Woolwich Reach: A Phantom Station on the DLR
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- Опубликовано: 12 мар 2024
- A never-built station on the Docklands Light Railway. What's the story, chums?
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Hands up if you hang around for the pun at the end. I always do, and I'm never disappointed.
Always, and I most often pause the video for a moment while I try to predict the line.
Me too, I even watch the adverts in full when a video is sponsored as there are some gems in them.
Cheers Jago, you are the witty remark to my video viewing.
Me. I am the viewer to his cinematography.
Guilty
I'm only half way through and I am already wetting my pants in anticipation.
"You are the ventilation shaft to my station"
Bloody hell, Jago... Steady on mate
It's the most realest ending ever 😮
There are ladies present!😂
I can confirm that my shaft has never been anywhere near Mr Hazzard's station.
Well not as far as I know anyway... It's not *technically* impossible.
@@maryapattersonThe more natural providers of ventilation shafts I would have thought.
Very Freudian!
“In October 2000, DLR Ltd stated that the Woolwich Reach station was removed from the proposal because of the great depth of the station, the cost of about £25m and the fact that the station would have only been about 500 metres from Woolwich Arsenal station”
From a very old website that’s somehow still live.
£25m is loose change today where railways involved. There are two stations in Kent that are closer, one can actually see one from the other down the track 400yds away. Driving or walking between is over a mile.
@@tonys1636 Yes. It's roughly the cost of the single platform station at Soham.
Which website is this?
RUclips doesn't really allow comments with links in them, so I reckon you'll have to find out by other means@@superlynx98
When it happens, it will be long staircase...
...like in 15 storey building...
I don't know why, but "you are the ventilation shaft to my station" sounds vaguely obscene for some reason!
😂😂😂😂😂
Only vaguely?
The pun is even worse when you consider the station first talked about was ARSEnal 😂😂😂
Nothing vague there. 😂
😂😂😂😂😂
O how I wish the land in the area had be owned by a Mr Willett to give us Willett Reach
Reminds me of a car dealership near me, Bob Jass Chevrolet. I've often wanted to call up and ask to speak to Bob's brother, Hugh.
Speaking of ventilation shafts, I love when systems hide infrastructure like ventilation shafts so they blend in with the surrounding environments. In Brooklyn in NYC, there's a building called 58 Joralemon Street and from the outside, it looks like a regular townhouse, and that's because it was originally built as a Greek Revival residence, the building was originally constructed in 1847 as a private residence and for about 60 years, people lived here. But that all changed in 1907 when it was purchased by the Interborough Rapid Transit Company. They gutted the interior, and converted the structure to the world’s only Greek Revival subway ventilator. The ventilator also serves as an emergency exit from the eastern end of the NYC Subway's Joralemon Street Tunnel, which carries the IRT Lexington Avenue Line between Bowling Green and Borough Hall! The Joralemon Street Tunnel was the first underwater subway tunnel connecting Manhattan and Brooklyn.
The one at Pimlico station on the Victoria line is a work of art. Look it up.
Vintage Jago - an obscure reference in a forgotten publication turned into a short but fascinating tale of what might have been, and what instead is. You are the breath of fresh air to my ventilation shaft...
Now that you've declared it a footnote in history, it'll probably open next year. Such is life ;-)
Theres a picture of my dad in the year 2000 edition of the handbook. He was a PSA, retired in 2005 and I'm a PSA too!
That building is my 'final push' marker for Woolwich Thamespath Parkrun!
I’ll have to do some ‘Parkrun tourism’ there next time I’m in London!
Somewhere in the boxes of books, I have some early DLR related stuff. Someday, I will unpack all those boxes.
You are the travelator for my wheeled suitcase of rail related minutae
I grew up in Woolwich, what a grim place it was in the 80s 😂. Thanks for the nostalgia.
The DLR handbook on the right depicts a Linke-Hoffman-Busch P86 car. For the opening of the Bank extension in the early 90s, these, along with the P89 units were sold to the light rail network in Essen, Germany because they didn't have a door on the front, which was required for tunnel operation in the UK.
While the DLR is actually a full metro (no level crossings or street running), but taking advantage of light rail tech for flexible route alignment, it was named light rail to distinguish it from the tube. The opposite goes for the Midland metro and Manchester metrolink, both of which are actually light rail networks.
