Is an intercooler upgrade really worth it? Let’s find out.
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- Опубликовано: 11 мар 2022
- Today we run through a few of the reasons why you will want to add, or upgrade the intercooler on your diesel.
The boys at Dats Cool Fabrication knock this one out of the park, as per usual.
It's so rare to see someone look at and discuss the system as a whole instead of just showing power and torque gains. You sir are one of few. Keep up the great work.
Thanks mate, hugely appreciated.
Thanks for making the time to show facts with before and after numbers this info is awsum and can be used across all applications your a legend knowledge is power cheers.
Your welcome mate, Data is king. With out data, all we have are opinions.
My new favorite you tube channel, thanks for sharing your knowledge!!.
No worries, I need to pull my finger out and put some more videos up for everyone.
Great video, very knowledgeable 😉👌🏴🇬🇧
Awesome torque gains!! The ZD Whisperer😎
Chasing efficiency/reliability is always worth the extra effort,any improvement for the least financial outlay is worth doing
100%, it should always be the top of the list as we do any mods. Improve efficiency.
Great video very informative! Cheers
Thanks mate, appreciate the comment.
Great vid, heaps of info for the crd patrol owners
Appreciate that mate. I have a habit of rambling on, but just enjoy sharing information with anyone who’s keen to listen. Hopefully it can help someone out.
Great video mate. I've just ordered a pwf intercooler kit for my px1 wildtrak, keen to get it tow tuned and see how it helps my egts
You’re combustion temps will thank you for it.
Good video , im my opion try water/meth injection esp in your climate as well ive seen 40hp and 60ft on a 3 ltr diesel engine straight 6 and V6 old school a newer type common rail stuff.
I suspect the horse power gain was mainly from the exhaust but impossible to say I guess. Still a great video.
I’d say you would be correct. I forgot about the exhaust at time of filming, it wasn’t until I was editing the vid I remembered. I’d have to assume the exhaust contributed to 80% of those gains before tuning.
Best vid ive seen for explaining intercoolers and afr.now whats ur thoughts on a wta intercooler?
WTA is amazing when the proper time and energy goes into designing and executing the install. But they overly complex and costly to set up properly compared to a good quality A2A. And you need to remember diesels usually stay on boost 24/7. So you intercooler needs to be twice the size for same power in a petrol, pumps and lines, plus the radiator needs to be massive to get rid of that heat to the atmosphere. So yep, really good, but usually just too complex for your average tourer.
Wow.....750+ degrees in 4th gear towing up Cooroy hill. That's craziness! I would have backed out of it way before then.
I know this hill very well as I live nearby and my poor old TD42 GU slows down at the mere sight of it!
I will definitely be forwarding this video to a mate of mine who has had the incredible misfortune of blowing up 2 ZD's on the exact same hill......and I'm wondering now if this extreme heat is what caused both failures??
We wouldn’t usually advise getting temps that hot, but it was to merely show just how hot these things run in stock trim. There’s probably hundreds, if not thousand out there every day hitting those kind temps.
Yeah those are pretty scary temps.
I start sweating when I see my EGT's going above 500....even if it's only for a short time.
But what I've also noticed is this generally happens going up a steep hill lugging it in 5th gear, and dropping it back to 4th usually results in it dropping back into the mid 400's.
Just discovered your channel, just had an over heating issue yesterday 2016 bt50 only done 36k was not driven for years I've had it for a year no prob Turbo over heating was wondering if bigger intercooler would do the trick, Cheers Mate
Doubtful. Intercoolers remove intake air heat. Your engines cooling system and oiling system is more responsible for keeping the engine cool.
is possible to get a good torque, AFR, power curves tuning a zd30DI?
Great job mate! What intake temp should I look for after the intercooler? I live in Greece and I have a 1kz. Thank you
Ideally, as close to ambient temp as possible.
Great video!
Whats your opinion on everyone blocking their grill with big Spotlights?
Does it reduce cooling much?
Thanks
Radiators and air to air intercoolers all relay on good airflow. It’s best not to put solid objects in front of them.
Now he’s for a front mount best to blank off or change bonnet to non scooped version ? As the scoop will effect the air flow create Neg pressure
Ahhhh yes. The theory is sound on this one. And it’s something we get asked ALOT, is truly love to do testing in a wind tunnel. But that’s just not realistic, is it worth swapping to no scoop and would it truly make much of a difference? That I couldn’t answer. It’s the same as the plastic air dam patrols have under the radiator, most don’t have them anymore as people rip them off 4wding. Is that the cause some Td42’s over heat? Should we raise the back of the bonnet to help air escape, which in turns help air enter the front of the vehicle through rad/intercooler? Lots of theories mate, me only advice to people is do it and test it out. Then let me know so I can tell others.
