That it just clarified my belief that every time they reach out it's a hidden agenda that eventually comes out. All the lies, manipulation and just emotionless, meaningless and fake words they use thinking I'm fucking stupid. When they cant win with me via comms, that's when the name calling begins. Hence my laughter starts because it's so predictable and pattern driven Sorry no pity, no mercy and I've even stopped using my energy to pray for their soul.
Exactly. The N Husband was driving me and the kids crazy. But now I know his play and do not share anything important with him anymore. This saves my mind and gives me the power to prepare everything for the escape.
@L 0 V E & Gratitude you are another self mine drove us both off a 20 ft cliff because she thought I was cheating because I got a random female friend suggestion on FB. Then told the cops she blacked out. But I watched her jerk the wheel as soon as she saw an opening in the guardrail. I'm lucky to be alive. I know what you're going through
narcissists never interact with you. they can only interact with the avatar of you that they have absorbed. explains why you can never truly feel seen or heard by them. really great video, thank you
With a narcissist, as soon as you get a distressing emotional reaction, you automatically lose. Their tactic has triggered your trauma-based response and you are now out of your proper element. In other words, you've lost your cool and you're about to lose your gasket one way or another. Don't lose your gasket. Keep your cool, friend. Keep your cool.
I agree, but don't beat yourself up if you fall for one of their games of DARVO. Flying monkeys who high five them behind your back, likely, are really no loss in what they think of you. Because you can't lose what you never really had!
So true!! When i lose my cool it's actually like I'm enabling them and immediately i see them satisfied cause they make me lose my cool and they feel so "special" that they have the power to control my feelings. It's a trap! Don't lose your cool!
@@AZDC99 exactly! I used to beat myself up if i lose my cool once but i know now that I'm human and i can't be perfect. I simply don't engage anymore with them
Malicious misinterpretation and obstructionism. Never a resolution always avoids a solution ... compelled to antagonise and evade. All comunication is weaponised to win.
The thing is we all do a degree - we all relax a little bit at hiome compared to work or socail function but not to the degree a narcissist does where its so extreme - suchg a change, almost a 360.
Thank you for this. Years ago while bingeing on yours and Sam Vaknin's videos, I heard Sam say "the covert narcissist does not communicate for the purpose of understanding. He communicates for one of only two reasons: to get attention, or to get a reaction." It was that comment which explained every bit of confusion during my 32 years with my ex husband. He never communicated for any other reason, nor could he handle others' feelings and it was maddening. Being sneaky in the way they word things means they get others to do something for them without asking (reaction). It's a truly sick game. If my ex put half as much focus on growing up as he puts on getting people to think he's great (lies), he'd have done something with his life. Sam's words and your videos changed my life. Thank you.
I actually thought I was a bad communicator due to being raised by coverts/dating coverts. A couple years out, I realize that wasn’t my problem. It was a set up of perpetually making me confused, misunderstood, and ethically wrong. Beyond that, they somehow make you feel bad/pity for them while elevating themselves to a position of “better than.”
God it must be so horrific to be raised by these kinds of petty, manipulative, disingenuous abusers. I am so sorry for any precious little soul who has ever been left in the care of such empty, hateful kinds of people. I just want to give you all a hug and say "YOU always have been deserving of LOVE and your being is WHOLE and HEALTHY- it is THEM who are WRONG"
"No no no no no no no no no no no, no diddly no, hell to the no, hell to the niz-o, no, no no no no that won't work" Love how you get worked up and passionate over making sure people understand what you mean.
This video is giving me severe anxiety, but in a proper way. I am eternally grateful for finally finding someone who can brilliantly articulate the craziness. Thanks for this!!
I thought the same thing..lol..I have a LONG history with a lot of narcs.. NOW.. I am trying to decide if my "new" crazy should be kept as a practice workbook, lol, I have him on "dump to voicemail" and don't have voicemail... He blew it on his first few attempts when I couldn't decide if he was a genuine nice person or a crazy... He went crazy briefly...chewing me out for having no voicemail.. Hahahaha... So when I saw he called next..I called and left a message on HIS voicemail.."Yeah I saw you called what do you need now?" He waited for weeks and called me to do ME a favor..hahahaha his verbal nervousness was SO evident...I told him I did not need what he was offering...and he admitted he wanted a favor from someone else and wanted to tell the guy it was for me..hahahaha I might pace myself and practice on him...because I WAS ALMOST FOOLED...HE REALLY SEEMED LIKE A NICE PERSON
I started watching old music videos I used to enjoy as a kid and playing old video games that I played back then. Getting back to the person you used to be is such a great way to heal. It's like experiencing life again before you knew who the narcissist was. Finding out about the narcissist is like coming to a fork in the road of your life and going down the wrong road, then you realize you can turn your vehicle around, go back to the fork and take the other path to some place better, but you'll always have the knowledge of what exists on that bad path with the narcissist.
Agree 💯. I’ve been getting old vinyl and CDs out and it’s surprising how uplifted you feel. Although there are times that I can hear him trying to tease me varied tastes in my music. Such a beautiful analogy sir. Hat off to you.
I started paint again like before narcissist, and started learn new things like knit. It´s helping to heal for me. And like you said - start to remember who i am, who i was before narcissist. Live again.
Doesn't matter what you say or do,it's always you and your fault if they need it to be you and your fault. Never ending story. Very good explanation of extremely unpleasant situations. 🙏🦋
and when the "shutters " come down they get the satisfaction of watching you become frustrated with the inability to communicate or have closure in the situation..
I am going through the process of ending a friendship with one. Since I discovered her true self, she always uses word salad so I just do it back as it doesnt matter anymore, I'll never see her again.
How you described ambient abuse and meta-communication made my heart sink into my stomach. I would go through MONTHS of this. I would ask for communication but she would just say I’m suffocating her and that I’m being paranoid and crazy and insecure. After maybe 6 months of this, she would finally admit what was going on and it would be this huge fight. I don’t mean healthy fighting. It would be for DAYS! And the word salad thing, fuck! 😂 She would never answer directly. An hour later I’m confused and apologizing. Dude. Thank you!! And I thought I was the narcissist. 😫
The covert narcissist will ply you for personal information and then feed your personal information back to you as a subtle insult in front of others, which can be hard for you to prove. I had a client who I had to share some personal info with and then she was doing a video interview and she subtly insulted me with my own personal info in her video interview, I couldn’t believe it, but if I reacted I would look crazy.
Steve Owner my grand mother does that, only she twists what she hears or sees to look and sound evil because she’s a religious zealot. Then spreads it over the telephone.
Tense dialogue, such as an interrogation, drains our energy faster, and we all have a reservoir and hit the threshold or breaking point when it runs empty. In an interrogation, the confession comes to stop the increasingly more uncomfortable/painful process of being probed and drained of energy when you're already at your weakest point, which feels incredibly mentally and physically taxing. it's similar as to how malicious gossip or terrible insults can lead to suicide in someone who is depressed, but a healthy person with a healthy reservoir of energy built up, who's headstrong and has healthy boundaries, wouldn't experience nearly the same kind of pain or self-destruction that malicious gossip could cause someone who's already in a weakened state. There is a measurable energy basis to this. No doubt.
I have found that Cerebral Narcs need to compete with you even when you are not competing with them but just sharing information. When they find out about narcissism and realise that they can relate to it, they use this knowledge and transfer what they have discovered onto their target and use psychological terms, such as, 'gaslighting', when in fact they are only identifying themselves.
Definitely, I was always confused why mine was competitive with me. He would always say my kids thought I was crazy. "Everyone thinks your crazy". I never understood why the competition.
@@reneemoncrief559 yep. Takes all your authority of mother away behind your back. Kids are equal with dad, mom is "just different. Doesn't really care ...
I feel same about the covert narcissist with I had the terrible experience. I first thought to confront him and tell him what he was doing and he is a covert narcissist. Then it occurred to me that he is a crazy man he could use that information to abuse other innocent women. They are very terrible people.
I have been considering my ex "fiance" a covert narcissist because out in public he's a complete gentleman and hard working man who everyone loves, but at home with me he was a lying, cheating, mean you know what. No one would ever believe my side. In the beginning he was so sweet and loving, we moved in together and I later found out he was sleeping with prostitutes, people at our job, and even started a smear campaign behind my back and had me lose my job while still acting fine with me at home like he had nothing to do with it and I didnt have a clue!! He always started fights with me and said the meanest things ever been told to me in my life, but God forbid I ever said the slightest thing back to him it would be the end of the world. I never heard of a narcissist in my life until dating him and people would warn me when I would explain things going on because I would be so upset and sad. This man brought me to my knees. Does he sound like a narcissist or just a mean guy?
Sounds like a narcissist. I’m so sorry you went through that. It’s so frustrating when they smear your name, and make you look like the bad guy because they appear so innocent and nice with coworkers and friends
My Wife has cheated on me hundreds of times. She has zero female friends. I gave up having sex with her out of disgust and she justifies her immoral cheating by telling men that I can't get it up so she has to sleep with other men...
In my case she made my entire life chaos - house looked like an explosion in a laundry factory, finances always in chaos, always losing things causing even more stress and changing jobs more often than some people change their underwear. There was always something to worry about - well for me to worry about, it was invariably her creating the chaos and me spending all my time picking up the pieces. It's like they can't exist without drama and chaos.
Dave Shuttleworth OMG... peace and quiet and control of responsibility is what I cherish the most after leaving the narc. And can totally relate to being the one left with the responsibility of irrational worries because your partner is insanely irresponsible. I would say it was like living inside of a circus except some of those worries were not only NOT funny but also life preserving too!
@@sarahmk2966 It is on purpose. The proof that its intentional is that theyre perfectly sensible when it suits them. And theres really no stopping them. Unless you get mean or walk.
Very interesting and funny. My ex literally blames everybody but himself for his misfortunes in life. He also does that trick where he calls me a "dickhead" and then when I ask him not to talk to me that way he says "no no no, you're the aggressor, you called me a dickhead" Wtf Yes it's exhausting 🤯
And if you refuse to lose your temper you're accused of being a fake Snow White. Doesnt matter how you are or what you say it's already been decided who you are and what youre trying to say. Because it's not about what youre trying to say it's about what they perceive youre trying to say. So there is never sincere resolution in any conversation I guess. That's what I'm getting from this video. Thank you Richard.
@Transhumanist Cult Awareness Network this happened this morning. It left me reeling and wanting to just shut down and say yes to everything. I realise I could have said my shopping list and got the same result. The purpose was let's address how awful you are so we dont address something iv done. Simple. I think.
Its a catch 22.. They dont want you to win.. They never learned to play.. They just want your energy. If you detach yourelf (the battery) from the device, the device shuts down ;D
@@thenaturalpeoplesbureau thank you. Iv given him zero attention whatsoever today. Detached the battery. But then again he told me to. I'm not to talk to him but well talk later. Ergo I'm none the wiser. I'm really taken aback as this morning before I just agreed with everything I did say I dont understand all the catch 22s. They are everywhere. Spot on.
@@joshuafalade4754 that's thought provoking. Thank you. It's now sulking time and I'm being basically ignored. Over one question I was nervous to ask. We can go weeks of things seeming normal and lovely. I'm not special. I'm just different. As nothing makes a difference I'm doing nothing today. This will go on for days til I do something right and right now I dont know what that might be.
