I love most that Klyden says "I must change" rather than "I have changed." He knows that a single apology won't make things right with his child, and a single moment of realization won't overcome a lifetime of indoctrination, but he is willing to try to be better rather than saying that he is now better.
People have no idea how long i waited for it! It always rubbed me the wrong way that Klyden is so clearly depicted as conservative fanatic, when he himself is a victim of moclan culture, since he is a trans man, i always wanted them to show some angle of maybe coping with it by embracing his culture to extreme. I just wrote him off after he left and said what he did to Topa, there shouldn't be returning from it. But they did it. Klyden not accepting Topa forgiveness right off the bat, knowing that she is too vulnerable right now, to make such decision, and telling her that he must be changed, god. And when he invites Grayson to dinner, good god he be reconciling with anyone.
@@weathersama604in "a tale of two topas" they hint at this by having klyden declare that "every child is unhappy". That tella us that he probably went through the same feelings topa had in her childhood, but Klyden had to force himself to overcome that because he had conservative parents and also he didn't know he was born female
The deep breath Bortus takes is powerful af. He hated and resented Klyden for his beliefs and what he did to Topa. And the apology was almost like an apology to Bortus as well.
Peter Macon is a criminally underrated actor. He portrays emotions big and small in incredibly deep and believable ways. His performance has made me cry several times! He has mastered the subtlety of minor facial cues that show complex emotion.
What really sells his redemption is his response to her saying it’s okay. “No it is not.” He knows how bad he was and truly wants to be better. That’s a damn good redemption arc.
Exactly. From her, "it's okay" is her forgiving her father for his mistakes. And the way he says "No it is not" seems like he has thought about it, deeply, and realized how absolutely horrific his words were to his own daughter, and he wants her to know it was never and will never be acceptable. Edit: And as he stated, she was almost lost because of his beliefs and the people that shared them. Which makes him realize how horrific they are, and he has ultimately realized he would rather let them go than lose his child.
@@AguilarSquared Yeah, that entire episode was just awful, along with the lengthy history of transphobic jokes throughout Family Guy... But The Orville kind of helps put him on a better path, just like Klyden.
@@papertigerworkshop1174but are they actualpy phobic? I mean, they make fun of cis white people all the time, it's not like the show is focused against trans people. I think that including them among the various groups that are made fun of is just kinda their way of including them. Maybe it's not fully appreciated, in a similar way to a roast that goes a bit too far, but i woukdn't jump the gun and call it transphobic
What I love about this scene is that Klyden already stepped up by addressing his daughter as "her" when he first entered the room. That's when you know he's willing to make things work.
@D C i don’t believe they went into that kind of detail. I believe the appendage was missing altogether. Hense why when she hatched there was an immediate recognition she was female not male. Then again was never implied either way so who knows.
@D C Even if that was the case, I doubt that last part. If anything, the writers will keep her female and have her join the Union to work on the ship alongside Bortus. Have her be the beacon of light that shines away the dark void that the Moclans bring, and prove that female Moclans can do more than hide away on a separate planet.
@@mrscwchino That's headcanon. The only thing the show shows is that females are much more rare than males, and aren't needed for reproduction. You are correct that she isn't transgender now, but she was for the time she was male.
Yes! Klyden has been a very unlikeable character for quite some time so for the storyline to progress and get the audience to feel so much empathy for a character like Klyden is genius on both the writing and from the actor angle
@@jackwhitbread4583 You feel this much for Klyden exactly because of how unlikeable he's been, and beecause it's clear that he's just now really realizing this.
Don't forget, Klyden was born female. Probably on Moclus and had the surgery... Who told Klyden he was born a she? And why would a Moclan tell Klyden he was born female? Not for Klydens benefit thats for sure. And Klyden was taught, by his peoples values, to hate himself for it. The best he could hope was to go unnoticed and hope no one else would find out while being as Moclan as possible to disperse suspicion... Klyden lived the life Topa would have had. While Klyden did act badly, I can see where it stemmed from. We know Klyden loves Topa, but Klyden feared that what he went through would happen to his daughter and Klydens own issues hadn't been resolved as he hid from them, trying to be as Moclan as possible. In some ways, this isn't about gender. This is about escaping an ideology that teaches you to hate yourself for being born the way you are. The Orville capture this perfectly. Bortas, the one with an open mind. Topa, the one who the subject carries the most impact. And Klyden, the one who walked in Topa's shoes and chose the other route because that's what his culture demanded and he wasn't ready to defy his culture until what he loved more was almost taken away from him.
The best part of this is when topa says "its okay" and klyden says "no, it is not okay" what you were raised to belive, does not make it okay to be a horrible person, and klyden knows that now, he did not ask for forgiveness, he just told his daughter he accepted her
And promised to be better and change, admitting your mistake is the first step and then actually committing to changing is how people actually change. That's what's so amazing about this show, it does character arcs so damn well. This is how people ACTUALLY change in real life, many shows would have done some quick "I'm sorry" "it's ok" *hug* type of thing but this felt real
I’ve noticed from some clips that Klyden can be seen out of their room more too, even talking to some women if I remember correctly. I love watching characters slowly progress, it’s honestly impressive what they did with Klyden on the show
You've also got to understand that Klyden is also a victim. Because all his life he's been told females were inferior and found out he was born female.
And it was done in such a believable way. People like Klyden often don't come around until something catastrophic happens. The thing I love about this show is that things are not black and white or easily wrapped up with a neat little bow. Even the smallest of actions have far-reaching and complex consequences, characters experience growth through tough situations and not just "because the story needs to progress". Also, even the most unlikeable characters have complex personalities and reasons for why they are the way they are that you can't help but respect and understand.
Ben Levan I especially love that, from this point on, it's so clear how happy they are. Every moment Bortus' family is on screen, it's clear that they are working to make things better. The only real scene we get after this of them fighting was when they couldn't figure out how to crack walnuts...and anyone who's tried to crack a walnut knows that they were giving very appropriate reactions.
@@CheshireCat-cm1siNothing brings a family together like tragedy, it's when you need to rely on each other the most and have each other's back. My sister and I weren't especially close as we grew up and barely talked in college and then my mother had to get an emergency surgery and we rallied around her and it made us so much closer
When Bortus closes his eyes and breathes, you can see his shoulders drop. His whole body lets go of the stress he's been holding in for so long. It's a subtle and beautiful bit of acting.
"No. It is not. You... were almost lost. Because of people who believed as I did. I... I... I thought I hated you. But even then, I never wished you harm. I simply... did not know how to live with you. I allowed a lifetime of prejudice to cloud my judgment. That must change. I must change. I want you to know that I accept you, Topa, exactly as you are. And I am proud... to call you my daughter."
Those powerful words need to be broadcast throughout the world. Maybe, just maybe someone will take them to heart and stop fearing for their own femenity or masculinity. 😮😮
I really like how they made you hate Klyden and convinced the audience he was written out of the show, sold by Bortus and Kelly developing chemistry. But in one scene he managed to complete an entire redemption arc, without which, we'd never gotten "HURRAY! HURRAY! HURRAY FOR YOU! HURRRRAYYY!!"
@@victor2641 ' I wish you were never born' it takes a real piece of shit to say that to one's own child. Luckily, that need not be a terminal condition.
