Nope, we did not cover lapping scope rings in this one, the reason is because it is typically not an issue for you average user, by average we are referring to the vast majority of rifle shooter. Lapping rings is important for precision rifle shooting and it deserves it's own video.
I lap nearly every scope, but if not, I still use the lapping bar to verify alignment issues before torqueing the caps down. A little Dykem Hi-Spot Blue can show it all. Normally, I marry scopes to a specific rifle, and never move them between rifles. Saves a lot of troubles and headaches.
@@halfinchholes88 If there is one thing on the planet that’s worse than anti-seize about getting EVERYWHERE it’s Hi-Spot. I swear I can touch the tube and have it between my toes when I get home.
I'm getting old, so watching other gunsmiths re-affirm things that I know reassures me that I'm still on top of my game. Thanks guys. I struggle to remember to wear pants out of the house sometimes. At least the gun knowledge is still there.
I’ll add a few that our shop sees VERY often: 1- the ring to receiver screws and ring screws themselves need to all be brought down together gently in steps to gain perfect alignment and seating. 2-average AR scope needs to be 1-1/4” to 1-1/2”. 3- Do not use separate rings and bridge a receiver to a handguard 4- a solid one piece mount setup is always better, IF your bolt action allows. AR’s no problem. 5- Interface problems between Weaver and Picatinny. 6-scope mounted too high causing a gap in cheek to stock contact. 7- clueless as to how to achieve proper cheek to stock weld, and clueless as to how to adjusting their body to properly shoulder the rifle. 8- believe it or not, placing the optic where it looks coolest.
@@Jammaster1972 We don’t recommend Loctite. It’s not so much that screws back off, but rather the aluminum rings, aluminum mounts, and aluminum rails all expand and contract going from indoor temp to outdoor temp, to hot barrel warmth, then cold outdoors temp, then back to a warm house. Aluminum is one hell of a good heat conductor, so expansion and contraction causes slight looseness over time, so setting the screws at the proper torque with Loctite will cause issues later when it’s time to retorque, which you WILL have to do with aluminum. Allen head cap screws round off easy enough as it is. Now if you have steel rings on steel mounts torqued properly, you’re good, Loctite or not.
@@blackhawk7r221 I hear what you're saying. However, my experience with LocTite has been such that I've never rounded metal loosening them. Have you experienced this? Does the LocTite interfere with the accuracy of the next Torque? In other words, does it interfere with the re-tightening to torque spec? Thanks for your opinion.
@@blackhawk7r221Weird....Locktite is used on automotive parts, many of which experience extreme thermocycling, and have not failed. So how does the minor temperature adjustments of a firearm compared to those in an automotive engine make it inferior? Sounds like you are buying into the firearms snake oil threadlock market.
Tip: Inspect the inner radius of the scope rings. Run your finger along the radius and feel for surface irregularities. Sometimes the radius are irregular due to machining defect. Don't mistakenly assume Made in USA to mean "defect-free".
Have to use the elevation cap to place the level on to get the crosshairs level in addition to a level mounted on your barrel or Pic 1913 rail. Start with the barrel or rail being level first. Once it is.... level the crosshairs to that level and itself using BOTH levels together. You will have perfect alignment if you do. I use the Wheeler Engineering kit for all my scopes. It has all the pieces included.
So, I watched a video where the guy shined a light through the scope so that the reticle appeared on a wall. He then leveled the receiver with spirit level and aligned the scope by using a plumb Bob on the vertical cross hair because a plumb Bob is "hands free" Seems like it would work really well, but needs a bit of space and a clean wall to work. Neither of which I have in my workspace unfortunately. I'd like to try it though.
It’s important to push the rings or mounts forward (towards the muzzle) inside the pic rail notches before tightening them down so that they remain snug under recoil.
First time I put a $40 scope on a high fps air rifle I failed to do this and thought it was the cheap scope not holding zero, just turns out I just hadnt learned how to mount on pic rail yet
Just not a blessing to gun manufacturers/partners with whom lead-poisoned male-menopausal arfcom red hats disagree solely on the basis of their politics 🤷♂
The biggest mistake I see people make in mounting a scope to their rifle is letting Sportsman's Warehouse charge them $25 do the job with laser bore sighting 😜 Can't keep track of how many "hunters" I've seen at the range with a new set-up and they aren't even on paper at 100 yrds. They say it's a new set-up with Sportsman's doing the work. Even though they bought the rifle and scope from Sportsman's they still get charged $25 for mounting and laser bore sighting. Many times even the scope is not squared-up to the axis of the bore. So because at that point I feel sorry for them I'll pull the bolt and do a quick by-eye bore sight which usually results in the first shot being within a few inches of the bulls-eye.
Suggestion; a video on the value of a good torque wrench. I bought one a couple years ago and I had no idea what a jack legged mess I had been making, especially on scope mounting but even worse was action screws. The difference is night and day.
If my scope and rifle is spot on but I notice the cross hair isn’t very straight. Can I loosen the scope ring and fix the scope to adjust the cross hair to be straight will that through off my shooting on paper? Thx!
Don't forget a bore sighter from Brownells. I ordered one over 40 years ago and it has saved me countless amounts of ammunition dialing in firearms for myself and customers.
Vibra-tite instead of Loctite for removing scopes if you need to. It's designed for guns and you can reuse what you've already applied instead of cleaning it off and reapplying it.
Make sure you are careful the torque settings can change if you are using any compound that was not factory applied to the screws. Torque settings will be different for wet vs dry. This is why I follow the manufacturers instructions.
I agree, though I guess I really don’t care if others want to do it. I find on ARs that the cheek weld is nearly perfect with a medium height ring, not these super high mounts that are commonly suggested. On traditional stocked rifles, I end up building up the stock to a similar height anyway.
