What Drives The Vindictive Narcissist?
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- Опубликовано: 10 сен 2024
- When you have longstanding relationships, it is quite normal for differences and disagreements to arise. Dr. Les Carter describes how this can be managed constructively, yet narcissists have so much unfinished business that they can automatically become vindictive. What's going on?
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Dr. Les Carter is a best selling author and therapist who has semi-retired to Waco, TX. For 40+ years he maintained a counseling practice in Dallas, conducting more than 65,000 therapy sessions and many workshops and seminars. He specializes in anger management and narcissistic personality disorder.
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Many narcissists are sadistic. Being vindictive and causing others pain gives them pleasure. They also convince themselves that their targets deserve their wrath so they feel no guilt about their behavior.
Absolutely. The backhanded insults done covertly, the exclusion while appearing like angels to everyone else and creating a smear campaign against their target. My sister in laws are both this way and feed off of each other. I've even cried to them and said I wanted us all to get along and I saw zero empathy, absolute coldness and was told " sometimes you can't change how things are" which ofcourse she denied saying afterwards when I told my brother and they continue with their nasty behavior towards me. Been going on for 15 years and counting. They're very cruel malicious sadistic evil people. I've seen the evil in their eyes. When they see me sad, it gives them life. I've done a lot for them but only received insults in return and they are not happy if anything good happens for me. They even have tried to ruin my birthdays by sulking in the corner and showing that they don't want to celebrate me when I got them gifts for their birthdays which they couldn't even receive without insulting me in return in that moment by being cold. They don't want peace with me...only constant emotional and psychological abuse. That's the only thing they get pleasure from. They have turned all of their family and friends against me and many of what I thought were my own family and friends. Even my brothers have to not treat me well to make them happy. They are very evil people who appear to be good to others and have slandered me so much that all of their family and friends mistreat me and think that I'm bad. I pray to God for vindication...it's been going on for so long.
"Narcissists are driven by envy." Sad but true.
You know they're being vindictive when all their actions are pre planned. They have their agenda before you walk in the door. Immediately you're in the firing line!
Indeed! You see it coming in your direction right away! Lol🙃
It's even sadder that I can't do a thing to help or reason with this person... An endless battle
@@dinafish6024 This is absolutely completely & utterly true
My dear Mum oftentimes used to say '''You just can't reason with a mad~man''' Totally, unreasonable & never see the hurt & upset they cause others
Especially those whom you would expect they would love😢God bless you Hope & pray life's extremely kind to you in more recent times ✨☘️🙏
IF YOU SAY Hello to sibling K or Cousin Windbag : you Lose! For me , I wish only best for THEM! God bless them ( far AWAY FROM ME)!! they are Toxic Nuts.
@@evelina787 Actually they do see the hurt they cause, and they delight in it. But like any addiction their "delight" is short-lived, so they have to hurt someone again, and again, and again. My vindictive covert narc sister has punished me thousands of times for something I did when I was 5yo, (she was 3yo, and started it by picking a fight with me). She even has admitted aloud that seeing the pain she caused(s) me gives her joy. She keeps punishing and blaming me even now because she still feels victimized by what I did several decades ago. We're now in our 60s.
It's amazing how little responsibility a Narc takes for their own actions & behaviors. It's ALWAYS someone else's fault.
Yes. They accept NO responsibility for their words/behaviors.
Justin Trudeau. In a sentence.
They want to "teach you a lesson" like you're gonna learn what they want you to learn.
They wish to inflict pain twice as much as they think you inflicted upon them. Guess
what? All they do is show everybody the wrong way to overcome an advese situation.
These people are so desperate to believe they’re special than everyone else, they seek validation through any means and it usually means disrespecting everyone else’s boundaries
It’s their life sentence to be vindictive and hate who they are. I have nothing but pity for them. What is so sad is their inability to self reflect and accept the help they so desperately need.
So true.
That's the sad part for them: they don't have the ability to take a look at themselves, and deeply reflect. They have no idea that their way of relating to others is detrimental not only to those they hurt, but also to themselves. Because of their vindictiveness, they destroy any chance of having meaningful relationships, and they drive people away.
They won't ever seek help, because they don't think they have a problem at all. It is always others who are wrong, and they make it their mission in life to punish those who they think have "hurt" them, when in fact it they themselves who have done the hurting.
It is very sad for them, and also for we who have been unfortunate enough to have crossed paths with them.
Exactly. No self awareness.
@@christinelamb1167
My exact sentiments
It gets worse when they age and lose all their flying monkeys. They're crumbling apart slowly.
Their bad experiences are no licence to be abusive. I don't care how it started; what they do as adults is on them. It's not sad, it's evil. They have a choice just like anyone else.
I used to feel pity. That's exactly what was used against me and wasted decades of my life that would have been spent in worthwhile ways.
exactly, give that compassion to yourself instead
I feel exactly the same way.
Beware of those narcissists who target your children to get at you.
my sadistic mother in law who i currently live with, im 23, and have abusive narc parents of my own.were getting out soon but my life has been HELL for the last year
@@harrietleah212sorry, I’m at home and idk why I haven’t left yet
Nothing worse than covert narcissistic abuse.
No, it's literal hell. I'm sorry that you had to learn what it even is. 😔
Losing a sweet beautiful child is the worst, unless you're talking abuse specifically. My 18 year old identical twin daughter passed without warning from myocarditis, then I learned about narcissism from my step daughter's narcissistic abuse 4-5 months later. Her mother is the worst, put me and us through all kinds of hell, including parental alienation. I started looking up the step daughter's toxic behavior and learned about narcissism, NPD, and cluster B personality disorders. There are a few family members that don't understand, so that's fun, too. The last couple years have been pretty rough. Losing my child was definitely the worst, though.
@@FoxyGirlWonderthat's tough, I am so sorry about your daughter. I pray you can find some peace over time 💕🙏
Yes. More difficult to spot.
Jeanne Douglas:
NOTHING WORSE is the truth. It is total pain. It starts from the mental abuse and it eventually makes you feel physically sick.
Sometimes I wonder what life is like married to someone who is kind and tender. I could love someone like that.
Well, that’s the way we like to draw it up!
Wouldn’t that be nice.
@@sthomas4634
Yes
Oh that would be great.
Narcissists live and breath being the worst they can be towards you every single day.
Without effort...it just comes naturally.