Where do you recommend fitting EGR probe before the turbo or after the turbo on a 1hd ft
Hi mate
Thanks for all your great vids. I have a ZD30 CRD. Re TB48 swap, i would like to get your thoughts on the Mishimoto Racing Thermo which opens at 60 degrees. More $ but some 15 degree cooler again than the TB48. Appreciate your thoughts.
Colder isn’t always better. You want your coolant temp to be 80c+. It ensures the oil get hot enough to boil out any moisture.
@@boostedsagas884
Thanks mate. Yes makes sense. See u in feb for a remap.Have a great 2024.
This was an extremely informative video. Thanks. Can reducing intake temps through an upgraded intercooler and tune also help keep coolant water temps down too? Even if only passively? I have a MN Triton with the 4D56 (2.5L) motor, the model which has the known factory overheating issue due to a pitted block surface. No symptoms for me so far fingers crossed / touch wood, my CWT stays around 87-90 unless I'm flogging it up a big hill. But would adding an intercooler and tuning be beneficial in reducing the risk of that happening? I know the radiator is kind of a separate system, but would reducing IATs help keep the whole engine cooler and reduce CWTs too? Or is it best to focus on a bigger radiator, piping, thermostat changes etc.?
The more heat we can remove before it enters the engine, the better. In certain vehicle, yes an upgraded cooler and clean tune will help keep egts in check, lower combustion temps, means less heat introduced into the block and head, and eventually into the cooling system.
For a vehicle which as yours, with known issues, it’s tough to say whether it would be worth the effort or not. Performance wise, you’ll defiantly notice a difference, as far as cooling, I think it may only help if you actually had an issue.
@@boostedsagas884 That makes sense. Thanks for your quick reply. I'm interested in getting an upgraded aftermarket intercooler before tuning - I like the idea of cooling everything down and helping efficiency.
One aftermarket intercooler claims 30% more surface area (slightly thicker than OEM), another claims to add a whopping 120% (it is over double the size of the standard cooler in width, so makes sense). I'm wondering if going for the 120% intercooler will have any negatives to be mindful of? Turbo lag? Assuming that I get a tune to optimise everything.
Im upgrading in IC size on my zd30 DI because my stock IC is leaking. Should I do just the size upgrade or should I do size upgrade with a fan? I ask because I'm curious if the fan has significant benefits
Need? No but is better to have it than not
I got a 2024 Integra A-spec that I am debating upgrading the intercooler. I just want a fun daily driver. Should I expect that 10hp gain? Also, is it worth upgrading the intercooler outlet and charger pipes? I do plan on eventually tuning the car when the warranty is close to being over. I am also likely upgrading the intake and probably a catback exhaust. Not sure if that would affect the power gains at all. I am obviously new at this.
Intercoolers can be even more important in spark ignition engines. As high intake temps reduce timing, which reduces power. So yeah, for sure worth upgrading especially if you intent on tuning the engine at a later date. Intercooler Pipe size doesn’t make a big difference to power gains. Money would be better spent on exhaust, intake, and tuning.
This video basically convinced me to get mine, and I'm glad I have, will post results
Awesome Man, keep us updated.
Update?
@@crispyworm2178 going in next week
Any results?@@WEEKENDER4X4
TMIC will never perform as good as a FMIC. W2A can make it easy on pipes but complicates when it comes to rest of gear.
As for the comments on running temps, I have to differ, the factory thermostat sits at 81-82° I have never hit 90° plus, even playing in the mud or long pulls up hill climbs.
iv recently put my front mount to top and it runs so much hotter on my td42 only reason i went top is because in 35-45 degree heat coolant temps sit on 100 degrees but iv only got a standed 2 core rad and standed fan, would going back to front be better for coolant temps? looking a hpd intercooler
TeeDee’s are just one of those motors that can be hit and miss. Honestly your probably better off making sure the radiator is in good working order, up grade fan and fan hub, ensure thermostat and water pump are working. Possible even give the coolant/block a good high pressure flush. See if these things help with coolant temps, if it does, try the intercooler back at the front. Most vehicles will run cooler, with cooler combustion temps from a more efficient intercooler. But if your cooling system is trailing struggling, any reduction in airflow, or added heat stress in front of the rad, may cause issues. Generally speaking though, front mounts won’t cause a drama on a car that has a effective cooling system.
