A Millennium Puzzle to solve… Will Christ be conducting funeral services for mortals killed in accidents 500 years after His Second Coming? The “first resurrection” in Rev. chapter 20 is not the first bodily resurrection in the Book of Revelation, because the two witnesses are resurrected from the dead in chapter 11. There are two different types of resurrection in John chapter 5. There is a spiritual resurrection from the dead in John 5:24, and a bodily resurrection from the dead in John 5:28-29. My view of the Millennium agrees with what Paul said in 2 Thess. 1:7-10, when Paul said Christ returns in "flaming fire" taking vengeance on those who do not obey the Gospel. The fire comes at the end of Rev. chapter 20. My view agrees with what Peter said in 2 Peter 3:10-13, when Peter said this earth is going to burn and "dissolve" when He comes as a thief on the day of the Lord. The fire comes at the end of Rev. chapter 20. My view agrees with what Paul said in 2 Tim. 4:1, when Paul said both the living and the dead will be judged at His appearing. The time of the judgment of the dead, with reward for some and destruction for others is found in Rev. 11:18, right after the 7th trumpet, which is the last trumpet in the Bible. (This verse also proves the Book of Rev. is not in chronological order.) The judgment of the dead is also found at the end of Rev. chapter 20. My view agrees with what Jesus said in Matt. 25:31-46, where He described the judgment of the sheep and goats, which leaves no mortals alive on the planet at the end of the passage. There are also no mortals left alive on the planet at the end of Rev. chapter 19. My view agrees with Peter in 2 Pet. 2:4, and Jude in Jude 1:6, when they both said wicked angels are already in chains of darkness. My view agrees with what John recorded in Rev. 9:1-2, when an angel comes down from heaven with a key to unlock the pit, which means the pit was locked before that time. Are there wicked angels already in the pit in Rev. 9:11? John recorded angels already "bound" in Rev. 9:14. The beast "ascends" out of the pit in Rev. chapter 11, which means the beast was in the pit before that time. Take all of the above and compare it to the symbolic language found in Rev. chapter 20, and the fact the Book of Revelation is not in chronological order, and you will have the truth.
This is the best discussion I’ve heard between people with differing eschatological views. Everyone was so respectful of each other’s views, and treated each other so well. Great job.
I was fully rapture theory, our bible study used McArthur s study guide on Revelations, after the study I came out with more questions than answers, I found the partial preterist position very helpful with the destruction of Jerusalem being central to Mathew 24. I am in the Postmil camp, but reading the whole bible to better understandm
I also used Mac Study Bible, it’s a good tool but he is disp. I turned amil after reading the promises of the Old Testament with the New in Christ. Still considering Postmillenialism, but not completely convinced.
Same here. Used to disp. premil but now am a postmil. If you want to know more about postmil, here's a documentary. ruclips.net/video/jchu--KWvDw/видео.html
Partial preterist is a futurist. There is ONE Verse that has the numerical number 2nd coming. And it’s tied with SALVATION.. Hebrews 9: 28 so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation. So.. if your waiting for the 2nd coming.. then you and Israel.. those who accepted Jesus in the Bible days.. don’t have salvation.. I urge you all to rethink what Jesus 2nd coming is.. and what’s tied into it.
I love this discussion especially the last few minutes. Though they all have different perspectives on how we reach the end of the age they all arrive at the same conclusion. A glorious eternity awaits the people of God!
I feel that the ancient Hebrew (Galilean) wedding, and also the fall feasts of the Lord, are so important when it comes to getting a clear picture of the discussion of “end-times”, the bride of Christ, the catching up of the bride, and everything else that follows thereafter. Not knowing the day or the hour is wedding talk, only the Father knows, this is wedding talk. Now Christ fulfilled the spring feasts in succession. He will also fulfill the fall feasts in like manner. The study of the fall feasts gives us a clear understanding of the end times and the second coming of our Lord. The fall feasts are all through the book of Revelation. God bless you all for this discussion!
I think i hear something familiar in your argument, I don't mean argument pre se', but the feasts are there i believe too. I just watched a similar round table with 4 fellows, it was hard to watch and I received a lot more from these gentlemen. Thanks
I agree that this is a very helpful presentation, done in the right spirit all the way around. I was pleasantly surprised at the concessions Dr. Akin made to the other views, but it leads me to say this. Dispensationalism is not losing steam in a world where David Jeremiah, John Hagee, and Tim Lahaye still reign over the hearts of the vast majority of evangelicals.
I'm not a dispensationalist but Buist Fanning and Robert L. Thomas represent the system best today. The problem with Progressive Dispensationalism is that its hermeneutic allows for interpretations that undermine the very system. Im not a premillennialist but I prefer Progressive Dispensationalism vs Traditional Dispensationalism. That tells you a lot about Progressive Dispensationalism. It tends very much toward the inaugurated eschatology of George Ladd, which is why Progressive Dispensationalists get so much flack about their name from Traditional Dispensationalists. But yes, in American Evangelicalism, Dispensationalism still has a strong voice, but more and more are departing from it. Just my experience of churches. Sorry for the rant! Love this subject.
@@Logalactic ruclips.net/p/PLk8Km0D988EnOPXBcC72ehaxt_fvDyde6 This is the series I teach which indicates the PEOPLE of the Tribulation and gives hope inside of it. All of my view is Biblically based. Check it out.
@@DrScottYoung 36 years studying and you still think it's pre-trib? I didn't click the link but can deduce that's your position because of the word "tribulation" and your name. The scholars I respect most believe the "tribulation" spoken about was around 66 AD, and lasted 42 months, culminating in 70 AD with the destruction of Jerusalem.
@@democratpro Starting off by insulting me isn't best way to communicate with a brother in Christ "36 years studying..." Firstly, those who believe in your view (including "Scholars") have to answer the following: 1. Who are the 144K in Rev 7:1-8? 2. When did Jesus SHOW UP IN THE CLOUDS Rev 14:14,16? 3. Rev 8-9 indicates the fourth trumpet in which plumes blow up in the planet from a comet, then ugly creatures come forth fifth trumpet to harm the people who are NOT sealed of God and CANNOT die for five months, then backed up to Rev 9:15 beauty in which "the four angels were held back for the hour, day, month and year"? I could go on with 600 verses indicating a Tribulation and 300 verses indicating a Millennial Reign. Those who wish to marginalize Scripture (those Scholars you mention) by saying that they were all analogies or metaphors, never know when to stop. If I marginalize one piece of the Word, I would point you to Rev 22...those who add to the Word, I will add to you the plagues that are within it, those who take away from the Words of this book, I will take away your position in the Book of Life. So instead of trying to marginalize others who talk, enter a dialogue which is much more friendly with your brother in Christ in whom you will spend an eternity with...
At the 23 minute mark to the end is spot on. Upon his return he will explain/reveal this to everyone. It’s really pretty simple and will make absolute sense. All in due time. He is here.
It was great to have all of them interacting in the way they did! Pablo thank you for watching and make sure to subscribe for more great content like this!
@@SEBTS Since the New Covenant is “everlasting” in Hebrews 13:20, how is the New Covenant Church age going to end before the Second Coming of Christ? Why would anyone think God is going back to the Old Covenant system now made “obsolete” by the New Covenant in Hebrews 8:13? We are not come to Mount Sinai in Hebrews 12:18. We are come instead to the New Covenant church of Mount Zion and the blood in Hebrews 12:22-24. Once a person comes to understand the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, which is found fulfilled by Christ during the first century in Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, and specifically applied to the Church in 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, and Hebrews 12:22-24, modern Dispensational Theology falls apart, and the pretrib removal of the Church falls with it. The Capitol "C" Church, as we use the word today, is not found in the entire Book of Revelation. Individual church bodies in ancient Asia Minor are found. In Revelation 12:11 we find those under the blood of the Lamb. A person cannot be under the blood of the Lamb and not be a part of the New Covenant Church of Jesus Christ. Verse 12 of this passage proves at least part of the tribulation period is the wrath of Satan upon the people of God. Rev 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. Rev 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time. "It may come as a surprise to most pre-Trib prophecy students that the post-Trib position (in its primitive form) is the oldest point of view." The quotation above is from the book "Will You Escape The Tribulation? RAPTURE [Under Attack]", by Tim LaHaye, copyright 1998, Page 197. The gathering of the Church is described at the end of 1 Thess. Chapter 4, and the timing of the event is found in chapter 5. The word “But” in the first verse of chapter 5 connects the two chapters, and the words “we” and “sleep” in verse 10 of chapter 5 prove the two chapters are connected.
Print out some copies of the following and give it out to your fellow students and professors, if you want to stimulate a good discussion. Multiple Second Coming Visions in Revelation: (book not in chronological order ) Christ returns at the end of Revelation chapter 6, with signs in the sun, moon, and stars, as are found in the Olivet Discourse. Those at the end of the chapter are hiding from the wrath of the Lamb. Why would they be hiding if Christ is not present? The "kings", "captains", "might men", "free", and "bond" are also found in chapter 19 at the return of Christ. He returns at the 7th trumpet, which is the last trumpet in the Bible, and the time of the judgment of the dead in Revelation 11:15-18. The beginning of chapter 12 is a history lesson containing the fall of Satan, and the birth and death of Christ, who is the seed promised to crush the head of Satan in Genesis 3:15. The Second Coming is found in the "harvest" of chapter 14, which is related to the parable of the wheat and tares in Matthew chapter 13. He comes as a thief at Armageddon, and we find the greatest earthquake in history in chapter 16. This occurs when the 7th angel pours out his vial. How powerful is an earthquake which moves islands and destroys the mountains? What is happening to the planet? He comes on a horse in chapter 19. Chapter 20? Does He come with the fire, and the judgment of the dead at the end of chapter 20, which agrees with what Paul said in 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10, and 2 Timothy 4:1? (The time of the judgment of the dead is also found in Revelation 11:18.) There are no mortals left alive on the planet at the end of Matthew 25:31-46. Why does an angel come down from heaven with a key to unlock the bottomless pit in Revelation 9:1-2, if the pit was not already locked? Revelation 9:14 proves some of the angels were previously bound in some manner. Because the two witnesses were bodily resurrected from the dead in Revelation 11, the "first resurrection" at the beginning of Revelation 20 is not the first bodily resurrection in the book. The principle of "Recapitulation" means there are multiple visions of His return. ==================================================================== Revelation 20: Does your interpretation agree with all other scripture? (Chronological or Recapitulation?) (Literal vs. Figurative?) Based on the following scripture, will immortals and mortals both live on earth for 1,000 years after the Second Coming of Christ? Will there be renewed animal sacrifices in earthly Jerusalem for 1,000 years after the Second Coming of Christ? Will Christ conduct funeral services for mortals killed in accidents many years after His Second Coming? Graveyards needed? Can the following questions be examined without ridicule, and condemnation, based on the New Covenant promised in Jeremiah 31:31-34, and found fulfilled in Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, and Hebrews 12:18-24? Can the number 1,000 be used in a symbolic manner? Psalm 50:10 Does an angel with a key come from heaven and open the bottomless pit in Revelation 9:1-2? Why did the angel have to unlock the pit if it was not locked previously? Who is the king of the angels in the bottomless pit found in Revelation 9:11? Are some of the angels “bound” in some manner in Revelation 9:14? If the beast comes up out of the pit in Revelation 11:7, where is the beast before then? John sees “souls” at the beginning of Revelation chapter 20. Are these the same “souls” found in Revelation 6:9-11? Is the “first resurrection” in Revelation 20:5 the first bodily resurrection in the Book of Revelation? (Rev. 11:11) Are there two different types of resurrections in John chapter 5? John 5:24 (Spiritual) ? Were you dead, and now you are alive? John 5:27-30 Christ describes the bodily resurrection and “hour” of judgment of “all” the dead. Who is the “strong man” who is bound in Matthew 12:26-29? How is Satan “bound” in Revelation 20:3? How many mortals are left alive on the planet at the end of Matthew 25:31-46? Isaiah 65:17-25? Are people really dying in verse 20? Context, Context, Context… The New Heavens and New Earth are found at the beginning of the passage, and the end of the curse is found at the end of the passage. What happens if verse 20 begins with a negative statement? "There will be no more..." Was Paul expecting Christ to return "in flaming fire", taking vengeance on those who do not know God in 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10? How would mortals survive this fire? Does the fire come at the end of Revelation 20? Did Paul expect both the living and the dead to be judged at the appearing of Christ, in 2 Timothy 4:1? When is the judgment of the dead in Revelation 20? Is it the same judgment of the dead in Revelation 11:18? What is the restitution of all things at the return of Christ in Acts 3:20-21? Will Christ's sacrifice at Calvary also reverse the curse, at His return? Does death die at the last trumpet in 1 Corinthians 15:50-55? Why did Jesus correct the woman at the well when she said earthly Jerusalem was the place to worship? See John 4:20-24. Why did Paul say the Jerusalem above is our “mother” in Galatians 4:24-31? What is the inheritance of the Old Testament Saints in Hebrews 11:15-16? Is the third temple found in 1 Peter 2:4-10? Is this temple just as real as a temple made of earthly stones? What was Peter expecting on the day of the Lord when He comes as a thief in 2 Peter 3:10-13? Do we find the judgment of both the living and the dead at the 7th trumpet, which is the last trumpet in the Bible, in Revelation 11:15-18? Why do most preachers ignore the time of the judgment of the dead, with reward for some, and destruction for others in Revelation 11:18? What does it prove about the chronology of the Book of Revelation? ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, Is there a correlation between Revelation 20 and earlier passages in the Book of Revelation? Is Revelation chapter 20 another example of “Recapitulation”? Rev 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, Rev 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. Rev 18:23 And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived. Rev 20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them. Rev_18:8 Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her. Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. Judgment Before the Great White Throne. Rev_19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone. Rev 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth. Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
I'm with Dennis Darville. The gospel is going out to all the world! Josephus' description of the period leading up to 70 is just too much for me to ignore. In any case, we can agree that the Lord is coming again one day and we shall not all sleep but will all be changed!
