about Chopin: "In one letter to a male school friend, he wrote: “You don’t like being kissed. Please allow me to do so today. You have to pay for the dirty dream I had about you last night.” There are 22 letters on record from Chopin to the same friend, Tytus Woyciechowski, and he often began them with “my dearest life”, and signed off: “Give me a kiss, dearest lover.” But the English-Canadian biographer Alan Walker insisted in his 2018 book Fryderyk Chopin: A Life and Times that the homoerotic love letters penned by Chopin were the result of “psychological confusion”, and added that Woyciechowski was a “bosom friend”. Chopin bisexual icon
Yea, we were talking about non-hetero stuff once when studing (writting studies, one hour of lecture was for non-hetoro literature) and we are from Poland - country from a very polish-sounding-named Chopin was too, and like... Chopin was told to be one of people to have "same-sex romantic friendship" (romantic because of era "romantism", but like... do they hear themselfs?). Like seriously how is that even a term? How did they came up with this term? "And they had same-sex romantic friendship. Utterly platonic of course"
i still remember when we were doing the illiad in my high school latin class and my teacher was like "achilles and patroclus were probably in love but historians don't really like that so you'll have to say they were comrades in the exam"
Omg i think my comment got deleted or something so I wanted to apologize dhshhs I got so upset because I didn't know he died yet so i started freaking out hdgsh
I remember we were reading a story in history class and we were reading about two woman who were “best friends”, my history teacher literally said “And we all know they were more of lovers but historians suck so that’s not going to happen” and honestly that was amazing
@@alexvarveri1176 well i did ask my Οδύσσεια teacher last yr abt it privately and he got a bit nervous but ultimately he told me it was possible, but isn’t sure djdndckcj
As a Bi-woman who has a passion for queer history, this song slams me in the chest. I want to blast this to the world. I love how cheerful the song sounds but at the same time, damn does it just hit me like a semi-truck.
Fun fact because why the heck not: Emily Dickenson, a well-known poet from the Victorian Era, was secretly in love with a woman. Don't believe me? Look it up, it's such an interesting story!
She was in love with Sue Gilbert. Sue loved her back they were my gay awakening. They made me feel like i belong Sue even married Emily's brother Austin so she would never be apart from Emily. If you like the too you should wach "dikinson" Hailie stinefeld is Emily and Ella Hunt is Sue. Awsome chemistry
Mary Shelley (got reminded bc it's whereabouts of the same time) was bi and so was her husband Percy Bysse Shelley and literally one of the reasons she wrote Frankenstein was because she got bored out of her skull when they ended up isolated in a beach house during a storm with a "family friend" and the friend's "friend", and her husband was too busy sleeping with said friend because he "didn't often get him to himself away from prying eyes" so she went "ok have fun I'll just be over here changing the history of literature for funsies" 😂😂😂😂😂 Btw the "friend" was Lord Byron lmaooo
Ahh what two good pals!! Nothing says best friends like killing one of the strongest Torjan soldiers aka Prince Hector knowing well that it we cause your death but you do it anyway out of vengeance for your very close pal that you shared a bed and a tent with for most of your life .. ahh that's what brotherhood is all about
my lord. I'm in love with this song. It sounds so good and is very true. Whenever I hear “and historians will call them” I immediately start to vibe. SUCHA GREAT SONG
@@go-cm4rz I think it's more to do with making academic statements. See, even if every sign points to two historic people being lovers, unless they actually called each other that, we can't say it with 100% certainty - so even if subjectively you think "duh, they were gay", it's not something you can present as an objective fact if you don't have any hard evidence for it. You could potentially suggest it as a _possibility_ at least, but even then, you'd have to word it carefully. Academic circles are very strict about subjective statements, and that's probably why a lot of people use more general, objective terms. Can you prove with 100% certainty that they were lovers? No, likely not. But can you prove that they lived together? Yes. Sigh, roommates it is... This isn't just the case for same sex couples, mind. In archaeology, we can always _speculate_ about the cultural aspects of a place or item, but presenting anything as a hard fact when you can't prove it is a slippery slope. Academics are very strict like that. :'D
"Some men would kiss other men because they thought women were useless" - My history teacher (male) talking about ancient cultures edit: oh WOW, people keep coming here. I've learned a lot in these 2 years, so here more info for you :) The act was called Sodomy! Occurred in Ancient Greece but also during medieval times (specially in Italy) with those crazy catholic churches. Sexual activity and lust were already unspeakable because of the church, but when men chose to do it, it was with their pals! There were even cults and reunions around it. The act was done in the dark. This was a known thing and considered illegal and aligned with heresy (when one is considered enemy of the church. It was the worst thing you could ever be). Despite guards literally being sent to stop that from happening, many of them did not ever return! Italy 1300s was PEAK (what we know as. don't apply modern terms to ancient concepts) misogyny and women were considered beyond inferior and their “womanhood” linked them to the devil, specially because of the lack of education surrounding menstruation. Now imagine committing the deed with a woman AND one who is bleeding right where it is sinful, how'd that affect the mind of a medieval man? At least men don't bleed, and the deed would be much, much cleaner.
That's cause this bullshit doesn't happen with straight relationships throughout history, never in my life have i seen anyone uniroically say a man and a woman were very close best friends. I'd say the opposite is more true, people tend to assume they were a couple with minimal evidence
during the WW II there were three Polish guys - Tadeusz Zawadzki - his nickname was Zośka, Jan Bytnar - nickname Rudy and Maciej Aleksy Dawidowski - nickname Alek. They were best friends. They were about 20 years old when they were fighting against the Nazis by for example recapturing the prisoners, taking off the Nazi flags or writing texts against them on the walls. But between two of them - Rudy and Zośka - there was a special relationship. Then the Nazis captured Rudy and tortured him to get the information about the organization he was in. He didn't say anything. The Nazis hurt him so badly that he was dying. Zośka visited him in the prison. Rudy was complaining about his pain, but in the same time he was saying how wonderful he was feeling. He said that they will travel to the countryside and live together while he would heal. Then he told Zośka to lie down next to him. He hugged his head and felt asleep. Yeah, historians call them best friends. Historians say that telling that they were in love is offending the memory about them. History hates lovers...
Ok even if they were actually "only friends" the sentence "historians say that telling that they were in love is offending their memory" is so funny to me. Oh yes the most insulting thing in the world, saying that someone might have not been straight
i just recently discovered this song accidentally on tiktok last week and i literally feel in love with it the moment i first heard it and i’ve been waiting for the full song to be released today !! i love it so much i will play this song 24/7 on repeat 😌
"I wish, my Dear Laurens, it might be in my power, by action rather than words, to convince you that I love you. I shall only tell you that ’till you bade us Adieu, I hardly knew the value you had taught my heart to set upon you". - Alexander Hamilton, to his best friend John Laurens.
Its actually confirmed that Alexander's son crossed out some parts of the letters between them before publishing them, wonder why. A posible secret romantic relationship is also touched upon in Alexander Hamilton's biography (the one that inspired the creation of the Brodway musical), and i don't know if this is historically accurate ( don't remember if i read it on the internet or on the biography) but i think someone close to Hamilton used to call Laffayette, Laurens and Hamilton somethig along the lines of "the gay trio"
This song, this just reminds me of two very different things. One. Historically, Alexander Hamilton and John Laurence. Alex LITERALLY said he didn't want to be married to a woman and wanted John. Like. wHAT? And then. Fuckin Gravity Falls. Thank god Alex Hirsch has made it very clear about Durland and Blubs. Because DAMN DISNEY. Disney is just like "They're just close" BRO THEY SAID THEY WERE IN LOVE
My gf and I joke about being ‘gal pals’ and ‘close friends’ because we find it funny, as when we are together we are obviously _together_. But I still call her ‘my friend’ when I’m talking to ppl I don’t really know. And every time it feels like I’m putting up a little shield to keep those people away, but in doing so I lose her in that version of me. It’s such a little thing, just four letter missing in front of the word ‘friend’. Dut in doing so, feels like a part of me and my life is missing. I don’t want to lose her in any version of me. I love her in all of them. Even if history would hate us. A sucky thing that an unfortunate number of queer people relate to.
