Portable vs hardwired RV EMS systems - is there any difference?
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- Опубликовано: 25 июл 2024
- In this video, we look at portable vs hardwired EMS systems for your RV, and found one huge difference. In certain situations, a portable EMS may not be as accurate as the hardwired version. Watch the video to find out why.
Also, watch my "All About EMS systems (and Surge Protectors), which provides more information about EMS systems and is a good background for this video: • All about EMS systems ...
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Portable EMS Systems:
Progressive Industries PT50X 50Amp: amzn.to/2MC3HxH
Progressive Industries PX30X 30Amp: amzn.to/3abBeqJ
Southwire Surge Guard 34950 50Amp: amzn.to/3pv1a7l
Southwire Surge Guard 34930 30Amp: amzn.to/2L4aNLi
Southwire Surge Guard 34951 50Amp (bluetooth capable): amzn.to/2Mx4HmU
Southwire Surge Guard 34931 30Amp (bluetooth capable): amzn.to/3otWflu
Southwire bluetooth Remote Display: amzn.to/2MDyiLl
Hughes Autoformer PWD50-EPO w/bluetooth 50Amp: amzn.to/39pNTY3
Hughes Autoformer PWD30-EPO w/bluetooth 30Amp: amzn.to/3otMEeP
Camco 55301 30Amp: amzn.to/3pybpaU
Camco 55306 50Amp: amzn.to/2YrQlad
Hardwired EMS Systems:
Progressive Industries 30Amp HW30C (with remote display): amzn.to/2MA9Iv6
Progressive Industries 30Amp LCHW30C (local display): amzn.to/3osG5Je
Progressive Industries 50Amp HW50C (with remote display): amzn.to/36jOUz2
Progressive Industries 50Amp LCHW50C (local display): amzn.to/39qjqZM
Southwire SurgeGuard 35550 50Amp: amzn.to/3ahrBGW
Southwire SurgeGuard 35530 30Amp: amzn.to/3iUYtt4
Southwire Remote: amzn.to/39pPY6j
Hughes Autoformer PWD30-EPO-H with bluetooth 30A: amzn.to/3iU7uTo
Hughes Autoformer PWD50-EPO-H with bluetooth 50A: amzn.to/2MDYndy
Project/Review Webpage: www.rv-project.com/gear/surgee...
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Hands down the most thourough video I have ever seen on this topic. Thank you for doing all the research and posting.
Thank you for supporting this channel.
Timeless advice from a thorough guru. RIP RVProject.
@@Ken-xv4sbbecause he is old
I am an infant in the RVing world. Still in the process of learning how to properly and safely use my new to my 2011 Jayco 31fk Motorhome. Looking at lots of videos and reading the manual to be as well informed as possible. I see now how important it is to acquire an EMS SYSTEM. Thank you for making this information available especially to those such as myself that perhaps would have discovered this the hard and costly way. Thank you.
Excellent description, easy to understand to confidently move forward with an install my EMS. I always like the Why information on any new equipment. Thank you!
I always like to provide just a bit more information in my videos. Thanks for watching.
Thank you. I had ordered the portable one but your explanations helped me understand the need of internal unit instead of external.
Extremely helpful! Answers all of my questions and more! Thanks and safe travels.
Glad it was helpful!
I installed a 50 amp Progressive EMS hardwired unit in my Class A two years ago and I am glad I did. You hit the nail on the head with the ease of use comment. I use a small tester to first check the pedestal wiring, then plug my cord into it. So easy. No security issues as you mentioned either. The remote monitor panel inside is a great help also. You covered all the bases.
Thank you for your support
Wow! Very informative. Well worth the time to watch. Thanks for explaining this in such detail, and simplified. I really appreciate you sticking to fact and not tainting it with opinion.
I decided to do this video due because of the disinformation well meaning RVers were putting out when someone would ask which was the best.
I enjoyed the simplicity and professionalism of explaining the important purpose and usefulness of an EMS system. Obviously the the hardwire is preferable to a portable one for resumed protection. Thank you.
Excellent video on this topic. Thank you. While I am going to continue the setup I have used for a number of years now this does make me think about which cord I should use. Thank you.
Thank you for taking time to respond.
Thanks Mike, very informative, also easy to understand. This will be a nice product for my camper. Ron from Belgrade Mt.
Great video. We have a 50A rig with a portable (We can't fit a hardwired unit into our electrical bay) Hughes PWD with BT and I can see a 3 volt drop from the Hughes at the source to my plug-in meter in the kitchen outlet. It drops another 2-3V when the coffee pot kicks on. Used to have more of a drop, 5V, on our previous 30A rig with a 30' power cord. We do a lot of dog shows and normally have only 20A power so we have be trained to watch the voltage and shed loads. Sometimes we have run 50' to get power. I use the Hughes autoformer to boost voltage every time I hook up in the summertime; it really helps! Keep up the good work.
