Thanks for such a great informative video Rick! I purchased a new 4160 about 7 years ago and I love it! I appreciate the tip to deal with the lightning throw off switch noise. My inspiration to seek this snare out was my love of Tony Williams' snare sound on those 60s recordings and then finding a Gretsch ad featuring Tony with that black Gretsch kit from a 1960s Downbeat Magazine ad - it listed the 4160 snare and I knew I had the check that drum out!
Hey Rick, thank you so much for doing ALL of these videos... I have been a "one snare drum and kit for everything" guy ever since I bought my first snare/kit in 1982 (N.A.R.D. solos, HS jazz band, college rock bands, cover bands etc). I think my days of playing "Don't Stop Believing" and "Living on a Prayer" will soon be winding down so, I decided a few months ago that I'd like to get back in to playing jazz again (well, at least try. It's been "a while"). I started looking up jazz drumming on RUclips and discovered your channel. The videos are great... and very motivational. I bought your book and have been experiencing the "enjoyable frustration" of learning to play over the ostinatos - it's great. Back to the "snare of the week" topic. I have decided that after 43 years of only owning a single single snare drum, it'd be ok (I think I've earned it) for me to own a second one which, I'd like to be geared towards playing jazz. So... really looking forward to this series to help me decide. I think my favorite so far, from watching your other vids, is the Krupa COB, but we'll see. Who knows, I may even go "crazy" and get two more snares. Thx again
Nothing wrong with that. 1 or 2 drums should be plenty for most folks. I just have a thing for snare drums. Luckily I have had 1 wife for 35 years so there is that!
@@craigwilliams501 I was going to do a quick reply to this but, I have 2 hours to kill before I head out, so figured why not spend the time typing in a lengthy comment. (Maybe reading my comment here can help someone else who is also trying to kill some time before they have to head out somewhere too). The original "one snare" (my first snare), was a Tama Imperialstar Kingbeat purchased around 1980. That was chosen because... I was 12, the music store salesman said "this is a good one", and my parents were willing to pay for it. For 3 years, that was my snare for learning to read music, rudiments, "stick control", "syncopation", a "Podemski" book (which I never see anyone mention these days) etc, along with studying bells, vibraphone, timpani. I wanted to join the HS jazz band when I was 14, so needed a kit. My teacher recommended a used 1960s gold sparkle Rogers kit. It didn't come with a snare so, the "one snare" was still the Tama. That kit would be used for "Satin Doll", and then an hour later, for "Stairway to Heaven". In college, I was asked if I would be willing to "grow my hair long and join a metal band" (it was the 80s). With the money I probably saved on haircuts, I was able to trade in the gold sparkle Rogers kit for a "bigger Rogers kit". The Tama was now playing Judas Priest and Iron Maiden. After college, I joined a rock band, bought Tama Rockstar kit, which also didn't come with a snare, so... the Tama Imperialstar it was. Around '97 I decided to start playing with singer/songwriters and play in very small rooms (20 - 30 people eating/drinking - so multi-rods, brushes). The Rockstar kit was def overkill for that so, I sold it and I bought a used Pearl Export 20/12/14. I assumed I'd use the same Tama snare but... I felt the Tama metal snare was too loud/harsh for the singer/songwriter genre so... I traded that in for a Pearl Masters Maple - my new "one snare". (and, I think my wording of "a single snare drum for 43 years" unintentionally implied that I have owned "one amazing snare drum that has been great for everything I've done for the past 43 years". That was meant as "I've only ever owned/used one kit/snare at a time for 43 years). 17 years ago, I joined a cover band and traded in the Pearl kit/snare for a DW kit/snare. (we're almost up to preset time - and, I need to leave soon!) I sold the DW kit/snare recently because I thought I was moving out of the country. But then the move didn't end up happening. What has been interesting (for me at least), is that this time around, when looking for a new kit, RUclips exists... All my previous purchases (17 years ago and earlier) for drums/snare/cymbals, have been made as a result of me walking into a store and trying them out first. It's an amazing time, especially as a drummer, that all these review videos are out there for drums/cymbals/heads, even beaters and snare wires etc. You can really take the time to find exactly what you want. And obviously it's great too that all this educational material exists as well... So... to (finally) answer the question, the current "one snare" I'm using now, for a "cover band kit", is a 60s Acrolite along with a Yamaha Tour Custom 20/12/16. For my "jazz kit", to keep things simple (be able to share cases/hardware), I bought the Tour Custom "bop kit" 18/12/14. The "one snare" for this is going to be ???. We shall see.
