappointed that the new Scout models are electric, especially for an off-road SUV and truck. I have owned two Scout IIs over the years and I was excited about the resurrection of the brand. That said, I won't be buying an electric version. Any thought that the Scout will be manufactured as a gas engine model any time soon? Once again, thanks for this video.
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@AubreyJanik Ohhh the grift. Materclass... how cute. It may be your body... but it is my choice.
@I_Am_Your_Problem what a disgusting comment. My knee jerk response was to go ahead and delete this but a revolting comment like this shouldn’t be ignored and swept under the rug. So I’ll leave it up for everyone to see.
What a pathetic life you live. You sad, insignificant little man.
@@AubreyJanikwhat is interesting, that many people don’t realize, is that the dealerships fixed operations were supposed to cover all of the dealers cost, so that every new car sold from their lot was pure profit. I learned this working for a dealership for a few years in the early 90s in the Columbus, Ohio market
@@I_Am_Your_Problem Scumbag. Go incel somewhere else.
@@AubreyJanik you go girl, we deserve better, its our choice!
The reason the value of the car drops so much when you drive it off the lot is because it was never worth that much anyway.
It is a market correction 🤝🏻
I’ve always likened the “immediate drop” in a cars price to the profit the maker and dealer get.
There’s no way an item simply loses that much immediate value because it was purchased. A car with 58 miles on it and owned by Dave is worth the same and as useful as the one at the dealer with 8 miles. There’s is no meaningful difference besides the socially constructed one.
We don’t treat houses this way. If I had to sell my new house because of a job six months after it was built and I moved in, the vast majority of folks don’t think or treat the house as some piece of junk worthless garbage.
(Yes I get unfortunately cars are more commodities now but they last a lot longer and can hold value. It’s not the late 1970s where it might go 75k miles and then rust into a death trap).
@@Morphling92things are worth what people are willing to pay. It’s a supply in demand thing. Dealers are not saying it’s immediately worth less to them, other consumers are saying they are not willing to buy your just-driven-off-the-lot car off you for the same amount they would buy a new car still on the dealer’s lot. If car consumers felt differently, the market would reflect it. Tell your friends and family to pay more for lightly used vehicles, or buy fewer new cars to force manufacturers to lower MSRP.
@@zazjudo hey pal, unless you actually work for the car industries somehow, you don’t need to be so in love with them.
Sure, it’s all simple market supply and demand. It’s like buying a can of soup. 🙄
The market has been conditioned and manipulated to behave this way. This is one of the only industries in the USA with an entire network of “legally mandated” middlemen. They have a monopoly on power controlling how and when new cars are sold.
If you think all that drives (pun intended) normal market forces and doesn’t play into driving a car off the lot value loss, man oh man….
@ of course it plays into it, but it’s ultimately up to the consumer to decide how much they are willing to pay for a product. If the demand for a lightly used vehicle was high enough, the value wouldn’t drop as much as it does. I can’t even tell you how many times we try fight that stigma and sell a lightly used car (less than 2,000 miles) for slightly below MSRP and a customer argues that it should be something like $20k less than msrp because it’s a “used car” and its value “should have plummeted after it was driven off the lot.” As long as customers behave as though a car driven off the lot should take a massive hit on its value, that’s the way the market will look.
I remember when 50 - 60k was an attractive price point for a house, not a car.
Have you noticed the whole brainwashing in the auto industry of them trying to normalize the 50K price tag of a new car as being normal. consumers are being conditioned.
these vehicles could be sold for half the price and the companies would still make a good profits.
I hope EV start ups like Aptera, and Canoo are successful, manufacture direct to consumer, is what we need, the middle men do not serve any purpose or beneficial function to the transaction or consumer, they are just people looking for their cut. a much better model is a delivery agent, they get a fixed % over the transaction to deliver and do the paperwork with the state (tags, registration etc. ).
I remember when $25k was an attractive price for a house. I can even remember when $15k was a normal house price.
Yeah yeah. And how much did you earn? My first job out of college, in 1971, I started at $7,800 annually. Two years later, promotion to $9,200.
Yeh well the dollar ain't worth what it used to be.
💔, when I heard the price range 😭. That’s okay I already have a Lightning but I am looking forward to the day that EV pickups are widely available. Remember when the base model Lightning came out at 39k and now I don’t even know how much it has skyrocketed to.
In general, people are fed up with middlemen and their extra costs. Especially when the middlemen don't add any value.
They do try to add value...for their own pocketbooks.
The dealerships need "The Bobs" from Office Space. I've purchased three new cars for myself and two for other people. I've walked *out all five times. I don't NEED their car. They NEED me to buy one.
They do. Cut out the middlemen and you pay sticker price from the manufacturer… like we do everything else.
Rent-seeking is practically a tentpole of the US economy,and globally
Call them what they are, scalpers.
Interesting that corporations always cry "Free Market!" when you try to put any regulations on them, but as soon as the Free Market takes their customers away, suddenly they don't like it.
corporations are paper versions of psychopaths. on the bright side we just put them in charge of the government.
I feel this situation is a little different car dealerships have always been about creating and abusing regulation to limit the free market.
Any big industry player no matter the industry, lobbies and gets insulating laws to protect them from lawsuits and competition
A truly freemarket with a direct relationship between the factory and the consumer would result in better product, better prices, less waste, and better financial health all around
@@scotte2815 Ok, stop watching Sowell videos online lol no real economist takes him seriously
Bring back _actual cost_ for EVERYTHING (vehicles, meds, clothing, etc.). FULL disclosure and transparent accountability should never have gone away.
Over half the voters think that concealing costs are appropriate. Look at who they voted for. A con man who lies about finance every day. So it's not going to change in at least another four years; but I don't think human nature will ever change. Everyone thinks they should be able to keep THEIR information private, while having everyone else expose theirs.
When did it ever exist in the first place?
@jaybleu6169 If ever it did, it was pro'ly before the loss of the gold standard (which turned our nation from a "value" standard to a "debt" standard). Fair point, tho'.
End consumer price has never been related to manufacturer costs except that the costs dictate a minimum price that manufacturers must get to keep from losing money.
@kirkjohnson6638 Incorrect. Consumer prices are _still_ a combination of manufacturer's cost plus w/e for profit (the "minimum price", as you said). All it requires is full disclosure. The lack of transparent accountability is the issue (and price-gouging, ofc).
I am 75. When have dealerships ever “not” screwed their customers at every opportunity. It is a very old game.
Guess it needed a certain external element to show how dirty these dealers are.
@@reedburke7762 Every once in a while you can find one who is not like the rest to quote Sesame Street. I have found three in my 50+ car buying life and only one of them is still around. I have bought two cars from my current”favorite” which I have only done a few times before.
@@KA9DSL External element = getting screwed. Hahahahahaha
My father in law is also 75...His first job was turning back odometers on used cars at a chevy dealership.
@ I had a friend when I was young who had the same job when he was in high school. He was a lot boy and that was part of his job. He used an electric motor in a box with a speedometer cable attached to it. The device didn’t turn back the odometer it moved it forward until it got to the required point. It took a while from what he said but he watched it intermittently and turned it off when it was done. And the hell of it is the dealer is still in business under the same name in the same small town.
when I bought my Tacoma in 2019, I flew 800 miles away to another dealer because my local dealer had a $20k markup
Jesus Christus! For that much money I'd fly to another continent to look!
The dealership system was ruled unlawful by a federal court in New York in the 1960s. The ruling was appealed and upheld at the appeals court. It was not appealed to SCOTUS as the dealerships realized that there was a very good chance that SCOTUS would uphold it as well. Instead, the ruling has been ignored by AGs in all states, including the State of New York. There is also a federal law passed in 1974 that says if you have cash, you can go to the end of the production line and buy a vehicle off the end of the production line. The manufacturer cannot legally refuse. My mother traveled in 1978 to Flint Michigan and bought a Ford truck for cash off the end of the production line. We then drove home to Washington state. She saved approximately 50% over what a dealership would have charged her for the vehicle.
