APS Tetris #2: Long Loaders, Railguns, Ejectors and Multi-Gun Turrets! From the Depths Tutorial
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- Опубликовано: 31 июл 2024
- Please Pardon The Frequent Unfortunate Geometry.
Circles! • How to Build Circles -...
Ze Octuple Gun: • 400mm Octuple Turret! ...
Railgun Tutorial: • Railgun Tutorial - Fro...
Time Stamps:
0:00 - Ze Beginning
0:23 - Ze Disclaimer
1:01 - Horizontal vs. Vertical Loaders
2:41 - Loader-Stacking (And Where It Gets Whacky)
5:29 - Vertical Loaders & Ze Gauge Snake
7:17 - Turret Height vs. Width
9:04 - Turret Necks, Undergrowth and Overgrowth
16:12 - The 'Unfortunate Symbolism' Recoil Ring
17:06 - When To Use Connectors
18:37 - 8m Loader Examples
20:41 - Intermission: Filling in Gaps
22:50 - Railgun Tetris
27:35 - Showcase of Big Turret
29:15 - A Note on Recoil Absorbers
29:55 - A Note on Big Guns
32:07 - Ejectors Are Fantastic (Plus Tetris)
37:30 - Multi-Firing-Piece Turrets
38:17 - Hint: Design the Shells First
43:23 - Triple Guns (And Their Problems)
47:43 - Quad Guns (Double the Double Gun)
Channel Membership: / @borderwise12
BorderWise Twitch: / borderwise
BorderWise Facebook page: -f BorderWise12...
BorderWise Twitter: / borderwiseweta
BorderWise Patreon: / borderwise
Outro Music: : Different Heaven: OMG: • Different Heaven - OMG...
Other music used:
Quincas Moreira - Dodo Bird
The Mini Vandals - Kuku
The Mini Vandals - Run Little Chicken
TrackTribe - Mission Dub
Chris Haugen - Front_Porch_Blues
Frank_Rawel_-_Up_And_Down
Joey Pecoraro - Jazz Mango
Midnight North - Olde Salooner Blues
Quincas Moreira - Miles Beyond
The Mini Vandals - Like Lee
From the Depths on Steam: store.steampowered.com/app/26...
I had nothing to do with the development of this game. All rights to From the Depths belong to Brilliant Skies Limited. Please do not upload this video elsewhere without my permission.
#FromTheDepths #Tutorial 
Игры
You can actually have railgun with the 3x3 mantlet, you just attach a barrel piece to the firing piece, and then attach the mantlet to the end of said barrel piece. It may not look or sound like it works, but it does, I used this trick to make a frontsider.
... holy crap you're right, that NEVER would've occurred to me. Cheers! It's starting to look like a part three is needed. XD
oh my god you can put barrels before mantlets?
this changes everything
They fixed it, it doset work
@@BorderWise12 does this no longer work? I just tried it.
The 3x3 mantlet doesn’t have to be centered on the firing piece, by doing that you can still put railgun magnets on the gun although it looks really weird.
I haven't thought much of this whole "undergrowth overgrowth" concept before, this vastly helps my APS designs, thanks Borderwise!
You're welcome! :)
Don't forget about growth.
The bug where you can put the mantlet further down the barrel has been patched, but I discovered from someone else that you can actually offset mantlets, and they will still attach. So, you could shift the elevation mantlet up 1m so the bottom attaches to the gun, and attach 3 rails. You could also attach only the corner of a 3m omni mantlet to have 2 rails attached, though it’d be a bit jank.
"anything beyond this starts to get a teeny weeny bit silly"
Now I've got to make some kind of dakka ship with a turret that has like 10 miniguns.
The megalodon will not defeat me, it's shells will be deleted before they can hit.
Your FPS will be deleted more like
@@verdiss7487 The ship can't get killed if it crashes your computer every time it gets shot at.
Another minor point: having a mixture of numbers of clips per loader (say, some with 2 clips and some with 1, or any other combination) does *weird* things. Not bad, necessarily, but counterintuitive. You get "bursty" fire - so you'll have periods of much higher fire rates (when the various clip-number cycles align) and periods of much lower fire rate (when they're all on their gaps at once). This can be a thing to aim for deliberately (the burst periods can help to cut through annoying LAMS systems), but can also be annoying and confusing.
