I'm genuinely convinced that the old inter-team rivalries have come back in a *huge* way, would explain this, and would explain why 40k is struggling to learn anything from all the other games GW is putting out.
@@boredmagala5701not friendly at all. Like "intentionally removing an entire army range from the game rather than work with another department" levels of rivalry (see beasts of chaos as the most recent victim GW manages AoS while Forgeworld is in charge of Old World)
Yeah it's strange. It's like they think we'll buy all the models from all the ranges and then have infinite time to play all the different games. There's an opportunity cost to playing and learning different games, and players just do not do that. The weirdest thing is GW themselves are limited in production, logistics and design yet burn huge resources supporting games that could be cross-compatible. But then players never seem to look at whatever new line they're pumping out and go "you know you could update 15 year old 40k kits and sell those with that design time, right?"
That was one of my main justifications buying into Chaos Daemons originally. Now, aside from the awesome Be’lakor update, they haven’t put out new demons that are cross-compatible in a loooong time.
Just look at Killteam. This is a prime example. The new edition is ONLY supporting the teams that you can buy in the killteam box sets. Yes, you can use them in 40K which needs a lot of units to work. But they are cancelling using a mix of 40K units in killteam. So many 40K players who could play killteam for „free“ will need to get dedicated killteams and are not allowed to build their own.
Yes it was. Now they are changing that. You only will get rules for the boxed sets with the specific gear options in the new edition. They want to double down here as well.
Perfect example is legionaires. They made tome available for 40k legionaires. The only way to get it is the kill team set. At $70 that's a stupid price for an upgrade sprue for 1 or 2 weapons.
Killteam 1.0 was how I got into finally playing 40k. It had its problems but I fucking loved it. Being able to build a killteam of my own with models I wanted and had on hand customising their load out and abilities and making them unique individuals had so much flavour. Now if I want to play my Marines it's just going to be the phobos squad and it will be practically identical to every other player running the phobos squad. Along with the stupid shit of making everything measured in shapes rather than just inches is asinine and bloody difficult to remember what means what and such. It fucking blows.
GW seem to be becoming more and more "lazy" where this is concerned, with monopose no option squads, legends for heresy marine and CSM gear. its a bit bizzare as they would sell loads more heresy kits that way
It’s not laziness, all of their design decisions are intentional. Everything being monopose means that they can have more elaborate detail & poses, BUT it also makes it harder to customize and drives down secondary sales of bits & 3D prints. Segmenting out each game system and making models unusuable across games makes balancing easier and they don’t have to worry about KT ruining 40K, BUT it’s also for their internal metrics to measure which games sell the best (if you buy a KT unit for 40K, they count that as sales FOR KT, even if you never play that game.) Everything has a purpose behind the scenes
@@kevino13 Hi Apologies, wasnt really clear, meant that not keeping some of these kits cross compatible is lazy in that they arent keeping up to the rules
@kevino13 it seems like it's more about control, the monopose models and rules are set up in a way where you have to run the boxes the way GW wants you to. At this point I wouldn't be surprised if they started telling me how to paint.
Monopose and less to no options saved GW money while they can still sell you at the same or higher price. There will never be another "Flash Gitz" or ye old "Warhammer Giants" where you get several extra options just for fun and flavors (having fun as a designer at the expense of GW's money? heresy thought in modern time) , options nowadays come as an afterthought if there're space left on the sprue, and even so there're modern kit with big empty space on the sprue. On the part of GW being lazy it is also true, the product no longer have a 360 shot or sprue shots, some of the products they re-released for The Old Worlds didn't even have that even though they had it in the past, and they still want to price hike.
See also Old World vs AoS. They specifically made sure the relevant updated Old World armies were discontinued in AoS and AoS armies aren’t updated in tOW. Notable exception of Chaos Warriors but they’re doing all they can to separate the aesthetics.
You're not allowed to use current Chaos STD models from Age of Sigmar in the Old World at all official Games Workshop events. Even though it's literally the same army. Plus Skaven & Lizardmen aren't real armies in TOW
30k Mechanicus SHOULD be the 40k army. They could’ve moved those models to plastic a decade ago and called it Mechanicus to sell boxloads, me included.
Lore-wise, would it not make *more* sense for the AdMech ones especially to be cross-compatible, given how AdMech hate (or pretend to hate) innovation, meaning that a lot of their tech should (and does) date back to the 30k era and/or is built using the exact same STCs as from that time...?
@@KittyFaerie1 It really wouldn't because multiple mechanicus branches were purged during Heresy and lost when it was reastablished as AdMech. When the whole Ordo that used model X is dead and gone for 10.000 years it's kind of hard for them to be still in use - granted, there are some models that should be available but not all of them...
A dead man would have agreed with you. And he rolled in his grave when they FINALLY moved all those sick models to plastic.... Only to ONCE AGAIN trap them in Horus Herasy exclusivly.
GW want to compartmentalise sales so they can track profitability. I've no doubt that the greater value of cross-compatibility never occurred to the bookkeepers responsible.
And I doubt that it really is that much more profitable. It is more convenient to multipurpose your models with magnets and cross system use, but it means less sales. I am sure, they ran the numbers of losses from disappointed customers vs gains from people who still buy the extra models.
This was my first thought as well. They couldn't tell which game system was driving the sales, and for some internal reasons they decided mutli-system units were now to be avoided. It could have been competing teams arguing over who 'owned' them, marketing complaining about how they thought players would be confused because they box art and styling wasn't for the system they play, the accounting side dividing up sales between systems arbitrarily or in some other way annoying the product managers by giving them sales stats that were too 'made up', or something completely different I don't know. I just know that this feels like a decision from someone higher up who doesn't like how one product used in multiple lines messes up their processes.
I wouldn’t even be surprised if we didn’t get a new Chaos Daemons Codex, and the daemon models got purged just like Deathwatch, with what remains being added to god-specific legions like the World Eaters or Emperor's Children.
The only ones I see staying till 11th are deamon prince and spawn. They may throw chaos a bone and still allow them as allies like agents for an edition or 2.
It's an easy "range expansion" for the god-specific legions, helps kill cross-compatibility, and "frees up" an army slot. For Belakor they either add him to CSM exclusively or allow him to be allied in to CSM + each god legion. They might keep the Daemon index around to throw a bone to Daemon players
I mean… that’s not removing a faction, it’s putting four factions that have no business being together with the thematically appropriate factions. Playing Nurgle daemons has sucked since last edition given how completely terrible the army rules are at bringing the correct theme to the table. Meanwhile AoS is doing it a thousand times better.
We were promised 40k rules for 30k Mechanicum a long time ago. The Imperial Armour "Fires of Cyraxus" book was delayed and rewritten for 4 years and then disappeared, seemingly they gave up.
@@acidnine3692 It’s not that nobody cared, it’s that literally no one else had access to the files for the stuff he’d written, so it all had to be scrapped. Love some misinformation on the internet. “We remember” indeed.
My understanding of the "logic" behind this is that the kits for different games and settings are developed by different teams and budgets and the money men want no cross sales so they can precisely track how well each investment pays off.
My understanding is that this is because of the money men of the respective teams, because (for example) buying Seraphon to play Lizardmen in Old World counts as profit for the AoS team rather than the Old World team.
If anything, cross-compatibility SHOULD be the direction GW needs to go… If ALL the models had value in ALL of the games, and everyone could do whatever they want with them, then their sales should go up. OR they could keep doing as they have been and eventually lose out on sales as 3D-printing eventually becomes cheap and widespread enough to put their models sales out of business.
@@treytison1444 Sure, but how accessible and common are they to the average person to get? Once 3d Printing gets to the point where everyone can get those models easily, that's when they can become competition towards GW. I hope it comes to that point one day, but as of right now, high quality 3d printer sellers have rip off prices just like gw.
I’ve heard the reason is exclusively to keep better track of each game’s financial performance, which would make sense from an exclusively business perspective… if Daemons weren’t a core part of fantasy and 40K. But given how GW will bend over backwards to appease shareholders at the cost of the crumbs of good will they have left with their fans, I’m sure GW’s designing 40K exclusive Daemon kits as we speak :)
That's what I've heard as well. Which is ridiculous. I pretty sure AoS sales have gone up, not because of AoS, because people want newer models for The Old World. And if I'm right, it's destroyed the entire reason to keep them separate.