“I don’t want to lose her in any version of me. I love her in all of them. Even if history would hate us.” Oh my god, that is the most beautiful thing I’ve heard in my life.
My dumbass was interpreting “those four words” to be best. Like best friends. And I was like “did you even hear the song??” Promptly realized the 4 letters are girl and I am stupid
I love that my teacher will straight up say that they were lovers instead of friends, it so nice to think that not every history teacher will cover it up
As a aspiring historian who's in school right now this song is my anthem. LGBT+ history is something I'd love to research and publish about because of the historians brought up in the song. We've evolved past the point where my peers need to keep things in the dark for any reason, and I'll be damned if I follow the path that these past historians traveled. There are so many historical perspectives and relationships that we know about that fit their agenda, but there are way too many that are just too obviously gay to be ignored. It's frustrating, but thankfully I'm not alone in trying to right the wrongs of ignorant historians. Fantastic work with the song!
“who’s gonna tell us the stories that our textbooks don’t?” me: /keeps including in queer history and queer and trans subtext in classic literature at every chance i get at A CHRISTIAN SCHOOL
"Too many hand written letters signed to my dearest with love." "To my dear Historia.... As I write this, Reiner is standing at my side. He knows that this is a love letter and yet he's still sneaking peeks. It's no wonder that creep's still single. That said, he did give me his word that he'd deliver this letter to you. He says he owes me for the time I doubled back to save him. I'm sorry about then... I never would have imagined choosing those two... Over you.... I'm going to die soon... But... I'll die without regrets. Or that's what I'd like to say. The truth is, I do have one. *It's that I never got to marry you....* With love... Ymir. "
I’m realizing how lucky i was with my highschool teachers, who (mostly) didn’t give two flying F*cks of historian’s hate of loving relationships, and just told us of most of the queer relationships, that they knew of. Of course they couldn’t get away with everything. I remember when my literature teacher taught us the biography of Giacomo Leopardi, one of the most esteemed and respected poets of Italian Literature, and when she told us how he lived the last part of his life with the writer Antonio Ranieri, who took care of him and was his emotional support at the very end of his sickness, she told us “just remember that there still is a hot debate among historians about what exactly the nature of their “Friendship” was”, and she paused and gave us that look, that look that says “You know what I mean…”
@@sirmodstan5489 I think "why don't they write this stuff in books" is the whole point xD I honestly think if Wilde hadn't gone out the way he did, they'd be talking about his "close friendship" with Bosie Douglas DaVinci literally doodled d*cks in his sketchbooks and little comments about his model/lover (the one who posed for Saint John The Baptist) as well as various of his apprentices and apparently whether or not he was into men is "up for debate", too
as someone who is deeply invested in history i love this, i can confirm that almost every historian will ignore the fact that two same sex "friends" are actually in love. btw this song is so damn catchy like i can't-
My favorite composer: -writes "love me as I love you" in a letter to his "friend" -Starts a letter to said "friend" stating that the kiss he sent him comes from his heart -states in the same letter that all the sirens (aka ladies who flirted with him) in the world doesn't really matter to him and all he cares about was for the continuation of him and the "friend" 's "friendship" -Asks in the ending of a letter to the "friend" about his alleged marriage whether he still loves him or not, and vows that he (the composer) shall love the "friend" until his dying day Historians: Ah yes, a completely heterosexual dude who's also a total Casanova.
That song reminds me of one of my French teachers. She didn't seem really comfortable explaining how Rimbaud and Verlaine (two of the most famous French writers) were a couple for years (it ended quite sadly but we stan a good gay couple that's recognized) and she was keeping her face down as she didn't want to see our faces while she was saying it 😂
ouais sauf que Verlaine était beaucoup plus vieux que Rimbaud c'était un peu zarb et en plus il lui a tiré dans la jambe ce bâtard. moi c'était l'opposé complet. mon prof était hyper progressiste sur la question du coup on avait droit à la vie sentimentale complète de tous les auteurs. du style, oui Marguerite Yourcenar et Grace Frick elle vivaient toutes les deux dans une petite maison aux US, Jean-Luc Lagarce il était gay et quand il a écrit "Juste la fin du monde" il venait de choper le sida et il croyait qu'il allait mourir. et y en a plein d'autres...Marcel Proust dit dans son questionnaire qu'il aime chez les hommes les "charmes féminins" ;) et Van Gogh qui a proposé à Gauguin qu'il vienne vivre avec lui quand il était dans la merde, puis après quand Gauguin s'est barré, Van Gogh a pété une crise et s'est coupé l'oreille...ça met la puce à l'oreille, sans mauvais jeu de mots.
It has the same power like teachers that are too embarrased to say the word ,,sex" in front of the students. If you are embarrased to say it, you should reconsider working with youth!
I'll dedicate this song to Patroclus and Achilles' / Hamilton and Laurens' "friendship" and Sappho's "heterosexuality" Ps.: I genuinely loved this song so much!! Edit: Grammar mistake (English isn't my first language, srry)
*Achilles and Patroclus:* "When I am dead, I charge you to mingle our ashes and bury us together." *Alexander Hamilton and John Laurens:* "Cold in my professions, warm in my friendships, I wish, my dear Laurens, it might be in my power, by action rather than words, to convince you that I love you." *David and Jonathan:* "Now Jonathan again caused David to vow, because he loved him; for he loved him as he loved his own soul." *Daniel and Ashpenaz:* "Now God had brought Daniel to Ashpenaz, the prince of the eunuchs, he showed mercy and engaged in physical love with Daniel." *Historians:* Yeah, I'm pretty sure they were just bEsT fRiEnDs.
But Ruth said, "Do not press me to leave you or to turn back from following you! Where you go, I will go; where you lodge, I will lodge; your people shall be my people, and your God my God. 17 Where you die, I will die- there will I be buried. May the Lord do thus and so to me, and more as well, if even death parts me from you!"
@@eleanorcatherino3839 wow! you know what the bible also says?? וְאֶ֨ת־זָכָ֔ר לֹ֥א תִשְׁכַּ֖ב מִשְׁכְּבֵ֣י אִשָּׁ֑ה תּֽוֹעֵבָ֖ה הִֽוא: "Ve'et-zachar lo tishkav mishkevei ishah to'evah hi." Ve'et- (And) zachar (a male) lo (not) tishkav (you shall lie) mishkevei (beds of/coitally) ishah (a woman) to'evah (an abomination) hi (it)
Hamilton: *literally has a mental breakdown and his life spirals after Laurens dies* Historians: Ah, yes, they must have been extremely close friends nothing was going on between them The letters: *…cold in my professions, warm in my friendships, I wish, my dear Laurens, that it may be in my actions rather than words to convince you that I love you* Historians: …see, he said “friendships” they were just friends
This song makes me think a lot about Alexander Hamilton and John Laurens, especially the part of "too many handwritten letters, signed to my dearest with love". If you have read the letters, you know what I'm talking about, if you haven't, I suggest you do and tell me if you agree with historians calling them "best buddies"
Hamilton’s grandson (maybe great correct me if I’m wrong) call Lafayette, Lauren’s, and Hamilton the “gay trio” and everyone’s argument is that it means happy but the name happy trio? Doesn’t make sense to me.
Alexander Hamilton to John Laurens "Cold in my professions, warm in my friendships, I wish, my dear Laurens, it might be in my power by action rather than words to convince you that I love you. I shall only tell you that till you bade us adieu, I hardly knew the value you taught my heart to set upon you. Indeed, my friend, it was not well done. You know the opinion I entertain of mankind and how much it is my desire to preserve myself free from particular attachments and to keep my happiness independent to the caprice of others. You should not have taken advantage of my sensibility to steal into my affections without consent. But as you have done it and as we are generally indulgent to those we love, I shall not scruple to pardon the fraud you have committed, on condition that for my sake, if not for your own, you will always continue to merit the partiality, which you have artfully instilled into me.” Historians: Ah yes, bEsT FriENdS.
