Yeah, Penelope's history needed to be shown to us. Thru out the games, we received backstories from BOTH good and bad guys; learning why they became who they are. Penelope's story could have been explored in the 4th game, or possibly the 5th game. Since she and Bentley were dating, she could have told him about her childhood, her parents, how she became an RC pilot. From there, we'd than learn why she'd go on to betray the Cooper gang; the 4th game does (sort of) explained it, but it could have been done better. Also, the idea of Clockwork raising Penelope? I got All for One-Shigaraki vibes from this theory... Where the villian raised an poor child and molded them into their image...
Actually... yes! It hadn't even occurred to me, but YES!! We received backstories for all of the villains in Theives in Time, but the scene we got for Penelope's reveal was moreso focused on Bentley and his reaction to the whole mess. It would've actually been pretty cool if we got some additional background for her, and how she ended up being the person we meet in Sly 3.
Penelope and Clockwerk, well that would explain the chairs and computers at his lair from Sly 1 because there's definitely no way those robo falcons and lava slugs could sit down and operate those computers.
Let alone Clockwerk himself, he’s much too big to sit in those chairs either, though i could imagine Raleigh sitting in one of them. Not far fetched as he’s also a tech savvy individual.
What if its just a giant suit with life support mechanism operated by a much smaller individual? I mean, Neyla was able to control it just fine from the inside. Could always just walk out of it
As much as I'm generally sick of everything seeming to have to connect back to Clockwerk, I can kinda buy this just because Penelope's ruthless tactics and tech expertise had to come from somewhere, and Clockwerk is definitely one of the most likely people to have not only ingrained such a toxic mindset in her, but also provide a catalyst for why she'd take up such an interest in robotics in the first place. I honestly kinda hope her backstory doesn't directly involve Clockwerk, though, because I'm just so tired of feeling like literally everything has to involve him.
so yeah uhhh how come jumping into the mouth of a three ton giant eurasian eagle owl’s robo corpse, would suddenly just…..work like that?, like neyla wtf kind of witch craft did you pull to somehow fuse your entire being with a lifeless husk?! that’s highly improbable what is this Digimon? somehow fusion with inorganic lifeforms is possible?!! it would make sense if clockwerk was modified to be pilotable but, that’s apparently not what happened somehow some way neyla pulled a dragon ball z and fused with a robot corpse…… drugs must be fun huh perhaps the writers were too using that “illegal spice” that dimitri was distributing…….
honestly if penelope was involved with the creation of clockwerk she must of practiced witchcraft or voodoo or some funky magic to of made a GIANT ROBOT be able to merge biological matter into itself.
She got her tech expertise back when she was into aerial dogfighting competition. She needed a proper plane to win but couldn’t ask for help because she’s entering it illegally and can’t trust anyone to keep her secret, so she did it herself and became good at it.
Here's my thought For starters, I liked Penelope when she was introduced in Sly 3. She's funny, good and I like her relationship not only with Bentley, but also with Sly and Murray. In Thieves In Time, look the idea of Penelope's betrayal isn't a bad idea, I don't mind that. But the way they executed, it's bad and very poorly, and I think Sanzaru wanted to put a plot twist in this game, but it was executed poorly, not a bad idea, but the execution is bad. It would have been better like the mole-type character or maybe a retuning character you never thought he returned like Raleigh, he's also a smart character Now, if she's going to make a return. I think she's going to rejoin the gang. The reasons why I think at the end, when she escaped the prison, it has been hinted that she came to regret her choices and still holds feelings for Bentley and the rest of the gang. And the post-cards she send it to Bentley, I think if you connected them together as dots might reveal her location hiding place. I don't think she's gonna be an antagonist, becaue let's be real she's been defeated twice as a Baron and as a Knight, doing it a third time would be a waste for her. And let's not forget she's still a fugitive, she might be in Paris, but she can't go anywhere safely like normal people, because the cops are looking for her and maybe some bounty hunters (if there's really a one) hunting her down, she has to hide herself like homeless people in the alley or anything. As for how does she return the gang, what if there's a new fresh antagonist wanted not only Sly's and the gang's head but also Penelope's head, and she finds out it that will lead and force herself to meet Murray or Bentley warn them about this new baddie's threat, and also what if she's the key to bringing Sly back in the modern day, because she might knew what could've happened if the time machine in the blimp destroyed, and let's not forget she created it. Now I don't buy any of the Clockwerk or Dr. M. But I respect your opinion. As for how can she explain the betrayal. I think of there is, let just say somehow a villain captured Sly, Bentley and Murray. And locked them up, which Penelope has to save the gang with the help of Carmelita Fox, while they’re finding and saving the gang, she may have a conversation with Carmelita and share there understanding to each other.
Here's the things what I think the devs (whether from Sucker Punch, or anyone) would bring for Sly 5: - The story takes place after the events of Thieves In Time for the continuation of the story after the cliffhanger - There's no time travel adventure, unless the villain wants to, but it will a deja vu for Thieves In Time, the Time-Machine it will only do for saving Sly. - Introducing new characters for the first time in the series (not as villains, not even Sly's ancestors) new characters that will play supporting key role in this story, and some of them may have ongoing forward in the present and the future series. The reason why is to expand the world of thieving that Sly is living in, like does Carmelita has a friend to talk to or to hang out, or is there a person who admires Sly and gang’s works, or is there an advisor. - As as for the casting, I know it's too easy to guess/predict, and it would be a miracle for not doing it, but what if they cast Troy Baker as one of the "New Characters". Let's be honest, Troy Baker is one of the best working actor right now and no one can deny it, and also casting actors like Ashley Johnson, Daisuke Tsuji - Creating a new compelling and a promising antagonist to Sly, that the antagonist has more personal to Sly rather than Sly's family, and also the antagonist has a big twist that no one saw it coming at all, and that what made him an antagonist and why wanted to kill not just only Sly, but also killing Bentley, Murray, Penelope and Carmelita for good. - Speaking of Penelope, like I wrote before, bringing her back to the gang, cause let be honest her reasoning of her betrayal was zero sense, also making her struggle and regret for the choices she made, I do think she came to regrets of her choices. - Locations that we've never seen before like Monaco, Ireland, Denmark. Also there's Paris but a diffrent place in the city like the Notre-Dame de Paris. - Having some humanity, charismatic, sense of humor and emotional in the storytelling (for example Uncharted 4, Insomniac Games for both Spider-Man and Ratchet & Clank franchises, the lastest God Of War game)
I remember the theories after the game came out that Penelope was the one who helped Clockwerk transform his body with robotic parts. Seeing as he was was born in Ancient Egypt some kind of time travel being involved makes sense and Penlope is a robotic genius and now she hates Sly and the gang. Using her knowledge of Bentley's time machine to assist Sly's greatest enemy makes sense. I think that would make a pretty good twist personally....showing remorse and regret afterwards would be even better. I like a redeemable villain. When any of this may happen though....I have no idea
Redeemable yes, but I doubt she would help Clockwerk. Let me put it to you like this, she was willing to kill Sly for wasting Bentley’s talents, what do you think she’s going to do to the one responsible for wasting Bentley’s legs.
I still can’t believe she joined the dark side, she was a great ally in Sly Cooper 3 (PS2), she dated Bentley and now she broke his heart 💔, don’t you dislike when someone you loved betrayed you?
No one likes being betrayed. But that doesn’t mean Penelope is going to stay on the dark side. Believe it or not some relationships can be repaired even after devastating betrayals and big fights.
@@gerardorodriguez7500 probably shorter than you think when it comes to video games. Especially if the next set of antagonists forces them to put aside their differences.
It is also symbolic relevant as eagles prey on mice! Meaning clockwork took penelope in his fangs to use her genius to manifacture the hate chip and grant clockwerk the immortality he was searching for!!!!
Bentley may still have feelings for her despite the betrayal. At the ending cutscene where Bentley and Murray were looking at sly’s empty seat, Bentley was building a little plane which looks exactly like the plane he and Penelope were happily on during a reminiscing scene in the opening scene for “Of Mice and Mechs.” Of all the planes he can make why would he choose the one that reminds him of the good times with his ex-girlfriend?
@@carterharris6561 I mean sanzarro says but sucker punch is done with infamous so is they want to we’ll have a game done by the original team who made the first 3
If we see Penelope again on Sly 5 I wanted the relationship between Bentley and Penelope fixed but since Le Paradox indirectly destroyed Bentley's relationship that would take a very long time to fix.
Yeah same here, I always enjoyed both art styles from the games, when I first played the HD Trilogy on PS3, I really liked the Saturday morning cartoon/comic vibe from the first game onward and I definitely still like Sly 4's animation style as well. Things were really more expressive in 4 than the first 3 games
It's really quite sad and upsetting, seeing sweet innocent little Penelope turning into a ruthless villain. I was shocked when I first saw Penelope working for La Paradox. She was such a sweet girl, but now things are different ever since Sly 4. Though I never thought Penelope would've been raised by Clockwerek. The truth is who really made Clockwerek? Could it have been Penelope's father or someone who was a mechanic? That is why Penelope must've made the hate chip for that iron clock menace? Maybe we'll get some answers in Sly 5, if that's ever going to happen. What matters is that Penelope is a traitor. She was a nice girl, a boyfriend for Bentley, a damsel in distress, now she's a criminal and has no heart for the Cooper gang anymore. It's really upsetting still.
What happened in Thieves in Time was the worst twist ever! The best thing that a sequel after this could do is explain away the betrayal with brainwashing. Le Paradox did have access to the one who could pull it off Afterall. Hell, we see them in the same game with him!
I still wonder that what Penelope's role or plot is gonna do for her revenge on Bentley and the Cooper Gang in Sly Cooper 5 as a brand new Sly Cooper game for PlayStation 5. 🤔
To be honest i hope the next sly game is gonna be a sly 4 that overwrites thieves in time... you could fix character and fill plotholes with a sly 5, but it wont cancel how bad 4's dialogues were
@@TylerTheShepherd it doesn't matter it was still her call she could have done several different things in that situation 1. She could have said no and stayed loyal to the gang. 2. She could have faked it and warned Bentley ahead of time. 3. She could have helped us to stop him if she was kidnapped. 4. If she did join la paradox she could have had second thoughts and betray him at the last minute we would have forgiven her. You get the idea we all have choices and her choice brought me here stuck in ancient Egypt.
@@slycooper4506 do you really think LeParadox would let the opportunity of a time machine slip through his grasp if he actually gave Penelope a fair choice without any way of influencing it. Especially when he has a hypnotist at his side at the time. Ludicrous as it sounds, it is something worth investigating.
Here's a theory, what if it's reversed? Penelope knows about clockwork but what if it's Penelope that helped turn him to machine, not because she was influenced but felt that she was betrayed instead, and knowing about clockwork knew where about to start her come back, after all she is just as smart as Bently just misguided, she's even made soldiers that are types of cyborgs in sly 4, not to mention it's kinda odd that her bad guys are all Robots not one is normal at all, as for time paradoxes in sly 3 she only heard about sly's gang not much as to their skills, after sly 3 she's figured out a lot more even how much they rely on Bentley and his plans, she just didn't get their bond and started to hate sly. After some thought she could have snuck off to meet with clockwork to tinker with him a bit thus may be why clockwork's eyes were in the ice age time-line, a spooky thought with this is maybe there are more than one clockwork out there as during sly 4 we see every once in a while a variation of clockwork in the background, yes it's big but it's not the same as sly 1 or 2 almost like they are just watching and gathering data.
