Fully agreed on the Worf-Picard dynamic, that Worf did indeed want to be ordered, that it would solve his issues and allow him to do the right thing ... because it now would also be the honourable thing.
I agree - Worf wanted that order, because the second Picard orders him to save that Romulan, the "honorable" thing is to follow your CO's orders, and that trumps his hatred for the Romulans. Now, he can save face, because either action could be defended as the honorable thing to do by Klingon logic.
@@lynxk7667"Did Dr Crusher know about that ghost in the lamp thing from that Scottish planet that she hooked up with that one time?" - Bradward Boimler, USS Cerritos
It's a real shame that Starships don't carry smaller craft that can't be launched if they need to say, deliver a guy back to his people when they won't allow them to cross the border.
Michael Piller who co-wrote the episode was the one who suggested that Worf wouldn't give blood to the Romulan and was met with great resistance among Michael Dorn and other members of the writing staff. Dorn commented, "I called the producers and said I didn't agree. I thought giving blood was the honorable thing to do. I thought people would look at Worf as a murderer. The producers felt that Worf was getting to be too human... just a guy with a big head. When the opportunity came for them to show that Worf was not human, that he is not bound by the same morals as we are, they felt it was a wonderful opportunity." In hindsight, however, Dorn saw the wisdom of the decision, remarking how it revealed the different sides of Worf. Meanwhile, Piller noted, "Rick Berman knew instantly it was the right thing to do. Once he was behind me, it was a race to the finish line. And it was absolutely the right thing to do. You knew the audience was waiting for Worf to come around, because they always do that in television. But the character wouldn't do that and I think we made a really good decision. At first though, it was quite a shock and a controversial decision. But you end up talking about survival and survival among enemies. I think it was just a natural character development."
@@hariman7727 Except there's just as many instances of the writers not knowing what they're doing and needing people to call them out. God knows Mark Millar and Frank Miller need people to yank their proverbial leashes every now and then.
It's a balancing act. Writers need people who can tell them no, but sometimes the people who can also tell them to do really really really stupid things.
This is one of my go-to episodes for Season 3. I like how it showcases Geordi's and Worf's personalities, but in completely opposite ways, like you said. 🖖😎👍
I also like that it establishes that Picard is no chump. You can't trick him with platitudes, he won't be guilt-tripped by a literal enemy commander, no matter how much he wants peace.
Man, I know you've talked about it in other instances, but HOLY HELL the music in the opening scene of this episode is FANTASTIC. Absolutely essential to the atmosphere and sense of hostility and danger. You *feel* exactly how you're supposed to, instantly
If im not mistaken, this was the first episode to really establish the modern interpretation of the Romulans and laid the groundwork for all future TNG stories featuring them and establishing them as the consistent TNG antagonists?
Yeah, this episode and "The Defector" (which is effectively a sequel to this episode) definitely establish them in that role, and then a bit later this season "Yesterday's Enterprise" and "Sins of the Father", while they don't feature the Romulans directly, do remind us of the Kitomar Massacre and why the Romulans became the common enemy of the Klingons and the Federation, as well as setting up the whole Klingon succession arc next season which also ropes in the Romulans. And this episode definitely sets the tone for the Romulans as a culture.
@@digitaljanusAnd as you may know, the Klingon succession arc was originally intended to be the finale of season 3 (which would have tied everything together neatly in a way TNG never really did otherwise) but was pushed to season 4 to make room for Best of Both Worlds.
Geordi, I love ya, buddy, but... take the damn gun out of his hand before you help him! I'm not telling you to kill him when he's down. I'm not even telling you not to help him and just run away. All I'm saying is disarm him first, then help him up! It's common sense!
Episodes like this are some of the biggest reasons I despise JJ Trek's Romulan Supernova. All the potential of defrosting Federation/Romulan (and even Klingon/Romulan) relations, the promise of reunification (of a sort) between Romulus and Vulcan, the slow but noticeable march towards peace and progress... And it all got written out because Abrams is a dickhead who hates continuity and is in love with spectacle.
