You forgot there is a 3rd character who had a terminal illness. Neji, he had the "standing in front of a log that everyone could have just avoided since they can run at light speed anyways" disease.
@@TerminusTartaros What type of logic is this? An object moves at the speed it is thrown, there is no such thing as "log speed." Given that it was a Juubi attack, it isn't imimaginable that they were moving to fast for Neji to do any other thing than get in the way.
I've always hated the trope because it always felt like a too convenient solution for a character being "too strong". If the character is so strong that you need to kill them off with an illness, maybe they shouldn’t have been that strong.
It works for Kimimaro because his entire character is based around it, but for Itachi, we only learn that he was sick retroactively. And it's unnecessary; all you needed to say was that Itachi wasn't using his full power against Sasuke.
Eh, characters being nerfed or removed for being too strong is pretty common and doesn't at all mean that they should have been weaker. They had a purpose and that has run its course. There's plenty ways and reasons to remove a strong character from the board without anyone surpassing them persé. There's a lot of useful things to be done by that. I get that you don't like how Itachi was handled, but this is not a generalizable writing rule. This is absolutely an ok thing to do, just do it better.
@@theking8347damn. Thats actually so fucking true. Never even thought about it tbh. I just accepted it and moved on. Kishi really could have just left it at itachi not going all out and left it at that
@@zeppelincraft1443 Well, Orochimaru is only "ill" because of the Reaper Death Seal on his arms. It prevented him from using any jutsu that require hand signs, but he only becomes "ill" once every three years, when his body starts rejecting him.
The scene with sasuke's mental break down when obito told him the truth about itachi was already great but if you can add sasuke having flashback of him piercing itachi's chest with chidori almost like kakashi did with rin, the scene will become legendary with sasuke feeling even more guilty of his brother's sacrifice and having more reasons to hate the leaf village.
@@ambientsounds5832He's talking about an alternative where Sasuke actually killed Itachi instead of him dying of some illness. It would've been a stronger scene.
YES FINALLY THANK YOU! I thought I was the only one who saw how lazy Itachi’s sickness really was. I’m also glad you called out the fact that Sasuke should’ve been the one to kill Itachi. This has been bugging me for the longest time and I’m glad someone finally agrees with me!
Actually on second thought, Sasuke could have killed Itachi and it still could have been made clear that Itachi willingly let Sasuke win. But I still like that Sasuke was humbled in the version we got. He was cowering in a corner out of chakra and he had the nerve to say he "killed" Itachi, lol.
Well how exactly was Sasuke really suppose to defeat Itachi? Sasuke doesn't have a MS. Sasuke only escapes itachis genjutsu because he's golding back. Itachi literally tanks a direct hit from Sasuke's strongest attack Kirin and still summons a Sussano directly after just to spit in his little brothers face. Think about that, Itacji doesn't even bother to summon his Sussanoo to defend against Kirin, he just tanks the attack and summons it after. How exactly was Sasuke suppose to defeat Itachi?
@@Sword_of_Flamesat least in that case sasuke doesn’t really claim victory. He’s up front about the fact that he only succeeded because orochimaru was basically dying already
The Naruto series is infamous for letting potential squandered. - Itachi - every female characters - Rock Lee - seven swordsmen of the mist - Kinimaru - Hyuga clan
Seven swordsman were introduced in the last arc and not all female characters in Naruto are bad tusnade and that old woman that was with sakura in the gara rescue arc and konan and Naruto mother and it's issues in the anime and Itachi arc was done and neji and others their arc where done so they were supposed to die in the sasuke rescue arc but the editor forced kishimoto to keep them alive just like guy
And then they give Naruto and Sasuke TOO much potential. Literally Shikamaru is the only character to make it to the end of the series with his potential realized but not overdone.
@@TinotendaHunda that was the original idea kishimoto wanted to have more arc before the chunin exam like visiting each village but the editor forced him to cut down
Yoriichi managed to live until he was 85 with the Demon Slayer Mark, while most die before they are 25. If you ask me, being able to live up to 85 back then on its own was quite a feat.
Similar to Kimimaro, he lived through the curse of Demon Slaying Mark, and lived older than most people without Demon Slaying Mark. He also died right before killing Kokushibo out of old age. It is basically epic version of Kimimaro's backstory. Of course, he isn't an actual sick genius, but this is an alternative usage of that trope.
That last scene of the fight, were itachi walks towards Sasuke, touches his head and dies could be so much better if he had a massive chidori hole in his chest
Nagato kind of as well, but I believe it was the Rinnegan and the Gedo Mazo statue that had a negative effect on his health and appearance. He wasn’t ill in the same way as Itachi or Kimimaro.
Nagato totally counts. He would have been so much stronger if he had legs. He lost full use of his legs to Hanzo thus he was never at full power. The Six Paths of Pain was his workaround but it's heavily implied he would have been stronger with legs.
I suspect Nagato got sick because of his abuse of his Rinnegan early on. The Outer Path i suspect. Vitality lost with the Outer Path is lost forever, so his body becomes permanently weaker. Weaker immunity, weaker bones, slower regeneration etc.
I would've loved for Sasuke to actually kill Itachi. He also never should've forgiven Itachi for what he did. Him understanding why but still resenting him is more interesting imo.
@@Lumina178, lol, for real. He hid 31 Boruto-related videos.... I remember that video about Eida, that one about Rasengan Uzuhiko and the recent one about everything good in Boruto.
I would give Kimimaru a pass for the reason that his sickness might have been tied to his bloodline limit. In the Tsunade arc, Shizune stated that her special healing tech rapidly generate new cell but that has a limit and shortens her life. And Kimimaru basically uses his body to produce bones stronger than steel. And he also rips his body apart every time he pulls his bones out. It's just unfortunate that it was so abrupt and without buildup.
As much as I like itachi overall (not so much for kimimaru), the trope is just morbidly lazy, he made both of them extremely strong compared to rest of the cast. So he gave them illness to just kill off such OP characters at any moment he needs to without some plot shenanigans. He wanted to show off how long way to go MC have without dealing with consequences. He can just showcase a great powergap and then use illness so MCs wont die. Also, the reason behind that is to have antagonist dead, without getting MCs' hands dirty. Just extremely lazy setup used so you don't have to explain a lot things and just say, "well it's becasue of illness".
The sick trope has to be hinted at in the beginning of the characters introduction otherwise it falls miserably. Giving a character a sickness death out of nowhere is lazy writing. Too damn powerful? Let's give an excuse for god to kill them off! Hence the sickness trope. Sickness trope done right is Jushiro Ukitake from Bleach. Having a character dying from an illness mid-to-end fight is just pathetic. Dying in the service of a god is soo much better.
Ukitake is trash. Not only this guy lost absolutely all his fights but his sacrifice isethe most pathetic I have ever seen. He litteraly became an arm out of nowhere and it was useful for Ywatch because he stole his power. Even dead, he was more useful for the villains😂
The thing is with kimimaros it was heavily implied that it was overuse of the curse mark that caused his health to deteriorate and it was a good symbol and warning of what the power Sasuke was willing to tap into could do to you. Before that in part 1 we see Itachi while using mangekyou techniques gets extremely fatigued and it’s implied again in the part 2 fight that the overuse of mangekyou is what’s killing him, once again pushing that narrative that the pursuit of extreme power will end up killing Sasuke, but then it’s all just thrown away when Obito is like lol he had ninja aids and it’s just another great narrative point that’s the thrown away in the story for no reason.
He escapes death by transferring his soul to another vessel. The only thing that interested him about Kimimaro was his body. Sharing his immortality technique preserves Kimimaro’s soul, not his body, and Orochimaru has no interest in that. No point.
Remember guys, Edo Itachi had the option to stay around because he had control over Kabutos Jutsu, yet still chose to go to the after life. Dieing in front of Sasuke yet again. Dude literally has a messiah complex XD.
Itachi has no desire to live anymore after all of the pain he had to go through, especially since he is also aware as well that he had done unforgivable things & can never move on from it. Also, i think the main reasons for this are that, he had probably thought that all Edo Tensei including Madara would finally ascend back to the afterlife & that Sasuke can already protect himself much more than Itachi can protect him. Especially now that during that time, Sasuke already has an EMS. He was right about Sasuke there but wrong about Madara.
With blindness alone Itachi could be nerfed enough to make his fight against Sasuke relevant; also considering he doesnt wanna kill Sasuke, just test his strength among other goals. In the end Itachi could get rid of Orochimaru & have a false trade with Sasuke to make him fatally wound him as he goes blind and still have the iconic tap on the forehead while Sasuke’s kunai is in his stomach
I heard that she and sakura were supposed to have fight in the pain arc but the editor was rushing him to end because of time it's not the first time that kishimoto ideas were cut down like original he wanted to have more arc but the editor forced to cut down
Itachi should have been killed by Sasuke's chidori and not some stupid disease and he could have awakened the MS that way since it's more in line with the lore.
@@breathair69420 Even Sasuke's Kirin did nothing and that his strongest move yet,Sasuke was trained by Orochimaru but he clearly nothing compared to Itachi,Kishimoto built Itachi up to be way too powerful and wrote himself into a corner.
