RE: Silco's makeup - he's not wearing it when he's introduced. He's in his oceanic observatory, interrogating Deckard, and treating his eye. He's got no makeup. Nor does he have that makeup when he's in the factory, interrogating Vander or fighting against the kids. Silco starts wearing makeup after he adopts Jinx. He wears the makeup not to hide his weakness from his underlings, but to look less monstrous for his daughter.
“Validation is the masculine equivalent to professing love” reminded me of the line from Mulan where Shang, instead of telling Mulan how much he’s grown to love her over their adventure together simply says “You.. fight good”
I'm surprised you didn't mention that two men make the choice to become single fathers (to daughters, even). Nurturing and childcare are often seen as feminine, but these two characters easily "survived" parenting their daughters. Just the opening image of Vander, the burliest male character, dropping his weapons at the sight of crying children, and Silco very quickly switching from being a violent aggressor to embracing a crying girl --- they were both very strong choices to give to male characters.
@@davidlz830 there's a whole scene where Silco threatens Marcus's daughter, he shows up with two goons directly into Marcus's house and plays with his daughter, it's why Marcus makes the blockade at the bridge
14:37 Maybe needing validation is why Silco takes in Powder. If he can raise Vander's daughter better than Vander could, it would validate Silco to himself. Additionally, Silco never recieved validation from Vander, who was like a brother. So he empathizes with Powder, who is constantly seeking validation from Vi
@@schnee1 Also, it is really trivial for Silco to outdo Vander - Vander never says one line directly to powder at all in the entire show. He only has one or two lines directed at all the kids including Powder. The one chance he gets to show affection and concern for Powder he blows by realizing the bunny means Vi is in trouble and leaving Powder alone to turn himself in. In this way Vander's two interactions with Powder are carrying her on the bridge at the beginning and abandoning her for Vi. I know he isn't meant to seem neglectful and he certainly displays and mentions concern for Powder to Vi multiple times, but it is astonishing how little he actually interacts with the little girl.
@@ronhoward121 my read on that situation is that he tries but he doesn't get Powder. She is so different from him, and all the hard lessons he's learned in his life about leadership and thr burdens that come with it resonates much more strongly with Vi. So while he tries to be available and comforting to Powder, he doesn't know what she's thinking but he can basically mind read Vi.
“The stereotype of what guys want to hear from their fathers isn’t ‘I love you,’ it’s ‘I’m proud of you.” *not a father but makes a mental note to compliment the men in my life more often*
Don't even need to say it with words, just showing you enjoy hanging out with the bros can show you appreciate them. Really put in perspective why I always enjoyed the times I hanged with a friend and we'd just walk around the city, sometimes not saying a word for minutes.
@@GabrielShitposting Yeah, that’s my favorite way to hang out with people regardless (imma but socially awkward, lol) so it’s nice to hear other people can enjoy that just as much as words. Will do!
@@TaLila360 well love can be just as much 'for them' as it is 'for you'. Someone saying "i love you" could just as likely mean that they are attached to you because you serve a purpose to them. Men especially deal a lot with being seen and used as tools throughout their lives (especially when you consider how much capability takes center point to a sign of your masculinity) so when you're starved of that feeling of being worth something beyond how useful you are, hearing "I love you" can be hard to believe without there being some paranoia that it has some hints of "I need you" in it rather that "I want you for who you are" which would be more validating. This is why just sitting around shooting the shit with a bro tends to feel better than direct confessions of love (for those who aren't also starved of the latter). Like the video says: the thing the defines men's issues currently is a lack of validation.
I'd make the case that Viktor's stereotypically masculine trait, more than even sucking up emotions, was his refusal to ask for help. He's dying and he knows it, but it's only once he's absolutely critical will he tell his best friend. If Jayce had known about Viktor's condition sooner he would have worked day and night to find anything to help him.
Exactly all he needed to do was ask! But i think this is more of a cripple thing than a male thing. I almost NEVER ask for help when it is something not rivial. And even for the trivial stuff i had to work hard to break that habit. For example when i go shopping i would rather get up for my wheelchair cause myself PHYSICAL PAIN to reach a shelf instead of asking a bystander to grab the thing. I know it is wrong but i just keep doing it. and it depends on my mood i guess if aks for help instead of doing it myself. like I find if physically revolting to ask for help. I think it comes from a childhood of people treating you like an invalid someone made of glass that cant do anything on their own and will shatter at any moment.
@@aziouss2863 This just proves how profoundly Viktor was written without complete focusing on just his gender, and i like to think that there was focus on many other factors apart from just gender when it comes to all the male characters. Class, fears, loss, attachment issues, dreams, these all drive the men more than just what we'd imagine would be their stereotypical course of action. Also i do hope you find more ppl close to you that see you for who you really are and make you feel worthy despite the fact that you may need more help or accomodation than society is willing to give. You deserve to feel safe and valuable in asking for help, because we all have that right, and none of us can go through this life completely alone
Victor’s character arc reminds me HEAVILY of Walter White from Breaking Bad. •A dying Genius •Refusal for assistance •A decent into corruption Both characters seek to be their own solution as a remedy of their emasculation. Walter White is mocked by those around him, living a life of hardship, while witnessing the “what could’ve-been” in the form of Eliot & Gretchen Schwartz. Viktor is considered an outsider from Zaun, facing ailments that threaten his life, leaving him physically inadequate and struggling, all while having his intelligence being disregarded. In the end, they both desire redemption through glory at the cost of their former being, thus corruption (be it recognition for White or Viktor’s success in hextech). These men have been put down for so long that the only cure is to come out on top AND of their own volition, even if it means standing alone because there must be no dispute who got it done.
@@scarletmoon95 Thank you for your words and I assure you that you don't need to worry. Short of a gf i have everything. My professional life is mostly set with me currently doing a PhD in CS. I got friends I cherish and who don't treat me like I am any different. Like they are not afraid to make jokes or make fun of me. I want you to imagine the stereotypical male friendship where the harder you insult somebody the more you love them. These fuckers are also the first to help carry me in the beach so I can "swim". Society has also been very accommodating in general i was able to go to foreign country and thrive where i am currently doing my Phd :D
He never does ask for help. He invents the Hexcore all by himself and then presents it to Jayce, He discovered its reaction with plants himself and Shows it to Heimerdinger. When he goes to Singed, it is to tell him about the progress he made, indeed to discretely get his assistance, but He never mentions that He wants to use the shimmer on himself. He lies and says its for the plant, but Singed sees through that He isn't only unwilling to accept help, he desires acknowledgement and respect for the work he does by himself. He sees himself as weak and unworthy, and wants his inventions to take the spotlight. He wants his work to be loved and respected, because its close enough to him that he can feel the pride about it succeeding, but far enough from him as to not be tainted by his perceived impurity.
@@MohamedRamadan-qi4hl it is, but often - and I think that's what this comment's trying to say, a father is a "emasculated" in a lot of media, ex househusbands or soft fathers ect
i think viktor being disabled ties into the whole “suck it up” mentality as well, as disabled people tend to internalize a lot of their struggles because they’re already perceived as weak/lesser than in society. good video!
@@SmartCreeper I think it's not because he sees himself as weak. It's because it seems like everyone else does and I think that's what Viktor gets. He is "a crippled kid from the undercity". As a disabled scientist*, I agree with ari. It's not that we think we are weak. But we suck it up to prove everyone else wrong. We have to show that we are stronger and cleverer to be perceived as "worthy". And I also agree with you on the related part. Sometimes it's really hard to relate to people when you feel like they just won't understand you. Not fully. Even Jayce didn't get Viktor entirely. *yeah, basically female Viktor here, just not that brilliant.
That and being sickly as I am it makes your far more mentally strong especially when you repeatedly make it out of sickness episodes alive. Maybe he's not sucking it up, maybe like me he's just ignoring the normality of life and the emotional aspects and trying his best to use his short life to do something meaningful for those around him.
As a... I don't want to say, disabled, but I guess there's no other word for it. Because of a problem in my genetics, my joints are fucked up and movement hurts. It hurts constantly, everywhere. But because of "suck it up, be a man", I don't tell people about it much in person. I act like I'm fine when I'm barely able to walk that day. And it fucks me over when I need someone to help me with a problem they didn't know I had. If I had gone to a doctor when this first started, I may be okay today. But I didn't, I sucked it up. And now it gets worse every year.
Well, because men are considered higher in the hierarchy. So if you’re immaculated, you “fall” to the level of a woman. Women have nowhere to fall in adult people hierarchy, so they’re just dehumanised or pushed to the level of little children
It makes pefect sense because women do have masculine hormones yet men are not supposed to have them, and their impact in the mindset and behavior is strong and relevant. It's ok for women to be more masculine or from time to time and testosterone will be working there and it's natural, but getting that feminine-hormonal side in behavior for men is not so common, perhaps not even natural, and breaks the masculine normalcy, so to speak.
that line got me thinking, too, and it makes sense. femininity IS seen as the lowest point you can be in a patriarchy. if you're purely feminine, you're hardly a person. you can't go lower than "rock bottom." so (in the lens of a patriarchal setting) you can't be "stripped" of your feminity because there's nothing else to "lose." ... or maybe i'm thinking too much into it. i dunno! edit: JUST IN CASE i want to specify i'm NOT sharing my opinion on femininity lol. if not obvious from my pfp i'm very feminine myself, nothing wrong with it !!
as a girl speaking, i love how everyone in this show gets to be badass in their own way. men and women can be badass without undermining each other. the women can fight well without needing the men to be weak so the writer can push a message about how superior women are. the men get to be badass without women needing to be damsels in distress so men can seem more badass.
I actually really find the "local cuisine" character interesting. He doesn't even have any lines, but he has some interesting implications to me. He is using some very feminine qualities to his advantage, he's thin, and kinda soft looking to me, he is using his presentation and sex appeal to get things. Ambessa is very powerful in multiple ways and likely is getting the best of what Piltover has to offer for any given thing she wants. That to me says he is likely pretty expensive. So while Mr. Meal is showing very feminine qualities and using feminine qualities, he is likely getting something that men are usually shown wanting, status and wealth. Look at Ambessa and tell me being her favorite boy toy does not instantly give you power just from association. And just from some lines that Mel says, it is implied that Ambessa also has filthy money that Man Candy is now being given for his services. So it has depth of presentation of men even in a side character we barely see.
it's a lowkey double standard, when women are sex symbols they get elevated in society and become the leaders but when men are sex symbols, they are the local cuisine
I know this is off topic but I would love to hear other peoples' thoughts on this. I think "Mr Meal" is a spy. He can be seen in the brothel scene in Zaun, wearing a mask. The camera lingers on him in a way that would be weird if he only were a random pleasure boy. I believe there is more to him especially since it is implied by the brothel owner that information is tossed around at that place, when she talks about Silco's second in command (Zevika) going there regularly and offers to gather information from her for Vi. He might simply be Ambessa's inside man in Zaun/Piltover. Or maybe someone in Zaun is interested in what Amessa is up to.
Great thing about how men and women were portrayed in arcane is that they’re all capable in some way or another. No gender triumphs over the other as if they’re more superior. For example, with the jinx and ekko fight, we know that both characters are smart, they have their own way of fighting, and we generally see them as equals. When ekko beats jinx up and completely manhandles her, it doesn’t make us squirm. At least in my experience, I didn’t. I’m a girl and in most media, you just feel an overwhelming difference in power with men and women so seeing a girl get totally wrecked in a fight makes me feel queasy. With ekko and jinx, however, we feel as though they are on even grounds so whoever wins, it’s because of their ability and them as a character, not because of their gender. Pretty cool.
remember the first fire light scene, where Jinx pretty much triumphs over the fire lights? Well, she didnt protect all that stuff as she should have done, but she hit their butts pretty hard.
Validation is even a theme for jinx. She's the youngest so when we see powder do the things the older kids tell her to do there is never any compliments or congratulations. It's expected of her to just do the tasks like everyone else. I noticed Vander is so compassionate and complimentary and guides the older children. They forget that voice that guidance is what got them through their fearful moments and allowed them to get to where they are. Powder was expected to just catch up to them. Vi is the only one you see compliment and congratulate her but since she's the only one her betrayal is even more painful. The only person who believes in you says you are a failure
And not only does nobody validate her, she even hears Milo constantly invalidating her - calling her a jinx, saying she can't do anything, saying she's not as good as her sister was etc. Vi was the only person that gave her validation. Vander may have validated her 'off screen' since he was a very caring father figure, we don't know that but let's assume he did. And then Vander died and Vi seemingly abandoned her after repeating Milo's words and she was adopted by a man who immediately validated her ('We will show them all'). No wonder Jinx and Silco had such a strong bond
Powder in general gives Silco a way to be emotional. He sees her as a young version of himself equally wronged by society. Where Silco fought bitterly against Vanders betrayal and it permanently turned him colder and more distant, Vi's betrayal to Powder made her cry and run into Silco's arms. She reacted to crisis with emotional instability and vulnerability, which was probably a huge shock to Silco. He saw the raw emotions he felt being displayed outwardly and felt the protective and simultaneously vengeful urge to push that to it's max. This pairs pretty well with the father-daughter bond archetype, where one is cold and the other isnt, but it embodies it in a whole new way by having the composed and intelligent father be the clear-cut villain, and the unstable emotional daughter being both the villain and the victim.
In a lot of ways, to your point, Jinx represents Silcos inner demons and as an avatar for expressing his rage against the world. He accepts his inner demons (and Jinx) completely but naturally relies on a very calm and collected approach. Jinx is able to serve many roles for Silco as a daughter, as an apprentice type that he can pass the torch to, as an avatar for expressing the chaos inside of him. It is definitely an interesting dynamic with the appropriate conclusion..
saying vi betrayed powder is taking it too far.But no doubt she played a part in powder ending up in silco's arm unknowingly. Villain is a hero from villian point of view.
@@JakeBananas being an elder sister she wanted to protect powder.also how is it a betrayal when powder herself is the one who wanted the validation of which vi is totally unaware of.
I felt like Caitlyn's dad held a fairly strong "homemaker" role, his wife was a prominent and active political leader, and the scenes with him he often defers directly to her. While not overtly feminine he seems farther down the masculine scale despite an incredible beard.
@@ma_de_sa5848 "homemaker" isn't generally a masculine role, so yeah he's atypical of what would be considered a strong male. He's the one removing shrapnel from Cait (nursing and caretaking are also seen as feminine traits) and most likely isn't the one who taught her to shoot (her mother is the one with a rifle kicking in the door to their daughter's room). None of this has any bearing on his presence as a caring and skilled father, only that his wife is the one presented as the more masculine and authoritative of the two.
@@skyefox so if a navy seal removes shrapnel from his brothers leg &patches him up does that make them "feminine"? LMAOOO do u ppl even hear yourselves??
As a women I've told another female friend, "I'm so proud of you." We were just sitting in the car after something and then she broke down crying. I said "ahhh shit I'm sorry..." (I don't know how to act sometimes and I acknowledge that irl) and she told me "no, no, you're fine. It just reminded me of my dad, and how I'll never etc.." I'm a pretty masculine woman so I feel like we all know this subconsciously. Like if Mel's mother said "I'm so proud of you, I didn't see it before but I do now." That would be huge and probably hit us all harder than "I love you Mel." Because we can see the love in how protective she is, how she reached out to try to give her daughter advice but she is a masculine woman. (Please correct me if she already said that shes proud bc I need to watch it all for the 3rd time)
Go take it tumblr this is a male site made by men for men we love men here who have higher suicde rates then women and actually need to help and support from media yall dont need a main character role for cooking food we risk out shit for your sake to live here the least you can do is give us the driver seat or leave man make your own country made of women for women cause this country this platfrom and the whole concept of media was made to inspire men to bd strong.
You people lie and act like women are so vulnerable and say men shouldnt say rude stuff to them cause they are more emotional meanwhile male suicde rates are way higher then female. Out of your ego and men having a reason to live and keep our country going i gotta say i always liked zuko more anyway. Theirs a place for your foolish charater but its kotaras place not koras to start off unable to accept your role in society is a real thing and to slowly grow to become your true potential your true purpose as a female human a side character. You are so offended by something that is true their isnt a korra in real life that out preform3d men the richest women divorced jeff bezos for her money
You probably laughed at the jeff bezo line tell me again how we need to be more kind to women who seem to be more self centered and greedy for shit they had no hand in making, yall were happy to not help when we were gqetting electricity charged to death naking the technology its a good thing you think you deserve it once we make it
i was kinda lost and then you described how validation plays a role in the representation of men and then it clicked. as a girl who loves to create stories, i’m just now realizing how important it is to gain a new perspective. yeah, the women video was great and perfectly embodied a lot of feelings i associate with feminism that i had yet to consciously understand, but i’m now realizing what an immense lack of perspective i have on men. the saying that goes along the lines of “just write women as people” is important, but it doesn’t always apply. your take was phenomenal and eye-opening-men and woman do share different struggles based on societal norms of both masculinity and femininity, and therefor can be addressed in a story in a very empowering way if done right. the stories i have been creating sofar in my life have been VERY reliant on a female perspective. yes, this is because it connects to me more as a female, but seeing it now, it was the easy way out. writers that only stick to their one perspective in life probably won’t get very far in terms of characters. of course, this is because a writer will likely run the risk of not having very diverse characters or that they won’t be very deep, considering that they’re all just the embodiment of the writers lone perspective. this idea also kind of relates to writing characters that embody tropes because it’s the easy way out of seeing a new perspective. you take a stereotypical character that’s about as shallow as a puddle and then input them into a story with no explanation for these traits or experiences to back it up. coming to this new conclusion about how character’s experiences affect who they are seems to be a really effective tool to create characters. sure, it’s obvious, but for some reason it can be difficult to include in the character creation process mostly because it feels intimidatingly complex. i’ll still have to do some trial and error with this concept so i can dumb it down enough for myself, but otherwise this is very helpful. i adore all the insight these videos give :)
Best of luck to you fellow writer, there seems to be a lot of us in these comments and I was taking all the notes in this and the female video. If you wanted a place to start on learning male character building, from my own experience brotherhood would be the easiest but most impactful thing to get nailed down before tackling the rest of the points brought up in this video.
Glad you've found the videos helpful! Hope you can find a balance that suits you! I think women's perspectives on men and vice versa can be valuable and make for good writing as well. Although obviously expanding perspectives can only be a good thing. Best of luck in your writing!
as a fellow not-man writer who was raised as a girl I relate to you a lot on this, I've always struggled writing male characters bc I had no idea how men really *worked.* like I didn't (and kinda still don't atm) have any positive/close relationships with men, and to dig myself into a bit of a deeper hole I'm a lesbian and have had negative experiences with a handful of men in my life, particularly my father (as well as socialization from my mother, telling me to "stay away from men because they're dangerous"). So naturally I'd be a bit more bitter towards men, and even now I tend to push them away as a defense mechanism (still working on improving :'>). But yeah-I've noticed I struggle writing men over women (the men in my story used to be too "feminine" and something felt off, at the moment I didn't know what) and this video was so incredibly insightful (I could also start rambling about my gender and how I think that affects the way I am in regards to society's typical roles but that's going to make this comment reaaal long-I am non-binary if you haven't guessed, specifically genderfluid)
Literally same, when he started talking about the importance of validation between men, I felt like I had to start taking notes because this was exactly what I was looking for with regards to my writing.
I'm glad some women are taking useful things from this video. There seems to be a tendency in feminist spaces to write men to be so stereotypically evil that they're caricatures. Or so feminine that they're just stand ins for negative stereotypes about women. I was one of the people who said "write women like people" in a more proverbial sense. What I actually meant was "write women without stereotype" and I think the same applies to men. Sure our traditional role is the "protector" but that takes a lot of different forms, and one of our unique struggles is accepting our way of doing so, or feeling like failures if we can't or don't want to. I think Arcane does this spectacularly with Viktor. Viktor wants to protect his people of the undercity, through using his newfound privilege, and when he realises he'll die before hextech reaches the mines, he feels like he's failed and pushes himself to the extreme, and we see later after that doesn't work the path many men go down: self destruction. Many men would rather die than face the shame than failing those they felt responsible for. But what arcane does really well is explore how Viktor doesn't want to beat up everyone in Piltover for making the undercity the mess it is, he wants to build everyone up, and he needs to be reminded that he has built people up to stop him taking his own life. He built everyone else up but was tearing himself down in the process, and it's only when he starts to lift himself up alongside others that he starts to heal. It's just one example, but it's a good example of how male characters shouldn't be written as evil monsters who only want to hurt and boss around women, but characters free from stereotype; maybe evoking gender expression for their themes, but owning their themes uniquely without relying on said expression.
The "men express love through validation"-thing hit me deep. I've been struggling with the fact that I'm too embarrassed to tell my closest group of friends that I love them. I never thought I'd have movie-tier best friends, but these guys are really some of my favourite people in the world. And we sometimes say something to that extent, but I'm always embarrassed when things go in that direction, even though I don't want to be. In many ways I'm a pretty feminine guy, and as such I think I value directly telling people I care about them more than guys usually do. But despite this, this video made me realise that I already tell my friends that I love them in all these other ways you described. I never hesitate to compliment and validate them whenever I can. We spend lots of quality time together, having a drink when we get to meet up in person, playing videogames when not, or just hanging out in the voice chat (because I'm currently living in a different city). And I do feel this deep bond when we do that. I still wish I wasn't so damn embarrassed to just say it with words, but this does make me feel a lot better about myself, 'cause it turns out I've been saying "I love you guys" all along, I just didn't know it. EDIT: I did it, guys! Told my friends I love ‘em, and it felt amazing. Gotta thank some of the comments here, especially the one saying I’d regret it if I don’t say it out loud. That one stuck in my head ‘till I couldn’t take it anymore. And I’m glad it did.
Okay alternate reality me, I’m just going to continue talking with my friends on discord and playing a game with them from a different city while I pretend like you didn’t just stroll right past my defences and whispered a summary of my emotional state directly into my soul 😳
Despite troubles with self-esteem (much more so when I was younger), I've always had the resolve to be myself and do what I think is right regardless of external pressure, and so I've thankfully never been afraid to tell my closest friends that I love them. Back in my school days I was a little embarassed by it, but it only felt truthful to say that I loved my friends, and so I did. I do so sparingly, as I prefer to not wear out my words, but by now I'm unafraid to say it when I feel the time is right. I'm more of a masculine man myself, but I like to set the example that men can be openly caring and still feel comfortable in their manhood, and do away with the idea that it's "gay" or "girly". There should be nothing strange about letting those closest to you know that you love them from time to time.
"What men want to hear from their fathers isn't 'I love you' it's 'I'm proud of you'" is a line that is so true it made me cry. Thank you for this. Amazing video!!
Meanwhile, women need compassion, not validation. They don't really care if they're the strongest or not, they need compassion stuff. I see it right from my mother
Bingo! "Arcane shows men surviving emasculating moments," was part of the beauty of the show to me. It reminds me of a quote that read something like, "Being weak is not to be shamed, but staying weak is the problem."
One of my favourite things about how Jayce is written is how unapologetic he is about his emotions. He's very emotionally expressive and very in touch with his emotions (not always with those of others' but that's a whole different topic). He freely expresses both positive and negative emotions and isn't emasculated or punished for it. He's extremely physically affectionate with his loved ones regardless of gender and it's never questioned or ridiculed in-universe. Traditionally the only emotion men are allowed to express is anger, which is then either brushed off as "boys will be boys" or critiqued. And I love especially how this quality comes into play in his relationship with Mel who spends most of the show as emotionally closed off but for some brief moments slipping here and there. She is initially caught off guard by his vulnerability and openness in ep. 6 but then she encourages it in the next episode, she goes into his space when he's working off his frustration and encourages him to speak about his feelings. And she starts sharing in return and opening herself to the possibility of being vulnerable and in touch with her emotions. In the last episode you see her channel all of her hurt, anger and sorrow in the confrontation with her mother, who immediately chastises her for it: "I taught you better." This open display of emotion is clearly Jayce's influence. Furthermore he's a character whose closest personal relationships are mostly with women. His best friend is Caitlyn and the show implies their relationship is much closer than even that between him and Viktor, which gets way more screentime. He loves his mother. He loves and admires Mel and comes to value her opinion over anyone else's: "You were right. You were always right." and validates her at every turn. Hell, even the sex scene with Mel positions him as a giver, caring more about Mel's pleasure than his own. And there is a begrudging respect for Vi even though their interaction don't start or end with the two of them on the best of terms. Man drinks his respect women juice for breakfast, lunch and dinner.
@@grinko1222 not really, hes a very well written character and doesnt exactly have many women 'emotionally dumping' on him in any time of this show, its just being in a relationship and opening up to people lol
@@grinko1222 He only has one scene where he has a woman emotionally dumps on him and that’s with Mel. Y’know, his partner. The one that he rested on the lap of and vented to. Because that’s what you do in healthy relationships. You talk to each other and let your feelings be known. He opens up to her and she opens up to him.
@@lyntonfleming This analogy speaks to something true in about the most grossly wrong way possible. Adults and children aren't different because of how society treats the two differently, nor are they different because of subtle, poorly understood psychological differences, they're different because of the massive gap in physical size, life experience, and brain development. If I were to take your analogy further, I could say "you don't write women like men because you don't write humans like animals", which, when said out loud, is obviously wrong.
@@nef36 ah yes. I mention age and suddenly I'm comparing one gender to animals. Absolute madlad. Those mental gymnastics must have broken every bone in your body.
@@lyntonfleming Don't put words in my mouth. I gave you an absurd metaphor on purpose to show you that your metaphor, while not as stupid as my "stupid on purpose" metaphor, was, in fact, stupid. The fact that you ignored my first paragraph and I had to explain the second paragraph to you should speak volumes of your ability to participate in discussions like this, but I digress.
As someone who got the "suck it up" and "deal with it" too many times to count, Victor is a very relatable character for me. About two years ago my mother was diagnosed with brain cancer. It was a nightmare to see her in this state. My aunts and grandparents from her side helped her a lot, but always complained that we (me, my brothers and father) don't do enough even though we live with her and do help however we can. Because I was told to suck it up so many times, I ended up not crying at my mom's funeral when it finally happened and to this day I'm unable to shed tears. Now here is the kicker: when I complained and asked for mental help in dealing with the situation or wanted to do something for myself to help my mental state, just to talk with someone and release some stress, I always got: "This is not the time, we need you here doing X" or as the video says: "suck it up". My mom is literally dying from cancer, and I'm told to "deal with it". This is the extreme part, but it always was like that. For example: a relative will tell a joke about me and embarrass me in front of everyone, I complained, and told to suck it up. However, if I sucked it up, the embarrassment will continue and get more extreme. "What is a man if he can't joke about himself?". Because I got told "suck it up" so many time, I usually work alone and don't complain when something bad happens. "Suck it up" is a curse on us men.
@@tonystonem9614 my mom passed away a year ago. Also, I'm not saying this doesn't happen to woman too. I even know a woman who had to deal with an unfourtunate event and had to suck it up.
