I'm an amillennial partial preterist. As was mentioned I believe most of the Olivet discourse and most of Revelation is about the destruction of Jerusalem. Great discussion.
What’s your view on these verses? Matthew 24:27-28 [27] For as the lightning comes from the east and shines as far as the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. [28] Wherever the corpse is, there the vultures will gather. I’ve read some of Sam Storms book and he claims this is the destruction of Jerusalem, but when you look at Luke you see a similar verse in regard to the second coming. Luke 17:37 [37] And they said to him, “Where, Lord?” He said to them, “Where the corpse is, there the vultures will gather.”
@@ENDofREGULATION30it says to show his servants the things that soon must come to pass. As in the believers the book was written to would see come to pass while they are alive.
@Alex Jennings What's convenient is how Revelation 22:16 says, "I am coming quickly". If that coming is quickly, the same way as Revelation opens then all postmills would not be partial preterists but full preterists. Ken Gentry hammers how Revelation opens with soon and quickly. He repeats it over and over again in his dvd series. Then when it comes down to the very last chapter in the bible the same standard isn't used. The very reason why is because he would be called a heretic. Full preterism is heresy. There's a big reason why a lot of post mill guys turn full preterist. For instance Gary Demar.
Alot of these arguments I can defeat effortlessly from a postmillennial prospective like a hot knife through butter! This is beautiful stuff! Probably have already said this, but this is like a young earther watching an old earther content on why young earth creation is wrong. The arguments that are good, end up being things that end up teaching you the most!
The kingdom of God according to Christ: 1. A tiny mustard seed that slowly grows into a tree. 2. A lump of dough with a bit of leavening that grows to fill the whole loaf. Postmillenialism is the only view that seems to adequately take these into account. “For the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the Lord has the waters cover the sea.” “ all the families of the earth shall remember and turn to the Lord.” “ they will beat their swords into plowshares…” all of scripture teaches a gradual and triumphant kingdom of God, inaugurated with Christ, a kingdom which will have no end to its increase, driven by the zeal of the Lord. The passages that teach this are undeniable in their interpretation, so whatever eschatology you believe should incorporate these passages in their fullness without neglect. Think big picture: what started as one man dying at the hands of the Jews and Romans has blossomed into a worldwide dominant force in nearly every country on the face of the earth. The gospel is winning, his kingdom is advancing, and he must reign until all his enemies are made a footstool for his feet, after which he will deliver the kingdom to his father in its fullness. It’s not weird or dangerous or unbiblical. John 3:17.
The churches have been gradually falling away for centuries. At this present time, a great number are performing sodomite marriages officiated by sodomite, or female "pastors", are marching for women's rights to murder their children, their young "Christians" are deconstructing into atheism, they're mired down with pornography addiction ( say 50% of all pastors) and pedophelia arrests / lawsuits, and denominations are splintering because of those things. The true Church (the invisible Body of Christ), grows smaller, not larger. I can't find a church building that is biblically run or sound in teaching anywhere near me. Global Marxism is here. You haven't begun to see death and destruction on earth. Jesus will Return to a complete collapse of nations and mankind. His far outnumbered Chosen People will be mostly overcome in the end (martyred). The Word of God has spoken it to the true Church saints throughout the Book of Revelation.
“For the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the Lord as the waters cover the sea.” “ all the families of the earth shall remember and turn to the Lord.” “ they will beat their swords into plowshares…” I believe that these verses refer to the future literal 1,000 year reign of Christ on earth. How can post mils believe that things are going to get better before Jesus returns when Jesus Himself spoke of future great tribulation just before He returns (Matthew 24:21)? And that if those days were not shortened no flesh would be saved (survive) (v22).
The answer to your question lies in verses 3 and 23 of Matthew 24. The context of Jesus’ comments was the destruction of the temple and His coming (AD 70). You gotta rethink what the disciples meant when they said “what will be the sign of your coming?” Remember, the disciples were surprised and confused when Jesus was killed and had no idea he would raise from the dead and ascend to His father to come again at a later time. When they asked this question, they weren’t asking, “so, after you ascend to the father and are gone for thousands of years, what will be the sign of your coming?” They were asking, “when will be the end of the temple and your kingdom inaugurated?” They understood the end of the temple with the end of an age and the entrance of Gods kingdom. Further, in verse 23 Jesus says everything he had said to that point was going to happen in that generation. And it did. Less than 40 years later, the Temple was destroyed and Jesus gave them the preparation they needed to adjust the the fall of Jerusalem. As it is said in the parallel passage in Luke “when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, flee” - and thats exactly what the early Christians did. They fled to Pella to escape the Romans once they saw Jerusalem surrounded. Hope that helps understand why we believe what we do.
Last Days = end of old covenant makes the most sense. It doesnt mean that these things wont happen in the current age. It's the opposite, it gives wisdom and instruction for what to expect now.
A little context first, please bare with my argument: Have you heard of mgtow (men going their own way)? Or Feminism ("I don't need no man!") Have you heard of the wef ("people need to stop eating meat?") Now, read 1st Timothy 4:1... "in the latter times..." We are told in verse 3... "forbidding marriage and commanding to abstain from meats!" Question... does that fit 70AD or modern times?
@@WilliamFAlmeida Obsolete only if one comes into the new covenant and is "in Christ" and of a better covenant. But Abraham's seed is split into the grains of sand of the sea shore (natural seed) and the stars of heaven (spiritual seed). The earthly nation of Israel (the sand) will continue forever as a natural seed and under the Old Covenant which includes pocession of the promised land which was given from the Lord and was to extend from the Euphrates river to the Mediterranean sea. The nation will not be converted to the Messiah until the 2nd advent of Christ. The rest of the natural race of the nations ... "the children of men," will "inherit the earth" as explained in the book of Enoch and relates to the covenant of Noah.
Historical Premillennialism also holds the two things in balance-- the triumph of the gospel and the persecution of the church... We just see the Millennium as a literal 1000 period of time where Christ reigns.
A Millennium Puzzle to solve… Will Christ be conducting funeral services for mortals killed in accidents 500 years after His Second Coming? The “first resurrection” in Rev. chapter 20 is not the first bodily resurrection in the Book of Revelation, because the two witnesses are resurrected from the dead in chapter 11. There are two different types of resurrection in John chapter 5. There is a spiritual resurrection from the dead in John 5:24, and a bodily resurrection from the dead in John 5:28-29. Does your view of the Millennium agree with what Paul said in 2 Thess. 1:7-10, when Paul said Christ returns in "flaming fire" taking vengeance on those who do not obey the Gospel? The fire comes at the end of Rev. chapter 20. Does your view agree with what Peter said in 2 Peter 3:10-13, when Peter said this earth is going to burn and "dissolve" when He comes as a thief on the day of the Lord? The fire comes at the end of Rev. chapter 20. Does your view agree with what Paul said in 2 Tim. 4:1, when Paul said both the living and the dead will be judged at His appearing? The time of the judgment of the dead, with reward for some and destruction for others is found in Rev. 11:18, right after the 7th trumpet, which is the last trumpet in the Bible. (This verse also proves the Book of Rev. is not in chronological order.) The judgment of the dead is also found at the end of Rev. chapter 20. Does your view agree with what Jesus said in Matt. 25:31-46, where He described the judgment of the sheep and goats, which leaves no mortals alive on the planet at the end of the passage? There are also no mortals left alive on the planet at the end of Rev. chapter 19. Does your view agree with Peter in 2 Pet. 2:4, and Jude in Jude 1:6, when they both said wicked angels are already in chains of darkness? Does your view agree with what John recorded in Rev. 9:1-2, when an angel comes down from heaven with a key to unlock the pit, which means the pit was locked before that time? Are there wicked angels already in the pit in Rev. 9:11? John recorded angels already "bound" in Rev. 9:14. The beast "ascends" out of the pit in Rev. chapter 11, which means the beast was in the pit before that time. Take all of the above and compare it to the symbolic language found in Rev. chapter 20, and the fact the Book of Revelation is not in chronological order, and you will have the truth. ======================= Multiple Second Coming Visions in Revelation: (book not in chronological order ) Christ returns at the end of Revelation chapter 6, with signs in the sun, moon, and stars, as are found in the Olivet Discourse. Those at the end of the chapter are hiding from the wrath of the Lamb. Why would they be hiding if Christ is not present? The "kings", "captains", "might men", "free", and "bond" are also found in chapter 19 at the return of Christ. He returns at the 7th trumpet, which is the last trumpet in the Bible, and the time of the judgment of the dead in Revelation 11:15-18. The beginning of chapter 12 is a history lesson containing the fall of Satan, and the birth and death of Christ, who is the seed promised to crush the head of Satan in Genesis 3:15. The Second Coming is found in the "harvest" of chapter 14, which is related to the parable of the wheat and tares in Matthew chapter 13. He comes as a thief at Armageddon, and we find the greatest earthquake in history in chapter 16. This occurs when the 7th angel pours out his vial. How powerful is an earthquake which moves islands and destroys the mountains? What is happening to the planet? He comes on a horse in chapter 19. Chapter 20? Does He come with the fire, and the judgment of the dead at the end of chapter 20, which agrees with what Paul said in 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10, and 2 Timothy 4:1? (The time of the judgment of the dead is also found in Revelation 11:18.) There are no mortals left alive on the planet at the end of Matthew 25:31-46. Why does an angel come down from heaven with a key to unlock the bottomless pit in Revelation 9:1-2, if the pit was not already locked before that time? Revelation 9:14 proves some of the angels were previously bound in some manner. Because the two witnesses were bodily resurrected from the dead in Revelation 11, the "first resurrection" at the beginning of Revelation 20 is not the first bodily resurrection in the book. The principle of "Recapitulation" means there are multiple visions of His return.
@SpotterVideo Historic Premilenialism was the position of the very earliest disciples of the apostles. And all of your questions have been repeatedly answered. Go and look it up.
@@luboshcamber1992I did look it up. One of the earliest Church Fathers was a Premillennialist, but he said there were other viewpoints during his time. I would refer you to the very early discussion of the millennium by Justin Martyr (A.D. 110-165) in his Dialogue with Trypho, chapter 80. Therein, Justin defended the position of Historic Premillennialism, but added that "many who belong to the pure and pious faith, and are true Christians, think otherwise" (ANF, vol. 1, p. 239)." Do you believe the Book of Revelation is in chronological order?
Most pre-millennialists believe that a myriad of people that no man could number will be saved during the 7-year Tribulation Period through a great spiritual revival fueled by the 144,000 Israeli evangelicals, the two witnesses in Jerusalem, and through the four angels all preaching the Gospel of the Kingdom.
@@Landis_GrantThat is most DISPENSATIONAL Premillennialists. HISTORICAL Premillennialists see that chapter as a picture of all the saved, both Jew and Gentile, out of the great Tribulation. The idea that the 144,000 Jews are “Jewish evangelists” is totally read into the text, and comes about by necessity with their pre-Trib Rapture doctrine. OF COURSE EVANGELISM IS HAPPENING during the Tribulation, for sure, but it’s being done as always, BY THE WORK OF THE HOLY SPIRIT, (who IS NOT “taken out of the way” as Dispensational Premillennialists believe and teach), through the Saints, Jew and Gentile, evangelizing and living out their faith “loving not their lives even unto death.”
Historically, the early church held that the Church alive at the time of the Anti-Christ would see him revealed and suffer under him until Jesus’ Return (this fits with 2 Thess 2:1-8, Daniel 7:21-27, and Revelation 13:5-10).
I believe in a premill post tribulation view. But I have a very optimistic view of our future! The gospel has already triumphed in reaching all nations. Yes, the man of sin is coming, and a one world Satan's system, but that is 7 years, followed by 1000 years where Christ and his saints reign on the earth! I am excited about that! More people will come to faith during that time as well!
I'm a postmillenial. On some of the points given, I disagreed. But with other points, i honestly just kind of felt like they didn't understand the full postmil perspective. Would have been good to have a postmil person there to at least step in and say "hold up, that's not exactly what we believe" and then provide clarification. That said, i do admit that there are many types of people in the postmil camp (just as there are many in types in the other camps) so it is plausible that they addressed someone else's postmillenialism fairly. For me, I can't say that any of the texts referenced made me remotely question my view (I did however spend some time studying 2 Thessalonians 1 before I had an interpretation that I was comfortable with). Thank you brothers for endeavoring to work hard and exposit his word.
Internal evidence (aka in Revelation) does reflect an early date for Revelation. Domitian, while not a good guy, gets a bad rap undeservingly. 666 is a very clear reference to Nero. What we have happening is everybody Bandwagoning with an interpretation of what Irenaeus said. When it could be interpreted as the letter or even John was still seen then, not that the book was written late. Myself, I believe Revelation and the Olivet Discourse were mostly fulfilled in 70AD. With only Rev 21-22 & Matthew 24:35 and onward left. The same mistake is made here that pre-mill makes. Matt 24 isn't about our future (except Christ's return). Futurist amill doesn't make sense to me.
I have really enjoyed listening to your thoughts on these things. I am an amil partial preterist. So, I agree with counter points to the postmil overreach, but I also think a fulfilled reading of Mat 24 makes the most sense. I’m convinced that we have good reasons to distinguish between the cloud coming of Jesus’ providential judgment (Imminent) and the final coming of Jesus (not imminent). If this distinction is valid, it’s very important because it helps us make sense of the imminency of Jesus’ coming in the NT, but in a way much more grounded in the text than the dispensational rapture. It helps answer the liberal and non-believers who say that Jesus and the Apostles were in error about the timing Christ’s return. The audience relevance of the signs, that it was about the fall of “that” temple and “those” stones, the persecutions against the Apostles, all was supposed to happen in Jesus’ generation. And they clearly did. This is very encouraging to our faith in Jesus and scripture’s truth. I have read Hoekema’s wonderful Bible and the Future, but I am not satisfied by his explanation of “this generation.” It’s clear that he simply assumes that cloud coming is the final return of Jesus and then he simply argues for the futurist readings of the signs as being consistent with that future event. He reads “no one knows the day or the hour” as in tension with “this generation,” so that “this generation” can’t mean Jesus’ generation. But why is this a tension? If I say, “I’m going to buy a car this week, but I’m not sure what day,” the uncertainty of the particulars doesn’t invalidate the general time period of what I said I was going to do. There really is no problem here. And the gospel was planted outside of Judea among the nations of the known Roman world (the same Greek word as in Lk. 2:1), and then the end of the temple came. Contrary to your claim at 36:49, this is not a less likely reading. Additionally, there is strong OT precedent for taking cloud comings as providential judgments of God, which don’t require anyone to see him on the clouds. This was the case in Isaiah 19. God’s “presence” is manifested by the fact that he predicted those events, such that when we see they happened, we know that God is the true God who speaks these things before they happen. He is the general of heaven. Is it not wonderful that this divine dignity is also true of Jesus and that he comes in divine judgment on the clouds of heaven, just as Yahweh did? But why does this require his physical return to earth at that time? That is not what a cloud coming was in the OT. It just seems to me that we are reading Mat. 24 backwards. We should not think that “coming/parousia” is exclusively about Jesus coming back. Manifesting his “presence” is also about signs on earth that proclaim his divine rule in heaven. If we read the time indicators as having first priority, we then see that his judgment coming at the beginning of the millennial kingdom vindicates us in having every confidence in his future return at the end of this millennial kingdom age (1 Cor. 15:24, 53; Rev. 20:11-21:4). Despite our disagreement, thanks for your efforts as we all continue to learn! Blessings in Christ.
@@amichiganblackman3200 Jay E. Adam's The Time Is At Hand, is really great. It’s only 150 pages but covers a lot. It focuses mostly on Revelation and the Millennial question. It has an appendix on Mat. 24, which could be a little better. I would differ with him on Isa. 65, which I think is a text about the current inaugurated New Heavens of the new covenant and the inner redemption (Col 3), and then the consummate new heavens with the general resurrection (Rev. 21). Adams takes the bowl judgments as all about Rome. There are reasons for this, but I think these go back and forth between Rome's civil war and Jerusalem' destruction, depending upon whether the referent is the land or sea. But even with those differences, the book is great. Way ahead of its time, when it was written.
I enjoyed reading your post. However, I have to push back on your point of the secular view of Jesus. That argument is a false dichotomy! If Jesus didn't come back in 70AD, that doesn't make him a false prophet. There is another option... people may just not have the appropriate interpretation/understanding of the passage.