Aos and 40K are made by the main studio, so that’s probably why it’s allowed. Different teams but under the same umbrella (vs heresy which is the total separate specialist design studio)
Given that my main game is AOS, I'm having fun building a Horus Heresy army that is technically compatible with 40k in case I play either of those. Cataphractii are just terminators. Basic tac marines are eternal, and 40 of them with 10 special weapons is really 5 tac squads. Dev squads are eternal. Even the Deredeo is (with some kitbashing) a perfectly viable Ballistus dread. I don't plan to play tournaments, so it's good enough for me!
30k marines have a good deal of compatibility with primaris datasheets funny enough. Fully bolter armed tacs become intercessors, support squads become infernus, hellblasters, eradicators, etc. Plus you can then bring redemptors and spartans as their legends datasheets. Ive been using my 30k dark angels in 40k for a while now.
Just disrespectful to be honest. A lot of CSM players had the old resin models or just bought the new updated plastic ones. Only for GW to squash the range.
The most sensible way would be to a have a key model or two to work in two or even 3 games then the temptation to get into the other game starts and you spend another £400
And here we are. Instead of just selling blister packs to upgrade basic units, like intercessors into hellblasters, we have to deal with GW boxes not being able to all fit on any store's GW wall
This is why chaos daemons where originally a support for both chaos space Marines and chaos warriors so you needed to buy the army for you game, aka csm for 40k and warriors for fantasy, and you could buy a few daemons to support them. Then they made the daemons their own army in both games, allowing people to buy just one army for both games
I don't enter tournaments, or play in any other form of official setting. I only play in very casual games with my mates. So I created my own datasheets for some HH units so I could use them in 40K. Create your own fun.
As someone who plays both 40k and Magic and am in the loop about scummy gaming industry practices in general, I've had to have a tough inner monologue with myself, coming to terms with the fact that Wizards, GW, Activision/Blizzard... ...are companies. Companies are NOT our friends. As much comaderie as we have in our fandoms, the companies DON'T CARE. They exist to make money. And that sucks. I'd love to see in many years politicians run specifically on cracking down on these greedy, wasteful industries!
Surely more cross-compatibility means more player buy-in across all their products. e.g. If they got me buying a 30k box I might end up spending money on that alongside 40k.
Yeah, but how is the bean counter supposed to mark that? Is it a 40k or 30k sale? Do you count it for both? For neither? At half price? Or only for one, even though you don't know for which system it was bought? How do the inept team leaders and managers justify their expensive existence to shareholders without precise and nice looking, but meaningless KPI lists? Your talking about GW here, the company who shafted one of their store managers, because after taking over an ailing shop and starting with four years of ~600% growth, he then fell off to ~20% and then a ~5% and ~10% growth rate in the three following years. And I mean, that just proves how lazy he had become, given how 600% growth rates were clearly possible, as the past had shown. And they were proven right, because after years-long a series of interim managers and plummeting sales, the next good manager achieved ~200% growth for several years again, before that guy too left the company.
Over the long years the one core thought I have of GW's leadership is that they HATE the idea of anyone getting to do anything to do with their products "for free". If GW could find a way to do it, they'd want people to pay royalties to them every time they played a game or deployed a unit in it and they would if they could, ban anyone from playing gw games with anything but official GW terrain, on official gw battlemats using official GW dice and where non-GW paint is banned and you're not allowed to paint with a non-GW brush or use non-GW clippers and glue to remove & put the model together. Where the only place you're allowed to buy the miniatures from is GW itself, with the ultimate goal to destroy local stores, independent stockists and completely detach the people who play their game from doing so anywhere but a GW store or 'home games'. GW don't see miniature wargaming as the 'hobby' they see Games Workshop as "the hobby", and having someone go to an LGS they might accidentally get hooked into playing Bolt Action or Battletech or Black Powder or giving up on GW's rules and playing OPR instead or they have old grognards playing 40k 3.5 edition instead of GW's modern TCG-style crap. Using a model kit in two games is getting one of them "for free" in the eyes of GW. In their view, it's unfair on GW for a customer to purchase a product in 40k and then also get to use it in kill team. Their view is that you are stealing a sale of a Kill Team (C)(TM) boxed set from GW if you use a 40k unit to play Kill Team. This isn't "interteam rivalry" imo. It's merely GW leadership being greedy as usual and trying to build their self-described "moat" around the hobby to stack up money even at the cost of their customers having a good experience.
This strategy is so frustrating. I could've easily gotten into HH if they didn't fully separate from 40k. Now, instead of buying a few HH kits to flush out a HH army using some shared 40k kits, one is forced to start from scratch. I will not be doing that and will stick with 40k exclusively. Shared units are the reason I got into Drukhari from Aeldari Ynnari collecting.
Of course they do. It gets them more money. Why let a player only pay once for an army that can play multiple games when you can make them buy multiple armies for those games instead? Its pure profit motivation no matter how they dress it. And heck, with what they just did with Stormcast Eternals with the unit squating they did, and the Kill Team announcement that a whole bunch of kill teams were no longer going to be legal, the writing is on the wall that they may make us re-buy entire armies eventually under the guise of "model updates".
I really don't understand this stuff. Surely being supported in 40k would increase sales of their more niche products in Kill Team, Heresy and Necromunda. Why would they be against more sales?
I am still somewhat disappointed about the lack of relic tech support for the Adeptus Mechanicus from the Mechanicum vaults years after they stopped making Imperial Armour books for 40k that broadened the game into a setting. Just consider how much scenery in the new Space Marine game came from old forge world model designs. I have purchased a lot of niche and centrepiece models from Forge World, including a resin Cerastus Knight Castigator for 40k, only to see them re-brand the kit for the Horus Heresy setting. Sure, it was a rare unit in contemporary 40k but that is the game the kit was designed for. If GW keep retiring support for models for 40k I might have to reconsider my future financial support for the company and find a company that does not engage in these practices.
Omnissiah please just give me my 30k admech in 40K that’s all I want EDIT: and give me back my servitors! I didn’t buy a techmarine just to look at it!
I really think GW expects average customers to own full armies for several different games, and they make the models as different/incompatible as possible because of this. That's unrealistic thinking with their insanely high prices, but hey, they're often out of touch with their customers.
Bought the first HH box because I’m a OG ‘87 rogue trader… The up scale of the HH models just makes it more diverse. The Cataphractii Terminators from that box I’ll play as 40K terminators. The Contemptor Dreadnought I’ll play as a REDEMPTOR dreadnought
Yes, this is probably the most hated thing gw does. The "updated" guard sentinels use a different size base than the old ones, *only* to make using the old models illegal and force you to buy the new models. I still have a ton of the old sentinels from the 5th ed release where they swapped a russ from the start collecting box for a sentinel
It’s an accounting problem actually. The old world vs AoS models exemplifies this very well. StS and the main studio are in competition for resources so they want to track down who sells and and much, so GW tries to keep gamelines as separate as possible
Another example of difficulties with cross compatibility are the Warhammer Quest games, Blackstone Forttress and Cursed City have loads of stuff in illegal unit sizes, if you try AoS, or 40k respectively. For example the Poxwalkers (BSF expansion) come in a pack of six and the 10 man squad of zombies ind Cursed City is missing ten zombies for a legal unit in AoS.
The old world has some mad examples the night goblins and the chaos ranges in particular have some models in them that are just worse than the equivalent AoS models and some of them were originally WHFB kits.
I'm just gonna write my own edition of 40k at this point and play that. HH and AoS cross compatable units, actually fun faction rules, make leadership matter, ect. ect.
The truth is that cross-system units got me to get into Kill Team, Age of Sigmar, and Warcry even though I was heavily invested into 40k. There is basically no foray into 30k apart from a couple of proxy models and I just don't see a point of getting into this system, that I would probably do otherwise.
mutants (like tzaangors and poxwalkers) not being available for daemons sucks, and stuff like that is probably one of the reasons they are going to split up daemons in the next chaos codexes. They are technically human, but so corrupted and warped by the chaos gods that they are easily mistaken for daemons, so it makes sense why they are in the legions, but that really makes mono god more limiting.
I think this is fairly obvious with Chaos Demons in particular. Luckily, most people dont care if you use your Necromunda Palanite Enforcers as Adeptus Arbites or Lizardmen Skinks as Kroot etc.
Of course GW hates anything that's consumer friendly. It's GW, the company that did a massive rugpull on brand new plastic dreadnoughts, by axing them from 40k literally couple of weeks later.
It’s a god awful business decision, you release leviathan dreads at the end of 9th in plastic and then suddenly those models can’t be used now there sitting on shelves, brilliant move GW why not just sell it to be cross compatible so it can entice players to play your other game system.