It’s an impossible situation, they are severely dysfunctional to the extreme. Never have I known anything like it. Its just unreal…my head still spins trying to fathom their style of abuse.
I came from a chaotic environment, but nothing surpasses this. I hear you. It's hard to believe people have the capacity to be so manipulative and live in such an angry world that they create.
The reason these people in their past "let them down" is because they didn't worship the the narcissist( or quit after realizing they were dealing with a narcissist). If you quit worshipping the narcissist you will join the list of " crazy" people who let them down. That is my experience.
They’re vindictive and spiteful, and when called out on their behavior usually say “I don’t know what you’re talking about”. They’re pathetic imposters. Hi to Gus!
Yes, yes, yes. Smirk, delight, mockery. Social shame. Projecting bad motives onto me, triangulating. Not content with their position or place in life, must be the big cheese, seeks out authority figures to hold it over others. Not able to be part of, but needs to be in the driver's seat even though they're inept, don't care for and are not fair with those they consider under their " stewardship".
Yes. Exactly real azzholes.
Giants
Hence why I am stuck living a life in Hyper-Vigilance… always need an exit strategy. I’m exhausted.
I'm right there with you, in constant flight or fight and brain fog. I'm on day 5 of no contact and planning my escape. I am slowly regaining my old energy back and hopefully my sanity. Stay strong!
It sucks for sure
@@queen_pila you as well. ;/
@@ultralyrics1 PS, I’m on year 5, after leaving my 20 year marriage. Ugh
@@relied7934 I am.. I survived a child of of fear and walked on eggshells. I do believe it’s just my fate in life… I survived that and May I say almost thrived. I have forgiven my mother, she’s apologized, sought help. Old news in my life. Then my ex husband of 20 years,.. wooow how he duped me at first until I was stuck. Until I escaped. Then he stalked me. Here I am five years later . Same embarrassing tale.
The narcissist's low to no empathy causes them to be jealous and envious of others. This can lead into feelings of anger and hatred within them and when this happens they can become very vindictive towards you. Narcissists seem to thrive on drama and chaos, keep your distance from them as much as you can. Good video and topic Dr Carter.
Hard to keep distance when they adopt you as an infant. Even after you learn to walk, it's hard to get away. Where can a baby go?
@@lindac6919 Yes narcissists target the weak and the vulnerable, very sad.
"They approach relationships (of all kinds )with an ownership mindset! The closer you get to them..."
This is a word I never heard of until I met one behaving that way. At first I thought the actions were weird, then I realize it's on purpose and calculated.
“Weird” is a word my kids and I have learned to pay attention to now dealing with people. When someone behaves in a “weird” way, it doesn’t necessarily point to narcissism but it definitely indicates we need to be aware of the greater possibility of narcissism.
@@AlwaysStampinVideos Thank you for pointing that out. It's never good to judge others because they are different. I guess my meaning for "weird" is that the action baffled me and I couldn't understand it. Some weird can be good and touching, but some weird can also be destructive and demeaning, which is the type I was referring.
@@flightydancer I didn’t indicate I meant “weird people.” I said “behaves weird.” If someone says they will be somewhere to pick you up at 10:00 and then they don’t show up and you call them at 10:15 and ask them if everything is ok because they were suppose to be there at 10:00 and they say they decided to just not pick you up- that’s weird. If you think that’s “touching,” well, ok but I personally think that’s weird. That kind of weird when added to a entire set of other disrespectful patterns tends to lead to narcissism. Sadly, the English (edited to say… the English language, that is) is part of the problem. You see weird as “touching.” I see weird as somewhat inconvenient, sometimes annoying, and many times disrespectful. I see “touching” as kind, courteous, helpful, thoughtful. Being disrespectful is never “touching.” It’s just downright weird when someone tries to convince me they are a respectable person and then they do disrespectful things toward themselves and/or others. That’s just me. You and I can disagree tho.
@@AlwaysStampinVideos I guess is a word choice problem I made so sorry about that, but thank you for clarifying your side. Cheers.
@@AlwaysStampinVideos I had that happen to me with a friend. She’d agreed to drive me to airport for my first “big job” abroad. I waited and waited getting more n more anxious until finally I got a taxi to airport. I just made it to the plane (last one to board and announcement calling me to board on the airport tannoy, the whole 9 yards of travel anxiety). She’d did it on purpose as she was jealous of the uptick in my career. That was just a “friend”. My ex was 10 x worse and totally sabotaged my life. I’m living like a near hermit now far far away from people/close relationships. I’ve seen too much of people’s insecurity and subsequent cruelty. No more no more.
Maybe the desire for superiority…the “mindset of control”, etc.
True ❤
Absolutely. They try a suppress you so much that you can't breathe!
Jealousy
Contempt
Bitterness
Competition
Self loathing
Incompetence, cowardice, ignorance, selfishness,greed, Perversions of various types and conceit
Liers, mean trouble makers, jealous, fit throwing toddlers,2faced, deceiving bullies. They are fn idiots
Vanity
@@fainitesbarley2245 well, it’s been my experience that some covert narcissists are very good at humble bragging and playing the not so conspicuously vain. Flamboyant no longer guarantees narcissism.
@@jamesrutter4100 at least they know how to “play” incompetence. They know good and well what they’re doing. And they’re are NOT stupid.
Narcissists need all the help they can get. If they worked as hard on themselves as they do on their victims, they would break free from their bondage.
What about if you try to hold them accountable for their toxic behaviors and they say you're being vindictive by bringing up the abuse? They seem to view accountability as vindictiveness.
This! 🎉
Keep in mind they have poor insight. So do what you know is wise and let them have their interpretation.
@@SurvivingNarcissism TY! Yes you’re right, we can’t control how others see us but the worst for me is the character assassination ? that spelling doesn’t look right but spell check says it is 🤔. Anyway the smear campaign and their narrative being pushed when you’ve essentially done nothing, is brutal. Healing is so lonely for me.
Thank you for all you do-what a gift you give us 🙏🏻.
Also it feels like a spiritual battle to me-which helps me stay close to my growing values.
🔥💪🏻🌹🙏🏻
@@SurvivingNarcissism feels like a stalemate. I think their behaviors are narcissistic and they think mine are. I dropped the rope and walked away. I couldn't keep fighting to have my boundaries acknowledged or respected.