@@ENDofREGULATION30, thanks for the comment. I hope it was clear that I don’t think Jesus predicted his decent from heaven, but only his cloud coming in providential judgment of Jerusalem in that generation. Obviously, if there was another way to understand this as a future return that would provide a solution. But you would need to propose one. I articulated Hoekema’s argument and the reasons it doesn’t make sense. I’m open to an alternative. But haven’t seen one that works. I think the problem has been our unfamiliarity with the OT use of cloud coming as a judgment event within history. Once we have that category, the tensions we impose on the text resolve themselves.
I have searched and searched and searched for a video contrasting the amil view against the postmil view. Thank you so much. I now know what the real postmil view is and I can honestly say, nope, not for me. How can James White follow this?
Spiritual blindness will cause many to fall away and only a spiritually blind person can say things are getting better. We have passed the point of no return these past 3 years. We are so near the end. This is my advice: stop listening to men and just trust God. Are you baptized with the Spirit? If you are then God is in you personally and can lead you to All Truth. Just wipe the slate clean and read the Word for yourself and ask God to reveal Truth to you. He will show you once you are ready and willing to accpet Truth.
In the light of the Lords words ' as in the days of Noah' it is impossible to take such a view that things will get better. The world has never been ' better' just because people are called out of the world , sometime more some time less. In Noah's time it was just 7. The Puritan era Christians of varied and some doubtful conversions believed that 17the century a protestant state Church was just around the corner and they made rules and laws that included all , not just local Church congregations.
Since Revelation cannot be taken 100% literal, meaning some yes and some don't.. it all boils down to YOUR interpretation of the text. This is why there are SO many views on this, because it is NOT black and white. Most who lean one way or another is NOT because of what they understand from reading, but what they hear from another's point of view. We all tend to believe what makes sense to us individually depending entirely of who is providing the interpretation of the text.
I don't see how the parable of the wheat and weeds contradicts postmillennialism at all. Postmillennialists don't believe there won't be any lost people. And it's a wheat field. It will look like a wheat field. It's not a weed field.
Well and good. But if you are convinced that parables give proportions of those saved to those lost then how would you explain Jesus' own explanation of the parable of the lost sheep? 99 lost to every 1 saved. As the apostle says, "I speak as a fool", but I trust the point is not lost. The fact that it is a wheat field is purely because the farmer planted wheat there. If he had planted cucumbers, it would be a cucumber field. That is not the point. The point is that there are wheat and weeds growing alongside each other. The point is that the original intention was that there should be just wheat (Adam was created righteous), but that the enemy introduced evil. Again, proportions have nothing to do with it.
The core issue is what both amils and postmils do with the promises to Israel. They apply them all to the church. I see that the promises to Israel are fulfilled literally in the millennial reign of Jesus Christ on the earth when Israel will be chief among the nations as is written in Zechariah 8:23 "Thus says the LORD of hosts, In those days ten men from all the nations will grasp the garment of a Jew, saying, “Let us go with you, for we have heard that God is with you.” I cannot allegorize this away and insert "church" for "Jew" in this prophecy. That is obfuscation. The millennium is not even primarily about the church. The millennium is primarily about Israel. It is the fulfilment of the seventh Levitical feast, the feast of booths. Nations who do not send annual representation to Jerusalem for the feast of booths are judged with drought. (Zec 14:18,19) All of the OT prophets have this have this in view when they speak of the end times.
Maybe youre right, maybe not. But would appreciate brothers who dont straw man their brothers, really easy to dismantle a view when you dont present their strongest arguments. A lot more compelling I think if there is real disagreement with an argument you steel man.
I don't understand how people believe the earth is going to be mostly filled with born again believers when Christ returns. I just don't see this in scripture. Seems like they just don't want to face how bad it's going to get
@@rocketmanshawn that is a false dichotomy! It doesnt have to be "70 ad or bust...." There is another option... no offense, but maybe some of us lack understanding!
02/01/23 I just had an 'AHA' moment! I am Amillenialist. I believe we all know that PreMillenial Dispensationalism is completely indefensible from scripture, but for months now I've been wondering about Post Millenialists. I know we share several beliefs, but I have wondered, what do they NOT see about why Amil is right OR what am I not seeing that has them so convinced that Post Mil is correct? I try to listen to someone until I at least understand where they are coming from. I did this with Leighton Flowers and his belief in 'Free Will' regarding salvation. While he was speaking a light suddenly came on. The 'AHA' moment where I realized why he believes what he believes so strongly. Of course I still disagreed but at least I knew why he believes as he does! That happened to me just now with Post Millenialism. I have wondered, why can't they see: *Satan is bound NOW from continuing to deceive the 'ethnos' (gentiles) *This is the time when the Gentiles are seeing "the great light' of the Gospel and coming into the Kingdom (Isaiah 9:2) *Jesus is on His throne NOW reigning NOW by THE GOSPEL! (1 Corinthians 15) *Jesus IS bringing HIS people into His Kingdom NOW (Colossians 1:13, Hebrews 12:22) *But even as Jesus saves His people, "evil men will wax worse and worse" (2 Timothy 3:13) *Jesus implied that when He returns He will find few people of faith on the earth (Luke 18:8) *Paul said that those Christians who "are alive and remain" 1 Thessalonians 4 Remain means to survive. When taken in context with 2 Thessalonians 1 where upon The Lord's return The Lord "pays back trouble to those who trouble you," the implication is that The Lord's people will be suffering, like soldiers in a fox hole in enemy territory, waiting to be rescued. So WHY do Post Mils believe that some type of 'Golden Age' will occur upon the earth, as though evil will be stamped out. I read what I believe was a good article refuting this theory by Sam Waldron called "DatPostmil? #4: Does the Growth of the Kingdom Require Postmillennialism?" He used the example of Matthew 13: " They assume that the growth of the wheat (the sons of the kingdom) during the gospel age means the withering of the weeds (the sons of the evil one). This assumption seems obvious to them, of course, but it is contrary to the teaching and assumption of Jesus. Jesus thinks that both good and evil will keep growing *AND GROW TOGETHER* till the end of the age." Today, I was reading an article from Doug Wilson called "Even Post Millenialists Get The Blues" (October 2013) which gave me the "AHA" moment! Excerpt: While I was reading, something happened that seemed to me largely independent of the case Chilton was making. He quoted 1 Cor. 15:25Open in Logos Bible Software (if available), and when I read those words, *it was as though something snapped in my head* “For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.” I can hear my premillennial friends saying that something snapped in my head, all right, but bear with me. I am simply reporting what happened. *Jesus was in Heaven NOW (emphasis mine) and He was reigning from there* *He was going to continue to reign from that place until all His enemies here were subdued* All enemies, with the exception of the last enemy, death, were going to be subdued while Christ was still in Heaven. When He returned, He was going to destroy that one, remaining enemy. In the other systems, when Jesus returns, the first enemy to be destroyed is death. When that verse snapped, like a dry twig, an eschatological paradigm fluttered together in my mind, like some kind of eschatological transformer-bot. Verses from all over crowded to line up together, hand-in-hand, and it was orderly, and amazing, and textual. The Lord said to my Lord, sit at my right hand *UNTIL* . . . ---------------------------------------- Aha!! Makes perfect sense! Although I still don't agree on how Jesus Reigning and what it means that Jesus has "destroyed all dominion, authority and power." Remember, we are told in Daniel 2:44 "And in the days of these kings (Neo-Babylonian, Medo-Persian, Greek, Roman) shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever." This happened when Jesus Ascended! Daniel 7:13-14 13I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him. 14 *And there was given him dominion, and glory, and A KINGDOM* *THAT ALL PEOPLE, NATIONS AND LANGUAGES SHOULD SERVE HIM* His dominion is an *everlasting dominion* which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed. This is God's Church, comprised of people from every tnation, tribe, people and language, in ONE body, who HAVE been given a Kingdom (Luke 22:29) and who REIGN NOW WITH CHRIST in the Spiritual Realm over *ALL" "dominion, authority and power" that once ruled over us! Yes, Jesus IS Reigning NOW! Yes, Jesus IS Reigining from heaven! Yes, the 'strong man' IS Bound SO THAT he can deceive the nations (gentiles) no more. Yes, Jesus IS gathering His Elect from the entire world, calling them out of darkness "into his marvelous light" (1 Peter 2:9) We HAVE been (not will be) "translated into the kingdom of his dear Son" (Colossians 1:13) And this will continue to happen until JESUS HAS DESTROYED ALL DOMINION, AUTHORITY AND POWER THAT HAVE RULED OVER HIS PEOPLE by THE GOSPEL! He will NOT stop reigning UNTIL ALL of His Elect are "translated into His Kingdom," in the Spiritual Realm by THE GOSPEL!! THEN "after the thousand years are fulfilled, satan must be loosed a little season (to deceive the gentiles once again)" Revelation 20:3 *THIS IS THE FALLING AWAY SPOKEN OF IN 2 THESSALONIANS 2!* But GOD'S PEOPLE, though they continue to grow WITH the weeds on earth, will be safe IN HIS KINGDOM by Faith! *THEN THE FINAL ENEMY WILL BE DESTROYED AT JESUS' COMING!* At THAT time, we will get our new bodies and the final enemy will be destroyed completely! At THAT time, God will "trouble those who trouble You" (His people) AND "give YOU rest." (2 Thessalonians 1)
Hey Rolysantos I’m a postmillinialist. Most if not all modern postmillinialist Christians don’t hold to a future 1000 year golden age. Modern Postmillinialists believe that the millennium started when Christ resurrected, exactly like amil. Postmillinialists have an optimistic view of the future because of chapters like Isaiah 42,Psalms 110, and 1 Corinthians 15. We believe that Christ will be victorious through converting many souls to the gospel. Modern Postmillinialists also interpret revelation and Matthew 24 through a partial preterist lens meaning those prophecies were fulfilled in the destruction of the temple in 70 A.D.. I would suggest watching R.C. Sprouls last days according to Jesus for the preterist view.
@@johnking9161 Thank you john. I get where you're coming from, I just think Postmil makes a similar mistake as Dispensationalism in regard to scriptures you mentioned. Dispenstationalists are fond of claiming that they interpet the bible "Literally," while Amils interpret scripture "Spiritually." The biblical dichotomy is "Earthly/Natural" fulfillment vs "Heavenly/Spiritual fulfillment," BOTH literal. Paul gives us this dichotomy in 1 Corinthians 15 when he explains how Adam was "of the earth" and Jesus is the man from heaven. "And just as we have borne the image of the earthly man, so shall we bear the image of the heavenly man." We were literally born children of Adam, fleshly, of the earth. We will literally be transformed into the image of Jesus, with spiritual bodies, heavenly. This is why Paul also distinguishes between Israel "after the flesh" and the "Israel of God." And between "The Jerusalem below" and "The Jerusalem above, which is the mother of us all." Keep in mind both of these Jerusalems are NOW. Hebrews 12:22 says "You HAVE come to the ....heavenly Jerusalem." For instance, in Psalm 42 we read "He will bring justice to the nations." Does this mean that by the Gospel, more and more will come to faith and that earthly nations will be filled with Christians until all nations are ruled "in the fear of God?" (2 Samuel 23:3) I don't believe so! Abraham was told early on that he would be "the father of many nations." Israel was supposed to be a light for the nations, and attract the nations around them to The Lord. God gave His word and statutes ONLY to Israel (Psalm 147:19-20) "He has done this for no other nation; they do not know his laws" So what happened? Israel was continually disobedient. They turned away from God, they killed His prophets, they "brought forth wind." They were ALL corrupt and "unless The Lord had left (Israel) a remnant, they would have been like Sodom, they would have become like Gomorrah." (Isaiah 1:9, Romans 9:29) So, the nations (ethnos/gentiles) remained in "darkness" untio Messiah (Isaiah 9:2) They were allowed "to go their own way" (Acts 14:16) They were "without hope and without God" (Ephesians 2) Apart from a few converts to Judaism, the majority of gentiles perished. Until Jesus! *HERE IS WHERE JUSTICE IS BROUGHT TO THE "NATIONS"* (Ethnos/Gentiles) *Satan, "The strong man" had been holding gentiles captive (2 Timothy 2:26) *But Jesus "Came to set the captives free" (Luke 4) *We are told in Isaiah 49 that "The servant" (Jesus) who is called "Israel" will restore Jacob (earthly Israel) AND gentiles. In this chapter Zion laments because she has been forsaken. But God assures her that children well be born to her during her bereavement. v21: Then you will say in your heart, ‘Who bore me these? I was bereaved and barren; I was exiled and rejected. Who brought these up? was left all alone, but these-where have they come from?’” The answer is, her children were born by THE GOSPEL! v24-25: Can plunder be taken from warriors, or captives be rescued from the fierce? But this is what the Lord says: “Yes, captives will be taken from warriors, and plunder retrieved from the fierce;" This is "the binding of the strong man" (Matthew 12:29) This is Revelation 20:2 fulfilled. But WHY was Satan bound for 1000 years? v3 "To keep him from deceiving the *NATIONS* (ethnos/gentiles) anymore, until the thousand years are ended." THIS IS "justice being brought to the nations" By the GOSPEL! But again, this means that gentiles (along with Israel who are of the faith of Abraham (Galatians 3)) HAVE BEEN "delivered us from the power of darkness, and HAS translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:" Paul told us in Ephesians 3 that this "Mystery" "was not made known to people in other generations as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to God’s holy apostles and prophets. This mystery is that through the gospel the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel, members together of one body, and sharers together in the promise in Christ Jesus." So yes, Jesus IS brining justice to "the nations" (ethnos/gentiles) by the Gospel. *But that does not translate into the EARTHLY nations being transformed* through the leadership of Christians. I believe this view misses the entire point. The world is STILL "under the control of the evil one" (1 John 5:19) This will continue to be the case until Jesus destroys His enemies fully and finally! They are already being rendered powerless (agains the Gospel) and being made His "footstool." But just our FINAL victory is not evident in the earthly realm until our transformation so too their FINAL defeat is not evidenct until they are destroyed from the earth. The earthly nations are and will continue to descend into apostasy at the SAME time that God is redeeming "the nations" and Zion is receiving her children in the HEAVENLY Jerusalem! So in that very literal sense, the "nations" are being rescued, are receiving justice and ARE victorious! Remember in Romans 8, Paul juxtaposes EARTHLY suffering and apparent defeat, with the HEAVENLY/SPIRITUAL reality that we ARE "more than conquerers" through Christ Jesus! I started listening to R.C. Sproul around 2000. Although I don't agree with everything he taught, he was a great man of God. I have listened to "The Last Days According to Jesus." I DO agree with the partial pretereist view that some prophecies were fulfilled in 70 AD. The sticking point for me is the part about the Gospel having the wonderful affect ON EARTH that Postmils hold to. As I mentioned about, I believe scripture teaches that things continue to get WORSE on earth while at the same time God's Kingdom is triumphant, the nations ARE receiving justice and Jesus IS destroying His enemies by THE GOSPEL which renders them powerless to keep His saints bound in darkness. Or, as Jesus told us in Matthew 13, the tares and the wheat continue to grow TOGETHER until the final harvest! At THAT time, the final enemy (death) will be destroyed! While we as Christians are few, and the earth is filled with Apostasy, we ARE yet "more than conquerers" though we are suffering, waiting, "surviving" (1 Thess 4) until Jesus returns and defeats our final enemy by transforming our earthly body. Sorry for the long post. If I'm still missing something I'm open to hear it. Again, I just don't see in scripture what the Postmils see regarding the outworking of the triumph of the Gospel and what that looks like. Thanks for the response.
I just have one question, brother. How can you possibly believe that Satan is bound now?? What was he doing before he was bound? The Lord allowed the gentiles to be reached because Israel was unfaithful. Not because Satan was deceiving them. (Though he has always deceived everyone) Asking this question in love. It truly makes zero sense to me among other things about both amil and postmil.