@@FrostedMike that sounds terrible your poor mum my grandfather had a stroke then died after a bit and he was getting names mixed up calling me my mum's name and my brothers my uncles
I also love the fact that Silco despite everything genuinely loves and protects Jinx and it's so often that I see villain male characters casting aside or using female characters as shields or abandoning them because god forbid he lets a woman get in the way of his goal. But Silco literally gave up undercity's independence as not to betray Jinx, even after she killed him he wasn't angry at her. Meanwhile when you see archetypes like Joker and Harley Quinn, Harley will always be used and disregarded by Joker. Whilst both archetypes are valid and show different kinds of personalities I see the latter far more often
mostly because there is nothing more loyal than either a lover or a daughter. Sons can usurp fathers, but it's assumed that the loyalty when the gender is reversed is irrevocable. So the villain casting it aside and disrespecting her is supposed to make him seem vile, villainous and repulsive!
@@coleeckert6182 no, the opposite. He's cursing his weakness because he was offered everything he wanted and couldn't bear to give up Jinx for it. He was so proud of seeing himself as a mastermind and moving pawns, but when Jayce said "Give up Jinx. She has to face her crimes. She was the head of everything we were stopping." He couldn't argue otherwise.. and he couldn't stop him. He just... knew then and there that the deal would never work. He was drinking with vander because he finally understood why Vander died for Vi and Powder and Milo and Claggor. He was drinking to lament how "It was ridiculous how easy it would be. Everything I ever wanted! The boy *didn't even bargain.* " which is a recurring theme when everything goes wrong, when a Piltie trades with a Zaunite and doesn't even bargain. He couldn't stomach giving Jinx up. Jinx just only caught half of the conversation. Hence why he said "children unmake us all" and she was like >:(
“Validation is the masculine equivalent to professing love” is so true it scares me. When I was young and just coming to terms with being a gay man I got careless and my father found out, he took me aside and told me he loved me, and it felt so good, but later in that same day right before bed he pulled me aside again and said, "I will always love you, but I will never approve of you." and that love he was expressing went completely hollow, it was like love wasn't what I wanted from him at all and what I did want I know I'd never have. Since that moment I still can't look at him in the same way, its a permanent scar in my image of him and it's impossible to talk to him without it in my head. Validation is important, never be afraid to tell your friends and your family that you are proud of them.
I have the same experience coming out to my mother (single parent) as queer. So I know validation is something women or any human wants too, but I still just wonder why men CRAVE it so much more than women do.
@@azukib2230 I feel like it has a lot to do with the "be a man, do your job" mentality that most if not all men grew up with, when everyone, including yourself, sees you as a summation of all that you've done, the compliment that hits the deepest will inevitably be a validation, because it means all of the hardship you've endured thus far are seen and appreciated by someone, while "I love you" on the other hand feels more one-dimensional, for lack of a better word, where it doesn't really feel like a compliment to you as a whole, it's more like something you've done in the past made them feel this way
@@jerrywong9379 As a woman, I think this is a great take. Validation and love are two very different things, and considering the difference between how men and women are treated, valued, and commonly neglected nowadays, it makes sense that men would naturally find a sense of relief after hearing "I'm proud of you" in our society. I'm just one person, but I'd rather hear "I'm proud of you," to be honest, even as a woman. It's based on individual needs and worries, in my opinion. It reminds me of the "stereotypical strict Asian parents" who never show any validation for their child's hard work. Talk to a few female and male kids who lived under a family structure like that and I'm sure you'll hear a similar relief from both genders when their parents express validation for the first time. These are just my thoughts as a woman though! I just find it a littttle hard to believe that men are intrinsically wired to like expressions of validation more than love. They're not replacements for each other after all, so I think it just comes down to what men are commonly afraid of or judged for in our current society.
@@azukib2230 often times its because men are just expected to do the thing without any form of compliment because that is also seen as feminine. receiving compliments is considered feminine in society, validation, love, anything emotional is seen as emasculating. as men we're not supposed to outwardly want love or validation, but we crave it so fervently because humans need it, and that craving gets more intense the less you get it.
@@Bengybug Dang that sounds tough. I can relate to the feeling of lacking and craving a fundamental human need for most of your life, it really eats at you. I am just remembering how often my feminine peers and mentors would compliment me and each other growing up. Occasionally I do notice that in the masculine groups as well but I guess it doesn't happen nearly as often as it needs.
Adding on to the whole point of "Validation is essentially the male version of love." I believe that this mainly comes from the idea that, as men, a lot of our worth as people (self, interpersonal, and societal) is tied to how much we can provide. Love is culturally seen as a powerful, but "unearned" alternative to validation. For example, most parents will love their children dearly no matter what they can "provide" because it doesn't have to be earned. And while this is obviously very good for the child's mental health, it can also lead to them stressing over "making themselves useful" in order to not feel like a burden, especially if they're male. This also applies to most other examples of love towards men as well. So, from a male perspective, if someone says "I love you," it can feel hollow and painful because we feel like we're taking something away from that person due to its relatively unconditional nature. However, if someone validates us through phrases like "I'm proud of you," it reinforces our belief that we are useful to others, and thus *worthy* of love. Anyways, let me do some validation of my own for a second. Amazing video as always, absolutely love how thorough and thoughtful your analyses are, and I can't wait for season 2 of Arcane!
I feel like a lot of these issues are remenants of past societal standards, like women having to find a man by age 25 and have kids despte women being now independent, overpopulation being a thing, and many women also being queer. Men dont have to put food on the table, but our societal view havent adapted to our modern day standards yet, so we have men who are conditioned to believe their sense of worth is tied to work outside of the household (vs women who are forced to believe they must provide within the household) which leads to men who are afraid to be reliant on others/ men who overcompensate to fit into these traditionally masculine roles which winds up hurting them and those around them (ie toxic masculinity).
@@eattheasslikeitsgrass5113 Except women are the ones that reinforce and reward traditionally masculine traits. A man has to be able to provide and prove competency if he has any value in society, whereas women dont require either as the baseline ability to give birth instantly gives them some level of value. Sure a man can be incompetent and provide nothing to society, but that man will be shamed and villianized for it. We live in a society where men are expected to provide. Nothing will change this anytime soon.
Very well said! That makes perfect sense and helped me understand men better. As I woman, I would always rather hear "I love you" than "I'm proud of you", so your experience really surprised me, but the way you explained it I could understand the thoughts and feelings behind it. Thank you!
@@eattheasslikeitsgrass5113 These are more than social standards honestly they are partially biological standards. And quite frankly a lot of men's value is still derived based on what they can provide where as women are usually seen as having a more inherent value. Not just due to society though, these values are deeply engrained biological facets that have been around basically as long as humans so I don't see them going away. Maybe as technology improves.
The bit about validation hits me hard personally only time I cried in the last 6 years was from just a text from my dad when I was going through a tough time was “whatever happens I’m proud of you”
Conclusion: they successfully subverted gender tropes and expectations for both men and women, respecting the difference in paradigm between the way we have culturally portrayed the two genders. Arcane just keeps getting more and more genius
Is there any other series that's on the level of Arcane? I've watched countless other series people claim to be 'masterpeices' and none of them stick with me like Arcane does, and none of them are this profound and deep and thoughtful. Jeez, Arcane really raised the bar on everything.
I love your analysis of how arcane writes men, but I think you forgot to mention a very important part, that seeking and giving validation or love, isn't something inherently bound to gender, but the characters themselves. For example, when you mentioned how jinx or other female characters seek love, protection etc, you forgot to mention how they also seek validation, for example jinx is looking for validation and respect from sevika just like mel is seeking it from her mother, just like how Ekko is seeking for Powder's love/past friendship or Vander is protecting his family instead of just seeking validation. So while love and validation can be a recurring theme for women and men respectively, they aren't really something solely based on gender, but rather characters and the expectations society put on them, because ultimately our current perception of gender and prooving who we are is honestly just based around society's expectations of us and Arcane showcases this very well with how society is structured and how inferiority or superiority plays a part in who they are. Vi per say tries to be this strong and impulsive person who doesn't show weakness specifically because of the sense of inferiority put on her shoulders by Piltover where as Jayce isn't afraid of showing vulnerability or his idealism because he doesn't have that weight on his shoulders, Piltover never gives him the burden of having to be a scientist, it's his choice alone lead by his determination. Anyway, this is just an opinion I wanted to share. Amazing video as always Edit: omg thank you all for the likes! 😀
I hear, good point. Maybe a more precise take than what I expressed in the video would be that there's a need for validation in children from their parents that more often persists in that form for men in their relationships. But you're right that it still finds expression in women in the child-parent context. I don't think Jinx seeks validation from Sevika, but she does from her father, and Mel does from her mother, which goes back to that same childhood need from her past. The idea of fatherhood I haven't developed as much (and also couldn't find a good place to talk about in the video) is this "responsibility" idea that Vander, Silco, and Vi all deal with when it comes to taking on the burdens caused by their children. I think its implied with Ekko's relationship with his community too. Very different from Arcane's motif of fierce and physical protection with its mothers. I gotta think about it more, but I think there's another big idea there.
I'd argue that the motivations of validation vs. love may not be inherently bound to gender, but can and likely should be used as a general rule of thumb for writing to a specific gender (if you wish to accurately portray real life and resonate with the majority of audiences). There are exceptions to this in the show and in real life, as it is and should be. But it should be known by the writers that for a character like Vi for example, mainly men as opposed to women will relate to and resonant with her because of her masculine traits. Far more readily in contrast to a Caitlyn type of character, which I'd imagine women would be able to resonate/relate with more readily. Knowing what audience you are writing to is 70% of the battle. This is mainly a show for men/boys. The demographics clearly skews in this direction. Which is why i'd argue most if not all of these characters exhibit some form of masculinity and why there are no "femboy" characters and a very low number of purely feminine characters.
@@JakeBananas Great points, though I would say because it’s a TV show marketed *separately* from LoL, the writers knew the demographic would broaden, thus the emphasis on story over sex appeal. (Though many male characters in League are objectified with the intention of appealing to a female audience.)
I usually get deeply attached to either the emotionally suppressed yet traumatized male character and the more emotionally open and kind male character in media. I don't actually know how often their portrayals are accurate to real life. However, the way you explained the balance of my two favorite characters (Viktor and Jayce) shows that these are definitely my favorite tropes but mixed in a sense. Jayce visually and physically feels more masculine yet is a lot more emotionally open and thirsty for attention and validation, to the point that his decision-making is very hindered bc he's always dependent on what others think of him. Viktor is perceived as more physically feminine in the fandom, perhaps due to his illness and disability, but also because of his soft-spoken, quiet demeanor, even if he's far more detached from people and emotions in general. Hell, when Jayce was *about to cry while struggling to tell Viktor he was going to die,* Viktor is only numb and resigned when he asks how much time he has. And yet, the more emotional man in this show doesn't cry (he comes close twice), but the more repressed and insecurely attached one does. As you can see, i love these two men and how they were written very much. I also really appreciated learning about how men express care and love, what they need emotionally and how they perceive their relationships. Validation and empathy are two of the most important qualities in my life, so it's wonderful to hear that it's an important way to allowing a man to feel loved and understood, as well as the way that they can communicate love and understanding. I feel like I just found a bridge to understanding men a little better
I appreciate that Arcane doesn't mark femininity as weakness, but rather as power in a different form, and we can see that with characters like Mel. Men in Arcane aren't shamed or ridiculed by the story's narrative for being emasculated, because being less masculine isn't equated to being less strong or less valuable. Both masculinity and femininity are valuable in their own rights, and I think Arcane does a good job of expressing that. I also think one thing to consider would be that the concepts of "masculinity" and "femininity" might not exist in the world of Piltover and Zaun. Those are categories that developed due to our association of certain traits and behaviors with certain genders, but since Arcane takes place in a world "free from stigmatization," as Overton puts it, characters in that world wouldn't tie emotional vulnerability or a muscular physique to a specific gender - those things would simply exist as they are. Because of that, I think it's safe to say that no man in Arcane would be ashamed of losing to a woman, or of being saved by a woman. Since they don't associate submissiveness and physical weakness with the opposite gender, they would not perceive those events as belittling to their own power and strength as a person. Awesome video! I love your analyses.
@@DTreatz fantasy exists in real life in this sense too . Because when you are used to something in your culture or country other places will seem like fantasy to you. Take for example two individuals I'd assume you are European or american and I am from Northern Africa. In my country women or mother and aunts are less affectionate and more violent towards their kids it's like though love but without the love part because they are just plain sadistic bullies most times. mean while the males In families are less violent and more nice to kids like in a public transport if a woman is beating up her kid the other women will yell at the children who Is getting beat while the males would try to tell the woman to be less harsh and try to help the kid . (And yes beating up kids in public is normal like woman smaking the shit out of a 3 year old that can't even talk for 5 minutes that alone is fantasy to others )
Hm, interesting. Not sure I agree with all of it, but I still love the analysis. Also I would love to point out one interesting thing: Jayce is _almost_ always pretty. It's relatively usual for female characters to always be pretty, e.g. never get ugly injuries and make ugly facial expressions. They're pretty when fighting, they're pretty when emotional... And I hate that trope. Out of all the main characters Jayce was the prettiest, others have some form of realistic ugly crying, or ugly rage or get hit and their face becomes ugly for a moment. Vi's a prime example of that, a beautiful person whose face does have face physics when fighting xD But Jayce is pretty all the time *until* the moment where he has that short bloodthirsty moment seconds before he kills a child. And I think that's masterfully done. It's the only moment when his face isn't pretty in some way and it's there for the storytelling. Love it.
Just to let you know 7 months later, this video is so good that I'm writing my final for gender studies on masculinity purity culture. It's such a profound and excellent way of viewing how masculinity is valued by men that I got inspired when I saw I could choose my topic. I'll be crediting you in the essay but just a thank you in general for this video, definitely one of the best
As a person which first thought about about writing men and women was "write them without caring about their gender" this was really eye opening, and it's interesting the thought that in one way or another stereotypes for good or bad will always form a part into the human personality. I really liked your video 💯❤️
Yeah. It's one thing that makes sense by societal standards but doesn't make sense by writing standards. We may want our characters to exist beyond their gender since that is the utopia our society desires, but the fact is that these problems affect people based on their gender.
I remember reading a book set in around 18th century Prague, female writer who clearly took the advice of "just write characters without caring about their gender." The male characters felt so incredibly bizarre at points it actually took me out of the book, straight up felt like they were written as female characters at points, which was fine for the more effeminate male characters but at the same time the book tried to tell us a lot of these characters were fairly masculine working class men.
This is terrible advice. There are differences between men and women, down to biology. Understand the differences, empathise with the differing psychology and write GOOD characters. Ripley is the best example, in the first movie she could be genderless, it's meaningless to the plot, but in Aliens she is a STRONG and an inherently FEMALE character by her motivations.
i just like the way the women are allowed to be powerful without being one dimensional, and the men are allowed to be vulnerable without being seen as weak
My most eye opening moment about the writing of men in Arcane has to come from my emotional connection to the characters coming so easily and naturally outside of making a connection based on gender. As a woman, I completely relate to Viktor and his struggles with emotional suppression and the need to prove his worth to others and himself. Honestly, until watching this video and actively thinking about the gender aspect of these characters, I didn't question my connection to Viktor at all because of the character first approach to the writing. It's so important to validate these struggles, first, for the men that deal with some if not all of these "be a man" stereotypes, and also, for anyone who feels any of these struggles regardless of the traditional role they might fill in society (gender related or not). Arcane's characters are truly and purely human in the way that, while still filling story archetypes and plot points, they are so complex and gender is never a solely defining trait.
What I love about the "Jayce is vulnerable with Mel" moment is, while yes she is a bit taken aback by it at first, nothing in the scene implies judgment to Jayce responding this way. The reason (I think) she's a little surprised at his vulnerability is rather because she's used to the logical, cold and compassion-lacking politics in Piltover. Cait for example regularly expresses her discontent with the dishonesty and ignorance of her city, so it's safe to assume genuine connection and vulnerability are rare in their society. This is why I believe Mel would have been surprised by anyone in Piltover showing true vulnerability and also why Cait's mom doesn't show any form of compassion towards Jayce when he's basically begging for validation (that whole segment in your video was incredibly eye-opening btw!) at the gates of her house in the rain during arc 1. It's not that men specifically can't behave this way, but rather anyone who wants to be part of Piltover's elite.
@@myralee1760 I agree! I think because of her own trauma (her mom exiling her) and the cold and calculating politics of Piltover, she started acting much less compassionate herself. Her methods were still very subtle and far from the violent approach her mother took, but she still acted mostly out of self interest. So when Jayce seeks comfort in her, she initially doesn’t understand, because in her mind she set herself up as a strong politician, free of sentimentalities. And suddenly this guy sees something in her that her own mother told her was a weakness. I think this, the fact that she actually cares about Jayce as a person and and being confronted with just how ruthless her mother is, ultimately reminds her that she used to be far more prone to mercy and peace. This build up is so brilliantly done and I didn’t even realise it until I rewatched the show.
She was almost surprised that he trusted her enough to show such weakness. being a politician, it is likely she is used to trusting others in so far as it benefited their interests. Instead, she has this junior politician that she has taken under her wing to guide and manipulate show her such a complete level of trust. I wonder how much of this act influenced Mel standing with Jayce later when it came to deciding peace.
I read it differently, I think until this moment Mel just manipulated him to gain his trust and to gain influence through him. And this was the moment she realized that he is genuinely interested in her and never expected any bad intentions. And this realization shocked her for a moment. She understood that there’s no "game“ to play against him and because of her past she also stops to enforce her will onto him because he could be the only one who sincerely cares for her.
The Vander moment of 'whatever happens, it's on you' was pretty striking. It's from a father figure to a daughter, but I think the resulting fear of being a failure or a disappointment is something a lot of guys get. And Vander did love Vi, and was doing his best, but I think the series illustrates pretty well that the 'tough love' approach frequently winds up making love conditional, even if that isn't the intent.
I think Vander wanted Vi to grasp the idea of consequences, because she was doing all this risky stuff involving her friends, sister and the undercity.
This might actually be teaching me lessons about my male and masculine friends :O I've got a close, very masculine, enby friend, whom I've told numerous times that I love - because I hold such deep love for them, and want to express it. They've never, ever, said it back. And that used to bother me a bit. Until I learned that they say it with their actions instead. They agree to hang out. They hold me when I'm sad. They bought me a very thoughtful, though somewhat inexpensive, present for my birthday, because they remembered me saying that I wanted it. Some people don't say "I love you" with words. And that has to be okay. So thank you, for making me understand my male and masculine friends a little better - while delivering excellent analysis of an excellent show.
I don't mean to be intrusive and tell you what to do or feel, I hope this doesn't come off that way, but even if you understand them better now (which is great and it helps for certain actions to not hurt), I just wanted to tell you that your needs are important too, and that they need to try to understand you as well. ❤ My boyfriend's love language is very much action-focused as well. I caught up on that, and try to match it so he can feel appreciated too; however, I do need to be told "I love you" back from time to time, so I told him so it is something that he can (and does) have in mind. If you feel like you need it, comunícate it to your loved ones, I'm sure that they will understand as well. Or perhaps knowing their love language and noticing it is enough for you, which is great as well! I just meant to let you know that it's ok to ask for what we need, because it's hard to get it when people around us work differently. Anyway, have a nice day!
I'm a female but I'm Asian and Asians doesn't usually say I love you so I just never understand how some people think the mere words of "I love you" means so much to a person. Even if theoretically someone said I love you to me I thought they're just faking it or saying it just to make themselves looks like a kind/caring person.
Speaking as a man here: validation is something so many men will spend their whole lives chasing. Vander and Silco perfectly embody this through their dream of the nation of Zaun. Vander fought tooth and nail to see it come true, and have Piltover validate the entire undercity as equal, until he nearly murdered his own brother on the path to achieving that validation. Then, after Vander strayed from that path once he saw the human cost of it, Silco chose to walk it. Silco was willing to turn everyone in the undercity into henchmen, dealers, and junkies, all to have his dream of an independent Zaun be validated by Piltover. But in the very end, Silco strayed from the path for the very same reason Vander did: family. Just as Vander wasn't willing to sacrifice his people for it, Silco wasn't willing to sacrifice Jinx for it. The validation of family was more important to them than the validation of Piltover. The way Arcane writes the human animal is truly genius.
God damn bro, never really realized that whole “I’m proud of you vs I love you” thing. Well that honestly makes sense for everything I have experienced in my life and in my other male friends lives. Fucken incredible
As a woman, Viktor hit me so fucking hard. Viktor is this character who does not posses physical prowess. He's super smart and calm and he always "sucks it up." All he does is work, always seeking this validation, striving for a legacy, craving pride and accomplishment. He is always working in the shadows, in private, on his own. Jayce is the rare exception, but he hides things even from him. I am all of these things. While Viktor doesn't necessarily have to compensate for his lack of physical strength because of the society he lives in, I, personally, feel that I do. The way I connect to Viktor is in the "suck it up" mentality in the way that it is used as a tool for _work ethic._ A huge fear in my life is not being strong enough, fast enough, powerful enough, to achieve what I want. Especially in things like sports. Whenever I feel like I lack the physicality I need, I get this "suck it up" mentality. I'm not allowed to complain. God forbid I ask for help. If I have a problem, I Google it, I work it out, I will willingly spend a long, arduous time solving it by myself instead of asking someone to help me. Because the more work I do, the more I feel that I am living up to that genius ideal I'm supposed to fulfill. Someone really smart wouldn't need help, right? And in school. Academic validation was the only thing that kept me going. It was like a rabid hunger. Relentless studying, ceaseless working, a constant restlessness when I wasn't studying because I felt like I _should_ be doing schoolwork. When I was working, I felt that I could be working _harder._ And just like Viktor, I suppressed the shit out of my feelings. I put concealer on my eyebags, I joked about my sufferings so that they seemed smaller than they were. I minimized my pain if it was exposed. The key was to keep my mouth shut and never tell anyone at all. Not my parents, not my teachers, not my siblings, not my best friend. I kind of felt a connection when Viktor hid his sickness from Jayce. I hide a lot of shit from my best friend, even though I actively encourage her to confide in me and she is very open about her experiences, and I admire her for this. However, it's like something is stopping me from opening up. I never tell her about my problems. Sometimes I even send her texts that sound like we're having a normal, cheerful conversation while I am actively crying lmao. So suppression, ouch. Like Viktor, I am socially inept. After a long string of being outcast due to a difference in interests between me and my classmates, I began to create some unhealthy habits when it came to socializing. See, I have a habit of _assuming_ that I am a negative prescence. I _assume_ people don't want to talk to me, that I am an inconvenience, that I disgust others, that I am an undesireable friend. And so I _automatically isolate myself,_ physically; I stand apart, I wander off, I put distance between myself and others without a second thought. Kind of like how Viktor brushed Sky off because he assumed that nobody wanted to know him any deeper. Plus he was too focused on work. And I, without friends, also dedicated my time to academics, even though I had this crippling self-hatred that told me that I Was Not Enough, that my Work Was Not Enough. So when the dude in the cave told Viktor that "Loneliness is often the byproduct of a gifted mind." I started fucking _bawling._ Because. Validation. _Validation._ I craved it. I blatantly ignored friends and potential romantic interests in favor of _work_ so that I could _impress teachers and parents_ and get _good grades_ BECAUSE I NEEDED VALIDATION. _LIKE VIKTOR._ AND ARE WE NOT GOING TO TALK ABOUT HOW WHEN THE STRESSES BECAME TOO MUCH HE ALMOST COMMITTED SUICIDE? _I'm slamming my head into my keyboard I can't with this fucking character my soul oh my god_ And the private breakdown, crippled with both a physical disability and the intangible weight of despair, sobbing his heart out all alone in the face of _failure_ The way Viktor is self-destructive in a way that makes him feel like he is fixing himself, with needles in his skin The lengths he is willing to go to stay alive, just a little longer, to get things done, The lengths I am willing to go to stay awake, just a little longer, to get things done Only to realize that his self-destruction damages _other people too_ and he ends up losing this incredible _oppurtunity_ at having a relationship with someone who loved him for who _he was_ and not for _his work._ I mean, the way he supresses himself is almost hinging on martydrom, the way he crushes his own problems in favor of reaching for a higher goal, a broader purpose: a legacy. It just... screams at me, like a mirror. Damn I ranted Anyway the takeaway is that I really relate to Viktor and a character's relateabillity has nothing to do with gender. (nobody was combatting this fact here, it just needs to be said more in general I think. Also I saw a guy comment about how much he related to Vi because she was an oldest sibling of 4, and he really connected with her, and he also mentioned that relateability is not connected specifically to a character's gender and I thought that was pretty sweet.)
For expression of emotion, I recommend writing it down or speaking about it out loud (you've already made this comment, so I'm guessing you're getting the hang of it) For some reason, I've been talking to myself since I was a boy (call me crazy, I don't mind) and doing so made me feel like someone was actually listening (probably was myself, sometimes thought it was god, or a hidden camera like in the Truman Show). It makes me think of the times when you don't necessarily need someone to fix your problems, but just someone to listen to them. By doing so, I'm pretty sure I'm one of the sanest people I know. Hopes this helps ❤
Im being lazy right now so tldr all of it but i did read the beginning. Men are told to suck it up and just deal with things. ask for help and you're seen as weak or incapable. I am a woman but am physically hindered, I'm disabled. But if for just one day i want to just not because i hurt my dad, who raised me solo mostly, makes me feel worthless for just asking him to wash his own dishes or just go to the store with him. This idealism is pushed by men often as well because that's all they know to be acceptable. Viktor did infact speak to me as well. Having to fix things on your own, or at least seeming to have to. Not wanting to appear weak or like a burden on anyone. Trying to strive in what you're good at; building your talents, but coming up short in some way, and being told no or not good enough. Viktor was told his project wasn't ready yet but he also knew if it weren't presented now he may not see the day it would be. So much has happened because of him but it wasn't enough in his eyes because he can do so much, he felt free in a way. He felt he was worthy. But the impending doom looming before him, scared him far too much. He just wanted to be accepted and to continue to be and to grow. Having some kind of physical hinderance is annoying to the person having to live with it, so the last thing someone would want to do is worry someone else and have then also carry the weight you've been. Asking for help is a great thing, but people, men especially, arent allowed to ask. So i too related to Viktor and with that i wish people would accept asking for help as a normal thing. In my opinion, asking for help is a strength in itself. You've realized your limitations and are trying to prevail and succeed, even if it means going outside of yourself. A single stick breaks easy when pressure is placed on it but a group is more difficult to break. There is infact strength in numbers, especially when the people you lean on build you up.
'I have problems opeing up about my problems' Also 'read this 1000 word rant about my inner tumult random internet crowd' sus A true genius would realize that fame and recocnition are superficial and in our world often unjust. Also Viktor is stupid for not trusting Jayce, sure Jayce might not like where they have to go to save Viktors life, but he would fight for his brother and Singed might have been quite the valuable ally in all this shenanigans. I was a one trick pony Singed Seasons 1-5 and I cant wait for him to be in the spotlight in Arcane Season 2. I like what you say about gender and other stuff being irrelevant to relate to a character. Im no turtle and no Ninja but I loved Donni. DBZ are japanese people drawing western/white looking characters where the only guy that is black is a 1930 Disney charicature and black people (black men *cough*) love the show.