He competes his redemption at the end of the episode when he invites Kelly to join them for dinner. He would always ignore Kelly when she was with Bortus since she was female. Bortus even called him out on that once. You can even see Bortus smile at the end when Kelly joins them.
Klyden's whole issue was self hate. Because of what was done to him as a child, and how everything he was feeling conflicted with everything his culture taught.
I never truly hated Klyden, because he is inherently likable. He's good natured, charming, supportive and a loving husband and father. His actors performance also helps a great deal to make him so and they gave him numerous moments to show that off. It's why it's all the more horrible that he let himself descend into bigotry and prejudice and shows that many such people in real life aren't snarling monsters but normal people like any other indoctrinated into cultures of hate.
This was the moment that 110% solidified my belief that not only is this probably one of the best “Trek” shows, it’s also a fantastic show period. This is the kind of thing that needs to be shared, and while I already did it tremendously over these last few years, I’m going to be pushing even harder. This show needs, no DESERVES More attention and accolades.
Klyden is great because he's so weak as a person. He hid behind his prejudices to the point that he made a lot of trouble for people on the basis of them. Seeing him have this moment was powerful because you know that the Klyden from S1 would never, ever have done it
Every other show would have used this position to take extra shots and Klyden, Even the high society of Trek has shown it's petty vengeance, that Klyden needed to be punished for his behavior and shamed. Instead, they show a man, consumed by a lifetime of being taught self hatred, and bigotry. I love that there is nothing about forgiveness, only acceptance and moving forward. Chad L Coleman just destroys you when he admits his weakness and hatred. Peter Macon has a difficult job of displaying his emotions behind a shield of stoic masculinity which you still see cracks forming. It's criminal how under appreciated this show is.
Given his past spitefulness towards her, when he called her back just before she left, you could see she was expecting more of the same from him. Offering to share a meal is definitely a step in the right direction when it comes to changing his ways.
@@bradleyj.fortner2203 After the hugely positive review scores and fan reactions for this season, and D23 (Disney's big expo for announcements of future products and shows/movies) coming up in just a couple of weeks, I'm holding out hope that they announce a renewal then. I believe they only greenlit this season because while the first two seasons were good, they still lacked here and there. The execs likely wanted to see how well a show like this could do before deciding to renew it again.
I like how you can tell really quickly that Kylden has changed, in that he's actually willing to use female pronouns when referring to her. And he did exactly what you're supposed to when apologizing for something so terrible that could have destroyed your relationship with somebody important to you. You don't ask them for forgiveness, you don't try to give excuses or reasons why what you did was reasonable at the time, you just acknowledge that you did something terrible, that you recognize it now as terrible, that you know it hurt them, and that you'll do better going forward, even if you can't undo what you did before. You take responsibility, don't ask for forgiveness, and simply hope that they can find it in themselves to give it to you.
i'd like to think Klyden's coming around, but part of me is a bit jaded and tells me that he may be saying whatever he can so he has a place to go since he'd be totally ostracized by his species due to his mate and their child. believe me, i WANT Klyden to be a good person, but his track record demonstrates that he has a long way to go beyond some tearful words. at the bachelor party at the season finale makes me think that Klyden is maybe trying TOO hard, which as someone who lived with an abusive parent trying to 'be better' is throwing up serious red flags for me. 'See how much i've changed? you'll be so impressed that when i start to backslide, you won't accept it.'
@@achinthmurali5207 Asking for forgiveness is not the same as apologising, depending on the circumstance it can put the onus for solving the hurt on the transgressed rather than the transgressor. Simply apologise and acknowledge the wrong done, why it was done, apologise and commit to becoming better. Forgiveness is the sole right of the person wronged.
@@thomasparkin259 forgiveness doesn’t have to be given yes, but ASKING for forgiveness is by every metric apologizing and taking responsibility because one can only ask for forgiveness if they acknowledge they have done something wrong.
In my opinion they went too far with their whole sexist crap. Tradition my ass. They developed corrective procedures in case a female was born! I bet they’re only a single gender species because they developed tech to do that.
Some people are strong in their beliefs but there is somethings that are too far for some. He isn’t a bad dad just misguided by dogma. If he did watch Rudolph and maybe Dumbo the original animated version and possibly the Secret Garden maybe he would finally see things Boris sees.
Klyden lived the life Topa would have lived. Klyden was born female too so I can’t help but think Klyden knew the life Moclus would have inflicted on his daughter. But when Moclus tried to take away his child, that was to much. Klyden now thinks of a life outside of the rigid dogma of Moclus, not for himself. He lived within the rigid rules of his people. But for his daughter who showed him that living outside of the rules Moclus imposes… isn’t as bad a thing as he was taught when someone from Moclus, probably a nasty piece of work, told Klyden he was born a female.
I'm glad that Klyden's love for his child is far greater than his fear and stigma. And I'm glad that the Commander is the closest thing that Topa has to a mother.
I think he knows how to write a good ensemble show without executive meddling. Deep Space Nine didn’t have to have Sisko as the focus every episode, after all.
I will be honest, I thought there was no hope for Klyden. I believed he was so indoctrinated with his Moclan beliefs that he wouldn’t at least open his mind, especially since he was born female. And it took almost losing his child to make him realize that he was wrong and very sorry for what he said to Topa. Excellent writing and great acting. This episode was emotional, the only Star Trek episode that got me emotional was Nog’s speech in DS9’s It’s Only A Paper Moon.
I think a lot of that hate was directed inwards, he didn't find out he was female until he came to the Orville and I think that was what caused a lot of unhappiness he had in season 1
Klyden saw what the hatred of his people, the hatred he had shared, did to someone he loved. It's his first step to becoming a better man and while he has a long way to go, hopefully he can become that the father that Topa deserves.
I love how klyden doesn't truly ask her for forgiveness. He knows right now he doesn't have that right. He knows that the most important thing right now is for toopa to know that she is loved by both of her parents and that he regrets everything he has done. It's clear he is forgiving later but right now she just needs to know he loves her.
I actually REALLY loved the fact that the first questions he asks are about how Topa is feeling and if they are hurt. That shows immediately where his heart is at. 😢
@@wwalton not even close. DBZA stuck to the parody with minor sprinkles of seriousness, and is a redub. Orville is wholly original, serious story with sprinkles of comedy and parody, then went full on Star Trek.
There's a part of me that thinks that Ty and Topa may wind up as BFFs. Ty looks poised to follow his stepfather into the sciences and Topa feels like a future command potential.
That's the unconditional love of a child for you. She still loved him even when he walked out on her. And she still loved him when he came back, even before he apologized.
@@AvengerBB1 They really made a good decision doing that, since they don't know if there will be more or not, but given how spectacularly well recieved this season has been I'd be surprised if there weren't more
@garthrogers2269 Problem is they're not giving us more episodes right now and that's just upsetting. This would be the _only_ reason I'd subscribe to any streaming service it would air on.
Bortus standing there taking a breath is just such good acting. You can visibly see him relax. You can tell that he is still going to need some time getting over Klydens actions, but maybe things will get better so long as Klyden continues to grow out of his superstitions.
I must say... I never liked Klyden before that scene. But after he finally accepted Topa as SHE was, I was crying... I really hoped for Bortus and Klyden to be reunited btw. Really love that episode!
