From the Depths: Weapon Tier List!
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- Опубликовано: 2 июн 2021
- Ze best weapon is ze one zat makes you feel ze best, no?
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Other music used:
Quincas Moreira - Dodo Bird
Rick Steel - Feel Nice
The Mini Vandals - Kuku
The Mini Vandals - Ngoni
The Mini Vandals - Run Little Chicken
Topher Mohr and Alex Elena - Mr Pink
TrackTribe - Mission Dub
From the Depths on Steam: store.steampowered.com/app/26...
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FTD should be promoted for more than just its gameplay.
For people who dont have/dont know how to use ultra-expensive CAD software, FTD is actually a really good program for designing parts for 3d printers - unlike the other popular '3d printing game', minecraft, FTD has a full range of slopes and transitions to de-blockify your designs. As an example, yesterday I designed a fully functioning trebuchet using FTD in under half an hour - using something like freecad, it would probably take longer than that to design one support arm. Its downside obviously is FTD has no inbuilt scale for 3D designs, but you can get around that by putting a loose 4m beam somewhere on your model, and scaling to that beam in your slicing software.
there's also a mod that adds even more slopeage
That is... a really cool concept
How do you do that tho
@@Goldmaykr Build something, go to 'v' menu, click create stl file, open stl file in your slicer, slice it, then print.
You really should just use blender for stuff like that.
One thing I would add about lasers, you can easily keep all the squishy bits hidden from the enemy with only the optics exposed.
Ah, blast, you're right, I could've emphasized that more. XD
@@BorderWise12 I know it’s very late but also worth mentioning that you can distribute laser cavities and storage around the ship and have them combine in several different locations in the ship
You can easily build lasers that can cut through an entire ship like the strong hold in less than a quarter of a second and if you just put enough barrels on it they can easily shoot underwater
the thing about cram cannons is that...
they use to be EVEN slower.
Yup yup. They used to be REALLY bad. And I still loved them! XD
I picked this game back up from the steam librabry grave that is my "not favourites" list... Good to know that some things have imroved (even slightly)
@@BorderWise12 when from the depth first came out, crams could have a rof of bŕrrrrrrrrrrrrt at max gauge. The times.
They also used to be faster, and more accurate
@@trazyntheinfinite9895 Those were custom cannons. They got replaced by CRAM cannons as a nerf. Remember when the HMS Ragnarok just absolutely melted everything, then custom cannons got changed to cram cannons. The Ragnarok was so bad after that; it could barely drop a ship.
I just use Kinetic Railguns because they aren't volatile, the ammo is cheap, and if you have enough AP on them then they have basically no counter.
Except fro armor angling which can reduce their kinetic damage but that can be made irrelevant by the longer shells since some setups at 8m can deal up yo 80k kinetic damage
Well, wedges are going to riun your day
Try to use a mix of Hollow point and Kinetic
Until someone starts evading your shots, that is.
@@jurajsintaj6644 I'll do that
@@victorfrankenstein8005 Gotcha, I also heard to use Hollow Point and Frag. So 8m long hollow point kinetic railguns is my new deal.
My personal best - rockets. Countered? Just use more rockets. They are compact, that allow you to stack them in almost idiotic amount. They are versatile, that allow you modify your crafts easily. For example, i had problems with LH aircrafts. Solution? Ugly and slow ship, looked like a brick, thats launched near 500 very fast small rockets. Onyx watch? Ugly and slow ship, that lauched 16 enormous torpedoes. SS? Ugly and slow ship that launch variety of rockets.
Ugly and slow ship with rockets - play FTD even if you are lazy and/or stupid.
This is kinda a lazy description of things... yes, adding more will let you kill things... but can you kill them for less materials than they cost to build? That's what you need to do before you can claim that it's the best option.
@@IainDoherty51yeH u can
Remember when nukes used to be 90 material? Those were the days.
