Kitri Act 3 Variation: THEN vs. NOW | Ballet Analysis 🧐 |
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- Опубликовано: 18 авг 2023
- WeLcOmE bAcK to another Ballet Nerd video! 👋 Today we're going on a time-traveling journey as we compare the iconic Kitri Act 3 variation performed today with it's beautiful historical references from the 1940s.
Ever wondered how ballet performances have evolved over the decades? We'll be taking you through the Kitri Act 3 variation as it was danced back in the day, and discuss the distinct artistic focuses that characterized that era's interpretation. Fast-forwarding to the present day, we'll showcase the same variation and point out the subtle choreographic tweaks that were made to support the evolution of ballet technique while honoring its rich history.
If you like the video, LIKE the video, and COMMENT in the box below. Make sure you SUBSCRIBE to our channel if you wanna join the Ballet Nerd Club and SHARE this video to spread the Ballet Nerd love!
Grace to you,
J&E
IN THIS VIDEO:
Kitri Act 3 Variation by Sulemith Messerer: • Sulamith Messerer and ...
Kitri Act 3 Variation by Evgenia Obratzova: • Евгения Образцова. Вар...
WATCH MORE:
Giselle Then and Now: • Giselle's Act 1 Variat...
#KitriAct3 #BalletComparison #DanceHistory #BalletEvolution #DanceTimeTravel #BalletIn1930s #ModernBallet #DanceVariation #BalletPerformance #BalletArtistry #DanceThroughTime #BalletMagic #DanceEnthusiasts #DanceCommunity #BalletLovers #DanceAppreciation #TimelessDance #BalletInsights #DanceAnalysis #DanceStyles #BalletLegacy #DanceEraComparison #ClassicBallet #ContemporaryDance #DanceCulture #BalletArt #BalletAppreciation #DanceConversation #BalletTodayAndThen #DanceJourney #ArtisticExpression #DanceAppreciation #BalletAdmiration #BalletTradition #DanceInnovation
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Sulamith Messerer achieved Prima status, at Bolshoi, in 1929, and kept it for 25 years. Moved to Japan in 61' and jumpstarted the modern Japanese ballet. Adopted Maya Plisetskaya, her niece, after Sulamith's sister Rachel was taken by the state police. Rachel survived and became a Russian movie star. Maya did well (understatement) under her aunt's tutelage and became world reknowned........one of the greatest. Ballet and drama appear to move as one. Great post ladies.
Thank you for this!! Great insight into the “Royal” family in ballet. Glad you enjoyed the video! ✨👍🏻
Thankyou for all the info! I’ve always been a Plisetskaya fan. My first ballet performance was the film of her in Swan Lake. ❤
I think because of the speed of the music in the past, which if you look at most music scores is the correct tempo as set by the composer, they actually danced more. Today's dancers do a lot more poses and positions. Both are valid. Though I think the faster tempi does add a certain excitement and daring that is sometimes missing at the expense of higher legs and while very pretty, held poses.
I firmly believe that today's dancers could do both. They certainly have the technique; they just have to be willing to get out of a comfort zone the slower speed allows.
Absolutely, SO well said 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
I think for me the sweet spot would be a speed somewhere in between the very fast speeds of this clip and the slower speeds common today. The first clip was so fast that at times it really looked quite 'scrappy',the chenes for example, and she often lost her toe point because of the speed. I think quicker adds excitement but this for me was so fast that it lost a lot of polish. It was exciting to watch but the loss of technique and form ruined it for me. The essence of perfection that comes from a persistently present high level of form and technique is part of why lots of people love ballet, when it's absent some of the ethereal feeling is lost. For me that ethereal feeling comes in large part from the perfect technique, and is what gives ballet that 'special something' over many other forms of dance.