I think it would've been better for Sasuke's character if he simply never got the MS. Having him get it undermines his decision at the end of the Valley of the End fight, where he refuses to kill his best friend (Naruto), rejecting the Mangekyo Sharingan and vowing to get stronger another way.
its simple way of building up a characters to be resilient while making him a threat early only to retcon the reason why a weaker character can beat him
I think a great way this trope was implemented was in HxH with Kurapica's emperor time, because the "sickness" here is self-inflicted as the more he uses it the shorter his life becomes
I personally can accept Kimimaro's fate much easier than Itachi's. It was hinted at that the condition Kimimaro had was something related to his blood line plus it also highlighted immerse danger Sasuke would step in. If Orochimaru discarded his former number 1 employee that easily, what does that hint for Sasuke's fate? It created further stress and proof that being the most valuable sacrifise piece for Orochimaru wasn't offering any protection at all and they would be discarded just as easily as anyone else. The condition was outlined well before, during and after. Now Itachi's condition felt like a copout because we got the explanation AFTER and it just made sure that Sasuke's hands remained clean. "See, he didn't really kill his older brother!" kinda scenario. It also felt like the pretext before the fight wasn't strong enough. Kishimoto wants to point to original Naruto series how Itachi loved Sasuke etc but I don't view it in a same way. When he put Sasuke in genjutsu realm, he could have immediadly accidentally killed Sasuke. It was way too risky move to use considering the state he left Kakashi as well. I feel like whole Itachi's motives were just another case of a retcon that he wanted his audience to eat up. I have always liked his character but I just don't think his motives were always meant to be the same.
in the filler arc there's also Ameringo Yuri (one of the seven swordsmen) who was invincible but died of an illness. This was one of the worst usage of that trope.
I personally think Kimimaro’s sickness was based around his Kekkei Genkai. Like with each bone he used and replaced he was using up important nutrients that gave him a bone related disease, like those ones as a result of low calcium that result in the disruption of normal bodily functions, especially regarding the heart through its cardiac cells. That would make sense and be super sad as his whole life, from his clan to Orochimaru, they were literally working him to death. As for Itachi, best I could think of was consumption. What’s really sad is that there are ways to treat and cure these diseases which makes them even sadder with what it interprets for these two, as it implies that Orochimaru could have saved Kimimaro’s life but because of the major drawback of his Kekkei Genkai he would see it as a waste and only find use for him in one final mission instead, and Itachi actually could have treated his disease earlier but chose not to so Sasuke could have an edge in their battle and successfully kill him. It just puts a new layer of intrigue and depression to things that actually would have made the trope better if Kishimoto had thought of that conclusion.
Itachi in general is an incoherent character. Kishi just kept adding more stuff to him that make no sense either thematically or narratively or logically.
bro just imagine if they allowed kimimaru to progress in the story similar to the konaha 13 , bro he would have been OP asf and then just imagine that times ten like imagine bro being a jinchuriki ?? omg its over specifically hanz's tailed beast ! or the monkey one lol those are really the only ones I could see him with aside from the nine tails. man I miss kimimaru rip big bro
I think this illness was meant to invoke further sympathy for itachi. He would still be doomed even if he walked away from all of that political shit and guilt.
You're thinking it the wrong way, Sasuke actually killing Itachi with his own hands makes no sense, for Itachi has not sinned against Sasuke, but Itachi's bodily disease makes total sense for that's the punishment one has to bear for slaying his own flesh. Both cases of "Sick Genius trope" are written well by Kishimoto.
There would not really be an organic way for Itachi to touch Sasuke's forehead which is thematic in it of itself and have Sasuke kill him since that would mean Sasuke (seemingly) had the upper hand. Sasuke does actually feel like he contributed to Itachi's death since that is what awakened his Mangekyō, so it being "cheap" does not affect his character from his perspective.
I know it's kind of a lazy trope, but it is kind of interesting how many genius irl get rare diseases or just die too early. Like it's not a large number, but the fact that it's more than a handful is odd
I just had an idea to introduce kimmimaru earlier. I really like Kimmimaru as a character but I understand why some think he was introduced too late. In my rewrite Kimmimaru and kabuto are on the same level of rank in Orochimaru's inner circle. In the rewrite, Kimmimaru is not sick at all. Instead, while the sound ninja four are helping orochimaru destroy the leaf and delivering sasuke, Kimmimaru is actually looking for Tsunade and tracking her movements. Here, Orochimaru trusted Kimmimaru enough to follow and report Tsunades whereabouts and maybe defend himself if nessecary. (maybe Orochimaru could use Tsunades abilities for something else).This could also explain how Kabuto and Orochimaru could find Tsunade in the Tsunade arc. Instead of dying from his sickness, Kimmimaru pushes his curse mark to the limit because of garra and Lee and dies.
Trying to avoid tropes is a trope in itself. Tropes are tools, not pitfalls, so just make sure your story is well written and there should be no problem.
Exactly what people above said, but also this video is a perfect demonstration that tropes can be good for the story if pulled well. The Kimimaro part was an example of a trope pulled out well.
The trope serves it purpose in the story or is an excuse for lacking writing creativity of the author. Like Kishimoto said Shikamaru was too smart for his own writing capabilities.
To be fair, that's a problem any writer has. Nobody is a 200 IQ genius. But you don't need to be smart to write a smart character the same way you don't need to be a wizard to write a wizard. It's like a magic trick; the character doesn't need to actually be smart, you just need to convince the audience that they are.
@@theking8347 That's absolutely right. For me Shikamaru vs Temari and Hidan was impressiv and convincing, but his current actions - na... Also ill Kimmimaru vs Genin and ill Itachi lacking Hashirama cells like Obito was perfectly fitting and convincing for me.
Itachi, kimmimaro, the one dude from code geass, Jinbei I think it was, heck irl there was a great old west gunslinger Doc holiday who only died from illness despite all the shootouts he was in.
After they finished with Naruto the series, they knew they had the Nerf Itachi so bad, they made the MS have a blindness effect and bro became sick, like dang he went from defeating entire clans to barely standing💀
Just in case you don't mention it. Toki from fist of the north star is this type of character as well. If he didnt get radiation sickness, he would've been the next successor of Hokuto Skinken instead of the protagonsit kenshiro.
I'd make Sasuke give Itachi the killing blow, not final... I think the final scene should still be maintained for effect. He had all the power and (at the time) confusingly sealed Orichimaru and went straight for the eyes... only for a final twist. If Sasuke just stabs him the moment he arrives and I dunno, Itachi smiles (like it doesn't matter, too much power) and then the final twist with the forehead touch, that could work but Sasuke needed to be powerless in the end. So I think a second lethal blow after the rigged shuriken but before amaterasu. Remember Itachi only needs to pretend to be unstoppable then die, he can tank a hole in the chest for a minute.
God, this is seriously so annoying because it’s automatically a free win button for whoever fights them. Jeez, if they’re gonna pull this trope off, at least give us one who dies after killing his opponents, giving him one last victory before he collapses.
Wasnt really that Itachi just depleted his chakra costantly using the Mangekyou that just cause this illness to appear, it's stated that if You use all of Your chakra You die, so i tought that he just succumbed to his injuries for constant use of Mangekyou and depleting his chakra
To be honest i hate this trope in all anime. In slice of life we already know they don't pass away so it's just a waste of time Battle shounen they are either invincible or will pass out at random. It's basically a writer cop out. Only time this can work is when the character gets this disease and actually reacts to it like in tales of the abyss where Luke could go at any moment after wanting to sacrifice himself showing he appreciates life and every second he is alive now. That's when it works
Well about him planing to die against Sasuke, it is very likely he planned that the entire time. So when he was traumatizing him as a child he was doing it with that end goal in mind. That would mean he planned to die back then too. And he probably didn't know he was going to die back then because the illness had something to do with his mangekyo sharingan, which he had hardly used at that time, if he even did. I also believe he would have sacrificed himself regardless, no way he's killing Sasuke. Maybe that's why the thought of the illness taking away from the sacrifice never crossed my mind. Also most people think it might have been a retcon because Itachi was unneccesarily brutal towards Sasuke, especially when he used Tsukuyomi.
but at the end of the fight, Sasuke was out of Chakra. and when he tried to attack Itachi with his sword, his Susanoo completely repelled it. "oh, what if Sasuke killed a healthy Itachi? it would've been so much more traumatic for him." well sure. but Sasuke literally could not do it. the whole point of Itachi giving himself the pneumonia was to ensure his own death. had he remained healthy, he would have had to hold back against Sasuke. but Sasuke would've been able to tell. he would've confronted him about this during the fight. "brother. why are you holding back against me?! i've fostered my hatred just like you asked!!" what could Itachi say in this moment? he could lie, but Sasuke would know. "don't give me that CRAP Itachi!!" or he could tell him the truth. but then Sasuke would've questioned him about it. and he may even stop fighting him. or he might kill him out of rage, but it wouldn't've been an honest death. Itachi would've had to open his arms to let Sasuke slash him. but then he couldn't've implanted Ameterasu into his eye. Sasuke may have even destroyed his body, and the whole hideout again; out of rage. but that would mean Sasuke could never use his eyes to create the Eternal Mangekyo Sharingan. also means the crow with Shisuis eye would never have gotten activated, although this ended up happening anyways and it ended up benefitting Itachi. so that's kinda mute. the point is: Itachi remaining healthy would've utterly gone against his whole plan. it was never an option. and Sasuke could not have defeated Itachi in combat either. Itachi was clearly still stronger than Sasuke at this point in the story. even with the illness.