Given how much they charge for plastic, it’s not unreasonable to expect rules support for the long term, and some cross compatibility for some interesting/key units
8:28 I'm sorry Auspex but Tactical Squad and Devastator Squad aren't overlap but they are complements each other since they can swap the Guy with heavy weapons (The Tactical default is bazooka guy) 9:19 I think this is the most logical explanation why they simply move away from cross compatibility : Logistic. After all no miniature means no rules
Same with Sisters. The Battle Sister squad, Dominions, and Retributers are all effectively the same models. Battle Sisters and Dominions are made from the same box, and if you want a multi-melta in a Battle Sister squad, you either buy a box of Retributers or kitbash it. Once you get enough various sisters, you just build whatever squads you need out of them.
At the risk of sounding dumb, I feel like cross-compatability would be more embraced by GW. When I first got introduced to 40k, back in the early 2000s, I was in what I consider a weird place; my friend who introduced me was the owner of a lot of stuff, over a fair number of at rhe time armies, and even being a struggling college student, he was willing to buy some more. He had enough Space Marines, Guard, Nids, and Chaos to play at least 2000 points of each, and then grabbed some Grey Knights, Sisters, and stuff. He did have one friend who played; collected Tau, if my memory serves, but spent a lot, without going to tournaments, or the like. I'd say he liked the modeling, but that was a lot to buy, and paint, just to enjoy that part of the hobby, and we did play frequently. The reason I bring this up is because, for most people, I don't think that is common. They buy one list, figuring out a good way to play it, make it look together, and then occasionally buy new, additional supporting units. Once choices are made, be it paint scheme, gear picks, or unit choices, that's that; you're stuck with them, and it's too expensive to not make them work, and if you want to try something else, even more money. Obviously, GW is in this for the money, and 40k has probably never really been less than a luxury purchase, but I feel like, if they want anything aside from 40k to also be successful, they really should make 40k stuff work for it, or it for 40k, because if that is the biggest slice of their IP, that makes the most money, it feels like that would be the great thing to try additional games with, and if they like those, THEN they might feel compelled to make a few more minor purchases, until they've bought enough that they justify buying more, and away they go. It just seems a good option, instead of each line of games being separated, and saying "If you love Warhammer 40k, then you'll love Horus Heresy!", and then expect you to buy a whole different flick of Space Marines, or paint your Thousand Sons with a totally different scheme. In part, it makes sense, as a running theme in 40k is everything they've forgotten, so if theyvstruggle to make a specific plasma turret, for Leman Russ Executioners, when they still have plenty of other plasma-variant weapons, that they'd forget how to build some battle automata, they KNOW that one thing many fans love is more choices, and ways to play their faction THEIR way.
Questoris knights and armigers are in Heresy, but not Dominus knights. Why? Skitarii, Sicarians, Kastelans and Battle Servitors are explicitly mentioned in the Heresy novels, but rules do not exist in Heresy. It's frustrating
I’m going to miss when this range of Ork kits are phased out for newer ones. The warbikes, Boyz, Lootas/burns, and Stromboyz all having interchangeable gear is one of the appeals to playing Orks that I don’t think new kits will value as much.
I actually HATE that you cant use the horus heresy stuff in 40k regular games. Like the sicaran and kratos tank, all the battle automata ... are really, really awesome models and I would love to build an army around them.
The thing I hate about that is that it makes no sense fluff wise. Cawl is able to make super plasma and flying tanks but a plain old regular tank that goes fast (Sicaran) is beyond his ability to reverse engineer?
Can we be honest? GW went from the hobby being about fun, to whatever new hires they've gotten over the past 15 years just wanting to have a job and make it easy for themselves + that Mattel hire that restructured their finance strategies. GW actually, legitimately suck, in the way Blizzard went from being something special to something pretty horrendous. The political pandering, the generic designs, the soulless sculpts, the outdated model tech, the mafia-like blackmailing of fan creators and the outright predatory business practices make this a pretty terrible company. They're not the only ones, we're seeing millennial hires everywhere who just make companies un-fun and self-serving.
Its insane they prefer better sorting on one bean counter's spreadsheet than they do about making more money. Even more insane shareholders agree that this good fiscal sense, when this stupid interdepartmental rivalry has gotten me and everyone i know to quit every game in the last year or so
I think it's a big mistake. I get lore reasons why some 40k models shouldn't exist in 30k, but there are definitely 30k stuff still in 40k. I love the 40k lore, but I'm not investing into 2 different games for it. I would think it not only hurts sales for grim dark, but Sigmar as well. Nobody wants to buy 3 armies for 3 different games.
Something tells me when the Emperor's Children codex or even a Daemons one drop... All the characters that can be shared across 40k and AoS are going to get axed in 40k
mind explaining how daemonnettes just dont exist anymore? or how be'lakor doesnt exist anymore? or how helbane, great unclean ones etc etc dont exist anymore? because if they outright remove all those models, they have to errata the whole of their lore
genuinely pisses me off that I'm afraid of buying a Chaos Land Raider or Rhino because I'm afraid any non-Daemon Engine vehicle is not going to make it to 11th in a few years.
It’s getting harder and harder to continue purchasing GW models for this reason. Models aren’t video games - it takes way more time and money to put together a 40k army than a character in a MMORPG. I can’t afford to just start from scratch every couple of years because that’s what GW’s investors want.
It is a travesty that they didn't do more cross over. I'd buy the mechanicus 30k models that would be 40k compatible. As it is, they will only be purchased by 30k players.
One of the reasons I like Space Mariens (Dark Angels) and why I mostly buy new full boxes. I kit bashed so many Minis out of the spare parts, this saves me a lot of money in the long run.
tbh i would have bought more if i could use it in the armies i play. i play 40k and AoS and i'm not starting HH or Old World despite that i really like the models.
Yes. The answer is yes. The reason for this is because they don’t want you to buy one army they want you to buy multiple armies. The biggest problem GW has had for money is getting people to keep buying stuff, once you have the vast majority of your army you’re not making those big purchases anymore - the question for them is how to force you to make those big purchases again.
They already have that answer. Look at what they recently did in AoS with Stormcast Eternals. They Squated an entire section of the army so they could force people to buy more models.
The dreadnought bait and switch seemed particularly egregious. The fact that once they had plastic kits, their rules in 40k were current for just long enough for all of the pent up demand for the cheaper/more hobby-friendly plastic kits to be exploited feels like either A) a classic bait and switch, or B) their right hand doesn't know what their left is doing. Neither is a good look.
Ex-GW Rob the Honest Wargamer explained in his video “the truth behind banned models” that it’s for accounting purposes. The main studio (40K/AoS) and specialist design studio (heresy, Necromunda) are separate and in competition. GW siloed the product lines so they know who the sales (and therefore money) goes to. If you buy a Leviathan dreadnought and use it for 40k, the Heresy team makes the money, but the 40K team is obliged to use their money to write rules support for something they don’t profit from. So the choice they made was to just put a wall between them.
If I can buy models that apply to more than one game, I'm more likely to start an army in the second game. Give people incentive to spend money rather than nickel and diming everyone to death.
every extra system a model is usable in is 1 more model you dont have to buy if my mechanicus models are usable in both 30k and 40k i only have to buy 1 model, if they arent i have to buy 2 thats literally it
Not really a secret why? The management has been chasing profits increasingly, marking up old kits, making new ones set new levels of expense, etc. The sales of each model range are being tracked, and whatever sees the most sales gets the most funding. Higher pay/bonuses for the team, larger team, more releases. The 40k team loses if you buy 30k minis to play 40k. The Old World loses if you buy AoS, and vice versa. The strategy is incredibly hostile to each individual game system, and to consumers. But it is pro corporate.
A lot of player creativity, especially when creating factions in the lore, but not backed by models would be the primary reason to do "cross-pollination" of models from the other systems. I've often viewed Skaven as Dark Mechanicum members, Beastmen and Minotaurs as Traitor Guard, various Chaos Cultists as Chaos Cultists, and Sylvannyth Units as Exodite Wraithguard. The Heresy units should also be included.
With the increase in mono-pose models, cross compatibility could help alleviate the issue with repeated models without the need for kitbashing. Like with their recent warcry Wood Elf units being able to be proxied with the already existing AoS wood elves. No need of actual new rules, but rather treat it like a trading card game where you got two different looking pikachu, who does the same but got different art.
The cross-compatibility does sell more minis, IMO. For example, the majority of people might come into a game like 40k with the intention of only buying for a single army. Then Kill Team rolls around, and they try a few teams out, and before you know, they suddenly have a new investment into yet another several potential 40k armies. Armies that, prior to their KT purchase, they had no intention of buying. Same scenario I would imagine for AoS and WC (and to a lesser extent, even Underworlds).