I wish you had talked more about how men in arcane don't live at the expense of women. The fact that there is no need for these male characters to "establish dominance" or don't care about losing against a woman or opening up o a woman is a statement by itself. There is no trying to make Vi softer, or a man decided to win a fight with her, Jace has no problem in being "weak" with a woman or following a woman's orders, no one questions a woman's authority just because they're women. Really good analysis but I just felt like that missed, but honestly you did amazing with the validation theme
Although I agree, I'd also say that this was covered in detail by the other video he's referring to, about how Arcane writes women. He wasn't expecting to do this follow up video, so he covered that all in great detail there.
Well personally I did find it a tad weird vi never met a guy that was her character type but way more over the top (like some men do) - we never really got that. It's not a problem ofcourse. But felt weird being a man myself and having a well known relation to toxic masculinity So yeh you're opinion is valid but could have used a "manly man" in a bad way, like when Vi talks to most people she doesn't straight out love
The problem I have with the "write female characters just as people" is that it tends to ignore that one's gender does play a big part in how one might be socialised. Character does come first.... but wait, where does the character come from? From your past life. And gender can paly a big part in that. Not into your INHERENT ways of thinking and acting, but in those you learn beacuse of how people treat you.
Yup. Identity is social, so the groups that you present as belonging to will shape how people interact with you. It's not *only* social, but that back-and-forth is a core component of any character. Gender's just one of those ways.
Funnily enough, I just had a discussion like this with one of our Arcane servers on why I love Viktor, his character and his design so much. The one thing I love about Arcane is, it's not afraid of showing its male characters being fragile and imperfect in comparison to the countless swathes of media that generally tends to present its male characters like these perfect badasses who are only allowed to cry for the sake of hamming up drama. Like this is something I picked up on just this recently after going to the cinema to see Black Adam. A lot of writers are too afraid to make their male characters too vulnerable and too imperfect. But for me, I like to cite him as one of the most beautiful characters I know because there's just so much personality and storytelling in this character that when you see him at first is so subtle on him that many barely pick up on it at first, and this is all in a character that's not really seen much. His brand of masculinity is such a subtle, unconventional brand of masculinity that you barely see it at all in most media from the way he carries himself right down to his design from the beauty marks on his face to the way he's built and presented. And from what I learned from an old video of Pop Culture Detective's on Newt Scamander, it's because a lot of men in real life is kinda discouraged from carrying themselves the way Viktor does because people seeing it as being "too soft". But that's what I love the most about him. What I've always loved most about him on every facet is, they're not afraid of showing him being vulnerable and ESPECIALLY, being imperfect. Like, we've seen him at his most fragile, whenever he'd experiment on himself, we've seen him at his worst moments throughout the show including in his life and all his mistakes so far and his emotions around it as well as how he owns up to his mistakes. We've seen how he is with his relationships in these highly fragile moments, like with Jayce at the ledge, and with Singed, and in pretty much every scene that he's in, he just feels, refreshingly human. Not to mention how this is all reflected in his character design, when he's on his death bed, he actually looks like he's dying, as opposed to this highly Tim-Burtoned up, romanticized way people in his predicament are usually framed, like the old Victorian novels used to do with women who suffered from Tuberculosis. When we see him experiment on himself, we see him at his most fragile mentally and physically where, he literally looks like if you touch him the wrong way he'd break a bone or wind up bruised for months, but at the same time, to an extent we see him being a little animalistic. There's just this continuous sense of being scared for him AND being scared of him at the same time because by this point we know what shimmer does, and we have no idea what it might do to someone who at this stage looks like a living skeleton. They're more than happy to show him at his best where he's at his most stunning, healthy and most content in life, where we get to see what he could've been essentially had things been different for him, but at the same time they don't hold back on being messy with him, being dark and solemn and kinda gruesome in a sense, and showing him bounce back a little to a degree. Which, considering where he ends up in LoL, kinda makes me batcrap terrified of what they're going to do to the poor guy once Season 2 rolls around because, god forbid, has this poor man been through a lot already.
As a daughter I can see this difference between parenthood and motherhood, like my father says to me”you would accomplish great things” or “You will be better than me and your mother” and my mom says more “I love you” and thing like that.
That is interesting, thanks for sharing your experience. My father said neither "I love you" nor "I am proud of you" nor " You will accomplish great things" like you stated. This might explain why I feel simply disconnected from him on the emotional level. Thanks for the enlightenment
I agree. It's a bit weird. My parents both say " I love you" and "You will accomplish great things", but their actions show that my mom is focused on keeping me safe while my dad is focused on finding ways for me to move on and pave a way for myself. It's great!
And there's my parents who constantly fight and never said anything good to any of their child. My mom constantly compare me to my smarter siblings and my dad just doesn't care.
“I’m proud of you” being the masculine form of “I love you” is such an amazing take that I’ve never thought of before but it’s so true! I can think of countless examples from both healthy and unhealthy relationships where that’s the case. A child trying to be the best in everything to get the attention of an uncaring father. Friends hyping each other up and congratulating them for their accomplishments. An older brother or father teaching a child to play catch and how much that means to the child especially when they’re told they’re getting the hang of it. As always this is incredible analysis. I don’t know how you do it but please keep up the good work.
I really like the idea of women typically being more protective than men, especially mothers. There's actually a good reason Steve in Stranger Things is considerd the mother of the group, he's not even a female but people see him as the mother not just becuase of a joke but because he's protective of the group.
@@kakonthebed entirely untrue protection of children, or even direct education like humans or meerkats have, is hardwired into most mammals and birds because children are extremely vulnerable and without parent supervision they likely will not survive (even with parent supervision they probably won't, but it gives em a better chance lol) the amount invested in the child varies for sure! but like why do mammals have breasts that make milk if they don't look after their kids at all
I think when people say 'write characters as people', what they're trying to say is to 'write characters as a culmination of experiences' without understanding what that really is. Some experiences are gendered, some experiences aren't, and all of them are influenced by the setting and society. It's a very 'from the ground up' approach that people don't realize takes a lot more effort to make work, but the approach they had with Arcane had a very similar result that will be a phenominal influence on a lot of people in multiple creative spheres.
Also want to add that a reason one might not think as deeply about writing men in relation to gender is because much of society sees men as the default person and women as the addendum. Heck it's in our language woMEN, feMALE, sHE. think it's just interesting how western society has made white cis male the default and all other qualities modifiers. Also funny considering biologically speaking female is actually the default until the y chromosome is added, which is why men have vestigial nipples.
@@metageek7878 Man did not used to mean “male”, man used to mean “humanity/human being”, the old words in Old English for male adult person and female adult person were “werman” and “wifman” respectively, we can see this relation in words like werewolf and wife as being the remnants of the base “wer-” and the base “wif-”. Woman evolved phonologically from the word “wifman” by natural processes where the ‘f’ sound dropped and the ‘i’ became lax. Man dropped its “wer” stem for reasons mostly unknown Female: Male and Female actually come etymologically from two completely different words. Male comes from Old French “masle” which meant masculine, while Female came from Old French as well “femella” which meant young woman. This is another case, just like he and she, where the words coincidentally ended up looking similar without having any direct correlation in historical linguistic processes to make them as such. Human: This word etymologically derives from Proto-Indo-European “ghomon” which means earthly being as opposed to heavenly being which would refer to gods. here ya go hun
@@Castigar48 no actually: human comes from Latin 'homo' meaning 'man' or 'human being' > Latin 'humanus' > Old French and then Middle English 'humaine' > Modern English 'human'. 'Homo' in Latin comes from 'humus' meaning 'earth' or 'ground', but that doesn't change the meaning of 'homo', which could mean just 'man' or 'human being', sort of in a similar way to 'mankind'. I was literally just looking at the etymology of human and man the other day so this is fascinating to me, I only read the 'human' etymology part of ur comment tho, I got too excited of sharing this knowledge to read the rest yet haha
@@Castigar48 oh and many scholars state that while yes, 'female' and 'male' are etymologically unrelated, the ending of 'female' was changed due to its frequent association with 'male' back in Middle English. Google has a pretty handy thing where you just type "(word) etymology" and it gives an easy to understand chart of these things, and then of course other results that go more in depth below that.
@@Castigar48 oh and you forgot to mention 'wifman' (which meant woman or female servant) literally means 'wife' + 'man' (but keep in mind 'mann' the last root meant person, which coincides with men being seen at the default). Wikipedia has an etymology section as well, which is where I got this part! Rabbit holes for daysss for language lovers haha. Correction: Wiktionary has the etymology, not Wikipedia, but potato potahto.
The validation point was actually really useful for me, I often find it difficult to write "masculine" men in my own stories because I have never experienced "being a man" (because I am not a man) and I often struggled with how they express emotion and, when together, seek validation from each other. This was a really useful insight and I will take it away and into my own stories hopefully. Maybe I can actually write some decent male characters now lol
Growing up female with a macho father, I learned a lot of anxieties from both sides. Sports teams would tell me to "man up", and yet would berate the boys if I ever one-upped them. "You let a GIRL beat you??" I prided myself on suppressing emotion, playing up my "tomboy" aspects, and judging people for something as simple as expressing joy with friends rather than keep stoic. Children pervade these stereotypes, and it really has a devastating effect on your psyche. Arcane hit every sweet spot for me. They allowed characters to freely interact with each other in unique ways. Mel wasn't immediately receptive when Jayce opened up to her; she was still dealing with her own impression of the night prior, along with everything else, and the show allowed her those feelings, even when the situation wasn't about her. It didn't shame or make her look stupid for having misread the situation, and inversely, it didn't shame Jayce for having run off in the first place. The audience wasn't forced to side with anyone. I think this especially, the lack of "shame" or "choosing sides" in the show, is something that really stood out to me. Princesses always huff angrily when the prince runs off recklessly to fight instead of running away, and you always get that one scene that turns out to be a needless misunderstanding. People mis-hearing a more damning part of a conversation and leaving before context is provided, for instance! I was actually worried that Mylo-Vi's overheard conversation was going to go in the same direction, but it seemed like it was used later to avoid re-hashing Powder's insecurities, summed up instead by her line: "you were twice the person at half my age". Another factor that absolutely solidified my appreciation for this show that I don't see anyone mentioning: the world seemed to canonically not have rape or sexual harassment. It not only wasn't brought up as a threat when it many times could have been used as one, but it was not even a possibility. I love gritty and grim movies, but those scenes just break immersion for me and make me feel uncomfortable. I already know the feeling of being targeted, harassed, etc; I don't need escapist media to remind me of that! Thank you for making these videos. Your perspective and break-downs are very refreshing, and I appreciate you sharing insight from your father as well!
Pretty sure Mels mother sexually harassed Jayce by purposely asking for his presence while bathing so she could flash him. So really what you mean in that no women experienced it, or you are incapable of recognizing female predators because you don't think they can be.
"seemed to canonically not have rape or sexual harassment" The world DEFINITELY has this, but it wasn't part of the story they wanted to tell. Before Vi fights Sevika with her gloves there's the guy that starts licking someone head, the slums definitely have violence, including sexual violence, going on in them, and when Vi gets mugged it didn't look like the guy with the jacket had much in the way of morality. But the biggest arguement against it imo is the blur around Jinx and Silco. There are definitely times when it is legitimately suspicious what's going on, and Silco has such an enormous amount of power over Jinx that if he wanted to he could, and the show wouldn't be radically different, or even different at all. It ultimately comes down to your judgement of Silco as a person, and whilst he definitely had unexpected good points, he still thought that Jinx was okay as a crazy, broken, murderous child in the body of a teenager, and encouraged this creation. TL;DR Although it didn't have a place in the story they wanted to tell sexual assault is definitely a thing in Arcane. It is a primal drive, and especially in places like Zaun it definitely occurs.
@@雷-t3j You're right. But that's because the monsters in Piltover are well-fed and well-entertained. Do to Piltover what Piltover is doing to Zaun and everything becomes like Zaun.
I saw a trans man talk about the same sorts of things. Once living as a woman, he assumed that men did very little emotional labor, emotionally supportive work like talking through emotionally draining topics and being compassionate to struggling others (etc.), which is work that often falls to women (e.g., women/feminine teachers are the ones students share their personal struggles with and ask for flexibility from over men/masculine teachers). However, after transitioning and passing as a man to other men, he realized that men did emotional labor, too, but it was all about validating other men and their masculinity as you describe. The tough greetings, the brushing off of perceived emasculating moments, and more was the emotional labor he found he did as a man, which he doesn’t think is always useful if it prevents men from getting the deeper levels of support they actually need and if most other emotional labor gets pushed onto women as a result.
"...which he doesn’t think is always useful if it prevents men from getting the deeper levels of support they actually need..." I think that is a bit of a fallacy there. The tough greetings and brushing off _aren't_ men validating each other. That's the guy version of being "catty" and testing each other's social place. That said, friends can do that to each other as a bit of a tease, much like how female friends might call each other names they'd never accept from "outsiders". Men validate each other with stuff like "we're going out with some guys, wanna come" (read as 'you are cool') and "oof, that sucks" (read as 'oof, that sucks'). That type of masculine compassion is different from feminine compassion, but no less effective. Claiming it leaves the responsibility of emotional labor for women to deal with is like saying that "women being catty to each other isn't always useful if it leaves men to deal with the fallout". No duh.
"which he doesn’t think is always useful if it prevents men from getting the deeper levels of support they actually need" This is a misconception of women's own creation that doesn't actually exist for men. Men express their emotions differently than women, with different social cues and different ways of showing compassion for their fellow man. Doesn't make it wrong, and it doesn't mean that they're "not getting the support they need". Just because men are different than women doesn't mean that the way men do it is wrong.
@@TheRawrnstuff i think you misunderstood what I meant at a few places. First, the “brushing off of perceived emasculating moments” was not about actually brushing off someone. I meant that (as this guy described), when a dude does something emasculating, other dudes tend to do the emotional labor of validating him and his masculinity in that moment. The emasculating moment is what is brushed off. The “tough greetings” was referring to generally validating greetings that guys tend to do with one another that do appear more “tough” or “macho” in a basic sense. Second, the “not giving the deeper level of support needed” stuff was about how men who are really struggling with something, grief, depression, etc. still get the basic validation of “oh, that sucks” or “crying doesn’t make you less of a man,” but as this dude described, you don’t always go much further to get at the full issue (please note that I wrote *don’t always* not “never”). I teach about suicide and depression in my job, and this is supported by the research on men, who are more likely to avoid seeking out a diagnosis and help and instead mask symptoms with alcohol/drugs, which contributes to men’s higher rates of completed suicide. Men indeed do less traditionally recognized emotional labor, like unpaid compassion work with emotional mentorship, accommodations requests, at-home parent care, etc. (e.g., I teach the same class as male colleagues, but I’m the one with more accommodation requests and get more complaints about whether I’m accommodating and supportive enough; the more feminine-presenting of my male colleagues also receive more things like me than our more masculine-presenting male colleagues), but you really misunderstood that whole point, too. Again, this isn’t just what **I** think; this is a guy describing his new experiences. I’m sorry if I didn’t summarize it clearly enough, but it seems like you really misconstrued what I wrote. :(
@@ryanhall5360 I’m talking about mental health support, not just validation. Men, on average, do not seek out the mental health support they need, and their male peers tend to shy away more from going that deep with emotions. Sorry that my summary wasn’t clear enough for you. Edit: typo
@@ladynoluck I think, again, that it's just a matter of perspectives. Men tend to want to solve things on their own and face adversity head-on, by themselves. Seeking mental health support isn't always the best method for dealing with tough situations, especially for men. For women, it comes more naturally, but for guys it's just not something that they tend to want, and that's perfectly fine. It's one thing to say that men don't seek out mental health support, and another thing entirely to imply that it's a bad thing. If I misread your intentions, I apologize, but this is something that I think people tend to misunderstand about masculinity and how it differs from femininity.
Just wow... You gave me a lot to think about with how I interact with my two sons, man to man. I tell them all the time that I love them, because I genuinely do, but how often do I let them know that I am proud of them, when I genuinely am. Or how often do I validate their opinions and experiences as important to me, because they very much are. And this is something I never realized for myself, but that validation is really important to me, so of course it makes sense that it probably is to them as well. Something to remember going forward, with making sure I let them know fully how I feel, and not just the parts that people traditionally talk about being important to express.
I went to a Brandon Saderson signing one, my mom is a huge fan, and part of it was that he had a q and a just before the actual signing. So I asked how he writes women and one of the things he said was that he had an issue when he first got into writing with writing men and women "the same", he said the issue was that gender is very important to factor in when writing characters. I don't remember it exactly cause it was like a decade ago and I was a kid, but this made me think of that advice about keeping in mind how characters gender is important when writing them and to factor in mind that gender shouldn't define a character (that was something he also mentioned). Great video btw.
Cool! I just reread the original Mistborn trilogy and I was wondering about his approach since Vin starts out so purposefully androgynous. You can definitely tell he refined his methods by the time he was writing stormlight.
Brandon Sanderson talks about his early struggles writing women in his 2020 lectures on RUclips. They're a very good watch and highly recommend. You can google search, "Brandon Sanderson Writing Believable Female Characters" and it's just a few paragraphs.
Yeah it's kind of disappointing because there are a lot of authors who are otherwise very good, but you can tell that they write male characters as people first and men second, while female characters are written as women first and people second. Writing them the same isn't necessarily good writing, but it is a good step towards breaking a bad writing habit, and a useful tool for seeing what parts of your characters are effected by gender and whether those parts actually add something or are just a stereotype. Hence the popular slogan "write women as people", because too many treat men as people and women as women, so they see personhood as an erasure of womanhood. Side note: It also why it bugs me when authors say "Women play an important role in my world." Like...yes, I should think HALF THE POPULATION would play a role in your world!
I found the quote where Sanderson talks about writing women. It's in part 9: Characters 1 of the 2020 lecture series at 41: 10 ruclips.net/video/1NCiuI6F5O0/видео.html
I've been falling down the rabbit hole of arcane essays for 3 months now and I'm so glad most of them are from you, Schnee! Love this quick and to the point style you do.
I just wanted to say how fantastic this video essay is, and how accurately it hits the nail on the head as far as the core of actual masculinity. Now, if you who are reading this feel like indulging me, I've an experience to share: I'll start off by saying that I have not watched Arcane (something which I plan to correct once I get home), but that even through this video essay I relate to the struggle of 'surviving emasculation'. Throughout my childhood and teenage years, I always felt really insecure about my masculinity. In short, I do not - and have never, really - fit the 'traditional ideal' of masculinity. I've chronic asthma and tendinitis, and have since I was little. It made playing sports difficult, and, being that by my personality I was and am only a passing fan of them, I did not enjoy playing nor going out of my way to watch them. While I appreciate being outdoors, and love nature, I'm not one for riding motorcycles or mountain bikes or hiking. I'm tall, and have been fit at points in my life, but aren't really able to make any muscle show. I prefered writing, and music, and telling stories. I watched movies instead of sports, read instead of playing football, listened to classical and blues instead of listening to rap or country music. I felt like a fraud, and struggled with trying to fit myself to what I thought was the idea of masculinity, and while I was able to put on a facade (surprise surprise, acting/roleplay is one of my passions) it was, in the end, always sort of a lie. This went on until 2021, in my second year of college. I was diagnosed with Bipolar II and, at first, I did not want to be given medication for it. I wanted to 'suck it up' and handle it on my own. But then my dad asked me if I wanted to stop taking my allergy medication. I thought he'd lost it (I've really bad allergies), and said no. He replied, "What's different about this than your allergies? You don't have the right chemicals being produced. The medicine makes that happen. It's the same as your allergy medication." Suffice to say, I started meds, and decided that I wanted to find the source of all this insecurity of mine, and why I thought taking medication for what is ostensibly an allergy was a sign of being emasculated. After a lot of soul searching and reading and a touch of therapy, I found that how I describe masculinity at its utmost is security. The ability to project security, so that those I care about feel safe. The ability to let people feel safe in my company, not only from outside sources, but also me. The ability, in the far future, to make certain my family is secure and provided for. And, most importantly, security within: acceptance of who I am, the flaws I may have, but without giving into them. Developing them, so that they might serve me, and accepting and wearing my personality proudly, and being secure in it. I always thought that this idea of the primacy of security was the case, but what I failed to realize is there is a difference between creating an aura of security and forcing security onto others. One is passive, and pure, and comes from within to reassure those without. The other is active, imposing, toxic, and is not about security for all, but about control and predictability for oneself. It's this inner security, this inner peace, that is healthy, that is the essence of being a man. I am a nerd. I do eschew many traditional definitions of masculinity. I do feel my emotions and, though I control them and they do not control me, I refuse to hide them. But I *am* a man. I am all of those things, but I'm also a gentleman. On a sinking ship, women and children *will* go before me. I am unafraid to defend myself and others. I *will* tell my friends I love them, that I'm proud of them. And I will *absolutely* talk to random dogs and cats in a baby voice, without shame. *That* is masculinity to me, at its purest. Thank you for reading, if you've made it this far. This turned into a longer post than I originally planned, lol. My one request is that if you are a man, or even a woman feeling the same struggle, please do not be afraid to be you. So long as you hold yourself to the values that you think are important, that define you, and that encourage you to do better and be kind, you are the pinnacle of yourself. Define your ideals of masculinity and femininity not by the will of others, but rather the aspects of it that you value that do not discount who you are. Thanks again, I wish you all the utmost love and wellness. May you improve the lives of others. - Connor
Hi, thank you for sharing your story, it was deeply meaningful. I wonder if you've been able to watch the show and, if you have, what you think of Viktor. I feel like that character is one that you could certainly relate to, but I'm also very glad you've been able to find yourself and push through your fears to find your truth (something Viktor is still actively struggling with physically and emotionally). It's very inspiring to know this kind of growth is very possible
Thank you so much for your text! It's very inspiring and it deeply touched me because I never really identified with being a woman. It felt like I couldn't be myself and be a woman at the same time, so I didn't want to be one. But lately I basically came to the same conclusion as you did: I don't need to be a certain way because I am a woman. I am who I am. I can be a woman and I can be me at the same time. And that's what I will do, I will be me. ^^ So yeah thank you a lot for sharing and I wish you the best !
@@Emmajic So glad to hear that I was able to help you! Thank you for sharing, and I'm glad I could help you feel a little less alone in the mindset. From a random person on the internet, I'm proud of and happy for you! Best of luck out there!
Mr. Kiramman I believe is stereotypically "feminine." Seriously. From what we've seen in Season 1, Caitlyn's mom was more of a "traditional dad" to Caitlyn than her father.
“More of a dad to caitlyn than her father” What is that supposed to mean? There is no wrong way to be a dad (as long as you love and support your children ofc), yes the mother was more dominant but it’s dumb to say that a woman being dominant means she acts a man (I.e. the “father”) Also the father seemed to be the more kind/ understanding/ emotionally open one, why should that mean that he is less of a father? That implies that real fathers and men shouldn’t/ can’t have those qualities, which is messed up.
True, from the scenes we saw, he was more nurturing and exhibited more traditionally feminine traits. But that doesn't make him any less of a person being a man. Just as Vi exhibits mainly masculine traits but is no less of a person being a women. This is something that the show is generally trying to convey.
This, but it's more of that Mrs. Kiramman leads the household and he takes a supporting role. And he seems quite happy to do so, so it's a win-win arrangement for both of them.
Fantastic video. There is one small bit near the end I think is missing. Near the end, you mentioned Silco's application of make-up as an example of him caring about perception. Obviously true giving his use of theatrics, but I think it had a different purpose. I think it was there as a small, early, nod to his character growth. In the first arc, Silco has the same goal but wears his scars proudly and openly a testament to his ability to survive. He understood that power in Zaun and didn't care how it made him look to Piltover. It's only after adopting Jinx that he begins wearing makeup. My theory on this is that either his scars scared her as a child, and he didn't want to do that, or that he wanted her to see his as a man and not a monster. The make-up is the first instance the viewer sees of Silco compromising. It's the foreshadowing to the scene where he's speaking at Vander's statue of how raising Jinx influenced his growth as a person.
You put it perfectly "you didn't think there was that much there" to talk about. The women video while enlightening was more or less expected. Of course many of the women characters are masculine, of course they skip the cliches or apply them differently but this? These were perspectives I never thought about. Well done! To you and even moreso to Arcane! Damn man this show keeps getting better and better.
The segment about emasculation is absolutely brilliant and hits close to home. I rarely show emotions (has nothing to do with me being a man, this is just how I am), but sometimes I have these outbursts, and most of the times they were judged as "feminine" by people around me. That's one of the reason I like Jayce so much - he is musculine in every way possible, but he is not afraid to be vulnerable and to show his emotions, and he is also not judged for that by people around him.
@Chronostradamus Chrome Idk. I’m the same way as a woman. Literally training myself out of it to be better examples to my little sisters and brothers. And considering they’ve slipped and called me brother, mom, and dad…. I think it’s a role model needed.
I agree, the characters were specifically designed for their genders. Vi and Jinx’s conflict and motivations would not nearly be as impactful if they were men, there are a bunch of things that wouldn’t make as much impact if the characters were genderswapped
We also need to remember that most of the characters specifically the main women in the show, were already made it would have made no sense if they swapped gender, but as an example Vi in her base form would work as a man or woman. The gender does matter but it's not nearly as important as personality. Another example you can have a supremely powerful wizard or soldier who could be homosexual but if sexuality isn't part of the story it's pointless to focus on sexuality.
@@kainnak While I'd make that argument myself, I think the original comment is talking more on how each character was expressed and handled with their sex in mind. Like, down to the emotional level. Gender can be whatever but sex does have different dealings in life just from the very idea of how they're brought up and society tries to pin whatever on them. ( Can see Vi going through hard shit as a young girl with jinx so she had to grow up quickly and probably mimic'd Vander and other dudes to do it?)
I think the Vi and Jinx thing is the vast difference in sisterhood vs brotherhood. Both equally deep and important, but very different narratively and tonally.
@@JakeBananas Vi is basically written as a big brother archetype, protective, hardheaded, and takes on leadership roles out of necessity. Whereas with the big sister archetype, that's more about showing compassion, and whilst still protective, it's more nurturing. So if genderswapped, Vi wouldn't really change all too much, we'd just lose out on a cool lesbian relationship between Vi and Cait
Yeah, anything that implies you're not a real woman (or less of a woman) for doing something can be considered the opposite of emasculation, since it has a similar effect. But there's no counterpart in name. Edit: Hold up, I just remembered "Defeminisation". Although I hear that word more in discussions of misogynoir between black women, it has pretty much the same meaning: devaluing your womanhood. Except, it's bc of the assumption that you're black & therefore less feminine, or less capable of having feminine virtues as they pertain to whiteness, like innocence, chastity or purity. Its point is to dehumanize you, the same way emasculation would a man. "If you don't operate perfectly within the norms of your sex, I am allowed to treat you less than." So yeah, defeminisation.
