Are Chinese Motorcycles taking over?
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- Опубликовано: 1 апр 2024
- In this video we're exploring the growth of Chinese motorcycle companies particularly in the west as they look to expand and build the infrastructure necessary to become key players
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That was an interesting video. As a brit, and owner of a BSA in the 70's, I watched in amazement as the Japanese destroyed the British, European and USnA manufacurers.
They delivered top-spec machines that had all the bells and whistles, power, reliability and modern tecnology - such as disk brakes and electric start as standard.
They EARNED the right to their sucess, in the face of apathy from the western manufacturers.
That leaky, smoky, tame (but otherwise fun) BSA was the last non-Japanese bike I ever owned.
I have had Hondas. Kawasakis, and Yamahas, and each of them were works of great engineering, reliability and power.
it will be interesting to see how China proceeds.
Yeap the Japanese work ethic and commitment to quality is in my opinion the best. Germans do the same but the price is much higher. Chinese are not innovators, they copy other peoples products and often use poor quality materials, hence why they are cheap. I don't see them taking over but they will sell a lot of bikes due to people starting to deal with rising costs of living.
The Japanese are one thing now the Chinese are something else. I would never buy a Chinese car much less a motorcycle. The Chinese are best known for Tofu dreg products. Cheap chines e crap.
@@CRFLAus The S1000RR is a copy of a japanese concept and italians copied the design of the Honda NR750 for their 916.
(owner of a RedMoto CRF 300 RX here)
I don't forsee this happening with chinese produced vehicles. Literally the only thing they have beat is price. And they're catching up on quality not because they are getting better, but because everyone else is getting worse
@@CRFLAusThis. The Japanese have 'kaizen' in their DNA - continuous improvement. They are masters of detail.
China does not have 'improvement' in their cultural DNA - it's about money today.
I am a US citizen living in the Philippines.
Year round riding here (😊)
I have a 650 Kawasaki that is wonderful.
I also have a Chinese 250.
Air cooled, fuel injection, 6 spd box, triple disk brakes.
Love the Kaw of course, but use the 250 for daily utility.
Have to say, it is a good runner, 19hp.....fine for a 250, and has been a trouble free bike.
Shifting feels a bit clunky, but is all I can say that is not fully 100% of my Japanese bike ownership experience over the last 40 years.
It cost me $1,700 new.
No complaints.
Is called a Rusi Classic 250i.
Google it....a good looking bike.
RC 250i feels so good to ride with.
Isn't 19 HP too low for a 250cc? The Hero Karizma XMR which is a 210cc produces 25 HP, while still being dirt cheap.
@@derkonig2292From what I've seen, yeah it's a bit underpowered, a Colombian (Technically also Chinese since it's a partnership)Akt NKD 125 makes 11hp and the Rusi Classic 250i that he mentions only makes 15hp and funnily enough both seem to be from the same family only different brands
I'm also in the Philippines. I see Rusi bikes all over the place. Years ago I was considering buying a Skygo but all my friends and family advised me against it, saying that I should only buy "branded" bikes because they last longer and sell better if I choose to sell it. I chose Yamaha and Honda bikes.
It does look sweet! But I'm affraid that as a European I'm a bit too heavy to enjoy a bike with just 19 hp. 400cc is the least I consider
I bought my first Chinese bike in 2007, a Lifan 200. Rode it 53,000 miles with no mechanical issues. Since then I also bought a Chinese scooter and quad. All very reliable. My advice is don't buy a Chinese bike unless you're willing and able to do all repair and maintenance yourself.
I've found getting parts for my Chinese bikes very easy and quick. Many parts are standardized and available on eBay or Amazon, or other Chinese motorcycle parts sellers. When I replaced the clutch on the Lifan 200 (due to wrong oil), a complete clutch with cush gear was $38 with free shipping.
Buying a Chinese bike is nothing to be proud of
@@logannowak4010 true
@@logannowak4010 can we talk about how Reagan made a tariff for heavyweight motorcycle imports in the 80s to protect Harley Davidson's America-based manufacturing, and how Harley benefited from $2.3 billion in government loans during the 2008 financial crisis, yet still moved their manufacturing overseas? Is that anything to be proud of?
@@thadcox5298I don't own stock in Harley, nor would I buy one.
The communist Chinese government owns the companies that make Chinese bikes.
@@logannowak4010 im proud of owning a couple chinese Emotorcycles, and also excavator, faak you racists.
Rise of the chinese motorcycle industry has to be seen in much wider view. It isn't just motorcycles, it's about chinese learning that it isn't just huge quantities of disposable goods with lowest possible price tags. Chinese EV industry has shown China can produce premium goods with affordable prices and that's spreading through the chinese industry in whole. China is having some growing pains and they are making also big mistakes but China is growing to be a technological and economical force to recon. They already have the knohow to make things in huge quantities, now they are learning quality.
and we underestimate the will, they want to do it, desperately,,,, this can only be good for the middle weight class i-e 400cc - 600cc as @bart points out. Don't forget their prowess in EVs, you can get same spec same design chinese ebike for half the price of Suron ,,ZERO watch out!! ,,,the list is long
Yeah no Chinese EV is shit. Have you seen the design? They basically copy paste it from other manufacturers, the plastic shell is so cheep you can bend it with your hand, some components like the touch screen fail after one day of use, charger getting stuck, batteries exploding and worst of all airbags sometimes don’t deploy. Yeah trust me man if it’s Chinese, odds are what under the hood won’t last past the first month.
In fact, motorcycle manufacturers in China are not big companies.
Because there are many cities in China that restrict the licensing of motorcycles. Because of the small market, no big company is willing to enter this market.
Relatively speaking, many automobile manufacturers in China are large companies. They represent the most advanced productive forces in China's electromechanical field.
Lol... Nope... Chinese govt gave huge subsidiary to ev making due to which byd was able to produce ev at such low price... They produced so many ev's that's their inventory is full and now dumping ev in other countries.... 😂
I ride a Chinese 250 cc dirt bike. It has more features, like a fully adjustable suspension, 6 speeds, and a counterbalanced engine, that many Japanese bikes don't have. I've only had it 8 months but its holding up well, rides great and is a lot of fun. So far the only thing I've had to replace is the chain, it was too stretchy and had to be adjusted every few rides. Hopefully it will hold up long term
As a person who doesn't buy anything new, including undies, this "Chinese invasion" creates a problem. When the market is littered with fresh bulk, the old stuff becomes more valuable while spare parts cease to exist. The whole market assumes that everyone would just go buy a new item when the old one stops working. To me, that's waste and waste is bad. I want to fix my old ride with reasonably priced good quality spare parts rather than go buy a cheap new one I know nothing about.