Whoever wrote this episode (I'm assuming Seth Macfarlane is one of them), I'm REALLY proud that they showed a scene where someone changed his ways for the best. For some reason the way I've seen it in most other movies and TV shows, most characters who are stubborn usually will never realize when they are wrong about anything until it is far too late to fix anything or make anything better (like both the rivaling families in the Romeo and Juliet tragedy).
I went into this show thinking it was gonna be a Star Trek parody of some sort, but I am glad to say this show has an amazing balance of comedy and drama and I became HOOKED. So many unforgettable moments in this show, it is a must watch.
this was such an amazing scene because of just how real it is. Klyden acknowledges that he's a work in progress, knows that it won't be easy to change, but he's determined to overcome a lifetime of prejudice for the love of his daughter. This really comes together later on at dinner when Cmdr. Grayson pops by. Klyden struggles to act graciously with her, despite his prior resentment of the Commander, yet he invites her to dinner with his family anyways because it's what he needs to do to change.
The last second of this scene when Bortus finally breathed and lifted all heavy weight of his shoulder for Klydens redemption and love to his daughter spoke so much.
This was a very genuine scene. Fantastic and tear-jerking. Modern Trek couldn't figure this out with all the cosmic math gobbledegook in the universe. If you wonder where the heart of Star Trek went, they are carrying it on the ORVILLE!
@@williampearson6299 That is what's so great about the Orville, while Ed is the captain he is not the star of the show. He could easily have made himself the main character, but he understood that it was a collective effort and all characters deserve their stories and spotlight.
This show does one of the things the first 3 Star Trek series were known doing for very well: Taking a real world, controversial issue and filtering it slightly through the fantastical so that it can be examined from many different angles without the audience feeling like the show is beating them over the head with it.
100% best redemption story. Heartfelt apology, accepts the blame as entirely his, accepts her for who she is, sets aside a lifetime of prejudice, explains his position and what he's doing to change that all whilst having the knowledge that he was born female too.
I love the show. The writing for the show between Season 1 and Season 3 has gone to another level. This scene and the scenes with Teleya the Krill and the relationship arc between Issac and Charly were some of the best writing I have seen for a long time.
This is such a powerful and emotional scene. I am sure that that tear rolling down the cheek of "Topa" was not fake. The actress playing this role did an excellent job and the actors playing Klyden and Bortis convey such amazing emotions.
Klyden has had such great character development. I love it! He seems happier being back with his family again. 😊 I love how in love he is with Bortus haha it absolutely kills me. 😂
Wow! Some distance covered. But still some very considerable distance yet to go! A child is still a child with responsibility for that reason. Klyden has taken the step that was difficult to do. A parent is still a parent!
I don't know if its the actor or the make-up in this scene, but it just gets me in heart how soft Bortus' eyes are here. He usually has this hard serious look normally. But here you can see the tenderness he has for Topa.
I think he’ll at least learn to live with what he was and become a better person. And knowing that the people he loves forgive him will help him heal too.
I never thought a stark trek knock off written by the family guy dude would make me cry..but boy did this scene get me teary eyed. Klydens serious heart felt apology broke me. Major props to seth and everyone else who worked on this show. It is really somthing spectacular
For Seth to go from writing crappy, transphobic one-liners in family guy, to something as tear-jerking as this is nothing short of incredible. Thank you to mr. McFarlane for putting this out there. The Orville rules. :)
It's almost as if he was never transphobic. Jokes are jokes. You have to learn to take them, just like everyone else, or you will never be accepted as everyone else.
If you can feel what an alien is feeling, then you can feel how your fellow human is feeling. I shit you not I cried my eyes out so fucking much to this. Love yourselves and those you choose to be around unconditionally
I may have been mis-reading the subtext, But I thought alot of Klyden's problems stem from their own trauma in regards to their own past. Klyden grew up in a hurtful society that pointed their hatred/prejudice at Klyden. Everytime Klyden looked at Topa, who was so strong and brave, it reminded Klyden too much of what he went throughof what Klyden wasn't, and the only way to deal with the pain was to project it onto Topa. I absolutely hated the character of Klyden for how they treated a child, let alone their own. I didn't want the character to come back BUT it was a very beautiful and healing moment for Topa's character, who in all honestly, deserves nice things.
I know i am late to the party but Klyden's story progression through the series was extremely well done and subtle. In the first season he didn't want anything to do with the crew of the orville and resented how much time Bortus spent away. You could feel how uncomfortable he was even being around the crew by the end he was making a real effort to be a part of the family Bortus had made for himself and Topa and even invited Kelly to stay for dinner something he NEVER would have done season 1.
I remember the moment Bortus entered the scene I felt this strong resistance to what was going on. "With everything he said and did, he did not deserve to be here. He does not deserve what he has come here to receive." was all I could think. The scene then goes on to step by step lower that resistance until the emotions finally swell and overwhelm and fuck, you can stay strong through it. He's so clearly gone through a transformation of understanding and remorse, which normally would feel cheep off screen but here it feels so effective. It feels real.
And Klyden has now corrected his other, previous mistakes. He couldn't overcome these. Until now! He wants to change. And this is one huge positive first step. 😭 I haven't seen the third season of Orville, but oh my goodness! I want to. Now.
To anyone who is watching this scene and has desperately wanted this kind of apology and acceptance from loved one and never got it, my heart goes out to you and I am truly very sorry. Their inability to understand has absolutely nothing to do with your worth. You deserve love and kindness, and to be seen and heard. The family wanting to do just that is out there, waiting to be found ❤❤
This is one of my favorite scenes in the whole series as a father of a wonderful daughter I really enjo how Klyden came back and made things right. This is an awesome show.
Incredibly realistic. Klyden thought it was a choice between having a Son or a Daughter. Then he realised that it was only ever a choice between having a daughter, and having Topa out of his life completely. Quite a few parents of trans kids go through this process.
@@IchbinX kontext. in der moclanisches geselschaft ist sie als frau exakt das was transmenschen für uns sind. traurig das du diese message als "antitrans" verzerren musst.
It's literally the opposite but ok. Her culture trying to force their idea of gender onto her instead of allowing her to tell them who she is, is what being ANTI-trans is all about. She was assigned male but her gender identity is female.
It's been so long that I can't remember right off hand except the death of spock. Discovery has some great moments because SMG plays emotional moments so well and the fact that she looks like my niece.
Actually I've only ever had a couple Trek episodes hit me anywhere near this hard. Orville is the first one of these shows that purposely kept a bigoted character around just to watch everyone hate him and now 3 seasons in he's finally figured out what a dick he's been. This is a great payoff for 3 years of tension waiting for some sign that Klyden was capable of personal growth. Turns out he was, and the release of tension from this episode is all the better for being so long delayed. Finally we get to really see the spark of goodness that even exists in a person like Klyden. This is superior storytelling to Trek. Trek has never let the tension build up this long. With a very occasional exception in DS9 the characters that explore subjects like bigotry and intolerance are usually one show wonders. This isn't a one off character, this is a central supporting character, that we've watched be awful for a very long time. We know Klyden, we know why he now wants so desperately to change, and above all, we know how very, very far he has to go. That makes it hit much harder. It's just like the famous Nog-Sisko scene hits harder because we know Nog and know this is a big step for him and we understand why Sisko is wary -- because both characters have had time to marinate and have shown us who they were and how they are changing. Trek has almost never had the patience and planning to give us a payoff like this.
