I Have Decided To Allow My Child To Chose Its Own Sex & Appearance
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- Опубликовано: 16 июл 2021
- Star Trek The Next Generation s03e16 The Offspring
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"I have not observed anyone else on board consulting you about their procreation, Captain."
Oooh, the 🔥🔥🔥
Actually, pregnancy of a subordinate is something that a commanding officer expects to be informed about.
@@joeschembrie9450 That's where ST:TNG kind of messed up in their overall plot: they created a starship with families and children on board. I wonder how that would actually be handled or if it even could. As they point out, Starfleet isn't quite military, but has some military structure. Also, the CO needs to know about pregnancy because it will impact the crew member's ability to do their job. This is not the case with Data, so he probably didn't think it was worth telling Picard.
Something I really like in this episode is seeing Picard struggle with his prejudice. He knows Data is a person, heck he's one of Data's greatest advocates and a close friend... but he still struggles to put that into practice.
@ Ian Burns
Knowing Picard, this was almost just as much about his prejudice against children as it was about any prejudice against robots.
@@joeschembrie9450 This. When it comes to a ship... and in this fantasy, a ship that goes on long voyages, the crew count is important, the crew's ability to work, the space of living quarters and ample rations are to be considered. Thus, it is important to inform a commanding officer of a pregnancy. This would be an enormous problem if you had a large crew of say 1,000 people and let's say 150 of the women were pregnant. Not saying that is likely but it's quite important information. And of course the medical staff would definitely have knowledge as well.
Picard is talking to Data like it’s his son who accidentally got a girl pregnant lmao it’s actually kinda cute how concerned he is
Really he's talking to Data like a parent who just found out about their son having a child *without knowing about it happening first* - which is still very cute, but also an understandable reaction.
Or a friend
About to have to betray that trust bringing in star fleet
Androids have no rights yet in the federation, Data is the exception after the court case
Hes the property of Star fleet And they like to be informed
@@donovanulrich348 He’s not the property.
@@shayla106 What has you all dumbfounded is that Picard is dancing around the real problem.
Star Fleet has attempted to dismantle Data in the past.
Here it's a fresh opportunity to do so again. Picard knows that Star Fleet isn't perfect or all encompassing benign, and all that's stopping them from _dissecting_ his kid is Picard, it's HIS responsibility too.
As Donovan up there mentioned, the court case was just for 1 Data.
No other laws or cases have been created yet for a 2nd or more.
If told earlier, Picard could have tried to lay the groundwork for Data to have a kid without Star Fleet meddling in.
@@donovanulrich348 Data was never the property of Starfleet. As my late father pointed out, he was created by Soong not a Starfleet officer. He simply joined Starfleet like everyone else. Which is stupid to why he was considered as such. Unless Maddox and others arrogantly assumed he became their property when he joined the service.
These scene makes Picard later fights with the Admiral make so much more sense. His first reluctance to call her a child then later making the argument that he won't allow a child to be forced to be taken from their parent by the state the way the Admiral was threatening. It is very much a point of growth and learning for Picard as well as for Data.
Picard was actually aware of it turning into this. He knows it's a life, but he can't yet call it a Child without first formulating in his head what to call this new being.
If he starts calling it a Child without evidence, he's letting his emotions guide his decisions, and as you are aware in any military installation? You let emotions into your arguments? You are immediately ignored.
He's already wording everything Star Fleet is about to say to get ways he can help Data. He's frustrated because he knows he'll have to stand up and fight this, putting his command at risk by defying orders again.
Truth is, the Admiral was in the same kind of boat Picard was. The Admiral was simply on the other side of the coin (yes I’m using two metaphors back to back, sue me). Both simply needed and came to see what Data saw: A father’s child
Lol you just know that throwaway line about Klingon parenting turned into pages of official lore and dozens if not hundreds of fan fictions
what do you mean by that 🤨
Sometimes I've found myself wondering if klingon dads encouraged their sons to headbutt them, and pretended to be stunned from them.
Given how much Picard hates children, saying it’s not a child may actually be a compliment from him.
He doesn't actually hate children, he's just uncomfortable around them. He's also always wanted a family, but always wound up feeling like he needed to put his duty to Starfleet above his own desire. When he lost his brother and nephew in Generations, it really hit him hard how he'd never taken the time to grow his own branch of the Picard Family Tree. His personal experience in The Nexus shows just how much he wished he could have had children of his own.
