Ah! No matter how many times you watch a video, sometimes you still miss something. Here are any mistakes that have been caught: 12:40 - When I pop up the last equation, it's the same as the previous but with a different answer. It should read: "200 * 16 / 8 = 400 steps (old)." Thanks to Christopher SS Reid for the catch!
Chris check the links to Amazon they are for a 150mm screw not a 400mm. Zyltech has pre-cut length screws with small flange nuts cheaper no need for a custom length. I have no complaints about the screw and Delrin nut from Zyltech. Thanks for everything great mod.
Thanks for the video! I was already stumbling down the same road about to order these leadscrews but I was a bit worried that the 2mm lead might spin the motors too fast. Great to see it's not an issue for you. I was already thinking I was overthinking!! I used your links during my purchase. Thanks for your continual contributions to the community!
I just completed upgrading to new 8mm diameter, 2mm pitch, 2mm lead lead screw with a small flange Delrin nut from Zyltech. Zeltech has pre cut screws 400mm long just need to look for them on the website. Cheaper than a custom cut screw. Total cost using coupon $20 and change shipped priority mail. The original screw 370mm. the new screw at 400m is longer but doesn't get in the way. Everything went together easily and works great. No more bed falling at the end of a print. I did have to reduce the z max feedrate my steppers skipped steps when making rapid z moves. All in all a great mod.
Wow! This sounds like the problem we are having with our Ender3 that we up graded to 500mm z axis. At the end of the print the whole axis drops. My wife recorded it hitting her print. Barely touch it and it wants to spin downwards.
Thanks for this video. It helped me setup new z steps. I bought 700mm in the same specs as yours cause it was the only pitch available in that length. I now have 605mm of print height. Subscribed to your channel. You rock.
This is a great upgrade. It does make it a bear to move the -Z- axis because it has to spin 4 times to get the same movement. On my TH3D board I had to slow the acceleration down to 10 from 15. At 15 the motor just made a hell of a noise and wouldn't move at all due to not being able to spin that fast. The nut that you link to from ZYLtech has a completely different bolt circle diameter. I was going to drill the nut with the smaller stock bolt circle but then there was no room for a nut below because of it's bigger diameter. It turns out the 3.3mm clearance hole (in the new nut) is the right diameter for a 4mm x .7 tap. So I tapped the holes in the nut and drilled the bigger (22mm) bolt pattern in the plate that the nut bolts to on the Ender. It came out great and is a more solid mount since the nut is much beefier. Of course there in nothing wrong with the smaller nut.
I am also having the noise you are speaking of. Thank you for posting this. Have you had any issues with waves in the print when you swapped to 1600 on the th3d firmware and ezboard. I am experiencing this. All exactly 2mm apart. How did you adjust to 1600 steps on the ezboard firmware?
@@Eythica I have not experienced any waves in my parts at all. The printer is printing just as good as before if not better. I have played around with different layer heights as well. Instead of .12, .16, .2, .24, etc., (Chuck Hellebuck's magic numbers as referenced in the video) I can now print with .1 layer heights .1, .12, .14, .16, whatever you want as long as it is in .1 increments. This is all explained in the video. To change your -Z- steps connect to your printer with Pronterface and issue an M503 command (by issue I mean M503 enter). This will show you your current step values. Issue an M92 Z 1600.0. Issue an M500 (this stores your new z-step value). Issue an M503. This shows you your current stepper motor values. In my case it is X 80.0, Y 80.0, Z 1600.0, and E 142.35 (my e-steps are set up for a dual gear extruder, your E value will be different). You can also change it via the control panel but it is going to take a very long time to change it from 400 to 1600. In any case from the control panel press the button, choose configuration and press the button, choose advanced settings and press the button, choose Steps/mm and press the button, choose Z and press the button, and start scrolling all the way up to 1600. When you are done find the screen where you can store settings (I can't remember which screen this is, I think it is the screen after you pick configuration) and store your settings. There will be a confirmation beep. Now if you turn your printer off the new Z value will remain. This serves the same function as M500 above. I hope this helps.
@@frogmandave1 Hi Scott, I appreciate your detailed response. Those are all steps I have taken. After setting steps in a variety of ways to operate at 1600 steps, flashing, reflashing, callibrating, tuning, tightening, and checking and replacing parts on the machine that could have possibly created the issue, I still had horizontal waves every 2mm on my prints at 1600 steps. I ended up swapping back to my 800 step lead screw for now. There are some quality issues still, but that is due to an imperfection on my original 800 step lead screw (that is why I was replacing it), however the waves are gone. That was the only way I could get rid of the issue. I have run into 3 others also experiencing this. I can confirm that the acceleration adjustment did take care of the sound when I had the 1600 step lead screw in, so yay for that! :)
I completed this modification last week with great success. The bed is ROCK solid now, and more accurate! It will never fall again. Initially I had a squeak but after a few drops of oil it is silent. Updating the firmware was simple enough. With the addition of stepper dampers, and a silent motherboard; this has been a transformational week for the Ender 5. Do you think a lead screw adjustment would also benefit the Ender 3?
The dampers should be unnecessary with the silent board, although they shouldn't cause any problems as long as they aren't overheating. The only reason this would benefit the Ender 3 is if you wanted greater flexibility with layer heights.
I just made the swap the to the new lead screw and I have a gnarly squeak on downward motion. It sounds like its coming from the coupler near the bottom but I have no idea. Where did you apply the oil?
My E5+ arrived yesterday. It went together well. The hardest part is getting the T nuts for the fillimemt holder into the rail after assembly. The bracket should be installed to the rail before the rail is assembled tothe "cage". I wanted to mention something relevant to this video. My Z axis lead screws have only 2 starts. That means the lead is 4mm and not the 8mm you had when you made this video. Looks like Creality is paying attention to some feedback. I've already ordered some Delrin AB nuts. I also ordered a Mean Well PSU to match the one provided by Creality. Kinda pricey @ $107 from Amazon. I will wire the two PSUs in parallel to provide 1kw@24vdc. That should keep the printer from catching on fire. I'll send some pics of the mod.
I'm happy to hear you were able to get up and running. On the lead screws, in this video, I was talking about the regular Ender 5, not the Ender 5 Plus. They use different screws. Thanks!
I own a CR-10, not a Ender 5. But I still watch your videos, because I almost always learn something new I can apply to my printer. And your methodical way of testing new parts is a inspiration. But I had to uninstall my anti backlash nuts because when I came back to the printer again to print, the nozzle would either scrabe or be to far off the bed.
Thank you so much for the kind feedback! I'm curious about your anti-backlash issues. That sounds like it's binding and/or it's creating additional strain on your Z axis motor. If it feels like it moves properly when turned by hand, increase the voltage some on the stepper driver.
Like many Ender 5’s mine squeaked when I got it and lubing it with correct did not fix it. Next I installed flexible couplers, still made noise (interestingly, I never had issue with bed falling. So, I just installed Teflon POM screws with no messy lube and the bed falls to bottom in a few seconds! So, now I will add POM anti-backlash and that I feel may be the ultimate low friction setup!
Thanks so much for this video. Upgrade went mostly smooth. I had a bit of trouble with getting the washers and nuts on two of the screws as there was a very tight clearance on the new backlash nut. No room for the spring between the nut and the shaft so spring is resting against the bottom of the nuts. Doesn't seem to make a difference. Once that was finished it worked perfectly. Much smoother and quieter then the old lead screw. Did have to reset the zstepper to 1601 to get the proper travel distance. Again, thanks.
Wow I guess I got lucky with my Ender 5! It came included with that spring nut already, so I haven't had to deal with my bed falling unless I've printed something really big, though I can push it down if I want to. I got mine early in 2019. This is a great tutorial on how to change out the screw and lube it up, though!
I love your channel! I started with my ender 3v2 a few months back but never seen any of your videos untill i searched for info on the ender 5.. huh ... glad I found your channel... keep'em coming,,,
@@kerseyfabs honestly I'll be looking for it... I'm waiting on my mini e3 v2 for my 5. The firmware is a headache for me... my ender 3v2 took me 2 weeks and help from a friend... hoping for better/faster results this time... 😆
Great videos as usual.. very good detail and NO MUSIC.. great... I tried local eBay and Amazon but no sellers.. Went to Banggood.. 400 mm out of stock so got the 500mm and will cut it down by 100mm.. bought to backlash nut set too. I really hate the bed falling.. Hope it doesn't cause the rippling effect though that some have mentioned.
Thanks! I'm glad you were able to find something that worked. I haven't heard of any rippling affect. It seems odd how greater resolution would cause ripples. It should be smoother.