@1969cmp Thanks for the recommendation. I watched it and it was worth first 20 maybe 25 minutes. This Ken Johnson I have never heard of before talks about the book of Enoch as if it was Scriptures. He rambled a lot of outright nonsense in the rest of his time such as Calvinism originates from gnosticism... 😂😂😂 That itself makes me to check his claims on those Early Church Fathers he mentioned whether they even said those things. He was right saying that R. Catholicism comes from gnostic background but he fails to understand that Arminianism teaches the same justification as RCC does except works... RCC is Arminian. 😉
@@1969cmp I never said he says it's Canon. I said he treats it "as if it was Scripture." That's a difference. He builds his theology and eschatology on it. That's wrong.
Absolutely LOVE the discussion! Needs to be WAY longer. Let's see a week long seminar. Give everyone their chance to really lay out their best case. I was "classic" Dispensational for 20 years. I mean Lewis Sperry Chafer's SYSTEMATIC THEOLOGY. Ryre, Chafer classic Dallas. I've gotta say after the last two years or so I can never be that again. I've just seen too much. I can't say I agree with any one of these 3 on every little point but one thing I know is classic Dispensational theology is not correct.
The following reveals some of the many problems with Dispensational Theology. Who is really teaching “Replacement Theology” ? (Did God fulfill His promises to the Jewish people at Calvary? Matthew 26:28, John 19:30) The advocates of modern Dispensational Theology often accuse others of promoting “Replacement Theology”, or some may even say “Antisemitism”. What does the Bible say about their accusations? 1. Who is replacing Christ as the seed of Abraham through which all the families of the Earth would be blessed in Genesis 12:3, with Abraham’s modern descendants? (See Galatians 3:8) 2. Who is replacing the one people of God in John 10:16, with two peoples of God ? 3. Who is replacing the one seed (Christ) in Galatians 3:16, with the many seeds? 4. Who is replacing the children of the promise in Romans 9:8, with the children of the flesh? 5. Who is replacing the faithful “remnant” of Israelites in Romans 11:1-5, with the Baal worshipers? 6. Who is replacing the word "so" in Romans 11:26, with the word "then"? 7. Who is attempting to replace the Church made up of all races of people, with one made up only of Gentiles? Why did Peter address the crowd as “all the house of Israel” in Acts 2:36, when about 3,000 Israelites accepted Christ on the Day of Pentecost? 8. Based on Hebrews 9:15, the New Covenant cannot be separated from the Messiah’s death. Is the covenant in Daniel 9:27 connected to the Messiah’s death in Daniel 9:26. Is the covenant with the “many” in Daniel 9:27 the same covenant with the “many” in Matthew 26:28? If it is, some have replaced the New Covenant in Daniel 9:27 with a future covenant made by an antichrist not found in Daniel chapter 9. (See the 1599 Geneva Bible used by the Pilgrims.) 9. Those promoting the Two Peoples of God doctrine of Dispensational Theology often accuse others of teaching “Replacement Theology”, but are they the masters of it? Are they promoting a form of Dual Covenant Theology based on race? (See “genealogies” in Titus 3:9) Is the most important genealogy in the Bible found in Matthew 1:1? Is God's Son the ultimate fulfillment of Israel? Why has the modern Church done a pitiful job of sharing the Gospel with modern Orthodox Jews? Why would someone tell them they are God's chosen people and then fail to share the Gospel with them? Who is the seed of the woman promised in Genesis 3:15? Who is the "son" in Psalm 2? Who is the "suffering servant" of Isaiah 53? Who would fulfill the New Covenant promised in Jeremiah 31:31-34? Who would fulfill the timeline of Daniel chapter 9 before the second temple was destroyed? Why have we not heard this simple Old Testament Gospel preached on Christian television in the United States on a regular basis? 10. Watch the RUclips video “Genesis of Dispensational Theology” to see the origin of this man-made doctrine, which is less than 200 years old. It was brought to the United States about the time of the Civil War by John Nelson Darby. The doctrine was later incorporated into the notes of the Scofield Reference Bible, and then spread through much of the modern Church. Dallas Theological Seminary in Dallas Texas was created in part to promote John Darby’s Two Peoples of God doctrine of Dispensational Theology. Lewis Sperry Chafer, the first president of Dallas Theological, had the following to say about the difference between Israel and the Church:
“The dispensationalist believes that throughout the ages God is pursuing two distinct purposes: one related to the earth with earthly people and earthly objectives involved which is Judaism; while the other is related to heaven with heavenly people and heavenly objectives involved, which is Christianity.” Lewis Sperry Chafer, Dispensationalism (Dallas, Seminary Press, 1936), p. 107. Chafer states that, ‘Israel is an eternal nation, heir to an eternal land, with an eternal kingdom, on which David rules from an eternal throne,’ that is, on earth and distinct from the church who will be in heaven.” Lewis Sperry Chafer. Systematic Theology. 1975. Vol. IV. pp. 315-323. John Walvoord, another prominent voice of Dallas Theological stated… "...it is an article of normative dispensational belief that the boundaries of the land promised to Abraham and his descendants from the Nile to the Euphrates will be literally instituted and that Jesus Christ will return to a literal and theocratic Jewish kingdom centred on a rebuilt temple in Jerusalem. In such a scheme the Church on earth is relegated to the status of a parenthesis.” John F. Walvoord, The Rapture Question.1979, p. 25 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Are there two peoples of God in John 10:16? (See also 1 John 2:22-23, 2 John 1:7-11.) What is the land promise to the Old Testament Saints in Hebrews 11:15-16? Based on 2 Peter 3:10-13, is this earth “eternal”? Will it be replaced by a new earth? Based on Acts 2:36, and Romans 9:6-8, and Romans 11:1-5, and Hebrews 12:22-24, and James 1:1-3, can faithful Israel and the Church be separated into two different groups? Who is the New Covenant promised to in Jeremiah 31:31-34, and Hebrews 8:6-13? Will modern Orthodox Jews ever be saved outside of the New Covenant Church?
@@SpotterVideo Amen! I love that you pointed out Heb 11:15-16 because even as a young Dispensationalist mant years ago... I never really adopted the idea that (supposedly) OT saints had a separate resurrection than (supposed) church saints or NT saints. For many years I held to the pretrib teaching but still never gravitated towards that idea. One of my pastors told me "no" the dead "in" Christ shall rise first. And they will rise at the end of the tribulation (blah blah blah) well I had enough verses in my back pocket to hang onto (John 8) being one of them that Abraham saw my day to come he saw it and was glad. And it just didn't sit right with me. I was young at that point and didn't have enough bible under my belt being read without Dispensational eye glasses on to take it much further than that. So I held that one in my back pocket... Well some years after that I realized that the "seed" of Gen 12:3 is only Christ. He is the Israel of God. You'll be blessed if you bless and cursed if you curse. It dawned on me that the Dispensational application of Gen 12:3 to modern apostate Israel was almost this kind of Catholic mother Mary evangelical counterpart. I began to realize that the Jerusalem above is the mother of us all and that the promises to Abraham we're just as "heavenly" as the promises to the church and if we are the seed of Abraham because we're "in" Christ then the Church (believers) e.g. the general heavenly assembly is the true Israel of God... they are not Jews who say they are. How can we be blessed for blessing the synagogue of Satan??? So at this point, I didn't believe in a separate resurrection for OT saints and church saints, I didn't believe unbelieving Israel was "still" the Israel of God. At this point I still wasn't sure what to do with that information. I was coming out but not there yet. I still believed in a future millennial kingdom and that apostate Israel would eventually convert and that the wrath of God started with the opening of the 7 seals of Revelation and in my mind that was still all future and therefore I had no reason to drop the pretrib rapture idea... I used to argue with people over (the timing) in my mind since we're not appointed unto wrath, (1st Thes 5:9) we're promised to be taken out of the hour of trial (Rev 3:10) and if there's gonna be a separation of the sheep and goats at the 2nd coming then these sheep must go into the kingdom alive... in their natural state (not glorified into his likeness) and repopulate the world then the only believers who could possibly be there at the end of the the tribulation would be people who missed the first boat... it's sound logic. (I'm not gonna spend more time defending a theology I no longer agree with - but you get the idea) My thinking was how can you be premillenial and NOT pretrib??? I would spend hours debating these midtrib, prewrath, and posttrib folks!!! It never actually dawned on me till some years after I had realized the church was the true Israel of God that I studied INTENSELY the New Covenant... It was actually a very prominent Dispensationalist who ended up convincing me NOT to be a Dispensationalist!😅😂🤣 when I realized what a serious problem that Dispensational teaching has with our relationship to (THE EVERLASTING COVENANT) I knew then I really better start looking MUCH deeper into this than I ever had before... it started because I knew that there were 3 viable views on the new covenant 1. already but not yet... only Israel at the 2nd coming or Ryre's (and others) 2 new covenant view. Well that to me seemed STUPID and the only group that believed all future for ONLY Israel and Judah during the millennium were the Jewish roots movement types... and they think we're still under the Mosaic law... I knew that not to be true so what exactly was our relationship to the new covenant as a church? Then! A major breakthrough happened! As I was studying that for every place of scripture I could possibly find related in any way to it. I began to study Ezekiel 36 and of course I kept going into 37 and 38-39 well... I dawned on me that my problem wasn't trying to reconcile all this rapture (resurrection) timing stuff against pre, mid, prewrath, post and all that it was the millennium ITSELF! When I realized that Ezekiel 38-39 "is" Revalation 19-20 (the birds of the air the fire from heaven, Gog and Magog, the unwalled "Jerusalem" the hail stones ALL OF IT) then I realized that the "supposed" (replacement theology Amillenial view was right all along!) I couldn't believe what I was seeing and SO MUCH SCRIPTURE made SO MUCH MORE sense to me after that! What a blessing just an unbelievable BLESSING it has been to see these truths when I'm reading about the gathering of Israel, the New Covenant, the gentiles shall seek Him and one thing after another it's just incredible! The only problem I have now is finding a church where I can actually express my views on these things... But the Lord will provide. For now I go to a church where I agree on soteriology and sanctification and bite my tongue when it comes to eschatology but WOW I feel liberated in more ways than I could ever explain! It was like getting saved all over again!
@@rikvonmn I greatly appreciate you taking to time to share your journey out of Dispensational Theology. My journey in some ways was similar to yours. At one time my wife and I attended a conservative Bible church. We loved the people, and they loved us. Then we got a new member who had gone to Dallas Theological Seminary and decided it was his calling to teach Dispensational Theology in Sunday School. He recommended the book "Things to Come" by Dr. Dwight Pentecost. While reading that book the Holy Spirit let me know some of the things in the book could not be right. Why would God want a return to animal sacrifices during a future time, in a rebuilt temple? Then I decided to do some research on the history of Dispensational Theology. I was shocked to find out the doctrine was less than 200 years old. When I issued a report to the deacon board of my church on the history of the doctrine, I came under personal attack. The results of my research can be found in the RUclips video "Genesis of Dispensational Theology". It is a history many Dispensationalists deny and want to keep hidden. Thank you so much for the encouragement. It is very rare these days. I love you, Brother.