Unlike the DLR, Essen's network is just a light rail network, where the vehicles do stop at underground stations in the busier parts of town, but then ascend a ramp to use the street level tram tracks in the less busy outer districts, as is common in most German cities of that size. Because of this, these units were fitted with drivers cabs, indicator lights, rear view mirrors and pantographs.
Until just a few years ago, some of them still had their DLR livery but I believe they've since all been repainted in Ruhrbahn yellow. Sadly, the P86 and P89 units there are due to be replaced by new CAF LRVs between 2024 and 2026.
Except it's not "light rail" but a "light railway" a term that has a long history in British rail culture. Now, P89 units might not have much to do with a tiny superannuated steam loco chuffing through the wilds of Devon but I like to think someone knew what they were doing when they chose the name.
I think TfL should buy back a P86 and a P89 vehicles from Essen, restore them and place them in a transport musuem as they're part of history
0:14 Jago 🤝 Geoff
Always ready when the merch drops
I agree, Geoff and Jago need to Collab, even if it's Jago doing the history bits and voiceover with Geoff the one exploring and talking on camera
@@UK.RoadsCyclingandTransportThey did have one collaboration, in a way. I can't remember who, but somebody else did a video on the history of the Tube Map. Jago played Harry Beck, and Geoff played Frank Pick.
@@SynchroScoreJay Foreman
Last time I traveled on the DLR I got my bag stuck in the train’s folding doors when visiting the Docklands Arena.
Man, I love this channel. I wouldn’t even consider myself a big ‘trains guy’ but these topics are so interesting
You are the opera to our Phantom.
Hi there,
Me and my dad both have a fascination with London transport. We both love your channel and its videos,
Keep up the good work!
Me have that too.
Great video as usual Jago.
One day I'll have to become a Friend of the London Transport Museum, now I'm retired.
Thanks to you lighting the touch paper of my interest in London's Transport history. 👍
Is that one of the old ferries at the end? It looks like it's been abandoned for many, many years. Looks like it's some sort of failed restaurant conversion or something
To add to a previous comment, from DLR Wiki Entry:
Extensions to London City Airport & Woolwich (2004-2009)
Route of Woolwich Arsenal extension.
An extension to London City Airport from the existing Beckton branch was explored in the mid-90s, at first via travelator from Royal Albert, and then in 1998 via a proposed lift-bridge over the dock with an intermediate station at West Silvertown.[45][46] The government initially supported this proposal, and in 1999 was developed to the route known today with a further extension to King George V. At this time, the further route to Woolwich Arsenal was developed with an intermediate station at Woolwich Reach, but was viewed as a longer term aspiration. The Woolwich Reach station (on the south bank of the Thames, at the site of the Marlborough Road ventilation and escape shaft), was descoped in 2000.
Interesting, its quite unusual that a proposal never becomes a proposal, Good job Jago!
I love seeing books/posters of future plans on the Tyne & Wear Metro. It's relatively "old" now and really needs expansion. There have been so many ideas and attempts and though some minor ones have happened, it could be massive.
They need to work on their pricing and service first though but I love seeing what could have been.
Thanks for the video, Jago. Just when you think there aren't anymore curiosities on the rail network, you turn up something like this. Excellent stuff 👏🏾 👌🏾 👍🏾
02:42 Surely to see what you could sea, sea sea ...?
I'll get my coat.
The history of things that never happened is a great niche!
I don't know if you have any holidays planned for this year, Jago, buy I have a recommendation for you if you do. The main train station in Plzeň, Czech Republic, is just finishing its renovation work and it's looking gorgeous. Definitely a place to visit, and the city itself is breathtaking!
Plus it's a great place to see trains you don't normally spot here, like the Škoda Vagonka, Škoda 69/73, and Siemens Eurorunner.
Where Pilsner beer originally came from, and I expect still brews some good ones!
@@markiangooleyyes, it's home to the Pilsner Urquell and Gambrinus breweries.
Wait, Skoda make trains?
Your videos are the much sought-after item to my collection.
Thank you for informing me about this building which, as I have been cycling past it for years wondering what it was, you have now answered my questions on the matter.....
When I saw the thumbnail image, I recognised it immediately. I cycle pass it regularly and passed it 3 times today. I never knew what the purpose of the building was, or even thought about it!
