Does @EmilAbrahamsson need to get stronger?
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- Опубликовано: 20 июн 2024
- @EmilAbrahamsson joined us at the Lattice HQ to run through the hardest climbing test in the world. The question is, does Emil have what it takes to push his climbing to the next level? The results surprised us!
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Thanks for having me homies! I’ve actually started using this information as motivation in my training 🤓
Thanks again Emil, really great to see you. Can't wait for the next one :D
Main take away: scream more? ;) Just for science you should have tried powerscreaming during every test, maybe it helps with flexibility too (considering how flexible Adam is).
In all honesty though, great video and all the best for your journey to V16!
Did you get on the grit?
Yeah I guess you should go try silence now
“Solid V2 in my gym.”
Brilliant 😂
4:10 “Solid v2 in my gym” I DIED 😂😂😂😂
i can show you a V4 where this is quite precisely....
Power screaming gives an extra 10 kilos? Guess that Adam Ondra video wasn't an April fool's joke after all
its been shown that screaming can help you generate force, hence why climbers, weightlifters, tennispros, etc are doing it when trying hard
Right! I was amazed it was such a big difference.
@@raiemie7365It does, but I think with tennis it might be more for distracting the opponent. Sometimes the screams are a split second late with respect to the hit
@@karimchahine4883 often with tennis the grunts are more of an exhale thing: hold breath before hit, hit, exhale (grunt)
I'm watching him on these hangs and realizing I don't try nearly hard enough. Dang dude. Super impressive effort.
4:50 remember when Emil was co-commentator at a competition and he claimed that a power-scream would give you 27% extra force?
Turns out, that it's only ~20%.
That power scream brought all the boys to the wall
Love seeing all the Lattice assessments, so interesting seeing all these incredibly strong people have such different strengths and weaknesses.
So cool we see the power scream in the graph! ❤ Emil is a beast 🔥 Emil join us rope climbers instead 🤣
so going to include a power scream into my workouts from now on.
I always say people who don't power scream don't give everything they got. Now I have the data 😄
Not that I needed the data.
I mean, how could anyone think they are giving everything, EVERYTHING they got, and stay silent like a mouse?! It's just not possible.
"solid v2 in my gym"
Avoid trolls by trolling yourself first 🤣
The most interesting thing here to consider is that given Emil's results for Critical Force and what he said he spends a lot of time doing versus what he thinks he's best at, shows us just how wrong we can get it sometimes in our head, but get it right in our bodies. Given these things, he seems much more inclined to be better at producing a semi-high strength for a long period of time because he trains that all the time! But for whatever mental reason he still tells himself that he's best at power, something we're probably all guilty of throughout our training. Another consideration here you mention is timing. There is still a long way to come in measuring skill and technique. SO many pro climbers spend so much time climbing lots of different things consistently that they learn to use the strength they have better and thus don't need more strength like the rest of us plebeians! Definitely what I admire most about these high-level climbers
That, or it shows us that so few people climb v16 that the sample they are comparing to is so small it's almost irrelevant.
Thanks for the content! I'd be really interested to hear a discussion about how to train the "weaknesses" here. Obviously Emil is powerful! Would love to hear a breakdown/analysis of how these numbers directly relate to climbs
Before watching, I hope the answer is "NO", because if he does need to get stronger, who doesn't?
Even Jimmy Webb or Matt Fultz who are quite possibly the strongest (or at least, burliest) boulderers out there will tell you that they need to get stronger
Super cool video y’all 👏
Emil also has a good chance for a great scream song that could land in top 10 climbing gym playlist.
Would love to see Cordelia do this test!! 😅
I love to listen to Emil's screams
Nice vid !
About the rfd though : you compare him with route 8a climbers and bouldering v15 climber (that’s what’s written anyway) but the mean for both is the same (around 280ms) I’m just a bit surprised that an 8a lead climber would have even close of an rfd as a v15 boulderer
Great content anyway🔥 it’s always nice to see all those data put to use and shared to everyone 💪🙏
Would be really interesting to see Emil's results compared to V14
Shouldn't measurements involving repetitions (like push ups, pull ups, etc) involve consistent cadence to accurately measure / compare with others?
In a world where you're aiming for the highest quality, lowest volume data collection that may be put forward for peer reviewed research, then yes. In the real world though, there's a line between theory and practice, which must be found! As you imagine, we've done a LOT of testing over the years (both commercially and for our own peer reviewed research) and we find what we're doing is pretty effective. Hope that helps give a bit of context :-)
Could this have anything to do with the fingerboard experiment you did?
We need to see you guys test a speed climber.
v2 in my gym had me dieing
Yeeeeeeees!!! Scientific evidence for more Emil power screams!!
I always wondered, is there any reason why you do max push ups instead of max weighted dips (or even weighted push ups?)
Great question! I'd add bench press too as this is good for 1RM or 2RM tests. The main barrier here is equipment. Our remote assessment is designed so that the majority can do it at a regular climbing gym. We've found many gyms still don't have a decent weight lifting set up. In many cases, just a hangboard and a bar with a few weights is all that's available.