My history class was joking about how we should watch Hamilton, and my teacher’s argument on why we wouldn’t was because it wasn’t really accurate because “it was more likely that Hamilton was having an affair with John Laurens than Angelica” and that shut everyone up real quick for some reason 💀
One of my favourite examples of this was the tomb of the “brothers”! They are literally depicted in the same position that married couples were in on all the tomb paintings! And yet the historians are like “ah yes! Brothers!”
First thing coming up to my mind: Achilles and Patrochilles. Our teacher told us right away, that even though our text books say they were only friends and cousins, they were also lovers. And back then it was pretty common. Many other things controversial now, were normal back then. Why should we cover it up? Because it would piss off some people that can't accept the fact that love is love?
When a man writes to another man saying “If I could marry you I would, but the law stands between us, my dearest, lover. How do you think about running away to a small remote island where there will only be two of us, please consider this my lover, I’m tired of hiding my love towards you around others. I don’t care about anyone else but you love. - Yours sincerely” Historians: “sUcH cLoSe FRieNds” When a man writes to a woman “dear” Historians: LOVERS
man: *breathes in the general direction of a woman* historians: AND THEY WERE LOVERS *cough those two mythological characters who are seen as lovers but are today are only known to interact by sitting on the same couch once*
Friendly reminder that Anne Frank was bi and that several pages of her diary were glued together because she wrote about having a crush on one of the girls in her class.
Yeah, fifteen pages of her diary were removed. In them, she talks about being moved near to tears seeing the Venus De Milo and said she wished she had a girlfriend. It's very wholesome.
ARE YOU KIDDING ME?? SO YOURE SAYING I THOUGHT I READ HER ENTIRE DIARY IN SCHOOL AND TURNS OUT PARTS WERE PURPOSELLY TAKEN OUT?? God historians really do hate lovers..
I'm French and in my textbook it was written that Rimbaud and Verlaine had a "passionate friendship" and my teacher told us they weren't friends but lovers- But I think their couple is one of the most recognised gay couple of history (in another textbook it was clear they weren't just friends it was written that they had a passionate relation but the words couple or lovers were never written)
"Cold in my professions- warm in my friendships- I wish, my Dear Laurens, it were in my power, by actions rather than words, to convince you that I love you. I shall only tell you that 'till you bade us Adieu, I hardly knew the value you had taught my heart to set upon you." - A bit of Alexander Hamilton's letter to John Laurens. Historians: Naw bro, they were best friends!
YESS I WAS JUST ABT TO COMMENT ABT THEM !! also hamilton signing off letters to laurens w "yrs for ever" and writing to him while he was imprisoned, but sure they were just Very Close Friends
This is giving me so much Patroclus and Achilles vibes.. Also, all those LGBT couples from the Greek Era.. That was somehow revised to the morning tales.. Making them just friends..
"The kiss I send you comes from my heart... All the sirens in the world may go to the devil. All I care for is the continuance of your friendship." "Although I miss your companionship, you sent me such a dear and charming letter, that not content with reading it myself, I enlivened a brilliant conversation with extracts from it." "Let me soon have the joy of clasping you to my heart. I have so many things to say to you that will give you pleasure. Love me as I love you." "How are you, mio caro? Do you still love me? I shall love you till my dying day." "Times are not too auspicious, but life is too short. It bids us not to waste it. Heaven send that I may see you again before I die." "Do not cease to love me. I live only for you and for my son." "If I return home and live near you, I shall prolong my days." "Without you I am a body without a soul." "Come post haste. I am in need of your comfort." "I hope to live many more years and to have the happiness of embracing you again-a consolation which may almost be compared to the bliss of lovely and genuine music." "I beseech you to love me." "Never stop loving me. I cannot tell you what a comfort your letter was.[...] I embrace you tenderly." (Excerpts of letters from N.P to L.G.G, taken from Renee de Saussine's biography of N.P)
“with whom I am more in love than ever” “My God, what an angelic creature and how I long to be his slave, his plaything, his property! ”My rendezvous had been arranged for this evening. A truly bitter-sweet dilemma! Finally I decided to go. I spent two absolutely wonderful hours in the most romantic circumstances; I was scared, I was thrilled, I was afraid of the slightest sound. Embraces, kisses, an out-of-the-way apartment… tender talk, what delight!” -Tchaikovsky
I think the best thing about this is the fact that it isn't explicitly gay. To me, that just makes it feel more honest and treats these relationships like what they are, real love between two people. Also, I can just see some homophobe singing this thinking it's some Romeo and Juliette story.
@@jeff4762 what forbidden means? It's when u are not allowed to have something. In this case, maybe the people we are talking about are the same gender, or from different families that are currently at war
Historians: Sappho was simply writing about her students and the _platonic_ love she felt for them! Us: “THEIR IS NO HETEROSEXUAL EXPLANATION FOR THIS!”
As a historian, I can say that I 100% do NOT hate lovers. I do annoy my colleagues a bit though because I may or may not have a bit of hair trigger for saying “or MAYBE they were lovers have we thought of that yet?!” You would be SHOCKED how many historical documents heavily hint at close close relationships that COULD very well be lovers and it’s immediately dismissed.
They both loved eachother. She wanted to protect her from this cruel world. She joined the Survey Corps just for her, after all. The girl with royal blood. She didn't expect to fall in love with her though. She was like a goddess. Everyone loved her. She never told her how she felt. All she did was make jokes about marrying her. At least, everyone saw them as jokes. Eventually... Everything came to an end when she picked the wrong side and they were forced apart. She had little time to live. So she wrote a letter as a final goodbye... Saying how she regretted that she never married her. And so, the tale of the girl with royal blood and her protector ended in a tragedy. Because Historians hate lovers.
I come back to this song when I feel horrible about the state of the USA, and cry. I hope ANYONE being effected by these new laws against the LGBTQA+ community stays safe and know even though the government wants to erase you, you will never be silenced and you are loved by many people who will support you.
i fell inlove with this girl at school during a school production we were in and i told my mum and she just said "it was just the heat of the stage, and what about that boy you met?" I NEVER LIKD HIM BRUH
It's honestly not that difficult- I mean, as aa Historian this song feels almost like an attack on me, but I am one of a kind and will admit that honosexuals existed before the 1960's.
This song just makes me so so sad to think of how many lovers are buried away from each other because no one wanted to see them as more than just good friends and now they’re separated forever
And when you try and bring up the multiple accounts of evidence showing that they were clearly in love, people be like "WhY dO yOu HaVe To MaKe EvErYtHiNg GaY???"
Because that IS GAY! You can't tell me otherwise. If we see gay then it's gay. I will never understant people who think that we make everything gay cause'that is gay🏳️🌈
I hate that response so much, because as a younger kid it would actually work in making me shut up and feel bad. Now I know better. Why do we “make everything gay.” Hm. Well. Maybe because you made everything straight for so long we’re having to work overtime to correct your literal CENTURIES WORTH of oppression and censoring. Why do YOU think that straight is the default and anything that strays too much from that is weird or invasive?
This makes me appreciate my 8th grade text book a lot more. In the Philippines our history and world history is taught in our country's language, tagalog (Araling Panlipunan/Social Studies) and I remember how nonchalant the writers were when talking about queer lovers. From what I can remember (cuz I didn't really study that well) when we were discussing greek writers like Sappho of Lesbos the book blatantly said, "Si Sappho ay isang manunulat na sumulat ayon sa pagmamahal sa pagitan ng dalawang taong may parehong kasarian." "Sappho was a writer that wrote about the love between two people of the same sex." Even in our zoom call with the class our teacher was also very blunt about it.
![kate gill - barbie&ken [Official Lyric Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/K-JVYp-6BQI/mqdefault.jpg)
![kate gill - barbie&ken [Official Lyric Video]](/img/tr.png)
We must live in pride the love others lived in fear.
ayyy 69 likes
Heck yeah
Slay
@@JennySadnick Perhaps even fuck yeah
@@yeaheahy1826 WTF IS UR PFP💀
"lets be historic close friends" is a new way to say that i love a person
Please, let's make this a thing 😄
"Wanna be my best friend" ☺️
"In the historical way?" 😏
This is how I will ask someone out!