Thanks for the feedback.
Very helpful! Thank you.
Great information! I'm the president of a camping club and I shared this to all our members. Thanks for the time and effort you put in on all your videos
I appreciate that!
Thank you for your support.
Thank you very much! I learned a ton from this.
You're very welcome!
Excellent informative video. Thank you.
Glad it was helpful!
Good video. I have the 50 amp Progressive hard wired model and I love the convenience. An additional advantage for me is that I have mine wired between my transfer switch and my breaker panel so it will also monitor power when I am running my onboard generator and not connected to shore power.
Thanks for the feedback.
I thank you for information
Hope more people will view this so you'll make more videos like this. Again thanks
Have you checked out my RV Technology series on my website: www.rv-project.com/tips/technology.php
Thanks for sharing. Great timing. I will probably buy one in the next few months. Like #53
Cool 👍
Excellent information , thanks !
Glad it was helpful!
Good and informative video. This would have made my decision easier without doing the homework myself and hoping I chose right. I ended up purchasing the Hughes 50A EMS box and installed it into the RV. I love the ability to monitor via Bluetooth and budget the load as necessary. The only caution I would note is when you install the EMS, (assuming you’re mounting on the RV floor in the basement, etc.) mount it on an elevated surface to insure if you have a water leak, it’s not directly on the floor.
Thank you for your input.
Excellent video. Thank you.
Glad it was helpful!
Very good analysis.
Thank you for your kind words.
Great video, I'm new to RVing, you seem very knowledgeable . I have a 30A RV. Could I run a 50A cable (avoid V drop) from the post to an 50A to 30A adapter in the bay, plug into the portable ems, then a shorter 30A from the bay to the RV. I guess the question is can you have a portable in the bay for security, or is this a NO NO?
great job
I enjoyed the video. I have purchased a 50 amp Progressive EMS but haven't installed it yet. I'm trying to find a location to mount the unit. My concern is how hot does this unit get.
I normally put my Surge/EMS portable inside the electrical compartment (Class A) then run the cord to the pedestal. I did this out of concern of theft now I know there was also a benefit of doing it the way I've been doing it
I really appreciate this video. I have a 30 amp RV that came with a Hardwired EMS-HW30C RV Surge & Electrical Protector. I purchased a Progressive Industries RV Surge Protector 30 Amp with Electrical Management System, Portable, EMS-PT30X for at the pedestal. I figure that if something happens and the device gets fried its more likely to effect the portable device and I wont have to replace the hardwired device. Can you remark on pros / cons related to this strategy. I understand that it is redundant in expense and more time consuming. Thanks!
Well done!
Glad you liked it.
Great job god bless
@RVProject, do you have a preference for remotes? In other words, which remote gives you the best information: stored history, event times, real data you can use to troubleshoot...
Great video BTW, too many peeps are recommending "the best surge..." (usually portables) and they really don't fully understand their systems.
Very informative. What happens if you get a surge and you need to replace/repair the EMS? How easy is it to repair/replace a built-in model vs one at the pedestal?
You would have to open the unit and disconnect the boards, which would require a bit of soldering.
Thank you 😊
Thanks for watching.
I am new to this and would like to know is ok to use 50 amp service to a 30 amp RV with an adapter?
Thanks god bless
Do you have a link to the "Wire Calculator for AC Circuits" ?
Excellent video. Wish I’d had this advice when I had to replace my EMS 2 summers ago. I chose the portable Progressive 30A unit, mostly for convenience.
I wonder if it would be possible to fabricate a 6 AWG cord with 30A ends?
You can buy replacement connectors.
So if you are adept at that kind of thing, yes, you could fabricate such a power cord.
Thanx
Welcome
I bought the portable 50 amp southwire 34951 unit. That bad boy cost me nearly 400 bux so I hope it was worth it. Theft becomes a bigger worry.
Thank you for supporting the channel.
I was hoping to use a hardwired EMS to protect my sensitive electronics while on backup generator power... Is this the wrong device?
Have they made any hardwire ems systems that only take about 10 seconds to do there checks and then give you power yet ,the hardwire ems systems I checked in to takes about 1.5 minutes, thanks
See if there is a setting in your EMS for the turn-on time. For example, my EMS (Progressive Ind EMS-HW50C) has a jumper on the main circuit board. If the jumper is installed, the turn on delay is 15 seconds. If removed, it is set to 136 seconds.
This setting depends on your air conditioner. When power is disconnected from most air conditioners while the compressor is on, it won't restart if power is restored too soon.