Actually I think Vivi did a theory on Penelope helping turn Clockwerk into machine! It’s an older theory. (If I’m wrong because I forgot, it could be a MulatoSly Theory or a collab theory.) Check out all their theories videos on Sly, it’s Awesome!!!
About those easter eggs in Sly 4 either A: Clockwerk originates from the present timeline and time travelled to 10 000BC. Or B: Mainly just an easter egg, meaning Clockwerk REALLY originates from Egypt.
@@VtnVivi b most likely, going back over 10000 years to take over 10000 years to wipe out a family line and not trying to alter your demise doesn’t really sound like the monstrous clockwerk we come to know and love.
There is no connection, this rumor started due to that Bentley imagination scene after the Penelope boss fight where he overcame basically a list of his personal demons. Clockwerk broke his legs and Penelope broke his heart. The reason Dr.M and Jean Bison never made the list was because Bentley able to beat them effortlessly without any significant damage.
That went from 1-100 real quick. Dayum. With the hiatus between the fourth and a potential fifth sequel, the game might get better writing. TIT was fine, but, I don’t know.
I, personally, NEED a sequel to Sly 4... But a prequel/spinoff of whatever cooper ancestor pissed off clockwork, or playing the level that contains the event that made clockwork hate the coopers in the first place I would be truly moist
It’s definitely interesting to think what sanzaru games was going for. Since she had a disguise for sly 3 with black baron, why not give her another one in thieves in time? That’s just my theory anyway.
There should be more reasons as to why Penelope worked for Le Paradox, disguised herself as The Black Baron, and how she escaped prison during the Sly 4 credits. I hope Penelope redeems herself in Sly 5 and I hope we dive deep into more of Penelope’s backstory in Sly 5 as well.
I like this theory and am in the minority that not only was okay with the twist of Penelope's betrayal, I loved it. I genuinely did not see it coming because it makes so much sense for her character, but I did not expect them to make the move. I wish they had committed to it more, made her the main Antagonist even, instead of Le Paradox, who is fine as a character but I think works better as a side Boss.
I don't see anything involving sly 4 as canon but favorite idea for making sly 4 not bad is if clockwork was Penelope the whole time. Having lost her love and friends to sly and still having a time machine, she went back to again to remove him from existence. Only to fail again and again. Changing her body to fly through the skys. Just like how she did when she first met her love.
I'm sorry but Sly 4 just is not cannon in my mind . It's just an awful nightmare fever dream that Bentley has and wakes up next to Penelope at 6:00 in the morning and I will never see it as anything else. I don't care that the graphics look better to be completely honest I prefer the sly 2-3 graphics better than the the 4th game. I hope one day Sucker Punch makes the true sly 4 we want and need
Love the video bro. There's many theories I read/have myself on why this betrayal could've happened and what could happen in the next/possibly final game: A. Penelope was tired of the these ideals Bentley kept having her follow, that she ultimately decided to go dark to help Le Paradox erase Sly from existence. The only problem with this theory is that with Sly gone, Bentley remains stuck at the orphanage and Penelope ends up never meeting them or knowing where to look for Bentley because she would've destroyed the original timeline. B. Penelope (while working on the vault) ran into the Clockwerk's eyes and they started to hypnotize her, slowly turning her evil. Reason for this is because in Sly 4, Clockwerk's eyes were in one of the safes in the 4th game. Possibly hinting that Sly probrably saw and kept them after the events of Sly 2 because the eyes didn't age like the rest of Clockwerk's body did, so he didnt want anyone to ever get their hands on it again. C. To continue on Part B, remember how Neyla fused with Clockwerk's body in Sly 2? So maybe Penelope's betrayal wasn't her own will, but rather Neyla still being alive in Clockwerk's eyes, and Penelope being hypnotize by Clockwork's eyes was Neyla transporting her soul into Penelope in order to get revenge on Sly and the gang. This may be a bit far fetched, but I think it would be a cool twist to see. D. Penelope escapes the prison, and goes back in time to meet with Clockwerk. She meets Clockwerk when's he's at his most bitter with the Cooper Gang, and helps him to design the robotic owl suit that helped him stay alive for centuries because of the hate chip Penelope developed. All this in hopes of ending if not Sly himself, then his family from early generations so that Sly could never be born. E. My least favorite theory, but Penelope is Clockwerk... She developed the suit and became fused into it because she got trapped in time by Sly and the gang. And for generations, she's tried to kill off the Cooper family because of what Sly did to her. I personally don't like this theory because it would throw us for a time loop, thus it would make the first two games feel illegitimate imo. F. Same thing as Part A, only difference is Penelope wanted what was best for her AND Bentley, instead of Bentley forcing P to follow Sly's ideals. G. Another theory that I personally don't like, but I can fully understand though is that Penelope was never moralist, but more so an opportunist. She always saw herself as better than others, whether it was the ACES Dogfighting Competition, the Cooper Vault job, OR the Time Traveling. The only reason she did everything was for a chance at wealth, power, and reputation, but she stayed with the gang as long as she did was because she started to fall in love with Bentley and she wanted Bentley to follow in her ideals/values too! These are just some of my thoughts along with other peoples thoughts I found interesting, but I would love to hear what everyone else thinks!
Definitely not E. Here’s why. When Penelope went back in time she had no difficulty defeating sir Gallith Cooper, twice, and very quickly. without the need of a immortal body. In fact all LeParadox members were capable of defeating a cooper ancestor with great ease thanks to time travel, even an ice skating bear came closer to wiping out the cooper clan and he was just a brute. And yet it took Clockwerk thousands of years and working with four other criminals in order to kill a cooper.
vtnvivi, sorry it's been awhile but I was formulating some new questions going forward for sly. 1: what motives will they new viallians have for opposing the copper gang?,eg: if Penelope 's new team revenge against the coupe gang, and carmalita. 2: will they have gently find a new girlfriend/partner after what happened with Penelope in Thieves in time?3:will they make like in one of you're earlier videos I believe a dark and evil person of the Cooper gang, like one who feels the gang is being held back by their moral values, like how the injustice versions of superman and Wonder Woman are portrayed In injustice gods among us , and injustice 2 also in to show how the copper gang could have been if they had no moral compass to help them.just somethings I thought about.
I have a different but related theory. What if she accidentally activated or was testing the Time Machine? Then whenever or wherever she was, pre-robot Clockwerk found her? He captured her, forced her to reveal her knowledge of her time period, then brainwashed or hypnotized her into betraying Bentley’s secrets to LeParadox? This would explain her sudden and unpredictable betrayal.
If Penelope comes back, I think it'll be to help find obviously, since she helped get him into this mess! Plus, that'll be the only way to try and repair her relationship with Bentley, which he'll be on the fence at first, but come to realize it may help, but I would like to see Carmelite's reaction to it though, since she loves him
She did build LeParadox’s time machine, she may know how to track it. Distress beacons, electronic flight log, spare time phones, or simply a tracking device. Honestly Penelope may be the best one suitable in finding sly. They can say her reason for her help was because she misses her boyfriend, which is believable given how she still sends him postcards.
One theory I think is more likely is that she was suffering from a multiple personality disorder. Her long time repression of her black Baron persona after joining the cooper gang created an “evil penelope”. If sly 5 finally happens, I wanna see penelope fight her bad persona and push her back to the depths of her mind, get rehabilitated and rejoin the cooper gang.
There is a mission where you follow the black night before the reveal and she said “ the blimps left again maybe I should build some sort of scarecrow instead “
I don't see this as really possible... Clockwerk's entire obsession was with him being greater than the Cooper Legacy. Part of that involves the ego that he could do it all himself. Why would he ever deviate from that long enough to have any sort of apprentice, let alone a daughter? And if he _did_ do that, he would've taken every opportunity to have Penelope understand why Coopers and those allied with them are the scum of the Earth... which would render her actions in Sly 3, and her reasoning in Sly 4, entirely nonsensical. The _non-Clockwerk_ parts of this make sense, but once he enters the picture it gets a bit too OOC.
I have a theory that Penelope was born and raised in a rich family. She not only was an expert pilot, mechanic, and R.C. specialist,. But she also excelled in boxing and fencing (her fight with LeFwee.) Where did she learn all those skills? In a high class education. But she grew board of her life of luxury and wanted to be a pilot, but she was too young to enter so she created her Black Barron disguise and became famous but over time her Black Barron persona took a life of it's own developing a split personality disorder. When she became Bentleys girlfriend her Black Barron persona crawled it's way back and took control.
It was a big mistake for Sanzaru to have Penelope betray the Cooper Gang. If we ever get a Sly 5, she better have a very good reason for doing what she did to Bentley.
Maybe it was poorly executed because her antagonist role would be temporary and they didn’t want to give too much detail on something that can be fixable.
@@VtnVivi The potential Sly content that could come could either be a remaster of the original games, or a Sly 5. For me, I’d like if a sly 5 was to be made. PlayStation acknowledging Sly does mean they still know and respect the franchise. I feel like there’s at least something planned for the future of the series
Expection of the leader of the klaww gang, Clockwerk and Penelope were the only two to harness their technology in battles, little detail but look at every boss battle.
I still couldn’t believe that we didn’t get any crash bandicoot announcements during the PlayStation showcase last week am I right? There were definitely a few hints and Easter eggs to wumpa league but hopefully it gets revealed soon.
I have this idea that though his body was destroyed, Clockwerk's mind/soul survived and entered cyberspace where he hid for years till he resurfaced in between Sly 3 and 4 and after finding out his body was destroyed he started looking for a way to get a new one. He discovered Penelope and by using that hate hypnosis from Sly 2, made her hate Sly and wants to destroy him, unknowingly making a weapon that would eventually becomes Clockwerk's new body. However Clockwerk knew it was going to take time to make a new body and a bit harder with Sly and the others around so Clockwerk made Penelope give Le Paradox (who also could have been brainwashed by Clockwerk) time traveling tech to distract them as he knew Sly would win. After the gang bring Sly back to the present they go confront Penelope but find out the truth and Clockwerk unhypnotizes Penelope as he doesn't need her anymore and leaves. Though the hypnosis thing is a bit cheap, at least its a way to undo making Penelope evil. We also would see another example of how far Clockwerk is willing to go to get revenge on the Coopers.
Clockwerk's mind or soul could be the brain itself, we never knew what really happened to the brain. If his eye survived, what's the likeliness of his brain surviving as well?
That theory about Clockwerk and Penelope is just as sour as the Penelope betrayal in the game. As interesting as it would be it just sounds like we’re recycling an old villain to justify another character’s actions.
Plus, it would ruin the charm, theme, and mystery on what made Clockwerk who he is. Before T.I.T. and that theory, we were under the impression that Clockwerk did all of the cyber modification to himself to hunt down the Cooper line and destroy them for good. A being who went mad on his pursuit of vengeance; that will do whatever it takes to achieve that goal... Even by cheating death and removing their humanity... So, if we go with that theory that Penelope built Clockwerk; then not only that would ruin Penelope even more, but also destroy everything on what made that mechanical, flying nightmare Clockwerk so interesting and terrifying.