There are things I like and even love about the reboot movies, but in the long run, shattering the Romulan Star Empire like that is probably a detriment to ongoing stories in the main timeline, especially since the reboot universe isn't even all that relevant since it ran out of steam on movie 3, while the original continuity continues marching on. Still, what's happened has happened, and other writers have to pick up the pieces to make new stories as best they can. I am particularly curious how LD writers would handle the fallout of the Romulan Star Empire collapsing with the loss of its brain and heart.
@@dupersuper1938 Having not experienced any of that first-hand and going purely by reading *about* it, it feels more like picking up the pieces and trying desperately to make something of it (see also: Picard, especially Season 1) rather than anything anyone had any plans for afterwards. Kinda like another franchise JJ got his hands in, come to think of it...
@@bthsr7113 I won't fault the later writers for doing their best to pick up the pieces, even the writers for Picard. JJ left them a bad hand with nobody having any ideas in place for how to proceed from there.
@@TimberWolf99 Obviously. I'm not saying it was planned beforehand, just that they did some cool stuff with it. Also, I've seen season 1 of Picard once and that was more than enough.
According to LeVar Burton, this episode was Star Trek's homage to the 1958 film The Defiant Ones with Tony Curtis and Sidney Poitier where they play two escaped prisoners, one white and one black, who are shackled together and must co-operate in order to survive.
The Romulan dialogue here isn't exactly...out of character, but if you imagine a universe where the Ferengi weren't royally messed up, a lot of this fits the barbaric, season 1 versions of them better. It makes me wonder if this was, at least in part, a rewrite of one of those lost-Ferengi scripts that had to be scrapped after Last Outpost. Because these Romulans feel like a weird halfway between the barbaric Ferengi and the Romulans as we would come to know them in late TNG and DS9. That could also be a function of the fact the Romulans were hastily written into TNG as a possible replacement for the Ferengi, when seasons 1 and 2 were just throwing ANYTHING at the wall to see what stuck in a panic, and they maybe wanted to keep the dynamic they intended but couldn't deliver on with the Ferengi, or could also be that whole Berlin Wall falling thing. Either way, I find their rough draft here fascinating.
9:50 To me the whole Worf thing was more or less pointless after this point. It's not that it isn't interesting, it is. My sticking point was that the patient (Romulan) refused treatment so Dr. Crusher would be obligated to not act since the patient refused treatment.
Unless your captain is Archer, in which case the moral thing to do is apparently sedating the patient and preforming the treatment they refused. Because Archer is seemingly written like everyday was opposite day.
"a bear showing up on a base without a pass." In fairness to the bear incident, that one wasn't one of the worryingly many 0 to 90 moments. We were already at a 75 or 80. We were already close to exchanging hellfire with Russian and Cuba when a bear was mistaken for a Soviet commando trying to breach an air force base with nuclear bombers.
The Enemy, The Defector, Best of Both Worlds Part I, The Survivors, Tin Man, Who Watches the Watchers, Yesterday's Enterprise, The Offspring, Sins of the Father, The Most Toys, Sarek. There are Trek fans out there who claim TNG didn't get good until Season 4.
To be fair, who can say what the perversions of an immortal godlike being entail. Im nowhere near that old and I see the uses of a trap like that. Explains why Kevin came out with a whip the first time
Someone more familar with order ethics and legality can probably clarify, but I don't think Picard could order Worf to donate, as it would be an illegal order. I don't think a superior officer can compel a subordinate to undergo a medical procedure or donation.
I find that hard to believe. Obviously, Starfleet must have its own rules, and they're gonna be whatever the writers say they are, but if you can order someone to their certain death and they have to obey, why can't you order someone to donate a pint of blood?
Meanwhile on Enterprise, Archer attempts to force Phlox to treat a patient against his wishes even if it means sedating him to do it. Clearly the concept of a DNR doesn't exist in the Federation.
@@mikegates8993 Phlox did convince Archer to let him refuse to save an entire species because Phlox apparently skipped every day in medical school (and earlier) that taught actual evolutionary theory...So the doctor can refuse treatment...
Crusher did this a lot over the course of the show. Either browbeating patients into accepting her treatments, or in this case with Worf nagging him about being a blood donor.
