Not nearly enough mongol tactics due to not having 11 bow cavalry and 2 yari cavalry. But game mechanics are what it is. A balanced army is still needed.
If Bow Cav could shoot on a wider arc they would be a lot more useful. If you use "Guard Mode" your lads will be easier to pull out of melee. I deploy it on all of my ranged units.
@@dishonorable_daimyo1498 I never recall mounted archers being OP in R1 or M2, and lowering their rate of shot/damage/accuracy/ammo pool a bit to compensate. Besides, S2 also has Donderbus Cav, so letting mounted bowmen shoot directions other than forward won't exactly break the imbalance any worse than it already is :P.
@@demomanchaos Making a unit overpowered because another unit is overpowered is never a good idea. Mounted archers in the older titles could perform Parthian shot, which was ludicrous since the only way to counter was to bring your own mounted archers. Anti-cavalry units were also quite bad at being anti-cavalry on top of that (somewhat fixed in Med2 Kingdoms). An important characteristic of ranged units is that they are poor in melee; putting them on horseback so that they can fire without being caught goes against the rock-paper-scissors dynamic.
@@dishonorable_daimyo1498 You forget about Testudo, foot archers, and the fact almost none of the mounted archers had decent DPS. R1 had better anti-cav than M2, as the phalanx troops worked a LOT better than the pikes in M2. Like I said though, if they really imbalance things lowering their accuracy/speed/damage/etc would be enough to bring them back into the power curve. I do a lot of S2 modding so I am pretty familiar with the core systems in place (But sadly I cannot sort out how to give them the full circle they get from Swooping Crane as their default, nor have I been able to fix Fire by Rank's nonsensical delays). There are a lot of ways to bring things back in line.
@@demomanchaos DPS for mounted archers is trivial when with just decent micro they may never be caught the whole fight. Look at any competitive Shogun 2 match and despite the low DPS of Bow Cavalry, they constantly dictate the pace of fights, and can even make a fight unloseable if they survive to the end but your opponent has no cavalry of their own, or Fire Rockets. Testudo is a formation that most units don't have access to, and no decent player will pit mounted archers in a missile duel with foot archers; the whole point of mounted archers is to apply pressure and control the fight, to engineer favorable fights for your melee cavalry and mainline infantry. The video we're commenting on perfectly demonstrates just how much of an impact they can have even with their low DPS. Also on missile duels: mounted archers, at least in Shogun 2, can quite easily dodge volleys from foot archers, with the added benefit of exhausting enemy ammunition. I'm glad they chose not to give full circle to mounted archers in Shogun 2, that way they require plenty of micro as they should. I don't know what you mean by bringing things back in line, because as far as Bow Cavalry go, they work perfectly fine in the confines of the game, whereas Mounted Gunners and Donderbuss do need nerfs (only allowing the first rank to fire, for example). You seem to underestimate how much a few stat tweaks can radically alter the balance of the game. Look at how Darthmod broke Matchlocks by increasing their range to 150 (all based on the misconception that guns are bad in field battles, lol). That should give you an idea of how full-circle fire could and likely would warp the balance; and even if you enabled this but nerfed their DPS further, that can be easily countered by enabling Skirmish Mode, as there would be less need to issue direct orders to the unit.
you can actually 1v1 a bow sam with a bow cav. you hstretch them in a single or double line , aproach the bow sam , get a shot and retreat 30m. before bow sam's arows land , rinse , repeat
Pulling apart ai formations with bow cavalry and then enveloping pursuing units with a detachment of yari sam and some melee cav is dirty. I'll have to bring bow cav in my next campaign to help disassemble some of those nasty ikko ikki stacks. Thanks for showcasing the strategy. I wonder if it's possible to break a unit lured by the bow cav by hitting it with a matchlock ranked fire volley and then a quick charge. That should increase morale shock and reduce friendly fire (probably only useful early in the order of battle).
Not nearly enough mongol tactics due to not having 11 bow cavalry and 2 yari cavalry. But game mechanics are what it is. A balanced army is still needed.
Yeah I was trying to keep it realistic to what you can get in campaign and MP. I might save that for a meme video lol
@@dishonorable_daimyo1498 All bow cav doomstack is very viable against ai armies that doesn't have more than 4 missile units.