@@SpotterVideo thank you as well! Very encouraging. I hesitate to comment on most RUclips videos cause it seems no matter what you say or what position you take the attack is sure to come!🤣😂😅 I've learned to be much more humble over the last few years. I used to think "I was SO,,, RIGHT!" and finding out how WRONG I was it tends too take arrogance down a few notches. I now read with so much more of an open mind than before. Not that I'm being tossed to and froe. I have strong conviction. It must be scripture that convinces me to look at or change a position but MAN. You can literally study this book all day every day and not get there in this lifetime 😳 I still go back and forth a bit on "some" eschatological questions I have as to whether or not how much is still future and those sort of things. Cause I tend to lean towards that there still is a day in which Satan is unbound and the world will be tried and those sort of things. But one thing I know... when Christ returns.... IT'S OVER!!! Tge eternal state follows no doubt in my mind. I've studied very intensely many perspectives. Including "full" preterism. That one doesn't seem to work for many reasons. But all I know is what I was under cannot be accurate. I search daily for only God's truth and pray always for it... it was VERY difficult for me to come to the conclusion that Dispensational theology is just THAT VERY WRONG. Especially after 20 years of defending it. Not every aspect of it of course but on its face I was a hardened proud and very convinced Dispensationalist! I'll watch the RUclips you suggest. Ive not seen that one. I'll let ya know what I think? Too be honest though I've watched other such documentaries and stuff and I think many "against",,, though correct. Tend to overstate their case or the data. Such as Darby and Margaret McDonald for instance. That story is so vague and also Margaret taught a post trib rapture and Darby rebuked their theology on many levels and I've heard from so many people that (Darby went to the false prophets and got all this stuff)🤦♂️ that is not even close to how all this came about. When other in the past used to try to bring their case against mine and they started there I usually never even got through the rest cause IMHO they started with false pretenses and well... yeah. I'll go watch
Ken Johnson is ultimately the best resource on this subject. He has put the dead scrolls against the Bible all the church fathers were Premelinial the negative guys seem to get this wrong
This is why 2nd Timothy 2:15 says You must rightly divide the word of Truth, if you don't rightly divide you will end up being ashamed, and embarrass yourself
I'm strongly leaning that way, the scriptures (most) make perfect sense. The part i'm not convinced of is they believe most of the world will become saved, whereas I don't... i'm not 100% convinced, but could be persuaded. If someone put a gun to my head, I would have to side with the post mills for sure. They DO seem the most confident now that you pointed it out. When RC Sproul and Doug Wilson both say the same thing, I pay attention. Although I don't know if RC was post mill, he talks like one in his (several) discussions, classes, etc. the only thing I'm convinced of 100% is that there is no pre trib rapture...I'm embarrassed for people who still believe that. (Thanks "Left Behind"🤯). Oh, Christ returns...there's that, too.🤣
Dennis Darville makes the best points. But he seems to believe that the new earth and new heaven is still future, while a postmil bigshot as Doug Wilson believes that we're already in the NH and NE, which he makes out to be living in the new covenant age. So the postmil camp seems to be quite divided on this?
Why didn't I think of that? Prof. Crosby, in his 1850 book “The Second Advent,” debates: (paraphrased) “When their pastor, either from the pulpit or by letter, says to them, (using that Greek emphatically-expressed pronoun) “WE shall not all sleep,” and “WE who are alive and remain,” (twice), isn't it the natural interpretation to understand that they would have believed in a speedy return of Christ?” By golly he's right! That is exactly what they would understand Paul to have said. “And had the Corinthians or Thessalonians any reason for understanding their Apostle differently?” Why, no they didn't! There is no scripture from Paul or anyone else in the New Testament that supports the idea of a return of Christ way off in the far distance. Now, why didn't I think of that??
Good discussion. Interesting how the premill emphasizes the "natural reading" but doesn't respond to the "natural" reading of "This Generation" in Matt 24, and "Soon" /"time is near", and "those who pierced him will see him coming in the clouds" in Revelation. Also Aiken is incorrect, the early church was HISTORICAL pre-mill, not dispensational, which started in the 1830s
Jazz Player the bible doesnt say what you are saying about those piercing Him seeing Him on the clouds. The kingdom is near from God's perspective and doesnt have to that generation that was around back then
@@christiansoldier77 But those that pierced Him saw Him "coming in the clouds", either ascending to heaven (Acts 1:8-10) or Matt 24 in judgment to "this generation"
@@gwh070156 Acts 1:8-10 doesn't say this . I think you misunderstand what "generation " means. Matt 24:29-34 29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. 32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh: 33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors. 34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled. So clearly Jesus wasn't talking about the people living then. He told them what would not happen before He returned and none of that stuff has happened yet. You have to remember God doesn't view time like we do because He is not bound by time. So He is talking about either the future generation that will see these things or generation could be another term for "age" which is an indefinite period of time
Important debate as the transition from trans humanism to post humanism is already underway (most don’t even know this). If believers assume they will be raptured out of an existential threat and were wrong about that, it would be a strategic error of the first order.
I was really surprised no one jumped on the assertion that a climax cannot come in the middle of a text. It’s completely false, especially in Middle Eastern literature. Kenneth Bailey has pointed out multiple times How Chastaic structure (where you have a structure that is a mirror pattern Like ABCDCBA) is a major part of how one should look at and interpret all Middle Eastern literature and texts. You have to be a look on the lookout for that. That is not to say that’s always how it structured, but there are many hints that that is in heavy use in the book of revelation.
The discussion of "Satan bound" (@29:00 mark) has these men speculating about what it means that "Satan is bound". The Scriptures clearly tell us what this means, however. Rev. 20:3 tells us what the binding of Satan entails: "so that he might not deceive the nations any longer, until the thousand years were ended. After that he must be released for a little while." (ESV). But this is exactly what Satan is doing now: deceiving the nations through the Antichrist and the False prophet; and will continue to do so until the 2nd Advent. While God is nevertheless Sovereign over Satan's activities, and always has been, it is clear from the text that during the Millennium Satan will not be deceiving anyone...until AFTER the 1,000 years. And why will Satan not be deceiving anyone during the Millennium? Because there will be no one on the earth to deceive. At the 2nd Advent (which is depicted in Rev. 19, and from which Rev. 20 chronologically follows...yes, I said "chronologically" follows, for my Amillennial friends) Christ's angels will destroy all the wicked who are living at the time; then, the dead in Christ will be resurrected with glorified bodies, and the living saints will be changed into their glorified bodies in an instant, and we will all be caught up together to go to heaven, where Christ Himself has been preparing "mansions" (or, "dwelling places") for His people. Therefore, the 1,000 year Millennium of Christ ruling with His saints does NOT take place "on the earth," as Dispensational [Futurist] Premillennialism teaches, and as Historic Premillennialism teaches. The Millennial reign takes place in HEAVEN, while the earth is completely desolate, void of life (except for Satan and his [fallen] angels). Only after the Millennium does Christ once again descend (this time all the way down to the earth) with his saints in the New/Heavenly Jerusalem; the wicked dead will be resurrected, and Satan will be "loosed" for his 1,000 year prison to deceive all the wicked once again. Then, they will attempt to attack the Heavenly city (which descended from heaven) and God will destroy them with fiery judgement. Very simple, if one does not carry erroneous presuppositions to the prophetic texts. Hope this helps. Let me know if you have questions. *Soli Deo Gloria*
"Clear from the text" LOL, yes, the reformers ofthe 1800's were the first to magically discern this; apparently it was not so clear until JN Darby came along to open everyone's eyes
Satan doesn't decieve anymore but to the believers that is because Christ resurrected. What would be the point of a thousand year reign after his second coming just to come back to earth?
@@jasonbourne5142 You don't think Satan deceives believers? Just take a look at the state of the church... The New Testament constantly talks about the perils of Satan and his schemes. If he were bound for believers then it doesn't make any sense why the New Testament authors would warn about his plans in so many passages.
@@derserrs the millenium is now, we're a part of it, we just haven't gone to the heavenly part yet because we're still alive. The dead are already there. At the end of the millennium Satan will be used to test everyone prior to Christ second coming.
Hebrews 9:16 divides Old Testament from New Testament, this means New Testament starts with Matthew 28, everything before Matthew 28 is still Old Testament
...yep, Polycarp was a disciple of John and was premillenial and they did not believe in replacement theology which sneaks in notably with The Catholic church and Augustine.
How come everyone ignores the Mid_Trib position? Paul says clearly in 2 Thessalonians that the rapture won't happen until the Abomination of Desolation and in 1 Corinthians 15 that it will be at the "Last Trump."
The premillennial representative was a historical progressive premilleniast (which is what I hold to). What you would call a post tribber. However, in this discussion only historical premillennialism (post trib) was disscussed. A mid trib or pre wrath position is actually a subcategory of post trib or historical premill. The other view which is classical premillennialism or dispensationalist is the pretrib view l. Either way, with each of these premill views, there was only one premill representative in this debate and he barely got to talk.
@@seansteckbeck4707 Thanks for your clarification Sean. I don't think I agree with the idea of classifying historic premillennialism as post-trib though. I think post trib would be it own conclusion, since it denies any escape from the outpouring of God's wrath within Daniel's 70thw week. The church fathers like Irenaeus and Hippolytus seemed to indicate a time in which the church was hidden from that wrath, and Irenaeus uses the term to designate the church being raptured from this outpouring. The reason they do not designate a 'mid-trib' position, is because the idea that Daniel's entire 70th week is called "the tribulation' is a scripturally inaccurate designation that Pre-70th week dispensationalists like to repeat in order to foster the idea that the whole 70th week constitutes God's wrath, rather than simply the second half, as both Daniel, the Gospels, Paul, and Revelation all agree. That said, the only distinction between the Mid-Trib and Pre-Wrath position is how long after the midpoint (which is the Abomination of Desolation) before the Church is caught up to escape this wrath. The Mid-Trib (my position) says it is 'that night' (per Luke 17 coordinated with Mt 24) while the Pre-Wrath says right before a sudden outpouring of wrath at the end of the 70th week, making it closer to a post-trib position than a mid-trib. I have a book and channel dedicated to the subject, which is why I parous these channels (if you are interested), but being strictly scriptural in usage of terminology is important to mending differences of opinion. Mt. 24 refers to a general (or persecution) happening until the Abomination of Desolation and a (an outpouring of wrath while the entire earth is made to worship the antichrist or die) during the second half. These are our linear bounds, and all that remains is what we are told to 'watch' for and when to 'look up' as our instructions of obedience. When it is brought to this simplicity, the answer becomes much more clear.
Revelation 20: Does your interpretation agree with all other scripture? (Chronological or Recapitulation?) (Literal vs. Figurative?) Based on the following scripture, will immortals and mortals both live on earth for 1,000 years after the Second Coming of Christ? Will there be renewed animal sacrifices in earthly Jerusalem for 1,000 years after the Second Coming of Christ? Will Christ conduct funeral services for mortals killed in accidents many years after His Second Coming? Graveyards needed? Can the following questions be examined without ridicule, and condemnation, based on the New Covenant promised in Jeremiah 31:31-34, and found fulfilled in Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, and Hebrews 12:18-24? Can the number 1,000 be used in a symbolic manner? Psalm 50:10 Does an angel with a key come from heaven and open the bottomless pit in Revelation 9:1-2? Why did the angel have to unlock the pit if it was not locked previously? Who is the king of the angels in the bottomless pit found in Revelation 9:11? Are some of the angels “bound” in some manner in Revelation 9:14? If the beast comes up out of the pit in Revelation 11:7, where is the beast before then? John sees “souls” at the beginning of Revelation chapter 20. Are these the same “souls” found in Revelation 6:9-11? Is the “first resurrection” in Revelation 20:5 the first bodily resurrection in the Book of Revelation? (Rev. 11:11) Are there two different types of resurrections in John chapter 5? John 5:24 (Spiritual) ? Were you dead, and now you are alive? John 5:27-30 Christ describes the bodily resurrection and “hour” of judgment of “all” the dead. Who is the “strong man” who is bound in Matthew 12:26-29? How is Satan “bound” in Revelation 20:3? How many mortals are left alive on the planet at the end of Matthew 25:31-46? Isaiah 65:17-25? Are people really dying in verse 20? Context, Context, Context… The New Heavens and New Earth are found at the beginning of the passage, and the end of the curse is found at the end of the passage. What happens if verse 20 begins with a negative statement? "There will be no more..." Was Paul expecting Christ to return "in flaming fire", taking vengeance on those who do not know God in 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10? How would mortals survive this fire? Does the fire come at the end of Revelation 20? Did Paul expect both the living and the dead to be judged at the appearing of Christ, in 2 Timothy 4:1? When is the judgment of the dead in Revelation 20? Is it the same judgment of the dead in Revelation 11:18? What is the restitution of all things at the return of Christ in Acts 3:20-21? Will Christ's sacrifice at Calvary also reverse the curse, at His return? Does death die at the last trumpet in 1 Corinthians 15:50-55? Why did Jesus correct the woman at the well when she said earthly Jerusalem was the place to worship? See John 4:20-24. Why did Paul say the Jerusalem above is our “mother” in Galatians 4:24-31? What is the inheritance of the Old Testament Saints in Hebrews 11:15-16? Is the third temple found in 1 Peter 2:4-10? Is this temple just as real as a temple made of earthly stones? What was Peter expecting on the day of the Lord when He comes as a thief in 2 Peter 3:10-13? Do we find the judgment of both the living and the dead at the 7th trumpet, which is the last trumpet in the Bible, in Revelation 11:15-18? Why do most preachers ignore the time of the judgment of the dead, with reward for some, and destruction for others in Revelation 11:18? What does it prove about the chronology of the Book of Revelation? ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, Is there a correlation between Revelation 20 and earlier passages in the Book of Revelation? Is Revelation chapter 20 another example of “Recapitulation”?