Used undies??? Cheapskate! 🤣
Totally. Sadly even ten year old bikes are harder to work on, and now... forget about it. I also gravitate towards the older used market.
Then you’ll love Chinese motorcycles. Parts are cheap and decent quality on Ali. Issue is they don’t speak English well so navigating that parts market is harder for westerners. But European and US bikes parts are pretty scummy in that they charge more for parts than what a used bike can costs. With that said next bike will be Japanese.
Unfortunately this consumer mindset makes businessmen much less money
cries in 82 honda...... parts are so miserable to find for my 650 nighthawk these days
My son had A Chinese moped. It was terrible experience. We Will stick with the European, Japanese and US motorcycles in the future. I am driving my second BMW. Earlier I had Yamaha XJ. Excellent experiences with all od them.
While living in the Philippines, I bought a new Chinese 175 cc single cylinder OHV street motorcycle. It had 5 speed gearbox, kick and electric start. I paid the equivalent of $840. The engine was actually a previous Honda design. The motorcycle was great. It fit my needs perfectly. It was also my only transportation. I had USA raingear so, riding in the rain was no problem. I road it as my daily transportation from
2017 - 2022. I am now living in the US but, my Chinese bike is stored in the Philippines. There is a chance, I will move back to the Philippines later this year. When I first bought it, I thought am I crazy it's Chinese? I can tell you the quality is there. Yep, they are copy cats. However, as you mentioned, the Chinese are gradually moving to original design. The biggest motivator for these types of
bikes is the price. It was for me. A comparable Honda motorcycle (which is probably assembled in China) would have cost me at least 30% more money, even in the Philippines.
You would get a better bike if you bought a good 2nd hand Japanese made bike.
@@kethughes8266 Used motorcycles in the Philippines are not maintained and have a tremendous amount of problems. The exception is if you buy a used bike from another foreigner. One Canadian guy bought the cheapest Chinese Rusi bike new for $750. He road it for about 3 years and sold it for $600 in a day to another foreigner. If you are in the Philippines then
you gotta buy a new bike unless buying from another foreigner.
I had one im 2012-2015 or so, also in SEA. It was fine, but large and overweight, underpowered and had bad build quality.
However, my Honda scooter is now showing its age, and I'm seriously considering a Chinese EV bike. Build quality varies a LOT (I've test ridden and looked at quite a few), but I think they're probably leaders in that market.
@@senseofstile Different market to the one I am used to where I live Chinese bikes rust rapidly to say nothing about political principles.Buying Chinese is just feeding the beast.
@@kethughes8266 Got a 1983 Honda cx650 c last year. She was only made for one year, but as I bring her back up to specs, I've snagged every part i've needed on Ebay. 1200 bucks. She's nice. Took all the gas out of it and put in clear gas(no ethanol)...got my 64 horses now, oh yeah. Last bike, 40 yrs ago was a '68 650 Bonnie. I'm movin' up. The brakes are better, that's for sure. Plus an extra 20 horses....but a little heavier. Shaft drive. She's a work of art. Black motor is gorgeous. As you say, old Japanese....I'll take that over old chinese or new... any day.
BART’s videos always entertaining
*Bart
@@vincedibona4687 *bart
Im not gona deny those Zontes and Voge bikes look pretty good and "reputable" vloggers are reviewing them. Right now im a Honda man , the future. Who knows...
I have 2 Harleys and a Suzuki but my Zontes is my go to for everything except highway, three years in, no problems.
I did change the rock hard rear shocks but I had to do that on the Harleys.
When I was teaching in China I had a 50 CC step through that was A POS and then I had a Suzuki branded 125 that was every bit as good as the original
found the 10ct intruder
What year was it?
Who do what do wonder why? Chinese motorcycle fastest small money vehicle whole family enjoy
Branded?
Was the Suzuki a copy of something?
The fact you can still buy a second hand 20-30 year old Japanese motorcycle with minimal fuss/issues, is where the Chinese need to get to.
Sure new CFMoto looks good - but that’s the issue, it’s new. Give it some time and iron out the issues and they will gain respect.
I ride Honda because it’s had decades to learn/develop. It shows in the end product. Teething issues are long ironed out.
Chinese bike, maybe one day. Right now? I just don’t want one. Resale and reliability is still stacked against them. I know that will change.
CF Moto might be higher quality than the other brands I think they actually licensed designs they purchased some Arctic cat patterns and factory machinery and have some original designs at least for 4-wheelers I don't know about motorcycles though I'm a atv guy
Your comment is the most sensible one in this dumb fest of comment section. As happend with Japanese, lot of Chinese manufacturers will go out of business as time passes and only those making good bikes, anf innovating will survive. However Suzuki seems to be doing fine for being the laziest Japanese bike manufacturer or for that matter anything they make.
Cfmoto and benelli are two decent brands, Cfmoto had been in business for 30 years. They are offering very competitive motorcycles at a fraction of a cost, however I am still holding back for same reasons as you.
Reliability is stacked against them? Not true at all
To be fair. CF Moto products are not great examples of Chinese material construction. Their 450 was a joint development project with KTM engineers. Their 700s are based off the 650 Kawasaki licensing and their 800s are actual KTMs in disguise.
Those platforms are solid. However time will tell if quality building is there to support the product sold.
In Portugal for.example they have created their own division CF Moto Portugal (CFPT,) which will handle the import of bikes and parts. That is something that even some big players don't do over here.
40 year old jap bikes are still good if maintained properly
Recently chinese motorcycle companies tried their best to enter Indian market with different manufacturers like Benelli, CF moto, Zontes, Moto morrini etc. but they never got any traction in market and kinda they failed
Good. They are overpriced unreliable POS.
Having done some market survey and forum browsing over the years, my takeaway is that their engines are pretty reliable, your worries should be more on electrical issues after riding in the rain or a was, loose screws, rust, and small welds breaking
The good brands like cfmoto and Benelli have bolts that rust out. Everyone whinges about it, blah blah crap Chinese quality! But then looking at Thai built Honda or Yamaha doing the exact same thing there's silence
@@chrispekel5709 Owned a Kawasaki Vulcan S, my suspension is leaking. My other bike, BENDA BlackFlag 500 has the same problem.
