I love these videos! I never thought I could sit through watching a fitting that's as long as a movie. But the info is just the right amount of nerdy, and it's great to watch the relationship between fitter and player develop. Simon's knowledge seems to quickly win over any skepticism.
Re the preference for keeping heavier shafts in the wedges, have done the same thing. Kept my Royal Precision Rifle Lite 120 gram stiff shafts in the 52,56 and 60 degree wedges, while putting the 87.5 gram stiff Nippon Zelos 8 shafts in the PW through 4 iron. Like Richard, I also stuck with the same heads, so now have both the new and the previous sets of the same forged Chicago Classic blades. Since my pro who built the clubs still has boxes of these blades in the back of his shop it was by far the least expensive way to go, and I love these heads, as "buttery" as any Mizuno. Actually don't really use the 3 or 4 iron any more, have added a 24 degree 9 wood and 21 degree 7 wood instead. Could have gone to hybrids/utility clubs, but felt that for me the higher dynamic loft created by fairway woods versus stated static loft would help me get the ball up off the tee, the fairway and the rough.
Nice fittimg. I also liked the feel of my Apex '14 until I went another direction last year(the shaft was a poor fit), so I surely get why Richard has hung on to them. Interesting listening to the wedge process as well - confirmed some assumptions I was having regarding my own wedges.
Good head design doesn’t become obsolete just because new models come out! Glad to help re wedges. Thanks for all your input and support, greatly appreciated
Have you considered GC Quad to get more accurate club face data? There must be a big difference between someone finding the centre compared to someone hitting it all over the face especially if they’re looking for blades or low forgiveness players clubs?
Was that a KBS Tour Lite 95 gram regular flex shaft with the T150? Based on my own testing with a launch monitor, it seems that another good combo for him might be the new 2023 TM TP790 with Dynamic Gold 95 shaft weight 96 grams in R flex. I play forged blades but really liked both the T150 with a Nippon NS Pro 950GH 94.5 gram R flex shaft, and the TP790 with the DG95 96 gram R flex shaft. Not surprisingly, I got 10 extra yards carry with the 30.5 degree loft TP790 7 iron vs my 34 degree loft 7 iron with 87.5 gram Nippon NS Pro Zelos 8 shaft in stiff flex. However, I was surprised to see that the TP790 got a bit more height and a slightly steeper descent angle despite the stronger loft. So that was a good combination. If looking for new clubs I might go for the P790 with DG95 R, but don't have the $1,400 plus tax.
The DG 95 is very tip balanced so would not be a good option for him but the base weight matches. Correct that it is the KBS Tour lite R flex shaft. The new P790 heads were not available when Richard came for the fitting as they were not quite launched yet.
I was interested to learn about the peaking with the Grind on the Vokey M. Does the same apply with the Vokey T Grind ? If so, I take the Mizuno X Grind and Cleveland Low plus don’t suffer from the same issue ? Thanks
That’s correct. Our turf here is tighter so we do not generally need as much bounce as in the US which is where the majority of wedge grinds are designed to optimise (50% of global equipment sales are there) so it means to get them sitting a little tighter we just blend in the ridge. The T22 X grind is great but is now changing with the T24 to a little more back half relief so we will see what that is like and the Cleveland Low+ is only on the 54 and 56 degrees so generally we always need to do a grind.
If he ever wants to try a slightly lighter shaft that is still steel, not graphite, but is made to feel close to graphite, try the Nippon NS Pro Zelos 8 stiff flex 87.5 gram. They used a special new steel material to overcome the problem you note of thinner and thinner walls
Got it, understand. Was only suggesting the Zelos steel shafts for if and when someone who has been using standard steel shafts begins to think about changing to graphite, as Richard was asking you. Nippon said the Zelos shafts were made precisely for someone who wants the smooth feel of graphite but would still prefer to stick with steel. I see now that you ended up (around minute 1:18) recommending a change from his current shafts, which I believe you said at your initial examination were 130 grams, about as heavy as they get, to the KBS Tour Lite stiff, which is 100 grams in taper. Keeping his present Apex heads with a possibility of looking at updated ones when they come out next year. Is that correct? Like I said below, what a remarkably transparent, honest, trustworthy and reliable fitting. @@Precision_Golf
After listening at minute 1:01 and watching the T200, I'm hoping and hoping you will try the P790. It is more forgiving on off center hits, particularly the toe, than almost any of the new clubs, Titleist or Mizuno. And it will give him the extra few yards plus height without too much spin.