It is definitely a thing (at least in my experience). Because it's being told that your doing femininity "wrong", that you're not being "feminine enough". Which, going by the binary gender understanding most people are raised in, means you're being "too masculine", and that's gross and/or wrong. But also, you can also be "too feminine" (read: hysterical, too emotional, too complicated). And being a little more "masculine" isn't always a negative thing. Women get praised (sometimes) for showing some "masculine" traits, like logic, independance, ambition, assertiveness. The same way women get judged on a constantly shifting scale between being "too sexy" and "too prude", being "not feminine enough" and "too feminine" is also a balancing act. You'll get praise from some people and insults from others: the whole "damned if you do, damned if you don't" experience of being a woman. But that's also, I think, why there's no 100% equivalent to emasculation. Men don't get a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" treatment for their masculinity most of the time: their societal approval comes from doing masculinity "right", where feminity is always perceived as a negative. For women, you can definitely be "too feminine".
I think that with so much nuance in this series as he has multiple videos about so many subtle and very hard to point out details regarding characters, story and overall theme, it is hard to believe they just sat and thought so deeply for each detail but more like they were just very good at their job and many of details were result of their incredible intuition due to experience.
This explains a lot of why Silco is my fave character. His scene of him at vanders statue and just...coming to terms he had everything wrong. His choices werent the best. And now hes in the same hard position Vander was in. He was showing so much vulnerability over his choices and while by himself you can see that honesty. Youd expect him to blow up at the end of things like a lot of villians do. But he just...is beside himself in his choice. This show gets better everytime I take more time to think about it.
16:50 for me, Vi is like "a mother and father" to Powder, because that's the role an older sister displays, as an older sister myself, she teaches Powder strength trough her kind and protective nature, encouraging her and securing her habilities
6:27 I get so annoyed when people make comments like this. Thank you for bringing this up. YES women are people, but gender impacts us *all* whether it's part of your identity or not (ex. genderless, agender). Edit: Okay, saying this now, this may not apply for some *fictional* universes/worlds, where gender may have less effect. I do still believe this applies if you're writing a story in the real world.
No, sex is what impacts us all. Gender doesn’t exist, it’s a social construct, feminity and masculinity are social constructs created to oppress women. Sex is what exists. Saying that gender can be an identity only perpetuates misogyny, since it reaffirms gender stereotypes and roles. You cannot identify out of something that does not exist, you are either a man or a woman, and how you choose to express yourself (using or not using makeup, the clothes you wear, etc) is just a part of your personality
Entirely unironically, this video actually made me realize a lot of things about myself and other men in my life that I never even realized. This is such an incredibly insightful video, even beyond the topic of characters, stories, and gender. This is super applicable to real life and understanding the motivation for things some MEN ACTUALLY DO in the real world. My love language is Quality Time, and I have always felt strongly that I can hang out with a friend (or multiple), and we can be doing absolutely nothing, just hanging out and maybe not even say a single word to each other, and to me that feels like a genuinely valuable use of my time. I feel happy and comfortable in those moments. On the flipside, right now where I have basically no friends in close proximity anymore and no one to really hang out with, I have drastically felt as though I lack friendship entirely in my life. I never once considered the motivation and driver of validation within myself and why that makes Quality Time my love language. You described it absolutely perfectly in this video, and it really opened my eyes to things I didn't even really consider about myself. Incredible breakdown video tbh. This is some next level psychological understanding.
He's a pathetic excuse of a human who would see half the population of the underworld die instead of doing the only right thing he could have done his whole life
Is that manly or is that just things humans would do for people they love. Let’s not get carried away and kid ourselves into thinking everything is masculine or feminine
I can't believe how you were able to sum up the common issue in parental male relationships, is the child seeking validation. Wanting their father figure to be proud of them. My dad died 2.5 years ago and I got a tattoo with his hand writing except it wasn't him writing "I love you" it was "Make me proud" because growing up that's how he showed his love, by telling me how proud he was of me. I think I will add to the tattoo though. I still have his hand writing saying that he loves me. Just wanted to share that your effort in making this video was incredible and you hit so many things right on the head, in the show and in real life.
yeah this entered my brainspace just two days before my orientation meeting for a very intensive psychological treatment (this is my 4th round of treatment so wish me luck) and it really helped find the words on (part of) what I'm missing and need from the treatment.
For me it has to do a lot with the setting in which arcane is on... the majority of characters have rough backgrounds with a not-so-kind childhood, and being forced to grow up quickly in dangerous surroundings can make people want to become "stronger" and since being strong can be associated with being masculine (there are exceptions) that's the behavior they show others. It's hard to allow yourself to be feminine and open in a world where you have to fight others physically almost daily.
I think this is a really interesting take, especially considering that one of the most feminine characters, Caitlyn, didn’t grow up in an environment that would have forced her to feel the need to be strong (at least, in a life-or-death kinda way) And you’re right that there are exceptions, I think Mel is a good example of that (maybe?), but it is still interesting to think on regardless.
I think overall, all Arcane's characters are very human, they live in a ruthless world and they have to come up with different solutions (based on their own skills and personalities) to resolve certain situations to survive or to emerge, I really liked the "validation" part because although I think it's not necessarily a strictly gender related thing, but also in a world like Arcane's, it's very important for certain characters, mostly the phisically "weak" ones, and also because it creates a good balance and solidify their dignity , which sustans male's vulnerable side, aside from their social image/status
Silco and Viktor are my favorite characters in this show the way Silco changed from being brutal\strategical\unforgiven to being capable of throwing it all away for Jinx her daughter someone who was just like him forsaken\abandoned, we get to see him at his weakest point when he speaks to the statue of his brother and he dies while showing it. The way you get to see him become a true father is exquisite I wished there were more Silco scenes. And Viktor a character that I would describe as despair & hope someone who had talent yet wasn't recognized yet the moment he had a chance Jayce steals the spotlight pushing him back to square 1 and when he finally manages to cure his leg he gets hope of fully curing himself yet despair appears once more by realizing he doesn't have more liquid yet he still foolishly hopes for a better outcome and proceeds' with it resulting in him losing the only person that truly cared about him showing how his obsessiveness on his research and not asking for help truly ended up hurt him.
Theres at least one female gender stereotyped male character. Vic perfectly fits the stereotype of women trying to make it in a male dominated field. People look down on him, they don't take him seriously he doesn't get credit for his accomplishments, the credit is given to his male partner. Nobody expects anything of him except eventual failure. They pity him and think he's out of his lane.
The idea of using humongous shifts to female gender norms but on the other hand using moments to challenge male masculinity is genius in a way that I would've never thought of. Man and women have different challenges, therefore they can't be written identically. Great breakdown!!
I feel they're all different representations on masculinity and on how masculine characteristics aren't necessarily bad but they do need to be ironed down or at least managed as much as stereotypically femenin characteristics, being kind and giving is bad when it puts you in the way of manipulation just as being overly egotistical will close doors in work and relationships as a whole, arcane is amazing as showing that even the good qualities expected for each gender can be bad if not controlled
bro, ngl your videos ALONE have made me more and more inclined to start writing you're genuinely so inspiring and seeing your new, different perspectives is always amazing
Yo, I am a cis straight dude who is flamboyant and feminine and this gave me some context about my relationship with dad. I held a grudge for a long time for he has never as far as i remember said i love you. At lunch when my family was together i brought that up, and he was so pressurized by my mom and brother he said i love you you fool to my mom which is also a rare occurrence. It seemed as if though he felt weak at that moment.
I am a cis bi girl who is quite masculine, and I've always not liked saying the words "I love you", or "I love you too" when someone says them to me. I would not say them for the longest time, until my brother asked me "why won't you tell mom you love her back?" Because of that I felt like I had to, even if I didn't like doing so. I said it once or twice lmao. Even if I truly love them as well, it does make me feel weak saying those words, I'm not very expressing of my emotions and I don't feel I need to say those words for people to know how I feel. I've realized because of this video that although being a woman I prefer validation over other forms of love. I don't care when someone says they love me, in fact it makes me feel a bit awkward because those are such strong words, that I feel are unnecessary unless in very very hard times. I get more enjoyment and feel better when people recognize my hard work, and believe that I will succeed in my goals, or simply just stay beside me as we walk through life without commentating on how we feel about each other, because we already have a mutual trust and don't need to express ourselves anymore than we do to achieve success.
I also encountered this, but in a more subtle way: I was talking with a coworker and somehow we ended up discussing about giving compliments to other people. I told her that I struggle with it and she was very puzzled and asked why. I couldn't really answer, yet I stumbled to a answer that my mouth formed on it's own and it was just some bullshit about "not wanting to peg their ego for I'm an ego-death idealist". But in that moment and ever since, I knew it was a far deeper problem stemming from something I had very little control over. I think it's simply this same thing: Saying "I love you" is a compliment of sorts, a very strong one. I could never say it to barely anyone, maybe the love of my life like once in a lifetime. 3 words that raise my pulse like I was about to do a skydive... It's not weakness I feel, but a weird form of emberrasment. Kinda similar when you get compliments and feel emberrased a bit. But it probably is weakness. There's is a clear feeling of "hollowness" while I give compliments, almost as I myself lost something. Lost what? The compliment I was storing? Integrity? My face? No clue...
@@jesustyronechrist2330 It leaves you vulnerable to tell someone you love them, because you don't know how they will respond. Will they laugh? Will they make fun of you? Will they reciprocate? Does it matter? etc. It's hard, but getting to the place where you know they could react in any way and yet you say it anyway, that is a form of strength and bravery. Hope this helps somehow.
See this is why your channel is so GOT DANG GOOD and has gotten so much traction. Because as you examine a part of a story and the depth of its layers and how fantastic and nuanced it is, you're also explaining how how those deeper themes apply to real life with a high level of your own nuance and treating these real subjects with the thought and respect they deserve. You're breaking down a huge number of things and how they are all connected both within the show and in the greater context of what the show (and your analysis) can each us as people interacting with others we have difficulty understanding. AND HOW TO WRITE BETTER. You do this super well and I don't normally comment on videos often but you have so consistently expanded my understanding and impressed me with your well explained takes on so many of your videos I really don't know how else to show my appreciation. These videos and especially your scripts are of such a high quality (like how your on screen text is often a more humorous way of saying what you're saying or a more detailed explanation to cover what the script couldn't fit naturally, great touch seriously) these must take a lot of work to make and I just hope positive feedback makes it feel worth it. Because let me tell ya brother my feedback is POSITIVE. You deserve every single subscription you get, including mine. ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐
im obsessed with how you explain things, the way you organize ur topics, n the clips/cuts you use. i think i've watched 10 of ur vids in a row over the past 12 hours
I feel like Arcane can teach people a lot about themselves as well. Im a woman, but I express love the way most men do. This was the first time that I watched a series and actually felt changed afterwards, and not just for an hour or two, but for good.
This is a fascinating video and one of the best definitions/discussions I've found on "fragile masculinity". It's not that masculinity is fragile in itself, but it's this purity aspect that isn't applied to femininity. I think it's a great way to discuss the differences between how people break gender roles between women and men as well as the double standards involved. It's definitely a good reason why we see more women with consistent masculine traits (especially in appearance) in contrast to men.
"sometimes violence is the answer" im framing that to my wall On a serious note though, i really love these gender related arcane videos. Keep up the good work snow
@@schnee1 "Frankly speaking I would perfer, when discoursing on nature, to utter useful things even if no one should understand, rather than to conform to popular opinion and thus gain the constant praise that comes from the many."- Epicurus
To be honest, in the moment where Vander strangled Silco, and when he was about to kill him later on, I interpreted it as a tragic moment for Vander's character -- to me his return to violence was a representation of a personal failure, in the 'war is a failure of statecraft' sense, implying that for all his strength, the situation arose because he was a weak leader.
Holy shit, I am really stunned by your reasoning that men's love language is Validation. That makes so much sense in real life. Just as you said, you could feel it but wasn't able to name it until you actually devoted time to think about it. I see that now, not only in men, and it literally opens a new level of understanding people for me. Thanks for making this video :)
I really appreciate your take on the topic of masculinity. I wish more men could see that countering toxic expectations on masculinity isn't just about freeing women, but about freeing men as well.
Old Vik is more of your sick, sad boy everyone fauns over. He looks like a vampire, not a sex symbol or a femboy. Now, that dude Mel's mom was with???? That's a meal everyone wants a bite of.
As someone who commented on your last video saying the "They write women as people" thing, I heavily appreciate the respectful and direct correction, you're a damn good person. My personal outlook on a lot of prejudice in current society is "everyone is a person, and people deserve to be treated equally" as racism and sexism are still prevalent, but who is the target has been *ever so slightly* tilting in the opposing direction over the past few years, which I feel needs to be addressed before the very people who have been victims unwittingly because the perpetrators in the far future. (prejudice in any group towards any other group is a problem, as it's unfounded.) The way you describe how Arcane writes women and men differently is definitely not problematic, and is helpful to both sides, and I appreciate being given a different viewpoint which is equally concerned for everyone as a whole and not just having a bias towards one group. Thank you for being so respectful, concerned for the correct interpretation of your own points, and lack of aggression towards those who incorrectly took your points previously. I'm seriously in admiration as that last thing is still something I struggle with. (It's no justification, but I just get very annoyed with having to repeat myself when someone takes what I say the completely wrong way). Also, just realised I didn't subscribe????, wtf???, I could have sworn I did after your last Arcane video but I guess not.
Eh, the concern about groups who have previously been subjected to prejudice becoming the ones who subject others to it is a little overblown imo. Historically disadvantaged groups still lack the systemic power to truly victimize the groups who have held most of the power. Of course, people from all groups will have individual biases and prejudices towards and against one another, but without overarching systemic influence, individual prejudice can't really do that much damage. The "both sides" analysis doesn't really work because both sides are not on equal footing. The voices of groups who have been victims of prejudice/discrimination are for sure becoming more prevalent, but little to no systemic power has shifted in their favor. And of course this doesn't excuse harmful attitudes that people from the less powerful groups may express, but I think it does contextualize it a bit. Again, as long as historically victimized groups lack systemic power, the historically advantaged groups aren't in any real danger of being reverse-victimized.
@@bromo8874 I agree with you wholeheartedly, and I want to reestablish that my whole stance in more of a "preventative" stance solely towards the concept of ensuring that as they do gain systemic power, that the prejudices are eliminated before they get to that point (in everyone, not just the groups who have been previously oppressed, that would be silly). I fully realise there is a difference, I'm not arguing that, what I'm saying is that it can reach a point where we might just be making excuses for people who really don't deserve it, based off superficial aspects like skin colour and gender and sexual orientation/identity. My stance is not focused on denying liberties or obviously important social acceptance to these groups, but simply ensuring that we're applying the same rulings to everyone regardless of factors outwidth sensible reasoning. Basically in a small example, if you don't hire someone because they're straight, it's the same as not hiring someone because they're gay. (and this would apply to all prejudices not just homophobia/heterophobia) There's factors outside of that that matter far more to almost all jobs, and the same consideration should be given to both sides of the coin rather than just one. My example is specifically looking at a case where the only decision made is based off of sexual orientation, just as the only examples that are actually a case of wrongdoing on the flipside are also cases where the decision was made based solely off of someone's sexual orientation. My confusion does often come from when people assume the circumstances I'm talking about, which I clearly state are to do with actual prejudice and not an action we can justify with "Ah, my ancestors treated them like crap, I'll not say anything about how they just said out loud that white people need to be purged as a joke". As, in that obvious example, it is a joke at the expense of a race of people who have systematically and politically abused them, which is fair as it's a joke and harmless. But my examples, and the situations I'm talking about, are cases where it would be a bit more like "Ah, this group of people who were systematically and politically abused by my ancestors are making up lies about how I put flaming crosses through their mail slot and called them slurs just because they have a socially reinforced concept of superiority from being the victim, and feel they deserve to be able to do this to me as I am of the same race as their ancestors oppressors" the specificness of those examples is only due to my own need to apply a story to them, and the second is a very clear cut example of racism without the added word baggage I applied, but that's what I'm trying to get at. It's hardly an uncommon occurrence when that sort of thing happens, just as it's hardly an uncommon occurrence on the flipside, I just feel both sides need to have attention brought to them to help show that prejudice isn't "exclusive" to the people who originally had said prejudice, and that it's far too easy to develop one without even realising it. Sorry for wall of text, this is a rare occasion where I'm able to actually speak my mind on this topic without feeling like I'm being attacked for something I don't actually believe in in the first place (defending hateful world views), and I guess my fingers took the chance to type out a bit too much.
@@bromo8874 They already have "systemic power" though. Or, more aptly, groups within Western society acting on their behalf against "oppressor groups" do. There are no laws or policies specifically targeted at disadvantaging "oppressed groups" but there are towards "oppressor groups." Furthermore, institutionalized ideological radicalization against these "oppressor groups" is another danger to their well-being beyond becoming systemically disadvantaged. It is frequently downplayed as sympathy or concern for an "oppressor group" is something seen to be deserving of mockery but ideological radicalization is what creates groups like the EFF and leads to them becoming the 3rd largest party in the South African parliament.
@@bromo8874 It's not apt to phrase it as "becoming the ones..." because it is true both can be subject to it at the same time. And this new issue will need to be addressed at some point because indignity does not scale linearly with strife. Say white people become harrassed and discriminated about... 10% what the average black person is. They won't feel 10% as indignated. It would probably be like half, taking into account the motions to try and advantage this historically disadvantaged group. Multiply half by five times the population, and the average sentiment becomes anti-black again. I would not call the concern overblown because I've barely seen this concern covered at all.
@A Midnight Dreary I know this was months ago but I just want to say that no racist policy is going to explicitly mention race anymore, I could make a tax against sunburns and say this tax has nothing to do with race but you know that this policy will tax white people more then anyone else. Institutional racism is subtle and it's very much still here, just look at the lawsuit going on right now in the south where state agricultural departments and southern banks were caught working to bankrupt black farmers.
God I remember this exact conversation in a sociology class once. Something to the effect, masculinity is something you do, but femininity is what you are. Men have to constantly preform masculinity at risk of loosing it. Women however cannot escape femininity because femininity will always be considered default for them whereas masculinity is something that has to be constantly upkept. Don't remember exactly that's just part of what I remember.
Something interesting is that if you define Fatherhood as validating the child and Motherhood as protecting the child...I'd argue both Silco and Vander do both as well. Vander validates Vi in several key ways, letting her go on missions, giving her space to lead the team, teaching her to fight and taking pride in her winning the fight with Silco's street toughs. But, he also struggles to protect Vi, most notably his attempt to take the fall for Vi in Episode 3. And his entire relationship with Powder is built on protection. His dying words are literally her telling Vi to keep Powder safe. And Silco is oftentimes spending more screentime openly protecting (or, at least, doing what he *thinks* is protecting) Jinx. Silco shields Jinx from repercussions on multiple occasions, but most notably uses the Firelights as a decoy for her after her progress day heist. And, if we're to believe him, he was always planning to turn down Jayce's deal for a free Zaun PURELY to protect her from those same repercussions. He takes her to Singed after the bridge fight to save her (arguably, more of a healing thing, but, again, is about keeping her from facing consequences) and he even stands up to the Chem Barons, his own people who are keeping him in power, to defend her. Arguably, again, if he's to be believed, him trying to capture Vi before Jinx found out was to also protect her feelings. I also feel like there's something of a transition for both parents. When we first see Vander and Vi's relationship, it's built almost entirely on respect and validation. Vander is chastising her for being reckless while still finding ways to praise her, pointing out how the others look up to her (ie, indicating that she is successful as a leader figure) and ending on an off-hand comment implying he's proud she can stand up to these much older bruisers in a fight. Towards the end, though, his focus has shifted to just keeping her safe. First he goes to Benzo's shop to take the fall for the opening heist in Vi's place. Then, at factory, he tries to send Vi away to protect her. And his final act is giving up his revenge and rage to save Vi from the fire. As I hinted at before, his first real scene (dealing with the outsiders at the bar) is about validation, demanding they honor their end of a deal when dealing in the Lanes, and his final scene is about protection, saving Vi and then telling her to keep Powder safe. Silco is the opposite. His opening scene is comforting Powder, pulling her into an embrace (a traditionally protective and comforting gesture) and telling her he'll save her from being alone. And while there are plenty of moments where he does validate (telling her he trusts her with the hextech, sharing his baptism moment with her), his primary actions remain being about shielding Jinx from the consequences of her actions. But then, his final moment, while dying from wounds she gave him, he validates her completely in a way no character has before. I'm not sure if there's a parallel there, but I find it interesting that these characters, made to be mirrors of each other, have opposing but reflective arcs in their parenting style.
I think is bs how one action is labeled differently depending on if a man or woman does it. You say the hug was malt and protective. But let me guess, loving and kind of a woman did it. This is just an issue I’m pointing out. Not an attack.
@@MinosML Silco does chastise her at one point, but it doesn't last very long. She disarms him pretty quickly when she shows that her recklessness paid off when she presents him with the stone.
RE: Silco's makeup - he's not wearing it when he's introduced. He's in his oceanic observatory, interrogating Deckard, and treating his eye. He's got no makeup. Nor does he have that makeup when he's in the factory, interrogating Vander or fighting against the kids.
Silco starts wearing makeup after he adopts Jinx.
He wears the makeup not to hide his weakness from his underlings, but to look less monstrous for his daughter.
This is head canon in my head now and no one is changing that!
Oh, well now there's a thought!
I love this so much, that he didn't care about what anyone thought of his appearance... Until it was his daughter.
I love this! But i also love the idea that jinx introduced him to it and taught him how hahah, maybe both
@@elenav.5470 Imagine Sevika walking into Silco's office and 13 y/o Jinx is sitting on his desk doing his makeup.
“Validation is the masculine equivalent to professing love” reminded me of the line from Mulan where Shang, instead of telling Mulan how much he’s grown to love her over their adventure together simply says “You.. fight good”
wow, what a perfect example O.o
The greatest gift and honour is having you for a daughter.
@@niteglys What a line
@@niteglys another good example and a good line too
"The flower that blooms in adversity is the most rare and beautiful of all."
"You don't meet a girl like that every dynasty."
I'm surprised you didn't mention that two men make the choice to become single fathers (to daughters, even). Nurturing and childcare are often seen as feminine, but these two characters easily "survived" parenting their daughters. Just the opening image of Vander, the burliest male character, dropping his weapons at the sight of crying children, and Silco very quickly switching from being a violent aggressor to embracing a crying girl --- they were both very strong choices to give to male characters.
Also Marcus was a single father
@@boredishfish2717 Marcus is a father??
Well neither Silco nor Vander "survived" their daughter, heh
@@davidlz830 there's a whole scene where Silco threatens Marcus's daughter, he shows up with two goons directly into Marcus's house and plays with his daughter, it's why Marcus makes the blockade at the bridge
@@lorenzodefez3906 Oh i though Marcus was somebody different for a sec my bad
14:37 Maybe needing validation is why Silco takes in Powder. If he can raise Vander's daughter better than Vander could, it would validate Silco to himself.
Additionally, Silco never recieved validation from Vander, who was like a brother. So he empathizes with Powder, who is constantly seeking validation from Vi
this!!
Great point! Powder definitely instantly validates him that first moment with the hug, and that seems to be what creates a big change in him.
@@schnee1 Also, it is really trivial for Silco to outdo Vander - Vander never says one line directly to powder at all in the entire show. He only has one or two lines directed at all the kids including Powder. The one chance he gets to show affection and concern for Powder he blows by realizing the bunny means Vi is in trouble and leaving Powder alone to turn himself in. In this way Vander's two interactions with Powder are carrying her on the bridge at the beginning and abandoning her for Vi. I know he isn't meant to seem neglectful and he certainly displays and mentions concern for Powder to Vi multiple times, but it is astonishing how little he actually interacts with the little girl.
@@ronhoward121 my read on that situation is that he tries but he doesn't get Powder. She is so different from him, and all the hard lessons he's learned in his life about leadership and thr burdens that come with it resonates much more strongly with Vi.
So while he tries to be available and comforting to Powder, he doesn't know what she's thinking but he can basically mind read Vi.
Nailed it. Might’ve been opportunist/spur of the moment but I’m sure there was something to prove in a sense
“The stereotype of what guys want to hear from their fathers isn’t ‘I love you,’ it’s ‘I’m proud of you.”
*not a father but makes a mental note to compliment the men in my life more often*
Don't even need to say it with words, just showing you enjoy hanging out with the bros can show you appreciate them.
Really put in perspective why I always enjoyed the times I hanged with a friend and we'd just walk around the city, sometimes not saying a word for minutes.
@@GabrielShitposting
Yeah, that’s my favorite way to hang out with people regardless (imma but socially awkward, lol) so it’s nice to hear other people can enjoy that just as much as words.
Will do!
Aren't these both lines important? I guess love without respect and respect without love both make the relationship incomplete.
@@TaLila360 i guess you need to feel love to express validation towards someone
@@TaLila360 well love can be just as much 'for them' as it is 'for you'. Someone saying "i love you" could just as likely mean that they are attached to you because you serve a purpose to them.
Men especially deal a lot with being seen and used as tools throughout their lives (especially when you consider how much capability takes center point to a sign of your masculinity) so when you're starved of that feeling of being worth something beyond how useful you are, hearing "I love you" can be hard to believe without there being some paranoia that it has some hints of "I need you" in it rather that "I want you for who you are" which would be more validating.
This is why just sitting around shooting the shit with a bro tends to feel better than direct confessions of love (for those who aren't also starved of the latter). Like the video says: the thing the defines men's issues currently is a lack of validation.
I'd make the case that Viktor's stereotypically masculine trait, more than even sucking up emotions, was his refusal to ask for help. He's dying and he knows it, but it's only once he's absolutely critical will he tell his best friend. If Jayce had known about Viktor's condition sooner he would have worked day and night to find anything to help him.
Exactly all he needed to do was ask!
But i think this is more of a cripple thing than a male thing.
I almost NEVER ask for help when it is something not rivial. And even for the trivial stuff i had to work hard to break that habit.
For example when i go shopping i would rather get up for my wheelchair cause myself PHYSICAL PAIN to reach a shelf instead of asking a bystander to grab the thing. I know it is wrong but i just keep doing it. and it depends on my mood i guess if aks for help instead of doing it myself.
like I find if physically revolting to ask for help.
I think it comes from a childhood of people treating you like an invalid someone made of glass that cant do anything on their own and will shatter at any moment.
@@aziouss2863 This just proves how profoundly Viktor was written without complete focusing on just his gender, and i like to think that there was focus on many other factors apart from just gender when it comes to all the male characters. Class, fears, loss, attachment issues, dreams, these all drive the men more than just what we'd imagine would be their stereotypical course of action.
Also i do hope you find more ppl close to you that see you for who you really are and make you feel worthy despite the fact that you may need more help or accomodation than society is willing to give. You deserve to feel safe and valuable in asking for help, because we all have that right, and none of us can go through this life completely alone
Victor’s character arc reminds me HEAVILY of Walter White from Breaking Bad.