I cant think of another company that makes things so difficult for fans to enjoy their products as Games Workshop. You can always count on them to make the worst decisions!
Speaking of this . The one thing that grabs my goat is the Adepta Sororitas Rhino vs the Immolator, Exorcist and the Castigator. The box set Rhino is clearly based on the MKIIc Mars pattern, and every other tank is based on the MKIc Deimos pattern. That makes the tanks look incoherent. You have 3 based on heresy pattern platforms and the troop carrier based on a newer platform . Why not just make a new kit for gussying up the Deimos rhino to Adepta Sororitas standards. Or release a kit for the Repressor as a unique carrier .
This is why I've pretty much stopped playing physical tabletop. I used to have enough Guard to play but sold it because I was broke and now I'm just refusing to give a company with business practices this dogshit money for their models.
i think it's a bad idea to make people buy more kits for another system my favourite example would be my own killteam expierience: required to buy a new box for killteam would rather not buy it at all but i can peek into killteam by bringing some intercessors and now am more likely to buy a votann killteam despite not having a votann army at all crosscompatible could be seen as a "free sample"
This thumbnail is so perfect, because I hate the fact that the new big Slaanesh demons aren’t usable in 40K. I know they’re new to the AoS setting, and they don’t exist in 40K, but Chaos Demons are the easiest faction to handwave this issue away! And we’ve been in desperate need for new demon models for a looong time. Besides these two and Be’lakor, Chaos in AoS has been focused on human & beastmen models ; because it genuinely feels they don’t want people having models they can use in both games!
When I got into Chaos Space Marines it was really because I wanted Space Marines with spikes. Its a bit harder to do that nowadays since I'm not into the demon engine asteric
The best ever kit was grey knights strike squad and terminator squad. Or vanguard veteran squad. You vould build anything with them. And lots of them. Like 10 sprues. Now price doubled and sprues halved. I only resin print now. Works perfectly fine. I recommend sharing resin printers in small wargaming groups. Push all tournament organizers into allowing good distinct proxies and NEVER allow recent releases as they push purchasea and never are balanced. Allow after a month or so of testing. This pushes power from gw marketing (balance) department and to the players.
unable to use those Automata in 40k Admech is a HUGE miss. (planning to buy castellax and proxy them as Kastellan and kitbash enginseer into datasmith anyway)
I do understand that some kits don't make the jump. not every kit needs to. But it's very anti GW to not have more of them double or triple dip. Daemons being a good example, knights, custodes and so on. They know their customes will buy 30k for 40k if you let them. And AOS models for 40k if you let them. AND it might even encourage them to play AOS if you use SOME of the same models...
The only explanation that really makes sense to me is what I've heard last week from a shop podcast: They use the different packs to track selling numbers for the individual system. For me that data is far less useful than happy customers that amount enough minis to play different systems with it just by adding a few more boxes. But GW's management is too far away from the customers these days. As long as they sell the plastic they don't care about what potential they waste.
Worst-case scenario, most non-GW groups should be receptive to using stuff like Heresy-era models within 40k as proxies or 'counts as' to a certain extent, anyway. The inverse is usually far more strict given the pseudohistorical focus, but even then the likes of Imperialis Militia can still infer some measure of modeling creativity.
Yes. Ever since the hasbro hire during 8th edition...been a nightmare of price hikes and way more aggresive selling/less quality. less for more is their motto
Another one odd was sending the Arvus to Legends right after re releasing it. I can understand Astra Militarum not getting full use of it but they should let tge Voidfairers units in Agents of the Imperium use it as a Transport...
I remember when the heresy models came out and they specifically said that they were meant to be used for Heresy and 40k. Then after a bunch of people bought them they said they changed their minds and you couldn’t now which was the last straw for me.
There's nowhere this is more overt right now than in between AoS and the Old World. Rumor is that this is purely from a revenue tracking standpoint, and that some execs at GW couldn't tell which games were actually getting sales due to cross-model use, so purely for revenue tracking purposes, Models are "locked" to one game to make that easier.
I feel like this a result of competitive overshadowing the older narrative game. In an effort to reduce the rules down for management they take the wealth of diversity from the rules to only what they can make versus in the past they just gave you the tools to make things and sent you forth to go make your armies
Ok so this is coming from someone who hasn't played 40k or AoS for a while (Since the tail end of 8th for 40k and the around mid 2nd for AoS), and has collected numerous miniatures from both games. I really hate the idea of them trying to separate Chaos Daemons from each other's setting, especially when they use the same Daemons, same names, same miniatures, same nearly everything. The fact that the Slanneshi Twins are just AoS exclusive has really prevented me from wanting to pick them up, and I really love how they look. I would also be really sad if they break apart Chaos Daemons in 40k into their mono-god factions. The big draw of Chaos Daemons for me is how different each unit looks but still works as a cohesive whole. For all the flaws of 7th edition I had a really good time playing Daemons in that edition (before the absolutely broken Daemonology Psychic powers were released, Daemonology was really fun but completely unfair to my opponent so I only used it when my opponent was playing equally broken armies) because both mono-god and mixed Daemons felt like they work well, and sure Mono-god Daemon forces were limiting but that was the price you paid to focus down on a particular tactic. I truly feel like splitting these up would really cause Daemons to lose something really special in the setting
I would love for half of my army to become playable again. I'm still bitter and reluctant to buy anything for fear of legends especially after land speeders, attack bikes and box dreads are pretty much unplayable. That's a lot of money for plastic paperweights.
I dont get why GW are so insistant on avoiding cross compatability. Having to start from scratch is a massive turnoff for getting into any of thee games other than 40k.
It’s a perfect example of “a penny wise but a pound foolish” thinking. If you insist on making me start a whole ass HH army to field a Sicaran instead of allowing me to include it in my 40k space marine army, I’m just going to leave the Sicaran on the shelf, sorry!
And I can tell you from experience that once a company goes public, and even some private companies, they tend to over analyze and spend way to much time going over KPI's and sales information, like they could waste multiple days in a month just going over them. And with how many games they make, keeping all that separate would definitely make those month end close meetings easier.
I'm genuinely convinced that the old inter-team rivalries have come back in a *huge* way, would explain this, and would explain why 40k is struggling to learn anything from all the other games GW is putting out.
This reminds me of story about He-man and Barbie department rivalry on Mattel
Rivalry? Like a friendly rivalry or a not-so friendly one
wait, this could actually be true
@@boredmagala5701not friendly at all. Like "intentionally removing an entire army range from the game rather than work with another department" levels of rivalry (see beasts of chaos as the most recent victim GW manages AoS while Forgeworld is in charge of Old World)
Each team wants to record their own separate sales metrics at the expense of the customers.
Id 100% be buying models still if they could be cross-compatable. The interdepartment rivalry is costing them money
Yeah it's strange. It's like they think we'll buy all the models from all the ranges and then have infinite time to play all the different games. There's an opportunity cost to playing and learning different games, and players just do not do that. The weirdest thing is GW themselves are limited in production, logistics and design yet burn huge resources supporting games that could be cross-compatible. But then players never seem to look at whatever new line they're pumping out and go "you know you could update 15 year old 40k kits and sell those with that design time, right?"
That was one of my main justifications buying into Chaos Daemons originally. Now, aside from the awesome Be’lakor update, they haven’t put out new demons that are cross-compatible in a loooong time.
I myself would not be playing Warcry right now if I could not try the game out by using my Underworlds warbands.
Just look at Killteam. This is a prime example. The new edition is ONLY supporting the teams that you can buy in the killteam box sets. Yes, you can use them in 40K which needs a lot of units to work. But they are cancelling using a mix of 40K units in killteam. So many 40K players who could play killteam for „free“ will need to get dedicated killteams and are not allowed to build their own.
Tbf.
I kinda viewed KT as being DLC for 40K and not much else.
Yes it was. Now they are changing that. You only will get rules for the boxed sets with the specific gear options in the new edition. They want to double down here as well.
Quickest way to kill killteam as a game.
Perfect example is legionaires. They made tome available for 40k legionaires. The only way to get it is the kill team set. At $70 that's a stupid price for an upgrade sprue for 1 or 2 weapons.
Killteam 1.0 was how I got into finally playing 40k. It had its problems but I fucking loved it. Being able to build a killteam of my own with models I wanted and had on hand customising their load out and abilities and making them unique individuals had so much flavour.
Now if I want to play my Marines it's just going to be the phobos squad and it will be practically identical to every other player running the phobos squad.
Along with the stupid shit of making everything measured in shapes rather than just inches is asinine and bloody difficult to remember what means what and such. It fucking blows.