PLEASE
same
i'm aroace that only felt attracted to the opposite gender (so far), but if someone would ask me out like this, i would at least consider XD
One dislike was a historian.
On alt accounts
(Edit on 12/7/21)
YO I GOT 83 LIKES DAD I’M FAMOUS 😍
Yep the historian sure does have alot of alt accounts lol
More like fucking 18 LOL 😂
Historians*
@@V.ms_tape 24 HAHAHA
about Chopin:
"In one letter to a male school friend, he wrote: “You don’t like being kissed. Please allow me to do so today. You have to pay for the dirty dream I had about you last night.”
There are 22 letters on record from Chopin to the same friend, Tytus Woyciechowski, and he often began them with “my dearest life”, and signed off: “Give me a kiss, dearest lover.”
But the English-Canadian biographer Alan Walker insisted in his 2018 book Fryderyk Chopin: A Life and Times that the homoerotic love letters penned by Chopin were the result of “psychological confusion”, and added that Woyciechowski was a “bosom friend”.
Chopin bisexual icon
History hates lovers...
Really? Where can i read more about it??? 💖
Dear Lord JUST LET IT BE A ROMANCE BRO
Yea, we were talking about non-hetero stuff once when studing (writting studies, one hour of lecture was for non-hetoro literature) and we are from Poland - country from a very polish-sounding-named Chopin was too, and like... Chopin was told to be one of people to have "same-sex romantic friendship" (romantic because of era "romantism", but like... do they hear themselfs?). Like seriously how is that even a term? How did they came up with this term? "And they had same-sex romantic friendship. Utterly platonic of course"
WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
David to Jonathan: “your love is better than a woman’s love to me” historians: best friends
they literally kiss and have each other's souls bonded for eternity, wish I could find myself good friends like that 😔🙏
I had to read that story for my Religious ed class and I remember internally screaming every few verses, but no best friends
@@dinganiphiri9711 I’m Jewish and I have Torah class-ISTG there’s no way these two aren’t madly in love
@@raspberrycrowns9494 lmao fr
Ruth to Naomi: literal wedding vows.
Catholics and historians: best friends
Achilles and Patroclus jamming to this in the afterlife like “just friends”
omg mood
No, Not Giving Me Miraculous Ladybug Vibes Nu-Uh I Haven’t Watched That Show In Years And That’s What Stuck With Me? REALLY?
I love your pfp!!
@@augustr4wberry and I love yours!
@@bumblebeeproductions1673 thanks
i still remember when we were doing the illiad in my high school latin class and my teacher was like "achilles and patroclus were probably in love but historians don't really like that so you'll have to say they were comrades in the exam"
LUCKYYYY I WANT TO HAVE THAT KIND OF TEACHER!!!
sounds like best teacher ever
It has actually been confirmed by historians that they were lovers
your teacher must’ve been veri epic 😌
what if we were comrades in the trojan war? haha jk... unless?
*cough* Achilles and Patroclus. Bruh when Patroclus died Achilles screamed so loud they could hear it in Hades…… ah yes. Besties.
I’m pretty sure we would hear Hades too if something happens to Persephone
@@Feu_Ghost I think this proves the point exactly 😅
@@sleepyeclipse5832 That was the objective, Thanks
Omg i think my comment got deleted or something so I wanted to apologize dhshhs I got so upset because I didn't know he died yet so i started freaking out hdgsh
It's the way I want someone to love me like they loved. 😔
Whenever I hear this song I remember the Greek gods, history ppl and literally every uncannon ship in all fandoms
EXACTLY
same tbh
Artemis and callisto ( i mean they're cannon but some people said that they're just "friends" and artemis is aroace)
ME TOO
@@adenavardabriana83 she killed her wth
I remember we were reading a story in history class and we were reading about two woman who were “best friends”, my history teacher literally said “And we all know they were more of lovers but historians suck so that’s not going to happen” and honestly that was amazing
nice
as first ones HISTORIAN" -Adora shera princess of power
Ur history teacher sucks and knows nothing about modern academia
Your teacher is an icon
And everyone like that
As a Greek person, this is one of the best songs to describe greek historians. Thank you for this masterpiece 🥰🥰
AHHH SAME:) and history/mythology teachers 1) won’t even mention the “rumors” or 2) will make a bad snarky comment :/
@@kat-vw9yq Ikr! Me and my friend want to ask our history teacher about the Achilles/ Patroclus situation but we are kinda scared🤣
@@alexvarveri1176 well i did ask my Οδύσσεια teacher last yr abt it privately and he got a bit nervous but ultimately he told me it was possible, but isn’t sure djdndckcj
@@kat-vw9yq Η καθηγήτριά μου πέρυσι είχε κρας στον Οδυσσέα- Ο θρησκευτικόας ήταν full supportive και μας είχε πει ότι τα είχαν😌
Trueee Only one teacher ever mentioned a same gender relationship and that was my Odyssey teacher :]
As a Bi-woman who has a passion for queer history, this song slams me in the chest. I want to blast this to the world. I love how cheerful the song sounds but at the same time, damn does it just hit me like a semi-truck.
Wait, I’m bi and into queerhistory
Have I found my platonic soulmates?
@@bumblebeeproductions1673 Two others in the same comment?
Yeah this gets me emotional too
I feel thissssss I am to a Bi who is into queer history :)
I also have that oddly specific passion twins
Fun fact because why the heck not: Emily Dickenson, a well-known poet from the Victorian Era, was secretly in love with a woman. Don't believe me? Look it up, it's such an interesting story!
wow yes! I love this story!
Her and Adrienne Rich are on the official English curriculum I have to study for my exams this year :)
Another fun fact: she's my distant relative and I never knew that. Ig history really does hate lovers :/
She was in love with Sue Gilbert. Sue loved her back they were my gay awakening. They made me feel like i belong Sue even married Emily's brother Austin so she would never be apart from Emily. If you like the too you should wach "dikinson" Hailie stinefeld is Emily and Ella Hunt is Sue. Awsome chemistry
Mary Shelley (got reminded bc it's whereabouts of the same time) was bi and so was her husband Percy Bysse Shelley and literally one of the reasons she wrote Frankenstein was because she got bored out of her skull when they ended up isolated in a beach house during a storm with a "family friend" and the friend's "friend", and her husband was too busy sleeping with said friend because he "didn't often get him to himself away from prying eyes" so she went "ok have fun I'll just be over here changing the history of literature for funsies" 😂😂😂😂😂
Btw the "friend" was Lord Byron lmaooo
Achilles: "When I am dead, I charge you to mingle our ashes and bury us together.”
Historians: Ah yes, they must be bffs
Hollywood: cOUsINs
Ahh what two good pals!! Nothing says best friends like killing one of the strongest Torjan soldiers aka Prince Hector knowing well that it we cause your death but you do it anyway out of vengeance for your very close pal that you shared a bed and a tent with for most of your life .. ahh that's what brotherhood is all about
@@paniccastiel6690 because they were besties 😍😍😍😍😍😍😍😍😍😍😍😍😍😍😍😍😍😍😍😍😍😍😍😍😍😍😍😍
@@jamie_gil1790 Two dudes sitting in a hot tub 5 feet away cause they're not gay!
Except they weren't 5 feet away and they were so very gay.
@@paniccastiel6690 are they really you're bestie if the don't go against all odd to avenge your death??
@@paniccastiel6690 nah they were just very close bros!! 😍😍😍😍😍😍
my lord. I'm in love with this song. It sounds so good and is very true. Whenever I hear “and historians will call them” I immediately start to vibe. SUCHA GREAT SONG
❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️
@@oublaire OMG I DIDNT EXPECT YOU TO REPLY
OMFG U PLAY GENSHIN
@@amfthatlovesxiao897 YUH I DO
@@natuskaa. OOO WHOS UR MAIN? I MAIN KAZU
Lesbian archaeologist-to-be here, and I'm proud to say that the new generation of historians does, in fact, love lovers! 🥰
This kinda gives me hope, thanks
Happy to know that new historians doesn't hate lovers. Spread the love! 💖🌹
Some historians are scared to "call them lovers" because of hate though. They are not all homophobic, just scared of death threats.