Great knowledge Simon. I had a mizuno fit early 2020. Fitted into jpx919 tour but they gave me forged 4 and 5 irons. Kbs c taper lite stiff. I have struggled ever since with the 4 and 5 irons for consistency. Always been decent with my longer irons but 3 years on still not happy over the ball. Any thoughts.
The combo set is not necessarily a bad option and the JPX 919 Forged are not generally known to be poor performers. Without knowing what you had before or any info on the set up my best guess is that the C Taper Lite shafts (which are quite a tip heavy shaft) are the issue as the balance is going to have the strongest effect in the long irons where you put the most acceleration in. If the tip balance does not suit it is in the longest clubs that it will exaggerate any miss tendencies.
True, Richard is a very good player but even high handicappers have more repeating swings than they think so that must not be seen as a deterrent to getting fitted.
1:12:16 Don't understand the 'it's a stronger loft' issue. Ultimately it's a club with a number on the bottom that goes x far. If it goes too far, use a higher numbered club. He might only have needed a 7 instead of a 6. If 140 was the distance used in this particular fit, the paradym club that went 140 should have been used in comparison. So a 7 might have given the same or better numbers as the chosen club.
The problem with that is that it then creates large gaps at the bottom of the set. There is an argument to just go 6-P&GW instead of 5-P but if the Paradym heads spin less then this will always be a tendency
@@Precision_Golf It wouldn't create big gaps as with respect to your customer if he needs 6i to cover 140 then there isn't a lot of distance to fill with all those clubs. I'd have thought this player was exactly the type that the player's distance category was created for.
Can you please give me some advice? I have a set of Game Improvement clubs which were fitted a year ago, one of which clubs broke a few months ago and the manufacturer has agreed to fit me for new clubs. I have subsequently bought a second hand set of Mizuno blades (not fitted) to practice with, and have been using these to play with for a couple of months. Whch set would you expect the fitter to measure as a baseline, the GI's or the blades?
Didn't he get his longest carry with his first shot with his current Apex clubs? What about keeping those, since he really likes them, and just changing the shafts?
Got it, thanks. You are the absolute antithesis of the upsell oriented fitting studios I often hear players complain about, including one of my neighbors. You are honest and totally thorough, and clearly operate on the old principle of, if something ain't broke, don't fix it. Five star rating for you. @@Precision_Golf
Slightly less forgiving and with the confidence from the existing model Apex there it meant not enough difference to make him veer away from the Callaway heads
I love these videos! I never thought I could sit through watching a fitting that's as long as a movie. But the info is just the right amount of nerdy, and it's great to watch the relationship between fitter and player develop. Simon's knowledge seems to quickly win over any skepticism.
Thanks Jacob. Really appreciate your comments. We did look at trying to condense these, but they lost the feel of the long format fittings.
DFV Black.....A predecessor of the DG X7.... Thanks for bringing back memories of the mighty Dave Vinson!
I remember my hands stinging in winter when I topped one with that stick!
The X7 or the DFV black, or both 🤣... I was a keeper, never had that problem 😅@@Precision_Golf
Re the preference for keeping heavier shafts in the wedges, have done the same thing. Kept my Royal Precision Rifle Lite 120 gram stiff shafts in the 52,56 and 60 degree wedges, while putting the 87.5 gram stiff Nippon Zelos 8 shafts in the PW through 4 iron. Like Richard, I also stuck with the same heads, so now have both the new and the previous sets of the same forged Chicago Classic blades. Since my pro who built the clubs still has boxes of these blades in the back of his shop it was by far the least expensive way to go, and I love these heads, as "buttery" as any Mizuno. Actually don't really use the 3 or 4 iron any more, have added a 24 degree 9 wood and 21 degree 7 wood instead. Could have gone to hybrids/utility clubs, but felt that for me the higher dynamic loft created by fairway woods versus stated static loft would help me get the ball up off the tee, the fairway and the rough.