Nolite des bastardes Carorundorum, you are so right! It’s already been decided who you are and what your intentions are. I wish you all the best. Try to get out if you can. Peace.
This rings home on so many levels. I've made my peace with my ex (I thankfully grew the spine to leave his ass) being a narc, but it's still mind blowing how many of his traits are described in these videos about covert narcissism. Once he turned a simple question into a discussion about semantics. Absolutely exhausting. He did this so often that I started to blame myself, thinking I must just be a horrible communicator. I went with it for a while, trying to explain what I meant, feeling like I was talking to a toddler, until I had enough of his bs. When I told him, that I felt like he was playing dumb and just arguing for the sake of being in the right, he got upset and didn't talk to me for the rest of the night.
I am a couple of minutes into this video, and it echoes the interaction between everyone at present. People aren't interested in the facts or sincerity.
@Lenni H Absolutely. They think what they *feel* is 100% factual. You could put scientific data in front of them and force them to look and listen and so many people would still deny those facts! It's incredible.
@@Jane.Doe. Exactly why we are here. To control our emotions by looking at them objectively and see the emotion for what it is.... a REACTION or RESPONSE to what the input was and the emotion is NOT the input. Brainwashed to ignore their own intelligence so they cannot see the truth.
OMG I have learned soooo much. This is my husband to the T. There have been so many times that I asked myself if I was crazy. I wish I saw this a long time ago.
Hi Richard and all.Ive got to disagree with the comment thing as I’ll be honest I’ve been obsessed reading comments and was aware of my strange way of dealing with such pain and trauma but I feel that being so alone and suicidal reading comments saved my life and kept me sane and I found it to be my kinda therapy and friend as I’ve not one single friend and was so scared of breaking. But yeah a year on lol I’m finally healing and feeling more normal than ever and I know that comments was my only friend and medication to heal. We all handle things in Diff ways but I’ve a few mental health conditions and don’t trust in people but love people so to me comments was my way of hearing peoples options/hurt/rants lol and it helped me to heal, but it might not work for all as I’m awkward lol but yes ty for comments people and Richard and a few other life savers that I sank deep into listening and learning and helping my mind keep strong as when we don’t have our mind sane..well our own same/normal..then we have lost our will sanity to fight on. I hope I’m not judged here as I see what heals and works for one person may not be good for the next. Thanks guys and keep ya mind strong and love to all oh and forgive and mostly Forgive and love yourself. Xx
Their shame is different than my shame. I never considered that before. I had an overt narc, got out (thankfully without physical harm) and years later managed to find a covert. I was fooled by their remorse and talk about their therapy/support group work. Realizing the shame was only because they haven’t been able to achieve the power and position they “rightfully” deserve. Very eye opening! Thank you!
That is sad. I totally recognise my son who is graduating psychology using all those techniques with me. There is no communication but just word salads for hours on end, crazy making to break me. We are going through very difficult times but I am not feeling sympathy anymore for the bullying got too much. Sad. He is doing like his father and it is heartbreaking for me.
Curious ? Question, Richard if you happen to see this , are there any studies out with numbers showing increases in these behaviors in a certain age group? Cheers X
@@trayseewritesstuffh8757 he is turning 23 and I am going through a divorce with his dad after 30 years. He is following the same footsteps and using all the psy jargon in a very sadistic way.
@DIANNE that is truly heartbreaking, when there is a behavioral pattern with our kids no matter the age it is s completely different level of emotions. It is devastating to a parent to have a disconnect with our children. I can't wrap my head around this personality type being psychologist, and raises the question...how many choose the career path of psychology to get their supply?
The one thing most of us should take from this video. The narcissistic need for control is both infantile and volatile towards those they choose to pull emotional supply from. They will protect their own selves at all costs even if it means the complete destruction of another individual. That means controlling and manipulating to stay on top of their totem pole relationships with others. I've found that treating them like a belligerent child to be very effective in putting them in their place and letting them realize in that moment that they need to go away and not return
Yeah, that's exactly who they are. This makes me shudder at the thought of.. how destructive can children be (when brought up in an unhealthy environment). Kindergarden is probably harder than I imagined or remember :)
@Jason Bradley Can you give an example of what 'treating them like a belligerent child' would/could look like? I could use some help with this myself, concerning my (adult) sister.
This really hit home for me. One of the best things I took away from this was the idea of the covert vs classic overt narcissist, and that they can flip depending circumstance - on whether or not they are in a position of power. This💡 really was an ah-ha moment for me!😳😁
I’m bullied so terribly and if it wasn’t for people like you making these videos I don’t know how I could even face this world anymore at all. It’s so hard being isolated from everyone and that’s especially true when I am around people in various numbers. It’s so painful and your work is making me feel like I can face reality and be alive… and I don’t have to mentally leave or physically isolate to escape the pain.
I haven't seen my son for 5 years and he rang and said "I suppose if I ask for money you will say no" "NO" He then starts to tell me I pushed him once and scratched him. He then asked if I want him to ring again. "No". Thank you for all your videos Richard as they have helped heal my broken heart. He has a good job and so does his wife. SMH.
@Transhumanist Cult Awareness Network abusive? Really? He claimed she did those things once or twice a a guilt tripping mechanism to get her to give up the cash.This is exactly what Richard is talking about ABUSE of LANGUAGE! If she was so bad he shouldn't be looking for her to get money from. She could have pushed him off of her because he was getting out of line. I guess you totally ignored the part where she said he and his wife both have money, these are the people NOT to be sorry for. Narcs are extreme drama kings and queens.
Your 100% on the switching my ex husband made really good money owning his own business and was both overt and covert... Overt at work with his buddy’s and covert with me at home...🤷🏼♀️ Mine would ignore me days on end for no reason at all and I would be trying to figure out what I did... I had a best friend that was like my sister and husband broke up that relationship... Years later when I was trying to repair that relationship he freaked out and literally made up a story saying I told him that My friend and I would hook up ... 😳 I was so dumbfounded I looked at him and was like wtf I have never said that what are you talking about ... He would always tell me I said things that I never said and then call me a lair... Mine would also fight with me for hours and hours like into the middle of the night... Just going around in circles until I would say sorry even tho I didn’t do what he was saying because I was going insane... 5 years of that and then started figuring it out then stayed another 5 years cause I was so confused and broken... That fucker... 😹🤷🏼♀️
19:09 "Remember as a narcissist I never interact with you. I can't. I can only interact with the Avatar of you that I hold inside myself that I have absorbed because I don't have the ego boundaries to say this is me and that's you, everything is me. I'm still a toddler." After the toddler / Avatar phase of metacommunication the narc morphs back into the passive-aggressive word salad, crazy-making , attack. Being hyper conscientious you eventually accept the accusations of something you did or did not even do/ or say as being real, just to get the crazy making torturous confusion to stop. After a lifetime of crazy making the vulnerable narcissist in my life had forced the fake reality down my throat squashing my authenticity.
familiar with all the terms. watched them play out in a husband of less than one year :) I am an artist. I love your visuals. the bloated tick... wonderful. made me smile even as I am disgusted with what I stepped into for a year. your accent and its own ways of expressing is also nice to hear similar things described in a fresh and humorous way.
You hit it perfectly...their inner critic and self talk is incredible! When you become aware that they are dysregulated, the abuse ramps up..They are so fragile, that they can't believe they could have anything decent or good so they set out to kill it before it kills them..sabotage anything decent to match the pictures in their head of themselves.
Confirmation. It’s as if you have walked the tunnels of my mind and read the graffiti left behind by the Cluster B orgies of feigned love, intimacy and connection. It began at birth and has continued a lifetime. The most recent years have been learning on how to get free, and stay free, rather than surviving within the chaos. Confirmation. Eerily validating even in the word phrases that you use in the video to describe certain situations, attachments and reactions. It is well worth the effort, time and investment these productions. Thank you.
OMG - you describe it perfectly - I felt my blood pressure going up listening to you as I remembered some of the daily crazy making stuff that happened - and nobody got it - not my friends, family, etc - so glad you do!!! Thanks for these videos!
ALMOST nobody gets it. I am very careful to whom I bring this subject to. Then on the other hand I have a few rare friends who knew all about this before I ever had an inkling. In addition I can look back on people in my life that were strange. Now I know what was wrong with them.
I have acess to all the best narcissists. Sitting alone in nature helps to know how at peace i am with myself. I still have inner work to do. I love your antics
This is taking my breath away, every description I'm saying omg, omg. I started putting up boundaries, pointing out his logical fallacies and then stopped reacting to the bait hoping he'd grow up, see what he was doing. A 15 year relationship where I feel I gave 80 to his 20%. He left me when I stopped participating in his nonsense
I'm watching this again. Its deep. Todays word salad I think. Me: "Can we talk about this problem?" Them: "I told you to bring issues to me immediately. Why did you take two days to address something? Iv spent days trying so hard to please you. You should have waited 3 weeks. So this current situation is entirely your fault. Not even your son can deal with you. Hes quite entitled to call you names. I'm shouting because I'm emotional. You think youre so good by not raising your voice. I can't stand when you're emotional anyway. I take it as personal criticism.". And on and on. Nothing I could say made any difference so I stopped. The response to my silence was "so? Is this issue finished with then? Good". And yes its crazy making.
@@crinishorela used the hand mnemonic. Remembered I can control my emotional state. That made it worse. I was wrong for being calm, reasonable. I was either faking it or trying to be a better person. I also timed it. 36 minutes. Afterwards I privately cried. And then this video came. It helped me to see that conversation had nothing to do with resolution. It was character assassination to detract from I wanted to ask a question that would put him in an uncomfy position. I never got resolution. He told me I'd got resolution. and I guess that answers everything.
The avatar, oh my gosh, I was always being shunned for stepping outside the the little bubble version of me he had in his head. It was SO damaging, especially when you don't know there are people out there like this. He would never come out and tell me anything, he'd just ignore me when I was being myself. It was very stressful because I was constantly confused. It really messed me up.
Going deep Richard! Thank you. The judging I was receiving from the ex vulnerable narcissist was so subtle, all I knew was I went from feeling so safe sharing all my thoughts, feelings and history to shutting down completely. As I did notice he went from sharing info to not sharing ANYTHiNG, then so did I. The energy put in by them on the negative, what a waste of time they could be putting into bettering themselves. It would take half the energy. Richard, you are really hitting on the missing pieces I have been wondering about with the vulnerable narcissist. I guess I am obsessed with every little motivation of the covert because it was so so confusing. If I don't understand, I feel I won't see it next time. My stomach is turning just listing to you. Flashbacks, ha, the worst pain. I was so naive, never in my wildest dreams did I know people like this existed. They are fucking awful!
Thank you. Your videos are validating and you’re helping me to feel sane. You’re helping me feel more calm and confident that I’m a human being who does deserve to live here on earth just as much as everyone else does. 😢
Now I know why I was so anxiety ridden at my beauty shop. My 'hairdresser/running buddy' was 'signaling'. I could feel she was unhappy with me, but I could never figure out why. And yes I did feel super judged if I didn't go into the shop when she decided it was time. She mastered exuding wrongness with ever breath/look. I dreaded going to the beauty shop. The abuse went on at dinner. In our favorite restaurant she would close her eyes and not talk. In fact she 'signaled' she was unhappy with me on the way to the restaurant, by not talking. I am thankfully NO CONTACT now for 10 months. This is seriously illuminating. Thank you Richard.