Picard doesn't hate children, he's just really uncomfortable around them. That makes sense on a couple of levels.
First, he's very intellectual and cerebral, whereas most children are emotional and visceral. He'd probably be much more comfortable around Vulcan children.
Second, his most direct and vested interaction with a child prior to serving on the Enterprise was telling Wesley Crusher about the death of his father. Reminding himself of that in any way isn't his favorite thing. It's really heartwarming that he later mentors Wesley, partially healing that loss without trying to replace his father.
You made me laugh out loud. You really did!
@@woodrobin You forgot to mention that Picard also doesn't like the idea of families on board a Starfleet vessel, considering them innocent casualties if things go wrong. Crew members and their spouses signed up for the duty, they know the risks. Children do not and have never been made aware of the risks.
@@loka7783 Nor are they consulted or their acceptance required for the continuation of their taking that risk they never agreed to take. It's actually for the best if they're going to be dragged along on this ship where any number of horrific things can happen to its occupants, that they not be told of any of it, it would scare them so bad they would be in panic mode, probably constantly.
I do appreciate how they kept roasting Picard's reactions in this clip. He was super frustrated.
In retrospect picard or rather his attitude on the situation (in the beginning at least) brought it on himself
@@skynetprime82 Picard may have been a great captain but he's not too good at handling so-called family situations.
@@Elly3981 I mean let's be a little fair. He is absolutely right that Starfleet would not treat Lal like a child, but a machine. He has a point, to a degree. Picard has always had to balance between "the right thing" and "Starfleet's way" and this was a prime example of that at work. I think even in the early scenes, he knew. But as a Starfleet officer, he had to speak for Starfleet.
@@arvurebantra7639No, he cries, apologizes and quits Starfleet.
I love Data's innocent attempts to regain eye contact as Picard is drowning into his double facepalm
Well, technically, Data was right when he said creating a new life is what parenting is all about, lol.
Eh? Wasn't Data merely trying to see Picard's face to better understand what he was thinking and feeling?
Among the many great things about this episode is that it's one of the few cases where Data was really right and Picard was wrong, and Picard learned and grew from Data, rather than the other way around
I don't think Picard was wrong as much as he was cornered. I haven't ever watched Star Trek before I discovered this channel, so context may be lost for me; but I understand that while Data is being perfectly rationnal, Picard percieve the procreation of the android in a more abstract, *non-computable* way. But I also understand that he's aware of the illogical attitude he pursue, and is ready to accept Data's endeavour.
Trully facinating what a 5 minutes clip can convey!
@@amauryleblanc7979 I think that you're right that Picard is seeing the big picture, but that he's missing the trees for the forest. He's hung up on the big concept of 'Data is creating new life, this is a miracle and an enormous responsibility and has implications' and skipping right over 'this is something biological people do every day without much comment.'
I think that the main issue is that data's "procreation" is not the same as procreation within other species. Data engineering his own "child" is unprecedented. The child would literally be the first of it's kind. Reading existing books on conventional parenting does not fully apply, and the risks/implications are far greater. Creating a new form of sentient life raises numerous ethical issues, the fact that data was created in a similar way does not mean that the process should necessarily be repeated without sufficient diligence.
To me the outcome is proof that data was wrong. He creates a lifeform which has a very short life span, but also the emotional capability to fear its own death. The fact that he gives the child emotions which he is not able to comprehend is also careless - the fact that he did this by accident makes it no better.
Big time data fan, but he dropped the ball in my opinion
What has you all dumbfounded is that Picard is dancing around the real problem.
Star Fleet has attempted to dismantle Data in the past.
Here it's a fresh opportunity to do so again. Picard knows that Star Fleet isn't perfect, and all that's stopping them from _dissecting_ his kid is Picard, it's HIS responsibility too.
Neither of them are wrong. The problem is this is unique situation not a single person in all of creation has ever experienced before. Not even Dr. Soong. He created a sentient android but never before has a sentient android gone on to create their own child.
Data was right in the desire to want to procreate and not consult anybody. In that respect, it's nobody's business but his own. He has every right to want to have a child and raise them as he sees fit just as every other species has that right.