In North Texas it's always cheaper to take a trip to OKC or Little Rock. Saves some tax too as soon as you leave the big cities.
@@rustcat Here in the Northeast they have figured that one out. I can buy my car 30 miles away in Massachusetts but I have to pay the sales tax here in my state. I can't remember if Massachusetts gets their chunk before my state adds on or whether it's truly you pay in your residence state.
LMAO smart move
Dealers are outraged that they won't be able to screw the customer over.
Only had to buy cars from dealers, lots, when I was down on my luck. HAD to buy something.
Manufacturer: No one's buying this model
Dealership: With this 30k markup we're making so much profit we only need to sell two
@@kortanulworse yet, the dealership markup only continues to go up when the economy suffers -- and then never comes back down. Our economy is doing leagues better than it was in 2020, but the dealership markups never went back down -- if anything, they're like a ratchet that only goes higher and higher regardless of actual direction of the economy. It's crazy.
*No one needs dealerships anymore, it’s typically just a bunch of high schools drop outs with no knowledge in the vehicle they are selling trying to convince those vulnerable to get on 20%+ APR loans*
AND they are more interested in getting your social security number and other personal data than in making a cash sale. I told a Toyota dealer upfront that I’d walk if they tried that. They tried and I walked.
I recently bought a used car from a dealership. A couple odd things happened while I was at the dealership. In retrospect, I realize they were done to hide the fact that the passenger side door handle was broken and the A/C takes 10-20 minutes to get really cold/probably could use a recharge.
The really dumb thing is, they could have just told me about these things. I still would have bought the car. It's an 8-year-old car, I'd expect it to have a couple minor issues.
When I wanted to get the car looked at by an independent mechanic, they tried to talk me out of it. When I stood my ground, they told me some cockamamie story about how other people had appointments to look at the car, so I'd better buy it now before someone else did. It was obviously a lie, because when I wanted to take the car to the mechanic, they didn't have any time restrictions (like, "someone's coming to look at it at 10AM, so you'll need to have it back by then.")
A number of other minor, white lies were told and attempts were made to create a false sense of urgency so I'd buy right away.
Here's the thing, though. The car is in really good shape overall, and the price was under 10K. THEY COULD HAVE JUST BEEN HONEST. If they had been honest with me, I probably would have brought my car back to them for service work. But because they were dishonest, I don't trust them to work on my car. So they've shot themselves in the foot. Dealerships make most of their money on the service department, not car sales.
I worked first for a dealership and then for the corporate auto group for several years and just left last month. I wanted to take a moment and chime in with some possible reasoning for why they acted the way they did. I’m not going to justify or condone lying because that is something I consider a firing offense because of how stupid it is to do.
Personally, I did everything I could to talk someone out of taking any vehicle to an independent mechanic. I would rather take them to our service department and have the service manager print out the inspection and repair report. Many independent mechanics will look at you bringing in a used vehicle you want to buy as an opportunity to find everything possible wrong and give you an inflated repair cost estimate. Over the years my customers that came in to look at a vehicle bought at about 50%, the ones that came in and brought their own mechanic bought at about 40%, the ones that took it to a random independent mechanic bought at under 10%.
As for the story about other people have appointments on the vehicle, I’d say 50/50 that was a lie. And yeah, even if there was someone with an appointment to come see the vehicle set for 5 minutes after you left with the mechanic, there wouldn’t have been a time frame, or if there was it would be like 4-6 hours and it would suck to be that customer with the appointment assuming they showed up. The reason for that is even if the time frame was generous for a nonbusy mechanic to do a full inspection of the vehicle, any thought that we are trying to rush the inspection is a death knell to a sale.
And yes there would have been a sense of urgency created. It might have been real, it might not have. Creating a sense of urgency makes it more likely for you to say yes, that is why scammers pressure you so hard on scam calls and the like. Also making you think a lot of people are interested in the car builds value in the car for you. But also, I have had times where I am pretty sure a car is a perfect fit for a customer and either I or a coworker has someone who is coming in later today saying they will for sure buy the car. My goal with every customer was for them to drive away in the right car for them. Even if I had to fight them to realize what they thought they wanted is not what they want.
Long story short, I am not saying that your perspective on the experience was wrong, they might have been shady folk. I am just saying there are some possible legitimate reasons behind their actions.
@waywornwyrm8135 They did not outright lie to me about the things that were wrong with the car, but actions were taken to prevent me from discovering those things. While no lies were told, there was a lie of omission and they were deliberately deceptive. The mechanic I took the car to is my regular mechanic and a long-time friend whom I trust. He found very little wrong with the car, and nothing serious or major.
Creating a sense of urgency is a standard practice for sales people. I used to evaluate sales people for a living, so I am familiar with the tactics they use. All I can say is, those guys at the dealership are not as good of actors as they think they are, lol. They will not be winning any Oscars anytime soon.
I cannot imagine what kind of idiot would agree to buy a used car without it being inspected by a mechanic who was not associated with the dealership. If you think that's a good idea, I've got a bridge to sell you.
Just to be clear, electric cars are a scam everything about them is proprietary so you can’t repair your own vehicle that you spent well over $50,000 for the batteries in your electric vehicle don’t last longer than 10 years which means at most your vehicle will last you 10 years and then you have to replace the battery pack and essentially buy a new car your car always has to be connected to the Internet so during a blizzard or hurricane or a real natural disaster your car will be completely useless during a power outage. You will not have access to power up your car and you have no way of storing extra energy for your car in case of an emergency whereas a gas vehicle is not only reliable, and a motor can easily been maintained well over 300,000 miles or well over 30 years. A car can also have gas cans stored in the back trunk so that you have actual emergency fuel with you whenever you need it gas vehicles are more easy to repair and there is a bigger infrastructure for repairs throughout the United States for your gas vehicle , ultimately at the end of the day electric cars are billionaires and government officials attempt to take away your rights and freedoms and control your day-to-day life. Just remember every electric car has to have built-in microphones and cameras so that it can operate its self drive feature meaning that every person who has an electric car is essentially a spy mobile for the government everywhere you go everything you say in or around your car is being recorded at all times and I don’t know about you but I like my privacy …. So unless you see, they’re trying to step-by-step take away your rights and your freedoms and your ability to fix your own car to own your own vehicle own the vehicle that you actually paid $50,000 for they’re trying to take away your ability to drive even by making cars self driving and once there are more self driving cars on the road, I’m sure they will pass law to make it illegal for you to drive your own car and the only way you can get around is with self driving cars so wake up peoplefight for your rights and just say no to the scam that is the electric car
Yeah, any dealer that tries to add a sense of urgency to your purchase is an automatic red flag. I'll straight up walk away from any dealer that tries to make it seem like I need to act now or lose an offer.
@waywornwyrm8135 i wouldn't want your guys to inspect the vehicle. There's a massive conflict of interest there.
When I was looking for a new car almost a decade ago, my supervisor offered to help me because he once worked in a dealer before. He was able to guide me through the BS and got me a great price for my Honda with a bunch of features that I still drive today. That dealership was so impressed in how he negotiated that they offer him a job, where they called me to get his contacts. But the reason why he was good at that was not only that he had prior experience, but that he was studying and going in as a Marine recruiter.
Obviously he declined and I was there after that call where he share with me that he hated that job and chapter of his life, it's partly why he enlisted: to overcome the sleez that he once was. Yet he continues to help the people he knows to guide through the scams of these dealerships.