Richard my mother is a covert narcissist. Thanks so much for bringing it home to me that there never is any meaningful communication. I kind of thought it but didn’t want to believe it. All golden advice on surviving with a narc parent.
True, they like to push buttons. You have to remain calm, keeping your emotions in check. Stand firm and walk away from them. I live next door to a covert narcissist, and I've had problems with him in the past, where I called the cops on him for harassment. After that incident, I no longer communicate with him and pretend he doesn't exist. He gives me deadly stares, but I look in an opposite direction. He wants to get a reaction, and I refuse to give in. They never give up in trying to intimidate and harass their victims
This is so helpful, thank you. Especially the crazy pointless conversation. I spent years not understanding how the conversations turned out like they did and oh the exasperation of trying to explain myself over and over, in different ways. 4 years on I'm still having to have contact because of my daughter, who is now also struggling. I watch these videos from time to time to remind me of my own sanity and keep me grounded in knowing what I'm dealing. By the time I left this marriage I felt I was so broken down that if I did not get away I might not surface again.
I wish I wish, I wish I had found you, about 1 1/2 years ago. I started looking into all of this approximately 4 months ago. I just got rid of a so-called "covert narcissist" 3 weeks ago. Wow, I could have saved myself a lot of time and energy. I'm okay, she didn't, couldn't groom me, she did turn violent, verbally, emotionally, and physically. I stayed because I did love her, I felt sorry for her and I hoped if I was patient she'll heal, come around.
I actually find a little bit of comfort knowing that, in essence, the covert narcissist understands the loser that they are (at least relative to an overt narcissist). 😬
Ha! My ex even said once he wanted a tattoo... I said what are you wanting, he said a backward L on my for head” can you believe this! Cute? No so much, manipulative loser that knew he was a loser! In the mirror the L would be L!
Acting clueless is the cornerstone of my Ex's way of "communicating." Smart woman with a masters in marriage counseling (the inroy is not lost on me). And it worked for a long time. I actually felt needed because she made me feel smart. In reality, it was just a tactic to get me to do whatever it was she wanted. During the divorce she started using it on my kids, who were teenagers at the time. Even they wanted to know why their mom seemed "clueless" about things even they understood. It's part of her victim mentality. IT's all confusing and misleading and frustrating. It wasn't until I figured this out (with Richard's help) that i was able to step back and see it. Now, it makes me laugh just how silly it all is (but still very frustrating). A saying I was taught is "observe, don't absorb."
Several months of torturous couples therapy with my VNarc saying they just couldn't remember things and contradicting or diverting questions with word salad and tearful/angry walkouts. Lots of projecting their behaviors on me and saying they couldn't trust me and were afraid of me. I began to live in dread all week of the next session and the ride home. I had to drive separately and then finally had to say I was done because there was no progress. I dread what's coming next, but it has to be done.
@@laraesque therapy with narc is a total waste of your time and energy. They thrive in such environments, leaving you completely drained and frustrated etc. There are useless therapists that narcs have ability to win over on the first visit. Don't dread the inevitable, after it's done and you reclaim your life back, you will look back thinking I should have been celebrating. I know it's difficult to see light at the end of tunnel especially if kids are invoved. But you'll be doing them a favour in the long run. They deserve to be living in a healthy comfortable environment. Even if it's only whilst with you they'll see/feel the difference, well ahead of there maturity. Chin up, your not alone, also don't fear what others will think or gossip, be yourself, your true friends will step forward and others you thought were friends will disappear.
@@jackleko2197 I completely agree. Thank you for your kind words of encouragement. 6+ months of couples counseling was a nightmare. What I dread now is the mediation for assets. I'm retired and could be on the street if I don't get a reasonable settlement. That's a vulnerability they will exploit. I have been through it before with a sociopath/psychopath. After a protracted 3-year divorce and order of protection for my kids where I actually "won" but was left on food stamps after paying lawyers, I am cautious. My kids are grown now, and reestablishing a relationship after the massively inappropriate smear campaign with the previous situation took time. There was no way to fight the town-wide smear campaign. That's fine. But my kids... The smear campaign is happening again, although not on the same scale, and I just deplore it.
I have to stop at 7.30 just to say OMG. Richard, you are a mile ahead of everybody else in understanding the reality of narcissistic behaviour. Your understanding of the true real life manifestations of their manipulative behaviour is beyond belief. As if you knew my husband first hand. I've made the mistake of explaining over and over again for YEARS thinking I just wasn't clear enough, thorough enough, etc.
You are right I had a covert narc ex best friend who tried to use passive aggressive behaviour towards me to gain control. She hated the fact I had my own life own thoughts and a boyfriend. She tried to launch a word salad attack against me from about 7 different angles in a txt rant and she tried to bait me into explaining myself on things that never happened or her twisted truths. I simply put back that if I had this many problems with and felt so victimised as you I have I wouldn’t want this someone to be a part of my life. Because she was probably stunned that she couldn’t bait me she took 10 days to reply back with another 6-7 different angles about all the things she didn’t like about me. I didn’t even open the message but I could see most of it because she sent it on WhatsApp and it appeared on my screen. She even went as far as to say I’m an evil person because I didn’t like her next door neighbours dog that I’d never met 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 You have to just walk away from people like this and block them. As I didn’t respond to her message she waited another 15 or so days to say some childhood friend you are you didn’t wish me a happy birthday…like I’m the Villain and that she had done nothing wrong. I then decided to remain silent and change my number best decision I ever made. These coverts will suck the life out of you if you let them
You have a firm grip on EXACTLY what goes on. How refreshing it is to know that not only am I not crazy, after all...but I am not alone in this crazy journey. I am 42 years married with exactly what you described. Thank you for validating my crazy life/relationship.
This is EXACTLY what I am dealing with. And it was why I could not see what it was because the personality seems to flip flop. It was only after I learned about both types, that I could see what the underlying structure was. First, the covert behavior, woe is me; then as our business grew and his fame did, I dealt with overt anger, sarcasm, and general happiness in being able to “lord it over” everyone. Now it is back the other way because events have humbled him a bit. -Thanks for the video. It confirmed my theory.
Having broken up with my fragile narcissist just yesterday - after 8 long years of suffering - I've come across this video. And I've decided that I'll play it almost everyday from min 16:23 to min 16:32, as a strong reminder to the question "Have I made a mistake?" Hahaha Those 10 seconds are just brilliant, and so is the video! Anyway, thank you so much for doing these videos - they are very helpful!
I have studied this for awhile and as much as I hate to say it...I just finished dating a Narc. The scary part is that she is textbook 100 percent. You could literally predict what she was going to say or do by the information learned. She even used the words that the sources used as examples. It’s almost as if she studied it herself to master it like a skill she wanted to learn. Anyways I have a hard time living in this world knowing that there are people that are wired like this and don’t even see themselves. It’s petty scary like I fell into a different dimension. I’m 39 and just now learning there is evil robots programmed almost identical. I found your channel by far the best. Thank you for doing these videos because no matter what I studied so far I still learn from your videos. Instead of just writing a list, you really explain with intellectual level. The question I have is, since it’s impossible to have a sincere conversation even a rational one, then how do these people ever learn anything if they are incapable of listening. I can seriously point out facts and show cause and effect, and it’s liking talking to a robot that is stuck in repeat. They are demons.
Lies binds (and blinds), truth frees. Thank you Richard for every post you upload keeps me from breaking non- contact. I listen carefully to every word you say and I've learned so much about myself and the people I let into my life. We bond with them, they don't bond with us...
Gary Klein? I'm his biggest fan! You are quoting his video. I love that video. I have been rewatching it for years. I'm glad you experts talk to each other. I hope Gary is doing well. That video is iconic.
The point is there is no point, there is always one more level of game was a mantra I got from RG and used to disengage and go NC with the ex wife one year after we split. So many cyclic arguments. I'd cover all ponts and she would go back to the start, I 'd fall for it and in the rabbit hole I stayed, eventually becoming ill with CPTS. I forgot the mantra when I met the ex gf 3 years later because I had not healed. 3 years after that I finally got out in December and this time have healed with therapy that I fully embraced and put the work in unlike in 2019/20 when I used it as a magic pill and it simply came back. 8 months on I'm on me tod still and happiest I've been in almost 25 years. Awesome vid 🙏
You saved my life literally! I've been watching for months now and two days ago had to put my narc in jail to get out. Things got violent with weapons. You've opened my eyes and I've started my work to heal so this never happens again. Having 3 narcs in my life enuf is enuf! Thank goodness this one was only 8 months I believe I'll move past it quickly because after 2 nights of peace I already feel better. I never believed the crap he was saying to tear me down because I was listening to YOU instead. Thank you for all your wisdom and tools I will be using them every day :) This video gave me a good much needed laugh.
I wonder how many marriages could be described like this. The worst thing the target can do to the narc is say ,"Are you angry at me or at the situation?".
Iv asked that question. I didnt get an answer but its always a case of being told who I am and what I think or feel or what iv done. It's not about the situation.
In my experience he was happy if he could parade me in public and berate me in the middle of the night for hours. Calm requests for a list of my failings when he was not in a drunken rage were ignored. There was no fun in that I guess. Towards the end he was shouting at and threatening our friends as well.
@@nolitedesbastardescarborun51 This might seem obvious these days but just in case you haven't heard of him, Jordan Peterson is good at inspriring groundness. Understatement.
It’s funny how I kick myself for taking 20 minutes to remove myself from a crazy making conversation, after taking 20 years to recognize being in a crazy making relationship. Progress, not perfection!
Try 50 yrs on and off, I have never felt so stupid. I'd take so much then pull away because that little warning bell went off inside my head. But I the gas lighting made me feel I was over reacting and he'd reel me back in and I fell for his sad stories and on and on it goes.
I’ve come here to confirm if my husband is a covert narcissist. He’s told me I’m crazy and “twist his words” I’m genuinely confused today if I am or he is. All I can see is there’s no deliberate game playing or deviousness behind my behaviour . Of o ever eventually explode I’m hurt at my final straw over something he’s done and after years of not feeling like he cares or understands my side .
I just wanted to say Thank You for this video. There is a strange feeling of awakening when you describe the fragile narcissist, and how it describes people in my family. I'm not sure what these things say about me yet, but I hope to learn. I hope this information will improve my life.
#1 thing - A Disorder is "Permanent, Personal and Pervasive" (from about 8min on). Narcissists, especially fragile/vulnerable are able to moderate/modulate behaviours as a strategy to a) get what they want b) to calm/control the retriggered trauma in a situation. Lesson for me - as a kind, caring, empathetic person, I felt the need to heal the deeply wounded child within her. Now, in order to heal myself, I need to learn to distance myself from that child, perhaps even to allow myself to hate her. The reason is that the Narcissist (especially the fragile/vulnerable ones) actively chooses to manipulate. They know well enough what they are doing. It is how they get their kicks - perversely! If love, caring and connection were only experienced (or defined) by their absence, or inconsistency, that pattern becomes the norm. (I just searched online....loads of stuff! Wow!) The rest of the video was such a chilling parallel with my own experience - I could not communicate with her in any meaningful way, the gaslighting, word salad, the cognitive dissonance. My fear is this Covid/lockdown etc period will help them grow in power!
the story about the ex made me lmfao. when they start twitching and put the crazy eyes on lol. Quinn said it best in Jaws.. Like a dolls eyes. they don’t seem like they’re even living till they bite ya 😂
Married to one for 35 years!!! Took your videos to make sense of the crazy making. He started out a real mix. Transitioned into overt the more he gained control over me and the more I was people pleasing. In the past 4 years of study and self work, my boundary setting has turned him to be very covert, fragile, and vulnerable. I was brought up in a home with absent father, 5 siblings and an over worked mother who worked full time to help pay bills, who, fortunately was loving! But taught us all how to pull our weight and we did all we could to help her, out of love. That doesn’t work with a narc. He has never shed a tear. So now, co-isolating with him is a real challenge. ‘Poor me’ alternates with the anger and passive aggression. He drinks to sooth himself more now. I am still cooking for us ( doesn’t cook) and trying to disengage and stay in my part of the house. Oh! Covid cannot end soon enough so we can get our first court hearing and separate!