@VTNVIVI I love the video and I like the idea of Penelope connection to clockwork also I like the symbolic meaning being the predatory owl hunting the mouse he probably used her
plottwist: She was only with bentley to make Sly jealous. She never fell for Bentley, she had always an eye for sly. When he ended up with Carmelita she started to work for paradox
Yes I totally see Penelope being raised by Clockwork as I would so be thrilled to see that as a plot element used by Matt Damsel and his secret team for Sly Cooper 5 Court of Thieves indeed!!!!!!!! :D :D :D :D :D Also that actually Clockwork would be actually Clockla by now after Penelope reconstructs a new body by for them. In addition to this I have a special new character that would be a misguided hero actually that would have connections to Sly and his Cooper family involving Connor, Sly Cooper and the main two members of his gang themselves. However, I don't want to indulge to much about this character as I don't know whether or not Matt Damsel would approve of such an awesome and unique character such as him actually being voiced by the Toonami guy again. Although actually sounding bad ass with his voice for this character like Vincent Valentine; where funny enough I made a break the 4 wall joke, and made my character actually have the same first name as that Final Fantasy 7 sub game's character.
time travel and robot birds. Not a bad theory in this video, but my speculation tells me that she's the one that created clockwork. I mean she's really good at pretending to be someone else.
But seriously I just hope all 6 crash bandicoot games released during the ps2 era gets HD ports on PS4 and PS5. That’s the one big announcement I’m watching for when it comes to the series now!
Hey @VTNVIVI it is your number one fan and supporter here ;D!! I loved this video soo much and like the theory of her being raised by Clockwork it does kind of seem like a possibility especially since she debuted as the Black Baron originally in Sly 3 and how tech savvy she is and Oh my god I just thought of something!! How she loves to fly you know in airplanes and has rc choppers and all of that it makes it seem like a real high possiblity that clockwork had a big hand in raising her because get this what if she loves to fly because clockwork obviously could fly and she wanted to be alot like him dang that thought gets my mind rolling for real. And one more thing I wanted to ask you if you could make a theory vide, or either a back story or just a video about the Guru if you haven't already I have looked and didn't see one. Just imagine how AWESOME it would be it he returns in Sly Cooper 5 especially with new age graphics and had learned more ways to use his moon rock staff stick and has more powers it is a real nice thought if you want to make a Guru video I know you can make any video related to Sly Cooper and they will all be interesting and amazing bro!!
Haven't seen your videos a long time, sorry for being gone so long! Btw love the new intro! Edit: answering the question. I honestly almost dismissed the idea completely until you went into further depth with clockwork raising Penelope. I feel if that actually happened and we got some sort of background story on it, this would probably be the biggest plot twist in the franchise honestly. Now thinking about it your right, we don't know much about clockwork past but only that he hates the coopers & have been hunting them for generations. But what's the motive behind it all? Why does he even hate them? How did he even get his clockwork body? I suppose these are questions I honestly forget to ask especially since the franchise died unfortunately.... But I wanna say I like where the idea of clockwork being a father and later abandoning her is going. This could simultaneously flesh out both of their characters and not only that, it would make kinda perfect sense as to why she betrayed the gang in sly 4. Lastly I'd like to say and think, a lot of people feel clockwork was probably the greatest villain in this franchise. He had everything about him that you could want in a villain, so Penelope rebuilding him and even going as far as changing his appearance would honestly be a good way to bring him back. Or take inspiration from the events of Sly 2 with what happened with Neela. Being instead of reviving clockwork, Penelope will instead become the next clockwork, continuing the long legacy of hate. She will probably succeed where her father failed, by killing sly. The gang will later learn about the terrible news and team up to stop and defeat Penelope. She made a great villain as the black Baron so she already fits the evil villain role & with her smarts she could probably start her own powerful evil corporation, making people into machines and filling them with the very same hate chip that she & clockwork lives off of. It will corrupt the world turning everyone and everything into pure hatred. The gang realizing that this is bigger than they can handle will try and gather help, going as far as reforming whoever left from the gang of Sly 3 and time traveling to gather coopers for help. Then finally a showdown will happen....... Yes..... For the sake of good vs hate. Peace vs war. Justice vs damnation. Everything the coopers & the gang stood for will be on the line here...... The final showdown will begin, in...... SLY COOPER 5: MASTER OF THEIVES Ok so it was like 4 in the morning when I made this. I know I got off track throwing in my own mumble jumble but good video as always! Lol 😂
I actually do think it was a neat idea to have someone who was once close to the Cooper gang now become their enemy. I just wish we got to see a bit more of the transition of her from new Copper gang member and Bentley's new girlfriend to La Paradox's underling.
By the way, I think you should make a video, diving deep into the lore of Gadgetron, Megacorp and GrummelNet. There's so much mystery that surrounds them, and I always found them interesting in the series, especially how Ratchet interacted with them. The big plus was having both Gadgetron and Megacorp weapons in UYR and then moving on to a greater corporation, with better weapons and armor, GrummelNet. The corporations from the Classic to Future series are really cool, I always wondered how Gadgetron failed in the Bogon galaxy on planet Barlow?
I freaked out the first time I saw that Black Knight is Penelope but after seeing this part and defeating Penelope I wanted to kill Le Paradox so badly like my levels to kill Le Paradox went through the roof like 700%. Sly Cooper 4 Thieves in Time the ending is so depressing because it felt like you didn't accomplish anything, sure you defeated Le Paradox and recovered all the ancestor's canes but Sly's stuck in Ancient Egypt and the damage Le Paradox has done to Bentley was so severe because he indirectly destroyed Bentley's relationship with Penelope.
Vtnvivi, this also reminds me of a quote “when you look at the dark side, careful you must be for the dark side looks back” Yoda. P.S. found this quote on google when searching for another. Thought this one sounded better, also I am a big star wars fan. 😇👿❤️🖤
@@JediOttselWaluigikid115 getting Sly out of Egypt could be a good start. As she was the one who built LeParadox’s time traveling blimp she may know how to locate it.
@@TylerTheShepherd I agree, and perhaps Penelope could apologize to Sly and the gang. And if Bentley is ready they could rekindle their old flame. P.S. sorry it took me a long time to comment I had to think of what to say. 😢❤️🔥
@@JediOttselWaluigikid115 actually Bentley may still have feelings for her. I don’t think you noticed it but during the ending cutscene after the LeParadox boss fight, when Bentley and Murray were looking at the empty chair in the middle Bentley was building a model plane that looks exactly like the plane he and Penelope were happily on as seen in another photo shown at the beginning of the game. Think about it. Of all the planes he could make why build one that reminds him of the good times he had with Penelope.
Does Penelope even know she was a traitor? When Bentley asked if she sold out for money, her response was “No, your not listening. He’s just a means to an end.” I can understand that she has a bad side that she kept under wraps, but Is it possible that she had no idea of LeParadox’s true intentions and was deceived just like the others. He kept the illusion of a law bidding citizen up until now that even Carmalita was shocked to find out about (the Wild West level).
She should have known of his true intentions, after all she stole Sir Galleth's cane for Le Paradox. I think Penelope simply used poor justification when explaining the situation to Bentley.
@@VtnVivi Actually, after she explained it Bentley said “Wow and I thought you were smart.” He thought Penelope was smart enough to realize LeParadox’s true intentions but apparently she didn’t. Of course, when someone is angry about something, it’s easy for others to manipulate them.
@@VtnVivi but Penelope never actually went after sir Galleth, he came to her. LeParadox, who wanted her time machine, could have initially came to Penelope to offer her her own workshop so she can give Bentley a visual demonstration of what they can do. Sir Galleth, who has a charge first without thinking attitude, would end up getting caught while trying to liberate the land Penelope conquered when she in her mind was just defending her property. Once caught LeParadox could ask Penelope for the cane saying it would be worth a lot as a historical artifact. In other words, what if Penelope was just in the wrong place at the wrong time thanks to LeParadox’s cunning.
@@VtnVivi funny you should say that she should have known about LeParadox’s intentions because I just looked up part of his name, paradox, on a whim and found that it means contradiction and a statement or proposition that despite sounding reasonable from an acceptable premise leads to a conclusion that seems senseless and logically unacceptable. And LeParadox is a character that makes deals that sound good at first but ends up in a conclusion that they made a horrible choice in accepting it. It’s like the name itself is describing the characters’ methods.
@@VtnVivileparadox could have fooled her into getting his cane as some loyalty test. Simply have one of his men accuse her of joining his team as a means to get a cooper member on the inside for some future heist, put her on the spot and offer a solution to prove herself.
I think in Sly Cooper 5 that Penelope takes her revenge on Sly & the Gang by bring back Clockwork and I do think in the fifth game that I think Clockwork may bring back all of the enemy that sly fought in the past
Sly 3 Penelope: No mentions of being hypnotized, a traitor OR influenced by Clockwerk's evil ways (Because the owl's dead), only became the Black Baron to enter the ACES plane competitions and has shown gratitude TWICE when she was saved by Sly and Bentley. Thieves in Time Penelope: Turns her back on and betrays the Cooper Gang with the mentality of "Sly's using everyone for his own gain!", wants to make weapons for money (Even though the gang DID get the money in Sly 3) and ended up working for Le Paradox for a while for who knows why! Sorry, but I just don't believe that Penelope would be the kind of character who would instantly side with the enemies, good reason or not. She has SO much potential as a playable character, but Sanaru Writers decides "Welp! We're just gonna make her a villain to cause more drama in the game! Carmelita sh*t talking Sly because he gave up a life of crime to be with her isn't enough!". Seriously, Penelope being a playable character would be GREAT! Especially since we only played as Panda King, Dimitri AND The Guru in Sly 3! Penelope's the ONLY character who NEVER got to be playable, not counting her RC car and helicopter/plane missions! Also, not only did we NOT get a background on Penelope, but Neyla NEVER got a background either! "Well she made a Homework Ring by having other students do HER schoolwork and she was caught by the cops, but they saw potential in her and had her start training as a constable." THAT'S not a decent background! Just like Penelope, Neyla's background history is a HUGE mystery! What made her decide to join the Klaww Gang and work as a protege for Arpeggio in the first place? Did she REALLY wanted to be ClockLa? How did she even find out about ClockWerk and how he functioned for many years? WHY would she want to live as a giant owl with immortal life? Why betray both the Cooper Gang, Interpol AND Carmelita if her life was pretty much alright? What we do know about both Penelope and Neyla is this: They both lacked any decent backgrounds from when they were kids, had no potential as villains, no real reasons to BE villains and the excuses for why they became villains is pure trash. At least with Neyla, she became a villain in the same game and not in the next one. She planned and waited until she had a good chance to claim her ClockWerk parts, betrayed Sly and Carmelita and even waited until she was able to get rid of Arpeggio and take ClockWerk's body for herself. (How she and/or Arpeggio would even MANAGE to fuse with ClockWerk's frame by just jumping in wouldn't make sense if they jumped in as is. How did that work anyways?) With Penelope, what excuse did she have to BE a bad guy? The "Father/Daughter Dynamic" would work, 5 - 12% plausible, but I just don't see that. In fact, I don't see her as a villain overall, at all. The reasons for that, as the guy here mentioned, is this: How long time passed between Sly 3 and TiT were never brought up, "Because money talks" excuse is poor and there were going to be TWO additional villain characters involved. Also, Penelope's potential as a member of the Cooper Gang is WAY better than her potential as a villain. Like, what would she gain as a villain? Money? That's about it. But yeah, seeing how the story wasn't working in TiT, that's another reason why the game wasn't as successful as the Sly Cooper Trilogy.