They are incapable of any interior self-insight; it is all external blaming!😢
I know this mindset very well.
In reality they cut off their nose to spite their face!
I’ve always found their vindictiveness so unsettling. Like narcissists rejoicing in a nasty way when talking about how God will punish such and such for some things they did to the narcissists. And those things can be as minor as disagreeing!
Raging (solipsistic) fury against perceived "threats" (past, present, or future) to "absolute entitlement".
This comment reminds me of an experience I had recently when I needed to set boundaries and walk away from someone who is manipulative and uses people to dump her judgmental opinions on and to get sympathy and attention. She exploded into a temper tantrum worthy of a toddler! She was going on and on without coming to a point related to the topic (just complaining until I couldn't keep track of WHAT she was talking about) and when I calmly stood up and said "now my boundaries are being violated" (with the intention of walking out of the ""conversation" instead of allowing myself to be her captive/prisoner to her blabbering), she went crazy. It was like throwing a match into a puddle of gasoline. She shouted that I am not "better than" her, that she came to this community center every day (like she was OWED something for that????) and was never coming back again. It took the staff a long time to calm her down.
She showed her "cards" more when she yelled that she listened to me for 3 hours. It was a short group discussion about boundaries, and I didn't speak more than a few minutes about the topic, not dumping emotionally or playing the victim card in my life story or indulging in a monologue - just illustrating mostly how people have to negotiate in relationships, and when someone does NOT show respect for your needs by negotiating, you have to distance yourself instead of assuming responsibility for their garbage and knocking yourself out to carry the "relationship" by yourself at your expense. There was healthy back-and-forth.
I have heard and seen her do things before that were obviously designed to make others the prisoner of her diatribes, and it is obvious from what she said in her tantrum that she looks for every opportunity to "hog the stage", sees interactions as a chance to dominate others, and some type of competition for attention/control, and considers others to be OBLIGED to put up with her self-centered behavior.
One of the staff said to me that she lives alone (so? Me too!) and is lonely and we should be patient with her.
A week later, on separate occasions I heard her yapping away at someone who obviously didn't know how to end the diatribe in which they apparently were being held captive. One way I knew this was because they said very, very little, and she spoke very loudly and at great length.
I got her number when I previously heard her preface her "contribution" to a discussion by saying "I have manners. I am not going to go on and on but only say a sentence or two, because I have good manners!" Then she yapped and yapped and yapped. So, obviously, she did not like having to hear other people out and was willing to imply that anyone who didn't listen to her go on and on and on must be RUDE people. She insulted everybody right out of the box!
Most people seem to just tune her out instead of drawing a line. Enabling, in other words.
I will just completely avoid her in the future, and if I need to get away from her incessant attention seeking in a group setting, I will go to the bathroom and then not go back. She is so full of herself that she probably won't even notice. She'll just keep those who stick it out captive.
Thank You so much Dr. Carter ❤ I have been the target of Narcissistic abuse since I was 11 yrs old. Mother & sister teamed up (teams up ) against me especially when people complimented me. I noticed this. They both are aggressive & hostile towards me. Yrs later while still living at home while they both kept coming at me, I was dealing with another situation of narcissistic abuse from 2 women who worked with me daily in the ministry. They both bullied and taunted me while we were in the ministry work. During that time, I'd go home and have to face my mom & sis bullying & taunting me. Then the next day, I'd have to deal with these 2 angry women who bullied me daily. I left home and got married. He turned out to be physically abusive and emotionally abusive. He died in a traffic accident, so my mom & sis returned to my life bringing the same chaos. I was an emotional wreck for yrs. Mom & sis are worse now than they were then. I finally learned about Narcissistic abuse through your Channel and now I subscribe and I am now No Contact since last yr. Thank You very much!!! ❤
So very very happy for you. You did not deserve that.
Try to look for people who are KIND and do not drink much alcohol. There are some nice widowers out there who are kind.
Similar. I'm so glad you are free.
Be very careful if approaching a new relationship. If they make you feel like a million dollars from very early on - start running and don’t look back.
Every time i watch one of your videos it feels like weight is lifted off my shoulders, and i can hold my head that little bit higher after years of being stamped on. Thank you.
I agree and youtube channels like this have helped a great deal, and I am grateful for it.
Very true! They think they are cheated. They're trying to make people around them join their ongoing pity party.🥳🤯
This is something that my husband excels at. I've realized how unstable and dangerous he is only as more time passes since I left a few months ago. I don't hate him, but I must care for myself free of his influence and presence in my life.
You can leave someone without hating them.
They had to shute Old Yeller - and he was a GOOD dog!
@@lindac6919 of course that's the case. But I only left him 4 months ago after a few years of emotional and verbal abuse. It would be quite natural for me to have a phase of hating him, but both prayer and watching these videos have helped me to have a deeper understanding to where I am without hate for him. I think that's noteworthy and a good place to be in my healing.
The scales only finally fell from my eyes on my 70th birthday when his actions led me to do a lot of research on the Internet and came across the term narcissism for the first time. Suddenly everything made sense. We still live in the same house, but separately, sometimes cordially but other times he disappears for weeks into his own angry world, and I do not see him. Now I relish those times and let him get on with it. He is 82, so separation is not really an option now.
1. desire to inflict pain using mockery, "jokes", ridicule (to turn the tables on their pain)
2. envy (want to be the special one)
3. want you to understand their needs (desperate to feel heard)
4. approach relationships as ownerships (you exist to make me needed)
4. want to be admired (powerbrokers are on top)
5. do not accept responsibility
6. scorekeepers (fear being a loser)
Feel like they've been cheated; carry trouble inside themselves.
That sounds exactly like my aunt and my mom is narcissistic and is on board with her, I hate my family
My ex boss is this way. Every time someone quits, she wants to punish them, blame them, and be vindictive toward them, instead of realizing maybe it's her. Everyone is leaving her company in droves, but she still doesn't realize that she is the problem, not her employees.
Been going through this for 33 yrs with my husband, never a nice word , always being put down, being cheated on, having my heart ripped out because in his eyes I'm not good enough, I'm just somebody that he can destroy over time. At this point in my life I no longer have ANY feelings for him, I can't stand to hear or see him...I avoid him as much as I can. I stay out of the house and away from him as much as I can. I don't acknowledge him at all. I hate him so much where I can't stand to even look at him or hear his voice. Well off to another WONDERFUL day.