The reason I believe is because of the pressure in the compressor takes time to dissipate, and the pressure is too high for the motor to restart. I am not an air conditioner expert, but I believe this is the reason.
At any rate, some air compressors have a built-in delay so this cannot happen after power is cycled off and on.
For those compressors, you can safely set the EMS delay to 15 seconds as the compressor will not come on until it's ready to.
For air compressors that do not have a built-in delay, you can set the EMS for 136 seconds before the power is reapplied to give the air conditioner time to relieve it's compressor's internal pressure.
We had to use a 30a extension cord to feed our 50a 5th wheel during an extended 12 week stay last summer. We were very careful to avoid going over 30a (only by guessing) and did not ever trip the breaker at the park box. I was mystified as to why the plug at the extension cord connection was slightly melted when breaking camp. Based on this video I surmise I must have had a low voltage condition and that led to an increase in current. Would that be possible?
A couple of observations.
A breaker or fuse rated at 30A does not trip at 30A, it allows 30A current to flow. And they are not precise items (a fuse though is more precise than a breaker).
The trip point follows something called a Time/Current profile. A typical breaker might allow up to 140% overcurrent for an hour before tripping, but will trip instantaneous at higher current rates. The trip point varies with the design and manufacturer of the breakers.
If the plug is not clean, say it has some corrosion, then effectively the plug has less surface area, which is akin to smaller AWG wire. If the rated current is allowed to pass through the plug, it will overheat, eventually melting, catching fire, etc.
These two factors combined tend to be what damages plugs.
The loss of a couple volts is not a significant enough even to change the amount of current flow. It is a measurable, but not significant factor.
Might be worth getting a plug-in 120V meter off eBay and keep it plugged in to watch for voltage drop. That's what we do. It will give you a good idea of future problem when the air conditioner kicks on.
Great 👍
Thanks for watching
Do these EMS products have problems with GFCI outlets?
I have not used one with a GFCI, but I don't think they would. A GFCI works by comparing the current on the hot side to the current on the neutral, and trips if there is a difference in those two currents.
I can see nothing that would cause that to happen in an EMS.
EMS systems however do have issues with generators and inverters. Most portable generators, such as a Honda EU2000 have a floating ground, and the EMS will fault out. There are shorting plugs available to remedy this.
And EMS systems typically have warnings against using with an inverter.
See my video "All about EMS systems" for more info: ruclips.net/video/6J2bs-Mb1cs/видео.html
also what about using s larger power cord for 30 amp? aka: not 10 gauge but use 8 gauge wire. then the best type of wire ( not “copper clad”.) only pure copper.
at what point do you measure the length of your power cord? yes one end at the power pole.
the other is where? at the power monitor device?
and then every line in the rv is not counted? or do you count up the feet to the big draw itens?
To the distribution bx. The exact length is not that critical.
At the lake I frequently camp at, I am 75 feet away from the 30A connection. Is there any reason why I cannot connect the portable EMS after the extensions but before the camper? That way, I am reading the voltage closer to the camper. Not as good as a hardwired version but still closer to the camper. Does that follow logic?
As long as you can do it safely (such as keeping the connectors dry), then anything to get the EMS closer to the RV helps.
@@RVProject would that mean they would lose 8v?
RV 25' ems, 25,25,25 shore power.
@@capodad2u about 1v loss every 13ft when using 10AWG with a 30A load.
@@RVProject so if I plug the ems into my 25 foot 30 amp and then run 75 feet to the shore power I would lose 8 volts. 8 x 13(ft) =104(ft). I just have the built in 25 ft cord and have never needed more.
For those who have hard wired protection, is there any electric condition that would damage the power cord and internal wiring between the pedestal and the hard wired protection device?
Cant think of a reason.
The circuit breaker at the pedestal will take care of any potential problems.
very informative video! I have a portable 30 AMP surge protector unit, and planning on getting a portable EMS unit this spring. Because of the 30 AMP wire gauge, to position the EMS closer to the RV, would something like Camco 55522 (18" 30 AMP Standard Male / 30 AMP 90 Degree Locking Female PowerGrip Adapter) or a DYI short cord with connectors would be a good and "safe" solution? Thanks!
I would want to make sure it is somehow waterproof. Anytime you use an unprotected connector outside, you run the risk of electric shock if it gets wet, as well as corrosion/oxidation.
If the terminals happen to become corroded/oxidized, the connector could overheat due to restricted current flow in the area of the damage.
Can a person just plug the portable EMS into the RV side of the cord, instead of the pedestal side of the cord, and solve this voltage drop problem?
You could, but on many RVs, the connectors would be different.