Just to be clear, electric cars are a scam everything about them is proprietary so you can’t repair your own vehicle that you spent well over $50,000 for the batteries in your electric vehicle don’t last longer than 10 years which means at most your vehicle will last you 10 years and then you have to replace the battery pack and essentially buy a new car your car always has to be connected to the Internet so during a blizzard or hurricane or a real natural disaster your car will be completely useless during a power outage. You will not have access to power up your car and you have no way of storing extra energy for your car in case of an emergency whereas a gas vehicle is not only reliable, and a motor can easily been maintained well over 300,000 miles or well over 30 years. A car can also have gas cans stored in the back trunk so that you have actual emergency fuel with you whenever you need it gas vehicles are more easy to repair and there is a bigger infrastructure for repairs throughout the United States for your gas vehicle , ultimately at the end of the day electric cars are billionaires and government officials attempt to take away your rights and freedoms and control your day-to-day life. Just remember every electric car has to have built-in microphones and cameras so that it can operate its self drive feature meaning that every person who has an electric car is essentially a spy mobile for the government everywhere you go everything you say in or around your car is being recorded at all times and I don’t know about you but I like my privacy …. So unless you see, they’re trying to step-by-step take away your rights and your freedoms and your ability to fix your own car to own your own vehicle own the vehicle that you actually paid $50,000 for they’re trying to take away your ability to drive even by making cars self driving and once there are more self driving cars on the road, I’m sure they will pass law to make it illegal for you to drive your own car and the only way you can get around is with self driving cars so wake up peoplefight for your rights and just say no to the scam that is the electric car
Worked at a dealership for a few years. The markups on the vehicles are insane, but not near the end of it. Parts are marked up as much as possible too. Plus, the service manager told the techs that no car leaves without a quote for work. Nothing wrong? Find something. The techs were good people who didn’t want to hurt customers, but the management on every team was disgusting. The used car manager was famous for cheap fixes, spray painting rust, and marking up cars to the point of idiocy even for a sales manager. He always said “I don’t need it to run for the next 5 years. It just needs to pass safety inspection and make it down the road.” So glad I don’t work in that industry anymore.
Try to get out of there without changing your cabin air filter.
@@williamhanna4823 Have one better my truck didnt have a cabin air filter - i cut the hole and added it - took it to get service and they said i needed a new cabin air filter that didnt come standard with the truck to begin with.
@@williamhanna4823 I got tired of them harassing me for cabin and air filter. So each time I have to take my Jeep for service, I'll stop by the local Walmart, spend about $30 on Fram air and cabin filter, and change them in under 15 mins. They stopped calling me and sending me photos of my "dirty" filters and asking for $180 to change both. Even if I wanted to buy the Mopar filters they recommend, it is still cheaper if I do it myself.
I never worked near the money side of dealerships, but I worked in the washbay of one for a year, and it's pretty wild the price of "optional" accessories. We had a Corvette Z06 come in while I was there and the fancy seats it shipped with were $5,000 a piece. A tonneau cover install on a truck which takes about an hour added something like $1,500 to the price tag. Plenty of $60,000 vehicles with $20,000 of accessories mounted before it even gets on the lot. Also, the pay structure for shop workers is trash, especially for the quick-lube guys. At least at the dealership I was at, shop guys get paid by the quoted hour for the job, so if you take longer than quoted, you don't get paid the extra time, but if you get it done faster, you get paid for time you didn't work. So you get paid more if you rush (though if you go too fast and forget to bolt down the valve cover you might lose your job), and for the poor quick-lube guys who's whole job is to service vehicles as they come in, you could end up with a 10 hour work day where you only get paid for 2 hours because you only got 4 people in needing an oil change that day.
Hyundai quoted me $500 for a starter and another $400 in labor. Needless to say I didn't enrich the local dealer with my money and did it myself.
I was told by one dealership that I could only buy from them if I used their financing company. I said, "Okay then." and I walked out the door and went to another dealer to buy my car.
I play dumb with them, "negotiating" a lower sale price or a higher trade in, and they figure they'll get it on the back end. I don't mind sitting through the finance person meeting where I patiently decline every optional service or product, their financing, and dispute any "document" fees or the like. They thought they saw me coming, as the old saying goes. Using my credit union's pre-approved rate, declining all the extra stuff, and getting the title work done myself, I saved about $3000 last time.
I always tell them, "If I needed to finance a car, I wouldn't be buying one. Literally."
@@michaelmoore7975 Same here. I always pay cash for my vehicles. Always.
Liar.
@@I_Am_Your_Problemprojection.
I can't get past the phrase "attractive price point in the 50-60,000 dollar range". There's nothing attractive about that.
Its price is lower than its competitors
@@ChopperChad There is a sales technique used in high end stores, many extremely expensive items are place along side expensive items, and those look like a bargain, this is done on menu items in some restaurants, that 25 dollar meal looks like a bargain when compared to the 50 dollar meal right next to it, the twist is next door that 25 dollar meal is only $15.
Bruh I was flabbergasted.
Maybe for a Cadillac or a Lexus. But not a Ford.
@@worldofdoom995 no trucks are $80 to $90 thousand now new . I remember 25 years ago you could get new truck for $25,000 .
40 some yrs ago my grandfather ran a rental car office out of Steve Moore Chevy in Lake Worth FL, (the dealer would pay for a rental for high end customers, long before they had loaner cars). He would tell me how the dealership would take the tires off new cars and replace them with generic. As the customer was walking out the door with the keys to a new car the salesman would say "you know I like you, I'm going to give you a $1000 worth of tires and rims for $250". Then they would put the factory tires back on.
I just went to a Toyota and Chevy dealer. Not one Corvette or Supra, the lots are full of trucks. Scout should make a similarly sized ICE truck and sell it fully loaded for around $40,000. It would shock the market enough to cause massive price cuts, realigning truck prices to their value.
We don't need digital dashes and luxuries in most truck models.
Customers shouldn’t be forced to buy from dealerships. It’s an old business model.
I don’t. I buy a low mileage vehicle used with the depreciation on the first owner. I used to think that new was better because of the warranty but learned that every new vehicle was a POS anyway so why pay top dollar.
@@TheMonkdad I only buy new. But in Europe we do not have to buy from a dealer. Since the event of Tesla i have ditched all others.
I don't know you, but I think you typed 'business' when you meant 'extortion'.
Good luck! Dealerships can be found in each congressional district, and a fair $ share is spent on "contributions".
And corrupt business model.
VW missed the easiest trick ever not calling an EV arm "Voltswagen".
Really shocking!
You need to trademark that! And fast…
Good one!
@@JimmyMac1955
Keep trying!! Your joke has potential.
Good one!
I'm shopping for a new car right now and got preapproved Financing from my credit Union. The Manager spent a good 10 Minutes warning me about all the ways the Dealers in our area had been lying and trying to screw over thier customers.
Dont tell the dealer you are paying cash or they will want more money for the car.
Before you go shopping, watch all the videos you can by Kevin Hunter. He will save you THOUSANDs of dollars!
@@josephalberta1145… how do you buy it since that conversation is inevitable?
@@josephalberta1145it’s fairly common for the salesman to tell you outright the car will be 1k+ more expensive if you DONT finance with them. Fucking ghouls can’t wait to see them jobless begging for a chance at another line of work. I hope they wear their “salesman” badge with pride on their resume so it’s easier for employees to identity the snakes.
Credit union guy screwed you on terms too
Just bought a new car and was told by dealer that they basically make no money on selling car itself, which is why they tack on all the other warranties and packages and other supposed value adds to give them something to profit off of. The problems are: 1) those usually are barely mentioned--and certainly not the price--until you're ready to buy and suddenly the price of the vehicle is 10-15% higher and 2) they are being positioned as "mandatory" and they went through the whole "Well, I have to check with my manager if we can take that off for you..." game. Left a pretty bad taste in our mouth to say the least.
if you want to buy a vehicle new or used and don't take the warranty because it's too expensive then you need less vehicle...
if a person can barely make the payment then they mostly won't be able to afford repairs if something breaks. protect your investment as long as you can
I’m not a giant fan of EV’s, but I definitely like this trend of DTC they’re doing.
