Sam Storms From Premil to Amil, His Talk With John Piper and Doug Wilson, and Christian Nationalism
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- Опубликовано: 26 авг 2024
- Dr Sam Storms discusses how he went from a Dispensational Premillennialist to an Amillennialist, his discussion with John Piper, Doug Wilson and James Hamilton on An Evening of Eschatology, his thoughts on Premil and Amil, the current trend in Postmillennialism, and thoughts on Christian Nationalism
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Great interview!
I think that Dr. Hamilton would be an interesting conversation if you had him on. I also would love to see you talk with Tom Schreiner on his New Covenant Millennialism view.
We've tried to get James on to no avail, we'll look into Schreiner ty
Thank you for the very interesting interview Josh. After listening to it, I am leaning more towards amillenium than ever. This is one of the best interviews I've heard on eschatology. Thanks again!😊
Dr. Storms is on to something with his observation at 20:00 about the resurgence of Postmillennialism at the same time as a politically fraught time period. Since my Amill position doesn't have any satisfying response to the chaos, the Postmill answers seem more compelling than an empty stare. It's in part why I was so fascinated in Dr. Storms' political engagement with Piper and others during the last election cycle. It was good to see an Amill get involved and yet stay in his own lane.
How was their engagement? I wasn't aware of them engaging politically
Im studying AMill now. Im either that or Historic but I'm def leaning Christ is now ruling and 1000 yrs can be symbolic. Can you or anyone who sees this explain to me AMills take on the Anti-Christ and seeming End Times, mark of beast wars rumors of wars etc?? Thank you!
"Too often modern Christians forget that the Church is not just an institution, but the Kingdom of God that is here but is still to come. The Church is described as the Bride of Christ. We are betrothed to Christ. The second coming is the wedding day and the final consummation. Therefore, we live this present life in two dimensions: as saved and yet hoping for salvation; as betrothed to Christ and yet in anticipation and anxiety for the consummation of the marriage; as joyful and yet penitent; as having everything and yet possessing nothing; as living in this world and yet “having here no continuing city”; as in the world yet not of the world; as being members of Christ’s Church, receiving the new life of baptism and eternal life in the Eucharist; and yet as striving to be made worthy of the Kingdom to come. This double character of Christian life is absolutely essential to the Church’s spirituality and role within society. Awaiting the Kingdom of God by no means amounts to being disinterested in the present world, but the exact opposite. It is this present world that is the stage on which the history of salvation is taking place. This life is the history of eternity. The present world and the world to come cannot be separated."
- Fr. Vassilios Papavassiliou
Thanks great interview!
Thank God, i did study a lot but never had to go to any school (like any of the apostles save Paul) to understand things. Not by mans understanding, nor of words of wisdom etc...God reveals it in you when you are ready, and like having a baby, sometimes youre never ready but he has to show you just the same, cause its your lot.
Love these interviews with different views. Thanks.
There is no need to take the reference to this millenni-um, this one thousand years, as a literal one. This is a symbolic number, in a symbolic chapter, in a highly symbolic book. Throughout Scripture, it is used as a place holder for a very large number-the number of hills where God owns the cattle (Ps. 50:10), the number of enemy soldiers that one Israelite will pursue (Josh. 23:10), and the number of generations with whom God keeps covenant (Deut. 7:9).
And references to a thousand years are also obviously figurative. "For a thousand years in thy sight are but as yesterday when it is past, and as a watch in the night" (Ps. 90:4; cf. Eccl. 6:6, 2 Pet. 3:8).
"Inspired Principles for Prophetic Interpretation", by John Wilmot (out of print).
Sam Storms is awesome man of God!
Yes Sam, you're right ! How Jesus could come back and judge, if the world has turned christians leaded ? no need for Jesus to judge to the grace of God ! Postmills and Premills are wrong !
Amillennialism is plain fact!
Cherebyah
I am Amil, however I don’t believe that is what postmils affirm… according to postmils sin will continue until the end of the age. It is just that sin won’t have dominion. But Jesus, and yet, when he comes back he must judge to the world dead and living people.
Our founding fathers were better Christians than we are. Thank God for them.
absolutely not most of them been false teachers
I would love to come on the podcast. I'm martin ,I've been writing on eschatology for 5yrs now. Primarily been writing on Facebook and working on publishing some books on eschatology among others.