I feel the same.
I don’t understand marriage
the constant need to remind you of your wrongs wears a person down. they don't acknowledge that. they just get mad at the victim because they don't endure the constant onslaught of questions, accusations, and negative commentary-but we do. it breaks a person, for better or worse.
My sister, who demonstrates narcissistic behavior, banged on her table after I refused to talk to her. I jumped, but felt like laughing. I have gone no contact and will not go back. She is almost blind, not well and needs constant care. As time goes by I'm healing of guilt, false sense of responsibility and her poor behavior.
A few of my narc siblings will wait years if they have to to " get you back ". If I say " No" , have a healthy boundary, if they try to gaslight or provoke me and it does not work. PlusI haved stopped Fawning ! They get mad with me and wait to get me back. ( Yes. I know it sounds crazy) They dig a ditch for me and fall in it ! Themselves . Right now I know my brother has revenged planned because I said " No" to something. (. Healthiest thing I have ever started doing for myself). .... Sisters will gaslight try and provoke , or just plain insult and put me down overtly/passive aggressive via. Text and voice call........my my my I thank God for the knowledge I am learning now............saying no, boundaries .......Not giving them Access to my home. Is/ has caused a new. Revenge campaign.....but now that I understand I know to expect. But never really know what type. They are clever especially the older brother........
It's alot. Posting is therapeutic. Thank you ☺️
.......and they do it to each other.
So true! They have no problem waiting years to get back at you for some perceived hurt you supposedly caused them. They keep meticulous score, and they will come out on top of the "competition", no matter how long it takes.
The ownership point of view drove me crazy in my marriage!! They are also mocking birds, they regurgitate how you speak and what you say bc they don’t know anything.
My narcissist-friend insisted on inviting someone to our regular Friday night dinners. Unfortunately, for him, his friend and I seemed to get along and when he found out that we had gone to a couple of concerts together he was furious. "You CANNOT see each other without me being invited because I was his friend first!" YIKES.
They’ll never give a real compliment either.
Thank you Dr Carter, it's good for us all to consider the pain and dysfunction that lies behind the narcissistic personality. I feel so sad for my lonely, arrogant covert narcissist brother, now elderly, who leaves a lifetime of absolutely devastated relationships in his wake. I understand the terribly painful back story that went into his making, and wish with all my heart he would get help. I've had to distance myself from the maliciously toxic impact he's had on my life, and I know he's attributing all sorts of evil motives to this response. In so many ways it's a massive relief that he's now part of my past, but it's still so hard to love someone and walk away.
Stop wasting your feelings on such a person. He still has an impact on you because you don't let it go. You're not actually free from him.
My Sadistically Catholic "NOT'her" lust's for my Harm that allows her "evil" to baste in harm on me...😮
@Janclebro I'm so sorry that you've had to break contact with your narc brother. It is indeed VERY hard to have to walk away from family relationships.
At the age of 56, 3 years ago, I finally had to call it quits with my mother, after something so heinous I could no longer ignore how little she cares about my wellbeing. I didn't have a conversation with her about it, I just stopped communicating with her. No more phone calls or emails. She still once in a while randomly emails me, or calls and leaves a voicemail, as if nothing ever happened! But never once has she apologized. The thing is, she knows exactly what she did, because if she truly had no idea, she would have wondered WHY I am no longer talking to her. But she's never asked in 3 years!
Sadly, just like your brother, she has also left a lifetime of devastated relationships behind.
It is heart-wrenching to have to walk away from those we love, but we have to in these cases, to preserve ourselves.
@@ASMRyouVEGANyet Victim-blaming.
@@christinelamb1167 Thank you Christine. I've only just managed to effect the separation so it's still very fresh. The underhanded sabotage he's inflicted on me in the past few months is very fresh and I'm still trying to process it all.
Dr. C, you hit all of the high points. The destructive nature of the vindictive, malignant narcissist is devastating. It also becomes worse as they age. I left in my 60s and he was in his 70s after 32 years of a marriage that had turned abusive and was continually becoming worse. It was and is beyond difficult, and he died five months after the divorce, but he was even being vindictive from the grave. Yet not for five minutes did I regret leaving because life alone was better than life alone with him being abused.
Dr. C, I would love it if you would do a segment on the narcissist's black, icy stare when he is angry. Like a snake hunting -- and I have kept snakes, so I know what I'm talking about. I used to describe his two modes of anger as "rabid badger trapped in a corner" and "hunting snake." Hunting snake was more frightening than rabid badger.
How is he vindictive from the grave?
@@ASMRyouVEGANyet they are the gift that keeps on giving
@@ASMRyouVEGANyet My ex, now deceased, left our home to a distant relative. We lived together in that home for 20 years. That’s from the grave honey. The last will and testament. The ultimate discard.
@@ASMRyouVEGANyet
Your memory. It's flashbacks. You remember and feel the hurt.
You can learn to manage but can't erase the trauma.
Very scary. But yes good comparison I think BC covert narc would be SNAKE IN THE GRASS.
One narc family member "punished" me when I didn't react to her insults. So she just stepped them up and told a vicious story about me to everyone at the Thanksgiving table. It's best just to not hang out with people like that.
Right!!
Deciding not to be a part of dysfunction and call older siblings out at a safe distance. Has. Caused vindictiveness from them. .....I am on the second half of my life. And I tell whoever is reading....it is never never never too late to change your life start saying no ,Join team healthy....etc. Yes it's hard. Keep at and it gets easier. Yes you may say: I wish I would have made this decision long ago.........well you made it now ! Don't let family loyalty shame you into staying in a pit of misery and dysfunction. There is help out here for all who want it. ( Sympathy for people who come from trauma is good) but taking care of yourself is good/better.
Yes, I wish older siblings were discussed more often in relation to narcissism. My older sister is the golden child and a vindictive covert narc. She delights in putting be down, but always do so when no one is in ear shot. It is so confusing and devastating. I have been vocal about it and drew the line.
Same here. I only wish information like this was out decades ago.
@@drebugsita Same here with mine, she is a year younger but golden child. Have gone no contact.
Same here. Older brother who has become even worse over the years.