@@go-cm4rz I think it's more to do with making academic statements. See, even if every sign points to two historic people being lovers, unless they actually called each other that, we can't say it with 100% certainty - so even if subjectively you think "duh, they were gay", it's not something you can present as an objective fact if you don't have any hard evidence for it.
You could potentially suggest it as a _possibility_ at least, but even then, you'd have to word it carefully.
Academic circles are very strict about subjective statements, and that's probably why a lot of people use more general, objective terms. Can you prove with 100% certainty that they were lovers? No, likely not. But can you prove that they lived together? Yes. Sigh, roommates it is...
This isn't just the case for same sex couples, mind. In archaeology, we can always _speculate_ about the cultural aspects of a place or item, but presenting anything as a hard fact when you can't prove it is a slippery slope.
Academics are very strict like that. :'D
@@huntersden5119 Nobody cares about your opinion.
"Some men would kiss other men because they thought women were useless" - My history teacher (male) talking about ancient cultures
edit: oh WOW, people keep coming here. I've learned a lot in these 2 years, so here more info for you :)
The act was called Sodomy! Occurred in Ancient Greece but also during medieval times (specially in Italy) with those crazy catholic churches.
Sexual activity and lust were already unspeakable because of the church, but when men chose to do it, it was with their pals! There were even cults and reunions around it. The act was done in the dark.
This was a known thing and considered illegal and aligned with heresy (when one is considered enemy of the church. It was the worst thing you could ever be). Despite guards literally being sent to stop that from happening, many of them did not ever return!
Italy 1300s was PEAK (what we know as. don't apply modern terms to ancient concepts) misogyny and women were considered beyond inferior and their “womanhood” linked them to the devil, specially because of the lack of education surrounding menstruation. Now imagine committing the deed with a woman AND one who is bleeding right where it is sinful, how'd that affect the mind of a medieval man? At least men don't bleed, and the deed would be much, much cleaner.
the DENIAL
Ah yes, they weren't gay, just very misogynistic!
THE DENIAL- 💀
THIS CONFIRMS THAT MISOGYNISTIC MEN ARE JUST GAYS IN DENIAL
@@Dustrin i mean.... why you treating a man better than a woman? sus
I love how the song says nothing about it being an lgbt relationship, we all just know it is.
That's cause this bullshit doesn't happen with straight relationships throughout history, never in my life have i seen anyone uniroically say a man and a woman were very close best friends. I'd say the opposite is more true, people tend to assume they were a couple with minimal evidence
Just perfect, am i right?
The song Is literally about a LGTB topic
@@noelia-z9p
I-- yes...? But where in the song does it say so? It doesn't. We just infer it.
The song dosent but it says so in the description
“If Tzar Alexander was a women, I’d make him my mistress” -Napoleon Bonaparte.
THIS 👆
what? when did he say this, napoleon bi icon?
@@DinaTeur There is even a book about Napoleon being bi!
@@gamercarmen3957 really ??? omg the french conservatives are gonna be pissed if they learn that lmao
He told this to his wife 😂😂
obviously gay spouses: we look like a couple here!
historians: *a couple of besties!*
LMAO
Why is this so true???
I have a issue like this with my girl freinds as in tirls who are my freidns they have been asunder to be my gf
This song makes me think of every uncannon LGBTQ+ ship that has a lot of chemistry in the cannon book/movie/tvshow.
supercorp
Soukoku
Ugh Hollywood sucks I know /hj
Girl meets world
Wolfstar
during the WW II there were three Polish guys - Tadeusz Zawadzki - his nickname was Zośka, Jan Bytnar - nickname Rudy and Maciej Aleksy Dawidowski - nickname Alek. They were best friends. They were about 20 years old when they were fighting against the Nazis by for example recapturing the prisoners, taking off the Nazi flags or writing texts against them on the walls. But between two of them - Rudy and Zośka - there was a special relationship. Then the Nazis captured Rudy and tortured him to get the information about the organization he was in. He didn't say anything. The Nazis hurt him so badly that he was dying. Zośka visited him in the prison. Rudy was complaining about his pain, but in the same time he was saying how wonderful he was feeling. He said that they will travel to the countryside and live together while he would heal. Then he told Zośka to lie down next to him. He hugged his head and felt asleep.
Yeah, historians call them best friends.
Historians say that telling that they were in love is offending the memory about them.
History hates lovers...
Ok even if they were actually "only friends" the sentence "historians say that telling that they were in love is offending their memory" is so funny to me. Oh yes the most insulting thing in the world, saying that someone might have not been straight
Is there any confirmed info that they might not be besties, but in love? Or only denying?
Oh bless you for writing about them! It's an absolutely heartbreaking story
Didn’t they have girlfriends?
@@dr.petrov9630 Wilde had a wife, don't think that's much of a point
i just recently discovered this song accidentally on tiktok last week and i literally feel in love with it the moment i first heard it and i’ve been waiting for the full song to be released today !! i love it so much i will play this song 24/7 on repeat 😌
Same 😁
Same
SAME
same
same
i like how everyone uses this song lightheartedly but this actually has a deep and nice meaning to it
"I wish, my Dear Laurens, it might be in my power, by action rather than words, to convince you that I love you. I shall only tell you that ’till you bade us Adieu, I hardly knew the value you had taught my heart to set upon you".
- Alexander Hamilton, to his best friend John Laurens.
"best friend"
@@entitledpussy1411 Obviously /s
@@Nau_ru didn't mean it in a rude way srry
@@entitledpussy1411 Oh no, don't worry! I'm sorry, I didn't mean it that way either
Its actually confirmed that Alexander's son crossed out some parts of the letters between them before publishing them, wonder why.
A posible secret romantic relationship is also touched upon in Alexander Hamilton's biography (the one that inspired the creation of the Brodway musical), and i don't know if this is historically accurate ( don't remember if i read it on the internet or on the biography) but i think someone close to Hamilton used to call Laffayette, Laurens and Hamilton somethig along the lines of "the gay trio"
This song, this just reminds me of two very different things.
One.
Historically, Alexander Hamilton and John Laurence.
Alex LITERALLY said he didn't want to be married to a woman and wanted John.
Like. wHAT?
And then.
Fuckin Gravity Falls.
Thank god Alex Hirsch has made it very clear about Durland and Blubs.
Because DAMN DISNEY.
Disney is just like
"They're just close"
BRO THEY SAID THEY WERE IN LOVE
"Cold in my professions, warm in my friendships" wasn't enough for fucking historians WTF, what a shame 😪
LAMSSSSSS
Achilles and Patroclus have "the song of achilles" meanwhile, Alexander and John have "Duty and Inclination." Both books are good.
*laurens
Omg someone who finally mentions Gravity Falls! Yes, best cops
My gf and I joke about being ‘gal pals’ and ‘close friends’ because we find it funny, as when we are together we are obviously _together_.
But I still call her ‘my friend’ when I’m talking to ppl I don’t really know. And every time it feels like I’m putting up a little shield to keep those people away, but in doing so I lose her in that version of me. It’s such a little thing, just four letter missing in front of the word ‘friend’. Dut in doing so, feels like a part of me and my life is missing.
I don’t want to lose her in any version of me. I love her in all of them. Even if history would hate us.
A sucky thing that an unfortunate number of queer people relate to.
i’m sorry this is so random but- this. this is so beautifully written and i didn’t expect to be on the verge of tears on a tuesday night at 12 am wtf
We must live in pride the love others lived in shame
“I don’t want to lose her in any version of me. I love her in all of them. Even if history would hate us.”
Oh my god, that is the most beautiful thing I’ve heard in my life.
@@hetsteills2748 wtf? i'm also here on the verge of tears (aka weeping) on a tuesday night at 12 am :o
My dumbass was interpreting “those four words” to be best. Like best friends. And I was like “did you even hear the song??” Promptly realized the 4 letters are girl and I am stupid
I love that my teacher will straight up say that they were lovers instead of friends, it so nice to think that not every history teacher will cover it up
I wish I had your history teacher, my history teacher will always call them “best friends”. *sigh* history hates lovers.