to be honest the disease made sense, Itachi Uchiha has shown guilt towards his actions a long time before the fight against Sasuke and we even get to see how Itachi is sitting outside in the Rain thinking about what could have been and about Sasuke and what hes up to right now etc. now i want you to sit outside while its raining evry damn time with nothing but a weird cloth-cloak and see what you'll be getting cause of that. so that disease was most likely from him having all this guilt inside of him and all the trauma he went through, all you really covered was the Fight and blablabla, but never really went into HOW Itachi might have gotten the disease and its pretty obvious that he has gotten it from Rainy Weather. Kisame even told Itachi that its not good that hes sitting outside in the Rain for so long evrytime, but Itachi didnt care about that as he clearly felt at peace whenever it Rained and he was able to be in it to think about things that bothered him. which btw is pretty human, alot of people feel happier when its raining and actually feel much better when sleeping as it rains. so it could also be that Itachi has slept in the Rain multiple times, which is ofcourse also nothing that keeps you healthy, thus his Disease really comes from all the Rain he sat and may have slept through. sure the fight with him having a disease seems a bit crappy written, but then again it makes total sense and Sasuke def. didnt know about Itachi's disease, so if he dies in the hands of Sasuke, Sasuke would think that Itachi is an Evil Person and Sasuke is now able to return to the Village, which ofcourse completely fn failed when Obito interrupted and told Sasuke all about Itachis past. which in that perspective is greatly written due to the fact that it answers as to why Obito didnt Attack the Leaf Village when Itachi was still Alive as they had a contract with each other pretty much that Konoha will be left unharmed as long as Itachi is alive and the fact that the Amaterasu suddenly attacks Obito makes it way more obvious that Itachi never trusted Obito, that could have not been written that way if Itachi was healthy and Sasuke beats a Healthy Itachi. the aftermath is what makes the Story with Itachi and his disease way better, its about Sasuke but its also about keeping Sasuke away from Obito and the reason as to why Itachi wants to be killed by Sasuke, he wanted to die by the hands of Sasuke, getting rid of Orochimaru and at the same time get the Amaterasu implanted into Sasuke so if Obito ever stands infront of Sasuke, that the Amaterasu would kill Obito. tho it also shows that as smart as Itachi is, he still didnt know evrything due to the fact that Obito is able to get rid of the Amaterasu with his Kamui, something Itachi didnt know about. there is plenty of things that you can name that makes Itachis disease totally plausable and actually amazing writing.
I honestly don't think it'll change Sasukes reaction/emotional turmoil whether Itachi died from the illness or not. Sasuke was the one to push Itachi so far to the point the illness was able to off him, it's not like Sasuke or anyone would say "no he didn't kill Itachi, it was entirely because of the illness" Think of it like this, you're fighting an old man and as you do he shows clear signs of being ill but you don't care and keep going until he has a heart attack then poof he's dead. Would on lookers and yourself say "it was the heart attack that killed him" no you wouldn't because you were the driving factor pushing a clearly sick person passed the sick body's limit that set off a chain reaction. If anything the fact Itachi's last act alive was his forehead tap that was synonymous of the brotherly bond they once had was probably far more emotionally impactful for Sasuke than actually getting the final blow. I think none of it should at all be changed, the final blow isn't going to give us anymore impact
I actually think Itachi’s illness was really well done.. it’s built up to showcase the VAST difference between Itachi & sasuke the man was mortally ill, blind AND holding back yet gave sasuke the fight of his life and bodied orochimaru as a side quest mid fight lol Thematically it’s meant to showcase that if Itachi was truly evil… sasuke was not walking away from that fight which really hammers home what an incredible man & brother Itachi was he had all this power, he could have been one of the greatest shinobi the leaf had ever seen and he threw it all away for sasuke for his little brother he protected above all else. Basically it’s easy to say oh he held back and say sasuke was lucky but it really shows how powerful Itachi was when you realise he was dying, blind & holding back
This guy is a Sasuke fan, of course he doesn't understand it lmao. I don't know why I still watch him. But yeah, Itachi was extremely strong, that's why Kishimoto had to dispose of him quickly, because he wouldn't have let Sasuke be the star of the show.
We get massive foreshadow for Itachi's sickness back in the 1st season, stating that bro WASN'T okay, lol. The exact moment when Kisame says Itachi shouldn't use sharingan no more, 'cuz it's really goes bad for his eyes, wtff.
Itachi and Kimimaro's illnesses, when combined with Naruto and Sasuke's explosive growth in Shippuden (especially in comparison with Part 1), lend credence to the idea that Itachi and Kimimaro were the original Indra and Asura reincarnates of their generation, but became terminally ill upon losing the transmigrant portions of their respective souls. If we think about it, the level of genius and ability both had shown was what some would consider to be unnatural (with Itachi not really even needing to be trained) and would only make sense if both had knowledge from past lives. Furthermore, Orochimaru had little interest in the base Sharingan (he showed no interest in Kakashi and only BECAME interested in Sasuke's potential upon seeing that Indra's chakra might migrate into Sasuke), but instead truly wanted the ability to use all jutsu---the key to doing so being the Rinnegan/Yin-Yang Release, which could only be obtained via the Indra/Asura reincarnates. I think this would be a clever plot twist, especially if additional Byakugan-related powers (specifically the Gokei Byakugan and an improved Tenseigan with a system of anti-chakra from the fanfic White Eyes), additional lore surrounding the Hyuga and possibly Kaguya clans (specifically the Hyuga (and possibly Kaguya) being either from the Moon or descended from people who lived on the Moon), and lore surrounding the Susano'o spirit weapons, Samehada, and tools of the Sage of Six Paths could be implemented. This would make each major character have a purpose by making the story effectively a race to unlock the universe's secrets, and if proper foreshadowing could be done, it would even, in my humble opinion, fix Kaguya Otsutsuki by making her story make sense within the universe, given the wasted potential that exists with her (I would actually agree with Ser Serendipity and disagree with DygoKnight about some of Naruto's villains, in that I don't really find Madara especially compelling as the main villain (but seeing him have to work with the protagonists would be really cool), and I find the concepts that went into Kaguya Otsutsuki to be genuinely interesting, if rushed and poorly implemented).
Also it kinda sucks because sasuke got his ass handed to him and was running away from itachi because he knew better than anyone how fucked he was only to die inmediately after felt kishimoto fucking with us like oooh look if itachi was healthy sasuke would have no chance against his brother and shit
Yoriichi wasn't a sick genius. Fact that he died of old age not of sickness or enemy was intentional. To show that even the most outstanding, lucky and brilliant of humans will inevitably die because of aging. The main conflict of this series is how do grapple with this, because if the greatest couldn't survive old age what hope do others have.
Aw man, imagine if after the power transfer, Sasuke immediately amateratsu Itachi? Killing Itachi with his own signature Jutsu. Would Sasuke get revenge fueled manic as he watches itachi writhe in agony? Would he feel empty and hollow, like his duty is done? Or even payoff Kakashi's lesson about the Chidori is an assassination jutsu and how one should never want to point that at a comrade, or someone close to you. Giving Sasuke a similar trauma to his Sensei related to their Mangekyo awakenings.
@@charnalk5572 His arms did matter, he was also dying only reason most people took advantage. Sasuke, pain and itachi would of never had the upper hand if orochimaru was healthy and had his arms. War arc Orochimaru would of smoked all of them if he was healthy Shisui was also poisoned and got ambushed.
@@orochimarupr Itachi no diffed a healthy, with both his arm's soul(whatever that's supposed to mean), Orochimaru when he was like a teen (14 yo I believe?). Sasuke did take advantage of Orochimaru's lowest point, but that had nothing to do with his arms. He was dying because his vessel was an imperfect one, not because of his arms (and he exerted himself against 4 tails Naruto). I was a bit disingenuous when saying his arms barely mattered, since he couldn't use specific justsu that require hand signs. He lost in versatility, but he was still way more versatile than 99.99% of every other characters and still had access to his strongest form (Hydra, Yamata No Orochi thing, and still got no diffed by a blind Itachi). Shisui is honestly a Mcdonald toy at this point, we don't even know how he actually died and when the Uchiha police found his corpse they never talked about poisoning (and they had evidence to actually suspect Itachi apparently, but idk in the manga we only see 1 panel of Shisui without either the context of his death. The Itachi novel was stated by the actual author that is nothing but a spin off, and should not be used as canon material, I forgot her user name but I think she still has the tweet up).
@@charnalk5572 It was literally stated that he was poisoned that's the only reason danzo even defeated him. Itachi never fought prime focused orochimaru, he fought an evil an ambitious one that didn't take anything seriously. Prime vs prime orochimaru smokes itachi. Orochimaru having his hands sealed away prevents him from going all out. Like I said if he had his arms against naruto or Sasuke it would of been a different story. I never said he was dying because of his arms but he lost because of it The second time although itachi was blind, orochimaru was in worst condition and couldn't even use his hands only reason itachi was able to seal him. It was literally a 20% itachi vs a 5% orochimaru that's not really impressive.
@@orochimarupr Nothing was ever stated about how Danzo fought Shisui, only that he stole his right eye. People present the while poison thing as canon because it makes the character look the best out of it (even though he's still featless anyway, all we know is that his body flicker was the best thing ever I guess). Could've been anything, like even a full on jumping to just straight up a younger Danzo being a God at Taijutsu who cares. Again, Itachi and Orochimaru already fought even before the series started, and Orochimaru by his own admission is far too weak to even attempt a surprise attack on Itachi (and he wasn't even aware of anything more than his base sharingan). Itachi was even in a worse state, both blind and his body was actively failing out and heavily damaged by the Kirin (it actually destroyed his Susanoo, he even states that he would've died otherwise).