@@B1rdTheW0rd Did you read my post? WHY is Satan bound? For WHAT purpose? "That he may deceive the ethnos/gentiles no longer UNTIL the thousand years are over." What was he doing before he was bound? Answer: Deceiving the Gentiles! Although God had a plan to include gentiles ONE day (Genesis 17:14) That plan was *NOT MADE KNOWN* to people in other generations as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to God’s holy apostles and prophets. 6 This mystery is that through the gospel the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel, members together of one body, and sharers together in the promise in Christ Jesus." Ephesians 3 Although there were a few converts in the OT, the vast majority of gentiles were "walking in darkness" (Isaiah 9:2) They did not have God's law or the "light" of His word (Psalm 147:19-20), Because God did not give it to them ON PURPOSE! He "overlooked their ignorance" (Acts 17:30) God "Allowed them to go their own way" (To Perdition) (Acts 14:16). Before Christ, The Gentiles were "Without hope and without God in the world" (Ephesians 2 and 3). But you have to remember, God IS sovereign *EVEN OVER MAN'S DISOBEDIENCE* Remember what Joseph told his brother? YOU meant it for evil BUT GOD meant it for good! Remember what God tells the King of Assyria in Isaiah 10? “Woe to the Assyrian, the rod of MY anger, in whose hand is the club of MY wrath! *I SEND HIM* against a godless nation, *I DISPATCH HIM* against a people who anger me, to seize loot and snatch plunder, and to trample them down like mud in the streets. *The King was doing GOD'S WILL!* And yet, at the SAME time was sinning against God for His evil behavior: Verse 7: But this is not what he intends, this is not what he has in mind; his purpose is to destroy, to put an end to many nations. *THE KING HAD EVIL MOTIVES AND SO GOD WILL PUNISH HIM* Verse 12: " When the Lord has finished all his work against Mount Zion and Jerusalem, he will say, *I WILL PUNISH THE KING OF ASSYRIA* for the willful pride of his heart and the haughty look in his eyes. YES, Israel was disobedient even though they DID have God's laws and statutes! They WERE supposed to be "a light for the gentiles." but they FAILED! By the way, THIS is the reason why a NEW covenant was needed and did not rely on people Because "God found FAULT with the people" (Hebrews 8:8) The NEW covenant relies on GOD HIMSELF placing HIS law in their HEARTS AND MINDS and CAUSING THEM TO FEAR so that they WILL NOT turn away again (Jeremiah 32:40) *BUT THEIR DISOBEDIENCE WAS PART OF HIS PLAN SO THAT HE COULD BRING THE GENTILES IN TO THE COVENANT* But in order to do this, Jesus had to "Bind the strong man" (satan) (Matthew 12) who was "holding them captive" (Luke 4, 2 Timothy 2:25) The way Jesus "bound" the strong man in order "set the captives free" (Luke 4) *IS BY THE LIGHT OF THE GOSPEL* "The people walking in darkness have seen a great light" (The Light of the Saving Gospel of Jesus Christ!) Read Isaiah 49 very carefully! Remember when Paul says in Galatians 3:16: "The promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. Scripture does not say “and to seeds,” meaning many people, but “and to your seed,” *MEANING ONE PERSON* who is Christ. Yes, the promises were made to JESUS, the TRUE ISRAEL! Only IN HIM is ANYONE, Jew OR Gentile "The Israel of God" by faith (Galatians 3 and 6) In Isaiah 49, God calls "The Servant, Israel" (Jesus) to bring back JACOB (earthly/natural Israel), the "Ones I HAVE KEPT" (This is the remnant saved by grace because NONE Of them deserved to be saved as Isaiah 1:9 and Romans 9:29 tell us) "Israel" (Jesus) will also bring in THE GENTILES! How does He do this? By taking "plunder from warriors" and "captives from the fierce" THIS IS the "binding of the strong man" by THE GOSPEL! Also in Isaiah 49, "Zion" complains that God has forgotten her, but God promises she WILL have children! These children are born BY THE GOSPEL! " “Listen to me, my people; hear me, my nation: instruction will go out from me; my justice will become a light to the nations." (Isaiah 51:4) THIS IS THE GOSPEL! "Awake, awake, Zion, clothe yourself with strength! Put on your garments of splendor, Jerusalem, the holy city......How beautiful on the mountains are the feet of those who bring good news," (Isaiah 52) *THIS IS THE GOSPEL AND THE HEAVENLY ZION WHERE HER CHILDEN ARE BORN INTO* (Hebrews 12:22) "After he has suffered, he will see the light of life[d] and be satisfied[e]; by his knowledge[f] my righteous servant will justify many, and he will bear their iniquities. 12 Therefore I will give him a portion among the great,[g] and he will divide the spoils with the strong,[h] because he poured out his life unto death, and was numbered with the transgressors. For he bore the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors." - Isaiah 53 *THIS IS THE GOSPEL* “Sing, barren woman, you who never bore a child; burst into song, shout for joy, you who were never in labor; because more are the children of the desolate woman than of her who has a husband,” -Isaiah 54 *THIS IS THE GOSPEL AGE WHERE ZION'S CHILDREN ARE BORN INTO HER* We ARE in the GOSPEL age where Satan IS bound and God IS brining in HIS elect "from the four winds," from "every nation, tribe, people and language," (Revelation 7:9) *AND SATAN CANNOT PREVENT THE ONES HE HAD TAKEN CAPTIVE FROM THE LIGHT (GOSPEL) SHINING IN THE DARKNESS* (2 Corinthians 4:6) *SATAN CANNOT PREVENT GOD'S ELECT FROM BEING TRANFERRED OUT OF THE KINGDOM OF DARKNESS AND INTO HIS KINGDOM OF LIGH* (Colossians 1:13) REMEMBER: The text does not say that Satan is bound "so that he cannot do evil." Satan IS a tool in GOD'S sovereign hand and fulfills GOD'S sovereign purpose! But Satan CANNOT keep God's people from coming out of darkness by the Gospel! THEN once the last "sheep" has entered into the pen, Satan will be loosed for a little while! THIS is the "falling away" we read about in 2 Thessalonians when "perilous times" come (2 Timothy 3) Jesus is on the throne NOW! (Hebrews 8:1) Jesus HAS received ALL power, authority and A KINGDOM (Daniel 7, Matthew 28) A Kingdom that we enter NOW once we have believed (Colossians 1:13) And Jesus MUST REIGN (Present tense) until He makes His enemies a footstool! (1 Corinthians 15:25) Jesus is in the PROCESS of defeating His enemies BY THE GOSPEL! And the LAST enemy destroyed will be DEATH when He comes for His people AND takes vengeance on His enemies AT THE SAME TIME (2 Thessalonians 1) THEN *the Millenium will not be starting it will be ending* because Jesus would have destroyed the LAST enemy, death (1 Thessalonians4) At that time "He will hand the kingdom over to the father" (1 Corinthians 15:24) Sorry my answer is so long but it is required in order to give a right answer. And I've barely scratched the surface.
@@jesusislord1153 Satan IS bound my friend! The problem is with your "Literal" vs "Spiritual" interpretation. The OT fulfillmens of Israel, Jerusalem and the promises were EARTHLY/NATURAL They Failed! Including The Earthly/Natural Throne of David. Read Psalm 89. It was "cast to the ground." The NT fulfillments are "Heavenly/Spiritual." BOTH are Literal! OT Israel was an Earthly/Natural People. NT Israel is a Heavenly/Spiritual People, BY FAITH, Jew AND Gentile! OT Jerusalem is "In Bondage" NT Jerusalem is ABOVE and SHE is "The mother of us all" (Galatians 4) We HAVE come to the New Jerusalem (Hebrews 12:22) The Israel IN ADAM FAILED! The Israel IN JESUS will NOT fail because Jesus IS Israel and HE will Gurantee a people for Himself who WILL come to Him (John 6:37) and will NEVER turn away as in the OT. THIS is the guarantee of the New Covenant (Read Jeremiah 32:40 and Hebrews 8) Read Isaiah 49. Jesus IS the true Israel who will bring back "Jacob" "the ones I have kept" (these are the elect among the earthly/national Israel who will be brought to faith (Ezekiel 36, Jeremiah 32:40) And "Israel" (Jesus) will also bring in the elect GENTILES! How will He do this? By THE GOSPEL which is "the power of God unto salvation." The GOSPEL is what "binds the strong man" and "takes captives from the fierce." When the Light of God's Gospel shines into our hearts (2 Corinthians 4:4-6) the "captives are set free" (luke 4) and GOD's people who were "held captive" (2 Timothy 2:26) are "Transferred from the kingdom of darkness into the Kingdom of His son" (Colossians 1:13) Stop looking for earthly things my friend. They are PAST! And "Shadows" as Hebrews calls them. The "better things" and "Reality" as Hebrews calls them are HERE! Remember the promises were made to the "SEED" meaning ONE, JESUS! Jesus is reigning NOW by The Gospel as 1 Corinthians 15 tells us, and he "Must Reign" (present tense) UNTIL his enemies are made a footstool (By the Gospel!) The Lord will not bring judgment until ALL of His sheep are brought into the fold by The Gospel! THEN the falling away will happen (2 Thessalonians) when "satan is released for a little while" to deceive the "ethnos" (gentiles) once again.
Used to shy away from eschatology, didn’t think it mattered much compared to things like Christology or soteriology, but lately have really been enjoying studying the different schools of thought. Jonathan Edwards was a Post-mil, so I was tempted to lean that way but Im disposed to Historic Pre-millennialism. We will all have a lot of our theology corrected someday!
Post or per. Millennium. What does that have to do with my salvation . Believe in Lord Jesus Chris. And you will have eternal life. Ether way just live your life as lf Jesus is returning today.
Do I understand it right, that the speakers are a-mills arguing against post-mill? Interesting combi for me as a pre-mill / dispy. 😅 Very weird. A-mill is the most nonsensical and fits the Bible worst. I will never understand how anyone can take it seriously. Post-mill is much harder to refute. I'm currently collecting arguments and Bible passages.
G.K. Beale does a good job explaining our view that the tribulation runs throughout the church age. The Kingdom is inaguarted now but not yet consummated. ruclips.net/video/ZCpW8Fnd0uQ/видео.html
I was really hoping for some solid arguments from you guys but this was mostly chatter. I just want to hear the facts, reading of the text and why it doesn’t work. But this was a lot of round about. I hear it on both sides though. I just need to get off of RUclips and read it for myself.
I got another headache. Jesus will come when he comes. For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. They forgot ourselves. The great falling away? Look at all the BS were dealing with.
If the kingdom of God and Christ reigning with the saints is only in heaven then what enemies are being defeated through his reign right now? I believe the Bible leaves no room for any rebellion or rebels in heaven right now, so there are no enemies in heaven at the moment that Christ would conquer. As we read in 1. Corinthians 15, Psalm 110:1 (most quoted Old Testament verse in the new one) and in Isaiah 9:7 the kingdom of God is advancing! The stone which struck down the statue in Daniel’s prophecy grew and became a mountain filling the whole earth (it doesn’t say it grew in heaven and the kingdoms of the statue were very real earthly kingdoms). Therefore full on amillenialism is not biblical. Jesus has authority and reign in heaven and on earth (as he says himself)! Also Matthew 24 is clearly concerning Jerusalem as all the parallel chapters in Luke 21 and Mark 13 indicate and Jesus said that this generation would not pass away until ALL these things have been fulfilled, meaning that the Jews back then would see the fulfillment… Most of your arguments against postmil are arguments against preterism and/or Doug Wilson’s interpretation of certain passages. As if Doug Wilson is the only reference of what postmillenialists believe… + amillenialism denying the earthly reign has a weird gnostic/dualistic vibe to it… Be blessed! 😊
I think if they explain their view of the text that they’re disagreeing with this video might make more sense. You bring up the beast and the false profit, but you don’t talk about who it is from your perspective.
Josephus Flavius Ch 5. The Last Siege of the Jews. After Christ 3. But the people of the church in Jerusalem had been commanded by a revelation, vouchsafed to approved men there before the war, to leave the city and to dwell in a certain town of Perea called Pella. And when those that believed in Christ had come there from Jerusalem, then, as if the royal city of the Jews and the whole land of judea were entirely destitute of holy men, the judgment of God at length overtook those who had committed such outrages against Christ and his apostles, and totally destroyed that generation of impious men.
I have to push back! If you take Jesus warning "literally", that they were to flee to the mountains, should you also not take "every eye will see him" literally as well? And, what about the angels gathering together the elect? Did that happen? If so, why are Christians still present on earth if the church was raptured then?
The Post position and the pre trib secret rapture positions are equally preposterous and demonstrably false. Classic eisegesis and sophistry of the worst kind. In the Olivet discourse, there are certain events related to AD 70, but to think the book of Revelation is mostly about those events except, of course, chapters 20,21 22 is way off. Doug Wilson is incoherent on many of his views. Sometimes, it is hard to know where he stands on a number of topics. Nice guy, and I'm sure a godly man, but boy, he can be all over the place. Jim White is just looking for new horizons to make himself known and influential. Particularly among the new breed of Hipster Calvinists with their tattoos and youth movement. Durbin is the ring leader.
Guy in the middle talks WAY too fast … like Ben Shapiro. So I slowed the speed down to 75, but the guy on the right (Southern accent)talks too slow, so slowing it down made the Southerner sound “delayed”… like Forest Gump. 😂
Loved this! Made my pre-mil dispensational self giggle hearing A-mills says "Wow, I mean there is symbolic stuff in the bible but gosh, take the text for what it "literally" says." lol
Isn't that what you do on the rest of the 65 books? Do you not study the Bible and take it lierally? Do you believe GOD created the Universe in 7 days?
I am postmil and I listened to this to hear some counter arguments and I have been disappointed. You talked about understanding verses in context and on such a major section like chap 19 of revelation you miss the entire preterist context of the destruction of Jerusalem, symbolically described as Babylon in revelation, happen literally on either side of that passage of the rider on the white horse. The lead up is poetry about how great the destruction was and then right after is the cast of the beast and the false prophet into the lake of fire. Those two were ruling from Babylon, the image is clearly of Jesus coming in judgement over Jerusalem. If you doubt it is Jerusalem just look in 18:24 how it says in the city was found the blood of all the prophets, that is exactly what Jesus says to the priests about Jerusalem right before the olviet discourse. How about at Jesus' trial that the crowd cries out that we have no king but ceasar and then Jesus the real king of kings comes back to judge the city which is not the holy city but the unholy city, their ancient nemesis, Babylon. If you open your eyes to the imagery it is all over the places in making these connections. Yet most of this discussion is not a careful parsing of passages with respect but a large over simplification and quick dismissal fest by people who admit to not even finishing the leading commentary on the topic in which they are criticizing. Clearly this panel did not do postmil believers the decency of trying to truly understand the position, just a half hearted attempt to see what is said but not bother to understand what is being said.
I was talking to a leading postmill guy online. He was recommending several postmill books to me. He then warned me that the writers of those books turned hyperpreterist (all prophecy is fulfilled including resurrection) before they died. I feel like there is a major connection.
@@justinjones2160 When Jesus returns at the end of the age (there are only two ages, this age, and the age to come) death will be eliminated through the completion of the First Resurrection. Those guys buried people, and they died themselves, how is it possible they had no eyes to see that? And the entire first creation will be released from its corruption (decay) and animals resurrected (Rom 8:18-23) did they not notice that hasn't happened yet? I question that hyper Preterists even have the gift of the Spirit, as they're so obviously deceived about what the eternal state will be - no evil, no sickness, no death, pure love, as God and the Lamb Himself will be with us in person.
@SB I would never trust a hyper or full preterist. They are called both. Full preterism is heresy. They claim we are in the eternal state now. They claim history just continues on forever. They dont believe history stops as we do. They believe the second coming has already happened.
Paul said that in his life time, the gospel had been delivered to all the nations (compare Matt 24:14). If you're going to take Paul's word then we should understand it from his perspective and not the 21st century mind. The word "world" in Matt 24 is G3625 which is "oikoumenē" and it doesn't mean the planet, it's the "known world" at the time. Also used by Luke when a tax went out the the whole "world (oikoumenē)", Luk 2:1, And it came to pass in those days, that there went out a decree from Caesar Augustus, that all the world G3625 should be taxed." Romans 16:25-27 NKJV Now to Him who is able to establish you according to my gospel and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery kept secret since the world began but now made manifest, and by the prophetic Scriptures made known to all nations, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, for obedience to the faith- to God, alone wise, be glory through Jesus Christ forever. Amen. Yet, you would say the gospel in the first century had not yet been delivered to the entire "world".