GW seem to be becoming more and more "lazy" where this is concerned, with monopose no option squads, legends for heresy marine and CSM gear. its a bit bizzare as they would sell loads more heresy kits that way
It’s not laziness, all of their design decisions are intentional. Everything being monopose means that they can have more elaborate detail & poses, BUT it also makes it harder to customize and drives down secondary sales of bits & 3D prints. Segmenting out each game system and making models unusuable across games makes balancing easier and they don’t have to worry about KT ruining 40K, BUT it’s also for their internal metrics to measure which games sell the best (if you buy a KT unit for 40K, they count that as sales FOR KT, even if you never play that game.)
Everything has a purpose behind the scenes
@@kevino13 Hi Apologies, wasnt really clear, meant that not keeping some of these kits cross compatible is lazy in that they arent keeping up to the rules
@kevino13 it seems like it's more about control, the monopose models and rules are set up in a way where you have to run the boxes the way GW wants you to.
At this point I wouldn't be surprised if they started telling me how to paint.
Monopose and less to no options saved GW money while they can still sell you at the same or higher price. There will never be another "Flash Gitz" or ye old "Warhammer Giants" where you get several extra options just for fun and flavors (having fun as a designer at the expense of GW's money? heresy thought in modern time) , options nowadays come as an afterthought if there're space left on the sprue, and even so there're modern kit with big empty space on the sprue.
On the part of GW being lazy it is also true, the product no longer have a 360 shot or sprue shots, some of the products they re-released for The Old Worlds didn't even have that even though they had it in the past, and they still want to price hike.
@@VanceHelw deathwatch veterans had a bunch of sweet options.... but they aren't an army anymore
See also Old World vs AoS. They specifically made sure the relevant updated Old World armies were discontinued in AoS and AoS armies aren’t updated in tOW. Notable exception of Chaos Warriors but they’re doing all they can to separate the aesthetics.
Age of Sigmar chaos works perfectly fine for Old World and the sculpts are way better. Heck, the current Skaven you can do the same.
@@QisforQadim Depends on the sculpts. Good luck getting the Saurus to rank up without a lot of work.
@@QisforQadim I agree - that doesn’t change the intent from GW
You're not allowed to use current Chaos STD models from Age of Sigmar in the Old World at all official Games Workshop events. Even though it's literally the same army.
Plus Skaven & Lizardmen aren't real armies in TOW
I wish 30k mechanium worked in 40k i think it would be a big win in helping the faction
Same. I’m just setting on getting the models and proxy them for different things.
30k Mechanicus SHOULD be the 40k army. They could’ve moved those models to plastic a decade ago and called it Mechanicus to sell boxloads, me included.
Lore-wise, would it not make *more* sense for the AdMech ones especially to be cross-compatible, given how AdMech hate (or pretend to hate) innovation, meaning that a lot of their tech should (and does) date back to the 30k era and/or is built using the exact same STCs as from that time...?
@@KittyFaerie1 It really wouldn't because multiple mechanicus branches were purged during Heresy and lost when it was reastablished as AdMech. When the whole Ordo that used model X is dead and gone for 10.000 years it's kind of hard for them to be still in use - granted, there are some models that should be available but not all of them...
A dead man would have agreed with you. And he rolled in his grave when they FINALLY moved all those sick models to plastic.... Only to ONCE AGAIN trap them in Horus Herasy exclusivly.
GW want to compartmentalise sales so they can track profitability. I've no doubt that the greater value of cross-compatibility never occurred to the bookkeepers responsible.
And I doubt that it really is that much more profitable. It is more convenient to multipurpose your models with magnets and cross system use, but it means less sales. I am sure, they ran the numbers of losses from disappointed customers vs gains from people who still buy the extra models.
This was my first thought as well. They couldn't tell which game system was driving the sales, and for some internal reasons they decided mutli-system units were now to be avoided. It could have been competing teams arguing over who 'owned' them, marketing complaining about how they thought players would be confused because they box art and styling wasn't for the system they play, the accounting side dividing up sales between systems arbitrarily or in some other way annoying the product managers by giving them sales stats that were too 'made up', or something completely different I don't know. I just know that this feels like a decision from someone higher up who doesn't like how one product used in multiple lines messes up their processes.
I wouldn’t even be surprised if we didn’t get a new Chaos Daemons Codex, and the daemon models got purged just like Deathwatch, with what remains being added to god-specific legions like the World Eaters or Emperor's Children.
The only ones I see staying till 11th are deamon prince and spawn. They may throw chaos a bone and still allow them as allies like agents for an edition or 2.
no offence but if they outright remove be'lakor and helbane from the game, someones catching hands
It's an easy "range expansion" for the god-specific legions, helps kill cross-compatibility, and "frees up" an army slot. For Belakor they either add him to CSM exclusively or allow him to be allied in to CSM + each god legion. They might keep the Daemon index around to throw a bone to Daemon players
I mean… that’s not removing a faction, it’s putting four factions that have no business being together with the thematically appropriate factions.
Playing Nurgle daemons has sucked since last edition given how completely terrible the army rules are at bringing the correct theme to the table. Meanwhile AoS is doing it a thousand times better.
EC coming this edition -> bye bye Daemons
We were promised 40k rules for 30k Mechanicum a long time ago. The Imperial Armour "Fires of Cyraxus" book was delayed and rewritten for 4 years and then disappeared, seemingly they gave up.
Didn't the guy writing those rules die and no one wanted to try and finish his baby?
@@ToastyPappy yup. still stinks nobody cares enough to even try and do it.
"in honor of Bligh. We Remember."
@@acidnine3692 It’s not that nobody cared, it’s that literally no one else had access to the files for the stuff he’d written, so it all had to be scrapped.
Love some misinformation on the internet. “We remember” indeed.
My understanding of the "logic" behind this is that the kits for different games and settings are developed by different teams and budgets and the money men want no cross sales so they can precisely track how well each investment pays off.
My understanding is that this is because of the money men of the respective teams, because (for example) buying Seraphon to play Lizardmen in Old World counts as profit for the AoS team rather than the Old World team.
Maybe, and hear me out... Maybe they should host actual play in their stores so they could actually gauge interest in different game systems.
@@HasNoHalo But, but that takes effort, and costs money!
@Grubnar Effort they have actively been beating out of store owners for.... some reason...
If anything, cross-compatibility SHOULD be the direction GW needs to go… If ALL the models had value in ALL of the games, and everyone could do whatever they want with them, then their sales should go up.
OR they could keep doing as they have been and eventually lose out on sales as 3D-printing eventually becomes cheap and widespread enough to put their models sales out of business.
I agree with the first half, but it's hilarious to think 3d printing holds a candle to the quality GW makes.
@@netman446some quite literally do.
@@netman446have you seen modern high end 3d printing?
I don't understand them constantly locking out 30k models. Why not just charge more points to reflect the fact they'd be much rarer in 40k
@@treytison1444 Sure, but how accessible and common are they to the average person to get? Once 3d Printing gets to the point where everyone can get those models easily, that's when they can become competition towards GW. I hope it comes to that point one day, but as of right now, high quality 3d printer sellers have rip off prices just like gw.
I’ve heard the reason is exclusively to keep better track of each game’s financial performance, which would make sense from an exclusively business perspective… if Daemons weren’t a core part of fantasy and 40K.
But given how GW will bend over backwards to appease shareholders at the cost of the crumbs of good will they have left with their fans, I’m sure GW’s designing 40K exclusive Daemon kits as we speak :)
That's what I've heard as well. Which is ridiculous. I pretty sure AoS sales have gone up, not because of AoS, because people want newer models for The Old World. And if I'm right, it's destroyed the entire reason to keep them separate.
I've heard from insiders this same thing
Theu already have in the god factions of 40k. I think deamons are gone when EC gets released. Maybe keep them as allies till 11th.
Aos and 40K are made by the main studio, so that’s probably why it’s allowed. Different teams but under the same umbrella (vs heresy which is the total separate specialist design studio)
Given that my main game is AOS, I'm having fun building a Horus Heresy army that is technically compatible with 40k in case I play either of those. Cataphractii are just terminators. Basic tac marines are eternal, and 40 of them with 10 special weapons is really 5 tac squads. Dev squads are eternal. Even the Deredeo is (with some kitbashing) a perfectly viable Ballistus dread. I don't plan to play tournaments, so it's good enough for me!