If I hardwire a 50 amp ems , can I plug into a 30 amp shore power?
If using a 50A to 30A dogbone... yes.
Yes. the larger wire in 50a cord means less voltage drop in the wire.
Can I just put portable on the rv side of the circuit?
If you mean at the point where the power cable exits the trailer, yes, but you would likely have to buy two adapter cords as they are usually different than the ones on the shorepower pedestal.
However, you may have waterproofing issues to consider.
Great info.
BTW, has anyone ever said you sound like a grown up Linus Van Pelt?
Not sure how to take that!!!
@@RVProject hopefully as a compliment
@@7xTHORx1 OK. Thanks.
Why not use a 50 amp cord w/ adapters with the 30 amp portable EMS? Wouldn’t this approach solve the problem?
Seems like it would if your cord is twist lock and your rig doesn’t have the 25’ hard wired cord
Why is the display flickering so much, it doesn’t look right
There is an awful lot of mouth noise (clicking) in your audio. It sounds as if you have very loose fitting dentures. You can use the de-clicker function in audacity to reduce that clicking noise and drinking lemon water before recording will also help. Coffee is the arch enemy of recording audio. Drinking coffee before recording will induce a lot of mouth noise (clicking) into your audio recording.
gramps what a ridiculous comment, this is why we don't want you older folks having access to the comment section
@@blackpepe No, "your" comment is the ridiculous comment. My comment offered constructive criticism that can only (if acted upon) serve to better this individuals audio recordings. Your asinine comment, on the other hand, offered "nothing".
I have considered am EMS and decided not to get one.
I also have a more comprehensive video on the benefits of an EMS here: ruclips.net/video/6J2bs-Mb1cs/видео.html
It provides more information about whether or not you should invest in an EMS. It covers the current National Electrical Code policy on RV park wiring, which is a contributing factor.
As well, modern RVs are full of electronics and appliances, and need additional protection.
@@RVProject I saw it. Thanks.
@@RVProject , question. What is the real percentages of an person having an issue at a campground? My 20 plus years of experience tells me it is very, very, very slim. I have had more problem here at the house years ago from my REMC till the sub station 1/4 of a mile from me was upgraded. But we had no damaged electronic equipment before the upgrade.
@@johnirwin1837 In the summer time, say on a hot 4th of July weekend with a full campground, and with everyone running their air conditioner, you can expect issues.
The National Electrical Code (Section 551) provides a method of degrading the park's power system - in other words, the assumption is that not every campsite will be full and/or demanding the full amount of power.
So say you have 50 sites with 30A power. 50 x 30A = 1,500Amps. But the NEC says the park only needs to supply 41% of the total supply (615Amps).
That works out to an average load of about 12Amps per RV for those 50 sites.
If there are a lot of pop-up campers without air conditioning, and tents, then there might not be a problem.
But many of today's RVs are power hungry and have 50A service. And when these 50A RVs are limited to 30A sites, they can take the full 30A during the high demand periods. Yes, 20yrs ago, it might not have been much of a problem, but the modern RV is fairly power-hungry.
For me, 30yrs ago I had a pop-up. Never needed any kind of EMS or surge suppression.
But my current RV has 50A service, and has 3 flat screen TVs, 2 refrigerators (inside and outside units), automatic leveler system, remote control awning and dimmer switches, solar panels, fake electric fireplace, microwave oven, satellite TV, electric/gas water heater, and many other gadgets. I don't dare hook up to electric service without some kind of EMS, as a brownout, power surge, or nearby lightning strike could cause thousands of dollars in damage.
So a lot depends on what kind of park it is, what kind of camper it tends to draw, and how popular it is on summertime weekends.
For me, I camp about 70 nights per summer, and run into brownout conditions at least 3-4 days per summer.
All in all, $300 for an EMS is cheap insurance when you consider everything RV tends to be overpriced, and a $1,000 repair bill for an appliance or air conditioning unit seems to justify the $300 expense.
Again, a lot depends on the kind of park and type of RVs at the park you go to.
If you search a few forums, you will find plenty of anecdotal evidence they serve a purpose.
@@RVProject , I am very well aware Sir. But thank you. My background is similar to yours. 21 years as an industrial electrician doing all of the planning for the wiring jobs I did for a very large egg firm. Been in campgrounds from Portland, Or. to Charleston, S.C. Upper Michigan to southern N.M. and Arizona and not one problem. In my mind it is all in how I want to pay my insurance. Have a good day.
Yea who's gonna Install it. I'm not electrician
lul ya can't hook up a few wires? ya bonehead
Great video.. As a trans queer person of color, I wish you would have spoken a little bit about trans rights. I had to downvote because of this not included in instructional.