Thank you for the clarification! I still don’t think that’s long enough to entice me to bother building anything cool or advanced! If I spent ages building something complex I’d expect it be stay spawned as long as I want but obviously it can’t do that because it would break the game. Again, creative building mechanics at odds with the Zelda format they’re trying to stick to
@@CharlieAndLuke there is this really cool feature where you can recreate whatever you want in the game, so you know, there's that. Seems like an obvious counterpoint to what you're saying.
Man I could never say what made me not like animal crossing new horizons so much while the hype was going crazy. Now I just realised it‘s these awkwardly implemented mechanics. I played on off until I unlocked terra forming and while that was pretty much my motivation to then start the cool island I had in mind, it was so incredibly tedious and just didn‘t feel right. Unfortuantely I have never played any other Animal Crossing title. I thought they were all like that lol
ive had a lot of fun base building in palworld. its really the main reason i play it. i feel like the pals play into the base building a lot, forcing you to build around their needs. i kind of welcome that. i did have as lot of pal pathing issues, but i was able to circumvent most of it by making any room that a pal needs to enter at least two units high, three to be safe in some areas. its also got to be somewhat spacious, i double up my staircases too so that theyre wide. they give you a LOT of vertical space to work with and pals are surprisingly good at climbing staircases if built right. my only main gripe with the building mechanics might be that building this large requires so many materials. but its a pretty small and simple game compared to a lot of titles, and they also have the slider options to mitigate that if its not quite your taste. im pretty impressed by what they pulled off with it
pokemon had crafting pokeballs in generation 2, like 10 years before minecraft, criticizing how it was implemented in arceus is fair but wouldn't say it was thrown in just because they were copying minecraft.
That wasn’t really my intention but I can see why it came off that way, my bad! I was more trying to get across that arceus made it more focal early game which I think was a result of crafting becoming a more trendy mechanic in gaming in general, not purely minecraft(:
@Ippotsuko it was much worse in gen 2, you had to wait 24 hours to get a completely worthless glitched pokeball lol while the crafting mechanics in legends just enhanced the experience, by giving you an incentive to explore and look for things.
@@calebmon point was that as a mechanic it already existed, it may have been a terrible implementation that is later improved upon but was just saying crafting already did exist to some extent even way back then.
@Ippotsuko my point was that it was much worse in gen 2. But you don't see youtube content creators complaining about it for hours like you do legends, a game which implemented the system much better
I love seeing awesome TOTK builds online, but I could not be bothered to make them myself. To be fair, mid to late game getting zonite is not that big of a deal and the autocrafter means that you only have to build it once. But yes, this video is pretty much spot on, most games I ignore the crafting mechanic (except Minecraft). My favorite kind of game is factorio or satisfactory. In these games crafting is intentionally a slog which motivates you to automate so you don't have to do it anymore.
Honestly I feel very validated as someone who has been very vocal about disliking crafting systems for years now lol. For animal crossing, you've put it all into words best I could. NH was my first one and I almost didn't play animal crossing games when I gave up because it took too long or time traveling was too much to do for a supposedly "relaxing cozy" game, New Leaf was much better and then I enjoyed Wild World just as much. With more understanding of the old games I've restarted New Horizons and it's better when ignoring some of the crafting when possible haha. Treasure islands and the shops my beloveds... For Legends Arceus I will say so far the crafting hasn't gotten in my way. I don't remember much from the first attempt I had at playing on my family's switch, but I restarted recently and they give you a crafting key item fairly early on so you can craft pokeballs etc out in the field easily, and even though I've been catching every new Pokemon I come across I still have plenty of pokeballs and crafting material for them. Then again, I don't doubt if you weren't actively collecting material you passed (usually for exp) you could run out quickly because it 100% does have the "no place for farming materials in the fields" problem you mentioned. Palworld surprisingly hasn't been that bad in my experience, I even quite enjoy even the crafting system in a very Minecrafty way. The only two crafting systems I can say I don't mind lol. It may be just because there's an abundance in a way and you can USUALLY collect plenty of material from one source before building your own. In general, I can't stand crafting mechanics because it often feels tacked on to draw out gameplay. Yeah, the game will be longer if I'm sitting doing the same animation for crafting repeatedly throughout the game, or having to stop progress to build. Even worse in cases where it's a series that suddenly adds crafting haphazardly... I wish it didn't become such a trend among so many genres.
I don't really understand the hate behind Nuts & Bolts. Yes it isn't like the other BK games, but it does the building mechanics so well, I wish more games had that kind of building.
Because of what you said, it isn't a Banjo and Kazooie game. If if were a new IP it'd be a classic game, but they, for no reason made it a banjo kazooie game, when it made absolutely no sense as a banjo kazooie game
@@calebmon Particularly, the hate comes from the fact that we ONLY got a spinoff game. If it had been accompanied by another real B&K game it wouldn't have really gotten anyone upset.