This can also be an advantage of having multiple firing pieces: you get a slightly lower overall fire rate but (assuming you get the fire rates to match exactly or force it via syncing) you get more projectile HP per volley, and thus better performance against LAMS.
For rail-hybrid guns, I like using a vertical 4-clip loader tetris. You start with one four-clip loader right in the center of the turret (though you can remove that afterwards if you want two or four firing pieces). Then, in an offset way, you slot in four more 4-clip loaders around it, in rotational symmetry. This fills out a 7x7 turret with 12 tiles of gap around the outside that you can use for rail chargers and recoil absorbers. You can go further then - add one more set of loaders, and you have 9 loaders with 24 tiles of gaps in a 9x9 turret, 13 loaders with 32 tiles of gaps in an 11x11 turret, 21 loaders with 32 tiles of gaps in a 13x13 turret and so on.
It may be useful to use undergrowth to fill the gaps with autoloaders if you need more.
@@atlas4733 If you mean filling the gaps with autoloaders of a lower clip count, you don't actually want to do that. Those autoloaders will have a different reload time from your 4clip loaders, and as a result will not be synchronised for them. This means that your rate of fire will fluctuate, and you will need more cooling to achieve full loader RPM than you would with all loaders the same.
in yoda voice: "hurmm how much recoil does this thing have?" **fires the gun**
the bote with a 400mm gun slapped on it's hull: **goes into a different dimension**
The unde/overgrowth is how I built my APS when i was still playing FTD. The complexity of the game and the constant changes invalidating existing guides made me drop it, hopefully just until it is fully released.
tetris with APS is always a downhill spiral... that why i always have a pillow nearby for screaming
very helpful to get me going again and avoid some of the traps.
Personally, my method is middle growth. A single layer in between autoloaders, adding extra cooling in the turret cap as needed.
Seems useful for larger turrets using 2m ish autoloaders. Instead of needing an under and overgrowth.
"you're playing a sube based game and you're using the number three"
this perfectly fits what 99% of troubles I have in FtD
Glad to see a part 2. Keep up the good work!
The quad barrel design, You could probably replace the recoil absorption with stone and make the weapon controller completely EMP resistant instead.
That is if recoil isn't an issue on the craft you're using it on.
I must have missed an update because I don't remember a APS Shell defuser ever being added.
Kinda makes my APS turret designs obsolete because I place metal beams inside the tetris to prevent the entire turret from exploding.
Thanks for the vid!
I’ve been working on a meg killer and been fighting the aps guns
You're welcome! Supercav kinetics works a treat against the Meg, by the way. Tell the Aim-Point to aim below the waterline and you'll evade the LAMS entirely. 👍
railgun 203 mm/50 3rd Year Type No.2 in a Model E turret and a railgun 356 mm/45 41st Year Type in a twin turret ammo used Armor-Piercing (AP) Shell and High Explosive (HE) Shell and Semi-Armor-Piercing (SAP) Shell
Did a very long break from FTD, and missed some huge changes it seems...
This is much easier to build than last APS i did. And also results in a significantly better gun after i just optimised that thing for current system.
Kinda sad, there's not much space for mastering now...
But also kinda happy, now my guns can be worth a damn at last x) And smaller-than-10005000-blocks guns are not worthless too!
Also, another reason for multi-gun turrets: a decent way to overcome enemy defences when you can't afford or don't want dakka spam.
Fire in huge volleys via many synchronised guns, they won't have time to shoot down every single shell before impact.
Big big help for my upcoming zeppelins
This video is the good
Amazing
Regarding the unfortunate symbolism setup: It does not matter whether you have 2 autoloaders with 2 clips + 2 autoloaders without clips or you have 1 clip on each autoloader, the reload time is going to be the same.
Additionally, the "Unfortunate symbol" was actually rotated 45 degrees, so in fact the ones that he's sporting on these guns are actually safe, and a religious symbol.