I don't know if anybody mentioned this, but if you are going to use a torque wrench, it is essential to return the setting to zero before setting the wrench to a different torque value. Do this every time you change the setting and every time you are done using the wrench
Also its important to use the same material scope base as the scope ring, right? Mounting tip: front load the mount i.e. push it forward. That ensures solid engagement with the rail under recoil and more importantly allows repeatable zero if you run a QD and swap optics
Some older rifles have hand-ground receiver tops. Misalignment of scope-bases is almost inevitable. Best way to avoid bending your scope-tube is to use the Burris Signature rings- the ones with the spherical nylon inserts. Or you can spend hours lapping your rings with a 1" steel bar and auto valve grinding paste.
Some things I learned when mounting my first scope and that was not mentioned in the video well... Make sure the RETICLE and action of the gun is level before and after tightening down a scope. This will make zeroing a rifle much more precise and attainable. I emphasise RETICLE because the scope housing could be slightly off from the reticle. Some people just toss a level on the top flat part of the scope and go with that... nope. Put a level on the rifle scope rail mounts and then shine a light through the scope and it'll project the reticle onto the wall. Then use a hanging line to line up the vertible reticle with the line on the wall. This is called using a plumb bob. The rings should also be pushed all the way FORWARD in the rail slots before tightening. If the rings are reward in the slots the recoil could make the rings work forward and throw off your zero.
Unless you are using a $30 Walmart scope the housing and caps will be perfectly square and level. They are CNC machined in this day in age. "This" isn't a Plumb Bob either. It's a torpedo shaped object that you hang in the dead center of a door/window etc etc from a string from above. When it's perfectly plumb using gravity the point of the torpedo will be pointing to the exact center on the bottom and you can start nailing. Have to find exact center on both the top and bottom for it to work.
Thank you so very much for this. I checked my scope and rings while Caleb was talking and sure enough they were making contact with the turrets both front and back. I had no clue that them touching could make such a difference. I can't wait to get out to the range after work tomorrow to see the improvements. Thank you much gentlemen.
I just bought a set of sig alpha rings for a crisp 100$ bill. Bought rings are so out of spec they are going to damage my glass. Lapping would fix this but I returned for another set and one of those rings were Democrat as well
I volunteer at a gun range and a frequent problem I see with AR-15's are when the forward scope mount touches or is fully on the hand guard rather than fully on the upper receiver. That can grow your groups from 2 inches to 13 inches.
How does one of the rings touching the turrent housing throw off accuracy? I have one that is touching, and it has always drove nails out to 500 yards?
It’s funny you mentioned the 742. I was picturing my 742 with see through rings when you guys were discussing it, and then you brought up the 742. I’ve had good look with the setup using an old tasco exp. It’s my most trusted hunting rifle.
@@JorgeGarcia-lw7vc you absolutely can… the machining process is way more precise than you’ll ever be able to tell. If you doubt it that much, take the cap off and there’s one of the flattest planes on the scope.
Do what works, right? Lots of scopes are flat under the turret and a quality rail is flat. So I’ve had good luck with using a piece of steel to align those surfaces. There are alignment tools that use two wedges to do the same thing.
@@lanceschul I’ve not tried them but could see that happening. I just tilt a piece of steel that has parallel edges, as I tighten the rings I use it to keep the scope and rail parallel. With a plumb bob I’ve struggled to keep the gun level, any tricks?
@@Steaknjake.45 take your time. I have a CTK Precision level that lays over the pic rail. Excellent product. Or the wheeler model that clamps to your barrel. Just keep an eye on those while you true the reticle.
You guys mentioned loctite. I use blue on the threads of my scope mounts and rings. I use one tiny drop on each screw. Do y'all recommend that? I'd just like to know if I'm incorrect on this. I did have a scope come loose on me once. I was going crazy chasing groups and then eventually wasn't even on the paper. Last thing I expected was to notice my scope was loose. And a gunsmith in my area had mounted that one. This is why I use lactate. (I did buy that torque wrench y'all mentioned). Anyway, I'd like to know what you recommend? And thank you, M
Excellent advice. Your video explained why I have been having problems getting my scope zero'ed. The first thing I need to do is get a new AR scope mount.
My favorite one that was from a customer for us to "fix": The scope will work better if you mount the eyepiece facing the buttstock and the objective lens facing the barrel.
a friend crushed my vortex scope! I sent the rifle and scope in to GUN SMITH , They shifted the scope to torque it down. I can not now re torque it down I think its now crushing the tube , no where else to re fit the rings. What can I do other than giving my rifle to my friend! Thank you.
I got a nice Vortex scope for Christmas... I went out and bought a torque screwdriver specifically to mount it...glad I did the right thing rather than just eyeballing it.
Losing the vision of my dominant eye to age. Have used a left-handed Remington model 700 and I was amazed by how we shot together. Ranch rifle that rode in a rifle case behind the seat. Looking for a new left-handed rifle now and it will need a scope also.