If your other videos are called "Tales from the Tube", perhaps videos like this should be called "Dialogues from the DLR".
Ooh! I like this, very Jago- & Plato-esque! 😊
Yes, but they're monologues. Maybe Diatribes from the DLR? Or Dissertations?
Orations from the Overground
Monologues from the main line, disquisitions from the DLR, words from the Woolwich ferry...
i used to have the same 2000s handbook when i was a kid!! it was so long ago i didnt even think it was real as i got older.
The dlr always fascinates me, if only it could come to dartford!
And rainham, upminster, hornchurch, romford, collier row, grange hill, through to ongar, taking over the Liberty, Central, and other lines.
Why would anything/anyone want to go to Dartford?
Given what Jago said about the DLR's superior gradient handling, you could probably bolt it to the side of the Dartford Crossing.....
@@paulhaynes8045 good point
We see the short break has done you a world of good! Cheers!
There is something very pleasant in waking up and finding that Mr. Hazzard has posted a new video. When NZ's summer time ends in a couple of weeks, I should be waking at the same time as the videos get posted. Mind you, here in Waikikkamukau in the winterless north, it's always summer.
But to the substance, a proposed station is not built because there is insufficient demand then an adjacent station rapidly becomes overwhelmed. Now where have I heard that before? Planners don't understand that there always is less demand Before a station is built than there is After. Did they go to the ventilation shaft and count the disappointed people standing round waiting for a train that cannot arrive?
Waikikamukau - over the hill from Bulls, innit?
@@msg5507Many hills. I live in Northland. 😁
@@telhudson863when the horse with that name won the Melbourne Cup we were told this was where it was, are you telling me Kiwis lie? :0
@@msg5507Just say the name out loud. 😇 Traditionally it is midway between the real town 'Bulls' and the fictional town 'Hit'. Despite being imaginary, Waikikkamukau has its own Wikipedia page.
This was super interesting and the first time the vent shaft has been mentioned with regards to a station. When the DLR runs between Woolwich and King George V I do see door ways in the tunnel and wondered which, if any, lead up to the vent.
We walk past that ventilation shaft so many times and I always wondered why it was so big. It makes sense now.
Also there are so many people who walk pass it on their way into Woolwich it would make complete sense to have another station there as well.
I think your right, that building looked fairly large and you can see where canopies and larger doors would have gone
it definitely isn't trying to be subtle, as ventilation shafts go!
Speculative schemes in London, who'd have thought it.
Woolwich reach south could be the station as Woolwich reach north is the flats.
An update on the Coventry very light rail system is due really jay go go go.
Thanks for a Wednesday shortie.
As a Coventrian, my understanding of the Very Light Rail system is that its construction is connected to HS2's.
might i ask what is Very Light Rail plus may it been better to conect to your west Midlands "metro" tram
@@sglenny001 In terms of VLR for Coventry, its very much an intra-city project. The primary project is from point A within the city (possibly the train station) to point B, University of Warwick main campus at the far edge of the city - served only by bus.
The HS2 idea was part of a proposal to link Birmingham Interchange with Birmingham International and Birmingham Airport BHX. Whilst this may have been evaluated, as well as Parry PeopleMover, its most likely that a cable traction system similar to Lutons might be installed as such a system already exists between Birmingham International and BHX.
Its much cheaper and requires less maintenance given what it has to cover. VLR should not just be limited to Coventry though. I would like to see the old link between Maldon and Witham opened up again. In theory, VLR could cheap and easy to use for this line and could even dock at platform 1 at Witham station with a few adjustments. In fact, I can see this unit taking over on the Stourbridge Junction to Stourbridge Town line.
It would be the craziest idea. I believe that the MRT in Singapore will build the basic structure of a station during the construction phase of lines & extension but not fully finish and open the station until there is sufficient development & demand in the station’s surrounds
I always wondered what happen to the second woolwich DLR Station. Woolwich Reach good work mate x
More of these snippets if possible, please, Jago.