Thanks again for an amazing video Rick, you're channel is a gem for anyone interested in musicianship, jazzdrums, drums and good gear/instruments. It's also great to get into drums with your channel and easily recommended to others. I don't think I know any channel who does such a wide spectrum of a subject and comprehensive reviews/demos like you do. thx and have a great day
I have a Gretsch 4160 round badge that I bought brand new about 10 years ago. I get the same results as your round badge version, Rick. The square badge is extremely dry. Sounds like the Snare drum used in the Flintstones animated show.😂 The Ludwig does have more snare response and sounds the most snary .... if that makes sense. The round badge Gretsch has the most body to my ears?! Fatter?! At least the Rimshots do?! Great video demonstration. Beautiful playing. By the way Rick... Merry Christmas!!
Very interesting. Thanks also for all your valuable videos. I have had the new Gretsch 4160 model for a few months and it also makes noise around the throw-off. Where on the throw-off should I apply the rubber piece? sorry but I didn't quite understand your advice from the video 😢. Thanks!
First off, Rick you are such a great drummer. Second, No one will like my opinion likely, but I love the sound of the stop sign badge drum. That to me is awesome. Third, I need a time machine, because I bought a stop sign one ( exactly like yours ) new in 1973. Like a fool I sold it for ????????? Maybe a LM400? Can't remember, but I want it back now.
The 4160 didn't get the little reeded engraved line around the center until 64 I believe. The earlier ones didn't have it. I have one of those. I also have a 4164 which has an aluminum shell.
Rick I am fairly sure that your 4160’s are less than 10 years apart in age as Gretsch went to the later lightning strainer with the center arm and the closed style butt by the end of the 1970’s. I like the dryness of the square badge one but the round badge one is fuller and more musical sounding. Great drums. I have an early 70’s aluminum 4108 that I like.
Wow! What a difference between the two Gretsch snares! I definitely love the Round Badge drum the most but dig the Stop Sign badge drum too! What is recording this audio Rick? GREAT playing as always Rick, and I am still working on your Hand Exercises from our lesson and material in your Drum set book!
@rickdior either way u have my respect. I've been watching ur videos for sometime and it's really helped me undo a lot of bad habits that I had for some time. Hats off to u sir
@rickdior either way you definitely have my respect. I've been watching your videos for some time and I have to say they've really helped me undo a lot of bad habits that I picked up along the way in my 20 years of playing drums. Hats off to you sir. This is my second time sending this reply lol sorry Im not sure the first one went through
I had a newer 4160 for a couple years and never really fell in love with it, always seemed a bit too sharp sounding especially for jazz. I did like it with triple flange hoops instead of the die cast, much more open. Eventually ended up selling it, prefer Supras and acrolites.
I am curious to hear you talk about Murry Spivack. I never heard of him before today. I like his method of middle finger fulcrum. what are your thoughts.
Excellent! I think there's also an earlier round badge version (late 50's ? early 60's) with no knurled ring around the center. I've seen pictures of Jimmy Cobb playing one. I'm not sure if it has the same model number though.
I have two without the knurling. One still has a sticker and it's indeed a 4160. Different strainer than what's in the video as well. I think it's a micro sensitive strainer.
If the new strainer touches the rim when off put the rubber pieces between the parts that are touching. You can also use the soft loop side of a piece of velcro tape. I don't have a newer drum so I am not sure if the problem is the same as the old strainers.
This is a great series, thanks Rick. Is it possible with some of the snares to hear with diff weight/ bead sticks, and why you might use a particular (for your orch work)? The 4160 round was so interesting I wanted to hear how it responded to different tips. (I guess I should ask whether you swtch sticks v. often(?), or prefer to use your signature sticks and your touch? Thank you
I actually happen to love the Lightning strainer. It doesn’t rattle in the off position on my 14X5 USA Custom snare. Granted, it’s fairly new (ca. 2008). It also has two small rubber bumpers on the top of the plate, which prevent it from making a metal-on-metal clunk when you engage the snares. (I’ve seen those two bumpers completely worn off on some specimens.)