Why can’t my narcissistic family leave me alone? First come the fake concerning messages, next come the spiritual quotes, now the threats of appearing at my job. The never ending, exhausting cycle is so predictable now. I just want them to forget I exist! Kind of how they treated me my entire childhood.
Yup. I'm there with my mom. The frustrating thing is... If she'd leave it alone for like, a month, I'd probably get back on touch. If she'd even lie convincingly. But she can't even do that much. She has to win and be right.
Absolut genau so ist mein Exfreund. Früher sehr erfolgreich, war CEO eines großen Konzerns, inzwischen in Rente, aber diese Vergangenheit füttert seinen grandiosen Narzisst. Im Privatleben ist eher immer gescheitert, 2 Ehefrauen weg, die Kinder beide mit psychischen Problemen ... ich fand ihn also auch als "lost puppy".
Omg! My ex-boyfriend was like this soooooo much with me! Contradiction from one sentence to the next, re-wording my statements as an argument against my statements, completely changing the subject into absolute nonsense! I would seethe for hours after these interactions, it was horrible!
This is by far the most suited person I've ever seen on line breaking down the ways of these demons... I really pray that one day they will just be with each other....
OMG the shaking rage "I'm fine" for hours... Like wtf??? And the hours of word salad rants which is the most "conversation" from them I had. I'd be sad but I'm all good here without any of it!! Thank you Richard. You are a rockstar 😉
Thank you for this video Richard and thank you for eye opening on so many things. It’s like you’re saying all this reading my mind and knowing my exact situation. It’s exactly what it is -> puppy eyes “I feel so much shame, this shame is toxic for me, you wounded this little boy inside of me and I can’t trust you anymore. I won’t open more for you because you abused my trust…” which causes love more, understand more and endure more mental abuse than before… until you’re drained to the point you don’t want to wake up in the morning and almost can’t remember your name. For a long time I lived in the terrible feeling that I was the cause of the problem. So many videos of yours explained a lot to me. And mainly help me to stay strong and never consider getting back to this vicious cycle.
I got into a situation just like this the other day on FB. I was trying to voice my thoughts on how our country would benefit from universal healthcare. I made the mistake of making this comment on a friends page who I already knew holds some ridged far right beliefs. I also made the mistake of thinking that b/c this person was my "Friend" that we could have a civil debate about it. For the very 1st time in 5 years I suddenly realized how passive aggressive & covert her verbal aggression is. Her NOW obvious & deliberate attempts to make me look like a "ridiculous bleeding heart", so I would then have to defend my position, were very eye opening. I now realize she just kept going until I lost my shit so she could then say- See! Liberals can never debate rhe facts without getting all emotional!" It was a HUGE lightbulb moment! I SAW the gaslighting & word salad happening and bowed out feeling very frustrated. After watching this I realize I need to go thru and do some pruning of my FB "Friends List".
Yeah... I've noticed this used to be more of a right trait to be verbally provocative... But it's contagious to both sides now, sadly. I feel like a lot on this forum...right or left fall victim to these types. They refuse to validate your views. You're always knocked down. And if not invalidating it... they one up your experience. It's irritating. I used to feel hurt... But now i realized i actually am made angry by it. I find it annoying. That allows me to realize I want to avoid a person like this instead of begging then to stop hurting me or begging to be heard. It helps! It has made me yell before... But after processing... I'm just now ready to politely change the subject and then find an exit plan. I still get hooked sometimes... But a LOT less! Progress, not perfection. Memorizing phrases like "interesting" "that's one way to look at it!" when insulted... "I'm sorry you feel that way. I don't agree but of course you have the right to your opinion." it sabes you from begging for them to become decent. Then you regain your power and get a chance to breathe. Its like getting out of barbed wire. If you just rage out of it it'll hurt worse than untangling and maneuvering. They. is. tricky!
My older brother. Since as far back as I can remember. Pruning this person from your list may not be the end of the story. You may have reason to interact with her in the future, especially if you have friends in common. Always, always remember: no matter what she says or does, she is exactly what she showed you in the comments section. Regardless of what she says or does, or what your mutual friends do or say about her, she has not and will not change. It's very sad and very hard to keep in mind when things are good. It took me decades to realize the pattern of bullying, followed by almost extreme friendliness (with absolutely no acknowledgement of the bullying incident) to which I would capitulate with relief, followed again by bullying. The pattern never, ever changes because the narc has never, ever cared.
@@eurokay4755 My mother & youngest sister both played out this situation w/ me my whole life. I think it is why it took me so long to recognize it in my marriage & circle of friends. I was used to it, so I repeated it in almost ALL my relationships. Ive gone NC with my mother & sister. Im also working towards ending my marriage. This latest incident isnt the 1st time this has happened w/this "friend" but it will be the last. Our sons used to play a sport together but they are grown, and my son moved away. I have little to no interaction w/ her outside the rare ulumni game or running into eachother in town. I will be polite if I see her, but I no longer feel the need to waste my time or attention on someone who has always made it clear that she thinks she's better than me. Im glad that Im at a point where I can identify the people that no longer deserve a seat at my table. I might be aliitle late to dinner, but at least I finally got here. Thank you for your responce & advice.
@@youtubingbabs I have definately spent most of my life looking for validation. Ive also put up with alot of abusive behavior I shouldnt have, in order to prove myself "worthy" to people. It has taken the better part of 2 years to get to a point where Ive decided I would rather be alone than made to feel "less than" by ghe people around me. I still have work to do when it comes to letting go but I am determined to spend the 2nd half of my life making healthier connections & friendships.
Thank you. Covert. This makes sense. Passive aggressive behaviour. Very sneaky. Narcissistic supply... Interesting. He drank my milkshake, bloats... Attention. Thirsty demon... Thats what he became. He feels shame and humiliation but he can not be compassionate. He bullies himself. Super ego. So true. This makes so much sense. Fragile. Total crazy making. This is bang on. Always bringing me down. He could never interact with me intimately. He was always angry. Judged. Abandonment. Never happy. Accusing me and picking away. Never communicating. Always changed the topic. It is exhausting.
“A series of Interlocking, cascading, emotional flashback based predatory responses to perceived or real threat” 💜💜💜🎶🎶🎶 absolutely beautifully described 222
You just accurately described my father. Living with him felt like I'm living with a wife, but worse, 'cause you're young and your father have power over you [physical abuse included, to the point I was limping as a child, and blood coming out of my mouth as a teen, etc]. I still have nightmares with him from time to time, and him commenting stuff I do in my head. I know it's an introject tho, and I try to not pay much attention. And yeah, he totally acts like I'm the bad son and he's just a victim, always trying to do best for me, and nonsense like that. Video describes this stuff accurately.
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What's the #1 thing you pulled from the video?
A match!
Not to leave you tube comments...? 😆🤷🏻♀️
That it just clarified my belief that every time they reach out it's a hidden agenda that eventually comes out. All the lies, manipulation and just emotionless, meaningless and fake words they use thinking I'm fucking stupid. When they cant win with me via comms, that's when the name calling begins. Hence my laughter starts because it's so predictable and pattern driven
Sorry no pity, no mercy and I've even stopped using my energy to pray for their soul.
To stop giving me away in conversations with people I know, don't even see me as a real person. Its not worth the emotional investment.
RICHARD GRANNON that the point is - “there is no point”.
My favorite phrase from you “ abandon all sincere communication with the narcissist “
Exactly. The N Husband was driving me and the kids crazy. But now I know his play and do not share anything important with him anymore. This saves my mind and gives me the power to prepare everything for the escape.
If you don't fear losing them, then they fear losing control, and go right to full blown hate mode.
@L 0 V E & Gratitude you are another self you doubted her..doubt is a big no no, and you will be punished accordingly
@L 0 V E & Gratitude you are another self mine drove us both off a 20 ft cliff because she thought I was cheating because I got a random female friend suggestion on FB. Then told the cops she blacked out. But I watched her jerk the wheel as soon as she saw an opening in the guardrail. I'm lucky to be alive. I know what you're going through
@@yourallbrainwashed it seems as though your life is in danger mate. Get away
@@yourallbrainwashed also don't Indulge her. Staying
feeds her ego, think of it like that. Don't be her supply.
@L 0 V E & Gratitude you are another self hope you get away safely also. Don't be her supply
narcissists never interact with you. they can only interact with the avatar of you that they have absorbed. explains why you can never truly feel seen or heard by them. really great video, thank you
👏
Same here. (I have ripped their mask off, however. Not the advised strategy, but I will fight through anyway!)
Thank you Richard.
How can they interact with ''you'' if they never truly got to know you. All they have is that avatar.
With a narcissist, as soon as you get a distressing emotional reaction, you automatically lose. Their tactic has triggered your trauma-based response and you are now out of your proper element. In other words, you've lost your cool and you're about to lose your gasket one way or another.
Don't lose your gasket. Keep your cool, friend. Keep your cool.
I agree, but don't beat yourself up if you fall for one of their games of DARVO. Flying monkeys who high five them behind your back, likely, are really no loss in what they think of you. Because you can't lose what you never really had!
So true!! When i lose my cool it's actually like I'm enabling them and immediately i see them satisfied cause they make me lose my cool and they feel so "special" that they have the power to control my feelings. It's a trap! Don't lose your cool!
@@AZDC99 exactly! I used to beat myself up if i lose my cool once but i know now that I'm human and i can't be perfect. I simply don't engage anymore with them
Does this include talking about how hot your friends are and how smart their ex is...???
@@LadyHawkeNJay definitely sounds like they're trying to make YOU feel inferior.
"There is NO sincere communication with a narcissist." Wow. THAT is it...period.
"Weaponised sulking!" Haha! EXACTLY.
Malicious misinterpretation and obstructionism. Never a resolution always avoids a solution ... compelled to antagonise and evade. All comunication is weaponised to win.
Exactly
So very true!!!
Antagonize and evade. Precision and to the point.
Well said, efficient too.
Yes!
I learned I should abandon sincere communication with a narcissist.
Makes perfect sense.
Going NO CONTACT is the ideal.
True they don't appear "the same" across contexts because they wear different masks with different people and in different situations.
The thing is we all do a degree - we all relax a little bit at hiome compared to work or socail function but not to the degree a narcissist does where its so extreme - suchg a change, almost a 360.
As a soldier it never occurred to me the biggest threat to my health & well being was from the person I invested 100% trust in.
I never saw it coming.
Betrayal, by definition, NEVER and CANNOT come from our enemies....