Please cover the topic of Right Hand Dominate / Left Eye use shooting. I'm blind in my right but shoot right handed. I have my acog mounts on a 3/4s riser. But still have to smash my head down to get my left eye level to see through the scope
I sort of bit off more than I could chew. Y’all would probably laugh at it if you seen it, but if I can make it work, it would be nice. I’ll put a bipod on a Sks with a cheap Chinese copy of a Russian infrared laser with some cheap digital IR goggles it works but I used ak style dovetail and rail with a Bushnell banner the scope does not get hit by ejecting shells really the only way I could actually make it work now that I think about it I could’ve probably done it more way than one but the way it got set. Turned out to be the best and it’s not the original place. I wanted it but from say the center of my scope where you would dial in left from right or just take the radius and the center of the scope on both ends is about 6 inches off the barrel Fits perfect with my eye. It’s just that I don’t think the Bushnell is made to go that high so when I went to Bors side it as high as I could get the scope to say it was about maxed, so should I take my scope and move it forward and adjust my stock. I’ve pulled it as far back as it can go that actually fits my eye the best and it seems to work better with the bars site laser as well, I might have a little bit of leeway, but my question is moving the scope forward or backward will that make an and I’m pretty sure it has made a difference but if my scope is too high to zero in at 100 just randomly throw out by couple clicks scouting the scout back should allow for more playroom, correct? There was a project I started on and once I started a project to finish it I was racing a victim of a burger girly so all of my other firearms were taken. I had a stash of ammo put back for this particular. Well I had it for an AK but it shoots the same round so I needed something with the scope, I decided to drill and tap the side of the receiver like the Russians do. It just said hi I don’t want to really change the scope out for a tactical scope. I’m trying to get the cheapest build possible. there is another piece. I could mount my scope on that smaller and lower to the dust cover, but it is about 150 bucks. And I’m on a budget at the moment. Just thought I would share what I’m dealing with at the moment I lost the screw in piece to my bore cider so I really just can’t completely completely how it’s setting I have to get to the range and try to shoot at 100 yards shot low, my spotter wasn’t doing his job nor knew what he was doing so when he was supposed to watch my vapor trail and tell me where I was hitting through the spider scope, he just said well he hit something I said I hit something shooting about a foot. Low but that was a bite probably 25 feet with a laser I think pulling my scope back and setting it the way I have on the mount even if I have to go to a 2 inch scout mile on one side and then hold the front of the scope, steady, and then back it up even more I just wanna at least get 100 150 yard accuracy but I feel like my scope is giving me the limitation problems. I’m trying to understand how moving it one way or another would make it adjust higher or lower from the barrel or the end of the barrel I guess I just need to go to the range and do some more shooting and not be as cheap and as lazy as last time Take bigger targets instead of trying to bore it at 25 yards and then shoot 125 yards 10 inch target. I may wind up having to buy a shorter scope mile. I hope not or I might try to. I don’t see and I’ve never took a scope apart, but I might try to get a couple old ones out and see if it’s possible to adjust them from the inside, and then readjust it again I don’t know everything‘s possible I’m not giving up on it and I can’t say that much lower because the infrared laser will be in the way it’s made from snipers position so it’s got netting in 550 in bar lap tied all from the front almost to the Chamber and I also have to clear that so I’m from Mississippi. I’ll make it work. The physics is just confusing me at the moment will moving the scope forward or back on the rail make a difference even a slight difference on how much you can elevate the crosshairs because I’m just a hair off of whatever I’m trying to get I believe or it could be. I did not use a drill press I did not use any kind of advice. I just stood on the rifle. I took a drill while I took the I took a C clamp and a punch and punched notches to start drilling where the holes was and then I tapped it. Everything was seems straight. I didn’t have a problem tapping them and after I got the screws in they might’ve been a little crooked. I think I might’ve been a little crooked when I started drilling into the side of my gun after I cut a chunk out of the wood with sawsaw I mean, the scope is as firm and steady as it can be. It’s in the receiver. It is on a flick, removable interchangeable rail that goes on the sides of a case. Either I can back the scope up enough to get just enough room or I will have to get a lower rail which may make my scope which might put my laser and camouflage the front. The camouflage on the front of the rifle could be in the way. I don’t know if y’all have any recommendations or ideas I just thought I would share the struggle I’m going through at the moment, just because I didn’t listen and I guess I thought I knew what I was doing. I do I’ll fix it and make it work. It’s just it’s dark and I can’t go out to the range to test the pulling back of the scope at the moment laser bore sighter seems to have worked I’m just trying to figure the physics on how moving a scope forward or back makes it have a difference on how high it can be set to shoot.
When I first mount anything especially scopes I use liquid white out in the little squeeze bottle with the metal tip to put a fine dot on each screw to check for proper tightness at a glance. After a box or so doubel check with torque wrench and use engine decreased to clean off white out and trust your work until it changes on patters.
Scope mounting tip make sure your gun is level when mounting your scope and I like to use a plum line to make sure the cross hair is correct. Share this tip!
I have see-through scope mounts on a muzzleloader that has FO irons as well. I like the irons option for quick acquisition of deer when they sneak up on me.
I have a question... if people say its more important to put a bubble ring on your scope because you reticle needs to be level.. but ur reticle isnt shooting a bullet. Wouldnt a level on the rail be more accurate because that will tell if ur gun is canted... or am i thinking about it too much and just level is level regardless if ur scope isnt aligned correctly (in theory)
Very good video. You forgot the one piece scope mounts, they can be turned around backwards. Some makes no difference other than looking non conventional but those that offer that extra 20+ moa is another way to not getting good groups if you can adjust to get on paper
Very valuable information guys!!! ....and the way you described common scope mounting problems with easy to understand examples was much appreciated. Every beginner shooter should be watching all your videos!!!!
Make sure you have a torque wrench. I’ve seen guys tighten scope rings to the point they crush the tube😳every set of rings has its own torque measurements
What is your veiw on scopes that are mounted 90 degrees off...being the elevation is used for windage but on the left side and the windage is the elevation on top...I've seen some military shooters set their scopes that way. It is said that way you can make adjustments with the left hand and not release your firing hand...