The gospel is the gospel of the kingdom! Jesus is going to return and set up the kingdom of God ON THE EARTH! God’s government ON THE EARTH! The Messiah died for his people! God resurrected the Messiah! The Messiah will resurrect his people! The destiny of the Messiah and his people is to be ON THE EARTH! The renewed restored earth! God also dwelling with them! Rev 21 Matt 24 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be proclaimed throughout the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come. Jesus said the Father is the only true God! John 17 3 And this is eternal life, that they know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent.
After Israel rejects the Holy Spirit, this is when Christ stops Paul on his way to Damascus, it says you will preach the mystery of the gospel of grace, The Mystery of the church, The Mystery of the rapture
I do think there's a distinction in the Kingdom of God and the Kingdom of Heaven. The Kingdom of Heaven is the present world which was seized by earthly rulers as Christ described in the parable of the land leasers, the men in the Garden who figured they would kill the Son of the owner and take his inheritance. It is ruled by the powers and the principalities. The Kingdom of God is the domain of God, all things, which he rules. Though the Kingdom of Heaven is subject to him, he HAS allowed or even placed them in ruling the world for a time until his return. We all agree that he WILL destroy his enemies, but presently they have not been. It comes down to; Do we expect God will take back the world at once or over time? In one dramatic moment or a more nebulous (to our views) indeterminate period of time with potential setbacks along the way? The apostles clearly expected the former at the transfiguration, but understood something different at the resurrection.
I didn’t like that there wasn’t a clear defense of the unique calling of the Jewish people in Romans 11. They only let the a mills and post mills talk. The premill guy barely got to talk. I would have loved to hear his view on Romans 11 and he wasn’t allowed to speak on it.
What I am saying, brothers and sisters, is this: Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor can corruption inherit incorruption. 50 ¶ Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. 51 Listen, I am telling you a mystery: We will not all fall asleep, but we will all be changed, 51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we will be changed. 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible body must be clothed with incorruptibility, and this mortal body must be clothed with immortality. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 When this corruptible body is clothed with incorruptibility, and this mortal body is clothed with immortality, then the saying that is written will take place: Death has been swallowed up in victory.
10:15 simplistic view is the best view because the bible was not written to Dr or scollers only but to the the common man = chronological would be the most logical IF we were already in the millenium or already passed we would have been obviously no debate and everyone would know it. But problem is people take bible in their own interpretation instead of reading it literal 2 Peter 1:20 KJV 20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
Oh really? What about the 666 mark which was hidden in the name meaning Cesar Nero? Was that clear? Or did it take studying ? What about learning hebraism or apocalyptic language? It does take studying bud so take a nap.
@@jasonbourne5142 666 bible specify its only for those who know or understand = a mistery. I never said anytying about not studying I said what I said wont copy paste. Take a nap bud? lol no. what a non christian attitude to say such a thing
@@JeremiahBlasi Europe not the WORLD and that timeline was way over the 7 year tribulation so off by 2 reasons. SOmething as big as the GREAT trib woldent even be a matter of debate it would evident to all wihtout denial if u read all the things happening.
@@diegovalleperez3360 show me this proof of ur interpreation because paul was set to preach to the gentiles aka the hole world says him self . gospel wasent just for the jews after they denied Jesus SOmething as big as the GREAT trib woldent even be a matter of debate it would evident to all wihtout denial if u read all the things happening.
@royal priest Something has to be literal . You cant understand metaphor without a literal context. You think the mark of the beast isnt literal? You are lost
Refining fire? the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. Seeing then that all these things shall be DISSOLVED, ...the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth,
So far of taking these scriptures out of context and I'm not a scholar, it seems like are they are doing is misinterpreting all the scriptures especially revelation
Matthew 24:36, Christ admits that only his father knows everything, then in chapter 28, it says Christ is given full knowledge of the Kingdom, then they wait to see if the nation of Israel, the Pharisees, and Sadducees, reject the Holy Spirit Steven,
well you bap dont like covenant theology. Are you at least reformed in your theology? if you are then there is only one view point that makes sense. God doesnt need to set up shop so to speak if hes the one doing all the salivic work in a persons life. you do not need a 1000 years reign on earth to see whose going to choose GOD.
Only one Gospel: The Gospel of Reconciliation. Jesus Christ came into THEIR kingdom to reconcile fallen angels unto Himself. We are the fallen angels (ELOHIM) kept in DNA chains of darkness. If you do not confess being a fallen angel in Lucifer's kingdom, then you are an unbeliever. Unbeliever = those that claim to be made in the image of ELOHIM(gods). REPENT FALLEN ANGELS.
2 Peter 3:10-13. Has anyone ever heard or witnessed a nuclear explosion? It sends fire into the heavens and incinerates everything on earth. During the Day of the Lord (7 year Tribulation of God's Wrath), assuredly there will be nuclear war on earth because of the rider on the Red Horse. This passage does not exactly describe the event in which God will create a New Heavens and a New Earth which takes place at the end of the Millennium. This describes a destructive event. That's something for mister Amillennial man to think about.
So they all get it wrong. The pre-trib backer needs to watch "7 Pre-trib Problems and the Pre-wrath Rapture." The other two either ignore the last two thousand years of history and/or allegorize or spiritualize scripture away. Sad.
It was disingenuous from the second spoken sentence. There are not only 3 views of eschatology. The claim of there being only 3 had me skipping this video immediately. Thanks, but no thanks.
He said, “The three MAJOR views…” there are variations of course, but most people throughout church history and modern day will fall into one of three categories. I, myself, have a very minority opinion and yet would only very technically fall into pre-mil. Dr. Akin himself stressed in his first opening statement that there were many varieties of even premillennialism. So… yeah
Y’all just don’t seem to have a VERY BIG GOD. MY GOD IS OMNIPOTENT, OMNISCIENT AND OMNIPRESENT. MY GOD HAS NO LIMITATIONS…accept that he cannot SIN. Your GOD seems pretty limited to me. I WILL PRAY FOR YOU!
There are at least 3 different Premillennial views, though. While I too am Premillennial, I am not a Dispensational Futurist Premillennial, nor an Historic Premillennial. The Heavenly Premillennial view fits with all of Scripture better than the former two.
@Indigator Veritatis wrote: "I think the problem with your view is that during the Millennium, there still is the influence of the world and the flesh, to some extent." Nope, when Christ returns all the wicked living will be killed (cf. Mt. 13:24-30, 36-43; Rev. 14:14-16; Rev. 19:17-21). Then the dead "in Christ" will be resurrected to glorified bodies (1 Thes. 4:13-18), the living saints will be changed into glorified bodies (1 Cor. 15:51-55), and all the saints will be "caught up" to heaven (1 Thes. 4:13-18) to where Christ has been preparing a place for them (Jn. 14:1-3). The Rapture is certainly a biblical teaching; however, it is not a temporally separate event than the 2nd Advent...they are the SAME EVENT. The Millennium will consist of the saints with Christ in heaven, where the "books" will be opened and examined (cf. Dan. 7:10; Rev. 20:12). The 1,000 year Millennium of Christ's reign with His saints will NOT be on the earth, but in heaven. Satan will be "bound" by a chain of circumstances wherein he will not be able to "deceive the nations" (because they are all DEAD). Only AFTER the 1,000 years will the wicked be resurrected unto judgement. Rev. 20:3 "...that he might not deceive the nations any longer, until the thousand years were ended. After that he must be released for a little while." Rev. 20:6 "... Blessed and holy is the one who shares in the first resurrection! Over such the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and they will reign with him for a thousand years." Rev. 20:7 "...when the thousand years are ended, Satan will be released from his prison 8 and will come out to deceive the nations that are at the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them for battle; their number is like the sand of the sea..." Rev. 20:12-14 "...the dead were judged by what was written in the books, according to what they had done. 13 And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them, and they were judged, each one of them, according to what they had done. ..." Again, a simple reading and study of the events that occur at the 2nd Advent of Christ will lead to the conclusion that the Millennial reign does NOT take place on the earth, but in heaven. Satan will be "bound" on a desolate earth for 1,000 years, with no one to deceive...and he will be miserable. Hope this helps. Let me know if you have further questions. *Soli Deo Gloria*
If we are in The Millennial now, where is Jesus and when did He return. If the Millennium has already happened, then we already should have seen Christ reign - with a rod of iron - then the great rebellion at the end of the 1,000. Both are sad errors.
“Round Table” is also a misnomer. That’s CLEARLY a square table.
Shhh, don't tell the others! 🤐
no no no, the table is woke, it's geometrically fluid. gosh, get with the times!
@@democratpro hahah well stated 😳😂
@@askbrettmanning well, i'm a professional democrat. This is my urea of expertise
A Millennium Puzzle to solve… Will Christ be conducting funeral services for mortals killed in accidents 500 years after His Second Coming?
The “first resurrection” in Rev. chapter 20 is not the first bodily resurrection in the Book of Revelation, because the two witnesses are resurrected from the dead in chapter 11. There are two different types of resurrection in John chapter 5. There is a spiritual resurrection from the dead in John 5:24, and a bodily resurrection from the dead in John 5:28-29.
My view of the Millennium agrees with what Paul said in 2 Thess. 1:7-10, when Paul said Christ returns in "flaming fire" taking vengeance on those who do not obey the Gospel. The fire comes at the end of Rev. chapter 20.
My view agrees with what Peter said in 2 Peter 3:10-13, when Peter said this earth is going to burn and "dissolve" when He comes as a thief on the day of the Lord. The fire comes at the end of Rev. chapter 20.
My view agrees with what Paul said in 2 Tim. 4:1, when Paul said both the living and the dead will be judged at His appearing. The time of the judgment of the dead, with reward for some and destruction for others is found in Rev. 11:18, right after the 7th trumpet, which is the last trumpet in the Bible. (This verse also proves the Book of Rev. is not in chronological order.) The judgment of the dead is also found at the end of Rev. chapter 20.
My view agrees with what Jesus said in Matt. 25:31-46, where He described the judgment of the sheep and goats, which leaves no mortals alive on the planet at the end of the passage. There are also no mortals left alive on the planet at the end of Rev. chapter 19.
My view agrees with Peter in 2 Pet. 2:4, and Jude in Jude 1:6, when they both said wicked angels are already in chains of darkness.
My view agrees with what John recorded in Rev. 9:1-2, when an angel comes down from heaven with a key to unlock the pit, which means the pit was locked before that time. Are there wicked angels already in the pit in Rev. 9:11? John recorded angels already "bound" in Rev. 9:14. The beast "ascends" out of the pit in Rev. chapter 11, which means the beast was in the pit before that time.
Take all of the above and compare it to the symbolic language found in Rev. chapter 20, and the fact the Book of Revelation is not in chronological order, and you will have the truth.
This is the best discussion I’ve heard between people with differing eschatological views. Everyone was so respectful of each other’s views, and treated each other so well. Great job.
Have you watched A Evening of Eschatology?
I love the sermon. I don’t know enough to argue with anyone in here. God bless you all.
I was fully rapture theory, our bible study used McArthur s study guide on Revelations, after the study I came out with more questions than answers, I found the partial preterist position very helpful with the destruction of Jerusalem being central to Mathew 24. I am in the Postmil camp, but reading the whole bible to better understandm
I also used Mac Study Bible, it’s a good tool but he is disp. I turned amil after reading the promises of the Old Testament with the New in Christ. Still considering Postmillenialism, but not completely convinced.
@@GloomZzyy Kenneth Gentry teachings and books. James White. "On Earth as it is in heaven" movie
Same here. Used to disp. premil but now am a postmil. If you want to know more about postmil, here's a documentary.
ruclips.net/video/jchu--KWvDw/видео.html
Partial preterist is a futurist.
There is ONE Verse that has the numerical number 2nd coming.
And it’s tied with SALVATION..