Picard is right in wanting to be consulted beforehand because not long ago, he had to prove to a tribunal that Data was indeed a person and not just a machine. There's still plenty of prejudice against him in that regard. The Admiral is proof enough of that. Would Lal have to go through the same tribunal? What happens if she is not seen as a living person? Would she be left to be an eternal guinea pig in a lab somewhere?
Data and Lal's situation is completely uncharted territory. I understand why Picard would want some forewarning, so he can prepare and know how best to protect their rights and freedoms. I understand why Data did not consult him as well.
I can't BELIEVE I thought this show was boring when I was a kid. I guess I was one of those "oh, old people sitting in a room and talking = boring" kids.
"You've never had a child."
Damn, Troi. Hitting hard, but hitting real.
I mean, Picard is pretty much the daddy of his whole crew, let's be real here.
@@DraculaCronqvistWell yeah. Q also said that Janeway was like the mommy of the Voyager crew when she declined to have his baby. As for Picard, he treats Data, Geordi, Wesleyy and other young members of his crew like his own children since he never had any of his own. Data's loss in ST Nemeses deeply affected Picard because losing Data was like losing a son.
Guinan will have been a better Councelor than Troi she's unfit for the role.
@@stuartemmanuel3735 She had Ian who only lived about a week.
Star Trek was ahead of its time. Allowing your child to pick its own sex and appearance is the norm these days.
Beginning of episode Picard: "I demand we don't call it a child!"
Ending of episode Picard: "I won't order a man to hand his child over to the state"
That's what makes old Trek so good: growth
I love how Picard starts annoyed from being left out (like a regular human), and slowly open his mind as he was trained to.
I think that was a purposeful reaction (in meta views). As Data points out, the rest of the crew do not have to inform the captain of their intent to have a child. But this is a little bit different as Picard rightly points out, even if the thought process is transferably comparable. As it's unknown where Lore is right at this moment, Data is as unique as it comes. And to make more goes back to the argument of "Measure of a Man" and then how do they treat them? Are they children or already functional adults? It becomes something more than just cresting another life.
I was gonna say, he acts pissed at first as he knows the trouble that this will make once word gets out. The scientists who were afraid to do experiments on data but now, there's a way to make copies. They will be clawing and draging at lal to conduct tests, and research.
"I have not observed anyone else onboard consulting you about their procreation" -- awkward silence from Counselor Troi
But, very true I am sure lol!
"It's a LIFE Data, it cannot be activated and deactivated simply" Picard, I've never loved you more than right now. Even in the face of what you don't understand, you are on the side of goodness and protection. Even an android life has value, because life has value. Props, mon Capitaine
For an android, deactivation isn't permanent like death is for humans. It can always be reactivated at any time. When Data "killed" Lore, he knew that his brother could return if someone reassembled and reactivated him.
Meanwhile, people irl want abortions left and right......
I wonder if he’s pro abortion
@@cald1421theres an episod about that- and yes he is
The way I feel about this scene is that Picards objections are rooted in his dealing with data as a father, when it comes to human experiences. Neglecting to tell him about having a child is like not telling your faster dad about having a child while you're still growing up.
that thing is Not a child it’s an invention, 5 minutes later…..wait you can’t just kill that what’s wrong with you.
I love seeing Picard struggle through this in the episode and actually grow.
Among other things, the discussion between Picard and Troi is actually a good illustration of the fact that they’re both open-minded professionals.
To seek out new life and new civilizations
Troi : "Why didnt you make it look more human"
Worf **visibly pissed off**
So, essentially Data made a very sophisticated copy of his own neural network, a blank slate facsimile of his "brain", and put it in a new body.
Yeah, that's probably the best way for a one-of-a-kind android to make an offspring. I certainly can't fault his logic.
And as far away as possible from his goal of being more human. Humans not only don't precreate parthenogenetically, i.e. the offspring is not a genetic copy of one parent but a very unique mix of their grandparents' genomes (not parents' actually) both physiologically and psychologically, and of course they aren't a "blank slate" either, regardless of what certain American charlatains try to make us believe. So Data has a very non-human opportunity to shape and steer Lal's skills and abilities without any limitations, unlike human parents who never know in advance in what their children will excel and in what they won't.
And the copy of his brain chose to be female. Does this say something about Data.
@@johnwang9914 IDK, if you have a marble at the top of a precipice and it could go either way, the smallest of actions can affect the outcome greatly. A quantum coin flip.
