Just want to say I'm really happy to see the re-emergence of historic pre-mill. Hopefully more people will discover historic pre-mill and we can stop being conflated with Dispensationalists in lectures and debates. XD
The only issue I have with this explanation of historic premillennialism is what I perceive to be the inclusion of Replacement Theology. The New Covenant was made with Israel and Judah, Gentiles being grafted in
@@MrAOdom1966honestly, I don’t think he is saying that as he does point out that everyone must come to salvation the same way… the cross… by grace. This is for corporate Israel as well as the Gentiles grafted into the vine. Both of which have the same root being Christ.
@@MrAOdom1966 One of the biggest failures of Dispensational Futurism is their belief that there are 7-years left on God's Prophetic calendar for the Jews, specifically. It's a fallacious presupposition of a "gap theory' between the 69th and 70th weeks of Dan. 9:24-27.
I am still Dispy Pre-mil, because the Bible has a lot to say about the present and future spiritual state of the Jews. Jesus and Paul said there would be a great revival amoung the Jews prior to Christ's return "you will not see me again until you say blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord" Matthew 25. On the flip side, many Jews will be decieved by the Antichrist and the Antichrist will himself be a Jew as he masquerades as the long awaited messiah. Check out A.W. Pink's "The Antichrist".
@@sanders194539 The Book of Galatians chapter 3 to 4 is a good place to start , concerning this topic , Galatians 3:16, & 3:26-29 KJV we see how the promises and the Blessings of Abraham which Dispensationalists claim is strictly & only applies too the zionist state of Israel and for the Jews, is actually for Christians those in Christ, the church , in Galatians 4:22-26 we see again how the physical descendants if they are not saved "Christ rejecting Jews" they are actually of the bond women and the Blessings don't apply to them, which is again the opposite of what Dispensationalism teaches, But he is a Jew which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God Romans 2:29 KJV Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all of Israel, which are of Israel Romans 9:6 KJV The pope is the Antichrist another obvious truth not taught in Dispensationalism .
I am actually an anti-Zionist, and yes pre-mil dispy has been almost completely discredited by Zionism, but a careful study of scripture reveals a more nuanced view of Israel. The Pope cannot be the Antichrist, because he has never presented himself as God, he is called the vichar of christ but he has never been said to be God (2 thessalonians). Also, the Antichist will be a Jew, whereas the pope has never been jewish (Ezekiel 21:25-27). I enchourage you to read A.W. Pinks "the Antichrist" he sites many other scriptures refuting the idea of the pope being th antichrist. The Greek word used for the antichrist is psuedo meaning "in place of Christ" or one who masquerqdes as christ. In Matthew 12 Jesus told some Jews "i come in my fathers name and ye recieve me not in another comes in his own name him you shall recieve" the him and his pronouns are singular and refer to the Jews embracing the antichrist. Romans 11 tells of a partial hardening of Israel "until the fullness of the gentiles has come in", and then there will thereafter be a revival in national ethnic Israel. The 144,000 and the two witnesses conducting their ministry in Jerusalem demonstrates a future revival in Israel. Jews were both the principle enemies and followers of Christ in his first coming, so shall they be when He comes again, some apostate, some disciples.
Wow! I just had that thought come to me here recently within having heard anyone ever tell it to me. I just gave this to someone a little earlier: As puzzling as the premillennial view is about Satan having an innumerable amount of wicked people to gather together for his army after he is released for a short while after having been bound for a 1000 years, whether it's a literal or figurative 1000 years, I have never heard anyone who doesn't believe in premillennialism give a good argument for what they think it means. I've heard the preterest and ammillenial view of it and there's no way to prove that's what it means. Any views I've heard leaves us with questions and with no way to prove everything according to that view. We always seem to have to speculate on certain verses or spiritualize, or allegorize, or use our imagination, or something. One possibility if the premillennial view is correct is that the ones that the devil is going to gather together for his army will be the wicked who are resurrected for damnation. They could be resurrected and put back on earth, since that's where Jesus' throne will be. And when they compass the beloved city where the LORD is, He judges them and casts them into the lake of fire.
I'm saved and living my life like my great great grandchildren will be preaching the gospel. If I'm wrong then I'm cool with that too. There have been pre-mil folks for almost 2000 years.
Irenaeus, Against Heresies, Book 5, Ch. 5, presents some pretty strong pretribulational material. See also Book 5, Ch. XXIX, section 1: "And therefore, when in the end the Church shall be suddenly caught up from this, it is said, 'There shall be tribulation such as has not been since the beginning, neither shall be.' (Mat 24:21) For this is the last contest of the righteous, in which, when they overcome they are crowned with incorruption." Justin Martyr also has some pre-tribulational material: Second Apology, Ch. 7. "God delays causing the confusion and destruction of the whole world, by which the wicked angels and demons and men shall cease to exist, because of the seed of the Christians, who know that they are the cause of preservation in nature. Since, if it were not so, it would not have been possible for you to do these things, and to be impelled by evil spirits; but the fire of judgment would descend and utterly dissolve all things, even as formerly the flood left no one but him only with his family who is by us called Noah..."
I really enjoyed this video. Perhaps one day you could cover the different flavors of historic pre-mil? For instance Bryan Chapel while being historic Premil still believes in a distinct future of Israel and there are many different views from these famous historic pre-mil theologians throughout the centuries. If I had to guess there would be those who disagreed over the “New Creation” belief that you allude to as well??? Will be checking out more content from this channel.
I would love to do that. There has been talk among the Eschatology Matters production crew about this very thing. Some of the guys that I would be very interested in talking to are John Piper, Bryan Chapel, Al Mohler - who all claim classical historic premillennialism and would probably disagree with my view of those that enter the millennium, and most of all Thomas Schreiner (who is now a professed New Creation Millennialist). The best way to make this happen is to share the content and help us grow so that we can get some of these bigger name guys to take the time to come on the channel!
@@hmichaelshultzjr Hi Michael. I'd be interested to hear your take on Zechariah 14 in connection to the millennial reign of Christ. It sounds like there will be non-glorified people on the earth during the millennial reign of Christ when he is reigning on the earth. Also, if you read Zechariah 12-14, it seems like a fulfilment of Romans 11 that says one day all of the biological Jews will be saved. In Zechariah, the Jews in Israel will watch Jesus return and a spirit of grace will come upon them and they will mourn over Him whom they pierced, so they will all be saved like Romans 11 says. Also Jesus said Jerusalem would be trampled under foot by gentiles until the time of the gentiles has been fulfilled, then it will return to Jewish control like it has in modern times. Romans 11:25-26 uses the same language saying that once the time of the Gentiles is fulfilled, all of Israel will be saved (talking about biological Jews, not spiritual Jews). Also Scripture says in the prophets that a time will come when people will no longer talk of the Jews as the people who God brought out of Egypt to the promised land, but as the people God has gathered from all over the earth to the promised land. That happened in modern times too. I do believe in a post tribulation catching up of the church to see Christ as written in 2 Thessalonians 2 right before the millennial reign of Christ. In Revelation it talks about the marriage feast right before His coming to earth. I think there may be a rapture where we all go to the wedding feast, then we immediately return with Christ back to Earth where Jesus starts killing a lot of people, then we rule and reign with Him for a thousand years and so on like you talked about. I just disagree about the prophecies about the biological Jewish people and their return to the promised land not being important to end time theology. I think God is faithful to ALL of His promises, even the ones he has made to the Jewish people and one day the Jews in Israel will watch their savior return to Israel and they will all believe and be saved like written in Romans 11 and Zechariah.
@@TJMcCarty Hey TJ, glad to see the research you've put into your position. It looks like you've laid out about every argument in favor of post-tribulational dispensationalism haha! There are some very smart guys that hold to that position, such as Robert Gundry (who wrote a great book called "The Church and the Tribulation" that I used on a regular basis). Without engaging in some long-form debate here in the comment section, I hope it will sate your appetite for discourse when I say that much of what you claim is agreeable! I do believe in a future salvation of the ethnic Jews (per Romans 11), although the pertinence of the nation of Israel is not something I see as necessarily clear. The point I make about there being no death or unglorified people in the millennial kingdom is certainly my most contentious point, and will require much explanation and defense. I am glad you notice it and take issue with it, because that means I am contending for something unique, which encourages me! Keep up the research and interest in the topic! I'm glad to see your fervor, and I know there are others of your view that would love to have more people speaking out about the perspective!
@@hmichaelshultzjrdon’t get too excited about more unique and novel ideas - the church is muddied by them enough these days. Every scholar and teacher wants to look for new innovations to stick their name on it and sell books. Try to find what isn’t novel and is true
The re-capitulation is the return of Jesus. Ch 19 ends a narrative building off ch 17, 18, introducing mystery Babylon and her judgement thru 19. So yes , ch 20 is a new narrative.
@@hmichaelshultzjr I thought I heard you say there were no unbelievers that go into the Millennium. If I heard you correctly, what about unbelievers who carry the Remnant back into the land after Armegeddon in Isaiah 49:22-23, 56 and 60?
A great book against dispensationalism from a historic premillenial scholar is a book titled "The hope of Christ's second coming by Samuel P. Tregelles" Dr. Tregelles was a Biblical scholar of the 19th century who was a contemporary of john Nelson darby and wrote his Treatise in response to dispensationalism while it was still in it's infancy. Dr. Tregelles's refutation of dispensationalism is very very good. His book is not necessarily a positive presentation of Historic pre-millenialism. It is more of a response to and a refutation of darby's novel doctrine of dispensationalism. It is a fascinating book though because the criticism and refutation of dispensationalism is coming from a Biblical scholar who was a historic premillenialist. I would highly recommend dr. Tregelles's book.
As an Historic Pre-Mill person myself, I do respect all the views as I attrmpt to understand how they get there. But I have to admit, it is irritating when debating post/a-mill and they call all pre-mill people dispensationalists. I have to tell them over and over, I am not a dispensationalist.
His defense of the posture would not indicate actually New Creation Millennialism? (That is some of a modified Historic Premil). I said it because of the period of the second resurrection and that only resurrected saints take part in the Millennium.
I’m anxious to see Thomas Schreiner’s new commentary on Revelation where he will be explaining his view (which is New Creation Millennialism). This is the position of Gill, but he doesn’t spend time defending it against detractors or establishing its merit systematically. I’m open to that view, but at this time I don’t hold it. Thanks for listening so attentively!
@@hmichaelshultzjr oh yeah, I am waiting for that big Revelation commentary too! I have read some pages of J Webb Mealy paper on New Creation Millennialism, and it has some interesting arguments. But also I do still hold to Classic/Historic Premillennialism. Thank you for your exposition!
Why, after listening to this, am I still Amil? Because everyone who isnt with Christ dies at the end of Rev 19. Who are the nations being ruled over in Rev 20? Jesus clearly stated that the graves will open and the unrighteous get a rez of condemnation at that point. 1 Corinth 15 clearly says death is the LAST enemy to be destroyed and this happens at the resurrection which is at the Last Day which is his 2nd coming. Because of Rev 9, Rev 11, Rev 12. Because Jesus clearly stated His Kingdom isnt of this earth. Because He must cleanse the earth of sin and it is stated to happen At His Coming. 2 thess 1 (coming in flame of fire) 2 peter 3 ( coming in fire and the earth will melt with fervent heat. And I could go ON!