Do you think more expensive tube & Fin intercoolers are worth it vs Bar & plate intercoolers? Specifically on diesels below 200HP?
I’d probably stick with bar and plate, being thicker construction, I think they will handle a 4wd and flexing of the chassis a little better. Honestly just buy the best intercooler that fits your budget. Getting the absolute maximum from the intercooler is more for those who are pushing the limits of their system. Your average set up, will just appreciate having a nice big cooler over the stock item, or lack of.
What can you guys do for GU rd28? I have a gt2052v and a performance module and front mount intercooler, running 25psi but I find maf voltage causes a fuel cut in 3rd/4th in higher rpm , changing the boost down doesn't help
If your positive it’s maf voltage, I’d look at fitting a boost cut defender or “maf voltage clamp” old school tech people used to run on turbo petrol stuff back in the day. Should allow your maf to work normally, but limit its voltage to keep ecu happy.
Where are you located would love to get my zd30 gu tuned, can you tune di ?
For someone who doesn’t have anything installed to monitor egts, will the intercooler show a change in ect’s ? Just for a monitoring and comparison purpose
Usually I’d say no. ECT’s should be nice and stable regardless of EGT’s. Of course they are directly related, but if your ECT’s are getting that hot, I’d be looking at the cooling system or tune. You really need to do a big FMiC or similar upgrade to see any noticeable difference from a intercooler. The closer to ambient temps we can get the charge air too, the better.
Your egt "max" measured pre or post turbo? If post how much higher would you expect the egts to be if measured pre?
We usually speak post turbo. from testing on a few different names/models, it’s nothing to see a 150-200c drop across the turbo.
Other thing to keep in mind Going from No Intercooler or Top Mount with short intake Track to a Front mount with Long Intake Track.
There WILL BE an increase in Turbo Lag there is no way around that other than Anti Lag System.
Top mount to Front mount is often 1.5-2.5 seconds additional Turbo Lag.
Nope. That’s simply not true. There will be zero noticeable lag increase, your talking about milliseconds. Nothing any body would ever be able to actually notice or feel. What you will feel, is the improvement in response and drive ability from the cooler dense air entering the engine. What you need to remember is your talking about air, not a fluid. If you increase the length of plumbing and want to pump a fluid through from start to finish, yes it will take longer, the longer the pipe is. We are talking about air, the air is already in the intake tract, all we want to do is pressurise it. That’s more related to your turbo and tune then pipe length. Of course if you go to the extreme of adding 20mtrs of intake tract, yeah it’s gonna take a bit longer. But again, nothing you would truly notice.
@@boostedsagas884 Air is a fluid
and planes work on fluid dynamics
Maybe ok for a bigger turbo but a TD04 at stock 14psi suffers from lag as its tiny turbo
Are the afrs before the tune safe to run if you dont have the funds for tune at the same time?
Can’t say I ever what the AFR’s where like in this video, if you can’t afford a tune straight away, you can use two things. You’re eyes and a egt gauge. If you’re seeing soot out the tail pipe while it’s on boost, it’s too rich, if your egts are going north of 500c in the dump, it’s probably too rich also.
What's a ballpark figure for price on installing a alphatech and tuning it on a zd30 crd?
Looking around $1900 for the Alpha Tech, installed and tuned mate.
i have small diesel car, its opel 1.7tds, i have 2 stock intercoolers so i thought if it worth it to mount 2 stock intercoolers on it. is it going to gain any power or it just does not worth it ??
Likely better to fit one larger better quality intercooler.
kinda off topic, for turbo charge diesel, what's the correct exhaust diameter? 2.5 or 3in?
Depends on your power level. Anything under 300hp 3’ is more then enough. But larger diameters can change the sound and note if the exhaust.
Have you done many 4jj1's? I've got an 09 isuzu in a GQ and looking at my options. Planning on just a set of +30's. I know remapping the transtron is a little tedious but is there any benefit to driveability by going an aplhatech or ecushop?
Yeah brother, do plenty of 4J’s with the Alpha Tech. You’re dead on, the Trans can be done, but the main benefit of the Alpha Tech is live tuning, and multi-map select. Plus we can add limiter on it too, and let’s be honest, 4J’s are built for Limi.
@@boostedsagas884 sweet.
Is the alphatech plug and play on an 09 model or is it like the ecushop touch combo where it's spliced into the loom at the ecu?
Yeah I get the live tuning side from your end makes life way easier but at the end of the day do you really end up with a noticeably better drive?