@@joseph1150 That depends on if it's a path that Data's brain could go or if it's integral to his brain. So what exactly is gender identity, just a path you just happened to follow or something innate to you... The point is, without the body being pre-assigned, a positronic brain as close to Data as possible at that time chose to be female so was the only reason Data is male simply because his body was chosen for him? Would he have chosen differently as his copy did. Nothing says that the decision was just a quantum subatomic flip, just that Lull was given a choice while Data was not.
@@CzechMirco Considering the only other Soong-type android in existence is his brother, I don't think reproducing as humans do, ie. sexually, would be acceptable to Data even if it were physically possible. This form of reproduction is much more in line with an exploration of what it is to be human than that would be, in that he is duplicating himself as best he can and learning from the unfolding consequences.
"You've never been a parent".
A little jab from her season 2 experience.
Data looking at Picard whilst he has his head in his hands will always be funny.
Picard-speak: "Commander Data, at your convenience, I would like to talk with you in my Ready Room."
Standard-speak: "Data. In my Ready Room. NOW."
Standard speak: the way Captain Sisko would have said it
Mean while, picard is out looking for something to beat data with
"If I were damaged or destroyed, I would be lost forever..."
*cut from script* "...unless, somehow, there were like 3 or 4 copies of me."
Loved Captain Picard's double face palms. LOL!
Headpalm, to be precise.
Data had one hell of a point though.
"Does that not define becoming a parent, Captain?"
To him, the creation of law is no different than the birth of a biological child.
But to humans, at least some humans, it will be seen as something very different.
Including, it would seem, Picard.
"You've never been a parent"
Oh but he has.
haha, not at this point.... thats season 6 i think?
@@ghostrider-be9ek Ah you're right, season 5.
@@ghostrider-be9ek If you believe that Picard is really Wesley's father, it happened pre-TNG lol It's a decent theory that explains why Picard always distances himself from Wesley and Dr. Crusher. Supposedly he had an affair with her and that's why he he's so dedicated to her but is racked with guilt and won't pursue her even after her husband/his best friend dies. He cares for Wesley but always gets frustrated with him because he's a manifestation of his shameful acts.
@@RozenHusky I think they were talking about the episode where he lives out the scientists life from the dead civilisation's capsule rather than that, but we've all thought it, especially with his and her will they won't they relationship.
@@RozenHusky ive heard this was part of the potential (not enacted) S1 S2 S3 overarching theme - but I was referring to "inner light" (i think?) where picard lives through an entire lifetime in something like 20 minutes.
That thumbnail and that title together! LOL!
Like it's Picard screaming "I AM 2020! I WILL LET MY CHILD DECIDE!"
It's so him.
"GET THE FUCK OUT OF HERE! YOU'RE GOING TO DESTORY ALL MY LILLIES!" 🔫
I appreciate how this conversation is both incredible deep and pretty funny
"you've never been a parent" even though deanna wasn't a parent herself that was still an epic burn to Picard's attitude 😂
She kind of was in season 2 episode 1
Id love to know what Klingons do to their children
Seriously, that is the one time in this series I wish Picard didn't interrupt
Blah-blah honor blah-blah Kahless blah-blah bat'leth blah-blah-blah...
I don't know but I bet there's a lot of blood, rituals, blood rituals, and several rituals that involve blood.
gong gong gong
I imagine much like the Spartans - but far worse.
3:19: So *that's* where the double-facepalm screenshot comes from
I think what has Picard so hot and bothered is that what data has achieved is exactly what Maddox years ago tried to do with him, which was to create another fully functioning sentient android. He almost lost his right to choose, he's very independence. And now he has beaten Maddox to that very end and without consulting Picard or anyone. Picard, meanwhile, seems to be dealing with a contradiction . To him, data has created a new life and yet he refuses to acknowledge date his perspective of Lal being a child. I don't think I have seen him blow up at data like this in any other episode
Perhaps he was able to predict the wave of stupid that Starfleet Command was going to send his way.
Picard knew exactly what Starfleet was going to do, namely, send an admiral out and order Lal to be turned over. Data made a huge mess which Picard was going to have to deal with. It's also ridiculous to talk about Lal as a child, she was not. She went to work as a cocktail waitress within days. At no point did she behave as a child of any species. Picard eventually conceded that Data had the right to do what he did, and there may even be merit to Data's arguments, even if the consequences could be bad for him, Data and Lal.