•A dying Genius
•Refusal for assistance
•A decent into corruption
Both characters seek to be their own solution as a remedy of their emasculation. Walter White is mocked by those around him, living a life of hardship, while witnessing the “what could’ve-been” in the form of Eliot & Gretchen Schwartz.
Viktor is considered an outsider from Zaun, facing ailments that threaten his life, leaving him physically inadequate and struggling, all while having his intelligence being disregarded.
In the end, they both desire redemption through glory at the cost of their former being, thus corruption (be it recognition for White or Viktor’s success in hextech).
These men have been put down for so long that the only cure is to come out on top AND of their own volition, even if it means standing alone because there must be no dispute who got it done.
@@scarletmoon95 Thank you for your words and I assure you that you don't need to worry.
Short of a gf i have everything.
My professional life is mostly set with me currently doing a PhD in CS.
I got friends I cherish and who don't treat me like I am any different. Like they are not afraid to make jokes or make fun of me. I want you to imagine the stereotypical male friendship where the harder you insult somebody the more you love them. These fuckers are also the first to help carry me in the beach so I can "swim". Society has also been very accommodating in general i was able to go to foreign country and thrive where i am currently doing my Phd :D
He never does ask for help. He invents the Hexcore all by himself and then presents it to Jayce, He discovered its reaction with plants himself and Shows it to Heimerdinger.
When he goes to Singed, it is to tell him about the progress he made, indeed to discretely get his assistance, but He never mentions that He wants to use the shimmer on himself. He lies and says its for the plant, but Singed sees through that
He isn't only unwilling to accept help, he desires acknowledgement and respect for the work he does by himself.
He sees himself as weak and unworthy, and wants his inventions to take the spotlight.
He wants his work to be loved and respected, because its close enough to him that he can feel the pride about it succeeding, but far enough from him as to not be tainted by his perceived impurity.
Another addition to Silco's moments, he has and uses Stuff with Jinx's drawing/painting all over it despite being a strong man dictator.
#proudevildad
Det sku ogs rigtigt, satanen får fandme det hele fra den lille pige
The fact that he is a twisted version of a good father made me actually interested in watching the series besides the LoL adaptation
Actually it's normal for a man to have these trinkets. It's considered a sign of a family man so to say
@@MohamedRamadan-qi4hl it is, but often - and I think that's what this comment's trying to say, a father is a "emasculated" in a lot of media, ex househusbands or soft fathers ect
i think viktor being disabled ties into the whole “suck it up” mentality as well, as disabled people tend to internalize a lot of their struggles because they’re already perceived as weak/lesser than in society. good video!
@@SmartCreeper I think it's not because he sees himself as weak. It's because it seems like everyone else does and I think that's what Viktor gets. He is "a crippled kid from the undercity". As a disabled scientist*, I agree with ari. It's not that we think we are weak. But we suck it up to prove everyone else wrong. We have to show that we are stronger and cleverer to be perceived as "worthy". And I also agree with you on the related part. Sometimes it's really hard to relate to people when you feel like they just won't understand you. Not fully. Even Jayce didn't get Viktor entirely.
*yeah, basically female Viktor here, just not that brilliant.
They are kinda weak, I remember fight some girl that can use his legs and was an easy knock out
As a disabled person this is very true. Though it dose make you more open in a way sense you always have to be ready to have the chat about it lol
That and being sickly as I am it makes your far more mentally strong especially when you repeatedly make it out of sickness episodes alive. Maybe he's not sucking it up, maybe like me he's just ignoring the normality of life and the emotional aspects and trying his best to use his short life to do something meaningful for those around him.
As a... I don't want to say, disabled, but I guess there's no other word for it. Because of a problem in my genetics, my joints are fucked up and movement hurts. It hurts constantly, everywhere. But because of "suck it up, be a man", I don't tell people about it much in person. I act like I'm fine when I'm barely able to walk that day. And it fucks me over when I need someone to help me with a problem they didn't know I had.
If I had gone to a doctor when this first started, I may be okay today. But I didn't, I sucked it up.
And now it gets worse every year.
"There is no feminine version of the word 'emasculate'" THAT is a cool ass point
Well, because men are considered higher in the hierarchy. So if you’re immaculated, you “fall” to the level of a woman. Women have nowhere to fall in adult people hierarchy, so they’re just dehumanised or pushed to the level of little children
It makes pefect sense because women do have masculine hormones yet men are not supposed to have them, and their impact in the mindset and behavior is strong and relevant. It's ok for women to be more masculine or from time to time and testosterone will be working there and it's natural, but getting that feminine-hormonal side in behavior for men is not so common, perhaps not even natural, and breaks the masculine normalcy, so to speak.
@@MetalthinkerYTdude what the actual hell are you writing about
that line got me thinking, too, and it makes sense. femininity IS seen as the lowest point you can be in a patriarchy. if you're purely feminine, you're hardly a person. you can't go lower than "rock bottom." so (in the lens of a patriarchal setting) you can't be "stripped" of your feminity because there's nothing else to "lose."
... or maybe i'm thinking too much into it. i dunno!
edit: JUST IN CASE i want to specify i'm NOT sharing my opinion on femininity lol. if not obvious from my pfp i'm very feminine myself, nothing wrong with it !!
@@minsk8405 manosphere gibberish
"We do not get a celebrity male sex symbol"
Me staring at the local cuisine:
HAHA the fact that that dude was also at the brothel
@@hungrybeakstudios472 WHERE??? time to rewatch arcane
@@myralee1760 ruclips.net/video/9923muyq_2k/видео.html
@@myralee1760 in the scene with the kindred masks
@@mira.r hey they may not know who kindred is lol
as a girl speaking, i love how everyone in this show gets to be badass in their own way. men and women can be badass without undermining each other. the women can fight well without needing the men to be weak so the writer can push a message about how superior women are. the men get to be badass without women needing to be damsels in distress so men can seem more badass.
We’re all damsels in distress sometimes
Hollywood needs to learn from this
@@Meraxes6 depressed people nodding along
And that they can be a badass in a non-violent way, or without having to be in a physical fight.
@@blutygar yeah. i agree. mel is a master politician and how skilled she is at it is badass. she's one of my favourite characters.
Moments of weakness in men that don't create lasting character change is so powerful, thanks for focus on that!
oh whoa! thanks!! I was serious when I said you didn't have to!
I actually really find the "local cuisine" character interesting. He doesn't even have any lines, but he has some interesting implications to me. He is using some very feminine qualities to his advantage, he's thin, and kinda soft looking to me, he is using his presentation and sex appeal to get things. Ambessa is very powerful in multiple ways and likely is getting the best of what Piltover has to offer for any given thing she wants. That to me says he is likely pretty expensive. So while Mr. Meal is showing very feminine qualities and using feminine qualities, he is likely getting something that men are usually shown wanting, status and wealth. Look at Ambessa and tell me being her favorite boy toy does not instantly give you power just from association. And just from some lines that Mel says, it is implied that Ambessa also has filthy money that Man Candy is now being given for his services. So it has depth of presentation of men even in a side character we barely see.
it's a lowkey double standard, when women are sex symbols they get elevated in society and become the leaders but when men are sex symbols, they are the local cuisine
Thanks. From now on, I'll be referring to this character as "Mr. Meal"
@@alvinbellamy5476 I'm actually pretty proud of that one. :)
He also kinda looks a bit like the girl Ambessa slaughtered in Mel's childhood.
I know this is off topic but I would love to hear other peoples' thoughts on this. I think "Mr Meal" is a spy. He can be seen in the brothel scene in Zaun, wearing a mask. The camera lingers on him in a way that would be weird if he only were a random pleasure boy. I believe there is more to him especially since it is implied by the brothel owner that information is tossed around at that place, when she talks about Silco's second in command (Zevika) going there regularly and offers to gather information from her for Vi. He might simply be Ambessa's inside man in Zaun/Piltover. Or maybe someone in Zaun is interested in what Amessa is up to.
Great thing about how men and women were portrayed in arcane is that they’re all capable in some way or another. No gender triumphs over the other as if they’re more superior.
For example, with the jinx and ekko fight, we know that both characters are smart, they have their own way of fighting, and we generally see them as equals. When ekko beats jinx up and completely manhandles her, it doesn’t make us squirm. At least in my experience, I didn’t. I’m a girl and in most media, you just feel an overwhelming difference in power with men and women so seeing a girl get totally wrecked in a fight makes me feel queasy.
With ekko and jinx, however, we feel as though they are on even grounds so whoever wins, it’s because of their ability and them as a character, not because of their gender. Pretty cool.
And then the fight also ends in a draw, further reinforcing this feeling of balance.
another reason onto the pile of why the ekko vs jinx fight was on another level
mine was just Marksman vs Assassin/Fighter, so obviously Jinx would suck if Ekko gets near her, but I prefer yours lmao
Completely agree with you, now that you mention it I see the strong contrast too.
remember the first fire light scene, where Jinx pretty much triumphs over the fire lights? Well, she didnt protect all that stuff as she should have done, but she hit their butts pretty hard.
Validation is even a theme for jinx. She's the youngest so when we see powder do the things the older kids tell her to do there is never any compliments or congratulations. It's expected of her to just do the tasks like everyone else. I noticed Vander is so compassionate and complimentary and guides the older children. They forget that voice that guidance is what got them through their fearful moments and allowed them to get to where they are. Powder was expected to just catch up to them. Vi is the only one you see compliment and congratulate her but since she's the only one her betrayal is even more painful. The only person who believes in you says you are a failure
And not only does nobody validate her, she even hears Milo constantly invalidating her - calling her a jinx, saying she can't do anything, saying she's not as good as her sister was etc. Vi was the only person that gave her validation. Vander may have validated her 'off screen' since he was a very caring father figure, we don't know that but let's assume he did. And then Vander died and Vi seemingly abandoned her after repeating Milo's words and she was adopted by a man who immediately validated her ('We will show them all'). No wonder Jinx and Silco had such a strong bond
Powder in general gives Silco a way to be emotional. He sees her as a young version of himself equally wronged by society. Where Silco fought bitterly against Vanders betrayal and it permanently turned him colder and more distant, Vi's betrayal to Powder made her cry and run into Silco's arms. She reacted to crisis with emotional instability and vulnerability, which was probably a huge shock to Silco. He saw the raw emotions he felt being displayed outwardly and felt the protective and simultaneously vengeful urge to push that to it's max. This pairs pretty well with the father-daughter bond archetype, where one is cold and the other isnt, but it embodies it in a whole new way by having the composed and intelligent father be the clear-cut villain, and the unstable emotional daughter being both the villain and the victim.
In a lot of ways, to your point, Jinx represents Silcos inner demons and as an avatar for expressing his rage against the world. He accepts his inner demons (and Jinx) completely but naturally relies on a very calm and collected approach. Jinx is able to serve many roles for Silco as a daughter, as an apprentice type that he can pass the torch to, as an avatar for expressing the chaos inside of him. It is definitely an interesting dynamic with the appropriate conclusion..
@@JakeBananas Agreed 100%
saying vi betrayed powder is taking it too far.But no doubt she played a part in powder ending up in silco's arm unknowingly.
Villain is a hero from villian point of view.
@@binayshrestha7132 vi did betray her. All she ever wanted was for Vi to validate her. she ended up with a fat lip and was abandoned for years lol
@@JakeBananas being an elder sister she wanted to protect powder.also how is it a betrayal when powder herself is the one who wanted the validation of which vi is totally unaware of.
I felt like Caitlyn's dad held a fairly strong "homemaker" role, his wife was a prominent and active political leader, and the scenes with him he often defers directly to her. While not overtly feminine he seems farther down the masculine scale despite an incredible beard.
I agree! I hope we see more of that in the next season.
Hell if my wifes fine ass is on the council.. ima cook ima clean ima have her dinner ready 😤
Wow, you are are marking him down on masculinity because he isn't a political leader and his wife is? It's a normal relationship, jesus christ.
@@ma_de_sa5848 "homemaker" isn't generally a masculine role, so yeah he's atypical of what would be considered a strong male. He's the one removing shrapnel from Cait (nursing and caretaking are also seen as feminine traits) and most likely isn't the one who taught her to shoot (her mother is the one with a rifle kicking in the door to their daughter's room). None of this has any bearing on his presence as a caring and skilled father, only that his wife is the one presented as the more masculine and authoritative of the two.
@@skyefox so if a navy seal removes shrapnel from his brothers leg &patches him up does that make them "feminine"? LMAOOO do u ppl even hear yourselves??
As a women I've told another female friend, "I'm so proud of you." We were just sitting in the car after something and then she broke down crying. I said "ahhh shit I'm sorry..." (I don't know how to act sometimes and I acknowledge that irl) and she told me "no, no, you're fine. It just reminded me of my dad, and how I'll never etc.."
I'm a pretty masculine woman so I feel like we all know this subconsciously.
Like if Mel's mother said "I'm so proud of you, I didn't see it before but I do now." That would be huge and probably hit us all harder than "I love you Mel." Because we can see the love in how protective she is, how she reached out to try to give her daughter advice but she is a masculine woman.
(Please correct me if she already said that shes proud bc I need to watch it all for the 3rd time)
She hasn't.
The closest she came was admitting that Mel made her weak... But that's about as far from "proud" as you can get, really...
Go take it tumblr this is a male site made by men for men we love men here who have higher suicde rates then women and actually need to help and support from media yall dont need a main character role for cooking food we risk out shit for your sake to live here the least you can do is give us the driver seat or leave man make your own country made of women for women cause this country this platfrom and the whole concept of media was made to inspire men to bd strong.
You people lie and act like women are so vulnerable and say men shouldnt say rude stuff to them cause they are more emotional meanwhile male suicde rates are way higher then female. Out of your ego and men having a reason to live and keep our country going i gotta say i always liked zuko more anyway. Theirs a place for your foolish charater but its kotaras place not koras to start off unable to accept your role in society is a real thing and to slowly grow to become your true potential your true purpose as a female human a side character. You are so offended by something that is true their isnt a korra in real life that out preform3d men the richest women divorced jeff bezos for her money
You probably laughed at the jeff bezo line tell me again how we need to be more kind to women who seem to be more self centered and greedy for shit they had no hand in making, yall were happy to not help when we were gqetting electricity charged to death naking the technology its a good thing you think you deserve it once we make it
I agree ! I also was feeling that girls/woman need their dad approval and not just love. It's actually a big trope in fictional stories also
i was kinda lost and then you described how validation plays a role in the representation of men and then it clicked. as a girl who loves to create stories, i’m just now realizing how important it is to gain a new perspective. yeah, the women video was great and perfectly embodied a lot of feelings i associate with feminism that i had yet to consciously understand, but i’m now realizing what an immense lack of perspective i have on men.
the saying that goes along the lines of “just write women as people” is important, but it doesn’t always apply. your take was phenomenal and eye-opening-men and woman do share different struggles based on societal norms of both masculinity and femininity, and therefor can be addressed in a story in a very empowering way if done right.
the stories i have been creating sofar in my life have been VERY reliant on a female perspective. yes, this is because it connects to me more as a female, but seeing it now, it was the easy way out. writers that only stick to their one perspective in life probably won’t get very far in terms of characters. of course, this is because a writer will likely run the risk of not having very diverse characters or that they won’t be very deep, considering that they’re all just the embodiment of the writers lone perspective. this idea also kind of relates to writing characters that embody tropes because it’s the easy way out of seeing a new perspective. you take a stereotypical character that’s about as shallow as a puddle and then input them into a story with no explanation for these traits or experiences to back it up.
coming to this new conclusion about how character’s experiences affect who they are seems to be a really effective tool to create characters. sure, it’s obvious, but for some reason it can be difficult to include in the character creation process mostly because it feels intimidatingly complex. i’ll still have to do some trial and error with this concept so i can dumb it down enough for myself, but otherwise this is very helpful. i adore all the insight these videos give :)
Best of luck to you fellow writer, there seems to be a lot of us in these comments and I was taking all the notes in this and the female video.
If you wanted a place to start on learning male character building, from my own experience brotherhood would be the easiest but most impactful thing to get nailed down before tackling the rest of the points brought up in this video.
Glad you've found the videos helpful! Hope you can find a balance that suits you! I think women's perspectives on men and vice versa can be valuable and make for good writing as well. Although obviously expanding perspectives can only be a good thing. Best of luck in your writing!
as a fellow not-man writer who was raised as a girl I relate to you a lot on this, I've always struggled writing male characters bc I had no idea how men really *worked.*
like I didn't (and kinda still don't atm) have any positive/close relationships with men, and to dig myself into a bit of a deeper hole I'm a lesbian and have had negative experiences with a handful of men in my life, particularly my father (as well as socialization from my mother, telling me to "stay away from men because they're dangerous"). So naturally I'd be a bit more bitter towards men, and even now I tend to push them away as a defense mechanism (still working on improving :'>). But yeah-I've noticed I struggle writing men over women (the men in my story used to be too "feminine" and something felt off, at the moment I didn't know what) and this video was so incredibly insightful
(I could also start rambling about my gender and how I think that affects the way I am in regards to society's typical roles but that's going to make this comment reaaal long-I am non-binary if you haven't guessed, specifically genderfluid)
Literally same, when he started talking about the importance of validation between men, I felt like I had to start taking notes because this was exactly what I was looking for with regards to my writing.
I'm glad some women are taking useful things from this video. There seems to be a tendency in feminist spaces to write men to be so stereotypically evil that they're caricatures. Or so feminine that they're just stand ins for negative stereotypes about women.
I was one of the people who said "write women like people" in a more proverbial sense. What I actually meant was "write women without stereotype" and I think the same applies to men.
Sure our traditional role is the "protector" but that takes a lot of different forms, and one of our unique struggles is accepting our way of doing so, or feeling like failures if we can't or don't want to. I think Arcane does this spectacularly with Viktor.
Viktor wants to protect his people of the undercity, through using his newfound privilege, and when he realises he'll die before hextech reaches the mines, he feels like he's failed and pushes himself to the extreme, and we see later after that doesn't work the path many men go down: self destruction. Many men would rather die than face the shame than failing those they felt responsible for.
But what arcane does really well is explore how Viktor doesn't want to beat up everyone in Piltover for making the undercity the mess it is, he wants to build everyone up, and he needs to be reminded that he has built people up to stop him taking his own life. He built everyone else up but was tearing himself down in the process, and it's only when he starts to lift himself up alongside others that he starts to heal.
It's just one example, but it's a good example of how male characters shouldn't be written as evil monsters who only want to hurt and boss around women, but characters free from stereotype; maybe evoking gender expression for their themes, but owning their themes uniquely without relying on said expression.
The "men express love through validation"-thing hit me deep. I've been struggling with the fact that I'm too embarrassed to tell my closest group of friends that I love them. I never thought I'd have movie-tier best friends, but these guys are really some of my favourite people in the world. And we sometimes say something to that extent, but I'm always embarrassed when things go in that direction, even though I don't want to be. In many ways I'm a pretty feminine guy, and as such I think I value directly telling people I care about them more than guys usually do.
But despite this, this video made me realise that I already tell my friends that I love them in all these other ways you described. I never hesitate to compliment and validate them whenever I can. We spend lots of quality time together, having a drink when we get to meet up in person, playing videogames when not, or just hanging out in the voice chat (because I'm currently living in a different city). And I do feel this deep bond when we do that.
I still wish I wasn't so damn embarrassed to just say it with words, but this does make me feel a lot better about myself, 'cause it turns out I've been saying "I love you guys" all along, I just didn't know it.
EDIT: I did it, guys! Told my friends I love ‘em, and it felt amazing. Gotta thank some of the comments here, especially the one saying I’d regret it if I don’t say it out loud. That one stuck in my head ‘till I couldn’t take it anymore. And I’m glad it did.
Bro, literally when one of my boys said I love man it hits different. Don't be afraid to share how you feel to those you love. Life to short for that.
I'm happy for you
tbh life´s too short to worry, i lost people before i could tell them what i felt, go for it im sure you´ll feel better.
Okay alternate reality me, I’m just going to continue talking with my friends on discord and playing a game with them from a different city while I pretend like you didn’t just stroll right past my defences and whispered a summary of my emotional state directly into my soul 😳
Despite troubles with self-esteem (much more so when I was younger), I've always had the resolve to be myself and do what I think is right regardless of external pressure, and so I've thankfully never been afraid to tell my closest friends that I love them. Back in my school days I was a little embarassed by it, but it only felt truthful to say that I loved my friends, and so I did. I do so sparingly, as I prefer to not wear out my words, but by now I'm unafraid to say it when I feel the time is right.
I'm more of a masculine man myself, but I like to set the example that men can be openly caring and still feel comfortable in their manhood, and do away with the idea that it's "gay" or "girly". There should be nothing strange about letting those closest to you know that you love them from time to time.
"What men want to hear from their fathers isn't 'I love you' it's 'I'm proud of you'" is a line that is so true it made me cry. Thank you for this. Amazing video!!
Meanwhile, women need compassion, not validation. They don't really care if they're the strongest or not, they need compassion stuff. I see it right from my mother
Bingo! "Arcane shows men surviving emasculating moments," was part of the beauty of the show to me. It reminds me of a quote that read something like, "Being weak is not to be shamed, but staying weak is the problem."
The quote you said was told in black clover if i remember correctly
@@nael3353 this quote is mentioned in millions of media works and is an old quote
@@newt2120 Ok, thanks!
or having weaknesses does not make you weak
Arcane shows most men surviving emasculating moments, but Deckard is so freaked out by being emasculated that Silco is able to play him like a fiddle.
One of my favourite things about how Jayce is written is how unapologetic he is about his emotions. He's very emotionally expressive and very in touch with his emotions (not always with those of others' but that's a whole different topic). He freely expresses both positive and negative emotions and isn't emasculated or punished for it. He's extremely physically affectionate with his loved ones regardless of gender and it's never questioned or ridiculed in-universe. Traditionally the only emotion men are allowed to express is anger, which is then either brushed off as "boys will be boys" or critiqued. And I love especially how this quality comes into play in his relationship with Mel who spends most of the show as emotionally closed off but for some brief moments slipping here and there. She is initially caught off guard by his vulnerability and openness in ep. 6 but then she encourages it in the next episode, she goes into his space when he's working off his frustration and encourages him to speak about his feelings. And she starts sharing in return and opening herself to the possibility of being vulnerable and in touch with her emotions. In the last episode you see her channel all of her hurt, anger and sorrow in the confrontation with her mother, who immediately chastises her for it: "I taught you better." This open display of emotion is clearly Jayce's influence.
Furthermore he's a character whose closest personal relationships are mostly with women. His best friend is Caitlyn and the show implies their relationship is much closer than even that between him and Viktor, which gets way more screentime. He loves his mother. He loves and admires Mel and comes to value her opinion over anyone else's: "You were right. You were always right." and validates her at every turn. Hell, even the sex scene with Mel positions him as a giver, caring more about Mel's pleasure than his own. And there is a begrudging respect for Vi even though their interaction don't start or end with the two of them on the best of terms. Man drinks his respect women juice for breakfast, lunch and dinner.
He feels more of a emotional dumpster for women rather than his own character.
@@grinko1222 not really, hes a very well written character and doesnt exactly have many women 'emotionally dumping' on him in any time of this show, its just being in a relationship and opening up to people lol
Looks like Tony Stark has a competition
stoicism FTW
@@grinko1222 He only has one scene where he has a woman emotionally dumps on him and that’s with Mel. Y’know, his partner. The one that he rested on the lap of and vented to. Because that’s what you do in healthy relationships. You talk to each other and let your feelings be known. He opens up to her and she opens up to him.
The line of "write them the same no matter the gender" always rubbed me wrong but never had a good argument to explain why.
A great video
I mean... The answer to that has always been pretty obvious.
Would you write an adult and a child the same way? No? Then why do it for genders?
@@lyntonfleming This analogy speaks to something true in about the most grossly wrong way possible. Adults and children aren't different because of how society treats the two differently, nor are they different because of subtle, poorly understood psychological differences, they're different because of the massive gap in physical size, life experience, and brain development.
If I were to take your analogy further, I could say "you don't write women like men because you don't write humans like animals", which, when said out loud, is obviously wrong.
It makes sense for deep future sci-fi and basically nothing else.
@@nef36 ah yes.
I mention age and suddenly I'm comparing one gender to animals.
Absolute madlad. Those mental gymnastics must have broken every bone in your body.
@@lyntonfleming Don't put words in my mouth. I gave you an absurd metaphor on purpose to show you that your metaphor, while not as stupid as my "stupid on purpose" metaphor, was, in fact, stupid.
The fact that you ignored my first paragraph and I had to explain the second paragraph to you should speak volumes of your ability to participate in discussions like this, but I digress.
As someone who got the "suck it up" and "deal with it" too many times to count, Victor is a very relatable character for me. About two years ago my mother was diagnosed with brain cancer. It was a nightmare to see her in this state. My aunts and grandparents from her side helped her a lot, but always complained that we (me, my brothers and father) don't do enough even though we live with her and do help however we can. Because I was told to suck it up so many times, I ended up not crying at my mom's funeral when it finally happened and to this day I'm unable to shed tears.
Now here is the kicker: when I complained and asked for mental help in dealing with the situation or wanted to do something for myself to help my mental state, just to talk with someone and release some stress, I always got: "This is not the time, we need you here doing X" or as the video says: "suck it up". My mom is literally dying from cancer, and I'm told to "deal with it".
This is the extreme part, but it always was like that. For example: a relative will tell a joke about me and embarrass me in front of everyone, I complained, and told to suck it up. However, if I sucked it up, the embarrassment will continue and get more extreme. "What is a man if he can't joke about himself?".
Because I got told "suck it up" so many time, I usually work alone and don't complain when something bad happens. "Suck it up" is a curse on us men.
This happens to women too and btw is your mum ok now did she recover a little bit
@@tonystonem9614 my mom passed away a year ago.
Also, I'm not saying this doesn't happen to woman too. I even know a woman who had to deal with an unfourtunate event and had to suck it up.
@@FrostedMikeI'm so sorry abt your mum insha'Allah she's in heaven btw what cancer did she have
@@tonystonem9614 Brain cancer. I will spare you the horrors of how it feels like talking with someone in this state.
@@FrostedMike that sounds terrible your poor mum my grandfather had a stroke then died after a bit and he was getting names mixed up calling me my mum's name and my brothers my uncles
I also love the fact that Silco despite everything genuinely loves and protects Jinx and it's so often that I see villain male characters casting aside or using female characters as shields or abandoning them because god forbid he lets a woman get in the way of his goal. But Silco literally gave up undercity's independence as not to betray Jinx, even after she killed him he wasn't angry at her. Meanwhile when you see archetypes like Joker and Harley Quinn, Harley will always be used and disregarded by Joker. Whilst both archetypes are valid and show different kinds of personalities I see the latter far more often
mostly because there is nothing more loyal than either a lover or a daughter. Sons can usurp fathers, but it's assumed that the loyalty when the gender is reversed is irrevocable. So the villain casting it aside and disrespecting her is supposed to make him seem vile, villainous and repulsive!