Lee was supposed to die there and should have die but he was too pupuler like guy so not just lee neji and others were there arc were done and were supposed to die in this arc but they were pupuler and the editor forced kishimoto to keep them alive so it's the editor fault
@@justinarzola4584 killing him there would have been better way to end his arc because kishimoto won't have enough time to focus on every single character and draw look at hiding arc kishimoto wanted that arc to be longer but the editor was rushing to end and he was in the hospital remember he was writing in the weekly manga if Naruto was a monthly manga it will be much better
Correction: it's done 3 times in the Naruto verse. Nagato is a genius who lost his legs. Thus he isn't nearly as strong as he's "supposed" to be and thus he uses the Six Paths of Pain instead. If he had his legs he could go into battle using all 6 paths from his own body.
I think it could work in a way that hashirama kind of did. A being super op that protect the status quo just by existing and the second he dies the safety blanket is off and the world goes to crap and the hyena surrounding the heroes then Start attacking however i think it’s never really presented like that The only similar Thing is in the manga ares
I would argue 3 times with the 3rd being nagato who is also pretty gimped as far as his full potential goes. I guess he wasn't so much sick as he was a cripple though. But if the war arc is anything to go by he would have been a beast had he not been crippled and all it took was him absorbing some bijuu chakra...and when you consider all the bijuu they captured its kinda strange he didn't other then derp plot. Honestly I don't think naruto would have been able to handle him at that point in time.
This is true in real life too, if you look at Brazilian Ronaldo carrear, he was to good to be real and life gave him so many injuries to be fair with the others
Well to be honest Dygoknight if it was such a bad trope how would you have Kimimaro and Itachi beaten by their respective opponents other than illness there was no other way to beat them because Itachi and Kimimaro were just so unbelievably more stronger than their opponents that it just was not fair so how would you write their defeats?
A writer can find a way for the outcome of battles to change, they don't care about fans power scaling. A big problem for why this trope exists in the first place is the strenuous deadlines present in the manga industry that don't allow a writer to flesh out a better way to tell the story. Usually the first thing they put to page is the one that's published (obviously editors are involved), because they've got to send it off and get to work on the next chapter.
Where in Naruto does it say Kimimaro was an all powerful genius? I mean, yeah he's stronger than most at the time but I don't recall him being anything other than that. You also have to remember he's fighting children. He's going to be a lot stronger just in that regard alone. Compare Kimimaro to anyone from Shippuden and be prepared to be underwhelmed. When Kimimaro fought Naruto, Gara, and Rock Lee he looked to be around the same age as Naruto and co are in Shippuden. Not so strong or smart now, is he? He's at best middle tier when talking comparatively to people his own age. Rock Lee, Gara and Naruto would all wipe the floor with him without trying if they all fought at their peaks.
@@theking8347 He was present. The fight takes place off screen so we don't know how much help he even gave if at all. I don't think orochimaru would need help to take down the 4th Kazekage considering he already had the 3rd Kazekage as an edo tensi clone. The 3rd was considered far stronger. Gaara took down the 4th without an issue and no way Gaara could take Orochimaru.
I love this trope because it hits you with that bit of reality. Even in a world full of magic, the smartest person in the world can still be cut down by nature, cause life doesn't give a shit. Just like in real life, there are just illnesses that are incurable and barely treatable. Cancer even with todays technology is a daunting illness you have little chances to pull through, and even when you recover, it can still return. Why not in a fantastical world some kind of curse can fuck someone over hard and with no cure.
The smartest person would be orochimaru. And he's still kickin it in boruto. By being the smartest he increased his natural lifespan through various methods. Itachi accepted his death instead of trying to prolong it.
My man, if you're gonna include a manga spoiler for demon Slayer or anything else please put a spoiler warning, It doesn't matter how small or insignificant or stupid the spoiler is, always include a warning, even if it's just the name of a character
I suspect Kimimaro had to go because of Kaguya. Logically his power ceiling would likely have to scale to the ranges of Naruto, Sasuke level if he existed. Cope theory.
@@theking8347 They do mention Kimmimaro being part of the '"Kaguya Clan"( This can be easily forgotten if you don't pay attention in hindsight), however it can be argued only the clan name was thought up at the time and not the character herself, Kaguya even has the bone manipulation so I don't know if this was just coincidence or Kishimoto really thought back to that.
I think the "A Genius in spite of their illness" and "A Terminally Ill Genius" tropes are two completely different things, but media and authors have mixed up the two in order to cover up poor writing or an easy way to invoke the same feeling.
Why does no one pay attention to or Remember the Ultra Humanite from the Superman Comics? Dude was established to be a Frail Disabled Mastermind who fought the Man of Steel but No....Overtime he was forgotten by History in Favor of Lex Luthor and...for some reason they Put his Brain into a White Gorilla making him Gorilla Grodd's Palette Swap!
There's a legitimate chance bone Orochimaru would have been stronger than Sharingan wielding Orochimaru, and there are very very few other clans I could say that about.
Showing Yoriichi is the worst example. Dude wasn't sick at all. In fact, he literally had a mark that causes any other person ever to pass on early if they have it, but he is the only one this doesn't apply to and he lives a full, natural life.
As an Itachi fanboy here, i don't think that'd be plausible since Madara has battle experience but at least Itachi wouldn't be easily falling off thanks to the unique divine weapons he possessed.
![Slipknot - Unsainted [OFFICIAL VIDEO]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/VpATBBRajP8/mqdefault.jpg)
![Slipknot - Unsainted [OFFICIAL VIDEO]](/img/tr.png)
You forgot there is a 3rd character who had a terminal illness.
Neji, he had the "standing in front of a log that everyone could have just avoided since they can run at light speed anyways" disease.
You're assuming the logs weren't moving faster than that.
@@pkj2148 ofc they don't. Logs are not Ninjas. Therefore Logs can only move at log speed.
@@pkj2148 guy has byakugan
@@TerminusTartaroslog speed is wild
@@TerminusTartaros What type of logic is this? An object moves at the speed it is thrown, there is no such thing as "log speed." Given that it was a Juubi attack, it isn't imimaginable that they were moving to fast for Neji to do any other thing than get in the way.
I've always hated the trope because it always felt like a too convenient solution for a character being "too strong". If the character is so strong that you need to kill them off with an illness, maybe they shouldn’t have been that strong.
It works for Kimimaro because his entire character is based around it, but for Itachi, we only learn that he was sick retroactively. And it's unnecessary; all you needed to say was that Itachi wasn't using his full power against Sasuke.
Eh, characters being nerfed or removed for being too strong is pretty common and doesn't at all mean that they should have been weaker. They had a purpose and that has run its course. There's plenty ways and reasons to remove a strong character from the board without anyone surpassing them persé. There's a lot of useful things to be done by that.
I get that you don't like how Itachi was handled, but this is not a generalizable writing rule. This is absolutely an ok thing to do, just do it better.
@@theking8347damn. Thats actually so fucking true. Never even thought about it tbh. I just accepted it and moved on. Kishi really could have just left it at itachi not going all out and left it at that
Even Orochimaru and Pain are terminally ill. Like REALLY terminally ill.
@@zeppelincraft1443 Well, Orochimaru is only "ill" because of the Reaper Death Seal on his arms. It prevented him from using any jutsu that require hand signs, but he only becomes "ill" once every three years, when his body starts rejecting him.
The scene with sasuke's mental break down when obito told him the truth about itachi was already great but if you can add sasuke having flashback of him piercing itachi's chest with chidori almost like kakashi did with rin, the scene will become legendary with sasuke feeling even more guilty of his brother's sacrifice and having more reasons to hate the leaf village.
huh!? sasuke didnt kill itachi. why would he remember piercing him with chidori.
@@ambientsounds5832He's talking about an alternative where Sasuke actually killed Itachi instead of him dying of some illness. It would've been a stronger scene.
whoops make sense. my bad lol@@israelmatulimubalama1496
Cope
itachi sucks imagine feeling guilty cuz of that guy
YES FINALLY THANK YOU! I thought I was the only one who saw how lazy Itachi’s sickness really was. I’m also glad you called out the fact that Sasuke should’ve been the one to kill Itachi. This has been bugging me for the longest time and I’m glad someone finally agrees with me!
Actually on second thought, Sasuke could have killed Itachi and it still could have been made clear that Itachi willingly let Sasuke win. But I still like that Sasuke was humbled in the version we got. He was cowering in a corner out of chakra and he had the nerve to say he "killed" Itachi, lol.
Orochimaru was also on his death bed when Sasuke killed him
Well how exactly was Sasuke really suppose to defeat Itachi? Sasuke doesn't have a MS. Sasuke only escapes itachis genjutsu because he's golding back. Itachi literally tanks a direct hit from Sasuke's strongest attack Kirin and still summons a Sussano directly after just to spit in his little brothers face.
Think about that, Itacji doesn't even bother to summon his Sussanoo to defend against Kirin, he just tanks the attack and summons it after.
How exactly was Sasuke suppose to defeat Itachi?
@@The_Average_Ragebait_Borutard Boruto is terrible, bro. Nobody is watching that over Naruto and Shippuden.
@@Sword_of_Flamesat least in that case sasuke doesn’t really claim victory. He’s up front about the fact that he only succeeded because orochimaru was basically dying already
The Naruto series is infamous for letting potential squandered.