@@RabbitShirak oh man! When ever I watch that episode, I almost finished my box of tissues. Especially, the last part when he is alone in his room and playing the flute.
The thing about this entire plot line: it educated those of us who did not understand... I mean we ( I ) sympathised but didn't actually understand. Through some epically good writing and truly superlative acting we were shown. and in all that, in all of that :we had a damn' good laugh, and a cry, a smile and (in my case) an actual shout out. Damn' but this is a good show.
This scene reminds me of many here on earth. So many countries feel so differently over this subject. I can think of one mid eastern country where death is the penalty for change. Other places just cast you out if you are found to be different. Tolerance is a hard lesson to learn and accept. To lose a child you have raised is an eternal pain.
This scene always brings tears to my eyes. My sister, is working on changing her gender to a man. I love him exactly how he is. He has recieved the true support from my family. This scene always reminds me of my dad when he and my brother spoke about his gender correction. My dad accepts him just how he is. ❤
It's character moments like this that show why The Orville not only carries on the spirit of Star Trek, it does it better. The only thing that even compares with its character writing is DS9. This show needs at least 10 seasons. #RenewTheOrville #LongLiveTheOrville
I never had much love for Klyden. I was actually happy when he left the show (albeit only for a few episodes, but I didn’t know that at the time). This scene changed all that. I do love a redemption arc, and this season was full of them. From the possibility of the Krill becoming peaceful, to Charly’s one-tone character becoming one of the great sacrifices, to the Kaylon eventually realising the error of their ways and joining the Union… and Klyden, who has always been dislikable, finally coming around and changing his ways. I REALLY hope they get renewed for another season, if not moreso.
From the moment he showed his hatred and bigotry, right up until this moment, I hated Klyden. I think we all did. It's incredible how his character was redeemed in one short scene, my personal favourite moment is when Topa says it's okay and he replies "No. It is not". He won't allow Topa to forgive him for what he did. Another stand out moment is when he says he must change, not that he has changed. He knows that this won't make up for what he said and did in the past, and doesn't claim that he's already changed, but commits to working towards that change. God, what a show.
I hated klyden for so long, but this part rly made a difference....I still don't like him, but I can't wait to see how he grows and makes it up to his daughter
I’ve been telling people since season 1 that this show was a fucking banger. Season 1 was perfectly fine if you watched it when it first came out. I didn’t know what to expect and really just wanted to see what Seth’s acting was like. It really didn’t disappoint.
The whole Moclan storyline is a surprisingly amazing allegory for queer people in general, but specifically intersex people. I doubt that was the specific intention, but its amazingly poignant, even in all of its sci-finess.
Every scene from this show I've ever watched, Klyden was always rough. Regardless of joy or anger, he presented the same as Moclan culture dictated. But seeing him crack, seeing him breakdown. That hit me in the feels.
"The hardest lesson to learn, as a parent, is to know when you are wrong...And the deepest scar is when your mistake hurts the child you love."
Is that a quote from a book?
@@westhawk7259 not that I'm aware of, I wrote it.
@@raspherion Then why is it in quotation marks?
@@SecretLars make it a quote
@@SecretLars bro literally coined his own quote, that’s why. Now anyone can use it.
I love most that Klyden says "I must change" rather than "I have changed." He knows that a single apology won't make things right with his child, and a single moment of realization won't overcome a lifetime of indoctrination, but he is willing to try to be better rather than saying that he is now better.
People have no idea how long i waited for it! It always rubbed me the wrong way that Klyden is so clearly depicted as conservative fanatic, when he himself is a victim of moclan culture, since he is a trans man, i always wanted them to show some angle of maybe coping with it by embracing his culture to extreme. I just wrote him off after he left and said what he did to Topa, there shouldn't be returning from it. But they did it. Klyden not accepting Topa forgiveness right off the bat, knowing that she is too vulnerable right now, to make such decision, and telling her that he must be changed, god. And when he invites Grayson to dinner, good god he be reconciling with anyone.
@@weathersama604in "a tale of two topas" they hint at this by having klyden declare that "every child is unhappy".
That tella us that he probably went through the same feelings topa had in her childhood, but Klyden had to force himself to overcome that because he had conservative parents and also he didn't know he was born female
Very well stated.
And he’s already showing how he will change and is accepting of her when he says “May I speak with her?”
@@sceetherthenadder not to mention that he was "proud to call [her his] daughter"
The deep breath Bortus takes is powerful af. He hated and resented Klyden for his beliefs and what he did to Topa. And the apology was almost like an apology to Bortus as well.
You can see Bortus's shoulders drop at that moment. His whole body finally lets go of the stress he's been holding in for so long.
Yes, Bortus was like "Ahhh, finally I can rest from this stress at last"
Peter Macon is a criminally underrated actor. He portrays emotions big and small in incredibly deep and believable ways. His performance has made me cry several times! He has mastered the subtlety of minor facial cues that show complex emotion.
What really sells his redemption is his response to her saying it’s okay. “No it is not.” He knows how bad he was and truly wants to be better. That’s a damn good redemption arc.
if only the same could happen with Peter Griffin
Bit of self awareness goes a long way.
Exactly. From her, "it's okay" is her forgiving her father for his mistakes. And the way he says "No it is not" seems like he has thought about it, deeply, and realized how absolutely horrific his words were to his own daughter, and he wants her to know it was never and will never be acceptable.
Edit: And as he stated, she was almost lost because of his beliefs and the people that shared them. Which makes him realize how horrific they are, and he has ultimately realized he would rather let them go than lose his child.
This was very brilliant acting. He really made the sobbing believable as hell.
He’s not fully redeemed, but he’s at the first steps.
Seth earned this moment as a writer and as a director. It’s magical.
Between family guy, American dad, his movies and this, he has proven he isn’t just funny guy
This might be Seth's attempt at an apology after all of the jokes at Ida Quagmire's expense in Family Guy
@@AguilarSquared Yeah, that entire episode was just awful, along with the lengthy history of transphobic jokes throughout Family Guy... But The Orville kind of helps put him on a better path, just like Klyden.
@@papertigerworkshop1174but are they actualpy phobic? I mean, they make fun of cis white people all the time, it's not like the show is focused against trans people. I think that including them among the various groups that are made fun of is just kinda their way of including them. Maybe it's not fully appreciated, in a similar way to a roast that goes a bit too far, but i woukdn't jump the gun and call it transphobic
@@AguilarSquared Seth actually hasn’t written for family guy in YEARS. He hasn’t been responsible since like season 4 or 5.
What I love about this scene is that Klyden already stepped up by addressing his daughter as "her" when he first entered the room. That's when you know he's willing to make things work.
OMG I missed that😭 that adds weight to Bortas’s exhale and reaction
@D C i don’t believe they went into that kind of detail.
I believe the appendage was missing altogether. Hense why when she hatched there was an immediate recognition she was female not male.
Then again was never implied either way so who knows.
"It was at this moment Bortus knew Klyden had changed, and he needed to let him see Topa."
@D C Even if that was the case, I doubt that last part.
If anything, the writers will keep her female and have her join the Union to work on the ship alongside Bortus. Have her be the beacon of light that shines away the dark void that the Moclans bring, and prove that female Moclans can do more than hide away on a separate planet.
@@mrscwchino That's headcanon. The only thing the show shows is that females are much more rare than males, and aren't needed for reproduction. You are correct that she isn't transgender now, but she was for the time she was male.