@@ssl3546 She was a child, she just wasn’t a child in the sense that you define it. But in their world they meet new and diverse species, so their definition of words must evolve.
"Data... I would like to have been consulted."
Shut it Grandpappy Picard.
And congratulations!
The Picard and Data relationship was the best one on the show
What's brilliant about this scene is that it forces all the philosophies & platitudes about procreation & all it entails to fully examine themselves. And the result, as w/ most things, is..."it's complicated."
This could have been solved if Picard had just spoke his mind at the start. "Can we not call it a child, it's creepy."
Oh Lord! I forgot about that faceplam moment with Picard here. That one tiny sigh speaks volumes to how uncomfortable he is with this.
Double facepalm.
Picard actually makes a fair point. As we see later, he ends up putting his own career on the line for this new 'family'. And as we see in other episodes, with Data's brother, another Data can have disastrous consequences.
My mom is bored and watching the Picard series now.
Spoiler, Data creates and hides a planet full of androids like him but closer to his daughter. The Federation bans the idea of their existence (they didn’t know about the planet) and now the Romulans are hunting them because they have scrolls saying they will be the prelude to the destruction of every organic.
These androids just got the vision apparently every organic species couldn’t process and pretty much called organic racist for assuming they want to destroy them.
So guess what? Now they’re going to destroy ALLL organics. Not just the Romulans for attacking them or the Federation for banning them. Every, single, fleshy being.
Yeah. Soong type androids are dangerous. I bet this is going to end all touchy feely, but this situation is ridiculous.
So can another human though. That doesn't make it worthy of any greater scrutiny than two humans copulating.
@@Norinia That’s not canon.
But it makes zero sense. Why is it Starfleet's business what Data does in his free time? It has already been established Data is a sentient being. I assume Starfleet does not have the authority to kidnap the children of starfleet officers in general... so under what law/authority are they taking Lal from Data?
@@otakurocklee it actually reminds me of modern politics. They make laws and policies for the people to follow but when it no longer suits them, they discard all their fake ideals.
If this aired now, just that one line about letting Lal choose her own sex and appearance would be an unbelievable wall of backlash. This is why I like Star Trek, when it shows ways to be better.
ahead of its time on a lot of topics
First off, it aired in 1990. If there was no backlash then, there wouldn't be now.
Second off (and this is a very important detail you're overlooking) the only reason Lal could choose those things is because she was designed without a given form and thus she actually COULD choose what her gender and species is
But real world humans cannot. Our gender, species and appearance are predetermined by our biology. We don't have a choice.
I am male. I am human. I am Anglo/Latino mix. I will never be female. I will never be a cat. I will never be black. Oh sure I can claim to be all those things every day for the rest of my life, but that doesn't make it factually correct.
I see where your confusion is coming from. You think humans and androids are the same thing. That's nice.
@@johnsmith4811 It's almost as if Data's experience, and science fiction in general, is meant to tell us something about ourselves isn't it.
@@redpillfreedom6692 Biology... does not work the way you think it does.
First of all, race just isn't real in any biological sense. It's culture. And culture is important, but it's still ultimately a product of and defined by humans. See in particular the story of how Irish and Italian people became 'white' as an illustration.
Second, sex isn't as cut and dried as you think it is either. Just off the top of my head, androgen insensitivity can mean someone is genetically 'male' but develops a female body. This isn't confusing or a problem, it is what it is.
Finally, gender. What it means to be a woman, or a man, or something else - and yes, something else is a traditional category in many cultures, this is not a new thing - has meant wildly different things in different times and places. For goodness sake, try explaining the difference between a kilt and a skirt with a straight face. That's because, at the end of the day, it's also just culture.
In THIS time and place some people like you put a lot of baggage on anatomy at birth, and think it should define everything from what clothes you wear to the role you take in relationships. Other people, like me, think that's nonsense and people should do whatever they want if it makes them happy and doesn't hurt anyone else.
One of the few times Picard was wrong. Thankfully he corrects himself by the end.
So, Data made a child for the "Lals".
*groan!*
Well done old chap! I think you killed at least 14 people with that one.
@@naleck2922 If I tried, it would have been genocide.