I think it touches on what I mention in the video about ToTK and animal crossing, if a series isn’t known for building based vehicle mechanics and it suddenly makes the next mainline entry revolve around that instead of its original genre, then people are entirely valid in saying it sucks because of that. It’s not a fair ask of a long time fan of the existing series to suddenly enjoy this new one that’s totally different!
@LilacMonarch the game devs did not call it a spin off at the time, they said it was a successor to banjo Tooie, if they had merely called it a spin off this too could have avoided the hate, but for some reason they didn't have the foresight to see how dumb it was to make this a banjo game for no reason
@CharlieAndLuke a game like Zelda always has new ideas in each entry, with no two ever being the same, so real Zelda fans should by now, come to expect each game to have new mechanics and not get butthurt because they aren't creative enough to engage with the new gameplay mechanics as they arise. This hatred of Totk reminds me a lot of the hatred of skyward sword, wind waker, and even Majora's Mask way back in the day. All of which are regarded as masterclass games today. Totk has revolutionized how building mechanics work in games in an incredibly unique way and all of you refuse to see it for what it is, wanting it to just be an OOT clone, so it appeals to the lowest common denominator when totk is an example of what makes Zelda great, and shouldn't be reduced to shit to appeal to morons. It is getting really tiring to see youtube video after youtube video complaining about TOTK over and over and over and over. We get it, you people hate fun building mechanics and want an OOT clone.
Now I haven’t played an animal crossing game other than Animal Crossing New Horizons, but I never really thought the crafting felt out of place, it’s the same reason that crops and fruit take time to grow, or why shop selections are limited each day, or why it takes at least a full year to catch every creature. The game doesn’t want you to do everything all at once, the point is to get on, do some chores and make a bit of progress, and then log off for the day. Trying to terraform an entire island in a day is a fools errand, and I’m an idiot who is playing the game full of chores so obviously I tried to do it, and it really drains you, not just because the building and placing systems are clunky and I have joy-con drift AND I JUST WANT TO PLACE IT IN THE CORNER THERE. But because taking on too much just isn’t fun, the game forces you to pace yourself for almost everything. (Except Vacation Homes for some reason.) The game wants you to just relax and take it slow. Is it annoying having to craft each vegetable basket individually just so I can sell my crops for slightly more? Yeah, but thats just because I’m not willing to just slow down and relax, I’m making the game more frustrating for myself.
It took me a bit to figure out what I didn’t like about the Tears of the Kingdom arguments, but part way through I realized it’s pretty much the exact same argument that people used for why they hated weapon durability in Breath of the Wild. Hate collecting Batteries for your constructs? People hated having to look under random rocks for koroks to increase their inventory slots. Hating Collecting random components and people hating having to stockpile random weapons they don’t want to use like spears and hammers. And I don’t think I even have to say how much people hated that the weapons could break. Zelda never had survival mechanics before? Why are they adding it to this game? (Which if I recall people also blamed Minecraft for…) But all of these systems exist for a reason, weapons break for the same reason that rockets have limited fuel, or why gliders disappear after flying for a while. The game doesn’t want you to just use the same thing over and over again when there’s so many things to play with. You need to let go of the things that worked, and try out the things that are fun, when I reach a place full of components, my immediate thought isn’t “man these are all useless”. My immediate thought Is “how can I slap all of these components together into one machine to assault this Yiga outpost.” Now, is that really what the game wanted me to do? Probably not. Is it more effective than just slapping 2 fans on a control or even just walking through the front door? Definitely not. But the game gave me springs, so I’m wanna use the springs. The game wants me to engage with the systems, The game can’t actually fully stop me from just using the fan bike for every traversal puzzle, or just chucking Bombs at every enemy from a tall cliff. But the hint that I’m not supposed to be doing that is that *ITS REALLY FREAKING BORING.* We players don’t want to admit it, but when presented with total freedom we don’t often choose the most fun way to play, game designers exist for a reason, and as much as being restricted feels like a pure negative, limitations can help guide the player. If you still don’t want to engage with it that’s fine, it’s your choice, and there are plenty of things you can do to avoid building as much as possible, but it can’t be denied how impactful building was to so many Tears of the Kingdom players, all the complex contraptions people make and share online shows just how much it added to so many peoples experience and it’s hard for me to imagine getting rid of it would’ve been an improvement for much of those players. And hey it’s not like BOTW didn’t have crafting, Baking is just Making, cooking with whatever ingredients i had was fun for me.
Personally I just didn't enjoy the building, because I'm not interested in mixing Breath Of The Wild's navigation and exploration with engineering puzzles. I can enjoy engineering games - I have hundreds of hours in Factorio. But in Factorio's case, that is the entire focus of that game. The entire experience is built on the contemplative practise of engineering. Meanwhile in TOTK, it felt like my grand adventure across Hyrule was constantly being interrupted by Physics homework. The two sides of the game never gelled together, for me.