The fact that KLYDEN was the one who made me cry says a lot about the character progression this show makes
Chad Coleman is a fantastic actor, that he delivered this performance under that prosthetics and makeup is miraculous
and he did the voice of Coach in Left 4 Dead 2
Yes! Klyden has been a very unlikeable character for quite some time so for the storyline to progress and get the audience to feel so much empathy for a character like Klyden is genius on both the writing and from the actor angle
@@jackwhitbread4583 You feel this much for Klyden exactly because of how unlikeable he's been, and beecause it's clear that he's just now really realizing this.
@@swack24 omg really that's great
His love for his child is stronger than his beliefs it took almost losing her to realize he was wrong
It takes a bigger person to swallow their pride.
@@Coyoteprime Agreed.
I agree he felt so much guilt over the way he treated her
Sadly thats ussually what it takes IRL too.
Don't forget, Klyden was born female. Probably on Moclus and had the surgery...
Who told Klyden he was born a she? And why would a Moclan tell Klyden he was born female? Not for Klydens benefit thats for sure. And Klyden was taught, by his peoples values, to hate himself for it. The best he could hope was to go unnoticed and hope no one else would find out while being as Moclan as possible to disperse suspicion...
Klyden lived the life Topa would have had. While Klyden did act badly, I can see where it stemmed from. We know Klyden loves Topa, but Klyden feared that what he went through would happen to his daughter and Klydens own issues hadn't been resolved as he hid from them, trying to be as Moclan as possible.
In some ways, this isn't about gender. This is about escaping an ideology that teaches you to hate yourself for being born the way you are. The Orville capture this perfectly. Bortas, the one with an open mind. Topa, the one who the subject carries the most impact. And Klyden, the one who walked in Topa's shoes and chose the other route because that's what his culture demanded and he wasn't ready to defy his culture until what he loved more was almost taken away from him.
The best part of this is when topa says "its okay" and klyden says "no, it is not okay" what you were raised to belive, does not make it okay to be a horrible person, and klyden knows that now, he did not ask for forgiveness, he just told his daughter he accepted her
And promised to be better and change, admitting your mistake is the first step and then actually committing to changing is how people actually change.
That's what's so amazing about this show, it does character arcs so damn well. This is how people ACTUALLY change in real life, many shows would have done some quick "I'm sorry" "it's ok" *hug* type of thing but this felt real
I love the fact that in later episodes we can see that bortus and klyden have a much healthier relationship
I’ve noticed from some clips that Klyden can be seen out of their room more too, even talking to some women if I remember correctly. I love watching characters slowly progress, it’s honestly impressive what they did with Klyden on the show
It’s such a simple thing but seeing a hardline character admit to being wrong is a very impactful moment
You've also got to understand that Klyden is also a victim. Because all his life he's been told females were inferior and found out he was born female.
@@Quirriff the moment he says "I accept you for who you are" in a way is also him accepting who he is
@@Quirriff Exactly. This is the scene where I started to like Klyden.
And it was done in such a believable way. People like Klyden often don't come around until something catastrophic happens. The thing I love about this show is that things are not black and white or easily wrapped up with a neat little bow. Even the smallest of actions have far-reaching and complex consequences, characters experience growth through tough situations and not just "because the story needs to progress". Also, even the most unlikeable characters have complex personalities and reasons for why they are the way they are that you can't help but respect and understand.
That look on Bortus' face after the apology... Such a clear "thank you" to the gods for opening his mate's eyes.
Ben Levan I especially love that, from this point on, it's so clear how happy they are. Every moment Bortus' family is on screen, it's clear that they are working to make things better. The only real scene we get after this of them fighting was when they couldn't figure out how to crack walnuts...and anyone who's tried to crack a walnut knows that they were giving very appropriate reactions.
@@CheshireCat-cm1siNothing brings a family together like tragedy, it's when you need to rely on each other the most and have each other's back.
My sister and I weren't especially close as we grew up and barely talked in college and then my mother had to get an emergency surgery and we rallied around her and it made us so much closer
When Bortus closes his eyes and breathes, you can see his shoulders drop. His whole body lets go of the stress he's been holding in for so long. It's a subtle and beautiful bit of acting.
"No. It is not. You... were almost lost. Because of people who believed as I did. I... I... I thought I hated you. But even then, I never wished you harm. I simply... did not know how to live with you. I allowed a lifetime of prejudice to cloud my judgment. That must change. I must change. I want you to know that I accept you, Topa, exactly as you are. And I am proud... to call you my daughter."
Those powerful words need to be broadcast throughout the world. Maybe, just maybe someone will take them to heart and stop fearing for their own femenity or masculinity. 😮😮
I really like how they made you hate Klyden and convinced the audience he was written out of the show, sold by Bortus and Kelly developing chemistry. But in one scene he managed to complete an entire redemption arc, without which, we'd never gotten "HURRAY! HURRAY! HURRAY FOR YOU! HURRRRAYYY!!"
Well actually I never did hated him because of well the fact that how long he been told about females and that he was a female in that situation.
@@victor2641 ' I wish you were never born' it takes a real piece of shit to say that to one's own child. Luckily, that need not be a terminal condition.
He competes his redemption at the end of the episode when he invites Kelly to join them for dinner. He would always ignore Kelly when she was with Bortus since she was female. Bortus even called him out on that once. You can even see Bortus smile at the end when Kelly joins them.
Klyden's whole issue was self hate. Because of what was done to him as a child, and how everything he was feeling conflicted with everything his culture taught.
I never truly hated Klyden, because he is inherently likable. He's good natured, charming, supportive and a loving husband and father.
His actors performance also helps a great deal to make him so and they gave him numerous moments to show that off.
It's why it's all the more horrible that he let himself descend into bigotry and prejudice and shows that many such people in real life aren't snarling monsters but normal people like any other indoctrinated into cultures of hate.
This was the moment that 110% solidified my belief that not only is this probably one of the best “Trek” shows, it’s also a fantastic show period. This is the kind of thing that needs to be shared, and while I already did it tremendously over these last few years, I’m going to be pushing even harder. This show needs, no DESERVES More attention and accolades.
Klyden is great because he's so weak as a person. He hid behind his prejudices to the point that he made a lot of trouble for people on the basis of them. Seeing him have this moment was powerful because you know that the Klyden from S1 would never, ever have done it
Every other show would have used this position to take extra shots and Klyden, Even the high society of Trek has shown it's petty vengeance, that Klyden needed to be punished for his behavior and shamed. Instead, they show a man, consumed by a lifetime of being taught self hatred, and bigotry. I love that there is nothing about forgiveness, only acceptance and moving forward.
Chad L Coleman just destroys you when he admits his weakness and hatred. Peter Macon has a difficult job of displaying his emotions behind a shield of stoic masculinity which you still see cracks forming. It's criminal how under appreciated this show is.
Agreed. Orville IS the spiritual continuance of ST, TNG, DS9 and ENT. Not voyager. Voyager was trash.
@@unclejoeoakland I liked voyager, but it has lots of issues. All that you mentioned are still hella better than anything officially trek today.
May I also add that Chad Coleman deserves accolades for his performance as Klyden.
Klyden still has a long way to go, but this, and him allowing Kelly to join them for Dinner, are good steps forward in the right direction
true
Given his past spitefulness towards her, when he called her back just before she left, you could see she was expecting more of the same from him.