You are so right. Many points I can make. A mill makes much more sense and it is what I believe. Imagine if you will Animal sacrifice reintroduced in this so called 1000 year mill. Imagine if you will an airplane flying over Jesus head making a loud noise in this so called Mill. Or a jack hammer breaking up concrete or it being business as usual as most in the pre mill camp believe? Imagine glorified saints and un glorified people living together in this so called Millenium? Ridiculous! Rev 20 these pre mill take the thousand years literal but they do not take the chain literal or the beast literal, they too spiritualize they just don't admit it. The 1000 year sis a figurative number not a literal number of years. "He owns he cattle on a thousand hills" "He is faithful unto a thousand generations" the word Thousand is not a literal period of time. The mark of he beast is the sane thing and on and on. Imagine trying to mark everyone in the world with a literal mark? Can you mark a leper? You have to stay 50 feet from them. What about people with no right hand? What about people who live in caves who not only you can't find, but who never use money, they don't even know what it is! What about headhunters? the bible says "ALL" in Rev 13. Its a spiritual mark a spiritual ID that is given to God's people (Rev 14) and Satan's people in Rev 13. That's all it is. The pre mill side is completely wrong. John Nelson Darby began the entire heresy around 1830 and it spread from there. Don't believe people who push the pre mill view no matter how they couch it.
This man is so theologically intellectual which makes him spiritually blind to rightfully divide the word of truth. And the audience is laughing at his humor but yet deceived. The phrase Satan being bound for a thousand years means that Satan was prohibited from deceiving and attacking in Jerusalem during the wars that occurred in Jerusalem from 115ad through 1967ad the six day war these wars were the great tribulation that Jesus spoke of in Matt.24. In Ezekiel he said that it will occur in the latter days. Ezekiel 38:14-18 4 Therefore, son of man, prophesy and say unto Gog, Thus saith the Lord God; In that day when my people of Israel dwelleth safely, shalt thou not know it? 15 And thou shalt come from thy place out of the north parts, thou, and many people with thee, all of them riding upon horses, a great company, and a mighty army: 16 And thou shalt come up against my people of Israel, as a cloud to cover the land; it shall be in the latter days, and I will bring thee against my land, that the heathen may know me, when I shall be sanctified in thee, O Gog, before their eyes. 17 Thus saith the Lord God; Art thou he of whom I have spoken in old time by my servants the prophets of Israel, which prophesied in those days many years that I would bring thee against them? 18 And it shall come to pass at the same time when Gog shall come against the land of Israel, saith the Lord God, that my fury shall come up in my face. These wars on the land of Israel was according to the will of God so this is why Satan was bound from deceiving and attacking in Jerusalem during those centuries of wars. Revelation 17:12-17 12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast. 13 These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast. 14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful. 15 And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues. 16 And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire. 17 For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled. The ten horns represents the ten kings at the time that John had his vision these ten kings were not alive yet but they shall make war with the Lamb and the Lamb shall overcome them and God used the ten kings according to his will and the Ten kings represents the ten wars that occurred in Jerusalem from 115ad through 1967ad the six day war these wars were the great tribulation that Jesus spoke of in Matt.24 God judgment was still upon Israel after the the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple in 66ad-70ad and Masada 73ad the charge of innocent blood was upon the nation of Israel. God gave Israel a 45 year break from the wars after 70Ad but then the wars commenced in Jerusalem from 115ad through 1967ad 70Ad was the beginning of sorrows just like Jesus said and God judgment sustained itself upon the land of Apostate Jerusalem or Israel until his anger and fury is accomplished. Ezekiel 5:11-13 11 Wherefore, as I live, saith the Lord God; Surely, because thou hast defiled my sanctuary with all thy detestable things, and with all thine abominations, therefore will I also diminish thee; neither shall mine eye spare, neither will I have any pity. 12 A third part of thee shall die with the pestilence, and with famine shall they be consumed in the midst of thee: and a third part shall fall by the sword round about thee; and I will scatter a third part into all the winds, and I will draw out a sword after them. 13 Thus shall mine anger be accomplished, and I will cause my fury to rest upon them, and I will be comforted: and they shall know that I the Lord have spoken it in my zeal, when I have accomplished my fury in them. Jerusalem was Mystery Babylon the mother of harlots she was described with all the Old Testament High Priest Jewish Symbols She was arrayed with the same colors as the Old Testament High Priest Robes and she wore a golden crown on her forehead that says Mystery Babylon the mother of harlots the same as the Old Testament High Priest he wore a golden crown on his head with an engravment on a ribbon that says Holiness to the Lord she was drunk with the blood of the prophets and the Saints. There is no such thing as a 7 year tribulation period the time of Jacob's troubles has already been fulfilled and there is no such thing as Amillennial or Pre millennial or post millennial this is a great misconception of scriptures the phrase when it says those that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus they reigned with Christ for a thousand years. The phrase a thousand is the Greek word khil'-ee-oy - Definition: a thousand. - Origin: Plural of uncertain affinity; a thousand. A thousand means Affinity " which means a relationship or marriage or alliance. Satan represents a Unholy Alliance but those that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus were married to the bridegroom in Revelation chapter 19 . 1 Kings 3:1/Affinity/ An Alliance 3 And Solomon made affinity with Pharaoh king of Egypt, and took Pharaoh's daughter, and brought her into the city of David, until he had made an end of building his own house, and the house of the Lord, and the wall of Jerusalem round about. 2nd Chronicles 18:1/Affinity/Unholy Alliance 18 Now Jehoshaphat had riches and honour in abundance, and joined affinity with Ahab. Ezra 9:14 / Affinity / Unholy Alliance! 14 Should we again break thy commandments, and join in affinity with the people of these abominations? wouldest not thou be angry with us till thou hadst consumed us, so that there should be no remnant nor escaping? This is the true word of God rightfully Dividing the word of truth Amen 🙏
Well, I'm trying my best to understand eschatology by gathering from each view and this is good information. Unfortunately it's presented by an emotionally charged, prideful man who, by stating too many imperatives for the most difficult book in the Bible, seems to think he's got it all figured out. RED FLAG! And to slam the other brothers who are also just trying to know the heart of their Father to a greater degree(postmill.s don't even know what a Bible looks like?)shameful. I'm sure he walked away feeling better about himself though, and that's obviously the point of his presentation. Humble yourself and you will grow faster brother. I'm leaning toward the optimism and humility of the post view even more now, thank you.
If historic premil is true, is the new Jerusalem during or after the millennium? If historic premil is true, will the judgement in Matthew 25 (where the unrighteous are thrown into the fire prepared for the devil) and destruction of death in 1 Cor 15 take place after the millennium so as to harmonize with Rev 20?
In my view the New Jerusalem is the Church itself - not a literal city. And at face value, I would affirm your latter position about that judgment occurring after the millennium. As for the destruction of death, I am still developing my view on that.
@@christiansoldier77but the problem is that clearly death will be defeated at Jesus’ second coming. So Jesus comes to earth, reigns for a thousand years and then returns to heaven real quick, only to return again and destroy all his enemies including death?
Here is what came to me recently without hearing it from anyone. Here is something I just shared with someone a little while ago. I don't know if it's correct or not. If it is, then I know it was from the LORD: As puzzling as the premillennial view is about Satan having an innumerable amount of wicked people to gather together for his army after he is released for a short while after having been bound for a 1000 years, whether it's a literal or figurative 1000 years, I have never heard anyone who doesn't believe in premillennialism give a good argument for what they think it means. I've heard the preterest and ammillenial view of it and there's no way to prove that's what it means. One possibility if the premillennial view is correct is that the ones that the devil is going to gather together for his army will be the wicked who are resurrected for damnation. They could be resurrected and put back on earth, since that's where Jesus' throne will be. And when they compass the beloved city where the LORD is, He judges them and casts them into the lake of fire. Thanks for sharing what you believe about it 32:08! I haven't heard anything that makes more sense about the binding of the devil and his army at the end of the millennium. This helps me to have a stronger belief that this is correct!
Some of his claims are inaccurate. Amillenialism was being taught well before Augustine. Barnabas, clement of Alexandria, Origen and Justin Martyr were all Amillenial believers. Another inaccurate comment he made was Polycarp was a historic premillennial believer. I’ve read the only writing we have from him, which is his epistle to the Phillipians and he doesn’t ever talk about eschatology so there is no way to actually know what he believed. Eusebius does quote Polycarp as well as Papias and Irenaeus and says that Papias influenced Irenaeus concerning his millennial interpretation and Eusebius seems to say that Papias is of limited understanding regarding his position and stated he influenced other church fathers. And Eusebius said the apostolic fathers didn’t hold Papias’ position of the millennium Kingdom. So I just wanted to point that out.
Other than not being a Calvinist, I was in full agreement with this, right up until he talked about it being "silly" that there would be lost people in the Millennium. What he has either failed to consider, or has dismissed too readily, is that there will be little ones on the earth when Christ returns, children, who have no knowledge of good or evil, they shall go in there. As Jesus said, “Let the little children come to Me, and do not hinder them! For the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these.” They will grow up in the Kingdom, and the Saints of God will rule over them, and they will instructed in the word of the Lord, along with all those who were taken before their time, "for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem." And "no more shall there be in it an infant who lives but a few days, or an old man who does not fill out his days, for the young man shall die a hundred years old, and the sinner a hundred years old shall be accursed."
Plus, there's the Remnant of Isa 49:22-23, ch 56 and 60 who get carried back to Israel by unbelievers. It's only the unbelievers in that area that are killed besides children
Sorry to hear about your indoctrination into Calvinism. But with regards to you bringing up Matt 19:14 and connecting this to “list people in the Millennium”…..Matt 19:14 has absolutely nothing to do with the Millennium, where did you get that from?
I disagree with his timing of the 2nd resurrection. It occurs after Gog/Magog. He juat got through grilling post/a-mill on the timeline. I am also historic pre-mill. But I believe the battle of Armageddon doesn't destroy every non-believer. I have thought about who the survivors are. Perhaps children under the age of accountability are spared and not held accountable for taking the mark of the beast. Perhaps human trafficking victims are spared. Perhaps there are non-believers that are off grid and have not received the mark, but also have not heard the gospel. I also see that we reign and rule over the nations. Who are the nations? Those who still have carnal bodies. I also believe many of them will get saved during the millennium. I see no indication in scripture that people can not repent after the great tribulation and the 2nd coming of Christ.
The angel comes down, binds satan and throws him into the pit. Then the saints who have arrived in heaven from the persecution in Jerusalem , sit on thrones in order to judge the 12 tribes of Israel. Rev 20, Luke 22:30 & Mat 19:28. Revelation 5 is about the fulfilment of Daniel 7. The kingdom of the kings of the earth, the Herod’s, pass to the saints under persecution and the latter possess it for ever. Romans 8 is about the ‘redemption of the body,’ not the earth.
Brilliant and well-researched... I find Mike used humor properly as compared to R.C. Sproul, who used humor to obfuscate answering questions that undermined his Augistinan pseudo-theology... Keep up the good work, kid.