The Postmill and Amill position come unstuck historically as the Early Church writings only give a Premillennial, Posttrib view no other view is given until Augustine came out with his Amil in 400 AD. This is a massive problem for all Augustinian based churches, for they are unable to verify their origins in Church history.
A Millennium Puzzle to solve… Will Christ be conducting funeral services for mortals killed in accidents 500 years after His Second Coming? The “first resurrection” in Rev. chapter 20 is not the first bodily resurrection in the Book of Revelation, because the two witnesses are resurrected from the dead in chapter 11. There are two different types of resurrection in John chapter 5. There is a spiritual resurrection from the dead in John 5:24, and a bodily resurrection from the dead in John 5:28-29. Does your view of the Millennium agree with what Paul said in 2 Thess. 1:7-10, when Paul said Christ returns in "flaming fire" taking vengeance on those who do not obey the Gospel? The fire comes at the end of Rev. chapter 20. Does your view agree with what Peter said in 2 Peter 3:10-13, when Peter said this earth is going to burn and "dissolve" when He comes as a thief on the day of the Lord? The fire comes at the end of Rev. chapter 20. Does your view agree with what Paul said in 2 Tim. 4:1, when Paul said both the living and the dead will be judged at His appearing? The time of the judgment of the dead, with reward for some and destruction for others is found in Rev. 11:18, right after the 7th trumpet, which is the last trumpet in the Bible. (This verse also proves the Book of Rev. is not in chronological order.) The judgment of the dead is also found at the end of Rev. chapter 20. Does your view agree with what Jesus said in Matt. 25:31-46, where He described the judgment of the sheep and goats, which leaves no mortals alive on the planet at the end of the passage? There are also no mortals left alive on the planet at the end of Rev. chapter 19. Does your view agree with Peter in 2 Pet. 2:4, and Jude in Jude 1:6, when they both said wicked angels are already in chains of darkness? Does your view agree with what John recorded in Rev. 9:1-2, when an angel comes down from heaven with a key to unlock the pit, which means the pit was locked before that time? Are there wicked angels already in the pit in Rev. 9:11? John recorded angels already "bound" in Rev. 9:14. The beast "ascends" out of the pit in Rev. chapter 11, which means the beast was in the pit before that time. Take all of the above and compare it to the symbolic language found in Rev. chapter 20, and the fact the Book of Revelation is not in chronological order, and you will have the truth. -------------------------------------- Multiple Second Coming Visions in Revelation: (book not in chronological order ) Christ returns at the end of Revelation chapter 6, with signs in the sun, moon, and stars, as are found in the Olivet Discourse. Those at the end of the chapter are hiding from the wrath of the Lamb. Why would they be hiding if Christ is not present? The "kings", "captains", "might men", "free", and "bond" are also found in chapter 19 at the return of Christ. He returns at the 7th trumpet, which is the last trumpet in the Bible, and the time of the judgment of the dead in Revelation 11:15-18. The beginning of chapter 12 is a history lesson containing the fall of Satan, and the birth and death of Christ, who is the seed promised to crush the head of Satan in Genesis 3:15. The Second Coming is found in the "harvest" of chapter 14, which is related to the parable of the wheat and tares in Matthew chapter 13. He comes as a thief at Armageddon, and we find the greatest earthquake in history in chapter 16. This occurs when the 7th angel pours out his vial. How powerful is an earthquake which moves islands and destroys the mountains? What is happening to the planet? He comes on a horse in chapter 19. Chapter 20? Does He come with the fire, and the judgment of the dead at the end of chapter 20, which agrees with what Paul said in 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10, and 2 Timothy 4:1? (The time of the judgment of the dead is also found in Revelation 11:18.) There are no mortals left alive on the planet at the end of Matthew 25:31-46. Why does an angel come down from heaven with a key to unlock the bottomless pit in Revelation 9:1-2, if the pit was not already locked before that time? Revelation 9:14 proves some of the angels were previously bound in some manner. Because the two witnesses were bodily resurrected from the dead in Revelation 11, the "first resurrection" at the beginning of Revelation 20 is not the first bodily resurrection in the book. The principle of "Recapitulation" means there are multiple visions of His return.
@@SpotterVideo It must be understood that Augustine was out of touch with the Early Church writings and that his views were a invention of his own and of his Gnostic background. Those Church Fathers before him would disagree strongly of his heretical teachings, Augustine a lines himself with the Gnostic, Cerinthus, were he says: They are not to be heard who assure themselves that there is to be an earthly reign of a thousand years. They think like the heretic Cerinthus. For the kingdom of Christ is already eternal in the saints-even though the glory of the saints shall be manifested after the resurrection. Victorinus (c. 280, W), 7.360; see also 5.147. This Is were Augustine gets his belief structure from, throughout the early Church writings it is loaded with a millennium week structure that says clearly that Christ will reign physically after the resurrection of the Saints, no other view is given.
@@russelljones2305 I have heard this Augustine argument before. However, one of the Earliest Church Fathers who was a Premillennialist said there were other viewpoints during his time. The main thing is what John, and Paul, and Peter, and Jude, and Jesus said in the rest of the New Testament. There are no mortals left alive on the planet at the end of Matt. 25:31-46, and there are no mortals left alive on the planet at the end of Rev. chapter 19. From New World Encyclopedia... "The early church Although the term amillennialism, coined sometime in the 1930s, is a new term, its view is never new. The Dutch Reformed amillennialist L. Berkhof correctly observes that this view is "as old as Christianity."[6] It is true that premillennialism in its posttribulational form, known as "chiliasm" (from Greek chilioi, meaning "thousands"), flourished in the first three centuries of the Christian era, during which the Christians generally expected the imminent return of Christ in face of persecutions in the Roman Empire. But, amillennialism also existed side by side. Thus, Justin Martyr (c.100-165), who himself was a premillennialist, referred to the existence of differing views: I admitted to you formerly, that I and many others are of this opinion [i.e., premillennialism], and [believe] that such will take place, as you assuredly are aware; but, on the other hand, I signified to you that many who belong to the pure and pious faith, and are true Christians, think otherwise.[7]"
@@SpotterVideo I am a where of what Justin said, but I believe it is in reference to this Gnostic heretical teaching as there are other Church Fathers who note the Gnostics rejection of the resurrection and any form of restoration of the earth. Paul and John also challenges these Gnostic heretical teachings that denies the idea of a restored earth and the thought of being judged by Christ at his return. One conformation is that Augustine stated he used to hold to millennium belief, but he gives no referencing of other Christians believing in a spiritualised millennium reign of Christ on the earth. Augustine says: And this opinion would not be objectionable, if it were believed that the joys of the saints in that Sabbath shall be spiritual, and consequent on the presence of God; for I myself, too, once held this opinion. But, as they assert that those who then rise again shall enjoy the leisure of immoderate carnal banquets, furnished with an amount of meat and drink such as not only to shock the feeling of the temperate, but even to surpass the measure of credulity itself, such assertions can be believed only by the carnal. They who do believe them are called by the spiritual Chiliasts, which we may literally reproduce by the name Millenarians. In Augustine’s writings it is clear that the spiritualising of the Millennium reign of Christ is of his own invention, as theologians who subscribe to his views give no other source to its origins.
I can certainly tell you both postmillenialism and premillennialism are wrong, but in this video, I can't tell if you guys are trying to disprove the postmil position or a partial preterist position. You're talking as though they're the same thing when they're not. You say the amillennialism position is the correct one, yet most in the amill camp, like myself, take a partial preterist position of Revelation and the olivet discourse. I'm amill, just as you guys say you are, but also believe most of revalation has already happened. I think it's quite clear that Revelation was written during the time Nero and the book is using a lot of recapitulation. So not everything before chapter 20 is past but most is. Also, Matthew 24 where you think it's talking about Christ's 2nd coming, going back to the beginning of Matthew 24, it's clear that Jesus is talking about the destruction of the Jewish temple thus ending the Jewish way of things, which did happen in AD 70. You talk a lot about context but completely ignore the context of Matthew 24, in which you have to go back to Matthew 23 to fully understand. The parallel passages in Luke 21 also confirms this context. Apocalyptic language does not always refer to Christ's 2nd coming and looking at context can help you understand what spoken of when the language is used. Yes the portion of Revelation 19 you read is the 2nd coming. But the portion you read from Matthew 24 is not about His 2nd coming. Look at context as you claim to do so well. It's quite obvious .
He picks the weeds first. Think that is a huge part you missed. They grow together and then he picks the weeds first. We will continue to grow until he makes all his ememies a footstool. He will return to a large harvest.
Thank you for your gracious attitude, but I don’t think you’re actually addressing real postmill views of key Scriptural passages and your shocked reactions to your own generalizations of the other side aren’t actually arguments. Please read or watch Kenneth Gentry thoroughly before publicly criticizing this view.
you have huge problems to overcome unless you acknowledge that some things have already occurred. for instance, the fifth man was living at the time of the writing, named by gematria. and you have to explain how christ said he would destroy the temple, as it occurred. then, there are the obvious fulfillments, but you accept the word and deny its power and worship the traditions of men. he has come in power as Elohim, which we ALL ARE and sons of God, never mind your claim that christ was the only begotten. see: psalm 2 and David’s covenant, in which we are all sons and daughters of the most high! if this is the new covenant, as you say, we all have the law written on our hearts, love God and your neighbor. there is only one God, no matter how you worship Her. 👑 🤍 love, david
Earth in that passage can be translated land. In the OT, the land was a reference to Israel. During the destruction of Jerusalem by Rome approximately 1 million Jews were killed. Their population at the time was 3 million. That is roughly 1/3.
@@justinjones2160 Do you believe that Genesis 6:13 was speaking about "Israel?" My point is, you can't just say "it meant Israel here... so it must there!" Context brother!
At Christ’s second coming, this earth and the works that are therein shall be burned! Our Lord’s coming. The day of the Lord. He will come as lightning!
No that's what the Tribulation is for (to burn it all down). When Christ comes back he will begin to restore the earth back to the garden of Eden like conditions.
@@seanc2788, The Great Tribulation became fulfilled prophecy when the armies of Rome came, destroyed Jerusalem, burned the temple, and brought to an end the Jewish economy. Thousands of unbelieving Jews were killed, but the Christians escaped from that terrible desolation and destruction. “In A.D. 70.” CHRCK YOUR HISTORY!!!!
God did not create denominations. And denominations are NOT going to heaven! Christ is coming back for only one church “His church.” (ACTS 4:12; ROMANS 16:16; MATTHEW 16:18; EPHESIANS 4:4-6)
The church rapture is at judgement day John 6 39-54 Jesus says at the Last day four times. Jesus is truth keep the faith Revelation 21 shows no more days
This is one of the worst criticisms of post millennialists that I have ever heard. They must be completely ignorant of post mill doctrine. They should be ashamed of themselves
Middle guy is annoying i cant listen. If you study all the relevant passages for months, you will be postmill. Mathew 24 is all about ad70. So is revelation. On the last day jesus comes in fire and ends everything. Jesus says noone knows this day, meaning:. No signs!!!!! No prophecies!
I will email you later concerning your Amillenial view. You are making the same mistake as pretribbers in ignoring plain text and legalistically cherry picking verses and using inferences and a play on words to build your doctrine. In fact, its ironic that you so carefully dispell the errant pretrib doctrine by carefully identifying what plain text states, but when it comes to your own preferred Amillenial doctrine you become a pretribber on steroids, even using bullying tactics like claiming a passage is "extremely strong" evidence, as if to say one would have to be a moron to disagree with you. Revelation cant be a multi-tiered repeat of the same events. Just like dispensationalists, the Amillenial doctrine can't stand without reading Revelation as a tiered stacking of the same events from different perspectives. Revelation is chronological. The reason for the confusion is that it includes the great deception of a fslse, technologically enhanced end times scenario followed by the arival of the antichrist and the actual 7 years unfolding of prophesy. Thats why it seems to repeat itself. The resurrection in ch 20 cannot be a spiritual, 1st century resurrection because it includes they who were beheaded for not taking the mark of the beast in their hands nor forehead. You are forced to make the entire book a book of a non-physical, spiritual series of events, which is a natural domino effect of the rabbit hole you create when you mistranslate 20:4-6. Furthermore, the physical earthly millenial kingdom comfirms the prophesy of Zechatmriah 14 in which the Lord comes, and the saints with him, destroys the enemies of Israel, then forces the surviving remnant of those nations to trek to Jerusalem annually for the feast of tabernacles for generations to come. Lastly. Ezekiel 38 is not describing the same war as Rev. 19, but Rev 20 Gog and Magog after the millenial reign. The key is that it says that it will transpire in the latter days "when Israel is living safely in their land", which occurs after the coming of the Lord as depicted in both Zechariah 14 and Rev. 20. There is nothing new in Revelation. The only thing that is revealed is the timeline of the coming of the Lord once the Antichrist appears. That day and hour that only God knows. Thats why it is called the Revelation. You only have to read the 1st verse to figure that out. Revelation 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which "God gave unto him", to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John: God bless
If rev 20 isn’t talking about a spiritual resurrection then how do you explain this verse? John 5:26-29 [26] For as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son also to have life in himself. [27] And he has given him authority to execute judgment, because he is the Son of Man. [28] Do not marvel at this, for an hour is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear his voice [29] and come out, those who have done good to the 👉resurrection of life, and those who have done evil to the resurrection of judgment. This is speaking of a spiritual resurrection, is it not?
A setback. A bump in the road. Flip the script. If we are in continuous decline, then why were the Nazis defeated? Why was Roe overturned? Why is Christianity continuing to spread and grow worldwide? If moments of victory aren't disproof for a theology of overall decline, then why should moments of setback be evidence for a theology of eventual overall victory of the Church over the very gates of hell? That's why postmil so often warn people not to do newspaper eiesegesis, and instead to stick to scripture for the arguments. One can win the war while losing many battles along the way. See WW2 and the US civil war for examples.
For the rest of our series on Revelation and eschatology, see here:
ruclips.net/p/PL4nNmjgYbRZ7bCKQsCUZ9mi6SWRzCFRXG
I'm an amillennial partial preterist. As was mentioned I believe most of the Olivet discourse and most of Revelation is about the destruction of Jerusalem. Great discussion.
What’s your view on these verses?
Matthew 24:27-28
[27] For as the lightning comes from the east and shines as far as the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. [28] Wherever the corpse is, there the vultures will gather.
I’ve read some of Sam Storms book and he claims this is the destruction of Jerusalem, but when you look at Luke you see a similar verse in regard to the second coming.
Luke 17:37
[37] And they said to him, “Where, Lord?” He said to them, “Where the corpse is, there the vultures will gather.”
“The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show to his servants the things that MUST SOON take place.” Revelation 1:1
Funny (and convenient) how that verse was left out.
Is "soon" your timeliness or God's timeline?
Is 2000 years a long time to God?
@@ENDofREGULATION30it says to show his servants the things that soon must come to pass. As in the believers the book was written to would see come to pass while they are alive.
@@randomname2366 once again, is this God's timeline or man's timeline?
@Alex Jennings What's convenient is how Revelation 22:16 says, "I am coming quickly". If that coming is quickly, the same way as Revelation opens then all postmills would not be partial preterists but full preterists. Ken Gentry hammers how Revelation opens with soon and quickly. He repeats it over and over again in his dvd series. Then when it comes down to the very last chapter in the bible the same standard isn't used. The very reason why is because he would be called a heretic. Full preterism is heresy. There's a big reason why a lot of post mill guys turn full preterist. For instance Gary Demar.
Alot of these arguments I can defeat effortlessly from a postmillennial prospective like a hot knife through butter! This is beautiful stuff! Probably have already said this, but this is like a young earther watching an old earther content on why young earth creation is wrong. The arguments that are good, end up being things that end up teaching you the most!
The kingdom of God according to Christ: 1. A tiny mustard seed that slowly grows into a tree. 2. A lump of dough with a bit of leavening that grows to fill the whole loaf. Postmillenialism is the only view that seems to adequately take these into account. “For the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the Lord has the waters cover the sea.” “ all the families of the earth shall remember and turn to the Lord.” “ they will beat their swords into plowshares…” all of scripture teaches a gradual and triumphant kingdom of God, inaugurated with Christ, a kingdom which will have no end to its increase, driven by the zeal of the Lord. The passages that teach this are undeniable in their interpretation, so whatever eschatology you believe should incorporate these passages in their fullness without neglect. Think big picture: what started as one man dying at the hands of the Jews and Romans has blossomed into a worldwide dominant force in nearly every country on the face of the earth. The gospel is winning, his kingdom is advancing, and he must reign until all his enemies are made a footstool for his feet, after which he will deliver the kingdom to his father in its fullness. It’s not weird or dangerous or unbiblical. John 3:17.