Also Vivi it might not be exactly amazing but the best crossover movie Scooby Doo meets courage the cowardly dog straight outta nowhere was honestly a really fun time I thought. I highly recommend it okay?
Personally I think Penelope is clockwerk. I mean think about it. Neyla has shown that anyone can convert to that owl suit. Penelope has now hatred towards Coopers, Because Bentley is obsessing so much in watching over Slys legacy, that he is throwing away his potential in being her partner. That's already a reason for her to dislike the Cooper lineage and she contributed already once in trying to erase the cooper lineage and ridiculing one of his ancestors. She's also the second to know how to build a time machine to send herself all the way back in time where such technology shouldn't exist like a owl suit, to haunt Slys ancestors and has the ability to build the suit and hate chip. Its also implied that the metallic owl parts are affected by some kind of time altering as they fade away once the chip is destroyed by Carmelita, conveniently before Penelope is introduced in the 3rd game.. It also wouldn't be a problem for her to alter her voice. And who else would be better than her to have especially a grudge against Sly by trying to ruin his life after he is born?
But it doesn’t explain how she could fail to lose to Sir Galleth Cooper as Clockwerk when she already showed that she can easily beat him while stationary and no flight capability, twice in fact.
Well if supposedly say your theory is right and Penelope is clockwerks daughter then why didn't she team with constable neyla to help revive clockwerk or turn against neyla and arrepengio
Assuming she had the brain right from the start, she had no interest. Remember, she took the Black Baron persona for some time. You bring up an interesting question!
Is it possible Clockwerk was a part of Slytunkamen gang or royal quart (I forgot if Slytunkamen was an actual Pharoah) The whole playing second fiddle thing seems to be very cyclical Dr. M couldn't have been the first to have thought that. Especially considering it seems as though Sly's ancestors had their own gangs too. I'm not to sure about Clockwerk being a surrogate father to Penelope but your point about her overhearing Bently and Murray's conversation in the vault makes a good start for her decline into evil especially since she did seem to care for Bentley enough to try and get him on the top with his inventions. It is possible that she may be trying to reconstruct Clockwerk as her new plan to get rid of Sly. The reason I think this is because of the cameos in Thieves in Time. Every time period he is still robotic even in the Ice Age which is long before ancient Egypt. It might be that Penelope in the future presented Clockwerk with the time machine and because of that we see him all over the place but he doesn't intervene because he is smart enough to know not to intervene with the past lest a Paradox erase him. It's an interesting thought all things considered
I personally believe that Penelope has a point in what she's trying to do especially when she says to Bentley that it's too late for him to not be called a bad guy the Cooper gang has done very questionable things some of which end in people's deaths there's certain things I can't agree with Penelope however majority of it I agree with her
I dunno I always felt Like maybe with penelope’s strengths in robotics and her time travel and new hatred towards sly maybe she instead was the creator of clockwork, atleast his robotic form
But seriously Vivi the new spongebob announcement earlier this morning. It just looks incredible I think! Cosmic wonder I think it’s called? The nostalgic hits so hard! do you agree too?
It's an interesting theory, but even then I can't imagine wanting to betray people who would gladly be your friends and family. No, it was Sanzaru's weak attempt to get rid of a second female protagonist.
That and trying (And failing at that too) to recreate a Neyla betrayal moment. Problem is that Penelope doesn't have that same effect as Neyla and her "brilliant idea" on why Pene betray the gang falls flat. Also to add: It was nice to have another female member to be on the Coopers' side, unlike going up against some of the female rouge gallery. Penelope ain't a saint, that's for certain, but to make her become another Mustache-twirling, Saturday-Morning, Generic Cartoon villainess that needs to be beaten to move on the story is just disheartening.
The only thing that makes logical sense in my head is that she wanted to see Bentley put his focus toward bettering the world instead of pouring everything into the Cooper Gang, especially after they'd effectively disbanded, and in trying to find a positive cause to dedicate their brain power to, she ends up working under Le Paradox, who she initially believed to be a benevolent person. She starts to figure out he isn't what he seems, but instead of leaving, she decides to trick him into giving her a position that would allow her access to his true plans/intentions. She intends to send all of what she learned to Bentley, but Le Paradox finds out before she can do anything, and instead of killing her, he has Miss Decibel (or maybe The Contessa if he has contact with her) rework her thoughts in such a way that any negative thing she's ever thought about the Cooper Gang is now at the forefront of her mind. If this is the case, I like to believe that the defeat of Miss Decibel and Le Paradox breaks whatever conditioning was forced on her (or that Miss Decibel reverses it herself) and she's trying to make up for what she did while she was under that powerful influence.
@@VtnVivi Sanzaru could at least made a comic that builds up to Thieves in Time like the pervious games. So that way, we can see a couple of things: * Sly and Carmelita relationship was like. * Sly being a member of INTERPOL. * Sly remembering the good ol' days when he was thief and missing his pals/brothers. * Bentley and Penelope relationship was like. * What cause Penelope to disappear. * Murray being in a demolition derby. * So much more. Plus, I'm going with this idea to fix the damage that has been done: Penelope is/was brainwashed. Cliché, yes... But than again, Sanzaru added other Time Traveling Clichés when they made T.I.T. It also would answer this question on why didn't Penelope stabbed Le Paradox in the back as well?
@@AzariahMarinaStarcaster This is something I thought about too, when these theories came up about Penelope, that's basically the most possible conclusion in this whole case. 1 She was trick by La Paradox, makes sense since Carmelite was fooled a bit too in her story. 2 She was brainwashed by Miss Decibel, but it was broken via her defeat or show a flashback of Miss Decibel and Penelope being locked up in the same prison, and since Miss Decibel was willingly reforming and trying to correct her mistakes, show her breaking her control completely off of her. I don't know, tricked, brainwashed or not, just wanted to do it, I don't know, just gotta give a proper explanation to her betrayal in Sly 5.
vtnvivi I had hypothetical question for you , some new questions also.1:what if a reverse of episode 3 in sly 2 had happened instead where instead of Neyla betraying the cooper gang it had been instead carmalita, the example the promoted this what if is the sly Cooper fanfic story Neyla eavesrdropping ,here if I believe correctly its carmalita who takes the place of Neyla as the main hidden antagonist of this fanfic. 2: how did general taso use black magic to battle sly in the second part of their battle?.3:who will Penelope receipt possibly to try and defeat sly in sly 5 when and if happens?.4:where did taso get his shield?.
1. I think the community would've gotten really sad if the sotry had gone in that direction. Remember, Carmelita appeared in the first game prior, it would almost feel like Penelope's betrayal in Sly 4. 2. Interesting question! Seeing as how Sly fought Tsao on his ancestors' sacred ground, it's possible black magic was passed down onto him. 3. Not sure I understand the question. 4. I take it was passed down or forged by request.
@@VtnVivi sorry for the confusion for that third question what I was asking you for that one was who will Penelope recruit to try and get rid of sly before bently, camralita ,and Murray try and rescue him.
@@kelleninouye4815 Seeing as how she easily escaped from jail, I could imagine her breaking out old enemies out of prison. The likes of Sir Raleigh let's say.
Yeah, Penelope's history needed to be shown to us. Thru out the games, we received backstories from BOTH good and bad guys; learning why they became who they are. Penelope's story could have been explored in the 4th game, or possibly the 5th game. Since she and Bentley were dating, she could have told him about her childhood, her parents, how she became an RC pilot.
From there, we'd than learn why she'd go on to betray the Cooper gang; the 4th game does (sort of) explained it, but it could have been done better.
Also, the idea of Clockwork raising Penelope? I got All for One-Shigaraki vibes from this theory...
Where the villian raised an poor child and molded them into their image...
Actually... yes! It hadn't even occurred to me, but YES!! We received backstories for all of the villains in Theives in Time, but the scene we got for Penelope's reveal was moreso focused on Bentley and his reaction to the whole mess. It would've actually been pretty cool if we got some additional background for her, and how she ended up being the person we meet in Sly 3.
I really had no idea Bentley had a home inside his shell. Didn’t think there’d be enough room lol
Heheh same!
Penelope and Clockwerk, well that would explain the chairs and computers at his lair from Sly 1 because there's definitely no way those robo falcons and lava slugs could sit down and operate those computers.
Let alone Clockwerk himself, he’s much too big to sit in those chairs either, though i could imagine Raleigh sitting in one of them. Not far fetched as he’s also a tech savvy individual.
What if its just a giant suit with life support mechanism operated by a much smaller individual? I mean, Neyla was able to control it just fine from the inside. Could always just walk out of it
@@tendollah156 not likely, if she was able to get out she would have done it before the hate chip was destroyed.
As much as I'm generally sick of everything seeming to have to connect back to Clockwerk, I can kinda buy this just because Penelope's ruthless tactics and tech expertise had to come from somewhere, and Clockwerk is definitely one of the most likely people to have not only ingrained such a toxic mindset in her, but also provide a catalyst for why she'd take up such an interest in robotics in the first place. I honestly kinda hope her backstory doesn't directly involve Clockwerk, though, because I'm just so tired of feeling like literally everything has to involve him.
I mean if you're referring to Clock-La, that technically wasn't really Clockwerk. I personally feel we could use some more Clockwerk.
@@VtnVivi I actually wasn't thinking about Clock-la at all when I wrote this. XD
so yeah uhhh how come jumping into the mouth of a three ton giant eurasian eagle owl’s robo corpse, would suddenly just…..work like that?, like neyla wtf kind of witch craft did you pull to somehow fuse your entire being with a lifeless husk?! that’s highly improbable what is this Digimon? somehow fusion with inorganic lifeforms is possible?!! it would make sense if clockwerk was modified to be pilotable but, that’s apparently not what happened somehow some way neyla pulled a dragon ball z and fused with a robot corpse…… drugs must be fun huh perhaps the writers were too using that “illegal spice” that dimitri was distributing…….
honestly if penelope was involved with the creation of clockwerk she must of practiced witchcraft or voodoo or some funky magic to of made a GIANT ROBOT be able to merge biological matter into itself.
She got her tech expertise back when she was into aerial dogfighting competition. She needed a proper plane to win but couldn’t ask for help because she’s entering it illegally and can’t trust anyone to keep her secret, so she did it herself and became good at it.
Here's my thought
For starters, I liked Penelope when she was introduced in Sly 3. She's funny, good and I like her relationship not only with Bentley, but also with Sly and Murray.
In Thieves In Time, look the idea of Penelope's betrayal isn't a bad idea, I don't mind that. But the way they executed, it's bad and very poorly, and I think Sanzaru wanted to put a plot twist in this game, but it was executed poorly, not a bad idea, but the execution is bad. It would have been better like the mole-type character or maybe a retuning character you never thought he returned like Raleigh, he's also a smart character
Now, if she's going to make a return. I think she's going to rejoin the gang.