Would you consider doing a video about the different ballet character types? I've heard you mention like a royal character, fairy, etc. It would be interesting to know the different types and what movements/qualities/steps are associated with each. I really enjoy your videos, I only did ballet as a kid, but I find it so beautiful to watch! :)
Absolutely!! Thanks for your suggestion and for enjoying our videos 👍🏻✨☺️
Maybe that's why they danced so fast. Their shoes (and feet) couldn't stand staying on pointe longer than that. PS. I think that it's the speed and the piano music that it's giving the video a super old timey feel, even more than the black and white recording.
A good theory regarding pointe shoes! And yeah the whole thing was giving vintage, but in a cute way ✨☺️
I do feel that older film is actually at a faster speed than was actually performed at. Look at old movie footage which appears to be really fast and not the way people really moved
I think Osipova when she was at the Bolshoi is one of the few that gets close to the speed of the old Kitris in this variation
She’s def very close! We bet one of the NYCB ballerinas could do it 🤭
Can you imagine Tiler Peck? !!! @@balletreign
Sulamith Messerer just owned that variation. Incredible! I wish you had included Ekaterina Maximova (another amazing Bolshoi Prima Ballerina famous for her fouettés and one of the greatest Kitris of all times!). I LOVED that you called Evgenia Obraztsova Cupid (she OWNS that title, nobody compares to her in that role). Obraztsova is truly THE Maximova of our generation!
Yes Ekaterina Maximova !! Amazing dancer that I don’t hear being mentioned often, best Kitri out there for me hands down tempo-technique wise
And the fouettés without hands 😮 who else could do that except for nina ananiashvili (who had the same teacher back at bolshoi in the 80s/90s !)
See Nina Kaptsova’s Cupid. You might change your mind.
@@raymonda5476 oh I’ve seen it. She’s an amazing ballerina 🩰 but imho doesn’t even come close to Evgenia. I do love Nina in Golden Age though.
Shulamith Messerer is the aunt of Maya Plisetskaya, the star of the Soviet ballet.
The ballet world a small world! 🩰🌎. Thanks for sharing that ✨💕
I just watched Plisetskaya's version from 1959. Still speedy but you can see some of the pose holding beginning to develop. Its a nice combination of the two.
It is true that technique has evolved with great extensions and the holding of shapes etc But sometimes in the modern era the focus on technique can take away a little from the characterisation and emotion. Maurice Bejart said he could find a corps member who had better technique than the ballerina but that they would never be a ballerina.
Very good point there! It’s definitely a tricky balance to find but that’s what defines the ballerina 👍🏻✨✨
Julie Cronshaw has a video, 'Ballet's Secret Code', that's all about what you're saying. It's about the Cecchetti method. I'm not a dancer so it's all new to me, but so interesting.
I feel that the dancer was not speeding through the piece but older film footage and sound makes people look like they are moving very much faster than they actually were. If the speed was slowed down even by a quarter a more accurate guage of the real performance would be noted
Thanks for sharing that! ✨👍🏻
I did exactly that just now, ran the video at .75x and that feels MUCH more accurate and appropriate if a tempo for the piano and the dancing. .5x is too slow, but .75x is definitely the sweet spot.
It just unfortunately makes the parts with you lovely ladies talking sound a bit… 🍻🍸🤪 🤣
thank god - i was looking for this comment. the amount of people in the comments who don't realise this is shocking. same with j and e as much as i like them.