Sounds like you have a good set up there!
Really enjoying these fitting videos. Thanks for making them
Thank you for watching them!
Glad to see you get some new bats Rich. 🎉
Want to see Simon try to improve that laser beam driver of yours!
Sounds like that might be a tough assignment!
Another great fitting video. Would really like to see a mid-handicap fitting with a more traditional swing in the 80mph range.. thanks.
Thank you. We are prioritising these fittings for our upcoming recordings.
Nice fittimg. I also liked the feel of my Apex '14 until I went another direction last year(the shaft was a poor fit), so I surely get why Richard has hung on to them. Interesting listening to the wedge process as well - confirmed some assumptions I was having regarding my own wedges.
Good head design doesn’t become obsolete just because new models come out! Glad to help re wedges. Thanks for all your input and support, greatly appreciated
Have you considered GC Quad to get more accurate club face data? There must be a big difference between someone finding the centre compared to someone hitting it all over the face especially if they’re looking for blades or low forgiveness players clubs?
Was that a KBS Tour Lite 95 gram regular flex shaft with the T150? Based on my own testing with a launch monitor, it seems that another good combo for him might be the new 2023 TM TP790 with Dynamic Gold 95 shaft weight 96 grams in R flex. I play forged blades but really liked both the T150 with a Nippon NS Pro 950GH 94.5 gram R flex shaft, and the TP790 with the DG95 96 gram R flex shaft. Not surprisingly, I got 10 extra yards carry with the 30.5 degree loft TP790 7 iron vs my 34 degree loft 7 iron with 87.5 gram Nippon NS Pro Zelos 8 shaft in stiff flex. However, I was surprised to see that the TP790 got a bit more height and a slightly steeper descent angle despite the stronger loft. So that was a good combination. If looking for new clubs I might go for the P790 with DG95 R, but don't have the $1,400 plus tax.
The DG 95 is very tip balanced so would not be a good option for him but the base weight matches. Correct that it is the KBS Tour lite R flex shaft.
The new P790 heads were not available when Richard came for the fitting as they were not quite launched yet.
Got it, thanks
👍
I was interested to learn about the peaking with the Grind on the Vokey M. Does the same apply with the Vokey T Grind ? If so, I take the Mizuno X Grind and Cleveland Low plus don’t suffer from the same issue ? Thanks
That’s correct. Our turf here is tighter so we do not generally need as much bounce as in the US which is where the majority of wedge grinds are designed to optimise (50% of global equipment sales are there) so it means to get them sitting a little tighter we just blend in the ridge. The T22 X grind is great but is now changing with the T24 to a little more back half relief so we will see what that is like and the Cleveland Low+ is only on the 54 and 56 degrees so generally we always need to do a grind.
If he ever wants to try a slightly lighter shaft that is still steel, not graphite, but is made to feel close to graphite, try the Nippon NS Pro Zelos 8 stiff flex 87.5 gram. They used a special new steel material to overcome the problem you note of thinner and thinner walls
The lighter shafts did not work for him so not somewhere we could go and see results
Got it, understand. Was only suggesting the Zelos steel shafts for if and when someone who has been using standard steel shafts begins to think about changing to graphite, as Richard was asking you. Nippon said the Zelos shafts were made precisely for someone who wants the smooth feel of graphite but would still prefer to stick with steel.
I see now that you ended up (around minute 1:18) recommending a change from his current shafts, which I believe you said at your initial examination were 130 grams, about as heavy as they get, to the KBS Tour Lite stiff, which is 100 grams in taper. Keeping his present Apex heads with a possibility of looking at updated ones when they come out next year. Is that correct? Like I said below, what a remarkably transparent, honest, trustworthy and reliable fitting. @@Precision_Golf
Yes - the Zelos are a bridging point from graphite to steel. It was a pretty large change in weight! Appreciate the continued support!