- Itachi
- every female characters
- Rock Lee
- seven swordsmen of the mist
- Kinimaru
- Hyuga clan
Seven swordsman were introduced in the last arc and not all female characters in Naruto are bad tusnade and that old woman that was with sakura in the gara rescue arc and konan and Naruto mother and it's issues in the anime and Itachi arc was done and neji and others their arc where done so they were supposed to die in the sasuke rescue arc but the editor forced kishimoto to keep them alive just like guy
And then they give Naruto and Sasuke TOO much potential. Literally Shikamaru is the only character to make it to the end of the series with his potential realized but not overdone.
@@MrKingYuji most of the side characters like neji arc were done and killing in part one would have been great
You forgot the entire stone village also
@@TinotendaHunda that was the original idea kishimoto wanted to have more arc before the chunin exam like visiting each village but the editor forced him to cut down
Showing the demon slayer god who died at 85 is wild and he out lasted his 100 year old brother in battle
Yoriichi managed to live until he was 85 with the Demon Slayer Mark, while most die before they are 25. If you ask me, being able to live up to 85 back then on its own was quite a feat.
@@lisboahagree
@@lisboahyea personally, I like to watch sick genius if it’s done, right
Yorichi was done right
@@koggoku yup because he literally lived through his entire life, and when he got sick, he was already the strongest
Bro Yoriichi is anything but a "Sick genius" he actually defied death at every turn and was never afllicted with any kind of sickness
Similar to Kimimaro, he lived through the curse of Demon Slaying Mark, and lived older than most people without Demon Slaying Mark. He also died right before killing Kokushibo out of old age. It is basically epic version of Kimimaro's backstory.
Of course, he isn't an actual sick genius, but this is an alternative usage of that trope.
That last scene of the fight, were itachi walks towards Sasuke, touches his head and dies could be so much better if he had a massive chidori hole in his chest
Nagato kind of as well, but I believe it was the Rinnegan and the Gedo Mazo statue that had a negative effect on his health and appearance. He wasn’t ill in the same way as Itachi or Kimimaro.
Nagato totally counts. He would have been so much stronger if he had legs. He lost full use of his legs to Hanzo thus he was never at full power. The Six Paths of Pain was his workaround but it's heavily implied he would have been stronger with legs.
@@KazaiChan He had a path of pain that could have healed him lmao
I suspect Nagato got sick because of his abuse of his Rinnegan early on. The Outer Path i suspect. Vitality lost with the Outer Path is lost forever, so his body becomes permanently weaker. Weaker immunity, weaker bones, slower regeneration etc.
Kimmimaro and Itachi were too stacked so Kishimoto had to take my boys in their prime.
I would've loved for Sasuke to actually kill Itachi. He also never should've forgiven Itachi for what he did. Him understanding why but still resenting him is more interesting imo.
Itachi tried to let him kill him but Sasuke still wasn't strong enough
Where has all Dygo’s Boruto videos gone? Did he delete them?
No I think how it went was good. Sasuke was still nowhere as strong as Itachi. But I agree that him still resenting Itachi is a good idea
@@Lumina178, lol, for real. He hid 31 Boruto-related videos.... I remember that video about Eida, that one about Rasengan Uzuhiko and the recent one about everything good in Boruto.
@@rodarollada yea I remember that eida one and wants to find them, not sure where they went, just a bit curious
I would give Kimimaru a pass for the reason that his sickness might have been tied to his bloodline limit. In the Tsunade arc, Shizune stated that her special healing tech rapidly generate new cell but that has a limit and shortens her life. And Kimimaru basically uses his body to produce bones stronger than steel. And he also rips his body apart every time he pulls his bones out. It's just unfortunate that it was so abrupt and without buildup.
As much as I like itachi overall (not so much for kimimaru), the trope is just morbidly lazy, he made both of them extremely strong compared to rest of the cast. So he gave them illness to just kill off such OP characters at any moment he needs to without some plot shenanigans. He wanted to show off how long way to go MC have without dealing with consequences. He can just showcase a great powergap and then use illness so MCs wont die. Also, the reason behind that is to have antagonist dead, without getting MCs' hands dirty. Just extremely lazy setup used so you don't have to explain a lot things and just say, "well it's becasue of illness".
Okay but Yorichii lived a normal amount of years maybe longer he wasn’t a sick genius just a genius genius
The sick trope has to be hinted at in the beginning of the characters introduction otherwise it falls miserably. Giving a character a sickness death out of nowhere is lazy writing.
Too damn powerful? Let's give an excuse for god to kill them off!
Hence the sickness trope.
Sickness trope done right is Jushiro Ukitake from Bleach. Having a character dying from an illness mid-to-end fight is just pathetic.
Dying in the service of a god is soo much better.
To be fair Kimmimaro's illness is there the moment he's introduced but in Itachi's case nope.
Ukitake is trash. Not only this guy lost absolutely all his fights but his sacrifice isethe most pathetic I have ever seen. He litteraly became an arm out of nowhere and it was useful for Ywatch because he stole his power. Even dead, he was more useful for the villains😂
I definitely agree, itachis sickness was a total cop out. But I'll never get over why Kishimoto made Haku a guy lol??
The thing is with kimimaros it was heavily implied that it was overuse of the curse mark that caused his health to deteriorate and it was a good symbol and warning of what the power Sasuke was willing to tap into could do to you. Before that in part 1 we see Itachi while using mangekyou techniques gets extremely fatigued and it’s implied again in the part 2 fight that the overuse of mangekyou is what’s killing him, once again pushing that narrative that the pursuit of extreme power will end up killing Sasuke, but then it’s all just thrown away when Obito is like lol he had ninja aids and it’s just another great narrative point that’s the thrown away in the story for no reason.
Kimimaro has bone cancer.
Itachi has a form of chakra absorbing leukemia.
Given all the ways Orochimaru has escaped death, i find it hard to believe Orochimaru couldn't cure him
Kimimaro was the only member of his clan left and his kekkei genkai was rare even among them. That's why his illness couldn't be treated.
He escapes death by transferring his soul to another vessel. The only thing that interested him about Kimimaro was his body.
Sharing his immortality technique preserves Kimimaro’s soul, not his body, and Orochimaru has no interest in that. No point.
@@The_Average_Ragebait_Borutard What exactly do you think this comment accomplished 🤔. I'm curious
@@Problemsolver434That's just a bot created by a weird boruto fan.
Remember guys, Edo Itachi had the option to stay around because he had control over Kabutos Jutsu, yet still chose to go to the after life. Dieing in front of Sasuke yet again. Dude literally has a messiah complex XD.
Itachi has no desire to live anymore after all of the pain he had to go through, especially since he is also aware as well that he had done unforgivable things & can never move on from it. Also, i think the main reasons for this are that, he had probably thought that all Edo Tensei including Madara would finally ascend back to the afterlife & that Sasuke can already protect himself much more than Itachi can protect him. Especially now that during that time, Sasuke already has an EMS. He was right about Sasuke there but wrong about Madara.
With blindness alone Itachi could be nerfed enough to make his fight against Sasuke relevant; also considering he doesnt wanna kill Sasuke, just test his strength among other goals. In the end Itachi could get rid of Orochimaru & have a false trade with Sasuke to make him fatally wound him as he goes blind and still have the iconic tap on the forehead while Sasuke’s kunai is in his stomach
Guess tsunade medical jutsu isn't good enough to save people. Kishi bringing down even one of the best females.
I heard that she and sakura were supposed to have fight in the pain arc but the editor was rushing him to end because of time it's not the first time that kishimoto ideas were cut down like original he wanted to have more arc but the editor forced to cut down
Damn
@@ayhamahmad2277this goddamn editor
Itachi should have been killed by Sasuke's chidori and not some stupid disease and he could have awakened the MS that way since it's more in line with the lore.
Chidori is too weak for Itachi,Itachi was set up as too much for Sasuke.
@@justinarzola4584And Your the reason why he making this statement.
@@breathair69420 Even Sasuke's Kirin did nothing and that his strongest move yet,Sasuke was trained by Orochimaru but he clearly nothing compared to Itachi,Kishimoto built Itachi up to be way too powerful and wrote himself into a corner.
I think it would've been better for Sasuke's character if he simply never got the MS. Having him get it undermines his decision at the end of the Valley of the End fight, where he refuses to kill his best friend (Naruto), rejecting the Mangekyo Sharingan and vowing to get stronger another way.
@@theking8347 I think the MS was needed if he was to get any stronger.
hey,yoricchi actually died of aging.its not an illness.he died when he was 85.he's a human after all man.
I like to think that Itachi's illnes was psychosomatic. He was literally dying of a broken heart for what he had done.
its simple way of building up a characters to be resilient while making him a threat early only to retcon the reason why a weaker character can beat him
It’s a great way to get rid of the character without getting absorbed by Kaguya.
If Madara had been sick all along and had been killed by his illness mid fight, I would've preferred that instead of what happened.
@@friendlyanomaly6109also make that illness have to be with Hashirama cells sin e everyone has them now
>Clicks naruto video
>Looks inside
>Demon slayer spoilers
🤣🤣🤣
I think a great way this trope was implemented was in HxH with Kurapica's emperor time, because the "sickness" here is self-inflicted as the more he uses it the shorter his life becomes
I personally can accept Kimimaro's fate much easier than Itachi's.