Ive always attended dispensationalist churches but im coming around to this view. I really dont like how some people fanatically support Isreal so the temple can be rebuilt, as if they think they can force the second coming to happen by doing so.
One disagreement. In 19:21 “the rest were killed with the sword” are referencing those armies who came against the Messiah in 19:19. It’s NOT the rest of the wicked on earth, it is the rest of those alive from the armies of the nations that came against the Messiah. There will be MANY unbelievers left alive during the Millenium! Zech 14:16 clearly shows that during the Millenium there will be wicked on the earth. Also Revelation 19:15 tells us that Messiah will reign with a rod of iron - why? For the obedient resurrected righteous? No, because there are wicked left alive on the earth! Again Zech 14:16 shows this clearly. ALL the wicked will not be dealt with till after the millennial reign in Rev 20:15 just before all things are made new at the second resurrection/ the great white throne judgement.
True because the rest have to be there in that place, Armegeddon, right around the mountains of Megiddo. It's everyone in that area who are not the remnant that go into the Millennium
So are you honestly saying that people who reject Christ are not the enemies of Christ? They obey not the Gospel and are by default Enemies. Read better.
@@kimmykimko no I am not saying the wicked are not in a sense the enemies of Christ. You obviously did not read AT ALL my first message and look up the references. You need to read more of scripture to see the BIG PICTURE. Read Rev 20:7-15. After the 1000 years of the millennial reign when Messiah is ruling the nations, after that the ungodly wicked enemy nations come up against Messiah and the city, they are destroyed at that time, AFTER THE 1000 years, and judged, NOT BEFORE. Where did these wicked come from after the Millennial reign if they all were destroyed at the second coming? Since you arrogantly think you read so much better than me, give me your time line of unfolding scriptural end times events and prove them with scripture? Learn how to be kind and speak with respect. When you make arrogant unfounded statements without defense you expose your ignorance.
I'm neither a dispensational premillennialist nor a historic premillennialist, but I lean more toward the latter. (However, unlike Mr. Shultz, I _do_ see a distinction between Israel and the Church, although not as sharp as dispensationalists see it; rather, the Church was grafted in to the Abrahamic olive tree). It's heartening to see an educated and good-natured man defend the historic premillennialist view of the Book of Revelation. Most critiques of premillennialism lump all forms of premillennialism together in such a way as to create a strawman, and historic premillennialists are themselves a dying breed.
If the kingdom is now, the 1000 years must be now too: Mark 1:15 ESV and saying, "The time is fulfilled, and *_the kingdom of God is at hand;_* repent and believe in the gospel." Revelation 1:9 KJV I John, … *_in the kingdom_* … of Jesus Christ, … Colossians 1:13 ESV He has delivered us from the domain of darkness *_and transferred us to the kingdom_* of his beloved Son,
Rev 11:15 The seventh angel sounded his trumpet, and there were loud voices in heaven, which said: “The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Messiah, and he will reign for ever and ever.” This happens after the 7th trumpet. There has not been a 7th and last trumpet and we know from Matt 24 the Lord will gather together His elect at the sound of the last trumpet. So if the world isn’t yet His kingdom in the sense Rev 11 puts it, then your understanding of Gods kingdom and timing if out of harmony with the Bible.
Well, this was frustrating. As someone exploring the 3 views of eschatology I came to this truly desiring to understand historic premill. I believe that sarcasm is a great distractor of an argument. This was one sarcastic remark after the next masquerading around as exposition. All I know now is that you definitely think you're right and everyone else is an idiot. I did not walk away having a better grasp of historic premillenialism.
My feelings exactly, I have been really digging into Revelation. Combined with all the craziness of this world, I see a spirit of Amalek growing and Christians seem to be oblivious to it, much like the events leading up to the Holocaust.
Great presentation! But doesn’t Isaiah 65:20 imply that there will be death in the millennium? That passage, which Justin Martyr understood as being fulfilled in the Thousand Year Reign, speaks of people dying young at a hundred. Couldn’t there be unglorified survivors that enter into the millennial kingdom like Zechariah 14 mention? Or, what about pregnant Christians at the time of Christ’s second coming? Could some of the unborn babies be unglorified and later grow into the rebellious nations? Lots of wild ideas to be explored here!
Though I hold a Preterist view I was willing and interested to hear this man's view... for the first 19 minutes. Then he said one day we'll have to stand before God and account for why we believed what we do about eschatology. What? Let's see a verse for that. It's false, and especially odd to hear it from a Calvinist. God already knows why I believe what I do. There's no Bible Trivia Quiz to enter heaven. There's nothing in anything Jesus ever said to suggest we must have the correct view of eschatology. How absurd! Why would he say it? Probably for the same reason some teach that tithing is a requirement under the new covenant... Because it works for the organization. Sorry, I won't be able to listen to more. Done here. Let's hear some debates -- That's where the answers are often revealed.
We are holding a live event on Historic Premillennialism this July, and we will have a new presentation from a different speaker, as well as Q&A. It will be filmed and put on the channel
Do you believe in animal sacrifices in the future as per Zechariah 14:16? Or are these spiritual sacrifices of praise and prayer as the new testament teaches? What do you believe about the abomination of Desolation in Matt 24:15? future or past? Literal temple in jerusalem or temple of "the church"? [how can a temple built by antichrists be considered temple of God?]
Sorry to our post-mil brothers and sisters out there, but Shultz’ jabs were pretty darn good and on point. I generally struggle how anybody studying the Bible for themselves under the guidance of the Spirit could possibly accept a doctrinal position like post-mil…rather you definitely need to be taught it by someone else to even pass the entry way to the post-mil room
@@PhilipBaker-sf4yv How one is brought up or what one favours as a personal preference has absolutely nothing to do with truth. Truth is truth, and the truth is Jesus has not yet setup His earthly kingdom, this should be extremely obvious. Yes, He is ruling now, but people forget that as He rules He can do what He pleases, and it may not always look like what we want it to look like.
@matts.6558 i agree with all you say. However i see problems with each of the 3 positions intellectually. The last bit of Isaiah when men live very much longer but do still do still die would lean towards the post millennium position. My belief in the character of God is he does very much more than the mere minimum his word might suggest. That does not mean that things are going to improve in the West any time soon as we are under judgement. Really i think we are as clueless about the second coming as the Jews were about his first coming. So i am hoping for post and from scripture i think it no less likely than the other 2. It is always a concern to me when there are issues that sincere Christians disagree. Those issues must be of secondary importance as the Spirit leads us into all truth
@PhilipBaker-sf4yv I don’t think this statement is accurate “Really i think we are as clueless about the second coming as the Jews were about his first coming.” I think this is a confused and vague way of approaching the scriptures and such vagueness can in some cases permit the insertion of possibilities and outcomes that are nowhere near the truth. To think Jesus hasn’t left His sheep with clear instructions is an insult to God, that sounds more like the bad shepherd and not the good shepard, because last time I checked a Shepard’s role is to lead, guide and protect a flock. So how could he do this is we are clueless about His return? I hope you realize this makes no sense. I believe you have been bamboozled by the thoughts, theories and philosophies of men. Brother Philip, Amil is wrong, the devil is not bound right now, and all the other nonsense is teaches is not based in reality. Postmil is wrong, how do you know very simply? The answer is infinitely simple if you can allow yourself to grasp it. Jesus nor His apostles were nor ever acted postmil. Either way you slice postmil is about converted Christian nations and a converted Christian world. Jesus never did this or stated it as his goal (be very careful with Matt 28 which is clearly only speaking about nations as a “peoples”) nor did His Apostles. Jesus preached separation from a world under the influence of evil one or god of this world Christ is coming back to rule over this world, it’s very clear in scripture. This is the real reason some of the Jews missed His first coming, was because they didn’t understand the whole counsel of God and just eft the suffering servant part out of it because they didn’t like it. Those that know Him hear His voice and follow Him. The key thing that exists today, and is and always will be a focal point of controversy, that should be a iron-clad way for you to know where we are at in Biblical prophecy and God’s timeline, is what Philip? My guess is your probably a Calvinist, could be wrong, and you give a great deal of importance to the Reformers, etc. The key thing above did not exist in their day.
@matts.6558 my reason for thinking we are pretty clueless on the second coming is because there are sincere Christians who hold post, a Millenialist and historic premillenialist views. I doubt you are saying that it is only the premilenialist that gets led into all truth. These things are sealed up until the end times when things will become progressively more clearer. As for being influenced by worldly philosophy I struggle to beleive anything the ungodly say on almost everything. Regarding Israel i was interested to hear the speaker say that if the State of Israel disappeared it would not shake his theology. Clearly there must be a big difference between the historic pre and the dispensationists. Yes I am a calvinist i think at the end there will be a great ingathering of Jewish people and also think that the fact that the State of Israel has been re established seems to be prophetically significant. How this all fits together I dont really know and i dont think others are as clear about it as they think they are. I do think the dispensationalists are wrong in thinking Jesus must return before the USA gets greatly inconvenienced!
All believers will not be in the millennium. Only the martyers and the ones still alive at the time of the rapture. Also the great white throne judgement is not just for the damned its also for the righteous who still had not been ressurected .
Brother Michael was using humor to lighten up a heavy theological day. That being said, it was probably easier to digest in the immediate context, rather than on video. Not everyone's cup of tea for sure. Ty for commenting!
An astute observation, but I would disagree! While I'm excited about the fleshing out of the New Creation Millennialistic view in the next several years, the view defended here is what has for centuries been known as Historic Premillennialism. Dispensationalism introduced the view that the glorified and unglorified will exist alongside one another in the Millennium - we must not allow that view to be reverse-applied onto Historic Premillennialism as if that is what we have always believed.
@@hmichaelshultzjr No that is wrong. The bible says that the millennium will be populated by regular people who live, work , marry and die. The raptured saints will not live among them but rule and judge the people along with Jesus . The Great White Throne judgement is the resurrection and judgement of the damned and righteous who were not a part of the rapture.
Eschatology does matter. It's how we distinguish good teaching from bad. Historic pastors thought that the world was flat and the earth was the center of the solar system. They also believed they were in a virtual millennial reign not having the perspective of actually seeing Ezekiel 36:1-29 and Jeremiah 3:14-17 (as well as other prophets). But now that we do see the regathered Israel back in the land of Canaan, we don't hold those old views anymore. We also now understand that the world is round and orbits the sun along with the other planets in our system. So, as Daniel states that during the end times.... _knowledge shall increase_ -Dan 12:4. Let's not let go of the knowledge and revelations we've been given and adopt old dead wives tales like Satan is subdued and that we are in the 1000 year reign of Christ (figuratively because it's been 2000 years now). That has not started yet! The harvest takes place first folks. Please see Matthew 13 for more on this.
Very good and funny! A smaller issue however is the statement that no unbelievers or mortals will be present in the millennial kingdom. That I think is not correct. Plenty of people will go through the great tribulation and survive. Most of them will no doubt be given the Holy Spirit and so believe right after the very return of Christ, but some will behold Him and remain unbelievers. At the end of the millennial reign there will again be a great apostasy and a last rebellion of mortals living on the Earth led by the then newly released Devil. By people who were born and had lived under the direct rule of Christ, but who were not granted faith. So on that small point Shultz and John Gill are simply wrong.