THANK YOU for giving Evgenia Victorovna Obraztsova her props😀! Of all the Kitris you could have chosen, I'm ecstatic that you chose her to compare with Sulamith Messerer. Genya is indeed an "iconic, legendary ballerina." The Messerers are a great ballet and theatre family. Sulamith's son is Mikhail Messerer, Bolshoi trained and bred and an outstanding pedagogue. He has been a guest teacher of companies all over the world. His cousin was Maya Plisetskaya and his Aunt was Rachel Messerer, Soviet movie star. He had another Aunt who was a noted Moscow theatre actress, Elizaveta Messerer, and the oldest, his Uncle Azary Messerer was a leading actor of Moscow's Second Studio theatre ensemble. His Uncle was Sulamith's big brother Asaf Messerer - one of the Bolshoi Ballet's legendary premier danseurs and ballet masters. Sulamith started out in sports and her brother Asaf encouraged her to take up ballet and to give up swimming (she was a champion swimmer). They were a brother and sister partnership at the Bolshoi. The other great connection for your clip is that Obraztsova's mother was a soloist in the Mikhailovsky Ballet during Soviet era in the late 70s and early 80s when that company was known as the Maly Theatre Ballet, and then the Mussorgksy Theatre Ballet. Her mother's teacher was Natalia Dudinskaya.
I think Ms Messerer’s wacky (to us) chaînés in demi pointe might be an old pre- Vaganova thing. Someone may have already mentioned it but in Ratmansky’s reconstruction of Petipa’s original Sleeping Beauty for ABT ALL the gals from Aurora on down do the demi-chaînés. It’s weird, but I guess historically accurate.
Also from checking out those old videos it never seems like turn-out was a thing.
Love your videos! Keep up the good work. !!!
Very interesting indeed. Little turn-out, feet not always pointed, a lot of bent knees-all things that look odd to us today. I would loooove to go back in time even further (late 1800s) and see how all the big ballets were performed.
@@valerina01 Right!?!, I wonder if it has to do with the inconsistency of training and training methods. It was right after the revolution which added to the chaos . It seems that Ms Messerer completed her training under Elizabeth Gerdt, even before Vaganova began to teach. (Gerdt also trained Plisetskya) So the style of the day may have just been, "No turnout? no problem. Bent knees? Floppy feet? No problem. Just give it all you got Girl, but make it FAST and DRAMATIC!!!" And God bless them that during that time they were even able to get on the stage in one piece!
This is so similar to the trends in early figure skating and dance forms like highland dancing which has many similarities to ballet. In vintage videos of both, the music is much faster than today’s. Todays highland dancers jump higher, hold extensions longer, and you just can’t do that with the faster tempos.
@@kathleenhearty5364 Wow, interesting. So tempos seemed to slow as movements became more elegant and precise, and jumps higher.
Yeah the Demi-chaines were the thing back then 😁. Glad u enjoy our channel! ✨
One request if possible. Commenting either the PDD (and such) of one of three, I would call them, adult ballets. All modern. They are: "Winter Tales" (based on the Shakespeare's play); "Mayerling" and my favorite: "Manon". This is the only one I've watched complete: the most operatic and tragic ballet I've ever watched. You'd never, ever see a girl under 15, even older, dancing that; a teenager, perhaps the first act PDD. Choreographed by Sir Kenneth McMillan.
The PDD and the preceding male solo are hauntingly beautiful. Add the adagio at Manon's bedroom. From there onwards is fully tragic, and yet, the last presentation of etoile Aurelie Dupont, partnered by Roberto Bolle was exactly this ballet, "Manon".
Beware, the ending is profoundly heartbreaking (it can even be commented by itself) in a way "Giselle" will never, ever, be. And girls, you, will, cry. I, a 66 yo. male did that.
Thanks for another instructive and interesting video! (I seem to be saying that just about every time you ladies post something 😀) The Messerer family was a Jewish family prominent in the arts - Sulamith's brother Asaf was a well-known choreographer, and her sister, as others have said, was the mother of Maya Plisetskaya. Sulamith was one of the founders of the tradition of classical ballet in Japan. According to her obituary, she was the first Russian to be awarded an OBE in the British honours system. Lovely to see these older clips when they weren't dancing in slow motion like they do now! although the modern version isn't quite so full of static poses as some other variations these days.