Heavy scopes mounted on precision bolt action rifles with cantilever mounts. I see this needless combination a lot, and when taking into account recoil and inertia, this must put some real stress on the mount. I would like to see some examples of shooting with a high speed camera. Like a fat guy on a diving board. Thoughts?
How much of a gap between the scope and the rifle (and things mounted to it) are acceptable? For example, I have an AR with a LPVO, mounted below the eye piece is a folded down rear BUIS. There is about 1 - 2 credit card's worth of space between the two. No touching but is CLOSE. (Look's similar in setup to Steve's son's AR in the video)
1) I like 2-screw vs 4 or 6-screw rings with older, lighter glass. To keep a scope from slipping I'll dust them inside with powdered rosin. I learned this when still shooting gas piston vs PCP airguns. 2) Not for QDs but on some 1" setups I'll put a TGP bar into the rings before finally tightening them to the rail, then swap out the bar for the scope. This is quick & easy and why I don't feel a need to lap rings. btw, great video.
No mention of torque value ranges? My 24mm tube scope mount and Spitfire optic both call for 25 inch lbs on just about every screw. Is this close to universal? I think it usually is dependent on screw size, but these tubes (like you say) are vulnerable.
7:36 this happened to me 😅 Had the scope rotated 90 degrees. Went to sight that in and up was left, right was down. It was so messed up. My father-in-law was bewildered as to why we couldn't sight it in. LOL!
Do can you recommend scope mount for me? I need a scope mount for an ar 10 and for a Burris RT-25. The bell is 56mm and I have filp up sights so the read needs to clear the rear sight. T4TV'S
Ùsing poster board on wall. Drawing a plumbed vertical on board making sure reciver is plumb...adjust scope by Turing in mounts to align retinal to plumb line tighten clamps
Great info, gentlemen! I didn't realize how detrimental proper placement of scope rings on the scope barrel can be. Thank you. Some of the mistakes you mentioned I've already made with a Vortex Venom 5-25x56 I recently purchased. The 34mm Vortex Pro (medium height) scope rings I bought causes the front of the scope to contact the rifle barrel when the lens cap's in place. Luckily I haven't tightened anything down, so I can exchange the rings for the correct height.
But, the "gap" on that Leupold is too wide (between the rear ring and the turrets). Therefore, the DISTANCE between the two rings is shorter than what would be optimal. Thus, the rear ring should be placed about half an inch backwards.
Everyone says scope ring mounting is important what do scope ring manufactures know that we don't what is that little polyester sticky for if you're going to lap the rings anyway
The scope mounted on Lee Harvey Oswald’s scope was loose and flappy (per this video it was reason #2 for inaccurate rifles), yet we’re told he made those shots with that rifle..
Tips for widening up some scope rings? I've got a period correct Zf39 side scope mount(reproduction) for my mauser, but the only scope I could get is 0.5mm too large.
On the bolt gun, no mention of the ring mounted in the middle of the base over the ejection port? You always want to keep your rings over the pillars of the base.
Nope, we did not cover lapping scope rings in this one, the reason is because it is typically not an issue for you average user, by average we are referring to the vast majority of rifle shooter. Lapping rings is important for precision rifle shooting and it deserves it's own video.
Hey Caleb, looks like you need to flip your front sight on that Armalite Rifle you have there.
Do a video about keeping/cleaning lenses
I lap nearly every scope, but if not, I still use the lapping bar to verify alignment issues before torqueing the caps down. A little Dykem Hi-Spot Blue can show it all. Normally, I marry scopes to a specific rifle, and never move them between rifles. Saves a lot of troubles and headaches.
@@CalebSavant sounds like your mind is made up...
👍😎👍
@@halfinchholes88 If there is one thing on the planet that’s worse than anti-seize about getting EVERYWHERE it’s Hi-Spot. I swear I can touch the tube and have it between my toes when I get home.
You guys should do much longer (~30-60 minute) deep dives on this topic (and many others). I learn a lot from this channel. Thanks.
great video guys ; to the point, sweet and short !
putting the scope screws in wrong place .
I'm getting old, so watching other gunsmiths re-affirm things that I know reassures me that I'm still on top of my game. Thanks guys. I struggle to remember to wear pants out of the house sometimes. At least the gun knowledge is still there.
You should always make sure your rings or mount are pushed forward against the slot before torquing to spec, imho......
I’ll add a few that our shop sees VERY often:
1- the ring to receiver screws and ring screws themselves need to all be brought down together gently in steps to gain perfect alignment and seating.
2-average AR scope needs to be 1-1/4” to 1-1/2”.
3- Do not use separate rings and bridge a receiver to a handguard
4- a solid one piece mount setup is always better, IF your bolt action allows. AR’s no problem.
5- Interface problems between Weaver and Picatinny.
6-scope mounted too high causing a gap in cheek to stock contact.
7- clueless as to how to achieve proper cheek to stock weld, and clueless as to how to adjusting their body to properly shoulder the rifle.
8- believe it or not, placing the optic where it looks coolest.
@Hewhoremains420 What kind of rifle do you need to scope?
Nobody talked about LocTite ????
@@Jammaster1972 We don’t recommend Loctite. It’s not so much that screws back off, but rather the aluminum rings, aluminum mounts, and aluminum rails all expand and contract going from indoor temp to outdoor temp, to hot barrel warmth, then cold outdoors temp, then back to a warm house. Aluminum is one hell of a good heat conductor, so expansion and contraction causes slight looseness over time, so setting the screws at the proper torque with Loctite will cause issues later when it’s time to retorque, which you WILL have to do with aluminum. Allen head cap screws round off easy enough as it is. Now if you have steel rings on steel mounts torqued properly, you’re good, Loctite or not.