As someone who never really got into Zelda but has a ton of hours logged in Garry's Mod, I absolutely LOVED TotK. It was like if Garry's Mod had a story mode with challenges to overcome via sandbox building shenanigans. I personally ended up using a dupe glitch to alleviate grinding for Zonai Devices (otherwise I'd 100% end up hoarding them) and basically played the game trying to find the funniest solution to each puzzle and searching the world for new Zonai Devices and things to play around with in an almost metroidvania-esque fashion. I also had a great time with Echoes of Wisdom as well for the same reasons, and I'm even starting to try out some of the older Zelda games I missed out on too!
I think my entire problem with that argument is again, Zelda isn’t a series that ever had building as a central mechanic so I don’t think it’s unreasonable for some fans to voice that this isn’t what they want from the series rather than being told they’re simply “engaging with it wrong”. “Letting go of what worked” is a kinda bizarre mindset as well that lead to the complete fracturing of the sonic fanbase and the eventual dark ages. Not saying totk is a bad game per se but there is absolutely no reason to let go of what worked really! If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it! You could have easily made a building game with another IP or a Zelda sub series! If the game gives you a really boring but quicker and easier way to do something, then that’s really not on me for “not engaging properly” which I might have even been more likely to do if my creations didn’t disappear after half an hour and require a ton of battery life to use. Bomb arrows clear a hide out much faster and don’t involve me having to slow the pace down to build or farming zonite to auto build something I made before! Again it just come down to not being what I wanted from a Zelda game, it changes things pretty drastically and didn’t feel like Zelda to me anymore but I’m very glad you had fun with it!(: I also dislike the cooking btw, it’s potions with extra steps lmao
I really can't imagine preferring the irritating way of crossing water with one ice pillar at a time rather than taking 15 seconds to craft and then zooming across any size of lake. Why would you say you wouldn't know about large crystalized charges or the rewards you get for beating minibosses on your first runthrough? The only people who wouldn't are people who rush though the game ignoring everything but the required story beats. You also ignored the fact that if battery life is a problem, you can craft batteries to attach to your builds and they're not hard to find. You also acted like all builds despawn quickly which is just false, only a few zonai parts do.
They despawn if you go not that far or if you go inside a loading zone, the game literally punishes you for trying to have fun and be creative, cant park your car on a shrine and expect it to be there when you are just back from inside it
Personally, if I ever have the urge to build something, I just fire up a parameteic CAD program. Building in games is only interesting if it comes with an associated simulation system, like Cities Ckylines or something.
Yeah it seems like the ramblings of an old man yelling at cloud kind of moment, like he has a skill issue when it comes to any modern game with a basic crafting system
@CharlieAndLuke no you didn't you just said minecraft existed you never actually mention liking it, if anything you state that minecraft is boring procedurally generated terrain. I think your problem with Zelda is that you want it to be like a mario game, where every single game is exactly the same as the last game. Every Zelda is different, get over it. Sorry, not every Zelda is gonna be HD OOT, and that's a good thing! Okay so you didn't like the incredibly simple and intuitive building system, wow what an original opinion, the cool thing is, the next Zelda won't have it. It'll be something completely different and new. That's what Zelda games do. Nearly every Zelda has unique gameplay mechanics, so why do you hate this one for doing what every other Zelda has done?
100% agree with your perspective on TotK. I actually really found it very boring, and your summary of why it's boring is exactly what I was feeling but didn't know how to put into words. Hearing it laid out like that was validating, I felt like I was crazy for being the one guy on earth that didn't fall madly in love with TotK. I actually didn't like it and never finished it (and never will).
I’m genuinely glad most people enjoyed the game! That’s great! Just did not click for me at all and I don’t think any of the things I missed like battery packs or some parts lasting 30 mins makes my feelings towards it any different. I still wouldn’t wanna spend ages creating something cool and have it respawn in half hour
I have issue with saying baldurs gate 3 doesn't need crafting. It's there because it's in dungeons and dragons. It doesn't need it, but it's important that it's their for the sake of completeness.
I still think ToTk should of allowed the community to upload their custom builds online. Sure that would of made it super cheesy to be less creative but if it despawns after awhile and costs a ton of material, it's not too bad. But yea, I got tired of just using my bike fan to get around everywhere. But didn't wanna keep walking
although I have mixed feelings on your takes on totk I do agree that the shrines missed the mark across the board. also I am about 3/4 through echos of wisdom and I highly recommend it! the only gripe I have so far is the scroll through my whole inventory (like totk) just to find the 1 thing I want is still there. I don't find it slowing me down I just find it making me make lazier decisions that end up killing me, making me rethink the problem with a different lense.