Offering to share a meal is definitely a step in the right direction when it comes to changing his ways.
It's unfortunate that we'll most likely never get to see him develop any further. I'll be very surprised if this show comes back for a fourth season.
@@bradleyj.fortner2203 After the hugely positive review scores and fan reactions for this season, and D23 (Disney's big expo for announcements of future products and shows/movies) coming up in just a couple of weeks, I'm holding out hope that they announce a renewal then.
I believe they only greenlit this season because while the first two seasons were good, they still lacked here and there. The execs likely wanted to see how well a show like this could do before deciding to renew it again.
@@BYERE We'll see. I'm not holding MY breath.
I like how you can tell really quickly that Kylden has changed, in that he's actually willing to use female pronouns when referring to her. And he did exactly what you're supposed to when apologizing for something so terrible that could have destroyed your relationship with somebody important to you. You don't ask them for forgiveness, you don't try to give excuses or reasons why what you did was reasonable at the time, you just acknowledge that you did something terrible, that you recognize it now as terrible, that you know it hurt them, and that you'll do better going forward, even if you can't undo what you did before. You take responsibility, don't ask for forgiveness, and simply hope that they can find it in themselves to give it to you.
i'd like to think Klyden's coming around, but part of me is a bit jaded and tells me that he may be saying whatever he can so he has a place to go since he'd be totally ostracized by his species due to his mate and their child. believe me, i WANT Klyden to be a good person, but his track record demonstrates that he has a long way to go beyond some tearful words. at the bachelor party at the season finale makes me think that Klyden is maybe trying TOO hard, which as someone who lived with an abusive parent trying to 'be better' is throwing up serious red flags for me. 'See how much i've changed? you'll be so impressed that when i start to backslide, you won't accept it.'
Wait why shouldn’t you ask for forgiveness? Isn’t that part of taking responsibility?
@@achinthmurali5207 Asking for forgiveness is not the same as apologising, depending on the circumstance it can put the onus for solving the hurt on the transgressed rather than the transgressor.
Simply apologise and acknowledge the wrong done, why it was done, apologise and commit to becoming better.
Forgiveness is the sole right of the person wronged.
@@thomasparkin259 forgiveness doesn’t have to be given yes, but ASKING for forgiveness is by every metric apologizing and taking responsibility because one can only ask for forgiveness if they acknowledge they have done something wrong.
@@dagan2000 I mean Klyden did revoke his Moclan citizenship for Topa, he would not have done that unless he was sure of his love for his child
I never expected this scene. Moclus went too far even for Klyden
In my opinion they went too far with their whole sexist crap.
Tradition my ass. They developed corrective procedures in case a female was born! I bet they’re only a single gender species because they developed tech to do that.
Some people are strong in their beliefs but there is somethings that are too far for some. He isn’t a bad dad just misguided by dogma. If he did watch Rudolph and maybe Dumbo the original animated version and possibly the Secret Garden maybe he would finally see things Boris sees.
@@Coyoteprime Even faith has its limits.
Well more like prejudice than faith.
Klyden lived the life Topa would have lived. Klyden was born female too so I can’t help but think Klyden knew the life Moclus would have inflicted on his daughter.
But when Moclus tried to take away his child, that was to much. Klyden now thinks of a life outside of the rigid dogma of Moclus, not for himself. He lived within the rigid rules of his people. But for his daughter who showed him that living outside of the rules Moclus imposes… isn’t as bad a thing as he was taught when someone from Moclus, probably a nasty piece of work, told Klyden he was born a female.
That final shot with Bortus releasing that heavy sigh, like the weight of the last few years for their family has begun to lessen… I felt that.
I'm glad that Klyden's love for his child is far greater than his fear and stigma. And I'm glad that the Commander is the closest thing that Topa has to a mother.
This episode is one of Kelly's best.
i like that Seth took a back seat in this season letting the secondary characters really shine.
I think he knows how to write a good ensemble show without executive meddling. Deep Space Nine didn’t have to have Sisko as the focus every episode, after all.
Yeah when watching the third season I was like "Man, we haven't really seen much of Ed"
I will be honest, I thought there was no hope for Klyden. I believed he was so indoctrinated with his Moclan beliefs that he wouldn’t at least open his mind, especially since he was born female. And it took almost losing his child to make him realize that he was wrong and very sorry for what he said to Topa. Excellent writing and great acting. This episode was emotional, the only Star Trek episode that got me emotional was Nog’s speech in DS9’s It’s Only A Paper Moon.
I think a lot of that hate was directed inwards, he didn't find out he was female until he came to the Orville and I think that was what caused a lot of unhappiness he had in season 1
Did he tell Topa that he was born female, too?
No, he only told Bortus. I don't think Bortus even told Topa.
Klyden saw what the hatred of his people, the hatred he had shared, did to someone he loved. It's his first step to becoming a better man and while he has a long way to go, hopefully he can become that the father that Topa deserves.
I love how klyden doesn't truly ask her for forgiveness. He knows right now he doesn't have that right. He knows that the most important thing right now is for toopa to know that she is loved by both of her parents and that he regrets everything he has done. It's clear he is forgiving later but right now she just needs to know he loves her.
I actually REALLY loved the fact that the first questions he asks are about how Topa is feeling and if they are hurt. That shows immediately where his heart is at. 😢
And here I was thinking Orville was supposed to be a raunchy comedy parody of Star Trek.
It actually IS Star Trek.
It's like the DBZA of Star Trek
@@wwalton not even close. DBZA stuck to the parody with minor sprinkles of seriousness, and is a redub. Orville is wholly original, serious story with sprinkles of comedy and parody, then went full on Star Trek.
I love Topa. She's such a kind, caring and forgiving soul. 😎
And very Smart
And she has one hell of a papa bear.
There's a part of me that thinks that Ty and Topa may wind up as BFFs. Ty looks poised to follow his stepfather into the sciences and Topa feels like a future command potential.
@@hagamapama I agree, I would love to see Ty and Topa joining the fleet as part of the Orville the next generation
That's the unconditional love of a child for you. She still loved him even when he walked out on her. And she still loved him when he came back, even before he apologized.
Wow this show is so well balanced. Action, comedy and drama are on point! I hope it gets renewed for a fourth season.
Even if it doesn't, I think they've left it in a good spot to end on. Hell, a lot of shows don't even get a legit finale that feels this "complete".
if you want a 4th re watch it on disney plus a bunch
@@AvengerBB1 They really made a good decision doing that, since they don't know if there will be more or not, but given how spectacularly well recieved this season has been I'd be surprised if there weren't more
YES! I want Fourville, I want Moreville!
Put seth MacFarlane in charge of the next star trek show
I BEG you
He kind of is with this one.
@garthrogers2269
Problem is they're not giving us more episodes right now and that's just upsetting.
This would be the _only_ reason I'd subscribe to any streaming service it would air on.
I think this is it man, hopefully we get more episodes
Bortus standing there taking a breath is just such good acting. You can visibly see him relax.
You can tell that he is still going to need some time getting over Klydens actions, but maybe things will get better so long as Klyden continues to grow out of his superstitions.
I must say... I never liked Klyden before that scene. But after he finally accepted Topa as SHE was, I was crying... I really hoped for Bortus and Klyden to be reunited btw. Really love that episode!