@@dupersuper1938 And yet in the episode I was referencing the only reason Phlox was able to avoid treating a patient against his will on Archers orders was because he wasn't a human doctor and thus wasn't bound by human medical ethics. Because Enterprise doesn't understand...most things that it attempted to cover.
Fully agreed on the Worf-Picard dynamic, that Worf did indeed want to be ordered, that it would solve his issues and allow him to do the right thing ... because it now would also be the honourable thing.
I agree - Worf wanted that order, because the second Picard orders him to save that Romulan, the "honorable" thing is to follow your CO's orders, and that trumps his hatred for the Romulans. Now, he can save face, because either action could be defended as the honorable thing to do by Klingon logic.
Had they decided to beam a few ghosts on board, it would have made for a pretty swell "Welcome Back" gift for Beverly.
Omg Ew. But you're oh so right. Can't forget grandma's rape ghost
Sub Rosa shall forever haunt TNG.
I'm still in disbelief that it's a season 7 episode.
"That damn candle!"
@@lynxk7667"Did Dr Crusher know about that ghost in the lamp thing from that Scottish planet that she hooked up with that one time?"
- Bradward Boimler, USS Cerritos
@lynxk7667 it's one sexy candle. Not sure if you play star trek online, but that candle becomes a helpful tool.
...oh wait.
Maybe Beverly could hook up with an old flame.
Man, G'kar has always been a sneaky bastard hasn't he?
How long until he asks Troi about her pleasure threshold?
It's a real shame that Starships don't carry smaller craft that can't be launched if they need to say, deliver a guy back to his people when they won't allow them to cross the border.
Michael Piller who co-wrote the episode was the one who suggested that Worf wouldn't give blood to the Romulan and was met with great resistance among Michael Dorn and other members of the writing staff. Dorn commented, "I called the producers and said I didn't agree. I thought giving blood was the honorable thing to do. I thought people would look at Worf as a murderer. The producers felt that Worf was getting to be too human... just a guy with a big head. When the opportunity came for them to show that Worf was not human, that he is not bound by the same morals as we are, they felt it was a wonderful opportunity." In hindsight, however, Dorn saw the wisdom of the decision, remarking how it revealed the different sides of Worf.
Meanwhile, Piller noted, "Rick Berman knew instantly it was the right thing to do. Once he was behind me, it was a race to the finish line. And it was absolutely the right thing to do. You knew the audience was waiting for Worf to come around, because they always do that in television. But the character wouldn't do that and I think we made a really good decision. At first though, it was quite a shock and a controversial decision. But you end up talking about survival and survival among enemies. I think it was just a natural character development."
This is why producers and often actors need to stay in their lane, because they're not writers.
@@hariman7727 Except there's just as many instances of the writers not knowing what they're doing and needing people to call them out. God knows Mark Millar and Frank Miller need people to yank their proverbial leashes every now and then.
It's a balancing act. Writers need people who can tell them no, but sometimes the people who can also tell them to do really really really stupid things.
@@bthsr7113 they're called editors, the people who help writers stay on track without ruining something.
Always loved LaForge's wry sarcasm in this episode. Crusher could be quite sarcastic too, always nice to have some sassy characters in your ensemble.
I've always thought Galorndon Core was the coolest-sounding planet name in all of Star Trek.
It has a cool background in the expanded universe as well.
@@dupersuper1938like what?
Cellar Door
THIS was when TNG was exciting. We've never seen BEFORE or SINCE such rain and muck.
Do love your take on the Picard speech in this one
This is one of my go-to episodes for Season 3. I like how it showcases Geordi's and Worf's personalities, but in completely opposite ways, like you said. 🖖😎👍
I also like that it establishes that Picard is no chump. You can't trick him with platitudes, he won't be guilt-tripped by a literal enemy commander, no matter how much he wants peace.
Man, I know you've talked about it in other instances, but HOLY HELL the music in the opening scene of this episode is FANTASTIC. Absolutely essential to the atmosphere and sense of hostility and danger. You *feel* exactly how you're supposed to, instantly
If im not mistaken, this was the first episode to really establish the modern interpretation of the Romulans and laid the groundwork for all future TNG stories featuring them and establishing them as the consistent TNG antagonists?