Until you drive an EV you won’t get it. But once you drive an EV, even once, you’ll know why it’s the future.
@ Yeah….but I don’t Want one. So why would I drive one xD
@@daxisperry7644 drive one just once. Then decide.
@@therealcmjyeah I have one going back traditional. It’s a money pit 🙄
Dealers are crooks. The past 5 years have been "MARKET ADJUSTMENTS" above sticker, welcome to karma.
They screwed themselves. No w they're paying for it.
Indeed they are! It's been vindicating watching the stealerships fail just b/c of their own greed
Just about every retailer has done this, for almost everything we buy. I knew when prices went up with Covid that they’d never come back down😞
If people are willing to pay more for a car than the manufacturer RECOMMENDS then that means the manufacturer has RECOMMENDED a price that is too low.
@@joecoolioness6399 what dealership do you work for? 🤣
$50,000 to $60,000. Affordable range she says.
Affordable.
Remember sub $15K prices?
Pepperidge Farm Remembers.
You do have to adjust for inflation. When cars were $15,000 people made a lot less money.
But adjusting for inflation, those $15,000 cars would be about $24,000 to $26,000 now.
Cars have increased in price much faster than inflation and manufacturers have stopped making cheaper cars.
And then on top of that the dealers got way out of hand with charges over MSRP during covid.
@@macmcleod1188 Cultists don't do that, they just dream of the past when they think murica was great. No accounting for the reality they live in.
@@macmcleod1188 i bought a $5,500 Ford in 1982, the list of what it did not have but that will come in the "Affordable" is long, but heres the short list: Auto Trans(5 or 6 gear), A/C, Power Stearing, Power Windows, Radio, Backup camer, cruise control, self stearing. So that 5,500 is worth about 18,000 but if you could find a car with the same options it would cost about 20,000, it's not much more.
The $15k truck *does* exist in the form of the Hilux Champ. It's not likely to ever come to the US, though. I'd buy one in a heartbeat right now, and I'm kicking myself for letting my first gen Tundra go.
I member! I member!
A few years ago I worked as a security guard at a dealership. People tend to treat guards as part of the furniture so I witnessed firsthand the business of car sales. I will NEVER EVER buy a car from a dealership. Used or new
My last new car was a Saturn. No BS. I miss them 😔
Thank you. I worked in a car dealership when I was young, but not for long. Their business practices were appalling.
I got rid of market adjustments by buying my BMW thru Costco. Only paid sticker plus $750 of extra crap. Better than $10k adjustment other dealers were making customers pay. We financed with BMW to get a few perks then 30 days later refinanced with our credit union at a much better rate.
Just to be clear, electric cars are a scam everything about them is proprietary so you can’t repair your own vehicle that you spent well over $50,000 for the batteries in your electric vehicle don’t last longer than 10 years which means at most your vehicle will last you 10 years and then you have to replace the battery pack and essentially buy a new car your car always has to be connected to the Internet so during a blizzard or hurricane or a real natural disaster your car will be completely useless during a power outage. You will not have access to power up your car and you have no way of storing extra energy for your car in case of an emergency whereas a gas vehicle is not only reliable, and a motor can easily been maintained well over 300,000 miles or well over 30 years. A car can also have gas cans stored in the back trunk so that you have actual emergency fuel with you whenever you need it gas vehicles are more easy to repair and there is a bigger infrastructure for repairs throughout the United States for your gas vehicle , ultimately at the end of the day electric cars are billionaires and government officials attempt to take away your rights and freedoms and control your day-to-day life. Just remember every electric car has to have built-in microphones and cameras so that it can operate its self drive feature meaning that every person who has an electric car is essentially a spy mobile for the government everywhere you go everything you say in or around your car is being recorded at all times and I don’t know about you but I like my privacy …. So unless you see, they’re trying to step-by-step take away your rights and your freedoms and your ability to fix your own car to own your own vehicle own the vehicle that you actually paid $50,000 for they’re trying to take away your ability to drive even by making cars self driving and once there are more self driving cars on the road, I’m sure they will pass law to make it illegal for you to drive your own car and the only way you can get around is with self driving cars so wake up peoplefight for your rights and just say no to the scam that is the electric car
This is fascinating. I just became a Costco member and didn't know you could buy cars from them too.😊
As a consumer i want to buy the vehicle from the manufacturer directly with the options i want with no markup. Dealerships are scams, the practice fraud on lease to own deals, and they are a bloated
30 years dealer experience here, screw em, let em fail.
Yes, no government taxpayer's money subsidizes the consumer's should drive the market otherwise it's not democracy it's communism 😂 airlines is a little different but not much
The problem is NADA will not allow them to fail. Organizations like NADA exist to make their own money off the dealership, so if the dealerships fail, the oraganization fails. Not going to happen without major shift. Enter Trump/Elon...
Just to be clear, electric cars are a scam everything about them is proprietary so you can’t repair your own vehicle that you spent well over $50,000 for the batteries in your electric vehicle don’t last longer than 10 years which means at most your vehicle will last you 10 years and then you have to replace the battery pack and essentially buy a new car your car always has to be connected to the Internet so during a blizzard or hurricane or a real natural disaster your car will be completely useless during a power outage. You will not have access to power up your car and you have no way of storing extra energy for your car in case of an emergency whereas a gas vehicle is not only reliable, and a motor can easily been maintained well over 300,000 miles or well over 30 years. A car can also have gas cans stored in the back trunk so that you have actual emergency fuel with you whenever you need it gas vehicles are more easy to repair and there is a bigger infrastructure for repairs throughout the United States for your gas vehicle , ultimately at the end of the day electric cars are billionaires and government officials attempt to take away your rights and freedoms and control your day-to-day life. Just remember every electric car has to have built-in microphones and cameras so that it can operate its self drive feature meaning that every person who has an electric car is essentially a spy mobile for the government everywhere you go everything you say in or around your car is being recorded at all times and I don’t know about you but I like my privacy …. So unless you see, they’re trying to step-by-step take away your rights and your freedoms and your ability to fix your own car to own your own vehicle own the vehicle that you actually paid $50,000 for they’re trying to take away your ability to drive even by making cars self driving and once there are more self driving cars on the road, I’m sure they will pass law to make it illegal for you to drive your own car and the only way you can get around is with self driving cars so wake up peoplefight for your rights and just say no to the scam that is the electric car
Two of the three jobs that I walked out of without notice in my 27 years in the workforce were stealerships. I conduct myself with a certain level of integrity, which was something that I couldn't do in such a cesspool of rewarded unethical behavior.
Good for you. Well said 👍
Respect. Not a lot of people have integrity in this age of the psychopath.
I would not cry one tear if they ALL went out of business. There is no such thing as an honest car dealer.
In the late 90s my uncle bought a house for 94k after he came from Cuba to the USA… nowadays dealerships want people to pay 100k for a glorified jeep😂
Scout motors? You mean International Harvester. That’s like calling Chevrolet “Silverado Motors”
Being german, I find it interesting to see how dealerships in the US seem to work. I'd never buy a car online, because I want a qualified maintainence staff at arms lenght, at least during the warrenty period. In Germany, this works fine. Our dealerships sell at list price, or below, depending on the model and margin. They might throw in some accessoires, pay more for your used turn-in than normal, or offer cars with 1-day registration (which technically makes them used cars).
Due to the higher population density in Europe, you will most likely have more then one dealership per brand in your vicinity. I actually had to look up the "markup" stuff, because this was completely foreign to me.
Porsche sell at list price in Germany ?
@@Marc0tt0 I haven't bought one lately, but yes, as far as I am aware there is no exception. Configure the model you want with all your desired extras, get the quote from the catalogue/online configurator, and order it for that price. Same as for any other car or brand.