Woolwich Reach would have been unnecessary, but the London City/Woolwich branch of the DLR is very useful. The underused DLR branch is the Beckton one, which is pretty empty once it passes ExCel, and even much of that traffic has been taken by the Elizabeth Line. You can see why most of the proposed extensions to the DLR are off that branch,
It takes ages to grind its way around - maybe it should find a way of routing up High Street South - but then there is only the cemetary and some really dodgy (in build style) flats - perhaps they warrent changing for another high rise ?
agreed. Stations like that sat snug against the Thames just need a lot more footfall and/or line connectors to make them worthwhile. I guess the only use would be it's a short[er] walk to the ferry station?
And yes, that Beckton line almost seems redundant now Eliz is in place. ExCel is actually better served by it than by DLR, as it gets the conference/expo attendees from the terminus stations much quicker
@@Dekedence would be better if the DLR fares became the same as buses and included in the 1hr hopper fare
Hi Jago, big fan of the channel, I do watch a lot of your videos and this is the first one I have commented on. I love this video, hopefully Woolwich Reach will not just be consigned to a book from the year 2000. I imagine in a parallel universe there is a Woolwich Reach dlr station and the Elizabeth line does not stop at Woolwich. Please keep making these videos about these little known things on the underground, I will certainly be watching them!
Hey, great name. You know Jago done a video a while back on 'Spilt Milk'; something to do with a bar/restaurant at Kings Cross and/or the Metropolitan Line.
The map also shows North Woolwich, is the old name for King George V?
I think that's what his recent video on George V station said so yes.
Part of the DLR I haven’t visited - I must take a look at this green spaceship!
Another belter!
I live in the Royal Arsenal. I have always wondered what that round building next to the river was for.
I'm curious about the vessel @4:32, is it a former ferry, did it operate with all those greenhouses installed, or are they a later addition? Thanks, in advance, for any answers.
Brilliant JH 😊
Last week I was return from the Excel centre on the Eliz/Purple/Cross line, and was very suprised to find the train from Woolrich A to be veyry busy at 3pm. Now I know why.
It’s great that Woolwich has its extension but when will Dustsneeze and Bugbite get their much needed extensions?
In retrospect, it would have been a very popular station with the Arsenal development on one side of it and West Thamesmead on the other.
Does the Docklands Light Railway Handbook give you instructions on how to 'Drive' the train when sitting at the front seat?😆
Thanks
And thank you!
Jago collects old editions of the Docklands Light Railway handbook? My date with him is cancelled! I wonder what Charles Yerkes is doing this evening!
If you go out with that Yerkes fellow, just remember to count your fingers after you have shaken hands with him.......🙂
@@Pesmog Thanks for the advice!
🕵🏻♂️🚂"You are The Station to my Imagination"💭🚂📖
I have a book from the early 90s on the Chiltern Line. It briefly discusses the then-current Crossrail proposal. Interesting to see how the plan matured over the next 15 or so years, dropping the Aylesbury branch and adding Heathrow and Abbey Wood
What is that mad boat at the end - 4 min 40 secs? Looks like a floating version of the "Silent Runnings" Spaeship but on its way to a scrapyard!
Interesting to show possible future stations and not only in use stations and disused stations.
I was hoping for "You are the Woolwich to my arsenal"
I've stayed a few times in an AirBnb in those apartment blocks you show several times (3:40 for example). It's a pretty long walk to the Elizabeth Line station and even longer to Woolwich Arsenal - especially with a suitcase. It's very selfish of me, but yes please! A station there would be nice, especially for airport access.
Not many people know this but Woolwich Arsenal station used to be called Woolwich Gillespie Road.
That's not actually true, I'm afraid.
The former Gillespie Road station was in north London between Kings Cross and Finsbury Park. It was renamed Arsenal Station (on the Piccadilly Line) in 1932 when the football team of that name moved there from their previous home in Woolwich SE18. I seem to remember that the name is still visible on the platforms.
Mr Hazzard or may I call you jago. In Jan 2024 I moved to Thames-side Studios. Woolwich. I am amazed at the number potential ways I can get here from my domicile in Willesden Green. Said journey might be a topic for a video as it includes every method of London tansport including cable car & boat. This video would have added yet another!
Thanks Jago. Are we not sure that green thingy isn't a UFO with a failed cloaking device ?
Good as ever Jago🙂🚂🚂🚂
I have that same 2000 edition of the DLR guide, and i'd never registered the proposed "extra" station!