Thank you for this. Years ago while bingeing on yours and Sam Vaknin's videos, I heard Sam say "the covert narcissist does not communicate for the purpose of understanding. He communicates for one of only two reasons: to get attention, or to get a reaction." It was that comment which explained every bit of confusion during my 32 years with my ex husband. He never communicated for any other reason, nor could he handle others' feelings and it was maddening. Being sneaky in the way they word things means they get others to do something for them without asking (reaction). It's a truly sick game. If my ex put half as much focus on growing up as he puts on getting people to think he's great (lies), he'd have done something with his life. Sam's words and your videos changed my life. Thank you.
I actually thought I was a bad communicator due to being raised by coverts/dating coverts. A couple years out, I realize that wasn’t my problem. It was a set up of perpetually making me confused, misunderstood, and ethically wrong. Beyond that, they somehow make you feel bad/pity for them while elevating themselves to a position of “better than.”
Yes they do! How do they do that!?
Pity is one of my biggest red flags. Very few people *need* you to feel pity for them.
God it must be so horrific to be raised by these kinds of petty, manipulative, disingenuous abusers. I am so sorry for any precious little soul who has ever been left in the care of such empty, hateful kinds of people. I just want to give you all a hug and say "YOU always have been deserving of LOVE and your being is WHOLE and HEALTHY- it is THEM who are WRONG"
I developed a habit of repeating myself in different ways because I felt so misunderstood during my childhood due to this feigned ignorance.
@@sirkayda7205 Me too. And when I was judged a "motormouth," I felt bad and put out, judged, rejected. I craved attention. Crappy narc-programming!
That word salad carry on is a severe form of emotional and psychological torture.
Tammy E YEP!
Exhausting too!
"No no no no no no no no no no no, no diddly no, hell to the no, hell to the niz-o, no, no no no no that won't work" Love how you get worked up and passionate over making sure people understand what you mean.
This video is giving me severe anxiety, but in a proper way. I am eternally grateful for finally finding someone who can brilliantly articulate the craziness. Thanks for this!!
I thought the same thing..lol..I have a LONG history with a lot of narcs..
NOW..
I am trying to decide if my "new" crazy should be kept as a practice workbook, lol,
I have him on "dump to voicemail" and don't have voicemail...
He blew it on his first few attempts when I couldn't decide if he was a genuine nice person or a crazy...
He went crazy briefly...chewing me out for having no voicemail..
Hahahaha...
So when I saw he called next..I called and left a message on HIS voicemail.."Yeah I saw you called what do you need now?"
He waited for weeks and called me to do ME a favor..hahahaha his verbal nervousness was SO evident...I told him I did not need what he was offering...and he admitted he wanted a favor from someone else and wanted to tell the guy it was for me..hahahaha
I might pace myself and practice on him...because I WAS ALMOST FOOLED...HE REALLY SEEMED LIKE A NICE PERSON
Knowing helps prevent future narcissists in your life.
The ptsd you get from hearing it explained is real, though, omg.
I started watching old music videos I used to enjoy as a kid and playing old video games that I played back then. Getting back to the person you used to be is such a great way to heal. It's like experiencing life again before you knew who the narcissist was. Finding out about the narcissist is like coming to a fork in the road of your life and going down the wrong road, then you realize you can turn your vehicle around, go back to the fork and take the other path to some place better, but you'll always have the knowledge of what exists on that bad path with the narcissist.
Wow that’s such a great message .. thank you!
Agree 💯. I’ve been getting old vinyl and CDs out and it’s surprising how uplifted you feel. Although there are times that I can hear him trying to tease me varied tastes in my music. Such a beautiful analogy sir. Hat off to you.
I started paint again like before narcissist, and started learn new things like knit. It´s helping to heal for me. And like you said - start to remember who i am, who i was before narcissist. Live again.
Great advice ! It'll help with those moments of weakness during fake mini hoover or silent treatments.
In other words , you can't reason with someone who doesn't understand reasoning 😕
I think they understand, but deliberately avoid as they don't want resolution.
Doesn't matter what you say or do,it's always you and your fault if they need it to be you and your fault. Never ending story.
Very good explanation of extremely unpleasant situations. 🙏🦋
Thats true Never Ending Story of Madness
Hi love. Been trying to say hi but it's been awkward. Hope you're ok in this terrible time 💕
@@nolitedesbastardescarborun51 Hi! 😁 I'm doing okay. How are you doing? 💗🦋
@@ewashortnotsofastandfuriou6947 actually im fine. Locked indoors. High risk. And living the dream. Not. But I'm ok. Wish we could all meet again xx
@@nolitedesbastardescarborun51 One day, we definitely will 🙏🦋💗
and when the "shutters " come down they get the satisfaction of watching you become frustrated with the inability to communicate or have closure in the situation..
Absolutely! No closure. They just go out in a " Poof"oh so magically, as if you are still best friends.
so infuriating
I am going through the process of ending a friendship with one. Since I discovered her true self, she always uses word salad so I just do it back as it doesnt matter anymore, I'll never see her again.
How you described ambient abuse and meta-communication made my heart sink into my stomach. I would go through MONTHS of this. I would ask for communication but she would just say I’m suffocating her and that I’m being paranoid and crazy and insecure. After maybe 6 months of this, she would finally admit what was going on and it would be this huge fight. I don’t mean healthy fighting. It would be for DAYS! And the word salad thing, fuck! 😂 She would never answer directly. An hour later I’m confused and apologizing. Dude. Thank you!! And I thought I was the narcissist. 😫
Oh! And she would say I’m interrogating her. 😂 I’m sorry but I feel so much relief now because I’ve been beating myself up so much
The covert narcissist will ply you for personal information and then feed your personal information back to you as a subtle insult in front of others, which can be hard for you to prove. I had a client who I had to share some personal info with and then she was doing a video interview and she subtly insulted me with my own personal info in her video interview, I couldn’t believe it, but if I reacted I would look crazy.
Ardent this describes my father also and his flying monkeys as well .
It's even worse when they eavesdrop on you to get your personal information and then troll you and use that information against you.
Steve Owner my grand mother does that, only she twists what she hears or sees to look and sound evil because she’s a religious zealot. Then spreads it over the telephone.
Dakoder II 100% correct! They act like they are a messenger for god’s wrath and know exactly what god wants people to do.
Dakoder II yup, that’s correct 👍🏽👍🏽
Tense dialogue, such as an interrogation, drains our energy faster, and we all have a reservoir and hit the threshold or breaking point when it runs empty. In an interrogation, the confession comes to stop the increasingly more uncomfortable/painful process of being probed and drained of energy when you're already at your weakest point, which feels incredibly mentally and physically taxing.
it's similar as to how malicious gossip or terrible insults can lead to suicide in someone who is depressed, but a healthy person with a healthy reservoir of energy built up, who's headstrong and has healthy boundaries, wouldn't experience nearly the same kind of pain or self-destruction that malicious gossip could cause someone who's already in a weakened state. There is a measurable energy basis to this. No doubt.
I have found that Cerebral Narcs need to compete with you even when you are not competing with them but just sharing information. When they find out about narcissism and realise that they can relate to it, they use this knowledge and transfer what they have discovered onto their target and use psychological terms, such as, 'gaslighting', when in fact they are only identifying themselves.
Definitely, I was always confused why mine was competitive with me. He would always say my kids thought I was crazy. "Everyone thinks your crazy". I never understood why the competition.
@@reneemoncrief559 yep. Takes all your authority of mother away behind your back. Kids are equal with dad, mom is "just different. Doesn't really care ...
The competition is so weird. I could not understand it all. Now I get it. What a relief to have that explained.
I feel same about the covert narcissist with I had the terrible experience. I first thought to confront him and tell him what he was doing and he is a covert narcissist. Then it occurred to me that he is a crazy man he could use that information to abuse other innocent women. They are very terrible people.
Cerebral narc wow. Another pice of the puzzle.
Sincere communication vs signaling...
👊😎
Very good video...
I have been considering my ex "fiance" a covert narcissist because out in public he's a complete gentleman and hard working man who everyone loves, but at home with me he was a lying, cheating, mean you know what. No one would ever believe my side. In the beginning he was so sweet and loving, we moved in together and I later found out he was sleeping with prostitutes, people at our job, and even started a smear campaign behind my back and had me lose my job while still acting fine with me at home like he had nothing to do with it and I didnt have a clue!! He always started fights with me and said the meanest things ever been told to me in my life, but God forbid I ever said the slightest thing back to him it would be the end of the world. I never heard of a narcissist in my life until dating him and people would warn me when I would explain things going on because I would be so upset and sad. This man brought me to my knees. Does he sound like a narcissist or just a mean guy?
Probably even a malignant one.The worst version.
The change between what he is like out and behind closed doors is the tell. Why? Because its all about control.
Sounds like a narcissist. I’m so sorry you went through that. It’s so frustrating when they smear your name, and make you look like the bad guy because they appear so innocent and nice with coworkers and friends
My Wife has cheated on me hundreds of times. She has zero female friends. I gave up having sex with her out of disgust and she justifies her immoral cheating by telling men that I can't get it up so she has to sleep with other men...
More like a psychopath
In my case she made my entire life chaos - house looked like an explosion in a laundry factory, finances always in chaos, always losing things causing even more stress and changing jobs more often than some people change their underwear. There was always something to worry about - well for me to worry about, it was invariably her creating the chaos and me spending all my time picking up the pieces. It's like they can't exist without drama and chaos.
Dave Shuttleworth OMG... peace and quiet and control of responsibility is what I cherish the most after leaving the narc. And can totally relate to being the one left with the responsibility of irrational worries because your partner is insanely irresponsible. I would say it was like living inside of a circus except some of those worries were not only NOT funny but also life preserving too!
Sounds like borderline but 🤷♀️
All of this plus getting traffic tickets. Forgetting to lock car, house etc. I feel it’s done on purpose to drain.
@@sarahmk2966 Agree totally, mine used to leave the house front door wide open, lose door keys, etc, you name it she did it.
@@sarahmk2966
It is on purpose. The proof that its intentional is that theyre perfectly sensible when it suits them.
And theres really no stopping them. Unless you get mean or walk.
Very interesting and funny. My ex literally blames everybody but himself for his misfortunes in life. He also does that trick where he calls me a "dickhead" and then when I ask him not to talk to me that way he says "no no no, you're the aggressor, you called me a dickhead" Wtf
Yes it's exhausting 🤯
And if you refuse to lose your temper you're accused of being a fake Snow White. Doesnt matter how you are or what you say it's already been decided who you are and what youre trying to say. Because it's not about what youre trying to say it's about what they perceive youre trying to say. So there is never sincere resolution in any conversation I guess. That's what I'm getting from this video. Thank you Richard.
@Transhumanist Cult Awareness Network this happened this morning. It left me reeling and wanting to just shut down and say yes to everything. I realise I could have said my shopping list and got the same result. The purpose was let's address how awful you are so we dont address something iv done. Simple. I think.
Its a catch 22.. They dont want you to win.. They never learned to play.. They just want your energy. If you detach yourelf (the battery) from the device, the device shuts down ;D
@@thenaturalpeoplesbureau thank you. Iv given him zero attention whatsoever today. Detached the battery. But then again he told me to. I'm not to talk to him but well talk later. Ergo I'm none the wiser. I'm really taken aback as this morning before I just agreed with everything I did say I dont understand all the catch 22s. They are everywhere. Spot on.
@@joshuafalade4754 that's thought provoking. Thank you. It's now sulking time and I'm being basically ignored. Over one question I was nervous to ask. We can go weeks of things seeming normal and lovely. I'm not special. I'm just different. As nothing makes a difference I'm doing nothing today. This will go on for days til I do something right and right now I dont know what that might be.