@@blackhawk7r221 I hear what you're saying. However, my experience with LocTite has been such that I've never rounded metal loosening them. Have you experienced this? Does the LocTite interfere with the accuracy of the next Torque? In other words, does it interfere with the re-tightening to torque spec? Thanks for your opinion.
@@blackhawk7r221Weird....Locktite is used on automotive parts, many of which experience extreme thermocycling, and have not failed. So how does the minor temperature adjustments of a firearm compared to those in an automotive engine make it inferior? Sounds like you are buying into the firearms snake oil threadlock market.
Tip: Inspect the inner radius of the scope rings. Run your finger along the radius and feel for surface irregularities. Sometimes the radius are irregular due to machining defect. Don't mistakenly assume Made in USA to mean "defect-free".
Good point.!! I learned the hard way to feel the radius on every brand of scope ring.
The E Coat or A Coat finish can also have runs like paint inside the rings that should be lapped out
Tip: Level your scope with/using the reticle, not the elevation cap.
Interesting..
Have to use the elevation cap to place the level on to get the crosshairs level in addition to a level mounted on your barrel or Pic 1913 rail. Start with the barrel or rail being level first. Once it is.... level the crosshairs to that level and itself using BOTH levels together. You will have perfect alignment if you do. I use the Wheeler Engineering kit for all my scopes. It has all the pieces included.
@Hewhoremains420
Too close to the objective or front of the scope.
So, I watched a video where the guy shined a light through the scope so that the reticle appeared on a wall. He then leveled the receiver with spirit level and aligned the scope by using a plumb Bob on the vertical cross hair because a plumb Bob is "hands free"
Seems like it would work really well, but needs a bit of space and a clean wall to work. Neither of which I have in my workspace unfortunately. I'd like to try it though.
It’s important to push the rings or mounts forward (towards the muzzle) inside the pic rail notches before tightening them down so that they remain snug under recoil.
First time I put a $40 scope on a high fps air rifle I failed to do this and thought it was the cheap scope not holding zero, just turns out I just hadnt learned how to mount on pic rail yet
Always a great job fellas. Brownells is a blessing to Gunsmiths and Armorer's.
Don't forget Reloaders.
Just not a blessing to gun manufacturers/partners with whom lead-poisoned male-menopausal arfcom red hats disagree solely on the basis of their politics 🤷♂
As are you good Sir.
it's a joy to listen both of you.. please continue these... I've learned a lot!
The biggest mistake I see people make in mounting a scope to their rifle is letting Sportsman's Warehouse charge them $25 do the job with laser bore sighting 😜 Can't keep track of how many "hunters" I've seen at the range with a new set-up and they aren't even on paper at 100 yrds. They say it's a new set-up with Sportsman's doing the work. Even though they bought the rifle and scope from Sportsman's they still get charged $25 for mounting and laser bore sighting. Many times even the scope is not squared-up to the axis of the bore. So because at that point I feel sorry for them I'll pull the bolt and do a quick by-eye bore sight which usually results in the first shot being within a few inches of the bulls-eye.
so any guesses on what whiskey in them coffee cups
Definitely Vibratite VC3 instead of Loctite for almost all screws: scopes, mounts, handguard accessories, etc.
Caleb, thanks for setting up the bedding comment for me on ig🤣🤣
Suggestion; a video on the value of a good torque wrench. I bought one a couple years ago and I had no idea what a jack legged mess I had been making, especially on scope mounting but even worse was action screws. The difference is night and day.
Wheeler F.A,T. (Firearm Accurizing Torque) wrench is awesome addition to the tool box.
If my scope and rifle is spot on but I notice the cross hair isn’t very straight. Can I loosen the scope ring and fix the scope to adjust the cross hair to be straight will that through off my shooting on paper? Thx!
Don't forget a bore sighter from Brownells. I ordered one over 40 years ago and it has saved me countless amounts of ammunition dialing in firearms for myself and customers.
Vibra-tite instead of Loctite for removing scopes if you need to. It's designed for guns and you can reuse what you've already applied instead of cleaning it off and reapplying it.
Make sure you are careful the torque settings can change if you are using any compound that was not factory applied to the screws. Torque settings will be different for wet vs dry. This is why I follow the manufacturers instructions.
Vibra-tite is a great product!
You also have scope ring caps with three screws on top, so what torque do u use then?
AR high rings are 1.5 just in case y'all needed to know that both 308 and 556
U say don't mount it with the rings touching anything cuz it throws off accuracy, but u don't explain how.
One of the most common things that gets my attention is mounting the scope too high when there is no logical reason to.
You need it high when shooting from the hip...
I agree, though I guess I really don’t care if others want to do it. I find on ARs that the cheek weld is nearly perfect with a medium height ring, not these super high mounts that are commonly suggested. On traditional stocked rifles, I end up building up the stock to a similar height anyway.
I don't know if anybody mentioned this, but if you are going to use a torque wrench, it is essential to return the setting to zero before setting the wrench to a different torque value. Do this every time you change the setting and every time you are done using the wrench
Getting ready to mount one soon great information and timing
Can you please explain how you determined placing the mounts right to the edge of the scope causes it to affect the accuracy?
Also its important to use the same material scope base as the scope ring, right?
Mounting tip: front load the mount i.e. push it forward. That ensures solid engagement with the rail under recoil and more importantly allows repeatable zero if you run a QD and swap optics
Some older rifles have hand-ground receiver tops. Misalignment of scope-bases is almost inevitable. Best way to avoid bending your scope-tube is to use the Burris Signature rings- the ones with the spherical nylon inserts. Or you can spend hours lapping your rings with a 1" steel bar and auto valve grinding paste.