If I remember correctly lasers are very efficient for mats/damage dealt but very inneficient for damage/volume but they scale really well, I think thats a good balance for them
i personally use railgun with ap frag or ap he to maximise the damage, reduce the volatility ,hit fast target and underwater target. And for flying unit just go pac 4000 emp per shot perfect for fireflies so everything small got one shot. that's my S-tier weapon
Crams are great against a few things, but they lack the versatility of other weapons and their are just so few reasons to have a dedicated cram craft
Always Great content border wise!! You and lathland are top 5 of my favorite RUclipsrs and I'm just glad you make this content for us and have fun doing it. You guys are the only reason why I baught this game and started tinkering during the lockdown and I just want to thank you for waking up my creative side (mostly teaching me how to even play ftd, still learning) Thank you border wise for making the past two years with the coronavirus entertaining and fun!
Hello sir
@@Loooom555 hello :)
I personally think allot of the simple weapons need a buff. When even the biggest quad bofors can't kill a microfighter outright in 2 volleys its kinda useless to me.
bruhh you’ve gotta be kidding right
“simple weapon cant 2 shot a small craft, useless to me”
@@carlwheezerofsouls3273 Simple weapons have a hard time taking down light aircraft. OW bombers and rocket fighters have multiple passes over 40mms before taking enough damage to lose control (not necessarily be destroyed). The scale and damage of weapons is just bad. A 230ish mm APS gun is equivalent in "realistic" damage to a 127ish mm naval gun irl. Absolute minimum to shoot at some cruisers. This scale means that those decently sized 40mm turrets are nothing more than machine guns that *might* take something down if it flies within spitting range. I expect them to scratch the paint on ships sure, maybe snipe some bits and pieces on the deck. But a light fighter can just absorb them no problem. Buff them, probably by just increasing the bullet size, if the scale of the game itself isn't reduced (2000mm CRAM cannons are a bit hmmmm.) I still however love the game, and try to pick up the slack with the workshop mods available for simple weapons.
I'm just waiting for the laser nuts to start going on about how lasers are the best and should be in S tier.
Lasers are the best... in a very small range of scenarios that generally involve hitting dodgy or extremely fast craft. Outside of that they're average at best, and even in those scenarios they need to compete with PACs.
i'd say after 200k mats they outclass everything. did a meta test before the last batch of changes and they used to utterly outclass everything of similar cost, it was 2:1 to 5:1 damage and kill time. a perfectly optimized APS only dropped it to 1.5:1. now they're pretty balanced.
they're absolute idiots, we all know steam engine drills are the best weapons
@@apttewly You don't beat 150k DPS at 100AP.
Honestly? I have a 200K ship with two 1Q laser turrets, and it can literally defeat any type of enemy craft at its price. It’s not that big ofc so a single one will be defeated by large CRAM shells and stuff, but in a group they will annihilate pretty much anything.
the thing i like with pacs is that they are very simple to build and set up. and they do LOTS of damage that scales well with size
You can mitigate the CRAM cannon speed problem by making them the main armament of dive bombers.
....only works against ships, though.
Do they still inherit speed from the parent vehicle? I can't remember if they patched that out.
@@BorderWise12 Yep, some people have made 2km/s crams. Very entertaining, unlikely to hit because of phasing though.
Make script / bread to calculate and shoot so that they appear in the target
problem with that is fitting a decent cram into a dive bomber
for some reason my brain didnt clock onto the word "advanced" in acs cos I decided to make it the first weapon system I learned. Started my first campaign today and it's definitely doing me well but it was a slight pain. Still not delved into railguns yet tho
I also made megapac, it's a 25 PACs in a row, has to be mounted on a monster ship but it can peel all of the armour off even big ships
I think there should be a shield type that defends specifically against PACs, like that which does against the lasers. It would allow some hard defence while still making them balanced and more similar to lasers (smoke, shields), CRAM (speed, LAMS), APS (ERA, air gaps etc.) and missiles (CIWS, LAMS) for late-game ships.
PACs are balanced by their price, if you give them a hard counter they are just more expensive, worse lasers, so you might as well get rid of them.
its kind of getting rid of the whole point of pacs tho they do really really bad damage compared to other weapons but they have no active counter, what does need a better counter imo is railguns bc they don't have counters and do a butt tone of damage
Why are people only now replying to a 6 month old comment?