I like the Lightning strainer as well. I flip it off to play the drum with the snares disengaged, and I can re-engage the snares with just my hihat knee easily as I play, without taking my hands and sticks off the drum. It’s pretty cool, and the only snare (I own) that I can do that with. And I can control various tensions of the strainer with my knee as I play the drum at the same time. I encourage everyone with the drum to try it, another fun trick in the arsenal.
If the tag falls off or disintegrates over time the serial # is lost. An unfortunate decision by Gretsch not to etch the serial # onto the badge as other manufacturers would do at the time.
![Blox Fruits Dragon Rework Update [Full Stream]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/EqDAp8udhm0/mqdefault.jpg)
That stop-sign badge Gretsch is an absolute gem to my ears ... A true standout.
thanks' for the quick response Rick. Love your channel. I like the snare episodes and the lessons. Thank You!
Thanks for such a great informative video Rick! I purchased a new 4160 about 7 years ago and I love it! I appreciate the tip to deal with the lightning throw off switch noise. My inspiration to seek this snare out was my love of Tony Williams' snare sound on those 60s recordings and then finding a Gretsch ad featuring Tony with that black Gretsch kit from a 1960s Downbeat Magazine ad - it listed the 4160 snare and I knew I had the check that drum out!
Dang, that Round Badge drum sounds amazing!
Rick your playing is absolutely AMAZING! Like I said before, my fav drummer on RUclips for certain!!
Charlie Watts's go to snare from 69 to 78! Its crazy how much variety of sounds he got from it. I own a vintage SSB 4160 and love it.
Ooooo! I really like that round badge! Round badge and Ludwig for the tie!
This my number one snare drum. Love it. The Sonor Phil Rudd signature snare is basically a copy of this snare. Cheers Rick! Thanks for your videos!
Hey Rick, thank you so much for doing ALL of these videos... I have been a "one snare drum and kit for everything" guy ever since I bought my first snare/kit in 1982 (N.A.R.D. solos, HS jazz band, college rock bands, cover bands etc). I think my days of playing "Don't Stop Believing" and "Living on a Prayer" will soon be winding down so, I decided a few months ago that I'd like to get back in to playing jazz again (well, at least try. It's been "a while"). I started looking up jazz drumming on RUclips and discovered your channel. The videos are great... and very motivational. I bought your book and have been experiencing the "enjoyable frustration" of learning to play over the ostinatos - it's great. Back to the "snare of the week" topic. I have decided that after 43 years of only owning a single single snare drum, it'd be ok (I think I've earned it) for me to own a second one which, I'd like to be geared towards playing jazz. So... really looking forward to this series to help me decide. I think my favorite so far, from watching your other vids, is the Krupa COB, but we'll see. Who knows, I may even go "crazy" and get two more snares. Thx again
Nothing wrong with that.
1 or 2 drums should be plenty for most folks.
I just have a thing for snare drums.
Luckily I have had 1 wife for 35 years so there is that!
Just curious - what is your 'one snare'?
Check out the Tama starphonic series,especially the maple 6x14, and the nickel over brass version.
@@davidsuprenant893 Thank you - I will check it out!
@@craigwilliams501 I was going to do a quick reply to this but, I have 2 hours to kill before I head out, so figured why not spend the time typing in a lengthy comment. (Maybe reading my comment here can help someone else who is also trying to kill some time before they have to head out somewhere too).
The original "one snare" (my first snare), was a Tama Imperialstar Kingbeat purchased around 1980. That was chosen because... I was 12, the music store salesman said "this is a good one", and my parents were willing to pay for it. For 3 years, that was my snare for learning to read music, rudiments, "stick control", "syncopation", a "Podemski" book (which I never see anyone mention these days) etc, along with studying bells, vibraphone, timpani.
I wanted to join the HS jazz band when I was 14, so needed a kit. My teacher recommended a used 1960s gold sparkle Rogers kit. It didn't come with a snare so, the "one snare" was still the Tama. That kit would be used for "Satin Doll", and then an hour later, for "Stairway to Heaven".
In college, I was asked if I would be willing to "grow my hair long and join a metal band" (it was the 80s). With the money I probably saved on haircuts, I was able to trade in the gold sparkle Rogers kit for a "bigger Rogers kit". The Tama was now playing Judas Priest and Iron Maiden.