The churches have been gradually falling away for centuries. At this present time, a great number are performing sodomite marriages officiated by sodomite, or female "pastors", are marching for women's rights to murder their children, their young "Christians" are deconstructing into atheism, they're mired down with pornography addiction ( say 50% of all pastors) and pedophelia arrests / lawsuits, and denominations are splintering because of those things. The true Church (the invisible Body of Christ), grows smaller, not larger. I can't find a church building that is biblically run or sound in teaching anywhere near me.
Global Marxism is here. You haven't begun to see death and destruction on earth. Jesus will Return to a complete collapse of nations and mankind. His far outnumbered Chosen People will be mostly overcome in the end (martyred). The Word of God has spoken it to the true Church saints throughout the Book of Revelation.
“For the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the Lord as the waters cover the sea.” “ all the families of the earth shall remember and turn to the Lord.” “ they will beat their swords into plowshares…” I believe that these verses refer to the future literal 1,000 year reign of Christ on earth. How can post mils believe that things are going to get better before Jesus returns when Jesus Himself spoke of future great tribulation just before He returns (Matthew 24:21)? And that if those days were not shortened no flesh would be saved (survive) (v22).
The answer to your question lies in verses 3 and 23 of Matthew 24. The context of Jesus’ comments was the destruction of the temple and His coming (AD 70). You gotta rethink what the disciples meant when they said “what will be the sign of your coming?” Remember, the disciples were surprised and confused when Jesus was killed and had no idea he would raise from the dead and ascend to His father to come again at a later time. When they asked this question, they weren’t asking, “so, after you ascend to the father and are gone for thousands of years, what will be the sign of your coming?” They were asking, “when will be the end of the temple and your kingdom inaugurated?” They understood the end of the temple with the end of an age and the entrance of Gods kingdom. Further, in verse 23 Jesus says everything he had said to that point was going to happen in that generation. And it did. Less than 40 years later, the Temple was destroyed and Jesus gave them the preparation they needed to adjust the the fall of Jerusalem. As it is said in the parallel passage in Luke “when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, flee” - and thats exactly what the early Christians did. They fled to Pella to escape the Romans once they saw Jerusalem surrounded. Hope that helps understand why we believe what we do.
48:08 “A generation goes, and a generation comes, but the earth remains forever.”
Ecclesiastes 1:4 ESV
Last Days = end of old covenant makes the most sense. It doesnt mean that these things wont happen in the current age. It's the opposite, it gives wisdom and instruction for what to expect now.
There is no end to any of God's covenants. They are all everlasting covenants including the one with Adam, Noah, Abraham, Hagar, and David.
A little context first, please bare with my argument:
Have you heard of mgtow (men going their own way)?
Or Feminism ("I don't need no man!")
Have you heard of the wef ("people need to stop eating meat?")
Now, read 1st Timothy 4:1... "in the latter times..."
We are told in verse 3... "forbidding marriage and commanding to abstain from meats!"
Question... does that fit 70AD or modern times?
@@st.christopher4854 Hebrews 8 says it's obsolete. I mean it in that sense.
@@WilliamFAlmeida
Obsolete only if one comes into the new covenant and is "in Christ" and of a better covenant.
But Abraham's seed is split into the grains of sand of the sea shore (natural seed) and the stars of heaven (spiritual seed). The earthly nation of Israel (the sand) will continue forever as a natural seed and under the Old Covenant which includes pocession of the promised land which was given from the Lord and was to extend from the Euphrates river to the Mediterranean sea. The nation will not be converted to the Messiah until the 2nd advent of Christ. The rest of the natural race of the nations ... "the children of men," will "inherit the earth" as explained in the book of Enoch and relates to the covenant of Noah.
Historical Premillennialism also holds the two things in balance-- the triumph of the gospel and the persecution of the church... We just see the Millennium as a literal 1000 period of time where Christ reigns.
A Millennium Puzzle to solve… Will Christ be conducting funeral services for mortals killed in accidents 500 years after His Second Coming?
The “first resurrection” in Rev. chapter 20 is not the first bodily resurrection in the Book of Revelation, because the two witnesses are resurrected from the dead in chapter 11. There are two different types of resurrection in John chapter 5. There is a spiritual resurrection from the dead in John 5:24, and a bodily resurrection from the dead in John 5:28-29.
Does your view of the Millennium agree with what Paul said in 2 Thess. 1:7-10, when Paul said Christ returns in "flaming fire" taking vengeance on those who do not obey the Gospel? The fire comes at the end of Rev. chapter 20.
Does your view agree with what Peter said in 2 Peter 3:10-13, when Peter said this earth is going to burn and "dissolve" when He comes as a thief on the day of the Lord? The fire comes at the end of Rev. chapter 20.
Does your view agree with what Paul said in 2 Tim. 4:1, when Paul said both the living and the dead will be judged at His appearing? The time of the judgment of the dead, with reward for some and destruction for others is found in Rev. 11:18, right after the 7th trumpet, which is the last trumpet in the Bible. (This verse also proves the Book of Rev. is not in chronological order.) The judgment of the dead is also found at the end of Rev. chapter 20.
Does your view agree with what Jesus said in Matt. 25:31-46, where He described the judgment of the sheep and goats, which leaves no mortals alive on the planet at the end of the passage? There are also no mortals left alive on the planet at the end of Rev. chapter 19.
Does your view agree with Peter in 2 Pet. 2:4, and Jude in Jude 1:6, when they both said wicked angels are already in chains of darkness?
Does your view agree with what John recorded in Rev. 9:1-2, when an angel comes down from heaven with a key to unlock the pit, which means the pit was locked before that time? Are there wicked angels already in the pit in Rev. 9:11? John recorded angels already "bound" in Rev. 9:14. The beast "ascends" out of the pit in Rev. chapter 11, which means the beast was in the pit before that time.
Take all of the above and compare it to the symbolic language found in Rev. chapter 20, and the fact the Book of Revelation is not in chronological order, and you will have the truth.
=======================
Multiple Second Coming Visions in Revelation: (book not in chronological order )
Christ returns at the end of Revelation chapter 6, with signs in the sun, moon, and stars, as are found in the Olivet Discourse.
Those at the end of the chapter are hiding from the wrath of the Lamb.
Why would they be hiding if Christ is not present?
The "kings", "captains", "might men", "free", and "bond" are also found in chapter 19 at the return of Christ.
He returns at the 7th trumpet, which is the last trumpet in the Bible, and the time of the judgment of the dead in Revelation 11:15-18.
The beginning of chapter 12 is a history lesson containing the fall of Satan, and the birth and death of Christ, who is the seed promised to crush the head of Satan in Genesis 3:15.
The Second Coming is found in the "harvest" of chapter 14, which is related to the parable of the wheat and tares in Matthew chapter 13.
He comes as a thief at Armageddon, and we find the greatest earthquake in history in chapter 16. This occurs when the 7th angel pours out his vial. How powerful is an earthquake which moves islands and destroys the mountains? What is happening to the planet?
He comes on a horse in chapter 19.
Chapter 20?
Does He come with the fire, and the judgment of the dead at the end of chapter 20, which agrees with what Paul said in 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10, and 2 Timothy 4:1?
(The time of the judgment of the dead is also found in Revelation 11:18.)
There are no mortals left alive on the planet at the end of Matthew 25:31-46.
Why does an angel come down from heaven with a key to unlock the bottomless pit in Revelation 9:1-2, if the pit was not already locked before that time?
Revelation 9:14 proves some of the angels were previously bound in some manner.
Because the two witnesses were bodily resurrected from the dead in Revelation 11, the "first resurrection" at the beginning of Revelation 20 is not the first bodily resurrection in the book.
The principle of "Recapitulation" means there are multiple visions of His return.
@SpotterVideo
Historic Premilenialism was the position of the very earliest disciples of the apostles. And all of your questions have been repeatedly answered. Go and look it up.
@@luboshcamber1992I did look it up. One of the earliest Church Fathers was a Premillennialist, but he said there were other viewpoints during his time.
I would refer you to the very early discussion of the millennium by Justin Martyr (A.D. 110-165) in his Dialogue with Trypho, chapter 80. Therein, Justin defended the position of Historic Premillennialism, but added that "many who belong to the pure and pious faith, and are true Christians, think otherwise" (ANF, vol. 1, p. 239)."
Do you believe the Book of Revelation is in chronological order?
Most pre-millennialists believe that a myriad of people that no man could number will be saved during the 7-year Tribulation Period through a great spiritual revival fueled by the 144,000 Israeli evangelicals, the two witnesses in Jerusalem, and through the four angels all preaching the Gospel of the Kingdom.
@@Landis_GrantThat is most DISPENSATIONAL Premillennialists.
HISTORICAL Premillennialists see that chapter as a picture of all the saved, both Jew and Gentile, out of the great Tribulation.
The idea that the 144,000 Jews are “Jewish evangelists” is totally read into the text, and comes about by necessity with their pre-Trib Rapture doctrine.
OF COURSE EVANGELISM IS HAPPENING during the Tribulation, for sure, but it’s being done as always, BY THE WORK OF THE HOLY SPIRIT, (who IS NOT “taken out of the way” as Dispensational Premillennialists believe and teach), through the Saints, Jew and Gentile, evangelizing and living out their faith “loving not their lives even unto death.”
Historically, the early church held that the Church alive at the time of the Anti-Christ would see him revealed and suffer under him until Jesus’ Return (this fits with 2 Thess 2:1-8, Daniel 7:21-27, and Revelation 13:5-10).
I believe in a premill post tribulation view. But I have a very optimistic view of our future! The gospel has already triumphed in reaching all nations. Yes, the man of sin is coming, and a one world Satan's system, but that is 7 years, followed by 1000 years where Christ and his saints reign on the earth! I am excited about that! More people will come to faith during that time as well!
I'm a postmillenial. On some of the points given, I disagreed. But with other points, i honestly just kind of felt like they didn't understand the full postmil perspective. Would have been good to have a postmil person there to at least step in and say "hold up, that's not exactly what we believe" and then provide clarification.
That said, i do admit that there are many types of people in the postmil camp (just as there are many in types in the other camps) so it is plausible that they addressed someone else's postmillenialism fairly.
For me, I can't say that any of the texts referenced made me remotely question my view (I did however spend some time studying 2 Thessalonians 1 before I had an interpretation that I was comfortable with).
Thank you brothers for endeavoring to work hard and exposit his word.
Wow, I am an Amillennial myself. I hold to an early date of Revelation being written. Revelation 17 is pretty clear on this.
Internal evidence (aka in Revelation) does reflect an early date for Revelation. Domitian, while not a good guy, gets a bad rap undeservingly. 666 is a very clear reference to Nero. What we have happening is everybody Bandwagoning with an interpretation of what Irenaeus said. When it could be interpreted as the letter or even John was still seen then, not that the book was written late.
Myself, I believe Revelation and the Olivet Discourse were mostly fulfilled in 70AD. With only Rev 21-22 & Matthew 24:35 and onward left.
The same mistake is made here that pre-mill makes. Matt 24 isn't about our future (except Christ's return). Futurist amill doesn't make sense to me.
I have really enjoyed listening to your thoughts on these things. I am an amil partial preterist. So, I agree with counter points to the postmil overreach, but I also think a fulfilled reading of Mat 24 makes the most sense.
I’m convinced that we have good reasons to distinguish between the cloud coming of Jesus’ providential judgment (Imminent) and the final coming of Jesus (not imminent). If this distinction is valid, it’s very important because it helps us make sense of the imminency of Jesus’ coming in the NT, but in a way much more grounded in the text than the dispensational rapture. It helps answer the liberal and non-believers who say that Jesus and the Apostles were in error about the timing Christ’s return. The audience relevance of the signs, that it was about the fall of “that” temple and “those” stones, the persecutions against the Apostles, all was supposed to happen in Jesus’ generation. And they clearly did. This is very encouraging to our faith in Jesus and scripture’s truth.
I have read Hoekema’s wonderful Bible and the Future, but I am not satisfied by his explanation of “this generation.” It’s clear that he simply assumes that cloud coming is the final return of Jesus and then he simply argues for the futurist readings of the signs as being consistent with that future event.
He reads “no one knows the day or the hour” as in tension with “this generation,” so that “this generation” can’t mean Jesus’ generation. But why is this a tension? If I say, “I’m going to buy a car this week, but I’m not sure what day,” the uncertainty of the particulars doesn’t invalidate the general time period of what I said I was going to do. There really is no problem here.
And the gospel was planted outside of Judea among the nations of the known Roman world (the same Greek word as in Lk. 2:1), and then the end of the temple came. Contrary to your claim at 36:49, this is not a less likely reading.
Additionally, there is strong OT precedent for taking cloud comings as providential judgments of God, which don’t require anyone to see him on the clouds. This was the case in Isaiah 19. God’s “presence” is manifested by the fact that he predicted those events, such that when we see they happened, we know that God is the true God who speaks these things before they happen. He is the general of heaven. Is it not wonderful that this divine dignity is also true of Jesus and that he comes in divine judgment on the clouds of heaven, just as Yahweh did? But why does this require his physical return to earth at that time? That is not what a cloud coming was in the OT.
It just seems to me that we are reading Mat. 24 backwards. We should not think that “coming/parousia” is exclusively about Jesus coming back. Manifesting his “presence” is also about signs on earth that proclaim his divine rule in heaven. If we read the time indicators as having first priority, we then see that his judgment coming at the beginning of the millennial kingdom vindicates us in having every confidence in his future return at the end of this millennial kingdom age (1 Cor. 15:24, 53; Rev. 20:11-21:4).
Despite our disagreement, thanks for your efforts as we all continue to learn! Blessings in Christ.
Do you know of any books that take a partial preterist amill view? For Amill, the main books I get recommended is Hokuma and Riddlebarger.
@@amichiganblackman3200 Jay E. Adam's The Time Is At Hand, is really great. It’s only 150 pages but covers a lot. It focuses mostly on Revelation and the Millennial question. It has an appendix on Mat. 24, which could be a little better.
I would differ with him on Isa. 65, which I think is a text about the current inaugurated New Heavens of the new covenant and the inner redemption (Col 3), and then the consummate new heavens with the general resurrection (Rev. 21).
Adams takes the bowl judgments as all about Rome. There are reasons for this, but I think these go back and forth between Rome's civil war and Jerusalem' destruction, depending upon whether the referent is the land or sea. But even with those differences, the book is great. Way ahead of its time, when it was written.
I enjoyed reading your post. However, I have to push back on your point of the secular view of Jesus.
That argument is a false dichotomy! If Jesus didn't come back in 70AD, that doesn't make him a false prophet. There is another option... people may just not have the appropriate interpretation/understanding of the passage.
@@ENDofREGULATION30, thanks for the comment. I hope it was clear that I don’t think Jesus predicted his decent from heaven, but only his cloud coming in providential judgment of Jerusalem in that generation.
Obviously, if there was another way to understand this as a future return that would provide a solution.
But you would need to propose one. I articulated Hoekema’s argument and the reasons it doesn’t make sense.
I’m open to an alternative. But haven’t seen one that works. I think the problem has been our unfamiliarity with the OT use of cloud coming as a judgment event within history. Once we have that category, the tensions we impose on the text resolve themselves.
@@amichiganblackman3200, you might look at “The Time Is at Hand” by Jay Adams.
I have searched and searched and searched for a video contrasting the amil view against the postmil view. Thank you so much. I now know what the real postmil view is and I can honestly say, nope, not for me. How can James White follow this?
likley because the postmil perpective wasnt faithfully presented. Not saying that I believe postmil, just that it isnt really respresented well here.
Postmill but with a rebellion at the end that likely will be very dark. But more souls will be saved then lost by a long shot
JEFF DURBAN can make any passage mean any made up non Biblical idea he wants . Very talented man
All power in heaven and earth has been given to who?
Brother in the middle talks 12,000 words a micro second.