Nolite des bastardes Carorundorum, you are so right! It’s already been decided who you are and what your intentions are. I wish you all the best. Try to get out if you can. Peace.
This rings home on so many levels. I've made my peace with my ex (I thankfully grew the spine to leave his ass) being a narc, but it's still mind blowing how many of his traits are described in these videos about covert narcissism.
Once he turned a simple question into a discussion about semantics. Absolutely exhausting. He did this so often that I started to blame myself, thinking I must just be a horrible communicator. I went with it for a while, trying to explain what I meant, feeling like I was talking to a toddler, until I had enough of his bs. When I told him, that I felt like he was playing dumb and just arguing for the sake of being in the right, he got upset and didn't talk to me for the rest of the night.
This is The Best!!👌That should be watch by everybody who question any sign of manipulation or gasliting in relationship 👍
I am a couple of minutes into this video, and it echoes the interaction between everyone at present. People aren't interested in the facts or sincerity.
@Lenni H
Absolutely. They think what they *feel* is 100% factual. You could put scientific data in front of them and force them to look and listen and so many people would still deny those facts! It's incredible.
@@Jane.Doe. Exactly why we are here. To control our emotions by looking at them objectively and see the emotion for what it is.... a REACTION or RESPONSE to what the input was and the emotion is NOT the input. Brainwashed to ignore their own intelligence so they cannot see the truth.
Yeah, this is widespread.
OMG I have learned soooo much. This is my husband to the T. There have been so many times that I asked myself if I was crazy. I wish I saw this a long time ago.
Hi Richard and all.Ive got to disagree with the comment thing as I’ll be honest I’ve been obsessed reading comments and was aware of my strange way of dealing with such pain and trauma but I feel that being so alone and suicidal reading comments saved my life and kept me sane and I found it to be my kinda therapy and friend as I’ve not one single friend and was so scared of breaking. But yeah a year on lol I’m finally healing and feeling more normal than ever and I know that comments was my only friend and medication to heal.
We all handle things in Diff ways but I’ve a few mental health conditions and don’t trust in people but love people so to me comments was my way of hearing peoples options/hurt/rants lol and it helped me to heal, but it might not work for all as I’m awkward lol but yes ty for comments people and Richard and a few other life savers that I sank deep into listening and learning and helping my mind keep strong as when we don’t have our mind sane..well our own same/normal..then we have lost our will sanity to fight on. I hope I’m not judged here as I see what heals and works for one person may not be good for the next. Thanks guys and keep ya mind strong and love to all oh and forgive and mostly
Forgive and love yourself. Xx
I love that you spoke your truth. And I agree with you. The comments have been a blessing to me. They have helped open my eyes.
I agree and spoke up in the comments as well! Thank you!!
Their shame is different than my shame. I never considered that before. I had an overt narc, got out (thankfully without physical harm) and years later managed to find a covert. I was fooled by their remorse and talk about their therapy/support group work. Realizing the shame was only because they haven’t been able to achieve the power and position they “rightfully” deserve. Very eye opening! Thank you!
That is sad. I totally recognise my son who is graduating psychology using all those techniques with me. There is no communication but just word salads for hours on end, crazy making to break me. We are going through very difficult times but I am not feeling sympathy anymore for the bullying got too much. Sad. He is doing like his father and it is heartbreaking for me.
I've had the same with both my sons.
Curious ? Question, Richard if you happen to see this , are there any studies out with numbers showing increases in these behaviors in a certain age group?
Cheers
X
Please God, do not allow that demon to become a therapist.
@@trayseewritesstuffh8757 he is turning 23 and I am going through a divorce with his dad after 30 years. He is following the same footsteps and using all the psy jargon in a very sadistic way.
@DIANNE that is truly heartbreaking, when there is a behavioral pattern with our kids no matter the age it is s completely different level of emotions. It is devastating to a parent to have a disconnect with our children. I can't wrap my head around this personality type being psychologist, and raises the question...how many choose the career path of psychology to get their supply?
The one thing most of us should take from this video. The narcissistic need for control is both infantile and volatile towards those they choose to pull emotional supply from. They will protect their own selves at all costs even if it means the complete destruction of another individual. That means controlling and manipulating to stay on top of their totem pole relationships with others. I've found that treating them like a belligerent child to be very effective in putting them in their place and letting them realize in that moment that they need to go away and not return
Yeah, that's exactly who they are. This makes me shudder at the thought of.. how destructive can children be (when brought up in an unhealthy environment). Kindergarden is probably harder than I imagined or remember :)
@Jason Bradley Can you give an example of what 'treating them like a belligerent child' would/could look like? I could use some help with this myself, concerning my (adult) sister.
I pretend they don't exist, do not speak or greet them
@@wordivore yeah even i want to know what it means ..
Yes Jason, they seem more interested in protecting their relationships (at all costs) with other people over preserving what they have with you.
This really hit home for me. One of the best things I took away from this was the idea of the covert vs classic overt narcissist, and that they can flip depending circumstance - on whether or not they are in a position of power. This💡 really was an ah-ha moment for me!😳😁
I’m bullied so terribly and if it wasn’t for people like you making these videos I don’t know how I could even face this world anymore at all. It’s so hard being isolated from everyone and that’s especially true when I am around people in various numbers. It’s so painful and your work is making me feel like I can face reality and be alive… and I don’t have to mentally leave or physically isolate to escape the pain.
I haven't seen my son for 5 years and he rang and said "I suppose if I ask for money you will say no" "NO" He then starts to tell me I pushed him once and scratched him. He then asked if I want him to ring again. "No". Thank you for all your videos Richard as they have helped heal my broken heart. He has a good job and so does his wife. SMH.
my son is the same and he will be using an excuse like i forgot to make him lunch years ago or totally menial stuff like it was the end of the world.
@Transhumanist Cult Awareness Network abusive? Really? He claimed she did those things once or twice a a guilt tripping mechanism to get her to give up the cash.This is exactly what Richard is talking about ABUSE of LANGUAGE! If she was so bad he shouldn't be looking for her to get money from. She could have pushed him off of her because he was getting out of line. I guess you totally ignored the part where she said he and his wife both have money, these are the people NOT to be sorry for. Narcs are extreme drama kings and queens.
@@alethiamillner5603 Spot on!
I actually think this channel’s comments section is quite good. A lot of support and people trying to heal.
The narcissists I know speak “GIBBERISH”
That's their dialect.
Your 100% on the switching my ex husband made really good money owning his own business and was both overt and covert... Overt at work with his buddy’s and covert with me at home...🤷🏼♀️ Mine would ignore me days on end for no reason at all and I would be trying to figure out what I did... I had a best friend that was like my sister and husband broke up that relationship... Years later when I was trying to repair that relationship he freaked out and literally made up a story saying I told him that My friend and I would hook up ... 😳 I was so dumbfounded I looked at him and was like wtf I have never said that what are you talking about ... He would always tell me I said things that I never said and then call me a lair... Mine would also fight with me for hours and hours like into the middle of the night... Just going around in circles until I would say sorry even tho I didn’t do what he was saying because I was going insane... 5 years of that and then started figuring it out then stayed another 5 years cause I was so confused and broken... That fucker... 😹🤷🏼♀️
19:09 "Remember as a narcissist I never interact with you. I can't. I can only interact with the Avatar of you that I hold inside myself that I have absorbed because I don't have the ego boundaries to say this is me and that's you, everything is me. I'm still a toddler."
After the toddler / Avatar phase of metacommunication the narc morphs back into the passive-aggressive word salad, crazy-making , attack.
Being hyper conscientious you eventually accept the accusations of something you did or did not even do/ or say as being real, just to get the crazy making torturous confusion to stop.
After a lifetime of crazy making the vulnerable narcissist in my life had forced the fake reality down my throat squashing my authenticity.
familiar with all the terms. watched them play out in a husband of less than one year :)
I am an artist. I love your visuals. the bloated tick... wonderful.
made me smile even as I am disgusted with what I stepped into for a year.
your accent and its own ways of expressing is also nice to hear similar things described in a fresh and humorous way.
You hit it perfectly...their inner critic and self talk is incredible! When you become aware that they are dysregulated, the abuse ramps up..They are so fragile, that they can't believe they could have anything decent or good so they set out to kill it before it kills them..sabotage anything decent to match the pictures in their head of themselves.
Confirmation.
It’s as if you have walked the tunnels of my mind and read the graffiti left behind by the Cluster B orgies of feigned love, intimacy and connection. It began at birth and has continued a lifetime. The most recent years have been learning on how to get free, and stay free, rather than surviving within the chaos.
Confirmation. Eerily validating even in the word phrases that you use in the video to describe certain situations, attachments and reactions. It is well worth the effort, time and investment these productions. Thank you.
OMG - you describe it perfectly - I felt my blood pressure going up listening to you as I remembered some of the daily crazy making stuff that happened - and nobody got it - not my friends, family, etc - so glad you do!!! Thanks for these videos!
ALMOST nobody gets it. I am very careful to whom I bring this subject to. Then on the other hand I have a few rare friends who knew all about this before I ever had an inkling. In addition I can look back on people in my life that were strange. Now I know what was wrong with them.
Loved this. They do indeed break you down until you just give up and say sorry for something they caused and or did.
I have acess to all the best narcissists. Sitting alone in nature helps to know how at peace i am with myself. I still have inner work to do. I love your antics
This is taking my breath away, every description I'm saying omg, omg. I started putting up boundaries, pointing out his logical fallacies and then stopped reacting to the bait hoping he'd grow up, see what he was doing. A 15 year relationship where I feel I gave 80 to his 20%. He left me when I stopped participating in his nonsense
I'm watching this again. Its deep. Todays word salad I think.
Me: "Can we talk about this problem?"
Them: "I told you to bring issues to me immediately. Why did you take two days to address something? Iv spent days trying so hard to please you. You should have waited 3 weeks. So this current situation is entirely your fault. Not even your son can deal with you. Hes quite entitled to call you names. I'm shouting because I'm emotional. You think youre so good by not raising your voice. I can't stand when you're emotional anyway. I take it as personal criticism.". And on and on. Nothing I could say made any difference so I stopped. The response to my silence was "so? Is this issue finished with then? Good". And yes its crazy making.
:(.. I'm sorry. You did well in not engaging. Walk away, if you can.
@@crinishorela used the hand mnemonic. Remembered I can control my emotional state. That made it worse. I was wrong for being calm, reasonable. I was either faking it or trying to be a better person. I also timed it. 36 minutes. Afterwards I privately cried. And then this video came. It helped me to see that conversation had nothing to do with resolution. It was character assassination to detract from I wanted to ask a question that would put him in an uncomfy position. I never got resolution. He told me I'd got resolution. and I guess that answers everything.
@@nolitedesbastardescarborun51 Thank god for Richard, huh? :)
@@crinishorela omg yes. Second to none. Life saver.
Nolite des bastardes Carborundorum Sounds exactly like my husband...Angie
God you’re a genius. Thank you for letting me feel not crazy
I don’t know how its possible, but you just keep zeroing in, refining, and further clarifying this subject. Outstanding!
The avatar, oh my gosh, I was always being shunned for stepping outside the the little bubble version of me he had in his head. It was SO damaging, especially when you don't know there are people out there like this. He would never come out and tell me anything, he'd just ignore me when I was being myself. It was very stressful because I was constantly confused. It really messed me up.