The Kawasaki asked me for around 100 bucks in USD, and Benda asked nothing but bike in their 4S workshop for 2 days.
Well... I'm having fun with my Vulcan on the street in the city.
Yet , I'm having fun without any financial burden in mind with my Benda。I can ride it like a ADV in dirt without worry about what will happend next. A broken turning light? Nah. Scrach on the wheel? Nah. Dent on the frame buttom? Ehe.... Nah.🤣
Bart, I love your work. These videos keep getting better and better! One thing that is hard to imagine, is that until the late 1960s, "Japanese" was synonymous with "cheap junk". Honda didn't help that with pressed steel frames and so-so fit and finish on their bikes. It didn't take long for people to notice that they were super reliable and fast.
I took the plunge and bought a 2024 KTM 790 Adventure built by CFMoto. So far so good. I wanted to buy a Suzuki VStrom 800DE or Honda Transalp except neither bike had everything I wanted. Kawasaki refuses to make a mid powered Adventure motorcycle. I wasn’t interested in the more dirt oriented Yamaha Tenere. Japanese manufacturers have a history of telling consumers what they need vice addressing what consumers want. The KTM 790 Adventure had tubeless tires, a large fuel tank, cruise control, great electronics for safety, and a more powerful engine. Reviewers often address MSRP differences rather than what consumers actually pay, and the KTM was by far the best value. The way I see it the major risk I took is potential reliability issues. To me it was worth it. I have zero concerns about the bike being made in China. It is in CFMoto’s interest to build a great bike for KTM as they improve their own market share for their own brand of motorcycles.
Chinese built bikes based on the specifications of their customer unlike western ones. If the customer asks a scooter/motorcycle quality that matched a price point they will deliver even sourcing parts from Japan Taiwan or EU. Thats how a Chinese deliver unlike western that you accept what it comes out of the factory. Example a Zongshen K01 3-wheeled rickshaw is hand-gear shifter but my country importer wanted a foot shifter, in the end my country importer got the foot shifter.
I learned on Chinese bikes. Japanese bikes from the 60’s and 70’s were designed and manufactured well. Make it’s fun to work on them
Like 80 years ago, I'd buy only Italian motorcycles for the same reasons.
I was looking at the CF Motos. IBEX 800 and the 700CL. Wife wants to ride, so the 700 is out. But, in the end, it will be a Suzuki 800RE, 750 Trans Alp or NC750. Started out in the 70s on a Kawasaki KE125, and road it all over the dirt roads of North Dakota, but never put a huge amount of miles on it in the 4 month riding season. My first significant riding experience was on my CB750K in the early 80s in California. First and only bike I have accumulated 17k miles in one year. Loved that thing, and would buy it again if offered. But, for now I will ride my X300 and 1250 Bandit (not a fan of that).
I collaborated with one of the big 3 as a designer and that "make similar things but cheaper" is really ingrained into their mindset. They buy 2-3 units of every motorcycle on the market (I saw a Hayabusa in one of the lesser known brands) and what they usually did was use that as a base for making new designs, instead of the typical design process of packaging, making prototypes, etc. While they're not incapable of making totally ground up vehicles, their focus seems to be just making as much shit as possible right now, with huge amd time cost constraints as the market in china is also not very large due to the Chinese domestic policies makes motorcycles as transportation extremely unfavorable (cities like shenzhen treat all motorcycles as bicycles, forcing them to use the pavement and not being able to go on roads), with mopeds and ebikes having huge incentives and hence manufacturers focusing on that. Their RnD teams while plentiful and capable, lack depth as they are mostly confined to knowledge within their own market, which stunts them to grow and expand globally as the Japanese do. In many ways, the products lack "soul" or "identity" as they are still copying, but just doing it in a more tidy way. Only time will tell if these behemoths with large cash and factories will have a mindset shift.
On the brighter side, I would say that CF Moto would be the only company not doing this.
China is perfectly capable of manufacturing high quality products, it's just that most manufacturers in China are more focused on making cheap products, and when that is your focus quality tends to suffer.
A literal country of "military grade" products.
I totally agree. There is nothing special about western people that make them produce better products. Building cheap just what makes more sense for Chinese Manufacturers. In the majority of Southeast Asia, the median income does not allow for luxury goods. As a result, the manufacturer builds to the consumer base. A westerner just has the opportunity to purchase these cheaper products. China manufacturers also produces many high-end products for the west, like Foxconn or power tools.
The culture in China is when something breaks, throw it out and buy a new one.
@@KevinSmith-qi5yn, China is using slave labor and government subsidies to make inexpensive products that undercut the industries of western countries. There is nothing “free market” about what China is doing.
Yes they produce pretty cheap products mostly for the domestic market and their export stuff is not sold to the general public because it's better quality and I found that to be so
In Dubai there is a Chinese brand that's been around for a couple of years. It's called Sharmax. The range of the motorcycles and quad bikes and Dune Buggies is just staggering. The bikes range from street, to cruiser, dirt, Enduro, Cafe, and everything else in between. The bikes are gorgeous, and the prices are very affordable. Many come with triple disk, upside downs, hand guards, dual exhaust, engine guards, digital dash, LED lights, etc.
I ride a Burgman 650 which I absolutely love. But when the time comes to change bikes, I will most likely be riding a Sharmax. Look it up
In 2018 I helped 3 friends each set up Hawk 250s. I think they use a knock off honda 230 motor, not sure. There were a few parts on the bikes that were a little bit too extremely cheap for my taste. The swingarm, chain, kicker, for example. Needed to add adjustment screws to the carb to get them to run. But shit, they were $1000, shipped to your house. Street legal dual sports. Lights, e start. Comparable to 00's DRs or KLRs.
They are already 70 percent of the mexican market. They are cheap with reliable engines but Bad electronic parts. They feel cheap but they can last up to 80k miles without engine failures. You can Buy a 150cc for 800bucks brand new, or a 300cc for 2.5k usd. Good bikes for new riders.
But don't believe You are getting a good deal. You get what You pay.