What's the go with the limiter? All I see is gaye ass videos of people 'showing off' their limi while reving in the car park. I can see there might be some slight gains in driveability where you get full power until limiter vs a slow tapering of power as your reach 4000rpm.
@@bennyjahmin3953 we can get a plug in harness, which plugs in at the sensors on the engine. But the module still needs to be configured for you’re engine and tuned. So they not “plug and play” as such. I wouldn’t say it’s “noticeably better drive” just that we have finer control over the tune as it’s live tuned, so you can spend more time dialling it in, not waiting for a file to load into the ecu. The main advantage, like I said, is the multi map. Having a clean AFR for towing or heavy working duties, then throwing more fuel at it for a higher power tune for normal running around with out the weight on the back. People will often say “my chip made more power then a remap” the main reason this is, is because you have the ability to choose the lower safer tune, or the higher powered tune. When we remap vehicle, we have to set it up to be safe under all conditions. Whether you’re driving around town, or towing 3t up the beach. That usually means we keep clean AFR’s so you can’t melt the thing to the ground. With the Alpha Tech, you get that as tune 1, then tune 2 we can add more fuel. Depending on the set up, you can have a 20-100hp difference between the two tunes.
@@boostedsagas884
So a little different to install than the ecushop. I'm a little hesitatant with splicing into the loom as I've put this motor into a GQ and am very particular about the wiring and don't really anyone else to mess with it if you know what I mean.
Have you got dyno sheets from a 'safe' remap comparing stock and just +30 tips?
@@bennyjahmin3953 what’s the rest of your mods? Or literally everything stock, and just the 30’s? Next thing will be collie driveline vs patrol, maybe a little difference there. But a collie with pre dpf turbo, and 30’s should roll off an easy 180hp and 450+nm.
Does all this mean a intercooler upgrade makes it safer to push the tune a little harder?
To put it bluntly, yes. If your intercooler is struggling to remove heat at the moment. If we can remove 50-100c from your intake temps, then we can add a little extra fuel to make a little more power and torque.
Hey mate, I’ve got a zd30 CRD, and have put the turbo smart wastegate actuator on it, rather than a tillex, what are your thoughts on the turbo smart ones? So I’ve basically removed the computer controlled part of the turbo
Basically does the same job mate. We just prefer the Tillix as the adjustment is easier. To adjust spool rate on the Positive pressure actuators, you have to remove it and adjust the preload. Can often be very time consuming if you need to make adjustments for certain set ups.
@@boostedsagas884 yeah ok, awsome mate thanks, seems to be working well, boosting early on, and holds well. Defiantly going to FMIC after watching this vid. Any tuners in Vic you recommend?
@@boostedsagas884 tips for a long life of the turbo?
I have a remap and a tillix (love it) but I have the tillix set so the turbo kicks in as early as possible. Does this hurt the turbo? My last turbo only lasted two years.
The best mod as far as boost control was to ditch the mess of Dawes/Tillix setups and their complication. Positive actuation is smooth and predictable. The use of a lower pressure actuator of say around 12PSI will allow the use of a EBC (Electronic Boost Controller) and set high/low for cold engine/cruise then to full tit. The TS actuators have notorisly bad spring ratings and TS won't even reply to emails or messages about their stuff. I had a DeiselSmart unit and to be honest, way simple to use and not the issues of the TS unit.
@@ojbarberena7090 it’s more how aggressive you get on and off the gas that may effect long term reliability. I’d stay around that 20-21psi and it should hold on for a fair while. Or if it fails again, upgrade to something like a UFI ZL30. Which is warranted for 30psi. We run these around 27-28psi, and haven’t had an issue yet. Besides one person over boosting it to nearly 40psi and chewing out the thrust bearing. We found this out after UFI replaced it under warranty (good on them). Then they took the car to their local dyno shop, who aborted the dyno run cuz boost went past 37psi. The shop then rang and told us, which was amazing as we have zero Affiliation with them, but they understand what it’s like to have customers lying about shit and trying to get warranty. And another one starting with no oil in the motor, and the poor turbo failing before he even moved the car.
Is it possible to put too big intercooler on diesel?
Short answer, no. Ideally we want our intake temps to be as cold as possible. Which generally means if we can get them down to ambient temp, that’s as good as you’ll ever get. With out some form of refrigeration on a W2A system like a Interchiller set up.
What size intercooler would you recommend for a 2.8t 4m40? Does size effect anything?
Ideally bigger is better. More surface area you have, the better chance it can dissipate heat. Assuming you give it good access to cool fresh ambient airflow.