He says Satan wasn't bound by the cross but defeated. Then he says that at the conclusion of the millennium Satan is released. Released is the opposite of bound. He's awfully confident in using obscure, allegorical genres to interpret clear passages. How about describing the kingdom using Jesus's many descriptions of it? The "kingdom" is handed over to the Father at the coming of Jesus according to Paul in 1 Co 15. That is non- allegorical, straight forward teaching that at the second coming of Jesus, the "kingdom", that was taken from Israel and given to a "nation" that bears its fruit i.e., the Church, is at some kind of completed state at Jesus' return or, at the very least, it's already in existence in order for it to be given to the Father. Any form of premillenialism, call it historic or classic if you'd like, is false and it doesn't matter if John, himself believed it. Paul thought the whole council of God.
Then at the end, he accuses amills of believing that the promised land is a spiritual promise. No, its just that while we wait for this kingdom called the New Covenant to be completed in order to restore the Earth, remove the curse, and defeat death itself AS the promise, we enjoy a spiritual place, raised and seated with Christ with the Spirit indwelling, the deposit that guarantees our inheritance and the redemption of our bodies when Christ redeems His purchased possession
Right. When Jesus comes again He hands the completed kingdom over to the Father the same day (1Cor 15:24,28). Revelation 1:9 KJV I John, … *_in the kingdom_* … of Jesus Christ, … Colossians 1:13 ESV He has delivered us from the domain of darkness *_and transferred us to the kingdom_* of his beloved Son,
@@contemplate-Matt.Gbecause you guys deny the fact that after the 7th trumpet The kingdom of the world becomes the kingdom of Christ. You guys deny all the scriptures and promises both in the old and new testament which are many, to make sense of a few that speak of whose left after Jesus comes when there are better biblical views out there that will not dissmiss those plentiful other scriptures as allegory.
OK. Had to stop at the outset. He's a great speaker, engaging and funny... however, inaccurate he may be. He made a number of demonstrably false statements in the beginning. For instance, he claimed that for the first 300 yrs the church was "almost universally" premill. This is false and has been demonstrated time and again. For instance, I'd point to Dr. Hill's doctoral dissertation as evidence. Simply that we may assume this is what was taught by the disciples, is fine. Except that assumes we believe that Jesus taught them this. Read the Gospels. He actually didn't, and if He did, it's not recorded. In fact, if you read what He did say, when the disciples asked about the Kingdom (while they assumed premill because of their cultural context), He never actually affirmed their understanding, did He? No He didn't. They assumed the Kingdom would appear suddenly. How did Jesus respond? How did Daniel see it? How does Jesus' mustard tree resemble Nebuchadnezzar's tree? And are the differences between those two kings? Moreover, "Chiliasm" (or "premillennialism") was developed, roughly, 100 yrs or so before Jesus was born. And although not all teachers agreed with it, it became the dominant view. Now, what was going on in Jewish culture at that time, and do you think that would have lead to such a teaching? Lastly, among the teachers who actually did accept Chiliasm, they couldn't agree on what a "Millennium" was. Opinions varied between 70 years to 7,000 years. There's much more, but if you're new to this, what I have written may be a lot.
I am postmill, but have to say that was very compelling
4 месяца назад
True. I myself am still figuring out my way between pre and post. In a way, all positions have good points. One of the reasons why we have to stay humble, listen to each other and not make this a reason for division. Blessings.
Because everyone who isnt with Christ dies at the end of Rev 19. Who are the nations being ruled over in Rev 20? Jesus clearly stated that the graves will open and the unrighteous get a rez of condemnation at that point. 1 Corinth 15 clearly says death is the LAST enemy to be destroyed and this happens at the resurrection which is at the Last Day which is his 2nd coming.
@@kimmykimko Everyone does not die. The bible doesnt say that. The armies that are trying to fight Jesus will die . Everyone else will go into the millennium. After the millennium will be The Great White Throne judgement of the righteous and the wicked . Then we go into eternity. The resurrection is not at the second coming.
What if modern day dispys and historic pre mill both make some mistakes. I agree with 99% of this but God has not forsaken his promises to Israel. Roman’s 11. This remnant is the 144,000. They are temporarily blinded till Christ returns and we see Zechariah’s prophecy of them weeping and returning to Him. We do not escape the tribulation. We suffer alongside Israel and become one flock when he returns. Temple sacrifice resuming better catch your attention. It won’t be meaningless.
As noted in the video, it seems fairly clear by the New Testament testimony that we are not going to "become one flock when he returns" but that the Church and Israel are already one flock. This seems to be the obvious conclusion of Galatians, especially Galatians 3. Regarding you specifically, it seems that you are looking for Post-Tribulational Dispensationalism, which is a view. This is something that I briefly mention at the outset of the video when I say, "You might think I am just a Dispy who believes in the rapture at the end..." That is a real view - and there are a few noteworthy scholars who have held to that view. If you believe the scriptures point towards that conclusion, I recommend you map it out comprehensively and see if all the scriptures work in conjunction in that view.
@@hmichaelshultzjr thank you for the reply. I really enjoyed the video BTW. I’m up against a wall with the Post-mill guys growing in my church, so I especially appreciated this video. I do agree we are one flock now, and in Christ there is no distinction. I’ve never really considered myself a dispensationalist as there seems to be 100 degrees of it. I try to just understand what the scriptures say at face value when held up against the entirety of the Bible. I do feel God still can have a plan for the nation of Israel and have a remnant of blinded Jews that come to Christ when he returns to rescue them out of captivity. The problem I have with creating a category or systematic theology for every belief system is sometimes you just can’t fully capture the whole mystery in scripture. There are many paradoxes in scripture that seem like competing ideas but in essence both are true. This is hard to wrap our minds around at times but there are many examples. Election versus choice, 100% God and 100% man, God in three persons, etc. To me there is way too much detail in the OT prophecy of God restoring the nation of Israel and them repenting at His coming. Roman’s 11 expands on this mystery. I also cannot allegorize the temples role in prophecy either.
@@kingsolomon3175 I completely understand the battle going on with Postmillennialism. We are on the verge of a major world war - and I am fairly certain that will once again be the end of Postmillennialism for at least another generation. Postmil tends to grow when things are going well and then we all fall out of bed and are forced to come out of our dreams. As for the Israelite conversion at the return of Christ, I entirely affirm that. I even believe that the promise of Zechariah that “I will pour out on them a spirit of grace and they will mourn for him when they look on him whom they pierced like an only son” refers to that conversion of Jews at the return of Christ. That is entirely compatible with Historic Premillennialism
@@hmichaelshultzjr so does historic pre-mill position believe that the temple in revelation is allegory or, do you believe that portion of revelation (seals) were fulfilled in 70ad. I guess I need to research this position more. I’ve always seemed to be caught in between postys and dispys trying to figure out why there seems to be nobody else like me that believes in pre-mill that doesn’t buy the left behind nonsense. So this was refreshing, but I do still think Daniels 70th week is future, mainly because chapter 8 and 9 flow together. The end of 8 the angel emphasizes that the 2300 days for the start of regular sacrifice, abominations and temple restoration is for the “appointed time of the end”. Daniel doesn’t understand, then the angel returns to give him the 70 weeks prophecy as clarification. So one of those weeks must be the explanation for this 2300 days at the appointed time of the end. That being the last one since it describes the same events. So the 2300 days is within the final 2,520. Meaning regular sacrifice would begin roughly 220 days after the covenant is signed. Plus many other references in OT prophecy about this covenant as well resulting in Israel’s desolation.
@@kingsolomon3175 There is room within the HP camp for individuals who take the tribulation as being future, and even those who would expect a 7 year tribulation in compliance with that interpretation of Daniel. That is not my position, but it is a viable one in our camp. So, while I do take the Revelation references to the Temple allegorically myself, I know that is not the position of others.
Excellent video. Well done. However, an assumption was made about those who enter the Millennium. It claims that all the unsaved die. That isn't what Revelation says. It says that lots and lots of people die. It's safe to say that all who take The Mark, die. However, please note that The Mark must be taken voluntarily, otherwise the Antichrist could impose it upon us. The Mark is about worship, and you must be old enough to do so. There will be millions of children too young to take The Mark or worship the Antichrist. THEY will go into the Millennium and will grow in population for a thousand years, until the time when Satan is released to deceive them.
You did well until contradicting yourself buy shuffling verses and putting ressurection at the end of 1000 years before destruction at Gog and Magog. There will be nations on earth when satan is released whom he will deceive. Be consistent.
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I LOVE the humor and levity peppered throughout this teaching.
I remain in the amil camp, but now I know why you believe what you believe. Excellent presentation!
I am a dispensational premil pretrib, but man, I LOVED your sense of humor!
Yes, preach the gospel of our king and be found preaching it when He returns. Good presentation brother thank you.
Just want to say I'm really happy to see the re-emergence of historic pre-mill. Hopefully more people will discover historic pre-mill and we can stop being conflated with Dispensationalists in lectures and debates. XD
Amen and Amen.
The only issue I have with this explanation of historic premillennialism is what I perceive to be the inclusion of Replacement Theology. The New Covenant was made with Israel and Judah, Gentiles being grafted in
@@MrAOdom1966honestly, I don’t think he is saying that as he does point out that everyone must come to salvation the same way… the cross… by grace. This is for corporate Israel as well as the Gentiles grafted into the vine. Both of which have the same root being Christ.
@@MrAOdom1966 One of the biggest failures of Dispensational Futurism is their belief that there are 7-years left on God's Prophetic calendar for the Jews, specifically.
It's a fallacious presupposition of a "gap theory' between the 69th and 70th weeks of Dan. 9:24-27.
I love how he began his presentation gracefully and lovingly, with good humor, then delivered this powerful, clear defense. Excellent job.
As an ex dispensational premill. now Historic premill. , this video means a lot thank you ! Great video !
We are glad you found it edifying!
I am still Dispy Pre-mil, because the Bible has a lot to say about the present and future spiritual state of the Jews. Jesus and Paul said there would be a great revival amoung the Jews prior to Christ's return "you will not see me again until you say blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord" Matthew 25. On the flip side, many Jews will be decieved by the Antichrist and the Antichrist will himself be a Jew as he masquerades as the long awaited messiah. Check out A.W. Pink's "The Antichrist".
@@sanders194539
The Book of Galatians chapter 3 to 4 is a good place to start , concerning this topic , Galatians 3:16, & 3:26-29 KJV we see how the promises and the Blessings of Abraham which Dispensationalists claim is strictly & only applies too the zionist state of Israel and for the Jews, is actually for Christians those in Christ, the church , in Galatians 4:22-26 we see again how the physical descendants if they are not saved
"Christ rejecting Jews" they are actually of the bond women and the Blessings don't apply to them, which is again the opposite of what Dispensationalism teaches,
But he is a Jew which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God Romans 2:29 KJV
Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all of Israel, which are of Israel
Romans 9:6 KJV
The pope is the Antichrist another obvious truth not taught in Dispensationalism .
I am actually an anti-Zionist, and yes pre-mil dispy has been almost completely discredited by Zionism, but a careful study of scripture reveals a more nuanced view of Israel.