Yes, the ignoring when you're being your authentic self is very disorienting
Going deep Richard! Thank you. The judging I was receiving from the ex vulnerable narcissist was so subtle, all I knew was I went from feeling so safe sharing all my thoughts, feelings and history to shutting down completely. As I did notice he went from sharing info to not sharing ANYTHiNG, then so did I. The energy put in by them on the negative, what a waste of time they could be putting into bettering themselves. It would take half the energy. Richard, you are really hitting on the missing pieces I have been wondering about with the vulnerable narcissist. I guess I am obsessed with every little motivation of the covert because it was so so confusing. If I don't understand, I feel I won't see it next time. My stomach is turning just listing to you. Flashbacks, ha, the worst pain. I was so naive, never in my wildest dreams did I know people like this existed. They are fucking awful!
I know. Never in my wildest dreams, not even in my nightmares. And this knowledge does give me nightmares. But it is far better to learn the reality.
Thank you.
Your videos are validating and you’re helping me to feel sane. You’re helping me feel more calm and confident that I’m a human being who does deserve to live here on earth just as much as everyone else does. 😢
Now I know why I was so anxiety ridden at my beauty shop. My 'hairdresser/running buddy' was 'signaling'. I could feel she was unhappy with me, but I could never figure out why. And yes I did feel super judged if I didn't go into the shop when she decided it was time. She mastered exuding wrongness with ever breath/look. I dreaded going to the beauty shop. The abuse went on at dinner. In our favorite restaurant she would close her eyes and not talk. In fact she 'signaled' she was unhappy with me on the way to the restaurant, by not talking. I am thankfully NO CONTACT now for 10 months. This is seriously illuminating. Thank you Richard.
Richard my mother is a covert narcissist. Thanks so much for bringing it home to me that there never is any meaningful communication. I kind of thought it but didn’t want to believe it. All golden advice on surviving with a narc parent.
tame turtle,You are beautiful 🌹,Hope you are not with a narcissist!
Makes me want to punch a wall, but that’s exactly what they want, for me to freak out. So I’ve just got to fume it out and not give them the goodies
True, they like to push buttons. You have to remain calm, keeping your emotions in check. Stand firm and walk away from them. I live next door to a covert narcissist, and I've had problems with him in the past, where I called the cops on him for harassment. After that incident, I no longer communicate with him and pretend he doesn't exist. He gives me deadly stares, but I look in an opposite direction. He wants to get a reaction, and I refuse to give in. They never give up in trying to intimidate and harass their victims
@Renegade Music I am an avid runner and it helps
This is so helpful, thank you. Especially the crazy pointless conversation. I spent years not understanding how the conversations turned out like they did and oh the exasperation of trying to explain myself over and over, in different ways. 4 years on I'm still having to have contact because of my daughter, who is now also struggling. I watch these videos from time to time to remind me of my own sanity and keep me grounded in knowing what I'm dealing. By the time I left this marriage I felt I was so broken down that if I did not get away I might not surface again.
I wish I wish, I wish I had found you, about 1 1/2 years ago. I started looking into all of this approximately 4 months ago. I just got rid of a so-called "covert narcissist" 3 weeks ago. Wow, I could have saved myself a lot of time and energy. I'm okay, she didn't, couldn't groom me, she did turn violent, verbally, emotionally, and physically. I stayed because I did love her, I felt sorry for her and I hoped if I was patient she'll heal, come around.
Holy. Hell. My entire life. No wonder I was so exhausted. Bless you. ❤
Rena Aubrey,You look gorgeous 🌹,Hope you are not with a narcissist!
I actually find a little bit of comfort knowing that, in essence, the covert narcissist understands the loser that they are (at least relative to an overt narcissist). 😬
Ha! My ex even said once he wanted a tattoo... I said what are you wanting, he said a backward L on my for head” can you believe this!
Cute? No so much, manipulative loser that knew he was a loser! In the mirror the L would be L!
Brings me some comfort as well. Well said ❤
Acting clueless is the cornerstone of my Ex's way of "communicating." Smart woman with a masters in marriage counseling (the inroy is not lost on me). And it worked for a long time. I actually felt needed because she made me feel smart. In reality, it was just a tactic to get me to do whatever it was she wanted. During the divorce she started using it on my kids, who were teenagers at the time. Even they wanted to know why their mom seemed "clueless" about things even they understood. It's part of her victim mentality. IT's all confusing and misleading and frustrating. It wasn't until I figured this out (with Richard's help) that i was able to step back and see it. Now, it makes me laugh just how silly it all is (but still very frustrating). A saying I was taught is "observe, don't absorb."
My mother always did that. I don't want to get political and no offense intended but I see that a lot from anti-Trump people.
"Observe, don't absorb." - Thank you for sharing! That's a good one!
Several months of torturous couples therapy with my VNarc saying they just couldn't remember things and contradicting or diverting questions with word salad and tearful/angry walkouts. Lots of projecting their behaviors on me and saying they couldn't trust me and were afraid of me. I began to live in dread all week of the next session and the ride home. I had to drive separately and then finally had to say I was done because there was no progress. I dread what's coming next, but it has to be done.
@@laraesque therapy with narc is a total waste of your time and energy. They thrive in such environments, leaving you completely drained and frustrated etc. There are useless therapists that narcs have ability to win over on the first visit. Don't dread the inevitable, after it's done and you reclaim your life back, you will look back thinking I should have been celebrating. I know it's difficult to see light at the end of tunnel especially if kids are invoved. But you'll be doing them a favour in the long run. They deserve to be living in a healthy comfortable environment. Even if it's only whilst with you they'll see/feel the difference, well ahead of there maturity. Chin up, your not alone, also don't fear what others will think or gossip, be yourself, your true friends will step forward and others you thought were friends will disappear.
@@jackleko2197 I completely agree. Thank you for your kind words of encouragement. 6+ months of couples counseling was a nightmare. What I dread now is the mediation for assets. I'm retired and could be on the street if I don't get a reasonable settlement. That's a vulnerability they will exploit. I have been through it before with a sociopath/psychopath. After a protracted 3-year divorce and order of protection for my kids where I actually "won" but was left on food stamps after paying lawyers, I am cautious. My kids are grown now, and reestablishing a relationship after the massively inappropriate smear campaign with the previous situation took time. There was no way to fight the town-wide smear campaign. That's fine. But my kids... The smear campaign is happening again, although not on the same scale, and I just deplore it.
I have to stop at 7.30 just to say OMG. Richard, you are a mile ahead of everybody else in understanding the reality of narcissistic behaviour. Your understanding of the true real life manifestations of their manipulative behaviour is beyond belief. As if you knew my husband first hand. I've made the mistake of explaining over and over again for YEARS thinking I just wasn't clear enough, thorough enough, etc.
You are right I had a covert narc ex best friend who tried to use passive aggressive behaviour towards me to gain control. She hated the fact I had my own life own thoughts and a boyfriend. She tried to launch a word salad attack against me from about 7 different angles in a txt rant and she tried to bait me into explaining myself on things that never happened or her twisted truths. I simply put back that if I had this many problems with and felt so victimised as you I have I wouldn’t want this someone to be a part of my life.
Because she was probably stunned that she couldn’t bait me she took 10 days to reply back with another 6-7 different angles about all the things she didn’t like about me. I didn’t even open the message but I could see most of it because she sent it on WhatsApp and it appeared on my screen.
She even went as far as to say I’m an evil person because I didn’t like her next door neighbours dog that I’d never met 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
You have to just walk away from people like this and block them.
As I didn’t respond to her message she waited another 15 or so days to say some childhood friend you are you didn’t wish me a happy birthday…like I’m the Villain and that she had done nothing wrong.
I then decided to remain silent and change my number best decision I ever made. These coverts will suck the life out of you if you let them
Excellent points all!
Rather than getting into an online fight with a detractor, you have to ignore them. Fighting back is pointless.
Richard...Bloody amazing. Point.
You have a firm grip on EXACTLY what goes on. How refreshing it is to know that not only am I not crazy, after all...but I am not alone in this crazy journey. I am 42 years married with exactly what you described. Thank you for validating my crazy life/relationship.
This is EXACTLY what I am dealing with. And it was why I could not see what it was because the personality seems to flip flop. It was only after I learned about both types, that I could see what the underlying structure was. First, the covert behavior, woe is me; then as our business grew and his fame did, I dealt with overt anger, sarcasm, and general happiness in being able to “lord it over” everyone. Now it is back the other way because events have humbled him a bit. -Thanks for the video. It confirmed my theory.
Sorry you need to deal with that loser.
Having broken up with my fragile narcissist just yesterday - after 8 long years of suffering - I've come across this video. And I've decided that I'll play it almost everyday from min 16:23 to min 16:32, as a strong reminder to the question "Have I made a mistake?" Hahaha Those 10 seconds are just brilliant, and so is the video!
Anyway, thank you so much for doing these videos - they are very helpful!
on the same walk with you
He probably won't listen. Mine wouldnt.
I have studied this for awhile and as much as I hate to say it...I just finished dating a Narc. The scary part is that she is textbook 100 percent. You could literally predict what she was going to say or do by the information learned. She even used the words that the sources used as examples. It’s almost as if she studied it herself to master it like a skill she wanted to learn. Anyways I have a hard time living in this world knowing that there are people that are wired like this and don’t even see themselves. It’s petty scary like I fell into a different dimension. I’m 39 and just now learning there is evil robots programmed almost identical. I found your channel by far the best. Thank you for doing these videos because no matter what I studied so far I still learn from your videos. Instead of just writing a list, you really explain with intellectual level. The question I have is, since it’s impossible to have a sincere conversation even a rational one, then how do these people ever learn anything if they are incapable of listening. I can seriously point out facts and show cause and effect, and it’s liking talking to a robot that is stuck in repeat. They are demons.
Lies binds (and blinds), truth frees.
Thank you Richard for every post you upload keeps me from breaking non- contact. I listen carefully to every word you say and I've learned so much about myself and the people I let into my life.
We bond with them, they don't bond with us...
I work so hard to stay positive in life. And it seems like nothing matters. The narcissist has ruined my life. I just want to go away.
Take whatever is left and move on. The problem is feeling responsible for them. That is another Richard video.
Gary Klein? I'm his biggest fan! You are quoting his video. I love that video. I have been rewatching it for years. I'm glad you experts talk to each other. I hope Gary is doing well. That video is iconic.
The point is there is no point, there is always one more level of game was a mantra I got from RG and used to disengage and go NC with the ex wife one year after we split. So many cyclic arguments. I'd cover all ponts and she would go back to the start, I 'd fall for it and in the rabbit hole I stayed, eventually becoming ill with CPTS. I forgot the mantra when I met the ex gf 3 years later because I had not healed. 3 years after that I finally got out in December and this time have healed with therapy that I fully embraced and put the work in unlike in 2019/20 when I used it as a magic pill and it simply came back. 8 months on I'm on me tod still and happiest I've been in almost 25 years. Awesome vid 🙏
You saved my life literally! I've been watching for months now and two days ago had to put my narc in jail to get out. Things got violent with weapons. You've opened my eyes and I've started my work to heal so this never happens again. Having 3 narcs in my life enuf is enuf! Thank goodness this one was only 8 months I believe I'll move past it quickly because after 2 nights of peace I already feel better. I never believed the crap he was saying to tear me down because I was listening to YOU instead. Thank you for all your wisdom and tools I will be using them every day :) This video gave me a good much needed laugh.