Data said it best when He said that he had not observed others aboard consulting him about their procreation...and for Starfleet to do what they did was horrid. if Data were capable of emotions, I'm sure he'd had told that admiral to stick in his pips....
TNG predated such current notions of children making those types of life choices.
And unlike humans, androids have instant knowledge from the moment they're born, and can change their bodies without the risk of irreparable damage .
@@tjpprojects7192 they don't "have" knowledge. They have an increased capacity for learning, but they are not created knowing anything.
@@tjpprojects7192 I say this because your comment seems to imply a difference between this fictional Android child's experience and that of a human child. From my view, there are no significant differences besides the potential rate of learning.
@@PedroKing19 how can a child decide anything with a lack of knowledge of practically anything?
A child does not consider that their decisions have ramifications in the future or can have permanent consequences, this is the job of a parent to decide what is best for a child, once a child becomes a teenager is the time for them to explore themselves, at this point in their lives they are at a halfway point between child and adult, they can explore adulthood but revert to childhood if the situation is too much for them.
Its pretty concerning that people in society assume children will always make correct or safe decisions with their lives, or that they're equipped to deal with their choices.
@@the98themperoroftheholybri33 assuming that you do genuinely hold this position, why not force everyone to take puberty blockers until they reach the age of 25, when the human brain stops developing, before they are allowed to go through with their own maturation
"I have decided to let my child choose it's appearance so I have started it off with the appearance of a melted planet of the apes action figure."
I love how Picard automatically respects Lal as a lifeform from the get go.
Seeing this scene, and contrasting it with the scene where the Admiral orders Lal (check spelling) to be turned over to Starfleet custody, and have Picard say no to giving up a child to the state, is a damn good example of Picard's initial bias, eventual acceptance, and great writing of character arcs.
Picard's frustration was not because HE thought Lol was not a child. It was because he knew if starfleet found out Data had made another Data, they would swoop in. If they refer to Lol as an invention, it gives them more time because starfleet would be less interested.
"i have decided to allow my child to choose it's own sex and appearance"
This episode was truly ahead of its time
It's a robot.
@@gavcarlThat's how science fiction (and storytelling in general) usually works, though I doubt the writers had in mind of trans people trying to gain acceptance, but who knows. Do you remember the episode where there was a race of people of only one gender and Riker made out with them. You don't think that was a parable about something?
Data’s offspring was essentially unisex until it chose which way to go. In contrast to this, biological lifeforms cannot chose their sex
Data's "offspring" looks like someone from David Lynch's Dune, who has the "shield" thing stuck to their body.
3:18 should be used more often in conjunction with the face palm meme
Not going to lie that’s why the best line in Star Trek No one else has consulted you on procreation😂😊😊
it's one of the few times i remember picard being genuinely flustered.
03:19
You know Picard is dismayed when he employs the extremely rare (perhaps unique in all _Star Trek_ ) two-handed face palm.
Ah, this is where Picards head in hands clip comes from.
What's so heartbreaking about this episode is that Data was searching for a way for whatever makes him unique and special to endure beyond his demise. In the end, he preserved whatever it was that made Lal (in the language Hindi meaning "Beloved") special and unique so that "she" would endure. It is the first time that Data truly faces the palpable sense of true mortality. This episode made Data's good bye to Picard in "Picard" far more meaningful and beautiful.
0:54 that is terror, for a millisecond, the sort of terror you'd never see from him staring down 100 Borg Cubes.
Hang on Picard. When you were defending Data you said that there are many life forms with great strength and that that is meaningless.
A LOT of people criticizing Piccard's reaction here, but as an archeologist, is it not possible, even likely, that Piccard is familiar with the Terminator franchise? This is the trouble with tribbles but with deadly, emotionless androids...
@@davidtucker9498 Not criticising exactly I just find it weird that her strength is what is focused on.
He's not arguing against Laul's sentience, but against her childhood. At only a few moments old, she in many ways is far more capable than any form of organic life. Offspring? sure, Creation - absolutely, but child seems a stretch. For Picard he's viewing childhood as a stage of life that the android is skipping over, not that the android isn't alive.
@@bskec2177 Childhood is also a stage of life during which the child learns the values of society it lives in, and integrates itself into it. When Data was activated he had little information regarding how humanity works and had to be taught that. While he physically didn't change, one could call that stage of his live "childhood". Having great capabilities doesn't make one an adult. Knowing when, where and how to apply these capabilities does.