Greetings, Yep I'm a bit late to this Upgrade but here it goes. I also wanted to add the T8 Tr8x2 2 by 1 by 2 lead screw to my Ender 5 Pro as it just makes sense. I have the lead screw and the Backlash Nut and was ready to start but I ran into this issue. On my E3 V2 I installed the JyersUI Firmware on the motherboard and display, ( V 2.0.1 build V1.3.5 ). The Ender 3 board is the 4.2.2, 32 bit with the RET6 chip and 512 of flash memory. This same board is on the E5 Pro soooo I added a new display like the E3 V2 and flashed the 5 Pro with the JyersUI on the motherboard and the display. After making some direction changes to the X and Y stepper as well as relocating the X home switch and some axis e-step calibrations I was up and running. But here is the rub, the z axis travel limit is 250 mm, the e-steps for the z axis max out at 800. These limits are the ones for the E3 V2 printer and I'm just not sure how to make any adjustment to the firmware to allow the 5 Pro the 300 mm of Z travel it is capable of reaching and how to get the e-steps to 1600 on it. If your have any thoughts please let me know. Thanks for the great upgrade and I hope I can make it work on the 5 Pro. Best Regards Doug
I’m losing my mind. I needed to swap one rod on my ender 5 plus since it was bent and decided to swap out both for the upgrade in the video. The thing screeches like hell! I used the exact same grease, followed the application process etc and no dice. Help!
I wonder how much I'm gonna miss being able to move my bed out of the way to get to different parts of its enclosure to clean/perform maintenance. Oh well!
the most hated thing is not that bro, the bad stuff of this print is if you touch the z-axes fram withou leveling ,you can make a hole in the magentic bed...I see many people who destroy the magentic bed at the 3er day.
I am currently looking at buying a ender 5 and trapezoidal thread does not need greece. A tiny bit of normal oil will do the trick. The brass peace should actuall be made from bronze but that is more expensive but will suck in the oil and then your done :) We did it on a old harley from 1925 a whole different machine but also needs lubrication. I am watching much video's you are making and am gladfull for the video's. Now it's time to convince the boss (who has the money :) ) to let me buy the ender 5.
Thanks for all of the feedback and thanks for checking out my channel. I find that even if the screw doesn't need the lubrication, it does cut down on noise. Good luck getting an Ender 5!
Kris, good video, so if I look at the links it would be about $20 per machine to do this mod. After reading all of the comments, I think I'll wait a while and see if more changes come.
Hello my friends. I don't have much experience for building my 3d printer. I have a few questions. I know that if the BED of the 3d printer moves in the vertical direction and its weight is high, if power will be cut off and the lead screw is not suitable, there is a possibility of it falling and you cannot continue printing after the power is connected Or it will be very difficult to continue printing. I have designed a printer that I will tell you about and I would appreciate it if you could help me with the questions I have. Bed size: aluminum 50x50x0.6cm with a glass on top. This bed only move in Y axis. 1- Can 1 nema 17 (4.4kg/cm) with GT2 pulley with 6mm belt move this Bed in Y axis without any problem? You probably tell me that it depends on the bed weight. And my question is, what should be the weight of this bed? so that 1 nema 17 (4.4kg/cm) can move it horizontally? 2- The accuracy in the Z direction is very important for us. and for this reason, I chose this lead screw: (( D= 8mm/ lead= 1mm/ Pitch = 1mm/ 1 start )) and the driver is DRV8825 which has a 1/32 microstep. My extruder is indirect and only E3d-v6 attach to x axix and I attach MK8 filament driver to Structure and moving filament with PTFE pipe 4-2mm. With these conditions, if the power is cut off, the X-axis will not fall in the vertical direction if I use this lead screw? I used two lead screws with these specifications in the vertical direction. Please guide me so that I don't go the wrong way and buy the wrong parts.
Did they change the default configuration on the ender 5 pro? I got mine a couple weeks ago and it doesn't have any issue with the bed falling. Weird, but nice!
I upgraded my Z Axis lead screw on my Ender 5 because I hated the way it would fall on its own, I use the TH3D online configurator because it works so well, under where it says ENDER5_NEW_LEADSCREW it says it sets it to 800/steps/mm. after flashing the new firmware I noticed my Z axis would only move half the distance when printing or in manual mode, I think its because my lead screw is a 1600steps/mm not a 800, its a T8 2 lead, 2 pitch with one start. I cant even find a replacement leadscrew on line thats a 800steps/mm for the Ender 5, seems like the TH3D firmware sets the Zsteps/mm to 400 and makes a terrible noise if you set it to 800 or 1600.
I haven't used their configurator. Luckily, it would be easy to change this in your own configuration or simply modify it after you flash the firmware.
I maybe have missed something. but how did you fix your extrusion / vibrating problem on your printer?. I followed your guide on linear rails and my prints look the same. Now on your megladon it looks like those issues are gone. Great work btw!
I think what you're referring to is answered in my silent board video. After I upgraded to linear rails, I upgraded to the silent board and it improved my print quality.
@@kerseyfabs Thanks, and thank you for making this video, it explained things quite well and is what made me change my lead screw because I was tired of my bed dropping, but didn't really have the know-how.
No problem! Please check the description of the video. I have links to Amazon, ZYLtech, and Banggood, depending on who has them in stock and where you'd like to order them from. I'd post them direct but that's quite a bit of text to repeat!
Great video!! Love the improvement! I had to turn my dial to 1600 manually because i dont have a rasberry pie or a computer its connected too. I came up with taking my knob off and use a standard bit in my drill and i got to 1600 quick instead of turning it with your fingers!
@@kerseyfabs I'm in the process of printing my second round of test prints, 0.08, 0.10, 0.12, 0.15, 0.16, 0.20, 0.24, 0.28, 0.30 and 0.32 layer heights to do comparisons between the old lead screw at the 0.04 resolution and the new 0.01 resolution. I'm tabulating the actual printing time between the two and I'll be taking microscopic images of the layers to try to see the improvements, if any. I've just started another round of 11.5 hours of printing the models.
What is the original lead screw (pitch, starts, lead) for Ender 5 plus from factory new? If I change the Z axis with this T8 POM Anti Backlash Nuts Tr8x2 for Lead 2mm Pitch 2mm (has 1 starts), do I have to change original Ender 5 plus lead screw with 1 starts also or I can use the on with factory?
Hello, I know this video is for the ender 5 but can you please answer a question on the ender 5 plus. I'm having an issue with the bed falling slightly on the left side. I have installed the pom anti backlash nuts you suggested, it's better but still moves slightly. Can you please post a link with a new lead screw for me to use on the 5plus. Thank You.
@@kerseyfabs yes, I use digital calipers, it's only the left side. If I hold the screw and turn it to level it's good. When I let it go out moves down about 2-3 mm. Maybe the pom nut is bad/ out of spec? Thank you for your videos they are extremely helpful for us new guys.
hey man, this is a fantastic video but I was just wondering if you could help me out. I'm replacing my ender 3s1 leadscrew to a 2mm pitch 2mm lead / 1 start but im also using klipper which means I can only change the settings within klipper config files like Mainsale. Do you know how to config the klipper settings to compensate for the new type of screw? The official klipper instructions are very confusing...
I can't say I agree with much of your analysis of this "problem". The laws of physics aren't on your side. One of the virtues of the lead screw motion control system such as employed here is that it is nearly impossible for the traveling nut to back drive the lead screw. That seems to be what you're saying is happening. I'm very skeptical. Normally, a lead screw converts rotary motion (supplied by the motor) to linear motion which is the reaction of the traveling nut to the rotary motion supplied by the motor. In order for this motion conversion to occur the traveling nut must be prevented from rotating with the lead screw. In this case the traveling nut is attached to the Z axis platform so that the motion of the traveling nut becomes the motion of the platform. Back driving is exactly the opposite. Back driving is the conversion of linear motion to rotary motion. Back driving a leadscrew requires a tremendous amount of force being applied to the traveling nut. The only force being applied to the Ender 5 Z axis traveling nut is the weight of the bed plus any prints on the bed. I don't believe that's nearly enough force. A simple test would have been to try to manually force the bed to back drive the lead screw using your hand or by adding heavy objects to the bed with the printer unplugged. That won't work now that the printer is modified. I would theorize that this bed falling you see is actually the printer "parking" the bed when the print is finished. I believe you said it only happened when the print was done. Think about it. It makes much more sense to me. The addition of AB nuts to any lead screw system is an improvement and changing the pitch may lead to better resolution but the falling bed could only be stopped by firmware settings IMHO. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leadscrew This wikipedia page describes back driving as "impossible". Impossible is not the word I'd use but close. Actually, I think the lead screw would bend or the nut would strip before back driving occurred. BTW, I disagree with using grease on this lead screw. It will only collect dirt. Try some silicone spray that dries to the touch or use Delrin nuts. That is what I'll do.
I'm actually really confused by your rebuttal. First of all, the article never even uses the word "impossible" anywhere. In fact, it gives both the equation for raising conditions and the equation for lowering conditions. The lowering conditions are reliant on the diameter of the screw, the lead, and the coefficient of friction (and of course the force being applied). If I wanted to disassemble the printer, I could actually do the math on this. My analysis though is that both the coefficient of friction is low enough and the lead is such that with the weight of the bed it lowers. I have proven this to be the case in two ways. 1) When you power off the printer, the bed falls. 2) When you disable the motors, the bed falls. I have then tested my remedy of this situation by replacing the lead screw with one with a more shallow lead and the bed no longer falls. My analysis has also been tested by numerous viewers of this video who have posted the same symptoms and that my solutions does in deed work for them. If "parking" was being performed by the printer's firmware, changing the lead screw would have no effects on the operation. Keep in mind that a screw is simply an inclined plane wrapped helically around an axle. It has similar properties and the work it performs is heavily reliant on the slope of the plane.