Wait what did I miss? I thought silco WAS going to give up jinx. That scene of him talking to vander's statue is him admitting it and jinx caught him
@@coleeckert6182 no, the opposite. He's cursing his weakness because he was offered everything he wanted and couldn't bear to give up Jinx for it. He was so proud of seeing himself as a mastermind and moving pawns, but when Jayce said "Give up Jinx. She has to face her crimes. She was the head of everything we were stopping." He couldn't argue otherwise.. and he couldn't stop him. He just... knew then and there that the deal would never work. He was drinking with vander because he finally understood why Vander died for Vi and Powder and Milo and Claggor. He was drinking to lament how "It was ridiculous how easy it would be. Everything I ever wanted! The boy *didn't even bargain.* " which is a recurring theme when everything goes wrong, when a Piltie trades with a Zaunite and doesn't even bargain. He couldn't stomach giving Jinx up. Jinx just only caught half of the conversation. Hence why he said "children unmake us all" and she was like >:(
@@titusfortunus2916 Vander didn't die... Just rebon as ww
@@jackyjackson1892 bruh... it doesn't matter, he thinks he is dead, it is his perspective
“Validation is the masculine equivalent to professing love” is so true it scares me. When I was young and just coming to terms with being a gay man I got careless and my father found out, he took me aside and told me he loved me, and it felt so good, but later in that same day right before bed he pulled me aside again and said, "I will always love you, but I will never approve of you." and that love he was expressing went completely hollow, it was like love wasn't what I wanted from him at all and what I did want I know I'd never have. Since that moment I still can't look at him in the same way, its a permanent scar in my image of him and it's impossible to talk to him without it in my head.
Validation is important, never be afraid to tell your friends and your family that you are proud of them.
I have the same experience coming out to my mother (single parent) as queer. So I know validation is something women or any human wants too, but I still just wonder why men CRAVE it so much more than women do.
@@azukib2230 I feel like it has a lot to do with the "be a man, do your job" mentality that most if not all men grew up with,
when everyone, including yourself, sees you as a summation of all that you've done, the compliment that hits the deepest will inevitably be a validation,
because it means all of the hardship you've endured thus far are seen and appreciated by someone, while "I love you" on the other hand feels more one-dimensional, for lack of a better word, where it doesn't really feel like a compliment to you as a whole, it's more like something you've done in the past made them feel this way
@@jerrywong9379 As a woman, I think this is a great take. Validation and love are two very different things, and considering the difference between how men and women are treated, valued, and commonly neglected nowadays, it makes sense that men would naturally find a sense of relief after hearing "I'm proud of you" in our society. I'm just one person, but I'd rather hear "I'm proud of you," to be honest, even as a woman. It's based on individual needs and worries, in my opinion. It reminds me of the "stereotypical strict Asian parents" who never show any validation for their child's hard work. Talk to a few female and male kids who lived under a family structure like that and I'm sure you'll hear a similar relief from both genders when their parents express validation for the first time. These are just my thoughts as a woman though! I just find it a littttle hard to believe that men are intrinsically wired to like expressions of validation more than love. They're not replacements for each other after all, so I think it just comes down to what men are commonly afraid of or judged for in our current society.
@@azukib2230 often times its because men are just expected to do the thing without any form of compliment because that is also seen as feminine. receiving compliments is considered feminine in society, validation, love, anything emotional is seen as emasculating. as men we're not supposed to outwardly want love or validation, but we crave it so fervently because humans need it, and that craving gets more intense the less you get it.
@@Bengybug Dang that sounds tough. I can relate to the feeling of lacking and craving a fundamental human need for most of your life, it really eats at you. I am just remembering how often my feminine peers and mentors would compliment me and each other growing up. Occasionally I do notice that in the masculine groups as well but I guess it doesn't happen nearly as often as it needs.
Adding on to the whole point of "Validation is essentially the male version of love." I believe that this mainly comes from the idea that, as men, a lot of our worth as people (self, interpersonal, and societal) is tied to how much we can provide.
Love is culturally seen as a powerful, but "unearned" alternative to validation. For example, most parents will love their children dearly no matter what they can "provide" because it doesn't have to be earned. And while this is obviously very good for the child's mental health, it can also lead to them stressing over "making themselves useful" in order to not feel like a burden, especially if they're male. This also applies to most other examples of love towards men as well.
So, from a male perspective, if someone says "I love you," it can feel hollow and painful because we feel like we're taking something away from that person due to its relatively unconditional nature. However, if someone validates us through phrases like "I'm proud of you," it reinforces our belief that we are useful to others, and thus *worthy* of love.
Anyways, let me do some validation of my own for a second. Amazing video as always, absolutely love how thorough and thoughtful your analyses are, and I can't wait for season 2 of Arcane!
Fantastic point
I feel like a lot of these issues are remenants of past societal standards, like women having to find a man by age 25 and have kids despte women being now independent, overpopulation being a thing, and many women also being queer. Men dont have to put food on the table, but our societal view havent adapted to our modern day standards yet, so we have men who are conditioned to believe their sense of worth is tied to work outside of the household (vs women who are forced to believe they must provide within the household) which leads to men who are afraid to be reliant on others/ men who overcompensate to fit into these traditionally masculine roles which winds up hurting them and those around them (ie toxic masculinity).
@@eattheasslikeitsgrass5113 Except women are the ones that reinforce and reward traditionally masculine traits. A man has to be able to provide and prove competency if he has any value in society, whereas women dont require either as the baseline ability to give birth instantly gives them some level of value. Sure a man can be incompetent and provide nothing to society, but that man will be shamed and villianized for it. We live in a society where men are expected to provide. Nothing will change this anytime soon.
Very well said! That makes perfect sense and helped me understand men better. As I woman, I would always rather hear "I love you" than "I'm proud of you", so your experience really surprised me, but the way you explained it I could understand the thoughts and feelings behind it. Thank you!
@@eattheasslikeitsgrass5113 These are more than social standards honestly they are partially biological standards. And quite frankly a lot of men's value is still derived based on what they can provide where as women are usually seen as having a more inherent value. Not just due to society though, these values are deeply engrained biological facets that have been around basically as long as humans so I don't see them going away. Maybe as technology improves.
you’ve singlehandedly created two of the most eye opening, comprehensive, and effective video essays about writing characters in fiction
wow i appreciate the kind words
He definitely did!!!!!!!!
@@schnee1 Those words I feel are very true, you should be very proud of this!
The bit about validation hits me hard personally only time I cried in the last 6 years was from just a text from my dad when I was going through a tough time was “whatever happens I’m proud of you”
Conclusion: they successfully subverted gender tropes and expectations for both men and women, respecting the difference in paradigm between the way we have culturally portrayed the two genders. Arcane just keeps getting more and more genius
It's little details and schemes that we don't notice unless we look for it, but when it's not present, it is VERY noticeable
My clown self was mistaking the lack of s*xual aggression and “measuring contests” for a lack of gender stereotypes lol
Is there any other series that's on the level of Arcane? I've watched countless other series people claim to be 'masterpeices' and none of them stick with me like Arcane does, and none of them are this profound and deep and thoughtful. Jeez, Arcane really raised the bar on everything.
@@crazybabuskaman3923 samurai jack. i dont what the f@ck this comment section is talking about, but its really good. also check out primal
@@eileensnow6153 what....?
I love your analysis of how arcane writes men, but I think you forgot to mention a very important part, that seeking and giving validation or love, isn't something inherently bound to gender, but the characters themselves. For example, when you mentioned how jinx or other female characters seek love, protection etc, you forgot to mention how they also seek validation, for example jinx is looking for validation and respect from sevika just like mel is seeking it from her mother, just like how Ekko is seeking for Powder's love/past friendship or Vander is protecting his family instead of just seeking validation. So while love and validation can be a recurring theme for women and men respectively, they aren't really something solely based on gender, but rather characters and the expectations society put on them, because ultimately our current perception of gender and prooving who we are is honestly just based around society's expectations of us and Arcane showcases this very well with how society is structured and how inferiority or superiority plays a part in who they are. Vi per say tries to be this strong and impulsive person who doesn't show weakness specifically because of the sense of inferiority put on her shoulders by Piltover where as Jayce isn't afraid of showing vulnerability or his idealism because he doesn't have that weight on his shoulders, Piltover never gives him the burden of having to be a scientist, it's his choice alone lead by his determination. Anyway, this is just an opinion I wanted to share. Amazing video as always
Edit: omg thank you all for the likes! 😀
This is very well put!
@@heywhat6676 thank you, I appreciate it 😊
I hear, good point. Maybe a more precise take than what I expressed in the video would be that there's a need for validation in children from their parents that more often persists in that form for men in their relationships. But you're right that it still finds expression in women in the child-parent context. I don't think Jinx seeks validation from Sevika, but she does from her father, and Mel does from her mother, which goes back to that same childhood need from her past. The idea of fatherhood I haven't developed as much (and also couldn't find a good place to talk about in the video) is this "responsibility" idea that Vander, Silco, and Vi all deal with when it comes to taking on the burdens caused by their children. I think its implied with Ekko's relationship with his community too. Very different from Arcane's motif of fierce and physical protection with its mothers. I gotta think about it more, but I think there's another big idea there.
I'd argue that the motivations of validation vs. love may not be inherently bound to gender, but can and likely should be used as a general rule of thumb for writing to a specific gender (if you wish to accurately portray real life and resonate with the majority of audiences). There are exceptions to this in the show and in real life, as it is and should be. But it should be known by the writers that for a character like Vi for example, mainly men as opposed to women will relate to and resonant with her because of her masculine traits. Far more readily in contrast to a Caitlyn type of character, which I'd imagine women would be able to resonate/relate with more readily. Knowing what audience you are writing to is 70% of the battle. This is mainly a show for men/boys. The demographics clearly skews in this direction. Which is why i'd argue most if not all of these characters exhibit some form of masculinity and why there are no "femboy" characters and a very low number of purely feminine characters.
@@JakeBananas
Great points, though I would say because it’s a TV show marketed *separately* from LoL, the writers knew the demographic would broaden, thus the emphasis on story over sex appeal. (Though many male characters in League are objectified with the intention of appealing to a female audience.)
I usually get deeply attached to either the emotionally suppressed yet traumatized male character and the more emotionally open and kind male character in media. I don't actually know how often their portrayals are accurate to real life. However, the way you explained the balance of my two favorite characters (Viktor and Jayce) shows that these are definitely my favorite tropes but mixed in a sense. Jayce visually and physically feels more masculine yet is a lot more emotionally open and thirsty for attention and validation, to the point that his decision-making is very hindered bc he's always dependent on what others think of him. Viktor is perceived as more physically feminine in the fandom, perhaps due to his illness and disability, but also because of his soft-spoken, quiet demeanor, even if he's far more detached from people and emotions in general. Hell, when Jayce was *about to cry while struggling to tell Viktor he was going to die,* Viktor is only numb and resigned when he asks how much time he has. And yet, the more emotional man in this show doesn't cry (he comes close twice), but the more repressed and insecurely attached one does. As you can see, i love these two men and how they were written very much.
I also really appreciated learning about how men express care and love, what they need emotionally and how they perceive their relationships. Validation and empathy are two of the most important qualities in my life, so it's wonderful to hear that it's an important way to allowing a man to feel loved and understood, as well as the way that they can communicate love and understanding. I feel like I just found a bridge to understanding men a little better
I appreciate that Arcane doesn't mark femininity as weakness, but rather as power in a different form, and we can see that with characters like Mel. Men in Arcane aren't shamed or ridiculed by the story's narrative for being emasculated, because being less masculine isn't equated to being less strong or less valuable. Both masculinity and femininity are valuable in their own rights, and I think Arcane does a good job of expressing that.
I also think one thing to consider would be that the concepts of "masculinity" and "femininity" might not exist in the world of Piltover and Zaun. Those are categories that developed due to our association of certain traits and behaviors with certain genders, but since Arcane takes place in a world "free from stigmatization," as Overton puts it, characters in that world wouldn't tie emotional vulnerability or a muscular physique to a specific gender - those things would simply exist as they are. Because of that, I think it's safe to say that no man in Arcane would be ashamed of losing to a woman, or of being saved by a woman. Since they don't associate submissiveness and physical weakness with the opposite gender, they would not perceive those events as belittling to their own power and strength as a person.
Awesome video! I love your analyses.
well it's called _fantasy_ for a reason 😂
@@DTreatz 🫤
smart!
@@DTreatz fantasy exists in real life in this sense too . Because when you are used to something in your culture or country other places will seem like fantasy to you. Take for example two individuals I'd assume you are European or american and I am from Northern Africa. In my country women or mother and aunts are less affectionate and more violent towards their kids it's like though love but without the love part because they are just plain sadistic bullies most times. mean while the males In families are less violent and more nice to kids like in a public transport if a woman is beating up her kid the other women will yell at the children who Is getting beat while the males would try to tell the woman to be less harsh and try to help the kid . (And yes beating up kids in public is normal like woman smaking the shit out of a 3 year old that can't even talk for 5 minutes that alone is fantasy to others )
@@marwaizem7050 Exactly.
Hm, interesting. Not sure I agree with all of it, but I still love the analysis.
Also I would love to point out one interesting thing: Jayce is _almost_ always pretty.
It's relatively usual for female characters to always be pretty, e.g. never get ugly injuries and make ugly facial expressions. They're pretty when fighting, they're pretty when emotional... And I hate that trope. Out of all the main characters Jayce was the prettiest, others have some form of realistic ugly crying, or ugly rage or get hit and their face becomes ugly for a moment. Vi's a prime example of that, a beautiful person whose face does have face physics when fighting xD
But Jayce is pretty all the time *until* the moment where he has that short bloodthirsty moment seconds before he kills a child. And I think that's masterfully done. It's the only moment when his face isn't pretty in some way and it's there for the storytelling. Love it.
Pretty boy
@@Meraxes6 'You're hot, Cupcake.'
lowkey thirstposting
Never noticed that !
@@99sins I don't blame him at all. Jayce is indeed a 'pretty boy'.
Just to let you know 7 months later, this video is so good that I'm writing my final for gender studies on masculinity purity culture. It's such a profound and excellent way of viewing how masculinity is valued by men that I got inspired when I saw I could choose my topic. I'll be crediting you in the essay but just a thank you in general for this video, definitely one of the best
What was your grade?
howd you do? im curious!
LMAO GENDER STUDIES XDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD
how’d u do?
@@randomrfkovbro is mocking gender studies in the comment section of a video about gender 💀 bro you are studying gender
As a person which first thought about about writing men and women was "write them without caring about their gender" this was really eye opening, and it's interesting the thought that in one way or another stereotypes for good or bad will always form a part into the human personality.
I really liked your video 💯❤️
Yeah. It's one thing that makes sense by societal standards but doesn't make sense by writing standards. We may want our characters to exist beyond their gender since that is the utopia our society desires, but the fact is that these problems affect people based on their gender.
I remember reading a book set in around 18th century Prague, female writer who clearly took the advice of "just write characters without caring about their gender."
The male characters felt so incredibly bizarre at points it actually took me out of the book, straight up felt like they were written as female characters at points, which was fine for the more effeminate male characters but at the same time the book tried to tell us a lot of these characters were fairly masculine working class men.
This is terrible advice. There are differences between men and women, down to biology. Understand the differences, empathise with the differing psychology and write GOOD characters. Ripley is the best example, in the first movie she could be genderless, it's meaningless to the plot, but in Aliens she is a STRONG and an inherently FEMALE character by her motivations.
@@surviigecko7058You just said the same thing.
@@Berd-Wasted. yeah I responded to the wrong comment lmao, I'm on a 7 year old Chinese android tablet that likes to press it's own buttons
i just like the way the women are allowed to be powerful without being one dimensional, and the men are allowed to be vulnerable without being seen as weak
My most eye opening moment about the writing of men in Arcane has to come from my emotional connection to the characters coming so easily and naturally outside of making a connection based on gender. As a woman, I completely relate to Viktor and his struggles with emotional suppression and the need to prove his worth to others and himself. Honestly, until watching this video and actively thinking about the gender aspect of these characters, I didn't question my connection to Viktor at all because of the character first approach to the writing. It's so important to validate these struggles, first, for the men that deal with some if not all of these "be a man" stereotypes, and also, for anyone who feels any of these struggles regardless of the traditional role they might fill in society (gender related or not). Arcane's characters are truly and purely human in the way that, while still filling story archetypes and plot points, they are so complex and gender is never a solely defining trait.
Viktor also had an issue with class. He came from the lowest in the society
What I love about the "Jayce is vulnerable with Mel" moment is, while yes she is a bit taken aback by it at first, nothing in the scene implies judgment to Jayce responding this way. The reason (I think) she's a little surprised at his vulnerability is rather because she's used to the logical, cold and compassion-lacking politics in Piltover. Cait for example regularly expresses her discontent with the dishonesty and ignorance of her city, so it's safe to assume genuine connection and vulnerability are rare in their society. This is why I believe Mel would have been surprised by anyone in Piltover showing true vulnerability and also why Cait's mom doesn't show any form of compassion towards Jayce when he's basically begging for validation (that whole segment in your video was incredibly eye-opening btw!) at the gates of her house in the rain during arc 1. It's not that men specifically can't behave this way, but rather anyone who wants to be part of Piltover's elite.
Yes! There's no judgement OF HIM. if anything her reaction has much more to do with her emotional constipation than him at all.
She wasn't surprised by it coming from HIM, she was surprised he came to HER about it. Like "ME?! you're gonna sulk in MY lap?!!"
@@myralee1760 I agree! I think because of her own trauma (her mom exiling her) and the cold and calculating politics of Piltover, she started acting much less compassionate herself. Her methods were still very subtle and far from the violent approach her mother took, but she still acted mostly out of self interest.
So when Jayce seeks comfort in her, she initially doesn’t understand, because in her mind she set herself up as a strong politician, free of sentimentalities. And suddenly this guy sees something in her that her own mother told her was a weakness.
I think this, the fact that she actually cares about Jayce as a person and and being confronted with just how ruthless her mother is, ultimately reminds her that she used to be far more prone to mercy and peace. This build up is so brilliantly done and I didn’t even realise it until I rewatched the show.
She was almost surprised that he trusted her enough to show such weakness. being a politician, it is likely she is used to trusting others in so far as it benefited their interests. Instead, she has this junior politician that she has taken under her wing to guide and manipulate show her such a complete level of trust. I wonder how much of this act influenced Mel standing with Jayce later when it came to deciding peace.
I read it differently, I think until this moment Mel just manipulated him to gain his trust and to gain influence through him. And this was the moment she realized that he is genuinely interested in her and never expected any bad intentions. And this realization shocked her for a moment. She understood that there’s no "game“ to play against him and because of her past she also stops to enforce her will onto him because he could be the only one who sincerely cares for her.
The Vander moment of 'whatever happens, it's on you' was pretty striking. It's from a father figure to a daughter, but I think the resulting fear of being a failure or a disappointment is something a lot of guys get. And Vander did love Vi, and was doing his best, but I think the series illustrates pretty well that the 'tough love' approach frequently winds up making love conditional, even if that isn't the intent.
I think Vander wanted Vi to grasp the idea of consequences, because she was doing all this risky stuff involving her friends, sister and the undercity.
@@dimitriryndine3300 Oh, definitely. But when we see what happened afterwards, and how Vi reacted, it definitely had some unintended consequences.
Yes, that's why it's complementary to the motherly love in the traditional definition
@@ZipMapp Right. Both mothers and fathers need to show both
@@Meraxes6 No that's not how it works in life
This might actually be teaching me lessons about my male and masculine friends :O
I've got a close, very masculine, enby friend, whom I've told numerous times that I love - because I hold such deep love for them, and want to express it.
They've never, ever, said it back. And that used to bother me a bit. Until I learned that they say it with their actions instead. They agree to hang out. They hold me when I'm sad. They bought me a very thoughtful, though somewhat inexpensive, present for my birthday, because they remembered me saying that I wanted it.
Some people don't say "I love you" with words. And that has to be okay.
So thank you, for making me understand my male and masculine friends a little better - while delivering excellent analysis of an excellent show.
I don't mean to be intrusive and tell you what to do or feel, I hope this doesn't come off that way, but even if you understand them better now (which is great and it helps for certain actions to not hurt), I just wanted to tell you that your needs are important too, and that they need to try to understand you as well. ❤
My boyfriend's love language is very much action-focused as well. I caught up on that, and try to match it so he can feel appreciated too; however, I do need to be told "I love you" back from time to time, so I told him so it is something that he can (and does) have in mind.
If you feel like you need it, comunícate it to your loved ones, I'm sure that they will understand as well. Or perhaps knowing their love language and noticing it is enough for you, which is great as well! I just meant to let you know that it's ok to ask for what we need, because it's hard to get it when people around us work differently.
Anyway, have a nice day!
I'm a female but I'm Asian and Asians doesn't usually say I love you so I just never understand how some people think the mere words of "I love you" means so much to a person.
Even if theoretically someone said I love you to me I thought they're just faking it or saying it just to make themselves looks like a kind/caring person.
Speaking as a man here: validation is something so many men will spend their whole lives chasing. Vander and Silco perfectly embody this through their dream of the nation of Zaun. Vander fought tooth and nail to see it come true, and have Piltover validate the entire undercity as equal, until he nearly murdered his own brother on the path to achieving that validation.
Then, after Vander strayed from that path once he saw the human cost of it, Silco chose to walk it. Silco was willing to turn everyone in the undercity into henchmen, dealers, and junkies, all to have his dream of an independent Zaun be validated by Piltover. But in the very end, Silco strayed from the path for the very same reason Vander did: family. Just as Vander wasn't willing to sacrifice his people for it, Silco wasn't willing to sacrifice Jinx for it. The validation of family was more important to them than the validation of Piltover.
The way Arcane writes the human animal is truly genius.
God damn bro, never really realized that whole “I’m proud of you vs I love you” thing. Well that honestly makes sense for everything I have experienced in my life and in my other male friends lives. Fucken incredible
As a woman, Viktor hit me so fucking hard.
Viktor is this character who does not posses physical prowess. He's super smart and calm and he always "sucks it up." All he does is work, always seeking this validation, striving for a legacy, craving pride and accomplishment. He is always working in the shadows, in private, on his own. Jayce is the rare exception, but he hides things even from him.
I am all of these things.
While Viktor doesn't necessarily have to compensate for his lack of physical strength because of the society he lives in, I, personally, feel that I do. The way I connect to Viktor is in the "suck it up" mentality in the way that it is used as a tool for _work ethic._ A huge fear in my life is not being strong enough, fast enough, powerful enough, to achieve what I want. Especially in things like sports. Whenever I feel like I lack the physicality I need, I get this "suck it up" mentality. I'm not allowed to complain. God forbid I ask for help. If I have a problem, I Google it, I work it out, I will willingly spend a long, arduous time solving it by myself instead of asking someone to help me. Because the more work I do, the more I feel that I am living up to that genius ideal I'm supposed to fulfill. Someone really smart wouldn't need help, right?
And in school. Academic validation was the only thing that kept me going. It was like a rabid hunger. Relentless studying, ceaseless working, a constant restlessness when I wasn't studying because I felt like I _should_ be doing schoolwork. When I was working, I felt that I could be working _harder._ And just like Viktor, I suppressed the shit out of my feelings. I put concealer on my eyebags, I joked about my sufferings so that they seemed smaller than they were. I minimized my pain if it was exposed. The key was to keep my mouth shut and never tell anyone at all. Not my parents, not my teachers, not my siblings, not my best friend. I kind of felt a connection when Viktor hid his sickness from Jayce. I hide a lot of shit from my best friend, even though I actively encourage her to confide in me and she is very open about her experiences, and I admire her for this. However, it's like something is stopping me from opening up. I never tell her about my problems. Sometimes I even send her texts that sound like we're having a normal, cheerful conversation while I am actively crying lmao. So suppression, ouch.
Like Viktor, I am socially inept. After a long string of being outcast due to a difference in interests between me and my classmates, I began to create some unhealthy habits when it came to socializing. See, I have a habit of _assuming_ that I am a negative prescence. I _assume_ people don't want to talk to me, that I am an inconvenience, that I disgust others, that I am an undesireable friend. And so I _automatically isolate myself,_ physically; I stand apart, I wander off, I put distance between myself and others without a second thought. Kind of like how Viktor brushed Sky off because he assumed that nobody wanted to know him any deeper. Plus he was too focused on work. And I, without friends, also dedicated my time to academics, even though I had this crippling self-hatred that told me that I Was Not Enough, that my Work Was Not Enough.
So when the dude in the cave told Viktor that "Loneliness is often the byproduct of a gifted mind."
I started fucking _bawling._
Because. Validation.
_Validation._
I craved it. I blatantly ignored friends and potential romantic interests in favor of _work_ so that I could _impress teachers and parents_ and get _good grades_ BECAUSE I NEEDED VALIDATION. _LIKE VIKTOR._
AND ARE WE NOT GOING TO TALK ABOUT HOW WHEN THE STRESSES BECAME TOO MUCH HE ALMOST COMMITTED SUICIDE?
_I'm slamming my head into my keyboard I can't with this fucking character my soul oh my god_
And the private breakdown, crippled with both a physical disability and the intangible weight of despair, sobbing his heart out all alone in the face of _failure_
The way Viktor is self-destructive in a way that makes him feel like he is fixing himself, with needles in his skin
The lengths he is willing to go to stay alive, just a little longer, to get things done,
The lengths I am willing to go to stay awake, just a little longer, to get things done
Only to realize that his self-destruction damages _other people too_ and he ends up losing this incredible _oppurtunity_ at having a relationship with someone who loved him for who _he was_ and not for _his work._
I mean, the way he supresses himself is almost hinging on martydrom, the way he crushes his own problems in favor of reaching for a higher goal, a broader purpose: a legacy.
It just... screams at me, like a mirror.
Damn I ranted
Anyway the takeaway is that I really relate to Viktor and a character's relateabillity has nothing to do with gender. (nobody was combatting this fact here, it just needs to be said more in general I think. Also I saw a guy comment about how much he related to Vi because she was an oldest sibling of 4, and he really connected with her, and he also mentioned that relateability is not connected specifically to a character's gender and I thought that was pretty sweet.)
For expression of emotion, I recommend writing it down or speaking about it out loud (you've already made this comment, so I'm guessing you're getting the hang of it)
For some reason, I've been talking to myself since I was a boy (call me crazy, I don't mind) and doing so made me feel like someone was actually listening (probably was myself, sometimes thought it was god, or a hidden camera like in the Truman Show). It makes me think of the times when you don't necessarily need someone to fix your problems, but just someone to listen to them. By doing so, I'm pretty sure I'm one of the sanest people I know.
Hopes this helps ❤
I really enjoyed reading this. I can feel the emotion in your words. Thank you for sharing this with the world. I hope you're doing well.