The reasons why I think at the end, when she escaped the prison, it has been hinted that she came to regret her choices and still holds feelings for Bentley and the rest of the gang. And the post-cards she send it to Bentley, I think if you connected them together as dots might reveal her location hiding place. I don't think she's gonna be an antagonist, becaue let's be real she's been defeated twice as a Baron and as a Knight, doing it a third time would be a waste for her. And let's not forget she's still a fugitive, she might be in Paris, but she can't go anywhere safely like normal people, because the cops are looking for her and maybe some bounty hunters (if there's really a one) hunting her down, she has to hide herself like homeless people in the alley or anything. As for how does she return the gang, what if there's a new fresh antagonist wanted not only Sly's and the gang's head but also Penelope's head, and she finds out it that will lead and force herself to meet Murray or Bentley warn them about this new baddie's threat, and also what if she's the key to bringing Sly back in the modern day, because she might knew what could've happened if the time machine in the blimp destroyed, and let's not forget she created it.
Now I don't buy any of the Clockwerk or Dr. M. But I respect your opinion.
As for how can she explain the betrayal. I think of there is, let just say somehow a villain captured Sly, Bentley and Murray. And locked them up, which Penelope has to save the gang with the help of Carmelita Fox, while they’re finding and saving the gang, she may have a conversation with Carmelita and share there understanding to each other.
I agree the execution was bad. I'm all up for redemption arc as you pointed out, just hope the writing team nails it.
Here's the things what I think the devs (whether from Sucker Punch, or anyone) would bring for Sly 5:
- The story takes place after the events of Thieves In Time for the continuation of the story after the cliffhanger
- There's no time travel adventure, unless the villain wants to, but it will a deja vu for Thieves In Time, the Time-Machine it will only do for saving Sly.
- Introducing new characters for the first time in the series (not as villains, not even Sly's ancestors) new characters that will play supporting key role in this story, and some of them may have ongoing forward in the present and the future series. The reason why is to expand the world of thieving that Sly is living in, like does Carmelita has a friend to talk to or to hang out, or is there a person who admires Sly and gang’s works, or is there an advisor.
- As as for the casting, I know it's too easy to guess/predict, and it would be a miracle for not doing it, but what if they cast Troy Baker as one of the "New Characters". Let's be honest, Troy Baker is one of the best working actor right now and no one can deny it, and also casting actors like Ashley Johnson, Daisuke Tsuji
- Creating a new compelling and a promising antagonist to Sly, that the antagonist has more personal to Sly rather than Sly's family, and also the antagonist has a big twist that no one saw it coming at all, and that what made him an antagonist and why wanted to kill not just only Sly, but also killing Bentley, Murray, Penelope and Carmelita for good.
- Speaking of Penelope, like I wrote before, bringing her back to the gang, cause let be honest her reasoning of her betrayal was zero sense, also making her struggle and regret for the choices she made, I do think she came to regrets of her choices.
- Locations that we've never seen before like Monaco, Ireland, Denmark. Also there's Paris but a diffrent place in the city like the Notre-Dame de Paris.
- Having some humanity, charismatic, sense of humor and emotional in the storytelling (for example Uncharted 4, Insomniac Games for both Spider-Man and Ratchet & Clank franchises, the lastest God Of War game)
How about the theory that Le Paradox had Penelope brainwashed by Miss Decibel.
I remember the theories after the game came out that Penelope was the one who helped Clockwerk transform his body with robotic parts. Seeing as he was was born in Ancient Egypt some kind of time travel being involved makes sense and Penlope is a robotic genius and now she hates Sly and the gang. Using her knowledge of Bentley's time machine to assist Sly's greatest enemy makes sense. I think that would make a pretty good twist personally....showing remorse and regret afterwards would be even better. I like a redeemable villain.
When any of this may happen though....I have no idea
Redeemable yes, but I doubt she would help Clockwerk. Let me put it to you like this, she was willing to kill Sly for wasting Bentley’s talents, what do you think she’s going to do to the one responsible for wasting Bentley’s legs.
@@TylerTheShepherd I'm not sure if Penelope is aware of how Bentley became disabled now I think about it.
I still can’t believe she joined the dark side, she was a great ally in Sly Cooper 3 (PS2), she dated Bentley and now she broke his heart 💔, don’t you dislike when someone you loved betrayed you?
No one likes being betrayed. But that doesn’t mean Penelope is going to stay on the dark side. Believe it or not some relationships can be repaired even after devastating betrayals and big fights.
@@TylerTheShepherd you think she’ll rejoin the light side with Sly and his friends and repair her relationship with Bentley?
@@gerardorodriguez7500 it is a possibility that can happen. Not easy, but possible.
@@TylerTheShepherd I know it takes time for someone to forgive
@@gerardorodriguez7500 probably shorter than you think when it comes to video games. Especially if the next set of antagonists forces them to put aside their differences.
It is also symbolic relevant as eagles prey on mice! Meaning clockwork took penelope in his fangs to use her genius to manifacture the hate chip and grant clockwerk the immortality he was searching for!!!!
Oooo symbolism!
Bentley may still have feelings for her despite the betrayal. At the ending cutscene where Bentley and Murray were looking at sly’s empty seat, Bentley was building a little plane which looks exactly like the plane he and Penelope were happily on during a reminiscing scene in the opening scene for “Of Mice and Mechs.” Of all the planes he can make why would he choose the one that reminds him of the good times with his ex-girlfriend?
Vivi likes Kiwis. noted
Indeed
I love kiwi 🥝😳
@@VtnVivi hi
@@jazratchetclank2766 Hi
@@VtnVivi how are you doing today?
I hope we do see Penelope again in the next Sly Cooper on PS5
will there be a new sly cooper?
@@carterharris6561 to be honest I don’t know
@@carterharris6561 I mean sanzarro says but sucker punch is done with infamous so is they want to we’ll have a game done by the original team who made the first 3
@@carterharris6561 I hope it would be a great opportunity for Sky Cooper to return on PS5
If we see Penelope again on Sly 5 I wanted the relationship between Bentley and Penelope fixed but since Le Paradox indirectly destroyed Bentley's relationship that would take a very long time to fix.
Yeah same here, I always enjoyed both art styles from the games, when I first played the HD Trilogy on PS3, I really liked the Saturday morning cartoon/comic vibe from the first game onward and I definitely still like Sly 4's animation style as well.
Things were really more expressive in 4 than the first 3 games
It's really quite sad and upsetting, seeing sweet innocent little Penelope turning into a ruthless villain. I was shocked when I first saw Penelope working for La Paradox. She was such a sweet girl, but now things are different ever since Sly 4. Though I never thought Penelope would've been raised by Clockwerek. The truth is who really made Clockwerek? Could it have been Penelope's father or someone who was a mechanic? That is why Penelope must've made the hate chip for that iron clock menace? Maybe we'll get some answers in Sly 5, if that's ever going to happen. What matters is that Penelope is a traitor. She was a nice girl, a boyfriend for Bentley, a damsel in distress, now she's a criminal and has no heart for the Cooper gang anymore. It's really upsetting still.
Yeah, just WHO built Clockwerk?
@@VtnVivi I don't know. But maybe we'll find out eventually in the next game. If that ever happens.
I hated Sanzaru for ruining the character.
What happened in Thieves in Time was the worst twist ever! The best thing that a sequel after this could do is explain away the betrayal with brainwashing. Le Paradox did have access to the one who could pull it off Afterall. Hell, we see them in the same game with him!
I still wonder that what Penelope's role or plot is gonna do for her revenge on Bentley and the Cooper Gang in Sly Cooper 5 as a brand new Sly Cooper game for PlayStation 5. 🤔
To be honest i hope the next sly game is gonna be a sly 4 that overwrites thieves in time... you could fix character and fill plotholes with a sly 5, but it wont cancel how bad 4's dialogues were
If she’s getting revenge that is. They only said that she escaped from prison not what she’s going to do.
I still haven't forgiven her for what she's done if she didn't betray us I wouldn't be in this mess right now. 😓
@Rodolfo Ramos What?
Yeah but wasn’t that mostly LeParadox’s fault. You saw how devious and manipulative he was.
@@TylerTheShepherd it doesn't matter it was still her call she could have done several different things in that situation
1. She could have said no and stayed loyal to the gang.
2. She could have faked it and warned Bentley ahead of time.
3. She could have helped us to stop him if she was kidnapped.
4. If she did join la paradox she could have had second thoughts and betray him at the last minute we would have forgiven her.
You get the idea we all have choices and her choice brought me here stuck in ancient Egypt.
@@TylerTheShepherd I didn't want her to betray us I saw her as a member of my family but I was wrong.
@@slycooper4506 do you really think LeParadox would let the opportunity of a time machine slip through his grasp if he actually gave Penelope a fair choice without any way of influencing it. Especially when he has a hypnotist at his side at the time. Ludicrous as it sounds, it is something worth investigating.
Here's a theory, what if it's reversed? Penelope knows about clockwork but what if it's Penelope that helped turn him to machine, not because she was influenced but felt that she was betrayed instead, and knowing about clockwork knew where about to start her come back, after all she is just as smart as Bently just misguided, she's even made soldiers that are types of cyborgs in sly 4, not to mention it's kinda odd that her bad guys are all Robots not one is normal at all, as for time paradoxes in sly 3 she only heard about sly's gang not much as to their skills, after sly 3 she's figured out a lot more even how much they rely on Bentley and his plans, she just didn't get their bond and started to hate sly. After some thought she could have snuck off to meet with clockwork to tinker with him a bit thus may be why clockwork's eyes were in the ice age time-line, a spooky thought with this is maybe there are more than one clockwork out there as during sly 4 we see every once in a while a variation of clockwork in the background, yes it's big but it's not the same as sly 1 or 2 almost like they are just watching and gathering data.
Actually I think Vivi did a theory on Penelope helping turn Clockwerk into machine! It’s an older theory. (If I’m wrong because I forgot, it could be a MulatoSly Theory or a collab theory.) Check out all their theories videos on Sly, it’s Awesome!!!
About those easter eggs in Sly 4 either A: Clockwerk originates from the present timeline and time travelled to 10 000BC. Or B: Mainly just an easter egg, meaning Clockwerk REALLY originates from Egypt.
@@VtnVivi b most likely, going back over 10000 years to take over 10000 years to wipe out a family line and not trying to alter your demise doesn’t really sound like the monstrous clockwerk we come to know and love.
You know I always wondered if there was some sort of connection with Penelope and clockwork. I hope this gets explored into a future game.
We’ll never know but it’s definitely one of the biggest and craziest theories we’ve all been trying to figure out for years now!
There is no connection, this rumor started due to that Bentley imagination scene after the Penelope boss fight where he overcame basically a list of his personal demons. Clockwerk broke his legs and Penelope broke his heart. The reason Dr.M and Jean Bison never made the list was because Bentley able to beat them effortlessly without any significant damage.
That went from 1-100 real quick. Dayum. With the hiatus between the fourth and a potential fifth sequel, the game might get better writing. TIT was fine, but, I don’t know.
I, personally, NEED a sequel to Sly 4... But a prequel/spinoff of whatever cooper ancestor pissed off clockwork, or playing the level that contains the event that made clockwork hate the coopers in the first place I would be truly moist
Another Penelope theory, that'll hopefully be answered in the 5th game
I do not picture Penelope being raised by clockwerck.
It’s definitely interesting to think what sanzaru games was going for. Since she had a disguise for sly 3 with black baron, why not give her another one in thieves in time? That’s just my theory anyway.