I bought an MG3 hatchback from a dealership in Scotland this year - the first time buying from a dealer, and the first time buying a new car. It was sold at the catalogue price. They upsold us from the base model to the premium one (from £18k to £20k) because the base model would not be available for a few more months.
Then when the drivetrain developed a fault after less than 2000 miles, they took it back for repair, kept it for seven weeks, did not provide a courtesy car, and returned the car still partially broken 🙃
As an American, i feel the same as you.
@@RoamingAdhocratthat's the MG experience, unfortunately. Chinese customer service.
Here to pour one out for Saturn. Not quite direct to consumer but fixed pricing was “revolutionary” and close as you were going to get back then. I really loved my manual 1995 Saturn SL1 back in the day. It was 100hp of pure practicality, but it lasted me 12 years with no repairs.
I bought a 2001 Saturn, new (SL2 stickshift), while working at a CPA firm. I got the "one price", borrowed $5000 from a bank (and $5000 from Mom) to buy it, paid it off early, and still have it in late 2024. In 2015, I bought a 2002 SL2 stickshift for cash (used, obviously) and still have that as well in late 2024.
I also had a sl1 that I drove for 150k miles. The downfall was their abandonment of the business model that made them different but profitability was hard to grasp.
I had a green LS and it was awesome.
My husband's Saturn ran and ran and then finally died. God rest her soul. I'd also like to pour one out for the Scion brand from toyota. Those cars were affordable and built like a brick house (or at least my XD was). It might have been small but my god didn't give the snow and the hill I grew up in the middle finger and make it every time. She was fast too. I wish I had bought her lease out. And now Toyota ended the line. I think they saw people were choosing to save money vs buy their actual expensive Toyotas. Ugh.
@@dougmphilly I don’t know this for sure, but I remember hearing the rumor was that the head of Saturn was forced to abandon all of the things that made Saturn a good brand because Oldsmobile , Pontiac and Buick etc were losing sales and their leadership were basically jealous of Saturn success and tried to sabotage it all. Supposedly he tried really hard to split the company off from GM but in the end, the board wouldn’t let them and they killed the brand. Pretty shortsighted of you ask me.
Hence “dealership” has been replaced by “StealerShip” in normal conversations around here.
Nobody cares how the dealerships feel about this... if they dont rip you off on the original sticker price, they rip you off on the over priced repair bills
But…but…if I don’t get my car from a dealership, where will I be able to buy the magic undercoating? 🤣
It was never called "Scout Motors" when the original Scouts were built. It was International Harvester. I live in the city where they were built. The plant had a big "IH" sign on its tower, the same IH branding that was all over the vehicles.
She's still wet behind the ears, the rest of us remember the IH badge on the fender and drove them.😂
Thank you, every channel keeps calling it Scout Motors and it was never called that. It was always IH.
Yeah it was IH… scout was one mode
Thank you
Thank you! I couldn't quite remember even though I knew it wasn't Scout.
There is a reason only 8% of people have trust in dealerships... There is nothing wrong with running a business and making money, but price gouging, lack of transparency, dealer markups and everything else they do it's insane. They should totally get rid of dealerships all together or FORCE them to be 100% transparent on pricing (this is how much we paid the manufactured for this car and this is how much we can sell it for) I rather the 1st option
Fr who is in that 8%?!
@@ladyeowyn42the suckers that didn't know they got scammed by a stealership and the ultra wealthy that get great service regardless 🤷♀️
Too bad consumer protections are going to be moving backwards for the next 4 years. Biden sucked but one of the rare upsides was appointing Lina Khan into the FTC. She was at least attempting to make positive changes for the consumer.
@@ladyeowyn42 Idiots.
It’s not hard to deal with dealers, you just need to be willing to walk right up until when you sign.
It's insane that the VW dealerships are suing VW over a brand they don't sell smh greedy
VW Managers in Europe sued VW for higher salary and more vacation time. They lost at the courts. What a bummer!
No business is pro competition, every business wants to be a monopoly, that's how you make the most money, which is what business is for.
Ding ding ding. And most consumers are idiots.
That's the nature of people - greed - trying to take over the world. Like Pinky and The Brain.
Yeah, competition is basically literally only good for the consumer.
Which, like, good. Thats what the priority should be.
But yes, literally every business wishes it was the only one doing what they do.
And they only cooperate when they know they'll die otherwise.
"Affordable" - 50k to 60k.
LOL
I've bought 2 Tesla's in the past year, each time I went on their website, clicked the car I wanted, color, wheels, any extra specs, clicked purchase, then filled out the loan form, it was approved in about 1 minute, and an email came telling me to come pick it up. It took me a total of about 20-minutes to buy the car, there's no negotiating and no hassle. I drove to the Tesla store, the Tesla rep. gave me my key cards and paperwork, and said the car was out back. I went and got in the car and left, it was that simple, and Tesla makes a MASSIVE profit not going through dealers and negotiating price. This is the model for ALL auto sales in the near future and beyond, auto dealers are toast!!
They make a huge profit because there is no negotiation. You're overpaying for your Tesla. You can overpay for any car at a dealership if you decide, "I'll pay the MSRP" and state that right up front, right?
But no undercoating?!? No scotchguard?!? Say it ain’t so!😮😂
@@MiatalustriumI live in Belgium. Bought my Tesla also online. Cheaper than the competition. If you do not accept their price, go and buy something different, something more expensive that you feel is not overpaid.
@@Miatalustriumyes and no. They will try to run you around on rates, extra “protection” nitrogen filled tires and “door cups” locking lug nuts, extended warranties, glass etching, and never ending extras. They make it a 3 hour process minimum just to try and burn you down so your time is so invested you will agree to anything if it means you can leave. It’s a horrible experience. Even worse if you walk in and tell someone you will pay MSRP. Then they know your an easy mark.
You have too much money 😂😂😂😂😂
I had one car buying experience at a dealership and at the time it SEEMED okay but in retrospect I was being railroaded into all sorts of extras, and pushed towards unneeded options. And don't get me started about the dealership repair shops. Of course I understand they're doing sales but from a consumer point of view the dealership experience is a nightmare.
The dealership repair shops are the worst. They know you don't have many options and they exploit it.
I will throw out that my dealership repair shop in my area is one of the rare exceptions from reading peoples responses. I've tried out a few different independent mechanics, and even the same brand dealership in other cities and have had horrible experiences at every single one. They were scammy and over charging me and clearly trying to rip me off, at one place they literally broke a part of my wheel and told me it was just a "risk of the repair" they were supposed to be doing and wanted to charge me full price on the repair plus more to fix what they broke. HAHA! I had one place try to tell me I desperately needed repairs on systems that my *model of vehicle does not even have as an option to install*. When I called them on it they had no response and just stammered for a bit and then told me to leave. Another place that repaired my broken bumper after insurance insisted I go to the cheapest spot told me as I'm leaving they weren't sure if the bumper would actually stay on, but I could come back up to a year out if it started popping off????
But everytime I go back to the original dealership that I got my car from they charge less than anywhere else and are the only ones that do everything I need perfectly the first time, plus I have the assurance they will always have access to the needed parts. I think it might be bc that dealership is known to pay its people well and give good benefits, and so the mechanics in town seem to want to be there and it is run by people who have been there for years. I think I'm just lucky to live somewhere with a dealership owner that has decided cultivating a good reputation is worth it in the difficult car sales market, I know multiple families who will only buy there. Like finding a needle in a haystack but everytime you drive by they are moving people in and out with constant business and I'm gonna stick with them while the current management keeps it up at least.
I reserved mine simply because of this model. There is absolutely no reason to have a dealership any longer, only service centers.