Hebrews 9: 28 so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation.
So.. if your waiting for the 2nd coming.. then you and Israel.. those who accepted Jesus in the Bible days..
don’t have salvation..
I urge you all to rethink what Jesus 2nd coming is.. and what’s tied into it.
Rapture’s Obsolete
I love this discussion especially the last few minutes. Though they all have different perspectives on how we reach the end of the age they all arrive at the same conclusion. A glorious eternity awaits the people of God!
I feel that the ancient Hebrew (Galilean) wedding, and also the fall feasts of the Lord, are so important when it comes to getting a clear picture of the discussion of “end-times”, the bride of Christ, the catching up of the bride, and everything else that follows thereafter. Not knowing the day or the hour is wedding talk, only the Father knows, this is wedding talk. Now Christ fulfilled the spring feasts in succession. He will also fulfill the fall feasts in like manner. The study of the fall feasts gives us a clear understanding of the end times and the second coming of our Lord. The fall feasts are all through the book of Revelation.
God bless you all for this discussion!
I think i hear something familiar in your argument, I don't mean argument pre se', but the feasts are there i believe too. I just watched a similar round table with 4 fellows, it was hard to watch and I received a lot more from these gentlemen. Thanks
We need more of this!! Grateful for the discussion. Also looks like the post mill rep would be a scramble partner on the golf course!
I agree that this is a very helpful presentation, done in the right spirit all the way around. I was pleasantly surprised at the concessions Dr. Akin made to the other views, but it leads me to say this. Dispensationalism is not losing steam in a world where David Jeremiah, John Hagee, and Tim Lahaye still reign over the hearts of the vast majority of evangelicals.
I'm not a dispensationalist but Buist Fanning and Robert L. Thomas represent the system best today. The problem with Progressive Dispensationalism is that its hermeneutic allows for interpretations that undermine the very system. Im not a premillennialist but I prefer Progressive Dispensationalism vs Traditional Dispensationalism. That tells you a lot about Progressive Dispensationalism. It tends very much toward the inaugurated eschatology of George Ladd, which is why Progressive Dispensationalists get so much flack about their name from Traditional Dispensationalists. But yes, in American Evangelicalism, Dispensationalism still has a strong voice, but more and more are departing from it. Just my experience of churches. Sorry for the rant! Love this subject.
It is like the "An Evening of Eschatology" by Piper, Storms, Wilson, and Hamilton. Praised God!
Not really, i just watched that, this was far more easy for me to follow. Thanks
Thank you all for the discussion. This was great and bears good fruit for thought!
I have a very different view after 36 years of study...but I absolutely love this conversation. We are all going to be bros in heaven.
What's your view?
@@Logalactic ruclips.net/p/PLk8Km0D988EnOPXBcC72ehaxt_fvDyde6 This is the series I teach which indicates the PEOPLE of the Tribulation and gives hope inside of it. All of my view is Biblically based. Check it out.
@@DrScottYoung Thank you! God bless you brother.
@@DrScottYoung 36 years studying and you still think it's pre-trib? I didn't click the link but can deduce that's your position because of the word "tribulation" and your name.
The scholars I respect most believe the "tribulation" spoken about was around 66 AD, and lasted 42 months, culminating in 70 AD with the destruction of Jerusalem.
@@democratpro Starting off by insulting me isn't best way to communicate with a brother in Christ "36 years studying..." Firstly, those who believe in your view (including "Scholars") have to answer the following:
1. Who are the 144K in Rev 7:1-8?
2. When did Jesus SHOW UP IN THE CLOUDS Rev 14:14,16?
3. Rev 8-9 indicates the fourth trumpet in which plumes blow up in the planet from a comet, then ugly creatures come forth fifth trumpet to harm the people who are NOT sealed of God and CANNOT die for five months, then backed up to Rev 9:15 beauty in which "the four angels were held back for the hour, day, month and year"?
I could go on with 600 verses indicating a Tribulation and 300 verses indicating a Millennial Reign. Those who wish to marginalize Scripture (those Scholars you mention) by saying that they were all analogies or metaphors, never know when to stop. If I marginalize one piece of the Word, I would point you to Rev 22...those who add to the Word, I will add to you the plagues that are within it, those who take away from the Words of this book, I will take away your position in the Book of Life.
So instead of trying to marginalize others who talk, enter a dialogue which is much more friendly with your brother in Christ in whom you will spend an eternity with...
At the 23 minute mark to the end is spot on.
Upon his return he will explain/reveal this to everyone. It’s really pretty simple and will make absolute sense. All in due time.
He is here.
I love the fellowship while discussing escatology
It was great to have all of them interacting in the way they did! Pablo thank you for watching and make sure to subscribe for more great content like this!
@@SEBTS Since the New Covenant is “everlasting” in Hebrews 13:20, how is the New Covenant Church age going to end before the Second Coming of Christ? Why would anyone think God is going back to the Old Covenant system now made “obsolete” by the New Covenant in Hebrews 8:13? We are not come to Mount Sinai in Hebrews 12:18. We are come instead to the New Covenant church of Mount Zion and the blood in Hebrews 12:22-24.
Once a person comes to understand the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, which is found fulfilled by Christ during the first century in Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, and specifically applied to the Church in 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, and Hebrews 12:22-24, modern Dispensational Theology falls apart, and the pretrib removal of the Church falls with it.
The Capitol "C" Church, as we use the word today, is not found in the entire Book of Revelation. Individual church bodies in ancient Asia Minor are found. In Revelation 12:11 we find those under the blood of the Lamb. A person cannot be under the blood of the Lamb and not be a part of the New Covenant Church of Jesus Christ. Verse 12 of this passage proves at least part of the tribulation period is the wrath of Satan upon the people of God.
Rev 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
Rev 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
"It may come as a surprise to most pre-Trib prophecy students that the post-Trib position (in its primitive form) is the oldest point of view."
The quotation above is from the book "Will You Escape The Tribulation? RAPTURE [Under Attack]", by Tim LaHaye, copyright 1998, Page 197.
The gathering of the Church is described at the end of 1 Thess. Chapter 4, and the timing of the event is found in chapter 5. The word “But” in the first verse of chapter 5 connects the two chapters, and the words “we” and “sleep” in verse 10 of chapter 5 prove the two chapters are connected.
Thank you for this edifying discussion. I learned alot, even though I do lean more post-mill. Great points all around. God bless you!
Minority post mill here! And I loved this discussion.
It is definitely a good move to make the Postmillenialist the Vice President of Institution Advancement.
I really appreciate this discussion. This makes me even more excited to begin studying at Southeastern.
Print out some copies of the following and give it out to your fellow students and professors, if you want to stimulate a good discussion.
Multiple Second Coming Visions in Revelation: (book not in chronological order )
Christ returns at the end of Revelation chapter 6, with signs in the sun, moon, and stars, as are found in the Olivet Discourse.
Those at the end of the chapter are hiding from the wrath of the Lamb.
Why would they be hiding if Christ is not present?
The "kings", "captains", "might men", "free", and "bond" are also found in chapter 19 at the return of Christ.
He returns at the 7th trumpet, which is the last trumpet in the Bible, and the time of the judgment of the dead in Revelation 11:15-18.
The beginning of chapter 12 is a history lesson containing the fall of Satan, and the birth and death of Christ, who is the seed promised to crush the head of Satan in Genesis 3:15.
The Second Coming is found in the "harvest" of chapter 14, which is related to the parable of the wheat and tares in Matthew chapter 13.
He comes as a thief at Armageddon, and we find the greatest earthquake in history in chapter 16. This occurs when the 7th angel pours out his vial. How powerful is an earthquake which moves islands and destroys the mountains? What is happening to the planet?
He comes on a horse in chapter 19.
Chapter 20?
Does He come with the fire, and the judgment of the dead at the end of chapter 20, which agrees with what Paul said in 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10, and 2 Timothy 4:1?
(The time of the judgment of the dead is also found in Revelation 11:18.)
There are no mortals left alive on the planet at the end of Matthew 25:31-46.
Why does an angel come down from heaven with a key to unlock the bottomless pit in Revelation 9:1-2, if the pit was not already locked?
Revelation 9:14 proves some of the angels were previously bound in some manner.
Because the two witnesses were bodily resurrected from the dead in Revelation 11, the "first resurrection" at the beginning of Revelation 20 is not the first bodily resurrection in the book.
The principle of "Recapitulation" means there are multiple visions of His return.
====================================================================
Revelation 20: Does your interpretation agree with all other scripture?
(Chronological or Recapitulation?) (Literal vs. Figurative?)
Based on the following scripture, will immortals and mortals both live on earth for 1,000 years after the Second Coming of Christ? Will there be renewed animal sacrifices in earthly Jerusalem for 1,000 years after the Second Coming of Christ? Will Christ conduct funeral services for mortals killed in accidents many years after His Second Coming? Graveyards needed?
Can the following questions be examined without ridicule, and condemnation, based on the New Covenant promised in Jeremiah 31:31-34, and found fulfilled in Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, and Hebrews 12:18-24?
Can the number 1,000 be used in a symbolic manner? Psalm 50:10
Does an angel with a key come from heaven and open the bottomless pit in Revelation 9:1-2? Why did the angel have to unlock the pit if it was not locked previously?
Who is the king of the angels in the bottomless pit found in Revelation 9:11?
Are some of the angels “bound” in some manner in Revelation 9:14?
If the beast comes up out of the pit in Revelation 11:7, where is the beast before then?
John sees “souls” at the beginning of Revelation chapter 20.
Are these the same “souls” found in Revelation 6:9-11?
Is the “first resurrection” in Revelation 20:5 the first bodily resurrection in the Book of Revelation? (Rev. 11:11) Are there two different types of resurrections in John chapter 5?
John 5:24 (Spiritual) ? Were you dead, and now you are alive?
John 5:27-30 Christ describes the bodily resurrection and “hour” of judgment of “all” the dead.
Who is the “strong man” who is bound in Matthew 12:26-29?
How is Satan “bound” in Revelation 20:3?
How many mortals are left alive on the planet at the end of Matthew 25:31-46?
Isaiah 65:17-25? Are people really dying in verse 20? Context, Context, Context…
The New Heavens and New Earth are found at the beginning of the passage, and the end of the curse is found at the end of the passage.
What happens if verse 20 begins with a negative statement? "There will be no more..."
Was Paul expecting Christ to return "in flaming fire", taking vengeance on those who do not know God in 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10? How would mortals survive this fire?
Does the fire come at the end of Revelation 20?
Did Paul expect both the living and the dead to be judged at the appearing of Christ, in 2 Timothy 4:1?
When is the judgment of the dead in Revelation 20? Is it the same judgment of the dead in Revelation 11:18?
What is the restitution of all things at the return of Christ in Acts 3:20-21?
Will Christ's sacrifice at Calvary also reverse the curse, at His return?
Does death die at the last trumpet in 1 Corinthians 15:50-55?
Why did Jesus correct the woman at the well when she said earthly Jerusalem was the place to worship? See John 4:20-24.
Why did Paul say the Jerusalem above is our “mother” in Galatians 4:24-31?
What is the inheritance of the Old Testament Saints in Hebrews 11:15-16?
Is the third temple found in 1 Peter 2:4-10? Is this temple just as real as a temple made of earthly stones?
What was Peter expecting on the day of the Lord when He comes as a thief in 2 Peter 3:10-13?
Do we find the judgment of both the living and the dead at the 7th trumpet, which is the last trumpet in the Bible, in Revelation 11:15-18? Why do most preachers ignore the time of the judgment of the dead, with reward for some, and destruction for others in Revelation 11:18? What does it prove about the chronology of the Book of Revelation?
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Is there a correlation between Revelation 20 and earlier passages in the Book of Revelation?
Is Revelation chapter 20 another example of “Recapitulation”?
Rev 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
Rev 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
Rev 18:23 And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived.
Rev 20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
Rev_18:8 Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her.
Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
Judgment Before the Great White Throne.
Rev_19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
Rev 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
I'm with Dennis Darville. The gospel is going out to all the world! Josephus' description of the period leading up to 70 is just too much for me to ignore. In any case, we can agree that the Lord is coming again one day and we shall not all sleep but will all be changed!
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It's all already over. Everything is fulfilled.
@@FAITHandLOGIC Amen
Ken Johnson does a presentation of what the Early Church fathers believed in regards to eschatology. Worth looking it up.
@1969cmp
Thanks for the recommendation. I watched it and it was worth first 20 maybe 25 minutes. This Ken Johnson I have never heard of before talks about the book of Enoch as if it was Scriptures. He rambled a lot of outright nonsense in the rest of his time such as Calvinism originates from gnosticism... 😂😂😂
That itself makes me to check his claims on those Early Church Fathers he mentioned whether they even said those things. He was right saying that R. Catholicism comes from gnostic background but he fails to understand that Arminianism teaches the same justification as RCC does except works... RCC is Arminian. 😉
@@luboshcamber1992 Ken makes it clear that Enoch is not cannon.