I think, more than anything, his reaction stemmed from a fear of what the actual fallout would be from Starfleet getting wind of this (which we ultimately saw). Being angry about this after having been an ally in the previous dispute is more understandable when you think about how much of a near thing Measure of a Man probably was, and how scary it could be to go through that process again with a comparatively blank slate. (And Picard probably also knew exactly who amongst brass would be A Problem, too.)
"This is a LIFE, Data!
It can't be activated or deactivated simply!"
-not so! The Writers killed her before that episode's closing credits!
lol @ everyone having to squeeze past Troi and Picard dominating the corridor as they walk
Omg, I never noticed that! 😂😂😂
Just another stellar example, of some excellent and though provoking subject matter. Combined with some of the most compelling individual performances, on a long running, weekly TV show. This cast, these people, were just going to work each day, and ended up providing us, with some truly rich, and entertaining material, we are still able to enjoy so very much today.. 😊
oh god I just can not get over Troy's early accent compared to later seasons. Im so glad she dropped it.
So this is where the infamous Picard double facepalm came from. I had always wondered but could never remember.
The writers of Picard should’ve watched this episode. Data creates an android and treats it like his child. But in Picard, Data asks Picard to pull the plug on him even knowing there are other androids who are essentially his descendants. This makes no sense. Wouldn’t Data want to meet them?
Yeah, the entire "death is what gives life meaning!! No one wants to live forever" message interspersed is quite annoying to me. At any point, given the choice to live one more day or die now, I imagine most would choose the extra day over and over again forever.
Brent Spiner is in his 70s and probably wanted to give his character a better send off? Honestly it felt rushed like the whole season. They crammed what felt like 26(or more) episodes of material in less than half that. Tv has changed and it would be silly to expect new trek to behave like TNG or even DS9 just as it would have been to expect them to behave like the original series. It still felt jarring though. You can't make an engrossing plot (or characters) by shoehorning in more without time for things to settle. I watched the show and honestly can't remember any of the characters names besides the old cast.
Love how angry Picard looks in the thumbnail as if hes saying, "WWWWHHHAAATTT!!!???" Lmao!!
"Do you wish me to deactivate Lal?"
"Commander, was the trial where I vociferously argued for androids to have the right to life scrubbed from your memory banks??"
“And what Klingons do to their children,”
That line is hilarious for some reason
The double face palm meme.. In all it's glory.
I'm old enough to remember watching these with the audio in sync.
Notice that while Picard vehemently disagrees with Data, he doesn't interfere with Data's (or Lal's) rights as a person.
i love how they use Data to like, brow beat emotional responses with simple, almost childlike logic.
Great line from Data and great clip overall
Picard is such a hypocrite here! *HE* defended Data as being a sentient being, yet...🤔
Meanwhile Data can use a transporter and thus can be perfectly replicated without issue.
Picard sounds like a grandpa the first time he realizes he's going to be a Grandpa.
I think some of topics and concepts covered in this series are so far ahead of their time.
Some humans still (unfortunately) have trouble comprehending the concepts coverd in just these 4 minutes and 41 seconds.
Am loving these clips
"I have not observed anyone else on board consulting you about their procreation, Captain." -Yeah, I think I would rather consider turning to Riker with such matters...
Wish this episode had more references to The Measure Of A Man - Data clearly doesn’t remember Picard having to go to the JAG to stop him from being dismantled
"Producer: Ira Steven Behr, Written by: René Echevarría, Directed by: Jonathan Frakes"... You can't go wrong with such a production team. (Don't forget that most of the DS9 team met for the first time in TNG Season 3...)
0:55 - "Well Beverley has told me some stories about her college days...oops sorry Wesley..."
The zingers aimed at Picard are amazing in this episode. And double facepalm meme!
he had picard all flustered and couldnt understand why
The look on Picard @ 2:14.
if only Star Trek TNG had a clue how this conversation about an Android creation would be like a conversation on steroids in modern western society now.
And I was actually chuckling at Picard's argument. Star Fleet already came to terms with the concept of a "android child" when they allowed Data in Star Fleet to begin with.
True, but Data was unique. If the creation of more like him was to become practical, there was in inherent risk of misuse of that process, such as was shown in Bladerunner - the creation of a "slave" race to do all of humanity's "dirty work", including warfare.