I have a nice sub that uses a spine mounted APS as it's only weapon. Did a lot of damage mid campaign
S-Tier be like: Actually hitting 500 mm Railgun Mortars
If you're firing high angle shots there's not much point in a railgun...
@@aynonymos I mean, if you're really going for maximum per shot damage, any gunpowder is a shell element not contributing to damage. Low draw high gauge chemical railgun can work... but perhaps not fired as an unguided mortar.
@@aynonymos There is actually. LAMS exist. You can have 500mm with 2400RPM bursts to counter that. And since you only need like fifty raildraw per shell with a downtime of half a minute or so, they don't even have to be expensive.
@@Justfalor or i build a tiny gun that is really good, and just lob missiles for the rest of all issues.
@@trazyntheinfinite9895 yes, but you forget about one thing: how terrified the enemy mainframe must be when they get hit by a madmans weapon. That adds 9001 points of coolness to aps railgun mortars.
I recently discovered that PACs are significantly more effective if you stagger fire rather than go for those big alpha strikes. It spreads out the power load as well.
Also, people tend to have this "all or nothing" mentality with PACs. They'll put a small 3x3 tetris APS on their craft for a specialty purpose, no problem, but ask them to build a PAC and they tend to gravitate toward kilometer-long tubes and numerous stacked emitters.
Actually, wasn't it you who demonstrated tiny little 2-meter popup PAC AA? The adorable ones that looked like those pop-up badguys in Mega Man games? XD I'm surprised you put them so low. Though if you're trying to do one weapon system per tier so no tiers are empty, I get it. I'd just probably swap them with lasers, which I assume are going to be B-tier, with APS and Missiles in A and S in either order.
Also, I know most people tend to just smack Overdrive to 2 and done... but I find they work best in about a 1.2 to 1.5 range. Their power use is more appropriate to the size of vessel they inhabit in that overdrive range, and the damage is still very respectable.
Boderwise it took me over 500 hours to understand ammo selection on aps
For simple weapons the 60mm and 30mm autocannons are actually pretty cheap for what they can do to lightly armored blocks like wood. Also workable as a cheap CIWS. Put a few on a turret and it's not terrible. Honestly, there might be a role for sticking ship cannons on a turret as well, despite being very cursed.
The 30mm CIWS worked much better before the update that gave CRAMs 20 armor on their shells. Nowadays it is not worthwhile in my opinion.
Mass Drivers and Rift Cannons are the only SSS Tier
I made a laser the length of the default dreadnaught, it cooks just about everything
For particle canon its easy to build hard to learn, optimizing it will give you a headache but once you master it , its one of the weapon that can do the press 1 for delete. And the only counter to this is range and speed hoping it will miss. In terms of fire power mass driver canon are the most devestating and the only counter is that if it miss or you survive the first shot and destroy it before it can fire again. Mass drivers are Advance canon railgun that send objects really fast using the graviton mechanic, usual objects are pack with nukes. It cant be counter the speed is so fast the AI barely detect it. Well you can counter it by using drones as sacrificial shield
There are mass drrivers in work that shoot like gattling guns
@@steffenmuhlen9346 Dont know how far is the development of mass driver, but I did saw some in a way of a gatling gun but the problem I saw is that you manually control it and AI have a hard time using it. It will be awesome to see a hand free version
There is a script zhat controles a mass driver that shoots an projectile at so fast speeds it hits in the enemy look at sams stash for explonation
@@steffenmuhlen9346 thats the thing mate you need to script the AI for the fast one, the big ones you just need a work flow of ACB( automated control block) and normal build in AI to control it. Even in my trial error I still fail to have a fast mass driver without scripting the AI, hoping in the future we can have a simple plug and play fast one until then its still on development.