After college, I joined a rock band, bought Tama Rockstar kit, which also didn't come with a snare, so... the Tama Imperialstar it was.
Around '97 I decided to start playing with singer/songwriters and play in very small rooms (20 - 30 people eating/drinking - so multi-rods, brushes). The Rockstar kit was def overkill for that so, I sold it and I bought a used Pearl Export 20/12/14. I assumed I'd use the same Tama snare but... I felt the Tama metal snare was too loud/harsh for the singer/songwriter genre so... I traded that in for a Pearl Masters Maple - my new "one snare".
(and, I think my wording of "a single snare drum for 43 years" unintentionally implied that I have owned "one amazing snare drum that has been great for everything I've done for the past 43 years". That was meant as "I've only ever owned/used one kit/snare at a time for 43 years).
17 years ago, I joined a cover band and traded in the Pearl kit/snare for a DW kit/snare.
(we're almost up to preset time - and, I need to leave soon!)
I sold the DW kit/snare recently because I thought I was moving out of the country. But then the move didn't end up happening.
What has been interesting (for me at least), is that this time around, when looking for a new kit, RUclips exists... All my previous purchases (17 years ago and earlier) for drums/snare/cymbals, have been made as a result of me walking into a store and trying them out first.
It's an amazing time, especially as a drummer, that all these review videos are out there for drums/cymbals/heads, even beaters and snare wires etc. You can really take the time to find exactly what you want. And obviously it's great too that all this educational material exists as well...
So... to (finally) answer the question, the current "one snare" I'm using now, for a "cover band kit", is a 60s Acrolite along with a Yamaha Tour Custom 20/12/16. For my "jazz kit", to keep things simple (be able to share cases/hardware), I bought the Tour Custom "bop kit" 18/12/14. The "one snare" for this is going to be ???. We shall see.
Thanks again for an amazing video Rick, you're channel is a gem for anyone interested in musicianship, jazzdrums, drums and good gear/instruments. It's also great to get into drums with your channel and easily recommended to others. I don't think I know any channel who does such a wide spectrum of a subject and comprehensive reviews/demos like you do. thx and have a great day
Thanks Jordy
I have a Gretsch 4160 round badge that I bought brand new about 10 years ago. I get the same results as your round badge version, Rick. The square badge is extremely dry. Sounds like the Snare drum used in the Flintstones animated show.😂
The Ludwig does have more snare response and sounds the most snary .... if that makes sense.
The round badge Gretsch has the most body to my ears?! Fatter?! At least the Rimshots do?!
Great video demonstration. Beautiful playing.
By the way Rick... Merry Christmas!!
I have later version of that snare, I love that snare. I agree with you the noises. I love those snares and they’re great. Great video Rick.
Round badge for the win...
Very interesting. Thanks also for all your valuable videos.
I have had the new Gretsch 4160 model for a few months and it also makes noise around the throw-off. Where on the throw-off should I apply the rubber piece? sorry but I didn't quite understand your advice from the video 😢. Thanks!
8 lug is far more open than the 10, love it.
First off, Rick you are such a great drummer. Second, No one will like my opinion likely, but I love the sound of the stop sign badge drum. That to me is awesome. Third, I need a time machine, because I bought a stop sign one ( exactly like yours ) new in 1973. Like a fool I sold it for ????????? Maybe a LM400? Can't remember, but I want it back now.
Thanks for you comment.
It's definitely got its thing and does sound great in certain mixes.
I use it on Motown/Stax type of tunes in the studio.
Round badge sound best in my opinion :D
The 4160 didn't get the little reeded engraved line around the center until 64 I believe. The earlier ones didn't have it. I have one of those. I also have a 4164 which has an aluminum shell.
Round badge for the win.
Rick I am fairly sure that your 4160’s are less than 10 years apart in age as Gretsch went to the later lightning strainer with the center arm and the closed style butt by the end of the 1970’s. I like the dryness of the square badge one but the round badge one is fuller and more musical sounding. Great drums. I have an early 70’s aluminum 4108 that I like.
Thanks for the info.
They definitely changed the shell construction as the round badge drum is lighter and sounds completely different to me.
Wow! What a difference between the two Gretsch snares!
I definitely love the Round Badge drum the most but dig the Stop Sign badge drum too!
What is recording this audio Rick?