GG, not only have you found a use for bow cav but also yari sam. Good vid thx.
If Bow Cav could shoot on a wider arc they would be a lot more useful.
If you use "Guard Mode" your lads will be easier to pull out of melee. I deploy it on all of my ranged units.
They are fine as is. Bow cavalry need to be difficult to use or they risk becoming overpowered. Medieval 2 is an example of that.
@@dishonorable_daimyo1498 I never recall mounted archers being OP in R1 or M2, and lowering their rate of shot/damage/accuracy/ammo pool a bit to compensate. Besides, S2 also has Donderbus Cav, so letting mounted bowmen shoot directions other than forward won't exactly break the imbalance any worse than it already is :P.
@@demomanchaos Making a unit overpowered because another unit is overpowered is never a good idea.
Mounted archers in the older titles could perform Parthian shot, which was ludicrous since the only way to counter was to bring your own mounted archers. Anti-cavalry units were also quite bad at being anti-cavalry on top of that (somewhat fixed in Med2 Kingdoms).
An important characteristic of ranged units is that they are poor in melee; putting them on horseback so that they can fire without being caught goes against the rock-paper-scissors dynamic.
@@dishonorable_daimyo1498 You forget about Testudo, foot archers, and the fact almost none of the mounted archers had decent DPS. R1 had better anti-cav than M2, as the phalanx troops worked a LOT better than the pikes in M2.
Like I said though, if they really imbalance things lowering their accuracy/speed/damage/etc would be enough to bring them back into the power curve. I do a lot of S2 modding so I am pretty familiar with the core systems in place (But sadly I cannot sort out how to give them the full circle they get from Swooping Crane as their default, nor have I been able to fix Fire by Rank's nonsensical delays). There are a lot of ways to bring things back in line.
@@demomanchaos DPS for mounted archers is trivial when with just decent micro they may never be caught the whole fight. Look at any competitive Shogun 2 match and despite the low DPS of Bow Cavalry, they constantly dictate the pace of fights, and can even make a fight unloseable if they survive to the end but your opponent has no cavalry of their own, or Fire Rockets.
Testudo is a formation that most units don't have access to, and no decent player will pit mounted archers in a missile duel with foot archers; the whole point of mounted archers is to apply pressure and control the fight, to engineer favorable fights for your melee cavalry and mainline infantry. The video we're commenting on perfectly demonstrates just how much of an impact they can have even with their low DPS. Also on missile duels: mounted archers, at least in Shogun 2, can quite easily dodge volleys from foot archers, with the added benefit of exhausting enemy ammunition.
I'm glad they chose not to give full circle to mounted archers in Shogun 2, that way they require plenty of micro as they should. I don't know what you mean by bringing things back in line, because as far as Bow Cavalry go, they work perfectly fine in the confines of the game, whereas Mounted Gunners and Donderbuss do need nerfs (only allowing the first rank to fire, for example).
You seem to underestimate how much a few stat tweaks can radically alter the balance of the game. Look at how Darthmod broke Matchlocks by increasing their range to 150 (all based on the misconception that guns are bad in field battles, lol). That should give you an idea of how full-circle fire could and likely would warp the balance; and even if you enabled this but nerfed their DPS further, that can be easily countered by enabling Skirmish Mode, as there would be less need to issue direct orders to the unit.
you can actually 1v1 a bow sam with a bow cav. you hstretch them in a single or double line , aproach the bow sam , get a shot and retreat 30m. before bow sam's arows land , rinse , repeat
Pulling apart ai formations with bow cavalry and then enveloping pursuing units with a detachment of yari sam and some melee cav is dirty. I'll have to bring bow cav in my next campaign to help disassemble some of those nasty ikko ikki stacks. Thanks for showcasing the strategy. I wonder if it's possible to break a unit lured by the bow cav by hitting it with a matchlock ranked fire volley and then a quick charge. That should increase morale shock and reduce friendly fire (probably only useful early in the order of battle).
Does this work in fall of the samurai too?
Хороший видос. Gl hf
I don't understand this but thanks anyway :))