Thanks for the insights on Messerer! We were def wowed by her speed, knowing how hard it is to move that fast. Thanks for watching ✨👍🏻☺️
I LOVE you guys! you inspire me to dance even when i feel discouraged. i am so happy to have seen your channel grow. i was there when you had only 2K followers and now you’re here with almost 7K! so proud!
AWWW *sniffle* 🥹🥹 thank u sm!! Thanks for being one of the ogs and for supporting our channel all the way up to this point. Y’all are the best, we love u!! 💕✨☺️☺️
We need to take into account that in those days the recordings were not what they are now. Think about the movies of the 20’. The movements were jumpy and looked like everyone was running. So perhaps the speed was not as high as it looks.
Shulamith (an Israeli name) Messerer, must have been the sister of Asaf Messerer, husband of Plisetskaya, choreographer of the Soviet Bolshoi.
Yup, a brilliant brother-sister partnership 👍🏻✨
PS - I meant PARTNER, not husband of Maya P.lisetskaya. He was a dancer, choreographer and teacher at the Soviet Bolshoi.
So glad you did this. Once saw the great Nina Ananiashvili perform in person. I got to meet her the next year as the previous year I helped save the tour lol. Bolshoi tour folk had different dates booked than what the LA theater posted! I alerted her web manager :D Got all kinds of juicy ballet gossip from him for awhile. So he asked her husband and another fan to take us backstage after a performance with ABC (Swan Lake).
No waaayy that’s so cool that u got to see her in person! Thanks for sharing your experience ☺️👍🏻✨
Your channel is a source of learning and joy. Thank you.
We’re happy to have you! So good to know we are making ballet accessible and enjoyable to all 💗💗 Thank you so much for kind words and support of this channel ❤️
These videos you’re making are so interesting!! I feel like despite the years of study that I’ve already dedicated to intimately learning ballet, I’m still learning so many things, and so many more of those thing through your videos than anywhere else in the past several months! Thank you, for probably the millionth time, for sharing!
Aww this is so sweet! Thank you!! No one can ever know it all, but we’re happy to share what we have with other Ballet Nerds like you 💕☺️
Wow, Shulamith was ALL over the place. Completely fits the character. Back in the day it was less about technical perfection and more about performing your heart out, i guess.
Maybe I just don't get it, but the old version is... a pain to look at? Uncontrolled, crooked and weird?
Definitely, compared to todays standards. But at the time that was probably considered clean and polished! Ballet evolved so quickly 🤭
I tend to agree. I'm not trying to be disrespectful to the dancer, but it just looks so sloppy and amateur to me. I loved the modern version, though! It is crazy how the standards have changed over the years.
Brava, Ladies of the Barre! it is always a great pleasure to asee your smiling faces and hear the eloquent introductory remarks. Looking forward to this trip down Memory Lane, with a speedy Don Q.
Thank you, thank you! 🤭🤭
The music in the older version was a bit higher pitched. Are we sure it wasn't sped up at all? I know that there was such an emphasis on speed at that time, but also orchestras/instrument's were also often tuned a bit lower than they are today.... Impressive either way. I do definitely prefer today's aesthetic and focus on long lines, but dancing back then looks like fun (even if the toe pain really wasn't fun).
Possible New Video....? Julie Cronshaw has a video called 'Ballet's Secret Code' It's all about the Cecchetti method as compared to dance today. It focuses on technique, the basis for technique and how it's accomplished, the effects on dancer's body. You're probably familiar with it, and I'd love to hear your take on it.
That’s a great idea, thanks!!
so happy to be here early! ❤ loving the video so far (im commenting as i'm watching). I love how you guys really break the art of ballet as well as its artistry & technicalities in each of your video! from one ballet dancer to another, thank you so much for creating your channel! 🎀🤍💌
Happy you’re here!! 😄😄. Your comment made our day, thank you so much for this, and so glad you enjoyed! 💕👍🏻
Would love to see you react to Ms. Fonteyn!
u make me happy when u post 🦋
Awww 🥰🥰🥰
Years ago, there was a video here on RUclips of the debut of Maya Plisetskaya in Swan Lake, performing the Black Swan pas de deux. Must have been the late '40's maybe? So interesting!
