Using Vulgar Destreza | Sala Batallador HEMA
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- Опубликовано: 6 сен 2024
- In this video Alberto from the el Batallador is going to execute a Vulgar Destreza technique.
Vulgar and Verdadera Destreza where two points of view for understand the theory and practise of fencing in Renaissance and Renaissance Iberia.
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I read Godinho's El Arte de Esgrima when I was first getting into HEMA. I started sparring with my (in most cases) much more experienced classmates and instructors who practiced Italian rapier. For that reason, my interpretation of the text ended up being far more similar to the styles done by Giganti and other Italian masters.
What are some defining features of Vulgar Destreza as opposed to Verdadera Destreza?
Well it is complicated, but in summary, vulgar destreza was taught as a set of techniques ,whereas verdadera destreza was a complete fencing theory, explained with geometry but surely both of them looked similar in practice.
Vulgar Destreza is an amount of tricks learnt from the soldiers, Verdadera Destreza was a full theory. When Vulgar Destreza relied on phisical stregth, agility and high risk to overcome their enemies, Verdadera Destreza relied on dexterity, patience and safety to control their oponent blade and use against them. But careful, an Verdadera Destreza user can do Vulgar Destreza tricks as well...
I think its slightly more complicated than either previous commenters understand. Like any martial art, its not just about the cool moves, its about understanding the underlying philosophy.
Destreza is a really cool looking fencing style that has a really cool and aggressive stance and is really fun to watch.
La Verdadera Destreza is, directly translated, The True Art of Defense. The underlying philosophy is that you are to remain defended at all times. The aggressive posture, designed to keep both a sword and a long distance between you and your opponent at all times. Even one of the coolest techniques in the art, the movement of conclusion, is intended to protect you from the legal consequences of winning a duel. When one practices V. Destreza, they will always put their safety at the forefront and will sacrifice a chance to end the fight for the opportunity to survive.
Having said that the techniques associated with Destreza are still a totally legit fighting form and if someone seeks to practice them with less emphasis on defense they can still do well, but in doing so they are practicing vulgar destreza as they are not using the techniques as intended.
In the case of this video the guy who ducks is not even using vulgar destreza. He uses knowledge of destreza to exploit an opportunity against his opponents, but the duck in and thrust is more modern techique than historical and the fact that he took a sword to the back for his troubles is why.
@@jonathonclary1681 Destreza=Dexterity, not Defence. Defence=Defensa.
Vulgar Destreza was known as the dirty version of Verdadera Destreza.
Where could one start to learn vulgar destreza? While standard HEMA, and full fencing systems, are cool, I think it would be really nice to have that set of techniques and a freer system.
La Destreza Vulgar is effectively a name for any mutt-system that a common person would use in Iberia. It usually (or may not) has aspects of La Destreza Verdadera (Rada, Thibault, ect), but it definitely has techniques and inputs from other places; depending on the person fencing, their equipment, and their experience.
Essentially, read and really understand a method of La Destreza Verdadera (I really do like "Nobleza De La Espada" (Rada)), then look out at italian (I like Marozzo) systems and Joachim Meyer (my personal favorite for Germanic traditions), Swetnam (english), ect. I also personally look at Liechtenhauer stuff, and some of the recreations of much older Arming Sword methods, since my personal sword amounts to an Type XIV blade with a slightly more complex hilt. Even take a look at some saber/falchion/backsword stuff (like George Silver and Angelo). Understand what they're saying (and why it works in their system), then take the aspects of each system you study and combine them to make something that works for you.
Just be careful relying on "false techniques" (false according to Verdadera schools, since they unnecessarily risk your life; as minimizing unnecessary risk is one of the core principals of Verdadera), that put you at excessive risk or utterly rely on a very specific response by the opponent to not get you killed. Many of the Italian/French rapier schools taught/teach some really risky things that ends up with both people dead at the end of the fight due to after-blows or double hits.
It looks pretty and all, but both fighters lost. Sure the guy who ducked avoided the thrust to the face but stil got a potential strike on the back. This example may have been better if he'd gotten a clean shot in, but all it achieved is an example of what not to do.
I see your point, but the video was recorded during free sparring and you know how things are. Having said that, the theory of the technique explained is valid, it is a risky move, but you must train those moves also to have a broad fencing repertoire.
Thank you for your comment. :)
@@DarkFury I am aware of how it is. I've even lost to moves like this more than Id like to admit to. However, we are not in a race to the finish. Our game may look fast and chaotic, its a chess match. Sometimes you do need to take risks, sometimes high risks. But your video is an example of what not to do and in the course of my career not only have I lost trying to emulate videos like this, worse still I have injured people. In a chess game, you sometimes take risks. But you don't just shrug your shoulders at the risk, you take measures to ensure your kings safety. You have a plan to get him out of check, etc. I have no quams with how your fighter ducked, hoping to evade the shot to the face. My problem is that he left himself no exit in case he missed, or his opponent had prepared a response which he did. When we take risks we need to execute them with the assumption that the fight will be continuing and prepare accordingly. I don't know HEMA rules, by your rules the guy who ducked may have won, but with real swords its more likely both would have died and, in an argument with swords, a dead man is still dead regardless of the state of his opponent.
@@jonathonclary1681 You say you've lost to moves like this but then later say you don't know HEMA rules. Out of curiosity, what martial art are you practicing that would lead you to get hit by moves like this? Olympic Fencing or one of the Eastern Disciplines perhaps?
@@jessecollins3652 I fight in the SCA and I do my best to adhere as strictly as I can to the actual historical methods.
Jonathon Clary Oh cool. What texts are do you studying from in for SCA?