The Pope cannot be the Antichrist, because he has never presented himself as God, he is called the vichar of christ but he has never been said to be God (2 thessalonians). Also, the Antichist will be a Jew, whereas the pope has never been jewish (Ezekiel 21:25-27). I enchourage you to read A.W. Pinks "the Antichrist" he sites many other scriptures refuting the idea of the pope being th antichrist. The Greek word used for the antichrist is psuedo meaning "in place of Christ" or one who masquerqdes as christ. In Matthew 12 Jesus told some Jews "i come in my fathers name and ye recieve me not in another comes in his own name him you shall recieve" the him and his pronouns are singular and refer to the Jews embracing the antichrist.
Romans 11 tells of a partial hardening of Israel "until the fullness of the gentiles has come in", and then there will thereafter be a revival in national ethnic Israel. The 144,000 and the two witnesses conducting their ministry in Jerusalem demonstrates a future revival in Israel. Jews were both the principle enemies and followers of Christ in his first coming, so shall they be when He comes again, some apostate, some disciples.
@miguelz8721 Not obvious at all. The world doesn't love the Pope lol. The secular world hates anything that calls itself Christian.
How beautiful and rare is just passionate word-view preaching. The brother makes a kind of intense self cross-examination. I struggled to follow.
How wonderful!
At some point in his lecture, I said out loud, "BOOM !! There it is !" Thank you brother for your faithfulness to the exegesis of Scripture xox
32:08 I am historic premill and I was waiting for him to address this THANKS!!!
Glad you enjoyed it!
Daryl King He was wrong . The World during the millennium will be populated by non believers who survive the wrath of God
Wow! I just had that thought come to me here recently within having heard anyone ever tell it to me. I just gave this to someone a little earlier:
As puzzling as the premillennial view is about Satan having an innumerable amount of wicked people to gather together for his army after he is released for a short while after having been bound for a 1000 years, whether it's a literal or figurative 1000 years, I have never heard anyone who doesn't believe in premillennialism give a good argument for what they think it means. I've heard the preterest and ammillenial view of it and there's no way to prove that's what it means.
Any views I've heard leaves us with questions and with no way to prove everything according to that view. We always seem to have to speculate on certain verses or spiritualize, or allegorize, or use our imagination, or something. One possibility if the premillennial view is correct is that the ones that the devil is going to gather together for his army will be the wicked who are resurrected for damnation. They could be resurrected and put back on earth, since that's where Jesus' throne will be. And when they compass the beloved city where the LORD is, He judges them and casts them into the lake of fire.
That. Was. AWESOME!
I'm saved and living my life like my great great grandchildren will be preaching the gospel. If I'm wrong then I'm cool with that too. There have been pre-mil folks for almost 2000 years.
Solid defense! Thank you for this!
Irenaeus, Against Heresies, Book 5, Ch. 5, presents some pretty strong pretribulational material. See also Book 5, Ch. XXIX, section 1: "And therefore, when in the end the Church shall be suddenly caught up from this, it is said, 'There shall be tribulation such as has not been since the beginning, neither shall be.' (Mat 24:21) For this is the last contest of the righteous, in which, when they overcome they are crowned with incorruption."
Justin Martyr also has some pre-tribulational material: Second Apology, Ch. 7.
"God delays causing the confusion and destruction of the whole world, by which the wicked angels and demons and men shall cease to exist, because of the seed of the Christians, who know that they are the cause of preservation in nature. Since, if it were not so, it would not have been possible for you to do these things, and to be impelled by evil spirits; but the fire of judgment would descend and utterly dissolve all things, even as formerly the flood left no one but him only with his family who is by us called Noah..."
Great defense of historic premill
EXCELLENT presentation of THE TRUTH!
I really enjoyed this video. Perhaps one day you could cover the different flavors of historic pre-mil? For instance Bryan Chapel while being historic Premil still believes in a distinct future of Israel and there are many different views from these famous historic pre-mil theologians throughout the centuries. If I had to guess there would be those who disagreed over the “New Creation” belief that you allude to as well??? Will be checking out more content from this channel.
We will forward this to Michael and he will get back with you!
I would love to do that. There has been talk among the Eschatology Matters production crew about this very thing. Some of the guys that I would be very interested in talking to are John Piper, Bryan Chapel, Al Mohler - who all claim classical historic premillennialism and would probably disagree with my view of those that enter the millennium, and most of all Thomas Schreiner (who is now a professed New Creation Millennialist).
The best way to make this happen is to share the content and help us grow so that we can get some of these bigger name guys to take the time to come on the channel!
@@hmichaelshultzjr Hi Michael. I'd be interested to hear your take on Zechariah 14 in connection to the millennial reign of Christ. It sounds like there will be non-glorified people on the earth during the millennial reign of Christ when he is reigning on the earth. Also, if you read Zechariah 12-14, it seems like a fulfilment of Romans 11 that says one day all of the biological Jews will be saved. In Zechariah, the Jews in Israel will watch Jesus return and a spirit of grace will come upon them and they will mourn over Him whom they pierced, so they will all be saved like Romans 11 says. Also Jesus said Jerusalem would be trampled under foot by gentiles until the time of the gentiles has been fulfilled, then it will return to Jewish control like it has in modern times. Romans 11:25-26 uses the same language saying that once the time of the Gentiles is fulfilled, all of Israel will be saved (talking about biological Jews, not spiritual Jews). Also Scripture says in the prophets that a time will come when people will no longer talk of the Jews as the people who God brought out of Egypt to the promised land, but as the people God has gathered from all over the earth to the promised land. That happened in modern times too.
I do believe in a post tribulation catching up of the church to see Christ as written in 2 Thessalonians 2 right before the millennial reign of Christ. In Revelation it talks about the marriage feast right before His coming to earth. I think there may be a rapture where we all go to the wedding feast, then we immediately return with Christ back to Earth where Jesus starts killing a lot of people, then we rule and reign with Him for a thousand years and so on like you talked about.
I just disagree about the prophecies about the biological Jewish people and their return to the promised land not being important to end time theology. I think God is faithful to ALL of His promises, even the ones he has made to the Jewish people and one day the Jews in Israel will watch their savior return to Israel and they will all believe and be saved like written in Romans 11 and Zechariah.
@@TJMcCarty Hey TJ, glad to see the research you've put into your position. It looks like you've laid out about every argument in favor of post-tribulational dispensationalism haha! There are some very smart guys that hold to that position, such as Robert Gundry (who wrote a great book called "The Church and the Tribulation" that I used on a regular basis).
Without engaging in some long-form debate here in the comment section, I hope it will sate your appetite for discourse when I say that much of what you claim is agreeable! I do believe in a future salvation of the ethnic Jews (per Romans 11), although the pertinence of the nation of Israel is not something I see as necessarily clear. The point I make about there being no death or unglorified people in the millennial kingdom is certainly my most contentious point, and will require much explanation and defense. I am glad you notice it and take issue with it, because that means I am contending for something unique, which encourages me!
Keep up the research and interest in the topic! I'm glad to see your fervor, and I know there are others of your view that would love to have more people speaking out about the perspective!
@@hmichaelshultzjrdon’t get too excited about more unique and novel ideas - the church is muddied by them enough these days. Every scholar and teacher wants to look for new innovations to stick their name on it and sell books. Try to find what isn’t novel and is true
The re-capitulation is the return of Jesus.
Ch 19 ends a narrative building off ch 17, 18, introducing mystery Babylon and her judgement thru 19. So yes , ch 20 is a new narrative.
34:09 I was tracking until right here . Is there any other resources or videos on this ?
Same.
He's referring to John Gill, who asserted this.
But it makes sense. Unbelievers remain in unbelief.
Has Schulz writen any books on this topic? If not what are some good ones on it.
I am in the process of publishing a commentary on the book of Revelation! Be on the lookout for it :)
@@hmichaelshultzjr awesome
@@hmichaelshultzjr I thought I heard you say there were no unbelievers that go into the Millennium. If I heard you correctly, what about unbelievers who carry the Remnant back into the land after Armegeddon in Isaiah 49:22-23, 56 and 60?
@@hmichaelshultzjrhello, what is the identity of "mystery Babylon" in your opinion?
A great book against dispensationalism from a historic premillenial scholar is a book titled
"The hope of Christ's second coming by Samuel P. Tregelles"
Dr. Tregelles was a Biblical scholar of the 19th century who was a contemporary of john Nelson darby and wrote his Treatise in response to dispensationalism while it was still in it's infancy. Dr. Tregelles's refutation of dispensationalism is very very good.
His book is not necessarily a positive presentation of Historic pre-millenialism. It is more of a response to and a refutation of darby's novel doctrine of dispensationalism.
It is a fascinating book though because the criticism and refutation of dispensationalism is coming from a Biblical scholar who was a historic premillenialist.
I would highly recommend dr. Tregelles's book.
As an Historic Pre-Mill person myself, I do respect all the views as I attrmpt to understand how they get there. But I have to admit, it is irritating when debating post/a-mill and they call all pre-mill people dispensationalists. I have to tell them over and over, I am not a dispensationalist.
This is great!
This was an amazing presentation of historic Premil. What a blessing to the body!
His defense of the posture would not indicate actually New Creation Millennialism? (That is some of a modified Historic Premil).
I said it because of the period of the second resurrection and that only resurrected saints take part in the Millennium.
I’m anxious to see Thomas Schreiner’s new commentary on Revelation where he will be explaining his view (which is New Creation Millennialism). This is the position of Gill, but he doesn’t spend time defending it against detractors or establishing its merit systematically.
I’m open to that view, but at this time I don’t hold it. Thanks for listening so attentively!
@@hmichaelshultzjr oh yeah, I am waiting for that big Revelation commentary too!
I have read some pages of J Webb Mealy paper on New Creation Millennialism, and it has some interesting arguments.
But also I do still hold to Classic/Historic Premillennialism.
Thank you for your exposition!
Why, after listening to this, am I still Amil?
Because everyone who isnt with Christ dies at the end of Rev 19. Who are the nations being ruled over in Rev 20? Jesus clearly stated that the graves will open and the unrighteous get a rez of condemnation at that point. 1 Corinth 15 clearly says death is the LAST enemy to be destroyed and this happens at the resurrection which is at the Last Day which is his 2nd coming.
Because of Rev 9, Rev 11, Rev 12.
Because Jesus clearly stated His Kingdom isnt of this earth.
Because He must cleanse the earth of sin and it is stated to happen At His Coming. 2 thess 1 (coming in flame of fire) 2 peter 3 ( coming in fire and the earth will melt with fervent heat.
And I could go ON!
You are so right. Many points I can make. A mill makes much more sense and it is what I believe. Imagine if you will Animal sacrifice reintroduced in this so called 1000 year mill.
Imagine if you will an airplane flying over Jesus head making a loud noise in this so called Mill. Or a jack hammer breaking up concrete or it being business as usual as most in the pre mill camp believe?