Exactly!!! I agree totally ❤ It makes my head spin to see how these vindictive smirking and arrogant people join together in battle formation against one person who is their own flesh & blood and did nothing to deserve this abuse from so called " family"
Narcissists are their own worst enemy. Sadly, they are the worst enemy of their children as well. Regardless, one of the things that helped me in healing was understanding that they don't get pleasure from pouring their pain onto others... I am just a bystander that gets slashed by the abundant pain that they cannot contain within themselves.
I hear "the narcissist gets pleasure..." and I think "No they don't... there is no pleasure in the seething pit of hell."
Oh but they LOVE to hurt us and take great pleasure in seeing our pain.
@Fred Hubbard That might be true in your case, but for myself that isn't true. My mother (and other narcissists I've had the terrible misfortune of being involved with) take not only pleasure, but DELIGHT in hurting me. They love it! I've seen the evil look of satisfaction in their eyes, and the smirk of derision and giddy happiness after inflicting their knife stab.
@@christinelamb1167 One day, you will realize that they are tormented by their own shame. Their "pleasure" is not a deep and abiding pleasure, and causing pain will not/cannot be pleasure in any meaningful sense.
They last time I saw my mother was less than a month before she died. She burst into anger, and started screaming at me to leave. I had travelled 8 hours to see her, and the sight of me threw her into a rage. Is that pleasure?
She died terrified and lonely. Is that pleasure? Sure, she thought she was clever for doing the things she did, but from my world view, that is neither pleasure nor happiness. I do not want to die like that!
@@fredhubbard7210 the “pleasure” is dragging you down to her level where she may be comfortable. It’s not really pleasurable but familiar. These types want one to be in prison with them.
I would agree but think they must get some at least short term from the look of contempt and smirk on their face when putting one down. It can switch to total victim-hood if you try to hold them accountable, and they certainly don't enjoy that. But I'd bet they get dopamine when insult, gaslight, etc
He has Never done anything wrong. He told me at the beginning of the relationship. I ignored that big red flag. So he deserves to have what has been illegally taken. Worse the mask of this fake nice guy persona is so convincing. That others helped in the theft, slander, manipulative gas lighting etc. Now after multiple laws have been broken, and these others have now been involved so they may also face charges. I will not give in. I am not property or a slave. I will not acquiesce to be owned, stolen from and abused.
I never knew what I was being punished for, all my life. Displacement is what you've taught me today, Dr C.
Now I understand: I kept appealing to my mother to be honest, to stop judging and gossiping, and found her boasting ridiculously untrue. I appealed to her to tell the truth about her lies and I did not admire her, but saw her favouritism, manipulation, slander and contempt as things to admit and turn away from.
You explain why this "deserved total destruction".
Thank you! You are a wonderful teacher and have made a great difference to my life by educating me on this diabolical behaviour and showing me how to keep a safe distance emotionally.
I'm so thankful and enjoying my peaceful life.
Same here. It is hell.
Not all narcissists are vindictive. My father was a narcissist. He was an overt, controlling narcissist, who became angry if things didn’t go his way …he had no issue with showing his anger right there on the spot.And he would punish you …overtly punish you and tell you why it was happening and it was gonna be his way. He was strong …he was hard, and he was no messing around. My sister, on the other hand was much more coy in how she did things …she was a narcissist too and in the end it always had to be her way, but she would never tell you what was wrong or upsetting
… she would hold a grudge … keep it inside, and she would go behind your back, turn people against you, and in the end, she would vindicate herself in her eyes by doing something to you that she thought would equal it out. And that something could happen years later, and you not even understand why it was happening and what was the original problem.
Sad, sad sad. I’m glad they’re both out of my life.
So toxic
@@amuddymoose yes he was
It's too bad because I realized the hurt and loneliness underneath. If the love I gave wasn't enough, nothing is. It's all too much to explain in words, but you do an accurate job of touching the truths. It's very painful to go through this, to watch it happen to someone you care about, and you come to know there's nothing you can do about it. I still love, and I still care, but I can't share those things anymore with that person, and had to leave them behind. To find this in someone, in place of what you believed in, is devastating. It is a very harsh reality. Thank you for your work and accurate content.
So true. Having to mourn that relationship when there is no acknowledgement and they are alive and well is very strange and heartbreaking
They won't love you so why bother feeling sorry for them or loving them, they have the most evil minds on the earth and they don't deserve love or pity.
I completely identify with your feelings and experience. It took me a long time to identify what was happening, educate myself about it all, put into motion the recurrent wise advice, the “gray rock” and later on the “no contact” while accepting the reality and that the person you loved NEVER existed, it was all fake and part of the manipulation to keep you, to trap you in the abuse, and having to accept that you need to leave them behind, protect yourself, run and go “No contact”, find yourself again, and find peace and happiness away from there…. It is all. Dry challenging and difficult. But, it is important to recognize the truth and the wisdom from Dr. C and many others who absolutely know what they are talking about. I left and applied all the recommended strategies, even if contra natura! So now, while I am working with the legal system, the animal is SO injured that is lashing out in the few things it can… punishing my “daring” ability to remain No contact and free and independent… out of reach… But with all and the difficulties and challenges, I am SO much better off without the daily abuse, put downs, absurd mockery, immaturity, blame shifting, conflict creating, absurd lack of joy or respect for the things that are and should always be sacred in a home and in a family…. So, I feel your pain, I understand your pain, and WE are not alone in this unfortunate journey with these very very damaged individuals. God speed! Chin up! You can be happy and move forward! We can heal and we have survived! Much peace from this being who is at the beginning of the legal battle.
I want to fall out and hit the floor hearing you say score keeper. Direct quote of something that was said to me.
Before you know about what and who they are, their lashing out or need for control can also come in the form of the silent treatment.
Depending on your situation, sometimes the silent treatment is for the best.
@@jodizellmer994 That's exactly right! 😊
@Jodi Zellmer that is why I prefaced my comment with "before you know who and what they are". I would really appreciate some of that now. I've also noticed that when you suggest they shut the hell up (be quiet) or go elsewhere, they will try harder to get your attention.
I'd take SILENT treatment anytime compared to raging grandiose and was a huge raging MALIGNANT narcissist.
When someone tells long, endless, self-aggrandizing stories without letting anything else talk, their giving the silent treatment is good!
This is such a good level headed psychologist. Thank you Doc Carter.
You're welcome.
I'm so happy to find channels like this one as well as all the others an narcissism. I'm finally starting to feel like I'm not insane and that EVERYONE is out to get me! Thank you Dr. C and I hope Gus is doing well!