This video is so good. Clear, concise and the dealership arguments just make sense. Ive been watching your content for a while, and i think you should do more of this! much love
Dealership employee here, the problem with the dealership industry is that it’s ran by salespeople who worked their way to the top. So it’s an industry ran by salespeople, who employ the next generation of salespeople, but have no interest in growing those employee’s skills. And they have utter contempt for customers. In fact, having any sympathy for the customer is viewed as a weakness, and you’ll find yourself out of a salesman job almost immediately.
It’s an industry of sharks who will vehemently fight to make sure they keep making more money every year.
I personally hate buying from dealers period. Some folks love it though and enjoy going through the whole give and take of negotiations. I don’t like being lied,to and the whole mysterious guy in the back room that sales people have to consult just aggravates the sh*t out of me. Beside that I don’t enjoy the instant depreciation of driving the car off the lot.
Haha. You know the salesman just goes into the guy’s office and they small talk for a minute.
My partner is one of those strange people who actually enjoy buying a car. It stresses me out so badly, I only ever do it when I have no other choice. But he goes in there knowing they’re looking to rip him off, and he likes calling them out when they do. Gives me the willies just thinking about it😩
Somehow, "Instant" is a gross understatement in this instance.
Dealers are home to some of the most unscrupulous sales people on the planet and I absolutely hate dealing with them. Like other businesses that are going direct-to-consumer, inflation is forcing them out of their old business model. However, don't expect that just because dealerships are out of the picture that you're going to get a better deal from the manufacturers direct - they're going to continue to sell cars at the same prices the dealerships would have and absorb the extra margin for themselves.
I had a 1976 Scout they were made by International Harvester.
I knew a couple of guys who had IH small vehicles back in the 70’s. They both loved their trucks but they finally rusted away. Not of course that that has anything to do with the new VW brand.
Yup, Scout is a model, not a manufacturer.
@@1htalp9
Scout motors is a new (2022) subsidiary of Volkswagen.
@@atticstattic Right, understood, but she stated that Scout was a brand that made vehicles in the 60s-80. Not true, Scout was a model produced by IH. I was merely pointing this out.
@1htalp9
You're right, she's conflating the two things.
International Harvester produced the International Scout from 1960 to 1980. There was never a "Scout Motors" in existence before 2022.
Are the semantics that important? No they arent
@@Rainspector Yes, the semantics are important. While VW owns the Scout brand now, the video implies that it was always Scout Motors when it was International Harvester until the company sadly failed and broke into pieces and largely sold off. I believe Navistar is what became of IH (not positive about that) while everything else was sold. The history of a brand is important to get right if you're going to talk about it. Don't use it as an example if you're not going to honor its history. Perhaps, though, the fact that so many don't seem to care is why we are where we are.
My dad had an International Scout. So I was confused by what she was saying. Thank you for clearing that up. Best Wishes!
I took my KIA Sportage in for service a few months ago. While I was in there one of the sellers came to the waiting room, where me an about 10 others were waiting, and basically tried to sell us a car by offering free test drives. She started by coming in and asking us who wants help her save her job. She talked for 5 minutes until about 3 of them decided to take her up on the offer. Im pretty sure they did it just to shut her up. She then also came up to each and every one of us to ask if we wanted to test drive.
A friend of mine just bought a new car, and I sat with him while the salesman kept saying "you will get this benefit, if you buy this package, don't you want this benefit?"
It's like how EVERY stinking computer game sold today is "pay to win" - the more you pay and pay and pay, the more you win.
Same with cars. You want this feature that's already built-in? pay more.
Well, all new cars are tracking the hell out of you, uploading your texts to their servers, keeping track of who you called, when, how long, how fast you were going, how many swerves, etc, and selling this data to data-brokers. All this data is about YOU, the car owner, and they're making money off YOU, even after you pay off the car. Hell no. If I ever find myself the owner of one of these new machines, I'm disabling ALL telemetrics. That voids the warranty? Then I won't buy one of these rolling spy devices new.
Also, you're just like Graham Stephan, speedy competent delivery, but you both seem unable to keep your video from zooming in and out erratically.
It's easy to unplug the sat/cell antenna.
Heh. I went as the hatchet man with a friend. Whatever the sales and finance guy said, I said no. So many pissed off people. So funny. Great deal on the car with 0% finance. (In 2018)
@@Jonathan-hx6oyI came here to say the same thing. lol
50-60k is “an attractive price-point”? While I would admit that it is better than 70-80k, I wouldn’t go as far as to call it “attractive”.
I can't afford $50-60K for any kind of vehicle. And I won't pay that kind of money, either. Cars and trucks these days are wildly, stupidly overpriced. I'm keeping what I got until it drops.
For its segment one might consider the price attractive. Those things are huge and look well made.
@@MrMezmerizedif that's the case, its entire segment is unattractively priced. I don't think even their marketing department would try to convince regular consumers that 50-60k is an attractive price for a vehicle.
@@DizzyDiddy I'm probably never going to be able to afford a car in that segment anyway. I'll stick to used cars. A station wagon or perhaps next time a hatchback, depending on the prices. Plenty of space, good fuel efficiency. It's funny station wagons fell out of favour in the US.
@@MrMezmerized agreed. Station Wagons are pretty cool.
I thought Tesla got away with the 'no dealerships' model by calling their product a 'technology platform' and not a vehicle since it has so much tech integrated into the "non-vehicle" models they sell.
I've got to agree with you on the repulsiveness of dealerships. I've been in a few the last couple of months trying to get an OTD price on a compact car and they all rebuff me. They insist I give them my 'monthly budget' for a vehicle then sit down with an F&I person to work out financing. I tell them I want to explore outside financing as well and they lie saying they can always do better than a bank or credit union. In reality I just want to pay it in one lump sum with a personal check and a trade-in. They don't want to sell vehicles unless its on their terms, not the customer's terms.
I don't know where you are in the world but here in Australia we have buyer's advocates (brokers). The only time you step foot into a dealership is to test drive cars. Once you've decided what you want, the colour and options etc, you call up the broker and he/she chases down the best price that they can get for you, and it is usually a price that you'll get nowhere close to due to their fleet purchasing power. I've purchased my last two cars via a broker and it's to easy and too cheap to be true.
Tesla has somewhat gotten away with it because they've never before had franchised dealerships.
Tesla cannot sell or have service centers in some States, but buyers can purchase online and pick up their new Tesla in another State.
All other manufacturers of vehicles in the USA are required to have dealerships because of US franchise laws requiring those dealerships.
The dealerships lobby politicians to keep it that way.
that's all businesses. And if they're not giving you a price, it's because there is something about you that they're not taking seriously. I've helped a few friends but new cars and it's been less than an hour in the dealership.
Last time we bought a car from a dealership, they said they would match the outside financing we had. When they came back with the new "matching" contract, they had tried to hide it, but it was going to be $100 more per month! Fortunately we read the fine print and financed elsewhere. For the most part, dealerships are con artists.
Just lie to them. Let them think you are going to finance just long enough for you to see the actual old price. Then whip out your checkbook or walk out the door. It worked well for me a couple years ago. They get angry, but who gives a -----.
This video is very informative. For those who are unclear about this controversy , this decision more than just corporate relationships or corporate strategy .One thing that is not stated explicitly is that dealer lobbying groups have made it ILLEGAL in many states to purchase cars directly from manufacturers.
She states that in the video
I live not far from the new Scout plant, everyone locally is excited about it. Didn't expect this video to hit so close to home, but its kinda neat that it did!
I have no problem with direct to consumer, my question is, who does warranty and maintenance work? Are dealerships the evil necessity? What is Scout's legal obligation to it's customer they sold a electro-mechanical machine with a warranty?
What if the manufacturers could sell you cars in a brick and mortar location that also housed mechanics on staff and call them something else ither than dwalerships? Ah! Never thought of that did ya? Novel price winning head meat right here.
Like Tesla?
Tesla can do that in many States because they never before had dealerships.