Ohh I see! I didn't suggest bench pressing because it requires a lot more technique, coordination and there are many different ways to do it (with influence of spine mobility). But I see, thank you!
@@LatticeTraining Mine doesn't even even have weights to go with the 6 different hang boards and 7 types of campus rungs.
Between a hang board, a decent pull up bar, rings and a bunch of random weights, I have a better setup at home than at the gym.
You call those pushups lol
@@LatticeTraining I would suggest standardizing the pushups by requiering to lift the hands off the floor at the bottom of each rep. This foreces everyone to do a full range of motion and should give more consistent data.
How did you shape up with some of the other professional climbers that came through as well?
It is nice that tall and heavy (compared to pro climbers) person can get such good results.
Like always great video, love to see them suffer.. until it's my turn 😂 Two points of criticism though: The pull-up bar should be stabilized so there's only movement of the climber. And it's hard to see if the push-ups were all the way down, or place an object beneath so the elbows are always at 90 degrees maximum as the end point (for high ape-indexers or those with poor shoulder mobility this is a bit nicer).
on the apley test I can handshake myself
what a beast :D
I find this a bit weird. Press ups are very specific, if I do them regularly I am good a press ups, bit if I do bench, or flys or dips, it doesn't help much. I'm not sure we are learning much. And the fact that the only leg test is stretching (rather than say pistols or replicating a highleg position) is just weird. Love the idea but I feel like more work required.
Surely the flexibility tests are quite limiting this way? If you made him do 30mins of mobility work and then retest I bet you the results would be super different.
As long as it's equal for everyone this shouldn't matter. In one way it's even more "fair"
@@brakza fair enough, if comparison is the only goal then yes. I just question how helpful it is for someone to test their flexibility ‘cold’ and their power while fatigued. I feel like it would give a skewed picture of what needs work.
11:12 Are these scales corrected for height? As in: is "mean" the mean for v15 climbers, or v15 climbers with a similar height to emil? Emil's quite tall so its kind of a given hed be in the lower end, wouldn't it be more insightful to compare against similar heights? As you know from your data, 95% bw hung at 6'0" is a world apart from 95% bw hung at 5'6", it barely seems useful to compare the two.
I'm aware that you don't have an endless supply of v15 climber data either way of course :)
lighter = better for climbing , it is likely the case emil is stronger than stefano ghisolfi but stefan can climb harder as hes lighter.
Pretty sure it's just the average and yes that might be a big part of why Emil found the results surprising. He also has a big arm span and wouldn't use the same beta if possible. He has quite a lot of volume and the inverse cube law is not helping.
It'd be interesting to see if repeating the RFD test when he's a bit fresher changed the result. I'd expect RFD to be the first thing to suffer when tired.
I wouldn't as initial high velocity work is usually quite fatigue resistant. most skilled athletes should be able to produce a similar velocity of pullup with appropriate rest between each set for the first pullup, and then with fatigue will see this drop significantly on following reps. Those rapid contractions will function similar, producing strength at velocity, but the RFD does seem quite off for someone of Emil's capabilities.
A question here : does the RFD measures the time from the bip to the time the force is applied, or the time from the first force applied to maximum force achieved in this run ?
obviously not certain of their setup, but in testing athletes with dynamometers, these tend to begin reading when a minimum force is applied, a few kg, and until a designated time is reached, usually 250ms.
I imagine Josh has done enough of this to assure accuracy and the scale shown on screen compared to climbers makes this seem like he has no RFD versus simply poor compared to other climbers.
@@zacharylaschober Makes sense, thanks. I guess so, yeah, was just curious to understand how someone able to do 1-5-9 can have poor contact strength, seems very counter-intuitive.
@@Ptitviaud1337 campus boards are usually poor for development of contact strength or power, especially on much longer spans, because these are highly skill based movements which predominantly rely on lockoffs.
However, I get the point that watching Emil you would believe he has plenty of contact.
@@zacharylaschober I think you got the point, but maybe we could elaborate here together (i'm following my line of thoughts): ultimately, campusing relies on contact strength, lock-off AND contraction speed. You can have, for the sake of the argument, any mix of that (so, lets say high contraction, high lock off power, poor contact strength) and perform. Would be interesting to then isolate Lock off/explosiveness. The reason why i'm thinking about that is that i'm interested in finding a pretty easy way to measure contact strength, without using specific tools.
@@Ptitviaud1337 following that, I think the problem with the 1-5-9 metric is we are adding several skill elements into this. 1-4-7 reduces much of the lockoff and skill, as will 1-3-5, but ultimately if we are measuring contact strength without an rfd device then I think snatches to edges are better. especially if we have an open and full rung akin to campus rungs, what you would do is find a rung which can be held isometrically at a weight and see what percentage of that weight a climber could do by snatching the hold, basically a small hop without time to recruit for the hang.
what would we do to train contact strength? have an athlete attempt to grab holds with greater force, either by increasing the speed they hit the holds or the weight.