@@boostedsagas884 easy thank you very much also will bigger be fine with stock turbo ? I have a reckoned delica pump installed and am pushing 10 Psi but will probably up it with new intercooler
Hey mate what was the difference in intake temps between the two ?
No idea on this set up as we didn’t log anything. On testing we did years ago on our own car, stock top mount saw 170c inlet, 130c outlet after a long pull from a stand still up a hill to 100k. Adding larger scoop and fan, it come down to around 90-100c on average, going front mount, it was about 45c (10-15c above ambient) on average after the same stretch of road. The hill was in Mackay, good long pull of foot flat up to speed then holding 100k till the top. Roughly 4mins from start to top of hill.
Wow that's great data cheers mate. Do you know what a large cross country top mount would be in comparison by any chance?
@@jarrod1687 I don’t worry mate. This was probably 9yrs ago now. When I made the FMIC for my car. That was only a 450/300/76mm PWR core too. I later stepped up to a 600/300/100 Aeroflow core, and didn’t see any real improvement. Except it took longer for the outlet temps to climb. I feel a better PWR 600/300/100 core would of been even better again.
I haven’t gone an intercooler because as everyone knows td42s run like a kettle and after a bit everything is heat soaked so why restrict airflow to the cooling system with a block of alloy that won’t do much good anyway 😂
Look, your not wrong haha. But usually people will see a cooler running engine with a intercooler, as it’s helping to remove heat before it enters the engines combustion chambers.
Is the TB48 thermostat a straight bolt in?
Yep, direct swap for the factory thermostat. Just buy a genuine one from Nissan.
What temp arethe tb48 thermostat ? Cheers
what do you think is better a front mount intercooler or a top mount.
Air to air intercoolers require lots of ambient airflow to be effective. The cooler the ambient airflow, the more heat they will remove from the charge air. So to me, it makes sense to have that intercooler mounted out front, vertically with as much airflow as possible. Putting that cooler in a hot engine bay, and being restricted to airflow via the scoop size limits it’s effectiveness.
@@boostedsagas884 yeah ok thought so. But also wouldn't it block air flow to the radiator then causing that to over heat?
@@alexcm3632 nope. If it’s over heating. You’ve got other issues.
@@boostedsagas884 ok just seeing thanks I shall now go buy a front mount intercooler
600 degrees before or after turbo?
I will usually be talking post temps, as that’s where most egts are mounted. unless I specifically mention pre turbo temps.
Compound turbo is the way to go with every diesel! Over fuelling is not good for diesel's and doesn't create more power! Maximum dense air is power
Amen.
What's your opinion on NOT running a thermostat?
Thermostat is there for a reason.
1: to help the engine heat up quicker.
2: to slow the coolant flow down so it has enough time in the engine to absorb the heat, and then again in the radiator to release that heat to the ambient air.
I hope that was a poor attempt at trying to be funny.... ALWAYS run the thermostat and keep the factory temp unit. If you are getting hot, fix the issue which is not the thermostat.
@@bentheguru4986 not trying to be funny. I always wondered about removing the thermostat. Not any more. lol
Whats if you were really cringe and were wondering if the intercooler makes the turbo spool louder?
Luckily for you, big intercoolers help with stututututuuuu. Short stainless intake will make turbo spool louder, large piping and intercooler will help with decel surge like ya classic VL. But in a diesel, if it’s auto, that’s the key to getting cool turbos noises when you back off the throttle.
What is a TB48 swap?
Tb48 thermostat in the zd30 has a earlier opening temp. Drops running temps by a few degrees.
I found mishimoto thermostat in europe for y61 opens up at 140f (60c) , compared to tb48
76.5c (170)
Original zd30 is 82c(180f)
Is 60(140) degrees too low ?
Btw great channel and a lot of info! Keep up good work ❤
Ok, Ive read more and ill be doing what you said.
Doing 140f would be quite stupid idea unless you really know what your doing.
Bad luck garage has long video covering this.
Hm ... my bone stock 3B-II in my BJ70 Land Cruiser runs 750°C+ EGT easily. 850°C under heavy load. 🤯
Is that in the exhaust manifold or dump pipe after turbo?
@@boostedsagas884 That's the thing: the 3B engine is naturally aspirated. 😅
The probe/sensor sits in the down pipe 3-5cm from the exhaust manifold.
Intercooler should not be costing you like $2000.
Even cheap coolers offer big gains over nothing or a small stock OEM unit.
No need to pay Thousands for a brand name cooler when a Cheapo is only 5% Difference, but a 5-10 x Price increase.
Of course, that’s why I wrote exactly that in the comments during the video.