Holy smoke, this has to be one of your best theories! If this actually happened, that will be amazing plot twist.
Glad you enjoyed it thank you!!!
There should be more reasons as to why Penelope worked for Le Paradox, disguised herself as The Black Baron, and how she escaped prison during the Sly 4 credits.
I hope Penelope redeems herself in Sly 5 and I hope we dive deep into more of Penelope’s backstory in Sly 5 as well.
Hopefully
I think we should settle for just her redeeming herself.
Yeah I hope we get flashbacks of some sort. Heck, have Penelope narrate those flashbacks.
@@VtnVivi Ironically, like what happens in comics some times,
I like this theory and am in the minority that not only was okay with the twist of Penelope's betrayal, I loved it. I genuinely did not see it coming because it makes so much sense for her character, but I did not expect them to make the move. I wish they had committed to it more, made her the main Antagonist even, instead of Le Paradox, who is fine as a character but I think works better as a side Boss.
Delivery could've been better in Sly 4 that's for sure!
I don't see anything involving sly 4 as canon but favorite idea for making sly 4 not bad is if clockwork was Penelope the whole time. Having lost her love and friends to sly and still having a time machine, she went back to again to remove him from existence. Only to fail again and again. Changing her body to fly through the skys. Just like how she did when she first met her love.
I'm sorry but Sly 4 just is not cannon in my mind . It's just an awful nightmare fever dream that Bentley has and wakes up next to Penelope at 6:00 in the morning and I will never see it as anything else. I don't care that the graphics look better to be completely honest I prefer the sly 2-3 graphics better than the the 4th game. I hope one day Sucker Punch makes the true sly 4 we want and need
Love the video bro. There's many theories I read/have myself on why this betrayal could've happened and what could happen in the next/possibly final game:
A. Penelope was tired of the these ideals Bentley kept having her follow, that she ultimately decided to go dark to help Le Paradox erase Sly from existence. The only problem with this theory is that with Sly gone, Bentley remains stuck at the orphanage and Penelope ends up never meeting them or knowing where to look for Bentley because she would've destroyed the original timeline.
B. Penelope (while working on the vault) ran into the Clockwerk's eyes and they started to hypnotize her, slowly turning her evil. Reason for this is because in Sly 4, Clockwerk's eyes were in one of the safes in the 4th game. Possibly hinting that Sly probrably saw and kept them after the events of Sly 2 because the eyes didn't age like the rest of Clockwerk's body did, so he didnt want anyone to ever get their hands on it again.
C. To continue on Part B, remember how Neyla fused with Clockwerk's body in Sly 2? So maybe Penelope's betrayal wasn't her own will, but rather Neyla still being alive in Clockwerk's eyes, and Penelope being hypnotize by Clockwork's eyes was Neyla transporting her soul into Penelope in order to get revenge on Sly and the gang. This may be a bit far fetched, but I think it would be a cool twist to see.
D. Penelope escapes the prison, and goes back in time to meet with Clockwerk. She meets Clockwerk when's he's at his most bitter with the Cooper Gang, and helps him to design the robotic owl suit that helped him stay alive for centuries because of the hate chip Penelope developed. All this in hopes of ending if not Sly himself, then his family from early generations so that Sly could never be born.
E. My least favorite theory, but Penelope is Clockwerk... She developed the suit and became fused into it because she got trapped in time by Sly and the gang. And for generations, she's tried to kill off the Cooper family because of what Sly did to her. I personally don't like this theory because it would throw us for a time loop, thus it would make the first two games feel illegitimate imo.
F. Same thing as Part A, only difference is Penelope wanted what was best for her AND Bentley, instead of Bentley forcing P to follow Sly's ideals.
G. Another theory that I personally don't like, but I can fully understand though is that Penelope was never moralist, but more so an opportunist. She always saw herself as better than others, whether it was the ACES Dogfighting Competition, the Cooper Vault job, OR the Time Traveling. The only reason she did everything was for a chance at wealth, power, and reputation, but she stayed with the gang as long as she did was because she started to fall in love with Bentley and she wanted Bentley to follow in her ideals/values too!
These are just some of my thoughts along with other peoples thoughts I found interesting, but I would love to hear what everyone else thinks!
Definitely not E. Here’s why. When Penelope went back in time she had no difficulty defeating sir Gallith Cooper, twice, and very quickly. without the need of a immortal body. In fact all LeParadox members were capable of defeating a cooper ancestor with great ease thanks to time travel, even an ice skating bear came closer to wiping out the cooper clan and he was just a brute. And yet it took Clockwerk thousands of years and working with four other criminals in order to kill a cooper.
I have a theory, Arpeggio being brought back by the Clockwerk brain or his spirit being inside of it.
Vivi out here giving brilliant Sly 5 ideas for free
If I had the coding skills and time I swear I would try making something out of this
Too kind :P
vtnvivi, sorry it's been awhile but I was formulating some new questions going forward for sly. 1: what motives will they new viallians have for opposing the copper gang?,eg: if Penelope 's new team revenge against the coupe gang, and carmalita. 2: will they have gently find a new girlfriend/partner after what happened with Penelope in Thieves in time?3:will they make like in one of you're earlier videos I believe a dark and evil person of the Cooper gang, like one who feels the gang is being held back by their moral values, like how the injustice versions of superman and Wonder Woman are portrayed In injustice gods among us , and injustice 2 also in to show how the copper gang could have been if they had no moral compass to help them.just somethings I thought about.
I doubt Penelope is just going to let Bentley replace her after all the trouble she went through. Also Bentley may still have feelings for her.
I have a different but related theory.
What if she accidentally activated or was testing the Time Machine? Then whenever or wherever she was, pre-robot Clockwerk found her? He captured her, forced her to reveal her knowledge of her time period, then brainwashed or hypnotized her into betraying Bentley’s secrets to LeParadox?
This would explain her sudden and unpredictable betrayal.
You know that's something I never asked her that's actually something I really would like to know too.🤔
If Penelope comes back, I think it'll be to help find obviously, since she helped get him into this mess!
Plus, that'll be the only way to try and repair her relationship with Bentley, which he'll be on the fence at first, but come to realize it may help, but I would like to see Carmelite's reaction to it though, since she loves him
I wouldn't be surprised if they go with a redemption ark like that :)
@@VtnVivi yeah, exactly! :)
She did build LeParadox’s time machine, she may know how to track it. Distress beacons, electronic flight log, spare time phones, or simply a tracking device. Honestly Penelope may be the best one suitable in finding sly. They can say her reason for her help was because she misses her boyfriend, which is believable given how she still sends him postcards.
One theory I think is more likely is that she was suffering from a multiple personality disorder. Her long time repression of her black Baron persona after joining the cooper gang created an “evil penelope”.
If sly 5 finally happens, I wanna see penelope fight her bad persona and push her back to the depths of her mind, get rehabilitated and rejoin the cooper gang.
Penelope help clockwork become immortal!!! 😱😱😱
Clockwerk and Penelope being like Father and Daughter reminds me of Slade and Terra, Shredder and Karai.
I am the same way with the reveal i did not mind her switching sides just wish they gave more context to her betrayal
There is a mission where you follow the black night before the reveal and she said “ the blimps left again maybe I should build some sort of scarecrow instead “
I like how the voice actor of Freddie Fish voices her
How Much Canonized Lore Do We Need For This To Happen?
I don't see this as really possible... Clockwerk's entire obsession was with him being greater than the Cooper Legacy. Part of that involves the ego that he could do it all himself. Why would he ever deviate from that long enough to have any sort of apprentice, let alone a daughter?
And if he _did_ do that, he would've taken every opportunity to have Penelope understand why Coopers and those allied with them are the scum of the Earth... which would render her actions in Sly 3, and her reasoning in Sly 4, entirely nonsensical.
The _non-Clockwerk_ parts of this make sense, but once he enters the picture it gets a bit too OOC.
Spyro 4 for 2022 who’s with me? It has to be this year at this point. 2021 isn’t likely anymore.
I have a theory that Penelope was born and raised in a rich family. She not only was an expert pilot, mechanic, and R.C. specialist,. But she also excelled in boxing and fencing (her fight with LeFwee.) Where did she learn all those skills? In a high class education. But she grew board of her life of luxury and wanted to be a pilot, but she was too young to enter so she created her Black Barron disguise and became famous but over time her Black Barron persona took a life of it's own developing a split personality disorder. When she became Bentleys girlfriend her Black Barron persona crawled it's way back and took control.
Ohhh you're right about her boxing skills!
It was a big mistake for Sanzaru to have Penelope betray the Cooper Gang. If we ever get a Sly 5, she better have a very good reason for doing what she did to Bentley.
Maybe it was poorly executed because her antagonist role would be temporary and they didn’t want to give too much detail on something that can be fixable.
I'm hoping the next game gives us flashbacks exploring her intentions more.
@@VtnVivi I sure hope we get that backstory.
Maybe like sly Penelope had a urge to do crimes
According to sly cooper vs battle wiki 1 sly is 1 year older in sly 4
It sucks that Penelope betrayed Bentley and the Sly gang. I do think that, if a Sly 5 was in development, maybe she could return again
Either a redemption arc or baddy again. It all comes down to the writing.
@@VtnVivi The potential Sly content that could come could either be a remaster of the original games, or a Sly 5. For me, I’d like if a sly 5 was to be made. PlayStation acknowledging Sly does mean they still know and respect the franchise. I feel like there’s at least something planned for the future of the series
Expection of the leader of the klaww gang, Clockwerk and Penelope were the only two to harness their technology in battles, little detail but look at every boss battle.
The Penelope and Clockwerk theory makes a lot of sense. Well done. 👍
Yeah if your ignoring the elephant in the room.
I still couldn’t believe that we didn’t get any crash bandicoot announcements during the PlayStation showcase last week am I right? There were definitely a few hints and Easter eggs to wumpa league but hopefully it gets revealed soon.
I'm just as confused.
I have this idea that though his body was destroyed, Clockwerk's mind/soul survived and entered cyberspace where he hid for years till he resurfaced in between Sly 3 and 4 and after finding out his body was destroyed he started looking for a way to get a new one. He discovered Penelope and by using that hate hypnosis from Sly 2, made her hate Sly and wants to destroy him, unknowingly making a weapon that would eventually becomes Clockwerk's new body.
However Clockwerk knew it was going to take time to make a new body and a bit harder with Sly and the others around so Clockwerk made Penelope give Le Paradox (who also could have been brainwashed by Clockwerk) time traveling tech to distract them as he knew Sly would win. After the gang bring Sly back to the present they go confront Penelope but find out the truth and Clockwerk unhypnotizes Penelope as he doesn't need her anymore and leaves.
Though the hypnosis thing is a bit cheap, at least its a way to undo making Penelope evil. We also would see another example of how far Clockwerk is willing to go to get revenge on the Coopers.
Clockwerk's mind or soul could be the brain itself, we never knew what really happened to the brain. If his eye survived, what's the likeliness of his brain surviving as well?
@@VtnVivi maybe LeParadox has it, would explain how he knew about Bob Cooper even though the thievious raccoonous never mentions him.
I never would have guessed it could have something to do with that Dr. M scene.