Spiritual blindness will cause many to fall away and only a spiritually blind person can say things are getting better. We have passed the point of no return these past 3 years. We are so near the end. This is my advice: stop listening to men and just trust God. Are you baptized with the Spirit? If you are then God is in you personally and can lead you to All Truth. Just wipe the slate clean and read the Word for yourself and ask God to reveal Truth to you. He will show you once you are ready and willing to accpet Truth.
In the light of the Lords words ' as in the days of Noah' it is impossible to take such a view that things will get better. The world has never been ' better' just because people are called out of the world , sometime more some time less. In Noah's time it was just 7. The Puritan era Christians of varied and some doubtful conversions believed that 17the century a protestant state Church was just around the corner and they made rules and laws that included all , not just local Church congregations.
Since Revelation cannot be taken 100% literal, meaning some yes and some don't.. it all boils down to YOUR interpretation of the text. This is why there are SO many views on this, because it is NOT black and white. Most who lean one way or another is NOT because of what they understand from reading, but what they hear from another's point of view. We all tend to believe what makes sense to us individually depending entirely of who is providing the interpretation of the text.
I don't see how the parable of the wheat and weeds contradicts postmillennialism at all. Postmillennialists don't believe there won't be any lost people. And it's a wheat field. It will look like a wheat field. It's not a weed field.
Amen
Yeah that was a weak argument by them
Well and good. But if you are convinced that parables give proportions of those saved to those lost then how would you explain Jesus' own explanation of the parable of the lost sheep? 99 lost to every 1 saved.
As the apostle says, "I speak as a fool", but I trust the point is not lost. The fact that it is a wheat field is purely because the farmer planted wheat there. If he had planted cucumbers, it would be a cucumber field. That is not the point. The point is that there are wheat and weeds growing alongside each other. The point is that the original intention was that there should be just wheat (Adam was created righteous), but that the enemy introduced evil. Again, proportions have nothing to do with it.
@@mrpsayers3391 where does Jesus say that 99 are going to be lost and 1 saved?
@@zacharycutts721 Admittedly not directly, but clearly those who do not "need" repentance actually do.
“Don’t you know that we will judge angels? How much more, things that pertain to this life?”
1 Corinthians 6:3
The core issue is what both amils and postmils do with the promises to Israel. They apply them all to the church. I see that the promises to Israel are fulfilled literally in the millennial reign of Jesus Christ on the earth when Israel will be chief among the nations as is written in Zechariah 8:23 "Thus says the LORD of hosts, In those days ten men from all the nations will grasp the garment of a Jew, saying, “Let us go with you, for we have heard that God is with you.” I cannot allegorize this away and insert "church" for "Jew" in this prophecy. That is obfuscation. The millennium is not even primarily about the church. The millennium is primarily about Israel. It is the fulfilment of the seventh Levitical feast, the feast of booths. Nations who do not send annual representation to Jerusalem for the feast of booths are judged with drought. (Zec 14:18,19) All of the OT prophets have this have this in view when they speak of the end times.
Maybe youre right, maybe not. But would appreciate brothers who dont straw man their brothers, really easy to dismantle a view when you dont present their strongest arguments. A lot more compelling I think if there is real disagreement with an argument you steel man.
I don't understand how people believe the earth is going to be mostly filled with born again believers when Christ returns. I just don't see this in scripture. Seems like they just don't want to face how bad it's going to get
A glaring issue with preterism is the overemphasizing of the fulfillment in 70ad of almost all prophecy.
I agree and I'm a Partial Preterist
It actually proves Jesus right in Matt 23-24. He said this generation and it was.
@@rocketmanshawn that is a false dichotomy! It doesnt have to be "70 ad or bust...."
There is another option... no offense, but maybe some of us lack understanding!
02/01/23
I just had an 'AHA' moment!
I am Amillenialist. I believe we all know that PreMillenial Dispensationalism is completely indefensible from scripture, but for months now I've been wondering about Post Millenialists.
I know we share several beliefs, but I have wondered, what do they NOT see about why Amil is right OR what am I not seeing that has them so convinced that Post Mil is correct?
I try to listen to someone until I at least understand where they are coming from. I did this with Leighton Flowers and his belief in 'Free Will' regarding salvation. While he was speaking a light suddenly came on. The 'AHA' moment where I realized why he believes what he believes so strongly. Of course I still disagreed but at least I knew why he believes as he does!
That happened to me just now with Post Millenialism.
I have wondered, why can't they see:
*Satan is bound NOW from continuing to deceive the 'ethnos' (gentiles)
*This is the time when the Gentiles are seeing "the great light' of the Gospel and coming into the Kingdom (Isaiah 9:2)
*Jesus is on His throne NOW reigning NOW by THE GOSPEL! (1 Corinthians 15)
*Jesus IS bringing HIS people into His Kingdom NOW (Colossians 1:13, Hebrews 12:22)
*But even as Jesus saves His people, "evil men will wax worse and worse" (2 Timothy 3:13)
*Jesus implied that when He returns He will find few people of faith on the earth (Luke 18:8)
*Paul said that those Christians who "are alive and remain" 1 Thessalonians 4 Remain means to survive. When taken in context with 2 Thessalonians 1 where upon The Lord's return The Lord "pays back trouble to those who trouble you," the implication is that The Lord's people will be suffering, like soldiers in a fox hole in enemy territory, waiting to be rescued.
So WHY do Post Mils believe that some type of 'Golden Age' will occur upon the earth, as though evil will be stamped out.
I read what I believe was a good article refuting this theory by Sam Waldron called "DatPostmil? #4: Does the Growth of the Kingdom Require Postmillennialism?" He used the example of Matthew 13:
" They assume that the growth of the wheat (the sons of the kingdom) during the gospel age means the withering of the weeds (the sons of the evil one). This assumption seems obvious to them, of course, but it is contrary to the teaching and assumption of Jesus. Jesus thinks that both good and evil will keep growing *AND GROW TOGETHER* till the end of the age."
Today, I was reading an article from Doug Wilson called "Even Post Millenialists Get The Blues" (October 2013)
which gave me the "AHA" moment!
Excerpt:
While I was reading, something happened that seemed to me largely independent of the case Chilton was making. He quoted 1 Cor. 15:25Open in Logos Bible Software (if available), and when I read those words, *it was as though something snapped in my head*
“For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.” I can hear my premillennial friends saying that something snapped in my head, all right, but bear with me. I am simply reporting what happened.
*Jesus was in Heaven NOW (emphasis mine) and He was reigning from there*
*He was going to continue to reign from that place until all His enemies here were subdued*
All enemies, with the exception of the last enemy, death, were going to be subdued while Christ was still in Heaven. When He returned, He was going to destroy that one, remaining enemy. In the other systems, when Jesus returns, the first enemy to be destroyed is death.
When that verse snapped, like a dry twig, an eschatological paradigm fluttered together in my mind, like some kind of eschatological transformer-bot. Verses from all over crowded to line up together, hand-in-hand, and it was orderly, and amazing, and textual. The Lord said to my Lord, sit at my right hand *UNTIL* . . .
----------------------------------------
Aha!! Makes perfect sense!
Although I still don't agree on how Jesus Reigning and what it means that Jesus has "destroyed all dominion, authority and power."
Remember, we are told in Daniel 2:44
"And in the days of these kings (Neo-Babylonian, Medo-Persian, Greek, Roman) shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever."
This happened when Jesus Ascended!
Daniel 7:13-14
13I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.
14 *And there was given him dominion, and glory, and A KINGDOM*
*THAT ALL PEOPLE, NATIONS AND LANGUAGES SHOULD SERVE HIM*
His dominion is an *everlasting dominion* which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.
This is God's Church, comprised of people from every tnation, tribe, people and language, in ONE body, who HAVE been given a Kingdom (Luke 22:29) and who REIGN NOW WITH CHRIST in the Spiritual Realm over *ALL" "dominion, authority and power" that once ruled over us!
Yes, Jesus IS Reigning NOW!
Yes, Jesus IS Reigining from heaven!
Yes, the 'strong man' IS Bound SO THAT he can deceive the nations (gentiles) no more.
Yes, Jesus IS gathering His Elect from the entire world, calling them out of darkness "into his marvelous light" (1 Peter 2:9)
We HAVE been (not will be) "translated into the kingdom of his dear Son" (Colossians 1:13)
And this will continue to happen until JESUS HAS DESTROYED ALL DOMINION, AUTHORITY AND POWER THAT HAVE RULED OVER HIS PEOPLE by THE GOSPEL!
He will NOT stop reigning UNTIL ALL of His Elect are "translated into His Kingdom," in the Spiritual Realm by THE GOSPEL!!
THEN "after the thousand years are fulfilled, satan must be loosed a little season (to deceive the gentiles once again)" Revelation 20:3
*THIS IS THE FALLING AWAY SPOKEN OF IN 2 THESSALONIANS 2!*
But GOD'S PEOPLE, though they continue to grow WITH the weeds on earth, will be safe IN HIS KINGDOM by Faith!
*THEN THE FINAL ENEMY WILL BE DESTROYED AT JESUS' COMING!*
At THAT time, we will get our new bodies and the final enemy will be destroyed completely!
At THAT time, God will "trouble those who trouble You" (His people) AND "give YOU rest." (2 Thessalonians 1)
Hey Rolysantos I’m a postmillinialist. Most if not all modern postmillinialist Christians don’t hold to a future 1000 year golden age. Modern Postmillinialists believe that the millennium started when Christ resurrected, exactly like amil. Postmillinialists have an optimistic view of the future because of chapters like Isaiah 42,Psalms 110, and 1 Corinthians 15. We believe that Christ will be victorious through converting many souls to the gospel. Modern Postmillinialists also interpret revelation and Matthew 24 through a partial preterist lens meaning those prophecies were fulfilled in the destruction of the temple in 70 A.D.. I would suggest watching R.C. Sprouls last days according to Jesus for the preterist view.
@@johnking9161
Thank you john.
I get where you're coming from, I just think Postmil makes a similar mistake as Dispensationalism in regard to scriptures you mentioned.
Dispenstationalists are fond of claiming that they interpet the bible "Literally," while Amils interpret scripture "Spiritually."
The biblical dichotomy is "Earthly/Natural" fulfillment vs "Heavenly/Spiritual fulfillment," BOTH literal.
Paul gives us this dichotomy in 1 Corinthians 15 when he explains how Adam was "of the earth" and Jesus is the man from heaven. "And just as we have borne the image of the earthly man, so shall we bear the image of the heavenly man."
We were literally born children of Adam, fleshly, of the earth.
We will literally be transformed into the image of Jesus, with spiritual bodies, heavenly.
This is why Paul also distinguishes between Israel "after the flesh" and the "Israel of God."
And between "The Jerusalem below" and "The Jerusalem above, which is the mother of us all."
Keep in mind both of these Jerusalems are NOW.
Hebrews 12:22 says "You HAVE come to the ....heavenly Jerusalem."
For instance, in Psalm 42 we read "He will bring justice to the nations."
Does this mean that by the Gospel, more and more will come to faith and that earthly nations will be filled with Christians until all nations are ruled "in the fear of God?" (2 Samuel 23:3)
I don't believe so!
Abraham was told early on that he would be "the father of many nations."
Israel was supposed to be a light for the nations, and attract the nations around them to The Lord.
God gave His word and statutes ONLY to Israel (Psalm 147:19-20)
"He has done this for no other nation; they do not know his laws"
So what happened?
Israel was continually disobedient.
They turned away from God, they killed His prophets, they "brought forth wind."
They were ALL corrupt and "unless The Lord had left (Israel) a remnant, they would have been like Sodom, they would have become like Gomorrah." (Isaiah 1:9, Romans 9:29)
So, the nations (ethnos/gentiles) remained in "darkness" untio Messiah (Isaiah 9:2)
They were allowed "to go their own way" (Acts 14:16)
They were "without hope and without God" (Ephesians 2)
Apart from a few converts to Judaism, the majority of gentiles perished.
Until Jesus!
*HERE IS WHERE JUSTICE IS BROUGHT TO THE "NATIONS"* (Ethnos/Gentiles)
*Satan, "The strong man" had been holding gentiles captive (2 Timothy 2:26)
*But Jesus "Came to set the captives free" (Luke 4)
*We are told in Isaiah 49 that "The servant" (Jesus) who is called "Israel" will restore Jacob (earthly Israel) AND gentiles.
In this chapter Zion laments because she has been forsaken. But God assures her that children well be born to her during her bereavement.
v21:
Then you will say in your heart, ‘Who bore me these?
I was bereaved and barren; I was exiled and rejected.
Who brought these up? was left all alone, but these-where have they come from?’”
The answer is, her children were born by THE GOSPEL!
v24-25:
Can plunder be taken from warriors, or captives be rescued from the fierce?
But this is what the Lord says:
“Yes, captives will be taken from warriors, and plunder retrieved from the fierce;"
This is "the binding of the strong man" (Matthew 12:29)
This is Revelation 20:2 fulfilled. But WHY was Satan bound for 1000 years?
v3
"To keep him from deceiving the *NATIONS* (ethnos/gentiles) anymore, until the thousand years are ended."
THIS IS "justice being brought to the nations" By the GOSPEL!
But again, this means that gentiles (along with Israel who are of the faith of Abraham (Galatians 3))
HAVE BEEN "delivered us from the power of darkness, and HAS translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:"
Paul told us in Ephesians 3 that this "Mystery" "was not made known to people in other generations as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to God’s holy apostles and prophets. This mystery is that through the gospel the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel, members together of one body, and sharers together in the promise in Christ Jesus."
So yes, Jesus IS brining justice to "the nations" (ethnos/gentiles) by the Gospel.
*But that does not translate into the EARTHLY nations being transformed* through the leadership of Christians. I believe this view misses the entire point. The world is STILL "under the control of the evil one" (1 John 5:19)
This will continue to be the case until Jesus destroys His enemies fully and finally!
They are already being rendered powerless (agains the Gospel) and being made His "footstool."
But just our FINAL victory is not evident in the earthly realm until our transformation
so too their FINAL defeat is not evidenct until they are destroyed from the earth.
The earthly nations are and will continue to descend into apostasy at the SAME time that God is redeeming "the nations" and Zion is receiving her children in the HEAVENLY Jerusalem!
So in that very literal sense, the "nations" are being rescued, are receiving justice and ARE victorious!
Remember in Romans 8, Paul juxtaposes EARTHLY suffering and apparent defeat, with the HEAVENLY/SPIRITUAL reality that we ARE "more than conquerers" through Christ Jesus!
I started listening to R.C. Sproul around 2000. Although I don't agree with everything he taught, he was a great man of God. I have listened to "The Last Days According to Jesus."
I DO agree with the partial pretereist view that some prophecies were fulfilled in 70 AD.
The sticking point for me is the part about the Gospel having the wonderful affect ON EARTH that Postmils hold to.
As I mentioned about, I believe scripture teaches that things continue to get WORSE on earth while at the same time God's Kingdom is triumphant, the nations ARE receiving justice and Jesus IS destroying His enemies by THE GOSPEL which renders them powerless to keep His saints bound in darkness.
Or, as Jesus told us in Matthew 13, the tares and the wheat continue to grow TOGETHER until the final harvest!
At THAT time, the final enemy (death) will be destroyed!
While we as Christians are few, and the earth is filled with Apostasy, we ARE yet "more than conquerers" though we are suffering, waiting, "surviving" (1 Thess 4) until Jesus returns and defeats our final enemy by transforming our earthly body.
Sorry for the long post. If I'm still missing something I'm open to hear it.
Again, I just don't see in scripture what the Postmils see regarding the outworking of the triumph of the Gospel and what that looks like.
Thanks for the response.
I just have one question, brother. How can you possibly believe that Satan is bound now?? What was he doing before he was bound? The Lord allowed the gentiles to be reached because Israel was unfaithful. Not because Satan was deceiving them. (Though he has always deceived everyone) Asking this question in love. It truly makes zero sense to me among other things about both amil and postmil.
@@B1rdTheW0rd
Did you read my post?
WHY is Satan bound?
For WHAT purpose?
"That he may deceive the ethnos/gentiles no longer UNTIL the thousand years are over."
What was he doing before he was bound?
Answer: Deceiving the Gentiles!