"and the main reason behind having multiple firing pieces is cause it looks cool"
also the only problem i have with this is t u r r e t c a p
Triple guns do be a pain in the butt to equally distribute rpm
But they look cool as shit
Agreed, no matter how much better one gun is to a 2-etc barreled gun, the multi barreled boiz get style points
@@Ronin20181 i mean 3 loaded cannons AT ONCE firing slowly deals better burst damage than 1 cannon firing fast
Deffinatly see your style in this with most of the coolers being placed in the top cap of the gun. Less defensive but fires more shells down range
Ohoh, looks like Borderwise needs an aps tetris lesson of his own... No offence intended but i do see some common inefficiencies in the tetris of the guns. Nobody knows everything though, everyone can (and should) keep learning.
I love it when people say I'm doing something wrong... and then don't actually say what it is. SUPER HELPFUL.
In all seriousness though, what did you see that was wrong? 😃
@@BorderWise12 Sorry should have specified what it was.
Firstly in most guns you have a base of coolers. Its more efficiënt to have a base of imputs and a "roof" of coolers. This way you have space for one more loader (the space were the snake would have gone down) and if you use a dubbel layer of auto loader you dont have to add another base of coolers you can just build on the roof of the bottom layer.
Secondly you use 2 clip autoloaders all the time. There is a simple pattern that allows for infinite gapless 4 clip autoloader stacking. Its kind of hard to explain with words but i could send you a picture to show you (if i knew were to send it). Sidenote the same pattern with a small height adjustment also works for ejectors.
Lastly, you can use the omni mantlet for railguns. You can offset the omni mantlet so that rail charges can still fit past it. Imagine the omni mantlet is a 3x3 grid were normally the center point is were you would place it on the fireing piece but now you place the fireing piece on one of the four corners of the 3x3 grid. The mantlet still connects to the fireing piece and you would have 2 places for rail magnets to fit past the mantled. (The same trick can be done to have 3 lines of railmagnets on the 3m tall mantlet)
Hope this helps.
@@LH-gt6gz if you put the pics on steam as screenshots, you could link them to here. understandable if you dont want to link screen names though.
@@MrJay_White i thought you couldnt put links in comments but ill try, tnx
@@BorderWise12pictures for Aps Tetris Pattern
Basic 4 clip pattern
imgur.com/gallery/ZzlanAR
Proceed to cut out a circle
imgur.com/gallery/hZxVyA7
Looks like this
imgur.com/miAYTNk
Snake on top
imgur.com/gallery/qjxsEre
Replace 4 clip cluster with this if you want ejectors
imgur.com/gallery/9CvB5dL
good vid
i bet this video will come in handy when i finally get around to building a battleship
because i always want big guns on one but big APS seemed to complex for me so i just resorted to CRAMS
i believe its because of that i don't build battleships
Yo it’s been a year. Did you end up starting it?
@@atlas4733i haven't played FTD in so long actually.
So the answer is no.
One thing to note that I realised just yesterday. YOU CAN have just one intake on autoloader with clip and while it sayslow RPM according to the intake speed, it still fires as fast as autoloader RPM as long as that clip has ammo.
Not perfectly useful except for big clip setups where you can have the clip sustained fire for longer periods time or if space available is really in premium.
Wouldn't that be slower reloading?
@@locust6391 Yup, but onc loaded it fires as fast. Personaly idk why you would want to do this, but they UNload just as fast, just reload slower.
@@locust6391 Once the clips start running out. Yes.
swirl pattern sounds a lil bit better that swatztika pattern lmao
Like the Celtic recoil knot, lol
Nice tutorial
Thank you! :)
43:30 KGV, Dunkerque, Richelieu ;)
How do you decide the gauge/shell length/autoloaders length balance? Excuse me if I answer my own question, but wouldn’t it be: deciding your shell gauge, find out what kind of autoloaders you can fit and split them into smaller autoloaders if you want to drape firepower for fire rate, then cram in as many modules as you can? If someone has a better way please tell me. I just spent 2 mins repeating the same word to myself trying to get my mental rant on track in my bed at 1am.