I’m glad you enjoyed totk more than I did! I’ll defo try echoes of wisdom at some point, too big of a fan not to, it’s just on the back burner a bit!(:
Contrast to TotK, try Trailmakers. It's has better vehicle problem-solving. The campaign, specifically. Other modes, too, but campaign is what I want to highlight here.
Maybe we have different views on this but I don't consider there to be any building mechanics in Echoes of Wisdom. Unless you consider stacking boxes building
Tbf I haven’t played it yet so very possible I’m just wrong! The trailers just gave me the impression it was gonna be a lot of stacking stuff and “building” solutions using objects I find which is a little too close to totk for me! I prefer the classic structure if unlocking new tools as the game progresses! Botw’s method was fine too, I still enjoyed it but as I mention in the video, I think if they gave link some classic tools on top of the runs and 7 classic dungeons, it would have been golden!
Pokémon Legends Arceus - Hold on… I think you do eventually get a portable crafting kit in this game. Am I wrong? Animal Crossing New Horizons - As someone who put hundreds of hours in, I’ll admit that crafting was one of many things that slowed the experience down. I think what made me accept it all long-term is that these games are ones you play over months if not years, not blast through and move on. (It’s also my first ever AC game, so I didn’t have any past experiences to go off of)
@ModelAAA90 oh wow! You're totally right! Guess its just so useless I forgot about it entirely lol, it's prob better to just teleport to a nearby camp site and craft with all materials you own in most scenarios
My thoughts on totk's crafting is that while Zelda is not a crafting game, it has always been a puzzle game. Totk just lets you make the dumbest solutions to said puzzle. Is there an easy option for this puzzle? Yes. But how dumb can this solution be? How many puzzles are solved with a really long stick? How many shape blocks fit in the square hole? My second playthrough was extremely different from my first mainly from one choice I made. I used autobuild a lot more but never got the parts and just used zonite. Buying 30 charges for 90 zonite is dumb and you get 100 from only 15 large zonite so I used the growing stockpile of zonite to see what those templates the game gives out are for. They certainly get stupid and i love it.
It’s a difference in what you’re looking for I think! I don’t find dumb solutions to be terribly entertaining in Zelda! 3D Zelda especially has always felt quite “cool” imo and stylish! Botw had this super serene atmosphere to it that felt very grounded and the shrines felt mystical and mysterious. Totk as you say, gets super silly and goofy with the janky, literally glued together solutions to puzzles and weapons that are just sword tied to other swords. This somewhat kills the tone that botw set imo and it didn’t make me feel cool or smart for solving puzzles, it made me feel like I’d barely got through something by just throwing shit at the wall and seeing what stuck! Still I’m super glad you had fun with it! I’m sure future playthroughs will yield even more whacky results!(:
2:00 unintuitive building and engineering even so this system are fun when whe now how it's work compare for example of minecraft redstonne which is very limited in is possibilities, it's he miracle that whe just rently toward the minecraft history are able to create he custom-build that can just move forward , most of the time this system is use for factory, doors and computer, if you go outside those domain you could encounter hard limitation. But they are still hope game like primordialis on even the specialized stormworks or even mage of mystralia as show diffent topic and situation on that domain, expect if for you engineering game and building game aren't same genre
You mean the settlement building mechanics? I thought in Fallout 4 specifically that they were a great feature as it lets you set a base whereever you want on the map (well if you have unlocked the quest, that indeed wasn‘t a good system imo). It acts as a save space, a hub with all your NPCs and crafting benches, grands some creative freedom on how you build or decorate. Some items laying in the world may even be collected just for decoration purpose only. In my opinion it added to the role playing factor of the game.
@@teddyboucher1848 honestly it’s the main reason I even play Fallout 4, sure the gunplay is good but the older games ultimately had the cooler combat because of how much your build effected everything, if it wasn’t for settlement building it wouldn’t be nearly as fun.
i dunno i quite liked it, it allowed me to make ammunition and i was less wary about using my items as i knew i could get more of them where as in ds1 i never used any items as i wasnt ever sure i would get more
It's only wings that despawn after sixty seconds. Everything else lasts 30 minutes.
Balloons also despawn quickly
Thank you for the clarification! I still don’t think that’s long enough to entice me to bother building anything cool or advanced! If I spent ages building something complex I’d expect it be stay spawned as long as I want but obviously it can’t do that because it would break the game.
Again, creative building mechanics at odds with the Zelda format they’re trying to stick to
@@CharlieAndLuke there is this really cool feature where you can recreate whatever you want in the game, so you know, there's that. Seems like an obvious counterpoint to what you're saying.