@@kerseyfabs Well, I'm embarrassed to say that I made the classic mistake of making an assumption. My assumption was that you made a verbal error when saying the lead on the stock screws was 8mm. I've used a lot of lead screws in my career but I've never seen one with 4 starts. I must wonder if they are common in China. Anyway, I assumed it was a mistake because what manufacturer would use a screw that would yield .4mm resolution when they could use a screw yielding .1mm resolution. It appears that Creality really is that stupid. So, most of my rant was based upon that assumption and now I must eat my words.......sort of. After doing the math on a 8mm lead screw I agree that it can be back driven. That makes Creality double stupid. However, I will re-state emphatically that a PROPERLY DESIGNED lead screw will not back drive the screw. I did see the word "impossible in one of my research articles I just credited the wrong one. However, Wikipedia does say: "Most are self-locking (cannot be back-driven)". And they are correct. I still suggest using Delrin AB nuts. I've already ordered mine from Zyltech.
Just a couple questions. Some printers have the anti-back lash screw on the bottom of the plate while others (like my ender 5 S1) have it on the top of the plate. Does this really make any difference? would you be able to identify a part number for an ender 5 s1 anti-backlash nut. Thank you
@@kerseyfabs just ordered the parts through the link. Thanks for going over the e step adjustment. Did you do a calibration after to fine tune your Z? I've noticed mine is off and I kind of dialed it in but even on calibration cubes I get a little squish (I guess z banding - thicker layers) hoping this helps I just can't give up on my ender...
@@RandoTechNerd No problem. I'll leave that up to you. I've done both. These days I usually leave it at spec and dial my flow accordingly unless it's really bad.
@@kerseyfabs nice thank you I'll try the default and try a test print. I watched another video that kind of shat on back lash nuts. Has it worked out well for you?
@RandoTechNerd While some people say they don't do anything on printers, due to gravity, I think they can clean up some of the slop on the cheap screws. Either way, they certainly don't cause problems.
Amazing content as always!! Have you experienced any sort of rippling/banding in the Z axis? I've bought the exact same parts you've used, but when I switch from the stock one to the 2mm lead one, there's some consistent rippling along the Z axis, that follows the lead (ripples are 2mm apart)
@@kerseyfabs I'm using a SKR 1.3 and TMC2209. With the stock LS (400 steps/mm) it's ok, but as soon as I install the new LS (1600 steps/mm) the prints show rippling/banding. m.imgur.com/a/msr0bYP Cheers!
@@siwiskate Did you ever find a resolution to this? Myself and a couple of others are also experiencing this and can''t seem to find a resolution. Also, out of curiosity, who's firmware are you using?
The only thing I can think of is that the nut needs to be realigned or your screw is bent. Try the nut first by loosening the screws holding it in place and seeing if it moved freely. If so, lower the bed all the way and then retighten the screws.
@@kerseyfabs the screw looks straight but could be bent. I’ve been getting a lot of crappy stuff from amazon lately. Thanks for the help. Everything has been coming along. I did have to put longer belts and now the screw but that’s been the only real challenge. I think I may need another rail tho. One was hanging up a tiny bit. The manufacturer told me that will go away in a few times running it. The x axis is butter can’t even heat it move! Keep up the good work I’ll let you know when I figure out the z problem
Took the screw out and rolled it and it seemed straight. Did what you recommended and it was still binding at the bottom and top. Ran it up and down a few times and noticed the top of the screw was moving left and right a lot (wobbling). Put the old screw back in and it went all the way up and down no problem. I think the screw may have a slight warp. Ordering a new one. Thanks again for your help!
Why not take it to the maximum Z resolution of 0.04? You can't compare it to the old lead screw, but the potential to get a really thin layer is the bigger deal to me.
That's a fun idea and I've been thinking of doing a separate video for something like that. There are martial/extrusion issues with going so small. I didn't want to introduce new issues in this video.
@@kerseyfabs well I figured that generally nearer the edges you see more issues. 0.1 is right in the middle of two steps and 0.19 is near an edge. But you are right it probably makes little difference. BTW I really appreciated the tutorial on pitch vs starts as I really didn't understand it.
Will this work for my E5 Plus? Obviously with two of the screws. My biggest problem is the backlash and pain of getting my bed to level properly. I've done the bl touch mod to the firmware and that helped a bunch, but this with the additional accuracy would top it off.
I won't be testing it anytime soon. I just don't have the time unfortunately. Feel free to try it out and report back or just try the 2mm screw. Thanks!
I just installed the lead screw you recommended on my Ender 5, lubed it and it's making horrible squealing noises at different points. It seems to be the worst at the top 1/3rd of the screw, but it does it a bit further down intermittently. Any suggestions?
Ok I do not know how did you put new screws with the spring, so easily but my backlash screws are so bad made that I am unable to put them easily on the bar. I assume on the edge there is some rest of the metal sawdust or during the manufacture they were not so accourate, so I can not put it on the bar at all even I tried to push it with the solid force it did not help (I do not want to scratch the leading bars). So I discarded them and mybe one day I will try it again haha
@@kerseyfabs Hello. Nope I figured it out lol, I have ordered correct size but wrong "pitch"? I did not know there is something like this (well newbie here hehe) atleast I know this and next time I will be careful about that.
All three of these fit and work. I haven't completed testing to tell you my favorite: POM, no anti-backlash: amzn.to/2qJ2Mkv Brass, anti-backlash: amzn.to/2KSiPU5 POM, anti-backlash: amzn.to/2rlkQ4o
The Ender 5 Plus is already using 4mm lead screws, so going even shallower shouldn't make a huge difference. The screws on the Ender 5 Plus are about 47mm, so 50mm would work.
Is this Mod also viable for the ender 5 Plus? I saw your video where you used "2-Pack 3D Printer TR8x4 T8 POM Anti Backlash Nuts for Pitch 2mm Lead 4mm Acme Threaded Rod Eliminate" to stabilize bed jutter/shake w/o having to lube the thread, but it seems to me that finer vertical control would have the potential to produce smoother/finer results. (total n00b here so if this question is moronic feel free to put a pointy hat on and send me to stand in the corner)
@@kerseyfabs I have a glass plate on mine and whenever the stepper loses power it drops like a rock. So anytime the printer is off it falls, I have to manually move the bed up when I repower and go to home the machine since it drops the z first when homing. I am going to try the lead screw in this video or use open builds anti backlash nut that uses a set screw to provide tension.
So i have fully installed the New Lead Screw, Changed the Zsteps to 1600 and Stored the Settings. In terms of Slicing it what do i change in terms of the settings? the line width?
Ugh! You're absolutely right! The second 2 should be an eight! Thanks for catching that. Time to start a correction comment! No matter how many times I watch a video.... Thanks for catching it!
@@kerseyfabs - I have an ender 3 pro that i converted to linear rails, and when I did, the x gantry is so heavynow that it free-falls when i turn the printer off (or when the print is done). :(
Very informative. Thank you for educating me, but I'm a tad confused. My Ender 5 Pro has a lead of 4mm (OEM). If I understood correctly, I can change the lead screw and nut combo to a 2mm lead and it would greatly improve my prints. Correct? What would the new steps be for the stepper? Would you recommended going from a 4mm to a 2mm lead?
I don't actually think it greatly improves prints. It may improve them some but this was mainly about upgrading to fix the falling bed. If you half the lead, you double the steps.
@@kerseyfabs Ah, I didn't think either of the E-5 machines came with anti backlash. I had seen one video that addressed the bed drop by adding anti backlash nuts.
@@kerseyfabs ok - so it is a new one - I measured after watching your vid and sure enough, the Z base was dropping 25mm instead of the 50mm on the LCD screen. Uploaded 800 versus the 400 that was there and hey presto, all sorted. It printed ok when I got it, but once I flashed the firmware, it reset 800 to 400 and ballsed up my print. All good now, so thank you for your great vid, Now a subscriber!!!!
QQ. I assume all the Creatlity 1.1.5 boards are the same and its just the Firmware loaded that is the difference? I am having a strange issue with my Z axis , it appears all of my prints are squished and i am not sure how to fix it. Upgraded the Lead screw per vid and set up the FW but everything is still swished. Bad stepper motor?
@@kerseyfabs I thought i was losing my mind so i went back and re installed the original lead screw and i have the same issue. Steps are set to 400 . Here is the line from my FW Marlin 1.1.9 , 80, 80, 400, 93 (x,y,z,e). i am printing a 20 mm calibration cube i will send you a link when its done. Only way i could get it to finish was to cut my extrusion multiplier down to .8. With the 1.1.4 board and Creality FW it was fine. Put this 1.1.5 board in and flashed it to Marlin 1.1.9 and all of the issue started.