Some things I learned when mounting my first scope and that was not mentioned in the video well... Make sure the RETICLE and action of the gun is level before and after tightening down a scope. This will make zeroing a rifle much more precise and attainable. I emphasise RETICLE because the scope housing could be slightly off from the reticle. Some people just toss a level on the top flat part of the scope and go with that... nope. Put a level on the rifle scope rail mounts and then shine a light through the scope and it'll project the reticle onto the wall. Then use a hanging line to line up the vertible reticle with the line on the wall. This is called using a plumb bob. The rings should also be pushed all the way FORWARD in the rail slots before tightening. If the rings are reward in the slots the recoil could make the rings work forward and throw off your zero.
Unless you are using a $30 Walmart scope the housing and caps will be perfectly square and level. They are CNC machined in this day in age. "This" isn't a Plumb Bob either. It's a torpedo shaped object that you hang in the dead center of a door/window etc etc from a string from above. When it's perfectly plumb using gravity the point of the torpedo will be pointing to the exact center on the bottom and you can start nailing. Have to find exact center on both the top and bottom for it to work.
Did I hear you say that if the scope COVER (bikini cover) fits tight between the scope and barrel, it will cause a problem?
Thank you so very much for this. I checked my scope and rings while Caleb was talking
and sure enough they were making contact with the turrets both front and back. I had
no clue that them touching could make such a difference. I can't wait to get out to the
range after work tomorrow to see the improvements. Thank you much gentlemen.
I just bought a set of sig alpha rings for a crisp 100$ bill. Bought rings are so out of spec they are going to damage my glass. Lapping would fix this but I returned for another set and one of those rings were Democrat as well
Explain what was wrong with them please
I volunteer at a gun range and a frequent problem I see with AR-15's are when the forward scope mount touches or is fully on the hand guard rather than fully on the upper receiver. That can grow your groups from 2 inches to 13 inches.
Don't forget, don't mount one on handguard and one on receiver. Been seeing this a lot recently in Facebook groups.
How does one of the rings touching the turrent housing throw off accuracy? I have one that is touching, and it has always drove nails out to 500 yards?
It’s funny you mentioned the 742. I was picturing my 742 with see through rings when you guys were discussing it, and then you brought up the 742. I’ve had good look with the setup using an old tasco exp. It’s my most trusted hunting rifle.
Tip: "Don't use the elevation cap as horizontal reference."
Oh Lord, then what? Thanks for flagging, just that I d like to know a better solution. Thanks! : )
@@JorgeGarcia-lw7vc you absolutely can… the machining process is way more precise than you’ll ever be able to tell. If you doubt it that much, take the cap off and there’s one of the flattest planes on the scope.
Did you all cover using a level tool so that the scope crosshairs are not tilted out of level in relation to the receiver?
Leveling scope was barely mentioned but an explanation why level matters as distance increases helps understanding.
Check out the video Vortex put out on leveling scopes, you might be surprised what you find.
Good stuff. How about a debate on reticle leveling? I’ve determined that the plumb bob method works the best for me. What do you say?
Do what works, right? Lots of scopes are flat under the turret and a quality rail is flat. So I’ve had good luck with using a piece of steel to align those surfaces. There are alignment tools that use two wedges to do the same thing.
@@Steaknjake.45 for sure. Feeler gauges work too. I have tried the wedges but when I get things snuggled up they tend to get stuck…
@@lanceschul I’ve not tried them but could see that happening. I just tilt a piece of steel that has parallel edges, as I tighten the rings I use it to keep the scope and rail parallel. With a plumb bob I’ve struggled to keep the gun level, any tricks?
@@Steaknjake.45 take your time. I have a CTK Precision level that lays over the pic rail. Excellent product. Or the wheeler model that clamps to your barrel. Just keep an eye on those while you true the reticle.
You guys mentioned loctite. I use blue on the threads of my scope mounts and rings. I use one tiny drop on each screw. Do y'all recommend that? I'd just like to know if I'm incorrect on this. I did have a scope come loose on me once. I was going crazy chasing groups and then eventually wasn't even on the paper. Last thing I expected was to notice my scope was loose.
And a gunsmith in my area had mounted that one.
This is why I use lactate. (I did buy that torque wrench y'all mentioned).
Anyway, I'd like to know what you recommend?
And thank you, M
I just use Burris signature rings..that takes care of alignment
That look in Caleb's eyes at the mention of Loctite...
Excellent advice. Your video explained why I have been having problems getting my scope zero'ed. The first thing I need to do is get a new AR scope mount.
Good products, good people. Thanks for doing what you do.
My favorite one that was from a customer for us to "fix": The scope will work better if you mount the eyepiece facing the buttstock and the objective lens facing the barrel.
No excuse not to have a torque driver if you're mounting scopes above a couple hundred dollars. Theyre cheaper than mid grade rings
a friend crushed my vortex scope! I sent the rifle and scope in to GUN SMITH , They shifted the scope to torque it down. I can not now re torque it down I think its now crushing the tube , no where else to re fit the rings. What can I do other than giving my rifle to my friend! Thank you.
I got a nice Vortex scope for Christmas... I went out and bought a torque screwdriver specifically to mount it...glad I did the right thing rather than just eyeballing it.
Losing the vision of my dominant eye to age.
Have used a left-handed Remington model 700 and I was amazed by how we shot together.
Ranch rifle that rode in a rifle case behind the seat.
Looking for a new left-handed rifle now and it will need a scope also.
Please cover the topic of Right Hand Dominate / Left Eye use shooting.