30k marines have a good deal of compatibility with primaris datasheets funny enough. Fully bolter armed tacs become intercessors, support squads become infernus, hellblasters, eradicators, etc. Plus you can then bring redemptors and spartans as their legends datasheets. Ive been using my 30k dark angels in 40k for a while now.
the horus heresy purge was insane especially for CSM and Ad Mech
Just disrespectful to be honest. A lot of CSM players had the old resin models or just bought the new updated plastic ones. Only for GW to squash the range.
The most sensible way would be to a have a key model or two to work in two or even 3 games then the temptation to get into the other game starts and you spend another £400
As a custodies player, GIVE US PLASTIC.
You now play Golden Girls. :)
@@volcano3493 my custodies are painted white thank you
I originally got my Tzeentch Deamons (mostly Pink horrors) to be able to play 40K, AoS and Old World as well as Kill team.
And here we are. Instead of just selling blister packs to upgrade basic units, like intercessors into hellblasters, we have to deal with GW boxes not being able to all fit on any store's GW wall
This is why chaos daemons where originally a support for both chaos space Marines and chaos warriors so you needed to buy the army for you game, aka csm for 40k and warriors for fantasy, and you could buy a few daemons to support them.
Then they made the daemons their own army in both games, allowing people to buy just one army for both games
I don't enter tournaments, or play in any other form of official setting. I only play in very casual games with my mates. So I created my own datasheets for some HH units so I could use them in 40K. Create your own fun.
As someone who plays both 40k and Magic and am in the loop about scummy gaming industry practices in general, I've had to have a tough inner monologue with myself, coming to terms with the fact that Wizards, GW, Activision/Blizzard...
...are companies.
Companies are NOT our friends. As much comaderie as we have in our fandoms, the companies DON'T CARE. They exist to make money. And that sucks.
I'd love to see in many years politicians run specifically on cracking down on these greedy, wasteful industries!
Surely more cross-compatibility means more player buy-in across all their products. e.g. If they got me buying a 30k box I might end up spending money on that alongside 40k.
Yeah, but how is the bean counter supposed to mark that? Is it a 40k or 30k sale? Do you count it for both? For neither? At half price? Or only for one, even though you don't know for which system it was bought? How do the inept team leaders and managers justify their expensive existence to shareholders without precise and nice looking, but meaningless KPI lists?
Your talking about GW here, the company who shafted one of their store managers, because after taking over an ailing shop and starting with four years of ~600% growth, he then fell off to ~20% and then a ~5% and ~10% growth rate in the three following years. And I mean, that just proves how lazy he had become, given how 600% growth rates were clearly possible, as the past had shown. And they were proven right, because after years-long a series of interim managers and plummeting sales, the next good manager achieved ~200% growth for several years again, before that guy too left the company.
Over the long years the one core thought I have of GW's leadership is that they HATE the idea of anyone getting to do anything to do with their products "for free".
If GW could find a way to do it, they'd want people to pay royalties to them every time they played a game or deployed a unit in it and they would if they could, ban anyone from playing gw games with anything but official GW terrain, on official gw battlemats using official GW dice and where non-GW paint is banned and you're not allowed to paint with a non-GW brush or use non-GW clippers and glue to remove & put the model together. Where the only place you're allowed to buy the miniatures from is GW itself, with the ultimate goal to destroy local stores, independent stockists and completely detach the people who play their game from doing so anywhere but a GW store or 'home games'.
GW don't see miniature wargaming as the 'hobby' they see Games Workshop as "the hobby", and having someone go to an LGS they might accidentally get hooked into playing Bolt Action or Battletech or Black Powder or giving up on GW's rules and playing OPR instead or they have old grognards playing 40k 3.5 edition instead of GW's modern TCG-style crap.
Using a model kit in two games is getting one of them "for free" in the eyes of GW. In their view, it's unfair on GW for a customer to purchase a product in 40k and then also get to use it in kill team. Their view is that you are stealing a sale of a Kill Team (C)(TM) boxed set from GW if you use a 40k unit to play Kill Team.
This isn't "interteam rivalry" imo. It's merely GW leadership being greedy as usual and trying to build their self-described "moat" around the hobby to stack up money even at the cost of their customers having a good experience.
I genuinely hate this trend. It SCREAMS corporate "how do we squeeze more money out of our customers?" more than departmental rivalry.
This strategy is so frustrating. I could've easily gotten into HH if they didn't fully separate from 40k. Now, instead of buying a few HH kits to flush out a HH army using some shared 40k kits, one is forced to start from scratch. I will not be doing that and will stick with 40k exclusively. Shared units are the reason I got into Drukhari from Aeldari Ynnari collecting.
Of course they do. It gets them more money. Why let a player only pay once for an army that can play multiple games when you can make them buy multiple armies for those games instead? Its pure profit motivation no matter how they dress it. And heck, with what they just did with Stormcast Eternals with the unit squating they did, and the Kill Team announcement that a whole bunch of kill teams were no longer going to be legal, the writing is on the wall that they may make us re-buy entire armies eventually under the guise of "model updates".
People need to vote with their wallets and refuse to update.
Proxy everything at this point.
My Rhino identifies as a Kratos tank.
9:01 this is part of the reason unit bloat is occurring as well.
So many different units for tiny changes just leads us to 5 units for one role
I really don't understand this stuff. Surely being supported in 40k would increase sales of their more niche products in Kill Team, Heresy and Necromunda. Why would they be against more sales?
I am still somewhat disappointed about the lack of relic tech support for the Adeptus Mechanicus from the Mechanicum vaults years after they stopped making Imperial Armour books for 40k that broadened the game into a setting. Just consider how much scenery in the new Space Marine game came from old forge world model designs. I have purchased a lot of niche and centrepiece models from Forge World, including a resin Cerastus Knight Castigator for 40k, only to see them re-brand the kit for the Horus Heresy setting. Sure, it was a rare unit in contemporary 40k but that is the game the kit was designed for. If GW keep retiring support for models for 40k I might have to reconsider my future financial support for the company and find a company that does not engage in these practices.
Omnissiah please just give me my 30k admech in 40K that’s all I want
EDIT: and give me back my servitors! I didn’t buy a techmarine just to look at it!
No! Buy two armies >:(
- James Workshop probably
Asking Gw wont help....we as customers can actually demand it...without us, the players, they are nothing
I really think GW expects average customers to own full armies for several different games, and they make the models as different/incompatible as possible because of this. That's unrealistic thinking with their insanely high prices, but hey, they're often out of touch with their customers.
Bought the first HH box because I’m a OG ‘87 rogue trader…
The up scale of the HH models just makes it more diverse. The Cataphractii Terminators from that box I’ll play as 40K terminators. The Contemptor Dreadnought I’ll play as a
REDEMPTOR dreadnought
Rotigus Rainfather, the precipitater of precipitation, loves to visit both 40k and aos
Both games are in the same studio.
I noticed with chaos daemons they even use different base sizes to make using models from different games as stand-ins as difficult as possible.
Yes, this is probably the most hated thing gw does. The "updated" guard sentinels use a different size base than the old ones, *only* to make using the old models illegal and force you to buy the new models. I still have a ton of the old sentinels from the 5th ed release where they swapped a russ from the start collecting box for a sentinel
It’s an accounting problem actually. The old world vs AoS models exemplifies this very well. StS and the main studio are in competition for resources so they want to track down who sells and and much, so GW tries to keep gamelines as separate as possible
Another example of difficulties with cross compatibility are the Warhammer Quest games, Blackstone Forttress and Cursed City have loads of stuff in illegal unit sizes, if you try AoS, or 40k respectively. For example the Poxwalkers (BSF expansion) come in a pack of six and the 10 man squad of zombies ind Cursed City is missing ten zombies for a legal unit in AoS.
The old world has some mad examples the night goblins and the chaos ranges in particular have some models in them that are just worse than the equivalent AoS models and some of them were originally WHFB kits.
I'm just gonna write my own edition of 40k at this point and play that. HH and AoS cross compatable units, actually fun faction rules, make leadership matter, ect. ect.
The truth is that cross-system units got me to get into Kill Team, Age of Sigmar, and Warcry even though I was heavily invested into 40k. There is basically no foray into 30k apart from a couple of proxy models and I just don't see a point of getting into this system, that I would probably do otherwise.
I’m legit surprised there is no Kill Team for Horus Heresy. They already have the core rules - all they need is to make rules for each team.
Apparently not because they keep giving tsons tzaangors
mutants (like tzaangors and poxwalkers) not being available for daemons sucks, and stuff like that is probably one of the reasons they are going to split up daemons in the next chaos codexes. They are technically human, but so corrupted and warped by the chaos gods that they are easily mistaken for daemons, so it makes sense why they are in the legions, but that really makes mono god more limiting.