Did u try a bread of my understanding it shoud work and habe some advanced probabilitys
Giggles in modded weapons- bet missiles are S tier because- MISSILES
A sub with massive amounts of missiles ... it's just a joy to see a large barrage of small missiles swarming the sky. Then of course there is the Joy of making massive missiles that one shot anything under the sun. I love to use the Thumper Head, explosive warhead, explosive warhead, explosive warhead, and a frag for the last warhead spot. Make a four pack of those large missiles and the world ends. I just love the booms =)
Do you use remote guidance on those? IDK how to make missile use the other heads and still have any decent guidance.
i learned how to make aps guns first but i cant seem to get a grip on how cram cannons work.
Good news! I have CRAM tutorials! 😃
@@BorderWise12 lets gooo!
Particle cannons are godly.
APS rail gun 4 life
Now put it against something coated in planar shields
I hate lazers cause they are overpowered. I feel like lazers should be weak but hit scan that way there better suited toward un armored targets
Hey Borderwise, i would love for you to try making what I call an Apocaliptic Advanced cannon. I saw one made that just carves up the Megaladon within 30 seconds
So the doom CRAM aps equivalent is Appocolypse Cannon? Hmm.. I think I like the ring of that
@@chunkblaster imagine a 500mm cannon lobbing 8m shells at 2400 rpm
What do you think about the 32m long medium torpedos I made
how do you slow down the rotation speed of aps barrels i’m tired of my aps guns spinning so fast it forms a multiversal black hole
Press Q on turret block and you can limit rotation speed of turret. If you wanna slow down just the barrels make the barrel longer or use heavy Barrels/armour. The more weight you put on the slower it’ll turn
I find the ac is the best too
I use 9 powder chatge 3 wathead parts
Shells get well over 1000m/s that way
(Hollow nose shells moving 1200 m/s are hilarious especially if its in a tapid fire cannon
Great list, too bad the crams are so much fun.
Also, I'm confused why everyone puts ammo customizers on their Advanced Cannon, since you can make the ammo in the input feeder of the autoloader anyway
Customizing the shells via the inputs was a recent addition. Back in the day you needed the customizer blocks. 😛
@@BorderWise12 Ah, I've started playing a month ago
Has there been any major changes since this video dropped?
Don’t care what anyone says my massive fucking laser ALWAYS gets the job done.
I love the sound of PAC's
Wait, I can’t find a single video on RUclips about the shard cannon
Well, I sure as cookies haven't made one... not much to say really, it says it all in the build menu description. 🤷♀️
2:25 Actually, the fastest speed a CRAM shell can fly at is the sum of its muzzle velocity and the vehicle's own velocity in the direction of firing. Fire a full speed CRAM from a 100m/s platform, and it'll fly right around 300m/s. Only bomb chute barrels do not make the shell inherit velocity.
4:40 You don't dodge CRAM by going fast, you dodge them by constantly accelerating. It *is* useful to be faster than the CRAM armed vessel, still, as if it gets to dictate a close range, you'll be hard pressed to dodge.
5:15 Altitude fuses beg to differ, they can make CRAM a very good anti-submarine weapon. As the cheapest way to deal massive amounts of HE damage (which also scales with depth), CRAM depth charges are a very good option vs any submarine that doesn't dive really deep. Against the latter, nothing is stopping you from designing anti-submarine CRAM submarines!
This message was brought to you by the CCCP (Committee for the Conservation of CRAM Potency).
1. I'm not sure if CRAM shells still inherit the velocity of their parent vehicle. That might've been patched out with the big CRAM update, as people were using it for exploits.
2. ... you can dodge CRAMs in any number of ways, including a 5 degree gentle turn to port. XD
3. I have never ever seen altitude-fuse CRAMs (or APS for that matter) used successfully on anything.
@@BorderWise12 CRAM shells do inherit vehicle velocity still.
Sweet! Dive bombers are still viable then, and it's a shame I suck at making them. Now if only they were good against anything other than surface targets... 😅
@@BorderWise12 Yeah, for anti-sub crams you’re better off moving over the sub and dropping one on its head. Using depth charge crams is also an option, but it doesn’t work very well.
@@Frostbyte00 Can confirm, unless the sub is simply holding position the slow down from water throws off any timed fuse and aiming in general.