I'm blind in my right but shoot right handed. I have my acog mounts on a 3/4s riser. But still have to smash my head down to get my left eye level to see through the scope
I sort of bit off more than I could chew. Y’all would probably laugh at it if you seen it, but if I can make it work, it would be nice. I’ll put a bipod on a Sks with a cheap Chinese copy of a Russian infrared laser with some cheap digital IR goggles it works but I used ak style dovetail and rail with a Bushnell banner the scope does not get hit by ejecting shells really the only way I could actually make it work now that I think about it I could’ve probably done it more way than one but the way it got set. Turned out to be the best and it’s not the original place. I wanted it but from say the center of my scope where you would dial in left from right or just take the radius and the center of the scope on both ends is about 6 inches off the barrel Fits perfect with my eye. It’s just that I don’t think the Bushnell is made to go that high so when I went to Bors side it as high as I could get the scope to say it was about maxed, so should I take my scope and move it forward and adjust my stock. I’ve pulled it as far back as it can go that actually fits my eye the best and it seems to work better with the bars site laser as well, I might have a little bit of leeway, but my question is moving the scope forward or backward will that make an and I’m pretty sure it has made a difference but if my scope is too high to zero in at 100 just randomly throw out by couple clicks scouting the scout back should allow for more playroom, correct? There was a project I started on and once I started a project to finish it I was racing a victim of a burger girly so all of my other firearms were taken. I had a stash of ammo put back for this particular. Well I had it for an AK but it shoots the same round so I needed something with the scope, I decided to drill and tap the side of the receiver like the Russians do. It just said hi I don’t want to really change the scope out for a tactical scope. I’m trying to get the cheapest build possible. there is another piece. I could mount my scope on that smaller and lower to the dust cover, but it is about 150 bucks. And I’m on a budget at the moment. Just thought I would share what I’m dealing with at the moment I lost the screw in piece to my bore cider so I really just can’t completely completely how it’s setting I have to get to the range and try to shoot at 100 yards shot low, my spotter wasn’t doing his job nor knew what he was doing so when he was supposed to watch my vapor trail and tell me where I was hitting through the spider scope, he just said well he hit something I said I hit something shooting about a foot. Low but that was a bite probably 25 feet with a laser I think pulling my scope back and setting it the way I have on the mount even if I have to go to a 2 inch scout mile on one side and then hold the front of the scope, steady, and then back it up even more I just wanna at least get 100 150 yard accuracy but I feel like my scope is giving me the limitation problems. I’m trying to understand how moving it one way or another would make it adjust higher or lower from the barrel or the end of the barrel I guess I just need to go to the range and do some more shooting and not be as cheap and as lazy as last time Take bigger targets instead of trying to bore it at 25 yards and then shoot 125 yards 10 inch target. I may wind up having to buy a shorter scope mile. I hope not or I might try to. I don’t see and I’ve never took a scope apart, but I might try to get a couple old ones out and see if it’s possible to adjust them from the inside, and then readjust it again I don’t know everything‘s possible I’m not giving up on it and I can’t say that much lower because the infrared laser will be in the way it’s made from snipers position so it’s got netting in 550 in bar lap tied all from the front almost to the Chamber and I also have to clear that so I’m from Mississippi. I’ll make it work. The physics is just confusing me at the moment will moving the scope forward or back on the rail make a difference even a slight difference on how much you can elevate the crosshairs because I’m just a hair off of whatever I’m trying to get I believe or it could be. I did not use a drill press I did not use any kind of advice. I just stood on the rifle. I took a drill while I took the I took a C clamp and a punch and punched notches to start drilling where the holes was and then I tapped it. Everything was seems straight. I didn’t have a problem tapping them and after I got the screws in they might’ve been a little crooked. I think I might’ve been a little crooked when I started drilling into the side of my gun after I cut a chunk out of the wood with sawsaw I mean, the scope is as firm and steady as it can be. It’s in the receiver. It is on a flick, removable interchangeable rail that goes on the sides of a case. Either I can back the scope up enough to get just enough room or I will have to get a lower rail which may make my scope which might put my laser and camouflage the front. The camouflage on the front of the rifle could be in the way. I don’t know if y’all have any recommendations or ideas I just thought I would share the struggle I’m going through at the moment, just because I didn’t listen and I guess I thought I knew what I was doing. I do I’ll fix it and make it work. It’s just it’s dark and I can’t go out to the range to test the pulling back of the scope at the moment laser bore sighter seems to have worked I’m just trying to figure the physics on how moving a scope forward or back makes it have a difference on how high it can be set to shoot.
When I first mount anything especially scopes I use liquid white out in the little squeeze bottle with the metal tip to put a fine dot on each screw to check for proper tightness at a glance. After a box or so doubel check with torque wrench and use engine decreased to clean off white out and trust your work until it changes on patters.
Scope mounting tip make sure your gun is level when mounting your scope and I like to use a plum line to make sure the cross hair is correct. Share this tip!
Absolutely agree
How do you know that your gun is level?
What scope mount is being used in this video? It looks like a Badger Ordnance Condition One or a clone. Anyone know?
What's wrong with see-through rings?
I have see-through scope mounts on a muzzleloader that has FO irons as well. I like the irons option for quick acquisition of deer when they sneak up on me.
I have a question... if people say its more important to put a bubble ring on your scope because you reticle needs to be level.. but ur reticle isnt shooting a bullet. Wouldnt a level on the rail be more accurate because that will tell if ur gun is canted... or am i thinking about it too much and just level is level regardless if ur scope isnt aligned correctly (in theory)
And, as for shimming rings to get more MOA .......DON'T.
Very good video. You forgot the one piece scope mounts, they can be turned around backwards. Some makes no difference other than looking non conventional but those that offer that extra 20+ moa is another way to not getting good groups if you can adjust to get on paper
Not lapping or aligning non precision matched 2 piece rings. I see people throwing those on their rifles thinking it's no issue!