Racing; they need to race. There everyone can see what they're made of. With the stopwatch, and/or lasting through a Suzuka endurance race, here is where we could see real progress.
They are in moto3, eventually they will move up
Why? because they must follow the Western way or be left behind? Just like EVs? 😂😂😂
Excellent video with a very good understanding of history and background. It's always a pleasure to be taught about motorcycle history that way! Keep up bart 👍👋
One thing you didn’t mention, perhaps it’s not well known, is that motorcycles inside China are on the decline, they are banned from most cities and metropolitan areas, where they used to be common. This means Chinese companies are looking more to export, as the domestic market is gone. Same for electric bikes, they are common place in China, since they are not covered by the bans, that technology is making its way to the export market.
So it doesn't matter whether it's banned or allowed in China, in decline or in demand. If they make them, they want to export them
Why they banned
@@subasthapa4839 pollution
Something to add here, new motorcycle owners in China are currently subject to a policy that limits the lifespan of their bikes to 13 years from the date of purchase. This applies to all types of motorcycles, whether they are imported or domestically manufactured. After the 13-year period, owners are required to hand over their motorcycles to local authorities for scrapping and disposal. Despite opposition from many riders, this policy remains in effect.
Are you saying that an electric motorbike is not a motorbike? 😂😂😂.
Can you check to see what a "biased point of view" means. You need to stop getting brainwashed by your media. China is going Electric - EVs, E-bikes, E- public transport...
When we see dealerships locally so that we can easily get replacement parts and/or maintenance items, more people will feel more confident buying a Chinese bike, but without service/parts availability, there's no point.
I bought a 2023 CFMOTO CL-X700. Side by side with my friends '22 Z6550RS the fit and finish are pretty on par. So far It has been a great bike with alot of great features for a very competitive price. I own several 70s amd 80s vintage Hondas as well and will never get rid of them.
There was a saying in the 90's that, a drawing would go in the front door on a Chinese manufacturing plant and almost simultaneously go out the back door.
Well, I grew up on my Dad’s German made Suicide stick shift motorcycle. I had many Japanese, American, Italian even Spanish motorcycles for many years. I could never afford Harley. I love the design the sound but, way too expensive. So now I’m a 69 year old motorcycle rider. On 2022 bought a Triumph 1200 Bonneville Speedmaster. Still riding enjoying my motorcycle. May be I’ll be getting a Harley on my next life. Ride Safely.
They wont stay cheap forever. If you look at Kia and Hyundai when they first started selling cheap cars here stateside. As soon as they became popular and more mainstream they're now just as expensive as a Honda, Toyota, Nissian, etc.
Absolutely love your videos! Some of the best on YT!!! FYI, dunno if you planned it but the screen is black from 8:00 for 30 seconds with only voiceover…. If it’s by design, disregard this lol…. Keep up the amazing work!
Im from the UK living in the Philippines. The Chinese bikes are actually really good. Cheap to buy but not cheaply made. They are solid machines that do the job. The days of "Made in China = LMAO" are over when it comes to cars/crossovers/bikes. They have long since woken up to the fact that they need make quality stuff. Living here theres no way Im gonna burn money on a Kawasaki/BMW/Honda when the Rusis faithfully do the job and some of them are great looking too! Nice video thanks!
RUSI all the way! 🤘
haha, 99.99999999% Chinese don't know what rusis is. as a Chinese this is my first time hear about it. because 99% Chinese cities ban motorcycles. 😂
@@jt-ttt Oh no, why banned? Because of noise/pollution?
@@ChinaPower1 Rusi is King! I will always by them.
@@wootle because the people who made the rules don't like poor people live happily. dictators.
As someone who lives in Vietnam, Chinese motorcycles are here and yes they do sell. However, they are seen as disposable even with the fake MV Agusta 125cc and Benelli models. Honda is at the top followed by the rest of the Japanese brands. Getting parts and repairs are seen and are too troublesome. If you want a disposable motorcycle....then China is the way to go.
I think this video is western focused so he's talking about Benelli and Cfmoto rather than the Chinese scooter and small displacement bike makers. Even the cheap Hondas here in Vietnam are pretty crap to be honest
I was at a chinese factory looking at their R&D. They had taken apart a Suzuki 600cc engine and were taking measurements of every single part and measuring tolerances. The issue is the quality of their material, the alloys used, the mixing etc. I mean they had machines for everything but the quality of the alloy just isn't exactly there. Plus the fact that almost all their bikes are copies of Japanese products with garish colour schemes which will then be muted anyway for the export markets. The plastic they use was recycled - plyable sort of and subject to heat, it went rather brittle. They had no provinance certificates for any of the metals used. Apparently the supplier is a friend of the factory owner and that is about it.
locally on marketplace, those Chinese bikes almost can't be given away while 20-30YO KLRs, XTs, DRs all hold their value.
I just vidsited one Chinese motorcycle factory near Chongging, Rato. They seemed to have their quality issues in order and they seem to be growing fast in many areas.
Sí, y al chile que bueno.
Me encanta que los países del "libre mercado" de repente ya no creen tanto en él cuando llega China y les come el mandado.
Hermano latinoamericano, no se están quejando en el video, están planteando si realmente lo lograrán. Deja de lado el filtro anti imperialista yanki de los 90s, es ridículo.
Excellent video just laying down the facts. Not appearing biased in either direction. Thanks!
It's good to see someone not just try and run the old "Made in China" line for once. One thing that happens as you continue to foster a large industrial sector for things is that the people who enter that workforce to make cheap copy cats actually become skilled at the trade in general. These companies that start out just copying other people working designs end up having a massive leg up as their workforces get to skip the step of initial R&D and I think that within a generation (say 20-30 years) the people who are designing the cheap stuff today will be leagues ahead of the companies that are getting their workforces for shareholder profit.
If you have an economic policy that actually values production over finance (even if that production starts out as cheap copycats), you're gonna see massive growth as the people working in these industries age and add their knowledge to the pool of knowledge that they initially drew from.
A key component, in addition to quality is dealer support. Do these brands have a strong service/dealership? How do their warranties compare to JPN - German - Italian bikes?