Although God had a plan to include gentiles ONE day (Genesis 17:14)
That plan was
*NOT MADE KNOWN* to people in other generations as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to God’s holy apostles and prophets. 6 This mystery is that through the gospel the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel, members together of one body, and sharers together in the promise in Christ Jesus." Ephesians 3
Although there were a few converts in the OT, the vast majority of gentiles were
"walking in darkness" (Isaiah 9:2)
They did not have God's law or the "light" of His word (Psalm 147:19-20),
Because God did not give it to them ON PURPOSE! He "overlooked their ignorance" (Acts 17:30)
God "Allowed them to go their own way" (To Perdition) (Acts 14:16).
Before Christ, The Gentiles were "Without hope and without God in the world" (Ephesians 2 and 3).
But you have to remember, God IS sovereign *EVEN OVER MAN'S DISOBEDIENCE*
Remember what Joseph told his brother?
YOU meant it for evil BUT GOD meant it for good!
Remember what God tells the King of Assyria in Isaiah 10?
“Woe to the Assyrian, the rod of MY anger,
in whose hand is the club of MY wrath!
*I SEND HIM* against a godless nation,
*I DISPATCH HIM* against a people who anger me,
to seize loot and snatch plunder, and to trample them down like mud in the streets.
*The King was doing GOD'S WILL!*
And yet, at the SAME time was sinning against God for His evil behavior:
Verse 7:
But this is not what he intends, this is not what he has in mind;
his purpose is to destroy, to put an end to many nations.
*THE KING HAD EVIL MOTIVES AND SO GOD WILL PUNISH HIM*
Verse 12:
" When the Lord has finished all his work against Mount Zion and Jerusalem, he will say,
*I WILL PUNISH THE KING OF ASSYRIA* for the willful pride of his heart and the haughty look in his eyes.
YES, Israel was disobedient even though they DID have God's laws and statutes!
They WERE supposed to be "a light for the gentiles." but they FAILED!
By the way, THIS is the reason why a NEW covenant was needed and did not rely on people
Because "God found FAULT with the people" (Hebrews 8:8)
The NEW covenant relies on GOD HIMSELF placing HIS law in their HEARTS AND MINDS and CAUSING THEM TO FEAR so that they WILL NOT turn away again (Jeremiah 32:40)
*BUT THEIR DISOBEDIENCE WAS PART OF HIS PLAN SO THAT HE COULD BRING THE GENTILES IN TO THE COVENANT*
But in order to do this, Jesus had to "Bind the strong man" (satan) (Matthew 12) who was "holding them captive" (Luke 4, 2 Timothy 2:25)
The way Jesus "bound" the strong man in order "set the captives free" (Luke 4) *IS BY THE LIGHT OF THE GOSPEL*
"The people walking in darkness have seen a great light" (The Light of the Saving Gospel of Jesus Christ!)
Read Isaiah 49 very carefully!
Remember when Paul says in Galatians 3:16:
"The promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. Scripture does not say “and to seeds,” meaning many people, but “and to your seed,” *MEANING ONE PERSON* who is Christ.
Yes, the promises were made to JESUS, the TRUE ISRAEL!
Only IN HIM is ANYONE, Jew OR Gentile "The Israel of God" by faith (Galatians 3 and 6)
In Isaiah 49, God calls "The Servant, Israel" (Jesus) to bring back JACOB (earthly/natural Israel), the "Ones I HAVE KEPT"
(This is the remnant saved by grace because NONE Of them deserved to be saved as Isaiah 1:9 and Romans 9:29 tell us)
"Israel" (Jesus) will also bring in THE GENTILES!
How does He do this?
By taking "plunder from warriors" and "captives from the fierce"
THIS IS the "binding of the strong man" by THE GOSPEL!
Also in Isaiah 49, "Zion" complains that God has forgotten her, but God promises she WILL have children!
These children are born BY THE GOSPEL!
" “Listen to me, my people; hear me, my nation: instruction will go out from me;
my justice will become a light to the nations." (Isaiah 51:4) THIS IS THE GOSPEL!
"Awake, awake, Zion, clothe yourself with strength! Put on your garments of splendor,
Jerusalem, the holy city......How beautiful on the mountains are the feet of those who bring good news," (Isaiah 52)
*THIS IS THE GOSPEL AND THE HEAVENLY ZION WHERE HER CHILDEN ARE BORN INTO* (Hebrews 12:22)
"After he has suffered,
he will see the light of life[d] and be satisfied[e];
by his knowledge[f] my righteous servant will justify many,
and he will bear their iniquities.
12 Therefore I will give him a portion among the great,[g]
and he will divide the spoils with the strong,[h]
because he poured out his life unto death,
and was numbered with the transgressors.
For he bore the sin of many,
and made intercession for the transgressors."
- Isaiah 53
*THIS IS THE GOSPEL*
“Sing, barren woman,
you who never bore a child;
burst into song, shout for joy,
you who were never in labor;
because more are the children of the desolate woman
than of her who has a husband,”
-Isaiah 54
*THIS IS THE GOSPEL AGE WHERE ZION'S CHILDREN ARE BORN INTO HER*
We ARE in the GOSPEL age where Satan IS bound and God IS brining in HIS elect "from the four winds," from "every nation, tribe, people and language," (Revelation 7:9)
*AND SATAN CANNOT PREVENT THE ONES HE HAD TAKEN CAPTIVE FROM THE LIGHT (GOSPEL) SHINING IN THE DARKNESS* (2 Corinthians 4:6)
*SATAN CANNOT PREVENT GOD'S ELECT FROM BEING TRANFERRED OUT OF THE KINGDOM OF DARKNESS AND INTO HIS KINGDOM OF LIGH* (Colossians 1:13)
REMEMBER:
The text does not say that Satan is bound "so that he cannot do evil."
Satan IS a tool in GOD'S sovereign hand and fulfills GOD'S sovereign purpose!
But Satan CANNOT keep God's people from coming out of darkness by the Gospel!
THEN once the last "sheep" has entered into the pen, Satan will be loosed for a little while!
THIS is the "falling away" we read about in 2 Thessalonians when "perilous times" come (2 Timothy 3)
Jesus is on the throne NOW! (Hebrews 8:1)
Jesus HAS received ALL power, authority and A KINGDOM (Daniel 7, Matthew 28)
A Kingdom that we enter NOW once we have believed (Colossians 1:13)
And Jesus MUST REIGN (Present tense) until He makes His enemies a footstool! (1 Corinthians 15:25)
Jesus is in the PROCESS of defeating His enemies BY THE GOSPEL!
And the LAST enemy destroyed will be DEATH when He comes for His people AND takes vengeance on His enemies AT THE SAME TIME (2 Thessalonians 1)
THEN *the Millenium will not be starting it will be ending* because Jesus would have destroyed the LAST enemy, death
(1 Thessalonians4)
At that time "He will hand the kingdom over to the father" (1 Corinthians 15:24)
Sorry my answer is so long but it is required in order to give a right answer.
And I've barely scratched the surface.
@@jesusislord1153
Satan IS bound my friend!
The problem is with your "Literal" vs "Spiritual" interpretation.
The OT fulfillmens of Israel, Jerusalem and the promises were EARTHLY/NATURAL
They Failed! Including The Earthly/Natural Throne of David. Read Psalm 89. It was "cast to the ground."
The NT fulfillments are "Heavenly/Spiritual."
BOTH are Literal!
OT Israel was an Earthly/Natural People.
NT Israel is a Heavenly/Spiritual People,
BY FAITH, Jew AND Gentile!
OT Jerusalem is "In Bondage"
NT Jerusalem is ABOVE and SHE is "The mother of us all" (Galatians 4)
We HAVE come to the New Jerusalem (Hebrews 12:22)
The Israel IN ADAM FAILED!
The Israel IN JESUS will NOT fail because Jesus IS Israel and HE will Gurantee a people for Himself who WILL come to Him (John 6:37) and will NEVER turn away as in the OT.
THIS is the guarantee of the New Covenant
(Read Jeremiah 32:40 and Hebrews 8)
Read Isaiah 49. Jesus IS the true Israel who will bring back "Jacob" "the ones I have kept" (these are the elect among the earthly/national Israel who will be brought to faith (Ezekiel 36, Jeremiah 32:40)
And "Israel" (Jesus) will also bring in the elect GENTILES!
How will He do this?
By THE GOSPEL which is "the power of God unto salvation."
The GOSPEL is what "binds the strong man" and "takes captives from the fierce."
When the Light of God's Gospel shines into our hearts (2 Corinthians 4:4-6) the "captives are set free" (luke 4) and GOD's people who were "held captive" (2 Timothy 2:26) are "Transferred from the kingdom of darkness into the Kingdom of His son" (Colossians 1:13)
Stop looking for earthly things my friend.
They are PAST! And "Shadows" as Hebrews calls them.
The "better things" and "Reality" as Hebrews calls them are HERE!
Remember the promises were made to the "SEED" meaning ONE, JESUS!
Jesus is reigning NOW by The Gospel as 1 Corinthians 15 tells us, and he "Must Reign" (present tense) UNTIL his enemies are made a footstool (By the Gospel!)
The Lord will not bring judgment until ALL of His sheep are brought into the fold by The Gospel! THEN the falling away will happen (2 Thessalonians) when "satan is released for a little while" to deceive the "ethnos" (gentiles) once again.
Used to shy away from eschatology, didn’t think it mattered much compared to things like Christology or soteriology, but lately have really been enjoying studying the different schools of thought. Jonathan Edwards was a Post-mil, so I was tempted to lean that way but Im disposed to Historic Pre-millennialism. We will all have a lot of our theology corrected someday!
Post or per. Millennium. What does that have to do with my salvation . Believe in Lord Jesus Chris. And you will have eternal life. Ether way just live your life as lf Jesus is returning today.
"To show to his servants" refers to the 7 angels of the 7 churches. It refers only to Rev 2 and 3. These are the things to shortly come to pass.
Do I understand it right, that the speakers are a-mills arguing against post-mill? Interesting combi for me as a pre-mill / dispy. 😅 Very weird.
A-mill is the most nonsensical and fits the Bible worst. I will never understand how anyone can take it seriously. Post-mill is much harder to refute. I'm currently collecting arguments and Bible passages.
Does an Amill believe the trib in revelation is future but the kingdom is now?
G.K. Beale does a good job explaining our view that the tribulation runs throughout the church age. The Kingdom is inaguarted now but not yet consummated. ruclips.net/video/ZCpW8Fnd0uQ/видео.html
I was really hoping for some solid arguments from you guys but this was mostly chatter. I just want to hear the facts, reading of the text and why it doesn’t work. But this was a lot of round about. I hear it on both sides though. I just need to get off of RUclips and read it for myself.
I got another headache. Jesus will come when he comes. For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. They forgot ourselves. The great falling away? Look at all the BS were dealing with.
"I do not like the word aiōn"...Why? It's the Greek work for age.
If the kingdom of God and Christ reigning with the saints is only in heaven then what enemies are being defeated through his reign right now? I believe the Bible leaves no room for any rebellion or rebels in heaven right now, so there are no enemies in heaven at the moment that Christ would conquer.
As we read in 1. Corinthians 15, Psalm 110:1 (most quoted Old Testament verse in the new one) and in Isaiah 9:7 the kingdom of God is advancing! The stone which struck down the statue in Daniel’s prophecy grew and became a mountain filling the whole earth (it doesn’t say it grew in heaven and the kingdoms of the statue were very real earthly kingdoms).
Therefore full on amillenialism is not biblical.
Jesus has authority and reign in heaven and on earth (as he says himself)!
Also Matthew 24 is clearly concerning Jerusalem as all the parallel chapters in Luke 21 and Mark 13 indicate and Jesus said that this generation would not pass away until ALL these things have been fulfilled, meaning that the Jews back then would see the fulfillment…
Most of your arguments against postmil are arguments against preterism and/or Doug Wilson’s interpretation of certain passages. As if Doug Wilson is the only reference of what postmillenialists believe…
+ amillenialism denying the earthly reign has a weird gnostic/dualistic vibe to it…
Be blessed! 😊
True
I think if they explain their view of the text that they’re disagreeing with this video might make more sense. You bring up the beast and the false profit, but you don’t talk about who it is from your perspective.
Super graceful and informed answers!
Good work
I hope you’re using the old testament also to corroborate
Josephus Flavius
Ch 5. The Last Siege of the Jews. After Christ
3. But the people of the church in Jerusalem had been commanded by a revelation, vouchsafed to approved men there before the war, to leave the city and to dwell in a certain town of Perea called Pella. And when those that believed in Christ had come there from Jerusalem, then, as if the royal city of the Jews and the whole land of judea were entirely destitute of holy men, the judgment of God at length overtook those who had committed such outrages against Christ and his apostles, and totally destroyed that generation of impious men.
I have to push back! If you take Jesus warning "literally", that they were to flee to the mountains, should you also not take "every eye will see him" literally as well?
And, what about the angels gathering together the elect? Did that happen?
If so, why are Christians still present on earth if the church was raptured then?
If your going to dam a view you should at least represent it correctly or bring one on that represents that view.
Thank you brothers for studying Postmillenarians & critiquing their works for the edification of the church.
Postmillenarians are just weird & naive
Can someone direct me to the video about, understanding Old Testament prophecies. Thank you
The Post position and the pre trib secret rapture positions are equally preposterous and demonstrably false. Classic eisegesis and sophistry of the worst kind. In the Olivet discourse, there are certain events related to AD 70, but to think the book of Revelation is mostly about those events except, of course, chapters 20,21 22 is way off. Doug Wilson is incoherent on many of his views. Sometimes, it is hard to know where he stands on a number of topics. Nice guy, and I'm sure a godly man, but boy, he can be all over the place. Jim White is just looking for new horizons to make himself known and influential. Particularly among the new breed of Hipster Calvinists with their tattoos and youth movement. Durbin is the ring leader.
Guy in the middle talks WAY too fast … like Ben Shapiro. So I slowed the speed down to 75, but the guy on the right (Southern accent)talks too slow, so slowing it down made the Southerner sound “delayed”… like Forest Gump. 😂
Loved this! Made my pre-mil dispensational self giggle hearing A-mills says "Wow, I mean there is symbolic stuff in the bible but gosh, take the text for what it "literally" says." lol
Isn't that what you do on the rest of the 65 books?
Do you not study the Bible and take it lierally?
Do you believe GOD created the Universe in 7 days?
The guy in the middle will be postmil in 5 years.
Why would he be post mill in 5 years?
I am postmil and I listened to this to hear some counter arguments and I have been disappointed. You talked about understanding verses in context and on such a major section like chap 19 of revelation you miss the entire preterist context of the destruction of Jerusalem, symbolically described as Babylon in revelation, happen literally on either side of that passage of the rider on the white horse. The lead up is poetry about how great the destruction was and then right after is the cast of the beast and the false prophet into the lake of fire. Those two were ruling from Babylon, the image is clearly of Jesus coming in judgement over Jerusalem. If you doubt it is Jerusalem just look in 18:24 how it says in the city was found the blood of all the prophets, that is exactly what Jesus says to the priests about Jerusalem right before the olviet discourse. How about at Jesus' trial that the crowd cries out that we have no king but ceasar and then Jesus the real king of kings comes back to judge the city which is not the holy city but the unholy city, their ancient nemesis, Babylon. If you open your eyes to the imagery it is all over the places in making these connections. Yet most of this discussion is not a careful parsing of passages with respect but a large over simplification and quick dismissal fest by people who admit to not even finishing the leading commentary on the topic in which they are criticizing. Clearly this panel did not do postmil believers the decency of trying to truly understand the position, just a half hearted attempt to see what is said but not bother to understand what is being said.
looking for legitimate arguments. heard Zero. not sure these three are qualified for the task.
Post Mill is contrary to so much of Scripture, I question if their motives are pure towards Christ's Church.
I was talking to a leading postmill guy online. He was recommending several postmill books to me. He then warned me that the writers of those books turned hyperpreterist (all prophecy is fulfilled including resurrection) before they died. I feel like there is a major connection.
@@justinjones2160 When Jesus returns at the end of the age (there are only two ages, this age, and the age to come) death will be eliminated through the completion of the First Resurrection. Those guys buried people, and they died themselves, how is it possible they had no eyes to see that? And the entire first creation will be released from its corruption (decay) and animals resurrected (Rom 8:18-23) did they not notice that hasn't happened yet? I question that hyper Preterists even have the gift of the Spirit, as they're so obviously deceived about what the eternal state will be - no evil, no sickness, no death, pure love, as God and the Lamb Himself will be with us in person.