Cube finished , x and y are spot on 20 mm, Z is 10 mm, looks like exactly half. thoughts? I have tried with 3 different slicers same result, must be something in the FW.
For anyone looking for a 2mm lead screw or nut and Amazon is sold out, ZYLtech has them in stock with brass or Derlin (type of plastic) anti-backlash nuts INCLUDED! Either one is $16.95 USD at time of writing. Choose the "0-500mm" option and under "Custom Length:" enter 400mm (for Ender 5). And as always, if you use code "KERSEYFABS" at checkout, you'll save 15% off your order. Brass Nut: bit.ly/ZTT8Brass Derlin Nut: bit.ly/ZTT8Derlin 15% Off: KERSEYFABS
Well, I was obviously not meant to change out my lead screw. The Zyltech anti-backlash nut has a larger bolt pattern than the Creality Ender 5 nut and so it will not fit into the existing holes on the build plate frame. So $17 bucks spent to find out I cannot use it. "sad face." I've called them to see if they have a different size, but nowhere on their web site do they show sizes for bolt patterns on the anti-backlash nuts. So I gave a try to your Banggood link. I'll not give up on this mod, yet.
@@S.A.S.H. I had someone else contact me about the ZYLtech issue and they said they called ZYLtech tech support and they had a smaller hole pattern available that they sent them a replacement for. See if you can do the same. Please let me know.
Kersey Fabrications I see . My right lead screw has a wobble (maybe bent) I believe because Of shipping or w/e . Ill be getting those pom/ backlash nuts soon so I’ll try that first to see if that helps the wobble . the ender 5 + leads are like what 500mm?
Hi After the upgrade do you have to change the Z speed velocity and acceleration. As the steppers have to move 4 times faster to achieve the same Z speed before the upgrade. The default settings are 10 and 100 respectively which to me means setting these values to 2.5 and 25. to keep the Z stepper stepping ant the same rate i.e. steps per second. This of course means the the Z axis will actually move 4 times slower. 10mm/s equals 5 revolutions per second (2mm pitch) or 300rpm and the creality stepper motor is rated to 1000rpm. so moving 4 start lead screw means 4 x 300rpm i.e 1200rpm which exceeds the motor rating. Or is my thinking totally wrong
I changed to single start 2mm lead lead screws on my printer, not a Creality but that doesn’t matter, yes as well as changing steps from 400 to 1600/mm gad to change max feedrate for Z axis from default of 20 down to 7 in my skr mini v2 config as at the default feedrate just caused the stepper to miss steps
For anyone looking for a 2mm lead screw or nut and Amazon is sold out, ZYLtech has them in stock with brass or Derlin (type of plastic) anti-backlash nuts INCLUDED! Either one is $16.95 USD at time of writing. Choose the "0-500mm" option and under "Custom Length:" enter 400mm (for Ender 5). And as always, if you use code "KERSEYFABS" at checkout, you'll save 15% off your order. Brass Nut: bit.ly/ZTT8Brass Derlin Nut: bit.ly/ZTT8Derlin 15% Off: KERSEYFABS
@@kerseyfabs Aaah, this is what I hate about living in Australia (we call it the Australia tax) - lead screw - around $15 - cheapest shipping options - USD 45. hmm, nope... Will poke around in china - they tend to have cheaper shipping options. Yup, checking aliexpress for lead screw - haven't looked at specifics yet - $10-15 and free shipping. Will post a pointer when I work out who has them.
@@pquodling Ahh! I can do Chinese too. Try these out: Banggood Links: T8 2mm Lead Screw (400mm Length): bit.ly/BGT82mm400mm T8 2mm Lead Screw Nut: bit.ly/BGT82MMNUT
I printed a tpu spacer ring and applyed a small amount or resistance between the stepper and the cuppler not moved in 6 months if your looking for a quick fix
@@kerseyfabs I level the bed, paper is on the loose side, start the print, (a nice bead is started) half way through buggers start forming to where the extruder is bumping into them, so I stop the print check the level and have to turn the leveling knobs 1 1/2 turns before the paper will slide through. Ender 5 purchased 1 week ago.
Ah! No matter how many times you watch a video, sometimes you still miss something. Here are any mistakes that have been caught:
12:40 - When I pop up the last equation, it's the same as the previous but with a different answer. It should read: "200 * 16 / 8 = 400 steps (old)." Thanks to Christopher SS Reid for the catch!
Chris check the links to Amazon they are for a 150mm screw not a 400mm. Zyltech has pre-cut length screws with small flange nuts cheaper no need for a custom length. I have no complaints about the screw and Delrin nut from Zyltech. Thanks for everything great mod.
Thanks for the video! I was already stumbling down the same road about to order these leadscrews but I was a bit worried that the 2mm lead might spin the motors too fast. Great to see it's not an issue for you. I was already thinking I was overthinking!!
I used your links during my purchase. Thanks for your continual contributions to the community!
Happy to do it! Good luck on your upgrade!
Nice! This solves one of the most annoying issues with the Ender 5.
I just completed upgrading to new 8mm diameter, 2mm pitch, 2mm lead lead screw with a small flange Delrin nut from Zyltech. Zeltech has pre cut screws 400mm long just need to look for them on the website. Cheaper than a custom cut screw. Total cost using coupon $20 and change shipped priority mail. The original screw 370mm. the new screw at 400m is longer but doesn't get in the way. Everything went together easily and works great. No more bed falling at the end of a print. I did have to reduce the z max feedrate my steppers skipped steps when making rapid z moves. All in all a great mod.
Thanks for the feedback Ron! I'm glad that all worked out so well!
Wow! This sounds like the problem we are having with our Ender3 that we up graded to 500mm z axis. At the end of the print the whole axis drops. My wife recorded it hitting her print. Barely touch it and it wants to spin downwards.
Thanks for this video. It helped me setup new z steps. I bought 700mm in the same specs as yours cause it was the only pitch available in that length. I now have 605mm of print height. Subscribed to your channel. You rock.
Glad it helped! Thanks!
This is a great upgrade. It does make it a bear to move the -Z- axis because it has to spin 4 times to get the same movement. On my TH3D board I had to slow the acceleration down to 10 from 15. At 15 the motor just made a hell of a noise and wouldn't move at all due to not being able to spin that fast. The nut that you link to from ZYLtech has a completely different bolt circle diameter. I was going to drill the nut with the smaller stock bolt circle but then there was no room for a nut below because of it's bigger diameter. It turns out the 3.3mm clearance hole (in the new nut) is the right diameter for a 4mm x .7 tap. So I tapped the holes in the nut and drilled the bigger (22mm) bolt pattern in the plate that the nut bolts to on the Ender. It came out great and is a more solid mount since the nut is much beefier. Of course there in nothing wrong with the smaller nut.
I am also having the noise you are speaking of. Thank you for posting this. Have you had any issues with waves in the print when you swapped to 1600 on the th3d firmware and ezboard. I am experiencing this. All exactly 2mm apart. How did you adjust to 1600 steps on the ezboard firmware?
@@Eythica I have not experienced any waves in my parts at all. The printer is printing just as good as before if not better. I have played around with different layer heights as well. Instead of .12, .16, .2, .24, etc., (Chuck Hellebuck's magic numbers as referenced in the video) I can now print with .1 layer heights .1, .12, .14, .16, whatever you want as long as it is in .1 increments. This is all explained in the video.
To change your -Z- steps connect to your printer with Pronterface and issue an M503 command (by issue I mean M503 enter). This will show you your current step values. Issue an M92 Z 1600.0. Issue an M500 (this stores your new z-step value). Issue an M503. This shows you your current stepper motor values. In my case it is X 80.0, Y 80.0, Z 1600.0, and E 142.35 (my e-steps are set up for a dual gear extruder, your E value will be different).
You can also change it via the control panel but it is going to take a very long time to change it from 400 to 1600. In any case from the control panel press the button, choose configuration and press the button, choose advanced settings and press the button, choose Steps/mm and press the button, choose Z and press the button, and start scrolling all the way up to 1600. When you are done find the screen where you can store settings (I can't remember which screen this is, I think it is the screen after you pick configuration) and store your settings. There will be a confirmation beep. Now if you turn your printer off the new Z value will remain. This serves the same function as M500 above. I hope this helps.
@@frogmandave1 Hi Scott, I appreciate your detailed response. Those are all steps I have taken. After setting steps in a variety of ways to operate at 1600 steps, flashing, reflashing, callibrating, tuning, tightening, and checking and replacing parts on the machine that could have possibly created the issue, I still had horizontal waves every 2mm on my prints at 1600 steps. I ended up swapping back to my 800 step lead screw for now. There are some quality issues still, but that is due to an imperfection on my original 800 step lead screw (that is why I was replacing it), however the waves are gone. That was the only way I could get rid of the issue. I have run into 3 others also experiencing this.