I've bought 1 dirt bike, 1 quad, 1 trike, and 3 dual sport Chinese bikes so far since 2018 and the quality is going up exponentially. So yes,
Just bought a Zontes GK350. Still getting used to the different feel of a big single when I used to have twins or fours, but it is clearly a quality product, and way more up to date in the tech than anything else I have ridden
I have a 2000 Fireblade. Bought a Zontes 125 as a cost saver. I was pleasantly surprised with the decent quality for the low price. 8 years later, although there are signs of cosmetic wear and tear, it still rides well. I am considering buying a 250.
In the 60s Poland produced the most motorcycles in the world. Nobody seems to know that.
And then Honda came along.........
True?
@@pede8889 Yup. In late 50s and early 60s people in Poland couldn't afford cars after all the destruction from the WW2, so motorcycles absolutely exploded. But as cars became affordable, people turned to them
I appreciate the thought and research that you put into your presentations. Ronn
I was given a CAM Chinese 125 basically a Honda copied engine in a Suzuki copied frame , it did it's job and got 3 lads through their CBT and 1 through his test before I passed it on to a friend for a similar mission ( to get his Misses on the road) , no different than the Japanese bikes of the early 80's ,and easy to service.
Editing issue around 8 minutes, black screen?
Probably a copyright issue due to the video being used
CFMOTO 800NK is a great bike AND it has cruise control, huge fucking win right there haha.
As a general matter, I find getting parts and support for Chinese stuff problematic, which is a big deal on big ticket items
i had one and my brotger has one as long as its an all mechanical one its all good, they last if take care of them
I bought a Raven 250 a couple weeks ago for less than a weekend bender would. It's honestly a blast.
Shoot, Harley has been building Chinese motorcycles for decades.
Every one of us will eat from a Chinese fridge, cook in a Chinese oven, pull down our chinese pants, and sit on a chinese toilet to watch this video.
For me, i think there could be some good here. The Chinese bikes could put downward pressure on the other manufacturers. Bikes could get cheaper AND better because of it.
Would i ride one?
Shit yea. Brand loyalty is a fools errand. Until a brand comes along that genuinely cares about me and my satisfaction, i will buy the best bike i can afford. If its made by China or Tony Stark in a cave means absolutely nothing to me. The ONLY reason i would hesitate is parts availability.
Bring em on baby!
It should mean something to you. If one of the long time big guys mess up and makes a shit vehicle you’d know about it right away, if one of these Chinese brand mess up yeah good luck finding out about it, for example there have been many instances of Chinese EV airbags failing to deploy but a lot of people online seems to think their good. I agree that brand loyalty can be foolish at times but if you look at it differently a brand must have made some good products for people to be loyal to them. And most importantly you only got one life.
@@tinlephuochuu9493Yea, like Boeing jets falling out of the sky.. you sure know about it. Sometimes I am amazed at how close minded you guys are. 😂😂
@@hclau218 what about airbus? If you don’t fly Boeing then you fly airbus not some Chinese manufactured aircraft. Or am I wrong?
@@tinlephuochuu9493 I use a broom and fly with an open mind.
@@hclau218 It’s a free country so you do you I guess. Just try not to crash into anyone house.
I've had some really good quality Chinese bikes. They are only getting better. I'd buy another in a minute.
I own an 800NK. For just $300 more, it is more capable than an MT-07 which is heavily dated. Yes, it is basically a KTM but reasonably priced. The cruise control alone is amazing. They recently released the quickshifter and steering damper to the U.S market as well, 3 months after releasing the bike. 100hp and 50 ftlbs of torque with a tried and true engine and more advanced tech? Where else can you get all that for $8,499 msrp? I've owned it for 3 months and it already has 1,550 miles on it. Can't wait to install the quick shifter and damper.
And by the way, chinese bikes are already in WSBK and MotoGP. In WSBK there's Kove in SS300 class and in MotoGP CFMoto has teams in Moto3 and Moto2. In Moto3 their bike is namely a KTM and in Moto2, because of the rules, they're runnin Kalex chassis with Triumph engine. But anyways, chinese are in motorcycle racing ;)
Well do ne video, I'm sure they will figure the market out.
Kove just achieved their first podium too. That's impressive given how little time they have been in the industry.
Well, china and INDIANS, my most anticipated bikes right now the new Himalayan 450, and the new ktm390 adv are built there, china, well, as long as they don't do some "Russian type shit" and invade Taiwan or any other country its fine, but ill keep an eye on that.
I remember reading about production issues with Vitpilens and Svartpilens when Husqvarna shifted from Austrian to Indian plants. They got it figured out eventually but I really think that's still always something to consider. Not to say that Indians don't do their work properly but the additional shipping and logistical complications that could arise will always make me feel a bit more uneasy than domestic
@@TragicAykBro that's how capitalism work.
The 800nk has gps built in which I can monitor through the app, app connect aka Apple CarPlay etc, quick shift, cruise, backlit switches, OTA, steering dampener, LEDS all round and it’s affordable. Tell me even an expensive tourer which has OTA and some fancy tech rich app
The real problem is a lot of the major playets stoppeud making affordable beginner bikes to garner brand loyalty and build markets. Like what is the beginner HD bike. They almost did it with Buell, but then canned it. Now their market demographic is dying off.
Politics aside, the new CFMoto bikes are actually pretty great. I’ve had a chance to ride many of them. Their ATVs are also excellent in my experience.
The Chinese and India brands are the only ones brave enough to make motorcycles that people actually want, with specs that people actually asked for. The "other" brands keep making the polar opposite of what the customers wanted, which left a massive hole in the market. Someone had to step up.
Except the Indians actually make decent reliable motorcycles. Chinese machines for some reasons are just trash
Sure all those millions of motorcycles from the USA and Japan were forced onto the buyers. YOu have no idea what you are talking about, go back to your video games.
@@jdsheleg8332he's talking about world markets. Go back to your medication boomer
It’s the capitalist way: advertising tells you what you want.
After reading the comments I am almost afraid to say that I actually own a Chinese motorcycle, & an Italian one, & a Japanese one & an Indian made one. The Chinese CSC (Zongshen) is a street 250 single, Honda push rod clone engine, producing all of 16hp. The same kind of engine Janus uses. The thing is an absolute blast to ride. Sure the bike is gutless & the suspension almost conceptual. But it fills the void of a fun, light weight good handling little run about. The brakes are almost too good. The fit & finish are way better than I would have expected, the engine is fairly smooth, very reliable & super easy to work on. All parts & shop manuals are available through the US distributor. I have put over 3000mi on it in 6 months having done several 100mi+ days on twisty, steep back roads. It is my go to street bike if I do not have to use freeways. Super fun & a lot of bang for the buck! Oh yeah it looks really cool too, like a small Japanese bike from the 70s.