I am old enough to remember seeing Maya Plisetskaya in person….memorable.
Wow, fortunate you. ❤
So lucky!! 🤭💕✨
thank you, i'm learning sooo much!👏👏👏
We love hearing that! ☺️. Thank you so much for watching!
Loved this! Your observations were truly on point. Thanks!
Thank you!! ☺️✨
You guys never disappoint!
🥹🥹 thank u!!
Messerer was using folk character moves with her upper body. Very Russian.
Yesssss 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
Great video once more, you made me very emotional, showing lady Messerer I had the honor to take her bellen classes back in the 80s. She was a great teacher. I learned a lot from her corrections. She was very famous in her time to be strong with a good technique. I enjoyed her classes very very much I even went to London a couple of time because of her. While I was working in Verona Italy my company engaged her as ballet master for the summer festival so we were very lucky to have her teaching the morning class great memories. Thank you girls love love love your videos big kiss ❤❤❤❤❤
What an amazing privilege!! Thanks for sharing your experience ✨💕
Perhaps it is the film frame speed that makes her look like she’s dancing so quickly. Try slowing it down via the small gear in the upper corner.
Loved this!! So cool to hear your perspectives on it. Hahaha though I would so love to see modern dancers have a go with the older chorey, it looks frantic but so much fun 🤩
We’d love to see that too! Would be so fun 😆😆
Love Love those historical comparison!!! Would love to see more of these! I’ve heard that someone figured out the original opening night choreography for Right of Spring? Is that true? Would love to see a comparison there! ❤
Can we have a moment of appreciation for Евге́ния perfect attitude line?
🙌🏻🙌🏻🙌🏻
Thank you for this analysis/comparison it is so helpful and gives me some ideas for choreo ❤😂
So glad u found this helpful. Best of luck on your choreo projects… would love to hear more about them 😉😉
@@balletreignI am thinking of blending the two styles while playing with different speeds in the music, like a remix lolz
I see a lot of your fans know about Sulamith Messerer. I'm impressed. But the story is even more interesting when you know that Maya Plisetskaya's father was executed by firing squad in Stalin's "Great Purge" and her mother was sent to a concentration camp when Maya was 13. She was being sent to an orphanage when Sulamith rescued her. It took guts to take her in under the circumstances. Maya's fame was achieved in spite of the fact that she was the daughter of a "traitor" and was under a travel ban for the first 15 years of her career. ruclips.net/video/BuZIETpP6Ig/видео.html
PS-Plisetskaya is considered by many to be the greatest Russian ballerina of the 20th century, but the Messerer family is also famous in their own right
PPS-She's 43 in this video. I would have loved to see Maya play Kitri in her prime
Thanks for sharing this!! Such great insights 👍🏻👍🏻
Most likely the speed comes from the film being shot in the old old standard of 16 frames per second, and it being replayed with a speed of 24 frames pro second as we do today. The music has been dubbed later. Tecnically very impressive, but it is not beautyful.
Thanks for your thoughts and insights!
Exactly my thought, old videos usually need to be speed adjusted. It's easier to see the speed difference in "normal" film where people are walking around and moving in normal ways, I think a lot of people forget that the same speed issue applies to "abnormal" videos where people are dancing, running, etc.
Absolutely agree about your thought on the film footage being what makes the performance appear at speed. And it was NOT what the real performance was truely like. Just look at older home footage. People appeared to be moving and walking faster than theynreally were. As an older person we have old family film footage that does do this to any one being filmed.