What advantage do multiple barrels provide? If the cooling and loading is split between each barrel, and gauge increases don’t take much volume, how is say, a 18mm single-barrel different from a 6-barrel one? I’m kind of confused why all of his 250mm guns at the beginning of the video didn’t just use a single barrel…
Short answer: bonus cooling without needed expensive coolers, as gauge increasers are cheaper.
Ok, Borderwise. This be cool vid. This be really cool vid. But ya missed something.
One important, big big big HUGE thing you did not talk about is the fire rate loss of varying clip counts. This is something I did wrong for years before a kind gentleperson on the discord slapped me (platonically) for it, allow me to explain.
TLDR: if some of your autoloaders have x clips attached and others have y clips attached, if x and y are different it can easily cost you 5-15% fire rate because of game mechanics.
Every autoloader in an APS system has a cooldown, and therefore a provided fire rate. The autoloader fire rate in the UI is merely a summation of the fire rates of the individual autoloaders. Clips don't have a cooldown of their own, instead they reduce the cooldown of the autoloader they're attached to. So an autoloader with one clip attached will have half its base cooldown (and therefore double its base fire rate), with two clips cooldown is 1/3d of base (base cooldown is solely dependent on shell). So the whole ammo setup gets reduced to a number of loaders that are either primed or on loading.
When the gun starts firing, it looks at the available autoloaders and picks the shell from one, quasi-randomly. Then when the gun is cooled, it will pick from the next primed loader. If cooling and loading are perfectly balanced, and all autoloaders have the same cooldown, when the gun has gone through all loaders the first one is just loaded so the cycle starts anew.
But what if clip counts vary? Well, now we run into a problem where occasionally multiple autoloaders will come off cooldown simultaneously, or too close to each other for the gun to cool down. What this means in practical terms is that your autoloaders will spend some amount of time... waiting. Which means their fire rate is lowered, and with it, the fire rate of the entire system.
I've run some simulations and even a bit of mixing can give you a 5% fire rate reduction. It is definitely something to look out for when designing APS.
I wouldn't call a probable loss of 5% RPM a huge thing, but cheers! Good to know.
On the other hand, it does increase the burstiness (you get brief periods of higher fire rate then periods of lower fire rate), which can help if you're shooting at something with a particularly annoying LAMS, for example.
@@abcadef6171 This is also something you can try to counter by having multiple guns in the same turret, it's more difficult to destroy 4 shells arriving at the same time every 12 seconds than 1 shell every 3 seconds. Then again I mostly just use multiple gun turrets because it looks cool :P
was i making a mistake replacing excess cooling with rail chargers for the velocity assist?
im suddenly worried i have misinterpreted something i thought i had started to get a grasp of.
no youre right to do that. Extra cooling is useless, extra velocity is good. Borderwise is the one making mistakes this time.
Nah, you're fine. I'm just not in the habit of doing that.
52:40 ammo controller in center.
Bruh he makes this sound so much more complex I just stick cooling units on then autoloader shell around it
In terms of balancing, does the barrel cooldown time need to match the system's rate of fire? Intuitively, it should, isn't it? Having barrel cooldown time longer than the rof means the system must wait before it shoot again, wasting its rof.
Yup. Basically you want all the numbers - inputs, loading time, recoil absorption and cooling - to match as closely as possible.
how are your guns so accurate??? I keep trying XD and I am aware that multibarrle suffer a penalty, but when I try a 3 barrel they wiff. I cant make my super frigate without them lol (might be a recoil problem though?)
Few things to double-check:
1. Minimum accuracy set on the guns. The default is 0.5, which is not good enough usually.
2. Barrel length should be what the shell requires.
3. Should have enough recoil absorbers.
4. Detection: always have a lot of trackers.
Hope that helps! 😁👍
Do an adventure mode video series...
I’m making a small boat and I don’t know which is better for a 3x3x4 turret. A 105rpm 120 mm gun with belt fed loaders or a 2 meter loader at a similar gauge. And what shell to use for both of those guns.
Depends on what you want to shoot at. Experiment! See what you like. 😁
@@BorderWise12 well I haven’t gotten past the DWG yet but that gun does really good against them with all frag shells with a 35 degree cone. Maybe it’s just because I have 5 of those guns…
Is there a good ratio of autoloaders to clips that you should aim for?