I've been looking at a few of the chinese bikes for the same purpose. Closest thing out of japan that fits is the XR150, but that's around 3500 out the door. The chinese bikes come in under 2k. It's a no brainer for a putt around bike.
In my younger years in East Germany I rode a MZ ETZ 251; the big bike in this country. In the eighties this two stroke engine had 21 horse power. Two up with side panniers on tour I sometimes struggled to hold 80km/h on a hill, or strong headwind, despite 30% more power then Zongshen today. It was a nice time. But today too dangerous to be so slow!
Great content.
One big difference between three Japanese manufacturers of the 60s-70s and the Chinese today, their export market isn't only the US and Europe but the rest of the developing world where price is very important. They can make it big and out sell the Japanese brands without needing to be especially successful in western markets.
Hello What about Indian Motorcycle Industry. Which is smashing all industries including the Chinese.
No such thing
@user-bo2uu1yp1d It is see the example of African bike market.
@@user-bo2uu1yp1d😂 okay buddy
You should look Africa how 4 indian companies killed the monopoly of such Chinese companies@@user-bo2uu1yp1d
Had two Chinese bikes they only lasted a few years I still have my Honda XL 200 had it for 20 years and runs like a dream just put it back on the road after not using it for 5 years
If you look at CF moto and Loncin(Voge). they are now developing their own engines. They Are doing this in collaboration with "more traditional " manufacturers. My point is that they are innovating. Their issue is now customer perception, and reliability of the dealer network (which is often lack luster)... I owned a Loncin motorcycle for 5 years (sold it last year..😞) and from my experience, I can say that it wasn't the most efficient in HP or fuel consumption, but it was very reliable and super cheap to maintain.
The same thing was said about Hyosung and South Korea
Then EVERYONE who bought one was pissed 1 month later and it rained the first time....and all the fasteners rusted and stained parts of the bikes.
I had a Chinese bike a few years ago. It was an RX3 Purchased from CSC (California Scooter Company) in southern California . It was a 250cc ADV / dual sport manufactured by Zong Chen. It ran OK but fit and finish was not great. For instance, it came with a chain that had loose and tight spots, making it almost impossible to adjust. Also, the front brake disc was warped. I think I put just under 5000 miles on it, trail riding end commuting. After a couple years I sold it to a young man who had just gotten is motorcycle license, and wanted to ride with his father.
I guess I would have to say it was probably worth what I paid for it, which I believe was about $3500.
No , I am buying from India. Prices are better, and they haven't threatened to rule the world by force . They also have one of the biggest motorcycle manufacturers in the world. Another good source will be the Philippines . They also have a good company. If you really want to know about Chinese motorcycle look-up serpentza he lived in China for a long time and was building custom bikes based on Chinese bikes.
Serpentza is an excellent journalist.
Lmao he's a loser making money off of throwing shade on China.
@@chrishenniker5944 Anyone who knows anything about China will tell you that Serpentza is just a troll sponsored by Taiwan and the CIA
China undercuts competing manufacturers, wipes them out and Jack's up the prices.
No they don't
@@danb.3397 Yes they do.
That what they did with the glass art color rod market
Because no one else could ever start up a business after right? Once the prices go up that’s it!!!!
@@HahaDamn Speaking as someone once involved in the shoe industry in the UK once they are gone there gone.Lack of skill set machinery manufacturers etc etc no UK worker would work in the sweatshop conditions Chinese workers endure leading to lower manufacturing retail price differential.
I've ridden a mondial 125 and a Chinese electric "Harley styled scooter" (HL 6.0, which I've completely rebuilt), and I also own 2 Japanese bikes (FZ6 and VFR 800) that are both 18+ years old. The Mondial and the electric scooter are an absolute pain to work on, just crappy in every nook and cranny. The Yamaha and Honda are, you guessed it, a dream, just rock solid. I've done the valve check on the fz6 at 45k miles, not one valve clearance out of spec. When I'll hear similar stories of Chinese bikes, I'll consider buying one. You don't get to woo me with fancy plastics covering shoddy engineering.
This is a very well-made video with a completely sensible dialogue about what happened and what will happen. I'd give the Chinese 5 years to get a real foothold in the market. Their quality standards will improve, and they will innovate. Plus, they will score a big success in the aftermarket accessories, with many small companies supplying this stuff and making it readily available online at good prices. And let's face it, half the stuff in your car was probably made in China and you're probably reading this on a Chinese built phone.
Putting any geopolitical considerations aside it will be hard for any Chinese brand to become a sales leader without a robust dealer network.
I live in NC and several "powersport" shops carry CFMoto. They started selling the CF Moto ATV's a few years ago but have not yet picked up the motocycle line. One of the shops also has been selling SSR off road motorcycles and pit bikes from China and Kymco products (scooters and ATV's from Taiwan) for at least a decade.
Free market is good until they beat me in sales.
@@josefernandobenitezmondrag6684 My company partnered with a Chinese company that ended up buying and shutting down our facility. In a panic move, they set up a much smaller version in a nearby town to deal with a few contracts that needed to be "American Made", although I suspect that many of the components were Chinese.
They are bigger here than Aprilia
they have a domestic market of a billion people , foreign is just speculative for them at this stage rather than even being profitable
i bought a new 22016 rps magician (229cc) dual sport. and its was.. ok, good for the money i guess. defiantly wouldn't recommend it if you can't fix it yourself. Everything from assembling it your self to having to find really odd parts that should be easy but wasn't, for example finding the right rear brake pads or a rear tire to fit was a challenge. that being said it was a pretty tough little bike engine wise. its now falling apart with most of its lights and gauges mirrors and many other thing long smashed off from rough use, engine has been seized once or twice and abused hard and has roughly 10k on it now and is a back up beater dirt bike. but it still runs. leaks and burns oil but it still runs.