After listening at minute 1:01 and watching the T200, I'm hoping and hoping you will try the P790. It is more forgiving on off center hits, particularly the toe, than almost any of the new clubs, Titleist or Mizuno. And it will give him the extra few yards plus height without too much spin.
The new P790 was not available but the larger head of the Apex was something he preferred. He wanted new heads rather than reshafting his current ones
Got it, thanks. Would you have had him try the new P790 just to see the results if it was available?@@Precision_Golf
The narrower sole heads tended not to work as well but it would certainly have been in the mix
Great knowledge Simon. I had a mizuno fit early 2020. Fitted into jpx919 tour but they gave me forged 4 and 5 irons. Kbs c taper lite stiff. I have struggled ever since with the 4 and 5 irons for consistency. Always been decent with my longer irons but 3 years on still not happy over the ball. Any thoughts.
The combo set is not necessarily a bad option and the JPX 919 Forged are not generally known to be poor performers. Without knowing what you had before or any info on the set up my best guess is that the C Taper Lite shafts (which are quite a tip heavy shaft) are the issue as the balance is going to have the strongest effect in the long irons where you put the most acceleration in. If the tip balance does not suit it is in the longest clubs that it will exaggerate any miss tendencies.
I tried the same head with dynamic gold 105 stiff and they felt a lot easier. Does that make any sense?
Might be the shafts but might also be you. Have you had any lessons to see if your swing has changed over time?
He’s got a repetive swing which is always a good start point for a fitting.
True, Richard is a very good player but even high handicappers have more repeating swings than they think so that must not be seen as a deterrent to getting fitted.
1:12:16 Don't understand the 'it's a stronger loft' issue. Ultimately it's a club with a number on the bottom that goes x far. If it goes too far, use a higher numbered club. He might only have needed a 7 instead of a 6. If 140 was the distance used in this particular fit, the paradym club that went 140 should have been used in comparison. So a 7 might have given the same or better numbers as the chosen club.
The problem with that is that it then creates large gaps at the bottom of the set. There is an argument to just go 6-P&GW instead of 5-P but if the Paradym heads spin less then this will always be a tendency
@@Precision_Golf It wouldn't create big gaps as with respect to your customer if he needs 6i to cover 140 then there isn't a lot of distance to fill with all those clubs. I'd have thought this player was exactly the type that the player's distance category was created for.
Can you please give me some advice? I have a set of Game Improvement clubs which were fitted a year ago, one of which clubs broke a few months ago and the manufacturer has agreed to fit me for new clubs. I have subsequently bought a second hand set of Mizuno blades (not fitted) to practice with, and have been using these to play with for a couple of months. Whch set would you expect the fitter to measure as a baseline, the GI's or the blades?
Definitely the GI as those are the ones to beat 👍🏻
Didn't he get his longest carry with his first shot with his current Apex clubs? What about keeping those, since he really likes them, and just changing the shafts?
Sorry - meant to answer this question separately but I answered in the last reply
Got it, thanks. You are the absolute antithesis of the upsell oriented fitting studios I often hear players complain about, including one of my neighbors. You are honest and totally thorough, and clearly operate on the old principle of, if something ain't broke, don't fix it. Five star rating for you. @@Precision_Golf
Very kind - Simon is definitely old school in that respect!
Can you please explain the difference between the KBs tour lites used in the fitting and the $ taper lites.
The $ taper lites are designed around a lower flight and spin, the Tour kites are s more responsive tip design so a slightly softer feel as well
Is the KS 9 a Shimada shaft, 95 grams in either R or S?
This is a Shimada shaft and we tested the S flex
How about ZX7 mk2?
Slightly less forgiving and with the confidence from the existing model Apex there it meant not enough difference to make him veer away from the Callaway heads