Good video. I've discovered mh vehicles are somewhat effective against the DWG but weak against most other factions. Any reccomendations?
Build lots of practice craft, reverse-engineer anything that beats your practice craft, repeat until satisfaction is achieved. 👍
@@BorderWise12 Thank you. And, how do I add those sick paintjobs with stripes and stuff? I can't figure it out.
is there a way for the ai to shoot where the target will be, rather than where it is?
That's already what it does. You can change detection settings to change how it leads the target, but it can only predict movement in straight lines, which is why it misses a lot.
Have you considered doing a tier list about the Simple Weapons for funsies? :> They'd have to really be relative though compared to each other, as compared to all other weapons they'd be a deep F tier, haha. Would be nice to hear how someone do breakdowns though as they'd kinda nice to throw on to minimalist recon designs for campaign and stuff, though some of them feel a lot better than others for sure.
*el gasp*
That idea is AWESOME, thank you!
I really question your positioning of CRAMs. They regularly appear on tourney winning ship, tank and Airship designs, and have some of the highest alpha projectiles in the game.
Yes they fire slow shells, but that generally just means that you need to get close to the enemy in order to allow them to be accurate, and they're incredibly satisfying. Hardly the best all round weapon, but they are unmatched in efficiency or raw damage output so you can't call them F-Tier just because they've got hard counters... cause everything has something that counters it. Simple weapons are the F-Tier options, and that's for a reason since they're the intro weapons.
Amen about CRAM. Especially with regards to tournaments, CRAM are still one of your most reliable options as long as you don't just spray and pray from long range. Mortars work great on autodetect 1 (as in most tournaments), and they also allow cheaply frontloading a whole lot of damage into a battle by giving them insane amounts of compactors for a devastating first shot. As for simple weapons, I would partly disagree depending on which tournament or fight we are talking about. A short range burst from a revolving blast cannon is still something no low volume unit in the game is able to survive unharmed, and they're extremely convenient to stick onto fast flyers.
I didn't say CRAMs were entirely bad, neither did I dismiss their advantages outright. They're just 'least best' out of all weapons.
"Yes they fire slow shells, but that generally just means that you need to get close to the enemy in order to allow them to be accurate"
I have regularly seen entire CRAM volleys miss at near point-blank range, and not just from my vehicles either. You can be right up in a craft's face and still miss it repeatedly if it continually moves in a curve or constantly adjusts its altitude.
"They regularly appear on tourney winning ship, tank and Airship designs"
What else is on those ships, and what were the tourney rules? CRAM tends to only do well in tournaments with a favorable ruleset for them (e.g most of Menti's tournaments). If not, you barely see them because other weapons are more versatile and harder to counter.
"you can't call them F-Tier just because they've got hard counters"
They've got more hard counters than anything else in the game, so yes I can. Trying to play through Neter using only CRAMs is almost impossible even on easier difficulties, and even harder for Ashes and Glao.
"cause everything has something that counters it"
PAC begs to differ, and APS only has soft counters. A high RPM supercavitation railgun is not hard-countered by anything.
"Simple weapons are the F-Tier options"
They're far more versatile than CRAMs (the custom shell weapons especially) and nukes and rams can be absolutely devastating if played right. They're fine in E tier.
I friggin' love CRAMs, but they really do deserve their F tier spot, sadly. I've played with them enough to say that with confidence.
"CRAM are still one of your most reliable options"
Except against small craft... and fast craft... and erratic-moving craft... and craft with good anti-munition systems... and craft at long range... and craft that are underwater...
'Reliable' does not mean 'doesn't work against most things'. 😅
I've had CRAMs miss because the waves from a storm made the ships too erratic.
What about short range laser or pac melee?
Melee is less about the weapon and more about the vehicle.
Yes, I also wonder why short range laser wasn't mentioned. If you've got a craft that can close range quickly, it makes lasers unusually economical in their damage output per power and per system cost. Plus, the block itself is rather cheap so it can be spammed, unlike long range optics. And then there are the always forgotten laser combiners: laser cutters.