It was hinted at that the condition Kimimaro had was something related to his blood line plus it also highlighted immerse danger Sasuke would step in. If Orochimaru discarded his former number 1 employee that easily, what does that hint for Sasuke's fate? It created further stress and proof that being the most valuable sacrifise piece for Orochimaru wasn't offering any protection at all and they would be discarded just as easily as anyone else. The condition was outlined well before, during and after.
Now Itachi's condition felt like a copout because we got the explanation AFTER and it just made sure that Sasuke's hands remained clean. "See, he didn't really kill his older brother!" kinda scenario. It also felt like the pretext before the fight wasn't strong enough. Kishimoto wants to point to original Naruto series how Itachi loved Sasuke etc but I don't view it in a same way. When he put Sasuke in genjutsu realm, he could have immediadly accidentally killed Sasuke. It was way too risky move to use considering the state he left Kakashi as well. I feel like whole Itachi's motives were just another case of a retcon that he wanted his audience to eat up. I have always liked his character but I just don't think his motives were always meant to be the same.
in the filler arc there's also Ameringo Yuri (one of the seven swordsmen) who was invincible but died of an illness. This was one of the worst usage of that trope.
I personally think Kimimaro’s sickness was based around his Kekkei Genkai. Like with each bone he used and replaced he was using up important nutrients that gave him a bone related disease, like those ones as a result of low calcium that result in the disruption of normal bodily functions, especially regarding the heart through its cardiac cells. That would make sense and be super sad as his whole life, from his clan to Orochimaru, they were literally working him to death.
As for Itachi, best I could think of was consumption.
What’s really sad is that there are ways to treat and cure these diseases which makes them even sadder with what it interprets for these two, as it implies that Orochimaru could have saved Kimimaro’s life but because of the major drawback of his Kekkei Genkai he would see it as a waste and only find use for him in one final mission instead, and Itachi actually could have treated his disease earlier but chose not to so Sasuke could have an edge in their battle and successfully kill him. It just puts a new layer of intrigue and depression to things that actually would have made the trope better if Kishimoto had thought of that conclusion.
We don't care... only facts
Itachi in general is an incoherent character. Kishi just kept adding more stuff to him that make no sense either thematically or narratively or logically.
Kimmimaro was such an interesting character.
Imagine kimimaro meeting tsunade instead, she probably could have healed him
bro just imagine if they allowed kimimaru to progress in the story similar to the konaha 13 , bro he would have been OP asf and then just imagine that times ten like imagine bro being a jinchuriki ?? omg its over specifically hanz's tailed beast ! or the monkey one lol those are really the only ones I could see him with aside from the nine tails. man I miss kimimaru rip big bro
I wonder if he would have been able to use Kaguya's Ash bone technique 😬
Well considering that Itachi could just tank a direct hit from Kirin, it wouldn't be to believable for Sasuke killing Itachi.
Kimimaru was my first introduction into a tragic villain that I somewhat wanted to win.
God, I loved watching this growing up
I think this illness was meant to invoke further sympathy for itachi. He would still be doomed even if he walked away from all of that political shit and guilt.
You're thinking it the wrong way, Sasuke actually killing Itachi with his own hands makes no sense, for Itachi has not sinned against Sasuke, but Itachi's bodily disease makes total sense for that's the punishment one has to bear for slaying his own flesh. Both cases of "Sick Genius trope" are written well by Kishimoto.
There would not really be an organic way for Itachi to touch Sasuke's forehead which is thematic in it of itself and have Sasuke kill him since that would mean Sasuke (seemingly) had the upper hand.
Sasuke does actually feel like he contributed to Itachi's death since that is what awakened his Mangekyō, so it being "cheap" does not affect his character from his perspective.
Great video as always 👍👍👍
Imagine if Itachi just had pneumonia.
I know it's kind of a lazy trope, but it is kind of interesting how many genius irl get rare diseases or just die too early.
Like it's not a large number, but the fact that it's more than a handful is odd
I just had an idea to introduce kimmimaru earlier. I really like Kimmimaru as a character but I understand why some think he was introduced too late. In my rewrite Kimmimaru and kabuto are on the same level of rank in Orochimaru's inner circle. In the rewrite, Kimmimaru is not sick at all. Instead, while the sound ninja four are helping orochimaru destroy the leaf and delivering sasuke, Kimmimaru is actually looking for Tsunade and tracking her movements. Here, Orochimaru trusted Kimmimaru enough to follow and report Tsunades whereabouts and maybe defend himself if nessecary. (maybe Orochimaru could use Tsunades abilities for something else).This could also explain how Kabuto and Orochimaru could find Tsunade in the Tsunade arc. Instead of dying from his sickness, Kimmimaru pushes his curse mark to the limit because of garra and Lee and dies.
Thank you for pointing out tropes that I hadn’t realize are tropes. I’m making a comic book and don’t want to fall into accidental tropes. Keep it up!
Trying to avoid tropes is lazy writing. Just write whatever works for your story
Trying to avoid tropes is a trope in itself. Tropes are tools, not pitfalls, so just make sure your story is well written and there should be no problem.
Exactly what people above said, but also this video is a perfect demonstration that tropes can be good for the story if pulled well. The Kimimaro part was an example of a trope pulled out well.
The trope serves it purpose in the story or is an excuse for lacking writing creativity of the author. Like Kishimoto said Shikamaru was too smart for his own writing capabilities.
To be fair, that's a problem any writer has. Nobody is a 200 IQ genius.
But you don't need to be smart to write a smart character the same way you don't need to be a wizard to write a wizard. It's like a magic trick; the character doesn't need to actually be smart, you just need to convince the audience that they are.
@@theking8347
That's absolutely right. For me Shikamaru vs Temari and Hidan was impressiv and convincing, but his current actions - na...
Also ill Kimmimaru vs Genin and ill Itachi lacking Hashirama cells like Obito was perfectly fitting and convincing for me.
I think of he tried at it a little more, he couldn't have done better. But all the focus was given to Naruto, Sasuke, and all their craziness...
It seems to me that the trope also kinda fits Minato, more specifically the part about the unmet potential of a genius
Minato would be the 'genius failure' a genius, hero, capable but when it called for it he fumbled, circumstances withstanding
Itachi, kimmimaro, the one dude from code geass, Jinbei I think it was, heck irl there was a great old west gunslinger Doc holiday who only died from illness despite all the shootouts he was in.
But irl we got heart attack so... Imagine these badass characters dying mid-speech.
After they finished with Naruto the series, they knew they had the Nerf Itachi so bad, they made the MS have a blindness effect and bro became sick, like dang he went from defeating entire clans to barely standing💀
Just in case you don't mention it. Toki from fist of the north star is this type of character as well. If he didnt get radiation sickness, he would've been the next successor of Hokuto Skinken instead of the protagonsit kenshiro.
Nice to see someone talking about that series
You didnt mention nagato, he had paraplegia and he had his legs burned
Kimimoro at least had something with his own power that caused the disease but with itachi, it was bullshit.
I'd make Sasuke give Itachi the killing blow, not final... I think the final scene should still be maintained for effect. He had all the power and (at the time) confusingly sealed Orichimaru and went straight for the eyes... only for a final twist.
If Sasuke just stabs him the moment he arrives and I dunno, Itachi smiles (like it doesn't matter, too much power) and then the final twist with the forehead touch, that could work but Sasuke needed to be powerless in the end. So I think a second lethal blow after the rigged shuriken but before amaterasu. Remember Itachi only needs to pretend to be unstoppable then die, he can tank a hole in the chest for a minute.
God, this is seriously so annoying because it’s automatically a free win button for whoever fights them.
Jeez, if they’re gonna pull this trope off, at least give us one who dies after killing his opponents, giving him one last victory before he collapses.
Wasnt really that Itachi just depleted his chakra costantly using the Mangekyou that just cause this illness to appear, it's stated that if You use all of Your chakra You die, so i tought that he just succumbed to his injuries for constant use of Mangekyou and depleting his chakra
To be honest i hate this trope in all anime. In slice of life we already know they don't pass away so it's just a waste of time
Battle shounen they are either invincible or will pass out at random. It's basically a writer cop out.
Only time this can work is when the character gets this disease and actually reacts to it like in tales of the abyss where Luke could go at any moment after wanting to sacrifice himself showing he appreciates life and every second he is alive now. That's when it works
Your lie in April does it well imo
Well about him planing to die against Sasuke, it is very likely he planned that the entire time. So when he was traumatizing him as a child he was doing it with that end goal in mind. That would mean he planned to die back then too. And he probably didn't know he was going to die back then because the illness had something to do with his mangekyo sharingan, which he had hardly used at that time, if he even did. I also believe he would have sacrificed himself regardless, no way he's killing Sasuke. Maybe that's why the thought of the illness taking away from the sacrifice never crossed my mind.
Also most people think it might have been a retcon because Itachi was unneccesarily brutal towards Sasuke, especially when he used Tsukuyomi.
Where has all Dygo’s Boruto videos gone? Did he delete them?
I think he did.