@SB I would never trust a hyper or full preterist. They are called both. Full preterism is heresy. They claim we are in the eternal state now. They claim history just continues on forever. They dont believe history stops as we do. They believe the second coming has already happened.
What specifically?
I'm sorry u haven't gave scripture that lines up with what u believe
Paul said that in his life time, the gospel had been delivered to all the nations (compare Matt 24:14). If you're going to take Paul's word then we should understand it from his perspective and not the 21st century mind. The word "world" in Matt 24 is G3625 which is "oikoumenē" and it doesn't mean the planet, it's the "known world" at the time. Also used by Luke when a tax went out the the whole "world (oikoumenē)", Luk 2:1, And it came to pass in those days, that there went out a decree from Caesar Augustus, that all the world G3625 should be taxed."
Romans 16:25-27 NKJV
Now to Him who is able to establish you according to my gospel and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery kept secret since the world began but now made manifest, and by the prophetic Scriptures made known to all nations, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, for obedience to the faith- to God, alone wise, be glory through Jesus Christ forever. Amen.
Yet, you would say the gospel in the first century had not yet been delivered to the entire "world".
The Postmill and Amill position come unstuck historically as the Early Church writings only give a Premillennial, Posttrib view no other view is given until Augustine came out with his Amil in 400 AD.
This is a massive problem for all Augustinian based churches, for they are unable to verify their origins in Church history.
yeah, Postmill is Amill's more awkward little brother. Amill does the same straining of texts as Postmill does, but just not as much.
A Millennium Puzzle to solve… Will Christ be conducting funeral services for mortals killed in accidents 500 years after His Second Coming?
The “first resurrection” in Rev. chapter 20 is not the first bodily resurrection in the Book of Revelation, because the two witnesses are resurrected from the dead in chapter 11. There are two different types of resurrection in John chapter 5. There is a spiritual resurrection from the dead in John 5:24, and a bodily resurrection from the dead in John 5:28-29.
Does your view of the Millennium agree with what Paul said in 2 Thess. 1:7-10, when Paul said Christ returns in "flaming fire" taking vengeance on those who do not obey the Gospel? The fire comes at the end of Rev. chapter 20.
Does your view agree with what Peter said in 2 Peter 3:10-13, when Peter said this earth is going to burn and "dissolve" when He comes as a thief on the day of the Lord? The fire comes at the end of Rev. chapter 20.
Does your view agree with what Paul said in 2 Tim. 4:1, when Paul said both the living and the dead will be judged at His appearing? The time of the judgment of the dead, with reward for some and destruction for others is found in Rev. 11:18, right after the 7th trumpet, which is the last trumpet in the Bible. (This verse also proves the Book of Rev. is not in chronological order.) The judgment of the dead is also found at the end of Rev. chapter 20.
Does your view agree with what Jesus said in Matt. 25:31-46, where He described the judgment of the sheep and goats, which leaves no mortals alive on the planet at the end of the passage? There are also no mortals left alive on the planet at the end of Rev. chapter 19.
Does your view agree with Peter in 2 Pet. 2:4, and Jude in Jude 1:6, when they both said wicked angels are already in chains of darkness?
Does your view agree with what John recorded in Rev. 9:1-2, when an angel comes down from heaven with a key to unlock the pit, which means the pit was locked before that time? Are there wicked angels already in the pit in Rev. 9:11? John recorded angels already "bound" in Rev. 9:14. The beast "ascends" out of the pit in Rev. chapter 11, which means the beast was in the pit before that time.
Take all of the above and compare it to the symbolic language found in Rev. chapter 20, and the fact the Book of Revelation is not in chronological order, and you will have the truth.
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Multiple Second Coming Visions in Revelation: (book not in chronological order )
Christ returns at the end of Revelation chapter 6, with signs in the sun, moon, and stars, as are found in the Olivet Discourse.
Those at the end of the chapter are hiding from the wrath of the Lamb.
Why would they be hiding if Christ is not present?
The "kings", "captains", "might men", "free", and "bond" are also found in chapter 19 at the return of Christ.
He returns at the 7th trumpet, which is the last trumpet in the Bible, and the time of the judgment of the dead in Revelation 11:15-18.
The beginning of chapter 12 is a history lesson containing the fall of Satan, and the birth and death of Christ, who is the seed promised to crush the head of Satan in Genesis 3:15.
The Second Coming is found in the "harvest" of chapter 14, which is related to the parable of the wheat and tares in Matthew chapter 13.
He comes as a thief at Armageddon, and we find the greatest earthquake in history in chapter 16. This occurs when the 7th angel pours out his vial. How powerful is an earthquake which moves islands and destroys the mountains? What is happening to the planet?
He comes on a horse in chapter 19.
Chapter 20?
Does He come with the fire, and the judgment of the dead at the end of chapter 20, which agrees with what Paul said in 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10, and 2 Timothy 4:1?
(The time of the judgment of the dead is also found in Revelation 11:18.)
There are no mortals left alive on the planet at the end of Matthew 25:31-46.
Why does an angel come down from heaven with a key to unlock the bottomless pit in Revelation 9:1-2, if the pit was not already locked before that time?
Revelation 9:14 proves some of the angels were previously bound in some manner.
Because the two witnesses were bodily resurrected from the dead in Revelation 11, the "first resurrection" at the beginning of Revelation 20 is not the first bodily resurrection in the book.
The principle of "Recapitulation" means there are multiple visions of His return.
@@SpotterVideo It must be understood that Augustine was out of touch with the Early Church writings and that his views were a invention of his own and of his Gnostic background.
Those Church Fathers before him would disagree strongly of his heretical teachings, Augustine a lines himself with the Gnostic, Cerinthus, were he says:
They are not to be heard who assure themselves that there is to be an earthly reign of a thousand years. They think like the heretic Cerinthus. For the kingdom of Christ is already eternal in the saints-even though the glory of the saints shall be manifested after the resurrection. Victorinus (c. 280, W), 7.360; see also 5.147.
This Is were Augustine gets his belief structure from, throughout the early Church writings it is loaded with a millennium week structure that says clearly that Christ will reign physically after the resurrection of the Saints, no other view is given.
@@russelljones2305 I have heard this Augustine argument before. However, one of the Earliest Church Fathers who was a Premillennialist said there were other viewpoints during his time. The main thing is what John, and Paul, and Peter, and Jude, and Jesus said in the rest of the New Testament.
There are no mortals left alive on the planet at the end of Matt. 25:31-46, and there are no mortals left alive on the planet at the end of Rev. chapter 19.
From New World Encyclopedia...
"The early church
Although the term amillennialism, coined sometime in the 1930s, is a new term, its view is never new. The Dutch Reformed amillennialist L. Berkhof correctly observes that this view is "as old as Christianity."[6] It is true that premillennialism in its posttribulational form, known as "chiliasm" (from Greek chilioi, meaning "thousands"), flourished in the first three centuries of the Christian era, during which the Christians generally expected the imminent return of Christ in face of persecutions in the Roman Empire. But, amillennialism also existed side by side. Thus, Justin Martyr (c.100-165), who himself was a premillennialist, referred to the existence of differing views:
I admitted to you formerly, that I and many others are of this opinion [i.e., premillennialism], and [believe] that such will take place, as you assuredly are aware; but, on the other hand, I signified to you that many who belong to the pure and pious faith, and are true Christians, think otherwise.[7]"
@@SpotterVideo I am a where of what Justin said, but I believe it is in reference to this Gnostic heretical teaching as there are other Church Fathers who note the Gnostics rejection of the resurrection and any form of restoration of the earth. Paul and John also challenges these Gnostic heretical teachings that denies the idea of a restored earth and the thought of being judged by Christ at his return.
One conformation is that Augustine stated he used to hold to millennium belief, but he gives no referencing of other Christians believing in a spiritualised millennium reign of Christ on the earth.
Augustine says:
And this opinion would not be objectionable, if it were believed that the joys of the saints in that Sabbath shall be spiritual, and consequent on the presence of God; for I myself, too, once held this opinion. But, as they assert that those who then rise again shall enjoy the leisure of immoderate carnal banquets, furnished with an amount of meat and drink such as not only to shock the feeling of the temperate, but even to surpass the measure of credulity itself, such assertions can be believed only by the carnal. They who do believe them are called by the spiritual Chiliasts, which we may literally reproduce by the name Millenarians.
In Augustine’s writings it is clear that the spiritualising of the Millennium reign of Christ is of his own invention, as theologians who subscribe to his views give no other source to its origins.
I can certainly tell you both postmillenialism and premillennialism are wrong, but in this video, I can't tell if you guys are trying to disprove the postmil position or a partial preterist position. You're talking as though they're the same thing when they're not. You say the amillennialism position is the correct one, yet most in the amill camp, like myself, take a partial preterist position of Revelation and the olivet discourse. I'm amill, just as you guys say you are, but also believe most of revalation has already happened. I think it's quite clear that Revelation was written during the time Nero and the book is using a lot of recapitulation. So not everything before chapter 20 is past but most is. Also, Matthew 24 where you think it's talking about Christ's 2nd coming, going back to the beginning of Matthew 24, it's clear that Jesus is talking about the destruction of the Jewish temple thus ending the Jewish way of things, which did happen in AD 70. You talk a lot about context but completely ignore the context of Matthew 24, in which you have to go back to Matthew 23 to fully understand. The parallel passages in Luke 21 also confirms this context. Apocalyptic language does not always refer to Christ's 2nd coming and looking at context can help you understand what spoken of when the language is used. Yes the portion of Revelation 19 you read is the 2nd coming. But the portion you read from Matthew 24 is not about His 2nd coming. Look at context as you claim to do so well. It's quite obvious .
He picks the weeds first. Think that is a huge part you missed. They grow together and then he picks the weeds first. We will continue to grow until he makes all his ememies a footstool. He will return to a large harvest.
When is this going to happen? Are you asleep or awake to the truth of the World around you?
@@kimmykimko what is the truth to be awake to?
Thank you for your gracious attitude, but I don’t think you’re actually addressing real postmill views of key Scriptural passages and your shocked reactions to your own generalizations of the other side aren’t actually arguments. Please read or watch Kenneth Gentry thoroughly before publicly criticizing this view.
you have huge problems to overcome unless you acknowledge that some things have already occurred. for instance, the fifth man was living at the time of the writing, named by gematria. and you have to explain how christ said he would destroy the temple, as it occurred. then, there are the obvious fulfillments, but you accept the word and deny its power and worship the traditions of men. he has come in power as Elohim, which we ALL ARE and sons of God, never mind your claim that christ was the only begotten. see: psalm 2 and David’s covenant, in which we are all sons and daughters of the most high!
if this is the new covenant, as you say, we all have the law written on our hearts, love God and your neighbor. there is only one God, no matter how you worship Her.
👑
🤍
love,
david
how does postmillenialist explan the 6th seal when 1/3 of population is killed?
Earth in that passage can be translated land. In the OT, the land was a reference to Israel. During the destruction of Jerusalem by Rome approximately 1 million Jews were killed. Their population at the time was 3 million. That is roughly 1/3.
@@justinjones2160 Do you believe that Genesis 6:13 was speaking about "Israel?"
My point is, you can't just say "it meant Israel here... so it must there!"
Context brother!
@@ENDofREGULATION30 I didn't say either way. I was just explaining how a postmillenialist explains the passage.
@@justinjones2160 my apologies! Thanks for clearing that up!
@@ENDofREGULATION30 any time
At Christ’s second coming, this earth and the works that are therein shall be burned!
Our Lord’s coming. The day of the Lord. He will come as lightning!
No that's what the Tribulation is for (to burn it all down). When Christ comes back he will begin to restore the earth back to the garden of Eden like conditions.
@@seanc2788,
The Great Tribulation became fulfilled
prophecy when the armies of Rome came, destroyed Jerusalem, burned the temple, and brought to an end the Jewish economy.
Thousands of unbelieving Jews were killed, but the Christians escaped from that terrible desolation and destruction. “In A.D. 70.”
CHRCK YOUR HISTORY!!!!
CHECK YOUR HISTORY
God did not create denominations. And denominations are NOT going to heaven!
Christ is coming back for only one church “His church.” (ACTS 4:12; ROMANS 16:16; MATTHEW 16:18; EPHESIANS 4:4-6)
@@walterlahaye2128 Actually Christ only comes back when he hears Zechariah 12:10-14 fulfilled. Just as he told us in Matthew 23:39.
Defeatist excuses
This is unbearable. So much mocking. That’s too bad. Your opinion and belief are nullified by your mockery.
The church rapture is at judgement day
John 6 39-54 Jesus says at the Last day four times. Jesus is truth keep the faith
Revelation 21 shows no more days
Lol things better? It’s getting worse.
Technically Christianity has never stopped growing worldwide so that's why they say things are getting better
This is one of the worst criticisms of post millennialists that I have ever heard. They must be completely ignorant of post mill doctrine. They should be ashamed of themselves
Middle guy is annoying i cant listen. If you study all the relevant passages for months, you will be postmill. Mathew 24 is all about ad70. So is revelation. On the last day jesus comes in fire and ends everything. Jesus says noone knows this day, meaning:. No signs!!!!! No prophecies!
I will email you later concerning your Amillenial view. You are making the same mistake as pretribbers in ignoring plain text and legalistically cherry picking verses and using inferences and a play on words to build your doctrine.
In fact, its ironic that you so carefully dispell the errant pretrib doctrine by carefully identifying what plain text states, but when it comes to your own preferred Amillenial doctrine you become a pretribber on steroids, even using bullying tactics like claiming a passage is "extremely strong" evidence, as if to say one would have to be a moron to disagree with you.
Revelation cant be a multi-tiered repeat of the same events. Just like dispensationalists, the Amillenial doctrine can't stand without reading Revelation as a tiered stacking of the same events from different perspectives.
Revelation is chronological. The reason for the confusion is that it includes the great deception of a fslse, technologically enhanced end times scenario followed by the arival of the antichrist and the actual 7 years unfolding of prophesy. Thats why it seems to repeat itself.
The resurrection in ch 20 cannot be a spiritual, 1st century resurrection because it includes they who were beheaded for not taking the mark of the beast in their hands nor forehead. You are forced to make the entire book a book of a non-physical, spiritual series of events, which is a natural domino effect of the rabbit hole you create when you mistranslate 20:4-6.
Furthermore, the physical earthly millenial kingdom comfirms the prophesy of Zechatmriah 14 in which the Lord comes, and the saints with him, destroys the enemies of Israel, then forces the surviving remnant of those nations to trek to Jerusalem annually for the feast of tabernacles for generations to come.
Lastly. Ezekiel 38 is not describing the same war as Rev. 19, but Rev 20 Gog and Magog after the millenial reign. The key is that it says that it will transpire in the latter days "when Israel is living safely in their land", which occurs after the coming of the Lord as depicted in both Zechariah 14 and Rev. 20.
There is nothing new in Revelation. The only thing that is revealed is the timeline of the coming of the Lord once the Antichrist appears. That day and hour that only God knows. Thats why it is called the Revelation.
You only have to read the 1st verse to figure that out.
Revelation 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which "God gave unto him", to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:
God bless
If rev 20 isn’t talking about a spiritual resurrection then how do you explain this verse?
John 5:26-29
[26] For as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son also to have life in himself. [27] And he has given him authority to execute judgment, because he is the Son of Man. [28] Do not marvel at this, for an hour is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear his voice [29] and come out, those who have done good to the 👉resurrection of life, and those who have done evil to the resurrection of judgment.
This is speaking of a spiritual resurrection, is it not?
If we're in the time of triumph then what would the Holocaust be considered?
A setback. A bump in the road.
Flip the script. If we are in continuous decline, then why were the Nazis defeated? Why was Roe overturned? Why is Christianity continuing to spread and grow worldwide? If moments of victory aren't disproof for a theology of overall decline, then why should moments of setback be evidence for a theology of eventual overall victory of the Church over the very gates of hell?
That's why postmil so often warn people not to do newspaper eiesegesis, and instead to stick to scripture for the arguments. One can win the war while losing many battles along the way. See WW2 and the US civil war for examples.