Unfortunately for other manufacturers in the USA, the franchise laws prevent it from happening.
And, the dealers lobby the politicians to keep it that way.
There is no reason they can't have factory-owned Showrooms and Service Centers augmented by independent certified mechanics who are trained to do the warranty work. In places where Rivian ownership is sparse, they have been using mobile service, which is bascially a Rivian employee mechanic with a van or truck full of tools and parts that they send to customers that are not near a Rivian service center. I don't know if Tesla does mobile, but I think they have a mix of Tesla-owned service centers and certified independents.
Offer mechanic shops certification and training.
@@dvader3263 I'm fairly sure Musk will have Trump overturn the dealership laws.
Great video. Spot on. I worked for GM for 11 years, so I know dealership operations inside and out. Aubrey knows her stuff. It will be interesting to see how this all works out...
It would end up with cars being more expensive, and unrepairable. That's what Tesla sells now. Does that sound like an improvement?
I've purchased my last 3 cars/truck from a private dealer or person. I'll never buy from a major dealership and absolutely will never buy a new vehicle again. The depreciation is just stupid and since I'm not going to drop 30-70k cash on a car/truck, I'm not going to take on a 6-900 dollar monthly payment. My '03 GMC Denali is just about to turn 150k miles and will crank out another 150 easy with minimal cost for any repairs. More to the subject, as a consumer, I should be able to go online and purchase any vehicle I want from any manufacturer. Scout looks awesome! This story reminds me of Tucker and how he created a product that was ahead of its time but was monumentally screwed over by the powers that be.
In my local area (southeast Florida) all Mercedes dealers (for example) have the same owner, so there is no competition. You cannot get good deals because everything is marked up, including the financing. Other regions of the country advertise strikingly better deals than can be gotten here.
The only problem I see with factory direct sales is the need for local service centers for repairs and warranty service. If I buy a Scout, where do I take it for repairs?
International Harvester designed and built the original Scouts. Scouts were discontinued in 1980, but IH continued on. IH became Navistar International in 1986 after selling off all divisions except for the truck division. A few years back Man truck group(VW) purchased Navistar, and just recently changed the name to International Motors.
Is there an easy way to track these corporate mergers and name changes? :)
(or do I have to Google very diligently/just be in the know)
@MrNicoJac Sometimes, it can be tough. But I'm an IH/Navistar collector, and the trucking industry magazines/ google are a
good sources.
To complicate the International Harvester story, J.I. Case bought the agricultural division, and it also had several name changes afterwards.
@@MrNicoJac If you search "International Harvester," the wiki entry is pretty good.
1:39 "$50-60,000 price range" is not "attractive" 😂.
I don't recall them being a product of Scout Motors. In my recollection of things they were produced by the truck division of International Harvester Corp. I had one of their 1 ton models and my friend had a Scout. Great vehicles and noteworthy mainly for NOT being maintenance hogs.
I temporarily fixed a popped off accelerator arm with a hair band once. 😁 Great vehicles
I’m so happy there is a woman on YT talking about cars. My dad was a mechanic and made me a wrench head I love cars. I have found a kindred spirit. ❤
The Scout purchase by VW was almost certainly intended to be a DTC learning platform. It will be interesting to see how it shakes out.
Want to get the deal done to your satisfaction from a fancy car dealer;
make your offer to them. then let 3 small children loose with permission for Jonny, Timmy and Sally to get inside and play in all the cars. Here are your M&Ms kids. Everyone in the family needs to try out their seat in the new vehicle, right. Test the cup holders and such....
Bought a Ford F350 crew cab once new and used that technique. Told them we were there to buy a truck and we would stay and work on the deal till it was to our satisfaction. Told them we had all day set aside to negotiate if needed. Brought 2 small children. Turned them loose in the showroom with a bag of choc chip cookies and milk cartons and permission to explore.
We were out of there in 2 hours with the deal done.
great reverse psychology...!
Very creative and this made me 😂
We used to do that at Timeshare meetings, we always got the free Disney tickets, and quickly too. Never bought the timeshare though.
Evil, but I approve. Modern problems require modern solutions.
Did you ever try the bored wife trick? Saved me about $1500 once on a Volvo. About 30 minutes into negotiations my wife stands up and starts to look out the window. This really unnerves 'em.
@1:12 - We named our dog Boo Radley and our cat Scout for the exact same reason! It is my wife's favorite book.
Did your cat especially like to kill mockingbirds?
I love this!!
"Introducing the new Chevy Luv Truck! manual windows, manual transmission, fuel friendly 4 cylinder, manual mirrors, manual door locks! Come get one today for the insanely low price of $348,000.00, we'll even throw in the plaid seats for no charge!"
“It has a starting price of $19,999*!
*not including destination fees ($15,000), dealership market demand adjustment ($47,000), VIN etching ($9,000), ceramic paint coating ($6,899), tax, title and registration.”
@@Duc-sl7rz HAHAHAHHA
Something to keep in mind is that a LOT of localities rely almost entirely on the taxes they pull from taxing the dealerships’ sales. Keep in mind that you will likely have to find another source of funding/taxation to keep your local government solvent.
Are there direct to customer HYBRID cars or is it all electric-only?
Most people want a simple car (ex:Scout) to own and drive. What's in the OEM's minds was wrong thinking. And yes dealers greed, has got it shoved up their tail pipes good. Consumers are starting to get smart.
I hope you're referring to the old Scout. That new monstrosity is gigantic and loaded with useless tech that will break constantly.
This did miss the rationale for the dealerships model, and the laws that support it, that the relationship between consumers and auto manufacturers was asymmetric (i.e., the manufacturer would have too much power in the relationship). The point from the video still stands that this was from a different time and the model did not work as intended.
My dealership tried to charge me $25 for miscellaneous items under a shop fee for getting my tires rotated. I asked what was miscellaneous? It’s an electric car! I’m not paying $25 for window washer fluid🤬them
Its an operating fee that pays for all the tools and miscellaneous items that people use to work on your car and it gets spread across all of the customers. That socket that took your wheels off on that rotation? Yeah. That came from the shop fee. The lift that put your car in the air? The rags they use to clean things that may get dirty? The air compressor for the impact? The floormats and seat covers? Yeah. Shop fee. If you used the shop, you used the shop fee.
Now i will admit, $25 on just the shop fee is a bit much for just a tire rotation. Ours would have been closer to $7.00. But that shop fee 100% actually has a reason to be there. Shops cant operate without it and *someone* has to pay it. So distributing it among the customers that are literally using the things that the fee pays for. Well. Simply makes sense.
Edit: also i doubt you were getting charged a shop fee for washer fluid. Actually, at most dealers the washer fluid is complimentary with service and. You wanna take a guess what pays for that? (Its the shop fee)
Buying a Tesla was the best experience. Buy everything online, same price for everyone, no negotiating, easy pickup with no pushy salesman just friendly people if you need help. After so many bad experiences at dealerships, it was stress free and made the whole day fun. All car companies should do the same.
How do you see touch and evaluate the particular car that you're buying? How do you deal with the used car market.
You didn't even mention outrageous markups and "market adjustment" increases among the long list of dealership negatives. If they don't allow direct in my state, I'll drive to another state that does just to avoid dealing with a dealership.
Well done!
Went to a dealership years ago, trying to find a new light truck to replace my 97 Ranger. The guy totally ignored what I said and showed me a bunch of big trucks.
When I reminded him that I want a smaller truck, he said I would have to go through "fleet sales". Never mind, never went back, still have the truck, still working well. Collusion w the "oiligarchy", they want you to use more gas.