Dont forget knowledge will increase. As this happens we get a better view. Things are happening in the World that can help us understand more clearly. But only those with eyes to see can see it. Of course the enemy tries to "exalt themselves to establish the vision." But we can all seek God and ask for revelation. Dont be deceived.
The only way to get rid of sin, is to get rid of flesh. When the mortal puts on immortality, at His coming, and the wicked are burnt up by His Presence, that's when sin will reign no more; a point post millennials don't understand.
This denies the power of the incarnation, and the redemption of our physical bodies. The second person of the triune God put on flesh to be the new Adam and restore man, not obliterate him.
26:15
Facts! My true nation is the Kingdom of Christ.
I've read his book. Very interesting, but I was not persuaded; I still lean post-millennial. However, I do not make agreement with me on the issue a test of fellowship.
Post mil denies the bible. The falling away, the lawlessness and things getting worse and the fact its written in Daniel and revelation that the beast will overcome the saints.
@@kimmykimko-- Not denial, just different interpretation of those passages.
Dispensationalism is dead
#datpostmil
Unfortunately not yet.
I give it max 50 more years. But it’s death can’t come soon enough.
@@sarahd5341 Maybe.... it depends on how long the MIS holds up
@@janettelewis6681 soon. But not yet :)
There is no need to take the reference to this millenni-um, this one thousand years, as a literal one. This is a symbolic number, in a symbolic chapter, in a highly symbolic book. Throughout Scripture, it is used as a place holder for a very large number-the number of hills where God owns the cattle (Ps. 50:10), the number of enemy soldiers that one Israelite will pursue (Josh. 23:10), and the number of generations with whom God keeps covenant (Deut. 7:9).
And references to a thousand years are also obviously figurative. "For a thousand years in thy sight are but as yesterday when it is past, and as a watch in the night" (Ps. 90:4; cf. Eccl. 6:6, 2 Pet. 3:8).
The millennium IS the Church now. The new earth and heavens is the church age. hence NEW akin to sin defeated at the cross and Satan no longer able to affect nations as he once did. The strong man is bound. The Church is the new Jerusalem.
It sounds to me like Sam is very much like the Dispensationalists in judging where the world is going by looking at its current state in his current time period. Which is called a vapour in the scriptures.
He says he doesn’t see PostMillennialism in the scriptures but I’d be curious how he exegetes 1 Corinthians 15:24-26;
“Then comes the end, when he delivers the kingdom to God the Father after destroying every rule and every authority and power. For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. The last enemy to be destroyed is death.”
1 Corinthians 15:24-26 ESV
So if Sam agrees with the PostMill that Christ is in his kingdom now. And he must reign UNTIL his enemies are footstooled…when will that be?
Seems pretty clear that his enemies will be footstooled during human history. One by one.
Yes PostMillennialism is seeing a resurgence and I can understand the opinion that it’s because we see the West falling and we want to be optimistic. However I came to this view by the scriptures. I had not thought much about eschatology before. Many Christians don’t actually investigate their view. I think the fall of the West is forcing us to figure out the kingdom of God and our place in it.
I think the West is declining because the church embraced pessimistic/let it all burn/it’s all going to hell in a handbasket anyway/Satan is the god of this world/rapture/escapist eschatology.
Scripture actually teaches that Christ is victorious in this world and he will have the nations.
The great commission will succeed and Christ will have his inheritance (Psalm 2).
#datpostmill
Great, thoughtful response, ty!
Jesus is ruling and reigning now from heaven through His Church:
(1Cor 15:25 For *_he must reign_* until he has put all his enemies under his feet). Paul said Jesus defeated all His enemies but one - death, through the Cross:
Colossians 2:15 KJV
And *_having spoiled principalities and powers,_* he made a shew of them openly, *_triumphing over them_* in it.
Jesus began His ministry proclaiming the Kingdom of God had arrived:
(Mark 1:15 KJV And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: …)
John, and all Believers, are transferred to Christ's Kingdom at the new birth. Jesus then turns over His completed kingdom to the Father on the DAY He returns (not 1000 years later), according to your own 1Cor 15:24 Scripture.