Man I could never say what made me not like animal crossing new horizons so much while the hype was going crazy. Now I just realised it‘s these awkwardly implemented mechanics. I played on off until I unlocked terra forming and while that was pretty much my motivation to then start the cool island I had in mind, it was so incredibly tedious and just didn‘t feel right. Unfortuantely I have never played any other Animal Crossing title. I thought they were all like that lol
ive had a lot of fun base building in palworld. its really the main reason i play it. i feel like the pals play into the base building a lot, forcing you to build around their needs. i kind of welcome that. i did have as lot of pal pathing issues, but i was able to circumvent most of it by making any room that a pal needs to enter at least two units high, three to be safe in some areas. its also got to be somewhat spacious, i double up my staircases too so that theyre wide. they give you a LOT of vertical space to work with and pals are surprisingly good at climbing staircases if built right. my only main gripe with the building mechanics might be that building this large requires so many materials. but its a pretty small and simple game compared to a lot of titles, and they also have the slider options to mitigate that if its not quite your taste. im pretty impressed by what they pulled off with it
pokemon had crafting pokeballs in generation 2, like 10 years before minecraft, criticizing how it was implemented in arceus is fair but wouldn't say it was thrown in just because they were copying minecraft.
That wasn’t really my intention but I can see why it came off that way, my bad!
I was more trying to get across that arceus made it more focal early game which I think was a result of crafting becoming a more trendy mechanic in gaming in general, not purely minecraft(:
@Ippotsuko it was much worse in gen 2, you had to wait 24 hours to get a completely worthless glitched pokeball lol while the crafting mechanics in legends just enhanced the experience, by giving you an incentive to explore and look for things.
@@calebmon point was that as a mechanic it already existed, it may have been a terrible implementation that is later improved upon but was just saying crafting already did exist to some extent even way back then.
@Ippotsuko my point was that it was much worse in gen 2. But you don't see youtube content creators complaining about it for hours like you do legends, a game which implemented the system much better
I love seeing awesome TOTK builds online, but I could not be bothered to make them myself. To be fair, mid to late game getting zonite is not that big of a deal and the autocrafter means that you only have to build it once. But yes, this video is pretty much spot on, most games I ignore the crafting mechanic (except Minecraft). My favorite kind of game is factorio or satisfactory. In these games crafting is intentionally a slog which motivates you to automate so you don't have to do it anymore.
This video was well put together (crafted), well narrated, and reasonably concise.
Got my sub!
Honestly I feel very validated as someone who has been very vocal about disliking crafting systems for years now lol. For animal crossing, you've put it all into words best I could. NH was my first one and I almost didn't play animal crossing games when I gave up because it took too long or time traveling was too much to do for a supposedly "relaxing cozy" game, New Leaf was much better and then I enjoyed Wild World just as much. With more understanding of the old games I've restarted New Horizons and it's better when ignoring some of the crafting when possible haha. Treasure islands and the shops my beloveds...
For Legends Arceus I will say so far the crafting hasn't gotten in my way. I don't remember much from the first attempt I had at playing on my family's switch, but I restarted recently and they give you a crafting key item fairly early on so you can craft pokeballs etc out in the field easily, and even though I've been catching every new Pokemon I come across I still have plenty of pokeballs and crafting material for them. Then again, I don't doubt if you weren't actively collecting material you passed (usually for exp) you could run out quickly because it 100% does have the "no place for farming materials in the fields" problem you mentioned.
Palworld surprisingly hasn't been that bad in my experience, I even quite enjoy even the crafting system in a very Minecrafty way. The only two crafting systems I can say I don't mind lol. It may be just because there's an abundance in a way and you can USUALLY collect plenty of material from one source before building your own.
In general, I can't stand crafting mechanics because it often feels tacked on to draw out gameplay. Yeah, the game will be longer if I'm sitting doing the same animation for crafting repeatedly throughout the game, or having to stop progress to build. Even worse in cases where it's a series that suddenly adds crafting haphazardly... I wish it didn't become such a trend among so many genres.
I don't really understand the hate behind Nuts & Bolts. Yes it isn't like the other BK games, but it does the building mechanics so well, I wish more games had that kind of building.
Because of what you said, it isn't a Banjo and Kazooie game. If if were a new IP it'd be a classic game, but they, for no reason made it a banjo kazooie game, when it made absolutely no sense as a banjo kazooie game
@@calebmon Particularly, the hate comes from the fact that we ONLY got a spinoff game. If it had been accompanied by another real B&K game it wouldn't have really gotten anyone upset.
I think it touches on what I mention in the video about ToTK and animal crossing, if a series isn’t known for building based vehicle mechanics and it suddenly makes the next mainline entry revolve around that instead of its original genre, then people are entirely valid in saying it sucks because of that. It’s not a fair ask of a long time fan of the existing series to suddenly enjoy this new one that’s totally different!