@@whiteknightcat That would be true.
Double facepalm!
We need a record who holds the record for who makes Picard facepalm the most. I bet it's Data
@@DavidAWA my money's on Q
3:18 The gulf between the logic of Data and the reality of the human experience has never been so well illustrated as this moment. Data is quite correct, but so very wrong. Picard is at a loss for words, but he expresses himself eloquently in his wordless exasperation.
@@DavidAWA Or Kyu
My thoughts too! Birth on another meme
TNG was truly stellar. One of the very great TV shows, ever. DS9 only beats it in Trek terms due to its serialisation, pushing the envelope of the "perfect Trek Federation future" and character development.
Wow, a Pickard DOUBLE face-palm. What a treat.
Ah this is where the ultimate 'picard' comes from
Love the double face-palm from Picard. This man is officially done with Data's BS
"You've never been a parent"
Hmm, is that Troi indicating that she has an abandoned child somewhere out there in the universe?
If not, then by what qualification can she say anything about this? And, if so, then, again, by what qualification can she really say anything about this?
There was that time a floating light put itself into her womb to grow rapidly into a child in the span of one episode.
And she's never been a Borg. How is this relevant? The point still stands that Data, previously an unreplicatable being that exceeds natural human capacities by several orders of magnitude, has, without consulting the captain of the ship he is serving under, created another being like himself. Picard was already fending the admiralty off with a stick just trying to keep Data at his post, but this? This is gonna be a fucking bureaucratic nightmare at best.
I actually rather dislike this argument. It's ad hominem with a fresh coat of paint. I have no children, but I've seen plenty of parents doing their job so badly that I know for certain that I would not want to be one of theirs. This stance puts the role of parents up on a pedestal where they can accept no new information or viewpoints, and the rest of us non-breeding peasants just need to bow down.
@@ZeraSeraphim I can understand why Picard would be upset and concerned but I can also see things from Data's POV too. Since he didn't know that Dr. Soong and Lore were still alive, Data believed he was the only android of his kind and didn't want his father's hard work and legacy to be lost when he finally expired since even androids don't live forever.
It's none of Picard's business or Starfleet's, like Data said, no one has to ask Picard when they have a biological child, why not an artificial one?
It's because of the nature of their relationship. Data often comes to Picard for advice, and Picard gladly takes on the role of a surrogate father figure. As a father figure, he is upset that in matters of procreation, he was not consulted first. It wasn't so much that it's Data's business, but rather that Data didn't see Picard as much as a father figure as Picard thought he was to have been consulted in the matter.
3:18 A meme is born
As a matter of plot convenience they need Picard to be thick at this point, but it's not in character. He's never exhibited a failure to respect Data's individual sovereignty nor to regard him as a person.
crazy how much this is relivent in the modern day lol
A great episode. Probably also one of the saddest.
As I watch this I see the process is a Child Process of Windows Explorer
Wow that chat in the corridor looked like the cameraman was having a bad hangover... Or still drunk...
He did it for the lulz!
I see what you did there.
@3:16 Picard REALLY is resisting the epiphany.
The impression I get from this isn't that Picard is mad that Data tried to make a child, it's more like a parent being disappointed that their son went out and got a girl pregnant, and didn't decide to tell them until the gender reveal party.
It's like he probably wouldn't have planned to discourage him from doing it, it was more he could have offered advice, and since Data is something of a child himself, in terms of maturity in these more philosophical "human" matters like this, he wanted to make sure Data and the crew at large would be ready for such an undertaking.
I think that is part of why Picard was so willing to stand up for Data once Starfleet tried to take her away, because even though he was disappointed about the way he went about it, he still supports Data's decision ultimately
Troi continuing to be comedically obtuse saying, "Why didnt you give it a more human look?", after Data has just given the most human perspective he could have at that moment.
There are no aliens or androids or sentient rocks in Star Trek. All of the non-human characters are simply a different perspective on humanity. Star Trek holds a series of mirrors up to us and invites us to draw wisdom from what we see.
However, the characters in Star Trek aren't allowed to be aware of this.
Now go and watch the new Star Trek... you almost have to turn your brain off for it.
Its a shame that critical and high concept conversations are no longer commercially viable.
There was a lot of doubt this show would be commercially viable when it first aired too.
@@NealX_Gaming And yet, it was.