As someone commented elsewhere on RUclips - that deal was part of A) a very corrupt government deal with the auto industry which allowed larger trucks to Evade compliance with emissions targets, and B) as retribution against the countries where most 'small' trucks were produced because those same countries were refusing to accept US agricultural products containing higher levels of a bunch of things including (but not limited to) growth hormones in chicken meat and cow milk, preservatives, heavy metals, pesticides, toxic GMOs, foreign animal diseases and so on. It looked like a defeat for Washington at the time and it still does. It turns out that we needed smaller cheaper trucks and they didn't need to eat poison. Go figure.😩
In a direct to consumer marketing system, where does one go for service and repair? Taking a Scout SUV to a Volkswagen dealership seems like a non-starter if they have been sidestepped in the initial sale. Will scout establish repair and parts locations?
I’m no fan of dealerships but if they are gone how are recalls, service, repairs and warranty work handled?
On the service side of dealerships, all you have to do is to look at how mechanics are compensated, the flat-rate scheme has been abused forever.
Sorry for the people selling car at dealerships, but the experience is really awful. Also for them, as the pressure they have is fenomenal.
I know a girl whose brother died from an overdose of fenomenal
@@connor_flanigan ouch ! too bad
The pressure is high because margins soo low. Manufacturers need temporary spaces called dealer lots for product. Or they would have no showrooms. Also where are ppl going to go for maintenance? It's EV.
@@TheZionomo True ! now, I wonder if there's anyway to make the experience at dealerships better. They want to sell you everything, and add more $$ on top of the price for whatever ridiculous item, like scam warranties and nitrogen-filled tires, and when you say no, they come-up with something else.
Dealerships are not keen on EV’s because the reliability is much higher compared to ice. They make their money and bonuses on non warranty work.
Exactly. EVs will need their own forms of service and maintenance but the service dept will look very different and likely be smaller, with fewer technicians. It's not going to be profitable on the same basis as current dealer service.
There's a whole lot of wishful thinking, that this new/old fangled battery car thing will go away again. I think that's why 47% of dealers are not enthused by selling EVs, they just hope that we'll go back to burning Dinosaur Juice 100%. They've got history in selling those vehicles to US customers and don't see a similar business model working with EVs.
@@raygunsforronnie847 I gotta admit that one of my local Hyundai dealers was pretty damned stoked to sell me an I5 AWD Limited over the summer. The sales person was knowledgeable and enthusiastic. And it was basically here's the MSRP, the dealer gives you $2500 off along with a $7500 Hyundai discount. That's the deal. No BS, straight OTD price.
Where did you get that bogus claim from?😂 cite your sources! Don’t just repeat stuff that you just heard off the street or sink makes sense😂
@ I have a relative who’s a service manager at VW so it’s first hand knowledge.
@@VinceroAlpha Got any sources to refute the claim? I'm looking in your post but don't see them.
Question, If there is no dealership, where do you go for warranty & maintenance repair? Because all cars have to be repaired.
Case in point, the state I live in was looking at a bill that would allow the sale of vehicles outside of the dealership model. One person who spoke at the hearing in favor of that said how they loved their car, (some electric car that I have never heard of) however that even though the car was just a few years old there was a part that broke and they had to buy a new car from a different company instead of repairing the existing car because the part was not available to repair the car because the company had gone out of business in the couple years since they had bought the car.
How many independent electric car companies have come and gone already? Yes dealership car lines have disappeared. Scion, Saturn, Oldsmobile. However, the parent company is still required to service and maintain any warranty work on those. But whos going to repair your no name electric car? Especially when the company goes bankrupt.
Question. Where do you get a direct to consumer vehicle serviced and what about warranty?
If you think $50K-$60K is an affordable price point for EVs, you're more disconnected than any automaker
Every new car is bought on credit anyhow, price is functionally irrelevant at this point. Especially for and EV with a far longer predicted lifespan and usage model.
@@darrens3 Price is absolutely relevant. Just because I CAN get an 84-month loan for an overpriced vehicle doesn't mean I am willing to do so.
So how would one get the more complex levels of service or warranty work done for a Scout? Service centers, like Tesla?
No, Polestar is not a brand of Volvo, but it was once a joint venture between Volvo and Geely.
Polestar was originally a racing skunkworks for Volvo, but in 2017 it became a standalone electric car brand. Volvo was a 48% shareholder in Polestar, but in 2024 Volvo announced that it would no longer fund the failing Polestar.
Since the dealer is "cut-out", who will service the new EV Scout?
International made the Scout. Scout Motors was a company started in 2022. Just because you buy a name doesn't mean you can buy a fanbase.
Last time I was in the market for a new car, I had a salesman snarl when I balked at the markup over MSRP given on the manufacturer's website and pivoted to buying a lightly used vehicle instead, and didn't get it from him. He felt like just because I had done test drives with him, I was somehow "obligated" to buy from him. His attitude cost his dealership the opportunity to service the vehicle I did get as it was the same brand and having that dealership provide the service would have been convenient as it was near to where I lived at the time.
The last new vehicle I bought was a Chevy Colorado in 2006. Z71 off road package, two wheel drive, lots of options. They had zero interest financing over 5 years with no hidden fees. Great deal. They tried to pull a fast one by already adding life insurance to the paperwork saying I had to in order to get the financing. I said, 'take it off or I leave". The guy said he would have to redo the documents so I got a magazine off the table and said, "I'll wait". Still have the truck.
If I can remove the screens and replace them with gauges, I will buy a Scout. Screens become useless where I live in Alaska. The do not work when its -60.
The way you explained your excitement for Scout Motors is the same way the office receptionist fills out her March Madness bracket. “My cats name is Pepper so I’ll pick Pepperdine to win it all.”
in the 1970's, it wasn't "Scout Motors". "Scout" was a model of a small SUV built by International Harvester (reflected in the name of one of Scout Motor's nameplates) A manufacturer of both trucks and tractors. They also produced pickup trucks, and larger SUV's The International TravelAll competed with the Chevy Suburban, and they also had the panel version called the CarryAll. The name of the vehicle was "International Scout" sort of like "Chevrolet Blazer" Volkswagen is taken the model name and turned it into a manufacturer name, sort of the way Chrysler did with the Eagle model when they bought out AMC. Instead of it being an "AMC Eagle" it was an "Eagle Vision" or "Eagle Premier" or "Eagle Talon" and so on. International Harvester was broken up in 1984, with the tractor division getting the "International Harvester" and the IH nameplate when CASE bought them out. The truck division became Navistar International, and soldiered on until Volkswagen bought them out just here recently, and acquired the "Scout" trademark. International had very good business with medium duty trucks through the 1990's and 2000's, and even built diesel engines for Ford.
I'm a Polestar tech and because Polestar don't have salesperson like legacydealer have, I get lot of questions on how the car works. Who do I bill for the advicework? Or do I shut up and let the customer figure out by self?
The last 2 vehicles I bought were both through AAA (yes, they have a car buying service for their members). It is the best model because they simply put the price tag of the vehicle on their site, or they will contact you when they have found the vehicle you want, and if you can afford it, you go down to their office, sign the papers, and take the car. Even with my last car, which I bought a couple weeks ago and will be making payments on, the entire process took less than an hour, including the test drive. I will NEVER go to a dealership, ever.
I have an EV and am not really looking to change, but I got curious how easy they are making the tax credit.
So far I've messaged 3 about transferring the federal used EV tax credit to the dealership, and none of them know how.
The really sinister thing is that the process is basically the same if they take it or if the person does. So if they don't know how, it means they won't report the correct info to the IRS and anyone buying from them could be charged with tax fraud or miss the credit.
Enjoyed this video very much. Thanks. Picking up on the stats that consumers are not purchasing as many electric vehicles as once was thought, I am VERY disappointed that the new Scout models are electric, especially for an off-road SUV and truck. I have owned two Scout IIs over the years and I was excited about the resurrection of the brand. That said, I won't be buying an electric version. Any thought that the Scout will be manufactured as a gas engine model any time soon? Once again, thanks for this video.