Plot twist: AoS Tzeentch is going to lose tzangors when their tome drops
40k and AoS can share because they're the same studio.
I think this is fairly obvious with Chaos Demons in particular.
Luckily, most people dont care if you use your Necromunda Palanite Enforcers as Adeptus Arbites or Lizardmen Skinks as Kroot etc.
Of course GW hates anything that's consumer friendly. It's GW, the company that did a massive rugpull on brand new plastic dreadnoughts, by axing them from 40k literally couple of weeks later.
Or the Mercenaries in AoS, some of which became impossible about a month after they became an option (dwarf artillery, freeguild general on horse)
It’s a god awful business decision, you release leviathan dreads at the end of 9th in plastic and then suddenly those models can’t be used now there sitting on shelves, brilliant move GW why not just sell it to be cross compatible so it can entice players to play your other game system.
Given how much they charge for plastic, it’s not unreasonable to expect rules support for the long term, and some cross compatibility for some interesting/key units
8:28 I'm sorry Auspex but Tactical Squad and Devastator Squad aren't overlap but they are complements each other since they can swap the Guy with heavy weapons (The Tactical default is bazooka guy)
9:19 I think this is the most logical explanation why they simply move away from cross compatibility : Logistic. After all no miniature means no rules
Same with Sisters. The Battle Sister squad, Dominions, and Retributers are all effectively the same models. Battle Sisters and Dominions are made from the same box, and if you want a multi-melta in a Battle Sister squad, you either buy a box of Retributers or kitbash it. Once you get enough various sisters, you just build whatever squads you need out of them.
At this point I am completely convinced GW has no clue what they are doing
If Mechanicum units were playable in 40k, I already would have empty my bank account once again to GW. 🤷♂️
At the risk of sounding dumb, I feel like cross-compatability would be more embraced by GW. When I first got introduced to 40k, back in the early 2000s, I was in what I consider a weird place; my friend who introduced me was the owner of a lot of stuff, over a fair number of at rhe time armies, and even being a struggling college student, he was willing to buy some more. He had enough Space Marines, Guard, Nids, and Chaos to play at least 2000 points of each, and then grabbed some Grey Knights, Sisters, and stuff. He did have one friend who played; collected Tau, if my memory serves, but spent a lot, without going to tournaments, or the like. I'd say he liked the modeling, but that was a lot to buy, and paint, just to enjoy that part of the hobby, and we did play frequently.
The reason I bring this up is because, for most people, I don't think that is common. They buy one list, figuring out a good way to play it, make it look together, and then occasionally buy new, additional supporting units. Once choices are made, be it paint scheme, gear picks, or unit choices, that's that; you're stuck with them, and it's too expensive to not make them work, and if you want to try something else, even more money. Obviously, GW is in this for the money, and 40k has probably never really been less than a luxury purchase, but I feel like, if they want anything aside from 40k to also be successful, they really should make 40k stuff work for it, or it for 40k, because if that is the biggest slice of their IP, that makes the most money, it feels like that would be the great thing to try additional games with, and if they like those, THEN they might feel compelled to make a few more minor purchases, until they've bought enough that they justify buying more, and away they go. It just seems a good option, instead of each line of games being separated, and saying "If you love Warhammer 40k, then you'll love Horus Heresy!", and then expect you to buy a whole different flick of Space Marines, or paint your Thousand Sons with a totally different scheme. In part, it makes sense, as a running theme in 40k is everything they've forgotten, so if theyvstruggle to make a specific plasma turret, for Leman Russ Executioners, when they still have plenty of other plasma-variant weapons, that they'd forget how to build some battle automata, they KNOW that one thing many fans love is more choices, and ways to play their faction THEIR way.
Questoris knights and armigers are in Heresy, but not Dominus knights. Why?
Skitarii, Sicarians, Kastelans and Battle Servitors are explicitly mentioned in the Heresy novels, but rules do not exist in Heresy. It's frustrating
I’m going to miss when this range of Ork kits are phased out for newer ones. The warbikes, Boyz, Lootas/burns, and Stromboyz all having interchangeable gear is one of the appeals to playing Orks that I don’t think new kits will value as much.
I actually HATE that you cant use the horus heresy stuff in 40k regular games. Like the sicaran and kratos tank, all the battle automata ... are really, really awesome models and I would love to build an army around them.
The thing I hate about that is that it makes no sense fluff wise. Cawl is able to make super plasma and flying tanks but a plain old regular tank that goes fast (Sicaran) is beyond his ability to reverse engineer?
Can we be honest? GW went from the hobby being about fun, to whatever new hires they've gotten over the past 15 years just wanting to have a job and make it easy for themselves + that Mattel hire that restructured their finance strategies. GW actually, legitimately suck, in the way Blizzard went from being something special to something pretty horrendous. The political pandering, the generic designs, the soulless sculpts, the outdated model tech, the mafia-like blackmailing of fan creators and the outright predatory business practices make this a pretty terrible company.
They're not the only ones, we're seeing millennial hires everywhere who just make companies un-fun and self-serving.
‘Political pandering’
Fucking lmao
@@AngryAcolyte Yes and it fosters low intelligence responses like yours.
Its insane they prefer better sorting on one bean counter's spreadsheet than they do about making more money. Even more insane shareholders agree that this good fiscal sense, when this stupid interdepartmental rivalry has gotten me and everyone i know to quit every game in the last year or so
I think it's a big mistake. I get lore reasons why some 40k models shouldn't exist in 30k, but there are definitely 30k stuff still in 40k. I love the 40k lore, but I'm not investing into 2 different games for it. I would think it not only hurts sales for grim dark, but Sigmar as well. Nobody wants to buy 3 armies for 3 different games.
Something tells me when the Emperor's Children codex or even a Daemons one drop... All the characters that can be shared across 40k and AoS are going to get axed in 40k
mind explaining how daemonnettes just dont exist anymore?
or how be'lakor doesnt exist anymore?
or how helbane, great unclean ones etc etc dont exist anymore?
because if they outright remove all those models, they have to errata the whole of their lore
genuinely pisses me off that I'm afraid of buying a Chaos Land Raider or Rhino because I'm afraid any non-Daemon Engine vehicle is not going to make it to 11th in a few years.
It’s getting harder and harder to continue purchasing GW models for this reason. Models aren’t video games - it takes way more time and money to put together a 40k army than a character in a MMORPG. I can’t afford to just start from scratch every couple of years because that’s what GW’s investors want.
It is a travesty that they didn't do more cross over. I'd buy the mechanicus 30k models that would be 40k compatible. As it is, they will only be purchased by 30k players.
One of the reasons I like Space Mariens (Dark Angels) and why I mostly buy new full boxes. I kit bashed so many Minis out of the spare parts, this saves me a lot of money in the long run.
tbh i would have bought more if i could use it in the armies i play.
i play 40k and AoS and i'm not starting HH or Old World despite that i really like the models.
Yes. The answer is yes. The reason for this is because they don’t want you to buy one army they want you to buy multiple armies. The biggest problem GW has had for money is getting people to keep buying stuff, once you have the vast majority of your army you’re not making those big purchases anymore - the question for them is how to force you to make those big purchases again.
They already have that answer. Look at what they recently did in AoS with Stormcast Eternals. They Squated an entire section of the army so they could force people to buy more models.
@@coldwintersknight9793 that came later, most of these changing to legends came before the mass squatting
The dreadnought bait and switch seemed particularly egregious. The fact that once they had plastic kits, their rules in 40k were current for just long enough for all of the pent up demand for the cheaper/more hobby-friendly plastic kits to be exploited feels like either A) a classic bait and switch, or B) their right hand doesn't know what their left is doing. Neither is a good look.
Getting more admech robots would have me genuinely excited to play admech again.
Ex-GW Rob the Honest Wargamer explained in his video “the truth behind banned models” that it’s for accounting purposes. The main studio (40K/AoS) and specialist design studio (heresy, Necromunda) are separate and in competition. GW siloed the product lines so they know who the sales (and therefore money) goes to. If you buy a Leviathan dreadnought and use it for 40k, the Heresy team makes the money, but the 40K team is obliged to use their money to write rules support for something they don’t profit from. So the choice they made was to just put a wall between them.
I used to love playing my Heresy Ultramarines with my buddy’s Eldar. It’s a lot harder to do now.
If I can buy models that apply to more than one game, I'm more likely to start an army in the second game. Give people incentive to spend money rather than nickel and diming everyone to death.