I used to feel like this. I'm glad I found this channel. Take care 🙏
No your NOT crazy! Yes they are out to get you!
Very insightful. My daughter's mother has a lot of these traits. She's the most hateful person I've ever met and it's been impossible to co-parent with her. It's been hell in family court. I sometimes lose sight of the fact that there is a lot of fear that underwrites her behavior and a lot of other unresolved issues. It's hard for me to empathize given the things she has done and continues to do to me.
You don’t need to empathise. They wouldn’t even feel it. In fact, as Dr Carter has explained it here, they will do anything to avoid facing up to the fact that they are damaged. You just have to be aware of the situation and concentrate on making sure that you and your daughter get through this as best you can. Your daughter has two parents and, hopefully, you can be a role model and stable and supportive even if her mother is not.
My neighbor who has tried to tell me how to live including joining her home based church I learned watches me bring in groceries. In a group I run she called me out as going to the gym and shopping. Well no. I'm finally getting medical and dental care. When I explained she said she was the victim! I see now her life is overwhelming. I am blessed to finally have some good things in my life and I Iove the peace and quiet of my home.
Home based church? WTF is that 😂😂😂
@@ASMRyouVEGANyet Whoa! Watch your language, please. My neighbors have a home-based church. It’s a gathering of like-minded Christians who conduct their lives in a faith-based manner. They have dinner and a prayer meeting & fellowship mid-week, and conduct a service on Sundays. From what I observe, this is a group of like-minded adults, aged mid-50s to 80s, semi-retired to retired, whose children are grown adults on their own. No, this is not some alt-right, conservative bible-banger, proselytizing group of old folks. They share a common bond of life’s experiences and a committed belief in Christ. We all have residential lots of over an acre, with fairly large houses. They’ve committed their living/dining (great room) to their church, which is registered with our city, so they receive a break on their property taxes; however, they never intended for their church to be profitable, as they work regular day jobs, hoping to retire within 5 years. A portion of the house heating, AC, and electricity costs are shared by donations from the congregation. Their congregation probably consists of 3 dozen folks, and parking has never been an issue, with no impact upon our street. Our neighbors are kind, caring folks who absolutely live by the Golden Rule.
@@ASMRyouVEGANyet go away. This is not a place where you belong.
@Dr. Nancy Living-Co-creatively That's pretty creepy that they watch you like that. Kind of "stalk-y"! It's none of their business what you do in your personal life. I would stay as far away from the as possible!
@@ASMRyouVEGANyet it is common. It's at her daughter's house. Son in law is minister. I'm not interested. Cross between Christianity and Kabbalist I think. Women's heads always covered and always long dresses. Not my cup of tea.
My father told me he hated his father (he was an evil man and I understood why). What I didn't understand is why would he want me to hate him because that's what happened! My mom felt shamed afraid and less than and in turn I grew up afraid and less than. Now in my mind that's vindictive. They dress it up in bells and whistles but that's just 'stuff'. What they needed to do was stop the pass the parcel of toxicity, but no in their angry vindicteness they don't deal with their feelings and past they pound on their kids instead and when you don't live up to their needs it will get vindictive and you end up receiving every horrible thing done to them ✌
It equates to
‘I’ll show you/ them - they ‘etc etc etc
the boss is in -
the boss is back
Thank You Dr Carter for your encouragement daily. Where are men like you.
Thank you for your support and wisdom dr Carter. It feels so good to be able to get validation and help from people who are kind and loving .
Sadly, no matter how much we delve into their pain, I don’t feel sorry. They are mean and evil and hurt ppl and I have no care for how they got there which may read as mean but I’m being honest.
In primary school we had a terrible male teacher. We were approximately 10 year olds. He had a terrible temper. We, the children, had to try and make out what mood he was in. The boys in the class were beaten with a leather belt folded double. And in front of the whole class.
Nowadays I think he was a narcissist.
That’s terrible!!
I had a sixth grade teacher like this. (1970’s)
@@user-hx7mi7ml8u sadistic sociopath
...My Dad had a terrible temper also...Our Mom taught us how to gauge his mood & we walked on eggshells & kept out of his way...
Our Mom taught us that having that fear of our Dad & his terrible temper....kept us safe...as we kept our distance...
Dr. C. Thank you once again!!
My 4 decades with the deceased husbands Family is coming to a Total End. Since his death 14 months ago, and me educating myself about Narcissium , by listening to you...Dr. R. and a great therpist....have come to realize that moving is my best option.....away from his family who All share in the narcissist behavior. Info this for my emotional and physical health. Will take with me the Sweet Memories and leave the Bitter here with them. Thank you again for helping me see the truth. Moving forward in North Catolina!! Happy and Free!!!🐾🐾🐾🐾🐾
Be free, Elaine!
Thank Dr. C.! You"re a Life Savor!!❤❤
I'm the most important person on the planet and I will make you pay for doing anything I don't tell you to do. A dictator in other words.
Yes I'm.sure he wanted to make me pay when he came back..last chance. He was wanting control as I had boundaries read to him..I chucked him again in week three
What's important is how do we deal with such people? These vindictive narcissists are dangerous and will seek revenge at the slightest threat. Stay ALERT. My friend had a similar situation with a house worker suspected of child abuse in one of the gulf countries. We reported the house worker to authorities in muscat, Oman. Hopefully they will take the issue seriously.
You sound a little vindictive yourself
The difficulty can be you never know what to expect or when. With my narc, I can never let my guard down from the first interaction of the day till the end.
Reporting isn’t being vindictive it’s being active
@@jamesrutter4100 WTF. Where did you get that impression?
Says a lot about you.
@@jamesrutter4100 go annoy someone else
Very valuable video, Dr. C. Thank you.
Yes, my ex-narcissist could never accept the fact that both of his parents were neglectful and hurtful to him, which created deep wounds, and he displaced the hurt from his parents' mistreatment onto me.
At the beginning of the narcissistic abuse, I could tell my narc husband's rage was not about me but a revenge on the wrong person. He keeps telling me he has a problem with my attitude but can't specifically say what I have done wrong.
@@fleshyme8828 It helps me now to understand it, but it did not make it right. I hope that you are doing well, Fleshy.
Thank you Dr. C. You're a paradigm of compassion and helpfulness and insight.
Thank you.