@LilacMonarch the game devs did not call it a spin off at the time, they said it was a successor to banjo Tooie, if they had merely called it a spin off this too could have avoided the hate, but for some reason they didn't have the foresight to see how dumb it was to make this a banjo game for no reason
@CharlieAndLuke a game like Zelda always has new ideas in each entry, with no two ever being the same, so real Zelda fans should by now, come to expect each game to have new mechanics and not get butthurt because they aren't creative enough to engage with the new gameplay mechanics as they arise. This hatred of Totk reminds me a lot of the hatred of skyward sword, wind waker, and even Majora's Mask way back in the day. All of which are regarded as masterclass games today. Totk has revolutionized how building mechanics work in games in an incredibly unique way and all of you refuse to see it for what it is, wanting it to just be an OOT clone, so it appeals to the lowest common denominator when totk is an example of what makes Zelda great, and shouldn't be reduced to shit to appeal to morons. It is getting really tiring to see youtube video after youtube video complaining about TOTK over and over and over and over. We get it, you people hate fun building mechanics and want an OOT clone.
Now I haven’t played an animal crossing game other than Animal Crossing New Horizons, but I never really thought the crafting felt out of place, it’s the same reason that crops and fruit take time to grow, or why shop selections are limited each day, or why it takes at least a full year to catch every creature. The game doesn’t want you to do everything all at once, the point is to get on, do some chores and make a bit of progress, and then log off for the day. Trying to terraform an entire island in a day is a fools errand, and I’m an idiot who is playing the game full of chores so obviously I tried to do it, and it really drains you, not just because the building and placing systems are clunky and I have joy-con drift AND I JUST WANT TO PLACE IT IN THE CORNER THERE.
But because taking on too much just isn’t fun, the game forces you to pace yourself for almost everything. (Except Vacation Homes for some reason.) The game wants you to just relax and take it slow. Is it annoying having to craft each vegetable basket individually just so I can sell my crops for slightly more? Yeah, but thats just because I’m not willing to just slow down and relax, I’m making the game more frustrating for myself.
More people need to be watching these guys. I don’t get why more people aren’t watching, these videos are good quality
Agree 100% on ToTK
It took me a bit to figure out what I didn’t like about the Tears of the Kingdom arguments, but part way through I realized it’s pretty much the exact same argument that people used for why they hated weapon durability in Breath of the Wild.
Hate collecting Batteries for your constructs?
People hated having to look under random rocks for koroks to increase their inventory slots.
Hating Collecting random components and people hating having to stockpile random weapons they don’t want to use like spears and hammers.
And I don’t think I even have to say how much people hated that the weapons could break. Zelda never had survival mechanics before? Why are they adding it to this game? (Which if I recall people also blamed Minecraft for…)
But all of these systems exist for a reason, weapons break for the same reason that rockets have limited fuel, or why gliders disappear after flying for a while.
The game doesn’t want you to just use the same thing over and over again when there’s so many things to play with.
You need to let go of the things that worked, and try out the things that are fun, when I reach a place full of components, my immediate thought isn’t “man these are all useless”. My immediate thought Is “how can I slap all of these components together into one machine to assault this Yiga outpost.”
Now, is that really what the game wanted me to do? Probably not. Is it more effective than just slapping 2 fans on a control or even just walking through the front door? Definitely not. But the game gave me springs, so I’m wanna use the springs.
The game wants me to engage with the systems, The game can’t actually fully stop me from just using the fan bike for every traversal puzzle, or just chucking Bombs at every enemy from a tall cliff. But the hint that I’m not supposed to be doing that is that *ITS REALLY FREAKING BORING.*
We players don’t want to admit it, but when presented with total freedom we don’t often choose the most fun way to play, game designers exist for a reason, and as much as being restricted feels like a pure negative, limitations can help guide the player.
If you still don’t want to engage with it that’s fine, it’s your choice, and there are plenty of things you can do to avoid building as much as possible, but it can’t be denied how impactful building was to so many Tears of the Kingdom players, all the complex contraptions people make and share online shows just how much it added to so many peoples experience and it’s hard for me to imagine getting rid of it would’ve been an improvement for much of those players.
And hey it’s not like BOTW didn’t have crafting, Baking is just Making, cooking with whatever ingredients i had was fun for me.
This is like if under the mayo tried tears of the kingdom.
Personally I just didn't enjoy the building, because I'm not interested in mixing Breath Of The Wild's navigation and exploration with engineering puzzles. I can enjoy engineering games - I have hundreds of hours in Factorio. But in Factorio's case, that is the entire focus of that game. The entire experience is built on the contemplative practise of engineering.
Meanwhile in TOTK, it felt like my grand adventure across Hyrule was constantly being interrupted by Physics homework. The two sides of the game never gelled together, for me.