They mostly do between the two studios.
every extra system a model is usable in is 1 more model you dont have to buy
if my mechanicus models are usable in both 30k and 40k i only have to buy 1 model, if they arent i have to buy 2
thats literally it
This really ticks me off. I want to use those new automatons for mechanicus for a Iron Knight for my Risen. Would look great for Icarus protocol.
Not really a secret why? The management has been chasing profits increasingly, marking up old kits, making new ones set new levels of expense, etc.
The sales of each model range are being tracked, and whatever sees the most sales gets the most funding. Higher pay/bonuses for the team, larger team, more releases.
The 40k team loses if you buy 30k minis to play 40k. The Old World loses if you buy AoS, and vice versa.
The strategy is incredibly hostile to each individual game system, and to consumers. But it is pro corporate.
A lot of player creativity, especially when creating factions in the lore, but not backed by models would be the primary reason to do "cross-pollination" of models from the other systems. I've often viewed Skaven as Dark Mechanicum members, Beastmen and Minotaurs as Traitor Guard, various Chaos Cultists as Chaos Cultists, and Sylvannyth Units as Exodite Wraithguard. The Heresy units should also be included.
With the increase in mono-pose models, cross compatibility could help alleviate the issue with repeated models without the need for kitbashing. Like with their recent warcry Wood Elf units being able to be proxied with the already existing AoS wood elves.
No need of actual new rules, but rather treat it like a trading card game where you got two different looking pikachu, who does the same but got different art.
The cross-compatibility does sell more minis, IMO. For example, the majority of people might come into a game like 40k with the intention of only buying for a single army. Then Kill Team rolls around, and they try a few teams out, and before you know, they suddenly have a new investment into yet another several potential 40k armies. Armies that, prior to their KT purchase, they had no intention of buying. Same scenario I would imagine for AoS and WC (and to a lesser extent, even Underworlds).
I cant think of another company that makes things so difficult for fans to enjoy their products as Games Workshop. You can always count on them to make the worst decisions!
Speaking of this .
The one thing that grabs my goat is the Adepta Sororitas Rhino vs the Immolator, Exorcist and the Castigator.
The box set Rhino is clearly based on the MKIIc Mars pattern, and every other tank is based on the MKIc Deimos pattern.
That makes the tanks look incoherent.
You have 3 based on heresy pattern platforms and the troop carrier based on a newer platform .
Why not just make a new kit for gussying up the Deimos rhino to Adepta Sororitas standards. Or release a kit for the Repressor as a unique carrier .
This is why I've pretty much stopped playing physical tabletop. I used to have enough Guard to play but sold it because I was broke and now I'm just refusing to give a company with business practices this dogshit money for their models.
i think it's a bad idea to make people buy more kits for another system
my favourite example would be my own killteam expierience:
required to buy a new box for killteam would rather not buy it at all
but i can peek into killteam by bringing some intercessors and now am more likely to buy a votann killteam despite not having a votann army at all
crosscompatible could be seen as a "free sample"
This thumbnail is so perfect, because I hate the fact that the new big Slaanesh demons aren’t usable in 40K. I know they’re new to the AoS setting, and they don’t exist in 40K, but Chaos Demons are the easiest faction to handwave this issue away! And we’ve been in desperate need for new demon models for a looong time. Besides these two and Be’lakor, Chaos in AoS has been focused on human & beastmen models ; because it genuinely feels they don’t want people having models they can use in both games!
When I got into Chaos Space Marines it was really because I wanted Space Marines with spikes. Its a bit harder to do that nowadays since I'm not into the demon engine asteric
Use in both means more to balance. More to balance means more work. GW doesn't get paid enough to work.
I’m kitbashing hh mk3 to my desolation minis. With a clip and a file they look great.
The best ever kit was grey knights strike squad and terminator squad. Or vanguard veteran squad. You vould build anything with them. And lots of them. Like 10 sprues. Now price doubled and sprues halved.
I only resin print now. Works perfectly fine. I recommend sharing resin printers in small wargaming groups. Push all tournament organizers into allowing good distinct proxies and NEVER allow recent releases as they push purchasea and never are balanced. Allow after a month or so of testing. This pushes power from gw marketing (balance) department and to the players.
unable to use those Automata in 40k Admech is a HUGE miss.
(planning to buy castellax and proxy them as Kastellan and kitbash enginseer into datasmith anyway)
This is one of the reasons why I decided to completely drop GW
I do understand that some kits don't make the jump. not every kit needs to. But it's very anti GW to not have more of them double or triple dip. Daemons being a good example, knights, custodes and so on. They know their customes will buy 30k for 40k if you let them. And AOS models for 40k if you let them. AND it might even encourage them to play AOS if you use SOME of the same models...
The only explanation that really makes sense to me is what I've heard last week from a shop podcast: They use the different packs to track selling numbers for the individual system.
For me that data is far less useful than happy customers that amount enough minis to play different systems with it just by adding a few more boxes. But GW's management is too far away from the customers these days. As long as they sell the plastic they don't care about what potential they waste.
Worst-case scenario, most non-GW groups should be receptive to using stuff like Heresy-era models within 40k as proxies or 'counts as' to a certain extent, anyway. The inverse is usually far more strict given the pseudohistorical focus, but even then the likes of Imperialis Militia can still infer some measure of modeling creativity.
I don't understand how this makes business sense. Unless there is fighting between game systems departments which also doesn't make sense.
Yes. Ever since the hasbro hire during 8th edition...been a nightmare of price hikes and way more aggresive selling/less quality. less for more is their motto
I'm going to use a Thanatar Cavas Siege-automata as a Warplightning Cannon for my Space Skaven army. 😁
I think I got an interesting video idea:
what will GW replace the tactical squad with? Hopes and predictions
they are a very greedy corporation. all hobby-friendliness has left the building.
The ridgehauler has genestealer cult all over it
Maybe...but it definitely has viability for looting into Orks
Another one odd was sending the Arvus to Legends right after re releasing it. I can understand Astra Militarum not getting full use of it but they should let tge Voidfairers units in Agents of the Imperium use it as a Transport...
I remember when the heresy models came out and they specifically said that they were meant to be used for Heresy and 40k. Then after a bunch of people bought them they said they changed their minds and you couldn’t now which was the last straw for me.
There's nowhere this is more overt right now than in between AoS and the Old World. Rumor is that this is purely from a revenue tracking standpoint, and that some execs at GW couldn't tell which games were actually getting sales due to cross-model use, so purely for revenue tracking purposes, Models are "locked" to one game to make that easier.
I feel like this a result of competitive overshadowing the older narrative game. In an effort to reduce the rules down for management they take the wealth of diversity from the rules to only what they can make versus in the past they just gave you the tools to make things and sent you forth to go make your armies
Ok so this is coming from someone who hasn't played 40k or AoS for a while (Since the tail end of 8th for 40k and the around mid 2nd for AoS), and has collected numerous miniatures from both games. I really hate the idea of them trying to separate Chaos Daemons from each other's setting, especially when they use the same Daemons, same names, same miniatures, same nearly everything. The fact that the Slanneshi Twins are just AoS exclusive has really prevented me from wanting to pick them up, and I really love how they look. I would also be really sad if they break apart Chaos Daemons in 40k into their mono-god factions. The big draw of Chaos Daemons for me is how different each unit looks but still works as a cohesive whole. For all the flaws of 7th edition I had a really good time playing Daemons in that edition (before the absolutely broken Daemonology Psychic powers were released, Daemonology was really fun but completely unfair to my opponent so I only used it when my opponent was playing equally broken armies) because both mono-god and mixed Daemons felt like they work well, and sure Mono-god Daemon forces were limiting but that was the price you paid to focus down on a particular tactic.
I truly feel like splitting these up would really cause Daemons to lose something really special in the setting
I would love for half of my army to become playable again. I'm still bitter and reluctant to buy anything for fear of legends especially after land speeders, attack bikes and box dreads are pretty much unplayable. That's a lot of money for plastic paperweights.
I dont get why GW are so insistant on avoiding cross compatability. Having to start from scratch is a massive turnoff for getting into any of thee games other than 40k.
It’s a perfect example of “a penny wise but a pound foolish” thinking. If you insist on making me start a whole ass HH army to field a Sicaran instead of allowing me to include it in my 40k space marine army, I’m just going to leave the Sicaran on the shelf, sorry!
Yes, they do cas they cant measure their sales and kpi's against them properly.
And I can tell you from experience that once a company goes public, and even some private companies, they tend to over analyze and spend way to much time going over KPI's and sales information, like they could waste multiple days in a month just going over them. And with how many games they make, keeping all that separate would definitely make those month end close meetings easier.