As a aspiring historian who's in school right now this song is my anthem.
LGBT+ history is something I'd love to research and publish about because of the historians brought up in the song.
We've evolved past the point where my peers need to keep things in the dark for any reason, and I'll be damned if I follow the path that these past historians traveled.
There are so many historical perspectives and relationships that we know about that fit their agenda, but there are way too many that are just too obviously gay to be ignored.
It's frustrating, but thankfully I'm not alone in trying to right the wrongs of ignorant historians.
Fantastic work with the song!
That's so cool! I'm rooting for ya! ^^
We rooting for u we're all rooting for u
@@friedlemon5172 Thank you!
@@sweetprince6474 Thank you!
I hope you achieve your dreams and research into this 💖
“who’s gonna tell us the stories that our textbooks don’t?”
me: /keeps including in queer history and queer and trans subtext in classic literature at every chance i get at A CHRISTIAN SCHOOL
queen
Thank you
same though lol
I’m at a Christian school rn..I could use someone like you..so much hate
Good! 🥰
"Too many hand written letters signed to my dearest with love."
"To my dear Historia....
As I write this, Reiner is standing at my side. He knows that this is a love letter and yet he's still sneaking peeks. It's no wonder that creep's still single.
That said, he did give me his word that he'd deliver this letter to you. He says he owes me for the time I doubled back to save him.
I'm sorry about then... I never would have imagined choosing those two... Over you....
I'm going to die soon... But... I'll die without regrets.
Or that's what I'd like to say.
The truth is, I do have one.
*It's that I never got to marry you....*
With love...
Ymir. "
PLEASE STOP IM BAWLING MY EYES NOW
YES I CRIED AT THAT SCENE
LITERALLY
PERFECT EXAMPLE AHHH I'M CRYING
STOPSTOPSTOP NO I THOUGHT I'VE ALREADY MOVED ON FROM THIS...
I’m realizing how lucky i was with my highschool teachers, who (mostly) didn’t give two flying F*cks of historian’s hate of loving relationships, and just told us of most of the queer relationships, that they knew of.
Of course they couldn’t get away with everything. I remember when my literature teacher taught us the biography of Giacomo Leopardi, one of the most esteemed and respected poets of Italian Literature, and when she told us how he lived the last part of his life with the writer Antonio Ranieri, who took care of him and was his emotional support at the very end of his sickness, she told us “just remember that there still is a hot debate among historians about what exactly the nature of their “Friendship” was”, and she paused and gave us that look, that look that says “You know what I mean…”
Leopardi couldn't have been more bi if he'd trained for it like....
OMG IM ITALIAN AND HAD NO CLUE
WHY DON'T THEY WRITE THIS STUFF IN BOOKS ISTG I LIVE NEAR LEOPARDI'S HOMETOWN
@@sirmodstan5489 I think "why don't they write this stuff in books" is the whole point xD
I honestly think if Wilde hadn't gone out the way he did, they'd be talking about his "close friendship" with Bosie Douglas
DaVinci literally doodled d*cks in his sketchbooks and little comments about his model/lover (the one who posed for Saint John The Baptist) as well as various of his apprentices and apparently whether or not he was into men is "up for debate", too
"2 kids and a golden retriever" 😫😫 loved it
as someone who is deeply invested in history i love this, i can confirm that almost every historian will ignore the fact that two same sex "friends" are actually in love. btw this song is so damn catchy like i can't-
My favorite composer: -writes "love me as I love you" in a letter to his "friend"
-Starts a letter to said "friend" stating that the kiss he sent him comes from his heart
-states in the same letter that all the sirens (aka ladies who flirted with him) in the world doesn't really matter to him and all he cares about was for the continuation of him and the "friend" 's "friendship"
-Asks in the ending of a letter to the "friend" about his alleged marriage whether he still loves him or not, and vows that he (the composer) shall love the "friend" until his dying day
Historians: Ah yes, a completely heterosexual dude who's also a total Casanova.
Which composer is this? Chopin?
It's Chopin isn't it?
@@andreah9587 It's actually Paganini and the "friend" is Luigi Germi!
@@ennui9745 nope, it's Paganini and the "friend" is Luigi Germi.
@@littlefawn1637 Thank you!
That song reminds me of one of my French teachers. She didn't seem really comfortable explaining how Rimbaud and Verlaine (two of the most famous French writers) were a couple for years (it ended quite sadly but we stan a good gay couple that's recognized) and she was keeping her face down as she didn't want to see our faces while she was saying it 😂
ouais sauf que Verlaine était beaucoup plus vieux que Rimbaud c'était un peu zarb et en plus il lui a tiré dans la jambe ce bâtard.
moi c'était l'opposé complet. mon prof était hyper progressiste sur la question du coup on avait droit à la vie sentimentale complète de tous les auteurs.
du style, oui Marguerite Yourcenar et Grace Frick elle vivaient toutes les deux dans une petite maison aux US, Jean-Luc Lagarce il était gay et quand il a écrit "Juste la fin du monde" il venait de choper le sida et il croyait qu'il allait mourir.
et y en a plein d'autres...Marcel Proust dit dans son questionnaire qu'il aime chez les hommes les "charmes féminins" ;)
et Van Gogh qui a proposé à Gauguin qu'il vienne vivre avec lui quand il était dans la merde, puis après quand Gauguin s'est barré, Van Gogh a pété une crise et s'est coupé l'oreille...ça met la puce à l'oreille, sans mauvais jeu de mots.
It has the same power like teachers that are too embarrased to say the word ,,sex" in front of the students. If you are embarrased to say it, you should reconsider working with youth!
LMAO, FR?
@@Kolxyawtf r u doing here
@@kiera1200 WHY ARE YOU HERE.
I LITERALLY FORGOT ABOUT THIS AND IT CAME OUT YESTERDAY AND I WAS RUSHING TO LOOK FOR THIS WHEN I REMEMBERED
I LOVE IT SO MUCH-
Whos
@@Cup_o_Caffeine i corrected it I hope now it makes more sense,I was rushing to write that because I needed to help my father with soemthing
“close friends, besties, roommates, colleagues anything but lovers” this part playing in my mind on repeat
I'll dedicate this song to Patroclus and Achilles' / Hamilton and Laurens' "friendship" and Sappho's "heterosexuality"
Ps.: I genuinely loved this song so much!!
Edit: Grammar mistake (English isn't my first language, srry)
just like "I want to be buried with this man I love him" AH YES HETEROSEXUALITY
@@reyniedaze2413 Exactly!! Do people actually consider THAT friendship??
I was looking for this comment
@@adrianaalves6655 Really?!?! Thank you!! ^w^
Add in Isabella of Prama and her sister-in-law. There are VERY EXPLICIT letters between the two. They were so clearly lovers!
*Achilles and Patroclus:* "When I am dead, I charge you to mingle our ashes and bury us together."
*Alexander Hamilton and John Laurens:* "Cold in my professions, warm in my friendships, I wish, my dear Laurens, it might be in my power, by action rather than words, to convince you that I love you."
*David and Jonathan:* "Now Jonathan again caused David to vow, because he loved him; for he loved him as he loved his own soul."
*Daniel and Ashpenaz:* "Now God had brought Daniel to Ashpenaz, the prince of the eunuchs, he showed mercy and engaged in physical love with Daniel."
*Historians:* Yeah, I'm pretty sure they were just bEsT fRiEnDs.
Don’t forget Ruth and Naomi in the Bible, she literally said a marraige vow to her
But Ruth said, "Do not press me to leave you or to turn back from following you! Where you go, I will go; where you lodge, I will lodge; your people shall be my people, and your God my God. 17 Where you die, I will die- there will I be buried. May the Lord do thus and so to me, and more as well, if even death parts me from you!"
@@eleanorcatherino3839 wow! you know what the bible also says??
וְאֶ֨ת־זָכָ֔ר לֹ֥א תִשְׁכַּ֖ב מִשְׁכְּבֵ֣י אִשָּׁ֑ה תּֽוֹעֵבָ֖ה הִֽוא:
"Ve'et-zachar lo tishkav mishkevei ishah to'evah hi."