Revelation 1:9 KJV
I John, … *_in the kingdom_* … of Jesus Christ, …
Colossians 1:13 ESV
He has delivered us from the domain of darkness *_and transferred us to the kingdom_* of his beloved Son,
Jesus has already defeated the four kingdoms of Daniel's prophecy, the final one being Rome, and He rules the nations now through His invisible Church, located in every nation.
Daniel 2:40,44 KJV
And the fourth kingdom shall be strong as iron: forasmuch as iron breaketh in pieces and subdueth all things: and as iron that breaketh all these, shall it break in pieces and bruise.
[44] And *_in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed:_* and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but *_it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever._*
Couldn’t agree with your last three paragraphs more. Amen.
There is no need to take the reference to this millenni-um, this one thousand years, as a literal one. This is a symbolic number, in a symbolic chapter, in a highly symbolic book. Throughout Scripture, it is used as a place holder for a very large number-the number of hills where God owns the cattle (Ps. 50:10), the number of enemy soldiers that one Israelite will pursue (Josh. 23:10), and the number of generations with whom God keeps covenant (Deut. 7:9).
And references to a thousand years are also obviously figurative. "For a thousand years in thy sight are but as yesterday when it is past, and as a watch in the night" (Ps. 90:4; cf. Eccl. 6:6, 2 Pet. 3:8).
Play promise 1st Corinthians 15 doesn't agree with you because you have to have resurrection of saints or resurrected
There is no need to take the reference to this millenni-um, this one thousand years, as a literal one. This is a symbolic number, in a symbolic chapter, in a highly symbolic book. Throughout Scripture, it is used as a place holder for a very large number-the number of hills where God owns the cattle (Ps. 50:10), the number of enemy soldiers that one Israelite will pursue (Josh. 23:10), and the number of generations with whom God keeps covenant (Deut. 7:9).
And references to a thousand years are also obviously figurative. "For a thousand years in thy sight are but as yesterday when it is past, and as a watch in the night" (Ps. 90:4; cf. Eccl. 6:6, 2 Pet. 3:8).
The millennium IS the Church now. The new earth and heavens is the church age. hence NEW akin to sin defeated at the cross and Satan no longer able to affect nations as he once did. The strong man is bound. The Church is the new Jerusalem.
12 tribes x 12 apostles x 1,000 years = 144,000 - the prophetic elect that can not be counted - amillennialism in a nutshell.
There is no need to take the reference to this millenni-um, this one thousand years, as a literal one. This is a symbolic number, in a symbolic chapter, in a highly symbolic book. Throughout Scripture, it is used as a place holder for a very large number-the number of hills where God owns the cattle (Ps. 50:10), the number of enemy soldiers that one Israelite will pursue (Josh. 23:10), and the number of generations with whom God keeps covenant (Deut. 7:9).
And references to a thousand years are also obviously figurative. "For a thousand years in thy sight are but as yesterday when it is past, and as a watch in the night" (Ps. 90:4; cf. Eccl. 6:6, 2 Pet. 3:8).
Popping a Tylenol just to read? Is this some sort of elderly joke I'm too youthful to understand? Or merely a horrifying inevitability?
The simplest way to destroy Amillennialism is to read the whole of Scripture in context, when ever prophetic statements are made in the New Testament it has a reference in the Old Testament. There is one chapter in Daniel that Amills and Pretribers avoid because it plainly says that the Church will be persecuted by antichrist (Pretribers error) and that the antichrist’s dominion is handed over to Christs rule and the Saints for a season and a time where John reveals this to be a thousand years.
Daniel 7: 12 to 14 and 26, 27.
To this Amillennialism and Pretribulationism are fraudulent and are based on the old Satanic lie at the time of the Fall, “Did God really say”.
So are you historic premillennialism?
@@jsong8282 yes, I believe that God’s Word is truth and that the prophets within the Old Testament, points to the restoration of mankind and God’s creation. The Scriptures teaches us that the Messiah will come and rule physically here on the earth. It was the Sadducees and Gnostics who started the ball rolling with their antichrist spirit and planted weeds within the Church, to teach another Gospel. Through Church history those of the anti-millennium physical reign of Christ on the earth have been the abusive servant who beats his fellow servants because the Lord is delayed in His coming.