The dude on the right has hair that looks like he just got done playing bass for Elvis Presley.
Does it matter what direction you have a cantilever mount facing as long as you have the scope the correct way?
1:56 where can we find the torque specs??
The rear ring on the bolt gun is “on the bridge” and not “on the island.” Is that best practice?
What about lapping the scope to the rings? When I install a scope I always lap the scope and rings.
What companies rings are you lapping?
That’s really unnecessary with rings of today
Click into the video. See the iron sights under the LPVO. Immediately facepalm.
Good video.
There is a good explanation for it
Very valuable information guys!!! ....and the way you described common scope mounting problems with easy to understand examples was much appreciated. Every beginner shooter should be watching all your videos!!!!
Using locktite on the screws??? Good or bad?
Great video. Thank you.
Never gets old listening to true professionals. Thanks for the great video fellas
I sure do appreciate the education 👍🤙
Algorithm
Show us the us navy’s mounting tactic
I have no idea what they are talking about…
Make sure you have a torque wrench. I’ve seen guys tighten scope rings to the point they crush the tube😳every set of rings has its own torque measurements
Except - - it isn't the spec for the rings you need to be concerned with, but the spec for the SCOPE
Cant take u serious with the hair bud….
Some good simple tips here.
Funny that Caleb has backup iron sights on his scoped ar. Can't even use the irons without grabbing a tool to unscrew the scope off
The reason is explained here- ruclips.net/video/fMDWSVp0gTs/видео.html
What is your veiw on scopes that are mounted 90 degrees off...being the elevation is used for windage but on the left side and the windage is the elevation on top...I've seen some military shooters set their scopes that way. It is said that way you can make adjustments with the left hand and not release your firing hand...
Heavy scopes mounted on precision bolt action rifles with cantilever mounts. I see this needless combination a lot, and when taking into account recoil and inertia, this must put some real stress on the mount. I would like to see some examples of shooting with a high speed camera. Like a fat guy on a diving board. Thoughts?
Thinking about pulling the trigger on an LPVO and offset RDS instead of a RDS and Magnifier for my 13.9" still conflicted.... I CANT DECIDE!!!!???
How much of a gap between the scope and the rifle (and things mounted to it) are acceptable? For example, I have an AR with a LPVO, mounted below the eye piece is a folded down rear BUIS. There is about 1 - 2 credit card's worth of space between the two. No touching but is CLOSE. (Look's similar in setup to Steve's son's AR in the video)
If a piece of card stock fits without interference, it's good.
@@brownells thank you!
@@brownells If you have a decent deck of cards thats a perfect piece of card stock
Correct information
1) I like 2-screw vs 4 or 6-screw rings with older, lighter glass. To keep a scope from slipping I'll dust them inside with powdered rosin. I learned this when still shooting gas piston vs PCP airguns. 2) Not for QDs but on some 1" setups I'll put a TGP bar into the rings before finally tightening them to the rail, then swap out the bar for the scope. This is quick & easy and why I don't feel a need to lap rings. btw, great video.
Loctite...
As an ex-mechanic.
A small screw/bolt, a small drop of Loctite. A large screw/bolt, a less-small drop of Loctite.
No mention of torque value ranges? My 24mm tube scope mount and Spitfire optic both call for 25 inch lbs on just about every screw. Is this close to universal? I think it usually is dependent on screw size, but these tubes (like you say) are vulnerable.
7:36 this happened to me 😅
Had the scope rotated 90 degrees. Went to sight that in and up was left, right was down. It was so messed up. My father-in-law was bewildered as to why we couldn't sight it in. LOL!
What rifle rest is that?
completely off topic...what's with the AT-4 in the safe? Its cool, but there's not much gunsmithing to be done to it :)
Do can you recommend scope mount for me? I need a scope mount for an ar 10 and for a Burris RT-25. The bell is 56mm and I have filp up sights so the read needs to clear the rear sight.
T4TV'S
Ùsing poster board on wall. Drawing a plumbed vertical on board making sure reciver is plumb...adjust scope by Turing in mounts to align retinal to plumb line tighten clamps
Great info, gentlemen! I didn't realize how detrimental proper placement of scope rings on the scope barrel can be. Thank you. Some of the mistakes you mentioned I've already made with a Vortex Venom 5-25x56 I recently purchased. The 34mm Vortex Pro (medium height) scope rings I bought causes the front of the scope to contact the rifle barrel when the lens cap's in place. Luckily I haven't tightened anything down, so I can exchange the rings for the correct height.
But, the "gap" on that Leupold is too wide (between the rear ring and the turrets). Therefore, the DISTANCE between the two rings is shorter than what would be optimal. Thus, the rear ring should be placed about half an inch backwards.
Everyone says scope ring mounting is important what do scope ring manufactures know that we don't what is that little polyester sticky for if you're going to lap the rings anyway
The scope mounted on Lee Harvey Oswald’s scope was loose and flappy (per this video it was reason #2 for inaccurate rifles), yet we’re told he made those shots with that rifle..
torque specs, where and how much?
on your ring package, different for different manufacture and material
Was really hoping for tips on leveling
Me too
Tips for widening up some scope rings? I've got a period correct Zf39 side scope mount(reproduction) for my mauser, but the only scope I could get is 0.5mm too large.
It will definitely have play, if you are not sure..pay the $35..$50 to get assistance!
On the bolt gun, no mention of the ring mounted in the middle of the base over the ejection port? You always want to keep your rings over the pillars of the base.
That dosent matter.
@@brownellsbingo