I feel vindictive towards the narcissist. I hate being this way, but I feel so hurt and angry. I want them to be punished, even though I’m aware they are punishing themselves already. The hurt can really make you feel feelings that you wouldn’t otherwise.
I need out! The prime offender no longer holds sway over me emotionally, but still collects my paycheck; this problem I am prepared to correct immediately. The bigger problem has become my nearly grown child who is addicted to my servitude same as the parent. I am hesitant to leave them on their own, or with the abuser they have been taught to emulate...but also not willing to take a flying monkey with me.
I knew for years that my narc had issues. I encouraged him with advice I would receive from my counseling or bring up things in books. What do you think? shut me down and exit stage left. Coward. Now that we are separated, filing for divorce, he wanted me to meet him at a counselor with pretense of going on himself, I guess? I did not take the bait. Yes, get a counselor, yes go weekly, on your own and not just two visits. If he goes, wonderful. Chances are he is blowing smoke again. Time will tell. It will not change our divorce. Thank you, thank you, thank you. Exit stage left.
Yep, I told my husband I was an individual and have my own individual thoughts and feelings. Then this same husband used that in his next mind controlling episode. I said, " Well good for you." and walked away.
Yes! You did it! On Team Healthy Dr. Les says " I don't think like you do" to a person like your husband. Say that to him next time. " I don't think the way you do". He will be baffled and stop abuse.
Disturbing, repulsive and horrible. Thank you for this! I think I already knew this but didn’t want to fully embrace it… I feel blessed to have fuller clearer insight on this! 💕⭐️
What sad sickos they really are, yes they must have pain to make others feel worse, thank you Dr. C and all others who are healthy. Keep doing you good folks let the nasty pasties do them.
Have compassion for them. Don't get angry calling mental ill names either. They want to make you crazy they are crazy maker. If you get angry they will say see everyone is like this!
...Competativeness, their need to put others down and so called "win" to feel better about themselves, power, punishment and how dare you speak up and have different thoughts opinions feelings experiences than me. How dare you be you. Against me. So dear narcissist: I am not against you I am IN Me. You have nothingness. I have Me. Good bye.
Thank you.
Siri
The competitiveness went the other way for me when I would voice a solution or idea that she wished she had voiced first. Then the vindictive behavior made me just want to congratulate her and just give her credit.
And then be quieter next time.
@@aaronkwolfe same. Whatever it took to just make them happy- I got to a point where I realized had to say, “fine” to their jealousy and just let them have their way. So glad you and I (and you too Siri) have finally seen the light!
(edited for clarification)
@@AlwaysStampinVideos Would that “happy” were possible. Finding ways to appease the vindictiveness became a life goal. For me, and the kids. Heaven help the victimized acquaintance who didn’t learn soon enough to just smile & nod and walk away quickly.
There is peace, not living in a minefield.
Yes. I gave it last chance it lasted three weeks as I had boundaries I read out to him. Day five he ranted and wanted control and projected his shit onto me . After saying he was much improved.... No. Hell
🌟 Let's keep going.
All narcissists act out in order to maintain their false self equilibrium in vindictive narcissist this is more pronounced to the point of desperation.
From my experience, evil drives these narcissists, especially malignant narcissists are evil doers.
"These are troubled people from the inside out!" Yep! For sure, Dr. C! And, deeply desperate, empty souls indeed craving the very things/qualities they try so hard to frustrate and destroy in us. Beyond sad! And, absolutely NOT about any of us on Team Healthy! Nope! Never was! It's all on them, as they continue to refuse to grow up and change for the better.When upset, they often resemble very smalll children having ongoing and very severe emotional meltdowns.
I appreciate the angle of, ‘this is a learning experience for myself’. While this in no way excuses abusive behavior it helps the victim to positively grow.
It's tough as hell being married to one. Impossible to live with. I had to leave after 25 years of marriage. Had to literally run for my life. Divorced 8 years now and still picking up the pieces of my life. Hasn't been easy but totally worth it. Peace is priceleas! Only by the grace of God did I make it out.
Dr.Carter is best in explaining all problems with narcistism . Never found better channel about narcististic relations . There is many good chanels but , he is nr 1( of course Its my opinion only)
The Narcissist mental illness individual is angry and gives misdirect rage on you. It's every day all day for that person. You're the reason they are unhappy and will let you know and punish you for being there for them. Dr. Les thanks for teaching me what displacement is. Good luck with your new series and hello to Gus. Don't get into a NPD 's space. Get out, get away. Let them deal with their problem and you get help for yourself why you want to be with that person, when you can be with someone healthy tomorrow.
Yes. Online interaction works. They cant Lie, manipulate, project etc. America’s Surveillance State.
I am a family psychotherapist and have found one of the worse abuses is when narcissists manipulate children (even adults) against the other parent.
This is the worse kind of vengeance & cruelty against for example, the mother. Sometimes this is also true coming from narcissist females.
And it’s very difficult to overcome because a mother can’t just be ok. with her own children abusing them by abandonment or blaming them & having almost complete distance from their grandchildren!
I'm going through that too.. it's so hard.. mean.. stay strong
I’ve lost all 3 of my adult daughters to my narc “husband’s” control.
Heartbroken. 💔😢💔😢
I wouldn't take it at face value when a person blames their spouse when sometimes it's the finger pointer that's actually instigated the chaos and parental alienation.
The one playing the victim may not be revealing the truth or is incapable of it.
Sometimes it's the mother not taking accountability for their part in the marriage and their own poor parenting.
She might have a fairy tale idealized idea of being married with children. When life doesn't match her unrealistic expectations the blame will be placed on the father and she will poison the children against him behind his back all the while she reaps the benefits of his hard work and remains married. My mom actually secretly bought a home to move into without him when the plan to sell their business and retire was put in motion. My dad was one of her scapegoats in our family.
Thank you Dr. C and Team❤🙏🔥
Wish you and all here a great day and a wonderful week!!
💪🙂👍
Thank you, Papu.
OMG, this describes my former friend to a 'T'! I so wish I knew this years ago when my former friend used to treat me so poorly.