As someone who never really got into Zelda but has a ton of hours logged in Garry's Mod, I absolutely LOVED TotK. It was like if Garry's Mod had a story mode with challenges to overcome via sandbox building shenanigans. I personally ended up using a dupe glitch to alleviate grinding for Zonai Devices (otherwise I'd 100% end up hoarding them) and basically played the game trying to find the funniest solution to each puzzle and searching the world for new Zonai Devices and things to play around with in an almost metroidvania-esque fashion.
I also had a great time with Echoes of Wisdom as well for the same reasons, and I'm even starting to try out some of the older Zelda games I missed out on too!
I think my entire problem with that argument is again, Zelda isn’t a series that ever had building as a central mechanic so I don’t think it’s unreasonable for some fans to voice that this isn’t what they want from the series rather than being told they’re simply “engaging with it wrong”.
“Letting go of what worked” is a kinda bizarre mindset as well that lead to the complete fracturing of the sonic fanbase and the eventual dark ages. Not saying totk is a bad game per se but there is absolutely no reason to let go of what worked really! If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it! You could have easily made a building game with another IP or a Zelda sub series!
If the game gives you a really boring but quicker and easier way to do something, then that’s really not on me for “not engaging properly” which I might have even been more likely to do if my creations didn’t disappear after half an hour and require a ton of battery life to use. Bomb arrows clear a hide out much faster and don’t involve me having to slow the pace down to build or farming zonite to auto build something I made before!
Again it just come down to not being what I wanted from a Zelda game, it changes things pretty drastically and didn’t feel like Zelda to me anymore but I’m very glad you had fun with it!(:
I also dislike the cooking btw, it’s potions with extra steps lmao
I really can't imagine preferring the irritating way of crossing water with one ice pillar at a time rather than taking 15 seconds to craft and then zooming across any size of lake.
Why would you say you wouldn't know about large crystalized charges or the rewards you get for beating minibosses on your first runthrough? The only people who wouldn't are people who rush though the game ignoring everything but the required story beats.
You also ignored the fact that if battery life is a problem, you can craft batteries to attach to your builds and they're not hard to find.
You also acted like all builds despawn quickly which is just false, only a few zonai parts do.
They despawn if you go not that far or if you go inside a loading zone, the game literally punishes you for trying to have fun and be creative, cant park your car on a shrine and expect it to be there when you are just back from inside it
Personally, if I ever have the urge to build something, I just fire up a parameteic CAD program.
Building in games is only interesting if it comes with an associated simulation system, like Cities Ckylines or something.
You completed TOTK still using wings? Wings suck.
Yeah it seems like the ramblings of an old man yelling at cloud kind of moment, like he has a skill issue when it comes to any modern game with a basic crafting system
That’s crazy because this video starts with me mentioning how much I like Minecraft😭
@CharlieAndLuke no you didn't you just said minecraft existed you never actually mention liking it, if anything you state that minecraft is boring procedurally generated terrain.
I think your problem with Zelda is that you want it to be like a mario game, where every single game is exactly the same as the last game. Every Zelda is different, get over it. Sorry, not every Zelda is gonna be HD OOT, and that's a good thing! Okay so you didn't like the incredibly simple and intuitive building system, wow what an original opinion, the cool thing is, the next Zelda won't have it. It'll be something completely different and new. That's what Zelda games do. Nearly every Zelda has unique gameplay mechanics, so why do you hate this one for doing what every other Zelda has done?
100% agree with your perspective on TotK. I actually really found it very boring, and your summary of why it's boring is exactly what I was feeling but didn't know how to put into words. Hearing it laid out like that was validating, I felt like I was crazy for being the one guy on earth that didn't fall madly in love with TotK. I actually didn't like it and never finished it (and never will).
I’m genuinely glad most people enjoyed the game! That’s great! Just did not click for me at all and I don’t think any of the things I missed like battery packs or some parts lasting 30 mins makes my feelings towards it any different. I still wouldn’t wanna spend ages creating something cool and have it respawn in half hour
I have issue with saying baldurs gate 3 doesn't need crafting. It's there because it's in dungeons and dragons. It doesn't need it, but it's important that it's their for the sake of completeness.
This is a personal option spoken as objective fact. i.e. skill diff
I mean yeah that’s what most “review” RUclips video essays are! You’re more than welcome to disagree with it!
I still think ToTk should of allowed the community to upload their custom builds online. Sure that would of made it super cheesy to be less creative but if it despawns after awhile and costs a ton of material, it's not too bad. But yea, I got tired of just using my bike fan to get around everywhere. But didn't wanna keep walking
"You're not an undead knight traversing a hopeless world" way to snap me out of my delusion. How else am is supposed to cope?
although I have mixed feelings on your takes on totk I do agree that the shrines missed the mark across the board. also I am about 3/4 through echos of wisdom and I highly recommend it! the only gripe I have so far is the scroll through my whole inventory (like totk) just to find the 1 thing I want is still there. I don't find it slowing me down I just find it making me make lazier decisions that end up killing me, making me rethink the problem with a different lense.