Yeah, this episode and "The Defector" (which is effectively a sequel to this episode) definitely establish them in that role, and then a bit later this season "Yesterday's Enterprise" and "Sins of the Father", while they don't feature the Romulans directly, do remind us of the Kitomar Massacre and why the Romulans became the common enemy of the Klingons and the Federation, as well as setting up the whole Klingon succession arc next season which also ropes in the Romulans. And this episode definitely sets the tone for the Romulans as a culture.
@@digitaljanusAnd as you may know, the Klingon succession arc was originally intended to be the finale of season 3 (which would have tied everything together neatly in a way TNG never really did otherwise) but was pushed to season 4 to make room for Best of Both Worlds.
You make a interesting point. I have never thought of worf wanting picard to order him to help.
Not to bad of a video. Cheers.👍
I like your interpretation of the scene between Picard and Worf.
Geordi, I love ya, buddy, but... take the damn gun out of his hand before you help him! I'm not telling you to kill him when he's down. I'm not even telling you not to help him and just run away. All I'm saying is disarm him first, then help him up! It's common sense!
Episodes like this are some of the biggest reasons I despise JJ Trek's Romulan Supernova. All the potential of defrosting Federation/Romulan (and even Klingon/Romulan) relations, the promise of reunification (of a sort) between Romulus and Vulcan, the slow but noticeable march towards peace and progress... And it all got written out because Abrams is a dickhead who hates continuity and is in love with spectacle.
There are things I like and even love about the reboot movies, but in the long run, shattering the Romulan Star Empire like that is probably a detriment to ongoing stories in the main timeline, especially since the reboot universe isn't even all that relevant since it ran out of steam on movie 3, while the original continuity continues marching on.
Still, what's happened has happened, and other writers have to pick up the pieces to make new stories as best they can. I am particularly curious how LD writers would handle the fallout of the Romulan Star Empire collapsing with the loss of its brain and heart.
It led to interesting stuff in Star Trek Online, the novels (including the Coda timeline) and even later seasons of Discovery.
@@dupersuper1938 Having not experienced any of that first-hand and going purely by reading *about* it, it feels more like picking up the pieces and trying desperately to make something of it (see also: Picard, especially Season 1) rather than anything anyone had any plans for afterwards.
Kinda like another franchise JJ got his hands in, come to think of it...
@@bthsr7113 I won't fault the later writers for doing their best to pick up the pieces, even the writers for Picard. JJ left them a bad hand with nobody having any ideas in place for how to proceed from there.
@@TimberWolf99 Obviously. I'm not saying it was planned beforehand, just that they did some cool stuff with it. Also, I've seen season 1 of Picard once and that was more than enough.
I really think whether intentional or not, the funniest line in this episode is "I never lie when I've got sand in my shoes, Commodore!"
Telling Warf that giving a Romulan his blood would be worse than death for said Romulan might have persuaded him.
That Worf take is 🌶️🌶️🌶️
13:20 everybody just ignores the fact that the Romulan has refused treatment, and Beverly is going to do it anyway😂
Wait another season and you get to see her try to dictate treatment to Worf when he breaks his back
According to LeVar Burton, this episode was Star Trek's homage to the 1958 film The Defiant Ones with Tony Curtis and Sidney Poitier where they play two escaped prisoners, one white and one black, who are shackled together and must co-operate in order to survive.
Rather notable this episode came out only a few years after "Enemy Mine", which seemed even more to be based on The Defiant Ones.
This one was good at that time. And the way the Romulan and Geordi interacted 😅
Geordi gets lots of KO's during TNG. He never saw it coming 😈
Could you imagine Troi, in her skimpy little pajamas, rolling around in the mud while she wrestles a Romulan? Can't imagine why they took her out...
I cant see Troi in action like that. Maybe if she was a vengeful gargoyle like creature, perhaps she'd have a better chance.
Heck, even a middle eastern dictator with pheromone powers would probably be more ready to fight
So Demona and Queen Bee 😁
Now I can't not imagine it...
How about if Troi was a thousand-year-old blue humanoid alien that could manipulate dark matter and use telekinesis?