I think people forget about laser cutters for good reason. 😅
@@BorderWise12 yeah, using them requires that the enemy craft is inside our weapon, that makes armour complicated...
@@BorderWise12 yeah..... those things aren't really viable vs the ram spinners that existed before them.
I should try to make something using them. Maybe some kind if hollow hulled ship could use them well
How do you make your platform/builds indestructible? (In designer mode ofc)
Hit 'C' to bring up the AI menu and the god-mode button is on the far left.
@@BorderWise12 oh wow, thank you!
I spent about 10 hours designing a 30rpm 500mm advanced cannon, then slapped a missile system on the same boat in about 20 minutes, and the missile swarm does literally 10x the damage of the cannon regardless of range. Not convinced that advanced cannons are all that good...
I am awaiting the war in the comments...
Mass driver ???
Where do Rams and drills go? I personally go Drills F-, Rams A.
I'd stick drills below F, to be sure. I literally never seen anyone use them.
Rams are kinda hard to put on a tier, since they're melee range and you need to design the entire ship around them if you want them to work well.
@@BorderWise12 Rams can be hilarious on Subs. Throw them on stacked Pistons/Spin blocks and you pretty much have drills but without any power cost.
Someone forgot Melee weapons.
Also lasers work fine in water if its close to vertical. So Sub vs Spaceship works well in both directions. Sub vs aircraft can work well too. Its only when a shallow angle makes a laser spend hundreds of meters in water instead of tens of meters that it really sucks.
I guess I did forget about drills and steam drills... which says something about how terrible they are, I suppose. XD
And yeah, fair point on the lasers but the way they're generally used they do usually shoot into the water from an angle. I've yet to see an effective laser submarine that didn't mount the laser above water, and I've yet to see a laser do anything more than tickle a sub hiding on the ocean floor.
@@BorderWise12 tier f for forgotten. On lasers vs water it takes a long barrel which is also needed for long range from space lasers. Given the expense and vulnerability, aps is likely better outside of edge cases.
plasma cannons when?
Probably never, honestly. 😅
@@BorderWise12 oof there goes my dreams of yeeting super heated blobs of plasma at stuff
Lathland showed off some projectile mimics, maybe turn a massive CRAM shell into a plasma ball with mimics?
@@BorderWise12that aged well
I disagree about the position of cram cannons, they work wonders for me.
Where would you put them, what would be below them on the tier and why?
The problem is actually landing hits with them. 200m/s only hits at either point blank or slow/unmoving targets like the OW. And god forbid anything that travels in an arc or is accelerating or decelerating, though that last part applies to APS too.
@@BorderWise12 I would put them on one level with particle cannons, but a tierlist in general is slightly misleading, as it implies evenly scattered power steps, while in reality it always depends on situation and your ability of forcing favorable positioning, it also depends on your usage of these spesific weapon systems. Calling this a ranking, instead of a tier list would be more appropirate. If I understood everything correctly, your main reason for putting Cramcannons so low in the list was the lack of versatility, I agree with that, but I don´t think we should take that into consideration in the extend you did, From The Depths is about using different systems in synergy to maximise the effectivness of your construct, so considering the effectivness of a weapon in a way it is not good at, is not useful, cram cannons are bad against subs, so they wont be used that way, making this consideration redundant, that said, someone will definitly try that one, most likley me, but the point still stands, no sense, no consideration. There is still a point for versatility, it will be used more, but because Advanced Cannons can do almost everything, doesnt make them better at anything, Cram Cannons will out damage them against heavily armored targets at close range if you take price and support equipment into consideration, and I just dismantled my argument for a tier list, anyway if your ship makes 50m/s+, you can catch that Megalodon and bring Crams to their full effect and I am not biased for Crams, I am a Railgunner. Also why are you calling the Megalodon Meglodon ?
@@Frostbyte00 Use fast ships and fire at other ships, thats my tactic and its effective.
@@apolloaerospace7773 It works on ships because they’re slow in comparison to other craft. Or, in the case of subs, the water slowdown is the main defense mechanism