Penelope should have been a mole (or rat) on the inside of LaParadox’s operation, feeding the gang clues as to who they’d be up against in the chapter
That theory about Clockwerk and Penelope is just as sour as the Penelope betrayal in the game. As interesting as it would be it just sounds like we’re recycling an old villain to justify another character’s actions.
Plus, it would ruin the charm, theme, and mystery on what made Clockwerk who he is.
Before T.I.T. and that theory, we were under the impression that Clockwerk did all of the cyber modification to himself to hunt down the Cooper line and destroy them for good.
A being who went mad on his pursuit of vengeance; that will do whatever it takes to achieve that goal... Even by cheating death and removing their humanity...
So, if we go with that theory that Penelope built Clockwerk; then not only that would ruin Penelope even more, but also destroy everything on what made that mechanical, flying nightmare Clockwerk so interesting and terrifying.
@@CTC41392 an excellent observation. We shouldn’t be giving Penelope credit for other villains hard work.
@VTNVIVI I love the video and I like the idea of Penelope connection to clockwork also I like the symbolic meaning being the predatory owl hunting the mouse he probably used her
I'm still looking forward on beating again only for Bentley once more for Sly 5 unless they still decide to make Sly 5 official.
plottwist: She was only with bentley to make Sly jealous. She never fell for Bentley, she had always an eye for sly. When he ended up with Carmelita she started to work for paradox
Yes I totally see Penelope being raised by Clockwork as I would so be thrilled to see that as a plot element used by Matt Damsel and his secret team for Sly Cooper 5 Court of Thieves indeed!!!!!!!! :D :D :D :D :D Also that actually Clockwork would be actually Clockla by now after Penelope reconstructs a new body by for them. In addition to this I have a special new character that would be a misguided hero actually that would have connections to Sly and his Cooper family involving Connor, Sly Cooper and the main two members of his gang themselves. However, I don't want to indulge to much about this character as I don't know whether or not Matt Damsel would approve of such an awesome and unique character such as him actually being voiced by the Toonami guy again. Although actually sounding bad ass with his voice for this character like Vincent Valentine; where funny enough I made a break the 4 wall joke, and made my character actually have the same first name as that Final Fantasy 7 sub game's character.
time travel and robot birds.
Not a bad theory in this video, but my speculation tells me that she's the one that created clockwork. I mean she's really good at pretending to be someone else.
9:10 This one would make another great plot twist
What if Penelope actually created Clockwerk's metal body parts?
Ahh another classic theory!
But seriously I just hope all 6 crash bandicoot games released during the ps2 era gets HD ports on PS4 and PS5. That’s the one big announcement I’m watching for when it comes to the series now!
“What if Penelope was under someone's wing?"
*Specifically Clockwerk's wing*
Hey @VTNVIVI it is your number one fan and supporter here ;D!! I loved this video soo much and like the theory of her being raised by Clockwork it does kind of seem like a possibility especially since she debuted as the Black Baron originally in Sly 3 and how tech savvy she is and Oh my god I just thought of something!! How she loves to fly you know in airplanes and has rc choppers and all of that it makes it seem like a real high possiblity that clockwork had a big hand in raising her because get this what if she loves to fly because clockwork obviously could fly and she wanted to be alot like him dang that thought gets my mind rolling for real. And one more thing I wanted to ask you if you could make a theory vide, or either a back story or just a video about the Guru if you haven't already I have looked and didn't see one. Just imagine how AWESOME it would be it he returns in Sly Cooper 5 especially with new age graphics and had learned more ways to use his moon rock staff stick and has more powers it is a real nice thought if you want to make a Guru video I know you can make any video related to Sly Cooper and they will all be interesting and amazing bro!!
Thank you so much and you bring up nice points! I think I made a sort of Guru video in the past:
ruclips.net/video/G83hwAp0FXc/видео.html
Haven't seen your videos a long time, sorry for being gone so long! Btw love the new intro!
Edit: answering the question. I honestly almost dismissed the idea completely until you went into further depth with clockwork raising Penelope. I feel if that actually happened and we got some sort of background story on it, this would probably be the biggest plot twist in the franchise honestly. Now thinking about it your right, we don't know much about clockwork past but only that he hates the coopers & have been hunting them for generations. But what's the motive behind it all? Why does he even hate them? How did he even get his clockwork body? I suppose these are questions I honestly forget to ask especially since the franchise died unfortunately.... But I wanna say I like where the idea of clockwork being a father and later abandoning her is going. This could simultaneously flesh out both of their characters and not only that, it would make kinda perfect sense as to why she betrayed the gang in sly 4. Lastly I'd like to say and think, a lot of people feel clockwork was probably the greatest villain in this franchise. He had everything about him that you could want in a villain, so Penelope rebuilding him and even going as far as changing his appearance would honestly be a good way to bring him back. Or take inspiration from the events of Sly 2 with what happened with Neela. Being instead of reviving clockwork, Penelope will instead become the next clockwork, continuing the long legacy of hate.
She will probably succeed where her father failed, by killing sly. The gang will later learn about the terrible news and team up to stop and defeat Penelope. She made a great villain as the black Baron so she already fits the evil villain role & with her smarts she could probably start her own powerful evil corporation, making people into machines and filling them with the very same hate chip that she & clockwork lives off of. It will corrupt the world turning everyone and everything into pure hatred. The gang realizing that this is bigger than they can handle will try and gather help, going as far as reforming whoever left from the gang of Sly 3 and time traveling to gather coopers for help. Then finally a showdown will happen....... Yes..... For the sake of good vs hate. Peace vs war. Justice vs damnation. Everything the coopers & the gang stood for will be on the line here...... The final showdown will begin, in...... SLY COOPER 5: MASTER OF THEIVES
Ok so it was like 4 in the morning when I made this. I know I got off track throwing in my own mumble jumble but good video as always! Lol 😂
Thank you for sharing, interesting stuff you mentioned!!!! Thanks for sticking around :D
I actually do think it was a neat idea to have someone who was once close to the Cooper gang now become their enemy. I just wish we got to see a bit more of the transition of her from new Copper gang member and Bentley's new girlfriend to La Paradox's underling.
Yeah the execution was just poor.
By the way, I think you should make a video, diving deep into the lore of Gadgetron, Megacorp and GrummelNet.
There's so much mystery that surrounds them, and I always found them interesting in the series, especially how Ratchet interacted with them.
The big plus was having both Gadgetron and Megacorp weapons in UYR and then moving on to a greater corporation, with better weapons and armor, GrummelNet.
The corporations from the Classic to Future series are really cool, I always wondered how Gadgetron failed in the Bogon galaxy on planet Barlow?
Yeah I always found this intriguing!
That sound like a perfect plot for a new game
I think you also noticed it Vivi but Penelope could be the one who clockwerk was talking about(you know at the final phase)
I freaked out the first time I saw that Black Knight is Penelope but after seeing this part and defeating Penelope I wanted to kill Le Paradox so badly like my levels to kill Le Paradox went through the roof like 700%.
Sly Cooper 4 Thieves in Time the ending is so depressing because it felt like you didn't accomplish anything, sure you defeated Le Paradox and recovered all the ancestor's canes but Sly's stuck in Ancient Egypt and the damage Le Paradox has done to Bentley was so severe because he indirectly destroyed Bentley's relationship with Penelope.
What also still hurts is Sly being stuck in Egypt :(
@@VtnVivi I'm one of those people and honestly Sly Cooper 4 Thieves in Time the ending is so depressing.
Vtnvivi, this also reminds me of a quote “when you look at the dark side, careful you must be for the dark side looks back” Yoda. P.S. found this quote on google when searching for another. Thought this one sounded better, also I am a big star wars fan. 😇👿❤️🖤
I can definitely see why you would like sly cooper. With Penelope as Darth Vader and LeParadox as Palpatine.
@@TylerTheShepherd thank you!, true. I think Penelope like darth Vader she could be redeemed in some way. 🧐
@@JediOttselWaluigikid115 getting Sly out of Egypt could be a good start. As she was the one who built LeParadox’s time traveling blimp she may know how to locate it.
@@TylerTheShepherd I agree, and perhaps Penelope could apologize to Sly and the gang. And if Bentley is ready they could rekindle their old flame. P.S. sorry it took me a long time to comment I had to think of what to say. 😢❤️🔥
@@JediOttselWaluigikid115 actually Bentley may still have feelings for her. I don’t think you noticed it but during the ending cutscene after the LeParadox boss fight, when Bentley and Murray were looking at the empty chair in the middle Bentley was building a model plane that looks exactly like the plane he and Penelope were happily on as seen in another photo shown at the beginning of the game. Think about it. Of all the planes he could make why build one that reminds him of the good times he had with Penelope.
I was just thinking I wonder if vivi will make a theory soon woah
WOAH
@@VtnVivi wa-wa-wa-WOAH
Does Penelope even know she was a traitor? When Bentley asked if she sold out for money, her response was “No, your not listening. He’s just a means to an end.” I can understand that she has a bad side that she kept under wraps, but Is it possible that she had no idea of LeParadox’s true intentions and was deceived just like the others. He kept the illusion of a law bidding citizen up until now that even Carmalita was shocked to find out about (the Wild West level).
She should have known of his true intentions, after all she stole Sir Galleth's cane for Le Paradox. I think Penelope simply used poor justification when explaining the situation to Bentley.
@@VtnVivi Actually, after she explained it Bentley said “Wow and I thought you were smart.” He thought Penelope was smart enough to realize LeParadox’s true intentions but apparently she didn’t. Of course, when someone is angry about something, it’s easy for others to manipulate them.
@@VtnVivi but Penelope never actually went after sir Galleth, he came to her. LeParadox, who wanted her time machine, could have initially came to Penelope to offer her her own workshop so she can give Bentley a visual demonstration of what they can do. Sir Galleth, who has a charge first without thinking attitude, would end up getting caught while trying to liberate the land Penelope conquered when she in her mind was just defending her property. Once caught LeParadox could ask Penelope for the cane saying it would be worth a lot as a historical artifact.
In other words, what if Penelope was just in the wrong place at the wrong time thanks to LeParadox’s cunning.
@@VtnVivi funny you should say that she should have known about LeParadox’s intentions because I just looked up part of his name, paradox, on a whim and found that it means contradiction and a statement or proposition that despite sounding reasonable from an acceptable premise leads to a conclusion that seems senseless and logically unacceptable. And LeParadox is a character that makes deals that sound good at first but ends up in a conclusion that they made a horrible choice in accepting it. It’s like the name itself is describing the characters’ methods.
@@VtnVivileparadox could have fooled her into getting his cane as some loyalty test. Simply have one of his men accuse her of joining his team as a means to get a cooper member on the inside for some future heist, put her on the spot and offer a solution to prove herself.
Double announcement from insomniac games! Wolverine and Spider-Man 2! That was just incredible am I right?
I know O_O They're on fire!
how have i missed 3 sly videos. usually i watch them like 1h after or just when it's uploaded
i miss sly
I think in Sly Cooper 5 that Penelope takes her revenge on Sly & the Gang by bring back Clockwork and I do think in the fifth game that I think Clockwork may bring back all of the enemy that sly fought in the past
Oooo a massive prison break imagine that!
Sly 3 Penelope: No mentions of being hypnotized, a traitor OR influenced by Clockwerk's evil ways (Because the owl's dead), only became the Black Baron to enter the ACES plane competitions and has shown gratitude TWICE when she was saved by Sly and Bentley.