This scene had me crying like a baby.
I had to pause it for a minute or two to clear my eyes. Same thing happened at the end of Ghostbusters: Afterlife.
I still tear up every time
I cried pretty hard on my first viewing. As opposed to yelling "Oh F*CK you Klyden" on his last appearance.
Whoever wrote this episode (I'm assuming Seth Macfarlane is one of them), I'm REALLY proud that they showed a scene where someone changed his ways for the best. For some reason the way I've seen it in most other movies and TV shows, most characters who are stubborn usually will never realize when they are wrong about anything until it is far too late to fix anything or make anything better (like both the rivaling families in the Romeo and Juliet tragedy).
1:38 the look on his face when klyden says Her, i think they will be ok in the end.
I went into this show thinking it was gonna be a Star Trek parody of some sort, but I am glad to say this show has an amazing balance of comedy and drama and I became HOOKED. So many unforgettable moments in this show, it is a must watch.
I'm so glad he came around, and realized how lucky he is to have a beautiful daughter like Topa.
Man, Klyden went from being hated to loved.
Horray
this was such an amazing scene because of just how real it is. Klyden acknowledges that he's a work in progress, knows that it won't be easy to change, but he's determined to overcome a lifetime of prejudice for the love of his daughter.
This really comes together later on at dinner when Cmdr. Grayson pops by. Klyden struggles to act graciously with her, despite his prior resentment of the Commander, yet he invites her to dinner with his family anyways because it's what he needs to do to change.
If you watch that dinner scene closely, you will see Klyden smiling as they all eat together.
I love The Orville. The character arcs and how much they've grown and how emotional it can be. Overall it's probably one of my favorite shows ever.
The last second of this scene when Bortus finally breathed and lifted all heavy weight of his shoulder for Klydens redemption and love to his daughter spoke so much.
I love how raw and real this was. No quick fix, but full disclosure and a desire to change.
This was a very genuine scene. Fantastic and tear-jerking. Modern Trek couldn't figure this out with all the cosmic math gobbledegook in the universe. If you wonder where the heart of Star Trek went, they are carrying it on the ORVILLE!
But notice how Seth McFarland wrote himself out of most episodes this season and was background fodder because his own story is generic?
@@williampearson6299 he still has a great story with anaya.
@@williampearson6299 That is what's so great about the Orville, while Ed is the captain he is not the star of the show. He could easily have made himself the main character, but he understood that it was a collective effort and all characters deserve their stories and spotlight.
@@jackwhitbread4583 Ed has the most boring conflict
@@williampearson6299 He's certainly become a much better writer over the years and is clearly listening to feedback
This show does one of the things the first 3 Star Trek series were known doing for very well: Taking a real world, controversial issue and filtering it slightly through the fantastical so that it can be examined from many different angles without the audience feeling like the show is beating them over the head with it.
100% best redemption story. Heartfelt apology, accepts the blame as entirely his, accepts her for who she is, sets aside a lifetime of prejudice, explains his position and what he's doing to change that all whilst having the knowledge that he was born female too.
I love the show. The writing for the show between Season 1 and Season 3 has gone to another level. This scene and the scenes with Teleya the Krill and the relationship arc between Issac and Charly were some of the best writing I have seen for a long time.
the writing in this show and the story lines are PURE GENIUS!
This is such a powerful and emotional scene. I am sure that that tear rolling down the cheek of "Topa" was not fake. The actress playing this role did an excellent job and the actors playing Klyden and Bortis convey such amazing emotions.
Klyden has had such great character development. I love it! He seems happier being back with his family again. 😊 I love how in love he is with Bortus haha it absolutely kills me. 😂
The writing in this show has no right to be this good.
Wow! Some distance covered. But still some very considerable distance yet to go! A child is still a child with responsibility for that reason. Klyden has taken the step that was difficult to do. A parent is still a parent!
I don't know if its the actor or the make-up in this scene, but it just gets me in heart how soft Bortus' eyes are here. He usually has this hard serious look normally. But here you can see the tenderness he has for Topa.
2:55: Damn. That line really hit me in the feels!
2:40 for me. When she says, "Its okay, I understand." And Klyden response "No, it is not".
@@wjrneo2 I know what you mean. Topa forgives Klyden, but he will never forgive himself. You hear it in his voice.
I think he’ll at least learn to live with what he was and become a better person. And knowing that the people he loves forgive him will help him heal too.
I never thought a stark trek knock off written by the family guy dude would make me cry..but boy did this scene get me teary eyed. Klydens serious heart felt apology broke me. Major props to seth and everyone else who worked on this show. It is really somthing spectacular
For Seth to go from writing crappy, transphobic one-liners in family guy, to something as tear-jerking as this is nothing short of incredible. Thank you to mr. McFarlane for putting this out there. The Orville rules. :)
It's almost as if he was never transphobic. Jokes are jokes. You have to learn to take them, just like everyone else, or you will never be accepted as everyone else.
Seth actually hasn’t wrote for family guy since around 2011 and he doesn’t even care about family guy anymore you can tell he actually loves this show
@@Galkatokk To claim that a joke can never be racist, sexist, homophobic, or transphobic is ridiculous.
@@lizd2943congratulations on missing his point completely.
@@Calluma96 Congratulations on writing a meaningless comment.
Klyden showing the willingness to put aside his former beliefs for the sake of his child is an awesome piece of character development
See kids you can’t get your parents back together all it takes is getting tortured. So don’t be selfish children of divorce
trying not to cry, trying not to cry...
_yeah, I'm crying, this got me tearful as fuck_
~slides box of tissues over~
Just when you think you can watch it and not have a reaction....
If you can feel what an alien is feeling, then you can feel how your fellow human is feeling. I shit you not I cried my eyes out so fucking much to this. Love yourselves and those you choose to be around unconditionally
The fact that this is the same actor who plays Cutty in the wire blows my mind
I may have been mis-reading the subtext, But I thought alot of Klyden's problems stem from their own trauma in regards to their own past.
Klyden grew up in a hurtful society that pointed their hatred/prejudice at Klyden.
Everytime Klyden looked at Topa, who was so strong and brave, it reminded Klyden too much of what he went throughof what Klyden wasn't, and the only way to deal with the pain was to project it onto Topa.
I absolutely hated the character of Klyden for how they treated a child, let alone their own.
I didn't want the character to come back BUT it was a very beautiful and healing moment for Topa's character, who in all honestly, deserves nice things.
I know i am late to the party but Klyden's story progression through the series was extremely well done and subtle. In the first season he didn't want anything to do with the crew of the orville and resented how much time Bortus spent away. You could feel how uncomfortable he was even being around the crew by the end he was making a real effort to be a part of the family Bortus had made for himself and Topa and even invited Kelly to stay for dinner something he NEVER would have done season 1.
Thank Seth we had this until Strange New Worlds & Lower Decks really popped off. He kept the spirit of Star Trek alive!
This is how you handle this type of topic without being preachy
As corny as this show is at times, this is one of the most beautiful scenes, sci-fi or otherwise. Makes me verklempt every time!
you can’t prioritize your prejudice when it hurts your child
To be honest I despised Klyden until this scene. Now I don't despise him as much.
I remember the moment Bortus entered the scene I felt this strong resistance to what was going on. "With everything he said and did, he did not deserve to be here. He does not deserve what he has come here to receive." was all I could think.