I can confirm that the acceleration adjustment did take care of the sound when I had the 1600 step lead screw in, so yay for that! :)
I completed this modification last week with great success. The bed is ROCK solid now, and more accurate! It will never fall again. Initially I had a squeak but after a few drops of oil it is silent. Updating the firmware was simple enough. With the addition of stepper dampers, and a silent motherboard; this has been a transformational week for the Ender 5. Do you think a lead screw adjustment would also benefit the Ender 3?
The dampers should be unnecessary with the silent board, although they shouldn't cause any problems as long as they aren't overheating. The only reason this would benefit the Ender 3 is if you wanted greater flexibility with layer heights.
I just made the swap the to the new lead screw and I have a gnarly squeak on downward motion. It sounds like its coming from the coupler near the bottom but I have no idea. Where did you apply the oil?
My E5+ arrived yesterday. It went together well. The hardest part is getting the T nuts for the fillimemt holder into the rail after assembly. The bracket should be installed to the rail before the rail is assembled tothe "cage". I wanted to mention something relevant to this video. My Z axis lead screws have only 2 starts. That means the lead is 4mm and not the 8mm you had when you made this video. Looks like Creality is paying attention to some feedback. I've already ordered some Delrin AB nuts. I also ordered a Mean Well PSU to match the one provided by Creality. Kinda pricey @ $107 from Amazon. I will wire the two PSUs in parallel to provide 1kw@24vdc. That should keep the printer from catching on fire. I'll send some pics of the mod.
I'm happy to hear you were able to get up and running. On the lead screws, in this video, I was talking about the regular Ender 5, not the Ender 5 Plus. They use different screws. Thanks!
I own a CR-10, not a Ender 5.
But I still watch your videos, because I almost always learn something new I can apply to my printer.
And your methodical way of testing new parts is a inspiration. But I had to uninstall my anti backlash nuts because when I came back to the printer again to print, the nozzle would either scrabe or be to far off the bed.
Thank you so much for the kind feedback! I'm curious about your anti-backlash issues. That sounds like it's binding and/or it's creating additional strain on your Z axis motor. If it feels like it moves properly when turned by hand, increase the voltage some on the stepper driver.
Like many Ender 5’s mine squeaked when I got it and lubing it with correct did not fix it. Next I installed flexible couplers, still made noise (interestingly, I never had issue with bed falling. So, I just installed Teflon POM screws with no messy lube and the bed falls to bottom in a few seconds! So, now I will add POM anti-backlash and that I feel may be the ultimate low friction setup!
Thanks so much for this video. Upgrade went mostly smooth. I had a bit of trouble with getting the washers and nuts on two of the screws as there was a very tight clearance on the new backlash nut. No room for the spring between the nut and the shaft so spring is resting against the bottom of the nuts. Doesn't seem to make a difference. Once that was finished it worked perfectly. Much smoother and quieter then the old lead screw. Did have to reset the zstepper to 1601 to get the proper travel distance. Again, thanks.
I'm glad it worked out for you!
Interesting - this isn't a problem anymore with the Ender 5! Just set one up this weekend without this issue.
I don't have any Ender 5's yet but when I do I'll be ready because of you thanks for all you do! Keep up the attention to detail it's awesome!
I really appreciate that. Thanks for watching!
Wow I guess I got lucky with my Ender 5! It came included with that spring nut already, so I haven't had to deal with my bed falling unless I've printed something really big, though I can push it down if I want to. I got mine early in 2019. This is a great tutorial on how to change out the screw and lube it up, though!
Thank you! Yeah, Creality changed the pitch of the lead screw soon after I published this video.
I love your channel! I started with my ender 3v2 a few months back but never seen any of your videos untill i searched for info on the ender 5.. huh ... glad I found your channel... keep'em coming,,,
Awesome! Thank you! I have a new review coming in the next couple of days!
@@kerseyfabs honestly I'll be looking for it... I'm waiting on my mini e3 v2 for my 5. The firmware is a headache for me... my ender 3v2 took me 2 weeks and help from a friend... hoping for better/faster results this time... 😆
Great videos as usual.. very good detail and NO MUSIC.. great... I tried local eBay and Amazon but no sellers.. Went to Banggood.. 400 mm out of stock so got the 500mm and will cut it down by 100mm.. bought to backlash nut set too. I really hate the bed falling.. Hope it doesn't cause the rippling effect though that some have mentioned.
Thanks! I'm glad you were able to find something that worked. I haven't heard of any rippling affect. It seems odd how greater resolution would cause ripples. It should be smoother.
No it doesn't make sense United the has been some torsional stress put into it, when they have assembled theirs? Just guessing
Greetings, Yep I'm a bit late to this Upgrade but here it goes.
I also wanted to add the T8 Tr8x2 2 by 1 by 2 lead screw to my Ender 5 Pro as it just makes sense. I have the lead screw and the Backlash Nut and was ready to start but I ran into this issue.
On my E3 V2 I installed the JyersUI Firmware on the motherboard and display, ( V 2.0.1 build V1.3.5 ). The Ender 3 board is the 4.2.2, 32 bit with the RET6 chip and 512 of flash memory. This same board is on the E5 Pro soooo I added a new display like the E3 V2 and flashed the 5 Pro with the JyersUI on the motherboard and the display. After making some direction changes to the X and Y stepper as well as relocating the X home switch and some axis e-step calibrations I was up and running.
But here is the rub, the z axis travel limit is 250 mm, the e-steps for the z axis max out at 800. These limits are the ones for the E3 V2 printer and I'm just not sure how to make any adjustment to the firmware to allow the 5 Pro the 300 mm of Z travel it is capable of reaching and how to get the e-steps to 1600 on it.
If your have any thoughts please let me know. Thanks for the great upgrade and I hope I can make it work on the 5 Pro.
Best Regards
Doug
I’m losing my mind. I needed to swap one rod on my ender 5 plus since it was bent and decided to swap out both for the upgrade in the video.
The thing screeches like hell! I used the exact same grease, followed the application process etc and no dice.
Help!
Did this upgrade today. Worked perfectly. Thanks for the video!
Thank you for your great videos. What setting would I need to change in Fluidd/Klipper when installing this lead screw on and Ender 5.
No problem! Unfortunately I haven't gotten my feet wet in Klipper to answer your question. I hope someone else can get back to you.
I wonder how much I'm gonna miss being able to move my bed out of the way to get to different parts of its enclosure to clean/perform maintenance. Oh well!
the most hated thing is not that bro, the bad stuff of this print is if you touch the z-axes fram withou leveling ,you can make a hole in the magentic bed...I see many people who destroy the magentic bed at the 3er day.
This is one of the reasons I have a video on installing a glass bed. 🙂
I am currently looking at buying a ender 5 and
trapezoidal thread does not need greece. A tiny bit of normal oil will do the trick. The brass peace should actuall be made from bronze but that is more expensive but will suck in the oil and then your done :) We did it on a old harley from 1925 a whole different machine but also needs lubrication. I am watching much video's you are making and am gladfull for the video's. Now it's time to convince the boss (who has the money :) ) to let me buy the ender 5.
Thanks for all of the feedback and thanks for checking out my channel. I find that even if the screw doesn't need the lubrication, it does cut down on noise. Good luck getting an Ender 5!
Kris, good video, so if I look at the links it would be about $20 per machine to do this mod. After reading all of the comments, I think I'll wait a while and see if more changes come.
Awesome vid! I'd love to see a corexy mod on the Ender 5 next :D
Thank you! I don't think I'd do that to this printer. If you wanted a CoreXY, there are better ways to start. This isn't ideal for that configuration.
Hello my friends. I don't have much experience for building my 3d printer.
I have a few questions. I know that if the BED of the 3d printer moves in the vertical direction and its weight is high, if power will be cut off and the lead screw is not suitable, there is a possibility of it falling and you cannot continue printing after the power is connected Or it will be very difficult to continue printing.
I have designed a printer that I will tell you about and I would appreciate it if you could help me with the questions I have.
Bed size: aluminum 50x50x0.6cm with a glass on top. This bed only move in Y axis.
1- Can 1 nema 17 (4.4kg/cm) with GT2 pulley with 6mm belt move this Bed in Y axis without any problem? You probably tell me that it depends on the bed weight. And my question is, what should be the weight of this bed? so that 1 nema 17 (4.4kg/cm) can move it horizontally?
2- The accuracy in the Z direction is very important for us. and for this reason, I chose this lead screw: (( D= 8mm/ lead= 1mm/ Pitch = 1mm/ 1 start )) and the driver is DRV8825 which has a 1/32 microstep. My extruder is indirect and only E3d-v6 attach to x axix and I attach MK8 filament driver to Structure and moving filament with PTFE pipe 4-2mm.
With these conditions, if the power is cut off, the X-axis will not fall in the vertical direction if I use this lead screw? I used two lead screws with these specifications in the vertical direction.
Please guide me so that I don't go the wrong way and buy the wrong parts.
Benchy... Shark! doot dooo doodoot toodoo
You win the comments section! 😂
Amazing as always !!