Imagine glorified saints and un glorified people living together in this so called Millenium? Ridiculous! Rev 20 these pre mill take the thousand years literal but they do not take the chain literal or the beast literal, they too spiritualize they just don't admit it. The 1000 year sis a figurative number not a literal number of years. "He owns he cattle on a thousand hills" "He is faithful unto a thousand generations" the word Thousand is not a literal period of time. The mark of he beast is the sane thing and on and on. Imagine trying to mark everyone in the world with a literal mark? Can you mark a leper? You have to stay 50 feet from them. What about people with no right hand? What about people who live in caves who not only you can't find, but who never use money, they don't even know what it is! What about headhunters? the bible says "ALL" in Rev 13. Its a spiritual mark a spiritual ID that is given to God's people (Rev 14) and Satan's people in Rev 13. That's all it is. The pre mill side is completely wrong. John Nelson Darby began the entire heresy around 1830 and it spread from there. Don't believe people who push the pre mill view no matter how they couch it.
Amen! Praise God! Great Presentation! Awesome attitude of grace mixed with loving conviction and TRUTH.
This man is so theologically intellectual which makes him spiritually blind to rightfully divide the word of truth.
And the audience is laughing at his humor but yet deceived.
The phrase Satan being bound for a thousand years means that Satan was prohibited from deceiving and attacking in Jerusalem during the wars that occurred in Jerusalem from 115ad through 1967ad the six day war these wars were the great tribulation that Jesus spoke of in Matt.24.
In Ezekiel he said that it will occur in the latter days.
Ezekiel 38:14-18
4 Therefore, son of man, prophesy and say unto Gog, Thus saith the Lord God; In that day when my people of Israel dwelleth safely, shalt thou not know it?
15 And thou shalt come from thy place out of the north parts, thou, and many people with thee, all of them riding upon horses, a great company, and a mighty army:
16 And thou shalt come up against my people of Israel, as a cloud to cover the land; it shall be in the latter days, and I will bring thee against my land, that the heathen may know me, when I shall be sanctified in thee, O Gog, before their eyes.
17 Thus saith the Lord God; Art thou he of whom I have spoken in old time by my servants the prophets of Israel, which prophesied in those days many years that I would bring thee against them?
18 And it shall come to pass at the same time when Gog shall come against the land of Israel, saith the Lord God, that my fury shall come up in my face.
These wars on the land of Israel was according to the will of God so this is why Satan was bound from deceiving and attacking in Jerusalem during those centuries of wars.
Revelation 17:12-17
12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.
13 These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.
14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.
15 And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.
16 And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.
17 For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.
The ten horns represents the ten kings at the time that John had his vision these ten kings were not alive yet but they shall make war with the Lamb and the Lamb shall overcome them and God used the ten kings according to his will and the Ten kings represents the ten wars that occurred in Jerusalem from 115ad through 1967ad the six day war these wars were the great tribulation that Jesus spoke of in Matt.24 God judgment was still upon Israel after the the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple in 66ad-70ad and Masada 73ad the charge of innocent blood was upon the nation of Israel.
God gave Israel a 45 year break from the wars after 70Ad but then the wars commenced in Jerusalem from 115ad through 1967ad 70Ad was the beginning of sorrows just like Jesus said and God judgment sustained itself upon the land of Apostate Jerusalem or Israel until his anger and fury is accomplished.
Ezekiel 5:11-13
11 Wherefore, as I live, saith the Lord God; Surely, because thou hast defiled my sanctuary with all thy detestable things, and with all thine abominations, therefore will I also diminish thee; neither shall mine eye spare, neither will I have any pity.
12 A third part of thee shall die with the pestilence, and with famine shall they be consumed in the midst of thee: and a third part shall fall by the sword round about thee; and I will scatter a third part into all the winds, and I will draw out a sword after them.
13 Thus shall mine anger be accomplished, and I will cause my fury to rest upon them, and I will be comforted: and they shall know that I the Lord have spoken it in my zeal, when I have accomplished my fury in them.
Jerusalem was Mystery Babylon the mother of harlots she was described with all the Old Testament High Priest Jewish Symbols
She was arrayed with the same colors as the Old Testament High Priest Robes and she wore a golden crown on her forehead that says Mystery Babylon the mother of harlots the same as the Old Testament High Priest he wore a golden crown on his head with an engravment on a ribbon that says Holiness to the Lord she was drunk with the blood of the prophets and the Saints.
There is no such thing as a 7 year tribulation period the time of Jacob's troubles has already been fulfilled and there is no such thing as Amillennial or Pre millennial or post millennial this is a great misconception of scriptures the phrase when it says those that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus they reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
The phrase a thousand is the Greek word khil'-ee-oy
- Definition: a thousand.
- Origin: Plural of uncertain affinity; a thousand.
A thousand means Affinity " which means a relationship or marriage or alliance.
Satan represents a Unholy Alliance but those that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus were married to the bridegroom in Revelation chapter 19 .
1 Kings 3:1/Affinity/ An Alliance
3 And Solomon made affinity with Pharaoh king of Egypt, and took Pharaoh's daughter, and brought her into the city of David, until he had made an end of building his own house, and the house of the Lord, and the wall of Jerusalem round about.
2nd Chronicles 18:1/Affinity/Unholy Alliance
18 Now Jehoshaphat had riches and honour in abundance, and joined affinity with Ahab.
Ezra 9:14 / Affinity / Unholy Alliance!
14 Should we again break thy commandments, and join in affinity with the people of these abominations? wouldest not thou be angry with us till thou hadst consumed us, so that there should be no remnant nor escaping?
This is the true word of God rightfully Dividing the word of truth
Amen 🙏
Well, I'm trying my best to understand eschatology by gathering from each view and this is good information. Unfortunately it's presented by an emotionally charged, prideful man who, by stating too many imperatives for the most difficult book in the Bible, seems to think he's got it all figured out. RED FLAG! And to slam the other brothers who are also just trying to know the heart of their Father to a greater degree(postmill.s don't even know what a Bible looks like?)shameful. I'm sure he walked away feeling better about himself though, and that's obviously the point of his presentation. Humble yourself and you will grow faster brother. I'm leaning toward the optimism and humility of the post view even more now, thank you.
You sound way way way more prideful and ignorant than this man
Is this the same as classic premill ?
Yes
Does that guy have a channel?
He does not. But he does conferences
Glad to see this view getting more exposure and growing in humble adherents.
If historic premil is true, is the new Jerusalem during or after the millennium?
If historic premil is true, will the judgement in Matthew 25 (where the unrighteous are thrown into the fire prepared for the devil) and destruction of death in 1 Cor 15 take place after the millennium so as to harmonize with Rev 20?
In my view the New Jerusalem is the Church itself - not a literal city.
And at face value, I would affirm your latter position about that judgment occurring after the millennium. As for the destruction of death, I am still developing my view on that.
J Drawbaugh Both are after the millennium
@@christiansoldier77but the problem is that clearly death will be defeated at Jesus’ second coming. So Jesus comes to earth, reigns for a thousand years and then returns to heaven real quick, only to return again and destroy all his enemies including death?
@@user-rw6op8yb9g Who said Jesus was gonna go back to heaven? You aren't understanding the scriptures
@@christiansoldier77 if Jesus is bringing death to an end at his “coming” (parousia) I am expecting him to come from heaven to earth in that moment.
Here is what came to me recently without hearing it from anyone. Here is something I just shared with someone a little while ago. I don't know if it's correct or not. If it is, then I know it was from the LORD:
As puzzling as the premillennial view is about Satan having an innumerable amount of wicked people to gather together for his army after he is released for a short while after having been bound for a 1000 years, whether it's a literal or figurative 1000 years, I have never heard anyone who doesn't believe in premillennialism give a good argument for what they think it means. I've heard the preterest and ammillenial view of it and there's no way to prove that's what it means.
One possibility if the premillennial view is correct is that the ones that the devil is going to gather together for his army will be the wicked who are resurrected for damnation. They could be resurrected and put back on earth, since that's where Jesus' throne will be. And when they compass the beloved city where the LORD is, He judges them and casts them into the lake of fire.
Thanks for sharing what you believe about it 32:08! I haven't heard anything that makes more sense about the binding of the devil and his army at the end of the millennium. This helps me to have a stronger belief that this is correct!
27:36 How can you make strong claims about the nature of the binding of Satan without reference to Matthew 12:22-30?
This is excellent🔥🔥🔥
A stand up comedian.
19:34 I wouldn't dare say anything like that.
Some of his claims are inaccurate. Amillenialism was being taught well before Augustine. Barnabas, clement of Alexandria, Origen and Justin Martyr were all Amillenial believers.
Another inaccurate comment he made was Polycarp was a historic premillennial believer. I’ve read the only writing we have from him, which is his epistle to the Phillipians and he doesn’t ever talk about eschatology so there is no way to actually know what he believed. Eusebius does quote Polycarp as well as Papias and Irenaeus and says that Papias influenced Irenaeus concerning his millennial interpretation and Eusebius seems to say that Papias is of limited understanding regarding his position and stated he influenced other church fathers. And Eusebius said the apostolic fathers didn’t hold Papias’ position of the millennium Kingdom.
So I just wanted to point that out.
Other than not being a Calvinist, I was in full agreement with this, right up until he talked about it being "silly" that there would be lost people in the Millennium. What he has either failed to consider, or has dismissed too readily, is that there will be little ones on the earth when Christ returns, children, who have no knowledge of good or evil, they shall go in there. As Jesus said, “Let the little children come to Me, and do not hinder them! For the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these.”
They will grow up in the Kingdom, and the Saints of God will rule over them, and they will instructed in the word of the Lord, along with all those who were taken before their time, "for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem." And "no more shall there be in it an infant who lives but a few days, or an old man who does not fill out his days, for the young man shall die a hundred years old, and the sinner a hundred years old shall be accursed."
Plus, there's the Remnant of Isa 49:22-23, ch 56 and 60 who get carried back to Israel by unbelievers. It's only the unbelievers in that area that are killed besides children
Sorry to hear about your indoctrination into Calvinism. But with regards to you bringing up Matt 19:14 and connecting this to “list people in the Millennium”…..Matt 19:14 has absolutely nothing to do with the Millennium, where did you get that from?
@@matts.6558 Not sure who brought up Mt 19:14 and I agree with you about the context. However, that verse doesn't refute Calvinism either
@@markedwards5883 comment was supposed to be to the original poster. Sorry you drank the Calvinist koolaid though my friend :(
I could try and help you purge the Calvinism from your system though if your looking to be free of any unknown or unidentified error…been there myself
He’s a solid speaker and does a great job defending this view. The burn on post-mill was hilarious
I disagree with his timing of the 2nd resurrection. It occurs after Gog/Magog. He juat got through grilling post/a-mill on the timeline. I am also historic pre-mill. But I believe the battle of Armageddon doesn't destroy every non-believer. I have thought about who the survivors are. Perhaps children under the age of accountability are spared and not held accountable for taking the mark of the beast. Perhaps human trafficking victims are spared. Perhaps there are non-believers that are off grid and have not received the mark, but also have not heard the gospel. I also see that we reign and rule over the nations. Who are the nations? Those who still have carnal bodies. I also believe many of them will get saved during the millennium. I see no indication in scripture that people can not repent after the great tribulation and the 2nd coming of Christ.
The angel comes down, binds satan and throws him into the pit. Then the saints who have arrived in heaven from the persecution in Jerusalem , sit on thrones in order to judge the 12 tribes of Israel. Rev 20, Luke 22:30 & Mat 19:28.