The biggest issue with Chinese manufacturers is their inability to vet partners and the consequential poor customer support that follows. It's now currently hurting the car manufacturers, as in the UK insurance is hugely expensive for their vehicles. The reason is a lack of data on collision repairs. I repair Chinese motorcycles. Some are a piece of cake. One has taken 2 years of on/off parts hunting to almost complete. It took over a year to get a gear shifter. My final delay is a rear sprocket 😮
I don't care if they make good quality bikes. I don't care if they make crappy bikes. I'm just never buying ChiCom stuff as long as there's ANY other alternative.
When there's no alternative anymore I'll become a pedestrian
Completely agree
Exactly what guys said about Japanese "riceburners" in the early 1960s. 😅
@@browngreen933 True!!!
You're going to find it very hard to use anything that wasn't made in China. Just for curiosity sake, what device did you use to type your comment?
Go to any inner city and see what makes of scooters are busy delivering food, running red lights, and doing phone/chain snatchings, and you’ll find it’s almost always Chinese scooters with no plates.
No such thing at all
Here in Mexico there's this brands called Italika and Vento which are basicaly modified Chinese or South Korean motorcycles, and people give em a lot of sht for being chinese, but around %60 of motorcycle riders here use either Italika or Vento. As an Italika user, it might not have that premium feel that Honda, Yamaha, or Susuki has, but it can definitely take a good beating; plus they are really easy to modify.
Hey bart! Can you do a history of underbone motorcycles linking to Suzuki Raider.
I own a 2014 Triumph Bonneville T100 and a 2023 CFMOTO 800MT (Ibex in the US). I bought the 800 MT on a whim - one of the bikes that were used by the track officials at the Australian MotoGP to get around - with 300kms on it for $11,500AUD. I've done 4000kms since Jan and I can't fault it. I was looking at midsize ADV bikes and I was so frustrated that the "established" brands were charging so much for extras (cruise control, crash bars, skid plate, heated seat/grips, quick shifter - if they were available at all!!!) whereas the CFMOTO just came with them. I hope it encourages the big brands to start offering better value for money again. With everything else nearing $20,000AUD, I'm happy to report that my CFMOTO 800MT is exceeding my expectations to date and it has almost made my Bonneville redundant.
You won't catch me dead on a Chinese motorcycle.
My first bike was a 150 cc crappy Chinese bike (Loncin)... Excellent first bike... Brand new was $1,000 USD. They do have quality issues, specially the plastics and electric components.. The thing is that spare parts are crazy cheap... The sound is horrible, is like driving a blender with wheels, but they are perfect to start your journey into the motorcycle world... Very easy to learn how to maintain and repair. And most importantly... they are slow and with crappy brakes... which is very important as a new rider helps u develop good breaking habits, and doesn't allow u to go too fast which makes it less likely for a noob rider to have an accident... They do suck once u gained some experience... And u do have to look for a better option... But really good first bikes...
Where do you think your phone is made, boomer?
@@chrispekel5709 only the phone?
@@chrispekel5709 Talking about bikes, virgin.
@fgnoyola I started with a used Ninja 250 and rode it for about 65k miles before I got a faster bike.
Best motorcycle ever made.
In the phillipines small chinese bikes are cheapy metal dont last,rust n break.my kawasaki 150 is 11yrs old,only change oil n spark plug.i ride it everyday.
I have owned my 2018 Falcon Freedom 250 cc for almost two years now. It's a cruiser, with a design I love, but old technology. Yes, I have had some complaints about it, definitely, but considering the price and the feeling it gives, it's great. It has the same style as an older Suzuki Intruder, which I fell in love with many years ago. I will upgrade eventually. What I'm worried about right now is that there isn't a huge market for this type of bikes, and with a lower quality, my bike might deteriorate and not bring much money at all in a few years. It is a risk you take when buying some Chinese products.
Chinese?! Maybe not!! They're still got a long way to reach quality standards.
Indian?! Yes!! Recent Indian bike giants are very reliable and are reaching those Japanese standards at a rapid rate!!
Cuz our mostly top brands legally partnered with Japanese brands inside India Learn the Japanese way and now are independent companies after demerger after govt. Did good amount of reforms now we have tons of bike companies and companies like royal Enfield there owner is hard core bike lover ! And companies like bajaj literally have so so big R and d centers and Own brands like KTM ! And have tons of experience
What is the point of buying Chinese bike that costs as much as Honda...
Making yourself feeling good for supporting the ruthless CCP? Hell, no. The Japanese manufacturers are trustworthy.
I mean and what's the point of buying a Mazda car that costs as much as a Renault. Easy Options, competition, design features, everyone has their own thing and some Chinese brands could disrupt the market and make the more traditional brands put more effort on their bikes.
@@dkrampage2933 I mean Chinese bikes are worse quality and mere copies. Price is the only thing that could make them interesting, but they are surprisingly expensive. Renault and Mazda both have their own R&D and some kind of history and reputation, chinese bikes have none of that. Therefor your comparison lacks logic…
Often, the case that you will find is that the prices are similar between Japanese and Chinese bikes. Similar engine sizes and power levels. Comparable features and so on. Some Chinese manufacturers such as CFMoto and Vento/Zontes are doing their own thing and actually trying to become their own brand. You will also find that a big reason for the rise of Chinese bikes also comes down to the third world countries where fue to regulations and laws (trading tariff and taxes on imports) Chinese bikes tend to be substantially cheaper.
@@KapitanPisoar1 No, because Mazda didn't start making perfect cars and what you're saying now is what a lot of people in Europe, South America and more countries said before Mazda established themselves as a Sports Brand and now a Affordable Luxury brand
(Made a mistake in the last message I put Renault where Mazda should be, I'll be correcting that now)
I used to favor products built where I am from. Now the companies where I am from openly discriminate against people who look like me, all without legal repercussions. All I can do to respond to their behavior is to avoid purchasing from them. Admittedly this may be entire point of their actions, we are living through a paradigm shift. Interesting times indeed.
As a longtime fan of European twins - especially V twins, I was very interested in the Lexmoto Vendetta which is a Yamaha Virago 250 engine design, but in a scrambler type style. I eventually found a Bullit Bluroc 250 V2 (same bike with different paint and stainless bolts!) and bought it to quell my curiosity.
Some materials are poor quality - springs rust rapidly, sprockets wear quickly etc. but handling, brakes & suspension are adequate for solo riding - no worse than any other 250!
Fuel injection has poor response and isn’t that smooth - especially on closing the throttle. If I keep it, long enough, we’ll see if the quality of the engine components are any good 😄 Certainly a fun little bike that’s usable for short to midrange trips.