GREAT playing as always Rick, and I am still working on your Hand Exercises from our lesson and material in your Drum set book!
Hi
The mics are Neumann U89 overheads. The preamps are Grace and the recording system is IZ Radar.
Thanks
Great early Christmas present. Can you share the tunebot frequencies top and bottom? Thanks.
I don't use a tune bot for this. G to an A on top. F# on the bottom.
Are we sure ur not a historian???? You're my dear sir are a wealth of knowledge
I am most definitely not an historian.
Thanks
@rickdior either way u have my respect. I've been watching ur videos for sometime and it's really helped me undo a lot of bad habits that I had for some time. Hats off to u sir
@rickdior either way you definitely have my respect. I've been watching your videos for some time and I have to say they've really helped me undo a lot of bad habits that I picked up along the way in my 20 years of playing drums. Hats off to you sir. This is my second time sending this reply lol sorry Im not sure the first one went through
I had a newer 4160 for a couple years and never really fell in love with it, always seemed a bit too sharp sounding especially for jazz. I did like it with triple flange hoops instead of the die cast, much more open. Eventually ended up selling it, prefer Supras and acrolites.
I am curious to hear you talk about Murry Spivack. I never heard of him before today. I like his method of middle finger fulcrum. what are your thoughts.
I didn't know him and I don't use that grip so I have no comment on that.
Excellent! I think there's also an earlier round badge version (late 50's ? early 60's) with no knurled ring around the center. I've seen pictures of Jimmy Cobb playing one. I'm not sure if it has the same model number though.
I have two without the knurling. One still has a sticker and it's indeed a 4160. Different strainer than what's in the video as well. I think it's a micro sensitive strainer.
Thanks Matthew
The very early ones did not have the etched ring.
Hello Rick, very interesting video - thanks a lot. Gretsch built the 4160 nowadays. What about the very new ones...are they sounding much different?
If the new strainer touches the rim when off put the rubber pieces between the parts that are touching.
You can also use the soft loop side of a piece of velcro tape.
I don't have a newer drum so I am not sure if the problem is the same as the old strainers.
Hi
I do not have a new one so I cannot comment on that.
did you do all the woodwork in your studio? looks great!
Yes, that's my hobby.
This is a great series, thanks Rick. Is it possible with some of the snares to hear with diff weight/ bead sticks, and why you might use a particular (for your orch work)?
The 4160 round was so interesting I wanted to hear how it responded to different tips. (I guess I should ask whether you swtch sticks v. often(?), or prefer to use your signature sticks and your touch? Thank you
I will do that when I feature the orchestra drums.
On drumset and these snares I always use my signature stick.
To my ears round badge sounds the best,
I actually happen to love the Lightning strainer. It doesn’t rattle in the off position on my 14X5 USA Custom snare. Granted, it’s fairly new (ca. 2008). It also has two small rubber bumpers on the top of the plate, which prevent it from making a metal-on-metal clunk when you engage the snares. (I’ve seen those two bumpers completely worn off on some specimens.)
I like the Lightning strainer as well. I flip it off to play the drum with the snares disengaged, and I can re-engage the snares with just my hihat knee easily as I play, without taking my hands and sticks off the drum. It’s pretty cool, and the only snare (I own) that I can do that with. And I can control various tensions of the strainer with my knee as I play the drum at the same time. I encourage everyone with the drum to try it, another fun trick in the arsenal.
I flick it off and on with my index finger. It is, indeed, lightning fast.
You must have a newer version since all of the old ones rattled.
I have a 4160 without the engraved band around the shell. It’s just plain. I think it’s 60-65 era. It has the paper tag, too. (Round badge)
Yes, those would be the very early ones.
Prefer the Stop Sign sound. As Gergo Borlai says - “It’s got that Flintstones sound”… 😎
Get ready to march into battle with the Ludwig.
Preferred the Round badge Gretsch.
So much better , unmuffled.
Round badge.
Do you ever wonder what happens to all the drums in a large collection, when the owner passes on…🤔
What I don't sell before the end will be donated to schools and other individuals.
It's all planned out.
@
Great idea.
Serial # tell you exact yr.
If the tag falls off or disintegrates over time the serial # is lost. An unfortunate decision by Gretsch not to etch the serial # onto the badge as other manufacturers would do at the time.