Thieves in Time Penelope: Turns her back on and betrays the Cooper Gang with the mentality of "Sly's using everyone for his own gain!", wants to make weapons for money (Even though the gang DID get the money in Sly 3) and ended up working for Le Paradox for a while for who knows why!
Sorry, but I just don't believe that Penelope would be the kind of character who would instantly side with the enemies, good reason or not. She has SO much potential as a playable character, but Sanaru Writers decides "Welp! We're just gonna make her a villain to cause more drama in the game! Carmelita sh*t talking Sly because he gave up a life of crime to be with her isn't enough!".
Seriously, Penelope being a playable character would be GREAT! Especially since we only played as Panda King, Dimitri AND The Guru in Sly 3! Penelope's the ONLY character who NEVER got to be playable, not counting her RC car and helicopter/plane missions!
Also, not only did we NOT get a background on Penelope, but Neyla NEVER got a background either! "Well she made a Homework Ring by having other students do HER schoolwork and she was caught by the cops, but they saw potential in her and had her start training as a constable."
THAT'S not a decent background! Just like Penelope, Neyla's background history is a HUGE mystery! What made her decide to join the Klaww Gang and work as a protege for Arpeggio in the first place? Did she REALLY wanted to be ClockLa? How did she even find out about ClockWerk and how he functioned for many years? WHY would she want to live as a giant owl with immortal life? Why betray both the Cooper Gang, Interpol AND Carmelita if her life was pretty much alright?
What we do know about both Penelope and Neyla is this: They both lacked any decent backgrounds from when they were kids, had no potential as villains, no real reasons to BE villains and the excuses for why they became villains is pure trash.
At least with Neyla, she became a villain in the same game and not in the next one. She planned and waited until she had a good chance to claim her ClockWerk parts, betrayed Sly and Carmelita and even waited until she was able to get rid of Arpeggio and take ClockWerk's body for herself. (How she and/or Arpeggio would even MANAGE to fuse with ClockWerk's frame by just jumping in wouldn't make sense if they jumped in as is. How did that work anyways?)
With Penelope, what excuse did she have to BE a bad guy? The "Father/Daughter Dynamic" would work, 5 - 12% plausible, but I just don't see that. In fact, I don't see her as a villain overall, at all.
The reasons for that, as the guy here mentioned, is this: How long time passed between Sly 3 and TiT were never brought up, "Because money talks" excuse is poor and there were going to be TWO additional villain characters involved. Also, Penelope's potential as a member of the Cooper Gang is WAY better than her potential as a villain. Like, what would she gain as a villain? Money? That's about it.
But yeah, seeing how the story wasn't working in TiT, that's another reason why the game wasn't as successful as the Sly Cooper Trilogy.
Not just that but early concept designs showed that a mole was supposed to be the antagonist and Penelope was original going to remain a protagonist.
She tried so hard and got so far but in the end it doesn't even matter.
It's not only a theory it's a Hybrid Theory
Also Vivi it might not be exactly amazing but the best crossover movie Scooby Doo meets courage the cowardly dog straight outta nowhere was honestly a really fun time I thought. I highly recommend it okay?
This kind of reminds me of Cassandra's case from Tangled series (along with mixed reactions from fandom lol). What do you think?
Actually...I've quite been curious about the animated series, have never watched it!
All will crumble... Beneath the SHADOW of my wing 🦉
Personally I think Penelope is clockwerk.
I mean think about it. Neyla has shown that anyone can convert to that owl suit.
Penelope has now hatred towards Coopers, Because Bentley is obsessing so much in watching over Slys legacy, that he is throwing away his potential in being her partner.
That's already a reason for her to dislike the Cooper lineage and she contributed already once in trying to erase the cooper lineage and ridiculing one of his ancestors.
She's also the second to know how to build a time machine to send herself all the way back in time where such technology shouldn't exist like a owl suit, to haunt Slys ancestors and has the ability to build the suit and hate chip.
Its also implied that the metallic owl parts are affected by some kind of time altering as they fade away once the chip is destroyed by Carmelita, conveniently before Penelope is introduced in the 3rd game..
It also wouldn't be a problem for her to alter her voice.
And who else would be better than her to have especially a grudge against Sly by trying to ruin his life after he is born?
But it doesn’t explain how she could fail to lose to Sir Galleth Cooper as Clockwerk when she already showed that she can easily beat him while stationary and no flight capability, twice in fact.
Well if supposedly say your theory is right and Penelope is clockwerks daughter then why didn't she team with constable neyla to help revive clockwerk or turn against neyla and arrepengio
Assuming she had the brain right from the start, she had no interest. Remember, she took the Black Baron persona for some time. You bring up an interesting question!
@@VtnVivi a question that should be discussed lol
I still don’t like what they did to her
Is it possible Clockwerk was a part of Slytunkamen gang or royal quart (I forgot if Slytunkamen was an actual Pharoah) The whole playing second fiddle thing seems to be very cyclical Dr. M couldn't have been the first to have thought that. Especially considering it seems as though Sly's ancestors had their own gangs too. I'm not to sure about Clockwerk being a surrogate father to Penelope but your point about her overhearing Bently and Murray's conversation in the vault makes a good start for her decline into evil especially since she did seem to care for Bentley enough to try and get him on the top with his inventions. It is possible that she may be trying to reconstruct Clockwerk as her new plan to get rid of Sly. The reason I think this is because of the cameos in Thieves in Time. Every time period he is still robotic even in the Ice Age which is long before ancient Egypt. It might be that Penelope in the future presented Clockwerk with the time machine and because of that we see him all over the place but he doesn't intervene because he is smart enough to know not to intervene with the past lest a Paradox erase him. It's an interesting thought all things considered
I like the theory that Clockwerk was originally friends with Slytunkhamen. He must've been stabbed in the back somehow which kickstarted his hatred.
Here's my theory: Sly 4 was badly written.
I love the idea of what you said. But I think there's something more deeper to her storyline. 🤔🤔🤔
it's been so long like since we had a game I can't believe it!!
I feel ya!
Been a while since you made Sly Cooper video
Another one coming up!
I personally believe that Penelope has a point in what she's trying to do especially when she says to Bentley that it's too late for him to not be called a bad guy the Cooper gang has done very questionable things some of which end in people's deaths there's certain things I can't agree with Penelope however majority of it I agree with her
I dunno I always felt
Like maybe with penelope’s strengths in robotics and her time travel and new hatred towards sly maybe she instead was the creator of clockwork, atleast his robotic form
I've always thought of this one :)
But seriously Vivi the new spongebob announcement earlier this morning. It just looks incredible I think! Cosmic wonder I think it’s called? The nostalgic hits so hard! do you agree too?
I've always adored SpongeBob games! Can't wait to talk about this one!
@@VtnVivi excellent! 😃😃😃
@@VtnVivi don’t forget all the other comments I laid out for you by the way too okay? I know you always deliver!
Not just Bentley or the Cooper Gang, fans of Sly Cooper. 😢
It's an interesting theory, but even then I can't imagine wanting to betray people who would gladly be your friends and family. No, it was Sanzaru's weak attempt to get rid of a second female protagonist.
That and trying (And failing at that too) to recreate a Neyla betrayal moment.
Problem is that Penelope doesn't have that same effect as Neyla and her "brilliant idea" on why Pene betray the gang falls flat.
Also to add: It was nice to have another female member to be on the Coopers' side, unlike going up against some of the female rouge gallery.
Penelope ain't a saint, that's for certain, but to make her become another Mustache-twirling, Saturday-Morning, Generic Cartoon villainess that needs to be beaten to move on the story is just disheartening.
The only thing that makes logical sense in my head is that she wanted to see Bentley put his focus toward bettering the world instead of pouring everything into the Cooper Gang, especially after they'd effectively disbanded, and in trying to find a positive cause to dedicate their brain power to, she ends up working under Le Paradox, who she initially believed to be a benevolent person. She starts to figure out he isn't what he seems, but instead of leaving, she decides to trick him into giving her a position that would allow her access to his true plans/intentions. She intends to send all of what she learned to Bentley, but Le Paradox finds out before she can do anything, and instead of killing her, he has Miss Decibel (or maybe The Contessa if he has contact with her) rework her thoughts in such a way that any negative thing she's ever thought about the Cooper Gang is now at the forefront of her mind. If this is the case, I like to believe that the defeat of Miss Decibel and Le Paradox breaks whatever conditioning was forced on her (or that Miss Decibel reverses it herself) and she's trying to make up for what she did while she was under that powerful influence.
I agree on the forced ''plot twist'' scenario. The execution was bad.
@@VtnVivi Sanzaru could at least made a comic that builds up to Thieves in Time like the pervious games.
So that way, we can see a couple of things:
* Sly and Carmelita relationship was like.
* Sly being a member of INTERPOL.
* Sly remembering the good ol' days when he was thief and missing his pals/brothers.
* Bentley and Penelope relationship was like.
* What cause Penelope to disappear.
* Murray being in a demolition derby.
* So much more.
Plus, I'm going with this idea to fix the damage that has been done:
Penelope is/was brainwashed.
Cliché, yes... But than again, Sanzaru added other Time Traveling Clichés when they made T.I.T.
It also would answer this question on why didn't Penelope stabbed Le Paradox in the back as well?
@@AzariahMarinaStarcaster This is something I thought about too, when these theories came up about Penelope, that's basically the most possible conclusion in this whole case.
1
She was trick by La Paradox, makes sense since Carmelite was fooled a bit too in her story.
2
She was brainwashed by Miss Decibel, but it was broken via her defeat or show a flashback of Miss Decibel and Penelope being locked up in the same prison, and since Miss Decibel was willingly reforming and trying to correct her mistakes, show her breaking her control completely off of her.
I don't know, tricked, brainwashed or not, just wanted to do it, I don't know, just gotta give a proper explanation to her betrayal in Sly 5.
Wow that's a sad story and a messed up one too.
Messed up indeed!
I blame Sanzaru. Know why?
vtnvivi I had hypothetical question for you , some new questions also.1:what if a reverse of episode 3 in sly 2 had happened instead where instead of Neyla betraying the cooper gang it had been instead carmalita, the example the promoted this what if is the sly Cooper fanfic story Neyla eavesrdropping ,here if I believe correctly its carmalita who takes the place of Neyla as the main hidden antagonist of this fanfic. 2: how did general taso use black magic to battle sly in the second part of their battle?.3:who will Penelope receipt possibly to try and defeat sly in sly 5 when and if happens?.4:where did taso get his shield?.
1. I think the community would've gotten really sad if the sotry had gone in that direction. Remember, Carmelita appeared in the first game prior, it would almost feel like Penelope's betrayal in Sly 4.
2. Interesting question! Seeing as how Sly fought Tsao on his ancestors' sacred ground, it's possible black magic was passed down onto him.
3. Not sure I understand the question.
4. I take it was passed down or forged by request.
@@VtnVivi sorry for the confusion for that third question what I was asking you for that one was who will Penelope recruit to try and get rid of sly before bently, camralita ,and Murray try and rescue him.
@@kelleninouye4815 Seeing as how she easily escaped from jail, I could imagine her breaking out old enemies out of prison. The likes of Sir Raleigh let's say.