The Romulan dialogue here isn't exactly...out of character, but if you imagine a universe where the Ferengi weren't royally messed up, a lot of this fits the barbaric, season 1 versions of them better. It makes me wonder if this was, at least in part, a rewrite of one of those lost-Ferengi scripts that had to be scrapped after Last Outpost. Because these Romulans feel like a weird halfway between the barbaric Ferengi and the Romulans as we would come to know them in late TNG and DS9.
That could also be a function of the fact the Romulans were hastily written into TNG as a possible replacement for the Ferengi, when seasons 1 and 2 were just throwing ANYTHING at the wall to see what stuck in a panic, and they maybe wanted to keep the dynamic they intended but couldn't deliver on with the Ferengi, or could also be that whole Berlin Wall falling thing. Either way, I find their rough draft here fascinating.
9:50 To me the whole Worf thing was more or less pointless after this point. It's not that it isn't interesting, it is. My sticking point was that the patient (Romulan) refused treatment so Dr. Crusher would be obligated to not act since the patient refused treatment.
Unless your captain is Archer, in which case the moral thing to do is apparently sedating the patient and preforming the treatment they refused. Because Archer is seemingly written like everyday was opposite day.
That would violate Dr. Crusher's inviolable code of ethics. She swore an OATH to do "Eh, whatever."
@@mikegates8993 Not surprising, Archer is responsible for mass genocide after all.
@@brucechmiel7964 Meanwhile Janeway is trying to find room in her quarters for her 30th skull throne.
Ah yes, the Hippopotamus Oath, taken by all Starfleet quacks!
"a bear showing up on a base without a pass."
In fairness to the bear incident, that one wasn't one of the worryingly many 0 to 90 moments. We were already at a 75 or 80. We were already close to exchanging hellfire with Russian and Cuba when a bear was mistaken for a Soviet commando trying to breach an air force base with nuclear bombers.
Pretty sure this episode is why La Forge ended up being a Commodore in Picard S3.
Hey it's the actor from the Masterpiece Society, I guess things really were bad.
The Enemy, The Defector, Best of Both Worlds Part I, The Survivors, Tin Man, Who Watches the Watchers, Yesterday's Enterprise, The Offspring, Sins of the Father, The Most Toys, Sarek.
There are Trek fans out there who claim TNG didn't get good until Season 4.
I first saw this as a child in the 80’s and thought why don’t they separate the saucer section?
Why didn’t they just ask the Romulans for blood?
Worf was right, Jordi was wrong. Enemies are enemies. The cycle will absolutely stop: end all the enemies. 😀
To be fair, who can say what the perversions of an immortal godlike being entail. Im nowhere near that old and I see the uses of a trap like that. Explains why Kevin came out with a whip the first time
Someone more familar with order ethics and legality can probably clarify, but I don't think Picard could order Worf to donate, as it would be an illegal order. I don't think a superior officer can compel a subordinate to undergo a medical procedure or donation.
I find that hard to believe. Obviously, Starfleet must have its own rules, and they're gonna be whatever the writers say they are, but if you can order someone to their certain death and they have to obey, why can't you order someone to donate a pint of blood?
Opinionated Next Generation Episode Guide Kicks off the summer of Romulans with... a video posted the week before Xmas.
What about patients rights? The Romulan does not want to be treated
Meanwhile on Enterprise, Archer attempts to force Phlox to treat a patient against his wishes even if it means sedating him to do it. Clearly the concept of a DNR doesn't exist in the Federation.
@@mikegates8993 Phlox did convince Archer to let him refuse to save an entire species because Phlox apparently skipped every day in medical school (and earlier) that taught actual evolutionary theory...So the doctor can refuse treatment...
Crusher did this a lot over the course of the show. Either browbeating patients into accepting her treatments, or in this case with Worf nagging him about being a blood donor.
@@dupersuper1938 And yet in the episode I was referencing the only reason Phlox was able to avoid treating a patient against his will on Archers orders was because he wasn't a human doctor and thus wasn't bound by human medical ethics. Because Enterprise doesn't understand...most things that it attempted to cover.
:)