I keep hoping that the Glamourdaze channel will do a restoration of a ballet video, that would be so fun to compare! Glamourdaze's speed correcting, motion smoothing, and colorizing are the best I've seen, they really bring old film to life. 😊
Y’alls ideas for videos are so creative. I watch every video even though I have never been in dance. Return of chainsaw neighbor!!! ❤😂🎉
He’s back with a vengeance 🪚🔥😂
I think that we sould not be sure at 100% that the clip is played at the same speed it was taken. Could be a little bit accelerated in the passage beetween film and digital or from different film projections. Just a suggestion.
For some reason the first one feels less extended? Ngl, I wasn't the biggest fan. I really liked the new one though, and need to watch the full ballet at some point.
A good observation! 👍🏻 def less extended and more static in comparison to todays ballet ✨
I'm surprised to see, though, that Messerer seems to finish early. She doesn't stop when the music stops. Isn't that odd?
I suspect the old movie clips are sped up, it can often been seen on videos where people are just walking or gesticulating. Often when i find old silent movie clips i turn down the speed a notch to watch them.
I actually tend to dislike Kitri wedding variation simply because the music is SO slow (and often the echappe/passe section is slowed down even more, ends up sounding like circus music), however I think plenty of dancers pull of the slowness by showcasing their control and technique. I personally just prefer snappiness matching the music. I think I saw an older video of Maya plisetkaya that was speedy yet very modern in terms of the movement. The older video you watched looks a lot like folk dancing footwork to me.
Totally agree! We prefer versions that don’t slow down in the middle. Thanks for sharing your thoughts! ✨👍🏻☺️
I think Tyler Peck can pull off that snappiness today. She’s astonishingly nimble and fleet.
For sure!!
Great post. When you look at Margot Fonteyn's Aurora you also see astonishing speed and stopping on a dime in her pirouettes. I'm a big believer in dancing at the speed the music is meant to be heard on its own (hey, I'm a Balanchine addict) so for me Evgenia is a bit too slow--she milks the poses too much for my taste. A wonderful ballerina all the same. I prefer the slightly faster tempo Osipova takes--she keeps moving through the steps. We're so lucky with RUclips to see innumerable wonderful dancers.
you know when you watch wartime footage and it's all fast? yeah thats why the 'then' video looks 'fast'.
I have recently stumbled upon you 2 and your videos: you are adorable. Content wise, I enjoy the videos although I am not a dancer, but I also enjoyed watching you bake a cake. I think a lot of it is because you emanate joy, you agree with each other rather than disagreeing and arguing, and you seem to always be smiling. Can I please just mention 1 tiny thing: You both (although more-so Eden) have an unconscious tic of playing with your hair, or just swiping down the side of your hair that is brushed in front. I find it very distracting, so if perhaps you could focus on trying to stop…? I hate to criticize at all, I really do enjoy you very much!! Thank you for content with interesting things to learn, but also content that is happy!! ❤
I don't like the way this particular variation has morphed into the modern era. In order to get higher extensions the slower movement wrecks the drama of the music. I'm looking forward to some brave ballerina reinterpreting the variation to reincorporate the drama of the older style.
Twoset violin but make it ballet... How did I find this channel so late?
That’s such a huge compliment. Thank u, and welcome to the Ballet Nerd Club!! 😁😁✨
kinda wanna see a modern ballerina dance it the Messerer way now and comment on how easy/hard it is
We’re sure someone’s done it! ✨✨
Pls correct the link the Messerer video. It's the PDD from Don Quixote right now.
Was hoping to see someone in the comments give the correct pronunciation but I would just go with mess-seh-rehr (all short e) in a pinch. Checking Forvo now
The second half of the video linked in the description is her solo. The timestamp is about 0:50.
ahh, thanks@@gretslie. i just went by the video title
@@oxoelfoxo No problem, happy to help!
Sulamith. Teached both Makarova and Nureyev. How about THAT.
*mic drop* ✨✨
I really don’t like Messerer in this variation. Especially not her legs and feet. 😳
Certainly very different from todays dancers! But she’s one of those who paved the way 👍🏻👍🏻