I wonder how many marriages could be described like this. The worst thing the target can do to the narc is say ,"Are you angry at me or at the situation?".
- ad hominem
Awesome.
Iv asked that question. I didnt get an answer but its always a case of being told who I am and what I think or feel or what iv done. It's not about the situation.
In my experience he was happy if he could parade me in public and berate me in the middle of the night for hours. Calm requests for a list of my failings when he was not in a drunken rage were ignored. There was no fun in that I guess. Towards the end he was shouting at and threatening our friends as well.
@@nolitedesbastardescarborun51 This might seem obvious these days but just in case you haven't heard of him, Jordan Peterson is good at inspriring groundness. Understatement.
I've watched so many videos on covert narcissists. This one though gave me the chills! This was an eye-opening video. Thank you Richard!
They will say & do something wrong to you & say ARE YOU MAD. Than when u explain they say....SEE HERE WE GO AGAIN!
It’s funny how I kick myself for taking 20 minutes to remove myself from a crazy making conversation, after taking 20 years to recognize being in a crazy making relationship. Progress, not perfection!
Try 50 yrs on and off, I have never felt so stupid. I'd take so much then pull away because that little warning bell went off inside my head. But I the gas lighting made me feel I was over reacting and he'd reel me back in and I fell for his sad stories and on and on it goes.
@@lisb748 You just didn't knot--you're not stupid.
I’ve come here to confirm if my husband is a covert narcissist. He’s told me I’m crazy and “twist his words” I’m genuinely confused today if I am or he is. All I can see is there’s no deliberate game playing or deviousness behind my behaviour . Of o ever eventually explode I’m hurt at my final straw over something he’s done and after years of not feeling like he cares or understands my side .
The fact that you're even asking this question tells me that you need to take some time apart to figure out what's real and what's not.
I just wanted to say Thank You for this video. There is a strange feeling of awakening when you describe the fragile narcissist, and how it describes people in my family. I'm not sure what these things say about me yet, but I hope to learn. I hope this information will improve my life.
Gradually it will improve your life. It is improving my life.
#1 thing - A Disorder is "Permanent, Personal and Pervasive" (from about 8min on). Narcissists, especially fragile/vulnerable are able to moderate/modulate behaviours as a strategy to a) get what they want b) to calm/control the retriggered trauma in a situation.
Lesson for me - as a kind, caring, empathetic person, I felt the need to heal the deeply wounded child within her. Now, in order to heal myself, I need to learn to distance myself from that child, perhaps even to allow myself to hate her. The reason is that the Narcissist (especially the fragile/vulnerable ones) actively chooses to manipulate. They know well enough what they are doing. It is how they get their kicks - perversely! If love, caring and connection were only experienced (or defined) by their absence, or inconsistency, that pattern becomes the norm. (I just searched online....loads of stuff! Wow!)
The rest of the video was such a chilling parallel with my own experience - I could not communicate with her in any meaningful way, the gaslighting, word salad, the cognitive dissonance. My fear is this Covid/lockdown etc period will help them grow in power!
the story about the ex made me lmfao. when they start twitching and put the crazy eyes on lol. Quinn said it best in Jaws.. Like a dolls eyes. they don’t seem like they’re even living till they bite ya 😂
Married to one for 35 years!!! Took your videos to make sense of the crazy making. He started out a real mix. Transitioned into overt the more he gained control over me and the more I was people pleasing. In the past 4 years of study and self work, my boundary setting has turned him to be very covert, fragile, and vulnerable.
I was brought up in a home with absent father, 5 siblings and an over worked mother who worked full time to help pay bills, who, fortunately was loving! But taught us all how to pull our weight and we did all we could to help her, out of love. That doesn’t work with a narc.
He has never shed a tear. So now, co-isolating with him is a real challenge. ‘Poor me’ alternates with the anger and passive aggression. He drinks to sooth himself more now. I am still cooking for us ( doesn’t cook) and trying to disengage and stay in my part of the house. Oh! Covid cannot end soon enough so we can get our first court hearing and separate!
Why can’t my narcissistic family leave me alone? First come the fake concerning messages, next come the spiritual quotes, now the threats of appearing at my job. The never ending, exhausting cycle is so predictable now.
I just want them to forget I exist! Kind of how they treated me my entire childhood.
Yup. I'm there with my mom. The frustrating thing is... If she'd leave it alone for like, a month, I'd probably get back on touch. If she'd even lie convincingly. But she can't even do that much. She has to win and be right.
Absolut genau so ist mein Exfreund. Früher sehr erfolgreich, war CEO eines großen Konzerns, inzwischen in Rente, aber diese Vergangenheit füttert seinen grandiosen Narzisst. Im Privatleben ist eher immer gescheitert, 2 Ehefrauen weg, die Kinder beide mit psychischen Problemen ... ich fand ihn also auch als "lost puppy".
Omg! My ex-boyfriend was like this soooooo much with me! Contradiction from one sentence to the next, re-wording my statements as an argument against my statements, completely changing the subject into absolute nonsense! I would seethe for hours after these interactions, it was horrible!
This is by far the most suited person I've ever seen on line breaking down the ways of these demons... I really pray that one day they will just be with each other....
OMG the shaking rage "I'm fine" for hours... Like wtf??? And the hours of word salad rants which is the most "conversation" from them I had. I'd be sad but I'm all good here without any of it!! Thank you Richard. You are a rockstar 😉
Ginger Beach Studio,You are beautiful 🌹,Hope you are not with a narcissist!
Thank you for this video Richard and thank you for eye opening on so many things. It’s like you’re saying all this reading my mind and knowing my exact situation.
It’s exactly what it is -> puppy eyes “I feel so much shame, this shame is toxic for me, you wounded this little boy inside of me and I can’t trust you anymore. I won’t open more for you because you abused my trust…” which causes love more, understand more and endure more mental abuse than before… until you’re drained to the point you don’t want to wake up in the morning and almost can’t remember your name.
For a long time I lived in the terrible feeling that I was the cause of the problem.
So many videos of yours explained a lot to me. And mainly help me to stay strong and never consider getting back to this vicious cycle.
I got into a situation just like this the other day on FB. I was trying to voice my thoughts on how our country would benefit from universal healthcare. I made the mistake of making this comment on a friends page who I already knew holds some ridged far right beliefs. I also made the mistake of thinking that b/c this person was my "Friend" that we could have a civil debate about it. For the very 1st time in 5 years I suddenly realized how passive aggressive & covert her verbal aggression is. Her NOW obvious & deliberate attempts to make me look like a "ridiculous bleeding heart", so I would then have to defend my position, were very eye opening. I now realize she just kept going until I lost my shit so she could then say- See! Liberals can never debate rhe facts without getting all emotional!"
It was a HUGE lightbulb moment! I SAW the gaslighting & word salad happening and bowed out feeling very frustrated. After watching this I realize I need to go thru and do some pruning of my FB "Friends List".
Oh yes, they'll stab you with a pitchfork and say. "Oh that didn't hurt"!
Yeah... I've noticed this used to be more of a right trait to be verbally provocative... But it's contagious to both sides now, sadly. I feel like a lot on this forum...right or left fall victim to these types. They refuse to validate your views. You're always knocked down. And if not invalidating it... they one up your experience. It's irritating. I used to feel hurt... But now i realized i actually am made angry by it. I find it annoying. That allows me to realize I want to avoid a person like this instead of begging then to stop hurting me or begging to be heard. It helps! It has made me yell before... But after processing... I'm just now ready to politely change the subject and then find an exit plan. I still get hooked sometimes... But a LOT less! Progress, not perfection.
Memorizing phrases like "interesting" "that's one way to look at it!" when insulted... "I'm sorry you feel that way. I don't agree but of course you have the right to your opinion." it sabes you from begging for them to become decent. Then you regain your power and get a chance to breathe. Its like getting out of barbed wire. If you just rage out of it it'll hurt worse than untangling and maneuvering. They. is. tricky!
My older brother. Since as far back as I can remember. Pruning this person from your list may not be the end of the story. You may have reason to interact with her in the future, especially if you have friends in common. Always, always remember: no matter what she says or does, she is exactly what she showed you in the comments section. Regardless of what she says or does, or what your mutual friends do or say about her, she has not and will not change. It's very sad and very hard to keep in mind when things are good. It took me decades to realize the pattern of bullying, followed by almost extreme friendliness (with absolutely no acknowledgement of the bullying incident) to which I would capitulate with relief, followed again by bullying. The pattern never, ever changes because the narc has never, ever cared.
@@eurokay4755 My mother & youngest sister both played out this situation w/ me my whole life. I think it is why it took me so long to recognize it in my marriage & circle of friends. I was used to it, so I repeated it in almost ALL my relationships.
Ive gone NC with my mother & sister. Im also working towards ending my marriage.
This latest incident isnt the 1st time this has happened w/this "friend" but it will be the last. Our sons used to play a sport together but they are grown, and my son moved away. I have little to no interaction w/ her outside the rare ulumni game or running into eachother in town. I will be polite if I see her, but I no longer feel the need to waste my time or attention on someone who has always made it clear that she thinks she's better than me.
Im glad that Im at a point where I can identify the people that no longer deserve a seat at my table. I might be aliitle late to dinner, but at least I finally got here.
Thank you for your responce & advice.
@@youtubingbabs I have definately spent most of my life looking for validation. Ive also put up with alot of abusive behavior I shouldnt have, in order to prove myself "worthy" to people.
It has taken the better part of 2 years to get to a point where Ive decided I would rather be alone than made to feel "less than" by ghe people around me. I still have work to do when it comes to letting go but I am determined to spend the 2nd half of my life making healthier connections & friendships.
Thank you. Covert. This makes sense. Passive aggressive behaviour. Very sneaky. Narcissistic supply... Interesting. He drank my milkshake, bloats... Attention. Thirsty demon... Thats what he became. He feels shame and humiliation but he can not be compassionate. He bullies himself. Super ego. So true. This makes so much sense. Fragile. Total crazy making. This is bang on. Always bringing me down. He could never interact with me intimately. He was always angry. Judged. Abandonment. Never happy. Accusing me and picking away. Never communicating. Always changed the topic. It is exhausting.
Top form, dense information! Lot’s of names for nail polishes in here!
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Agree, I'll have one 'hell to the no" nail polish please!
I just got to say-the people in the comments are EDUCATED!!! Each person has deeply insightful ways to see the narcissist.
Ann Born,You got a lovely smile 😊
Spot on as always brotha! 😁🤘💪
“A series of Interlocking, cascading, emotional flashback based predatory responses to perceived or real threat” 💜💜💜🎶🎶🎶 absolutely beautifully described 222
You just accurately described my father. Living with him felt like I'm living with a wife, but worse, 'cause you're young and your father have power over you [physical abuse included, to the point I was limping as a child, and blood coming out of my mouth as a teen, etc]. I still have nightmares with him from time to time, and him commenting stuff I do in my head. I know it's an introject tho, and I try to not pay much attention.
And yeah, he totally acts like I'm the bad son and he's just a victim, always trying to do best for me, and nonsense like that. Video describes this stuff accurately.
NAMA STE Yup 👍🏽 I can definitely relate.. Shame, the only justice I received was cutting him off at the knees, then the ankles. 😂😂😂