Awesome improvement!! Maybe you want to make a technical boletin
I'd be happy to write one. Where would I post it?
this was my first upgrade to my E5pro - thanks!
Did they change the default configuration on the ender 5 pro? I got mine a couple weeks ago and it doesn't have any issue with the bed falling. Weird, but nice!
@@GarrettBShaw Ender 5 Pro comes with 800mm lead screw but the video talks about 1600mm
I upgraded my Z Axis lead screw on my Ender 5 because I hated the way it would fall on its own, I use the TH3D online configurator because it works so well, under where it says ENDER5_NEW_LEADSCREW it says it sets it to 800/steps/mm. after flashing the new firmware I noticed my Z axis would only move half the distance when printing or in manual mode, I think its because my lead screw is a 1600steps/mm not a 800, its a T8 2 lead, 2 pitch with one start. I cant even find a replacement leadscrew on line thats a 800steps/mm for the Ender 5, seems like the TH3D firmware sets the Zsteps/mm to 400 and makes a terrible noise if you set it to 800 or 1600.
I haven't used their configurator. Luckily, it would be easy to change this in your own configuration or simply modify it after you flash the firmware.
I maybe have missed something. but how did you fix your extrusion / vibrating problem on your printer?. I followed your guide on linear rails and my prints look the same. Now on your megladon it looks like those issues are gone. Great work btw!
I think what you're referring to is answered in my silent board video. After I upgraded to linear rails, I upgraded to the silent board and it improved my print quality.
I went with a 2 start 4mm-lead screw and the bed doesn't drop, what a blessing.
Terrific! All the best!
@@kerseyfabs Thanks, and thank you for making this video, it explained things quite well and is what made me change my lead screw because I was tired of my bed dropping, but didn't really have the know-how.
Rem great! Can you post a link for the leadscrew?
No problem! Please check the description of the video. I have links to Amazon, ZYLtech, and Banggood, depending on who has them in stock and where you'd like to order them from. I'd post them direct but that's quite a bit of text to repeat!
Kersey Fabrications thank you. I was asking for the 4mm lead screw, but I just ordered it. Your videos are great! Thanks for sharing
Great video!! Love the improvement! I had to turn my dial to 1600 manually because i dont have a rasberry pie or a computer its connected too. I came up with taking my knob off and use a standard bit in my drill and i got to 1600 quick instead of turning it with your fingers!
i just added M92 1600 / M500 (in two lines) to my cura settings for a single print, then removed it from future prints and it stuck
Thanks Kris. This worked flawlessly. 👍
I'm glad it helped!
@@kerseyfabs I'm in the process of printing my second round of test prints, 0.08, 0.10, 0.12, 0.15, 0.16, 0.20, 0.24, 0.28, 0.30 and 0.32 layer heights to do comparisons between the old lead screw at the 0.04 resolution and the new 0.01 resolution. I'm tabulating the actual printing time between the two and I'll be taking microscopic images of the layers to try to see the improvements, if any. I've just started another round of 11.5 hours of printing the models.
Thank you. This worked perfectly.
What is the original lead screw (pitch, starts, lead) for Ender 5 plus from factory new? If I change the Z axis with this T8 POM Anti Backlash Nuts Tr8x2 for Lead 2mm Pitch 2mm (has 1 starts), do I have to change original Ender 5 plus lead screw with 1 starts also or I can use the on with factory?
The original Ender 5 Plus is 2mm pitch, 4mm lead. So if you go to a 2mm lead, you'd need a new screw.
Hello, I know this video is for the ender 5 but can you please answer a question on the ender 5 plus. I'm having an issue with the bed falling slightly on the left side. I have installed the pom anti backlash nuts you suggested, it's better but still moves slightly. Can you please post a link with a new lead screw for me to use on the 5plus. Thank You.
Have you made sure your bed brackets on each side are level? That shouldn't happen. I'd hate for you to upgrade if it doesn't need it.
@@kerseyfabs yes, I use digital calipers, it's only the left side. If I hold the screw and turn it to level it's good. When I let it go out moves down about 2-3 mm. Maybe the pom nut is bad/ out of spec? Thank you for your videos they are extremely helpful for us new guys.
hey man, this is a fantastic video but I was just wondering if you could help me out. I'm replacing my ender 3s1 leadscrew to a 2mm pitch 2mm lead / 1 start but im also using klipper which means I can only change the settings within klipper config files like Mainsale. Do you know how to config the klipper settings to compensate for the new type of screw? The official klipper instructions are very confusing...
I can't say I agree with much of your analysis of this "problem". The laws of physics aren't on your side. One of the virtues of the lead screw motion control system such as employed here is that it is nearly impossible for the traveling nut to back drive the lead screw. That seems to be what you're saying is happening. I'm very skeptical. Normally, a lead screw converts rotary motion (supplied by the motor) to linear motion which is the reaction of the traveling nut to the rotary motion supplied by the motor. In order for this motion conversion to occur the traveling nut must be prevented from rotating with the lead screw. In this case the traveling nut is attached to the Z axis platform so that the motion of the traveling nut becomes the motion of the platform. Back driving is exactly the opposite. Back driving is the conversion of linear motion to rotary motion. Back driving a leadscrew requires a tremendous amount of force being applied to the traveling nut. The only force being applied to the Ender 5 Z axis traveling nut is the weight of the bed plus any prints on the bed. I don't believe that's nearly enough force. A simple test would have been to try to manually force the bed to back drive the lead screw using your hand or by adding heavy objects to the bed with the printer unplugged. That won't work now that the printer is modified.
I would theorize that this bed falling you see is actually the printer "parking" the bed when the print is finished. I believe you said it only happened when the print was done. Think about it. It makes much more sense to me. The addition of AB nuts to any lead screw system is an improvement and changing the pitch may lead to better resolution but the falling bed could only be stopped by firmware settings IMHO. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leadscrew This wikipedia page describes back driving as "impossible". Impossible is not the word I'd use but close. Actually, I think the lead screw would bend or the nut would strip before back driving occurred. BTW, I disagree with using grease on this lead screw. It will only collect dirt. Try some silicone spray that dries to the touch or use Delrin nuts. That is what I'll do.
I'm actually really confused by your rebuttal. First of all, the article never even uses the word "impossible" anywhere. In fact, it gives both the equation for raising conditions and the equation for lowering conditions. The lowering conditions are reliant on the diameter of the screw, the lead, and the coefficient of friction (and of course the force being applied). If I wanted to disassemble the printer, I could actually do the math on this. My analysis though is that both the coefficient of friction is low enough and the lead is such that with the weight of the bed it lowers. I have proven this to be the case in two ways. 1) When you power off the printer, the bed falls. 2) When you disable the motors, the bed falls. I have then tested my remedy of this situation by replacing the lead screw with one with a more shallow lead and the bed no longer falls. My analysis has also been tested by numerous viewers of this video who have posted the same symptoms and that my solutions does in deed work for them. If "parking" was being performed by the printer's firmware, changing the lead screw would have no effects on the operation.
Keep in mind that a screw is simply an inclined plane wrapped helically around an axle. It has similar properties and the work it performs is heavily reliant on the slope of the plane.
@@kerseyfabs Well, I'm embarrassed to say that I made the classic mistake of making an assumption. My assumption was that you made a verbal error when saying the lead on the stock screws was 8mm. I've used a lot of lead screws in my career but I've never seen one with 4 starts. I must wonder if they are common in China. Anyway, I assumed it was a mistake because what manufacturer would use a screw that would yield .4mm resolution when they could use a screw yielding .1mm resolution. It appears that Creality really is that stupid. So, most of my rant was based upon that assumption and now I must eat my words.......sort of. After doing the math on a 8mm lead screw I agree that it can be back driven. That makes Creality double stupid. However, I will re-state emphatically that a PROPERLY DESIGNED lead screw will not back drive the screw. I did see the word "impossible in one of my research articles I just credited the wrong one. However, Wikipedia does say: "Most are self-locking (cannot be back-driven)". And they are correct. I still suggest using Delrin AB nuts. I've already ordered mine from Zyltech.
Just a couple questions. Some printers have the anti-back lash screw on the bottom of the plate while others (like my ender 5 S1) have it on the top of the plate. Does this really make any difference? would you be able to identify a part number for an ender 5 s1 anti-backlash nut. Thank you
Would it not be better to replace with a ball screw? BTW where are the links?
I'm a little late to the party but I'm gonna do this upgrade soon
Awesome!
@@kerseyfabs just ordered the parts through the link. Thanks for going over the e step adjustment. Did you do a calibration after to fine tune your Z? I've noticed mine is off and I kind of dialed it in but even on calibration cubes I get a little squish (I guess z banding - thicker layers) hoping this helps I just can't give up on my ender...
@@RandoTechNerd No problem. I'll leave that up to you. I've done both. These days I usually leave it at spec and dial my flow accordingly unless it's really bad.
@@kerseyfabs nice thank you I'll try the default and try a test print. I watched another video that kind of shat on back lash nuts. Has it worked out well for you?