Revelation 5 is about the fulfilment of Daniel 7. The kingdom of the kings of the earth, the Herod’s, pass to the saints under persecution and the latter possess it for ever.
Romans 8 is about the ‘redemption of the body,’ not the earth.
At this point, I’m post trib, pre wrath, pre Millennial.
Brilliant and well-researched... I find Mike used humor properly as compared to R.C. Sproul, who used humor to obfuscate answering questions that undermined his Augistinan pseudo-theology... Keep up the good work, kid.
Ive always attended dispensationalist churches but im coming around to this view. I really dont like how some people fanatically support Isreal so the temple can be rebuilt, as if they think they can force the second coming to happen by doing so.
One disagreement. In 19:21 “the rest were killed with the sword” are referencing those armies who came against the Messiah in 19:19. It’s NOT the rest of the wicked on earth, it is the rest of those alive from the armies of the nations that came against the Messiah. There will be MANY unbelievers left alive during the Millenium! Zech 14:16 clearly shows that during the Millenium there will be wicked on the earth. Also Revelation 19:15 tells us that Messiah will reign with a rod of iron - why? For the obedient resurrected righteous? No, because there are wicked left alive on the earth! Again Zech 14:16 shows this clearly. ALL the wicked will not be dealt with till after the millennial reign in Rev 20:15 just before all things are made new at the second resurrection/ the great white throne judgement.
True because the rest have to be there in that place, Armegeddon, right around the mountains of Megiddo. It's everyone in that area who are not the remnant that go into the Millennium
So are you honestly saying that people who reject Christ are not the enemies of Christ? They obey not the Gospel and are by default Enemies. Read better.
@@kimmykimko no I am not saying the wicked are not in a sense the enemies of Christ. You obviously did not read AT ALL my first message and look up the references. You need to read more of scripture to see the BIG PICTURE. Read Rev 20:7-15. After the 1000 years of the millennial reign when Messiah is ruling the nations, after that the ungodly wicked enemy nations come up against Messiah and the city, they are destroyed at that time, AFTER THE 1000 years, and judged, NOT BEFORE. Where did these wicked come from after the Millennial reign if they all were destroyed at the second coming?
Since you arrogantly think you read so much better than me, give me your time line of unfolding scriptural end times events and prove them with scripture? Learn how to be kind and speak with respect. When you make arrogant unfounded statements without defense you expose your ignorance.
I'm neither a dispensational premillennialist nor a historic premillennialist, but I lean more toward the latter. (However, unlike Mr. Shultz, I _do_ see a distinction between Israel and the Church, although not as sharp as dispensationalists see it; rather, the Church was grafted in to the Abrahamic olive tree). It's heartening to see an educated and good-natured man defend the historic premillennialist view of the Book of Revelation. Most critiques of premillennialism lump all forms of premillennialism together in such a way as to create a strawman, and historic premillennialists are themselves a dying breed.
Very true
If the kingdom is now, the 1000 years must be now too:
Mark 1:15 ESV
and saying, "The time is fulfilled, and *_the kingdom of God is at hand;_* repent and believe in the gospel."
Revelation 1:9 KJV
I John, … *_in the kingdom_* … of Jesus Christ, …
Colossians 1:13 ESV
He has delivered us from the domain of darkness *_and transferred us to the kingdom_* of his beloved Son,
Rev 11:15 The seventh angel sounded his trumpet, and there were loud voices in heaven, which said:
“The kingdom of the world has become
the kingdom of our Lord and of his Messiah,
and he will reign for ever and ever.”
This happens after the 7th trumpet. There has not been a 7th and last trumpet and we know from Matt 24 the Lord will gather together His elect at the sound of the last trumpet.
So if the world isn’t yet His kingdom in the sense Rev 11 puts it, then your understanding of Gods kingdom and timing if out of harmony with the Bible.
Someone is confusing Inaugurated Eschatology for Consummated Eschatology. He addresses this. Thank us for Already/Not Yet
4:26 😂
An excellent defense of Historic Pre-Millennialism!
Well, this was frustrating. As someone exploring the 3 views of eschatology I came to this truly desiring to understand historic premill. I believe that sarcasm is a great distractor of an argument. This was one sarcastic remark after the next masquerading around as exposition. All I know now is that you definitely think you're right and everyone else is an idiot. I did not walk away having a better grasp of historic premillenialism.
We are currently working on getting some Historic Premil content up from a new contributor
My feelings exactly, I have been really digging into Revelation. Combined with all the craziness of this world, I see a spirit of Amalek growing and Christians seem to be oblivious to it, much like the events leading up to the Holocaust.
He expects to go to heaven after the pre-millenial reign?
Great presentation! But doesn’t Isaiah 65:20 imply that there will be death in the millennium? That passage, which Justin Martyr understood as being fulfilled in the Thousand Year Reign, speaks of people dying young at a hundred. Couldn’t there be unglorified survivors that enter into the millennial kingdom like Zechariah 14 mention? Or, what about pregnant Christians at the time of Christ’s second coming? Could some of the unborn babies be unglorified and later grow into the rebellious nations? Lots of wild ideas to be explored here!
Great question!
Your question is brought up in the panel discussion which is also on this channel
Calling God a covenant breaker is really blasphemous.
Though I hold a Preterist view I was willing and interested to hear this man's view... for the first 19 minutes. Then he said one day we'll have to stand before God and account for why we believed what we do about eschatology. What? Let's see a verse for that. It's false, and especially odd to hear it from a Calvinist. God already knows why I believe what I do. There's no Bible Trivia Quiz to enter heaven. There's nothing in anything Jesus ever said to suggest we must have the correct view of eschatology. How absurd! Why would he say it? Probably for the same reason some teach that tithing is a requirement under the new covenant... Because it works for the organization.
Sorry, I won't be able to listen to more. Done here. Let's hear some debates -- That's where the answers are often revealed.
We are holding a live event on Historic Premillennialism this July, and we will have a new presentation from a different speaker, as well as Q&A.
It will be filmed and put on the channel
If Satan is not bound who is the restrainer restraining?
Good point. I'm sure they will say something like the evil in man.
You can just look around the and see Satan isn’t bound anywhere but earth
Voddie, Doug, Durbin, Gore, Kayser, and James White all need to listen to this very much so.
Are they post-mil?
@@dtwoodsurgery yes
Voddie is Amillennial
@@nickcrayne6702 yes,
@@graysonbr I did not find his argument convincing.... I doubt they will, either.
Do you believe in animal sacrifices in the future as per Zechariah 14:16? Or are these spiritual sacrifices of praise and prayer as the new testament teaches? What do you believe about the abomination of Desolation in Matt 24:15? future or past? Literal temple in jerusalem or temple of "the church"? [how can a temple built by antichrists be considered temple of God?]
Sorry to our post-mil brothers and sisters out there, but Shultz’ jabs were pretty darn good and on point. I generally struggle how anybody studying the Bible for themselves under the guidance of the Spirit could possibly accept a doctrinal position like post-mil…rather you definitely need to be taught it by someone else to even pass the entry way to the post-mil room
When there are doctrinal issues with the 3 views i favour Post though brought up A. Post just appears the most glorious and worthy of God.
@@PhilipBaker-sf4yv How one is brought up or what one favours as a personal preference has absolutely nothing to do with truth. Truth is truth, and the truth is Jesus has not yet setup His earthly kingdom, this should be extremely obvious. Yes, He is ruling now, but people forget that as He rules He can do what He pleases, and it may not always look like what we want it to look like.
@matts.6558 i agree with all you say. However i see problems with each of the 3 positions intellectually. The last bit of Isaiah when men live very much longer but do still do still die would lean towards the post millennium position.
My belief in the character of God is he does very much more than the mere minimum his word might suggest. That does not mean that things are going to improve in the West any time soon as we are under judgement. Really i think we are as clueless about the second coming as the Jews were about his first coming. So i am hoping for post and from scripture i think it no less likely than the other 2. It is always a concern to me when there are issues that sincere Christians disagree. Those issues must be of secondary importance as the Spirit leads us into all truth
@PhilipBaker-sf4yv I don’t think this statement is accurate “Really i think we are as clueless about the second coming as the Jews were about his first coming.” I think this is a confused and vague way of approaching the scriptures and such vagueness can in some cases permit the insertion of possibilities and outcomes that are nowhere near the truth. To think Jesus hasn’t left His sheep with clear instructions is an insult to God, that sounds more like the bad shepherd and not the good shepard, because last time I checked a Shepard’s role is to lead, guide and protect a flock. So how could he do this is we are clueless about His return? I hope you realize this makes no sense. I believe you have been bamboozled by the thoughts, theories and philosophies of men.
Brother Philip, Amil is wrong, the devil is not bound right now, and all the other nonsense is teaches is not based in reality.
Postmil is wrong, how do you know very simply? The answer is infinitely simple if you can allow yourself to grasp it. Jesus nor His apostles were nor ever acted postmil. Either way you slice postmil is about converted Christian nations and a converted Christian world. Jesus never did this or stated it as his goal (be very careful with Matt 28 which is clearly only speaking about nations as a “peoples”) nor did His Apostles. Jesus preached separation from a world under the influence of evil one or god of this world
Christ is coming back to rule over this world, it’s very clear in scripture. This is the real reason some of the Jews missed His first coming, was because they didn’t understand the whole counsel of God and just eft the suffering servant part out of it because they didn’t like it. Those that know Him hear His voice and follow Him.
The key thing that exists today, and is and always will be a focal point of controversy, that should be a iron-clad way for you to know where we are at in Biblical prophecy and God’s timeline, is what Philip?
My guess is your probably a Calvinist, could be wrong, and you give a great deal of importance to the Reformers, etc. The key thing above did not exist in their day.
@matts.6558 my reason for thinking we are pretty clueless on the second coming is because there are sincere Christians who hold post, a Millenialist and historic premillenialist views. I doubt you are saying that it is only the premilenialist that gets led into all truth. These things are sealed up until the end times when things will become progressively more clearer.
As for being influenced by worldly philosophy I struggle to beleive anything the ungodly say on almost everything.
Regarding Israel i was interested to hear the speaker say that if the State of Israel disappeared it would not shake his theology. Clearly there must be a big difference between the historic pre and the dispensationists.
Yes I am a calvinist i think at the end there will be a great ingathering of Jewish people and also think that the fact that the State of Israel has been re established seems to be prophetically significant. How this all fits together I dont really know and i dont think others are as clear about it as they think they are. I do think the dispensationalists are wrong in thinking Jesus must return before the USA gets greatly inconvenienced!
All believers will not be in the millennium. Only the martyers and the ones still alive at the time of the rapture. Also the great white throne judgement is not just for the damned its also for the righteous who still had not been ressurected .
I really don’t understand the sarcasm and insults.
Brother Michael was using humor to lighten up a heavy theological day. That being said, it was probably easier to digest in the immediate context, rather than on video.
Not everyone's cup of tea for sure. Ty for commenting!
@andreastarks2780
Maybe you don't understand the humor because there wasn't one single insult in this video.
I felt the same way as Andrea about the sarcasm and insults. While we must be assertive to proclaim truth, I think it can, and should be toned down.
😂😂😂😂😂😂
Yes, this view as other stated was historic pre-mil until the very end. Then it switched to New Creation Millennialism.