Im being lazy right now so tldr all of it but i did read the beginning. Men are told to suck it up and just deal with things. ask for help and you're seen as weak or incapable. I am a woman but am physically hindered, I'm disabled. But if for just one day i want to just not because i hurt my dad, who raised me solo mostly, makes me feel worthless for just asking him to wash his own dishes or just go to the store with him. This idealism is pushed by men often as well because that's all they know to be acceptable. Viktor did infact speak to me as well. Having to fix things on your own, or at least seeming to have to. Not wanting to appear weak or like a burden on anyone. Trying to strive in what you're good at; building your talents, but coming up short in some way, and being told no or not good enough. Viktor was told his project wasn't ready yet but he also knew if it weren't presented now he may not see the day it would be. So much has happened because of him but it wasn't enough in his eyes because he can do so much, he felt free in a way. He felt he was worthy. But the impending doom looming before him, scared him far too much. He just wanted to be accepted and to continue to be and to grow. Having some kind of physical hinderance is annoying to the person having to live with it, so the last thing someone would want to do is worry someone else and have then also carry the weight you've been. Asking for help is a great thing, but people, men especially, arent allowed to ask. So i too related to Viktor and with that i wish people would accept asking for help as a normal thing. In my opinion, asking for help is a strength in itself. You've realized your limitations and are trying to prevail and succeed, even if it means going outside of yourself. A single stick breaks easy when pressure is placed on it but a group is more difficult to break. There is infact strength in numbers, especially when the people you lean on build you up.
@@milodube1631 Thank you so much, you're so sweet. I do actually talk to myself a lot, and you're totally right, it does help :)
'I have problems opeing up about my problems'
Also 'read this 1000 word rant about my inner tumult random internet crowd'
sus
A true genius would realize that fame and recocnition are superficial and in our world often unjust. Also Viktor is stupid for not trusting Jayce, sure Jayce might not like where they have to go to save Viktors life, but he would fight for his brother and Singed might have been quite the valuable ally in all this shenanigans. I was a one trick pony Singed Seasons 1-5 and I cant wait for him to be in the spotlight in Arcane Season 2.
I like what you say about gender and other stuff being irrelevant to relate to a character. Im no turtle and no Ninja but I loved Donni. DBZ are japanese people drawing western/white looking characters where the only guy that is black is a 1930 Disney charicature and black people (black men *cough*) love the show.
I wish you had talked more about how men in arcane don't live at the expense of women. The fact that there is no need for these male characters to "establish dominance" or don't care about losing against a woman or opening up o a woman is a statement by itself. There is no trying to make Vi softer, or a man decided to win a fight with her, Jace has no problem in being "weak" with a woman or following a woman's orders, no one questions a woman's authority just because they're women. Really good analysis but I just felt like that missed, but honestly you did amazing with the validation theme
Although I agree, I'd also say that this was covered in detail by the other video he's referring to, about how Arcane writes women. He wasn't expecting to do this follow up video, so he covered that all in great detail there.
He did in the video about women in arcane
@@lilyruff1411 thanks! I didn't see he posted that first
and then do the same to men
Well personally I did find it a tad weird vi never met a guy that was her character type but way more over the top (like some men do)
- we never really got that. It's not a problem ofcourse. But felt weird being a man myself and having a well known relation to toxic masculinity
So yeh you're opinion is valid but could have used a "manly man" in a bad way, like when Vi talks to most people she doesn't straight out love
The problem I have with the "write female characters just as people" is that it tends to ignore that one's gender does play a big part in how one might be socialised. Character does come first.... but wait, where does the character come from? From your past life. And gender can paly a big part in that. Not into your INHERENT ways of thinking and acting, but in those you learn beacuse of how people treat you.
Yup. Identity is social, so the groups that you present as belonging to will shape how people interact with you. It's not *only* social, but that back-and-forth is a core component of any character. Gender's just one of those ways.
@@Duiker36 You phrased that well
I mean, he did say in the video that "Write ___ characters as people." should not be a starting point
Agreed, gender is a biological perspective that cant be ignored in story writing. But it can be played with if you know what you are doing.
@@JakeBananas A biological perspective? No, it's a socially engineered perspective.
Funnily enough, I just had a discussion like this with one of our Arcane servers on why I love Viktor, his character and his design so much. The one thing I love about Arcane is, it's not afraid of showing its male characters being fragile and imperfect in comparison to the countless swathes of media that generally tends to present its male characters like these perfect badasses who are only allowed to cry for the sake of hamming up drama. Like this is something I picked up on just this recently after going to the cinema to see Black Adam. A lot of writers are too afraid to make their male characters too vulnerable and too imperfect. But for me, I like to cite him as one of the most beautiful characters I know because there's just so much personality and storytelling in this character that when you see him at first is so subtle on him that many barely pick up on it at first, and this is all in a character that's not really seen much. His brand of masculinity is such a subtle, unconventional brand of masculinity that you barely see it at all in most media from the way he carries himself right down to his design from the beauty marks on his face to the way he's built and presented. And from what I learned from an old video of Pop Culture Detective's on Newt Scamander, it's because a lot of men in real life is kinda discouraged from carrying themselves the way Viktor does because people seeing it as being "too soft". But that's what I love the most about him. What I've always loved most about him on every facet is, they're not afraid of showing him being vulnerable and ESPECIALLY, being imperfect. Like, we've seen him at his most fragile, whenever he'd experiment on himself, we've seen him at his worst moments throughout the show including in his life and all his mistakes so far and his emotions around it as well as how he owns up to his mistakes. We've seen how he is with his relationships in these highly fragile moments, like with Jayce at the ledge, and with Singed, and in pretty much every scene that he's in, he just feels, refreshingly human.
Not to mention how this is all reflected in his character design, when he's on his death bed, he actually looks like he's dying, as opposed to this highly Tim-Burtoned up, romanticized way people in his predicament are usually framed, like the old Victorian novels used to do with women who suffered from Tuberculosis. When we see him experiment on himself, we see him at his most fragile mentally and physically where, he literally looks like if you touch him the wrong way he'd break a bone or wind up bruised for months, but at the same time, to an extent we see him being a little animalistic. There's just this continuous sense of being scared for him AND being scared of him at the same time because by this point we know what shimmer does, and we have no idea what it might do to someone who at this stage looks like a living skeleton. They're more than happy to show him at his best where he's at his most stunning, healthy and most content in life, where we get to see what he could've been essentially had things been different for him, but at the same time they don't hold back on being messy with him, being dark and solemn and kinda gruesome in a sense, and showing him bounce back a little to a degree. Which, considering where he ends up in LoL, kinda makes me batcrap terrified of what they're going to do to the poor guy once Season 2 rolls around because, god forbid, has this poor man been through a lot already.
As a daughter I can see this difference between parenthood and motherhood, like my father says to me”you would accomplish great things” or “You will be better than me and your mother” and my mom says more “I love you” and thing like that.
That is interesting, thanks for sharing your experience. My father said neither "I love you" nor "I am proud of you" nor " You will accomplish great things" like you stated. This might explain why I feel simply disconnected from him on the emotional level. Thanks for the enlightenment
I agree. It's a bit weird. My parents both say " I love you" and "You will accomplish great things", but their actions show that my mom is focused on keeping me safe while my dad is focused on finding ways for me to move on and pave a way for myself. It's great!
And there's my parents who constantly fight and never said anything good to any of their child.
My mom constantly compare me to my smarter siblings and my dad just doesn't care.
“I’m proud of you” being the masculine form of “I love you” is such an amazing take that I’ve never thought of before but it’s so true! I can think of countless examples from both healthy and unhealthy relationships where that’s the case. A child trying to be the best in everything to get the attention of an uncaring father. Friends hyping each other up and congratulating them for their accomplishments. An older brother or father teaching a child to play catch and how much that means to the child especially when they’re told they’re getting the hang of it. As always this is incredible analysis. I don’t know how you do it but please keep up the good work.
I really like the idea of women typically being more protective than men, especially mothers. There's actually a good reason Steve in Stranger Things is considerd the mother of the group, he's not even a female but people see him as the mother not just becuase of a joke but because he's protective of the group.
In nature, mother/female animals are the most protective while the father is out somewhere doing god knows what
@@oo8962 Typically hunting to provide for the family.
Also, the males will still protect their families.
Are you two fr generalising animals? Most of them don’t look after their kids at all 💀
@@kakonthebed entirely untrue protection of children, or even direct education like humans or meerkats have, is hardwired into most mammals and birds because children are extremely vulnerable and without parent supervision they likely will not survive (even with parent supervision they probably won't, but it gives em a better chance lol)
the amount invested in the child varies for sure! but like why do mammals have breasts that make milk if they don't look after their kids at all
@@Lord_Numpty exactly. Typical societal roles have the women as the protector/nourisher and the men as the provider.
I think when people say 'write characters as people', what they're trying to say is to 'write characters as a culmination of experiences' without understanding what that really is. Some experiences are gendered, some experiences aren't, and all of them are influenced by the setting and society. It's a very 'from the ground up' approach that people don't realize takes a lot more effort to make work, but the approach they had with Arcane had a very similar result that will be a phenominal influence on a lot of people in multiple creative spheres.
To paraphrase the old Extra Credits host: gender or sexuality should INFORM a character, NOT DEFINE them
Also want to add that a reason one might not think as deeply about writing men in relation to gender is because much of society sees men as the default person and women as the addendum. Heck it's in our language
woMEN, feMALE, sHE.
think it's just interesting how western society has made white cis male the default and all other qualities modifiers.
Also funny considering biologically speaking female is actually the default until the y chromosome is added, which is why men have vestigial nipples.
@@metageek7878 Man did not used to mean “male”, man used to mean “humanity/human being”, the old words in Old English for male adult person and female adult person were “werman” and “wifman” respectively, we can see this relation in words like werewolf and wife as being the remnants of the base “wer-” and the base “wif-”. Woman evolved phonologically from the word “wifman” by natural processes where the ‘f’ sound dropped and the ‘i’ became lax. Man dropped its “wer” stem for reasons mostly unknown
Female: Male and Female actually come etymologically from two completely different words. Male comes from Old French “masle” which meant masculine, while Female came from Old French as well “femella” which meant young woman. This is another case, just like he and she, where the words coincidentally ended up looking similar without having any direct correlation in historical linguistic processes to make them as such.
Human: This word etymologically derives from Proto-Indo-European “ghomon” which means earthly being as opposed to heavenly being which would refer to gods.
here ya go hun
@@Castigar48 no actually: human comes from Latin 'homo' meaning 'man' or 'human being' > Latin 'humanus' > Old French and then Middle English 'humaine' > Modern English 'human'. 'Homo' in Latin comes from 'humus' meaning 'earth' or 'ground', but that doesn't change the meaning of 'homo', which could mean just 'man' or 'human being', sort of in a similar way to 'mankind'. I was literally just looking at the etymology of human and man the other day so this is fascinating to me, I only read the 'human' etymology part of ur comment tho, I got too excited of sharing this knowledge to read the rest yet haha
@@Castigar48 oh and many scholars state that while yes, 'female' and 'male' are etymologically unrelated, the ending of 'female' was changed due to its frequent association with 'male' back in Middle English. Google has a pretty handy thing where you just type "(word) etymology" and it gives an easy to understand chart of these things, and then of course other results that go more in depth below that.
@@Castigar48 oh and you forgot to mention 'wifman' (which meant woman or female servant) literally means 'wife' + 'man' (but keep in mind 'mann' the last root meant person, which coincides with men being seen at the default). Wikipedia has an etymology section as well, which is where I got this part! Rabbit holes for daysss for language lovers haha.
Correction: Wiktionary has the etymology, not Wikipedia, but potato potahto.
The validation point was actually really useful for me, I often find it difficult to write "masculine" men in my own stories because I have never experienced "being a man" (because I am not a man) and I often struggled with how they express emotion and, when together, seek validation from each other. This was a really useful insight and I will take it away and into my own stories hopefully. Maybe I can actually write some decent male characters now lol
Growing up female with a macho father, I learned a lot of anxieties from both sides. Sports teams would tell me to "man up", and yet would berate the boys if I ever one-upped them. "You let a GIRL beat you??" I prided myself on suppressing emotion, playing up my "tomboy" aspects, and judging people for something as simple as expressing joy with friends rather than keep stoic. Children pervade these stereotypes, and it really has a devastating effect on your psyche.
Arcane hit every sweet spot for me. They allowed characters to freely interact with each other in unique ways. Mel wasn't immediately receptive when Jayce opened up to her; she was still dealing with her own impression of the night prior, along with everything else, and the show allowed her those feelings, even when the situation wasn't about her. It didn't shame or make her look stupid for having misread the situation, and inversely, it didn't shame Jayce for having run off in the first place. The audience wasn't forced to side with anyone.
I think this especially, the lack of "shame" or "choosing sides" in the show, is something that really stood out to me. Princesses always huff angrily when the prince runs off recklessly to fight instead of running away, and you always get that one scene that turns out to be a needless misunderstanding. People mis-hearing a more damning part of a conversation and leaving before context is provided, for instance! I was actually worried that Mylo-Vi's overheard conversation was going to go in the same direction, but it seemed like it was used later to avoid re-hashing Powder's insecurities, summed up instead by her line: "you were twice the person at half my age".
Another factor that absolutely solidified my appreciation for this show that I don't see anyone mentioning: the world seemed to canonically not have rape or sexual harassment. It not only wasn't brought up as a threat when it many times could have been used as one, but it was not even a possibility. I love gritty and grim movies, but those scenes just break immersion for me and make me feel uncomfortable. I already know the feeling of being targeted, harassed, etc; I don't need escapist media to remind me of that!
Thank you for making these videos. Your perspective and break-downs are very refreshing, and I appreciate you sharing insight from your father as well!
Pretty sure Mels mother sexually harassed Jayce by purposely asking for his presence while bathing so she could flash him. So really what you mean in that no women experienced it, or you are incapable of recognizing female predators because you don't think they can be.
"seemed to canonically not have rape or sexual harassment"
The world DEFINITELY has this, but it wasn't part of the story they wanted to tell. Before Vi fights Sevika with her gloves there's the guy that starts licking someone head, the slums definitely have violence, including sexual violence, going on in them, and when Vi gets mugged it didn't look like the guy with the jacket had much in the way of morality. But the biggest arguement against it imo is the blur around Jinx and Silco. There are definitely times when it is legitimately suspicious what's going on, and Silco has such an enormous amount of power over Jinx that if he wanted to he could, and the show wouldn't be radically different, or even different at all. It ultimately comes down to your judgement of Silco as a person, and whilst he definitely had unexpected good points, he still thought that Jinx was okay as a crazy, broken, murderous child in the body of a teenager, and encouraged this creation.
TL;DR Although it didn't have a place in the story they wanted to tell sexual assault is definitely a thing in Arcane. It is a primal drive, and especially in places like Zaun it definitely occurs.
@@雷-t3j You're right. But that's because the monsters in Piltover are well-fed and well-entertained. Do to Piltover what Piltover is doing to Zaun and everything becomes like Zaun.
I saw a trans man talk about the same sorts of things. Once living as a woman, he assumed that men did very little emotional labor, emotionally supportive work like talking through emotionally draining topics and being compassionate to struggling others (etc.), which is work that often falls to women (e.g., women/feminine teachers are the ones students share their personal struggles with and ask for flexibility from over men/masculine teachers). However, after transitioning and passing as a man to other men, he realized that men did emotional labor, too, but it was all about validating other men and their masculinity as you describe. The tough greetings, the brushing off of perceived emasculating moments, and more was the emotional labor he found he did as a man, which he doesn’t think is always useful if it prevents men from getting the deeper levels of support they actually need and if most other emotional labor gets pushed onto women as a result.
"...which he doesn’t think is always useful if it prevents men from getting the deeper levels of support they actually need..."
I think that is a bit of a fallacy there. The tough greetings and brushing off _aren't_ men validating each other. That's the guy version of being "catty" and testing each other's social place. That said, friends can do that to each other as a bit of a tease, much like how female friends might call each other names they'd never accept from "outsiders".
Men validate each other with stuff like "we're going out with some guys, wanna come" (read as 'you are cool') and "oof, that sucks" (read as 'oof, that sucks'). That type of masculine compassion is different from feminine compassion, but no less effective. Claiming it leaves the responsibility of emotional labor for women to deal with is like saying that "women being catty to each other isn't always useful if it leaves men to deal with the fallout". No duh.
"which he doesn’t think is always useful if it prevents men from getting the deeper levels of support they actually need"
This is a misconception of women's own creation that doesn't actually exist for men. Men express their emotions differently than women, with different social cues and different ways of showing compassion for their fellow man. Doesn't make it wrong, and it doesn't mean that they're "not getting the support they need". Just because men are different than women doesn't mean that the way men do it is wrong.
@@TheRawrnstuff i think you misunderstood what I meant at a few places. First, the “brushing off of perceived emasculating moments” was not about actually brushing off someone. I meant that (as this guy described), when a dude does something emasculating, other dudes tend to do the emotional labor of validating him and his masculinity in that moment. The emasculating moment is what is brushed off. The “tough greetings” was referring to generally validating greetings that guys tend to do with one another that do appear more “tough” or “macho” in a basic sense. Second, the “not giving the deeper level of support needed” stuff was about how men who are really struggling with something, grief, depression, etc. still get the basic validation of “oh, that sucks” or “crying doesn’t make you less of a man,” but as this dude described, you don’t always go much further to get at the full issue (please note that I wrote *don’t always* not “never”). I teach about suicide and depression in my job, and this is supported by the research on men, who are more likely to avoid seeking out a diagnosis and help and instead mask symptoms with alcohol/drugs, which contributes to men’s higher rates of completed suicide. Men indeed do less traditionally recognized emotional labor, like unpaid compassion work with emotional mentorship, accommodations requests, at-home parent care, etc. (e.g., I teach the same class as male colleagues, but I’m the one with more accommodation requests and get more complaints about whether I’m accommodating and supportive enough; the more feminine-presenting of my male colleagues also receive more things like me than our more masculine-presenting male colleagues), but you really misunderstood that whole point, too. Again, this isn’t just what **I** think; this is a guy describing his new experiences. I’m sorry if I didn’t summarize it clearly enough, but it seems like you really misconstrued what I wrote. :(
@@ryanhall5360 I’m talking about mental health support, not just validation. Men, on average, do not seek out the mental health support they need, and their male peers tend to shy away more from going that deep with emotions. Sorry that my summary wasn’t clear enough for you.
Edit: typo
@@ladynoluck I think, again, that it's just a matter of perspectives. Men tend to want to solve things on their own and face adversity head-on, by themselves. Seeking mental health support isn't always the best method for dealing with tough situations, especially for men. For women, it comes more naturally, but for guys it's just not something that they tend to want, and that's perfectly fine.
It's one thing to say that men don't seek out mental health support, and another thing entirely to imply that it's a bad thing. If I misread your intentions, I apologize, but this is something that I think people tend to misunderstand about masculinity and how it differs from femininity.
Just wow... You gave me a lot to think about with how I interact with my two sons, man to man. I tell them all the time that I love them, because I genuinely do, but how often do I let them know that I am proud of them, when I genuinely am. Or how often do I validate their opinions and experiences as important to me, because they very much are. And this is something I never realized for myself, but that validation is really important to me, so of course it makes sense that it probably is to them as well. Something to remember going forward, with making sure I let them know fully how I feel, and not just the parts that people traditionally talk about being important to express.
I went to a Brandon Saderson signing one, my mom is a huge fan, and part of it was that he had a q and a just before the actual signing. So I asked how he writes women and one of the things he said was that he had an issue when he first got into writing with writing men and women "the same", he said the issue was that gender is very important to factor in when writing characters. I don't remember it exactly cause it was like a decade ago and I was a kid, but this made me think of that advice about keeping in mind how characters gender is important when writing them and to factor in mind that gender shouldn't define a character (that was something he also mentioned). Great video btw.
Cool! I just reread the original Mistborn trilogy and I was wondering about his approach since Vin starts out so purposefully androgynous. You can definitely tell he refined his methods by the time he was writing stormlight.
@@schnee1 I was actually thinking the same thing about the Mistborn trilogy as I was watching this video! Very cool coincidence
Brandon Sanderson talks about his early struggles writing women in his 2020 lectures on RUclips. They're a very good watch and highly recommend. You can google search, "Brandon Sanderson Writing Believable Female Characters" and it's just a few paragraphs.
Yeah it's kind of disappointing because there are a lot of authors who are otherwise very good, but you can tell that they write male characters as people first and men second, while female characters are written as women first and people second. Writing them the same isn't necessarily good writing, but it is a good step towards breaking a bad writing habit, and a useful tool for seeing what parts of your characters are effected by gender and whether those parts actually add something or are just a stereotype. Hence the popular slogan "write women as people", because too many treat men as people and women as women, so they see personhood as an erasure of womanhood.
Side note: It also why it bugs me when authors say "Women play an important role in my world." Like...yes, I should think HALF THE POPULATION would play a role in your world!
I found the quote where Sanderson talks about writing women. It's in part 9: Characters 1 of the 2020 lecture series at 41: 10 ruclips.net/video/1NCiuI6F5O0/видео.html
I've been falling down the rabbit hole of arcane essays for 3 months now and I'm so glad most of them are from you, Schnee! Love this quick and to the point style you do.
I just wanted to say how fantastic this video essay is, and how accurately it hits the nail on the head as far as the core of actual masculinity. Now, if you who are reading this feel like indulging me, I've an experience to share:
I'll start off by saying that I have not watched Arcane (something which I plan to correct once I get home), but that even through this video essay I relate to the struggle of 'surviving emasculation'.
Throughout my childhood and teenage years, I always felt really insecure about my masculinity. In short, I do not - and have never, really - fit the 'traditional ideal' of masculinity. I've chronic asthma and tendinitis, and have since I was little. It made playing sports difficult, and, being that by my personality I was and am only a passing fan of them, I did not enjoy playing nor going out of my way to watch them. While I appreciate being outdoors, and love nature, I'm not one for riding motorcycles or mountain bikes or hiking. I'm tall, and have been fit at points in my life, but aren't really able to make any muscle show. I prefered writing, and music, and telling stories. I watched movies instead of sports, read instead of playing football, listened to classical and blues instead of listening to rap or country music.
I felt like a fraud, and struggled with trying to fit myself to what I thought was the idea of masculinity, and while I was able to put on a facade (surprise surprise, acting/roleplay is one of my passions) it was, in the end, always sort of a lie.
This went on until 2021, in my second year of college. I was diagnosed with Bipolar II and, at first, I did not want to be given medication for it. I wanted to 'suck it up' and handle it on my own. But then my dad asked me if I wanted to stop taking my allergy medication. I thought he'd lost it (I've really bad allergies), and said no. He replied, "What's different about this than your allergies? You don't have the right chemicals being produced. The medicine makes that happen. It's the same as your allergy medication." Suffice to say, I started meds, and decided that I wanted to find the source of all this insecurity of mine, and why I thought taking medication for what is ostensibly an allergy was a sign of being emasculated.
After a lot of soul searching and reading and a touch of therapy, I found that how I describe masculinity at its utmost is security. The ability to project security, so that those I care about feel safe. The ability to let people feel safe in my company, not only from outside sources, but also me. The ability, in the far future, to make certain my family is secure and provided for. And, most importantly, security within: acceptance of who I am, the flaws I may have, but without giving into them. Developing them, so that they might serve me, and accepting and wearing my personality proudly, and being secure in it.
I always thought that this idea of the primacy of security was the case, but what I failed to realize is there is a difference between creating an aura of security and forcing security onto others. One is passive, and pure, and comes from within to reassure those without. The other is active, imposing, toxic, and is not about security for all, but about control and predictability for oneself.
It's this inner security, this inner peace, that is healthy, that is the essence of being a man. I am a nerd. I do eschew many traditional definitions of masculinity. I do feel my emotions and, though I control them and they do not control me, I refuse to hide them. But I *am* a man. I am all of those things, but I'm also a gentleman. On a sinking ship, women and children *will* go before me. I am unafraid to defend myself and others. I *will* tell my friends I love them, that I'm proud of them. And I will *absolutely* talk to random dogs and cats in a baby voice, without shame. *That* is masculinity to me, at its purest.
Thank you for reading, if you've made it this far. This turned into a longer post than I originally planned, lol. My one request is that if you are a man, or even a woman feeling the same struggle, please do not be afraid to be you. So long as you hold yourself to the values that you think are important, that define you, and that encourage you to do better and be kind, you are the pinnacle of yourself. Define your ideals of masculinity and femininity not by the will of others, but rather the aspects of it that you value that do not discount who you are.
Thanks again, I wish you all the utmost love and wellness. May you improve the lives of others.
- Connor
This is really beautiful. Hope you have a good day, stranger on the internet
Hi, thank you for sharing your story, it was deeply meaningful. I wonder if you've been able to watch the show and, if you have, what you think of Viktor. I feel like that character is one that you could certainly relate to, but I'm also very glad you've been able to find yourself and push through your fears to find your truth (something Viktor is still actively struggling with physically and emotionally). It's very inspiring to know this kind of growth is very possible
Thank youuuu
Thank you so much for your text! It's very inspiring and it deeply touched me because I never really identified with being a woman. It felt like I couldn't be myself and be a woman at the same time, so I didn't want to be one.
But lately I basically came to the same conclusion as you did: I don't need to be a certain way because I am a woman. I am who I am. I can be a woman and I can be me at the same time. And that's what I will do, I will be me. ^^
So yeah thank you a lot for sharing and I wish you the best !
@@Emmajic So glad to hear that I was able to help you! Thank you for sharing, and I'm glad I could help you feel a little less alone in the mindset. From a random person on the internet, I'm proud of and happy for you! Best of luck out there!
Mr. Kiramman I believe is stereotypically "feminine." Seriously. From what we've seen in Season 1, Caitlyn's mom was more of a "traditional dad" to Caitlyn than her father.
It's Mr. CAITLYN thank you very much
“More of a dad to caitlyn than her father” What is that supposed to mean? There is no wrong way to be a dad (as long as you love and support your children ofc), yes the mother was more dominant but it’s dumb to say that a woman being dominant means she acts a man (I.e. the “father”)
Also the father seemed to be the more kind/ understanding/ emotionally open one, why should that mean that he is less of a father? That implies that real fathers and men shouldn’t/ can’t have those qualities, which is messed up.
True, from the scenes we saw, he was more nurturing and exhibited more traditionally feminine traits. But that doesn't make him any less of a person being a man. Just as Vi exhibits mainly masculine traits but is no less of a person being a women. This is something that the show is generally trying to convey.
@@FirstnameLastname-zq8oy I'll add "traditional dad" to my initial statement, since that is what I meant.
This, but it's more of that Mrs. Kiramman leads the household and he takes a supporting role. And he seems quite happy to do so, so it's a win-win arrangement for both of them.
There’s Caitlin’s dad who fits a traditionally motherly role whilst her mom fits the fatherly role
Fantastic video. There is one small bit near the end I think is missing. Near the end, you mentioned Silco's application of make-up as an example of him caring about perception. Obviously true giving his use of theatrics, but I think it had a different purpose. I think it was there as a small, early, nod to his character growth. In the first arc, Silco has the same goal but wears his scars proudly and openly a testament to his ability to survive. He understood that power in Zaun and didn't care how it made him look to Piltover.