@RandoTechNerd While some people say they don't do anything on printers, due to gravity, I think they can clean up some of the slop on the cheap screws. Either way, they certainly don't cause problems.
Amazing content as always!! Have you experienced any sort of rippling/banding in the Z axis? I've bought the exact same parts you've used, but when I switch from the stock one to the 2mm lead one, there's some consistent rippling along the Z axis, that follows the lead (ripples are 2mm apart)
I have not seen that on my printer. Are you using the stock mainboard or have you upgraded to a new board like the silent board?
@@kerseyfabs I'm using a SKR 1.3 and TMC2209. With the stock LS (400 steps/mm) it's ok, but as soon as I install the new LS (1600 steps/mm) the prints show rippling/banding.
m.imgur.com/a/msr0bYP
Cheers!
@@siwiskate Did you ever find a resolution to this? Myself and a couple of others are also experiencing this and can''t seem to find a resolution. Also, out of curiosity, who's firmware are you using?
@@Eythica I'm using Marlin 2.0... I wasn't able to fix it, so I went back to the stock leadscrew :(
@@siwiskate That is exactly what I had to do.
Looking very promising, Would it be good if I 3D printed the Anti Backlash screws and used the bed springs...?
I'm sorry. How would you print the screws?
@@kerseyfabs I saw there are already models for them on Thingiverse... maybe out of ABS...?
If I wanted to do it for fun, that's fine. I would never do it for a machine I wanted precise, long term motion from.
@@kerseyfabs Understood, THX for the reply :D
Thanks!
You're welcome! And thank you!
Is there a kit for converting an Ender 5 to dual z axis? Thanks
Did this upgrade and now I’m getting z binding. When the bed is about 5 inches from the nozzle it binds. Same with the very bottom.
Any ideas?
The only thing I can think of is that the nut needs to be realigned or your screw is bent. Try the nut first by loosening the screws holding it in place and seeing if it moved freely. If so, lower the bed all the way and then retighten the screws.
@@kerseyfabs the screw looks straight but could be bent. I’ve been getting a lot of crappy stuff from amazon lately.
Thanks for the help. Everything has been coming along. I did have to put longer belts and now the screw but that’s been the only real challenge. I think I may need another rail tho. One was hanging up a tiny bit. The manufacturer told me that will go away in a few times running it. The x axis is butter can’t even heat it move!
Keep up the good work I’ll let you know when I figure out the z problem
Took the screw out and rolled it and it seemed straight. Did what you recommended and it was still binding at the bottom and top.
Ran it up and down a few times and noticed the top of the screw was moving left and right a lot (wobbling). Put the old screw back in and it went all the way up and down no problem.
I think the screw may have a slight warp.
Ordering a new one.
Thanks again for your help!
Why not take it to the maximum Z resolution of 0.04? You can't compare it to the old lead screw, but the potential to get a really thin layer is the bigger deal to me.
That's a fun idea and I've been thinking of doing a separate video for something like that. There are martial/extrusion issues with going so small. I didn't want to introduce new issues in this video.
You might try 0.19 instead of 0.1 since that's so different
You're right. I could have tried something really odd. I don't think it would have changed the result much though.
@@kerseyfabs well I figured that generally nearer the edges you see more issues. 0.1 is right in the middle of two steps and 0.19 is near an edge. But you are right it probably makes little difference. BTW I really appreciated the tutorial on pitch vs starts as I really didn't understand it.
Thank you for this video. I finally made my decision to order a new rod.
Finally no falling bed when its done :-)
Glad I could help!
Will this work for my E5 Plus? Obviously with two of the screws. My biggest problem is the backlash and pain of getting my bed to level properly. I've done the bl touch mod to the firmware and that helped a bunch, but this with the additional accuracy would top it off.
This is great, wondering if a 4-lead would still be enough to not have it drop.
Thanks! I can say "probably" but I can't say for sure because I haven't tested it. The 5 Plus uses 4 lead lead screws but there are two of them.
@@kerseyfabs are you by chance going to test it sometime soon? Or would you say to just go for a 2mm lead?
I won't be testing it anytime soon. I just don't have the time unfortunately. Feel free to try it out and report back or just try the 2mm screw. Thanks!
Do the new versions of the Ender 5 Pro need this upgrade any longer?
I'm not sure. I don't have a "new" version. I've heard different reports.
I just installed the lead screw you recommended on my Ender 5, lubed it and it's making horrible squealing noises at different points. It seems to be the worst at the top 1/3rd of the screw, but it does it a bit further down intermittently. Any suggestions?
Ok I do not know how did you put new screws with the spring, so easily but my backlash screws are so bad made that I am unable to put them easily on the bar. I assume on the edge there is some rest of the metal sawdust or during the manufacture they were not so accourate, so I can not put it on the bar at all even I tried to push it with the solid force it did not help (I do not want to scratch the leading bars). So I discarded them and mybe one day I will try it again haha
I'm really sorry to hear that! Can you get the pieces on there individually without the spring?
@@kerseyfabs Hello. Nope I figured it out lol, I have ordered correct size but wrong "pitch"? I did not know there is something like this (well newbie here hehe) atleast I know this and next time I will be careful about that.
Does the math change if the 2208 Silent Board upgrade is done ?
No. The steps will be the same. In fact, I was using a silent board in this video.
Wont this lead screw slow my speed down by alot? considering that my current lead screw has 4 starts nd this only 1?
Please watch the video about adjusting the step per mm. Changing that setting will compensate for the difference in measurements.
Nice vid, I will do my (2) ender 5s
What about change the Flexible Shaft Coupling Connector Flexible Coupler for between motor shaft and lead screw joined?
Only anti backlash is not efficient with the original screw?
Kris, I was comparing my Ender 5 and Ender 5 Plus lead screws and it appears that Creality changed them. Do you still have your 5 Plus to check?
Yes they did. I believe they are 2 start, 4mm lead screws. I've ordered some replacement nuts for a future video, so I'll report back.
@@kerseyfabs thanks for checking
All three of these fit and work. I haven't completed testing to tell you my favorite:
POM, no anti-backlash: amzn.to/2qJ2Mkv
Brass, anti-backlash: amzn.to/2KSiPU5
POM, anti-backlash: amzn.to/2rlkQ4o
can you use the original m3 screws from the original lead screw and nut?
Yes. They should work.
Length for Ender 5 Plus? I know the 5+ doesn't suffer from this problem, but isn't there other advantages to the changed lead screw as well?
The Ender 5 Plus is already using 4mm lead screws, so going even shallower shouldn't make a huge difference. The screws on the Ender 5 Plus are about 47mm, so 50mm would work.
Is this Mod also viable for the ender 5 Plus? I saw your video where you used "2-Pack 3D Printer TR8x4 T8 POM Anti Backlash Nuts for Pitch 2mm Lead 4mm Acme Threaded Rod Eliminate" to stabilize bed jutter/shake w/o having to lube the thread, but it seems to me that finer vertical control would have the potential to produce smoother/finer results. (total n00b here so if this question is moronic feel free to put a pointy hat on and send me to stand in the corner)
You could do this on the 5 Plus to create an even finer pitch on your Z-axis. I haven't found it to be necessary though.
@@kerseyfabs Thanks
My ender 5 bed never falls... and its factory stock. Wonder why is mine different?
That's a great question. Maybe you have your end gcode setup correctly.
@@kerseyfabs I have a glass plate on mine and whenever the stepper loses power it drops like a rock. So anytime the printer is off it falls, I have to manually move the bed up when I repower and go to home the machine since it drops the z first when homing. I am going to try the lead screw in this video or use open builds anti backlash nut that uses a set screw to provide tension.
So i have fully installed the New Lead Screw, Changed the Zsteps to 1600 and Stored the Settings. In terms of Slicing it what do i change in terms of the settings? the line width?
You don't need to change anything in the slicer. It should work as normal.
top job ...
do you have another source for the anti backlash nut i have ordered a few and they are all incorrect
Did you try ZYLtech? People have reported those working. bit.ly/ZTT8Brass2 or bit.ly/ZTT8Derlin2 for just the nuts. Coupon KERSEYFABS for 15% off.
The math on your first white board doesn't make sense.
You have 200*16/2= 1600 AND 400
If I'm not mistaken one of your 2s is wrong
Ugh! You're absolutely right! The second 2 should be an eight! Thanks for catching that. Time to start a correction comment! No matter how many times I watch a video.... Thanks for catching it!
@@kerseyfabs Sorry I just realized I left just a criticism, otherwise I liked the video. :)
@@supastyles1 No problem at all! I appreciate it either way but I am glad you liked the video!
What is the size for the Ender 5 plus?. Thanks
350x350x400 (X Y Z)
I meant lead screw
But is the fix the lead screw, or is it actually the anti-backlash nut?
The lead screw is the actual fix. The nut is just a recommendation, not required.