An astute observation, but I would disagree!
While I'm excited about the fleshing out of the New Creation Millennialistic view in the next several years, the view defended here is what has for centuries been known as Historic Premillennialism. Dispensationalism introduced the view that the glorified and unglorified will exist alongside one another in the Millennium - we must not allow that view to be reverse-applied onto Historic Premillennialism as if that is what we have always believed.
@@hmichaelshultzjr No that is wrong. The bible says that the millennium will be populated by regular people who live, work , marry and die. The raptured saints will not live among them but rule and judge the people along with Jesus . The Great White Throne judgement is the resurrection and judgement of the damned and righteous who were not a part of the rapture.
@@christiansoldier77 lol
@@hmichaelshultzjr You are laughing at the bible because that is what it says.
@@christiansoldier77 double lol.
Eschatology does matter. It's how we distinguish good teaching from bad. Historic pastors thought that the world was flat and the earth was the center of the solar system. They also believed they were in a virtual millennial reign not having the perspective of actually seeing Ezekiel 36:1-29 and Jeremiah 3:14-17 (as well as other prophets). But now that we do see the regathered Israel back in the land of Canaan, we don't hold those old views anymore. We also now understand that the world is round and orbits the sun along with the other planets in our system. So, as Daniel states that during the end times.... _knowledge shall increase_ -Dan 12:4. Let's not let go of the knowledge and revelations we've been given and adopt old dead wives tales like Satan is subdued and that we are in the 1000 year reign of Christ (figuratively because it's been 2000 years now). That has not started yet! The harvest takes place first folks. Please see Matthew 13 for more on this.
Very good and funny! A smaller issue however is the statement that no unbelievers or mortals will be present in the millennial kingdom. That I think is not correct. Plenty of people will go through the great tribulation and survive. Most of them will no doubt be given the Holy Spirit and so believe right after the very return of Christ, but some will behold Him and remain unbelievers. At the end of the millennial reign there will again be a great apostasy and a last rebellion of mortals living on the Earth led by the then newly released Devil. By people who were born and had lived under the direct rule of Christ, but who were not granted faith. So on that small point Shultz and John Gill are simply wrong.
The pride on this guy is crazy
I hope you know this guy very well to make such a hateful statement about someone claiming to be a follower of Christ. Matthew 7:2 & Proverbs 18:13.
You mean your pride 😅. Bye Felicia
He says Satan wasn't bound by the cross but defeated. Then he says that at the conclusion of the millennium Satan is released. Released is the opposite of bound.
He's awfully confident in using obscure, allegorical genres to interpret clear passages.
How about describing the kingdom using Jesus's many descriptions of it?
The "kingdom" is handed over to the Father at the coming of Jesus according to Paul in 1 Co 15. That is non- allegorical, straight forward teaching that at the second coming of Jesus, the "kingdom", that was taken from Israel and given to a "nation" that bears its fruit i.e., the Church, is at some kind of completed state at Jesus' return or, at the very least, it's already in existence in order for it to be given to the Father.
Any form of premillenialism, call it historic or classic if you'd like, is false and it doesn't matter if John, himself believed it. Paul thought the whole council of God.
Then at the end, he accuses amills of believing that the promised land is a spiritual promise. No, its just that while we wait for this kingdom called the New Covenant to be completed in order to restore the Earth, remove the curse, and defeat death itself AS the promise, we enjoy a spiritual place, raised and seated with Christ with the Spirit indwelling, the deposit that guarantees our inheritance and the redemption of our bodies when Christ redeems His purchased possession
@@contemplate-Matt.GAmen.
Right. When Jesus comes again He hands the completed kingdom over to the Father the same day (1Cor 15:24,28).
Revelation 1:9 KJV
I John, … *_in the kingdom_* … of Jesus Christ, …
Colossians 1:13 ESV
He has delivered us from the domain of darkness *_and transferred us to the kingdom_* of his beloved Son,
@@Used777_07 yes...why is it so hard for others to see the plain teaching of Scripture?
@@contemplate-Matt.Gbecause you guys deny the fact that after the 7th trumpet The kingdom of the world becomes the kingdom of Christ. You guys deny all the scriptures and promises both in the old and new testament which are many, to make sense of a few that speak of whose left after Jesus comes when there are better biblical views out there that will not dissmiss those plentiful other scriptures as allegory.
OK. Had to stop at the outset. He's a great speaker, engaging and funny... however, inaccurate he may be.
He made a number of demonstrably false statements in the beginning. For instance, he claimed that for the first 300 yrs the church was "almost universally" premill. This is false and has been demonstrated time and again. For instance, I'd point to Dr. Hill's doctoral dissertation as evidence.
Simply that we may assume this is what was taught by the disciples, is fine. Except that assumes we believe that Jesus taught them this. Read the Gospels. He actually didn't, and if He did, it's not recorded. In fact, if you read what He did say, when the disciples asked about the Kingdom (while they assumed premill because of their cultural context), He never actually affirmed their understanding, did He? No He didn't. They assumed the Kingdom would appear suddenly. How did Jesus respond? How did Daniel see it? How does Jesus' mustard tree resemble Nebuchadnezzar's tree? And are the differences between those two kings?
Moreover, "Chiliasm" (or "premillennialism") was developed, roughly, 100 yrs or so before Jesus was born. And although not all teachers agreed with it, it became the dominant view. Now, what was going on in Jewish culture at that time, and do you think that would have lead to such a teaching?
Lastly, among the teachers who actually did accept Chiliasm, they couldn't agree on what a "Millennium" was. Opinions varied between 70 years to 7,000 years.
There's much more, but if you're new to this, what I have written may be a lot.
If your views are so right why all the nonsense of putting down others? I don't believe that to be God honoring.
I am postmill, but have to say that was very compelling
True. I myself am still figuring out my way between pre and post. In a way, all positions have good points. One of the reasons why we have to stay humble, listen to each other and not make this a reason for division. Blessings.
Is this guy a Calvinist?
Historic premillennialism is the clear teaching of the bible. Why are so many so blind that they can't understand this fact?
Because everyone who isnt with Christ dies at the end of Rev 19. Who are the nations being ruled over in Rev 20? Jesus clearly stated that the graves will open and the unrighteous get a rez of condemnation at that point. 1 Corinth 15 clearly says death is the LAST enemy to be destroyed and this happens at the resurrection which is at the Last Day which is his 2nd coming.
@@kimmykimko Everyone does not die. The bible doesnt say that. The armies that are trying to fight Jesus will die . Everyone else will go into the millennium. After the millennium will be The Great White Throne judgement of the righteous and the wicked . Then we go into eternity. The resurrection is not at the second coming.
The irony.
What if modern day dispys and historic pre mill both make some mistakes. I agree with 99% of this but God has not forsaken his promises to Israel. Roman’s 11. This remnant is the 144,000. They are temporarily blinded till Christ returns and we see Zechariah’s prophecy of them weeping and returning to Him. We do not escape the tribulation. We suffer alongside Israel and become one flock when he returns. Temple sacrifice resuming better catch your attention. It won’t be meaningless.
As noted in the video, it seems fairly clear by the New Testament testimony that we are not going to "become one flock when he returns" but that the Church and Israel are already one flock. This seems to be the obvious conclusion of Galatians, especially Galatians 3.
Regarding you specifically, it seems that you are looking for Post-Tribulational Dispensationalism, which is a view. This is something that I briefly mention at the outset of the video when I say, "You might think I am just a Dispy who believes in the rapture at the end..." That is a real view - and there are a few noteworthy scholars who have held to that view. If you believe the scriptures point towards that conclusion, I recommend you map it out comprehensively and see if all the scriptures work in conjunction in that view.
@@hmichaelshultzjr thank you for the reply. I really enjoyed the video BTW. I’m up against a wall with the Post-mill guys growing in my church, so I especially appreciated this video. I do agree we are one flock now, and in Christ there is no distinction. I’ve never really considered myself a dispensationalist as there seems to be 100 degrees of it. I try to just understand what the scriptures say at face value when held up against the entirety of the Bible. I do feel God still can have a plan for the nation of Israel and have a remnant of blinded Jews that come to Christ when he returns to rescue them out of captivity. The problem I have with creating a category or systematic theology for every belief system is sometimes you just can’t fully capture the whole mystery in scripture. There are many paradoxes in scripture that seem like competing ideas but in essence both are true. This is hard to wrap our minds around at times but there are many examples. Election versus choice, 100% God and 100% man, God in three persons, etc. To me there is way too much detail in the OT prophecy of God restoring the nation of Israel and them repenting at His coming. Roman’s 11 expands on this mystery. I also cannot allegorize the temples role in prophecy either.
@@kingsolomon3175 I completely understand the battle going on with Postmillennialism. We are on the verge of a major world war - and I am fairly certain that will once again be the end of Postmillennialism for at least another generation. Postmil tends to grow when things are going well and then we all fall out of bed and are forced to come out of our dreams.
As for the Israelite conversion at the return of Christ, I entirely affirm that. I even believe that the promise of Zechariah that “I will pour out on them a spirit of grace and they will mourn for him when they look on him whom they pierced like an only son” refers to that conversion of Jews at the return of Christ. That is entirely compatible with Historic Premillennialism
@@hmichaelshultzjr so does historic pre-mill position believe that the temple in revelation is allegory or, do you believe that portion of revelation (seals) were fulfilled in 70ad. I guess I need to research this position more. I’ve always seemed to be caught in between postys and dispys trying to figure out why there seems to be nobody else like me that believes in pre-mill that doesn’t buy the left behind nonsense. So this was refreshing, but I do still think Daniels 70th week is future, mainly because chapter 8 and 9 flow together. The end of 8 the angel emphasizes that the 2300 days for the start of regular sacrifice, abominations and temple restoration is for the “appointed time of the end”. Daniel doesn’t understand, then the angel returns to give him the 70 weeks prophecy as clarification. So one of those weeks must be the explanation for this 2300 days at the appointed time of the end. That being the last one since it describes the same events. So the 2300 days is within the final 2,520. Meaning regular sacrifice would begin roughly 220 days after the covenant is signed. Plus many other references in OT prophecy about this covenant as well resulting in Israel’s desolation.
@@kingsolomon3175 There is room within the HP camp for individuals who take the tribulation as being future, and even those who would expect a 7 year tribulation in compliance with that interpretation of Daniel. That is not my position, but it is a viable one in our camp.
So, while I do take the Revelation references to the Temple allegorically myself, I know that is not the position of others.
Excellent video. Well done.
However, an assumption was made about those who enter the Millennium. It claims that all the unsaved die. That isn't what Revelation says. It says that lots and lots of people die. It's safe to say that all who take The Mark, die.
However, please note that The Mark must be taken voluntarily, otherwise the Antichrist could impose it upon us. The Mark is about worship, and you must be old enough to do so.
There will be millions of children too young to take The Mark or worship the Antichrist. THEY will go into the Millennium and will grow in population for a thousand years, until the time when Satan is released to deceive them.
You did well until contradicting yourself buy shuffling verses and putting ressurection at the end of 1000 years before destruction at Gog and Magog. There will be nations on earth when satan is released whom he will deceive. Be consistent.