@@1969cmp
I never said he says it's Canon. I said he treats it "as if it was Scripture." That's a difference. He builds his theology and eschatology on it. That's wrong.
Absolutely LOVE the discussion! Needs to be WAY longer. Let's see a week long seminar. Give everyone their chance to really lay out their best case. I was "classic" Dispensational for 20 years. I mean Lewis Sperry Chafer's SYSTEMATIC THEOLOGY. Ryre, Chafer classic Dallas. I've gotta say after the last two years or so I can never be that again. I've just seen too much. I can't say I agree with any one of these 3 on every little point but one thing I know is classic Dispensational theology is not correct.
The following reveals some of the many problems with Dispensational Theology.
Who is really teaching “Replacement Theology” ?
(Did God fulfill His promises to the Jewish people at Calvary? Matthew 26:28, John 19:30)
The advocates of modern Dispensational Theology often accuse others of promoting “Replacement Theology”, or some may even say “Antisemitism”. What does the Bible say about their accusations?
1. Who is replacing Christ as the seed of Abraham through which all the families of the Earth would be blessed in Genesis 12:3, with Abraham’s modern descendants? (See Galatians 3:8)
2. Who is replacing the one people of God in John 10:16, with two peoples of God ?
3. Who is replacing the one seed (Christ) in Galatians 3:16, with the many seeds?
4. Who is replacing the children of the promise in Romans 9:8, with the children of the flesh?
5. Who is replacing the faithful “remnant” of Israelites in Romans 11:1-5, with the Baal worshipers?
6. Who is replacing the word "so" in Romans 11:26, with the word "then"?
7. Who is attempting to replace the Church made up of all races of people, with one made up only of Gentiles? Why did Peter address the crowd as “all the house of Israel” in Acts 2:36, when about 3,000 Israelites accepted Christ on the Day of Pentecost?
8. Based on Hebrews 9:15, the New Covenant cannot be separated from the Messiah’s death. Is the covenant in Daniel 9:27 connected to the Messiah’s death in Daniel 9:26. Is the covenant with the “many” in Daniel 9:27 the same covenant with the “many” in Matthew 26:28? If it is, some have replaced the New Covenant in Daniel 9:27 with a future covenant made by an antichrist not found in Daniel chapter 9. (See the 1599 Geneva Bible used by the Pilgrims.)
9. Those promoting the Two Peoples of God doctrine of Dispensational Theology often accuse others of teaching “Replacement Theology”, but are they the masters of it? Are they promoting a form of Dual Covenant Theology based on race? (See “genealogies” in Titus 3:9) Is the most important genealogy in the Bible found in Matthew 1:1? Is God's Son the ultimate fulfillment of Israel? Why has the modern Church done a pitiful job of sharing the Gospel with modern Orthodox Jews? Why would someone tell them they are God's chosen people and then fail to share the Gospel with them? Who is the seed of the woman promised in Genesis 3:15? Who is the "son" in Psalm 2? Who is the "suffering servant" of Isaiah 53? Who would fulfill the New Covenant promised in Jeremiah 31:31-34? Who would fulfill the timeline of Daniel chapter 9 before the second temple was destroyed? Why have we not heard this simple Old Testament Gospel preached on Christian television in the United States on a regular basis?
10. Watch the RUclips video “Genesis of Dispensational Theology” to see the origin of this man-made doctrine, which is less than 200 years old. It was brought to the United States about the time of the Civil War by John Nelson Darby. The doctrine was later incorporated into the notes of the Scofield Reference Bible, and then spread through much of the modern Church.
Dallas Theological Seminary in Dallas Texas was created in part to promote John Darby’s Two Peoples of God doctrine of Dispensational Theology.
Lewis Sperry Chafer, the first president of Dallas Theological, had the following to say about the difference between Israel and the Church:
“The dispensationalist believes that throughout the ages God is pursuing two distinct purposes: one related to the earth with earthly people and earthly objectives involved which is Judaism; while the other is related to heaven with heavenly people and heavenly objectives involved, which is Christianity.”
Lewis Sperry Chafer, Dispensationalism (Dallas, Seminary Press, 1936), p. 107.
Chafer states that, ‘Israel is an eternal nation, heir to an eternal land, with an eternal kingdom, on which David rules from an eternal throne,’ that is, on earth and distinct from the church who will be in heaven.”
Lewis Sperry Chafer. Systematic Theology. 1975. Vol. IV. pp. 315-323.
John Walvoord, another prominent voice of Dallas Theological stated…
"...it is an article of normative dispensational belief that the boundaries of the land promised to Abraham and his descendants from the Nile to the Euphrates will be literally instituted and that Jesus Christ will return to a literal and theocratic Jewish kingdom centred on a rebuilt temple in Jerusalem. In such a scheme the Church on earth is relegated to the status of a parenthesis.”
John F. Walvoord, The Rapture Question.1979, p. 25
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Are there two peoples of God in John 10:16? (See also 1 John 2:22-23, 2 John 1:7-11.)
What is the land promise to the Old Testament Saints in Hebrews 11:15-16?
Based on 2 Peter 3:10-13, is this earth “eternal”? Will it be replaced by a new earth?
Based on Acts 2:36, and Romans 9:6-8, and Romans 11:1-5, and Hebrews 12:22-24, and James 1:1-3, can faithful Israel and the Church be separated into two different groups?
Who is the New Covenant promised to in Jeremiah 31:31-34, and Hebrews 8:6-13?
Will modern Orthodox Jews ever be saved outside of the New Covenant Church?
@@SpotterVideo Amen! I love that you pointed out Heb 11:15-16 because even as a young Dispensationalist mant years ago... I never really adopted the idea that (supposedly) OT saints had a separate resurrection than (supposed) church saints or NT saints. For many years I held to the pretrib teaching but still never gravitated towards that idea.
One of my pastors told me "no" the dead "in" Christ shall rise first. And they will rise at the end of the tribulation (blah blah blah) well I had enough verses in my back pocket to hang onto (John 8) being one of them that Abraham saw my day to come he saw it and was glad. And it just didn't sit right with me. I was young at that point and didn't have enough bible under my belt being read without Dispensational eye glasses on to take it much further than that. So I held that one in my back pocket...
Well some years after that I realized that the "seed" of Gen 12:3 is only Christ. He is the Israel of God. You'll be blessed if you bless and cursed if you curse. It dawned on me that the Dispensational application of Gen 12:3 to modern apostate Israel was almost this kind of Catholic mother Mary evangelical counterpart. I began to realize that the Jerusalem above is the mother of us all and that the promises to Abraham we're just as "heavenly" as the promises to the church and if we are the seed of Abraham because we're "in" Christ then the Church (believers) e.g. the general heavenly assembly is the true Israel of God... they are not Jews who say they are. How can we be blessed for blessing the synagogue of Satan???
So at this point, I didn't believe in a separate resurrection for OT saints and church saints, I didn't believe unbelieving Israel was "still" the Israel of God.
At this point I still wasn't sure what to do with that information. I was coming out but not there yet. I still believed in a future millennial kingdom and that apostate Israel would eventually convert and that the wrath of God started with the opening of the 7 seals of Revelation and in my mind that was still all future and therefore I had no reason to drop the pretrib rapture idea...
I used to argue with people over (the timing) in my mind since we're not appointed unto wrath, (1st Thes 5:9) we're promised to be taken out of the hour of trial (Rev 3:10) and if there's gonna be a separation of the sheep and goats at the 2nd coming then these sheep must go into the kingdom alive... in their natural state (not glorified into his likeness) and repopulate the world then the only believers who could possibly be there at the end of the the tribulation would be people who missed the first boat... it's sound logic. (I'm not gonna spend more time defending a theology I no longer agree with - but you get the idea)
My thinking was how can you be premillenial and NOT pretrib??? I would spend hours debating these midtrib, prewrath, and posttrib folks!!!
It never actually dawned on me till some years after I had realized the church was the true Israel of God that I studied INTENSELY the New Covenant...
It was actually a very prominent Dispensationalist who ended up convincing me NOT to be a Dispensationalist!😅😂🤣 when I realized what a serious problem that Dispensational teaching has with our relationship to (THE EVERLASTING COVENANT) I knew then I really better start looking MUCH deeper into this than I ever had before... it started because I knew that there were 3 viable views on the new covenant 1. already but not yet... only Israel at the 2nd coming or Ryre's (and others) 2 new covenant view.
Well that to me seemed STUPID and the only group that believed all future for ONLY Israel and Judah during the millennium were the Jewish roots movement types... and they think we're still under the Mosaic law... I knew that not to be true so what exactly was our relationship to the new covenant as a church?
Then! A major breakthrough happened! As I was studying that for every place of scripture I could possibly find related in any way to it. I began to study Ezekiel 36 and of course I kept going into 37 and 38-39 well... I dawned on me that my problem wasn't trying to reconcile all this rapture (resurrection) timing stuff against pre, mid, prewrath, post and all that it was the millennium ITSELF! When I realized that Ezekiel 38-39 "is" Revalation 19-20 (the birds of the air the fire from heaven, Gog and Magog, the unwalled "Jerusalem" the hail stones ALL OF IT) then I realized that the "supposed" (replacement theology Amillenial view was right all along!) I couldn't believe what I was seeing and SO MUCH SCRIPTURE made SO MUCH MORE sense to me after that! What a blessing just an unbelievable BLESSING it has been to see these truths when I'm reading about the gathering of Israel, the New Covenant, the gentiles shall seek Him and one thing after another it's just incredible! The only problem I have now is finding a church where I can actually express my views on these things...
But the Lord will provide. For now I go to a church where I agree on soteriology and sanctification and bite my tongue when it comes to eschatology but WOW I feel liberated in more ways than I could ever explain! It was like getting saved all over again!
@@rikvonmn I greatly appreciate you taking to time to share your journey out of Dispensational Theology. My journey in some ways was similar to yours.
At one time my wife and I attended a conservative Bible church. We loved the people, and they loved us. Then we got a new member who had gone to Dallas Theological Seminary and decided it was his calling to teach Dispensational Theology in Sunday School. He recommended the book "Things to Come" by Dr. Dwight Pentecost. While reading that book the Holy Spirit let me know some of the things in the book could not be right. Why would God want a return to animal sacrifices during a future time, in a rebuilt temple? Then I decided to do some research on the history of Dispensational Theology. I was shocked to find out the doctrine was less than 200 years old. When I issued a report to the deacon board of my church on the history of the doctrine, I came under personal attack.
The results of my research can be found in the RUclips video "Genesis of Dispensational Theology". It is a history many Dispensationalists deny and want to keep hidden.
Thank you so much for the encouragement. It is very rare these days.
I love you, Brother.
@@SpotterVideo thank you as well! Very encouraging. I hesitate to comment on most RUclips videos cause it seems no matter what you say or what position you take the attack is sure to come!🤣😂😅 I've learned to be much more humble over the last few years. I used to think "I was SO,,, RIGHT!" and finding out how WRONG I was it tends too take arrogance down a few notches.
I now read with so much more of an open mind than before. Not that I'm being tossed to and froe. I have strong conviction. It must be scripture that convinces me to look at or change a position but MAN. You can literally study this book all day every day and not get there in this lifetime 😳
I still go back and forth a bit on "some" eschatological questions I have as to whether or not how much is still future and those sort of things. Cause I tend to lean towards that there still is a day in which Satan is unbound and the world will be tried and those sort of things.
But one thing I know... when Christ returns.... IT'S OVER!!! Tge eternal state follows no doubt in my mind. I've studied very intensely many perspectives. Including "full" preterism. That one doesn't seem to work for many reasons. But all I know is what I was under cannot be accurate. I search daily for only God's truth and pray always for it... it was VERY difficult for me to come to the conclusion that Dispensational theology is just THAT VERY WRONG. Especially after 20 years of defending it. Not every aspect of it of course but on its face I was a hardened proud and very convinced Dispensationalist!
I'll watch the RUclips you suggest. Ive not seen that one. I'll let ya know what I think? Too be honest though I've watched other such documentaries and stuff and I think many "against",,, though correct. Tend to overstate their case or the data.
Such as Darby and Margaret McDonald for instance. That story is so vague and also Margaret taught a post trib rapture and Darby rebuked their theology on many levels and I've heard from so many people that (Darby went to the false prophets and got all this stuff)🤦♂️ that is not even close to how all this came about. When other in the past used to try to bring their case against mine and they started there I usually never even got through the rest cause IMHO they started with false pretenses and well... yeah.