@@kerseyfabs - I have an ender 3 pro that i converted to linear rails, and when I did, the x gantry is so heavynow that it free-falls when i turn the printer off (or when the print is done). :(
@@jsimmonstx This will probably fix your issue too. If you get the incline of the screw shallow enough, it shouldn't fall.
@@kerseyfabs BTW, can I use any 2mm pitch lead screw nut on a single start lead screw with a 2-mm pitch?
No. Pitch, lead, and number of starts are interdependent. It would also have to have the same lead.
i have the opposite problem. my bed doesnt drop at all
Very informative. Thank you for educating me, but I'm a tad confused.
My Ender 5 Pro has a lead of 4mm (OEM). If I understood correctly, I can change the lead screw and nut combo to a 2mm lead and it would greatly improve my prints. Correct? What would the new steps be for the stepper? Would you recommended going from a 4mm to a 2mm lead?
I don't actually think it greatly improves prints. It may improve them some but this was mainly about upgrading to fix the falling bed.
If you half the lead, you double the steps.
Could this have been with just the anti-backlash?
I don't know if I understand the question. The Ender 5 comes with an anti-backlash nut on the stock screw.
@@kerseyfabs Ah, I didn't think either of the E-5 machines came with anti backlash. I had seen one video that addressed the bed drop by adding anti backlash nuts.
Mine new ender 5 doesn't go down with any force - it is a newer version of the screw?
I've heard they may have switched to a 4mm lead. I haven't confirmed this myself. Thanks for the report.
@@kerseyfabs ok - so it is a new one - I measured after watching your vid and sure enough, the Z base was dropping 25mm instead of the 50mm on the LCD screen. Uploaded 800 versus the 400 that was there and hey presto, all sorted. It printed ok when I got it, but once I flashed the firmware, it reset 800 to 400 and ballsed up my print. All good now, so thank you for your great vid, Now a subscriber!!!!
@@noshdaminsk Awesome! I'm glad I could provide some useful info! Happy printing and thanks for the sub!
I prefer POM Nuts - they have also no backslash and need no extra lubrication.
I just discovered these and ordered some. I didn't get them in time for this video. I'll review them in a future video!
I'm not familiar with how to "console in" to my printer. Can someone show me a guide on how to do that?
a possible way is octoprint and then terminal/console, or any direct print tool that came with your printer
QQ. I assume all the Creatlity 1.1.5 boards are the same and its just the Firmware loaded that is the difference? I am having a strange issue with my Z axis , it appears all of my prints are squished and i am not sure how to fix it. Upgraded the Lead screw per vid and set up the FW but everything is still swished. Bad stepper motor?
That's correct. Check your firmware again and tell me the current Z steps.
@@kerseyfabs I thought i was losing my mind so i went back and re installed the original lead screw and i have the same issue. Steps are set to 400 . Here is the line from my FW Marlin 1.1.9 , 80, 80, 400, 93 (x,y,z,e). i am printing a 20 mm calibration cube i will send you a link when its done. Only way i could get it to finish was to cut my extrusion multiplier down to .8. With the 1.1.4 board and Creality FW it was fine. Put this 1.1.5 board in and flashed it to Marlin 1.1.9 and all of the issue started.
Cube finished , x and y are spot on 20 mm, Z is 10 mm, looks like exactly half. thoughts? I have tried with 3 different slicers same result, must be something in the FW.
@@jdpg265 Which firmware are you using? As in, whose configuration?
@@kerseyfabs Vanilla Marlin 1.1.9 with Teaching Tech's Ender 5 configuration (gumroad.com/l/eolzc)
Does anyone make a dual z kit for the ender 5...?
I'm not aware of a commercial one but I have seen some mods on Thingiverse.
Unfortunately Amazon lists this item as currently unavailable. Anyone had a link to equivalent part from some other supplier?
For anyone looking for a 2mm lead screw or nut and Amazon is sold out, ZYLtech has them in stock with brass or Derlin (type of plastic) anti-backlash nuts INCLUDED! Either one is $16.95 USD at time of writing. Choose the "0-500mm" option and under "Custom Length:" enter 400mm (for Ender 5). And as always, if you use code "KERSEYFABS" at checkout, you'll save 15% off your order.
Brass Nut: bit.ly/ZTT8Brass
Derlin Nut: bit.ly/ZTT8Derlin
15% Off: KERSEYFABS
Ordered! @@kerseyfabs thanks so much for finding this alternative! And thanks for your detailed videos. Greatly appreciated.
Well, I was obviously not meant to change out my lead screw. The Zyltech anti-backlash nut has a larger bolt pattern than the Creality Ender 5 nut and so it will not fit into the existing holes on the build plate frame. So $17 bucks spent to find out I cannot use it. "sad face." I've called them to see if they have a different size, but nowhere on their web site do they show sizes for bolt patterns on the anti-backlash nuts.
So I gave a try to your Banggood link. I'll not give up on this mod, yet.
@@S.A.S.H. I had someone else contact me about the ZYLtech issue and they said they called ZYLtech tech support and they had a smaller hole pattern available that they sent them a replacement for. See if you can do the same. Please let me know.
@@kerseyfabs Zyltech called me back yesterday and I ordered the correct flange size. Thanks for the help!
Would u use these on ur 5plus ?!
No. This shouldn't be necessary on the 5 Plus. It already has a steeper pitch.
Kersey Fabrications I see . My right lead screw has a wobble (maybe bent) I believe because Of shipping or w/e . Ill be getting those pom/ backlash nuts soon so I’ll try that first to see if that helps the wobble . the ender 5 + leads are like what 500mm?
Hi After the upgrade do you have to change the Z speed velocity and acceleration. As the steppers have to move 4 times faster to achieve the same Z speed before the upgrade. The default settings are 10 and 100 respectively which to me means setting these values to 2.5 and 25. to keep the Z stepper stepping ant the same rate i.e. steps per second. This of course means the the Z axis will actually move 4 times slower. 10mm/s equals 5 revolutions per second (2mm pitch) or 300rpm and the creality stepper motor is rated to 1000rpm. so moving 4 start lead screw means 4 x 300rpm i.e 1200rpm which exceeds the motor rating. Or is my thinking totally wrong
I changed to single start 2mm lead lead screws on my printer, not a Creality but that doesn’t matter, yes as well as changing steps from 400 to 1600/mm gad to change max feedrate for Z axis from default of 20 down to 7 in my skr mini v2 config as at the default feedrate just caused the stepper to miss steps
And the lead screw is out of stock on amazon...
For anyone looking for a 2mm lead screw or nut and Amazon is sold out, ZYLtech has them in stock with brass or Derlin (type of plastic) anti-backlash nuts INCLUDED! Either one is $16.95 USD at time of writing. Choose the "0-500mm" option and under "Custom Length:" enter 400mm (for Ender 5). And as always, if you use code "KERSEYFABS" at checkout, you'll save 15% off your order.
Brass Nut: bit.ly/ZTT8Brass
Derlin Nut: bit.ly/ZTT8Derlin
15% Off: KERSEYFABS
@@kerseyfabs Aaah, this is what I hate about living in Australia (we call it the Australia tax) - lead screw - around $15 - cheapest shipping options - USD 45. hmm, nope... Will poke around in china - they tend to have cheaper shipping options. Yup, checking aliexpress for lead screw - haven't looked at specifics yet - $10-15 and free shipping. Will post a pointer when I work out who has them.
@@pquodling Ahh! I can do Chinese too. Try these out:
Banggood Links:
T8 2mm Lead Screw (400mm Length): bit.ly/BGT82mm400mm
T8 2mm Lead Screw Nut: bit.ly/BGT82MMNUT
can i add the bmg clone trianglelab to my ender 5 ? not direct drive . do i need to make anyu change to fit ?
I don't see any reason why not. You may need to print a custom mount but that should be all.
I printed a tpu spacer ring and applyed a small amount or resistance between the stepper and the cuppler not moved in 6 months if your looking for a quick fix
Thanks for the tip!
dnbwalkera adam can you share the stl for the ring?
@@kerseyfabsno thank you for the videos. Though it might help a beginner out..
@@PedroMMFranco not got it anymore its literally a polo made the right diameter and thinkness any free cad can do stl
my bed keeps rising while printing.
Hmmm. What do you mean?
@@kerseyfabs I level the bed, paper is on the loose side, start the print, (a nice bead is started) half way through buggers start forming to where the extruder is bumping into them, so I stop the print check the level and have to turn the leveling knobs 1 1/2 turns before the paper will slide through. Ender 5 purchased 1 week ago.
You leveled all for corners before the print started? Preferably two times.
@@kerseyfabs yes, 4 corners 2 times, kinda stumped.
@@BC5391 How tight are your screws? They should be almost all the way down to stay tight.
found a use for that extra nut, a Z-axis knob - this is still my favorite E5 upgrade - thanks! www.thingiverse.com/thing:4174991
This is a great idea. I don't find I manually move the axis much, I usually go through the menu, but this makes it much more convenient.
Seems back wards to me!!!!!! the load / weight is sitting on the spring!!!! The load / Weight should be sitting on the threads!!!!!