Ve'et- (And)
zachar (a male)
lo (not)
tishkav (you shall lie)
mishkevei (beds of/coitally)
ishah (a woman)
to'evah (an abomination)
hi (it)
@@eleanorcatherino3839no but Naomi was older than Ruth 😅Naomi was her mother in law that time
@@neanxie7601 I mean, considering the Bible and the time it’s probably the most wholesome you’re gonna get
Hamilton: *literally has a mental breakdown and his life spirals after Laurens dies*
Historians: Ah, yes, they must have been extremely close friends nothing was going on between them
The letters: *…cold in my professions, warm in my friendships, I wish, my dear Laurens, that it may be in my actions rather than words to convince you that I love you*
Historians: …see, he said “friendships” they were just friends
This song makes me think a lot about Alexander Hamilton and John Laurens, especially the part of "too many handwritten letters, signed to my dearest with love". If you have read the letters, you know what I'm talking about, if you haven't, I suggest you do and tell me if you agree with historians calling them "best buddies"
YOU CAN'T TELL ME THEY WEREN'T IN LOVE
I AGREE WITH THIS SO MUCH
Hamilton’s grandson (maybe great correct me if I’m wrong) call Lafayette, Lauren’s, and Hamilton the “gay trio” and everyone’s argument is that it means happy but the name happy trio? Doesn’t make sense to me.
@@marysummers233 bruh historian moment
Alexander Hamilton to John Laurens
"Cold in my professions, warm in my friendships, I wish, my dear Laurens, it might be in my power by action rather than words to convince you that I love you. I shall only tell you that till you bade us adieu, I hardly knew the value you taught my heart to set upon you. Indeed, my friend, it was not well done. You know the opinion I entertain of mankind and how much it is my desire to preserve myself free from particular attachments and to keep my happiness independent to the caprice of others. You should not have taken advantage of my sensibility to steal into my affections without consent. But as you have done it and as we are generally indulgent to those we love, I shall not scruple to pardon the fraud you have committed, on condition that for my sake, if not for your own, you will always continue to merit the partiality, which you have artfully instilled into me.”
Historians: Ah yes, bEsT FriENdS.
My history class was joking about how we should watch Hamilton, and my teacher’s argument on why we wouldn’t was because it wasn’t really accurate because “it was more likely that Hamilton was having an affair with John Laurens than Angelica” and that shut everyone up real quick for some reason 💀
HELP
Petition to re-write Hamilton but with this frankly much more historically accurate plotline…
@@Shsy7573 I'll sign 🙏
One of my favourite examples of this was the tomb of the “brothers”! They are literally depicted in the same position that married couples were in on all the tomb paintings! And yet the historians are like “ah yes! Brothers!”
and they were tombmates!
First thing coming up to my mind: Achilles and Patrochilles. Our teacher told us right away, that even though our text books say they were only friends and cousins, they were also lovers. And back then it was pretty common. Many other things controversial now, were normal back then. Why should we cover it up? Because it would piss off some people that can't accept the fact that love is love?
When a man writes to another man saying “If I could marry you I would, but the law stands between us, my dearest, lover. How do you think about running away to a small remote island where there will only be two of us, please consider this my lover, I’m tired of hiding my love towards you around others. I don’t care about anyone else but you love. - Yours sincerely”
Historians: “sUcH cLoSe FRieNds”
When a man writes to a woman “dear”
Historians: LOVERS
man: *breathes in the general direction of a woman*
historians: AND THEY WERE LOVERS *cough those two mythological characters who are seen as lovers but are today are only known to interact by sitting on the same couch once*
I guess you could say...
*history has its eyes on you*
AH-HA, A FELLOW HAMILFAN
@@adrianaalves6655 yes
A FELLOW HAMILTON FAN HELLO
This comment satisfied me
In history one could say "I will never be satisfied"
imagine the potential this could've had in 2016-17, like the hamilton fandom would have CLAIMED this.
The amrev Tumblr claimed it instead :DD
Oh honey.
We're still here.
We're still around. Always will be...
YaS
We're still here
I love this song so much. I CAN'T STOP THINKING ABOUT PATROCHILLES 💖💖💖
Same!! This song is for them!! Like clearly Achilles and Patroclus were mad lovers
I need other version of this but with: "And history will call them... enemies, foes, opponents"
YES THO
Friendly reminder that Anne Frank was bi and that several pages of her diary were glued together because she wrote about having a crush on one of the girls in her class.
WAIT REALLY?? AYY WHAT A QUEEN! Btw do you have any sources 👀
Yeah, fifteen pages of her diary were removed. In them, she talks about being moved near to tears seeing the Venus De Milo and said she wished she had a girlfriend. It's very wholesome.
ARE YOU KIDDING ME?? SO YOURE SAYING I THOUGHT I READ HER ENTIRE DIARY IN SCHOOL AND TURNS OUT PARTS WERE PURPOSELLY TAKEN OUT?? God historians really do hate lovers..
BICON.
@@elyzionite The Diary of a Young Girl is the source I'm relatively sure of it.
Gay lovers be like:
Historians after listening to this: Ahhhh so besties
I'm French and in my textbook it was written that Rimbaud and Verlaine had a "passionate friendship" and my teacher told us they weren't friends but lovers-
But I think their couple is one of the most recognised gay couple of history (in another textbook it was clear they weren't just friends it was written that they had a passionate relation but the words couple or lovers were never written)
I love those gay people
"Cold in my professions- warm in my friendships- I wish, my Dear Laurens, it were in my power, by actions rather than words, to convince you that I love you. I shall only tell you that 'till you bade us Adieu, I hardly knew the value you had taught my heart to set upon you." - A bit of Alexander Hamilton's letter to John Laurens.
Historians: Naw bro, they were best friends!
YESS I WAS JUST ABT TO COMMENT ABT THEM !! also hamilton signing off letters to laurens w "yrs for ever" and writing to him while he was imprisoned, but sure they were just Very Close Friends
@@elidrawz8346 they had more intimacy then he had with the schuyler sisters because what he wanted from them was legacy.
"Alexander, you're the *closest friend* I got"
@YVES Sorry! I kind of just focused on the most popular bit people know-
Alexander Hamilton and John Laurens
Historians: and they were good friends
"Good friends" 😂
"aNd ThEy WeRe RoOmMaTeS"
Yeaaaah good friends let's stick to this idea...
"And I took that personally"
CoLd iN mY pRofEsSioNs WaRm iN mY fRienDsHipS I wiSh mY dEar LaUreNs- *cries*
I'm literally reading "The Song Of Achilles" right now, perfect song to play in the background lmao
this was 5 months ago you probably finished the book so im just checking up on you
You okay now?
you still emotionally damaged?
No answer means no 😂
my history teacher to us: "Historians suck these days, these men were probably more then Comrades and were lovers."
i love that dude- And his husband
nothing sus
That's AWESOME. Turn every history teacher in the world to your's.
Achilles and Patroclus?
This is giving me so much Patroclus and Achilles vibes.. Also, all those LGBT couples from the Greek Era.. That was somehow revised to the morning tales.. Making them just friends..
This reminds me of the "friendship" between John Laurens and Alexander Hamilton because there is proof they did love each other
"The kiss I send you comes from my heart... All the sirens in the world may go to the devil. All I care for is the continuance of your friendship."
"Although I miss your companionship, you sent me such a dear and charming letter, that not content with reading it myself, I enlivened a brilliant conversation with extracts from it."
"Let me soon have the joy of clasping you to my heart. I have so many things to say to you that will give you pleasure. Love me as I love you."
"How are you, mio caro? Do you still love me? I shall love you till my dying day."
"Times are not too auspicious, but life is too short. It bids us not to waste it. Heaven send that I may see you again before I die."
"Do not cease to love me. I live only for you and for my son."
"If I return home and live near you, I shall prolong my days."
"Without you I am a body without a soul."
"Come post haste. I am in need of your comfort."
"I hope to live many more years and to have the happiness of embracing you again-a consolation which may almost be compared to the bliss of lovely and genuine music."
"I beseech you to love me."