Time will tell on reliability, but seems good value for what it is.
Looks like and upgrade version of Yamaha's SRV250. That was a great bike, that for some reason never sold well.
In the end cultural mindset shines through. I happen to like the Japanese mindset, it's like they need to prove their worth in everything they make. I'd hate to live in that culture but they certainly produce some impressive stuff.
The Chinese mindset seems to be to off load volume for profit by making it look shiny in that tacky chromed plastic sort of way.
China can keep their machines. Ive seen enough to know better.
15 years ago I bought a DKW two-stroke RT200VS German motorcycle from the 50s, the largest motorcycle manufacturer in Europe. I also bought a small 4-stroke Chinese bike from which I took the engine off and put it in the DKW. The engine has now run approx. 40,000 km. it starts easily uses no oil and has never failed. But Bad welds paint thin as water and chrome as vapor. I also drive a BMW when the wife is with me. so no plans for a big Chinese from my side.
I have always been a fan of European and Japanese-made motorcycles. However, about a year ago, I was looking for a motorbike that I could purchase and maintain without breaking the bank. It was then that I came across CF Moto. At first, I was hesitant because it was a brand that I was not familiar with. But after doing some research on the internet and watching videos on RUclips, I decided to take the leap and buy the CF Moto 700 Heritage. To be honest, I was a bit nervous about the purchase. But after riding it for 3000 miles, I can confidently say that it has been a solid and enjoyable ride every day. While the accessories and technology may not compare to premium European and Japanese brands, the value for money you get with CF Moto is remarkable. It's worth noting that many premium brands manufacture their parts in China or Asia (India) anyway. Overall, I am happy with my purchase and would recommend CF Moto to anyone looking for a reliable and affordable motorcycle.
I prefer products to last longer than 15 minutes. And to be able to get parts.....
You're overly exaggerating, 15 minutes? They wouldn't even sell, but they sell everywhere WITH warranty, cope harder
I bought a CFMoto 450MT and they offer 5years warranty. Imagine how many billions of tons of parts should they deliver and replace if these chinese machines will fail at every 15 minutes during 5 years of warranty 😱
Yes, but will it fall apart like a Chinese motorcycle?
Hey Bart,
Great video! Totally agree that competition is good for consumers. As a motorcycle designer for Chinese companies, I see a big difference between those who simply copy and those who truly invest in R&D. CFMoto's a great example of successful collaboration!
Another point - comparing a small Chinese company's $3K bike to a premium brand isn't quite fair. (I'm talking about general comments). Not all Chinese motorcycles are the same.
Just like we've seen with Chinese cars, the quality and innovation are skyrocketing. BYD and Geely are dominating sales for a reason. While the motorcycle transition might be a bit slower (we bikers are a picky bunch!), I have no doubt China will be a major player soon.
However we can see in the Honda latest patent is a copycat of the Royal Enfield Himalayan, but no one destroyed Honda. Improvements can be achieved by making enhancements to the existing motorcycle. Also a huge factor is the cost, a Chinese motorcycle can't be expensive no matter which technology have because people still don't believe is worth it.
PS: anytime you want you can dm and we can talk deeply about the situation here. How everything looks from this side
Cleveland Cyclewerks just closed their shop here in my country couple days ago.
Sorry, but because of the slimey ways in which China operates, I would NEVER by a Chinese motorcycle !!
I just bought a used Japanese motorcycle over a new Chinese bike.
Would do it again. You don't need just to buy the motorcycle, you need to know there is a parts supply chain behind it that you will be able to get replacement parts for it... forever. A lot of these Chinese bikes... are going to lack that.
If it's a cheaper bike people don't care. More expensive is Benelli and Cfmoto, and they're not going anywhere. They're huge companies
I noticed that half of the promo material for Chinese bikes is found in the Philippines. Despite me owning a CFMoto 300SS, here we are still focused on Japanese brands with the extreme focus on scooters so the stigma is still there
I've recently ridden 4 Chinese motorcycles over 3 weekends, CFMOTO's 300SR & 800MT Adventure, the Harley Davidson x350 & the Benelli Leoncino 500. The 300SR & x350 were perfectly fine, but other than the riding position both bikes felt the same & didn't leave much of an impression on me, other than they're both capable small capacity motorcycles. CFMOTO's 800MT Adventure,, on the other hand, did leave a big impression. Not with how it rode, which was just like a bigger version of the 300SR & x350,, but how the intake sounded when you opened up the throttle. On a motorcycle that's fairly bland & devoid of personality in every way, the huge roar from the intake is an intoxicating standout that overwhelms the exhaust note. It's the one feature that makes me want to ride that bike again. And then there was the Benelli. I rode it after the CFMOTO's & before the HD & the contrast couldn't be any wider. The Benelli is engaging in a way that the other bikes weren't, so much so that I considered selling my Aprilia Shiver & getting the Benelli for my stable, before I came to my senses. The whole bike felt well put together & the power delivery from the 360 degree engine was fun & playful.
So, from my small sample of the market, China is perfectly capable of making good quality & refined, but unmemorable, motorcycles. If they continue to do this & keep undercutting the competition they'll make some ripples in the market & take sales from the competition in the frugal end of the market, as CFMOTO has done here in Australia for well over a decade. If, however, they make more motorcycles like the Benelli, and get enough people to experience riding them, then they could really make some big waves.
China's industrial philosophy has always been price point at the expense of quality. They CAN build quality (just look at the iPhone), they just don't want to. Once China starts building quality products, we should all be very afraid.
they build plenty of quality. cfmoto, lenovo pcs, dji drones and cameras, their electric cars are qualitatively on par or better than tesla, their own phones are great, etc. it's more that people want the lowest prices. but you can't expect quality and the lowest prices.
They didnt design the iPhone. Their 9 year old employees assemble em.
@@tedcity5861you know nothing john snow......
And don't forget the huge manufacturer BYD and also the new Xiaomi SU7 which will be another new game changer for Tesla competition
The Chinese will build what the middle man wants. Want quality, pay for it. Middle men like Walmart want cheap, so they get cheap and nasty. Chinese motorcycle manufacturers that set-up their own distributors, or only employ existing quality distributors, will have good products, and will insist on quality dealers. Other companies don't understand this and only think about sales volume and profit margins.