Okay good video and all but where is the next rewrite
Your analysis would've carried more weight if you'd referenced a great historical example of this story device like Toki in Fist Of North Star 🌟 😉
but at the end of the fight, Sasuke was out of Chakra. and when he tried to attack Itachi with his sword, his Susanoo completely repelled it. "oh, what if Sasuke killed a healthy Itachi? it would've been so much more traumatic for him." well sure. but Sasuke literally could not do it. the whole point of Itachi giving himself the pneumonia was to ensure his own death. had he remained healthy, he would have had to hold back against Sasuke. but Sasuke would've been able to tell. he would've confronted him about this during the fight. "brother. why are you holding back against me?! i've fostered my hatred just like you asked!!" what could Itachi say in this moment? he could lie, but Sasuke would know. "don't give me that CRAP Itachi!!" or he could tell him the truth. but then Sasuke would've questioned him about it. and he may even stop fighting him. or he might kill him out of rage, but it wouldn't've been an honest death. Itachi would've had to open his arms to let Sasuke slash him. but then he couldn't've implanted Ameterasu into his eye. Sasuke may have even destroyed his body, and the whole hideout again; out of rage. but that would mean Sasuke could never use his eyes to create the Eternal Mangekyo Sharingan. also means the crow with Shisuis eye would never have gotten activated, although this ended up happening anyways and it ended up benefitting Itachi. so that's kinda mute.
the point is: Itachi remaining healthy would've utterly gone against his whole plan. it was never an option. and Sasuke could not have defeated Itachi in combat either. Itachi was clearly still stronger than Sasuke at this point in the story. even with the illness.
to be honest the disease made sense, Itachi Uchiha has shown guilt towards his actions a long time before the fight against Sasuke and we even get to see how Itachi is sitting outside in the Rain thinking about what could have been and about Sasuke and what hes up to right now etc.
now i want you to sit outside while its raining evry damn time with nothing but a weird cloth-cloak and see what you'll be getting cause of that.
so that disease was most likely from him having all this guilt inside of him and all the trauma he went through, all you really covered was the Fight and blablabla, but never really went into HOW Itachi might have gotten the disease and its pretty obvious that he has gotten it from Rainy Weather.
Kisame even told Itachi that its not good that hes sitting outside in the Rain for so long evrytime, but Itachi didnt care about that as he clearly felt at peace whenever it Rained and he was able to be in it to think about things that bothered him.
which btw is pretty human, alot of people feel happier when its raining and actually feel much better when sleeping as it rains.
so it could also be that Itachi has slept in the Rain multiple times, which is ofcourse also nothing that keeps you healthy, thus his Disease really comes from all the Rain he sat and may have slept through.
sure the fight with him having a disease seems a bit crappy written, but then again it makes total sense and Sasuke def. didnt know about Itachi's disease, so if he dies in the hands of Sasuke, Sasuke would think that Itachi is an Evil Person and Sasuke is now able to return to the Village, which ofcourse completely fn failed when Obito interrupted and told Sasuke all about Itachis past.
which in that perspective is greatly written due to the fact that it answers as to why Obito didnt Attack the Leaf Village when Itachi was still Alive as they had a contract with each other pretty much that Konoha will be left unharmed as long as Itachi is alive and the fact that the Amaterasu suddenly attacks Obito makes it way more obvious that Itachi never trusted Obito, that could have not been written that way if Itachi was healthy and Sasuke beats a Healthy Itachi.
the aftermath is what makes the Story with Itachi and his disease way better, its about Sasuke but its also about keeping Sasuke away from Obito and the reason as to why Itachi wants to be killed by Sasuke, he wanted to die by the hands of Sasuke, getting rid of Orochimaru and at the same time get the Amaterasu implanted into Sasuke so if Obito ever stands infront of Sasuke, that the Amaterasu would kill Obito.
tho it also shows that as smart as Itachi is, he still didnt know evrything due to the fact that Obito is able to get rid of the Amaterasu with his Kamui, something Itachi didnt know about.
there is plenty of things that you can name that makes Itachis disease totally plausable and actually amazing writing.
I honestly don't think it'll change Sasukes reaction/emotional turmoil whether Itachi died from the illness or not.
Sasuke was the one to push Itachi so far to the point the illness was able to off him, it's not like Sasuke or anyone would say "no he didn't kill Itachi, it was entirely because of the illness"
Think of it like this, you're fighting an old man and as you do he shows clear signs of being ill but you don't care and keep going until he has a heart attack then poof he's dead.
Would on lookers and yourself say "it was the heart attack that killed him" no you wouldn't because you were the driving factor pushing a clearly sick person passed the sick body's limit that set off a chain reaction.
If anything the fact Itachi's last act alive was his forehead tap that was synonymous of the brotherly bond they once had was probably far more emotionally impactful for Sasuke than actually getting the final blow.
I think none of it should at all be changed, the final blow isn't going to give us anymore impact
And it would just be more inner turmoil when he learns of the truth, instead of just blaming konoha he'd also blames himself. Too much drama..
O yes Yoriichi the only genius in the verse that literally died of old age truly fits the trope lol
I actually think Itachi’s illness was really well done.. it’s built up to showcase the VAST difference between Itachi & sasuke the man was mortally ill, blind AND holding back yet gave sasuke the fight of his life and bodied orochimaru as a side quest mid fight lol
Thematically it’s meant to showcase that if Itachi was truly evil… sasuke was not walking away from that fight which really hammers home what an incredible man & brother Itachi was he had all this power, he could have been one of the greatest shinobi the leaf had ever seen and he threw it all away for sasuke for his little brother he protected above all else.
Basically it’s easy to say oh he held back and say sasuke was lucky but it really shows how powerful Itachi was when you realise he was dying, blind & holding back
This guy is a Sasuke fan, of course he doesn't understand it lmao. I don't know why I still watch him. But yeah, Itachi was extremely strong, that's why Kishimoto had to dispose of him quickly, because he wouldn't have let Sasuke be the star of the show.
itachi dickriding camp assembled
Itachi is a PR machine for the writer. That's all she wrote
We get massive foreshadow for Itachi's sickness back in the 1st season, stating that bro WASN'T okay, lol. The exact moment when Kisame says Itachi shouldn't use sharingan no more, 'cuz it's really goes bad for his eyes, wtff.
Itachi and Kimimaro's illnesses, when combined with Naruto and Sasuke's explosive growth in Shippuden (especially in comparison with Part 1), lend credence to the idea that Itachi and Kimimaro were the original Indra and Asura reincarnates of their generation, but became terminally ill upon losing the transmigrant portions of their respective souls. If we think about it, the level of genius and ability both had shown was what some would consider to be unnatural (with Itachi not really even needing to be trained) and would only make sense if both had knowledge from past lives. Furthermore, Orochimaru had little interest in the base Sharingan (he showed no interest in Kakashi and only BECAME interested in Sasuke's potential upon seeing that Indra's chakra might migrate into Sasuke), but instead truly wanted the ability to use all jutsu---the key to doing so being the Rinnegan/Yin-Yang Release, which could only be obtained via the Indra/Asura reincarnates. I think this would be a clever plot twist, especially if additional Byakugan-related powers (specifically the Gokei Byakugan and an improved Tenseigan with a system of anti-chakra from the fanfic White Eyes), additional lore surrounding the Hyuga and possibly Kaguya clans (specifically the Hyuga (and possibly Kaguya) being either from the Moon or descended from people who lived on the Moon), and lore surrounding the Susano'o spirit weapons, Samehada, and tools of the Sage of Six Paths could be implemented. This would make each major character have a purpose by making the story effectively a race to unlock the universe's secrets, and if proper foreshadowing could be done, it would even, in my humble opinion, fix Kaguya Otsutsuki by making her story make sense within the universe, given the wasted potential that exists with her (I would actually agree with Ser Serendipity and disagree with DygoKnight about some of Naruto's villains, in that I don't really find Madara especially compelling as the main villain (but seeing him have to work with the protagonists would be really cool), and I find the concepts that went into Kaguya Otsutsuki to be genuinely interesting, if rushed and poorly implemented).
It would have been cool if Kimimaro’s Kekkei Genkai is what caused his disease.
Also it kinda sucks because sasuke got his ass handed to him and was running away from itachi because he knew better than anyone how fucked he was only to die inmediately after felt kishimoto fucking with us like oooh look if itachi was healthy sasuke would have no chance against his brother and shit
Sasuke didn't stood a chance even when Itachi was ill
Itachi kind of let himself get killed
Yoriichi wasn't a sick genius. Fact that he died of old age not of sickness or enemy was intentional. To show that even the most outstanding, lucky and brilliant of humans will inevitably die because of aging. The main conflict of this series is how do grapple with this, because if the greatest couldn't survive old age what hope do others have.
Aw man, imagine if after the power transfer, Sasuke immediately amateratsu Itachi? Killing Itachi with his own signature Jutsu.
Would Sasuke get revenge fueled manic as he watches itachi writhe in agony? Would he feel empty and hollow, like his duty is done?
Or even payoff Kakashi's lesson about the Chidori is an assassination jutsu and how one should never want to point that at a comrade, or someone close to you. Giving Sasuke a similar trauma to his Sensei related to their Mangekyo awakenings.
Kishimoto nerfed Shisui, Itachi, Kimmimaru and Orochimaru. All those 4 were sick but oro had it worse, they took his arms.
Shisui was perfectly healthy? Even Orochimaru was fine without his arms, his arms barely even mattered after switching body.
@@charnalk5572 His arms did matter, he was also dying only reason most people took advantage. Sasuke, pain and itachi would of never had the upper hand if orochimaru was healthy and had his arms.
War arc Orochimaru would of smoked all of them if he was healthy
Shisui was also poisoned and got ambushed.
@@orochimarupr Itachi no diffed a healthy, with both his arm's soul(whatever that's supposed to mean), Orochimaru when he was like a teen (14 yo I believe?).