"Never stop loving me. I cannot tell you what a comfort your letter was.[...] I embrace you tenderly."
(Excerpts of letters from N.P to L.G.G, taken from Renee de Saussine's biography of N.P)
George Washington, Alexander Hamilton, Achilles, Patroclus, Sappho, and so many more needed to bee seen! I love this song so much!
@YVES well, it is possible that George Washington could've been gay. Of course, it'll be hard to know because of the same reason this song was made.
@YVES fair, I may have gotten my research wrong. There's a lot of suspiciously flowery personal letters.
“with whom I am more in love than ever”
“My God, what an angelic creature and how I long to be his slave, his plaything, his property!
”My rendezvous had been arranged for this evening. A truly bitter-sweet dilemma! Finally I decided to go. I spent two absolutely wonderful hours in the most romantic circumstances; I was scared, I was thrilled, I was afraid of the slightest sound. Embraces, kisses, an out-of-the-way apartment… tender talk, what delight!”
-Tchaikovsky
EXCUSE ME????
"how I long to be his slave"
damn, I didn't know Tchaikovsky was this... kin-
@@sachsoup omg i didnt even notice that 😭😭😭😭
@@sachsoup and plaything and property, too!
kInkYyy
"How many decades of hiding?"
I felt that😭😭
Just me casually singing this in front of my homophobic family 😁
Lmao mood
RIP
YES PREACH🏳️🌈
I would love a video of their reaction 😂
Saaaame 😂
I think the best thing about this is the fact that it isn't explicitly gay. To me, that just makes it feel more honest and treats these relationships like what they are, real love between two people.
Also, I can just see some homophobe singing this thinking it's some Romeo and Juliette story.
That last bit would be funny
@@Lord_Medieval_Pizzasame energy as a right conservative singing "take me to church" lmfao
@@noonelooksatusers o_o
As a historian, I can say that indeed, we don't actually call people who are in love "lovers". Especially, when love for them is forbidden.
May I ask why that is?
@@jeff4762 what forbidden means? It's when u are not allowed to have something. In this case, maybe the people we are talking about are the same gender, or from different families that are currently at war
@@stuartwilliams3206 Ah, that makes sense! Thanks for clearing that up.
Even If those people are long dead?
@@sleepydreams9046 in what way for u mean?
Historians: Sappho was simply writing about her students and the _platonic_ love she felt for them!
Us: “THEIR IS NO HETEROSEXUAL EXPLANATION FOR THIS!”
As a historian, I can say that I 100% do NOT hate lovers. I do annoy my colleagues a bit though because I may or may not have a bit of hair trigger for saying “or MAYBE they were lovers have we thought of that yet?!” You would be SHOCKED how many historical documents heavily hint at close close relationships that COULD very well be lovers and it’s immediately dismissed.
I've been waiting too long for this masterpiece between I love your voice sow much
This has got to be one of the best songs I’ve ever heard, by far. I cannot explain how much this song means to me, as a queer trans man :]
People living together, sleeping in the same bed, kissing, having kids etc.
Historians: "They were friends, good friends, acquaintances 😊👌"
Es increíble el arte que hace, no solo la canción de banana fish, sino está y las demás de su canal, espero que sigas creciendo ❤️
De qué? 👁💧👄💧👁
Banana Fish? 🥲💔
Did Google Translate goof up or did this amazing songwriter write a song about banana fish?
@@lapinatadelafiesta hizo una canción que Eiji le dedicaba a Ash
@@cadennemcdaris788 Google has not been wrong, I really create one and it is impressive
I'm so happy that the complete song _came out_
I was listening to this nonstop in history class and almost cried. Definitely one of my new favorite songs.
"Do you want to be close friends, in a historical way" is now the best way to flirt with someone
They both loved eachother. She wanted to protect her from this cruel world. She joined the Survey Corps just for her, after all. The girl with royal blood.
She didn't expect to fall in love with her though. She was like a goddess. Everyone loved her.
She never told her how she felt. All she did was make jokes about marrying her. At least, everyone saw them as jokes.
Eventually... Everything came to an end when she picked the wrong side and they were forced apart. She had little time to live. So she wrote a letter as a final goodbye... Saying how she regretted that she never married her.
And so, the tale of the girl with royal blood and her protector ended in a tragedy.
Because Historians hate lovers.
Why must you do this? That hurted.
@@loki1456 Sorry 😭😭 I also wanted to do an Eremika version-
@@aruxani DO IT PLEASE
@@Yeyeye8431 I might 👀
This is really making me wonder how many beautiful love stories history has forgotten because certain people deemed them wrong
Such a beautiful song. I'd like to think this helps all the millions of people who never got to show off their love
Dios realmente esperé demasiado por esto pero es más que obvio que valió la pena la espera ♡
This song:
Future historians: Yes yes, a very hetero song about very hetero people, obviously
Obviously about interracial straight couples suffering from discriminate
This song is amazing
Reminds me of an argument I had with my history teacher about a dude being gay because normal freinds don't wanna have their ashes mixed
I come back to this song when I feel horrible about the state of the USA, and cry. I hope ANYONE being effected by these new laws against the LGBTQA+ community stays safe and know even though the government wants to erase you, you will never be silenced and you are loved by many people who will support you.
finally the time we’ve all been waiting for AHHHHH
i fell inlove with this girl at school during a school production we were in and i told my mum and she just said "it was just the heat of the stage, and what about that boy you met?" I NEVER LIKD HIM BRUH
Pride is once again upon us, and as is tradition, it's time to come back to this song.
Happy pride 2024, to all of us.
YAAASSSS ESPERE ESTO DURANTE 12 DÍAS, Y LO VALIO CADA MALDITO SEGUNDO
As a Hamilton fan, I recently found out that Ham and Laurens were apparently more than just friends.
They're just friends (sarcastic)
This song makes me want to be a historian just so I can know the truth about all the "close friends"
It's honestly not that difficult-
I mean, as aa Historian this song feels almost like an attack on me, but I am one of a kind and will admit that honosexuals existed before the 1960's.
This song just makes me so so sad to think of how many lovers are buried away from each other because no one wanted to see them as more than just good friends and now they’re separated forever
And when you try and bring up the multiple accounts of evidence showing that they were clearly in love, people be like "WhY dO yOu HaVe To MaKe EvErYtHiNg GaY???"
Because that IS GAY! You can't tell me otherwise. If we see gay then it's gay. I will never understant people who think that we make everything gay cause'that is gay🏳️🌈
I hate that response so much, because as a younger kid it would actually work in making me shut up and feel bad. Now I know better. Why do we “make everything gay.” Hm. Well. Maybe because you made everything straight for so long we’re having to work overtime to correct your literal CENTURIES WORTH of oppression and censoring. Why do YOU think that straight is the default and anything that strays too much from that is weird or invasive?
As a Historian, some of us are trying to change this!
This makes me appreciate my 8th grade text book a lot more. In the Philippines our history and world history is taught in our country's language, tagalog (Araling Panlipunan/Social Studies) and I remember how nonchalant the writers were when talking about queer lovers. From what I can remember (cuz I didn't really study that well) when we were discussing greek writers like Sappho of Lesbos the book blatantly said, "Si Sappho ay isang manunulat na sumulat ayon sa pagmamahal sa pagitan ng dalawang taong may parehong kasarian."
"Sappho was a writer that wrote about the love between two people of the same sex."
Even in our zoom call with the class our teacher was also very blunt about it.
omg talaga ba??? kapag catholic private school ko may nakitang ganto siguro i cocover up nila JDHDJSJSJS
You have an incredible voice and this song fills me with joy
i heard the chorus in a meme and came to the song and damn this hits way harder than i expected i think i might cry
i wanna become a historian basically to change this...
This song is as much a gem as others!!! My warmest congrats on releasing a new internet meme!
Historical Alexander Hamilton and John Laurence that’s all I gotta says
J'avais tellement hâte qu'elle sorte en entière ! Bravo pour ton magnifique travail, cette chanson est parfaite ! 👏👏
So true!!! Remember u are valid, doesn’t matter what anyone says ❤️🧡💛💚💙💜