I’m glad you enjoyed totk more than I did! I’ll defo try echoes of wisdom at some point, too big of a fan not to, it’s just on the back burner a bit!(:
Contrast to TotK, try Trailmakers. It's has better vehicle problem-solving. The campaign, specifically. Other modes, too, but campaign is what I want to highlight here.
Maybe we have different views on this but I don't consider there to be any building mechanics in Echoes of Wisdom. Unless you consider stacking boxes building
Tbf I haven’t played it yet so very possible I’m just wrong! The trailers just gave me the impression it was gonna be a lot of stacking stuff and “building” solutions using objects I find which is a little too close to totk for me!
I prefer the classic structure if unlocking new tools as the game progresses! Botw’s method was fine too, I still enjoyed it but as I mention in the video, I think if they gave link some classic tools on top of the runs and 7 classic dungeons, it would have been golden!
Pokémon Legends Arceus -
Hold on… I think you do eventually get a portable crafting kit in this game. Am I wrong?
Animal Crossing New Horizons -
As someone who put hundreds of hours in, I’ll admit that crafting was one of many things that slowed the experience down. I think what made me accept it all long-term is that these games are ones you play over months if not years, not blast through and move on. (It’s also my first ever AC game, so I didn’t have any past experiences to go off of)
I think you’re right about arceus yeah, it’s been a while since I finished that one and completely forgot that was a thing!
@ModelAAA90 no you do not get a portable crafting kit in legends.
@CharlieAndLuke you might be thinking of elden ring
@@calebmon I looked it up just in case and yes there is one you get from a quest, with the drawback that you can only use materials you have on hand.
@ModelAAA90 oh wow! You're totally right! Guess its just so useless I forgot about it entirely lol, it's prob better to just teleport to a nearby camp site and craft with all materials you own in most scenarios
My thoughts on totk's crafting is that while Zelda is not a crafting game, it has always been a puzzle game. Totk just lets you make the dumbest solutions to said puzzle. Is there an easy option for this puzzle? Yes. But how dumb can this solution be? How many puzzles are solved with a really long stick? How many shape blocks fit in the square hole?
My second playthrough was extremely different from my first mainly from one choice I made. I used autobuild a lot more but never got the parts and just used zonite. Buying 30 charges for 90 zonite is dumb and you get 100 from only 15 large zonite so I used the growing stockpile of zonite to see what those templates the game gives out are for. They certainly get stupid and i love it.
It’s a difference in what you’re looking for I think! I don’t find dumb solutions to be terribly entertaining in Zelda! 3D Zelda especially has always felt quite “cool” imo and stylish! Botw had this super serene atmosphere to it that felt very grounded and the shrines felt mystical and mysterious.
Totk as you say, gets super silly and goofy with the janky, literally glued together solutions to puzzles and weapons that are just sword tied to other swords. This somewhat kills the tone that botw set imo and it didn’t make me feel cool or smart for solving puzzles, it made me feel like I’d barely got through something by just throwing shit at the wall and seeing what stuck!
Still I’m super glad you had fun with it! I’m sure future playthroughs will yield even more whacky results!(:
2:00 unintuitive building and engineering even so this system are fun when whe now how it's work compare for example of minecraft redstonne which is very limited in is possibilities, it's he miracle that whe just rently toward the minecraft history are able to create he custom-build that can just move forward , most of the time this system is use for factory, doors and computer, if you go outside those domain you could encounter hard limitation. But they are still hope game like primordialis on even the specialized stormworks or even mage of mystralia as show diffent topic and situation on that domain, expect if for you engineering game and building game aren't same genre
Fallout 4 also has an unnecessary building system in my opinion.
You mean the settlement building mechanics? I thought in Fallout 4 specifically that they were a great feature as it lets you set a base whereever you want on the map (well if you have unlocked the quest, that indeed wasn‘t a good system imo). It acts as a save space, a hub with all your NPCs and crafting benches, grands some creative freedom on how you build or decorate. Some items laying in the world may even be collected just for decoration purpose only. In my opinion it added to the role playing factor of the game.
@@teddyboucher1848 honestly it’s the main reason I even play Fallout 4, sure the gunplay is good but the older games ultimately had the cooler combat because of how much your build effected everything, if it wasn’t for settlement building it wouldn’t be nearly as fun.
@teddyboucher1848 everything seems unnecessary if you refuse to engage with a games incredibly simple and intuitive crafting system.
Elden Ring is another dumb crafting insert. The fact that they allowed resins to be bought in DS3 and reverted that for ER is annoying.
i dunno i quite liked it, it allowed me to make ammunition and i was less wary about using my items as i knew i could get more of them where as in ds1 i never used any items as i wasnt ever sure i would get more