I'll go watch
@@SpotterVideo great information sir! Just got done with the video. Very fair and well sourced.
Can we get some more of these ?!?? Maybe a series 😜
Yes!! I'm so hooked on this topic!
Ken Johnson is ultimately the best resource on this subject. He has put the dead scrolls against the Bible all the church fathers were Premelinial the negative guys seem to get this wrong
What a 🔥discussion. So dope . I'm with Ben Amill baaaby .
We're glad that you found the discussion helpful Baron! Thanks for watching and make sure to subscribe!
Agreed.
Postmill won't be the minority position for long...once folks start reading their Bibles. #postmil
@Jonty Grigson Nope. I'm out of the cage and on the loose.
Without revelation, Postmil seems correct. With revelation, Amil seems most natural. And the non-doc postmil guy was the most persuasive. Great job!
MY GOD, MY GOD…HOW CAN OUR PASTORS AND TEACHERS BE SO DECEIVED?
COME QUICKLY LORD JESUS. Amen.
Holy smokes! The eye glasses at 41:42! I didn't know that was a thing!
And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise. Galatians 3:29
It’s interesting to see that their different characters seem ego reflect their stance
No millenniam reign, only an event that takes place one thousand years into Christ eternal reign
This was so great ! 🙂👍
This is why 2nd Timothy 2:15 says You must rightly divide the word of Truth, if you don't rightly divide you will end up being ashamed, and embarrass yourself
In all the debates I've seen the postmils are aways the more confident and consistent (although they never explain 1Ts 4)...
I'm strongly leaning that way, the scriptures (most) make perfect sense. The part i'm not convinced of is they believe most of the world will become saved, whereas I don't... i'm not 100% convinced, but could be persuaded.
If someone put a gun to my head, I would have to side with the post mills for sure. They DO seem the most confident now that you pointed it out.
When RC Sproul and Doug Wilson both say the same thing, I pay attention. Although I don't know if RC was post mill, he talks like one in his (several) discussions, classes, etc. the only thing I'm convinced of 100% is that there is no pre trib rapture...I'm embarrassed for people who still believe that. (Thanks "Left Behind"🤯).
Oh, Christ returns...there's that, too.🤣
@@democratpro
How would one describe N. T. Wright's eschatology? It does seem very postmill, though he doesn't ever use that designation.
Dennis Darville makes the best points. But he seems to believe that the new earth and new heaven is still future, while a postmil bigshot as Doug Wilson believes that we're already in the NH and NE, which he makes out to be living in the new covenant age. So the postmil camp seems to be quite divided on this?
Are you saying that Wilson is full preterist?
@@chaddonal4331 He claims he's partial preterist, but his viewpoints are sometimes more closer to full preterism.
Why didn't I think of that?
Prof. Crosby, in his 1850 book “The Second Advent,” debates: (paraphrased) “When their pastor, either from the pulpit or by letter, says to them, (using that Greek emphatically-expressed pronoun) “WE shall not all sleep,” and “WE who are alive and remain,” (twice), isn't it the natural interpretation to understand that they would have believed in a speedy return of Christ?” By golly he's right! That is exactly what they would understand Paul to have said. “And had the Corinthians or Thessalonians any reason for understanding their Apostle differently?” Why, no they didn't! There is no scripture from Paul or anyone else in the New Testament that supports the idea of a return of Christ way off in the far distance. Now, why didn't I think of that??
Good discussion but too short
#datpostmill
Good discussion. Interesting how the premill emphasizes the "natural reading" but doesn't respond to the "natural" reading of "This Generation" in Matt 24, and "Soon" /"time is near", and "those who pierced him will see him coming in the clouds" in Revelation. Also Aiken is incorrect, the early church was HISTORICAL pre-mill, not dispensational, which started in the 1830s
Jazz Player. He did say historical preMill. He made no claim of Disp PreMill
Jazz Player the bible doesnt say what you are saying about those piercing Him seeing Him on the clouds. The kingdom is near from God's perspective and doesnt have to that generation that was around back then
@@christiansoldier77 But those that pierced Him saw Him "coming in the clouds", either ascending to heaven (Acts 1:8-10) or Matt 24 in judgment to "this generation"
@@gwh070156 Acts 1:8-10 doesn't say this . I think you misunderstand what "generation " means. Matt 24:29-34
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
So clearly Jesus wasn't talking about the people living then. He told them what would not happen before He returned and none of that stuff has happened yet. You have to remember God doesn't view time like we do because He is not bound by time. So He is talking about either the future generation that will see these things or generation could be another term for "age" which is an indefinite period of time
@@christiansoldier77 Yes! I keep seeing people argue that Jesus said this generation... Clearly they are not reading the verses before that ONE verse!
Great video just wish someone else could represent historical premillennialism
True even though I disagree with it.
Where is Elden Ladd when needed?
Important debate as the transition from trans humanism to post humanism is already underway (most don’t even know this). If believers assume they will be raptured out of an existential threat and were wrong about that, it would be a strategic error of the first order.
My vote is for the post
I was really surprised no one jumped on the assertion that a climax cannot come in the middle of a text. It’s completely false, especially in Middle Eastern literature. Kenneth Bailey has pointed out multiple times How Chastaic structure (where you have a structure that is a mirror pattern Like ABCDCBA) is a major part of how one should look at and interpret all Middle Eastern literature and texts. You have to be a look on the lookout for that. That is not to say that’s always how it structured, but there are many hints that that is in heavy use in the book of revelation.
We, as the BRIDE of CHRIST are NOT MEANT TO SUFFER THE WRATH OF GOD.
The discussion of "Satan bound" (@29:00 mark) has these men speculating about what it means that "Satan is bound".
The Scriptures clearly tell us what this means, however.
Rev. 20:3 tells us what the binding of Satan entails: "so that he might not deceive the nations any longer, until the thousand years were ended. After that he must be released for a little while." (ESV).
But this is exactly what Satan is doing now: deceiving the nations through the Antichrist and the False prophet; and will continue to do so until the 2nd Advent.
While God is nevertheless Sovereign over Satan's activities, and always has been, it is clear from the text that during the Millennium Satan will not be deceiving anyone...until AFTER the 1,000 years.
And why will Satan not be deceiving anyone during the Millennium?
Because there will be no one on the earth to deceive. At the 2nd Advent (which is depicted in Rev. 19, and from which Rev. 20 chronologically follows...yes, I said "chronologically" follows, for my Amillennial friends) Christ's angels will destroy all the wicked who are living at the time; then, the dead in Christ will be resurrected with glorified bodies, and the living saints will be changed into their glorified bodies in an instant, and we will all be caught up together to go to heaven, where Christ Himself has been preparing "mansions" (or, "dwelling places") for His people.
Therefore, the 1,000 year Millennium of Christ ruling with His saints does NOT take place "on the earth," as Dispensational [Futurist] Premillennialism teaches, and as Historic Premillennialism teaches. The Millennial reign takes place in HEAVEN, while the earth is completely desolate, void of life (except for Satan and his [fallen] angels).
Only after the Millennium does Christ once again descend (this time all the way down to the earth) with his saints in the New/Heavenly Jerusalem; the wicked dead will be resurrected, and Satan will be "loosed" for his 1,000 year prison to deceive all the wicked once again. Then, they will attempt to attack the Heavenly city (which descended from heaven) and God will destroy them with fiery judgement.
Very simple, if one does not carry erroneous presuppositions to the prophetic texts.
Hope this helps.
Let me know if you have questions.
*Soli Deo Gloria*
"Clear from the text" LOL, yes, the reformers ofthe 1800's were the first to magically discern this; apparently it was not so clear until JN Darby came along to open everyone's eyes
Satan doesn't decieve anymore but to the believers that is because Christ resurrected. What would be the point of a thousand year reign after his second coming just to come back to earth?
@@jasonbourne5142 To fulfill the Scriptures, of course.
@@jasonbourne5142 You don't think Satan deceives believers? Just take a look at the state of the church... The New Testament constantly talks about the perils of Satan and his schemes. If he were bound for believers then it doesn't make any sense why the New Testament authors would warn about his plans in so many passages.
@@derserrs the millenium is now, we're a part of it, we just haven't gone to the heavenly part yet because we're still alive. The dead are already there. At the end of the millennium Satan will be used to test everyone prior to Christ second coming.
Hebrews 9:16 divides Old Testament from New Testament, this means New Testament starts with Matthew 28, everything before Matthew 28 is still Old Testament
...yep, Polycarp was a disciple of John and was premillenial and they did not believe in replacement theology which sneaks in notably with The Catholic church and Augustine.
Even THE APOSTLE PAUL THOUGHT THAT CHRIST’s RETURNING COULD HAVE OCCURRED IN PAULS time. JESUS RETURN IS IMMINENT…IT COULD HAPPEN…RIGHT NOW.
How come everyone ignores the Mid_Trib position? Paul says clearly in 2 Thessalonians that the rapture won't happen until the Abomination of Desolation and in 1 Corinthians 15 that it will be at the "Last Trump."
The word rapture doesn’t even exist in 2 Thess as far I can see, it sounds like a translation error.
@@KKKaTTT123 The word "harpazo" does. ( in 1 Thess.) It's the greek word for "catching away"
The premillennial representative was a historical progressive premilleniast (which is what I hold to). What you would call a post tribber. However, in this discussion only historical premillennialism (post trib) was disscussed. A mid trib or pre wrath position is actually a subcategory of post trib or historical premill. The other view which is classical premillennialism or dispensationalist is the pretrib view l. Either way, with each of these premill views, there was only one premill representative in this debate and he barely got to talk.
@@seansteckbeck4707 Thanks for your clarification Sean.
I don't think I agree with the idea of classifying historic premillennialism as post-trib though. I think post trib would be it own conclusion, since it denies any escape from the outpouring of God's wrath within Daniel's 70thw week. The church fathers like Irenaeus and Hippolytus seemed to indicate a time in which the church was hidden from that wrath, and Irenaeus uses the term to designate the church being raptured from this outpouring.
The reason they do not designate a 'mid-trib' position, is because the idea that Daniel's entire 70th week is called "the tribulation' is a scripturally inaccurate designation that Pre-70th week dispensationalists like to repeat in order to foster the idea that the whole 70th week constitutes God's wrath, rather than simply the second half, as both Daniel, the Gospels, Paul, and Revelation all agree.
That said, the only distinction between the Mid-Trib and Pre-Wrath position is how long after the midpoint (which is the Abomination of Desolation) before the Church is caught up to escape this wrath. The Mid-Trib (my position) says it is 'that night' (per Luke 17 coordinated with Mt 24) while the Pre-Wrath says right before a sudden outpouring of wrath at the end of the 70th week, making it closer to a post-trib position than a mid-trib.
I have a book and channel dedicated to the subject, which is why I parous these channels (if you are interested), but being strictly scriptural in usage of terminology is important to mending differences of opinion. Mt. 24 refers to a general (or persecution) happening until the Abomination of Desolation and a (an outpouring of wrath while the entire earth is made to worship the antichrist or die) during the second half. These are our linear bounds, and all that remains is what we are told to 'watch' for and when to 'look up' as our instructions of obedience. When it is brought to this simplicity, the answer becomes much more clear.
Revelation 20: Does your interpretation agree with all other scripture?
(Chronological or Recapitulation?) (Literal vs. Figurative?)
Based on the following scripture, will immortals and mortals both live on earth for 1,000 years after the Second Coming of Christ? Will there be renewed animal sacrifices in earthly Jerusalem for 1,000 years after the Second Coming of Christ? Will Christ conduct funeral services for mortals killed in accidents many years after His Second Coming? Graveyards needed?
Can the following questions be examined without ridicule, and condemnation, based on the New Covenant promised in Jeremiah 31:31-34, and found fulfilled in Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, and Hebrews 12:18-24?
Can the number 1,000 be used in a symbolic manner? Psalm 50:10
Does an angel with a key come from heaven and open the bottomless pit in Revelation 9:1-2? Why did the angel have to unlock the pit if it was not locked previously?
Who is the king of the angels in the bottomless pit found in Revelation 9:11?
Are some of the angels “bound” in some manner in Revelation 9:14?
If the beast comes up out of the pit in Revelation 11:7, where is the beast before then?
John sees “souls” at the beginning of Revelation chapter 20.
Are these the same “souls” found in Revelation 6:9-11?
Is the “first resurrection” in Revelation 20:5 the first bodily resurrection in the Book of Revelation? (Rev. 11:11) Are there two different types of resurrections in John chapter 5?
John 5:24 (Spiritual) ? Were you dead, and now you are alive?
John 5:27-30 Christ describes the bodily resurrection and “hour” of judgment of “all” the dead.