Depends on what kind of canon you are building, look at your autoload limit, clip and ammo intake. More clip means more ammo, more auto loader means more bullet to spit, ammo intake is the speed of reload. Example if you want to spit waves of bullet you can do a belt fed with more clips but ones you run out of ammo, you have long reload time, if you want continuous firing with good RPM then balance out the 3 or you can do is more autoloader with enough intake with singular clip each loader. Hope this help
i have a 11x11 500mm with a 2.3 reload 2x8m loader array 24k dmg
Ok, so. I know this video was posted over a year ago, but i am hoping someone can tell me how he can get that beautiful copper colour? And if you know can you tell me the values you use? Please, i need to know!!!
It's reasonably simple: full red, half green on the colour bars, tweak further from there if you have to. 😁
@@BorderWise12 Thank you!😁
I thought there was a discord for this channel
Not anymore. The old public one got too big and chaotic to moderate properly. I've got a Patreon Discord now, and there are two fan0run servers that have sprung up instead.
Ok so what’s the diffrence between 1m and 3m loaders? I made a cannon that has 3m loaders and it does the same damage as my 1m loader…
Did you change the shells as well?
@@BorderWise12 I put the same shells because it wouldn’t accept longer shells but I increased the gauge
The main difference is the gauge they can hold. You'll see that you *might* be able to slip in more components if you use 2 or 1 module blocks instead of 4 modules, keeping your shell length filling the space at its maximum gauge
How the hell did you get the double guns working? I try to do the same thing with 3 z-axis offset guns and they perpetually say "NO SHELL LOADED"
There's a few things that could be going wrong. :
- Did you actually assign the right shells to all guns?
- Are there any gauge connection points, connectors or loaders touching and making one gun hog all of the shells?
- Are your shells the right size for the loaders?
@@BorderWise12 i have actually figured out the issue. The autoloaders of different guns were touching eachother.
I despise the nazis for ruining such a nice efficient shape, its a good way to arrange things tainted by some of the worst of recent human history
I hate them for ruining a bunch of stuff. Eagles, goose-stepping, snazzy uniforms, the Charlie Chaplin-style mustache... list goes on. 😢
Also the whole WW2 and genocide thing. That was extremely uncool of them...
Somehow I feel like multi-gun turrets always do more damage, I can’t explain it but they always simply seem much more powerful than single gun ones. Maybe it’s just the shells hitting at the same time are a lot more likely to break blocks rather than damage them when they hit
And multiple shells being fired simultaneously are harder for LAMs to kill.
@@Destroyer_V0 oh yeah that’s a good point, unless it’s a very rapid fire gun it’s much harder to shoot down all the shells.
@@whwhwhhwhhhwhdldkjdsnsjsks6544
Funny ya say that. 150mm with a fire rate of... 2000 odd RPM sound like it shoots fast enough?
1m beltfed shells, of course. A lot, of autoloaders and cooling. Recoil? Eh. Accuracy is optional.
Does anybody else think the voice becomes slightly distorted when the guns start firing ?
Should an aps turret be 1/2 the cost of the entire craft if the whole craft cost 120000?
That's not too unusual. APS components are pretty expensive.
@@BorderWise12 huh,guess I underestimated my aps worth xD
Heeeyyyyyyyy How do we submit for a showcase?
Er... you don't? Or you put your stuff on the workshop and hope I see it. 😅
@@BorderWise12
Oh, ok. Well, fingers crossed, then?
There magazines not clips
The recoil rings aren't unfortunate symbolisms, they're clearly shurikens / pinwheels, since they poke out further than their bases.
Honestly... just stop playing into the "symbolism" and just call them all pinwheels.
Ya know, if you simply turned your stuff the other direction your stuff wouldn't have the unfortunate symbolism.
It would be unfortunate from the other direction then... 'cos 3D game. 😅
@@BorderWise12 Tru ig. Sucky thing is that they used that symbol but it wasn't theirs first. And it meant something like peace or something (I don't remember exactly.)
Adventure mode when?