The scene then goes on to step by step lower that resistance until the emotions finally swell and overwhelm and fuck, you can stay strong through it.
He's so clearly gone through a transformation of understanding and remorse, which normally would feel cheep off screen but here it feels so effective. It feels real.
And Klyden has now corrected his other, previous mistakes. He couldn't overcome these. Until now! He wants to change. And this is one huge positive first step. 😭 I haven't seen the third season of Orville, but oh my goodness! I want to. Now.
To anyone who is watching this scene and has desperately wanted this kind of apology and acceptance from loved one and never got it, my heart goes out to you and I am truly very sorry. Their inability to understand has absolutely nothing to do with your worth. You deserve love and kindness, and to be seen and heard. The family wanting to do just that is out there, waiting to be found ❤❤
I hate how the dude that made family guy managed to make a star trek parody with terrible make up costumes and make me cry.
I’m not crying…you’re crying!
This is one of my favorite scenes in the whole series as a father of a wonderful daughter I really enjo how Klyden came back and made things right. This is an awesome show.
Damn the actor who plays Kylden really really sent it home on this scene
The moment at the end when you can see the weight lifted from Bortus when he sees that his family will heal is powerful.
Just got done watching all seasons of the orville and I have to say this deserves more seasons.
Incredibly realistic. Klyden thought it was a choice between having a Son or a Daughter. Then he realised that it was only ever a choice between having a daughter, and having Topa out of his life completely. Quite a few parents of trans kids go through this process.
This, to me, was one of the most powerful episodes of 'The Orville '❤
I literally cried for 15 minutes.
Love is so beautiful and is all we have to combat loneliness.
I am not trans or intersex, my situation is not the same, yet i FELT this scene.
This episode was beautifully ANTI-trans. I love it.
nicht wirklich. aber niedlich zu sehen wie dein hass deine realität formt...
@@peaveyst7 A culture is trying to change her into something she naturally isnt.
@@IchbinX kontext. in der moclanisches geselschaft ist sie als frau exakt das was transmenschen für uns sind. traurig das du diese message als "antitrans" verzerren musst.
It's literally the opposite but ok. Her culture trying to force their idea of gender onto her instead of allowing her to tell them who she is, is what being ANTI-trans is all about. She was assigned male but her gender identity is female.
This scene made me tear up more than when Bortus addressed the council. Klyden's redemption was simply perfect. T_T
Remember when Star Trek would make you cry with episodes like this!
It's been so long that I can't remember right off hand except the death of spock. Discovery has some great moments because SMG plays emotional moments so well and the fact that she looks like my niece.
@@warrenreid6109 SMG? Soniqua Martin Green? Why the abbreviations?
Actually I've only ever had a couple Trek episodes hit me anywhere near this hard.
Orville is the first one of these shows that purposely kept a bigoted character around just to watch everyone hate him and now 3 seasons in he's finally figured out what a dick he's been. This is a great payoff for 3 years of tension waiting for some sign that Klyden was capable of personal growth. Turns out he was, and the release of tension from this episode is all the better for being so long delayed. Finally we get to really see the spark of goodness that even exists in a person like Klyden.
This is superior storytelling to Trek. Trek has never let the tension build up this long. With a very occasional exception in DS9 the characters that explore subjects like bigotry and intolerance are usually one show wonders. This isn't a one off character, this is a central supporting character, that we've watched be awful for a very long time. We know Klyden, we know why he now wants so desperately to change, and above all, we know how very, very far he has to go. That makes it hit much harder.
It's just like the famous Nog-Sisko scene hits harder because we know Nog and know this is a big step for him and we understand why Sisko is wary -- because both characters have had time to marinate and have shown us who they were and how they are changing. Trek has almost never had the patience and planning to give us a payoff like this.
@@hagamapama the TNG episode where Picard lives his entire life on an alien planet is a really emotional. Especially the flute song at the end.
@@RabbitShirak oh man!
When ever I watch that episode, I almost finished my box of tissues.
Especially, the last part when he is alone in his room and playing the flute.
I couldn't stop from crying when I watched this episode.
The thing about this entire plot line: it educated those of us who did not understand... I mean we ( I ) sympathised but didn't actually understand. Through some epically good writing and truly superlative acting we were shown.
and in all that, in all of that :we had a damn' good laugh, and a cry, a smile and (in my case) an actual shout out.
Damn' but this is a good show.
This scene reminds me of many here on earth. So many countries feel so differently over this subject. I can think of one mid eastern country where death is the penalty for change. Other places just cast you out if you are found to be different. Tolerance is a hard lesson to learn and accept. To lose a child you have raised is an eternal pain.
This scene always brings tears to my eyes. My sister, is working on changing her gender to a man. I love him exactly how he is. He has recieved the true support from my family. This scene always reminds me of my dad when he and my brother spoke about his gender correction. My dad accepts him just how he is. ❤
Quite a reconciliation 😢. So beautifully designed.
It's character moments like this that show why The Orville not only carries on the spirit of Star Trek, it does it better. The only thing that even compares with its character writing is DS9. This show needs at least 10 seasons. #RenewTheOrville #LongLiveTheOrville
If you told me the guy behind family guy is the reason this scene exists I’d call you a liar but god damn is this good writing
I never had much love for Klyden. I was actually happy when he left the show (albeit only for a few episodes, but I didn’t know that at the time).
This scene changed all that.
I do love a redemption arc, and this season was full of them. From the possibility of the Krill becoming peaceful, to Charly’s one-tone character becoming one of the great sacrifices, to the Kaylon eventually realising the error of their ways and joining the Union… and Klyden, who has always been dislikable, finally coming around and changing his ways.
I REALLY hope they get renewed for another season, if not moreso.
These two dads are probably the most interesting Seth Macfarlane characters.
I'm crying. Never seen an episode. But still crying.
From the moment he showed his hatred and bigotry, right up until this moment, I hated Klyden. I think we all did. It's incredible how his character was redeemed in one short scene, my personal favourite moment is when Topa says it's okay and he replies "No. It is not". He won't allow Topa to forgive him for what he did. Another stand out moment is when he says he must change, not that he has changed. He knows that this won't make up for what he said and did in the past, and doesn't claim that he's already changed, but commits to working towards that change. God, what a show.
The fact that one of the first things Klyden did was use Topa's correct pronouns told us everything we need to know about why he came back.
I hated klyden for so long, but this part rly made a difference....I still don't like him, but I can't wait to see how he grows and makes it up to his daughter
The part i love is that both parents renounce their citizenship.
I’ve been telling people since season 1 that this show was a fucking banger.
Season 1 was perfectly fine if you watched it when it first came out.
I didn’t know what to expect and really just wanted to see what Seth’s acting was like.
It really didn’t disappoint.
And the award for most supportive parents goes to…Bortus and Klyden!
The whole Moclan storyline is a surprisingly amazing allegory for queer people in general, but specifically intersex people.
I doubt that was the specific intention, but its amazingly poignant, even in all of its sci-finess.
I’m glad acceptance was found. Shows you can indeed grow wiser from mistakes if you learn from them.
I know I did. Still am
Every scene from this show I've ever watched, Klyden was always rough. Regardless of joy or anger, he presented the same as Moclan culture dictated. But seeing him crack, seeing him breakdown. That hit me in the feels.