Who is the “strong man” who is bound in Matthew 12:26-29?
How is Satan “bound” in Revelation 20:3?
How many mortals are left alive on the planet at the end of Matthew 25:31-46?
Isaiah 65:17-25? Are people really dying in verse 20? Context, Context, Context…
The New Heavens and New Earth are found at the beginning of the passage, and the end of the curse is found at the end of the passage.
What happens if verse 20 begins with a negative statement? "There will be no more..."
Was Paul expecting Christ to return "in flaming fire", taking vengeance on those who do not know God in 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10? How would mortals survive this fire?
Does the fire come at the end of Revelation 20?
Did Paul expect both the living and the dead to be judged at the appearing of Christ, in 2 Timothy 4:1?
When is the judgment of the dead in Revelation 20? Is it the same judgment of the dead in Revelation 11:18?
What is the restitution of all things at the return of Christ in Acts 3:20-21?
Will Christ's sacrifice at Calvary also reverse the curse, at His return?
Does death die at the last trumpet in 1 Corinthians 15:50-55?
Why did Jesus correct the woman at the well when she said earthly Jerusalem was the place to worship? See John 4:20-24.
Why did Paul say the Jerusalem above is our “mother” in Galatians 4:24-31?
What is the inheritance of the Old Testament Saints in Hebrews 11:15-16?
Is the third temple found in 1 Peter 2:4-10? Is this temple just as real as a temple made of earthly stones?
What was Peter expecting on the day of the Lord when He comes as a thief in 2 Peter 3:10-13?
Do we find the judgment of both the living and the dead at the 7th trumpet, which is the last trumpet in the Bible, in Revelation 11:15-18? Why do most preachers ignore the time of the judgment of the dead, with reward for some, and destruction for others in Revelation 11:18? What does it prove about the chronology of the Book of Revelation?
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Is there a correlation between Revelation 20 and earlier passages in the Book of Revelation?
Is Revelation chapter 20 another example of “Recapitulation”?
It's hard not to seriously ponder 1948. and what do with "until the times of the gentiles be fulfilled"
Why is it called a mystery, because it wasn't mentioned in the Old Testament or during Christ Ministry,
The gospel is the gospel of the kingdom!
Jesus is going to return and set up the kingdom of God ON THE EARTH! God’s government ON THE EARTH! The Messiah died for his people! God resurrected the Messiah! The Messiah will resurrect his people! The destiny of the Messiah and his people is to be ON THE EARTH! The renewed restored earth! God also dwelling with them! Rev 21
Matt 24
14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be proclaimed throughout the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.
Jesus said the Father is the only true God!
John 17
3 And this is eternal life, that they know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent.
After Israel rejects the Holy Spirit, this is when Christ stops Paul on his way to Damascus, it says you will preach the mystery of the gospel of grace, The Mystery of the church, The Mystery of the rapture
I do think there's a distinction in the Kingdom of God and the Kingdom of Heaven.
The Kingdom of Heaven is the present world which was seized by earthly rulers as Christ described in the parable of the land leasers, the men in the Garden who figured they would kill the Son of the owner and take his inheritance. It is ruled by the powers and the principalities.
The Kingdom of God is the domain of God, all things, which he rules. Though the Kingdom of Heaven is subject to him, he HAS allowed or even placed them in ruling the world for a time until his return. We all agree that he WILL destroy his enemies, but presently they have not been.
It comes down to; Do we expect God will take back the world at once or over time? In one dramatic moment or a more nebulous (to our views) indeterminate period of time with potential setbacks along the way?
The apostles clearly expected the former at the transfiguration, but understood something different at the resurrection.
I didn’t like that there wasn’t a clear defense of the unique calling of the Jewish people in Romans 11. They only let the a mills and post mills talk. The premill guy barely got to talk. I would have loved to hear his view on Romans 11 and he wasn’t allowed to speak on it.
The view of the Jewish people’s eternal irrevocable calling wasn’t represented at all, only the flip side… unfair conversation.
What I am saying, brothers and sisters, is this: Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor can corruption inherit incorruption. 50 ¶ Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
51 Listen, I am telling you a mystery: We will not all fall asleep, but we will all be changed, 51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we will be changed. 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible body must be clothed with incorruptibility, and this mortal body must be clothed with immortality. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 When this corruptible body is clothed with incorruptibility, and this mortal body is clothed with immortality, then the saying that is written will take place: Death has been swallowed up in victory.
hahaha even in video recorded round tables, Doc still has his Diet Coke!
Minority view...for now 😉 #postmil
John the Baptist was not a part of the Body of Christ
#DatPostMil
Magneflood hydro magnetism
10:15 simplistic view is the best view because the bible was not written to Dr or scollers only but to the the common man = chronological would be the most logical IF we were already in the millenium or already passed we would have been obviously no debate and everyone would know it. But problem is people take bible in their own interpretation instead of reading it literal 2 Peter 1:20 KJV
20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
Oh really? What about the 666 mark which was hidden in the name meaning Cesar Nero? Was that clear? Or did it take studying ? What about learning hebraism or apocalyptic language? It does take studying bud so take a nap.
@@jasonbourne5142 I don’t think a Christian should have this attitude towards another Christian brother, the tone is very aggressive
@@jasonbourne5142 666 bible specify its only for those who know or understand = a mistery. I never said anytying about not studying I said what I said wont copy paste. Take a nap bud? lol no. what a non christian attitude to say such a thing
@@KKKaTTT123 non humble people usually go this way.
26:00
Show me where 1/3 or 1/4 of world already died? We not their yet
Look up the Black Plague. Somewhere between 50%-90% of Europe died in that pandemic.
@Jose Hernandez In 70AD. Remember that when the Bible mentions the world doesn’t mean the entire planet, it means Israel. Paul makes that distinction.
@@JeremiahBlasi Europe not the WORLD and that timeline was way over the 7 year tribulation so off by 2 reasons. SOmething as big as the GREAT trib woldent even be a matter of debate it would evident to all wihtout denial if u read all the things happening.
@@diegovalleperez3360 show me this proof of ur interpreation because paul was set to preach to the gentiles aka the hole world says him self . gospel wasent just for the jews after they denied Jesus SOmething as big as the GREAT trib woldent even be a matter of debate it would evident to all wihtout denial if u read all the things happening.
@royal priest Something has to be literal . You cant understand metaphor without a literal context. You think the mark of the beast isnt literal? You are lost
Uh, that would be a ... Square table.
Their is a day of the lord and the day of Christ why a difference?
Refining fire?
the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
Seeing then that all these things shall be DISSOLVED, ...the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth,
So far of taking these scriptures out of context and I'm not a scholar, it seems like are they are doing is misinterpreting all the scriptures especially revelation
All of them huh? How about you enlighten us.
@@jasonbourne5142 yes all of them, there are so many scriptures to prove Pre-trib
@@danielchambers6827 no disrespect but if believe that than you don't really know how to read bud.
@@jasonbourne5142 well know disrespect to you, but you are the one reading it wrong, and they are too.
NO ONE KNOWS THE DAY NOR THE HOUR.
This forum isn't a good format at coming to the correct interpretation of that is possible!
You know nothing
@@jasonbourne5142 Enlighten me mister know it all!
Matthew 24:36, Christ admits that only his father knows everything, then in chapter 28, it says Christ is given full knowledge of the Kingdom, then they wait to see if the nation of Israel, the Pharisees, and Sadducees, reject the Holy Spirit Steven,
Is it possible to be a Postmillennial without being a Calvinist?
Yes. Bethel church in redding is postmill
@@joshuatheo1419 unfortunate
Of course
Interesting question.
I have a similar question: Can one be Amill without being Calvinist? Or without being convinced of the Covenant Theology schema.
well you bap dont like covenant theology. Are you at least reformed in your theology? if you are then there is only one view point that makes sense. God doesnt need to set up shop so to speak if hes the one doing all the salivic work in a persons life. you do not need a 1000 years reign on earth to see whose going to choose GOD.
Only one Gospel:
The Gospel of Reconciliation.
Jesus Christ came into THEIR kingdom
to reconcile fallen angels unto Himself.
We are the fallen angels (ELOHIM) kept in DNA chains of darkness.
If you do not confess being a fallen angel in Lucifer's kingdom, then you are an unbeliever.
Unbeliever = those that claim to be made in the image of ELOHIM(gods).
REPENT FALLEN ANGELS.
You
Father YAHweh forgive us for "our" sin
2 Peter 3:10-13. Has anyone ever heard or witnessed a nuclear explosion? It sends fire into the heavens and incinerates everything on earth. During the Day of the Lord (7 year Tribulation of God's Wrath), assuredly there will be nuclear war on earth because of the rider on the Red Horse. This passage does not exactly describe the event in which God will create a New Heavens and a New Earth which takes place at the end of the Millennium. This describes a destructive event. That's something for mister Amillennial man to think about.
The so-called "problems" with premillennialism, see 10:33, have been solved ad nauseam in the literature.
So they all get it wrong. The pre-trib backer needs to watch "7 Pre-trib Problems and the Pre-wrath Rapture."
The other two either ignore the last two thousand years of history and/or allegorize or spiritualize scripture away.
Sad.
That sounds worse than bound 😂
It was disingenuous from the second spoken sentence. There are not only 3 views of eschatology. The claim of there being only 3 had me skipping this video immediately. Thanks, but no thanks.
He said, “The three MAJOR views…” there are variations of course, but most people throughout church history and modern day will fall into one of three categories. I, myself, have a very minority opinion and yet would only very technically fall into pre-mil. Dr. Akin himself stressed in his first opening statement that there were many varieties of even premillennialism. So… yeah
#datpostmil
Y’all just don’t seem to have a VERY BIG GOD. MY GOD IS OMNIPOTENT, OMNISCIENT AND OMNIPRESENT. MY GOD HAS NO LIMITATIONS…accept that he cannot SIN.
Your GOD seems pretty limited to me.
I WILL PRAY FOR YOU!
Im with Danny Akin. Pre millennial makes so much more sense by scripture.
We're glad this video helped in your thinking of Eschatology, Jerry. Make sure to subscribe for more great content like this and thanks for watching!
@@SEBTS already beat you to it! 😉
🤙😎🤙
There are at least 3 different Premillennial views, though.
While I too am Premillennial, I am not a Dispensational Futurist Premillennial, nor an Historic Premillennial.
The Heavenly Premillennial view fits with all of Scripture better than the former two.
@Indigator Veritatis wrote: "I think the problem with your view is that during the Millennium, there still is the influence of the world and the flesh, to some extent."
Nope, when Christ returns all the wicked living will be killed (cf. Mt. 13:24-30, 36-43; Rev. 14:14-16; Rev. 19:17-21). Then the dead "in Christ" will be resurrected to glorified bodies (1 Thes. 4:13-18), the living saints will be changed into glorified bodies (1 Cor. 15:51-55), and all the saints will be "caught up" to heaven (1 Thes. 4:13-18) to where Christ has been preparing a place for them (Jn. 14:1-3).
The Rapture is certainly a biblical teaching; however, it is not a temporally separate event than the 2nd Advent...they are the SAME EVENT.
The Millennium will consist of the saints with Christ in heaven, where the "books" will be opened and examined (cf. Dan. 7:10; Rev. 20:12).
The 1,000 year Millennium of Christ's reign with His saints will NOT be on the earth, but in heaven.
Satan will be "bound" by a chain of circumstances wherein he will not be able to "deceive the nations" (because they are all DEAD). Only AFTER the 1,000 years will the wicked be resurrected unto judgement.
Rev. 20:3 "...that he might not deceive the nations any longer, until the thousand years were ended. After that he must be released for a little while."
Rev. 20:6 "... Blessed and holy is the one who shares in the first resurrection! Over such the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and they will reign with him for a thousand years."
Rev. 20:7 "...when the thousand years are ended, Satan will be released from his prison 8 and will come out to deceive the nations that are at the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them for battle; their number is like the sand of the sea..."
Rev. 20:12-14 "...the dead were judged by what was written in the books, according to what they had done. 13 And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them, and they were judged, each one of them, according to what they had done. ..."
Again, a simple reading and study of the events that occur at the 2nd Advent of Christ will lead to the conclusion that the Millennial reign does NOT take place on the earth, but in heaven.
Satan will be "bound" on a desolate earth for 1,000 years, with no one to deceive...and he will be miserable.
Hope this helps.
Let me know if you have further questions.
*Soli Deo Gloria*
If we are in The Millennial now, where is Jesus and when did He return.
If the Millennium has already happened, then we already should have seen Christ reign - with a rod of iron - then the great rebellion at the end of the 1,000.
Both are sad errors.
The pathetic state of Christianity today. All 3 men contradict each other and none willing to offend with the true interpretation of Scripture.