They have their own set of rules. They want you to treat them like they are a Queen or Ki ng but will treat us with contempt and everything Dr. C has said. Vindictivness for sure. In my case my N sibling is a very jealous being and blames all her issues on everyone else. Including me! I finally had enough and after learning about them I am no longer close to her at all! I stay away at all costs. I think she is shocked by it because she thought the trauma we grew up with would make me stick around no matter what. It's sad but like Dr. C said they are troubled. It's best to know what your dealing with or they will destroy you. Thanks Dr. C. You have taught me so, much these past several months. I can see clearly now! Just like the song. 😊
When you see them picking up individual bits of gravel by hand , to put in their bland garden, tightly controlled...
Boy it felt good to finally call my narc neighbor a loser. Thats the magic word
Thank you, Dr. Les. Your material and extended knowledge on narcissism Can and are benefitting so many people devoted to understanding and surviving narcissism 🙌👏🙂❤️ You are so valuable not only for what you provide but as a beloved child of God.
You are putting so much good into this fallen World and are much appreciated. You and Gus -❤️❤️
I Will start Reading more of your material today.
Be blessed 🙂🌿🕊❤️
Dr C, I appreciate your including insightful reasons behind the narcissist’s hurtful behaviors. Please give us an understanding of the strong reluctance to enter therapy, which can be experienced as a terrifying existential crisis. Therapy may not always be a safe enough place to start the process. There are various preliminary approaches. I think most of us would agree, we don’t want to shame anyone by saying “they” won’t “get help.” In a way, the lashing out, itself, could be considered a cry for help.
What drives a malignant narcissist? Well, they are on the highway to hell, going to hell in a handcart, and the road to hell is paved with the bile from other narcissists.
Big loving hugs to Gus. Thank You Dr Carter, whenever I feel like I’m being hoovered I’m assured by your videos that it’s not me. I’m committed to being a person of peace.
So thankful for you and your videos, Doc. They were and are a game changer for me and my sons.
Thank you, Dr Carter. The constant berating, belittlement and accusations from my youngest brother and his narcissistic wife after our mother’s death almost made my head explode, and I have felt traumatised for years now. I have distanced myself from them as much as I can: I don’t see them and I’ve blocked them on the phone and on social media. The latter infuriated them, but it’s a relief to have them removed from our lives. Despite all this, I grieve the loss of my brother. A psych told me that his narcissistic wife will likely diminish him when he no longer serves her purposes. That’s sad, but I doubt I can trust him again after all the damage he’s done. Dr Carter, hearing you give perspective to my experience helps so much.
Being from a dysfunctional family situation and I myself admit that having resentment for my mom and grandmother which I have thought of doing all sorts of behavior behind their backs. The reason why is the severe emotional neglect. Even children who have endured the extreme severity of the emotional neglect I have had endured which drove me to get more vindictive than my grandmother as proof that I'm the stronger one. In reality I was only hurting myself as a way of getting back for the emotional neglect. Admitting how I feel is the best way to heal and to go forward on a healing journey.
He helped me to plant some seeds. In fact he said I will do that for you. For weeks he had me watering pots of soil with no seeds planted. 😞
Mine said “ You just aren’t doing it for me anymore “ and “ You had a love affair with Jesus so I’m justified in having affairs with other women.” Yikes!!! I know who’s behind that!
My mother married a man like this. Please consider what you're doing to your children when you put them into contact with these people. They have no interest in being kind to your children. If there are red flags heed them or your flesh and blood will pay the price for your honeymoon for the rest of their lives. He resents that I exist. That man has targeted me for over 30 years. I am supposed to get out of his way.
I’ve lost count of the amount of your videos I’ve watched in helping me understand & come to terms with the narcissist in my life, my older brother. He, in fact, ticks every box of a malignant narcissist. It is so ver painful for myself, and my elderly mother to realise who & what my only sibling has become. So thank you Dr. C. You’ve given me the knowledge & understanding to know what my Mum & I are dealing with, heartbreaking as it is. My Mum especially deserves so much better than to deal with all of this after a very challenging year of health issues, for whom my brother has done nothing. I’m Mum’s full time carer. My brother assaulted me physically recently, and is now financially abusing my Mum, his Mum! It beggars belief, and we are both in shock, angry & in despair. Grieving. We’re in a maelstrom of hurt, but at least we now understand. I can’t thank you enough, Dr. C, & Gus, for helping us make sense of such a awful situation. I’m almost beyond feeling pity for my only sibling, and feel torn between anger & compassion. At 61, I’m finally realising, I have to let go, and so is Mum, despite every paternal bone in her body. We’re both crushed at the reality we’re having to deal with. But at least, through you, we can now understand & begin our path to healing & peace. Thank you from the bottom of my heart for your insights and care.
You're quite welcome.
Alert proper authorities. Elder abuse in any form--verbal,financial,physical--is criminal behaviour. Interfering with a caregiver is equally criminal. Document via text,phone videos,etc. and let adult protective services know what up. Anything less,then you are enabling abuse. Toxic NPD's are capable of criminal actions to children and elders. NEVER leave them unattentended.
My heart goes out to you and your mom. I’m in the process of letting go of my daughter the narcissist. These videos have helped me get rid of the guilt. I felt in cutting her out of my life. Abuse is abuse no matter who is causing the pain. we all deserve respect, dignity, and civility. Keep watching the videos and stay strong my friend.❤
@@beverlyadams7205 Thank you. I wish you well in dealing with such a heartbreaking scenario. Family or not, abuse is abuse, and should never be tolerated. I hope you can lean into the words that Dr. C embodies. Dignity, respect & civility. May you find peace. ❤️
@@stingylizard Yes. You are right, and I have involved police & now a lawyer. I’ve a mountain of indisputable evidence, including medical reports & imagery pertaining to my assault. It’s only in the last couple of weeks we’ve discovered the financial abuse. It’s so awful, for both my Mum & I to try and come to terms with. But we are using our anger to fuel our resolve, and so grateful to Dr. C for his guidance at this difficult time. I appreciate your reply, and for our own self preservation are taking all necessary steps to ensure there are consequences for my brothers deplorable & unconscionable behaviour.
Peace and narcissism doesn’t exist!
That dog is just laying there in the background thinking, 'yeah, yeah, you keep on blabbering about other people, but I know all YOUR dirty secrets, Grandpa'.
Yes, coming to terms with inner turmoil makes sense. It's a step forward in breaking the ice 🧊 so to say.
Thanks for video Dr. Carter.
🙂👍 🧡
p.s. Gus is all about peace and love. 💛🦴🐕 🐾🐾💛