Is there a league table us normies can check out to see how these Pro climbers rank against one another from these tests? Would be cool to see
It was not a wise decision to try and watch it at work. "Why are you watching slaughterhouse footage? You are already vegan..."
"Why are your palms sweating Abel, what are you watching?"
Emil's eyes at 6:00 👀
Though I was watching DBZ for a minute during the repeaters
id be afraid to pull a tendon from these tests D:
Crazy to me Emil is considered weak for his grade, damn V15/16 is insane.
As someone that is closer to 30 than 20, half of these tests would leave me injured. Lol
Yes. As do we all. We are all pathetically weak and need to get stronger.
Stabilise the pull up bar might give more accurate data. That's some energy lost I reckon?
Haha yes true. I've never seen it move that much however, so didn't know it would be a issue. It very likely this was the first time someone was pulling
Why do I hold my phone so hard
This is so great - those push-ups were… not 😂
How does contact strength compare between heavier and lighter climbers? Could it be that lighter climbers have better RFD since they are generally more dynamic because they tend to be shorter
I would be very curious what Emil's strength metrics are without relating everything to bodyweight. I would guess he might even be significantly stronger than the average V16 climber. Obviously bodyweight is a major factor in climbing, but a taller climber with the same power to weight ratio as a smaller climber would theoretically be able to make bigger moves and hold static positions more easily. For that reason I find this data interesting, but potentially misleading and very skewed towards smaller climbers.
You are correct that data will skew towards shorter climbers. Shorter, lighter people, can achieve a greater S:W ratio than their taller peers. A good place to observe this is the weighted pull-up world records, ordered by weight category. Knowing this we compare relative (to bodyweight) results to other climbers of similar height. So the results you see are from a data model of similar height climbers, not all climbers we've tested. We do this because we can see a clear trend that shorter climbers tend to have (need?) more strength for a given grade.
@@LatticeTraining Ok, cool to see you guys are factoring that in! Perhaps as a bigger climber myself I get defensive for the big dudes. My apologies if I was over critical. Do you guys have anywhere people could look at the data you record from each climber?
he's massive
Iwas wondering why he sounded a bit hoarse in the burden of replicas video!
Real question: how strict are you testing on form for the push-ups? Because arguably, the push-ups performed were not "clean". Cleaner push-ups would be more difficult and result in less reps, and in the end what you're testing would be different. So I wonder why not test for push-ups which have a 2 sec down, 1 sec up movement, engaged core, head straight, instead of just pumping out as many half push-ups as possible?
The form is not super strict as this is not the best allocation of time/focus resource when it comes to testing. Where you DO want to be stricter is when it comes to finger strength or max pull up tests. As always it’s a balance of theory and practicality 😊
@@tomrandall8348 thank you for the reply! It makes absolut sense when you put it like this. I always worry about form because of the risk of injuries, but like you said, it's a balance, especially when testing
@@Watashiwapitadesu I think notably for pushups they are more concerned with it in a cardio/muscular endurance regard and even then only a bit because it has little relation to climbing. Therefore they don’t mind the reps being sloppy. With pull-ups there is an easy standard to keep with the chin reaching above the bar.
Every single pushup was a half rep
Yeah I was looking at that too. If it's actually part of the test everyone should do them in identical fashion, and probably do actual pushups...
Depends what he's been told and whether it compares to the reps of the other V15 climbers. That test is a bit loose and not very important anyway.
Emil member of r/climbingcirclejerk confirmed
Summary was generated by Summatim, let us know if there are any inaccuracies! 🤖
0:01: Introduction
0:42: Strength Metrics
0:14: Fitness Metrics
0:31: Bouldering Goals
10:27: Finger Strength
2:26: Rate Force Development
1:30: Endurance
13:30: Training
14:54: Muscular endurance
15:18: Conditioning
16:13: Testing
Emil trying to be Adam Ondra over here.... 😂
i would love to see alex megos here !
Good call! We did actually do an assessment with him a number of years ago where he did the finger strength tests and also the original Lattice Board testing. Interestingly, the first person to beat his 50 degree power endurance board test was a young Will Bosi...
Sounds like Emil should spend more time on a rope and send 9a!
Dang, the push up form is so bad im surprised it went online
Understandably, people can get overly critical on 'form' when it comes to press ups, bench press, deadlift (perhaps there's even a bit of a culture of this online?!) but take it from our perspective that we've worked with 1000s of climbers around the world - from keen weekend warriors to pro athletes like Alex Honnold, Will Bosi, Hazel Findlay etc - and we're pretty satisfied with the practical balance of 'perfect' form vs 'good enough' form when it comes to this type of content. In the long run we see too many people out there read overly critical comments about form online who then go on to be too nervous to try out many of the exercises themselves that it then becomes counterproductive.
I feel like, at some point, telling Emil he's not strong enough has the same energy as telling an anorexic that they're not slim enough 😂
lol is he sick also?
First??
Bad form on push ups
Sorry but those are not proper push-ups ;)
What's up with his voice