It's only after adopting Jinx that he begins wearing makeup. My theory on this is that either his scars scared her as a child, and he didn't want to do that, or that he wanted her to see his as a man and not a monster. The make-up is the first instance the viewer sees of Silco compromising. It's the foreshadowing to the scene where he's speaking at Vander's statue of how raising Jinx influenced his growth as a person.
You put it perfectly "you didn't think there was that much there" to talk about. The women video while enlightening was more or less expected. Of course many of the women characters are masculine, of course they skip the cliches or apply them differently but this?
These were perspectives I never thought about. Well done! To you and even moreso to Arcane! Damn man this show keeps getting better and better.
The segment about emasculation is absolutely brilliant and hits close to home. I rarely show emotions (has nothing to do with me being a man, this is just how I am), but sometimes I have these outbursts, and most of the times they were judged as "feminine" by people around me. That's one of the reason I like Jayce so much - he is musculine in every way possible, but he is not afraid to be vulnerable and to show his emotions, and he is also not judged for that by people around him.
stoicism ftw baby
@Chronostradamus Chrome
Idk. I’m the same way as a woman. Literally training myself out of it to be better examples to my little sisters and brothers. And considering they’ve slipped and called me brother, mom, and dad…. I think it’s a role model needed.
7:15 Holy hell this dude knows what he’s talking about. You got my sub mate
I agree, the characters were specifically designed for their genders. Vi and Jinx’s conflict and motivations would not nearly be as impactful if they were men, there are a bunch of things that wouldn’t make as much impact if the characters were genderswapped
We also need to remember that most of the characters specifically the main women in the show, were already made it would have made no sense if they swapped gender, but as an example Vi in her base form would work as a man or woman. The gender does matter but it's not nearly as important as personality. Another example you can have a supremely powerful wizard or soldier who could be homosexual but if sexuality isn't part of the story it's pointless to focus on sexuality.
@@kainnak How would Vi's character change if she were to be genderswapped?
@@kainnak While I'd make that argument myself, I think the original comment is talking more on how each character was expressed and handled with their sex in mind. Like, down to the emotional level. Gender can be whatever but sex does have different dealings in life just from the very idea of how they're brought up and society tries to pin whatever on them. ( Can see Vi going through hard shit as a young girl with jinx so she had to grow up quickly and probably mimic'd Vander and other dudes to do it?)
I think the Vi and Jinx thing is the vast difference in sisterhood vs brotherhood. Both equally deep and important, but very different narratively and tonally.
@@JakeBananas Vi is basically written as a big brother archetype, protective, hardheaded, and takes on leadership roles out of necessity. Whereas with the big sister archetype, that's more about showing compassion, and whilst still protective, it's more nurturing. So if genderswapped, Vi wouldn't really change all too much, we'd just lose out on a cool lesbian relationship between Vi and Cait
The closest feminine equivalent for emasculate I can think of is the saying, “Thats not very Lady-like”
@Andre Matthews andre did you watch the video or just reply to every comment without context
@dnlkq qgfjnk jokes on them, wannabe masc lesbian me takes pride in that
As a woman I e been told to man up, suck it up, etc. shits hilarious.
Yeah, anything that implies you're not a real woman (or less of a woman) for doing something can be considered the opposite of emasculation, since it has a similar effect. But there's no counterpart in name.
Edit: Hold up, I just remembered "Defeminisation". Although I hear that word more in discussions of misogynoir between black women, it has pretty much the same meaning: devaluing your womanhood.
Except, it's bc of the assumption that you're black & therefore less feminine, or less capable of having feminine virtues as they pertain to whiteness, like innocence, chastity or purity. Its point is to dehumanize you, the same way emasculation would a man. "If you don't operate perfectly within the norms of your sex, I am allowed to treat you less than." So yeah, defeminisation.
It is definitely a thing (at least in my experience). Because it's being told that your doing femininity "wrong", that you're not being "feminine enough". Which, going by the binary gender understanding most people are raised in, means you're being "too masculine", and that's gross and/or wrong.
But also, you can also be "too feminine" (read: hysterical, too emotional, too complicated). And being a little more "masculine" isn't always a negative thing. Women get praised (sometimes) for showing some "masculine" traits, like logic, independance, ambition, assertiveness.
The same way women get judged on a constantly shifting scale between being "too sexy" and "too prude", being "not feminine enough" and "too feminine" is also a balancing act. You'll get praise from some people and insults from others: the whole "damned if you do, damned if you don't" experience of being a woman.
But that's also, I think, why there's no 100% equivalent to emasculation. Men don't get a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" treatment for their masculinity most of the time: their societal approval comes from doing masculinity "right", where feminity is always perceived as a negative. For women, you can definitely be "too feminine".
I think that with so much nuance in this series as he has multiple videos about so many subtle and very hard to point out details regarding characters, story and overall theme, it is hard to believe they just sat and thought so deeply for each detail but more like they were just very good at their job and many of details were result of their incredible intuition due to experience.
This explains a lot of why Silco is my fave character. His scene of him at vanders statue and just...coming to terms he had everything wrong. His choices werent the best. And now hes in the same hard position Vander was in. He was showing so much vulnerability over his choices and while by himself you can see that honesty. Youd expect him to blow up at the end of things like a lot of villians do. But he just...is beside himself in his choice. This show gets better everytime I take more time to think about it.
Aye, Arcane has strong (I mean giga chad level of strengths) women without needing weak men. And I am loving it!
What’s the female version of giga chad?
@@Meraxes6 Chadette?
@@Meraxes6 it's gender neutral, like Dude.
@@Meraxes6 ultra-stacy
16:50 for me, Vi is like "a mother and father" to Powder, because that's the role an older sister displays, as an older sister myself, she teaches Powder strength trough her kind and protective nature, encouraging her and securing her habilities
Fellow older sister agree
6:27 I get so annoyed when people make comments like this. Thank you for bringing this up.
YES women are people, but gender impacts us *all* whether it's part of your identity or not (ex. genderless, agender).
Edit: Okay, saying this now, this may not apply for some *fictional* universes/worlds, where gender may have less effect. I do still believe this applies if you're writing a story in the real world.
And yes, I agree with everything @schnee said on this topic.
yeah gender impacts us socially, which is going to play into your personality and how you protect yourself from that and the way people perceive you
@Andre Matthews something said in the video you and everyone else is commenting under
No, sex is what impacts us all. Gender doesn’t exist, it’s a social construct, feminity and masculinity are social constructs created to oppress women. Sex is what exists.
Saying that gender can be an identity only perpetuates misogyny, since it reaffirms gender stereotypes and roles. You cannot identify out of something that does not exist, you are either a man or a woman, and how you choose to express yourself (using or not using makeup, the clothes you wear, etc) is just a part of your personality
@Andre Matthews you seem to be very lost on this comment section
Entirely unironically, this video actually made me realize a lot of things about myself and other men in my life that I never even realized. This is such an incredibly insightful video, even beyond the topic of characters, stories, and gender. This is super applicable to real life and understanding the motivation for things some MEN ACTUALLY DO in the real world.
My love language is Quality Time, and I have always felt strongly that I can hang out with a friend (or multiple), and we can be doing absolutely nothing, just hanging out and maybe not even say a single word to each other, and to me that feels like a genuinely valuable use of my time. I feel happy and comfortable in those moments. On the flipside, right now where I have basically no friends in close proximity anymore and no one to really hang out with, I have drastically felt as though I lack friendship entirely in my life. I never once considered the motivation and driver of validation within myself and why that makes Quality Time my love language. You described it absolutely perfectly in this video, and it really opened my eyes to things I didn't even really consider about myself.
Incredible breakdown video tbh. This is some next level psychological understanding.
Silco is the manliest man in the show, he valued loyalty to the one he loves more than his own life and dreams.
He's a pathetic excuse of a human who would see half the population of the underworld die instead of doing the only right thing he could have done his whole life
And Vander*
Is that manly or is that just things humans would do for people they love. Let’s not get carried away and kid ourselves into thinking everything is masculine or feminine
yeah honestly when i read this comment i was like howd you miss the whole point of the video xd @@kakonthebed
@@kakonthebedehh it tends to be linked in most media, but yeah people protect loved ones
I can't believe how you were able to sum up the common issue in parental male relationships, is the child seeking validation. Wanting their father figure to be proud of them. My dad died 2.5 years ago and I got a tattoo with his hand writing except it wasn't him writing "I love you" it was "Make me proud" because growing up that's how he showed his love, by telling me how proud he was of me. I think I will add to the tattoo though. I still have his hand writing saying that he loves me. Just wanted to share that your effort in making this video was incredible and you hit so many things right on the head, in the show and in real life.
this video has taught me so much about my own masculinity and how its tangible affects play out in my life. thank you
yeah this entered my brainspace just two days before my orientation meeting for a very intensive psychological treatment (this is my 4th round of treatment so wish me luck) and it really helped find the words on (part of) what I'm missing and need from the treatment.
take the 💊, it'll teach you a helluva lot more
@@DTreatz trying to redpill people in league of legends video essay comments. no bitches?
For me it has to do a lot with the setting in which arcane is on... the majority of characters have rough backgrounds with a not-so-kind childhood, and being forced to grow up quickly in dangerous surroundings can make people want to become "stronger" and since being strong can be associated with being masculine (there are exceptions) that's the behavior they show others. It's hard to allow yourself to be feminine and open in a world where you have to fight others physically almost daily.
I think this is a really interesting take, especially considering that one of the most feminine characters, Caitlyn, didn’t grow up in an environment that would have forced her to feel the need to be strong (at least, in a life-or-death kinda way)
And you’re right that there are exceptions, I think Mel is a good example of that (maybe?), but it is still interesting to think on regardless.
I think overall, all Arcane's characters are very human, they live in a ruthless world and they have to come up with different solutions (based on their own skills and personalities) to resolve certain situations to survive or to emerge, I really liked the "validation" part because although I think it's not necessarily a strictly gender related thing, but also in a world like Arcane's, it's very important for certain characters, mostly the phisically "weak" ones, and also because it creates a good balance and solidify their dignity , which sustans male's vulnerable side, aside from their social image/status
you know its a good show when you dont realize HOW good it is until you think about
I never noticed the parallel between Rocky and Viktor sprinting on the wharf until just now...
Silco and Viktor are my favorite characters in this show the way Silco changed from being brutal\strategical\unforgiven to being capable of throwing it all away for Jinx her daughter someone who was just like him forsaken\abandoned, we get to see him at his weakest point when he speaks to the statue of his brother and he dies while showing it. The way you get to see him become a true father is exquisite I wished there were more Silco scenes.
And Viktor a character that I would describe as despair & hope someone who had talent yet wasn't recognized yet the moment he had a chance Jayce steals the spotlight pushing him back to square 1 and when he finally manages to cure his leg he gets hope of fully curing himself yet despair appears once more by realizing he doesn't have more liquid yet he still foolishly hopes for a better outcome and proceeds' with it resulting in him losing the only person that truly cared about him showing how his obsessiveness on his research and not asking for help truly ended up hurt him.
Theres at least one female gender stereotyped male character. Vic perfectly fits the stereotype of women trying to make it in a male dominated field. People look down on him, they don't take him seriously he doesn't get credit for his accomplishments, the credit is given to his male partner. Nobody expects anything of him except eventual failure. They pity him and think he's out of his lane.
this might be bc he is disabled
this might be because of the classism and the grey lung rot and his inability for public speaking and social, not feminine typing
@@allurajane4979 Very true, but it is undeniable that said experience is similar to that of a lot of women in male dominated fields like OP stated.
@@allurajane4979 You are correct, disabled men are often treated in very emasculating ways. My husband deals with this on a regular basis.
The idea of using humongous shifts to female gender norms but on the other hand using moments to challenge male masculinity is genius in a way that I would've never thought of. Man and women have different challenges, therefore they can't be written identically. Great breakdown!!
I feel they're all different representations on masculinity and on how masculine characteristics aren't necessarily bad but they do need to be ironed down or at least managed as much as stereotypically femenin characteristics, being kind and giving is bad when it puts you in the way of manipulation just as being overly egotistical will close doors in work and relationships as a whole, arcane is amazing as showing that even the good qualities expected for each gender can be bad if not controlled
bro, ngl
your videos ALONE have made me more and more inclined to start writing
you're genuinely so inspiring and seeing your new, different perspectives is always amazing
Came back to this video after watching the beginning of season two, and it’s an amazing analysis even two years after.
Yo, I am a cis straight dude who is flamboyant and feminine and this gave me some context about my relationship with dad. I held a grudge for a long time for he has never as far as i remember said i love you. At lunch when my family was together i brought that up, and he was so pressurized by my mom and brother he said i love you you fool to my mom which is also a rare occurrence. It seemed as if though he felt weak at that moment.
I am a cis bi girl who is quite masculine, and I've always not liked saying the words "I love you", or "I love you too" when someone says them to me. I would not say them for the longest time, until my brother asked me "why won't you tell mom you love her back?" Because of that I felt like I had to, even if I didn't like doing so. I said it once or twice lmao. Even if I truly love them as well, it does make me feel weak saying those words, I'm not very expressing of my emotions and I don't feel I need to say those words for people to know how I feel. I've realized because of this video that although being a woman I prefer validation over other forms of love. I don't care when someone says they love me, in fact it makes me feel a bit awkward because those are such strong words, that I feel are unnecessary unless in very very hard times. I get more enjoyment and feel better when people recognize my hard work, and believe that I will succeed in my goals, or simply just stay beside me as we walk through life without commentating on how we feel about each other, because we already have a mutual trust and don't need to express ourselves anymore than we do to achieve success.
@@TheWackiestDemon Emotion does not make us weak - it makes us strong. It is cowardice to not show who we truly are. Best of luck.
@@TheWackiestDemon You're valid.
I also encountered this, but in a more subtle way: I was talking with a coworker and somehow we ended up discussing about giving compliments to other people. I told her that I struggle with it and she was very puzzled and asked why.
I couldn't really answer, yet I stumbled to a answer that my mouth formed on it's own and it was just some bullshit about "not wanting to peg their ego for I'm an ego-death idealist". But in that moment and ever since, I knew it was a far deeper problem stemming from something I had very little control over.
I think it's simply this same thing: Saying "I love you" is a compliment of sorts, a very strong one. I could never say it to barely anyone, maybe the love of my life like once in a lifetime. 3 words that raise my pulse like I was about to do a skydive...
It's not weakness I feel, but a weird form of emberrasment. Kinda similar when you get compliments and feel emberrased a bit.
But it probably is weakness. There's is a clear feeling of "hollowness" while I give compliments, almost as I myself lost something. Lost what? The compliment I was storing? Integrity? My face? No clue...
@@jesustyronechrist2330 It leaves you vulnerable to tell someone you love them, because you don't know how they will respond. Will they laugh? Will they make fun of you? Will they reciprocate? Does it matter? etc. It's hard, but getting to the place where you know they could react in any way and yet you say it anyway, that is a form of strength and bravery.
Hope this helps somehow.
See this is why your channel is so GOT DANG GOOD and has gotten so much traction. Because as you examine a part of a story and the depth of its layers and how fantastic and nuanced it is, you're also explaining how how those deeper themes apply to real life with a high level of your own nuance and treating these real subjects with the thought and respect they deserve. You're breaking down a huge number of things and how they are all connected both within the show and in the greater context of what the show (and your analysis) can each us as people interacting with others we have difficulty understanding. AND HOW TO WRITE BETTER. You do this super well and I don't normally comment on videos often but you have so consistently expanded my understanding and impressed me with your well explained takes on so many of your videos I really don't know how else to show my appreciation. These videos and especially your scripts are of such a high quality (like how your on screen text is often a more humorous way of saying what you're saying or a more detailed explanation to cover what the script couldn't fit naturally, great touch seriously) these must take a lot of work to make and I just hope positive feedback makes it feel worth it. Because let me tell ya brother my feedback is POSITIVE. You deserve every single subscription you get, including mine. ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐
wow too kind lol, thx so much!! 🤗
im obsessed with how you explain things, the way you organize ur topics, n the clips/cuts you use. i think i've watched 10 of ur vids in a row over the past 12 hours
I feel like Arcane can teach people a lot about themselves as well. Im a woman, but I express love the way most men do. This was the first time that I watched a series and actually felt changed afterwards, and not just for an hour or two, but for good.
This is a fascinating video and one of the best definitions/discussions I've found on "fragile masculinity". It's not that masculinity is fragile in itself, but it's this purity aspect that isn't applied to femininity. I think it's a great way to discuss the differences between how people break gender roles between women and men as well as the double standards involved. It's definitely a good reason why we see more women with consistent masculine traits (especially in appearance) in contrast to men.
Dude. The revelations you found in Arcane and now pass to us, this is wonderful. Thank you.
"sometimes violence is the answer" im framing that to my wall
On a serious note though, i really love these gender related arcane videos. Keep up the good work snow
yeah that one might get me in trouble down the line...
@@schnee1 why though? You’re right
@@chockyglocky0577 (laughing emoji)
@@schnee1 "Frankly speaking I would perfer, when discoursing on nature, to utter useful things even if no one should understand, rather than to conform to popular opinion and thus gain the constant praise that comes from the many."- Epicurus
To be honest, in the moment where Vander strangled Silco, and when he was about to kill him later on, I interpreted it as a tragic moment for Vander's character -- to me his return to violence was a representation of a personal failure, in the 'war is a failure of statecraft' sense, implying that for all his strength, the situation arose because he was a weak leader.
Holy shit, I am really stunned by your reasoning that men's love language is Validation. That makes so much sense in real life. Just as you said, you could feel it but wasn't able to name it until you actually devoted time to think about it. I see that now, not only in men, and it literally opens a new level of understanding people for me. Thanks for making this video :)
I really appreciate your take on the topic of masculinity.
I wish more men could see that countering toxic expectations on masculinity isn't just about freeing women, but about freeing men as well.
"We don't get a male sex symbol."
"We don't get femboys."
Me looking at Viktor:
You spelled Vander wrong
Victor is just sick
Old Vik is more of your sick, sad boy everyone fauns over. He looks like a vampire, not a sex symbol or a femboy.
Now, that dude Mel's mom was with???? That's a meal everyone wants a bite of.
@@innitbruv-lascocomics9910 all the things id let him do to me
u right
As someone who commented on your last video saying the "They write women as people" thing, I heavily appreciate the respectful and direct correction, you're a damn good person.
My personal outlook on a lot of prejudice in current society is "everyone is a person, and people deserve to be treated equally" as racism and sexism are still prevalent, but who is the target has been *ever so slightly* tilting in the opposing direction over the past few years, which I feel needs to be addressed before the very people who have been victims unwittingly because the perpetrators in the far future. (prejudice in any group towards any other group is a problem, as it's unfounded.)
The way you describe how Arcane writes women and men differently is definitely not problematic, and is helpful to both sides, and I appreciate being given a different viewpoint which is equally concerned for everyone as a whole and not just having a bias towards one group.
Thank you for being so respectful, concerned for the correct interpretation of your own points, and lack of aggression towards those who incorrectly took your points previously. I'm seriously in admiration as that last thing is still something I struggle with. (It's no justification, but I just get very annoyed with having to repeat myself when someone takes what I say the completely wrong way).
Also, just realised I didn't subscribe????, wtf???, I could have sworn I did after your last Arcane video but I guess not.
Eh, the concern about groups who have previously been subjected to prejudice becoming the ones who subject others to it is a little overblown imo. Historically disadvantaged groups still lack the systemic power to truly victimize the groups who have held most of the power. Of course, people from all groups will have individual biases and prejudices towards and against one another, but without overarching systemic influence, individual prejudice can't really do that much damage. The "both sides" analysis doesn't really work because both sides are not on equal footing. The voices of groups who have been victims of prejudice/discrimination are for sure becoming more prevalent, but little to no systemic power has shifted in their favor. And of course this doesn't excuse harmful attitudes that people from the less powerful groups may express, but I think it does contextualize it a bit. Again, as long as historically victimized groups lack systemic power, the historically advantaged groups aren't in any real danger of being reverse-victimized.
@@bromo8874 I agree with you wholeheartedly, and I want to reestablish that my whole stance in more of a "preventative" stance solely towards the concept of ensuring that as they do gain systemic power, that the prejudices are eliminated before they get to that point (in everyone, not just the groups who have been previously oppressed, that would be silly).
I fully realise there is a difference, I'm not arguing that, what I'm saying is that it can reach a point where we might just be making excuses for people who really don't deserve it, based off superficial aspects like skin colour and gender and sexual orientation/identity.
My stance is not focused on denying liberties or obviously important social acceptance to these groups, but simply ensuring that we're applying the same rulings to everyone regardless of factors outwidth sensible reasoning.
Basically in a small example, if you don't hire someone because they're straight, it's the same as not hiring someone because they're gay. (and this would apply to all prejudices not just homophobia/heterophobia)
There's factors outside of that that matter far more to almost all jobs, and the same consideration should be given to both sides of the coin rather than just one.
My example is specifically looking at a case where the only decision made is based off of sexual orientation, just as the only examples that are actually a case of wrongdoing on the flipside are also cases where the decision was made based solely off of someone's sexual orientation.
My confusion does often come from when people assume the circumstances I'm talking about, which I clearly state are to do with actual prejudice and not an action we can justify with "Ah, my ancestors treated them like crap, I'll not say anything about how they just said out loud that white people need to be purged as a joke". As, in that obvious example, it is a joke at the expense of a race of people who have systematically and politically abused them, which is fair as it's a joke and harmless.
But my examples, and the situations I'm talking about, are cases where it would be a bit more like "Ah, this group of people who were systematically and politically abused by my ancestors are making up lies about how I put flaming crosses through their mail slot and called them slurs just because they have a socially reinforced concept of superiority from being the victim, and feel they deserve to be able to do this to me as I am of the same race as their ancestors oppressors"
the specificness of those examples is only due to my own need to apply a story to them, and the second is a very clear cut example of racism without the added word baggage I applied, but that's what I'm trying to get at. It's hardly an uncommon occurrence when that sort of thing happens, just as it's hardly an uncommon occurrence on the flipside, I just feel both sides need to have attention brought to them to help show that prejudice isn't "exclusive" to the people who originally had said prejudice, and that it's far too easy to develop one without even realising it.
Sorry for wall of text, this is a rare occasion where I'm able to actually speak my mind on this topic without feeling like I'm being attacked for something I don't actually believe in in the first place (defending hateful world views), and I guess my fingers took the chance to type out a bit too much.
@@bromo8874 They already have "systemic power" though. Or, more aptly, groups within Western society acting on their behalf against "oppressor groups" do. There are no laws or policies specifically targeted at disadvantaging "oppressed groups" but there are towards "oppressor groups." Furthermore, institutionalized ideological radicalization against these "oppressor groups" is another danger to their well-being beyond becoming systemically disadvantaged. It is frequently downplayed as sympathy or concern for an "oppressor group" is something seen to be deserving of mockery but ideological radicalization is what creates groups like the EFF and leads to them becoming the 3rd largest party in the South African parliament.
@@bromo8874
It's not apt to phrase it as "becoming the ones..." because it is true both can be subject to it at the same time.
And this new issue will need to be addressed at some point because indignity does not scale linearly with strife. Say white people become harrassed and discriminated about... 10% what the average black person is. They won't feel 10% as indignated. It would probably be like half, taking into account the motions to try and advantage this historically disadvantaged group. Multiply half by five times the population, and the average sentiment becomes anti-black again. I would not call the concern overblown because I've barely seen this concern covered at all.
@A Midnight Dreary I know this was months ago but I just want to say that no racist policy is going to explicitly mention race anymore, I could make a tax against sunburns and say this tax has nothing to do with race but you know that this policy will tax white people more then anyone else. Institutional racism is subtle and it's very much still here, just look at the lawsuit going on right now in the south where state agricultural departments and southern banks were caught working to bankrupt black farmers.
God I remember this exact conversation in a sociology class once. Something to the effect, masculinity is something you do, but femininity is what you are. Men have to constantly preform masculinity at risk of loosing it. Women however cannot escape femininity because femininity will always be considered default for them whereas masculinity is something that has to be constantly upkept. Don't remember exactly that's just part of what I remember.
Something interesting is that if you define Fatherhood as validating the child and Motherhood as protecting the child...I'd argue both Silco and Vander do both as well. Vander validates Vi in several key ways, letting her go on missions, giving her space to lead the team, teaching her to fight and taking pride in her winning the fight with Silco's street toughs. But, he also struggles to protect Vi, most notably his attempt to take the fall for Vi in Episode 3. And his entire relationship with Powder is built on protection. His dying words are literally her telling Vi to keep Powder safe. And Silco is oftentimes spending more screentime openly protecting (or, at least, doing what he *thinks* is protecting) Jinx. Silco shields Jinx from repercussions on multiple occasions, but most notably uses the Firelights as a decoy for her after her progress day heist. And, if we're to believe him, he was always planning to turn down Jayce's deal for a free Zaun PURELY to protect her from those same repercussions. He takes her to Singed after the bridge fight to save her (arguably, more of a healing thing, but, again, is about keeping her from facing consequences) and he even stands up to the Chem Barons, his own people who are keeping him in power, to defend her. Arguably, again, if he's to be believed, him trying to capture Vi before Jinx found out was to also protect her feelings.
I also feel like there's something of a transition for both parents. When we first see Vander and Vi's relationship, it's built almost entirely on respect and validation. Vander is chastising her for being reckless while still finding ways to praise her, pointing out how the others look up to her (ie, indicating that she is successful as a leader figure) and ending on an off-hand comment implying he's proud she can stand up to these much older bruisers in a fight. Towards the end, though, his focus has shifted to just keeping her safe. First he goes to Benzo's shop to take the fall for the opening heist in Vi's place. Then, at factory, he tries to send Vi away to protect her. And his final act is giving up his revenge and rage to save Vi from the fire. As I hinted at before, his first real scene (dealing with the outsiders at the bar) is about validation, demanding they honor their end of a deal when dealing in the Lanes, and his final scene is about protection, saving Vi and then telling her to keep Powder safe.
Silco is the opposite. His opening scene is comforting Powder, pulling her into an embrace (a traditionally protective and comforting gesture) and telling her he'll save her from being alone. And while there are plenty of moments where he does validate (telling her he trusts her with the hextech, sharing his baptism moment with her), his primary actions remain being about shielding Jinx from the consequences of her actions. But then, his final moment, while dying from wounds she gave him, he validates her completely in a way no character has before. I'm not sure if there's a parallel there, but I find it interesting that these characters, made to be mirrors of each other, have opposing but reflective arcs in their parenting style.
I think is bs how one action is labeled differently depending on if a man or woman does it. You say the hug was malt and protective. But let me guess, loving and kind of a woman did it.
This is just an issue I’m pointing out. Not an attack.
This clearly shows that unconditional validation without chastizising is not good parenting, and Vander's way was better.
@@MinosML Silco does chastise her at one point, but it doesn't last very long. She disarms him pretty quickly when she shows that her recklessness paid off when she presents him with the stone.