I have some photos from Essen of the old DLR vehicles…
seeing the thumbnail, I thought I recognised that structure but couldn't picture where it was until you showed it in situ. Funny how I've cycled past that so many times and barely thought about what it was.
There’s a similar building by the river in Rotherhithe Street that was almost a Jubilee Line Station.
A ventilation shaft to your phantom station :-)
There's also the flat bits of the tunnel into Bank, to replace Tower Gateway if they ever wanted to close it
Hmmmmm, if you travel on a service from STI (which still has yet to see a train to anywhere more exotic than Cyprus)... you'll pause briefly in the tunnel on the way to Woolwich. "Oh, we're just outside the station" you'd think. But it's quite a trek from there to the platforms, so this probably is where the possible station would be.
Interesting. Woolwich Arsenal station is only a few minutes' walk from the river so I guess there would be little demand for another DLR station between the two. Interesting to see that it was once planned though!
Watchesd this just as I passed Woolwich arsenal and Woolwich stations
I wonder where the DLR will finally end up..Dartford? Basildon? Southend? Colchester? Ipswich? We need to fast forward to 2045 and see...Another good un, Jago!
Well I guess that Woolwich station is merely like the Old Bull and Bush station; only a plan on paper.
If Woolwich Arsenal was overcrowded, Woolwich Reach would have ended up having everyone missing several full trains. Nobody would be getting off after one stop, so it would only help a handful of people entering Woolwich, who wanted to get off the train one stop earlier.
Jago, thank as always for the great video. I have a question. Right at the end, you zoomed in on a ship on the Thames that looked dilapidated but very interesting. Can you tell me what ship that is? Maybe we can look forward to a video about it at some stage????
Now I never heard of this station!
I wish I was a London transport planner back then. Bus and train enthusiasts would be so much happier today, especially those in SE London.
A video on Queen's Park would be appreciated when you are able.
Hi Jago, first time commenter, long time viewer.
4:35 - what is that?! It looks a bit like the abandoned McDonalds barge from Canada… just wondered if you (or anyone for that matter) knew?
Keep up the great work 😁
Another informative and educational video are!
Just started the video, but that thumbnail image looks like like a 80s era planetarium.
They're still different books so it's not weird... hoarder tendencies acknowledged😅. In the planning stage they decided on a distinctive spaceship😂.
Not sure I want to be the ventilation shaft to your station! 😮
JAGO: My model railroad/railway curiosity wonders if you have ever heard of someone with a perverse need model the Docklands Light Rail? (those engineering parameters you mention would equally apply to a scale model, provided you could reproduce rolling stock)
Perhaps you could take a ride on the DLR between Woolwich Arsenal and King George V stations and see if the line has provisions for a future station in that area of the tunnel.
Jago Hazzard and Seinfeld..
The only 2 people on Earth that can make a show about nothing and have it be totally entertaining.
What on earth was that greenhouse ship on the Thames at the end of the video? I've never seen anything like that before.
A lot of people have asked that question - I think I should do a video about it, because I don’t know either.
@@JagoHazzard I got confused. I thought initially it was the famed bubblelator which the waterways authority use to oxygenate the river when summertime algae leads to stagnation. However, that's a smaller, leaner vessel.
"Writing footnotes in history since 2019"
Can you make a vid on that strange non roundabout above Cyprus station? Always perplexed me
Very enjoyable Jago, interesting that aircraft movements at London City are increasing airline's and corporate jets as such. Which will need more staff. I.E from a local area and the handling of passengers?. Will it reach.. thumbs up.
I've mentioned before how I think Woolwich Arsenal station is in the wrong place/faced the wrong direction, one wonders if they did build the extension to Thamesmead from this branch as was originally planned, could the existing station close to be replaced by this one aimed in the 'correct' alignment??
Also my attention is drawn to the vessel at 04:37, why does it look vaguely familiar??
A great video. Id actually wondered what that building was. I actually live in the modern apartment building in this video. I wonder if its cheaper to turn this into a station than add a second entrance to the already over capacity Woolwich EL
One imagines that Woolwich Arsenal station is constantly having its sign vandalized.
I'm much worse than you, I collect old Tube and London bus maps, but they're free. 😁
"...ventilation shaft to my station"
which relegates me, as a mere subscriber, to being...a molecule of air, I guess...sigh