Sasuke did take advantage of Orochimaru's lowest point, but that had nothing to do with his arms.
He was dying because his vessel was an imperfect one, not because of his arms (and he exerted himself against 4 tails Naruto).
I was a bit disingenuous when saying his arms barely mattered, since he couldn't use specific justsu that require hand signs.
He lost in versatility, but he was still way more versatile than 99.99% of every other characters and still had access to his strongest form (Hydra, Yamata No Orochi thing, and still got no diffed by a blind Itachi).
Shisui is honestly a Mcdonald toy at this point, we don't even know how he actually died and when the Uchiha police found his corpse they never talked about poisoning (and they had evidence to actually suspect Itachi apparently, but idk in the manga we only see 1 panel of Shisui without either the context of his death. The Itachi novel was stated by the actual author that is nothing but a spin off, and should not be used as canon material, I forgot her user name but I think she still has the tweet up).
@@charnalk5572 It was literally stated that he was poisoned that's the only reason danzo even defeated him.
Itachi never fought prime focused orochimaru, he fought an evil an ambitious one that didn't take anything seriously. Prime vs prime orochimaru smokes itachi.
Orochimaru having his hands sealed away prevents him from going all out.
Like I said if he had his arms against naruto or Sasuke it would of been a different story. I never said he was dying because of his arms but he lost because of it
The second time although itachi was blind, orochimaru was in worst condition and couldn't even use his hands only reason itachi was able to seal him. It was literally a 20% itachi vs a 5% orochimaru that's not really impressive.
@@orochimarupr Nothing was ever stated about how Danzo fought Shisui, only that he stole his right eye. People present the while poison thing as canon because it makes the character look the best out of it (even though he's still featless anyway, all we know is that his body flicker was the best thing ever I guess).
Could've been anything, like even a full on jumping to just straight up a younger Danzo being a God at Taijutsu who cares.
Again, Itachi and Orochimaru already fought even before the series started, and Orochimaru by his own admission is far too weak to even attempt a surprise attack on Itachi (and he wasn't even aware of anything more than his base sharingan).
Itachi was even in a worse state, both blind and his body was actively failing out and heavily damaged by the Kirin (it actually destroyed his Susanoo, he even states that he would've died otherwise).
kimimaro needed to be nerf to save gaara and rock lee
Lee was supposed to die there and should have die but he was too pupuler like guy so not just lee neji and others were there arc were done and were supposed to die in this arc but they were pupuler and the editor forced kishimoto to keep them alive so it's the editor fault
Rock Lee was apparently supposed to die to Kimmimaro but he was too pupular so Kishimoto had to make Gaara save him and Give Kimmimaro the illness.
@@justinarzola4584 killing him there would have been better way to end his arc because kishimoto won't have enough time to focus on every single character and draw look at hiding arc kishimoto wanted that arc to be longer but the editor was rushing to end and he was in the hospital remember he was writing in the weekly manga if Naruto was a monthly manga it will be much better
Lee and Neji dying during the Sasuke Retrieval arc would’ve been much better treatment than what they got in Shippuden.
@@VladStopTalkingit's the editor fault for keeping them alive just like guy the only reason he is alive because he was pupuler
Correction: it's done 3 times in the Naruto verse. Nagato is a genius who lost his legs. Thus he isn't nearly as strong as he's "supposed" to be and thus he uses the Six Paths of Pain instead. If he had his legs he could go into battle using all 6 paths from his own body.
Not just his legs, bro's entire body was a halloween decoration.
He looked like what actual emos look like
One good thing about kimimaro being about to kill Gaara and Rock Lee is that Lee and Gaara are now in the same boat; is about to die.
I think it could work in a way that hashirama kind of did.
A being super op that protect the status quo just by existing and the second he dies the safety blanket is off and the world goes to crap and the hyena surrounding the heroes then Start attacking however i think it’s never really presented like that
The only similar Thing is in the manga ares
I would argue 3 times with the 3rd being nagato who is also pretty gimped as far as his full potential goes. I guess he wasn't so much sick as he was a cripple though. But if the war arc is anything to go by he would have been a beast had he not been crippled and all it took was him absorbing some bijuu chakra...and when you consider all the bijuu they captured its kinda strange he didn't other then derp plot. Honestly I don't think naruto would have been able to handle him at that point in time.
I don’t think it should be called sick genius trope, it’s just overpowered trope (power or chosen one level growth)
This is true in real life too, if you look at Brazilian Ronaldo carrear, he was to good to be real and life gave him so many injuries to be fair with the others
The candle that burns twice as bright burns out twice as fast.
Well to be honest Dygoknight if it was such a bad trope how would you have Kimimaro and Itachi beaten by their respective opponents other than illness there was no other way to beat them because Itachi and Kimimaro were just so unbelievably more stronger than their opponents that it just was not fair so how would you write their defeats?
Kimimaro... Yeah no way
Itachi? Wellllll he wasn't exactly planning on killing Sasuke. He'd probably throw the match
A writer can find a way for the outcome of battles to change, they don't care about fans power scaling.
A big problem for why this trope exists in the first place is the strenuous deadlines present in the manga industry that don't allow a writer to flesh out a better way to tell the story.
Usually the first thing they put to page is the one that's published (obviously editors are involved), because they've got to send it off and get to work on the next chapter.
@@SleepyBrady like he did in the show lol
Where in Naruto does it say Kimimaro was an all powerful genius? I mean, yeah he's stronger than most at the time but I don't recall him being anything other than that. You also have to remember he's fighting children. He's going to be a lot stronger just in that regard alone. Compare Kimimaro to anyone from Shippuden and be prepared to be underwhelmed. When Kimimaro fought Naruto, Gara, and Rock Lee he looked to be around the same age as Naruto and co are in Shippuden. Not so strong or smart now, is he? He's at best middle tier when talking comparatively to people his own age. Rock Lee, Gara and Naruto would all wipe the floor with him without trying if they all fought at their peaks.
True, but the anime had Kimimaro help Orichimaru kill the Fourth Kazekage (and then collapsed from his illness afterwards)
@@theking8347 He was present. The fight takes place off screen so we don't know how much help he even gave if at all. I don't think orochimaru would need help to take down the 4th Kazekage considering he already had the 3rd Kazekage as an edo tensi clone. The 3rd was considered far stronger. Gaara took down the 4th without an issue and no way Gaara could take Orochimaru.
I love this trope because it hits you with that bit of reality. Even in a world full of magic, the smartest person in the world can still be cut down by nature, cause life doesn't give a shit. Just like in real life, there are just illnesses that are incurable and barely treatable. Cancer even with todays technology is a daunting illness you have little chances to pull through, and even when you recover, it can still return. Why not in a fantastical world some kind of curse can fuck someone over hard and with no cure.
The smartest person would be orochimaru. And he's still kickin it in boruto. By being the smartest he increased his natural lifespan through various methods. Itachi accepted his death instead of trying to prolong it.
Hagaromo also died of mysterious Chakra illness
My man, if you're gonna include a manga spoiler for demon Slayer or anything else please put a spoiler warning, It doesn't matter how small or insignificant or stupid the spoiler is, always include a warning, even if it's just the name of a character
I suspect Kimimaro had to go because of Kaguya. Logically his power ceiling would likely have to scale to the ranges of Naruto, Sasuke level if he existed. Cope theory.
Kaguya wasn't even thought of yet when Kimamaro was introduced
@@theking8347 They do mention Kimmimaro being part of the '"Kaguya Clan"( This can be easily forgotten if you don't pay attention in hindsight), however it can be argued only the clan name was thought up at the time and not the character herself, Kaguya even has the bone manipulation so I don't know if this was just coincidence or Kishimoto really thought back to that.
I think the "A Genius in spite of their illness" and "A Terminally Ill Genius" tropes are two completely different things, but media and authors have mixed up the two in order to cover up poor writing or an easy way to invoke the same feeling.
Why does no one pay attention to or Remember the Ultra Humanite from the Superman Comics? Dude was established to be a Frail Disabled Mastermind who fought the Man of Steel but No....Overtime he was forgotten by History in Favor of Lex Luthor and...for some reason they Put his Brain into a White Gorilla making him Gorilla Grodd's Palette Swap!
Orochimaru is no longer human that's why he doesn't care what happens to his underlings.
Toki from Hokuto no Ken is the best example of this trope
Toki from Fist of the Nort Star is the father of this trop and the one who did it best😤
There's a legitimate chance bone Orochimaru would have been stronger than Sharingan wielding Orochimaru, and there are very very few other clans I could say that about.
It's sad how fanfiction gives Naruto side characters more development than in cannon
Showing Yoriichi is the worst example. Dude wasn't sick at all. In fact, he literally had a mark that causes any other person ever to pass on early if they have it, but he is the only one this doesn't apply to and he lives a full, natural life.
My thing is if you do it once cool whatever plot device I get it but doing it more than once makes it problematic.
I completely forgot that Itachi had any such illness 😂
if itachi didn't had the plot sickness AND took sasuke's eyes
he would take madara for the same ride goku took frieza after turning super saiyan
As an Itachi fanboy here, i don't think that'd be plausible since Madara has battle experience but at least Itachi wouldn't be easily falling off thanks to the unique divine weapons he possessed.
Where's the blood in that kimmimaro image? the one with the drill
i wonder how many less madara fans there would be if their precious god also had an illness?